High Kings of the Noldor Elves - Families of Middle-earth
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 มิ.ย. 2023
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The High Kings of the Noldor were great leaders for the first few ages of Middle-earth, yet all of their stories end in some sort of tragic fate. Thank you all so much for watching, let me know your thoughts on the high kings in the comments below! As always, a great thanks to the online artists whose visual works made this video possible! If you are one of the artists, please let me know and I will post your name and a link to your work in this description!
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Hey Fathers! I hope you are having a fantastic Fathers day, wherever you are in Middle Earth!
Perfect place to stay for that lady bi is in mines of moria ,mordor and for Mihaela Something Diana is in lothlorien gondor rohan
Perfect place to stay for that lady bi is in mines of moria ,mordor and for Mihaela Something Diana is in lothlorien gondor rohan
Happy fathers Day .
I think Voronwë (at least I think it was him) summed the line up best when he said it was a terrible thing to be caught between the curse of Melkor and the Doom of the Manwe.
I just lost my Father on Veteran's day (he was a veteran so we think it was fitting) and today has been hard but your video took my mind off my loss for a bit, thank you.
I’m so sorry for your loss, my friend. May your father rest in peace! Peace that he has undoubtedly earned.
I'm so sorry for your loss. I send you hugs but only if you want them as I respect your personal space
"In sorrow we must go, but not in despair. Behold! we are not bound for ever to the circles of the world, and beyond them is more than memory."
I'm sorry for your loss, my friend.
He’s in the hall of Mandos waiting to reunite with you. Don’t worry and be teary my friend, soon you shall be reunited with him. So live now and make a good life. You will see him again.
So great that you got that sponsorship. Nobody deserves it more. I just don't know anyone who brings to life this world on You tube better than you do. I have been watching for works for several years now and I have learned so much. Thanks.
Feanor claimed the kingship, but this claim was not accepted by most from, essentially, the moment Feanor made it, and this was before the Kinslaying.
This is consistent through the variant texts:
"He [Feanor] now claimed the kingship of all the Noldor, since Finwë was dead, and mocked the decree of the Valar."
"Yet the Noldor of Tûn would not now renounce the kingship of Fingolfin; and as two divided hosts, therefore, they at length set forth upon their bitter road"
LRaoW, Quenta Silmarillion
"...and Fingolfin ruled the Noldor of Túna."
"He [Feanor] claimed now the kingship of all the Noldor, since Finwë was dead, and he scorned the decrees of the Valar."
"For though he [Feanor] had brought the assembly in a mind to depart, by no means all were of a mind to take Fëanor as king. Greater love was given to Fingolfin and his sons, and his household and the most part of the dwellers in Tirion refused to renounce him, if he would go with them."
MR, Annals of Aman
Even Feanor seems to recognizes this, after claiming the kingship he only refers to himself as heir:
"But Fëanor laughed, and spoke not to the herald, but to the Noldor, saying: ‘So! Then will this valiant people send forth the heir of their King alone into banishment with his sons only, and return to their bondage?"
The Silmarillion, Of the Flight of the Noldor
Feanor was not "officially" the king of the Noldor. Tolkien never uses that term for him.
That Fingolfin was king is also noted in in the post-LotR work 'Words, Phrases and Passages in Lord of the Rings':
"After banishment of Feanor (& Finwe) Ingoldo became king, and took name of Finwe; but was known as Vinya Finwe or Ingoldo Finwe. From Ingoldofinwe > Ingolfin. [If Fingolfin is used at all this must be for Finwe·nolofinwe.]"
Parma Eldalamberon 17
and the pre-LotR Etymologies has:
"*tāro king: only used of the legitimate kings of the whole tribes, as Ingwe of the Lindar, Finwë of the Noldor (and later Fingolfin and Fingon of all the exiled Gnomes). The word used of a lord or king of a specified region was aran (âr),"
LR, Etymologies
Re: Gil-galad: Even as son of Fingon, his claim to the High Kingship would not necessarily come before Turgon. The High Kingship (regardless of Gil-galad's parentage) passed to the eldest (eligible) male of the house (the Feanoreans having lost their rights (dispossessed) were not eligible).
