killing me how zenos and xenos are pure opposites, one being bald with a beard and the other with long flowing hair without even a small piece of facial hair
This scene really had me thinking: Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Yotsuyu, Nidhogg, and others have done horrible things to innocent people, yet they're so beloved by the FFXIV community. And it boils down to their motives and reasons why they did what they did. Zenos, imo, basically challenges this: why does it matter if his or their motive was approved by the audience or not? What if their stories changed and he had better motivations than they did? They're all still killers of innocent people. After all, Zenos DID topple the empire. That was something everyone wanted, regardless if he did it "the right way."
well killing in self defense vs murder is still taking a life. Deontologically speaking its equally morally bad. but deontology is fuckin stupid. we'll do things for reasons and when we boil everything down to quantized parts to explain moral systems which are constructs we end up with untenable and unsupported beliefs. since theres no objective moral standard in the universe however we can only function as social beings through social constructs. Zenos is right that we make it all up but he's wrong in the way he chooses to act as a result of the knowledge if we compare him to other characters and ourselves. Alisae is right, he is alone utterly at this point and deserves it and his goal being one he can never achieve through his own belief system. he's cursed
@@156892 They're the opposite responses to existentialistic nihilism. Depression and hedonism. Meteion: Life doesn't matter. There's no point in it all, no reason to live. So life should cease. Zenos: Life doesn't matter. There's no point in it all, no reason to live. So I will make my own reason to live. Smarter dudes have written more on it, but that's the boilerplate of it all.
Zenos is right at the edge of awful for many players because of his reason for being a villain, but the writer brings him back home with the fucking fact spitting moments like in this scene when he talks to them.
I've always felt that there's a bit of a misunderstanding when it comes to Zenos, it's not that he is a shallow character, it's that he is a deep character who happens to have shallow motivations. There is a distinct difference there in my opinion and it's why I've always found him to be such a compelling presence. This scene in EW was a surprise to some, but to me I just felt like it was a confirmation of the kind of individual Zenos has always been. He almost at times feels like another player who's stuck in the MSQ along side you and the MSQ keeps getting in the way of his own gameplay. It's really facinating.
Yes. Zenos as a character and as a force of nature is a very simple and straight-forward answer to a world he considers to be full of pointless minutiae, distractions and lies. A fuck you to everything trying to tell you what to do with your life, to gods and fate equally. He's spent his entire life looking for the answer, and the moment he met you he finally had an answer he was okay with. He reduced everything to a goal that was not just achievable but seemingly inevitable.The simplicity of his goals is *because* of his inner complexity and intelligence.
I won't lie..seeing you go through the MSQ is really nice to watch man. Re-watching all these cutescenes made me realize how much I love playing FFXIV. I'm not a guy that likes to watch streamers, but you made it fun for me to do so! You are one of the few reasonable streamers out there. 100/100 GIGACHAD
The thing I like about this scene is that Zenos' response is the perfect thing to say to just what Jullus is; a proud imperial soldier. A member of the army that swept across the three great continents, caused countless atrocities and sufferings, all for their "greater good/cause." Like, Jullus, as a proud member of the army who even at this point still talks of the Pride of Garlemald, has implicitly condoned all the suffering that Garlean legions have wrought across the world as justified because it was for their glorious cause. The 1st legion's conflict with the 3rd, the actual civil war that tore Garlemald apart before Zenos and Fandaniel erected the towers, was something he engaged in alongside Quintus, willingly killing his own people for their cause. And he would ask Zenos why he was willing to kill his own people when Jullus had done himself so not so long ago. He would ask Zenos why he would harm so many innocents when the army Jullus served did the same to so many others. "You would ask me why." Zenos tells a soldier who would've happily condoned all he did if it had happened to someone else.
That's what Zenos is, he just wants the thrill of battle...that's all he is as a Villain just like Garland from FFI. Now that i think about it, both of them are almost the same.
The irony of Xenosys calling Zenos shallow is not lost on me. Zenos' reasons for his actions are the same that Xenos has for playing the game: the thrill of it, and not caring about anything outside of it. Hence why he (Xenos) has been clueless about the story for nearly a decade, but can tell you the intricate details of almost any encounter and perform as the best tank in the entire WOLRD. Does that mean that Xenos' reasons for playing 14 are shallow? Zenos is Xenos if he were an NPC. But with hair and no beard.
I agree that Zenos is a pretty shallow villain with dumb motivations and reasons for doing what he does, but honestly there's something cathartic about a villain with no real redeeming qualities. The story doesn't try to make you sympathize with him or understand why he's doing what he does or "relate" to him: Its understood that he's a selfish, evil maniac who is pretty much irredeemable. Even his one moment of "redemption" later is done purely out of his own selfish desires. So many villains these days try to make you feel bad for them, understand their perspective or make you think that they are "the Hero of their own story", but Zenos is just freakin crazy and evil and I kinda like having villains like that every now and then, even if they're not all that deep.
