@@tommytwogloves16 Yes beware of apparitions, bc not all are from God. But Fatima miracle of the sun was witnessed by hundreds of thousands. Also beware of YT commenters that call themselves The Traditionalist. Sounds like a troll but I am scrutinizing the claims.
@@alicer9390 The true Sister Lucia would have hold with mother Mary's Statement. The false Sister did denie before Pope John Paul ll.Truth or falsehood...we have to stand with the Truth what Mother Mary told us in Fatima!!! Thank you dear Mother Mary, you said the same in Garabandal 1961 - 1965. THANK YOU MOTHER MARY ❤
Don't get me started. I had gorgeous teeth, according to others. They remained bright white well into my 40s. Unfortunately, I had a condition which prevented calcium from being absorbed into my bones, leaving free floating calcium in my body looking for a place to land so to speak. Most people with the condition end up with calcium deposits on their shoulders, but I ended up with calcium being secreted in saliva and deposited on my teeth, eventually being forced under the gum line. Fought it for years through cleanings and lots of dental work. I had to get crowns made from casts of my natural teeth, but the calcium deposits had altered the way the teeth set in my gums, affecting my bite...and the castings only made it worse. If you take someone from back in the old days, most of them just had their teeth pulled whenever there was any problem, and then they got dentures, not crowns. Either way, crowns or dentures, you will see huge differences in dental characteristics.
I have supported Fr. Gruner and John Venarri for years. And because they forward the cause of Fatima, I will continue to do so. But If the two Sister Lucys in question were posted on baseball cards, a child would know which one had value. It is impossible to mistake Sister Lucy 1 for Sister Lucy 2. Further, pictures of Sister Lucy 1 are always older, always in black and white. There are no later years pics and none in color. Whereas Sister Lucy 2 is often found in living color. Two different women, two different time periods consistent with two women. Something's up. Don't toss out the obvious just because the sedevacatists stubbed their toe on this first. Its true, its obvious, and it needs to be dealt with.
You could make the same argument about me. I was born in the era of black and white photography. Color film was too expensive. If you compare my earliest pictures with later pictures, noting that some are in black and white while the later ones are in color, all you'll prove is that color photography supplanted black and white.
Mostly agree but I dare not to come to a conclusion. I showed photos to non-catholic around me and none of them said these are photos of the same person. I also heard Sister Lucia 2 wrote something misleading and behaved very unlike the true one.
I think if she was martyred the motive may have even more sinister. In light of the laicization of Fr. Frank (and the obvious infiltration of the clergy) I think the true whole secret, very clearly stated this infiltration.
It's clear. The real sister Lucia was very concerned that the request of our blessed Mother we're not being carried out concerning revealing the third secret to the world....she was silenced.
John Z , ....and also proves the Pope in charge does not care about Sister Lucia ! he is fooling everyone in the name of Satan; and he is trying to get his goal of complete dominance BEFORE any truth is exposed. Most people who doesn't know any better is helping delay exposure & also giving evil all the time & power towards its success. 😈
And apparently eery pope since 1960... I don't want to to speak out erroneously against Pope's, but they have had and still have some explaining to do.
Their height should be compared, as is the size of their feet. In facial features, they are so dissimilar. The latter is not graceful in her movement. Does not even conduct herself as a nun. The nuns are usually have a certain walk and manner of conducting themselves.
Why? In order to prevent her from revealing the 3rd Secret of Fatima after the infiltrators who took over the Vatican decided it had to be buried, and also to allow them to concoct a Vatican II friendly, Modernist version of the Message of Fatima, which they did. See sisterlucytruth.org, also th-cam.com/channels/mJLcKSyO3CBtxJwddm0Ymg.html (the 2 short ones are a good place to start).
As to why, because the religion of real Lucy is catholicism, whereas the religion of the fake sister is Novus Ordo which is a pagan religion. Therefore you cannot have the real lucy agreeing to CV2 apostasy and JP2 apostasy and pagan altar of peace, or francis pachamama.
the big difference is in the eyes... Lucia THE REAL has the same kind of eyes as DEAR St Bernadette and St Theresa, Little Flower... go look... there's this intense "knowing"... beauty... even sadness... all three are so similar... the fake has none of that.... they (the three real saints) also exhume "Sincere Humility"... you can see it in their eyes...
The real Sister Lucia is a humble nun who wants to stay in a low profile while the impostor lucy wants attention and loved being paraded to the public by the liberal modernist popes! 🤷♂️
Exactly. The real Lucia received Holy Communion from an Angel. Watch how the 'Lucia' of the year 2000 receives Communion from JPII. She seems to be far more concerned with kissing JPII's ring than receiving Christ. If that is the same person she must have suffered some sort of mental breakdown at some point. May both of these men rest in peace.
I do not understand why the Fatima Center denies what is so obvious, based on the pictures. Grown up Sister Lucy is so different than the impostor, that there's no way to defend that. The fact that there's no information available as to why this happened, doesn't make it unreal. The fact that the impostor said that the consecration of Russia didn't happen, doesn't mean that she is the real Sister Lucy. // On the other hand, I can't believe that none of the Pope's since the Fatima apparitions ever did the consecration that our Mother asked. In my humble opinion, they didn't really believe that these (the apparitions) took place, because if they did, how can they put any world/man rationale (politics/religion) before what the Mother of God told them to do. / This is my Catholic Church, and I love it dearly, but our leadership, our Monarchs make you wonder so many things :( . / Still, my faith is as strong as ever. This is something I will never waive. ....I believe in the Holy Trinity, I believe that Mother Mary is a gift to men, to guide us to Jesus, I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, one, universal....., now, more than ever!!!! (in spite of.....so many things). VIVA CRISTO REY! I love you Jesus.
Agreed...there's no evidence that the individual who stated the consecration hadn't been done was the original Lucia. The fact remains she hadn't been seen in years. When I see those pics of JPII with the imposter, my blood boils. He helped perpetuate this malignant of the Fatima message.
@@inseasonandoutofseason generally speaking, all these commenters likely believe that the third secret of fatima was that there would be an incoming apostasy in the church. this is a sedevacantist line of argumentation
The biggest differences between the original sister Lucy and the so called impostor are the bite, the teeth, the eyes and the brow ridge. I showed all the photos of the two women to my dentist, without telling him who she was, (hes a Methodist who never goes to church, so he would have no dog in the fight anyway), but I was just curious if such a change could happen via cosmetic dentistry. He said that a change such as he saw on those photos could not be facilitated via dentistry. And the rest of the face would also require extreme plastic surgery. One woman has very crooked and long teeth with ridges, the other has very straight, short teeth that appear almost filed off. The two women have very different bites also. I asked him what about false teeth and a change in the bite and he said no. He said you make false teeth to match the size and shape of the teeth the person had before. So I asked him point blank what if someone expanded her palet to make room for her new straight teeth and just happened to give her short teeth lol He said even a palatal expander and a really bad set of false teeth would not cause the drastic changes between the two women. That's just one guy, giving his opinion but I believed what he was telling me. Also the original sister Lucy had a somewhat protruding brow ridge and smaller deeper set eyes, where the other has a straight brow ridge and larger almond shaped eyes. I think he might be onto something when he said maybe it was her cousin but why would a mother superior ask someone to lie about their name? I would never go along with that. Also the original sister Lucy was much taller...look how short the impostor is. There is no way to shrink someone 2 feet
Concerning the teeth: Ever occurred to you that as an old woman she might have had a full artificial denture (like many old people) not just a few cosmetically replaced teeth? With plastic teeth her teeth of course would be perfect.
Look at the fake Sr Lucy's teeth. Do those ugly looking teeth look like dentures to you? No general Dentist or one who specializes in dentures would in his right mind put his name to those awful looking teeth the second Lucy had . Furthermore, it goes beyond just teeth, the entire face is different. They are not the same woman.
