Feixiao is able to 40k PF and 0 cycle Phase 1 of this MOC cycle. If she's a god at ST and still performs at the level of other peak AOE characters, it'd take everything to powercreep her lmao. Meanwhile, Acheron is 💀💀💀 Can't even 0 cycle Hoolay using a 5-cost E2S1 team (find me one, you can't xD)
@@kingsimba9513 I think she is still decent, you can't say a character si dead when you can get 3 stars in all endgame content. Fei Xiao and FF are stronger right now but they will fall eventually in 3.X. I think Fei Xiao will fall faster than FF just because she is ST. But falling down doesn't mean becoming bad, just less efficient.
@@Beanichudot is a different case ,if you can't see that hoyo is purposely saving dot for future main (like 2.0 to 3.0 for superbreak) Main of future then idk man
@@eliazbrosas1565 ya man I also thinks that they might add new path just the way they added dendro in genshin and we might get new meta or playstyle out of it
@@Indian_gae_boiiit’s a turn based gacha and apparently that’s just common in these specific games. Genshin and others have power creep but they don’t shill the content so hard towards one specific meta that other characters become seemingly obsolete. Like a 5.x character arlecchino is a busted character but her 1.x predecessor hu Tao still performs really damn well (genshin)
I don't think you should reed change log before looking at the tier list. I think you should look at the tier list and then the reasoning and not the oposite.
people need to relies don't take tier lists as total fact, these are their opinions you can decide who to use, i test units myself i agree and disagree what these tier lists say in this game.
@@kyotheman69 Except these lists are based on actual data (average MOC cycles and AS/PF scores). Acheron has been middling for a while now so her downgrade was more than justified. And before anyone discounts Prydwen's data, it should be noted that they are quite comparable to what you'd see in the CN version, so there is a degree of credibility here. For anyone interested, Pokke noted this similarity at around 7:12 in his recent CN video.
@kingsimba9513 Acheron is just facing abysses that are not designed for her When they're bored of pushing superbreak they will kill off Firefly by making toughness bar lock* enemies come back
@@jawbonedis that's always going to happen bro, 3.0 characters will powercreep all our current ones, 4.0 will powercreep all the 3.0 ones, the cycle is everlasting.
Hp pools have gotten so massive that top teirs a few patches ago start to fall off Also since starrail decided to start replacing niches (ghallagher and HMC for linghsa and fugue) instead of expand on niches, is so cringe and make case worse for dps units if there willing to replace supports that quickly
It is crazy tbh. I dont understand why anyone would whale in a situation where a character could be made obsolete in a few patches, other than rolling addiction, lol
@@vangoghsseveredearbecause whaling is probably the best way to keep characters from being powercrept. E0 DHIL isn’t doing anything crazy now but E2 is still keeping up with the top tiers. E0S0 Acheron and no Jiaqiou is probably one of the worst limited dps I’ll be honest but E2 or E0S1 with JQ can still crush endgame. Whaling keeps their dps floor higher
I agree, they could have done so much more with so many characters, taking fugue as an example, yall just had a fire nihility? well here comes another fire nihility for superbreak, not even physical or quantum or ice.
In all fairness Acheron isn't performing as she did before. The two caveats to this is that Hoyo has been shilling super break and follow up so incredibly hard the last few patches that it's no wonder they are outperforming everyone, and I have all the big 3 now with very good builds and teams. The second caveat is that Acheron has a very special part of her kit (stack based ult) that means she can be revitalized at any time, easily. As long as the almighty Hoyo are willing to make it so. It's a lot harder for someone like Jingliu to regain meta relevance (tho it hurts to say, mine is E1S1 and almost never used).
Nah.. skill issue.. my Firefly team is way better using her "only" team with HMC, Ruan Mei and Gallagher, yet my e1s1 Acheron team with Bronya, Jiaqiou and Gepard (yes, fcking Gepard) is doing waaaaaayyy better in all game modes, even in pure fiction..!! Even if the content is made for fua and break, my Acheron is still doing better than my Firefly.. anyone saying she fell off is just a skill issue at this point..
also a thing to keep in mind is that this is raiden. she’s already had relic sets tailored for her, a support tailored for her, and is the only dps with all offensive traces. i do think they’ll keep her at least somewhat relevant with new releases
Also, something to keep in mind is that Prydwen's list is E0S0, which affects a lot of DPS like Acheron and Rappa who have some kit-specific interactions on their LC. This generally makes DPS units far more susceptible to powercreep on their list. So a lot of players that will claim "XYZ DPS hasn't fallen off because mine can still clear in 1 cycle" need to remember that the LC makes a big difference, multiple LCs across the team makes a huge difference, and E1/E2 can sometimes change the entire game for a unit.
Yeah but as people have brought up in other comment sections or videos, the lack of LC also hurts Feixiao immeasurably. To the point where she will start to do worse with her premium team than Firefly, Acheron, etc, against everything but specifically Hoolay
@@Paul_Frank what, one of feixiaos best lightcones is the 5 star herta hunt lc, its literally her third best lc and completely free, and feixiao with her premium team team but without her lc is much much better than acheron without her lc but with premium team
The owner of Prydwen did mention this and believe Acheron and Yunli with their sig are all t0. Acheron’s sig has like 90% ownership rate which is crazy. But e0s0 Acheron should move down because her sig lc makes her much better to play. Without it, it’s a bit rough which has always been the case.
what made me kind of pissed off with Acheron she's trash without her LC, LC is such huge power boost to her kit, wasn't happy this be thing going forward, lucky we get characters don't really need them they are fine with f2p or 4 star options.
She won't SAVE DoT, but she'll likely work well with them considering more breaks = more DoTs, plus I think she also grants Def shred, which is useful for DoT too
For my E2S1 Acheron it's closer to 600-700k in 2 seconds agains like 3 enemies (not even 5 and not even using Jiaoqiu). Team i run is Sparkle + SW + Aventurine. Sure its high Investment but if you compare that to FF who is also reliant on her E2 and Ruan Mei to really become busted and Feixiao who ideally also wants a full 5* team and ideally her weapon and at least E1 i dont see how Acheron is supposed to be worse. Sure current buffs favor Feixio FuA and FF break but the fact that Acheron still performs similair shows just how strong she is overall. Not just that but both FF teams and Feixiao teams deal their damage spread across multiple characters while Acheron does almost the whole teams damage on her own. I also dont get the point of Feixiaos 4* options supposedly being better then Acherons. Both have incredible free options but still fall off noticeably if you lack the dedicated 5* teammates. Still they are plenty strong and perfectly capable without those dedicated 5*.
@@blackbutler8182even at E0S0 Acheron with Sparkle is actually better than having two Nihility to activate her talent.. this has been extensively tested during her release and a complete shocker to the testers..
@@blackbutler8182not hating but, this proves there point if her damage is this dependent on Eliodons and LC then fexiao makes her an even better option for f2p and whales and her damage is can be better than Acheron with 4 star supports
I love my girlie acheron i have her e2s1 + e1s1 jiaoqiu just cause she's one of my mains but when you consider that these tierlist go off e0s0 numbers (acheron is a whole different character with and without her lc) and that the latest content has been all catering to fua and break it does add up. You have characters like fei and ff in t0 who despite having cracked eidolons still perform insanely well even at e0s0 while acheron on the other hand makes you feel the difference
This was bound to happen tbh. This is a team game after all Simple mechanic changes or just new enemies can affect the whole meta If they wanted to, they could bring back Sam and Bronya fights that lock weakness. This would only slightly decrease FF and break character play rate. For FuA, what if they introduce an enemy Yunli that hits back for every hit it’s taken or a DoT that ignores shield and damages the character only. This would hurt Feixiao and Aventurine a bit
This. This entirely. They can literally make anyone irrelevant at any time if they so desire. I think in due time everything will have a use but for now we’ve got 4 archetypes and that’s all people have to base things off of
Dont trust anyone even mr pokke bruh. Trust your self , what you want to gacha. Your tier list is better than other people, trust me. Since this character in this game get power creep very fast. Just gacha what you want, dont listen to other people opinion about tier list. Mihoyo always mihoyo, dps ver 1 become trash in ver 2, dps ver 2 (acheron/firefly) will become trash in ver 3. Why? Because its mihoyo.
