Unidentified Intonation Phenomenon on a Guitar & Bass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- An up-close analysis of a mysterious intonation issue on a guitar and on a bass. I dubbed it the Unidentified Intonation Phenomenon, or UIP.
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Fantastic video, instant subscription… Your measured, calm presentation and dry humour are also perfect for getting this style of information across… I am not a qualified luthier but have some experience doing pro bono setup (and guitar builds from parts) for musician friends, as I love the technical aspects of the instrument. Your channel will be a wonderful resource- many thanks! 👍
Awesome, thank you!
Whenever someone says they can't adjust their intonation - that their saddle can't move any further in the direction it needs to go - the first question is "have you fitted new strings recently?" Always fit new strings, and stretch them, before adjusting intonation, for precisely these reason.
Correct.
I have had this issue in the past both on guitar and bass. I have learned something new today. Thank's for the video!
You’re welcome.
Feel free to browse around the Guitar Quackery TH-cam library. I’m sure you will find other videos do you liking.
And please feel free to share with your friends. It helps grow the channel which in turn helps me publish more videos.
Thank you very much.
So the problem was that the kid playing the guitar wasn't playing hard enough to break the string when it should have failed. A few "Boomer Bends" and it would have snapped. I have seen Phil McNight videos were he has said that if you can't get the guitar to intonate, first thing is to change the strings. Great job with the demo.
I watch Phil‘s videos, too, and I think I even remember that he said that in one of his videos.
I guess you’re right, the kid must be playing lightly, but his hands probably sweat a lot.
I’ve also seen guitars with strings that have not been changed for 10 years, that looked almost new. When people have dry skin, and a light touch, they don’t wear out their strings, or frets, quite as quickly.
In my teenage years I had quite corrosive sweat on my fingers. Strings would never last long because I couldn't stand the sound of the corroded strings.
Funny enough my starter electric guitar always had tuning issues. A better guitar solved this for me. I never sold the old one because it was cheap in the first place and I didn't have the heart to sell it to some beginner who would have the same issues with it.
Recently we needed a backup guitar that can stay at the rehearsal room. I thought about buying a cheap one but decided to have a look at my starter guitar. Now with a bit more knowledge about guitars I was able to identify and solve the issue. The nut was too high resulting in a slightly too high pitch because the strings had to be pressed down further to contact the frets.
Today I am still very surprised by the tuning stability and correct intonation of this very cheap guitar.
@@DoSeOst Thank you for sharing this personal story.
What make and model was the old guitar?
@@GuitarQuackery Just a no name black and white strat copy. There may be a lable on it but I don't remember. I have seen new guitars for around 100 bucks that were built better than this thing.
The guitar I bought next is an Ibanez S470OL in '94 and it's still my main guitar next to an actual Fender Strat. 😁
@@DoSeOst Sometimes those, no-name, department-store guitars have the potential to become good guitars, but usually with a lot of work.
I actually kind of like working on those kinds of guitars, when there’s time and budget.
As with any product made of wood, the most important part of the product is the selection of wood. If the neck has good woodgrain, it can be rebuilt and drastically improved. That’s especially the case when the guitar is a couple of decades old, which means that the wood is Aged.
Super interesting :) So nice to see these kind of things, the microscope and the explanations. Super cook video. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it. I do you the microscope a lot, LOL. In fact I use it on every guitar that goes on the bench.
I've just come across this channel. It's interesting to see someone taking an in-depth look at phenomena affecting guitars. OK, here's one that I've noticed with electric guitars, but I don't think it's commonly known: I call it "the dead G-string phenomenon". Specifically, it's notes that decay far too quickly around the twelfth fret, affecting only the G string. It seems more pronounced on Gibson scale length guitars than on Fenders. How to test: play "G" on string 2 fret 8, string 3 fret 12, and string 4 fret 17. Let each one decay naturally, and note how long they take to die down. Which one decays quickest? It'll be the G string. On _some_ guitars, this decay is so quick that the guitar is unusable. I've never found a way to solve this, so maybe Mr Guitar Quackery could look into it, to identify why this happens, and come up with a solution.
I think you came up with a good name for this phenomenon.
The G string is very stiff, because it has a large diameter. The larger the diameter is, the shorter the string is, the stiffer it will be. And the stiffer the string, the shortest sustain.
