Both sides of my family are carpatho rusyn moving to northeast pa to work in the anthracite coal mines in the late 1800s. My grandfather would tell me a story about his grandfather ,so my great x2 grandfather , about how he would cross over the creek in a makeshift raft to steal firewood and such from the rich Jewish guy on the other side and how one time the raft flipped in winter and he nearly drowned/froze to death.
My grandparents were from Ungvar and immigrated in the 1880's to the U.S. through Ellis Island. My grandfather's surname was Bigary. They settled in the Scranton, Pa. area.
I did! I'll be doing another one on Pre 1867 Austria-Hungary formation as well (When Subcarpathia was part of Transylvania). Thanks for watching as always M. P.
I have a suggestion Lemko for a new video. Could you do one on why Rusyns joined Czechoslovakia? I read somewhere that this wasn't really there first choice. If I remember correctly they wanted to join Russia or be independent which is a lot different from the way things played out. Just a suggestion! Loved this video a lot.
I will certainly add it to the list. I would also reccommend the Timo Foundation and their talk which partially focused on this as well. th-cam.com/video/nvryHHw61aw/w-d-xo.html
Rusyns joined the hungarians freedom fight led by Francis II Rákóczi. Rákóczi called them the most faithful people (gens fidelissima) in recognition of their heroism.
LWH, I still watched the video before but this time I got a notification. Don't know if it helps you to know at all.
4 ปีที่แล้ว
I can't remember well where but I used to read a reference about late XIXth Century Zemplén county describing it as having a poor Hungarian part (the South), a moderately poor but decent part (the middle, or the Slovakian one) and a Ruthenian part that was literally referenced as being "bestially poor" ("állatiasan szegény" for the Hungarian readers). I always recall this when learning about Zemplén. Don't get it wrong, it can't be translated well to English, it was not intended to do degrade the Rusyns living there, it just tried to make the reader better perceive what the general conditions among which the mountaineers in this very remote region had been living. The Kingom of Hungary had been a predominantly agrarian, feudal country so no surprise these remote mountain areas provided very little prospect for any prosperity for those who had lived there. So, centuries without your own government or meaningful representation, on the borderlands of empires - and in "bestial" poverty. Somewhat odd but this may have been the explanation of why this small ethnic group could survive there as a distinct ethnic group. Literally no one else wanted to live there. :)
You must be careful with term "Subcarpathian Rus". I responded to you on Slovak reddit as well. Term is used for political entity that lasted from 1919/1920 to 1938/1939 and was established on major part of Bereg, Marmaros, Ugocsa, and Bereg counties. If you speak about Austria-Hungary you can only speak about individual counties. Small exception would be Adolf Dobriansky and his effort to create Ruthenian/Rusin province which he could not fullfill due to resistance from hungarian parliament. Anyway, if you would like to discuss this I would gladly talk about this. I am currently studying PhD. and my thesis is Ruthenian political elite and their fight for autonomy of Subcarpathian Rus in Czechoslovakia. I also think I have some ancestors coming from Rusins so there is a little personal motivation as well.
Sure there is no "Subcarpathian Rus'" as in a single entity in Austria-Hungary, as was stated in the video. Of course we can also define Subcarpathia Rus' or Podkarpatska Rus' purely as what is now Zakarpattia Oblast in Ukraine during the time of the first Czechoslovak republic. From a western context (Rusyn diaspora) some of us use Subcarpathian Rus' as a cultural term as well to describe all of the lands south of Carpathians that Rusyns inhabited, or usually just Carpathian Rus to describe the entire area to include Lemkovyna. The point of this video, of which I say at the end is that during its time in Hungary there was no divide between Rusyns in Presov Region or Rusyns in Transcarpathia. I am reffering to a cultural area where Rusyns lived, think "only being able to talk about individual counties" is too rigid if we are talking about a legit Ethno-lingusitic area. Using Carpathian Ruthenia could perhaps be a better option, but I stand by my use of it. Here is what I mean as an example (Carpathian Rus' picture): www.britannica.com/topic/Rusyn-people While perhaps not exactly "correct" in a scholary context, though Professor Magosci refers to the entire area as Carpathian Rus' as well, this is how we talk about the region. It is akin to for example how Kurds describe the areas they live in as Kurdistan even though some of these areas they have no autonomy.