Yes, its very funny to see many players compare and ranking all characters. Then they say mid liu, mid Yuan etc. That's fucking stupid, when you can clear MoC with those garbage characters then its still decent to play them. Of course that you need high investment on them, but its really fun and challenging when you can clear end game content with them 😂
If you are a simp, then don't insult other charas cus when ur favorite chara got powercreep its your time to got insulted by other. Its simple like that, not everything is eternal like tier list etc. Now ur character T0 but in the future? T0,5? T1? T2? or T3? Its casual game, just enjoy ur game, build ur charas, and don't look at game community for tier list etc.
Side note anyone else noticed that all the break dps' are not technically "Human" Firefly= Testube baby Boothill= Cyborg Xueyi=Puppet Rappa= Testube baby.
Blade hyper actually beated hoolay on my account with a sustainerless welt/rm acheron team on first side, the amount of attacks hoolay does actually helps the stacks a lot
The Prydwn tier list is so cooked bro, their priorities are all over the place. They judge some characters by their own (the character's) merits, judge some others by the merits of their available teammates, judge others by the merits of the archetype they belong or dont belong too, judge some by the damage they deal, judge some by how flexible they are FUCKING PICK ONE AND BE CONSISTENT. Good fucking lord
Yep, Feixiao is one of the best examples of this, and is not bcz her, is bcz FUA, but well, they see the prdwn opinion like the HSR laws in terms of use, but ok, just let still playing and show the real tiers by our accounts, if we dont do that, they will ignore our actual opinion even if is objectively better
Every dps falls off eventually. Better to pull your favorite dps and their BiS supports. Because the people who are thinking Feixiao and Firefly won't get powercrept before 3.5 because they have better supports and better scalings, remember Jingliu? You don't? Yeah, me too🤣. I'm pulling acheron because she has reliable damage, and her technique is a really good QoL.
I will also say: every dps will “fall off” (meaning drop from godlike to great/good) but you know what doesn’t fall off? Harmony units. We are playing Harmony Support Rail.
@kingsimba9513 then you basically didn't comprehend the vid cn anwlaysis is definitely different from prydwen at least for pure fiction. cn doesn5 rate argenti as high as prydwen does they also consider sit ligh5 cone compared to prydwen . so basically you're either lying or quite mistaken
@@christophermauro-barias7451 given she sheer number of characters and team combinations in this game, these are still relatively minor differences. If one side weights PF performance slightly differently than the other that's a subjective judgement and there isn't really a right answer.
@@christophermauro-barias7451 Not sure why you're being hostile over such a mild comment but ok. And I was referring to how characters placed relative to each other in terms of average cycles clears/appearance rates (even when accounting for sigs and eidolons). Mr. Pokke even comes to the same conclusion I did at 7:12 in the most recent CN video: "For both the EN and CN, their average cycles are exceedingly similar" Don't tell me you're unable to comprehend simple arithmetic?
The fact that it takes less than a year before a character falls is insane and imo characters should at least last year before falling off which also means 5star characters being released at such a fast pace should slow down
@@suilugferenthon6683I don’t get this take. Are you lot suddenly just unable to clear end game modes with your farmed out Acheron? Just because Prydwen declared some shit on their tier list? Sounds like using tier lists as an excuse for skill issue to me
Thats not really insane rate though compared to the character releases and Acheron is still really strong even when MOC is not buffing her dmg right now.
@@MrFrexys that’s not it I’m just saying that it’s insane because I used to play dbz dokkan battle and characters in that game even take a year before TH-camrs or tier list start to say a character falls off that’s all
I think Jiaoqiu is unironically slept on and is good for more than just Acheron though he is her dedicated support. I skipped cause I was saving for another character and don’t have Acheron but all credit due to- he’s really damn good
21:35 I actually intentionally run huohuo over one of the break sustains with boothill, but thats because I have E1 huohuo which pushes my boothill over 200 speed in battle so thats probably an edge case.
Imagine thinking Acheron is on the same level as Dr. Ratio. Someone at Prydwen burned down the whole Kitchen. I'm ok with her being T0.5 but not that she is equal to Dr. Ratio.
That's the major point, moving her down to T0.5? Fine, meta is not catered towards her, her team is still incomplete etc etc... But they should've moved down every single other DPS under her by half a tier as well because that's how things are. E0S0 Acheron on same tier of E0S0 Ratio...what a joke, that guys sucks balls at E0S0
@@nikumilotic1333 he needs e1s1 topaz to even be able to proc his follow ups which are his major source of damage, IPC team is nowhere near fei, firefly, acheron or boothill without e1s1 topaz.
Boothill is still consistently 1-2 shooting bosses and they adamantly REFUSE to put my man in t0 moc while FF is still t0 in both moc AND as. Disgraceful.
This is the first time I disagree with the majority of their changes Acheron, even with the second side being against her mechanics wise, she still cleared faster on average than some people above equal to or above her in tier. Ofc Feixiao cleared fastest because she has Aventurine against Hoolay kek. Across both sides, Acheron did great at side 1, and still fine at 2. Saying "X character is good with multiple teams" also doesn't make sense because they explicitly say they're going with each units strongest team Seele going down that far is something I honestly can't believe given how fast her clear rate always is on CN, her Eidolons alone arent strong enough to make this "oh they count e6 and Prydwen doesn’t" Blade being the same tier as Jingliu also sounds like omega cope, but what do I know Kafka and BS being lowered due to no dots makes sense, but then you check the CN clear rate and they're faster than Boothill so rip
you disagree with acheron because you don't actually realize how she was supposed to be ranked. Everyone took her being T0 as granted, yet nobody realize that the tier list is ranked based on e0s0, that's why acheron always should've been T0.5, and prydwen only drops her down now because of the pressure from feixiao, which is a mistake on their end.
for me it look like feixiao is not better than acheron , but her team is better than acheron ones , it's not the same thing ( hello my DoT bros who will never have an entiere real team )
Petition for Hoyo to make DoT be Damage over Time instead of Damage over Turn. DoT damages needs to scale with action value instead of enemie's turn. If all of us decide to speak up, Hoyo might change something. Make DoT great again!
They have to completely rewrite the code for half the game all the events and their buffs and upcoming content Too late to bully them into doing that But could've worked if people were angry about in 1.0 to 1.5
Nah that list was never made for me ^^ im totally aware of the Fact an E0S0 Acheron is Garbage and never belong that high on the List. Thats the Reason i went for E2S1 bc by then she is on a complete differend Level.
@DantoriusD my e0s0 is hitting like 400k+ consistently in MoC, sure I've admittedly gotten some good relics but still I think calling her garbage is crazy
37:13 The comment wasnt wrong tho, he said that you wont be able to 0 cycle but you can still clear Moc. Also the comment mentioned her lc, something that prydwen doesnt take into account
Pwyrden would have to be fair. If they take Acheron Ediolons into consideration then every chatacter will also take eidolons into consideration. Firefly and DHIL will also rise for example.
It also doesn´t help that there´s no lightning weakness, single target damage is prefered, and enemies are weak to Wind (Fei), Fire (Ass), Phys (Bobin).
Yeah but being off element is a big detriment to every character though. Acheron can still easily 0 cycle the first half as she is on element with shared hp boss. Feixiao would struggle to get 0 cycle against them without more investment meanwhile she defeats Hoolay with ease. No reason Acheron shouldn't still be tier 0 when she still has the best aoe dmg in the game right now. 2.6 we are getting another boss that Acheron can 0 cycle at E0S0 as well as its 5 enemies with shared hp the best situation for Acheron.
@@kennethyoung7457I mean saying she is the “best AoE dmg dealer in the game” as reasoning for her being T0 doesn’t make sense. She has fallen behind competition and thats a fact going by prydwen’s own data, like even last 3 MoCs she had the same avg clear score as Ratio again according to prydwen themselves (and now you have people dunking on Ratio when he is in fact the same level as her).
People forget that MOC is a glorified advertisement for the most recent gimmick. It's like, no shit Acheron will fall behind when Hoyoverse isn't trying to sell her to you.
37:03 I'm not sure why he highlighted my comment. Acheron didn't fall off completely this patch. All I said is that she won't get powercrept so hard to be unusable which is true. It's quite obvious she won't be the best DPS forever, but both T0 and T0.5 mean that these units can brute force every MoC. Probably won't be able to 0 cycle without her LC, but that doesn't really matter in end.
