This just in: World supply of rope dangerously low. Super steel turbo fucking unleashed to the max jeopardizing all rope. Could this be the extinction level event we hoped would never happen?
Great video. There were highs and lows... danger, suspense... and in a twist at the end, victory! Victory to expensive, elitist, snobbish super steels! Death to the every-man, under dog, peasant steels! Just my kind of story.
You cut yourself and continued to test a crazy steel like M390 then proceeded to sharpen it and test it to 810 passes. Its awesomeness like that that makes me wish I could subscribe twice.
Pioneering for Pete, but he is just re-discovering something that has been well-studied for decades now. Just wait until he re-discovers the power of compound/convex bevels so he can optimize both edge retention *and* edge strength.
There is absolutely no doubt about that. However, have you ever been on any knife forums and seen all the pictures in threads titled, "I lent my knife to a friend and..." ??? Now remember that is *most* knife users.
Thanks Pete! I was surprised at myself, as to how giddy I turned, after reading the title of this video. 😊 Thank you much, for taking this path in your videos. Well done.
I'm loving these crazy angle tests you are doing. Looking forward to more. I personally wouldn't edc M390 at that angle. I'm plenty happy with mine at 18 dps.
I know you can't make the test too complicated, but I'd bet dimes to doughnuts a quick hone on a good butcher's steel every 50 passes or so would triple ( at least) the working edge life of all the knife steels. I suspect the improvement will be greater on the "lesser" knife steels ( 440c, 4116, 14c28n. Ect.). At least that is what I have experienced, but only anecdotally. On another note. ....Am I the only one addicted to these videos like they were the OJ trial?
204p has smidge less tungsten. Amd 20cv has even less. I would say 20cv on thin edges has maybe 20-30% less edge toughness . only with thin grinds. HT depending also
Day after your winter solstice (and our summer's longest day) comes a video about my one of my favorite steels. You created an exclamation point on your ongoing series about edge retention across various steel and geometry. Seems fair to generalize: double for the trouble! Each blade has an optimum angle for the material to be cut. Im chasing thin behind the edge lately. Makes me think of engineers dialing in D2 cutters and shapers, driven by our huge surplus hydroelectric power that came online shortly before the emperor and fascists raised their ugly!
Great video. I did notice that the way you are using the Tormek that the edge angle towards the tip is wider than the rest of the blade which is the end you are using. If you arc the knife instead of staying square to the stone face the angle will be more consistent over the length of the blade.
> Pete, this is great stuff! Much appreciated! Basically, it is starting to sound like pretty much all factory edge angles are way too conservative (Big Brown Bear talks about this issue, I think). > I'd hazard a guess that if your burr was heavy on the first sharpen, it might have caused an issue with the apex when it was removed. > 800 cuts or 550 cuts versus say 100-ish cuts for 8Cr13MoV, etc.... You spent more time sharpening, but was it 8x or 5.5x more? > Prediction: Z-Hunter at 26deg inclusive... onne, twwwo, threeeee.... Huh. Hmmm. Yeah, two it is. Yeah, it's rolled. It's totally eff'n destroyed. Well, there you have it then, two cuts for the Z-Hunter. > Blade battle suggestion: sharpened cat food tin lid vs Z-Hunter.
There is a new maximum. I would like to see you become acquainted with Ultra Instinct Goku. Maybe get him a spot in the intro, as well. Excellent video. I love the stuff you've been up to lately.
This is test shows the power of how higher hardnesses are capable of lower angles. M390 is also just an excellent small carbide steel that dukes it out at the highest levels.
M390 is not a small carbide steel. Vanadium carbides are huge compared to the width of a sharpened edge. You want a small carbide steel, then think Aeb-l, lc200n, Nitro V and alike.
I mean that relatively compared to other supersteels. But yeah you're right all those are indeed finer but none of them are a traditional super steel either.
