I only found your channel recently but have viewed much of the Australian content with great interest in the detail, bodes well for lesser known efforts of others deserving their story told
Thanks for posting this. Adam Lunney is a great guest speaker and obviously knows his stuff. I am fascinated by the air combat that took place during the second world war and particularly enjoyed his description of a dogfight in a Lufbery circle and his explanation of lag and lead pursuit. His passion for the subject and his love of details really shone through. Yet another author whose work I must purchase. Thanks again for all your hard work. It is very appreciated.
I watched “We together” on TH-cam with interest as my father was, for a short period, with 451 squadron. However I was disappointed with several comments which are based on some poor research and a general attitude that Australians are a superior race. Firstly, there were some derogatory comments about used aircraft and "second hand" pilots that came over from 6 squadron. What did they expect? Brand new aircraft? There was a war on and resupply, particularly after the losses of Battle of Britain, was difficult. Why were pilots who had never seen or flown a Hurricane, entitled to new aircraft? Secondly, “second hand” pilots? The pilots you refer to were from 229 squadron which was a front line squadron based at Northolt throughout the Battle of Britain. They were transferred to Egypt by aircraft carrier in June 1941 as part of the Malta Convoys. However, their maintenance crew and spares came by sea via the Cape route so arrived much later. The pilots of 229 squadron were dispersed as temporary attachments to various squadrons (6, 208, 213 and 274) in the Middle East while they awaited the arrival of the balance of the squadron. 4 of these pilots (my father F/L John Holderness, P/O Jimmy Sowrey, P/O Penny and Sgt Wesson) were attached to No 6 Squadron and all experienced pilots. Although only Dad was a Battle of Britain pilot, the others were experienced members of 229 squadron when it transferred to the Middle East. Dad, in fact, was originally a professional soldier in the Rhodesia Regiment in Southern Rhodesia, transferred to and a founder member of the Southern Rhodesia Air Unit in 1935, came to the UK in August 1940 and joined No 1 Squadron at Northolt during the Battle of Britain. He joined 229 squadron in October 1940 where he remained until they transferred to the Middle East. Thirdly, by implication, the British pilots were "queers who didn't know how to fight". Dad was a Battle of Britain pilot and regimental boxing champion. The other 3 had all proved their worth in battle in the UK. Finally, you state that all reconnaissance was by hand. However, 6 squadron was doing photo reconnaissance before 451 squadron became operational, and those aircraft came to 451 when the 2 squadrons merged. Dad joined 451 from 6 the day they became operational on 1st July and did his first photo reconnaissance runs with 451 over Tobruk on 4th and 5th July. From 1st to 31st July, when he left 451 for Rhodesia as an instructor, TAC/R and reconnaissance runs were interspersed.
Thanks for your comments. First, some of the derogatory comments were clearly those of the Aussie pilots etc at the time, not necessarily the views of the author. Second, in terms of the history, Adam has been studying these units for a long time, but as with any subject there are always new things to learn - so thank you
@WW2TV The derogatory comment about queen's who couldn't fight was, I agree, from a pilot. However, used planes and second hand pilots was your opinion, which you ignored. The inaccuracy about photo reconnaissance you also ignored. It is this, combined with the pilot's comment, which was the reason I questioned the entire derogatory bias of the article, making it appear that the RAAF was hard done by. Do you think the "second hand" pilots wanted to be split up from their friends and attached to 4 different squadrons having been together as a team for months on the front line at the most difficult period of the war? One of the 4, Jimmy Sowrey, a great friend of Dad's, was killed on a TACR run a few days before the merger.
@@tonyholderness5907 It's not so much that I ignored the comments, so much as don't always have time to offer lengthy replies to the hundreds of comments that come in each week. Every show I do (and I'm at around 700) is primarily the viewpoint of the featured historian. People will agree with some things they say and disagree with others. Don't forget these streams are always live and sometimes phrasing can be taken out of context. The tone of this show, as with all, is respectful towards those who served. With regards the photo recce aspect, I don't have enough knowledge to offer any further insight. Adam was the historian on this, not I. You have offered a different version of the history, which may or may not align with Adam's research. But this won't be the last time a viewer has questioned the information offered by the historian. That of course is what we hope for. History is not a science, it's a long-term aim to better our understanding of the past and historians continue to disagree on many points. I hope most people are grateful that we shed light on units that don't always get mainstream interest. It's also a very early WW2TV show and maybe if I revisit the subject I would handle the subject differently.
@@tonyholderness5907 Hello Tony, much of what I used in the video were quotes from the squadron, be they Australian or otherwise. Geoffrey Morley-Mower was a British pilot and I can recommend his book Messerschmitt Roulette to you, where he is less than complimentary about some British pilots and he is quite frank about his time in North Africa. He also wrote some articles for WWII magazine in the late 1990s. The RAAF were hard done by in North Africa, as were all squadrons there (in my opinion), and this is what I'm talking about with the lack of Spitfires. Australians are not a superior race, and I go into some detail about a LMF case in my book, which you may or may not have read. My role here is to present the experiences of the squadron for the public, and if the squadron felt a certain way then it's my job to share their experiences and shine a light on what they thought, felt, experienced etc. Just because the Australians and British were on the same side didn't mean they always got along or had favourable opinions of each other. No offense or disrespect is intended.
![ละลาย (LALALYE) - DAOU PITTAYA ต้าห์อู๋ พิทยา [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wo6r9TgausI/mqdefault.jpg)
I only found your channel recently but have viewed much of the Australian content with great interest in the detail, bodes well for lesser known efforts of others deserving their story told
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks for posting this.
