▼EXPAND FOR TOOL LINKS and INFO▼ Watch Next - Woodpeckers Should be Worried - th-cam.com/video/xz9BoBKOT5o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-H221PTz7RixxXVb iGaging Layout Squares (if out of stock, sign up for email stock notifications. More are on the way) - lddy.no/1jmhd iGaging Aluminum Bench Squares - lddy.no/1jmhf iGaging Stainless Bench Squares - lddy.no/1jmhe iGaging Combination Square - lddy.no/1jmhh iGaging Digital Caliper - lddy.no/1jmhg iGaging Digital Router Set Up - lddy.no/1jn1y Woodpeckers Tools in this Video: Woodpeckers 1281 Square - amzn.to/3U6w0Ul Woodpeckers Stainless Squares - amzn.to/4b4AkdE Woodpeckers Delve Square SS - amzn.to/3W60uIJ Woodpeckers Aluminum Delve Square - amzn.to/49PRj2i Woodpeckers inDexable Combination Square - amzn.to/4aJpv0R Starette Combination Square - amzn.to/3JuWnyh (If you use one of these Amazon and other affiliate links, I may receive a commission) Never miss another tool deal. Sign up for my Tool Deals SMS Alerts - NOTE: I text out tool deals so you don’t miss any! text DEALS to 1 (731) 207-7151 Be sure to add DEALS to your text to me so you get added to the proper list. You can also click this link my.community.com/731woodworks Important to add the word DEALS to the text! 🇺🇸 Join the Tubafour Nation on Patreon to get an exclusive Tubafour Nation sticker, access to exclusive member-only behind-the-scenes videos, member-only livestreams, discounts, and other cool member-only perks! www.patreon.com/731woodworks Some other useful links: Daily Tool Deals on my website: www.731woodworks.com/tool-deals Subscribe to our email Newsletter: mailchi.mp/7e44c16eefdc/731-woodworks-email-newsletter Check out our easy-to-follow woodworking plans: www.731woodworks.com/store Outlaw's Board Butter - So Good it Should be Outlawed: www.731woodworks.com/store/boardbutter
I am a manufacturing quality engineer. For us, Mitutoyo (Mit-too-toe-yo), is high end like Woodpeckers. However we have began getting a lot of iGaging calipers, micrometers and others because they are accurate enough and half the price. I would not hesitate to buy their products.
My dad was a machinist back in the 80’s. When he retired and moved south I got his old machinist chest and inside was a mitutoyo analog micrometer, thing is still accurate to this day and is a joy to handle.
I've got a 3 piece combination square set from iGauging. Had to special order it. 4 scales on the main ruler - 0.5mm / 1mm / 32nds / 64ths. Other two are a corner bisecting gauge and a protractor gauge. Awesome set, amazingly accurate.
I enjoy your videos and this one was no exception. It is good for woodworkers to have options at different price points as illustrated by your video. Woodpecker tools, however, lately seems to have a lot of competition challenging their value proposition. While good, I will only say this: when you buy Woodpeckers, you can be assured it will be 100% accurate 100% of the time and it’s hard ( or perhaps easy) to put a price on that. When I was starting out almost 50 years ago, I wanted the very best combination square available, so (at great expense) I acquired a Starrett square. I loved everything about it, from its silky smooth adjustments to its satisfying heft in hand. Accuracy was assumed, it was a Starrett after all, a machinist tool. Recently, I bought a Woodpeckers Delve square which I then used to check my Starrett. Much to my shock, while dead on at 90°, my cherished Starrett was just ever so slightly off at 45°. No amount of adjusting or fiddling corrected this. Just ever so slightly off, but that’s too much. My disappointment is hard to adequately express. I needed a new combination square, but which to buy?? I decided on the Woodpeckers indexable combination square, painfully expensive for sure, but you know what, it proved to be dead on accurate at both 90° and 45° at every position. That is what I paid for and I have no regrets. Any other brand, who knows about their consistency, and what do you use as a benchmark to evaluate against? If I cannot 100% trust Starrett, I’m not going to trust a company producing tools selling at much, much lower prices. The quality of cheap tools can change at any minute. I love that little delve square by the way. Keep the great content coming!
I have had a 12" Craftsman combo square for at least 40 years. The only thing I have done is to get a new blade (Blem from Taylor Tools) since the old Blade was getting hard to read due to age and corrosion. Always accurate.
I have a couple of 6-inch dial calipers from iGauging that read in fractional inches. For most woodworking tasks I find them to be more convenient than my digital calipers. The nice thing about dial calipers is you see not just the current reading but also how close the reading is to the next fractional unit. With digital calipers you just see the current reading. To determine how close you are to the next 1/16”, you have to do some math in your head. It’s not difficult, but seeing how close the needle is to the next 1/16” mark is easier and quicker.
Recently picked up the iGaging double squares (4 and 6 inch) and love them. Double squares are an acquired taste but I like using them for small measurements, and marking. It also works great with making sure my table saw blade is square and getting those small blade height measurements. I know some people have said they slip easily, but I haven't had that issue so it was $34 well spent for the pair.
I know the Igaging one gets lots of good reviews from influencers, but I bought the layout square set they sell about three (ish) years ago and the 12” was off by an 1/8 of an inch.
I did the same thing, just to find out they aren’t only square but the inch markings are way off. They are so bad I wouldn’t even give them away. I do like their digital calipers, but other than that, I’ll stick to Woodpeckers and Starrett.
The squareness of the Woodpecker 1281 is within 0.001" over the total length, but the engraved dimensions along the length are only accurate to 0.008" over the total length. That's still fine for work I do, because I rarely need to measure length to that accuracy. I personally trust my Starrett combination square more than my Woodpecker 1281. And the Starrett is more immune to dings from accidental drops because it's hardened steel vs. aluminum.
As a former auto technician I get Woodpeckers, it's like Snap-On. Crazy expensive, but if you use it professionally, daily, abuse them, and need them for production, they are worth it. But for 99% of us, it's not worth the price. I'm glad there's an alternative that is 85% as good for 50% of the money.
