Demon Hunter felt arguably at its clearest with one specific archetype: NAGA DEMON HUNTER in late Sunken city. Demon hunter loves to play both cheap spells and mana-efficient minions to capitalize on its good cycling, making it quite good at using Nagas compared to other classes, and Naga do offer an interesting playpattern of making you do mini combos to activate Nagas. Sadly they butchered it in badlands due to making Naga DH a burn deck. According to Blizzard, the class is supposed to be a nimble fighter, kinda like hunter or current paladin in terms of speed, kinda fast and loving to trade due to bonking with the opponent's minions and weapons who reward trading. The problem is that they always forget the minions, and lacks clear playpatterns. Big Demon DH is never going to work because it has antisynergy with the class, and people just despise aggro.
It’s clearest was definitely naga demon hunter in showdown with sharpshooter. You knew exactly what you were going to do and your enemy did to not gun to play against but was defiantly the most clear gameplan/play wise
@@eicheldrei7408 Tbf, the identity was not too different from the one in Sunken city, but with more overtuned minions, while also more in line with the class. You use spells to cycle and clear board, which procs your Naga's effects which are quite good at pushing damage and giving you even more spells. The difference with the shooter and Lady S'theno is that the latter doesn't draw cards, meaning the damage is limited to how much you can do during the combo and is much healthier than sharpshooter being a one-card combo.
@ blindeye encapsulated exactly what demon hunter is. Massive face damage, card draw, very fast deck . Like you said lady had no card draw, did not mirrow the class best
@@eicheldrei7408 The draw was in the spells the deck used to activate S'theno, like Chaos strike, Spectral sight, sigil of alacrity or treasure guard. The deck did represent Demon Hunter quite well, but didn't have a card who did everything, just very efficient cheap cards so they could abuse Drek'thar.
I don't hate Elemental Mage for being an aggro deck, I hate it for "Oh no, I'm losing board control. Oh wait, I have 30 damage from hand. Guess I don't need board control anymore."
The one thing I actually like about Hearthstone Demon Hunter is the distruption cards it gets, such as Mana Burn, Gunslinger Kurtrus, and Glide. It would be incredibly funny to see an expansion or mini-set that gives those types of DH mechanics a spotlight.
DH is one of my mains and favourite classes but only when he is playing slow and building over a win condition, while starting very weak. Jace with fel-spells control building towards him; combo with the lifesteal lego, or my favourite was relics which i played both with a lot of tokens for denathrius, both with nagas cause it worked with spell synergies, and then with naga and big demons (with the naga cost 6 that cheated them and all fel breaks loose 1 copy). I hear that people liked soul shards as well. Some of the most fun i ever had was with them, if the class never released i probably would've had much less fun with the game, since for a while (during nathria/sunken city) i just played dh. It's just a different style of slow deck, and you don't often get the feel of building towards a win condition in quite the same way (CNE was most similiar), but they don't DH like that anymore :(. Even cheating big stuff is more fun because DH demons are much more impactful that the boring statsticks of warlock, because in Dh they can go face or deal a bunch of damage to everything(they did some that even stole stats and we still have the guy that taunts enemy minions at end of turn), max warlock can do is have a DR that summons another demon. Warlock doesn't have weapons also. I think people saying that Dh is not unique because other classes do the same are absolutely wrong. They play with self damage and healing in a way not even blood does. Their spells often have drawbacks, even the most basic ones, and trying to defend themselves with tokens also is a difficult one. But everytime (like in the past lots of expansions) DH is aggro, i just skip the class entirely.
Demon hunter is at its best when it works around where cards are in your hand. It's such a unique feature that could make for a really interesting control deck but blizzard seems scared to commit
They don't want games to go that long it seems like to me and most every deck draws enough cards where trying to play control seem rough, you clear board they just make a new one rinse repeat and in my experience with warrior I would usually run out of board clears before they ran out of minions, didn't seem like they could over commit to a board they just wouldn't run out of steam that was always a threat
I hate demon hunter with a burning passion. All it does is ceaselessly murder every slow archetype and deck with brutal efficiency. Every single format it is introduced it takes over like an invasive species. Its class identity is simply better than all other classes. Warrior, death knight and priest are trying to slowly accrue value and remove key threats to win in the late game. Hunter, paladin, and shaman are trying to build big burns and run the opponent down. Rogue, mage and Druid are trying to collect combo pieces before unleashing a powerful combo. Demon hunters class identity is mana cheating card draw and aggressive damage. This is infinity better than everything else in the game paired with amazing aggro sets and some of the most powerful cards ever printed. Demon Hunter is like a tumor leaching all fun out of hearthstone leading to a game faster then marvel snap where you die on turn four to an archetype that the devs tried to remove because it was too good. (Charge). Hearthstone used to be an amazing game where value and the board mattered, now it is nothing but a 100 meter dash but if your not playing demon hunter you knees and broken and you start 30 seconds after the demon hunter. This class should be deleted from the game.
To the point even if it's awful people still hate it. You know a class is in a terrible situation when the deck most complained about is a 40% WR one, while the 60% one with triple the playrate is kinda ignored.
Demon Hunter legit made me quit the game in 2020. I liked the class, but every single game was just DH over and over cause it was busted. Worse is that DH completely WARPED how the game was designed from then onward and the game has been less healthy for it ever since.
