I just love the idea of people trying to talk to them and they mock them in a high pitched voice. Repeated efforts to talk with them leads to repeated mockery, eventually culminating in conflict; as they're being killed, the petty dwarves are still mocking them. "oH nO, what are you gonna do, Kill us?" *kills them* "Wooow, killing us? Sooo mature, sO cIvIlIzEd"
"You, turned away from the suffering of my people!" These guys remind me of Gollum. They're wretched and dark hearted but I can't help but pity them. They were dealt a bad hand in life and that's all they know. Perhaps they were an early attempt in the corruption of the dwarves by Morgoth? Either way theirs is a sad story 😔
@@lisboah In the period between the awakening of the Elves and the Battle of the Powers (YT 1050-1099), Melkor had not yet been captured by the Valar and was in Utumno. It is possible that the dwarves will awaken during this period after the awakening of the elves. Thus, the petty-dwarves may be an example of a failed attempt to corrupt the dwarves, as Melkor did with the elves. The idea that Melkor could not corrupt the dwarves, just as Sauron could not corrupt them with his rings of power, is compatible with Tolkien's cyclical storytelling approach. This may be why they were exiled from their clan.
When our gracious host asked for topic suggestions a few weeks ago, I suggested the petty-dwarves. I'm glad our great friend took up my suggestion. I asked for the petty-dwarves because they are a bit of an outlier to the rest of Middle Earth. While villainous, they are also sympathetic. I was curious about what insights Yoystan had to share about the petty-dwarves--and he did not disappoint. As always, great work--and Yoystan offered an important lesson. Great stuff here.
Seven of the Petty-dwarves fled to southern Germany and later met a princess who fled from her evil step mother who had an enchanted mirror ;) Great content as always
Maybe: Tolkien does make frequent use of the number 7 in his writings about the (seven clans, seven rings, seven kings named Durin, etc.), and it's probably a deliberate joke on his part.
100% my head canon. THE Seven Dwarves were definitely Petty-dwarves. Their only associations and loyalties were to family, as they were all brothers, with no fealty to the seven dwarven clans. They worked to for their own self-enrichment, and were ready to kill Snow White on the first meeting with her, but she was hot, and she did their house work, so they accepted her.
While Aulë made the Dwarves resistant to domination, there's no reason to think they were completely immune. My suspicion is that Melkor managed to corrupt some Dwarves but being dissatisfied with the results, he ignored them afterwards, and these Dwarves became the Petty-dwarves.
The dwarves were indeed corruptable: the ones who bore the seven rings of power resisted being enthralled to Sauron like the Nazgul; but they were corrupted by the rings in other way, namely by becoming greedy and selfish Therefore, your theory makes sense to me. Melkor probably abandoned the petty-dwarves because they weren't obedient enough to be useful to him
Despite the fact it's one of the least developed parts of the Middle-Earth lore, dwarf stuff still carry enough flavor to be interesting in its own right. Hats off to Tolkien for managing to make it so
What makes the Petty Dwarves' story even more tragic is that neither Morgoth nor Sauron had a part in that (unless you count Melkor's role during the Ainulindalë). It's very hard to criticize Mim for his actions, when the peoples that shunned and hunted down his people were thriving, while his people slowly fell to extinction.
I believe that among Hobbits, it was the Stoors who were rumored to have some Dwarvish blood in their veins. I've wondered whether it was more specifically the Petty-Dwarves who interbred with them. One can see why Hobbits might take to Petty-Dwarves and vice versa. So perhaps the Stoors were the last vestige of Petty-Dwarf DNA.
I did not know this! And I love it! Although it does not surprise me😂 It seems like hobbits are pretty much just the ancestors of all the free peoples😂😂😂
Mellon! We do not name Morgoth Bauglir by his original name "Melkor". Edit: I must emphasis that petty dwarves were black hearted folk. But I refuse to believe that Sindar ever ate them. Also, for me the kinslaying of Feanor was the worst deed by any elf, along with Maeglin who betrayed Gondolin. This was more like war between petty dwarves and the Sindar.
"Hadn't finished his lore, indeed": Tolkien's existing work never gave me quite enough reason to hate the Petty-Dwarves, and they were at least as badly sinned against as they were sinning. Their "crimes" of sharing their culture hardly seemed to merit either exile or being hunted, and many of their later acts seemed forced on them by desperation, at least in part. My primary reaction to them was pity: a dying people who wer alone, lost, and impoverished. A description of the "bandoned smithies" and emptiness of their old settlement, when Mim returned ot it, almsot brings a tear to my eye, to say nothing of seeing his sons killed. Indeed, their final state has always reminded me of waht some say are the fates of all fairy-folk in the world, if indeed they exist, and that makes the image doubly sad.