Here's my theory: There are mentally ill people who murder famous people just to have their name on a historical record for eternity. It's their way to a sick sort of "fame". In the Fake Lucy's case, her mental illness only required that her FACE be made famous for eternity. For whatever reason , her real name and identity didn't matter to her. I believe she was put in the real Lucy's place in order to cover up the truth of the third secret and to allow the secret not to be revealed in 1960 as Our Lady wished. *In no way would the real Lucy have allowed Our Lady's wishes not to be fulfilled, she would have done virtually anything , even expose the Church, if Our Lady's wishes were not honored* As a devout Catholic, the Fake Lucy could have also thought that protecting the reputation of the Church was more important than anything else, including her own life and freedom. How did they recruit her? I think that an organization as big and powerful as the Catholic Church can do and get away with just about anything...including murder, recruiting agents, covering up crimes as in the pedophilia, etc etc. Nothing is beyond their reach.
The only problem with this theory, is that a chosen vessel of the blessed Mother could not be murdered by any agent of the evil one. She would have divine protection. She must have expired due to illness.
What exactly do you base this claim on? It sounds a little odd to me. Don’t we have a 6,000 year history of the chosen vessels of God being murdered? (Prophets, Apostles, martyrs, missionaries, our Lord Himself)?
I agree, because our lady said that the 3rd secret should be reveal at her death or 1960 which ever comes first.... well, to me that say that one of those was going to happen soon to stop Vatican ll from going through!
@@mauramillay5039 its revealed at her death...the fake lucy and fake ape church of hell in full swing..they kept a dummy john 23rd and john paul1 to formulate the plans and execute it with the jewish high priest paul6
@@binyamin3716 agree…. As anyone can see the Vatican ll church seeks to put woman in vestments and marry all same sex. All going according to plan. Praise God for TLM!
I was really curious about Sr. Lucia what she look like when she got old so I typed it here. As soon as I saw the video of her together with Pope John Paul II my first impression was like "ohh my gosh no! that cannot be the real Sr. Lucia" The facial difference is so huge.
Fr. Gruner did not provide an explanation. He stumbled, bumbled and evaded the question. Perhaps he had the same sort of "pastoral concerns" that the Modernists have: don't overwhelm the laity with the FULL truth. The late Gruner did good work that I appreciate, however he was not infallible and his response to a blatant and obvious deception about the very person of Sr. Lucia is profoundly disappointing.
Poor Father Gruner, he just did not know all the things we know now. He was such a single-minded promoter of Fatima and its complete message, that that is what he had to focus on. Such a holy man, God rest his soul. This is one of the very few things I would disagree with him on. There is more than ample proof that Sister Lucy was silenced by hook or by crook. Perhaps she died a natural death before being replaced. Either way, she was replaced and the false Sister Lucy promoted the new agenda of the Modernists every chance she got. This is one of the most brazen and shameful things that the NO church has done. In doing this, they undermined a direct action of the Queen of Heaven.
The story of the 3 children from Fatima is such an moving story. So powerful and full of love and dedication, and warnings of horror. And the loyalty and faith the children gives the angel and our holy mother. I am quite new to the details of this , but it has had a strong impact on me. And if Lucy were in any way treated wrongly by some powers at be, I am very sorry
and what kind of Saint would have surgery or changes to their looks out of vanity? none and neither would Lucia especially since she was in a convent where no one could see her in person there was a screen between her and any visitors mysteriously after 1960 and after Vatican II she comes forward looking like a totally different person because it was a totally different person
IT WAS SO CLEAR SHE WAS AN IMPOSTOR, THE REAL ONE HAD KIND OF LONG FACE AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FACIAL FISSURES, THE IMPOSTOR HAD A COMPLETELY ROUND FACE, THING LIPS, AND TOTALLY DIFFERENT FACIAL FISSURES, EVEN TEETH WERE SO DIFFERENT.
Surely, the Convent Lucia lived in would have proof that she had all her teeth removed and had dentures. The teeth of both these women look nothing alike.
The woman who appears with Paul VI in the 60's-70s looks already a different person. The differences are not light. Very shocking as everything after the Vatican II Revolution and desolation.
This video does not address the issue at all. If Cardinal Bertone could almost single handedly hold off the consecration with blatant lies, can you realistically defend that two different looking women are the same person? Acting like the fake Sister Lucy thing isn't possible is frustrating, especially with the later Lucy saying and doing such questionable things. Socci looked into Fatima and came out believing something he didn't think was possible. Someone should put him on the case.
WRONG. All genuine "seers" chosen by Mary who has perfect virtue, therefore perfect discernment, are holy, pious.early in life. @@MrJking1962 The Holy Mother of God as Mother of all the Living, Mother of the Word made Flesh, can read souls. You don't know what you are talking about. Only fraudulent "seers" are sinners like the rest of us.
I wish so badly that we had a well-spoken, mentally organized, articulate, logical clergy member, who can stop Sputtering around like this Fr. and just tell it to us straight. Either that..... or trust your own eyes ~ those are very clearly two different women ~ both in looks and demeanor ~ And I read some of the response comments and had to stop....... the deniers aren’t well ~
@@tomwolf8721 there have been some computer-generated models for the face of sister Lucy. The Aging models that they use for police work did not come up with the face of the last sister Lucy that we saw on TV.
@@Lucylou7070 what? I have an elderly mother. I've seen pictures of all my elderly relatives from birth to death. I've never seen those kind of changes. Major changes yes but not like that.
@@KristaLCPC The real 3rd fatima secret has not been revealed, the first 2 secrets were horrible, the last secret was obviously so terrible the church did not want it revealed. I believe they are one of the heads of the beast described in revelation.
@@KristaLCPC the third secret was to revealed at her death if it came first, before 1960. Carmelite necrology site records her death as may 31, 1949, just after she entered the Carmelite monastery, leaving the Dorothean order.
The JAW structure ( STRUCTURE ) changes???? Since when? What a fool... Anyway, despite all the OBVIOUS differences in the two women.. I can say this. Just like fingerprints.. NO two people have the same ear structure so find picture of both when they were younger and COMPARE the ears... NOBODY can fake that..
Sis Lucy's congregation can truly prove her real identify and where about, to wit: 1. When she died 2.Wheresheburied otherwise, there's intention of conspiracy. If so, WHY, WHY, WHY?
The records document that she died on may 31, 1949…the interview that was documented in the fifties must have been the imposter…I believe it’s only audio
Teeth don't change unless altered. Sister Lucia's teeth were not straight and small like imposter Lucy. Plus Sister Lucia she was older than imposter Lucy. Not buying it, not buying the 2nd lucy.
I believe that there was an imposter so that the real Sister Lucia would not speak to anyone and also so that she would act in a very friendly manner with Pope John Paul II and stand up to receive Holy Communion and such things that a thoroughly Novus Ordo nun would do. The imposter, if there was one, was nothing in appearance like Lucia and her family, sisters, etc... The death photo of Sister Lucia in her coffin, does look like Lucia's sister Carolina (who has been interviewed as an old woman). So I think she was kept away from the public because the real Lucia would not have fit the picture of the Novus Ordo nun. In her pictures, she looked like she definitely had "gravitas" that the imposter did not. I don't think Father was in denial, however. The only really important thing is the false statements and letters being exposed and he does this and always has. May he and John both rest in peace!
