Fix Your Fender Amp’s TICKING VIBRATO (TREMOLO) Problem!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2020
- Ticking tremolo (vibrato) is a common problem on vintage Fender amplifiers, especially from the CBS Silverface era. In this video we'll show how to completely cure the common ticking problem in Fender amps by following an old service bulletin called "Service Bulletin #9". The fix involves a mixture of changing the lead dress to route wires away from other signal and voltage carrying wires, and adding a .01 capacitor across the 10M resistor in the vibrato circuit. Enjoy the video! Hopefully this will help someone.
FENDER SERVICE BULLETIN #9
The official Fender solution
The ticking caused by the Vibrato is caused by improper lead dress.
It can almost be “cured” by connecting a .01 mfd 600 volt mylar capacitor
on the 10 meg ohm resistor in the vibrato circuit. this resistor is located
on the parts panel. Remove capacitor across the 10 meg ohm resistor (old
modification) if in place. (That is, run the cap from the junction of the 10 meg resistor and the
optoisolator to ground.)
If this does not produce the desired results, then the leads should be
dressed as follows and excessive lengths shortened.
1. Dress the leads to the vibrato speed and intensity controls away from
the tone controls and filter leads.
2. “Bunch” the leads to the components on the parts panel which connect to
the tube socket of the 7025 (12AX7) vibrato tube.
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Learn something everyday, mission complete .
buddy you and Uncle Doug have been a HUGE help in my DIY amp repair...thanks a million! Excellent and keep them coming!
I agree.
Hi Brad, allways enjoying watching your videos 👍
This helped me a lot on a 1976 Twin Reverb, the capacitor swap and a 12AT7 tube fixed the ticking. Thanks dude!
Another awesome vid man! Keep these repair's a commin'! :)
Thank you for this video, the 0.01 cap, bypassing the 10M resistor completely fixed the ticking noise issue on a 69 SF Vibrolux Reverb (AB568) that I'm working on. Keep the good works!
brad , george from houston here i just love your channel, u remind me of my friend jeff seal here in houston
he was a memerable amp tech here in houston,,,,,, great friend of mine ...he died few years ago, but your voice and logic tone is just like his was, i really value your vidios
You are the man! Did it and works like a charm! Thanks a lot!
Outstanding! my 67 Vibrolux Reverb is doing the same thing. Now I know what to look at trying!
Hey now!!! Another great video Brad.
Thanks... this was easy and just what my 1974 Pro Reverb needed... now she's nice and quiet.
Brad, this was a great problem solving money saving or money making issue depending on what side of the problem you're on. Thanks!
Thanks Brad! Just what the doctor ordered. Fixed my noisy Bandmaster with the help of your video. I believe it's pronounced "Trem - mou' - lou" - like the cow says.
"Service Bulletin #9" is an avant garde masterpiece.
Thanks Brad! Nice tips.
👍👍 helluva job there sir!
In today’s episode Brad answers the important questions like, What’s that clicking noise??
Very Very Happy to see this Vid My 70s fender Twin Reverb Mas Vol. Has this prob !!
Thanks for this vid - very helpful
Thank you for making amp videos again
More coming down the pipe.
Many thanks this solved the problem.
Awesome opening :-) Cool trick with the jack in the foot switch input :-)
Just last week I cured the tremolo ticking on my new to me 1974 fender pro reverb using Rob Robinette’s technique, which involves placing a capacitor across the tremolo roach. Fixed it 100%.
More than one way to skin a cat, it seems. Love your videos!
I'm sure there are other ways. Rob's site is a good one. Always great info from him.
Good little fix Brad ...
my '76 DR only ticks for a few seconds after power up ... so i've not gotten around to fixing it as yet. Great Video Brad!
Thanks for this Brad. Trying a 12AT7 and doing the lead dress didn't really make much difference on this SF MV Twin, but the cap mod helped somewhat.
Great work. So many amps over the years. A Nice Deluxe would be sweet.
I ran into this issue on my first couple of DR builds. I see it as a design flaw in the routing of the 2 grid wires for the V6 12AT7 inverter tube, pins 2 and 7. They routed them in the same routing holes, or adjacent to the tremolo output wire going to that center pin of the tremolo jack. The tremolo wire is like a spark plug. The signal is being shot down that tremolo wire from point F on the drawing, plate output from V4B, out through the photo bug like an electron power drain to reduce signal to give you the tremolo effect. I rerouted the 2 inverter wires away from the tremolo wire and used shielded coax for those 2 wires. It eliminates that ticking even with reverb on. It doesn’t take much movement of the tremolo wire away from the grid wires sometimes and that’s why it manifests itself a bit different between amps.
Nice fix a little research and there ya have it...that really is the perfect amp...
As usual, you rock!
Nice one Brad.
Well, you made my day sir, to see what I made being used for what it was intended, as insignificant as it is, was a thrill, not gonna lie, many thanks man.