My suspicion is that the Petty Dwarves are dwarves that Morgoth and Sauron got their hands on and messed with. The dwarvish template is probably too sturdy and resilient to let them do more than just make them crappier dwarves, similar to how the rings of power could only marginally affect the dwarves. If they were released or escaped from captivity, they were probably shunned by the unaltered dwarves for being “tainted” by the dark powers and driven west away from their homelands, and this ostracism may be why the don’t revere the traditions of their people.
Honor is both a virtue and a luxury. The Petty Dwarves lacked honor in their dealings with others, but then again, honor doesn't exactly get you far when you're turned out by your own people, hunted for sport, or being displaced from your home. I can see why the Petty Dwarves would harbor a lot of resentment towards outsiders and generally choose to act for their own benefit whenever possible. However, that simply ensures they will continue to be treated as enemies and outcasts. Tolkien seems to put a high value on honor, belonging and brotherhood. The Petty Dwarves seem like a sad tale of what happens when people are deprived of these things.
Maybe Iluvatar has the best and most pure creations. If Dwarves were created by Aule to be a mimic of the thus-far-unborn Elves, and Yavanna created the Ents to be the same, then the bastardized byproducts might be the petty dwarves and huorns (also mean-spirited and boundless rejects). Just a thought…
No offense to Tolkien, but I think he just loved mythology so much that he wanted to shoehorn the dwarves from the Sigurd story into his legendarium. He might have had more than one reason for it, but you can definitely see the similarities between the two stories. Turin and his men slay one of the dwarf king’s sons, just as Loki, Odin and Heimdall slay one of Hreidmar’s sons, Otr. They both go about earning a ransom, though in different ways. Also, the name Mim is the name of the dwarf Regin in Wagner’s works. My personal interpretation of why the petty dwarves are not fleshed out is that he didn’t want to paint the seven dwarf clans in an overly negative light, and so he had to come up with a reason on why they were separate, which he may have never found the time to explain further. I don’t think the Sylvan elves ate petty dwarves…I think it’s similar to how the Rohirrim hunted the Druedain, maybe for sport or for keeping their population in check. But maybe Rohirrim ate Druedain as well, who knows?
Even in the “Real” world, accusations of cannibalism where there is none is a known “thing.” Take the destruction of the whaling ship Essex (destroyed by a whale !! ) for example. Survivors could’ve safely gone West, but they were scared of rumoured “canibal” tribes. And even outside the Pacific, some tribes called other tribes “cannibals” to reinforce their “otherness” and smear their reputations. Of course some tribes have practiced funerary cannibalism, and some other tribes have done a sort of cannibalism that adds insult to injury. Anyway, that’s real-world stuff. But look-and note well-how we learn about real practices and social things by studying myth !! Tolkien wrote of the these petty Dwarves getting eaten to illustrate & elucidate how they were viewed LOW almost like animals: and what that says about the “eaters,” AND those getting “eaten,” plus the the apocryphal ‘not-100%-sure-if-it’s-true’ aspect of the rumour/story is STRAIGHT out of Ethnography & Ethnology 101. Golly, I love Tolkien as a writer. From my Dad reading the Hobbit to me after work in his knee in 1976 to today as I write this comment about a Tolkien-mythos component I’d never noticed before. Life-long fan of that man. Literally.
@@miahconnell23 That’s a good point! Tolkien has got to be next-level IQ, we’re just lucky we had such a brilliant person who also liked dragons and elves. I’m more and more grateful for that combination
@@pearcebishop1162 Where did my reply go ? It seems you read it (thank you)…. Many of my comments have been disappearing or getting zero clicks in the last 8 months … But I don’t say anything mean to anyone, and I don’t say anything controversial on YT comments, because we all know how comments sections can get… 🤷♀️
The story of Mim and Turin are more about pride, forgiveness, and repentance. The dangers of clinging to vengeance and how the lack of forgiveness causes ruin and death
Man, these guys have so many questions about them...And I hope sometime we get some answers, not from Tolkien, Edith or their Children Though!!! Thanks for this Interesting video on the Petty Dwarves, *(I am going to soon check out the Podcast Episode soon after this)* these guys are so interesting, Until how did Gandalf became the White...Marion Baggins Out!!!