I'll never understand all the "based Alisae" stuff. Zenos doesn't give two shits, he just wants to fight the strong and live near death to feel something. Anything he does is to that end, he'd never want to turn a new leaf or anything. It's his reason for living, and only his, everyone else has to find their own reason, he's the antithesis to Hermes. Alisae just comes off as stupid and wonders if he'll even remember what she said later, so even she thinks it was pointless to say. Even what he does at the end of Endwalker, we don't fight him as a "thank you" for helping, we barely seem to like that he's there to help, we just sort of have to get rid of him cause there's no way he's coming back on the ship with us. He just forced our hand after the threat was dealt with, that's all.
Well, he didn't really force our hand. More like the game did. He states he'd let us walk away if we wish to do so. Honestly, despite how shallow he seems to be, I still think he's a good villain overall. As you said, he's basically the antithesis to the WoL and fighting to the death is the only thing that makes him feel anything.
Well you have to give credit where its due, since Alisaie gives Zenos another perspective. We as WoL only focus on the threat to the world, whereas Zenos wants a duel with us. If Zenos wants his duel so much, he should open his eyes to see why WoL would go save the world instead of fighting him, and he did. Alisaie’s words moved him enough to have him think from our perspective, to travel to Old Sharlayan, struck a bargain with Krile (whom he held captive and copied the echo from) and literally flew to the end of space from Eitherys. Regardless of how WoL felt, Zenos helped us fight Endsinger, and that is why WoL would grant him the battle he craves.
killing me how zenos and xenos are pure opposites, one being bald with a beard and the other with long flowing hair without even a small piece of facial hair
But both seeking out ever mightier foes ;)
Zeno's reply is 100% the answer to Hermes' question
This scene really had me thinking: Emet-Selch, Elidibus, Yotsuyu, Nidhogg, and others have done horrible things to innocent people, yet they're so beloved by the FFXIV community. And it boils down to their motives and reasons why they did what they did. Zenos, imo, basically challenges this: why does it matter if his or their motive was approved by the audience or not? What if their stories changed and he had better motivations than they did? They're all still killers of innocent people. After all, Zenos DID topple the empire. That was something everyone wanted, regardless if he did it "the right way."
well killing in self defense vs murder is still taking a life. Deontologically speaking its equally morally bad. but deontology is fuckin stupid. we'll do things for reasons and when we boil everything down to quantized parts to explain moral systems which are constructs we end up with untenable and unsupported beliefs. since theres no objective moral standard in the universe however we can only function as social beings through social constructs. Zenos is right that we make it all up but he's wrong in the way he chooses to act as a result of the knowledge if we compare him to other characters and ourselves. Alisae is right, he is alone utterly at this point and deserves it and his goal being one he can never achieve through his own belief system. he's cursed
I see Zenos as the antithesis to Meteion
@@156892 They're the opposite responses to existentialistic nihilism. Depression and hedonism.
Meteion: Life doesn't matter. There's no point in it all, no reason to live. So life should cease.
Zenos: Life doesn't matter. There's no point in it all, no reason to live. So I will make my own reason to live.
Smarter dudes have written more on it, but that's the boilerplate of it all.
Everyone says "Fuck Zenos" until he starts spittin facts
And Alisae reminds those people it's STILL "Fuck Zenos".
I LOVE his response to Julius. It's one of my favorite Zenos bits in the whole game
I don't understand why so many people hate Zenos so much, ever since he first appeared Zenos has been one of my favorites.
Zenos is right at the edge of awful for many players because of his reason for being a villain, but the writer brings him back home with the fucking fact spitting moments like in this scene when he talks to them.
he may be "shallow" but he's easily one of my favorites.
Personally i think hes a very deep villain, just portrayed in a shallow way
@@ioverslept. thats why i put shallow in quotes.
I've always felt that there's a bit of a misunderstanding when it comes to Zenos, it's not that he is a shallow character, it's that he is a deep character who happens to have shallow motivations. There is a distinct difference there in my opinion and it's why I've always found him to be such a compelling presence.
This scene in EW was a surprise to some, but to me I just felt like it was a confirmation of the kind of individual Zenos has always been. He almost at times feels like another player who's stuck in the MSQ along side you and the MSQ keeps getting in the way of his own gameplay. It's really facinating.
This is really well said
Yes. Zenos as a character and as a force of nature is a very simple and straight-forward answer to a world he considers to be full of pointless minutiae, distractions and lies. A fuck you to everything trying to tell you what to do with your life, to gods and fate equally. He's spent his entire life looking for the answer, and the moment he met you he finally had an answer he was okay with. He reduced everything to a goal that was not just achievable but seemingly inevitable.The simplicity of his goals is *because* of his inner complexity and intelligence.