Oh no one class draws so many cards no other class can keep up we will just have everyone draw an insane amount of cards now. You good? No blizard not a fan personally
The biggest issue with DH is that it's core class identity is both Card Draw and Mana Cheat. The fact Mana Cheating is like a theme for a class to begin with is nonsense. It is naturally going to cause massive issues in designing/balancing cards when there is hardly any baseline to draw from. Card Draw only further exasperates any issues because of how quickly anything can be drawn into. Hence why the class has no middle ground. It's either going to be absurd or unplayable, and it's blizzards fault for designing the class in such a ridiculous way. The game, since 2020, has been forced to accelerate the other classes, and destroying what was once foundational aspects of the classes.
It’s suppose to be priest that wears the crown of being a total failure of a class that everyone hates on but Demon Hunter is special because not only is it a failure, it’s sheer existence led to the overall power level of the game needing to be boosted in order to keep up with the powercreep of Demon Hunter.
Elemental mage is good for the game because it forces your opponent to actually try to stop something. Unless they are shaman throwing every removal in the universe, that is.
I honestly forgot about Relic DH, reading your comment brought back so many memories. I never played it, but I remember having to play against it with pally for months on end
DH made me quit the game, after Ashes of Outland and Scholomance made me tired of the class I saw the annoucement of Darkmoon Faire, saw Ilgynoth or wathever it's name was and said nope!
I remember on release I built demon hunter deck with only life steal and card draw, almost no minions and couple of weapons. It was suprisingly effective.
Thematically, I really like Naga, and would love to see Naga DH support. That's why I hate Blindeye Sharpshooter - so long as it exists, or at least in standard, blizzard would refuse to print Naga support for DH, since if they do Sharpshooter will limit that archetype to its uninteractive OTK shell. Of course, there's an incredibly intuitive and easy solution to that - rework Sharpshooter while printing more Naga payoffs, in order to push this archetype to a less polarizing, more interactive and more interesting direction. But that would require Blizzard to spend the tiniest bit of effort into improving the dogshit quality of the content they have already released, which is obviously a big no no.
Honestly seeing gunslinger kurtrus makes me wish that there was a "hand trick" demon hunter (cards that try to fuck with the opponents hand in interesting ways like glide, Star Student Stelina and Prosecutor Meltranix)
About Demon Hunter, it feels like Blizzard uses it to experiment, like "can Charge feel balanced on aggro?", "Are 1 mana hero powers fine?", "How much lifesteal is acceptable?", "When card draw draws too many cards?" That on itself is nice, but damn when you look at the wild collection the class is ALL over the place. Comboish, some slower tools, some payoff cards unsupported, some big demons, some aggro, and that doesn't feel great to have
I'd argue Gunslinger Kurtrus might be even worse than Solia. Maybe not Kruul, but Solia at least does something every time you play her. Kurtrus has a not insignificant chance of doing anything meaningful. You could have printed him without the highlander requirement and I think it would be totally fair.
Relics and Spell DH in standard with the scythe was pretty fun back during nathria/festival/titans, Jotun made it even more fun and is probably my favorite DH card ever printed and the only dustable sig I haven't dusted. Outcast is a decent mechanic and something they should have leaned into again with this xpac; the hand-shuffling cards are a fun idea and could have added another layer to the playstyle. The crewmates are too expensive and slow with almost no tutoring and limited buffing potential. They are also too random with some keywords being useless depending on the game-state and no way to target other keywords. It also completely disrespects hand economy; So you dropped 4 6/6 bodies for 4 mana on turn 5 or 6 after playing a few Draenei hand-buffs. What now? Your hand is fucking empty. Other classes can do that with one or two cards but you just emptied your hand for a mid-game tempo play that just keeps you alive for another turn and costs the opponent one card to clear. The mana-cost is almost irrelevant when you have to invest so many _cards_ into such mediocre plays with no repeatable value - Dirdra should have been written as "resurrect your crewmates" or at the very least made the crewmates she shuffles cast-when-drawn (it's sad that this would actually make her better despite clearly ignoring the "hand-adjacent" mechanic they were designed around) instead of literally _making your draw and your deck worse for an aggro package that is already too slow to be aggro._ Imagine a Hunter card that shuffled a bunch of hard-copy secrets into your deck that you had to draw and play naturally instead of just using endless discovers on pre-forged titan traps.... Hearthstone just isn't that game in 2024.
I can still say Demon Hunter have the most intresting and useful hero power, it's strong, mana effective, and high risk decision making as you need to use your face to kill minions
I feel like that priest is kinda in the same shoes where it is either the best class or totaly useless and they don't know what they want to do with the class.
Didn't even mention the new Among Us DH disaster. I did make a pretty fun deck with it using Velen, but it was like a 40% winrate deck in legend. I also climbed to legend a bunch of times with a Illidari Inquisitor deck early in the year, but I never saw anyone else play a deck like it. Kibler made some good highlander DH decks this year too, but it seems like so few people experiment with the class.
Let's be honest. Even though Demon Hunter might be a failure as a class, the most-hated class will always be Priests, and most-dominant, toxic, and frustrating to play against will always be Druid.