I think even for the production wood shops these would serve as well and as long as wood peckers. Quality is the same, features the same and sometimes better with very few less features tools. And both are far more accurate than woodworking requires which is a good thing. In my years as a Comercial electrician I only bought good quality tools that cost double the cheap ones and that's because they were built better and lasted far longer being cheaper long term, same applies to for the most part to tool trucks, high quality but their only real advantage is they finance and come to the shops weekly so if a tool breaks you don't have to run to a store. Harbor freights icon line is almost if not as good as snap on, matco and others but replacement is a pain. Wood workers rarely need that sort of service and and quality of iguaging is the same as the other big names but for half the price and all will last a lifetime unless dropped and it won't matter th the brand at that point anyway.
I agree as well. I try to support American made first. For that reason, I have purchased a few of the Woodpeckers tools and am very happy with them. The absolute last thing I will do is support any products made in China.
I can't recommend the iGaging 4" and 7" Aluminum Bench Squares (triangle shaped squares). I bought them as a set and both of the blades were bent and therefore out of square. There was also a gap in the 7" square where the blade was seated into the base and some noticeable glue squeeze out in the same area. I also saw several reviews that had the same issue. Because of the packaging (which was decent) and the condition the packaging was in when it arrived, I do not think it was bent in shipping but likely a quality control issue. While I don't recommend these products iGaging products are generally solid.
I have the 1281 and the Woodpeckers 24” T square. Wish I knew about iGauging last year, but I’ll say the last few cabinets I put together went together REALLY tight
I'm just starting out. I bought the Skill saw and Bosh router you suggested. I have a cheap framing square. With a budget to buy one more measuring tool this quarter, which square do I get first; Bench, Layout, or Combination? Which do I buy second?
Good stuff! Regarding the digital caliper, I have one from Harbor Freight that (of course) cost a small fraction of the good ones. If there are any issues with it I sure haven't seem them. Perhaps not what a machinist would want, but it is all anyone would need for woodworking.
Thank you very much for the comparison and reviews, Matt! You sold me on iguaging. .002 is certainly accurate enough for me. I love the honesty and thoroness of your videos!! 😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤
Thumbs up on the iGaging digital tools. Height and depth, they make several versions of each…also many DROs (drill press, planer, table saw fence, etc.)…and another one I recently bought and like: a digital flatness gauge to check the sole of hand planes. Not a subject here, but there are a lot of useful digital tools for motor vehicle service (example: disk brake caliper runout; disk brake caliper thickness). 🎉
Igaging tools are contract manufactured in China (exception being their digital tools) and thus can come from numerous sources. Chinese workers are paid an average $5.50/hr wage. Any number of watchdog sites can fill you in on the horrendous working conditions for workers, though some companies, like Apple, require 3rd party verified standards from their contract partners. Woodpeckers tools are all made in the same factory in Ohio.
You did not include the comps. for the dual wrist guages aka Handcuffs hanging in the background. For the wood shop I would be interested in knowing for what jobs this tool is essential. Thanks for including price comps. in your review. Ray Stormont
Hi! First of all I wanted to say that I learn a lot from your videos. I wanted to ask, what tools for marking and measuring do you recommend using and do they have measurements in centimeters. Because unfortunately most of the tools you use are marked in inches. Thank you!
I've bought several Woodpeckers items and been happy with them all. They're made in the next state over (Ohio) from me so I do like the idea of supporting midwest jobs and I'll pay a little premium for it. Plus they arrive super fast being so close.
One thing that should be considered when purchasing digital calipers is the actual electronics withing them. I watched a video many months ago that explains it but I don't remember the details. Main point is that calipers, like I have, have a constant drain on the battery and better calipers do not. I ended up buying a 10 pack of batteries to deal with it instead of removing and re-installing the battery every time I used it.
Another issue I've yet to see covered in these different digital calipers is holding zero. Cheaper ones tend to lose zero pretty quickly. I reload my own ammo and calipers must be accurate and I find I have to constantly recheck and reset zero on cheaper ones. I need just break down and buy a good pair just for the reloading bench and leave the cheap ones in the shop where they won't get used as much or be as critical in accuracy.
11:09 I had to freeze the video for a second when you said they line up. However, there is a variance as the scale goes up. At the bottom they appear to line up but as it progresses up the line the measurements are visibly off increasingly. Woodpeckers seems to be consistent while iGauging is not. The question comes down to is the cost difference justify that offset. If you’re working on fine furniture I would agree that accuracy is of the utmost importance. Though in my opinion I would not be using either product for that.
I thought that too, but as he tracks up the scales the lines shift. It looks like a parallax effect and not that much of a difference in scale. The Woodpecker scale is higher off the table or its blade is thicker.
I bought a set of igaging layout squares off Amazon, first set the 12” was bent, replacement was not square, the 7” was fine with both. When I say “not square” I mean an 1/8 inch separation over 12” after flipping the square,on a track saw cut edge. I’d rather support a company that QCs their stuff before sending it out.
I have most all the igaging squares, but I will say I've had 2 that wasn't square and out quite a bit but was able to get replacements easily. I like what woodpeckers produce but it's hard to always justify the cost versus igaging which is why I went that route
I guess something I don’t understand is the different uses for the layout squares and the bench square, other than the angle. I have a framers square for finding angles, if I get the layout squares am I set or is there really something I’m just missing entirely?
Igaging makes a fastener caliper that is great. There are several digital calipers out there that do fractions. But they go down to 128ths. How often do we need that in woodworking. The fastener calipers has a setting to measure down to 16ths. It does also do metric, fractional to 128ths, and thousands. I rarely ever take it off the 16th setting. I like it so much I have 3 of them. One at the workbench, one at the planer, and one that moves around the shop. And it is only about $35 the last time I bought on.
My wife purchased the Woodpeckers In-Dexable Double Square for me for Christmas. She thought she was doing a wonderful thing. I’m not telling her it’s a piece of crap. The first thing I noticed is it doesn’t start out on the full inch on both ends. The one end starts out at 1” the other starts out at 6 ⅜”. That extra ⅜” has screwed up a few measurements. The 2nd thing is that little button popped out after about 6 times using it. I do like the tab at the end of the handle though.