A well heat treated D2 is an excellent steel. Even 440C I can squeeze hRC 58-59 with good toughness. I looked up the heat treat on Vanax steel and it isn't complicated like some steels are. O1 tool steel is an excellent steel with a good working edge at hRC 60. It just comes down to the expense of the steel and its heat treat. 440C kind of got a bad rap because of poor heat treat in the 90s, plus companies using 4034 or 410 C with a non-optimal HT. The super steels have either high carbon and/or high nitrogen with chromium, vanadium and tungsten. Vanadium makes harder carbide than tungsten does. It's why adding 0.8 vanadium to D2 makes it hold an edge very well, plus the chrome carbides and they're all harder than iron carbide.
*Holy shit!* M390, one steel to rule them all. I'm amazed you didn't have edge turning, or, folding with that steep of an angle. For EDC usage, you shouldn't have to resharpen that knife again till after The Apocalypse! XD
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors have you tried the powder steels at lower angles will the s30v and s35vn become even more super can they be unleashed or are they at their optimum angle for sharpness and edge retention? This could be interesting!
Too early to tell, but perhaps the harder steels are seeing less improvement with steeper angles. Will see what evolves as you keep going. Great work as usual.
Could be a carbide tear out or metal fatique caused by to big burr formation etc that did the different results. Could you test it by thinning it at say 10/10 per side then a microbevel only one or two passes per side at 16/16 would maybe help with carbide tear out and instead of shearing the burr of you cut it of at the apex making a new cleaner apex. And could you test the lionsteel m4 in m390 the samme way? I have and love that blade ☺️ Love your channel mate
Well done! Great to see the correlation continue. Is it a coincidence you weren’t wearing the burr bird shirt and you had a stubborn burr? Lawman at 12 degrees will do 800.
You should do 18, 15, and 12 degrees per side on the same knife. If you do three steels (pick safe bets for low, medium, and high edge retention) you can get a better idea of the mathematical relationship. It's a lot of work, but it is more or less the definitive experiment.
LOL mate, do you think that knife was deadly sharp??? At last someone acknowledges that the angle of cutting bevel plays a big role in edge retention dependent upon the alloy. Great vid as always!
Buck knives come from the factory At 12.5 per side 420hc @58 HRC and a toothy grind, the super steels should be able to pull better performance with a similar setup!!
I have mine 390M Ultratech at 22°and its ceazy sharp . And i have Osborn S30V steal at 20° (per sight) and i doll the knife in 30 days from knife factory sharpening. And M390 is like first daj its unbeliveble sharp.
This is just getting ridiculous. I guess you'll be sticking to ergonomic knives for this, as we don't want you to get hurt :) These extreme videos are great!
I am willing to bet ya anything that if you were to do a combo edge where you take it to 12deg and then strop a secondary edge at say 14 or 15 that it would cut much much longer because then you have very thin behind the edge and also still a steep enough grind to make it cut forever!
No one is going to see this, but it's possible the carbides aren't be able to be supported and are tearing out. A micro bevel could potentially increase the edge retention without seeing a dramatic effect on cutting performance.
Probably been asked a million times before, but how fragile is the edge of M390 when sharpened down to 11.5 degrees? What happens if you use it to do some light cutting and chopping on wood? Would it chip to pieces?
Hey M8, what are your thoughts on this new sharpness testing device(Cutlerylover and Bird& Frankie have done vids on them) and will you be incorporating one into your rope cuts instead of relying on paper cuts to check how well the steel faired after the rope cuts?
So redusing the angle increases the edge retention? Ive seen a lot of your videos and i dont know why you sharpen the knives with that angles. I sharpen my knives with 20 degre
Daniel Marañon yes, with a smaller angle the knife passes through material easier. It’s like a wedge. Depending on steel though, some steel can’t take lower angles without damage to the edge.
Steel Will Modus. It's listed as discontinued on the Steel Will website though. If you can't find the Modus for sale anywhere then the Kershaw Link looks like it has a similar blade shape also with M390 steel. The Link is currently on sale at around 70 something dollars so, that is not a bad price for the type of steel you're going to get. However, the Kershaw is an assisted flipper and some people just don't like that feature.