You left out my favorite clan of dwarves the dourhands from Lord of the rings online. Skorgrim has abs and a big hammer and looks like he was designed to be edgy so it's great 😂
I've always felt saddened by how the elves treated the petty dwarves. It definitely feels like a stain on their resumé. The elves are meant to be a force for good with a great understanding of the natural world. In this, they failed. Miserably. I've often felt that it was out of character for most of elven kind. Yes, the kinslaying at Acqualondë and the madness of Féanor and his sons was terrible, but that was driven by Morgoth and Ungoliant. Murdering dwarves seems so out of character that I wonder if Tolkien ever regretted this storyline? 😊❤😊
Hunting them doesn't imply they ate them. People have hunted wolves, coyote, etc. because the predators are attacking people or their livestock. The dwarves were ambushing elves after all.
From memories ( was it in UT or elsewhere ) The Sindar hunted the petty dwarves like animals , because the Petty dwarves were sneaking in the night , murdering elves and even eating some of them , not the other way around .
Petty dwarves still live every convention when dorkish humans dress up to try to look like dwarves but end up looking like ... badly dressed dorks = Petty dwarves.
I wonder if the slaying of Petty Dwarves by the Sindar could be some form of punishment towards Aulë from Iluvatar for attempting to create life of his own. We know this attempt at life resulted in the natural ill will between Elves and Dwarves. So maybe these exiled, lesser dwarves, would be naturally viewed by the Eldar as something needing to be exterminated by the will of Iluvatar, but as a subconscious thought, not something at the forefront of their minds. Like I don’t think the Elves were thinking, “kill these petty dwarves in the name of Iluvatar” but rather it was a natural feeling for the need to slay them. What do you think?
The idea that they're inherently evil and "just brought it upon themselves" wouldn't sit well with me. What I imagine is that the petty dwarves had different ideas than other dwarves. Whether they were exiled or chose to leave, they went west to make their own life. Even if they waylaid elves first, it certainly wouldn't justify hunting them like beasts... and since the open violence seemed to stop when the elves recognized them as intelligent suggests maybe the history was written by the victors... Theirs seems to be a sad story. Too different to fit in with other dwarves. First contact with elves was horrifically violent. Forced to build a fortress for a king they never asked for into their own homes. And ultimately allowed to just... die out. Regardless of their part to play in this, I can see why they'd be so embittered.
I imagine that the Petty Dwarves were banished probably because they did something the other Dwarves deemed particularly wicked . It is just my speculation, I think they rejected Aulë and started a cult of Melkor
Given that the elves who made contact with the Blue Mountain dwarfs were likely guards on the periphery of elvish territory, these guards also probably met the petty dwarfs too and hunted them. That’d be awkward sticking your hand out to a Firebeard to shake and thinking “hey he looks kinda like those things we...shot in the forest...whoops.”
Those AI images really stand out like a sore thumb from the rest. I really hope these haven't been included intentionally. I understand that its a very tempting technology to use, but even if we ignore the more potential large-scale implications of using this technology, not to mention its already strongly negative impact on actual artists, they're just so...creepy-looking. There's so much actual art there to use, and even if they're not Tolkien-related, they do the job. Audiences, especially on videos like these, are much more forgiving about these things then one might imagine. At the risk of sounding corny, I say don't fall for the temptation, and continue on as before. That is already more than enough.
Here’s my question: what did Tolkien understand about Britain’s history of colonization and its ‘relations’ with indigenous peoples? And most importantly, how did he feel about it? He is seen in many regards to be remarkably progressive, even for a learned professor, given his era. But everyone’s got blind spots. So: does this aspect of the Elven/Dwarven joint history flow from a progressive understanding of how Brits treated indigenous peoples who may have either started off or later become belligerent? Is it an unthinking reflection of British history, with no real insight into the Petty-Dwarves’ natural rights and equality as children of the One? Or - the least likely option - is that parallel pure coincidence?
You Will find answers if you read the akaballeth, and all of the wars between rohirrim and dunledings or numenoreans colonialist and the human natives of middle earth.
@@jorgepalomo6417 I’ve read Akallabeth. My point is exactly that I want his perspective spelled out because too many different interpretations are possible - if not of how much he understood, certainly of how he felt about it. I want the nuance of his feelings on the matter.