I have the igaging square pair. One is okay but the other is off by 1/32" from the end of the rule. I prefer Woodpeckers for measurement tools. Not mentioned in the video is if you sign up for Woodpeckers mailing list, you can get good discounts with their daily sales.
I saw you today walking in the mall right outside the Apple Store. I almost said something to you, but thought you might think I was weird. Was good to see you in person.
I love my igaging digital caliber. It measures down to a fraction that is ridiculously accurate, but it has another mode called nut. That rounds measurement to nearest common fraction like a bolt, nut, dowel,or drill bits.
Ive seen a few youtubers reviewing these as great for the price, but amazon reviews have a lot of complaints where the squares are extremely put of square with photos. They also say that getting them to actually replace them takes months.
The stainless bench square holds up well it serves as my baby square in my framing rig and comerical electrician occidental leather bags. It's nice to have something that feels heafty in the hand.
This video just put a dent on my wallet, but it was nowhere nearly as bad as the hit my wallet would have suffered from Woodpeckers. GREAT VIDEO!!!!!!!
I’ve recently bought three pairs of iGaging squares: the bench/carpenter’s squares with stainless steel blades and aluminum blades, and the aluminum layout squares. Unfortunately, not one of the six is square on the outside, and the reason is the same in each case. With every one of them, the blade protrudes noticeably from the heel. It’s an odd fault because it should be trivially easy to take care of that when assembling the squares. I assume not all of their squares have this fault, so I may be unlucky.
Hats off to Woodpeckers for convincing a small portion of the public that only they have access to the fact that one inch is exactly 25.4 millimeters, and only they can etch little lines in aluminum and steel in accurate increments of this. Don't be fooled! When I see a comparison between Woodpeckers and a "budget" tool, which actually shows us the actual inaccuracy of the budget option, I'll consider spending a month's gas for a ruler.
They definitely make some good stuff that i will probably buy in the future, though on the squares i read some reviews where people said they weren't square, etc. Most reviews were good though. I just bought the 6" and 12" Woodpeckers SS squares, and i'll admit they are very expensive. It was $240 for the set and i still want to buy more of their stuff, just don't have the money right now lol.
0.001” over the entire blade length (Wood Peckers) is a very different tolerance than 0.002” PER INCH (iGaging), which could be well in excess of 0.01” over the blade length. Not sure if you quoted the tolerances correctly?
@@bodyflight2388 I noticed the same thing. So as you say, 1.4 thou tolerance on 7 inch and 2.4 thou on 12 inch for iGaging squares, while Woodpeckers is 1 thou over 12 inches and about 0.6 thou over 7 inches. You could say that the Woodpeckers is almost 2.5X more accurate than the iGaging. Whether you need that accuracy is a different question.
Both sets of iGaging squares from KMS tools came in a cheaper blue plastic box with no tool shaped inserts. The larger square wasn’t 90 degrees. After sending in pictures and lamenting that the smaller of the two squares would likely be wasted if I returned the whole set, they sent me a replacement set without needing the old set sent back, which I do appreciate. I like my igaging combo square set with the angle and centre finder attachments I bought years ago. The bubble level on the combo square did have a leak in it though.
I have several Woodpeckers tools and think they are some nice quality tools. However. I will probably purchase one of my next measuring tools from i Gaging as they do look like a great tool too
1:23 I'm either misunderstanding what you're saying here or perhaps what you're saying is incorrect. First you say accuracy is 0.002"/in, which works out to 0.024" over the 12" length, then you say it's 0.002" over the length of the blade, so 0.002" total.
Matt, I've been wondering when somebody was going to make this video! I don't think I'd ever buy a woodpeckers product simply because I've already purchased a bunch of igaging stuff and it is every bit as high quality as woodpeckers if not better and much much more affordable!!! Awesome stuff!!! Peace be with you! 👊
I believe that some companies have all the pieces of a product manufactured outside the US and shipped to US. They are then just assembled in the US so the company can say MADE in the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong.
DFM also makes good stuff. I own their micro square and the small carpenter's square and they are very nice. I still need a good t-square which i will probably go with woodpeckers, but i also need a good combination square and i've been thinking of going starrett for that but not positive.
It depends on the type of work you do. A lot of woodworkers don’t have a bandsaw, and several have no need for a planer. They don’t do the same job, so it’s not as if you can get by with one if you have the other.
With all the advances in CNC and laser engravers it won't be too long before makers will be able to make their own rulers & squares that are on par with Starrett and Woodpeckers.
CORRECTION: iGaging's specification for accuracy is 0.0002" PER INCH, which means the 12" inch version is accurate to 0.0024", which is good enough for wood working.
Hi Matt I enjoy all your videos but feels that lately you are more of a tool salesman than a woodworker perhaps a few inspirational makes wouldn't go a miss. ❤
Thanks for the reply I was not aware of the feedback for the last Couple of builds i don't look through the comments that often to try and avoid negative people and form my own opinions. As for the channel content I guess what I was saying is that I enjoy Matts build videos a little more than the tools but all round love the channel .
Great video as always Matt I have bought a couple of things from Goingmakes and have been very happy with them and the price also. Have a question Matt have you tried any of the woodpecker router bits and if so, what do you think about them? Compared to like Whiteside, router, bits, and bits and bits. Or have you ever thought about doing your review on those?
I don't qualify as a woodworker. I am someone that does what needs to be done around the house. For my needs a Swanson speed square works great, and I can get along just fine with a carpenter's square for the bigger stuff. I realize that neither are as accurate as the woodpecker, but I also know that wood moves with the weather and those things are close enough for me.
So the red one is accurate to .001" over its 12 inch blade. The blue one is accurate to .002" over each inch, which makes it accurate to .024" over the length of its entire blade. A red company marketing person would point out that their square is 24 times (!) more accurate than the blue one. Does that difference matter in woodworking? .024" is a bit less than 1/32 so probably not, but accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.
I used to operate a vertical CNC machine and spent my day measuring with machinist tools so I know that even .002 thousands of an inch is nothing in woodworking. I had to hit tolerances of .003 + or ~ so the difference between the 2 squares is within the margin of error for a most CNC operations.