This like covering the sun with your hands..... Sister lucy s face at age 41 looks very much different than the one presented at age 71. The eyebrows, the eyes, the nose nostrils, chin, and jaw look different, in addition to her side view the nose and mouth look different. One face is oval, while the second face presented it is square. Please do not fool us..... we know it better.
i dont understand the first apparition in our lady of fatima is 1917 and sister lucia died 2005..how did she live that long?? it just did not make sense to me
Lucia didn't live that long. The fake did. I would estimate the fake was in her mid 70's, maybe 80, at the very most 85 when she died. If you look at pictures of her in 1967 she seemed to be in her late 30's to early 40's...meaning the fake was born somewhere around 1923 to 1930. The real Sr Lucia was born in 1907 some 15-25 yrs before the fake.
@@Lucylou7070 Mother Mary did not say Sister Lucia would live a long life. She said that Lucia would be here on Earth a while longer as opposed to her cousins who Our Lady would come for sooner.
@@spaceshipboy You're right. I wasn't quoting but recalling from memory. I have "Her Own Words..." so checked. Writing about the June 13 appearance (p252), Lucia wrote "I would like to ask you to take us to Heaven." She was told "Yes. I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer. Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved...establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.." Such a task takes time for such a young girl who had yet to attend school to learn reading/writing and enter a convent. So, over the years I took that to mean a long life. I think she did live a long life, and "some time longer" can be defined many ways.
Umm have these men seen the pictures of Lucy and the new thin lipped straight teeth,strong chin ,feminine brow line and short stature Lucy kissing P.J.P2 after communion? They are totally different people!!!!!!!!' The actions lol,like an actor everytime she's in lime light,new Lucy was vain that is no her!!!!
I totally agree with you. The demeanor of the Sr. Lucy in the video with Pope John Paul II is ludicrous, - so unlike the serious, humble Lucia dos Santos.
all the information one requires in regards to this theory can be found on Sister Lucy Truth, the documentary is on going, to get full details go to their site on u tube, the investigation is on going
the two pictures sure look like different people, I know having her teeth fixed would change her looks somewhat but not that drastically!! I really don't think the Church had her murdered though that's just a bit to far out...idk what happened
Carmelite nuns were not in a financial situation to have Lucy’s teeth completely changed, especially at that period of time. Her family would have to have paid for it and they were poor peasants in Portugal ! Definitely didn’t happen!
Yes different peoples. How can they pull this off. It would take the cooperation of so many peoples to keep it going, even family members an the congregation.
@@dahlenepretorius4380 there is a photo of her that is said to be from 1957 but it couldn’t be…because she is not wearing the Carmelite habit. She is wearing the Dorothean habit which was the religious order she left…long before 1957.
So sorry to say this but Father John talks tooo fast and its difficult to understand. And concerning the two Lucias, they are completely DIFFERENT. people don't change like that
There was an imposter just look at the photographs of the original she was very homely and had spaces between here visible teeth. the imposter was stouter and her teeth were perfect. She was not homely and one can see what I saw for your self there is a video here on you tube that covers this do the research.
+Susan Barrett Teeth are always perfect when you wear dentures. Its clear to me that those are dentures in the later pictures. Other than that, she looks the same, only older. Look at pictures of people when they are young and then old. Big changes! But the basic structures are there.
+Susan Barrett Shape of the face can be deceiving. Skin and flesh are firm with youth. Everything sags in old age. I think forensics go beyond that and look at more markers, such as pupil distance and the like. I'm with Father Gruner on this. don't think you can jump to conclusions based on a couple of photos over decades. And that people would even use the teeth argument is beyond me.
+wisdaniel skin yes but not bone structure I took anatomy and physiology and art in college I know bone structure and you can do some research on that yourself. She was replaced and I know why.
Dr. Peter Chojnowski is leading a panel of experts of various recognition fields to investigate this question. Follow his reports here: radtradthomist.chojnowski.me/
This is why I can"t reconcile w many of the actions of JP2. He was in thick w Sr. Lucy, so it appears, and he said that 3rd secret was about his assassination attempt.
@@alicer9390 Many speculate that the switch was made when Pius XII was Pope. It’s said to have been done without him knowing by church officials…Pius XII was Pope until 1958... JPII may not have known…
@@premapriti8888 - True, and I actually did consider that. While I can't know for sure, I eventually came to doubt JP2 after he said the 3rd Secret was about his assassination attempt (how convenient), with the Koran on the altar, his canonization of Sr. Faustina and the whole Divine Mercy thing, after it was rejected by 2 previous popes, and NOT for issues of translation, as is alleged (Fr. Patrick Perez did a nice job succinctly summarizing that issue) and other things. I could be wrong, but it gives me the impression that he may have been intentionally deceptive, and disingenuous, as compared to those who openly embrace Mpdernism. I would love to be wrong about that impression, though, but so far, I don't see how it can be reconciled.
Sorry to say that John Vennari blunders here. He makes pronouncements that "people's appearance can change," and suchlike. John was not qualified to dismiss scientific evidence with a wave of the hand. And there is a mountain of evidence that didn't exist in 2014.
Hi. Thanks for all the videos. But I want to suggest adding subtitles at the bottom. It is very difficult to understand some of you, like Fr. Gruner, for the worst example. So I don't bother listening.
This is horrible but I guess it can be expected from the devil who is powerful and desperate to confuse everyone. May God have mercy on those playing a part in this act.
For the love of God and Truth, are you nuts? Sure, she not only got YOUNGER, HER ENTIRE BONE STRUCTURE CHANGED! As for the last secret.... it foretold the APOSTASY OF THE CHURCH WILL BEGIN AT THE VERY TOP! As a Roman Catholic, there are many things, including the beatificato of Teresa of Calcutta, that are causing me to question the church I've loved my whole life. I'm too old and too sick to have the rug pulled from under my feet.
Don't worry, the new canonisations after 1983 are no longer acts of the papal magisterium and hence are not covered under infallibility. See a great explanation on the SSPX website. (Beatifications have never been infallible.) God bless
I knew that when I was in Fatima, I had a bad vibe there even I didn't know what it was, I knew something was wrong and my hunches are never wrong.Though it is a beautiful place,I was still impressive.
Thats right.. i believe he was purshed down the stairs he even admitted before he died that someone pushed him. Its because he was slowly revealing the 3rd secret bit by bit
I am an sspx member and even there believe in the fake sister Lucy. Is amazing to me that people don't see the difference between the real Lucy and the fake. I ask with the pictures side by side to a member of my family who no know anything about Fatima who is a doctor and the conclusion: the most logical one, is not the same person! Is easy to see if you are not pre disposal!
A most valid and important point. Father Gruner begins to point out in this video (6:00 - 6:40) the introduction of fraudulent, type-written letters attributed to Sister Lucy. On our website you can read more about this, including the fact that a forensic expert in hand-writing who examined one of those letters declared that the person who signed it was not the author of Sister Lucy's Memoirs. (Cf. archive.fatima.org/crusader/cr63/cr63pg11.asp) More recently another letter attributed to Sister Lucy (dating back to December 27, 1969, and published by Dr. A. M. Martins in his "Memorias e Cartas da Irma Lucia," p. 450) urging an obsequious docility toward Pope Paul VI, has also been determined by a hand-writing expert to be a forgery.
In modern technology BC there are functions to help you receive from this presentation the perfection of every human mind, meaning demonstrative objective truth about things. Christ is objective truth Himself.
Regardless of a stand-in for sister Lucy and I do believe there was a fake sister Lucy even the fake sister Lucy would have to say the consecration did not play place because the criteria for the consecration has been made public for many years prior to the 1980s so even the fake one would have to say it didn't fit the criteria because the criteria have been made public for a long time .
Good point. I think what happened is that the fake Lucy said that the 1984 consecration was "accepted" by God. That was all they needed and she received her 30 pieces.
So why do they both look so different from each other? Father Grunner is an intelligent person but I think he is in BIG DENIAL. The changes in face is true but this change is entirely a whole person. Father Grunner was kinda lost in translation for a while. Obviously in big denial. Oh well….now he knows the truth!