I think Tolkien was trying to compare these two dwarfs like how mankind has evolved with like homo sapiens and Neanderthals. Or how any other people have been invaded by others.
England at that point had a long and storied history of colonization. It wouldn't be surprising if this didn't leak into this story. Doesn't make it bad, or good. Just is.
"My Johnny has been kicked out of over 100 schools but it's the schools' fault." You don't get kicked out of all the Dwarven Realms and hunted by the Eldar, because you did nothing wrong.
" 'E wooden do nuffin like that, 'e's a good boy, 'e is". Think of this said in a voice like Eliza Doolittle from my fair lady......and what you have before you is every Eastend, Essex and sarf Lunnon mother blinded by motherly love. And for your information, I've met a few of these "mothers" and boy, do they EVER deserve the quotation marks. Their likkow darlings could murder someone right in front of them and they'd deny it to their last breath....🙄
Maybe, just maybe they acted the way they did because of discrimination. I mean seriously, how would You act if people treated you different because you were smaller, or deformed in some way. Tolkien seemed to have his own prejudices like other people. I can see why they didn't like elves. Typical of elves to shoot first and not bother to act in a manner befitting a supposedly intelligent creature.
I think the Petty dwarf represented what Tolkien described as the minority group of many ethnics that are oppressed and/or looked down upon such as the natives, Jews and more across the world. The way Elves dehumanizing the Petty Dwarfs like animals is what the Nazi Party treat the minorities the same way. I guess Tolkien wants a slight mention of it in his notes but it was probably too controversial for to put in the books outright.
The Elves took over the Petty Dwarves home and forced them to remodel their home to serve the Elves purposes? That's diabolical, I don't care what justification the Elves had, I'm team Petty Dwarf.
Ulmo directed Finrod to Nargothrond, so it was clearly the intended purpose of the realm. The dwarves were therefore squatters in a home never meant for them
Most elves don't but Noldor do. There are instances in Silmarillion of them hunting and eating game, though Tolkien didn't elaborate on the matter much.
@stalhandske9649 see I thought that but I sincerely don't remember Noldor eating game. But thinking about it now, Orome exists so hunting and eating meat can't be entirely frowned upon
@kauetadaieski3131 doesn't make them meat eaters but since this was already clarified in a much more useful way, I'd ask what the point of your comment is
The MERP role playing module Raiders of Cardolan, resurrected the petty-dwarves and had a small number still alive in the Eryn Vorn during the Third Age.
"Petty" as in "small," or "Petty" as in "holding grudges"? I guess the answer is "Yes."
Petty (petit?) as in lesser.
Yep those Dwarves petty!
I just love the idea of people trying to talk to them and they mock them in a high pitched voice. Repeated efforts to talk with them leads to repeated mockery, eventually culminating in conflict; as they're being killed, the petty dwarves are still mocking them.
"oH nO, what are you gonna do, Kill us?"
*kills them*
"Wooow, killing us? Sooo mature, sO cIvIlIzEd"
@@Your-Least-Favorite-StrangerDwarves on helium?
"You, turned away from the suffering of my people!"
These guys remind me of Gollum. They're wretched and dark hearted but I can't help but pity them. They were dealt a bad hand in life and that's all they know.
Perhaps they were an early attempt in the corruption of the dwarves by Morgoth? Either way theirs is a sad story 😔
Morgoth was imprisoned during this time, and Sauron was hiding. This is all on the Dwarves and Elves.
@@lisboah In the period between the awakening of the Elves and the Battle of the Powers (YT 1050-1099), Melkor had not yet been captured by the Valar and was in Utumno. It is possible that the dwarves will awaken during this period after the awakening of the elves. Thus, the petty-dwarves may be an example of a failed attempt to corrupt the dwarves, as Melkor did with the elves. The idea that Melkor could not corrupt the dwarves, just as Sauron could not corrupt them with his rings of power, is compatible with Tolkien's cyclical storytelling approach. This may be why they were exiled from their clan.
When our gracious host asked for topic suggestions a few weeks ago, I suggested the petty-dwarves. I'm glad our great friend took up my suggestion. I asked for the petty-dwarves because they are a bit of an outlier to the rest of Middle Earth. While villainous, they are also sympathetic. I was curious about what insights Yoystan had to share about the petty-dwarves--and he did not disappoint. As always, great work--and Yoystan offered an important lesson. Great stuff here.