I like aggro decks and drawing cards, so I have an affinity for Demon Hunter. But yeah, it’s either boom or bust with Demon Hunter. To be honest, I think there’s a LOT of design issues with Hearthstone in general. Druid always gets insane ramp that breaks the game, Rogue basically only gets thief cards, Mage was random discovers for years, Hunter basically had a year straight of Big Beast expansions and barely anything else playable, etc. Some card packages are DOA and never get buffed, while others get buffed minimally. And other card packages end up being completely busted right out of the gate. There’s no design or balance consistency.
DH was just a badly designed class tbh. I think they really struggled to give the class an actual identity. I feel like the original idea was to make a class that focused on attacking with your hero every turn and using that to fuel your minions or allow strong use of lifesteal cards to heal back up that health. But in practice that mostly just meant playing aggro and going face all the time. So when it came to trying to push different playstyles, they either fell flat or became degen combo decks (Sharpshooter for example). It doesn't help that the current game right now doesn't really care about board control, so now all DH does is swing face every turn or play charge minions that also just go face.
I think Relic demon hunter was quite fun, and not really that hated. it was kinda fair while also being I'LL SUMMON A LARGER AND LARGER MAN. Sadly that entire arch-type seem to be often forgotten after MOTLK where Questline OTK no minion DH ruled the game for a bit.
Scholomance Soul Fragment Demon Hunter felt really fun to play back in the day. Darkmoon Faire Il'Gynoth OTK was literally one of my all time favourite decks. Forged In The Barrens Deathrattle Demon Hunter was memorably cause I think it was my first time in legend. I can't remember any memorable DK decks since. It's a nostalgia class.
The best way to play demon hunter is aggro and aggro as an archetype just doesn’t feel unique to me. It is basically “I hit your face super fast” and if there is enough interaction from the opponent or healing then you just go GG and go next game. Aggro is just too repetitive and there isn’t much room for adding cool cards that don’t just break the deck.
Really sad that all of the HL cards are rotating even though most of them saw close to 0 play and should have at least received some buffs. DH and Priest payoffs are so absolutely terrible, and that's even bringing up the fact that we actually had a SECOND neutral HL payoff that wouldn't even be played if it had no condition.
"It's a new class, it needs strong cards to people want to risk it instead of staying in the confort zone of established classes" It has been 4 years, you can stop.
I stopped playing hearthstone around 2017 and came back at the beginning of this year, but since then DH is one of my favourite classes with 600+ wins. I think a lot of the hate DH gets comes from the trauma people got when it got released. I didn't experience DH being op and therefore i dont hold any animosities towards DH.
It's interesting because in WoW, demon hunter also lacks an identity. Sigils are a bit of a flop that don't feel great in that game so the translation to hearthstone also sucks. At least with DK they have thematic sauce
Kurtrus is so bad its actually unreal, you would expect that he would get ANY buff like getting rush or something but nope, they just wasted a slot of a legendary for DH and didn’t even bother to make anything else in the class related to highlander.
I will at least say that they hit the flavor better than a lot of classes this expansion. Space rebel types, yeah, common sci-fi trope and Demon Hunter's renegade tendencies fit well into that and their Crewmate mechanics. Whereas you have things like Death Knight that have cool cards but the flavor's completely, well, airlock breached out the pod.
At least Pirate DH is a balanced aggro deck. Elemental mage on the other hand is not. The former plays like a proper aggro deck: it kicks off early and quickly but it can run out of steam and relies on board for damage, can run out of steam and can be outaggroed. Elemental mage on another hand literally does everything: it floods the board, it has infinite card draw, it has control tools, it has tons of damage from hand to the point of OTK potential. Talk about design failure.
@@boach1685 if u can survive a turn with mage having 7 minions on board and not killing them for one turn they are gg out of the game because of breaking the elemental chain :)
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641 i play druid and wheel warlock i can stall a turn pretty well. mage plays that minion that summons a copy of itself i can let that board live for a turn with some armor/ full health
when demon hunter gets a good deck those past few expansions i just try it a couple of games and then drop it to never play it again, they're just not as enjoyable as relics was to me
By the same ticket is Shaman a failure? Both classes have the exact same problem of getting 90% awful unplayable cards across a variety of completely incompatible archetypes and then 10% absurdly broken guys that get super nerfed
I think this analysis really missed talking about how many fucking awful cards DH has they had to buff the Relic package a bunch of times to be playable
I mean you could easily say shaman in it's like, first 3~ years was the worst designed class in the game no question. It hasn't had these issues even remotely as bad as DH has in the last few years but of the original 9 its 100% shaman is the worst made, even considering priest which also was terrible for a long time, but then they printed kotft and priest hasn't had those issues the same ever since
idea for demon hunter, add an "exhaust" mechanic where you can exhaust a card to get stronger benefit, by depleting a secondary green mana crystal in order replenish green crystal/exhaust players must perform "outcasts" or successfully trigger a "sigil" stronger effect can improve card draw by + amount, gives hero attack power, gaining lifesteal or additional effects on your hero print a card that can only use "exhaust" as a mechanic a.k.a spending green mana crystals to be cast and used or a minions that gives you green mana crystal on kill to fight for board demon hunter starts with 3 green mana crystal to spend (can have a maximum of 10) example: Fiery Fel Blade (2 mana cost Fel Spell) Deals 2 damage to a minion Exhaust (2) Deals damage to all enemy minion instead
The only reason demon hunter is constantly a disappointment is the fact a lot of cards in the class got nerfed into oblivion (and Mana Burn not being part of the core set which is extremely criminal)
mana burn is one of the most broken, terribly designed cards of all time and I didn't put it on my top 10 list strictly cause I don't want more people to know about that card
The devs continually thought they were making a class that resembled its WoW counterpart which is famous for being easy to play but still hard to master. Thats not what happened in the card game tho, they thought they were making Hunter but instead it’s just the bastard child of Rogue and Druid. Mass draw, mass means to discount the cards and combos out the ass.