Then there's also inharmonicity. The greater the degree of inharmonicity, the shorter the sustain, because the frequencies are dampening each other. And that goes back to the stiffness. The stiffer the string, the more it produces partials that are inharmonic (i.e. out of tune with the fundamental and with each other).
Have you ever tried a wound G string on an electric guitar? A wound G string has less inharmonicity, because it is basically a very thin string (the diameter of the core) with a winding around it, to add weight, so that it can vibrate at a lower frequency.
A wound G string has some other disadvantages and is not a recommended solution for all players, but it should ring out longer.
@@GuitarQuackery Thank you. That's an interesting comment. I'm not likely to try a wound G string, because I'm a boomer, and therefore have to bend that string. In any case, some guitars don't exhibit this trait, so I think there must be something in their construction, or the way the neck and body vibrate, that damps the G string at the twelfth fret. The worst one I ever experienced was an Ibanez Artcore AR325, but I've found it with other guitars too. When I try a guitar in a store, it's the first thing I check, and if the G string's dead, I reject the guitar. It would be interesting to hear from people who've read this post and immediately tested their guitars.
Thanks for making this video. I wish I knew that strings can have this issue because there was a time back a few years ago where my go to strings ( Rotosound) ) had the internation issue like you mentioned on the G string. I was ablle to get the store to replace them 2 times having the same issue and the store called someone about this and they confirmed they had an issue. The never told me what the issue was and it seems this could have been it.
Anyway, Rotosound sent me an extra set for free. Thing is, Bass strings stay on for at least a year if you gig a lot. So I finaly used the set they sent and they worked.
I always wondered what what happening, thanks for showing us.
Glad to hear this video offered some clarifications to the issues you were experiencing.
Guy came straight from air traffic control.
LOL… or maybe, I came from UFO (a.k.a. UAP) traffic control. Nowadays, our tax money is funding an entire UAP department at the Pentagon. They all have those fancy headsets there.
Great vid! Never occurred to me, but now I now! Thanks!🤝🏼
I’m really glad you like it and I’m glad a lot of people are watching this video.
I’ve been preparing for this video for many years and now it’s finally out.
In the past when I noticed something was off with the internation, I just cut the strings off worked on the guitar and problem was resolved.
One time, I actually figured out that the string had a very thin section, but I still cut the string off, threw it away and worked on the guitar. Then I realized I should have made a video, or saved the string for a future video.
One day, the wise old man put his bass on my work bench. I saved the faulty string (the one featured in this video).
That was a couple of years ago.
All this time, I was hoping someone would show up with a guitar, with a plain string of varying thickness.
About three weeks ago, the kids showed up with his dad, with the guitar you seen this video.
I jumped on the opportunity to record the video.
I just had this happen to me since last week when I changed my strings. Was definitely a head scratcher! Know I now. Thank you!
I’ve seen it happen on a few customers’ guitars, so for quite some time, I’ve known what to look for, when the intonation is so drastically off.
One thing I do not know is, how gradual is the process.
Do you happen to have any recollection of how long it took for the intonation on your guitar to go out of whack?
Nice catch!
Yup. Last time I saw a guitar like this one, was two or three years ago. I’ve been waiting all this time for one to show up on my bench so I can make this video.
I’m estimating that this phenomenon happens on 1 in 10,000 guitars, or less. With this statistic, it is very unlikely, for the average person, who is not a full-time technician, to ever encounter this in person.
I didn't expect that, there is UIP after all! Thanks for that helpful video!!!
There definitely are UIPs. And unlike the usual, blurry image UAP or UFO videos, this video is in-focus and high-rez.
Thanks for dropping by.
Fantastic... I've had this problem with brand new defective strings... changed the whole set, problem gone.
Where are you experiencing this issue with wound strings or plain strings? Thanks.
@@GuitarQuackery Wound strings...Ernie Ball's cobalt...low E and A.
Ah.. Mr Quakery.. very glad you've made it back... was a little worried you'd left the channel due to busy life expectancy etc...Nice to see you back...been playing for over 30 years and NEVER worn a string so thin that the intonation went ...😂
Ancient Chinese proverb s says a worn string is as much use as a fish without a bicycle.....
