"Sure, there are combo routes that can escort your opponent right to the blast zone. You don't have to tell me, I invented those!" is one of the greatest flexes of all time
As someone who lives in the same region as Ghost, I really only ever see Thrupper. He's known for only going Helikick as a joke. While you say that Thrupper wasn't used out of shield that much, it still holds a threat at quite high percents as any miss spaced moves will probably get punish.
I live in Victoria and have seen some Ghost play, I main Mii Brawler myself now and prefer Axe Kick for spacing and potential death at 0. I think Thrupper is less viable with our current stage roster, if we had more triplats/ stages with platforms like Yoshi's Thrupper would be way more viable
Yeah that's true, not having Yoshis does suck for Brawler especially since he'd usually get a good platform stage every single set. Still with this in mind, Gaegel's statistics did show that Thrupper was still better, but ultimately it does boil down to what you personally want to use, which I think is great character design personally.
I was certainly one to think SAK was still the best move due to the versatility and ease of use, but I hadnt really considered the high level use. Tho I do think it is still fair to say SAK is best for beginners because it so easy to use. But you have convinced me Thrupper is superior in an objective sense
Ima be completely honest rn Brawler's moveset could simply consist of nair, thrupper and grab and he would still be playable even on top level. Those three moves make a super solid gameplan on their own, just for anyone who plays them to add anything they like to use on top like a pizza topping :p Amazing video as always, man!
As a MII Brawler main, i use Thrust Uppercut, but i prefer helicopter kick cause i feel like killing players horizontally is easier and quicker than Vertically
Amazing video as always :) I basically dual main Thrupper and SAK. I use SAK against characters where you can reverse SAK edguard or characters that space aerials from a distance on your shield (or sometimes just jumpy/floaty characters as SAK is a good antiair), or even just against players who don't know SAK as they've only played against thrupper. Otherwise, there's thrupper. Brawler doesn't need to have 1 definite best up b with the best machup spread- just switch to the best depending on matchup (assuming your tourney allows this!)
Gaegel, I've changed mains quite a few times and I've never seen guides and videos as in-depth and entertaining as yours. Thanks so much for the amazing content. Please keep it up🙏🏽🙏🏽
With esam using and advocating for flaming drop kick over suplex, you could probably have a similar discussion between those two. Esam really values the movement option fdk gives for disadvantage and edgeguarding so it’s a really interesting argument
Brilliant statistical analysis! I like how in depth this is. Similarly to how you stated that 13x2 is uncontestedly the best group of brawler movesets, I've been working on the worst movesets both in theory craft and in practice and have found 31x3 to be pretty dominant at being the worst mii brawler can get. It is tricky to determine which up special is the worst on a moveset without the horizontal recovery from either burning dropkick nor feint jump.
@@Gaegel I have been finding that I agree that helikick still is the worst but I was also aware that my minimal use of helikick hindered it's full potential. It is very nice to hear that an authority in the field of mii brawlers also feels like helikick is still the worst even without added horizontal recovery from other specials.
HeliKick in my experience is really good against zoners where you can scare them into a corner and get in around their projectiles to get a HeliKick confirm, and Thrupper better against rushdown/footsies characters since you can catch them mid stage. SAK is better if you have cheese potential or really need the range out of shield. All in all, all 3 are good in unique situations.
Personally I use SAK because it just combo confirms in almost any percent with a good percent of the cast with (nair) d tilt and sometimes up tilt, up air and down grab (down grab is not really a confirm but it feels like it) and it's just utter mental damage against other unfortunate players. Another reason why I solo main sak is because if you suicide spike they always die first compared to the other characters with the same up b shenanigans, asides from Ike and maybe chrom.