+Marivic Baltasar Sometimes it comes down to a death threat and many reverse their opinion. It happens quite frequently we call it suicided even popes have seen that Pope Paul I believe a few decades ago. I am sure there were others. Ever hear of the Black Pope?
there are traces even after 30 years. this i a totaly different person. no similarities at all. the teeth of the original sister Lucy are jagged and crooked. the fake lucy has straight teeth....cmon dont blind yourself anymore.
Thank you ... I never understood anything the priest was saying. It sounded almost like deliberate mumbling with dates thrown around, people names, places, jumping from one train of thought to another, etc. In the end, what in the heck did he really believe?
On what he said he believes: - The real sister Lucia did not die when most Sedevacantists claim she did, cause years after that she spoke out against the Vatican not consecrating Russia, and cause her sister still met with her. - If she was replaced by an actress she only was on very few occasions. And while the real sister Lucia was still alive. Which is possible, cause apparently the real Sister Lucy had only very limited Media access throughout her life.
REALLY. Even as an old man, i wish he had looked at the camera and spoken slower. John could have told him this before. I had to sit right in front of the screen to understand this. I realize he was not all that technologically hip, bugt still...
I have witnessed 4 generation of family as well as seeing other families and we keep a family resemblance. If my aunt doesn't look like she used to she looks like her mother at the same age, which is today 100, her mother lived 2 more years, her daughter is fast approching her 101 birthday.
"even jaw structure changes over time"..!!? This entire video is not only unintelligible but a complete waste of time. This priest isn't the person able to clarify ANYTHING.
Catholic churches pray to the saints and angels as they would be asking anyone in the church of other Christians in general ( the saints on earth are all in the churches or Christian) asked to pray to Mary, as she was the earthly mom to Jesus , and walked most closely to Him while on earth , bringing Him up ( as He was made flesh and dwelt among us) and He loved her as we love our mom. So as we ask people on earth to "pray for us" we have a" heaven on earth, and a heavenly church and earthly church, and we all live forever no matter where we are or in what form. Ice can be frozen or melt and be water or become gas. It is always water though, in other forms. So spirit is alive and can hear and see in spiritual ways and in with us on earth in that way. IF we CALL on them. (But we know Jesus will answer ,as He is God.) But, we can ( and often do) also ask others to pray for us or help ask Jesus . " Where two or more join together, I am with you"
The evidence has become overwhelming since the making of this video. The real sister Lucy has not been seen since 1958 or 1959.
The real Sister Lucia was a cloistered Carmelite who was rarely permitted to leave the Carmel of Coimbra.
Convenient, eh?
@@DefaultName-hs6gd that’s part of being cloistered you do not mingle with the outside world but devote your life to prayer.
@@anng.4542 She was murdered.
@@realEmoSedillo exactly
oh my dear God in whom can I trust, when even our priest's can not agree. Lord keep me on the right path to your salvation.
St. John of the Cross said: “Beware of apparitions. Especially authentic ones!”
The Holy Spirit wrote the Bible. You can start there.
There is plenty of evidence of Fatima. I am open to truth, but The Traditionalist sounds like a troll, I am scrutinizing the claims.
@@tommytwogloves16 Yes beware of apparitions, bc not all are from God. But Fatima miracle of the sun was witnessed by hundreds of thousands. Also beware of YT commenters that call themselves The Traditionalist. Sounds like a troll but I am scrutinizing the claims.
@@alicer9390 The true Sister Lucia would have hold with mother Mary's Statement. The false Sister did denie before Pope John Paul ll.Truth or falsehood...we have to stand with the Truth what Mother Mary told us in Fatima!!!
Thank you dear Mother Mary, you said the same in Garabandal 1961 - 1965. THANK YOU MOTHER MARY ❤
Dental differences are huge
Don't get me started. I had gorgeous teeth, according to others. They remained bright white well into my 40s. Unfortunately, I had a condition which prevented calcium from being absorbed into my bones, leaving free floating calcium in my body looking for a place to land so to speak. Most people with the condition end up with calcium deposits on their shoulders, but I ended up with calcium being secreted in saliva and deposited on my teeth, eventually being forced under the gum line. Fought it for years through cleanings and lots of dental work. I had to get crowns made from casts of my natural teeth, but the calcium deposits had altered the way the teeth set in my gums, affecting my bite...and the castings only made it worse. If you take someone from back in the old days, most of them just had their teeth pulled whenever there was any problem, and then they got dentures, not crowns. Either way, crowns or dentures, you will see huge differences in dental characteristics.
I have supported Fr. Gruner and John Venarri for years. And because they forward the cause of Fatima, I will continue to do so. But If the two Sister Lucys in question were posted on baseball cards, a child would know which one had value. It is impossible to mistake Sister Lucy 1 for Sister Lucy 2. Further, pictures of Sister Lucy 1 are always older, always in black and white. There are no later years pics and none in color. Whereas Sister Lucy 2 is often found in living color. Two different women, two different time periods consistent with two women. Something's up. Don't toss out the obvious just because the sedevacatists stubbed their toe on this first. Its true, its obvious, and it needs to be dealt with.
You could make the same argument about me. I was born in the era of black and white photography. Color film was too expensive. If you compare my earliest pictures with later pictures, noting that some are in black and white while the later ones are in color, all you'll prove is that color photography supplanted black and white.
Mostly agree but I dare not to come to a conclusion. I showed photos to non-catholic around me and none of them said these are photos of the same person. I also heard Sister Lucia 2 wrote something misleading and behaved very unlike the true one.
I agree 100%! She’s a fraud! A five year-old child could tell the difference! They hasn’t been any truth out of the Vatican since 1958!
Motive for killing Sr Lucy was: the 3rd secret is about the 2 Vatican council and the changing of the holy mass
Lucia
I think if she was martyred the motive may have even more sinister. In light of the laicization of Fr. Frank (and the obvious infiltration of the clergy) I think the true whole secret, very clearly stated this infiltration.
@@padraicglynn2657 Lucy is short for Lucia.....it's called a nickname. It's like Dan or Danny is a nickname for Daniel
Name Means light 🙏
And lucifer.... ? 🤔 connecting any dots...?
She was clearly replaced.
It's clear. The real sister Lucia was very concerned that the request of our blessed Mother we're not being carried out concerning revealing the third secret to the world....she was silenced.
If the messages were not being carried out, Heaven knows this
The two Lucy's look nothing alike. They are entirely different people, that is obvious.
John Z , ....and also proves the Pope in charge does not care about Sister Lucia ! he is fooling everyone in the name of Satan; and he is trying to get his goal of complete dominance BEFORE any truth is exposed. Most people who doesn't know any better is helping delay exposure & also giving evil all the time & power towards its success. 😈
And apparently eery pope since 1960... I don't want to to speak out erroneously against Pope's, but they have had and still have some explaining to do.
Their height should be compared, as is the size of their feet. In facial features, they are so dissimilar. The latter is not graceful in her movement. Does not even conduct herself as a nun. The nuns are usually have a certain walk and manner of conducting themselves.
quite obvious
vatican 2 is not catholic.
All the pictures portray two different women. For me, there's no question about it. As to why we have a phony sister Lucia, I have no clue.
Why? In order to prevent her from revealing the 3rd Secret of Fatima after the infiltrators who took over the Vatican decided it had to be buried, and also to allow them to concoct a Vatican II friendly, Modernist version of the Message of Fatima, which they did. See sisterlucytruth.org, also th-cam.com/channels/mJLcKSyO3CBtxJwddm0Ymg.html (the 2 short ones are a good place to start).
@@darrelldw713 yes…control!