@@lemkowithhistory Ah yes, there are little nuances in which I disagree with Magocsi opinions. But hey, it might be just my scholarly point of view. Anyway, did your family retain rusin language? Part of my family in US speaks Slovak, but most of them do not which is shame. Also, Magocsi do organize (or take part in orgnazing) summer school of Rusyn language here in Prešov. Have been in central europe before?
@@miso689 My great grandfather knew it, my grandparents know it somewhat, but my father and I knew nothing of the language. I've never been to Central Europe before unfortunately. I'm actually going to the Prešov Rusyn Studium next summer, should be a fun time! Can't wait to learn more from Magosci and others + exploring Slovakia.
@@lemkowithhistory Sad to hear that you could not retaind language. Nevertheless there is still opportunity to do so. I am sure it might be quite shock to visit (central) Europe as american rediscovering its own heritage. Prešov used to be much more beautiful town than it is now. Some people actually called it pearl of upper hungary. World wars and communist era took its toll on it but there is still something to enjoy. Hopefully you will enjoy your stay.
Smet, if I'm not mistaken there is no real official tally of Poles in the Kingdom of Hungary. As these people were counted as Slovaks. If you find a good source I'm more than willing to put it into the description.
@@smetjings2663 Gorals are not Polish. Many gorals identify as Slovaks. There is no and never was a Polish majority in Slovakia. FUN FACT: The polish government after ww1 claimed Orava and Spiš as theirs because of the goral population. As you might expect only the Polish liked this and Gorals rather stayed in Czechoslovakia. This can be seen as the first moment of Polish imperialism. I hate it when Poles say Gorals are Polish when Gorals are both Slovaks and Polish. Each category on the respective side of the border.
@Lokalu Kaldorei Hey there, if you have matched up the ages of when your g-grandparents were born and what was on the Ellis Island records, then I would say it is a high chance of being accurate. Rusyns and Poles are two seperate ethnicities. Poles are West Slavs (speak a language closer to Czechs and Slovaks), while Rusyns are East Slavs (our language is closer to Ukrainian, somewhat Russian as well). What Smet Jings is reffering to is another Carpathian ethnicity called the Gorals, who for many either identify as Slovaks or Poles. This video is covering Subcarpathian Rus' , though not all of "historical" Carpathian Ruthenia, it is the vast majority. No part of modern day Poland is part of Subcarpathia. There are Rusyns north of the mountains called Lemko-Rusyns (of which I am part, hence lemkowithhistory), their historic area is called Lemkovyna. Now to your town of Nowa Wieś. I would guess with pretty high certainty that if they came from this town they were likely polish (however) there was great movement back then so they could possibly have been Lemko-Rusyns if you found they belonged to the Greek-Catholic church, or a few other things.
This was somewhat an artistic decision, but I wanted to have people get a clearer picture of the Dual Monarchy during it's middle-early period versus when the vast majority of Rusyns who would emigrate already did.
Although I am not the creator and my answer might be somewhat one-sided ( as I am a Slovak ) but the 1910 census is not a good source of information as the authorities asked the people about what language they speak and not what they identify as (A lot of people were bilingual or trilingual but that didn't matter to the Hungarians). This as you might expect created a census favoring the Hungarians as the Jews for example still identified as Jews but spoke Hungarian, or Slovaks who still were Slovaks but spoke more Hungarian because of the Magyarization policy (The same with Rusyns).
Szlovákként egyértek, én mindent értem ruszinul, az nagyon hasonló nyelv szlovákhoz. Szerintem az csak egy harmadik nyelvünk csoporta, a szlovák és a cseh melett, bár a cseh kicsit közelebb. A külombség olyan mint például budapesti magyar és a székely között. Ukrán nyelv sokan nehezebb, oroszra hasonlít és ebből csak néhány szavat értem és azt is csak azért, mert oroszul is tanultam.