@@vinnythewebsurferWoW DH isn't hard to master, in both specs you can bash your face against the keyboard and still give good impact. He is very intuitive.
Shaman was my favorite class since 2015, then DH became my favorite, im a wild player and i love off meta decks, have 1300 wins with highlander DH, got legend with my own deck But i dont like wild now, never thought dh would be close to the best class in wild, dh and dk used to be shit Questline dh is a mana cheating deck and its awful to face, just like spell druids, big shaman and quasar rogue games ending before turn 5 with no counterplay Playing at wild legend now ive seen opponents concede to me (thinking im Questline) is so stupid lol
DH is my favourite class. It offers unique and dynamic gameplay with weird archetypes like Naga DH, Ilgynoth, Questline, Fel, Relics. The problem is that anytime it’s good, it gets nerfed hard immediately and the entire class goes to dumpster for the rest of the expansion cycle. And as you said, those nerfs don’t even get reverted after rotation. So now we have boring pirates for 2 expansions in a row.
bro, how's warrior is dogshit in sunken city, aren't there a deck called pirate warrior with nelly in it and it's really stomp everything in standard? kinda weird you saying that
Did you just ignore the fact that during sunken city, like not even far in that warrior got gigantic nerfs to nelly, from the depths, and multiple other cards? Like are you just ignoring that and going "um akshully" without thinking for a second? Kinda weird you saying that
I had a lot of fun playing shopper Demon Hunter in Wizzbang, but we all knew that archetype was temporary. What does DH have left? Pirates which shaman does better, nagas with no support, card draw with nothing to draw for, and what? When I try to build a DH deck, I look at my collection and it feels like demon hunter cards don’t do things. What does the class build around?
I've been playing with Going down Swinging, fun card but not always good. It more or less needs Climbing Hook or Instrument Smasher to be reliable board clear, but it has been fun playing the deck with cards like Blingtron 3000, and becuse of how stupid Sigil of Skydiving and Dangerous Cliffside is I've managed to slot Gormok into the deck to really meme the hell out of the deck.
When demon hunter released; rather than adapting demon hunter to hearthstone, they adapted hearthstone to demon hunter
and heroes of the storm
Did they?
WoW Malfurion and Tyrande, reading the video title: "Accurate."
I AM MY SCARS
Demon Hunter felt arguably at its clearest with one specific archetype: NAGA DEMON HUNTER in late Sunken city. Demon hunter loves to play both cheap spells and mana-efficient minions to capitalize on its good cycling, making it quite good at using Nagas compared to other classes, and Naga do offer an interesting playpattern of making you do mini combos to activate Nagas. Sadly they butchered it in badlands due to making Naga DH a burn deck.
According to Blizzard, the class is supposed to be a nimble fighter, kinda like hunter or current paladin in terms of speed, kinda fast and loving to trade due to bonking with the opponent's minions and weapons who reward trading. The problem is that they always forget the minions, and lacks clear playpatterns. Big Demon DH is never going to work because it has antisynergy with the class, and people just despise aggro.
It’s clearest was definitely naga demon hunter in showdown with sharpshooter. You knew exactly what you were going to do and your enemy did to not gun to play against but was defiantly the most clear gameplan/play wise
I agree I don't like agro
@@eicheldrei7408 Tbf, the identity was not too different from the one in Sunken city, but with more overtuned minions, while also more in line with the class. You use spells to cycle and clear board, which procs your Naga's effects which are quite good at pushing damage and giving you even more spells.
The difference with the shooter and Lady S'theno is that the latter doesn't draw cards, meaning the damage is limited to how much you can do during the combo and is much healthier than sharpshooter being a one-card combo.
@ blindeye encapsulated exactly what demon hunter is. Massive face damage, card draw, very fast deck . Like you said lady had no card draw, did not mirrow the class best
@@eicheldrei7408 The draw was in the spells the deck used to activate S'theno, like Chaos strike, Spectral sight, sigil of alacrity or treasure guard. The deck did represent Demon Hunter quite well, but didn't have a card who did everything, just very efficient cheap cards so they could abuse Drek'thar.
I don't hate Elemental Mage for being an aggro deck, I hate it for "Oh no, I'm losing board control. Oh wait, I have 30 damage from hand. Guess I don't need board control anymore."
The one thing I actually like about Hearthstone Demon Hunter is the distruption cards it gets, such as Mana Burn, Gunslinger Kurtrus, and Glide. It would be incredibly funny to see an expansion or mini-set that gives those types of DH mechanics a spotlight.