This is in keeping with Maedhros statement:
"For Maedhros begged forgiveness for the desertion in Araman; and he waived his claim to kingship over all the Noldor, saying to Fingolfin: ‘If there lay no grievance between us, lord, still the kingship would rightly come to you, the eldest here of the house of Finwë, and not the least wise.’"
The Silmarillion, Of the Return of the Noldor
something that always bothered me about Eärendil, was placing him the sky to sail forever a reward or a punishment for daring to enter Aman?
"Now come the days of the king."
These kings may not have been perfect but they were the prototype for what makes a great ruler and what makes a bad ruler. Personally I would like to have seen elven kings and high kings into the 3rd age. The geopolitical settings and happenings would have been interesting to contemplate. Tho I suppose with Aragorns son one could make the argument he is the last elven high king? Even tho he's only half elven lol.
The fall of Gil-Galad the last High King of the Nolder left the remaining elves to split up and defend their area. This leads to Sauron growing power in Mordor.
Perfect end to a good weekend tell us of the elven kings and their legend
IDK if it was just a result of Tolkien dying while still tinkering with the line of Finwe, but I can't help but think it would make more sense if Gil-Galad was the son of Argon. It means he had to be born in Valinor, but it makes sense with the line of succession without having to add a son no one ever mentions to the Fall of Nargothrond.
Another great video Yoystan. Thank you for your dedication to this wonderful Legendarium. It's interesting how the Noldor were more easily manipulated by the dark lords than the other Elven kindred. First Melkor whispering lies to them about the Valar, causing their rebellion and then banishment and doom from Valinor.Then in the Second Age Sauron as Annatar was able to deceive the Noldor of Eregion into crafting the rings of power so he could control them with The One. Again it seems that beings who were driven almost obsessively to crafting things from the elements of Arda either got seduced by evil or were manipulated by them. Fëanor, Mairon who became Sauron, Curumo/Saruman, Celebrimbor etc. They all kind of had a short sided tunnel vision that allowed them to either to be destroyed in their end or becoming something they once rejected: corrupted Evil.
I don’t see why Fingon could not have passed the kingship to his powerful and beloved brother Turgon, who was already a King, instead of passing it to his son Gil Galad, who was too young at that time, and who he was trying to keep safe, to keep secret.
The treachery of SOME of the Easterlings. Those who remained loyal slew most of the betrayers personally, and any survivors presumably became part of the Edain.
Off topic but dude nice sponsor landing!!!!
The Kings of the Noldor were frankly the best homies of the era .
All except for one.
Thanks, well done on the sponsorship.
I don't care what anyone says, I will count Gil-Galad as Fingons son, I don't like the High Kingship leaving the line of Fingolfin.
That would make Turgon a regant of the Noldor and not the High King.
Man, it really shows how Arda developed over time from Finwë to Gil Galad...Because Fëanor was a Pyromaniac by everything, including his name!!!
Thanks Mellon for the Kings of the Ñoldor, *sorry I hadn't had much to say, trying to finish an Essay so badly...* Until what was Gandalf's OG plan, Marion Baggins Out!!!
I don’t know if you’re up for suggestions/requests, but I’d love to see a deep dive into Ecthelion. I know the story of his fighting during the Fall of Gondolin changed over the years as Tolkien tinkered with it, but even if you strip away the Balrogs & Dragons slain by him in those earlier writings, the final story still describes an absolute BEAST! I’ve never really been able to reconcile the fame of Glorfindel with the achievement of Ecthelion in his last stand. He seems like such a tank of a warrior.
It's worth pointing out that _technically_ Elrond would have been Gil-Galad's heir, having a claim to the Noldor High Kingship through his bloodline from the House of Fingolfin. However, by that point there weren't really enough Noldor left in Middle Earth for there to be a High King for, as many would have perished in the strife with Sauron and many others would have sailed back to Valinor.
They were for the most part the epitome of nobility virtue and sacrifice
Kudos on the sponsorship! You totally deserve it, you elven warrior! 🤘
Thank you for all your hard work.