@@majstter7420 Jó lenne, ha azok az országok, amik Nagy Magyarország részei voltak 105 évvel ezelőtt egy unióban újra egyesülnének, ha esetleg az EU felbomlana. A Kárpát medence egyedül a világon képes önmagát fenntartani úgy, hogy nincs szüksége más nyersanyagra, élelmiszer behozatalára a olajon és gázon kívül, ami kiváltható. Védelmi szempontból a Kárpát medence dél kivételével védett és igen erős állam szövetség lenne és nem gyenge kis országként kezelnék a tagjait. A Kárpát medencében élők hasonlóan gondolkodnak, mint más országok. Békére törekszenek. Nagy hatalomként nagyobb szava lenne ennek az uniónak. Sajnos Csehország és Lengyelország nem így gondolkodik, ők tartozni akarnak valamihez, ami erős és nem érdekli őket, hogy semmibe veszik a létezésüket. Gondolni kell a jövőre, de nem a mások jólétére, hanem a sajátunkéra. A múltat nem elfelejteni kell, hanem kijavítani, mert nem mi számítunk, hanem a gyerekeink jövője.
Both sides of my family are carpatho rusyn moving to northeast pa to work in the anthracite coal mines in the late 1800s. My grandfather would tell me a story about his grandfather ,so my great x2 grandfather , about how he would cross over the creek in a makeshift raft to steal firewood and such from the rich Jewish guy on the other side and how one time the raft flipped in winter and he nearly drowned/froze to death.
Loved this one :)
Thanks for watching as always friend :)
A well-made video, short but detailed. Thanks!
My grandparents were from Ungvar and immigrated in the 1880's to the U.S. through Ellis Island. My grandfather's surname was Bigary. They settled in the Scranton, Pa. area.
My grandparents were Carpathian Rusyn.
Looks like you liked my suggestion. Thanks for making another good video!
I did! I'll be doing another one on Pre 1867 Austria-Hungary formation as well (When Subcarpathia was part of Transylvania). Thanks for watching as always M. P.
@@lemkowithhistory Sighetul Marmatie si acum face parte din Transilvania.
I have a suggestion Lemko for a new video. Could you do one on why Rusyns joined Czechoslovakia? I read somewhere that this wasn't really there first choice. If I remember correctly they wanted to join Russia or be independent which is a lot different from the way things played out. Just a suggestion! Loved this video a lot.
I will certainly add it to the list. I would also reccommend the Timo Foundation and their talk which partially focused on this as well.
th-cam.com/video/nvryHHw61aw/w-d-xo.html
Rusyns joined the hungarians freedom fight led by Francis II Rákóczi. Rákóczi called them the most faithful people (gens fidelissima) in recognition of their heroism.
LWH, I still watched the video before but this time I got a notification. Don't know if it helps you to know at all.
I can't remember well where but I used to read a reference about late XIXth Century Zemplén county describing it as having a poor Hungarian part (the South), a moderately poor but decent part (the middle, or the Slovakian one) and a Ruthenian part that was literally referenced as being "bestially poor" ("állatiasan szegény" for the Hungarian readers). I always recall this when learning about Zemplén.
Don't get it wrong, it can't be translated well to English, it was not intended to do degrade the Rusyns living there, it just tried to make the reader better perceive what the general conditions among which the mountaineers in this very remote region had been living. The Kingom of Hungary had been a predominantly agrarian, feudal country so no surprise these remote mountain areas provided very little prospect for any prosperity for those who had lived there.
So, centuries without your own government or meaningful representation, on the borderlands of empires - and in "bestial" poverty. Somewhat odd but this may have been the explanation of why this small ethnic group could survive there as a distinct ethnic group. Literally no one else wanted to live there. :)
I would like to know what your reference is for the map and district chart at 3:03… can I have a link?
Is was from Sicambrias channel on Saros County I believe th-cam.com/users/AHOSE97HuN
Файноє відео
дя́кую!