My favorite confirm with thrupper is calling out a jump with a full hop up air, auto cancel on plat, and thrupper. It’s not a crazy combo by any means but it’s so satisfying getting a kill midstage at like 70% from a rising aerial
SAK isn't a main course like thrupper or hk, it's a sauce, it's a move that you use to have your good parts better, but it doesn't do what most brawlers struggle to do kill. It is good with brawler's kit, but the playstyle of an aggressive brawler is so common it feels off (I am not the best brawler to show this in action but it's just what it looks like.) I feel that SAK is the most neutral and patient up b by a long shot
Hope you will do "how to use Counter Throw" soon! literally that's my favorite Moveset when going against opponents in smash online! I gotta say, counter throw is a god moveset to me :)
I very strongly appreciate this kind of content. I know it would NEVER happen but would be interesting, I have been toying around with intentionally creating the worst mii brawler moveset. It is easy to determine the worst move for neutral, side, and down special. However with up special, I wonder: when designing a build without either burning dropkick nor feint jump if soaring axe kick and/or thrupper become worse than heli kick for the recovery catigory. Again not possible to test because every high level mii brawler emplores at least one extra horizontal recovery move so
I find it funny that, just like in Smash 4, Brawler Mains are beginning to realize that the Up-Special that sends your opponent up and gives you a better recovery is better than the one that has incredible killing power but a poor recovery. Both are still incredibly fun to use I just like the lightning fast Thrupper better, although killing Bowser at 56% off the side of Town and City from a down tilt does give me a good chuckle. 😁
I used to use Thrupper but switched to Helikick because a) it's less punishable on whiff b) the additional horizontal recovery range, combined with Feint Jump, means you can recover from the blast zone 99% of the time c) if you accidentally Up-B the wrong way when beloiw the stage, you can still grab ledge (whereas Thrupper doesn't have the drift) and finally d) it's waaay easier to 0-death someone with Heli. Based on your analysis, maybe I'll switch back and see how I go...
Heli kill % is wrong. Very wrong. My issue with thrupper is how situational an early kill is. Thrupper needs a platform to do the same things Heli kick does at ledge. Thrupper does not linger and stage positioning means nothing. . Since HK lasts as long as it does it's a much better anti air that, when successful usually creates an edge guard scenario which is closer to death than a juggle. . HK attacks over the ledge with a better pay off than SAK I think it's better on block too but idk. If it connects, either wins you stage control, sets up ledge trap, or sets up a tech scenario . It does kill earlier but instead lemme just say it's better at punishing air dodges because of the average heights of air dodges. . Actually has mix up potential Thrupper doesn't have the potential to constantly put people in danger only to take stocks (with platforms) if you aren't taking the stock it does not put you in a better position and quite frankly it doesn't look cool
I think that heli kick is probably better than SAK because it plays more to brawler's strength's and needs. They need to be a threatening character that can blow you up with the right starter since they lack range, aren't particularly fast, etc and while SAK helps these to some extent, you sacrifice what makes brawler worth playing. Thrupper is still better like you said tho
yea tbh i feel like helikick was more broken in s4 than this game and from my experience with brawler(and im not that good + im a very feel based player) i tried all 3 and thrupper is only one i really use, idc if its not best for recovery bc its out of shield too good sometimes to make them respect you and my favorite kills are when you snipe someone really high up trying to land bc they think they are safe. i do swap to SAK occasionally but that shit slow af and i only get the gimp on accidents lmfao
Im not going to argue with Thrupper being his best up-b since thats objectively true. But the concept of Solo main Single Set Brawler is just wrong from the beginning. Also in defence of some points of SAK: First, Yes its only a good killmove as a burst option around 150 but thats why I think u should combine It with FMP NOT SHOTPUT, just the fact that u have a good killconfirm from landing up air helps a lot. Secondly, as an oos its still 6 frames faster and a bigger threat at higher percent then Suplex. There alot of tilts that would be safe normaly if there spaced but Sak can TRUE punish then. More importantly is I belief the fact that Sak compliments Suplex as an Oos. Even if a move is a few frames of to be a true Sak punish or to hard to react to in practice. If an oppent doesnt respect Sak they going to get hit. If they give the move some respect then there most likely to shield even after they space there tilts. If they do that suplex will love it. Thirdly didnt u find some footstool Sak stuff? Propably helps for certain matchups and make it oos even better if mastered. Fourth, in terms of its cheese the thing that I never saw Brawlerplayers do enough was to go for a suicide edgeguard attempt based on reaction. For example, if Brawler only goes for the first Sak hit he can still grab the ledge backwards. So one can run of fastfall and time the sak so u are in perfect position to grab the ledge. Its covers a good area for how fast it is and if its hit, u can react to it and get a stocktrade at early percent. And if it doesnt hit, well u just grab the ledge backwards.