AEB-L at 62 HRC is still my superstar steel. M390 was a good choice to champion the supersteels but I dare you to test S30V or CTSXHP or anything that's not ZDP-189,M390, or LC200N. Then we'll see who wins out. For sure though I don't think you've seen the all-star of the cheap steels.
Looking back on this video do you think there is something to what supersteel Steve says about the factory edge being weekend from grinding and treatment and that once you sharpen so much of that out the steel gets stronger?
At what point do you start to get problems with the size of the carbides in the steel? I would love to know if someone has any ideas about that. There also has to be a point at which the amount of stuff you can cut doesn't weigh up to the loss of toughness. I don't really have any great ideas about how to test that either to be honest.
Try some Aeb-l at 61-62 hrc, ground 5-10 thou behind the edge and under 10 degrees per side. Aeb-l has much higher edge stability than high carbide steels like m390 or s30v. 440c is high carbide steel compared to Aeb-l.
Very interesting buddy 🙂 👍 I suppose different steels are like different phones lol everyone wants the newest but carnt afford it they all do the same job but some better than others like most things in life 💪
I am thinking of getting a Tormek but I am not sure how it handles a recurve on a pocket knife like a blur or more curved. That is the only thing holding me back
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 87 วันนี้!! คู่เอก "ก้องชัย vs โชคปรีชา"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6e7HVnekw/mqdefault.jpg)
This just in: World supply of rope dangerously low. Super steel turbo fucking unleashed to the max jeopardizing all rope. Could this be the extinction level event we hoped would never happen?
Great video. There were highs and lows... danger, suspense... and in a twist at the end, victory! Victory to expensive, elitist, snobbish super steels! Death to the every-man, under dog, peasant steels! Just my kind of story.
😎🤘🏻
Now you'll need a magnified look at the edge before and after!
You cut yourself and continued to test a crazy steel like M390 then proceeded to sharpen it and test it to 810 passes.
Its awesomeness like that that makes me wish I could subscribe twice.
Nah that's just red paint
Pioneering stuff Pete. A true astronaut of the knife and knife steel universe.
Pioneering for Pete, but he is just re-discovering something that has been well-studied for decades now. Just wait until he re-discovers the power of compound/convex bevels so he can optimize both edge retention *and* edge strength.
Maybe so but it appears that the makers could improve performance of their knives without badly sacrificing the ruggedness/durability of the edge.
There is absolutely no doubt about that. However, have you ever been on any knife forums and seen all the pictures in threads titled, "I lent my knife to a friend and..." ??? Now remember that is *most* knife users.
Absolutely outstanding sir. Even 4 years later this test still kicks ass.
You’re a fair dinkum Aussie legend 👍👍👍
First Dragonforce, then Slayer? Good stuff!
I always appreciate your videos. Great to see you doing the things I ponder on my own. Good to have answers with entertainment.
Thanks Cedric for all the informative videos. Today I finally decided to buy a Steelwill Cutjack in m390 from watching your videos :)
You are the MVKP!
Most Valuable Knife Person
Thanks Pete
That was a legendary journey! This belongs in the Knife Bro Science Hall of Fame! Cheers!
Thanks Pete!
I was surprised at myself, as to how giddy I turned, after reading the title of this video.
😊
Thank you much, for taking this path in your videos. Well done.
Yay for backyard science! All things considered, your use of the scientific method is very good.
I'm loving these crazy angle tests you are doing. Looking forward to more. I personally wouldn't edc M390 at that angle. I'm plenty happy with mine at 18 dps.
As a fellow Astrayan, thank you for your sacrifice. You made an excellent video.
You sir, are the man. Thank you for your content!
Just when I thought the test was over...you drag me back in! 👌
Psst...is that slayer I hear? 👂
These unleashed series are the best!!!
Oh yes, there will be blood! Hardcore there Pete. Oh and you might consider getting a diamond dressing tool for your wheels.
Love m390! Can’t wait to get my hands on some
Jeremy Sharpe just don't buy anymore of my Kershaw Links... I want a second one and they sold out so fast last time they were on Bladehq.
i only have 23 in m390 its simply not enough
I know you can't make the test too complicated, but I'd bet dimes to doughnuts a quick hone on a good butcher's steel every 50 passes or so would triple ( at least) the working edge life of all the knife steels. I suspect the improvement will be greater on the "lesser" knife steels ( 440c, 4116, 14c28n. Ect.). At least that is what I have experienced, but only anecdotally.