You must be careful with term "Subcarpathian Rus". I responded to you on Slovak reddit as well. Term is used for political entity that lasted from 1919/1920 to 1938/1939 and was established on major part of Bereg, Marmaros, Ugocsa, and Bereg counties. If you speak about Austria-Hungary you can only speak about individual counties. Small exception would be Adolf Dobriansky and his effort to create Ruthenian/Rusin province which he could not fullfill due to resistance from hungarian parliament. Anyway, if you would like to discuss this I would gladly talk about this. I am currently studying PhD. and my thesis is Ruthenian political elite and their fight for autonomy of Subcarpathian Rus in Czechoslovakia. I also think I have some ancestors coming from Rusins so there is a little personal motivation as well.
Sure there is no "Subcarpathian Rus'" as in a single entity in Austria-Hungary, as was stated in the video. Of course we can also define Subcarpathia Rus' or Podkarpatska Rus' purely as what is now Zakarpattia Oblast in Ukraine during the time of the first Czechoslovak republic. From a western context (Rusyn diaspora) some of us use Subcarpathian Rus' as a cultural term as well to describe all of the lands south of Carpathians that Rusyns inhabited, or usually just Carpathian Rus to describe the entire area to include Lemkovyna. The point of this video, of which I say at the end is that during its time in Hungary there was no divide between Rusyns in Presov Region or Rusyns in Transcarpathia. I am reffering to a cultural area where Rusyns lived, think "only being able to talk about individual counties" is too rigid if we are talking about a legit Ethno-lingusitic area. Using Carpathian Ruthenia could perhaps be a better option, but I stand by my use of it.
Here is what I mean as an example (Carpathian Rus' picture): www.britannica.com/topic/Rusyn-people
While perhaps not exactly "correct" in a scholary context, though Professor Magosci refers to the entire area as Carpathian Rus' as well, this is how we talk about the region. It is akin to for example how Kurds describe the areas they live in as Kurdistan even though some of these areas they have no autonomy.
Thanks for watching as well, always enjoy respectful critiques or inquiry.
@@lemkowithhistory Ah yes, there are little nuances in which I disagree with Magocsi opinions. But hey, it might be just my scholarly point of view. Anyway, did your family retain rusin language? Part of my family in US speaks Slovak, but most of them do not which is shame. Also, Magocsi do organize (or take part in orgnazing) summer school of Rusyn language here in Prešov. Have been in central europe before?
@@miso689 My great grandfather knew it, my grandparents know it somewhat, but my father and I knew nothing of the language. I've never been to Central Europe before unfortunately. I'm actually going to the Prešov Rusyn Studium next summer, should be a fun time! Can't wait to learn more from Magosci and others + exploring Slovakia.
@@lemkowithhistory Sad to hear that you could not retaind language. Nevertheless there is still opportunity to do so. I am sure it might be quite shock to visit (central) Europe as american rediscovering its own heritage. Prešov used to be much more beautiful town than it is now. Some people actually called it pearl of upper hungary. World wars and communist era took its toll on it but there is still something to enjoy. Hopefully you will enjoy your stay.
Great 🍺
Thank you!
Bak in thees dayz I remember sitting on de porch smoking mi nice devils lettuce pipe
You leave out many polish in Slovakia there was many of those but no officially
@Rockingda yes
Smet, if I'm not mistaken there is no real official tally of Poles in the Kingdom of Hungary. As these people were counted as Slovaks. If you find a good source I'm more than willing to put it into the description.
@@smetjings2663 Gorals are not Polish. Many gorals identify as Slovaks. There is no and never was a Polish majority in Slovakia. FUN FACT: The polish government after ww1 claimed Orava and Spiš as theirs because of the goral population. As you might expect only the Polish liked this and Gorals rather stayed in Czechoslovakia. This can be seen as the first moment of Polish imperialism. I hate it when Poles say Gorals are Polish when Gorals are both Slovaks and Polish. Each category on the respective side of the border.