As to why, because the religion of real Lucy is catholicism, whereas the religion of the fake sister is Novus Ordo which is a pagan religion. Therefore you cannot have the real lucy agreeing to CV2 apostasy and JP2 apostasy and pagan altar of peace, or francis pachamama.
The real Sister Lucia was not a happy, smiley person because she saw hell. The imposter was so happy, so happy.
the big difference is in the eyes... Lucia THE REAL has the same kind of eyes as DEAR St Bernadette and St Theresa, Little Flower... go look... there's this intense "knowing"... beauty... even sadness... all three are so similar... the fake has none of that.... they (the three real saints) also exhume "Sincere Humility"... you can see it in their eyes...
The real Sister Lucia is a humble nun who wants to stay in a low profile while the impostor lucy wants attention and loved being paraded to the public by the liberal modernist popes! 🤷♂️
Exactly. The real Lucia received Holy Communion from an Angel. Watch how the 'Lucia' of the year 2000 receives Communion from JPII. She seems to be far more concerned with kissing JPII's ring than receiving Christ. If that is the same person she must have suffered some sort of mental breakdown at some point. May both of these men rest in peace.
YES, IT WAS A FAKE LUCIA.
I do not understand why the Fatima Center denies what is so obvious, based on the pictures. Grown up Sister Lucy is so different than the impostor, that there's no way to defend that. The fact that there's no information available as to why this happened, doesn't make it unreal. The fact that the impostor said that the consecration of Russia didn't happen, doesn't mean that she is the real Sister Lucy. // On the other hand, I can't believe that none of the Pope's since the Fatima apparitions ever did the consecration that our Mother asked. In my humble opinion, they didn't really believe that these (the apparitions) took place, because if they did, how can they put any world/man rationale (politics/religion) before what the Mother of God told them to do. / This is my Catholic Church, and I love it dearly, but our leadership, our Monarchs make you wonder so many things :( . / Still, my faith is as strong as ever. This is something I will never waive. ....I believe in the Holy Trinity, I believe that Mother Mary is a gift to men, to guide us to Jesus, I believe in the Holy Catholic Church, one, universal....., now, more than ever!!!! (in spite of.....so many things). VIVA CRISTO REY! I love you Jesus.
Agreed...there's no evidence that the individual who stated the consecration hadn't been done was the original Lucia. The fact remains she hadn't been seen in years. When I see those pics of JPII with the imposter, my blood boils. He helped perpetuate this malignant of the Fatima message.
You’re absolutely right
someone tell me what is the motivation for "a sister lucy that disappeared and a now fake one?" I mean whY?
@@inseasonandoutofseason generally speaking, all these commenters likely believe that the third secret of fatima was that there would be an incoming apostasy in the church. this is a sedevacantist line of argumentation
You just need common sense to see the big difference. Even kids can tell. The teeth,brows,nose,chin etc. huge difference.
"pray the rosary every day" --- Our Lady of Fatima --- 1917 -
The biggest differences between the original sister Lucy and the so called impostor are the bite, the teeth, the eyes and the brow ridge. I showed all the photos of the two women to my dentist, without telling him who she was, (hes a Methodist who never goes to church, so he would have no dog in the fight anyway), but I was just curious if such a change could happen via cosmetic dentistry. He said that a change such as he saw on those photos could not be facilitated via dentistry. And the rest of the face would also require extreme plastic surgery. One woman has very crooked and long teeth with ridges, the other has very straight, short teeth that appear almost filed off. The two women have very different bites also. I asked him what about false teeth and a change in the bite and he said no. He said you make false teeth to match the size and shape of the teeth the person had before. So I asked him point blank what if someone expanded her palet to make room for her new straight teeth and just happened to give her short teeth lol He said even a palatal expander and a really bad set of false teeth would not cause the drastic changes between the two women. That's just one guy, giving his opinion but I believed what he was telling me. Also the original sister Lucy had a somewhat protruding brow ridge and smaller deeper set eyes, where the other has a straight brow ridge and larger almond shaped eyes. I think he might be onto something when he said maybe it was her cousin but why would a mother superior ask someone to lie about their name? I would never go along with that. Also the original sister Lucy was much taller...look how short the impostor is. There is no way to shrink someone 2 feet
Concerning the teeth: Ever occurred to you that as an old woman she might have had a full artificial denture (like many old people) not just a few cosmetically replaced teeth? With plastic teeth her teeth of course would be perfect.
Look at the fake Sr Lucy's teeth. Do those ugly looking teeth look like dentures to you? No general Dentist or one who specializes in dentures would in his right mind put his name to those awful looking teeth the second Lucy had . Furthermore, it goes beyond just teeth, the entire face is different. They are not the same woman.
Here's my theory: There are mentally ill people who murder famous people just to have their name on a historical record for eternity. It's their way to a sick sort of "fame". In the Fake Lucy's case, her mental illness only required that her FACE be made famous for eternity. For whatever reason , her real name and identity didn't matter to her. I believe she was put in the real Lucy's place in order to cover up the truth of the third secret and to allow the secret not to be revealed in 1960 as Our Lady wished. *In no way would the real Lucy have allowed Our Lady's wishes not to be fulfilled, she would have done virtually anything , even expose the Church, if Our Lady's wishes were not honored* As a devout Catholic, the Fake Lucy could have also thought that protecting the reputation of the Church was more important than anything else, including her own life and freedom. How did they recruit her? I think that an organization as big and powerful as the Catholic Church can do and get away with just about anything...including murder, recruiting agents, covering up crimes as in the pedophilia, etc etc. Nothing is beyond their reach.
The only problem with this theory, is that a chosen vessel of the blessed Mother could not be murdered by any agent of the evil one. She would have divine protection. She must have expired due to illness.
What exactly do you base this claim on? It sounds a little odd to me. Don’t we have a 6,000 year history of the chosen vessels of God being murdered? (Prophets, Apostles, martyrs, missionaries, our Lord Himself)?
i am convinced that there was subterfuge and that the genuine Lucia was either eliminated in 1959 or murdered
I agree, because our lady said that the 3rd secret should be reveal at her death or 1960 which ever comes first.... well, to me that say that one of those was going to happen soon to stop Vatican ll from going through!
Or, we could make the First Saturday Devotions and let Our Blessed Mother look after the rest.
You should be doing this anyway, but that's beside the point.
@@mauramillay5039 its revealed at her death...the fake lucy and fake ape church of hell in full swing..they kept a dummy john 23rd and john paul1 to formulate the plans and execute it with the jewish high priest paul6
@@binyamin3716 agree…. As anyone can see the Vatican ll church seeks to put woman in vestments and marry all same sex. All going according to plan. Praise God for TLM!
I was really curious about Sr. Lucia what she look like when she got old so I typed it here. As soon as I saw the video of her together with Pope John Paul II my first impression was like "ohh my gosh no! that cannot be the real Sr. Lucia" The facial difference is so huge.
Since I read the book, “ our Lady Came to Fatima, “ while in 7th grade , Fatima has inspired me .
You can tell John Vennari wasn’t buying Fr. Gruner’s explanation
Fr. Gruner did not provide an explanation. He stumbled, bumbled and evaded the question. Perhaps he had the same sort of "pastoral concerns" that the Modernists have: don't overwhelm the laity with the FULL truth. The late Gruner did good work that I appreciate, however he was not infallible and his response to a blatant and obvious deception about the very person of Sr. Lucia is profoundly disappointing.
The giant front tooth became small and tiny along with jaw bone transformation. Sr Lucia was disappeared in 1958.
They changed the teeth of a young, ethnic-looking shepherd girl whose skin was browned by the sun. Suddenly she became an old, boxy Caucasian woman.