DH is one of my mains and favourite classes but only when he is playing slow and building over a win condition, while starting very weak. Jace with fel-spells control building towards him; combo with the lifesteal lego, or my favourite was relics which i played both with a lot of tokens for denathrius, both with nagas cause it worked with spell synergies, and then with naga and big demons (with the naga cost 6 that cheated them and all fel breaks loose 1 copy). I hear that people liked soul shards as well.
Some of the most fun i ever had was with them, if the class never released i probably would've had much less fun with the game, since for a while (during nathria/sunken city) i just played dh. It's just a different style of slow deck, and you don't often get the feel of building towards a win condition in quite the same way (CNE was most similiar), but they don't DH like that anymore :(.
Even cheating big stuff is more fun because DH demons are much more impactful that the boring statsticks of warlock, because in Dh they can go face or deal a bunch of damage to everything(they did some that even stole stats and we still have the guy that taunts enemy minions at end of turn), max warlock can do is have a DR that summons another demon.
Warlock doesn't have weapons also. I think people saying that Dh is not unique because other classes do the same are absolutely wrong.
They play with self damage and healing in a way not even blood does. Their spells often have drawbacks, even the most basic ones, and trying to defend themselves with tokens also is a difficult one.
But everytime (like in the past lots of expansions) DH is aggro, i just skip the class entirely.
Demon hunter is at its best when it works around where cards are in your hand. It's such a unique feature that could make for a really interesting control deck but blizzard seems scared to commit
They don't want games to go that long it seems like to me and most every deck draws enough cards where trying to play control seem rough, you clear board they just make a new one rinse repeat and in my experience with warrior I would usually run out of board clears before they ran out of minions, didn't seem like they could over commit to a board they just wouldn't run out of steam that was always a threat
True.
I hate demon hunter
I only like it without the demon
I hate demon hunter with a burning passion. All it does is ceaselessly murder every slow archetype and deck with brutal efficiency. Every single format it is introduced it takes over like an invasive species. Its class identity is simply better than all other classes. Warrior, death knight and priest are trying to slowly accrue value and remove key threats to win in the late game. Hunter, paladin, and shaman are trying to build big burns and run the opponent down. Rogue, mage and Druid are trying to collect combo pieces before unleashing a powerful combo. Demon hunters class identity is mana cheating card draw and aggressive damage. This is infinity better than everything else in the game paired with amazing aggro sets and some of the most powerful cards ever printed. Demon Hunter is like a tumor leaching all fun out of hearthstone leading to a game faster then marvel snap where you die on turn four to an archetype that the devs tried to remove because it was too good. (Charge). Hearthstone used to be an amazing game where value and the board mattered, now it is nothing but a 100 meter dash but if your not playing demon hunter you knees and broken and you start 30 seconds after the demon hunter. This class should be deleted from the game.
12:00 same problem with zarimi and whatever agro garbage they want to push onto priest. They are indeed boring.
Rogue is kind of in a spot right now where it needs to be saved like how Mage needed to be saved
This, rogue has been for arguably a long time in a brainrot state
To the point even if it's awful people still hate it. You know a class is in a terrible situation when the deck most complained about is a 40% WR one, while the 60% one with triple the playrate is kinda ignored.
Relic demon hunter is my favourite archetype of all time. I hope we get more midrange/late game strategies for the class soon
Demon Hunter legit made me quit the game in 2020. I liked the class, but every single game was just DH over and over cause it was busted.
Worse is that DH completely WARPED how the game was designed from then onward and the game has been less healthy for it ever since.
Oh no one class draws so many cards no other class can keep up we will just have everyone draw an insane amount of cards now. You good? No blizard not a fan personally
Love the new video format you're trying. Keep up the good work!
My favourite class. Relics and Soulshards were awesome
The biggest issue with DH is that it's core class identity is both Card Draw and Mana Cheat. The fact Mana Cheating is like a theme for a class to begin with is nonsense. It is naturally going to cause massive issues in designing/balancing cards when there is hardly any baseline to draw from. Card Draw only further exasperates any issues because of how quickly anything can be drawn into. Hence why the class has no middle ground. It's either going to be absurd or unplayable, and it's blizzards fault for designing the class in such a ridiculous way. The game, since 2020, has been forced to accelerate the other classes, and destroying what was once foundational aspects of the classes.
hey look the class that clicks time warp on turns 2 and 3 for 1 mana
It’s suppose to be priest that wears the crown of being a total failure of a class that everyone hates on but Demon Hunter is special because not only is it a failure, it’s sheer existence led to the overall power level of the game needing to be boosted in order to keep up with the powercreep of Demon Hunter.
Elemental mage is good for the game because it forces your opponent to actually try to stop something. Unless they are shaman throwing every removal in the universe, that is.
Relic DH was when i put 600 games in to the DH class, Relic DH my beloved.
I honestly forgot about Relic DH, reading your comment brought back so many memories. I never played it, but I remember having to play against it with pally for months on end
DH made me quit the game, after Ashes of Outland and Scholomance made me tired of the class I saw the annoucement of Darkmoon Faire, saw Ilgynoth or wathever it's name was and said nope!