@Lokalu Kaldorei Hey there, if you have matched up the ages of when your g-grandparents were born and what was on the Ellis Island records, then I would say it is a high chance of being accurate. Rusyns and Poles are two seperate ethnicities. Poles are West Slavs (speak a language closer to Czechs and Slovaks), while Rusyns are East Slavs (our language is closer to Ukrainian, somewhat Russian as well). What Smet Jings is reffering to is another Carpathian ethnicity called the Gorals, who for many either identify as Slovaks or Poles. This video is covering Subcarpathian Rus' , though not all of "historical" Carpathian Ruthenia, it is the vast majority. No part of modern day Poland is part of Subcarpathia. There are Rusyns north of the mountains called Lemko-Rusyns (of which I am part, hence lemkowithhistory), their historic area is called Lemkovyna.
Now to your town of Nowa Wieś. I would guess with pretty high certainty that if they came from this town they were likely polish (however) there was great movement back then so they could possibly have been Lemko-Rusyns if you found they belonged to the Greek-Catholic church, or a few other things.
@@m.p.6573 goral language is polish all that needed to say
Excellent video Starek! Your talents continue to be wasted only doing these videos online.
Thank you, paying for tuition is always available haha
Why don't you use the 1910 census data? That was the last census conducted by the Kingdom of Hungary.
This was somewhat an artistic decision, but I wanted to have people get a clearer picture of the Dual Monarchy during it's middle-early period versus when the vast majority of Rusyns who would emigrate already did.
Although I am not the creator and my answer might be somewhat one-sided ( as I am a Slovak ) but the 1910 census is not a good source of information as the authorities asked the people about what language they speak and not what they identify as (A lot of people were bilingual or trilingual but that didn't matter to the Hungarians). This as you might expect created a census favoring the Hungarians as the Jews for example still identified as Jews but spoke Hungarian, or Slovaks who still were Slovaks but spoke more Hungarian because of the Magyarization policy (The same with Rusyns).
Good video but you should check the correct pronunciation of Hungarian spelling: Sáros reads as Sharosh in English, Ung as Oong, Ugocsa as Ugocha etc.
Fair enough.
En français s'il vous plait !!!
A ruszinok nem ukránok. Ők egy külön népcsoport. A ruszinok és a magyarok mindig békében voltak egymással. Megérdemelnék, hogy külön országuk legyen.
Mostly agree with that.
@Mocanu Stefan It doesn't make much sense.
békében - in peace,
külön - separately.
The others are incomprehensible
Szlovákként egyértek, én mindent értem ruszinul, az nagyon hasonló nyelv szlovákhoz. Szerintem az csak egy harmadik nyelvünk csoporta, a szlovák és a cseh melett, bár a cseh kicsit közelebb. A külombség olyan mint például budapesti magyar és a székely között. Ukrán nyelv sokan nehezebb, oroszra hasonlít és ebből csak néhány szavat értem és azt is csak azért, mert oroszul is tanultam.
@@majstter7420 Jó lenne, ha azok az országok, amik Nagy Magyarország részei voltak 105 évvel ezelőtt egy unióban újra egyesülnének, ha esetleg az EU felbomlana. A Kárpát medence egyedül a világon képes önmagát fenntartani úgy, hogy nincs szüksége más nyersanyagra, élelmiszer behozatalára a olajon és gázon kívül, ami kiváltható. Védelmi szempontból a Kárpát medence dél kivételével védett és igen erős állam szövetség lenne és nem gyenge kis országként kezelnék a tagjait. A Kárpát medencében élők hasonlóan gondolkodnak, mint más országok. Békére törekszenek. Nagy hatalomként nagyobb szava lenne ennek az uniónak. Sajnos Csehország és Lengyelország nem így gondolkodik, ők tartozni akarnak valamihez, ami erős és nem érdekli őket, hogy semmibe veszik a létezésüket. Gondolni kell a jövőre, de nem a mások jólétére, hanem a sajátunkéra. A múltat nem elfelejteni kell, hanem kijavítani, mert nem mi számítunk, hanem a gyerekeink jövője.
Zemplén county had hungarian majority.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zempl%C3%A9n_County
True
Ugosca????? :):) Ugocsa (Ugotsa) is the right!
Lacks all substance
What kind of trash comment is this?