On another note. ....Am I the only one addicted to these videos like they were the OJ trial?
OspreyBravo18 I was waiting to pull the trigger on one of those and didn’t get one😭
204p has smidge less tungsten. Amd 20cv has even less. I would say 20cv on thin edges has maybe 20-30% less edge toughness . only with thin grinds. HT depending also
have you ever thought of recycling the rope? Peats tinda / fire starter just add some wax you could maybe sell it.or as a giveaway to your patrons
Fantastic. Thanks for all you do for us knife nerds - really appreciate it. Cheers!
A dedicated man. Good job.
You unleashed it so much it's gone plaid.
Day after your winter solstice (and our summer's longest day) comes a video about my one of my favorite steels. You created an exclamation point on your ongoing series about edge retention across various steel and geometry. Seems fair to generalize: double for the trouble! Each blade has an optimum angle for the material to be cut. Im chasing thin behind the edge lately. Makes me think of engineers dialing in D2 cutters and shapers, driven by our huge surplus hydroelectric power that came online shortly before the emperor and fascists raised their ugly!
The more Data point you give me, the more confused it get. Keep it up
Outstanding stuff! This definitely has me thinking differently about my knives and my sharpening habits.
What the heck? From 550 to 810... Great work. Hope you keep going so we can see what trend emerges on edge retention and angles.
Holy crap, those results were incredible. Your curiosity is going to destroy your hands. (and a couple of knives!)
Great video. I did notice that the way you are using the Tormek that the edge angle towards the tip is wider than the rest of the blade which is the end you are using. If you arc the knife instead of staying square to the stone face the angle will be more consistent over the length of the blade.
Another great video! Thanks for your time and effort in making these videos... Keep it up...
TO THE MAX!!!!!! :)
> Pete, this is great stuff! Much appreciated! Basically, it is starting to sound like pretty much all factory edge angles are way too conservative (Big Brown Bear talks about this issue, I think).
> I'd hazard a guess that if your burr was heavy on the first sharpen, it might have caused an issue with the apex when it was removed.
> 800 cuts or 550 cuts versus say 100-ish cuts for 8Cr13MoV, etc.... You spent more time sharpening, but was it 8x or 5.5x more?
> Prediction: Z-Hunter at 26deg inclusive... onne, twwwo, threeeee.... Huh. Hmmm. Yeah, two it is. Yeah, it's rolled. It's totally eff'n destroyed. Well, there you have it then, two cuts for the Z-Hunter.
> Blade battle suggestion: sharpened cat food tin lid vs Z-Hunter.
Fascinating. I'd be curious to see how something like S30V does.
Holy cow! That's insane!
Now you have to do a toothy Microbevel!
Mmmm m390. Some good steel I tell yah hwat. Could you do some d2 or ctsxhp next? More of the middle ground or even the higonokami blue paper steel.
Zachary Martof D2 has latge carbides and won't handle super low angles very well.
The music reminded me of FFIX! Awesome video.
810 cuts , that's exactly how much an unleashed maxamet could last before failing your test , that's impressive!
I want to see the z-hunter explode:)))
Baton it!!!! Do it!!!!
Probably get lead poisoning or something.
Great stuff, Pete. Not so sure as to how to go about having an enchanted day however. Perhaps a video or series on that sometime, mate!
Next, rex121 unleashed to the max! Haha I'll see if I can make one to send to you to test to the MAX
the rex is currently off getting itself pulled down to 14°
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors better buy some icy hot, and Bengay for all that
Looking forward to that!
Ooh playing it safe at 14 degrees I see :P
Rex121 @ 11 degree might take (slice) his arm off.
Super Fuckin Turbo Edge!!!!!
Fuck yeah. Thanks for the blood sweat and tears my friend
There is a new maximum. I would like to see you become acquainted with Ultra Instinct Goku. Maybe get him a spot in the intro, as well. Excellent video. I love the stuff you've been up to lately.