I like the proverb, LOL.
Yes, I was "away" for a bit. These video productions turn any 1 hour job into 12 hours. I had to focus on completing some repair orders at the shop before customers abandon me.
It's good to see you back and of course your customers must come first, the bills must be paid..
@@operasinger168 Absolutely. If bills are not payed, the shop will go out of biz. If the shop goes out of biz, there won't be any videos. Balance is crucial, to keep the show going.
Just goes to show the importance of quality strings and changing them often. Amazing informative video. Thanks!
Sometimes people bring guitars with ancient strings and they ask me to try to save them. LOL. I do explain that this is not how it's done. I mostly only sell D'Addario strings at my shop. I will occasionally supply other brands, if people insist.
What brand(s) do you use?
Thanks for dropping by.
@@GuitarQuackery Mostly I've settled on Ernie Balls in various guages - I have 7's on my EXP, Coated 8's on my PRS (used to be 10's) and am looking at putting 7's or 8's on the partscaster I'm currently building. I try to use coated where possible, 'cos I live in the Azores and the humidiy is high averaging 70%.... an electonics killer LOL. Strings are pretty cheap if your into your guitar and I can't understand why people try to skimp on them..... well, yes, if your really broke - but then if you are using a luthier or guitar techs services you are not really really broke! No complaints ever with the Ernie Balls - even the 7's are rugged enough for some serious trem action (Floyd on the EXP). Hold tuning and intonation well and give a consistent tone accross the strings.
@@stevekirkby6570 Sometimes I like to point out to my customers that guitar strings are constantly being touched by bare fingers, unlike piano strings, which are internal. I find it that this detail helps them realize that guitar strings should be changed periodically.
Great video.
Thanks for the visit.
Intonation is an important issue, neat looking into the problem!
That guitar was definitely unplayable. So was the bass.
That was insane, I've never seen that before. Thank you.
By the way, I always run out of room when I try to intonate the sixth string on my strat, even with new strings.
The 6th string compensation on a Strat (or even Tele) is a typical problem. Sometimes we even have to remove that spring, to dial-in the position of the saddle all the way back.
I believe there are multiple reasons for that.
We are dealing with a vintage design that hasn't changed much. People want "vintage spec" without understanding that it means they'll end up with parts that were never perfected. Basically, the bridge plate should be a bit longer.
The bridges are mounted in the wrong place. Martin guitars from the 1970s had this problem, too.
And lastly, there's a recent discovery that I explained in the Player Series Strat Review video th-cam.com/video/4SASyR0-4B0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=HM8a-Xmn5_U2BXj0 when I attempted to use the Music Nomad 25.5" Fret Shield amzn.to/3v2yRVJ to polish the frets.
*The Amazon link is an affiliate link, which means that I get a small commission if you purchase through that link, without any extra cost to you.
This is why I stick to only two brands of strings, Ernie Ball and D'Addario. I know people who have that problem with other brands and I always tell them to try those brands.
That’s good advice. When it comes to defective strings, bad brands will produced bad strings.
But any string, regardless of brand and quality, will eventually wear down. The second law of the thermodynamics says that.
The old strings that were on the guitar, where D’Addario XS. The exact same make and model, in fact, that I replaced them with. They were just too old.
@@GuitarQuackery Good point. I don't play out that much anymore but when I did I changed strings ever week. I figured one practice, 3-4 hours, 2 gigs, 3-45 minute sets then home practice Monday and Tuesday. Change strings and repeat. That way I never had the problen with tuning and intonation.
@@jimvandemoter6961 I remember the good old days when I also used to change strings every week.
Thanks, buddy.
what program do you use to put the background ?
do you need a green screen?
I don't have that problem with intonation, but now I will be ready if it happens Thanks
I have used different methods to put the background on my talking head video recordings.
At the moment I just record with the green background, and then key-in my logo in Final Cut Pro.
The actual green background that I use is this one…
amzn.to/4c4FB64
this is in fact, the third chroma key panel that I bought. And it is the one that worked out best. it is quite large, but it works really well. I would not recommend the narrower ones, unless you are really limited with space.
The link I provided, is an Amazon affiliate link. It means that I do get a small commission from the link, at no extra cost to anyone using the link to buy the product.