I just main acheron because i love her, obsessing over meta dps wise will ruin your account as they get replaced, just get the dps you love and call it a day honestly
Acheron already dropped below Yunli, not on the list but in performance, people just are slow to acknowledge it because so many dismissed her when she came out.
Yeah We’ll ignore ignore that most PF, AS and MoC since her release have had physical weak sides with FuA/counter major and minor buffs and absolutely nothing for Acheron yet Acheron still keeps pace with top dps
@@MrFrexys I would hope the 4th best dps keeps pace. The puppets are a plenty good opponent for Acheron, certainly not "absolutely nothing" and Yunli is still overall performing better this MoC.
After playing Metaphor ReFantazio, the way to make more “difficult” enemies now is straight up just making AAA JRPG level Boss mechanics. We are GOOD on HP. In fact imo Hoolay was a bit overtuned. Now make the actual fights more interesting. Giving bosses more HP just means the characters DESIGNED with Bosses with less HP in mind will gradually fall off. Make boss fight designs more interesting and difficult to make current and some past DPSs still viable. Give players a set goal or side goals in each boss fight rather than make the boss a bloated HP sponge. EDIT: They are honestly doing this already with the Echo of War bosses. Those bosses have unique and fun mechanics. Just put those mfers in MoC, not just AS, rather than bloating HP of Elites
Isn't Echo of War just a HP sponge? Don't really remember something special about these bosses, break weakness, kill them. And imo, Hoyo doesn't have any intention to do something interesting in Star Rail from gameplay perspective.
Man, with how fast the damage ceiling is increasing every version, if Hoyo decides to one day release a "Super DoT" character, then you can be certain this archetype is going to go extinct in 5 patches
The next best future Acheron team, Jiao Xiao (resolution shines as a pearl), Fugue (Ruan Mei LC/DDD or SW LC) and Aventurine (Universal Market/ Landau or Gepard LC) and building Acheron with break effect on top of her regular build and drop tons of speed in both fugue and Jiao Xiao to make sure they can get several turns.
Ratio probably hasn’t gone down yet because his IP3 team is really good against those 12-1 puppets. He’s not really getting any use now because Feixiao stole his whole team, but if you do use him, he still works really well there. He’ll probably drop off in a couple patches, but I think it makes sense to not move him yet.
entering midcheron era. kingyuan mains rise up. in 2.7 we will all laugh at them why tf is ratio still there when feixiao exists why is bro still shilling bailu in 2024? yunli hate is so forced. at e0s0, she is definitely much better than midcheron (coming from someone who has e0s1 midcheron)
Is it the first time of us play hsr? Acheron and firefly soon will get power creep with 3.0 ver dps. Its just like jing liu and danheng il in the version 1.
@@Condensed_rockeh… Acheron is a Raiden Mei expy (export) and that is one of mihoyo’s original characters they’ve slapped into every game of theirs to date except tears of Themis (all males) and ZZZ (still new). Saying FF won’t fall off because she’s a favorite is hilarious. Raiden Mei is their treasured purple child. Dr Mei and Raiden Mei from GGZ and Honkai Impact. Raiden shogun in genshin. Acheron in HSR
since Feixiao came out i barely touch Acheron, i mostly use her FUA set up, using F.A.R.T. i got topaz with rerun and second team is FF superbreak team, soon testing Rappa since i got her
this tierlist is based of off testing chs with no limited 4* or 5* LC, so i assume prydwen tested acheron with either fermata or solitary healing lc, which justifies her showing lower tier performance
This is me with silver wolf and Bronya. Bronya is my favorite HoYo character (thank Honkai impact for that) (yes SW is a Bronya expy too) so I’ll e6 them both idc 😂Bronya I just need to lose 1 more 50/50 to
Noooo my wife 😭this is unacceptable!! DAiwei wtf u doing man. You better make OBSIDIAN Nihility/harmony and BIS for Acheron. Do it!!!! #MakeAcheronGreatAgaaaaiin 😭
A summon meta support might actually break the curse of MID Jing Yuan has been for the entire game. Being borderline a serviceable dps can't last anymore.
His biggest problem is how backloaded his damage is. And also if LL is about to drop at shit timing because of health pool RNG (I’ve seen this happen even to the most careful 0 cyclers). So if there’s a way to control the summon he will have something that can genuinely help him.
22:08 thats my team actually lol Feixiao march8 hwehwe and bobin is clearing mobs left and right and as he mentioned, yunli+hwehwe and 2 harmonys just autobattle
Great analysis, thank you! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
As an E5 Bronya haver, I've started to notice and appreciate that her E4 is not as useless as I thought and is actually situationally quite good. And here I sat for almost a year like "what is the purpose of this eidolon even"
I think Acheron's placement is absolutely fine. FART is just way above every other team except for arguably Firefly super break, they just have so much more synergy and feel more solid to play within their teams. Acheron meanwhile has gotten a total of 1 dedicated support and has been fighting an uphill battle against MOC buffs that keep catering to follow-up and break playstyles. Not to mention at E0S0 Acheron really isn't all that due to losing relatively significant stack generation capabilities, as well as the sheer stats that her LC gives. Until anything more is done to improve Acheron's teams or giving her a much better 4 star LC alternative for people who don't have S1, she does by right deserve to be in T0.5.
@@Ilikegames804 No shit. FF cant even 0 cycle other bosd than this 2.5 first side boss . Even if you have e2 you still need 2 DDD s5 on your hmc and rm if you want to 0 cycle other boss
actually diabolical tier list update lmao, but if Acheron is actually getting booted down a tier I wholeheartedly believe the REST of the DPS section should also be booted down a tier from their current standing, because there is no other DPS aside from the V2.0s like Yunli and Feixiao that are actually able to hold a candle to her damage.
@@kpkazan he's not better It's situational which is better 3 or more targets Acheron is better less than 3 targets Ratio is better (I'll leave out the nuance about what supports they need for this)
@@kpkazan its not really overhyped it just Lacks in a decend DPS. With a Quantum Hypercarry Silverwolf will be used again since in her current usages her Gimmick (weakness implant) isnt really needed but will with Mono Quantum. And Sparkle+FX are still Top Tier. so the only Piece missing is a decent Quantum DPS.
@@DantoriusDalternatively: E6 your silver wolf. Her damage is disgusting and she implants her own weakness and debuff. This is a huge investment but I swear e2 sparkle was made for e6 sw. To add though: QQ surprisingly still holds REALLY well. Xueyi is niche but she’s my favorite so I will break her out for certain enemy lineups. Seele is just in pure fiction now and I don’t use her and SW together much anymore. Also wolfie in PF is tragic unless you run hyper speed with 4pc eagle
I cant believe even pokke is saying rappa not as good, cos she got no weakness implant when it barely matters. Even boothill/firefly wants enemy with an existing phys/fire weakness just so that they have a lower res to it. You can argue that implant enable allies to deal toughness damage, yes, but who exactly does boothill enable? sustain Natasha? Hanya?
i wish you would have an account with all characters bbut 5 stars at E0S0 just so that your arguments and discussions make more sense, I feel like having Eidolons and sig LC change how you feel about characters
I get that powercreep is something that is natural and required for a business, but it would be nice if they would touch up characters like other games. They don't need to be top tier meta, but there are clear winner and losers. Some of the units were never good to begin with. On some level, yes, you can use whatever you want, but it would be nice if instead of ONLY releasing supports that make older units work better but make the meta units also stronger, we could see some increases in damage numbers to make the older units, not eclipsing the meta units, but enough that you can use them. People will pull for newer units and lightcones and eidolons even if its not so bad that they need to pull new units. I will say that powercreep isn't nearly as bad as some people want you to believe, butit shouldn't be where units that require the same financial investment are so wildly different in usability like say Hook and Moze. And... I think the health pools for enemies should also scale. Make older bosses feel like bosses and older units feel like units.