The true Sr.Lucy is gone before or after 1960,, the new Sr Lucy is a fake
i am convinced that there was subterfuge and that the genuine Lucia was either eliminated in 1959 or murdered
yes I think so too...this new Sr. Lucia is more look like Mother Angelica.
ah cmon. the two pix are two different people, stop insulting our intelligence
Poor Father Gruner, he just did not know all the things we know now. He was such a single-minded promoter of Fatima and its complete message, that that is what he had to focus on. Such a holy man, God rest his soul. This is one of the very few things I would disagree with him on. There is more than ample proof that Sister Lucy was silenced by hook or by crook. Perhaps she died a natural death before being replaced. Either way, she was replaced and the false Sister Lucy promoted the new agenda of the Modernists every chance she got. This is one of the most brazen and shameful things that the NO church has done. In doing this, they undermined a direct action of the Queen of Heaven.
The story of the 3 children from Fatima is such an moving story. So powerful and full of love and dedication, and warnings of horror. And the loyalty and faith the children gives the angel and our holy mother. I am quite new to the details of this , but it has had a strong impact on me. And if Lucy were in any way treated wrongly by some powers at be, I am very sorry
Yeah, she was hidden away, silenced.
@@suzannakoizumi8605 she was killed
She is with our Lord now...
and what kind of Saint would have surgery or changes to their looks out of vanity? none and neither would Lucia especially since she was in a convent where no one could see her in person there was a screen between her and any visitors mysteriously after 1960 and after Vatican II she comes forward looking like a totally different person because it was a totally different person
what woman on earth would have surgery to look 'UGLIER' ???
as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, down to this very day.”
IT WAS SO CLEAR SHE WAS AN IMPOSTOR, THE REAL ONE HAD KIND OF LONG FACE AND COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FACIAL FISSURES, THE IMPOSTOR HAD A COMPLETELY ROUND FACE, THING LIPS, AND TOTALLY DIFFERENT FACIAL FISSURES, EVEN TEETH WERE SO DIFFERENT.
Surely, the Convent Lucia lived in would have proof that she had all her teeth removed and had dentures. The teeth of both these women look nothing alike.
Im not sure i belive that she was a imposter. But I cant help but saying
When the imposter is sus " 🤣
Even the noses of the (2) sisters were so different. The real sister Lucia turned up. The impostors nose turned down.
The woman who appears with Paul VI in the 60's-70s looks already a different person. The differences are not light. Very shocking as everything after the Vatican II Revolution and desolation.
I can't understand half the conversation. Sound quality is bad, or father is talking far too fast.
That was my problem, too. Fr. Gruner was mumbling & talking too fast; some sentences were hanging.
It was quite painful trying to make out his words. Almost a waste of time.
click the CC button and captions will appear
Fr. Gruner always talked fast, and mumbled. Try playing the video slower.
Fr. Gruner always mumbled, sometimes skipping syllables and even whole words. It's not your ears.
How about let’s pray to our lady to make all things clear
It is clear. Save your prayers for conversions.
Completely dancing around the question and never answering it, very disheartening
Knowing the secret, Sr Lucy would reject the New Mass. The modernista Sr Lucy accepted the New Mass.
This video did not age well. All the evidence is in; there were two Sister Lucia present to us, one the real Sister, the other an imposter.
The real Sister Lucy was a peasant and looked ethnic. The old Sister Lucy was Caucasian.
Every anthropologist who looked at photos of the 2 Lucy's said it is two separate people. It is obvious to the casual viewer as well.
This video does not address the issue at all. If Cardinal Bertone could almost single handedly hold off the consecration with blatant lies, can you realistically defend that two different looking women are the same person? Acting like the fake Sister Lucy thing isn't possible is frustrating, especially with the later Lucy saying and doing such questionable things. Socci looked into Fatima and came out believing something he didn't think was possible. Someone should put him on the case.
He doesn’t address her odd reception of Holy Communion from JP2. Very Conciliar. A Holy person would have been appalled at such a Mass.
But I since learned that the privilege of being a seer does not guarantee holiness. I understand the seers of La Salette had issues also.
WRONG. All genuine "seers" chosen by Mary who has perfect virtue, therefore perfect discernment, are holy, pious.early in life. @@MrJking1962 The Holy Mother of God as Mother of all the Living, Mother of the Word made Flesh, can read souls. You don't know what you are talking about. Only fraudulent "seers" are sinners like the rest of us.
I wish so badly that we had a well-spoken, mentally organized, articulate, logical clergy member, who can stop
Sputtering around like this Fr. and just tell it to us straight. Either that..... or trust your own eyes ~ those are very clearly two different women ~ both in looks and demeanor ~
And I read some of the response comments and had to stop....... the deniers aren’t well ~
You just got your wish here th-cam.com/video/6ZBM-Jpb8gk/w-d-xo.html
You can lie to men but not to our Lord
I never knew about any of this... troubling.
Show me an instance where someone's jaw structure changes so drastically when they get older.
Again, I believe that the jaw and nose and other areas of the face can change with age. Some people more than others.
@@tomwolf8721 there have been some computer-generated models for the face of sister Lucy. The Aging models that they use for police work did not come up with the face of the last sister Lucy that we saw on TV.
@@tomwolf8721 But not like that there obviously two different women
Sorry to say, but you don't work with elders or you would not say something so nonsensical.
@@Lucylou7070 what? I have an elderly mother. I've seen pictures of all my elderly relatives from birth to death. I've never seen those kind of changes. Major changes yes but not like that.
Something diabolical took place......
i am convinced that there was subterfuge and that the genuine Lucia was either eliminated in 1959 or murdered
Double Ghod Eliminated? But why? I don’t understand. I’m in such shock, but yes the two women are completely different looking.
@@KristaLCPC The real 3rd fatima secret has not been revealed, the first 2 secrets were horrible, the last secret was obviously so terrible the church did not want it revealed. I believe they are one of the heads of the beast described in revelation.
@@KristaLCPC the third secret was to revealed at her death if it came first, before 1960. Carmelite necrology site records her death as may 31, 1949, just after she entered the Carmelite monastery, leaving the Dorothean order.
The JAW structure ( STRUCTURE ) changes???? Since when? What a fool... Anyway, despite all the OBVIOUS differences in the two women.. I can say this. Just like fingerprints.. NO two people have the same ear structure so find picture of both when they were younger and COMPARE the ears... NOBODY can fake that..
I don’t think Fr G was privy to the latest specialists on bone structure and would possibly feel differently today.
Sis Lucy's congregation can truly prove her real identify and where about, to wit:
1. When she died
2.Wheresheburied
otherwise, there's intention of conspiracy. If so, WHY, WHY, WHY?
The records document that she died on may 31, 1949…the interview that was documented in the fifties must have been the imposter…I believe it’s only audio
@@premapriti8888 Provide the original death certificate!
@@premapriti8888 The real sister was still alive in 1948/59.
@@Lucylou7070 it’s in Portugal! I can’t get documents from Portugal!
@@premapriti8888 Did you see the document online or read about it?
Don't bother with this one. He does not answer the question AT ALL! May he rest in peace.
there is a whole galaxy of indicators that point to a substitute Lucia. There can be no question that Lucia died or disappeared well before 1990.
Proof?
The answer seems to be yes. All one needs to do is look at the photographs. Where the real Sister Lucie went is the question.
Teeth don't change unless altered. Sister Lucia's teeth were not straight and small like imposter Lucy. Plus Sister Lucia she was older than imposter Lucy. Not buying it, not buying the 2nd lucy.
Lucia
Please address the real one as Sister Lucia and the fake one as impostor lucy.
@@CatholicMailman ok. only reason why i said it is because its how its referenced. Reworded it.
@@jamesmonahan9408 thank you, I suggested it just to distinguish the real Sister Lucia from the impostor lucy. God bless you and your family. 🙏🏽💜🙏🏽
@icMailman Thx for suggesting the distinction. Because it is a huge distinction. It's an atrocity. God bless you as well.