Hope this helps.
Quack you need to put out more content . Love your videos . Learning so much from your channel . Do you have a personal preference for electric guitar strings ? And there is an old Chinese proverb . You can’t polish a turd . 😅
Seems like these political campaigns are doing a pretty good job of it 😃
I love the proverb.
My favorite strings are D’Addario. I usually use EXL110. On my Gibson electric guitars. I use 11 gauge on my E335 guitars.
I’ve been thinking of putting flat wounds, on one of my many Les Paul guitars.
Yeah, I’m trying to put out more content. It is very time-consuming. My content is edited, and takes a very long time to put together. I’ll try to do it more frequently.
Thanks.
Thanks
Thank you very much for your Super Thanks. It all goes towards making future videos.
Shocking! That high E string seems like it came from the factory that way or was worn down by acid or abraded with sandpaper or, in my case, with unwashed fingers after concrete finishing. Never seen intonation this radical, but I guess there are some caustic people around.
I’ve seen this phenomenon a few times on the workbench. As a repair tech, I get to see a wide range of issues.
Wondering if the strings could be fake, there are loads of them being sold particularly Ebay/Amazon etc. Good vid !!
Those were definitely genuine D’Addario XS strings.
XS strings are coated. However, this kid plays all the time every single day. Coating will not last forever, and once the coating is rubbed off, the acids from the fingers will start etching into the metal.
Second law of thermodynamics - nothing last forever.
I like the name of this channel, makes me feel at home lol
LOL
I'm glad a video of yours popped up, TH-cam algorithm is very random
Glad to have you on board.
Please feel free to recommend the channel to your friends, so they don’t have to rely on the unreliable algorithm.
Thanks.
I have been a Luthier for over 4 decades, and I can't count how many times people have asked me to do setups, or needing the kind of work that requires one to use the old strings, and it's not like It doesn't clearly state on my website and in the service agreement I give them ahead of doing any work, that new strings are a must, and why they are where it also states that setups are to the exact strings and tuning they will use the instrument for.
If you are going to pay $60+ for repairs and setups, then the price of strings is no big deal. I also make my customers supply the strings, so I don't have to stock the many brands, models, and gauges, and they get strings they like and prefer (I don't do retail sales, just repair and custom work). If I find NOS, bad looking strings, I won't use them.
I can't believe so many just slap on whatever they have in the shop, setup the instrument only for it's owner to throw on an entirely different set with different tensions, and throw off the setup! Despite all warnings I have had a few try to get me to rework "A bad setup" (I have a good and written warranty), only to find they changed to a whole different set of strings, or drop tuned the instrument.
If whoever you ask to work on your instrument doesn't ask what strings you want, go somewhere else! If they do, but don't have your preferred brand, model, and gauge set, then supply them, and make sure they are fresh! If older and not in sealed bags (Most are now) inspect them closely!
Also: Machines can have hiccups, and if you change strings, and only one of the wound strings buzzes all over the place, and the old ones didn't, then it's very likely the winding is either broken somewhere or just not tight enough. It's only the core of the string that produces the notes, the only function windings have is to tame the movement of more massive cores so they don't vibrate so far they fret out, and if too lose or interrupted the winding can't do its job.
Now "shut up and play your guitar" -FZ
I personally prefer when people buy strings at my shop. I actually have bad experiences when people supply their own strings. I found it a better policy, for me, to just sell a pack of strings with my services.
Basically, if there’s anything wrong with any of the strings, or if I accidentally break a string, it is a major inconvenience if I’m using an odd pack that the customer supplied.
But if I have a problem with any of the strings from the fact that I’m selling, I just open another pack.
@@GuitarQuackerySo you stock over 20 brands, and their many models and gauges? If you sell stuff retail, it's fine, and you can handle the loss of ending up sitting on "the old version" whenever something new comes along, as many have when "Elixir's" came out, D'Adario started the XL line..., and again if you use one set, and the customer doesn't like them and replaces them, then you may be the one they blame if their action changes, frets start buzzing... Also: As a retailer you should be able to get the most likely to break gauges like high E's and B's in packs of 5 to 12... separately.