I mean they release indirect buffs to jing yuan and himeko like every other patch so to be fair they DO do this but it’s not consistently directed towards one specific team comp
This was me on Seele’s rerun. She’s the most fun dps for me to play and I love her in Honkai impact so ofc I’ll pull for her. I only really use her in pure fiction rn since that’s where she’s excelling (allows mechanic abuse of resurgence) and honestly who cares? Pull who you like! Just make sure to invest in them and their supports and their longevity should be just fine
i feel like himeko is still under dps tier since she doesnt offer anything but dmg whereas thats where specialists seem to differ but yeah shes literally dead outside of fire weak and even super break, for pf i still run her as crit dps
Why is anyone shocked? The entire reason why I won't summon for her is because her LC is a requirement. The game doesn't have enough powerful universal LC options too
That's how it's been recently, especially with someone like Rappa. You may as well not even summon Rappa if you can't get her LC because it was made to fix all the problems they baked into her kit on purpose
I just want to say, I have E0S0 Acheron, with Jiaoqiu, Lingsha and Ruan Mei or Luka depending on break weakness. My Acheron easily does 2-300k without buffs and 500-600k with buffs. Idk I don’t think she’s fallen off too much.
@@Radiant450Seems like a bit of both, feixiao players acting like going down half a tier killed acheron and acheron fans saying feixiao will drop when Hoolay is gone
As one of the only Ratio mains out there left 💀 I agree that him and Acheron should not be in the same tier. While Ive been happy that hes managed to stay that high for this long its unrealistic to say hes on the same level as acheron. If shes getting moved down Ratio should also be moved down one or rather Acheron shouldve stayed in the top tier so Ratio could keep his place.
I really don’t get where this “Ratio isn’t acheron tier” is coming from (I kinda do, she is extremely popular while he was free), blud literally has very similar average scores to her for the past 3 MoCs + is harder to play + has way lower sig LC ownership rate. They are on the same level man if we go by prydwen’s own data and put our agendas away.
just cause youre a ratio main doesnt give your word anymore credit if you had said that from your personal testing that ratio was performing worse on average that would at least be a some semblance of a good argument as a Ratio main (Who has tested with my own units as well as looked at showcases, data and calcs) i can say confidently that Ratio and Acheron are very relative with one of the two being better based on the Boss in broad strokes though ratio is better in Single target bosses (Like Kafka, Hooley, Argenti, AVENTURINE) while Acheron is better with 3+ targets (Choir and upcoming 2.6 bananacedy)
38:55 You seem to be constantly forgetting that the tierlist uses a three MoC aggregate when assessing units. Dr. Ratio is simply out performing Acheron in the statistics by a small margin. He is the FUA alternative to Feixaio, and FUA is just that much ahead right now. With Robin's rerun, a lot of people are getting her, and he by extension is having better numbers for those who weren't able to get Feixiao as well. The data is right there on the site. He is not going to go below Acheron when his numbers are better or equal to her own.
How is Pela going up on the tier lists is my quesiton especially after they put down Acheron her best teammate. Prydwen make some weird choices tbh and their explanation is that she is good with Jiaoqiu and Acheron🤔🤔. Even Sparkle went down.
![งมหอย จับปลา มือเปล่า หาอยู่หากินแบบวีถีอีสานกับแก๊งเซียนหรั่ง ม่วนคัก! [ขอนแก่น] @Sianstudio](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JEJZg6N-AbU/mqdefault.jpg)
Blud needs to remember this tierlist is made with E0S0 in mind, Acheron has in fact fallen off if you consider her at that level of investment.
without her LC she's different unit, lack luster compared to Ratio and other dps
@kyotheman69 not compare to ratio I think. She’s still just better and versatile in general than him.
@@nerotv836Ratio is probably ranked high due to RRAT
Acheron and Yunli with signatures are T0 tbh
@@smolbeans7 Arguably RRAT takes more investment to get the same potential as S1 Acheron with more ftp teams though.
Can't wait for when Feixiao gets powercreept in 3.1 insane great game
It's gonna be Real Herta's Playground
Before fei xiao , its acheron and firefly first 😂
Feixiao is able to 40k PF and 0 cycle Phase 1 of this MOC cycle. If she's a god at ST and still performs at the level of other peak AOE characters, it'd take everything to powercreep her lmao.
Meanwhile, Acheron is 💀💀💀
Can't even 0 cycle Hoolay using a 5-cost E2S1 team (find me one, you can't xD)
@@kingsimba9513Acheron is going to PF content really soon.
The New one is made for her and Jiaoqiu looks like it was made for this gamemode.
@@kingsimba9513 I think she is still decent, you can't say a character si dead when you can get 3 stars in all endgame content. Fei Xiao and FF are stronger right now but they will fall eventually in 3.X.
I think Fei Xiao will fall faster than FF just because she is ST.
But falling down doesn't mean becoming bad, just less efficient.
The fact that we only have jio for dedicated support for acheron is nuts that the other dps has premium 5 star team
Now Acheron players know how Dot players feel.
@@Beanichudot is a different case ,if you can't see that hoyo is purposely saving dot for future main (like 2.0 to 3.0 for superbreak) Main of future then idk man
@@Beanichu Me being an Acheron and DoT player:
@@ryuk6795 yeah from the looks of it since we have not get any dot chracters that are new yet
@@eliazbrosas1565 ya man I also thinks that they might add new path just the way they added dendro in genshin and we might get new meta or playstyle out of it
prydwen demoting acheron right before her 1st rerun 💀
Nah that just means people will get that e2 and LC
just goes to show absolutely dog water the power creep in hsr is compared to other popular gatchas (genshin wuwa)
@@Indian_gae_boiiit’s a turn based gacha and apparently that’s just common in these specific games. Genshin and others have power creep but they don’t shill the content so hard towards one specific meta that other characters become seemingly obsolete. Like a 5.x character arlecchino is a busted character but her 1.x predecessor hu Tao still performs really damn well (genshin)
I don't think you should reed change log before looking at the tier list. I think you should look at the tier list and then the reasoning and not the oposite.
people need to relies don't take tier lists as total fact, these are their opinions you can decide who to use, i test units myself i agree and disagree what these tier lists say in this game.
@@kyotheman69 Except these lists are based on actual data (average MOC cycles and AS/PF scores). Acheron has been middling for a while now so her downgrade was more than justified.
And before anyone discounts Prydwen's data, it should be noted that they are quite comparable to what you'd see in the CN version, so there is a degree of credibility here.
For anyone interested, Pokke noted this similarity at around 7:12 in his recent CN video.
@kingsimba9513 Acheron is just facing abysses that are not designed for her
When they're bored of pushing superbreak they will kill off Firefly by making toughness bar lock* enemies come back
@@kpkazaneven if they stop pushing super break or FUA acheron will already be powercrept by the new 3.x dps 😂
@@jawbonedis that's always going to happen bro, 3.0 characters will powercreep all our current ones, 4.0 will powercreep all the 3.0 ones, the cycle is everlasting.
Hp pools have gotten so massive that top teirs a few patches ago start to fall off
Also since starrail decided to start replacing niches (ghallagher and HMC for linghsa and fugue) instead of expand on niches, is so cringe and make case worse for dps units if there willing to replace supports that quickly
It is crazy tbh. I dont understand why anyone would whale in a situation where a character could be made obsolete in a few patches, other than rolling addiction, lol
@@vangoghsseveredearpeople can pull for characters because they like them. Just because a new character is better it doesn’t mean the older ones suck
because eidolons prolong the fall off@@vangoghsseveredear
@@vangoghsseveredearbecause whaling is probably the best way to keep characters from being powercrept. E0 DHIL isn’t doing anything crazy now but E2 is still keeping up with the top tiers. E0S0 Acheron and no Jiaqiou is probably one of the worst limited dps I’ll be honest but E2 or E0S1 with JQ can still crush endgame. Whaling keeps their dps floor higher
I agree, they could have done so much more with so many characters, taking fugue as an example, yall just had a fire nihility? well here comes another fire nihility for superbreak, not even physical or quantum or ice.
In all fairness Acheron isn't performing as she did before. The two caveats to this is that Hoyo has been shilling super break and follow up so incredibly hard the last few patches that it's no wonder they are outperforming everyone, and I have all the big 3 now with very good builds and teams. The second caveat is that Acheron has a very special part of her kit (stack based ult) that means she can be revitalized at any time, easily. As long as the almighty Hoyo are willing to make it so. It's a lot harder for someone like Jingliu to regain meta relevance (tho it hurts to say, mine is E1S1 and almost never used).
Nah.. skill issue.. my Firefly team is way better using her "only" team with HMC, Ruan Mei and Gallagher, yet my e1s1 Acheron team with Bronya, Jiaqiou and Gepard (yes, fcking Gepard) is doing waaaaaayyy better in all game modes, even in pure fiction..!! Even if the content is made for fua and break, my Acheron is still doing better than my Firefly.. anyone saying she fell off is just a skill issue at this point..