Seven of the Petty-dwarves fled to southern Germany and later met a princess who fled from her evil step mother who had an enchanted mirror ;)
Great content as always
*sweats in other Germanic dwarvish folklore
Maybe: Tolkien does make frequent use of the number 7 in his writings about the (seven clans, seven rings, seven kings named Durin, etc.), and it's probably a deliberate joke on his part.
100% my head canon. THE Seven Dwarves were definitely Petty-dwarves. Their only associations and loyalties were to family, as they were all brothers, with no fealty to the seven dwarven clans. They worked to for their own self-enrichment, and were ready to kill Snow White on the first meeting with her, but she was hot, and she did their house work, so they accepted her.
Grumpy was the only petty dwarf in that bunch.
Thank you all for watching! Check out maps at Rinus.art (use code MOTW24 for 20% off through February):
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While Aulë made the Dwarves resistant to domination, there's no reason to think they were completely immune. My suspicion is that Melkor managed to corrupt some Dwarves but being dissatisfied with the results, he ignored them afterwards, and these Dwarves became the Petty-dwarves.
The dwarves were indeed corruptable: the ones who bore the seven rings of power resisted being enthralled to Sauron like the Nazgul; but they were corrupted by the rings in other way, namely by becoming greedy and selfish
Therefore, your theory makes sense to me. Melkor probably abandoned the petty-dwarves because they weren't obedient enough to be useful to him
Great theory! Would fit right in there with the rest Tolkien's treatments!
I second that motion!!! 🤠👍
Honestly I never knew dwarves had outcasts in their society. Thank you for expanding my knowledge!
Despite the fact it's one of the least developed parts of the Middle-Earth lore, dwarf stuff still carry enough flavor to be interesting in its own right. Hats off to Tolkien for managing to make it so
I sometimes find details i didn't know about the lore in your videos. It's great.
You have one of the best LOTR channels on TH-cam. Keep it up my guy.
Awesome! Rock and stone! The dwarves need their history told from Durin the 1st to Durin the 7th.
Another example of people getting thrown out of their homes and then being called evil/mad for being vengeful. (The Dunlendings are another.)
What makes the Petty Dwarves' story even more tragic is that neither Morgoth nor Sauron had a part in that (unless you count Melkor's role during the Ainulindalë).
It's very hard to criticize Mim for his actions, when the peoples that shunned and hunted down his people were thriving, while his people slowly fell to extinction.
I believe that among Hobbits, it was the Stoors who were rumored to have some Dwarvish blood in their veins. I've wondered whether it was more specifically the Petty-Dwarves who interbred with them. One can see why Hobbits might take to Petty-Dwarves and vice versa. So perhaps the Stoors were the last vestige of Petty-Dwarf DNA.
I did not know this! And I love it! Although it does not surprise me😂 It seems like hobbits are pretty much just the ancestors of all the free peoples😂😂😂
Damn it I almost missed another dwarf video, still excellent work Yoystan
Mellon! We do not name Morgoth Bauglir by his original name "Melkor".
Edit: I must emphasis that petty dwarves were black hearted folk. But I refuse to believe that Sindar ever ate them.
Also, for me the kinslaying of Feanor was the worst deed by any elf, along with Maeglin who betrayed Gondolin.
This was more like war between petty dwarves and the Sindar.
Thanks for an interesting video about the petty dwarves. Your videos is always fun to watch.
Good video Yoystan. Some details I was not aware of. Do you recall where was stated the Petty-dwarves started violence towards the elves?
Thanks Rinus! I believe it was the HoME series, perhaps the Peoples of Middle-earth?
"Hadn't finished his lore, indeed": Tolkien's existing work never gave me quite enough reason to hate the Petty-Dwarves, and they were at least as badly sinned against as they were sinning. Their "crimes" of sharing their culture hardly seemed to merit either exile or being hunted, and many of their later acts seemed forced on them by desperation, at least in part.
My primary reaction to them was pity: a dying people who wer alone, lost, and impoverished. A description of the "bandoned smithies" and emptiness of their old settlement, when Mim returned ot it, almsot brings a tear to my eye, to say nothing of seeing his sons killed. Indeed, their final state has always reminded me of waht some say are the fates of all fairy-folk in the world, if indeed they exist, and that makes the image doubly sad.
My suspicion is that the Petty Dwarves are dwarves that Morgoth and Sauron got their hands on and messed with. The dwarvish template is probably too sturdy and resilient to let them do more than just make them crappier dwarves, similar to how the rings of power could only marginally affect the dwarves.