I didn't mention that if I am to do extensive work where the strings come off and on a few times, I ask to bring 2 sets just in case one breaks, and rarely break any; I add quite a bit more windings on the tuners at first, and then when all the work is done, I loosen them, pull more through the tuner hole, and wind them back on with fewer windings, as the most likely place they will break is right where they come out of the hole and kink, and in doing so even if one breaks, I usually have enough length left to still use them, no problem. Also, I always check, and if needed de-burr and polish out Tune-O-Matic and similar bridge saddles, as well as the holes of older tuners, where the strings cause burrs and sharp edges from wear, as those are common points of failure.
I did say I make it clear they bring new strings. I can also pick some up at a well known local chain retailer if need be, as they do generate plenty of business for me in fixing their mess ups!
@@Bob-of-Zoid I like your tech tip on overwinding the strings, to do the preliminary work.
As it turns out, I also often use a sacrificial set of strings for some jobs. For example, if I have to cut a new nut. But I just use a new pack of EXL110 (or whatever will match the gauge of the final pack).
I like to do as much preliminary work as possible, using the existing strings, unless they are really bad.
In terms of stocking strings... I only stock D'Addario and that's what I usually convince people to buy. I order directly from D'Addario. As long as my orders are $350+ shipping is free and I buy at bulk prices. I do not buy individual packs. I either buy the 3-packs or the 25-pack bulk boxes. But I sell them as individual packs on the actual guitars.
I do sometimes have to buy individual strings, if I broke some during my work. But I don't buy those in advance. I just replenish as needed.
Sometimes there are specialized strings that customers either have to supply or I need to pick up locally (7-string packs, 8-string packs, flat wounds, special gauges, etc...)
Hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackeryYep, I too use the original or saved strings sometimes until I Get to the fine tweaking. I also prefer D'Adarios, they seam to inspect them very well, and there's rarely any issues, but talking people into them doesn't feel right, I tell them why I prefer them for sure, but leave it up to them to decide, no pressure.
@@Bob-of-Zoid I've had the pleasure of visiting the D'Addario factory. I have seen with my own eyes how they constantly inspect the wires.
They do not buy spools of wire. They pull their own wire, of different gauges, with their own well-maintained machines. They change the dies regularly and they have amazing computerized machines to wind the wound strings. It is amazing quality and attention to details.
I am not sure about other manufacturers, but I do know for sure that D'Addario it top of the line quality.
Great episode!!
Thanks,
Although, apparently, 1 of 12 people did not think so, as I already got one thumbs down in the first hour. I wish people would elaborate a bit, though.
Or maybe it was one of those guys that started blushing when I was talking about the physiological No 3, LOL.
Dude, i love your channel! Can you tell me why my Strat G String is warbbling, even if i drop the three pickups, put new strings, set intonation, nut height, string trees, tuners, saddles, clean and lube the nut, muffle the bridge springs, screws and all kind of that stuff ... this problem is driving me nuts !!! Help me please ! My strings are authentic D'Addario XL 0.10-0.46 Cheers from Viamao City 👊😃🎸🇧🇷
Hi, friend, from Viamao City. And welcome.
Let's talk about that string. Did you mean warbling (like changing pitch) or wobbling (like appearing to move from side to side)?
@@GuitarQuackery Man, thank you soooo much, for your reply, and excuse me for my sloppy english btw. Yes, the issue is a kind of bizare vibration (like a wave). Starts at the 5th fret on a Strat style guitar. The intonation was made by myself, hit the 3rd string then press it from the 5th fret the oscilation starts. ( half step down tunning, all the six strings... ) . I've notice this issue when i bought the guitar with used strings, then i put new strings, change the six saddles (stainless steel), new tuners, etc. So the problem keeps there! Well, did i miss something or have made some wrong? Thanks a lot, your vids are great!!!!!! Cheers from Viamao City 👊😃🎸🇧🇷
@@GuitarQuackery Some months ago, i've watch a video about a new Fender Strat (FR Tremolo version) with same problem. But no answers about the reason behind the oscilating string. Thank you!
@@eliasfigueroa8791 If I understand correctly, it is oscillating visually, correct?