Great video topic. Thanks
I never understood the notion of the Noldor claiming a High King in Middle Earth when they had to know that Finarfin would have been given the title after the rebellion and especially the kin slaying.
To the hot-hearted "rebel" Noldor, Finarfin would have been the one who lost heart and perhaps courage and retreated back to the gilded cage of the Valar. That's how many would have viewed it at the time. They needed a new High King, and given that both Feanor and Fingolfin were senior to Finarfin, it would stand to reason that one of them (both in the end) would be High King in Middle Earth rather than someone who turned back.
What I learned from the Silmarillion was that it is very dangerous to be the High King of the Noldor
Not sure if I had anything to do with this but I suggested this video a month or 2 ago. Thank you!
Another fantastic video as always! I've always yearned and fantasized about experiencing some of this era in the Rings Of Power. However, my excitement waned after witnessing the disappointing depiction of the Elves in it.
With the death of Gil-galad, the House of Finwe was extinguished in the male line in Middel-earth. The only living descendants of Finwe remaining in Middle-earth at the dawn of the Third Age were Galadriel, Celebrian, Elrond, and the descendants of Elros, who were counted among the race of Men.
"Galad occurs also in the epessë of Ereinion (‘scion of kings') by which he was chiefly remembered in legend, Gil-galad ‘star of radiance’: he was the last king of the Eldar in Middle-earth, and the last male descendant of Finwë except Elrond the Half-elven."
PoMe, Shibboleth of Feanor
If he wanted to, Elrond's birthright gives him a legitimate claim to the seat of High King of the Noldor in Middle Earth.
What if Sauron was imprisoned like melkor in the first Age after the war that destroyed beleriand
Great job🩵
Some questions. What is the definitive resource on the House of Finwe, which changes the ancestry of both Orodreth and Gil-galad? Also, have you talked about why Galadriel didn't try to claim the High Queenship of the Noldor as the daughter of Fiinarfin? I know in Numenor they adopted true primogeniture of the eldest child, male or female inheriting the Sceptre, but what about the Elves?
Yeah I always wondered about madame "I want a kingdom" not taking a shot at the empty throne. My guess is the Eldar had strict agnatic succession, or that by the time Gil-Galad had his face melted away, her pride had gone the same way and saw no sense in claiming the throne of diminished realm.
I don't recall Tolkien ever writing one way or another about whether Elvish laws of succession allowed for a ruling Queen. Galadriel returned to Middle-Earth because she wanted a realm of her own to rule. It may be that her plan at that time was to found a new realm, independent of other Elven kingdoms.
For one reason or another, maybe only through the wisdom that time and hardship bring, she was content to maintain Lorien as a sort of memorial, an echo of the beauty of Valinor, I believe.
Women do not seem to have been eligible for the High Kingship.
PLEASE DO A VIDEO ABOUT THE EVIL DWARVES, I beg you DO IT
What if Isildor destroyed the one Ring in the second Age?
Isildur couldn't destroy the One Ring. No one in Middle-Earth could.
@@istari0 if they tossed it they could
@@emperordeath They would not be able to bring themselves to actually toss it.
Isildur could've brought the One Ring to Mt. Doom with the plan of destroying it. Then, at the last moment decided to claim it for himself. Jumping around filled with joy of having the ring to help him rule Middle Earth as a benevolent king, he could've slipped and fell to his doom in the magma of Mt. Doom. 😆
If he had destroyed it, there wouldn't have been a Lord of the Rings
the first age would make a great movie.
No it wouldn't. It would have to be a TV show, or the very least, a movie series. The reason why is because the first age has too much content to cover in single movie.
I agree but please don't give it to Peter Jackson
It's very paradoxical, and alien from a human perspective. Elves are meant to live forever, and many of them indeed live for hundreds or thousands of years , but because kings are always expected to lead from the front, the kings of the elves often die comparatively young. Thus an elf could live to see passing of every single High King of the Noldor. Some elves, like Galadriel, even did.
woahh that sponsorship tho
If the Elves were re-embodied after their stay in the halls of Mandos, would Finwë reclaim his throne?
probably not, elves go through a period of heavy soul searching and reflection when they are waiting for judgement, they probably don't care for earthly politics as much after that.