Basically the worst angle tolerance specified in DIN 875 standard (875/2) is about 0.12mm (or 0.0047 of an inch) per 1 meter (about 1 yard), so this means any DIN certified angle if good enough for any high end woodworking.
iGaging is a very good brand, i have the 4 and 7 inches bench squares, top quality, they are versatile and dead accurate, bought them a year ago in a set for $78 , not bashing woodpecker, but if iGaging can produce squares this accurate, AND affordable, WHY cant woodpecker do the same, why mark up the price to squeeze out the average woodworker, shouldn't the goal be to get woodpecker in the hands of EVERY woodworker ? but if the price is out of reach, HOW can they reach them ?
Came looking to see what kind of face mask you wear again and right now they have them on sale on Amazon for $6 so anyone looking to get a few should get them now. I ordered 3 because I know I’ll break one, lose one and the third I’ll have forever.
.015 is an inch out of square over 66 feet..001 is an inch out of square over a thousand feet..015 is almost an 1/8 inch over 8 feet. That's fairly significant, in my opinion.
I have had the Igaging Combination and the double square sets for several years now. They are excellent squares and I highly recommend their digital calipers as well. Good tools. They are as accurate as my old starrett and feel good in my hand. Just my 2 cents
And this is why the US is becoming second rather than first. We’re selling ourselves to China. I get it, great quality at half the price. I don’t have an answer for that. However I will say this. I have created and manufactured motorcycle performance air intake systems for close to 30 years. One unit we sold for around $700. You can buy from China for LESS than half price. Hard to argue with that right? However one thing that is better with ours is support and warranty. We offer lifetime warranty and complete satisfaction. Plus you don’t have to deal with ppl who can’t speak proper English. Not everyone can afford the best. This is why we’re falling…….fast. I’m a retired toolmaker of 50 plus years. Growing up it was Starrett or my favorite Brown and Sharpe. Pricey, you bet. For a lifetime of precision use…..not at all. Great video as always.
@@davidcorliss are you serious? Don’t you see what’s happening? At one time we were respected as a nation. Now we are the laughing stock of the world. Jobs that made our country great are disappearing left and right. We’re turning into a generation of ppl who can only push keys on a device. I’m truly sorry if you don’t get it. China pays next to nothing in labor. They have no EPA or standards. Parts I made needed to be chrome plated. Absolutely no way to compete with China for this reason. Maybe it sounds like sour grapes but dude. I created something that didn’t exist. Something of value. I paid my dues in advertising, patent costs, insurance. As well as my employees receiving high pay and benefits . And most of all time! God blessed me with a talent to make almost anything. All of this to loose millions by ppl in China looking at my stuff and copping it. You don’t think for one moment that Woodpecker didn’t get copied on those squares. Say what you will, I really like your channel and most of all because it’s obvious you’re a Christian as am I. Maybe you took it wrong about being first. However that’s still one great thing about the USA there is still freedom of speech. If made in the USA doesn’t mean something to ppl then it’s just plain sad. And I mean MADE in the USA, not simply assembled in the USA. Yet sadly the Chinese are starting to gain control in raw materials now as well. Sad state of affairs indeed.
@@davidcorliss you couldn’t be more correct . The values of the youth today are beyond sad. I joke telling ppl it’s the only good thing about old age ( 74 ) you won’t live long to see the end of society as we knew it lol.
I have a large collection of tools, handed down to me by generations of woodworkers in my family. Many starrett squares, rulers, etc... When adding new tools, I am selective, and try to buy the best that I can afford, and US made if possible. In machine tools, I would rather purchase used US made vintage than new foreign made. This is my choice, I realize, but it's what I feel is patriotic. I can't seem to find where the Igaging tools are made, which leads me to suspect it's not the US.
A Big issue with Woodpecker Tools is their distribution. I own a lot of their tools (though they are 2x in price over iGauging). Woodpeckers don’t sell on Amazon so if you don’t live in the USA or Canada, that 2x just went up to 4x. Speaking to them it looks like they are not interested in selling to “the rest of the world”. Ok, it’s just money I say.
▼EXPAND FOR TOOL LINKS and INFO▼
Watch Next - Woodpeckers Should be Worried - th-cam.com/video/xz9BoBKOT5o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=-H221PTz7RixxXVb
iGaging Layout Squares (if out of stock, sign up for email stock notifications. More are on the way) - lddy.no/1jmhd
iGaging Aluminum Bench Squares - lddy.no/1jmhf
iGaging Stainless Bench Squares - lddy.no/1jmhe
iGaging Combination Square - lddy.no/1jmhh
iGaging Digital Caliper - lddy.no/1jmhg
iGaging Digital Router Set Up - lddy.no/1jn1y
Woodpeckers Tools in this Video:
Woodpeckers 1281 Square - amzn.to/3U6w0Ul
Woodpeckers Stainless Squares - amzn.to/4b4AkdE
Woodpeckers Delve Square SS - amzn.to/3W60uIJ
Woodpeckers Aluminum Delve Square - amzn.to/49PRj2i
Woodpeckers inDexable Combination Square - amzn.to/4aJpv0R
Starette Combination Square - amzn.to/3JuWnyh
(If you use one of these Amazon and other affiliate links, I may receive a commission)
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Thank you for a wonderful cost affective alternative!
I am a manufacturing quality engineer. For us, Mitutoyo (Mit-too-toe-yo), is high end like Woodpeckers. However we have began getting a lot of iGaging calipers, micrometers and others because they are accurate enough and half the price. I would not hesitate to buy their products.
Mitutoyo is the best. Because Japan is the best.
Where you will see the biggest difference is battery life. Mitutoyo calipers just run forever. One of my favorite tools
Just wait ten years. My Starret and Mitimoros are still pasting bench tests
Why do you think the inch markings are off on the iguaging?
My dad was a machinist back in the 80’s. When he retired and moved south I got his old machinist chest and inside was a mitutoyo analog micrometer, thing is still accurate to this day and is a joy to handle.
Woodpeckers can compete by changing their name to Igouging.
Made me laugh, well played!
Nicely done! 😝
Now that’s funny
Well said.