If they were released or escaped from captivity, they were probably shunned by the unaltered dwarves for being “tainted” by the dark powers and driven west away from their homelands, and this ostracism may be why the don’t revere the traditions of their people.
The reason the petty dwarves shared features is probably because they had been interbreeding with each other for a while.
Honor is both a virtue and a luxury. The Petty Dwarves lacked honor in their dealings with others, but then again, honor doesn't exactly get you far when you're turned out by your own people, hunted for sport, or being displaced from your home. I can see why the Petty Dwarves would harbor a lot of resentment towards outsiders and generally choose to act for their own benefit whenever possible. However, that simply ensures they will continue to be treated as enemies and outcasts.
Tolkien seems to put a high value on honor, belonging and brotherhood. The Petty Dwarves seem like a sad tale of what happens when people are deprived of these things.
Maybe Iluvatar has the best and most pure creations. If Dwarves were created by Aule to be a mimic of the thus-far-unborn Elves, and Yavanna created the Ents to be the same, then the bastardized byproducts might be the petty dwarves and huorns (also mean-spirited and boundless rejects).
Just a thought…
No offense to Tolkien, but I think he just loved mythology so much that he wanted to shoehorn the dwarves from the Sigurd story into his legendarium. He might have had more than one reason for it, but you can definitely see the similarities between the two stories. Turin and his men slay one of the dwarf king’s sons, just as Loki, Odin and Heimdall slay one of Hreidmar’s sons, Otr. They both go about earning a ransom, though in different ways. Also, the name Mim is the name of the dwarf Regin in Wagner’s works. My personal interpretation of why the petty dwarves are not fleshed out is that he didn’t want to paint the seven dwarf clans in an overly negative light, and so he had to come up with a reason on why they were separate, which he may have never found the time to explain further.
I don’t think the Sylvan elves ate petty dwarves…I think it’s similar to how the Rohirrim hunted the Druedain, maybe for sport or for keeping their population in check. But maybe Rohirrim ate Druedain as well, who knows?
Even in the “Real” world, accusations of cannibalism where there is none is a known “thing.” Take the destruction of the whaling ship Essex (destroyed by a whale !! ) for example. Survivors could’ve safely gone West, but they were scared of rumoured “canibal” tribes. And even outside the Pacific, some tribes called other tribes “cannibals” to reinforce their “otherness” and smear their reputations. Of course some tribes have practiced funerary cannibalism, and some other tribes have done a sort of cannibalism that adds insult to injury. Anyway, that’s real-world stuff. But look-and note well-how we learn about real practices and social things by studying myth !! Tolkien wrote of the these petty Dwarves getting eaten to illustrate & elucidate how they were viewed LOW almost like animals: and what that says about the “eaters,” AND those getting “eaten,” plus the the apocryphal ‘not-100%-sure-if-it’s-true’ aspect of the rumour/story is STRAIGHT out of Ethnography & Ethnology 101. Golly, I love Tolkien as a writer. From my Dad reading the Hobbit to me after work in his knee in 1976 to today as I write this comment about a Tolkien-mythos component I’d never noticed before. Life-long fan of that man. Literally.
@@miahconnell23 That’s a good point! Tolkien has got to be next-level IQ, we’re just lucky we had such a brilliant person who also liked dragons and elves. I’m more and more grateful for that combination
@@pearcebishop1162 Where did my reply go ? It seems you read it (thank you)…. Many of my comments have been disappearing or getting zero clicks in the last 8 months … But I don’t say anything mean to anyone, and I don’t say anything controversial on YT comments, because we all know how comments sections can get… 🤷♀️
The story of Mim and Turin are more about pride, forgiveness, and repentance. The dangers of clinging to vengeance and how the lack of forgiveness causes ruin and death
Man, these guys have so many questions about them...And I hope sometime we get some answers, not from Tolkien, Edith or their Children Though!!!
Thanks for this Interesting video on the Petty Dwarves, *(I am going to soon check out the Podcast Episode soon after this)* these guys are so interesting, Until how did Gandalf became the White...Marion Baggins Out!!!
You left out my favorite clan of dwarves the dourhands from Lord of the rings online. Skorgrim has abs and a big hammer and looks like he was designed to be edgy so it's great 😂
I've always felt saddened by how the elves treated the petty dwarves. It definitely feels like a stain on their resumé. The elves are meant to be a force for good with a great understanding of the natural world. In this, they failed. Miserably. I've often felt that it was out of character for most of elven kind.