Nice job .
This is test shows the power of how higher hardnesses are capable of lower angles. M390 is also just an excellent small carbide steel that dukes it out at the highest levels.
M390 is not a small carbide steel. Vanadium carbides are huge compared to the width of a sharpened edge. You want a small carbide steel, then think Aeb-l, lc200n, Nitro V and alike.
I mean that relatively compared to other supersteels. But yeah you're right all those are indeed finer but none of them are a traditional super steel either.
Never mind m390 your the flipping star.great effort mate. 👏👏👏 atb paddy☺👍🍀
Could you do the same thing with the Benchmade 940-1 please? I would really love to see when It could do with a super unleashed edge. Cheers!
Nice work. Great vids. Thank you.
You're doing God's work, good sir.
A well heat treated D2 is an excellent steel. Even 440C I can squeeze hRC 58-59 with good toughness. I looked up the heat treat on Vanax steel and it isn't complicated like some steels are. O1 tool steel is an excellent steel with a good working edge at hRC 60. It just comes down to the expense of the steel and its heat treat. 440C kind of got a bad rap because of poor heat treat in the 90s, plus companies using 4034 or 410 C with a non-optimal HT.
The super steels have either high carbon and/or high nitrogen with chromium, vanadium and tungsten. Vanadium makes harder carbide than tungsten does. It's why adding 0.8 vanadium to D2 makes it hold an edge very well, plus the chrome carbides and they're all harder than iron carbide.
Great and fun video!! Thanks bro!
*Holy shit!*
M390, one steel to rule them all. I'm amazed you didn't have edge turning, or, folding with that steep of an angle.
For EDC usage, you shouldn't have to resharpen that knife again till after The Apocalypse! XD
You thought you were going to super Saiyan 2 but you went ultra instinct
Cedric & Ada Gear and Outdoors have you tried the powder steels at lower angles will the s30v and s35vn become even more super can they be unleashed or are they at their optimum angle for sharpness and edge retention? This could be interesting!
Too early to tell, but perhaps the harder steels are seeing less improvement with steeper angles. Will see what evolves as you keep going. Great work as usual.
Came here to see blood, was not disappointed.
Could be a carbide tear out or metal fatique caused by to big burr formation etc that did the different results.
Could you test it by thinning it at say 10/10 per side then a microbevel only one or two passes per side at 16/16 would maybe help with carbide tear out and instead of shearing the burr of you cut it of at the apex making a new cleaner apex.
And could you test the lionsteel m4 in m390 the samme way?
I have and love that blade ☺️
Love your channel mate
Epic beast mode level!
Bleed for this knife life!
Well done! Great to see the correlation continue. Is it a coincidence you weren’t wearing the burr bird shirt and you had a stubborn burr?
Lawman at 12 degrees will do 800.
You should do 18, 15, and 12 degrees per side on the same knife. If you do three steels (pick safe bets for low, medium, and high edge retention) you can get a better idea of the mathematical relationship. It's a lot of work, but it is more or less the definitive experiment.
you are right, It would be a good show of how angles effect cutting. I intend on doing it until it fails on a knife
If like me you use a knife a couple times a week for opening packages mainly plastic or small cardboard.Does this steel hold it's edge for a lifetime?
My favorite video is the steel will
LOL mate, do you think that knife was deadly sharp??? At last someone acknowledges that the angle of cutting bevel plays a big role in edge retention dependent upon the alloy. Great vid as always!
Try lookup cliff stamp heroes good edge video
Do you know what Rockwell that m390 was treated to ?
Buck knives come from the factory At 12.5 per side 420hc @58 HRC and a toothy grind, the super steels should be able to pull better performance with a similar setup!!
One question: Who are the musicians playing on the background on minute 10:29 ? Thanks for such great videos!!
That sounds like Jeff Beck
regrinds are another way to increase performance. if can get your hands on a k390 spyderco urban, that's ground thinner then a dragonfly.
H1 unleashed to the max!