🤣😂😅 nice word play amigo....👍
I've got a 3 piece combination square set from iGauging. Had to special order it. 4 scales on the main ruler - 0.5mm / 1mm / 32nds / 64ths. Other two are a corner bisecting gauge and a protractor gauge.
Awesome set, amazingly accurate.
Really appreciate the rundown on those. Would love to get woodpecker but can’t bring myself to spend that much.
Matt, I liked the comparison of these two manufactured woodworking tools!
Well done!
Very well documented differences on all the products shown, really appreciate the details!
I have the I-Gage and it is 1/4" out of square over the length of the blade (12").
I enjoy your videos and this one was no exception. It is good for woodworkers to have options at different price points as illustrated by your video. Woodpecker tools, however, lately seems to have a lot of competition challenging their value proposition. While good, I will only say this: when you buy Woodpeckers, you can be assured it will be 100% accurate 100% of the time and it’s hard ( or perhaps easy) to put a price on that. When I was starting out almost 50 years ago, I wanted the very best combination square available, so (at great expense) I acquired a Starrett square. I loved everything about it, from its silky smooth adjustments to its satisfying heft in hand. Accuracy was assumed, it was a Starrett after all, a machinist tool. Recently, I bought a Woodpeckers Delve square which I then used to check my Starrett. Much to my shock, while dead on at 90°, my cherished Starrett was just ever so slightly off at 45°. No amount of adjusting or fiddling corrected this. Just ever so slightly off, but that’s too much. My disappointment is hard to adequately express. I needed a new combination square, but which to buy?? I decided on the Woodpeckers indexable combination square, painfully expensive for sure, but you know what, it proved to be dead on accurate at both 90° and 45° at every position. That is what I paid for and I have no regrets. Any other brand, who knows about their consistency, and what do you use as a benchmark to evaluate against? If I cannot 100% trust Starrett, I’m not going to trust a company producing tools selling at much, much lower prices. The quality of cheap tools can change at any minute. I love that little delve square by the way. Keep the great content coming!
I have had a 12" Craftsman combo square for at least 40 years. The only thing I have done is to get a new blade (Blem from Taylor Tools) since the old Blade was getting hard to read due to age and corrosion. Always accurate.
I have a couple of 6-inch dial calipers from iGauging that read in fractional inches. For most woodworking tasks I find them to be more convenient than my digital calipers. The nice thing about dial calipers is you see not just the current reading but also how close the reading is to the next fractional unit. With digital calipers you just see the current reading. To determine how close you are to the next 1/16”, you have to do some math in your head. It’s not difficult, but seeing how close the needle is to the next 1/16” mark is easier and quicker.
Strong agree!
Recently picked up the iGaging double squares (4 and 6 inch) and love them. Double squares are an acquired taste but I like using them for small measurements, and marking. It also works great with making sure my table saw blade is square and getting those small blade height measurements. I know some people have said they slip easily, but I haven't had that issue so it was $34 well spent for the pair.
Great to hear!
I know the Igaging one gets lots of good reviews from influencers, but I bought the layout square set they sell about three (ish) years ago and the 12” was off by an 1/8 of an inch.
I did the same thing, just to find out they aren’t only square but the inch markings are way off. They are so bad I wouldn’t even give them away. I do like their digital calipers, but other than that, I’ll stick to Woodpeckers and Starrett.
Thank you for your great videos and your love of Christ. It’s nice to see boldness in this world. God Bless.
The squareness of the Woodpecker 1281 is within 0.001" over the total length, but the engraved dimensions along the length are only accurate to 0.008" over the total length. That's still fine for work I do, because I rarely need to measure length to that accuracy. I personally trust my Starrett combination square more than my Woodpecker 1281. And the Starrett is more immune to dings from accidental drops because it's hardened steel vs. aluminum.
As a former auto technician I get Woodpeckers, it's like Snap-On. Crazy expensive, but if you use it professionally, daily, abuse them, and need them for production, they are worth it. But for 99% of us, it's not worth the price. I'm glad there's an alternative that is 85% as good for 50% of the money.
I think even for the production wood shops these would serve as well and as long as wood peckers. Quality is the same, features the same and sometimes better with very few less features tools. And both are far more accurate than woodworking requires which is a good thing.
In my years as a Comercial electrician I only bought good quality tools that cost double the cheap ones and that's because they were built better and lasted far longer being cheaper long term, same applies to for the most part to tool trucks, high quality but their only real advantage is they finance and come to the shops weekly so if a tool breaks you don't have to run to a store. Harbor freights icon line is almost if not as good as snap on, matco and others but replacement is a pain.
Wood workers rarely need that sort of service and and quality of iguaging is the same as the other big names but for half the price and all will last a lifetime unless dropped and it won't matter th the brand at that point anyway.
@@JamesSmullins I can't argue with you there. Just like Snap-On, there are other alternatives that work just as well for a fraction of the cost.
I agree as well. I try to support American made first. For that reason, I have purchased a few of the Woodpeckers tools and am very happy with them. The absolute last thing I will do is support any products made in China.
Professionals don't use woodpeckers unless they're on TH-cam.
@@jimbok2492 haha. Really? Is there a go-to brand for people who do this for a living? Just curious.
I can't recommend the iGaging 4" and 7" Aluminum Bench Squares (triangle shaped squares). I bought them as a set and both of the blades were bent and therefore out of square. There was also a gap in the 7" square where the blade was seated into the base and some noticeable glue squeeze out in the same area. I also saw several reviews that had the same issue. Because of the packaging (which was decent) and the condition the packaging was in when it arrived, I do not think it was bent in shipping but likely a quality control issue. While I don't recommend these products iGaging products are generally solid.
I have the 1281 and the Woodpeckers 24” T square. Wish I knew about iGauging last year, but I’ll say the last few cabinets I put together went together REALLY tight
Thank you for doing this video, we need good quality companies that offer their products for an affordable price! Thank you!
For precision and durability, I buy Starrett. For most jobs, big box store stuff is good enough -- but, check them periodically with the Starrett.
I'm just starting out. I bought the Skill saw and Bosh router you suggested. I have a cheap framing square.
With a budget to buy one more measuring tool this quarter, which square do I get first; Bench, Layout, or Combination? Which do I buy second?