Yes, the kinslaying at Acqualondë and the madness of Féanor and his sons was terrible, but that was driven by Morgoth and Ungoliant.
Murdering dwarves seems so out of character that I wonder if Tolkien ever regretted this storyline? 😊❤😊
He was really writing about us, and even the finest of us can do evil.
@DavidOfWhitehills Unfortunately, true 😫
Lol the petty dwarves drew first blood.
Hunting them doesn't imply they ate them. People have hunted wolves, coyote, etc. because the predators are attacking people or their livestock. The dwarves were ambushing elves after all.
Exactly
From memories ( was it in UT or elsewhere ) The Sindar hunted the petty dwarves like animals , because the Petty dwarves were sneaking in the night , murdering elves and even eating some of them , not the other way around .
Thanks for the video
Petty dwarves still live every convention when dorkish humans dress up to try to look like dwarves but end up looking like ... badly dressed dorks = Petty dwarves.
I’ve always thought this was an extremely sad part of the story. A bleak episode for elves, dwarves & men.
One thing to recall, is that the Silmarillion should not be assumed to be told by a reliable narrator. It is a story.
Nice work dude thanks
I wonder if the slaying of Petty Dwarves by the Sindar could be some form of punishment towards Aulë from Iluvatar for attempting to create life of his own. We know this attempt at life resulted in the natural ill will between Elves and Dwarves. So maybe these exiled, lesser dwarves, would be naturally viewed by the Eldar as something needing to be exterminated by the will of Iluvatar, but as a subconscious thought, not something at the forefront of their minds. Like I don’t think the Elves were thinking, “kill these petty dwarves in the name of Iluvatar” but rather it was a natural feeling for the need to slay them. What do you think?
The elves were being constantly ambushed by an ugly species they never saw, It was a conflict, but the dwarves were simply too weak.
Ah yes, I enjoyed making a petty-dwarf kingdom in the ck2 middle earth mod
Very well done, I always enjoy this channel,probably the best channel on everything Erü.
The idea that they're inherently evil and "just brought it upon themselves" wouldn't sit well with me.
What I imagine is that the petty dwarves had different ideas than other dwarves. Whether they were exiled or chose to leave, they went west to make their own life. Even if they waylaid elves first, it certainly wouldn't justify hunting them like beasts... and since the open violence seemed to stop when the elves recognized them as intelligent suggests maybe the history was written by the victors...
Theirs seems to be a sad story. Too different to fit in with other dwarves. First contact with elves was horrifically violent. Forced to build a fortress for a king they never asked for into their own homes. And ultimately allowed to just... die out. Regardless of their part to play in this, I can see why they'd be so embittered.
I imagine that the Petty Dwarves were banished probably because they did something the other Dwarves deemed particularly wicked . It is just my speculation, I think they rejected Aulë and started a cult of Melkor
Given that the elves who made contact with the Blue Mountain dwarfs were likely guards on the periphery of elvish territory, these guards also probably met the petty dwarfs too and hunted them. That’d be awkward sticking your hand out to a Firebeard to shake and thinking “hey he looks kinda like those things we...shot in the forest...whoops.”
When u said first they hunt them like beasts I thought there is no way they ate them no way but the thought just won't leave my head
Those AI images really stand out like a sore thumb from the rest. I really hope these haven't been included intentionally. I understand that its a very tempting technology to use, but even if we ignore the more potential large-scale implications of using this technology, not to mention its already strongly negative impact on actual artists, they're just so...creepy-looking. There's so much actual art there to use, and even if they're not Tolkien-related, they do the job. Audiences, especially on videos like these, are much more forgiving about these things then one might imagine. At the risk of sounding corny, I say don't fall for the temptation, and continue on as before. That is already more than enough.
I bet the petty Dwarves are that group of outcasts that nobody wants associations with. Not even Seagol would want to join them. lol
Hope we get to see them in a future game or movie
The only Petty Dwarf I knew of was Tom, I think we was a musician...
Here’s my question: what did Tolkien understand about Britain’s history of colonization and its ‘relations’ with indigenous peoples? And most importantly, how did he feel about it?
He is seen in many regards to be remarkably progressive, even for a learned professor, given his era. But everyone’s got blind spots.
So: does this aspect of the Elven/Dwarven joint history flow from a progressive understanding of how Brits treated indigenous peoples who may have either started off or later become belligerent? Is it an unthinking reflection of British history, with no real insight into the Petty-Dwarves’ natural rights and equality as children of the One?