I believe that there was an imposter so that the real Sister Lucia would not speak to anyone and also so that she would act in a very friendly manner with Pope John Paul II and stand up to receive Holy Communion and such things that a thoroughly Novus Ordo nun would do. The imposter, if there was one, was nothing in appearance like Lucia and her family, sisters, etc...
The death photo of Sister Lucia in her coffin, does look like Lucia's sister Carolina (who has been interviewed as an old woman). So I think she was kept away from the public because the real Lucia would not have fit the picture of the Novus Ordo nun. In her pictures, she looked like she definitely had "gravitas" that the imposter did not. I don't think Father was in denial, however. The only really important thing is the false statements and letters being exposed and he does this and always has. May he and John both rest in peace!
Also they had a different dialects and different handwriting.
They should of done a DNA to prove if she is the real Lucy. From her relatives.
There was DEFINITELY a fake Sister Lucia, no question about it.
This like covering the sun with your hands..... Sister lucy s face at age 41 looks very much different than the one presented at age 71. The eyebrows, the eyes, the nose nostrils, chin, and jaw look different, in addition to her side view the nose and mouth look different. One face is oval, while the second face presented it is square. Please do not fool us..... we know it better.
i dont understand the first apparition in our lady of fatima is 1917 and sister lucia died 2005..how did she live that long?? it just did not make sense to me
Lucia didn't live that long. The fake did. I would estimate the fake was in her mid 70's, maybe 80, at the very most 85 when she died. If you look at pictures of her in 1967 she seemed to be in her late 30's to early 40's...meaning the fake was born somewhere around 1923 to 1930. The real Sr Lucia was born in 1907 some 15-25 yrs before the fake.
Mary told her she was going to around for sometime. She told her that cousins will go soon and they did watch the movie.
Mother Mary said that Lucia would live a long life. Are you calling Mary a liar?
@@Lucylou7070 Mother Mary did not say Sister Lucia would live a long life. She said that Lucia would be here on Earth a while longer as opposed to her cousins who Our Lady would come for sooner.
@@spaceshipboy You're right. I wasn't quoting but recalling from memory. I have "Her Own Words..." so checked. Writing about the June 13 appearance (p252), Lucia wrote "I would like to ask you to take us to Heaven." She was told "Yes. I will take Jacinta and Francisco soon. But you are to stay here some time longer. Jesus wishes to make use of you to make me known and loved...establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.." Such a task takes time for such a young girl who had yet to attend school to learn reading/writing and enter a convent. So, over the years I took that to mean a long life. I think she did live a long life, and "some time longer" can be defined many ways.
He never answered the question: is there a fake Sr. Lucy?
Hard to understand him, slur his words a lot.
Why are you hiding the truth???
Evil Cardinal Cassaroli.
He was the one behind this diabolical plot.
Umm have these men seen the pictures of Lucy and the new thin lipped straight teeth,strong chin ,feminine brow line and short stature Lucy kissing P.J.P2 after communion? They are totally different people!!!!!!!!' The actions lol,like an actor everytime she's in lime light,new Lucy was vain that is no her!!!!
I totally agree with you. The demeanor of the Sr. Lucy in the video with Pope John Paul II is ludicrous, - so unlike the serious, humble Lucia dos Santos.
@@jmj6145 The real Sr. Lucia would never act like that. And the two women look NOTHING alike, even if she got dentures.
all the information one requires in regards to this theory can be found on Sister Lucy Truth, the documentary is on going, to get full details go to their site on u tube, the investigation is on going
the two pictures sure look like different people, I know having her teeth fixed would change her looks somewhat but not that drastically!! I really don't think the Church had her murdered though that's just a bit to far out...idk what happened
Carmelite nuns were not in a financial situation to have Lucy’s teeth completely changed, especially at that period of time. Her family would have to have paid for it and they were poor peasants in Portugal ! Definitely didn’t happen!
But the one calling herself Sister Lucia looks nothing like the Sister Lucia we saw prior. Imposter !!!
Yes different peoples. How can they pull this off. It would take the cooperation of so many peoples to keep it going, even family members an the congregation.
I'm an painter; no need to argue
In carmelite archives Lucia died in 1949!
Wasn't she still seen during late 1950's?
@@dahlenepretorius4380 I haven’t seen any! There was an interview in the 50’s but it was audio.
@@dahlenepretorius4380 the date 5/31/1949 was from the official Carmelite list of Professions and Necrology website.
@@dahlenepretorius4380 there is a photo of her that is said to be from 1957 but it couldn’t be…because she is not wearing the Carmelite habit. She is wearing the Dorothean habit which was the religious order she left…long before 1957.
@@Khu-Ku-Ri-Khu I don’t think there’s any evidence of that happening…
There were FOUR Sister Lucias, and THREE Paul VIs --- check the significance of the numbers, Our Lady of La Salette warned of this.
Thou shalt not bear false witness.
So sorry to say this but Father John talks tooo fast and its difficult to understand. And concerning the two Lucias, they are completely DIFFERENT. people don't change like that
Look at the face, teeth and lower bone structure of the Lucia with JPII. Not the same person.
The real Sr Lucy died about 1960. This fake one came out in 1967
Lucia
I read the book about sister Lucy after she go to a convent she never really see her parents or sisters I know the family
There was an imposter just look at the photographs of the original she was very homely and had spaces between here visible teeth. the imposter was stouter and her teeth were perfect. She was not homely and one can see what I saw for your self there is a video here on you tube that covers this do the research.
+Susan Barrett Teeth are always perfect when you wear dentures. Its clear to me that those are dentures in the later pictures. Other than that, she looks the same, only older. Look at pictures of people when they are young and then old. Big changes! But the basic structures are there.
+wisdaniel The shape of the face is not even close the chin way off and her face was oval where as the shape of the imposter is square
+Susan Barrett Shape of the face can be deceiving. Skin and flesh are firm with youth. Everything sags in old age. I think forensics go beyond that and look at more markers, such as pupil distance and the like. I'm with Father Gruner on this. don't think you can jump to conclusions based on a couple of photos over decades. And that people would even use the teeth argument is beyond me.
+wisdaniel skin yes but not bone structure I took anatomy and physiology and art in college I know bone structure and you can do some research on that yourself. She was replaced and I know why.
+Susan Barrett .....Why do you think she was replaced?
I wonder if face recognition technology can be used to see if pictures are of the same person.
Dr. Peter Chojnowski is leading a panel of experts of various recognition fields to investigate this question. Follow his reports here: radtradthomist.chojnowski.me/
It WAS done. It was proven to be two different people.
This is why I can"t reconcile w many of the actions of JP2. He was in thick w Sr. Lucy, so it appears, and he said that 3rd secret was about his assassination attempt.
@@alicer9390 Many speculate that the switch was made when Pius XII was Pope. It’s said to have been done without him knowing by church officials…Pius XII was Pope until 1958... JPII may not have known…
@@premapriti8888 - True, and I actually did consider that. While I can't know for sure, I eventually came to doubt JP2 after he said the 3rd Secret was about his assassination attempt (how convenient), with the Koran on the altar, his canonization of Sr. Faustina and the whole Divine Mercy thing, after it was rejected by 2 previous popes, and NOT for issues of translation, as is alleged (Fr. Patrick Perez did a nice job succinctly summarizing that issue) and other things. I could be wrong, but it gives me the impression that he may have been intentionally deceptive, and disingenuous, as compared to those who openly embrace Mpdernism. I would love to be wrong about that impression, though, but so far, I don't see how it can be reconciled.
Her name was Lucia, not Lucy
Same name, different languages. Relax.