Adam Lunney is a great guest speaker and obviously knows his stuff.
I am fascinated by the air combat that took place during the second world war and particularly enjoyed his description of a dogfight in a Lufbery circle and his explanation of lag and lead pursuit.
His passion for the subject and his love of details really shone through.
Yet another author whose work I must purchase.
Thanks again for all your hard work. It is very appreciated.
Another great show with some really good data to think with. Thanks again
Thank you, Adam is an absolute gent and knows his subject intimately
Great stuff - even as a student of raaf history in ww2, a lot of this was new to me
Interested in the No. 451 and No. 453 Squadrons during the raids on the Hague and the V2 sites. Loved the show, will find the books.
I watched “We together” on TH-cam with interest as my father was, for a short period, with 451 squadron. However I was disappointed with several comments which are based on some poor research and a general attitude that Australians are a superior race.
Firstly, there were some derogatory comments about used aircraft and "second hand" pilots that came over from 6 squadron. What did they expect? Brand new aircraft? There was a war on and resupply, particularly after the losses of Battle of Britain, was difficult. Why were pilots who had never seen or flown a Hurricane, entitled to new aircraft?
Secondly, “second hand” pilots? The pilots you refer to were from 229 squadron which was a front line squadron based at Northolt throughout the Battle of Britain. They were transferred to Egypt by aircraft carrier in June 1941 as part of the Malta Convoys. However, their maintenance crew and spares came by sea via the Cape route so arrived much later. The pilots of 229 squadron were dispersed as temporary attachments to various squadrons (6, 208, 213 and 274) in the Middle East while they awaited the arrival of the balance of the squadron. 4 of these pilots (my father F/L John Holderness, P/O Jimmy Sowrey, P/O Penny and Sgt Wesson) were attached to No 6 Squadron and all experienced pilots. Although only Dad was a Battle of Britain pilot, the others were experienced members of 229 squadron when it transferred to the Middle East.
Dad, in fact, was originally a professional soldier in the Rhodesia Regiment in Southern Rhodesia, transferred to and a founder member of the Southern Rhodesia Air Unit in 1935, came to the UK in August 1940 and joined No 1 Squadron at Northolt during the Battle of Britain. He joined 229 squadron in October 1940 where he remained until they transferred to the Middle East.
Thirdly, by implication, the British pilots were "queers who didn't know how to fight". Dad was a Battle of Britain pilot and regimental boxing champion. The other 3 had all proved their worth in battle in the UK.
Finally, you state that all reconnaissance was by hand. However, 6 squadron was doing photo reconnaissance before 451 squadron became operational, and those aircraft came to 451 when the 2 squadrons merged. Dad joined 451 from 6 the day they became operational on 1st July and did his first photo reconnaissance runs with 451 over Tobruk on 4th and 5th July. From 1st to 31st July, when he left 451 for Rhodesia as an instructor, TAC/R and reconnaissance runs were interspersed.
Thanks for your comments. First, some of the derogatory comments were clearly those of the Aussie pilots etc at the time, not necessarily the views of the author. Second, in terms of the history, Adam has been studying these units for a long time, but as with any subject there are always new things to learn - so thank you
@WW2TV The derogatory comment about queen's who couldn't fight was, I agree, from a pilot. However, used planes and second hand pilots was your opinion, which you ignored. The inaccuracy about photo reconnaissance you also ignored. It is this, combined with the pilot's comment, which was the reason I questioned the entire derogatory bias of the article, making it appear that the RAAF was hard done by. Do you think the "second hand" pilots wanted to be split up from their friends and attached to 4 different squadrons having been together as a team for months on the front line at the most difficult period of the war? One of the 4, Jimmy Sowrey, a great friend of Dad's, was killed on a TACR run a few days before the merger.
@@tonyholderness5907 It's not so much that I ignored the comments, so much as don't always have time to offer lengthy replies to the hundreds of comments that come in each week. Every show I do (and I'm at around 700) is primarily the viewpoint of the featured historian. People will agree with some things they say and disagree with others. Don't forget these streams are always live and sometimes phrasing can be taken out of context. The tone of this show, as with all, is respectful towards those who served. With regards the photo recce aspect, I don't have enough knowledge to offer any further insight. Adam was the historian on this, not I. You have offered a different version of the history, which may or may not align with Adam's research. But this won't be the last time a viewer has questioned the information offered by the historian. That of course is what we hope for. History is not a science, it's a long-term aim to better our understanding of the past and historians continue to disagree on many points.
I hope most people are grateful that we shed light on units that don't always get mainstream interest. It's also a very early WW2TV show and maybe if I revisit the subject I would handle the subject differently.
@@tonyholderness5907 Hello Tony, much of what I used in the video were quotes from the squadron, be they Australian or otherwise. Geoffrey Morley-Mower was a British pilot and I can recommend his book Messerschmitt Roulette to you, where he is less than complimentary about some British pilots and he is quite frank about his time in North Africa. He also wrote some articles for WWII magazine in the late 1990s. The RAAF were hard done by in North Africa, as were all squadrons there (in my opinion), and this is what I'm talking about with the lack of Spitfires. Australians are not a superior race, and I go into some detail about a LMF case in my book, which you may or may not have read. My role here is to present the experiences of the squadron for the public, and if the squadron felt a certain way then it's my job to share their experiences and shine a light on what they thought, felt, experienced etc. Just because the Australians and British were on the same side didn't mean they always got along or had favourable opinions of each other. No offense or disrespect is intended.