@@lmntsgames3848 both are way better, what? Sounds like you invested more into your Acheron too, despite the scuffed teammates.
People forget that non-breakable enemies are a thing in this game. Hoyoverse can completely shut off super break in a single lineup.
@@desolatorstorm142lmao stop the 🧢. Break is the core mechanics of the game. Acheron simps like you are really delulu😂😂😂
also a thing to keep in mind is that this is raiden. she’s already had relic sets tailored for her, a support tailored for her, and is the only dps with all offensive traces. i do think they’ll keep her at least somewhat relevant with new releases
Also, something to keep in mind is that Prydwen's list is E0S0, which affects a lot of DPS like Acheron and Rappa who have some kit-specific interactions on their LC. This generally makes DPS units far more susceptible to powercreep on their list. So a lot of players that will claim "XYZ DPS hasn't fallen off because mine can still clear in 1 cycle" need to remember that the LC makes a big difference, multiple LCs across the team makes a huge difference, and E1/E2 can sometimes change the entire game for a unit.
Yeah but as people have brought up in other comment sections or videos, the lack of LC also hurts Feixiao immeasurably. To the point where she will start to do worse with her premium team than Firefly, Acheron, etc, against everything but specifically Hoolay
@@Paul_Frank what, one of feixiaos best lightcones is the 5 star herta hunt lc, its literally her third best lc and completely free, and feixiao with her premium team team but without her lc is much much better than acheron without her lc but with premium team
The owner of Prydwen did mention this and believe Acheron and Yunli with their sig are all t0. Acheron’s sig has like 90% ownership rate which is crazy.
But e0s0 Acheron should move down because her sig lc makes her much better to play. Without it, it’s a bit rough which has always been the case.
@@Paul_Frank
Feixiao dosen't suffer "immesurably" at all from the lack of her LC, i don't know what you're on
what made me kind of pissed off with Acheron she's trash without her LC, LC is such huge power boost to her kit, wasn't happy this be thing going forward, lucky we get characters don't really need them they are fine with f2p or 4 star options.
I cry every time I see someone say fugue will save dot knowing she’s just Hmc + mai
she actually doesn't work like HMC and RM's kit..
She won't SAVE DoT, but she'll likely work well with them considering more breaks = more DoTs, plus I think she also grants Def shred, which is useful for DoT too
@@aiya2324she gives super break baseline of course she works like HMC
@@aiya2324She has break efficiency buff + superbreak buff, that's equivalent Ruan and Hmc at one package.
@@k.h6635 And she also gives exo toughness on top of that, yummers
What baffles me is Lingsha not being T0, especially with this MoC and PF rotation.
Acheron fell off?
Nah 100k in 2 seconds, MrPokke fell off
For my E2S1 Acheron it's closer to 600-700k in 2 seconds agains like 3 enemies (not even 5 and not even using Jiaoqiu). Team i run is Sparkle + SW + Aventurine.
Sure its high Investment but if you compare that to FF who is also reliant on her E2 and Ruan Mei to really become busted and Feixiao who ideally also wants a full 5* team and ideally her weapon and at least E1 i dont see how Acheron is supposed to be worse.
Sure current buffs favor Feixio FuA and FF break but the fact that Acheron still performs similair shows just how strong she is overall. Not just that but both FF teams and Feixiao teams deal their damage spread across multiple characters while Acheron does almost the whole teams damage on her own.
I also dont get the point of Feixiaos 4* options supposedly being better then Acherons. Both have incredible free options but still fall off noticeably if you lack the dedicated 5* teammates. Still they are plenty strong and perfectly capable without those dedicated 5*.
@@blackbutler8182I didn’t expect this kind of comment under the clips channel but good for you mate
@@blackbutler8182even at E0S0 Acheron with Sparkle is actually better than having two Nihility to activate her talent.. this has been extensively tested during her release and a complete shocker to the testers..
Que tiene que ver los segundos?
@@blackbutler8182not hating but, this proves there point if her damage is this dependent on Eliodons and LC then fexiao makes her an even better option for f2p and whales and her damage is can be better than Acheron with 4 star supports
I love my girlie acheron i have her e2s1 + e1s1 jiaoqiu just cause she's one of my mains but when you consider that these tierlist go off e0s0 numbers (acheron is a whole different character with and without her lc) and that the latest content has been all catering to fua and break it does add up. You have characters like fei and ff in t0 who despite having cracked eidolons still perform insanely well even at e0s0 while acheron on the other hand makes you feel the difference
This was bound to happen tbh. This is a team game after all
Simple mechanic changes or just new enemies can affect the whole meta
If they wanted to, they could bring back Sam and Bronya fights that lock weakness. This would only slightly decrease FF and break character play rate.
For FuA, what if they introduce an enemy Yunli that hits back for every hit it’s taken or a DoT that ignores shield and damages the character only. This would hurt Feixiao and Aventurine a bit
This. This entirely. They can literally make anyone irrelevant at any time if they so desire. I think in due time everything will have a use but for now we’ve got 4 archetypes and that’s all people have to base things off of
Dont trust anyone even mr pokke bruh.
Trust your self , what you want to gacha.
Your tier list is better than other people, trust me.
Since this character in this game get power creep very fast.
Just gacha what you want, dont listen to other people opinion about tier list.
Mihoyo always mihoyo, dps ver 1 become trash in ver 2, dps ver 2 (acheron/firefly) will become trash in ver 3.
Why? Because its mihoyo.
Very helpful thanks man
Yes, its very funny to see many players compare and ranking all characters. Then they say mid liu, mid Yuan etc. That's fucking stupid, when you can clear MoC with those garbage characters then its still decent to play them. Of course that you need high investment on them, but its really fun and challenging when you can clear end game content with them 😂
If you are a simp, then don't insult other charas cus when ur favorite chara got powercreep its your time to got insulted by other. Its simple like that, not everything is eternal like tier list etc. Now ur character T0 but in the future? T0,5? T1? T2? or T3? Its casual game, just enjoy ur game, build ur charas, and don't look at game community for tier list etc.
Side note anyone else noticed that all the break dps' are not technically "Human"
Firefly= Testube baby
Boothill= Cyborg
Xueyi=Puppet
Rappa= Testube baby.
Blade is slowly raising through the tiers patch by patch. Blade T0 will be real! Believe it! *copium*
Hey its leak bruh, summon and hp mechanic are meta in ver 3.
Imagine he become neuvilete tier becuase of a new support or relic that scales with hp.
it took xiao almost 2 years to have faruzan and 3 years for furina/xianyun. blade's time will come
blade sneak
Blade hyper actually beated hoolay on my account with a sustainerless welt/rm acheron team on first side, the amount of attacks hoolay does actually helps the stacks a lot
The Prydwn tier list is so cooked bro, their priorities are all over the place. They judge some characters by their own (the character's) merits, judge some others by the merits of their available teammates, judge others by the merits of the archetype they belong or dont belong too, judge some by the damage they deal, judge some by how flexible they are
FUCKING PICK ONE AND BE CONSISTENT. Good fucking lord
Yep, Feixiao is one of the best examples of this, and is not bcz her, is bcz FUA, but well, they see the prdwn opinion like the HSR laws in terms of use, but ok, just let still playing and show the real tiers by our accounts, if we dont do that, they will ignore our actual opinion even if is objectively better
Every dps falls off eventually. Better to pull your favorite dps and their BiS supports.
Because the people who are thinking Feixiao and Firefly won't get powercrept before 3.5 because they have better supports and better scalings, remember Jingliu? You don't? Yeah, me too🤣.
I'm pulling acheron because she has reliable damage, and her technique is a really good QoL.
I will also say: every dps will “fall off” (meaning drop from godlike to great/good) but you know what doesn’t fall off? Harmony units. We are playing Harmony Support Rail.
sparkle who is a harmony and also fell off:....
@@shinsuke9540
she will bounce back eventually 😂
rip to the guy who broke his monitor on the sub reddit
but I would love another site to come out with cn analysis and jus dethrone Prydwen.
Yeah it’s time for mrpokke to create his own tierlist website, competition is always good!
Apart from Seele's performance, Prydwen and CN data are strikingly similar. Pokke recently covered both so you can see for yourself.