I love that you always clikbait "HELIKICK BROKEN!?!?!?!" in all of your videos where you just shit on Helikick the entire time lol I can't tell if it's a bit or your just clickbaiting but it's hilarious either way
![เปิดบ้าน นาราเครปกระเทย 1 ไร่ ขายขาดทุนหลัก10ล้าน เอามาใช้หนี้!!! l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0jz84VFWVP4/mqdefault.jpg)
I saw the title and for a second thought you'd been paid off by the HeliCult
n e v e r
"Sure, there are combo routes that can escort your opponent right to the blast zone. You don't have to tell me, I invented those!" is one of the greatest flexes of all time
8:06 that was too smooth
As someone who lives in the same region as Ghost, I really only ever see Thrupper. He's known for only going Helikick as a joke. While you say that Thrupper wasn't used out of shield that much, it still holds a threat at quite high percents as any miss spaced moves will probably get punish.
True, in some matchups it can still be really good to close out a stock
I live in Victoria and have seen some Ghost play, I main Mii Brawler myself now and prefer Axe Kick for spacing and potential death at 0. I think Thrupper is less viable with our current stage roster, if we had more triplats/ stages with platforms like Yoshi's Thrupper would be way more viable
Yeah that's true, not having Yoshis does suck for Brawler especially since he'd usually get a good platform stage every single set. Still with this in mind, Gaegel's statistics did show that Thrupper was still better, but ultimately it does boil down to what you personally want to use, which I think is great character design personally.
@@notechneek_ssbu every legal plat stage in genesis but tnc and kalos are incredible for thrupper though?
Your Mii Brawler guides never cease to amaze, Gaegel!
I was certainly one to think SAK was still the best move due to the versatility and ease of use, but I hadnt really considered the high level use. Tho I do think it is still fair to say SAK is best for beginners because it so easy to use. But you have convinced me Thrupper is superior in an objective sense
Ima be completely honest rn
Brawler's moveset could simply consist of nair, thrupper and grab and he would still be playable even on top level. Those three moves make a super solid gameplan on their own, just for anyone who plays them to add anything they like to use on top like a pizza topping :p
Amazing video as always, man!
That intro was the most detailed avatar reference I’ve seen on TH-cam in a while
I had to completely re-edit the music cause the instrumental-only version is way longer/different than the original
But it was absolutely worth it :D
@@Gaegel yes. Definitely. Absolutely. It a was a wonderful reference and I love the idea that auto cancel fair is the avatar
The moment you said “standard deviation” I got PTSD
As a MII Brawler main, i use Thrust Uppercut, but i prefer helicopter kick cause i feel like killing players horizontally is easier and quicker than Vertically
Aight that intro was godlike 😭
0:01 - 0:45 Love that part!
Amazing video as always :) I basically dual main Thrupper and SAK.
I use SAK against characters where you can reverse SAK edguard or characters that space aerials from a distance on your shield (or sometimes just jumpy/floaty characters as SAK is a good antiair), or even just against players who don't know SAK as they've only played against thrupper. Otherwise, there's thrupper. Brawler doesn't need to have 1 definite best up b with the best machup spread- just switch to the best depending on matchup (assuming your tourney allows this!)
Remember to like how not to use head on assault so we can get the onslaught video! I'm counting on you!
I use to use 1112 so I would love to see what video Gaegel would make about it.
Gaegel, I've changed mains quite a few times and I've never seen guides and videos as in-depth and entertaining as yours. Thanks so much for the amazing content. Please keep it up🙏🏽🙏🏽
With esam using and advocating for flaming drop kick over suplex, you could probably have a similar discussion between those two. Esam really values the movement option fdk gives for disadvantage and edgeguarding so it’s a really interesting argument
Brilliant statistical analysis! I like how in depth this is. Similarly to how you stated that 13x2 is uncontestedly the best group of brawler movesets, I've been working on the worst movesets both in theory craft and in practice and have found 31x3 to be pretty dominant at being the worst mii brawler can get. It is tricky to determine which up special is the worst on a moveset without the horizontal recovery from either burning dropkick nor feint jump.