Rarran will love to see this video
5:44 “I don’t know what else to say” there are like 10 minutes left 😭
Demon hunter gets some incredibly fun cards and then 0 support
I remember on release I built demon hunter deck with only life steal and card draw, almost no minions and couple of weapons. It was suprisingly effective.
You could put together ANY combination of 30 demonhunter cards on release and do well.
Thematically, I really like Naga, and would love to see Naga DH support. That's why I hate Blindeye Sharpshooter - so long as it exists, or at least in standard, blizzard would refuse to print Naga support for DH, since if they do Sharpshooter will limit that archetype to its uninteractive OTK shell. Of course, there's an incredibly intuitive and easy solution to that - rework Sharpshooter while printing more Naga payoffs, in order to push this archetype to a less polarizing, more interactive and more interesting direction.
But that would require Blizzard to spend the tiniest bit of effort into improving the dogshit quality of the content they have already released, which is obviously a big no no.
DH is busted as hell sadly. And I don't enjoy playing or playing against 4-6 turn aggros.
Honestly seeing gunslinger kurtrus makes me wish that there was a "hand trick" demon hunter (cards that try to fuck with the opponents hand in interesting ways like glide, Star Student Stelina and Prosecutor Meltranix)
Damn bro really putting in that production value. Nice
Although I love the powerpoints but this and the last video are just really nice
About Demon Hunter, it feels like Blizzard uses it to experiment, like "can Charge feel balanced on aggro?", "Are 1 mana hero powers fine?", "How much lifesteal is acceptable?", "When card draw draws too many cards?"
That on itself is nice, but damn when you look at the wild collection the class is ALL over the place. Comboish, some slower tools, some payoff cards unsupported, some big demons, some aggro, and that doesn't feel great to have
I'd argue Gunslinger Kurtrus might be even worse than Solia. Maybe not Kruul, but Solia at least does something every time you play her. Kurtrus has a not insignificant chance of doing anything meaningful. You could have printed him without the highlander requirement and I think it would be totally fair.
Talking about Mage not interacting with you when Elemental Mage burns you from hand with Lamplighter and fire spells is wild
Big fan of these types of videos, youre putting in work 🎉
Relics and Spell DH in standard with the scythe was pretty fun back during nathria/festival/titans, Jotun made it even more fun and is probably my favorite DH card ever printed and the only dustable sig I haven't dusted. Outcast is a decent mechanic and something they should have leaned into again with this xpac; the hand-shuffling cards are a fun idea and could have added another layer to the playstyle.
The crewmates are too expensive and slow with almost no tutoring and limited buffing potential. They are also too random with some keywords being useless depending on the game-state and no way to target other keywords. It also completely disrespects hand economy; So you dropped 4 6/6 bodies for 4 mana on turn 5 or 6 after playing a few Draenei hand-buffs. What now? Your hand is fucking empty. Other classes can do that with one or two cards but you just emptied your hand for a mid-game tempo play that just keeps you alive for another turn and costs the opponent one card to clear. The mana-cost is almost irrelevant when you have to invest so many _cards_ into such mediocre plays with no repeatable value - Dirdra should have been written as "resurrect your crewmates" or at the very least made the crewmates she shuffles cast-when-drawn (it's sad that this would actually make her better despite clearly ignoring the "hand-adjacent" mechanic they were designed around) instead of literally _making your draw and your deck worse for an aggro package that is already too slow to be aggro._
Imagine a Hunter card that shuffled a bunch of hard-copy secrets into your deck that you had to draw and play naturally instead of just using endless discovers on pre-forged titan traps.... Hearthstone just isn't that game in 2024.
I was very hyped at the launch but I lost the desire to play with how broken it was and that feeling never went away.
I can still say Demon Hunter have the most intresting and useful hero power, it's strong, mana effective, and high risk decision making as you need to use your face to kill minions
I feel like that priest is kinda in the same shoes where it is either the best class or totaly useless and they don't know what they want to do with the class.
Didn't even mention the new Among Us DH disaster. I did make a pretty fun deck with it using Velen, but it was like a 40% winrate deck in legend. I also climbed to legend a bunch of times with a Illidari Inquisitor deck early in the year, but I never saw anyone else play a deck like it. Kibler made some good highlander DH decks this year too, but it seems like so few people experiment with the class.
I’ve also surprisingly had a lot of success with the crewmates, glad to see someone else who tried them out!
Quest relic scythe demon hunter was one of my favorite decks of all time, so glad they haven't printed anything like that since, more aggro please!
I love this new style of video and the vibe
Let's be honest. Even though Demon Hunter might be a failure as a class, the most-hated class will always be Priests, and most-dominant, toxic, and frustrating to play against will always be Druid.
I believe that practically all DH cards could become Warlock or Rogue cards and none would notice
I like aggro decks and drawing cards, so I have an affinity for Demon Hunter. But yeah, it’s either boom or bust with Demon Hunter. To be honest, I think there’s a LOT of design issues with Hearthstone in general. Druid always gets insane ramp that breaks the game, Rogue basically only gets thief cards, Mage was random discovers for years, Hunter basically had a year straight of Big Beast expansions and barely anything else playable, etc. Some card packages are DOA and never get buffed, while others get buffed minimally. And other card packages end up being completely busted right out of the gate. There’s no design or balance consistency.