@kingsimba9513 then you basically didn't comprehend the vid cn anwlaysis is definitely different from prydwen at least for pure fiction. cn doesn5 rate argenti as high as prydwen does
they also consider sit ligh5 cone compared to prydwen .
so basically you're either lying or quite mistaken
@@christophermauro-barias7451 given she sheer number of characters and team combinations in this game, these are still relatively minor differences. If one side weights PF performance slightly differently than the other that's a subjective judgement and there isn't really a right answer.
@@christophermauro-barias7451 Not sure why you're being hostile over such a mild comment but ok.
And I was referring to how characters placed relative to each other in terms of average cycles clears/appearance rates (even when accounting for sigs and eidolons). Mr. Pokke even comes to the same conclusion I did at 7:12 in the most recent CN video:
"For both the EN and CN, their average cycles are exceedingly similar"
Don't tell me you're unable to comprehend simple arithmetic?
The fact that it takes less than a year before a character falls is insane and imo characters should at least last year before falling off which also means 5star characters being released at such a fast pace should slow down
Yeah, funny how these games work, you grind relics domain for months for great set and when you get it your characters is already fallen off the meta.
@@suilugferenthon6683I don’t get this take. Are you lot suddenly just unable to clear end game modes with your farmed out Acheron? Just because Prydwen declared some shit on their tier list? Sounds like using tier lists as an excuse for skill issue to me
@@MrFrexys Skill issue on auto game 😂 you meant rng issue
Thats not really insane rate though compared to the character releases and Acheron is still really strong even when MOC is not buffing her dmg right now.
@@MrFrexys that’s not it I’m just saying that it’s insane because I used to play dbz dokkan battle and characters in that game even take a year before TH-camrs or tier list start to say a character falls off that’s all
Let’s be honest, Acheron is T0.5 because of the cry babies that skipped Jiaoqiu with allat doom posting.
Probably but only probably
Exactly
I think Jiaoqiu is unironically slept on and is good for more than just Acheron though he is her dedicated support. I skipped cause I was saving for another character and don’t have Acheron but all credit due to- he’s really damn good
21:35 I actually intentionally run huohuo over one of the break sustains with boothill, but thats because I have E1 huohuo which pushes my boothill over 200 speed in battle so thats probably an edge case.
Huohuo is also just the GOAT. Absolutely perfect sustain regardless of team
i feel like Ratio has always been insanely strong, and now with the release of Moze, you have a perfectly good 4* alternative to Topaz.
MAKE ACHERON GREAT AGAIN
As an E0 Acheron haver............. I am surprisingly not surprised 🫤
Imagine thinking Acheron is on the same level as Dr. Ratio. Someone at Prydwen burned down the whole Kitchen. I'm ok with her being T0.5 but not that she is equal to Dr. Ratio.
That's the major point, moving her down to T0.5? Fine, meta is not catered towards her, her team is still incomplete etc etc...
But they should've moved down every single other DPS under her by half a tier as well because that's how things are.
E0S0 Acheron on same tier of E0S0 Ratio...what a joke, that guys sucks balls at E0S0
have you ever seen dr ratio in ipc team
Dr ratio with free lc vs acheron with free lc is not even close
@@nikumilotic1333 he needs e1s1 topaz to even be able to proc his follow ups which are his major source of damage, IPC team is nowhere near fei, firefly, acheron or boothill without e1s1 topaz.
@@nikumilotic1333 IPC oiler team is fraudulent unless you are oiler too and have signature LC on Topaz or Aventurine or Topaz E1.
Boothill is still consistently 1-2 shooting bosses and they adamantly REFUSE to put my man in t0 moc while FF is still t0 in both moc AND as. Disgraceful.
What you expect out of these FF simps? They were always cringe.
Womp womp
We found cringe ff simp@@smolbeans7
Firefly is just easier to use
Don't forget they haven't updated his build with moze Gacha LC aswell as his relic set it's still 4 piece Thief in their Calculations....
This is the first time I disagree with the majority of their changes
Acheron, even with the second side being against her mechanics wise, she still cleared faster on average than some people above equal to or above her in tier. Ofc Feixiao cleared fastest because she has Aventurine against Hoolay kek. Across both sides, Acheron did great at side 1, and still fine at 2. Saying "X character is good with multiple teams" also doesn't make sense because they explicitly say they're going with each units strongest team
Seele going down that far is something I honestly can't believe given how fast her clear rate always is on CN, her Eidolons alone arent strong enough to make this "oh they count e6 and Prydwen doesn’t"
Blade being the same tier as Jingliu also sounds like omega cope, but what do I know
Kafka and BS being lowered due to no dots makes sense, but then you check the CN clear rate and they're faster than Boothill so rip
As someone who only plays once per patch, acheron still pretty much 0 or 1 cycles moc without much trouble.
The reason why blade is same teir as jinglui is side 2 heavily benefits his gimmicks
you disagree with acheron because you don't actually realize how she was supposed to be ranked. Everyone took her being T0 as granted, yet nobody realize that the tier list is ranked based on e0s0, that's why acheron always should've been T0.5, and prydwen only drops her down now because of the pressure from feixiao, which is a mistake on their end.
Since this is a e0s0 tierlist, Acheron moving down is fair. Owner did say she is t0 with her sig which has an insanely 90% ownership rate.
Doesn't the CN tier list have no limits to the Eidolon even for the team mates? That could be the reason for discrepancies.
for me it look like feixiao is not better than acheron , but her team is better than acheron ones , it's not the same thing ( hello my DoT bros who will never have an entiere real team )
Petition for Hoyo to make DoT be Damage over Time instead of Damage over Turn.
DoT damages needs to scale with action value instead of enemie's turn. If all of us decide to speak up, Hoyo might change something.
Make DoT great again!
Don't late-game enemies have ridiculous speed, like doesn't Hoolay have over 250 speed...
They have to completely rewrite the code for half the game all the events and their buffs and upcoming content
Too late to bully them into doing that
But could've worked if people were angry about in 1.0 to 1.5
@@Ilya0084 il aware of this but this is not the good mindset
@@soldier6378 fast enemies ≠ high dot dmg. If you can't stack dots then its pointless
They will fix the problem by selling a solution. There will be a DOT support
Acheron mains 💀calm down, breath slowly and dial up 988 for your safety.
As a dr ratio main I'm happy AF with FU teams
Cry more, feixao bot
Nah that list was never made for me ^^ im totally aware of the Fact an E0S0 Acheron is Garbage and never belong that high on the List. Thats the Reason i went for E2S1 bc by then she is on a complete differend Level.
@DantoriusD my e0s0 is hitting like 400k+ consistently in MoC, sure I've admittedly gotten some good relics but still I think calling her garbage is crazy
@@aracuno8626 I agree she def isn't garbage just not top dog anymore (still top tier good tho)
37:13 The comment wasnt wrong tho, he said that you wont be able to 0 cycle but you can still clear Moc. Also the comment mentioned her lc, something that prydwen doesnt take into account
Pwyrden would have to be fair. If they take Acheron Ediolons into consideration then every chatacter will also take eidolons into consideration. Firefly and DHIL will also rise for example.
It also doesn´t help that there´s no lightning weakness, single target damage is prefered, and enemies are weak to Wind (Fei), Fire (Ass), Phys (Bobin).
Yeah but being off element is a big detriment to every character though. Acheron can still easily 0 cycle the first half as she is on element with shared hp boss. Feixiao would struggle to get 0 cycle against them without more investment meanwhile she defeats Hoolay with ease.
No reason Acheron shouldn't still be tier 0 when she still has the best aoe dmg in the game right now. 2.6 we are getting another boss that Acheron can 0 cycle at E0S0 as well as its 5 enemies with shared hp the best situation for Acheron.
@@kennethyoung7457I mean saying she is the “best AoE dmg dealer in the game” as reasoning for her being T0 doesn’t make sense. She has fallen behind competition and thats a fact going by prydwen’s own data, like even last 3 MoCs she had the same avg clear score as Ratio again according to prydwen themselves (and now you have people dunking on Ratio when he is in fact the same level as her).