True, I think Helikick might still be the worst for such a moveset just because of how exposed it is, but it probably doesn't matter too much
@@Gaegel I have been finding that I agree that helikick still is the worst but I was also aware that my minimal use of helikick hindered it's full potential. It is very nice to hear that an authority in the field of mii brawlers also feels like helikick is still the worst even without added horizontal recovery from other specials.
I rotate all the up-b’s when I play, but the most fun were heli kick and Trupper. SAK is cool but not as fun and no ladder combos on plats
The Thrupper buff was one of the best things that could have happened to Brawler and this video proves it :>
Absolutely!
this is cool and all.. but i still need to know how to use onslaught!!!!
Don't.
Great video as always, every time I watch your videos I want to play mii brawler but then I remember I don’t own a switch
bro, the intro was perfect. all 4 viable specials living in harmony, but then some heli-kick-believers attacked the pro mii brawler players opinions.
That intro was gold
HeliKick in my experience is really good against zoners where you can scare them into a corner and get in around their projectiles to get a HeliKick confirm, and Thrupper better against rushdown/footsies characters since you can catch them mid stage. SAK is better if you have cheese potential or really need the range out of shield. All in all, all 3 are good in unique situations.
YOOO love that intro!! New to your channel and loving all your mii brawler vids :)
You get a like for that intro immediately
Personally I use SAK because it just combo confirms in almost any percent with a good percent of the cast with (nair) d tilt and sometimes up tilt, up air and down grab (down grab is not really a confirm but it feels like it) and it's just utter mental damage against other unfortunate players. Another reason why I solo main sak is because if you suicide spike they always die first compared to the other characters with the same up b shenanigans, asides from Ike and maybe chrom.
Agreed. Been maining Brawler for 2 years now and have tried them all, Thrupper just works the most
My favorite confirm with thrupper is calling out a jump with a full hop up air, auto cancel on plat, and thrupper. It’s not a crazy combo by any means but it’s so satisfying getting a kill midstage at like 70% from a rising aerial
SAK isn't a main course like thrupper or hk, it's a sauce, it's a move that you use to have your good parts better, but it doesn't do what most brawlers struggle to do kill. It is good with brawler's kit, but the playstyle of an aggressive brawler is so common it feels off (I am not the best brawler to show this in action but it's just what it looks like.) I feel that SAK is the most neutral and patient up b by a long shot
I find it interesting to see the meta develop for brawler. I find myself playing thrupper even against swords at this point, it’s so good. Good vid!
Hope you will do "how to use Counter Throw" soon! literally that's my favorite Moveset when going against opponents in smash online!
I gotta say, counter throw is a god moveset to me :)
@@SaphStrumm very true👍
I very strongly appreciate this kind of content. I know it would NEVER happen but would be interesting, I have been toying around with intentionally creating the worst mii brawler moveset. It is easy to determine the worst move for neutral, side, and down special. However with up special, I wonder: when designing a build without either burning dropkick nor feint jump if soaring axe kick and/or thrupper become worse than heli kick for the recovery catigory. Again not possible to test because every high level mii brawler emplores at least one extra horizontal recovery move so
binge watching your channel, awesome videos
Thanks for doing all of this work for the brawler community. All those sets must have been daunting!
It took a while, but I also learned a lot!
As a thrupper purist I approve of this video
I find it funny that, just like in Smash 4, Brawler Mains are beginning to realize that the Up-Special that sends your opponent up and gives you a better recovery is better than the one that has incredible killing power but a poor recovery. Both are still incredibly fun to use I just like the lightning fast Thrupper better, although killing Bowser at 56% off the side of Town and City from a down tilt does give me a good chuckle. 😁
I think the algorithm did you dirty man.
I hadn’t noticed you uploaded!
Great content, as always. 😁👍 Can we get a four-part series of all the best b - specials? Please 🙏
Could be an idea, although the other specials are a lot easier to decide for (neutralB could be interesting tho)
I used to use Thrupper but switched to Helikick because a) it's less punishable on whiff b) the additional horizontal recovery range, combined with Feint Jump, means you can recover from the blast zone 99% of the time c) if you accidentally Up-B the wrong way when beloiw the stage, you can still grab ledge (whereas Thrupper doesn't have the drift) and finally d) it's waaay easier to 0-death someone with Heli. Based on your analysis, maybe I'll switch back and see how I go...