Good stuff!
Regarding the digital caliper, I have one from Harbor Freight that (of course) cost a small fraction of the good ones. If there are any issues with it I sure haven't seem them. Perhaps not what a machinist would want, but it is all anyone would need for woodworking.
I will be checking out the iGauging squares! Thank you for this information!
Just ordered the IGaging 12 inch layout square from Penn Tool Co.
Thank you very much for the comparison and reviews, Matt! You sold me on iguaging. .002 is certainly accurate enough for me. I love the honesty and thoroness of your videos!! 😊😊😊😊😊❤❤❤❤❤
Thumbs up on the iGaging digital tools. Height and depth, they make several versions of each…also many DROs (drill press, planer, table saw fence, etc.)…and another one I recently bought and like: a digital flatness gauge to check the sole of hand planes. Not a subject here, but there are a lot of useful digital tools for motor vehicle service (example: disk brake caliper runout; disk brake caliper thickness). 🎉
Igaging tools are contract manufactured in China (exception being their digital tools) and thus can come from numerous sources. Chinese workers are paid an average $5.50/hr wage. Any number of watchdog sites can fill you in on the horrendous working conditions for workers, though some companies, like Apple, require 3rd party verified standards from their contract partners. Woodpeckers tools are all made in the same factory in Ohio.
You did not include the comps. for the dual wrist guages aka Handcuffs hanging in the background. For the wood shop I would be interested in knowing for what jobs this tool is essential. Thanks for including price comps. in your review. Ray Stormont
Hi! First of all I wanted to say that I learn a lot from your videos. I wanted to ask, what tools for marking and measuring do you recommend using and do they have measurements in centimeters. Because unfortunately most of the tools you use are marked in inches. Thank you!
I've bought several Woodpeckers items and been happy with them all. They're made in the next state over (Ohio) from me so I do like the idea of supporting midwest jobs and I'll pay a little premium for it. Plus they arrive super fast being so close.
Yes, I'll support American made first, all the time even if it's a higher cost.
One thing that should be considered when purchasing digital calipers is the actual electronics withing them. I watched a video many months ago that explains it but I don't remember the details. Main point is that calipers, like I have, have a constant drain on the battery and better calipers do not. I ended up buying a 10 pack of batteries to deal with it instead of removing and re-installing the battery every time I used it.
Another issue I've yet to see covered in these different digital calipers is holding zero. Cheaper ones tend to lose zero pretty quickly. I reload my own ammo and calipers must be accurate and I find I have to constantly recheck and reset zero on cheaper ones. I need just break down and buy a good pair just for the reloading bench and leave the cheap ones in the shop where they won't get used as much or be as critical in accuracy.
The new Jessem squares look absolutely amazing.
11:09 I had to freeze the video for a second when you said they line up. However, there is a variance as the scale goes up. At the bottom they appear to line up but as it progresses up the line the measurements are visibly off increasingly. Woodpeckers seems to be consistent while iGauging is not. The question comes down to is the cost difference justify that offset. If you’re working on fine furniture I would agree that accuracy is of the utmost importance. Though in my opinion I would not be using either product for that.
I thought that too, but as he tracks up the scales the lines shift. It looks like a parallax effect and not that much of a difference in scale. The Woodpecker scale is higher off the table or its blade is thicker.
I bought a set of igaging layout squares off Amazon, first set the 12” was bent, replacement was not square, the 7” was fine with both. When I say “not square” I mean an 1/8 inch separation over 12” after flipping the square,on a track saw cut edge. I’d rather support a company that QCs their stuff before sending it out.
I prefer to support American companies
Why? Quality? Reliability? Overpricing? Competence?
I have most all the igaging squares, but I will say I've had 2 that wasn't square and out quite a bit but was able to get replacements easily. I like what woodpeckers produce but it's hard to always justify the cost versus igaging which is why I went that route
A tip I got with the blue one is with a thumbnail punch in the 0 like an anchor, put the pencil in your measure and make a perfect circle
I guess something I don’t understand is the different uses for the layout squares and the bench square, other than the angle. I have a framers square for finding angles, if I get the layout squares am I set or is there really something I’m just missing entirely?
Igaging makes a fastener caliper that is great. There are several digital calipers out there that do fractions. But they go down to 128ths. How often do we need that in woodworking.
The fastener calipers has a setting to measure down to 16ths. It does also do metric, fractional to 128ths, and thousands. I rarely ever take it off the 16th setting.
I like it so much I have 3 of them. One at the workbench, one at the planer, and one that moves around the shop.
And it is only about $35 the last time I bought on.
My wife purchased the Woodpeckers In-Dexable Double Square for me for Christmas. She thought she was doing a wonderful thing. I’m not telling her it’s a piece of crap. The first thing I noticed is it doesn’t start out on the full inch on both ends. The one end starts out at 1” the other starts out at 6 ⅜”. That extra ⅜” has screwed up a few measurements. The 2nd thing is that little button popped out after about 6 times using it. I do like the tab at the end of the handle though.
I have the igaging square pair. One is okay but the other is off by 1/32" from the end of the rule. I prefer Woodpeckers for measurement tools. Not mentioned in the video is if you sign up for Woodpeckers mailing list, you can get good discounts with their daily sales.
I saw you today walking in the mall right outside the Apple Store. I almost said something to you, but thought you might think I was weird. Was good to see you in person.
Cool. You shouldn’t said hello. Not weird at all.
I love my igaging digital caliber. It measures down to a fraction that is ridiculously accurate, but it has another mode called nut. That rounds measurement to nearest common fraction like a bolt, nut, dowel,or drill bits.
How well does it hold zero? This is a issue I've run into with lower priced digital calipers when reloading ammo.
@@JamesSmullins never had a problem. I always have calipers closed, turn on, hit zero reset -if needed. Always returns to zero during use.
Ive seen a few youtubers reviewing these as great for the price, but amazon reviews have a lot of complaints where the squares are extremely put of square with photos. They also say that getting them to actually replace them takes months.
The stainless bench square holds up well it serves as my baby square in my framing rig and comerical electrician occidental leather bags. It's nice to have something that feels heafty in the hand.