@@kennethyoung7457What’s crazy is Feixiao performs better at th same cost on first half
People forget that MOC is a glorified advertisement for the most recent gimmick. It's like, no shit Acheron will fall behind when Hoyoverse isn't trying to sell her to you.
from leaks, they were pissed boothill did too well so they made both sides have res to physical…
0 original jokes in 11 minutes, youtube comments fell off
37:03 I'm not sure why he highlighted my comment. Acheron didn't fall off completely this patch. All I said is that she won't get powercrept so hard to be unusable which is true. It's quite obvious she won't be the best DPS forever, but both T0 and T0.5 mean that these units can brute force every MoC. Probably won't be able to 0 cycle without her LC, but that doesn't really matter in end.
I just main acheron because i love her, obsessing over meta dps wise will ruin your account as they get replaced, just get the dps you love and call it a day honestly
Acheron already dropped below Yunli, not on the list but in performance, people just are slow to acknowledge it because so many dismissed her when she came out.
Yeah We’ll ignore ignore that most PF, AS and MoC since her release have had physical weak sides with FuA/counter major and minor buffs and absolutely nothing for Acheron yet Acheron still keeps pace with top dps
@@MrFrexys I would hope the 4th best dps keeps pace. The puppets are a plenty good opponent for Acheron, certainly not "absolutely nothing" and Yunli is still overall performing better this MoC.
bro forgor Pela is nihility and can be used on Acheron teams
After playing Metaphor ReFantazio, the way to make more “difficult” enemies now is straight up just making AAA JRPG level Boss mechanics.
We are GOOD on HP. In fact imo Hoolay was a bit overtuned. Now make the actual fights more interesting.
Giving bosses more HP just means the characters DESIGNED with Bosses with less HP in mind will gradually fall off. Make boss fight designs more interesting and difficult to make current and some past DPSs still viable.
Give players a set goal or side goals in each boss fight rather than make the boss a bloated HP sponge.
EDIT: They are honestly doing this already with the Echo of War bosses. Those bosses have unique and fun mechanics. Just put those mfers in MoC, not just AS, rather than bloating HP of Elites
Is that pgr reference
Hoyo just wants money hp bloat sells units
Isn't Echo of War just a HP sponge? Don't really remember something special about these bosses, break weakness, kill them. And imo, Hoyo doesn't have any intention to do something interesting in Star Rail from gameplay perspective.
That's what they do with some of the fun event modes. Wish they did it with the regular modes too.
I can finally say “ACHERON FALL OFF MUST BE STUDIED🗣🗣🗣🧑🏫🧑🏫🧑🏫🧑🏫🧑🏫”
Man, with how fast the damage ceiling is increasing every version, if Hoyo decides to one day release a "Super DoT" character, then you can be certain this archetype is going to go extinct in 5 patches
I still think it’s funny how despite “OMG EVERYONE IS GETTING POWERCREPT” we have DHIL still chilling in the same spot completely unbothered LOL
Lacking General. Lacking in Rivals. That includes Acheron. 🤣🤣🤣
The next best future Acheron team, Jiao Xiao (resolution shines as a pearl), Fugue (Ruan Mei LC/DDD or SW LC) and Aventurine (Universal Market/ Landau or Gepard LC) and building Acheron with break effect on top of her regular build and drop tons of speed in both fugue and Jiao Xiao to make sure they can get several turns.
I hope Diamond will work well with Acheron, I hope the Emanator team can be a thing
Holding out for some sort of Acheron/Kiana/Bronya team someday. Just to satisfy my happiness as a Hi3 player
Still remember the days where topaz was my first double since day one good old days and then my pulls after that went to garbage to this day
hoyo really loves jingyuan
dr ratio E0S0 T 0,5 is wild
What I'm saying, I love ipc but e0s0 ratio is not t0.5
We all know he is carried by March 8th and Bobin.
Ratio probably hasn’t gone down yet because his IP3 team is really good against those 12-1 puppets. He’s not really getting any use now because Feixiao stole his whole team, but if you do use him, he still works really well there. He’ll probably drop off in a couple patches, but I think it makes sense to not move him yet.
lmao i'm gonna wait for the cool summon dps now, likely the fate units
entering midcheron era. kingyuan mains rise up. in 2.7 we will all laugh at them
why tf is ratio still there when feixiao exists
why is bro still shilling bailu in 2024?
yunli hate is so forced. at e0s0, she is definitely much better than midcheron (coming from someone who has e0s1 midcheron)
Is it the first time of us play hsr?
Acheron and firefly soon will get power creep with 3.0 ver dps.
Its just like jing liu and danheng il in the version 1.
Basically
Firefly isnt going to get powercrept anytime soon. She is just too universally (except against Trotters loool) good.
@@Tiasungthe devs like her too much.. especially the ceo
@@Condensed_rockeh… Acheron is a Raiden Mei expy (export) and that is one of mihoyo’s original characters they’ve slapped into every game of theirs to date except tears of Themis (all males) and ZZZ (still new). Saying FF won’t fall off because she’s a favorite is hilarious. Raiden Mei is their treasured purple child. Dr Mei and Raiden Mei from GGZ and Honkai Impact. Raiden shogun in genshin. Acheron in HSR
ACHERON FELL OFF MY LIFE IS COMPLETE
since Feixiao came out i barely touch Acheron, i mostly use her FUA set up, using F.A.R.T. i got topaz with rerun and second team is FF superbreak team, soon testing Rappa since i got her
this tierlist is based of off testing chs with no limited 4* or 5* LC, so i assume prydwen tested acheron with either fermata or solitary healing lc, which justifies her showing lower tier performance
is it just me or is CLARA SO COOKING!?!? shes managed to outlive every other 1.0 dps, and 1.X other then ratio!??!?
I WILL NEVER BENCH ACHERON EVEN IF IT MEANS THAT I NEED TO PULL FOR HER E6
This is me with silver wolf and Bronya. Bronya is my favorite HoYo character (thank Honkai impact for that) (yes SW is a Bronya expy too) so I’ll e6 them both idc 😂Bronya I just need to lose 1 more 50/50 to
Noooo my wife 😭this is unacceptable!! DAiwei wtf u doing man. You better make OBSIDIAN Nihility/harmony and BIS for Acheron. Do it!!!! #MakeAcheronGreatAgaaaaiin 😭
Yall gonna be upset if that back rows of enemies thing is true cause that's an acheron buff if anything 😂
I seen that leak, It will most likely be a gimmick for like a single MoC or be PF exclusive.
@@promc2890 i can def see it being more PF for sure
lol im so happy i skipped sparkle
My wife vs my wife: The Separation
I finally get a perfect relics for my DPS, uh oh character already fallen off 😱
A summon meta support might actually break the curse of MID Jing Yuan has been for the entire game.
Being borderline a serviceable dps can't last anymore.
His biggest problem is how backloaded his damage is. And also if LL is about to drop at shit timing because of health pool RNG (I’ve seen this happen even to the most careful 0 cyclers). So if there’s a way to control the summon he will have something that can genuinely help him.
I recommend all content creators look at the moc analytics and the placements start making MUCH more sense
22:08 thats my team actually lol
Feixiao march8 hwehwe and bobin is clearing mobs left and right
and as he mentioned, yunli+hwehwe and 2 harmonys just autobattle
This was the first moc that I suffered in. Still cleared, but suffered greatly. RIP Acheron.
Sad my e6 Acheron is only 1 cycling MoC on auto. She truly need a buff
Great analysis, thank you! A bit off-topic, but I wanted to ask: My OKX wallet holds some USDT, and I have the seed phrase. (alarm fetch churn bridge exercise tape speak race clerk couch crater letter). How should I go about transferring them to Binance?
As an E5 Bronya haver, I've started to notice and appreciate that her E4 is not as useless as I thought and is actually situationally quite good. And here I sat for almost a year like "what is the purpose of this eidolon even"
Dude couldn't stop himself from punching his pc💀
that just called me poor in 1000 different ways
I think Acheron's placement is absolutely fine. FART is just way above every other team except for arguably Firefly super break, they just have so much more synergy and feel more solid to play within their teams. Acheron meanwhile has gotten a total of 1 dedicated support and has been fighting an uphill battle against MOC buffs that keep catering to follow-up and break playstyles. Not to mention at E0S0 Acheron really isn't all that due to losing relatively significant stack generation capabilities, as well as the sheer stats that her LC gives. Until anything more is done to improve Acheron's teams or giving her a much better 4 star LC alternative for people who don't have S1, she does by right deserve to be in T0.5.