@@_Uptilt That's a really good way to break it down
I won't lie..seeing you go through the MSQ is really nice to watch man. Re-watching all these cutescenes made me realize how much I love playing FFXIV. I'm not a guy that likes to watch streamers, but you made it fun for me to do so! You are one of the few reasonable streamers out there. 100/100 GIGACHAD
The thing I like about this scene is that Zenos' response is the perfect thing to say to just what Jullus is; a proud imperial soldier. A member of the army that swept across the three great continents, caused countless atrocities and sufferings, all for their "greater good/cause." Like, Jullus, as a proud member of the army who even at this point still talks of the Pride of Garlemald, has implicitly condoned all the suffering that Garlean legions have wrought across the world as justified because it was for their glorious cause. The 1st legion's conflict with the 3rd, the actual civil war that tore Garlemald apart before Zenos and Fandaniel erected the towers, was something he engaged in alongside Quintus, willingly killing his own people for their cause.
And he would ask Zenos why he was willing to kill his own people when Jullus had done himself so not so long ago. He would ask Zenos why he would harm so many innocents when the army Jullus served did the same to so many others. "You would ask me why." Zenos tells a soldier who would've happily condoned all he did if it had happened to someone else.
The raw irony that Zenos had the answer Hermes and Meteion were looking for
Zenos spitting facts. So many people fall prey to what he described, without even realizing, until they are completely consumed by their ideals.
Estinien: He'll be after your seat on the Forum next.
Fourchenault: O_O
Still cracks me up.
SAME DUDE! that was brilliant, short and sweet burn, mic drop and walk away . CHADSTINIEN
Man this scene threw me the first time. I was sure they were going for some sort of "damn it boy, how dare you make me feel feelings!" kind of moment.
I think FF has enough complicated villains, having a villain who is just strong and wants to fight you is A-OK in my book.
That's what Zenos is, he just wants the thrill of battle...that's all he is as a Villain just like Garland from FFI.
Now that i think about it, both of them are almost the same.
The irony of Xenosys calling Zenos shallow is not lost on me. Zenos' reasons for his actions are the same that Xenos has for playing the game: the thrill of it, and not caring about anything outside of it. Hence why he (Xenos) has been clueless about the story for nearly a decade, but can tell you the intricate details of almost any encounter and perform as the best tank in the entire WOLRD.
Does that mean that Xenos' reasons for playing 14 are shallow?
Zenos is Xenos if he were an NPC. But with hair and no beard.
Strummer caring about the story is the best thing that has ever happened. This is hype af.
is there ANY way to get the vods? I really enjoy him playing it and i would want to watch it fully
4:22
That timing lmao
Alphinaud asking why the ex crown prince of Garlemald is in Garlemald. 😂
Is Zenos a Khorne devotee or a Slaanesh devotee?
Or is he more like Archaon? Take it all, then give the gods nothing.
Making me want to new game plus on my main
I agree that Zenos is a pretty shallow villain with dumb motivations and reasons for doing what he does, but honestly there's something cathartic about a villain with no real redeeming qualities. The story doesn't try to make you sympathize with him or understand why he's doing what he does or "relate" to him: Its understood that he's a selfish, evil maniac who is pretty much irredeemable. Even his one moment of "redemption" later is done purely out of his own selfish desires.
So many villains these days try to make you feel bad for them, understand their perspective or make you think that they are "the Hero of their own story", but Zenos is just freakin crazy and evil and I kinda like having villains like that every now and then, even if they're not all that deep.
What does giga chad mean ?
? did he skip msq this whole time?
I'll never understand all the "based Alisae" stuff. Zenos doesn't give two shits, he just wants to fight the strong and live near death to feel something. Anything he does is to that end, he'd never want to turn a new leaf or anything. It's his reason for living, and only his, everyone else has to find their own reason, he's the antithesis to Hermes. Alisae just comes off as stupid and wonders if he'll even remember what she said later, so even she thinks it was pointless to say. Even what he does at the end of Endwalker, we don't fight him as a "thank you" for helping, we barely seem to like that he's there to help, we just sort of have to get rid of him cause there's no way he's coming back on the ship with us. He just forced our hand after the threat was dealt with, that's all.
Well, he didn't really force our hand. More like the game did. He states he'd let us walk away if we wish to do so. Honestly, despite how shallow he seems to be, I still think he's a good villain overall. As you said, he's basically the antithesis to the WoL and fighting to the death is the only thing that makes him feel anything.
Well you have to give credit where its due, since Alisaie gives Zenos another perspective. We as WoL only focus on the threat to the world, whereas Zenos wants a duel with us. If Zenos wants his duel so much, he should open his eyes to see why WoL would go save the world instead of fighting him, and he did. Alisaie’s words moved him enough to have him think from our perspective, to travel to Old Sharlayan, struck a bargain with Krile (whom he held captive and copied the echo from) and literally flew to the end of space from Eitherys. Regardless of how WoL felt, Zenos helped us fight Endsinger, and that is why WoL would grant him the battle he craves.