I have an interesting what if idea
What if Beren took All the 3 silmarils from morgoths 👑
Run out with the whole crown, running on the inside to move it a hamster wheel.
He tried, and a splinter from Angrist, the knife made by Telchar that he swiped from Curufin, wounded Morgoth's face when he tried for a second one, which woke him and the hosts of Angband up, including Carcaroth the werewolf, who bit off his silmaril-bearing hand.
I use Arch btw
Is it me or is the FA very complicated?
Very is a bit of an understatement. Even after 40 odd years, I still get things mixed up. 😊
Finwe was a really crappy father to Fingolfin
so the second season of Rings of Power may show what happens to Gil-Galad?
You should hope not. I want no more defilement.
High King's definition = Emperor
King of, but not quite. Emperor is very much in charge and all the Kings under him are his vassals. The High King is a term of respect and ultimately leadership, but the Kings under him are free to do more or less what they want most of the time. I would imagine High King is more about coordinating an overall campaign like against Sauron.
@@user-td9hp6li5h that's not heraldry rules work, friend. Emperor is the utmost title, above king. High King is a title created to refer to an Emperor.
@@gabrielraw7979 Well, first there's a danger in trying to put Real Life heraldic rules into a fictionalised setting of Tolkien's Arda...
...even disregarding that, there are differences. High Kings typically are of culturally similar entities (e.g. a High King of Ireland, when what is now Ireland was comprised of many states each ruled by a King), whereas Emperors may not be (e.g. a European Emperor ruling over various countries spanning Europe, Africa, Asia, etc - e.g. a Roman or British Emperor).
This is a good definition:
"A high king is a king who holds a position of seniority over a group of other kings, without the title of emperor. Similar titles include great king and king of kings. The high kings of history usually ruled over lands of cultural unity; thus high kings differentiate from emperors who control culturally different lands, and feudal monarchs, where subordinates assume lesser positions.
In history and literature, high kings may be found where there is a high degree of cultural unity, along with sufficient political fragmentation that the high king's subordinates style themselves kings. In this respect, high kingships frequently differ from empires, which are culturally as well as politically heterogeneous, as well as from feudal monarchies, where the subordinate rulers take lesser titles (such as duke or count) and may be, at least in theory, subject to appointment and dismissal by the sovereign.
In this model, a high king might be chosen from among a group of kings in his personal capacity, for instance by election or on the basis of genealogical superiority. Alternatively, the high kingship might be attached to the kingship of one of the constituent kingdoms, either permanently or when one kingdom is able to assert supremacy over the others. The high king's authority over other kings is usually limited, and in some high kingships his duties are largely ceremonial or restricted to occasions such as war that create a need for a unified command structure."
@@user-td9hp6li5h Tolkien was good student of Heraldry in the British Monarchy... There is no mistake of using the same rules of Heraldry in LOTR... The Kingdom of Gondor has no Minor King. The one that could be called like that was the Prince of Dol Amaroth BUT he was a Prince... There is not High King in Heraldry, above king only Emperor. The title of Emperor is not related only because of the Roman empire, but due to the size of the Kingdom and the quantity of kingdoms attached to the main one. That's the definition of an Empire. Tolkien just created a New title for the same thing.
@@gabrielraw7979 The thing is, High King _wasn't_ actually invented by Tolkien. They were a real concept in several parts of the world.
1. There was a High King of Ireland
2. There was a High King of Scotland
3. ...And of the Britons...and the Picts
4. There was a concept of Adhiraja in the Indian subcontinent who was above the standard "Raja" that is the cognate of King,.
5. The famous King Agamemnon certainly wasn't an Emperor, but he also wasn't the same status as the other Kings of the Greek states during his time - he was above their level.
6. Several lands which were city-states had High Kings, be it ancient Sumer or Etrusca.
7. The Yang di-Pertuan Agong of Malaysia is effectively a High King of other types of King including sultans and a raja - this is decided on a rotational basis who this is.