DH was just a badly designed class tbh. I think they really struggled to give the class an actual identity. I feel like the original idea was to make a class that focused on attacking with your hero every turn and using that to fuel your minions or allow strong use of lifesteal cards to heal back up that health. But in practice that mostly just meant playing aggro and going face all the time. So when it came to trying to push different playstyles, they either fell flat or became degen combo decks (Sharpshooter for example).
It doesn't help that the current game right now doesn't really care about board control, so now all DH does is swing face every turn or play charge minions that also just go face.
I think Relic demon hunter was quite fun, and not really that hated. it was kinda fair while also being I'LL SUMMON A LARGER AND LARGER MAN.
Sadly that entire arch-type seem to be often forgotten after MOTLK where Questline OTK no minion DH ruled the game for a bit.
Scholomance Soul Fragment Demon Hunter felt really fun to play back in the day. Darkmoon Faire Il'Gynoth OTK was literally one of my all time favourite decks. Forged In The Barrens Deathrattle Demon Hunter was memorably cause I think it was my first time in legend. I can't remember any memorable DK decks since. It's a nostalgia class.
The best way to play demon hunter is aggro and aggro as an archetype just doesn’t feel unique to me. It is basically “I hit your face super fast” and if there is enough interaction from the opponent or healing then you just go GG and go next game. Aggro is just too repetitive and there isn’t much room for adding cool cards that don’t just break the deck.
I'm still sad Kurtrus never saw play. I love the card for how unique its design is, yet it has does nothing but sit in a collection gathering dust.
Really sad that all of the HL cards are rotating even though most of them saw close to 0 play and should have at least received some buffs. DH and Priest payoffs are so absolutely terrible, and that's even bringing up the fact that we actually had a SECOND neutral HL payoff that wouldn't even be played if it had no condition.
Bro has really cooked with the recent videos.
Change every instance of demon hunter with priest and we have the same thoughts.
I like mongus deck
"It's a new class, it needs strong cards to people want to risk it instead of staying in the confort zone of established classes"
It has been 4 years, you can stop.
Oh DH, they could never make me hate you...........................
even if you really disappoint me sometimes
I really liked the prestor DH few expansion ago tho
I stopped playing hearthstone around 2017 and came back at the beginning of this year, but since then DH is one of my favourite classes with 600+ wins. I think a lot of the hate DH gets comes from the trauma people got when it got released. I didn't experience DH being op and therefore i dont hold any animosities towards DH.
12:57 that shit came from the soul
It's interesting because in WoW, demon hunter also lacks an identity. Sigils are a bit of a flop that don't feel great in that game so the translation to hearthstone also sucks. At least with DK they have thematic sauce
Kurtrus is so bad its actually unreal, you would expect that he would get ANY buff like getting rush or something but nope, they just wasted a slot of a legendary for DH and didn’t even bother to make anything else in the class related to highlander.
I will at least say that they hit the flavor better than a lot of classes this expansion. Space rebel types, yeah, common sci-fi trope and Demon Hunter's renegade tendencies fit well into that and their Crewmate mechanics. Whereas you have things like Death Knight that have cool cards but the flavor's completely, well, airlock breached out the pod.
I wonder how much demonhunter is also cannibalizing diesgn space from other "stuck being weird and toxic winner" rogue.
That's why DH is my favourite class, i can relate to it 🥲
At least Pirate DH is a balanced aggro deck. Elemental mage on the other hand is not. The former plays like a proper aggro deck: it kicks off early and quickly but it can run out of steam and relies on board for damage, can run out of steam and can be outaggroed. Elemental mage on another hand literally does everything: it floods the board, it has infinite card draw, it has control tools, it has tons of damage from hand to the point of OTK potential. Talk about design failure.
Does he know
@@boach1685 if u can survive a turn with mage having 7 minions on board and not killing them for one turn they are gg out of the game because of breaking the elemental chain :)
@@puiu976 if the mage got 7 minions on board you died already bro
@@kujojotarostandoceanman2641 i play druid and wheel warlock i can stall a turn pretty well. mage plays that minion that summons a copy of itself i can let that board live for a turn with some armor/ full health
no way elemental mage is healthy for the game. maybe it would be fair if they didnt print lamplighter
death knight is a success inspite of the runes
Flare is just the best when he complains on bad designs, prove me wrong
Forge of the Barren DH was the best area for the class in my opinion
when demon hunter gets a good deck those past few expansions i just try it a couple of games and then drop it to never play it again, they're just not as enjoyable as relics was to me
you got a point, relics was peak, but most demon hunter playstyle are still fun
@kujojotarostandoceanman2641
I also liked outcast, but stuff like pirate and shopper idk it just didn't catch my interest
By the same ticket is Shaman a failure? Both classes have the exact same problem of getting 90% awful unplayable cards across a variety of completely incompatible archetypes and then 10% absurdly broken guys that get super nerfed
I think this analysis really missed talking about how many fucking awful cards DH has they had to buff the Relic package a bunch of times to be playable
I mean you could easily say shaman in it's like, first 3~ years was the worst designed class in the game no question. It hasn't had these issues even remotely as bad as DH has in the last few years but of the original 9 its 100% shaman is the worst made, even considering priest which also was terrible for a long time, but then they printed kotft and priest hasn't had those issues the same ever since
In true... it was i who was betrayed! Illidan
idea for demon hunter, add an "exhaust" mechanic
where you can exhaust a card to get stronger benefit, by depleting a secondary green mana crystal
in order replenish green crystal/exhaust players must perform "outcasts" or successfully trigger a "sigil"
stronger effect can improve card draw by + amount, gives hero attack power, gaining lifesteal or additional effects on your hero
print a card that can only use "exhaust" as a mechanic a.k.a spending green mana crystals to be cast and used
or a minions that gives you green mana crystal on kill to fight for board
demon hunter starts with 3 green mana crystal to spend (can have a maximum of 10)
example:
Fiery Fel Blade (2 mana cost Fel Spell)
Deals 2 damage to a minion
Exhaust (2) Deals damage to all enemy minion instead
The only reason demon hunter is constantly a disappointment is the fact a lot of cards in the class got nerfed into oblivion (and Mana Burn not being part of the core set which is extremely criminal)
mana burn is one of the most broken, terribly designed cards of all time and I didn't put it on my top 10 list strictly cause I don't want more people to know about that card
@ that card’s used in some decks to be a real troll move (same with Glide’s outcast effect)
The devs continually thought they were making a class that resembled its WoW counterpart which is famous for being easy to play but still hard to master.