If that's the case, then it is possible that your eyes are seeing a strobe effect. CFL lights as well as LED lights are actually not constantly lit. They flicker. Which means they turn on and off at a high frequency. So, the flickering of the lights will manifest itself with objects vibrating at certain frequencies. You can see the same effect when they balance car tires or when they tun on the strobe light at a night club dance floor.
If that's what it is, you have nothing to worry about. And if you take the guitar outdoor the oscillation goes away (because the sunlight does not flicker).
Hope this helps.
Hi folk ! Actually, is a oscilation on the sound of the G stfing. Pressing from the 5th fret towards the end of neck, the notes starts to warbling, it's horrible. It's like a chorus/tremolo effect, although i have lower the three pickups and etc. still sounding horrible, only the G string. Thank you so much for your tips, but i'm still struggling on that bizarre phenomenom. Cheers from Viamão City 👊😃🎸🇧🇷
Interesting👍👍
Glad you think so!
Interesting never thought that strings would have a different diameter along its length
my be it has been stretched when new to help keeping it in tune.
I was thinking it might have some thing to do with the nut not having been cut properly.
It was definitely the inconsistent diameter of the strings in this case. Thanks for dropping by and feel free to check out some other videos.
I have also found that strings made from chinesium are not drawn properly. Loose windings can cause many issues.
I actually have some strings with loose windings that I am saving for another video.
FYI, Martin winds their own strings and those windings come loos all the time. Like the binding on Martin guitars.
- Was struggling with intonation issues on my guitar
- Watch this video
- Guy proceeds to pick up the exact Jackson guitar that I own
- Me wtf
Did I understand correctly, that the guitar in this video is the exact same Jackson model, with the exact same intonation issue?
What a coincidence.
I have 2 acoustics that sound like someone's hitting a steel pipe when you're heavy strumming !..any input ?
Without seeing the guitar I don't think anyone can know.
@@GuitarQuackery thanks ..was hoping it was something common and easy to fix..just ordered a carbon fiber so will check that out.
You just solved my 12string problem
Well, glad to hear. Were the strings on your guitar really old?
Also, make sure to get your strings from official sites/places.
There are a lot of counterfeit strings out there. And the manufacturing process with them is poor (and unchecked).
Very good point.
Which string brand do you use, BTW?
@@GuitarQuackery For electric:
Ernie Ball regular slinky and Elixir Nanoweb strings (10 gauge strings) :)
@@Moodymongul Thank you for answering this.
Ernie Ball are probably the same quality as D'Addario. One reason why I prefer D'Addario is the packaging. I open so many packs of strings, I simply don't have the patience for the individually wrapped strings.
Elixir as a brand is just a division of a much bigger company, LW Gore. They do not make the actual strings - they just coat strings that are made for them, by a string company, most likely D'Addario (although I cannot say for sure).
Most Elixir users want Elixirs because they want coated strings. What many don't realize is that only the wound strings are coated. If you open a pack of Elixirs you can see that the individual packs of wound strings say that those are coated, but the individual packs of plain strings do not mention coating. Those are in fact not coated.
By comparison, D'Addario TX and XS strings are coated throughout, including the plain strings. However, in the case of XS strings the coating on the plain strings is not the same type of coating that is on the wound strings.
@@GuitarQuackery fyi - the first generation of Elixir strings didn't have any coatings on the plain strings to protect them :) So the treble strings went dull (at a normal rate) while the wound strings (at first 'polyweb' - a thicker coating than the later nanoweb strings) remained bright.
However, after a year or so. Elixir updated the plain strings to include a good 'anti-rust' system. In fact, the nanoweb wears off before i get any 'dulling tone' issues with the treble strings now.
On a side note, for me, i find the Slinkies have a less 'tight/tense' feel. Compared to Elixir (comparing the same string gauge).
Peace.
Crap strings on the market is one of the biggest issues we face as guitarists.... Ive had maxima 24k (now optima) strings on guitars that have last numerous gigs....on some guitars I only play now and then they have been on for over a year and still as good as new. D'Addario are great but then the market is flooded with chap nasty chinese copies that most wont know about. Nasty strings don't last a 4 hour gig and when they do they sound like crap.If you had of adjusted the saddle forward the problem would have been solved on that day... until the next re string. :) That bass just has cheap nasty strings end of story...NOT FACTORY DEFECT.... CRAP STRINGS. Great videos anyway.