I searched the listed tools to find your marking pencil with no luck. What pencil is that?
This video is exceptional! Thank you
Glad it helped!
This video just put a dent on my wallet, but it was nowhere nearly as bad as the hit my wallet would have suffered from Woodpeckers. GREAT VIDEO!!!!!!!
I’ve recently bought three pairs of iGaging squares: the bench/carpenter’s squares with stainless steel blades and aluminum blades, and the aluminum layout squares. Unfortunately, not one of the six is square on the outside, and the reason is the same in each case. With every one of them, the blade protrudes noticeably from the heel. It’s an odd fault because it should be trivially easy to take care of that when assembling the squares. I assume not all of their squares have this fault, so I may be unlucky.
Hats off to Woodpeckers for convincing a small portion of the public that only they have access to the fact that one inch is exactly 25.4 millimeters, and only they can etch little lines in aluminum and steel in accurate increments of this. Don't be fooled! When I see a comparison between Woodpeckers and a "budget" tool, which actually shows us the actual inaccuracy of the budget option, I'll consider spending a month's gas for a ruler.
They definitely make some good stuff that i will probably buy in the future, though on the squares i read some reviews where people said they weren't square, etc. Most reviews were good though. I just bought the 6" and 12" Woodpeckers SS squares, and i'll admit they are very expensive. It was $240 for the set and i still want to buy more of their stuff, just don't have the money right now lol.
0.001” over the entire blade length (Wood Peckers) is a very different tolerance than 0.002” PER INCH (iGaging), which could be well in excess of 0.01” over the blade length. Not sure if you quoted the tolerances correctly?
Igaging website says “0.0002 per inch”, so it’s 0.0014 over 7” square - slightly less precise than Woodpeckers
@@bodyflight2388 That makes me feel better. I think Matt said 2 thousandths instead of 2 ten-thousandths.
@@bodyflight2388 I noticed the same thing. So as you say, 1.4 thou tolerance on 7 inch and 2.4 thou on 12 inch for iGaging squares, while Woodpeckers is 1 thou over 12 inches and about 0.6 thou over 7 inches. You could say that the Woodpeckers is almost 2.5X more accurate than the iGaging. Whether you need that accuracy is a different question.
Both sets of iGaging squares from KMS tools came in a cheaper blue plastic box with no tool shaped inserts.
The larger square wasn’t 90 degrees. After sending in pictures and lamenting that the smaller of the two squares would likely be wasted if I returned the whole set, they sent me a replacement set without needing the old set sent back, which I do appreciate.
I like my igaging combo square set with the angle and centre finder attachments I bought years ago. The bubble level on the combo square did have a leak in it though.
I have several Woodpeckers tools and think they are some nice quality tools. However. I will probably purchase one of my next measuring tools from i Gaging as they do look like a great tool too
1:23 I'm either misunderstanding what you're saying here or perhaps what you're saying is incorrect. First you say accuracy is 0.002"/in, which works out to 0.024" over the 12" length, then you say it's 0.002" over the length of the blade, so 0.002" total.
Matt, I've been wondering when somebody was going to make this video! I don't think I'd ever buy a woodpeckers product simply because I've already purchased a bunch of igaging stuff and it is every bit as high quality as woodpeckers if not better and much much more affordable!!! Awesome stuff!!! Peace be with you! 👊
Not the same quality as woodpeckers. The fact that you don't own anything made by woodpeckers does not excuse your ignorance.
@@thomasjerelejr6577 your correct it's not the same quality....it's better, thank you!
It's not about the budget, but you have to really love this company to invest so much money in two angle brackets.
Oh man, the Woodpeckers Bling shot got me laughing so hard.
I have a few iguaging tools and I’m very satisfied with them.
I believe that some companies have all the pieces of a product manufactured outside the US and shipped to US. They are then just assembled in the US so the company can say MADE in the USA. Correct me if I'm wrong.
DFM also makes good stuff. I own their micro square and the small carpenter's square and they are very nice. I still need a good t-square which i will probably go with woodpeckers, but i also need a good combination square and i've been thinking of going starrett for that but not positive.
I had to return some igaging squares last year b/c they were so far out of square. There may be alternatives to Woodpeckers, but it's not Igaging.
What's more important to have in your shop a planer or a band saw
It depends on the type of work you do. A lot of woodworkers don’t have a bandsaw, and several have no need for a planer. They don’t do the same job, so it’s not as if you can get by with one if you have the other.
@@DKWalser okay thank you
@731Woodworks Tell Tay Tools to carry metric versions of the IGauging tools.
Temu beats those prices. Great squares.
Line those Chicomm pockets.
I notice on the engraved scales, neither go all the way to the surface--not edge engraved. This does not enhance accuracy. why would they do that?
With all the advances in CNC and laser engravers it won't be too long before makers will be able to make their own rulers & squares that are on par with Starrett and Woodpeckers.
100% agree
.004" is said four thousandths or four thousandths of an inch...just FYI. Great review!
What kind of pencil are you using?
Pentel Graphgear 1000
Nice job!
Great episode, thank you!
Great video
I would have liked to see you test each one for squareness instead of just reading off the manufacturer claims like an infomercial.
very nice review. Detail not boring.
Much appreciated!
What desktop tripod are you using ? Keep up the videos they are awesome 👏 keep
CORRECTION: iGaging's specification for accuracy is 0.0002" PER INCH, which means the 12" inch version is accurate to 0.0024", which is good enough for wood working.
Where made?
How does DFM Toolworks compare?
Hi Matt I enjoy all your videos but feels that lately you are more of a tool salesman than a woodworker perhaps a few inspirational makes wouldn't go a miss. ❤
He's never claimed this was a woodworking channel if you look at his first video it's a tool review
The last two builds he did people accused him of ripping off other people's plans so why would he bother building something?
Thanks for the reply I was not aware of the feedback for the last Couple of builds i don't look through the comments that often to try and avoid negative people and form my own opinions. As for the channel content I guess what I was saying is that I enjoy Matts build videos a little more than the tools but all round love the channel .