8. The Taewang of Korean kingdoms was effectvely a High King.
9. The Bretwalda of Anglo-Saxon kingdoms was an overload of other rulers, effectively a High King.
I'm quite sure Tolkien was familiar with British heraldry, so some influences will be from there - but we also know that he took influences more widely than just from the British Isles. The Elves for instance were more based on a combination of Irish and Scandinavian (especially Finnish) folklore. As I mentioned above, Ireland did have High Kings.
YEAH LORD OF THE RINGS LORE FUCK YEEEEAAAH
👍🏻
Finwe was never a High King because in his days he was the only king of the Noldor, being in fact a vassal to Ingwe of the Vanyar, the High King of all the Eldar.
Maedhros was high king the nanosecond his father died. That’s how kingship works, you only have to cal it if you aren’t the heir apparent which he was, plus his only other contenders were his brothers who were in support of him
Which is also why he had the authority to pass the high kingship on to the house of Fingolfin
Neither Maedhros nor Feanor were high kings of the Noldor.
Maedhros relinquished his claim to the kingship. Not the kingship itself.
@@tar-elenionmaranwe1275 nope, the nanosecond the Noldor split off which they did for the first time when Finarfin led some of them back to Valenor, the high kingship was in effect, especially when Feanor and his group were in middle earth while Fingolfin and his were still crossing and Finarfin was just in Valenor. The Kingship was only in effect whilst all the noldor still followed the same Royal and lived in one kingdom, the minute they chose to split off, it crated the high kingship, Feanor was high king of all the Noldor, even the ones under Fingolfin and Finarfin, wether they liked it or not, and after he Died, Maedhros was the high king till he relinquished it to Fingolfin, who at the time was just a king of his own group even if he never declared himself king, his people still followed him as one and thought of him as a king from their time in Valenor. The high kingship was simply more prevalent in Baleriand because basically every single member of Finwes line decided to create a kingdom, so they had to acknowledge a head king amongst them now more than ever
@@billychops1280 Provide quotes from Tolkien calling Feanor or Maedhros high king.
@@tar-elenionmaranwe1275 I don’t have to, the terms for becoming high king are known to us, and they apply to Feanor and Maedhros, it’s that simply, it requires a limited amount of grain power which I hope u can muster but it doesn’t seem likely
Why did Finwe's wife die in Valinor? Isnt Valinor the Undying Lands and there they are immortal? And do Elves really die of childbirth?
No, they can die, but the spirits will go to the Halls of Mandos and wait to be re-embodied for a long time and then reborn in Valinor. Except for Men, their spirits went outside the circles of the world where Elu is. Also Finwë's 1st wife chose to leave her body. Finwë remarried. Centuries later, when Finwë was killed by Melkor. She re-embodied and became a weaver of the history of Arda.
@@donpula6349 so you can die in the Undying Lands? Aren't you immortal there? I thought you were.
@Kuality Studios I mean, Elves can choose to die and leave their bodies. Also they can be physically hurt and kill. But after they die, they can be re-embodied again in Aman only. Look on Finrod and Glorfindel. They both died in Billeriand, but their souls went to the Halls of Mandos, but they've been reborn in a short time instead of long due to their good deeds or honourable oath. Look on the Simirillion. Or look about Miriel (Finwë 1st wife and mother of Fëanor) Finrod and Glorfindel, and you'll understand.
@@abcjuniormilton In the Legendarium, death is the separation of the body and the spirit. So, death is possible. However, the Elves can be re-embodied after a period of time in the Halls of Mandos and return. So, for them death is not permanent, at least not until the end of the world.
She willingly gave up her hroa (body), having given up so much of her strenth of spirit to her son Feanor ("fire-Spirit"). She also knew that he would go on to lead the Noldor to commit the Kinslaying at Alqualonde, followed by self-imposed exile and hopeless war upon Morgoth in Beleriand, after the "Prophecy of the North, and the Doom of the Noldor" was spoken by Mandos, warning them to stay and seek the doom and pardon of the Valar.