Thank you for your comment and welcome to the channel.
What? D# on the 12th fret? I have never seen this in my whole life lol
I've seen this a few times. I guess as a repair tech I get the opportunity to see it all.
I once had a guitar that hadnt changed strings for 2 years, it was pretty rusty, there came to a point where the string itself could not hold tuning it just kept slipping not at the tuning post, but the pucker factor here is that the rust may have worn through the winding so much that it unraveled a tiny miniscule ammount of it causing mainly tuning issues, i rarely check my intonation nowadays because from that experience i learned to change them more often like say 3 months in
No way! I have never in 44 years of playing guitar seen anything like this! No matter how old the strings were, they never intonated this much out of tune! Bad intonation sure, but never an entire semitone! And I've come across some really bad guitars with really old strings on them! How is that even possible? But I've now seen it with my own eyes! I'm very confused!
I know how you feel. I first encountered this on the workbench, a few years ago.
I guess, since I work on about 2,000 guitars per year, I have the benefit of seeing many guitars in different conditions, handled by different people. People have different Ph - some have sweaty hands and others have dry skin. We're all different.
So, my only logical conclusion is that most people don't have the benefit of seeing the full spectrum, if we just look at our own guitars.
Hope this makes sense.
@@GuitarQuackery yep, makes total sense :) I'd like to know the physics behind it. Especially how it can be that the tuning deviates exactly one semitone.
I'm kind of trying to figure out the physics myself... I guess one way to think of this string is to think of a thinner string attaches to a thicker string, like in the second example, showing the defective bass string. So, the thinner string vibrates at one frequency, at a given tension, while the thicker string vibrates at another frequency, at the same tension. Or perhaps I am wrong??? I don't really know. But the tension is definitely the same for both ends of the same string.
I think many things in nature vibrate like that, as objects are not typically of a uniformed diameter.
I also think that the old gut strings must have had this issue, as I'm sure it was almost impossible to make a uniformly consistent string out of sheep intestines.
@@GuitarQuackery We need some scientists tackle this problem :) There are some really good YT-science channels, that come to mind, like Veritasium or Steve Mould :)
What puzzles me most, isn't the fact that the intonation is off, but that it's off by a semitone, in both cases. That can't be coincidence.
@@Patbwoy I think it is a bit of a coincidence, actually. I also don't think it's an exact semitone. The varied thickness actually produces a whole spectrum of overtones and these strings do not produce the "pure" tone that we expect to hear. In other words, it is impossible to tune the string to an exact pitch, as it produces too many overtones.
Short pianos also produce the same issue on the wound strings, as there is a part of the wound string, going over the nut and over the bridge, that is non-wound. That results in inharmonicity that is a very known issue that piano tuners always have to compensate for. The shorter the piano, the more they have to stretch tune. The longer the piano, the closer it is to actually being in tune. That's one of the reasons why a 9-foot grand sounds better than a baby grand, and why a spinet piano sounds really awful. And of course, an 11-foot grand piano sounds amazing.
I also plan to make a video on strings that have a lot of "cheese" buildup. Those strings are also throwing the intonation off.
I was gonna say "the core of the guitar string"! sometimes same gauge have different cores and intonation changes, but this is too much!!!
Correct. Wound strings of the same gauge can be made with different core diameters, and different wire gauges for the windings. The only function of the winding is to add mass to the vibrating string, which slows down the vibration. The thicker the core wire is, the more intonation issues arise, due to inharmonicity. I am planning to make a video about that, as well.
I was swapping between D'Addario and ernie ball 11-52s and found that onee string had big intonattionnissues..i think its was the A string.
I'm watching this during a #2
I wonder if anybody was watching during a #3, LOL.
@@GuitarQuackery my high E is actually having a similar intonation problem - might be time for new strings or a new guitar. Hmm. It's a half step off on the octave.
Thanks.
thanks for the images now in my head of the royal family on their thrones 🚽🚽
Any time.
China bass guitar strings are inconsistent thickness,they fooled me once,never again........I stick with Ernie ball slinkeys or rotosounds.....
I’m not sure what brand strings were on that bass. But, of course, machine can jam up even at the high-end factories. They literally make millions of strings per month.
@@GuitarQuackery Sho nuff......