Thats not what happened in the card game tho, they thought they were making Hunter but instead it’s just the bastard child of Rogue and Druid. Mass draw, mass means to discount the cards and combos out the ass.
@@vinnythewebsurferWoW DH isn't hard to master, in both specs you can bash your face against the keyboard and still give good impact. He is very intuitive.
We shouldve gotten monk instead
Meh I think they have given up on giving each class a unique identity.
Isn't pirate DH a tier 2 right now?
Shaman was my favorite class since 2015, then DH became my favorite, im a wild player and i love off meta decks, have 1300 wins with highlander DH, got legend with my own deck
But i dont like wild now, never thought dh would be close to the best class in wild, dh and dk used to be shit
Questline dh is a mana cheating deck and its awful to face, just like spell druids, big shaman and quasar rogue games ending before turn 5 with no counterplay
Playing at wild legend now ive seen opponents concede to me (thinking im Questline) is so stupid lol
I love DH for its OTK potential. I think Hearthstone players just dislike OTKs.
aranna my beloved, aranna my waifu
I actually really liked the relics they were fun
I'm still waiting to play a slow dh deck copium
3:59 is Hunter seen as a slow class nowadays lol???
Compared to what's actually fast yeah? Hunter has literally 0 good 1 and 2 drops for playing aggressively so that seems pretty damn slow to me
I wish it had more interesting stuff instead of another random expansion that supports no archetype and tries to make a new one
Я оценил выбор музыки
you wanna talk about boring talk about mage bro, the entire mage playstyle is just put the strongest card in the deck and that's it
I played a renathal against a mage with ONLY direct face damage cards other day, of course it won...
NAGASPELLNAGASPELLNAGASPELLNAGASPELL
Lt. Eddy literally proves you wrong through sheer aura
so in yugioh terms... Demon hunter is red eyes? :D
Thank God, new video
DH is my favourite class. It offers unique and dynamic gameplay with weird archetypes like Naga DH, Ilgynoth, Questline, Fel, Relics. The problem is that anytime it’s good, it gets nerfed hard immediately and the entire class goes to dumpster for the rest of the expansion cycle. And as you said, those nerfs don’t even get reverted after rotation. So now we have boring pirates for 2 expansions in a row.
bro, how's warrior is dogshit in sunken city, aren't there a deck called pirate warrior with nelly in it and it's really stomp everything in standard? kinda weird you saying that
Did you just ignore the fact that during sunken city, like not even far in that warrior got gigantic nerfs to nelly, from the depths, and multiple other cards? Like are you just ignoring that and going "um akshully" without thinking for a second? Kinda weird you saying that
I had a lot of fun playing shopper Demon Hunter in Wizzbang, but we all knew that archetype was temporary. What does DH have left?
Pirates which shaman does better, nagas with no support, card draw with nothing to draw for, and what?
When I try to build a DH deck, I look at my collection and it feels like demon hunter cards don’t do things. What does the class build around?
Yea I finally dusted dh again, had all cards crafted for years, but I didnt wanna play naga dh... and theres nothing else lol
I've been playing with Going down Swinging, fun card but not always good. It more or less needs Climbing Hook or Instrument Smasher to be reliable board clear, but it has been fun playing the deck with cards like Blingtron 3000, and becuse of how stupid Sigil of Skydiving and Dangerous Cliffside is I've managed to slot Gormok into the deck to really meme the hell out of the deck.
aranna my wife
can't wait for the follow-up video in two years : "monk is a Massive failure"
to be fair dk is good aside from the rune system being abandoned
Who wanna play battlegrounds duo
Nah demon hunter gets the funnest gameplay,
Yeah DH has been just a very meh class in Hearthstone, the only deck I really care for is Big DH and even then it's not super good
Mana Burn
I don't want to talk about that card anymore it's seared into my brain what idiot made it
to me its seems that they saw how strong DH was in launch and became scared to repeat that again
I love this channel, it's nothing but hating hearthstone
Do one for priest