My E6 Acheron is immune to powercreep kekw
E6 Fexiao
hot take, e2s1already makes her (almost) immune to powercreep in my opinion. the difference between e0s0 and e2s1 is crazy
@@harukasoganuE2S1 Firefly. No Skill points and AA upon break. Yeah no E2S1 Acheron has been powercrept for the position of best E2S1.
@@Ilikegames804 No shit. FF cant even 0 cycle other bosd than this 2.5 first side boss . Even if you have e2 you still need 2 DDD s5 on your hmc and rm if you want to 0 cycle other boss
@@mozu1252 This may sound crazy, but even consistently 0-2 cycling is already enough.
WAR FOR OURCHERON
O comments in 34 seconds...the village FELL OFF!
The comment section is going to be warzone and I'm all for it
actually diabolical tier list update lmao, but if Acheron is actually getting booted down a tier I wholeheartedly believe the REST of the DPS section should also be booted down a tier from their current standing, because there is no other DPS aside from the V2.0s like Yunli and Feixiao that are actually able to hold a candle to her damage.
Objectively and provably wrong
@tornado2308 e0s0 acheron is not on the same tier as e0s0 ratio bfr
@@kpkazan he's not better
It's situational which is better
3 or more targets Acheron is better less than 3 targets Ratio is better
(I'll leave out the nuance about what supports they need for this)
@@kpkazanyea ratio is better
The minute a modern quantum dps releases or a sp hungry one we ll see where will sparkle go in the tierlists😊
Im waiting for Mono Quantum Rise again ^^
@DantoriusD It never took off, it was overhyped
@@kpkazan its not really overhyped it just Lacks in a decend DPS. With a Quantum Hypercarry Silverwolf will be used again since in her current usages her Gimmick (weakness implant) isnt really needed but will with Mono Quantum. And Sparkle+FX are still Top Tier. so the only Piece missing is a decent Quantum DPS.
@@DantoriusDalternatively: E6 your silver wolf. Her damage is disgusting and she implants her own weakness and debuff. This is a huge investment but I swear e2 sparkle was made for e6 sw.
To add though: QQ surprisingly still holds REALLY well. Xueyi is niche but she’s my favorite so I will break her out for certain enemy lineups. Seele is just in pure fiction now and I don’t use her and SW together much anymore. Also wolfie in PF is tragic unless you run hyper speed with 4pc eagle
With Buff after buff after buff and Jing Yuan doesn't rise they just gotta start adjusting his numbers if they want him relevant.
Someone on reddit really broke their monitor when they saw this tier list
I cant believe even pokke is saying rappa not as good, cos she got no weakness implant when it barely matters. Even boothill/firefly wants enemy with an existing phys/fire weakness just so that they have a lower res to it. You can argue that implant enable allies to deal toughness damage, yes, but who exactly does boothill enable? sustain Natasha? Hanya?
i wish you would have an account with all characters bbut 5 stars at E0S0 just so that your arguments and discussions make more sense, I feel like having Eidolons and sig LC change how you feel about characters
I get that powercreep is something that is natural and required for a business, but it would be nice if they would touch up characters like other games. They don't need to be top tier meta, but there are clear winner and losers. Some of the units were never good to begin with. On some level, yes, you can use whatever you want, but it would be nice if instead of ONLY releasing supports that make older units work better but make the meta units also stronger, we could see some increases in damage numbers to make the older units, not eclipsing the meta units, but enough that you can use them. People will pull for newer units and lightcones and eidolons even if its not so bad that they need to pull new units. I will say that powercreep isn't nearly as bad as some people want you to believe, butit shouldn't be where units that require the same financial investment are so wildly different in usability like say Hook and Moze. And... I think the health pools for enemies should also scale. Make older bosses feel like bosses and older units feel like units.
I mean they release indirect buffs to jing yuan and himeko like every other patch so to be fair they DO do this but it’s not consistently directed towards one specific team comp
Aventurine the only consistent one 😂
Oh no the character that i want to get got nerfed…
Too bad I’m still gonna save for her
This was me on Seele’s rerun. She’s the most fun dps for me to play and I love her in Honkai impact so ofc I’ll pull for her. I only really use her in pure fiction rn since that’s where she’s excelling (allows mechanic abuse of resurgence) and honestly who cares? Pull who you like! Just make sure to invest in them and their supports and their longevity should be just fine
its Rappa e0s0, thats why she is t1
i feel like himeko is still under dps tier since she doesnt offer anything but dmg whereas thats where specialists seem to differ but yeah shes literally dead outside of fire weak and even super break, for pf i still run her as crit dps
Why is anyone shocked? The entire reason why I won't summon for her is because her LC is a requirement. The game doesn't have enough powerful universal LC options too
That's how it's been recently, especially with someone like Rappa. You may as well not even summon Rappa if you can't get her LC because it was made to fix all the problems they baked into her kit on purpose
Bro is reacting like someone really care about prydwen
Midcheron fell off and Seele was finally unable to 0 cycle. Absolute frauds.
I just want to say, I have E0S0 Acheron, with Jiaoqiu, Lingsha and Ruan Mei or Luka depending on break weakness. My Acheron easily does 2-300k without buffs and 500-600k with buffs. Idk I don’t think she’s fallen off too much.
That means you need 6+ ultimates to beat Hoolay.
Fei Xiao mains are gonna cry next year with 3.0 when they introduce back row next year. ROFl
Meh, good enough for us 😂
@@keneunaegbu851the acheron simps have now targeted Fei mains as their enemy for whatever reason.
@@Radiant450 Fr, like it's not our fault Fexiao is her 😭
If that happened, Acheron can start join seele and supa blade.
@@Radiant450Seems like a bit of both, feixiao players acting like going down half a tier killed acheron and acheron fans saying feixiao will drop when Hoolay is gone
As one of the only Ratio mains out there left 💀 I agree that him and Acheron should not be in the same tier. While Ive been happy that hes managed to stay that high for this long its unrealistic to say hes on the same level as acheron. If shes getting moved down Ratio should also be moved down one or rather Acheron shouldve stayed in the top tier so Ratio could keep his place.
I really don’t get where this “Ratio isn’t acheron tier” is coming from (I kinda do, she is extremely popular while he was free), blud literally has very similar average scores to her for the past 3 MoCs + is harder to play + has way lower sig LC ownership rate.
They are on the same level man if we go by prydwen’s own data and put our agendas away.
@@Radiant450What's the deal with the sig LC ownership if the list grade them without?
At e0s0, Acheron cleared in 8.6 cycles, Ratio in 8.7 and that's with him being off element.
just cause youre a ratio main doesnt give your word anymore credit
if you had said that from your personal testing that ratio was performing worse on average that would at least be a some semblance of a good argument
as a Ratio main (Who has tested with my own units as well as looked at showcases, data and calcs) i can say confidently that Ratio and Acheron are very relative with one of the two being better based on the Boss
in broad strokes though ratio is better in Single target bosses (Like Kafka, Hooley, Argenti, AVENTURINE) while Acheron is better with 3+ targets (Choir and upcoming 2.6 bananacedy)
The addition of moze into the game really makes ratio way more flexible for e0s0 team even if u dont have e1s1 topaz
gallagher with acheron is pretty good for 2x debuffs when he ults + normal attacks trigger kafkas debuff fua
38:55 You seem to be constantly forgetting that the tierlist uses a three MoC aggregate when assessing units. Dr. Ratio is simply out performing Acheron in the statistics by a small margin. He is the FUA alternative to Feixaio, and FUA is just that much ahead right now. With Robin's rerun, a lot of people are getting her, and he by extension is having better numbers for those who weren't able to get Feixiao as well. The data is right there on the site. He is not going to go below Acheron when his numbers are better or equal to her own.
counter Arche type is insane hard to Nerf through the Game So i would not be Surprise if in the Future Acheron would be Lower.
I just wanna see rappa cn analysis hit me with the skippa i was right even with Fugue
prydwen certified pela glazers
How is Pela going up on the tier lists is my quesiton especially after they put down Acheron her best teammate. Prydwen make some weird choices tbh and their explanation is that she is good with Jiaoqiu and Acheron🤔🤔. Even Sparkle went down.
@@kennethyoung7457 break teams use pela for bigger breaks. Boot hills best team is pela bronya. Pela is universally good
Bro started playing last week 💀