I have mine 390M Ultratech at 22°and its ceazy sharp . And i have Osborn S30V steal at 20° (per sight) and i doll the knife in 30 days from knife factory sharpening. And M390 is like first daj its unbeliveble sharp.
I really like M390. What do you think the max would be on a crucible steel?What in the world do you do with all that cut rope??
This is just getting ridiculous. I guess you'll be sticking to ergonomic knives for this, as we don't want you to get hurt :) These extreme videos are great!
I am willing to bet ya anything that if you were to do a combo edge where you take it to 12deg and then strop a secondary edge at say 14 or 15 that it would cut much much longer because then you have very thin behind the edge and also still a steep enough grind to make it cut forever!
Whats the make and model of that knife?
You should do AEBL 62 HRC at 10 degrees per side. See where that gets you :P
No one is going to see this, but it's possible the carbides aren't be able to be supported and are tearing out. A micro bevel could potentially increase the edge retention without seeing a dramatic effect on cutting performance.
Probably been asked a million times before, but how fragile is the edge of M390 when sharpened down to 11.5 degrees? What happens if you use it to do some light cutting and chopping on wood? Would it chip to pieces?
I wonder if an end grain cutting board would make a difference.
INSANE!!!!
Hey M8, what are your thoughts on this new sharpness testing device(Cutlerylover and Bird& Frankie have done vids on them) and will you be incorporating one into your rope cuts instead of relying on paper cuts to check how well the steel faired after the rope cuts?
Wow 550 then another 800 plus cuts! Your hands must be awful sore!
I was expecting it to go about 800 cuts with the 13 degree edge
So redusing the angle increases the edge retention? Ive seen a lot of your videos and i dont know why you sharpen the knives with that angles. I sharpen my knives with 20 degre
Daniel Marañon yes, with a smaller angle the knife passes through material easier. It’s like a wedge. Depending on steel though, some steel can’t take lower angles without damage to the edge.
Great vid! If you keep on tho your going to be anemic lol.Good job man!
What model steel will is this knife? I like the blade shape!
Steel Will Modus. It's listed as discontinued on the Steel Will website though. If you can't find the Modus for sale anywhere then the Kershaw Link looks like it has a similar blade shape also with M390 steel.
The Link is currently on sale at around 70 something dollars so, that is not a bad price for the type of steel you're going to get. However, the Kershaw is an assisted flipper and some people just don't like that feature.
U should make some micarta with all those rope shavings!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AEB-L at 62 HRC is still my superstar steel. M390 was a good choice to champion the supersteels but I dare you to test S30V or CTSXHP or anything that's not ZDP-189,M390, or LC200N. Then we'll see who wins out. For sure though I don't think you've seen the all-star of the cheap steels.
Looking back on this video do you think there is something to what supersteel Steve says about the factory edge being weekend from grinding and treatment and that once you sharpen so much of that out the steel gets stronger?
There is, but I sharpened this a lot, I would think I would have got it all!
What if you do a leashed to the minimum test where you put the edge at 30 degrees or so on each side.
At what point do you start to get problems with the size of the carbides in the steel? I would love to know if someone has any ideas about that. There also has to be a point at which the amount of stuff you can cut doesn't weigh up to the loss of toughness. I don't really have any great ideas about how to test that either to be honest.
I'm not sure you've actually found the optimal angle since you haven't taken it to the point where it fails.
possible, there would be a point where the edge performed worse as the angle ticked a little lower than it should
Try some Aeb-l at 61-62 hrc, ground 5-10 thou behind the edge and under 10 degrees per side. Aeb-l has much higher edge stability than high carbide steels like m390 or s30v. 440c is high carbide steel compared to Aeb-l.
What sharpening system is that?
Awesome
Very interesting buddy 🙂 👍 I suppose different steels are like different phones lol everyone wants the newest but carnt afford it they all do the same job but some better than others like most things in life 💪
Freaking insane. How many cutting boards will rex121 go through?
But did it cut the finger better?
I am thinking of getting a Tormek but I am not sure how it handles a recurve on a pocket knife like a blur or more curved. That is the only thing holding me back
When you find the perfect video