Tried it, too punishable, went back.
I really liked the video. You could definitly see, that you put a lot of effort into it! :D
thrupper gang forever
HeliCult BABY!
SAK is basically a slightly worse Bayo D-Air since it has slightly less kill power and it spikes perfectly.
Great vid
I thought you were converted to the helicult for a minute I got scared
Heli kill % is wrong. Very wrong. My issue with thrupper is how situational an early kill is. Thrupper needs a platform to do the same things Heli kick does at ledge. Thrupper does not linger and stage positioning means nothing.
. Since HK lasts as long as it does it's a much better anti air that, when successful usually creates an edge guard scenario which is closer to death than a juggle.
. HK attacks over the ledge with a better pay off than SAK I think it's better on block too but idk. If it connects, either wins you stage control, sets up ledge trap, or sets up a tech scenario
. It does kill earlier but instead lemme just say it's better at punishing air dodges because of the average heights of air dodges.
. Actually has mix up potential
Thrupper doesn't have the potential to constantly put people in danger only to take stocks (with platforms) if you aren't taking the stock it does not put you in a better position and quite frankly it doesn't look cool
If you'd prefer a juggle it's not off the table with HK either. I keep pushing out til I know it'll mix em up and they kill themselves with DI
2:16 wait since when do Mii brawlers have the option for 45 UP SPECIALS?
I think that heli kick is probably better than SAK because it plays more to brawler's strength's and needs. They need to be a threatening character that can blow you up with the right starter since they lack range, aren't particularly fast, etc and while SAK helps these to some extent, you sacrifice what makes brawler worth playing. Thrupper is still better like you said tho
MOM I'M ON TV
Thrupper is my BOI
yea tbh i feel like helikick was more broken in s4 than this game and from my experience with brawler(and im not that good + im a very feel based player) i tried all 3 and thrupper is only one i really use, idc if its not best for recovery bc its out of shield too good sometimes to make them respect you and my favorite kills are when you snipe someone really high up trying to land bc they think they are safe. i do swap to SAK occasionally but that shit slow af and i only get the gimp on accidents lmfao
Im not going to argue with Thrupper being his best up-b since thats objectively true. But the concept of Solo main Single Set Brawler is just wrong from the beginning. Also in defence of some points of SAK:
First, Yes its only a good killmove as a burst option around 150 but thats why I think u should combine It with FMP NOT SHOTPUT, just the fact that u have a good killconfirm from landing up air helps a lot.
Secondly, as an oos its still 6 frames faster and a bigger threat at higher percent then Suplex. There alot of tilts that would be safe normaly if there spaced but Sak can TRUE punish then. More importantly is I belief the fact that Sak compliments Suplex as an Oos. Even if a move is a few frames of to be a true Sak punish or to hard to react to in practice. If an oppent doesnt respect Sak they going to get hit. If they give the move some respect then there most likely to shield even after they space there tilts. If they do that suplex will love it.
Thirdly didnt u find some footstool Sak stuff? Propably helps for certain matchups and make it oos even better if mastered.
Fourth, in terms of its cheese the thing that I never saw Brawlerplayers do enough was to go for a suicide edgeguard attempt based on reaction. For example, if Brawler only goes for the first Sak hit he can still grab the ledge backwards. So one can run of fastfall and time the sak so u are in perfect position to grab the ledge. Its covers a good area for how fast it is and if its hit, u can react to it and get a stocktrade at early percent. And if it doesnt hit, well u just grab the ledge backwards.
10 seconds into the video but my answer is "no"
Bro Mii brawler smash 4 is back??
Suplex and feint jump are training wheels
SAK and shotput are inconsistent for anything other than chip damage
I like sak cause i like recovering :^)
I love that you always clikbait "HELIKICK BROKEN!?!?!?!" in all of your videos where you just shit on Helikick the entire time lol
I can't tell if it's a bit or your just clickbaiting but it's hilarious either way
I’ve been saying Thrupper is the best since the first day it got buffed. SAK is super overrated and Helikick is too situational.
Heli Kult!
Gaming
Gamer
Gamign
Games
@@Gaegel what da gaggle doin
Gamage
Where's the lasagna
"No"
L clickbait
Sub just for the Avatar references