Or - the least likely option - is that parallel pure coincidence?
You Will find answers if you read the akaballeth, and all of the wars between rohirrim and dunledings or numenoreans colonialist and the human natives of middle earth.
@@jorgepalomo6417 I’ve read Akallabeth. My point is exactly that I want his perspective spelled out because too many different interpretations are possible - if not of how much he understood, certainly of how he felt about it. I want the nuance of his feelings on the matter.
I think Tolkien was trying to compare these two dwarfs like how mankind has evolved with like homo sapiens and Neanderthals. Or how any other people have been invaded by others.
It was just a draft. Going too deep into drafts always brings up the bullshit Balrog
Could Tolkien's concept of "petty dwarfs" be inspired by what the folklore refers to as "gnomes"?
So are Dark Elves actually evil Elves in service to the Dark Lords?
If you could make a video on that I'd like to see it.
No elf was ever evil, never followed Melkor. Dark elves simply mean theh did not see the light of the trees.
Hey another Dwarf video 👊🏻🙏🏼🪓
I mean they did their bad stuff but I always feel bad when the elf hunted them 😢
England at that point had a long and storied history of colonization. It wouldn't be surprising if this didn't leak into this story. Doesn't make it bad, or good. Just is.
Tolkien idea about petty dwarves might be originated from the red indians.
Stone-feet!
Stonefeet!
The Sindar were attacked first and did not know about any other speaking people.
And they did not eat them lol
"My Johnny has been kicked out of over 100 schools but it's the schools' fault."
You don't get kicked out of all the Dwarven Realms and hunted by the Eldar, because you did nothing wrong.
" 'E wooden do nuffin like that, 'e's a good boy, 'e is". Think of this said in a voice like Eliza Doolittle from my fair lady......and what you have before you is every Eastend, Essex and sarf Lunnon mother blinded by motherly love. And for your information, I've met a few of these "mothers" and boy, do they EVER deserve the quotation marks. Their likkow darlings could murder someone right in front of them and they'd deny it to their last breath....🙄
Maybe, just maybe they acted the way they did because of discrimination. I mean seriously, how would You act if people treated you different because you were smaller, or deformed in some way. Tolkien seemed to have his own prejudices like other people.
I can see why they didn't like elves. Typical of elves to shoot first and not bother to act in a manner befitting a supposedly intelligent creature.
😍😍😍✅✅✅
I think the Petty dwarf represented what Tolkien described as the minority group of many ethnics that are oppressed and/or looked down upon such as the natives, Jews and more across the world. The way Elves dehumanizing the Petty Dwarfs like animals is what the Nazi Party treat the minorities the same way. I guess Tolkien wants a slight mention of it in his notes but it was probably too controversial for to put in the books outright.
Leave you liberal crap out of Tolkien books.
The Elves took over the Petty Dwarves home and forced them to remodel their home to serve the Elves purposes? That's diabolical, I don't care what justification the Elves had, I'm team Petty Dwarf.
Ulmo directed Finrod to Nargothrond, so it was clearly the intended purpose of the realm. The dwarves were therefore squatters in a home never meant for them
@@kostaxilikakis5 "i committed genocide cos a god told me to" well fck your god then
The Elves are Iluvatar's chosen.
@@fiddleback1568 1) nope, Iluvatar intended for Men to ultimately rule the world, but didn't really ask for genocide. 2) way to miss the point
@kongspeaks4778 If Elves do it, it's not genocide.
I dont think elves eat meat other than fish
Most elves don't but Noldor do. There are instances in Silmarillion of them hunting and eating game, though Tolkien didn't elaborate on the matter much.
@stalhandske9649 see I thought that but I sincerely don't remember Noldor eating game. But thinking about it now, Orome exists so hunting and eating meat can't be entirely frowned upon
Lol read a book, elves eat meat all the time, even in the Hobbit, the silvan elves.
The Eldar are hunters.
@kauetadaieski3131 doesn't make them meat eaters but since this was already clarified in a much more useful way, I'd ask what the point of your comment is
@@shanethewatcher6163oh yes, silvan elves eating meat doesnt mean they eat meet. Nice logic right there.
Elves do not hunt for just fun either.
The MERP role playing module Raiders of Cardolan, resurrected the petty-dwarves and had a small number still alive in the Eryn Vorn during the Third Age.
They're complicated and pitiful.