I don't care about notes from Chris Tolkien. Gil-Galad IS The Son of Fingon. Not Orodreth. End of story.
What if Finwe survived
Finwe would have called for everyone to wait, Feanor and his sons would take the Oath and go alone to Middle Earth, crossing over land since they had no hope of taking ships and so they didn't receive the Doom of Mandos, since this was without the Kinslaying, they would have died at the gates of Angband to the Balrogs or maybe Morgoth himself. The Vala would make the Sun and Moon as normal, but because Finwe is still alive, and his love for Thingol and Thingols love for him being so great, the Vala would have been moved to send a great host from the West, not as many as the War of Wrath since Morgoth had no dragons yet and the orcs are still unable to bare the sunlight, the host would have laid siege to Angband, like after the Dagor Aglareb but ever soon after, Tulkas and Orome, would cross into Middle Earth, tear the gates of Angband and Tulkas would once again capture Morgoth and all 3 Silmarils, the Two Trees would be recalled and Men would awake in the East, completely free of any of Morgoths darkness and so would move West much later and find a world in peace.
Glorifindel is da GOAT
God of all Texans?
Am I strange for pronouncing his name as Fin-Golf-Inn ?
elves return after they die then why would he married another woman when she could return 🤔
I actuall cringed a little when you called Heroes of Middle Earth a "CRPG"
Anything touched by Aulë turns to shit. Are we sure he isn't the true dark lord?
Ew... an EA game.
An EA sponsorship? To be honest, I'm kind of disappointed.
Dying channel.... especially having to take on a sponsorship like that
Happy Pride month 🌈
Men of the West! I was rewatching the trilogy and I had a couple questions for you, or the fans. If there isn't any answers, then I understand. I haven't read the books or lore and I was wondering if there was any clarification.
First, what happened to the rings of the nine? The witch king was killed. Was he still wearing the ring?
Bilbo immediately aged after leaving the ring to Frodo. Why didn't Smeagle age as well?
Why could Bilbo nonchalantly use the ring to go invisible? Did he experience the same thing as Frodo?
What did Frodo feel that attracted him to the ring so much?
Thanks brother.
As I understand it, once the 9 men who were given Rings of Power became Nazgûl, they no longer needed to wear their Rings in order for Sauron to dominate the. All the Rings of Power became ordinary rings once the One was destroyed.
The movies left out the actual amount of time between when Bilbo gave up the One Ring and when it was destroyed. There were 17 years alone between the time Gandalf left the Shire after seeing the Ring in Frodo's possession and when he returned to test if that ring was indeed the One. So, Bilbo didn't age instantly. I think Gollum aged even more slowly because he had both possessed and used the Ring much more than Bilbo ever did and had become wraith-like.
Sauron did not know the One Ring had been found when Bilbo had it. By the time Frodo first put it on, Sauron and the Nazgûl were actively looking for it.
The One Ring appealed to the wearer's desires. Frodo would have wanted to use the Ring to do good, as Gandalf describes what he (the wizard) would have initially done had he taken the One. With that opening, that's how tried to corrupt him.
Gollum didn’t she for he had been literally influenced by what he was holding: a seriously important artifact created by one of the Maiar! It literally effected him deeply for 500 years nonstop. Same with how orca were elves that were tortured and ritualistically cursed and warped into those forms which are indeed soulless since their souls not long after they simply renounce their body, their Fëa spirit stripping the Hroä away from itself and then essentially more keen to the calls of the sea and then they go to Mandos!
If you want to know more about the other stuff I recommend The Red Book’s recent lonnnng video titled “mouth of Sauron” it actually goes deep into so many other things that also show how important he was as well. Huge source material there. And intense production value! And then GirlNextGondor’s Nextomancy video which also explains how magic works in Arda which also tie other lore stuff into things in such a beautiful way. The thumbnail of that one is of an artwork of a spectral white figure.
I understand how important sponsors are to content creators these days. However I don't know how much more of your content I want to support or consume after I heard you say that your video was "brought to you" by EA....
Turns my stomach