Sorry to say that John Vennari blunders here. He makes pronouncements that "people's appearance can change," and suchlike. John was not qualified to dismiss scientific evidence with a wave of the hand. And there is a mountain of evidence that didn't exist in 2014.
Hi. Thanks for all the videos. But I want to suggest adding subtitles at the bottom. It is very difficult to understand some of you, like Fr. Gruner, for the worst example. So I don't bother listening.
This is horrible but I guess it can be expected from the devil who is powerful and desperate to confuse everyone. May God have mercy on those playing a part in this act.
just compare picture from 1958 and later they are totally different woman
For the love of God and Truth, are you nuts? Sure, she not only got YOUNGER, HER ENTIRE BONE STRUCTURE CHANGED!
As for the last secret.... it foretold the APOSTASY OF THE CHURCH WILL BEGIN AT THE VERY TOP!
As a Roman Catholic, there are many things, including the beatificato of Teresa of Calcutta, that are causing me to question the church I've loved my whole life.
I'm too old and too sick to have the rug pulled from under my feet.
Don't worry, the new canonisations after 1983 are no longer acts of the papal magisterium and hence are not covered under infallibility. See a great explanation on the SSPX website. (Beatifications have never been infallible.) God bless
God Bless. I concur, it’s confusing and disappointing
I knew that when I was in Fatima, I had a bad vibe there even I didn't know what it was, I knew something was wrong and my hunches are never wrong.Though it is a beautiful place,I was still impressive.
As much as I want to scream “that’s not evidence!” It turns out I had the same queasy feeling when I was there too
Hmm. What do you mean? Why do you think it was a bad feeling?
What Community did Sister Lucy belong to? The two Sister Lucy’s are in different habits. The right religious habit would be the right Sister Lucy.
Thank you for your question. Lucia was a Dorothean Sister from 1925 until 1948, when she joined the Carmelite order. God bless you.
They killed Fr. Malachi Martin....
Thats right.. i believe he was purshed down the stairs he even admitted before he died that someone pushed him. Its because he was slowly revealing the 3rd secret bit by bit
Go watch his interviews you can see hes trying so hard to tell us without acctually telling us
@@oliviapyne2406 who killed Fr.Malachi Martin.
The second picture, the fake Lucia, doesn't look very Portuguese, the thin almost non existent lips give it away for me.
Roger Clemons
Yeah I do
And the imposter Sister Lucia doesn't even pass as a blood relative.
I am an sspx member and even there believe in the fake sister Lucy. Is amazing to me that people don't see the difference between the real Lucy and the fake. I ask with the pictures side by side to a member of my family who no know anything about Fatima who is a doctor and the conclusion: the most logical one, is not the same person! Is easy to see if you are not pre disposal!
Only those of us with real faith in God know the Truth
What about her writing? Would a simple person like her change so much the way she wrote certain letters?
A most valid and important point. Father Gruner begins to point out in this video (6:00 - 6:40) the introduction of fraudulent, type-written letters attributed to Sister Lucy. On our website you can read more about this, including the fact that a forensic expert in hand-writing who examined one of those letters declared that the person who signed it was not the author of Sister Lucy's Memoirs. (Cf. archive.fatima.org/crusader/cr63/cr63pg11.asp) More recently another letter attributed to Sister Lucy (dating back to December 27, 1969, and published by Dr. A. M. Martins in his "Memorias e Cartas da Irma Lucia," p. 450) urging an obsequious docility toward Pope Paul VI, has also been determined by a hand-writing expert to be a forgery.
@@TheFatimaCenter thank you…I could see that there handwriting was completely different !
Will all due respect, this Priest doesn't give a straight answer. He goes around talking a lot but ....
I can't hardly understand anything Fr. Gruner is saying. He is mumbling a mile a minute!
How is that? I am not even a native speaker (am German) and I do understand him.
***** Depends. Certainly not all of it. I am Lutheran.
In modern technology BC there are functions to help you receive from this presentation the perfection of every human mind, meaning demonstrative objective truth about things. Christ is objective truth Himself.
+Ronnie Amituanai
Hey Ronnie,
Its Remona from Syd.
Heres my email..deogratias784@gmail.com.
God bless.
i understood every word, open your ears
Regardless of a stand-in for sister Lucy and I do believe there was a fake sister Lucy even the fake sister Lucy would have to say the consecration did not play place because the criteria for the consecration has been made public for many years prior to the 1980s so even the fake one would have to say it didn't fit the criteria because the criteria have been made public for a long time .
Good point. I think what happened is that the fake Lucy said that the 1984 consecration was "accepted" by God. That was all they needed and she received her 30 pieces.
What a shame for this false warriors of Holy Tradition!!
Pretty sad that these two were fooled.
So obvious. Just look at the pictures.
So why do they both look so different from each other? Father Grunner is an intelligent person but I think he is in BIG DENIAL. The changes in face is true but this change is entirely a whole person. Father Grunner was kinda lost in translation for a while. Obviously in big denial. Oh well….now he knows the truth!
+Marivic Baltasar Sometimes it comes down to a death threat and many reverse their opinion. It happens quite frequently we call it suicided even popes have seen that Pope Paul I believe a few decades ago. I am sure there were others. Ever hear of the Black Pope?
They look different for the simple reason they were taken 30 years apart.
there are traces even after 30 years. this i a totaly different person. no similarities at all. the teeth of the original sister Lucy are jagged and crooked. the fake lucy has straight teeth....cmon dont blind yourself anymore.
bone structure does not change or they wouldnt be able to identify skulls found over long periods of time which is a science in itself
...and that's why Russia is a serious threat to world peace and conversion today.
If you are going to make videos, please stop mumbling and speak clearly.
Thank you ... I never understood anything the priest was saying. It sounded almost like deliberate mumbling with dates thrown around, people names, places, jumping from one train of thought to another, etc. In the end, what in the heck did he really believe?
He was an old man. It is not uncommon that they mumble and ramble a bit. I did understand him clearly. Of course you might have to concentrate a bit.
On what he said he believes:
- The real sister Lucia did not die when most Sedevacantists claim she did, cause years after that she spoke out against the Vatican not consecrating Russia, and cause her sister still met with her.
- If she was replaced by an actress she only was on very few occasions. And while the real sister Lucia was still alive. Which is possible, cause apparently the real Sister Lucy had only very limited Media access throughout her life.
REALLY. Even as an old man, i wish he had looked at the camera and spoken slower. John could have told him this before. I had to sit right in front of the screen to understand this. I realize he was not all that technologically hip, bugt still...
This didn’t age well….
I have witnessed 4 generation of family as well as seeing other families and we keep a family resemblance. If my aunt doesn't look like she used to she looks like her mother at the same age, which is today 100, her mother lived 2 more years, her daughter is fast approching her 101 birthday.
"even jaw structure changes over time"..!!?
This entire video is not only unintelligible but a complete waste of time.
This priest isn't the person able to clarify ANYTHING.
a simple yes or no ?? not happening
What ever happened to the movie that covered this topic?
Catholic churches pray to the saints and angels as they would be asking anyone in the church of other Christians in general ( the saints on earth are all in the churches or Christian) asked to pray to Mary, as she was the earthly mom to Jesus , and walked most closely to Him while on earth , bringing Him up ( as He was made flesh and dwelt among us) and He loved her as we love our mom. So as we ask people on earth to "pray for us" we have a" heaven on earth, and a heavenly church and earthly church, and we all live forever no matter where we are or in what form. Ice can be frozen or melt and be water or become gas. It is always water though, in other forms. So spirit is alive and can hear and see in spiritual ways and in with us on earth in that way. IF we CALL on them. (But we know Jesus will answer ,as He is God.) But, we can ( and often do) also ask others to pray for us or help ask Jesus . " Where two or more join together, I am with you"
Great discussion! Evil men will creep therein...