Great video as always Matt I have bought a couple of things from Goingmakes and have been very happy with them and the price also. Have a question Matt have you tried any of the woodpecker router bits and if so, what do you think about them? Compared to like Whiteside, router, bits, and bits and bits. Or have you ever thought about doing your review on those?
I would like you to do a video comparing igauging to DFM. Since DFM cost less than Woodpeckers.
👊🏻
I don't qualify as a woodworker. I am someone that does what needs to be done around the house. For my needs a Swanson speed square works great, and I can get along just fine with a carpenter's square for the bigger stuff. I realize that neither are as accurate as the woodpecker, but I also know that wood moves with the weather and those things are close enough for me.
Thanks Matt
So the red one is accurate to .001" over its 12 inch blade. The blue one is accurate to .002" over each inch, which makes it accurate to .024" over the length of its entire blade. A red company marketing person would point out that their square is 24 times (!) more accurate than the blue one. Does that difference matter in woodworking? .024" is a bit less than 1/32 so probably not, but accuracy is in the eye of the beholder.
where is iGaging made? Did I miss that? oops, need to wait until the end.
Made in China. Designed in U.S., sort of. San Clemente, California.
I used to operate a vertical CNC machine and spent my day measuring with machinist tools so I know that even .002 thousands of an inch is nothing in woodworking. I had to hit tolerances of .003 + or ~ so the difference between the 2 squares is within the margin of error for a most CNC operations.
Basically the worst angle tolerance specified in DIN 875 standard (875/2) is about 0.12mm (or 0.0047 of an inch) per 1 meter (about 1 yard), so this means any DIN certified angle if good enough for any high end woodworking.
We want you to keep making videos, I hope they don’t silence you if you know what I mean (woodpecker “nice shop you have there”) just saying 😂
iGaging is a very good brand, i have the 4 and 7 inches bench squares, top quality, they are versatile and dead accurate, bought them a year ago in a set for $78 , not bashing woodpecker, but if iGaging can produce squares this accurate, AND affordable, WHY cant woodpecker do the same, why mark up the price to squeeze out the average woodworker, shouldn't the goal be to get woodpecker in the hands of EVERY woodworker ? but if the price is out of reach, HOW can they reach them ?
Who makes a good tee square besides Woodpecker?
Came looking to see what kind of face mask you wear again and right now they have them on sale on Amazon for $6 so anyone looking to get a few should get them now. I ordered 3 because I know I’ll break one, lose one and the third I’ll have forever.
.015 is an inch out of square over 66 feet..001 is an inch out of square over a thousand feet..015 is almost an 1/8 inch over 8 feet. That's fairly significant, in my opinion.
I'm not saying one is better, just depends on how accurate you need to be.
your right woodpecker should be scared thanks for the great review
I have had the Igaging Combination and the double square sets for several years now. They are excellent squares and I highly recommend their digital calipers as well. Good tools. They are as accurate as my old starrett and feel good in my hand. Just my 2 cents
And this is why the US is becoming second rather than first. We’re selling ourselves to China. I get it, great quality at half the price. I don’t have an answer for that. However I will say this. I have created and manufactured motorcycle performance air intake systems for close to 30 years. One unit we sold for around $700. You can buy from China for LESS than half price. Hard to argue with that right? However one thing that is better with ours is support and warranty. We offer lifetime warranty and complete satisfaction. Plus you don’t have to deal with ppl who can’t speak proper English. Not everyone can afford the best. This is why we’re falling…….fast. I’m a retired toolmaker of 50 plus years. Growing up it was Starrett or my favorite Brown and Sharpe. Pricey, you bet. For a lifetime of precision use…..not at all. Great video as always.
Why do we need to be 1st?
@@davidcorliss are you serious? Don’t you see what’s happening? At one time we were respected as a nation. Now we are the laughing stock of the world. Jobs that made our country great are disappearing left and right. We’re turning into a generation of ppl who can only push keys on a device. I’m truly sorry if you don’t get it. China pays next to nothing in labor. They have no EPA or standards. Parts I made needed to be chrome plated. Absolutely no way to compete with China for this reason. Maybe it sounds like sour grapes but dude. I created something that didn’t exist. Something of value. I paid my dues in advertising, patent costs, insurance. As well as my employees receiving high pay and benefits . And most of all time! God blessed me with a talent to make almost anything. All of this to loose millions by ppl in China looking at my stuff and copping it. You don’t think for one moment that Woodpecker didn’t get copied on those squares. Say what you will, I really like your channel and most of all because it’s obvious you’re a Christian as am I. Maybe you took it wrong about being first. However that’s still one great thing about the USA there is still freedom of speech. If made in the USA doesn’t mean something to ppl then it’s just plain sad. And I mean MADE in the USA, not simply assembled in the USA. Yet sadly the Chinese are starting to gain control in raw materials now as well. Sad state of affairs indeed.
@@Lwimmermastermetalartwe don't have the population to support those jobs here anymore
@@Lwimmermastermetalartfor every 5 baby boomers who leave the workforce there is only one person to replace them and it's going to get worse
@@davidcorliss you couldn’t be more correct . The values of the youth today are beyond sad. I joke telling ppl it’s the only good thing about old age ( 74 ) you won’t live long to see the end of society as we knew it lol.
I’m sure Temu has something similar for $5
I have a large collection of tools, handed down to me by generations of woodworkers in my family. Many starrett squares, rulers, etc... When adding new tools, I am selective, and try to buy the best that I can afford, and US made if possible. In machine tools, I would rather purchase used US made vintage than new foreign made. This is my choice, I realize, but it's what I feel is patriotic. I can't seem to find where the Igaging tools are made, which leads me to suspect it's not the US.
A Big issue with Woodpecker Tools is their distribution. I own a lot of their tools (though they are 2x in price over iGauging). Woodpeckers don’t sell on Amazon so if you don’t live in the USA or Canada, that 2x just went up to 4x.
Speaking to them it looks like they are not interested in selling to “the rest of the world”. Ok, it’s just money I say.
I bought the igaging squares, and the 12 inch one was not square
I'm a fan of iGaging. Doesn't mean I don't like Woodpeckers, I just can afford the iGaging.
I doubt Woodpeckers is scared of anyone.