I really appreciate how you find spots for fan mail to get into videos, that's just really cool man, and if it actually doesn't work well, please don't continue to use it on my account, if the tip is too fat, you can sand that down and then hit it with some linseed oil, which is why I did the finish that way, just easy to reapply.
Yes, I spent way to much thought on what is a fairly insignificant thing, but I can't control my brain, it has a mind of it's own...
Anyway, I just thought I'd let you know you made someones day today, thanks again man!
Thanks for that. It’ll get a lot of future use I’m sure.
Thanks for the tip(s). I have a blackface DLX RVB and the .01 cap worked. The wire locations look way different than yours so I left them alone.
I received the Bonus Repair and Bonus Video on my amp!
love the amp vids how about another killer conversion awesome channel brad
I swear I had one doing this...so i passed it on! Wish i'd of known this then!
Excellen. thanks for information
Glad I found this my 1970 silver face deluxe is ticking like a clock 🌴👍👍😎🌴
Brad, love your amp repair videos (keep them coming). Your videos are so much better than Lee Jackson's. He seems like a little bit of a 'hack' to me. Keep up the good work!
I wouldn't say that at all. I mean, he's Lee Jackson. I think maybe some of his vids were made a while back.
Best show on youtube
I've done this on a few silverface reverbs, never on a blackface. Had to make a few roaches though, they deteriorate over time. Your right on about the standard of the wire lay changing - they got scruffy as time went on.
Good repair
Wow what a difference the dressing of the wires made... And honestly, I found the wording for the installation for that capacitor just awful.. But you nailed it Brad! Great job, thanks for sharing. Be well, Tom
Yeah, can’t figure why they didn’t just say “in parallel with the 10M resistor”.
@@TheGuitologist because the schematic shows it to not be in parallel with the resistor. The words are only partially correct in that the cap is to be placed ON the resistor, but it doesn't tell the whole story. It can work in parallel with the resistor too though (sometimes). I think I've now seen 4 ways to skin this cat: your parallel method, Service Bulletin #9, 220pF across p1 and p3, and a diode across the outer lugs of the Intensity pot. Each of these change tone and feel, especially depending on the orientation of the outer shield of the cap used (or disc cap).
Great video, Brad. Quick question: are you using yoga blocks to support the amp while you work on it?
Another nice vid. Measure the LFO on your scope and see if it is a square wave. Then measure it with the new capacitor and see if it is more "rounded" on the edges. The sharp edges of the LFO will cause this ticking noise. Im curious to see if that's the issue. How come no lead solos or guitar playing at the end of this vid?
I’ve only became aware of your channel a couple of months ago. I can’t wait for SPF . But it’s really cool to watch all your old videos. You’re hilarious and don’t mind calling it like you see it . Political correctness is a plague on society.
Great video very interesting yeah my fender amp has some hum
Going on
It floors me to see how these signal paths were originally made. Who on earth figured out which capacitors added or removed different parts of the spectrum?!! Beautiful to see
The tremolo circuit is just an oscillating tube stage which is connected to a light bulb, such that the light bulb flickers on and off at an adjustable rate. The light bulb shines onto a photovoltaic resistor, that is a resistor that changes resistance depending on how much light is shining on it. That resistor is then connected somewhere in the signal path and acts as a volume pot of sorts.
@@TheGuitologist you need to publish brother. You have an encyclopedic knowledge of electronics!! Thank you for taking that time. I NEVER would have figured that out!
Michael Farady, James Clerk Maxwell, and James Watt, to name a few. Up until the 18th century, human beings didn't even know what electricity was. Throughout the 19th century, many people, including those mentioned, contributed to the basic science that unlocked our understanding. In the 20th century this fundamental understanding was progressively put to work to create useful technologies. (The oscillator circuit discussed here was developed during this time.) Today we stand on the shoulders of those who went before us.
In another lifetime, and I mean a long time ago, I was a bench tech in the marine electronics industry. The way I'm reading the bulletin, is If there is a capacitor across the 10 meg resistor (parallel), remove it. Then add a .01mfd capacitor from the 10 Meg resistor to ground (series). The schematic sure looks like that to me. Am I missing something? Regardless, adding the cap across the resistor looks like a fix. Nice job on the video, and very good "how to"....Thanks for sharing!
You're absolutely correct. That's how "service bulletin #9" actually did it. The original bulletin even includes a layout drawing. However, doing it the way that Brad shows here ALSO works, and sometimes works better than Fender's recommendation. Go figure.
That's right, the bulletin says to place the capacitor between the junction of the 10M ohm resistor and the optoisolator TO GROUND. It does NOT say to place it in parallel to the 10M ohm resistor.
I have a 65 reissue from the 90s. I have the same tech have the updates that you’ve showed been done to this one already maybe I should just replace that tube.
Me again with a 1965 Deluxe Reverb blackface, this time the 100nf capacitor solved the problem.
Great Tip Brad! Thank you for sharing this. It could apply to almost any amp with the same type of vibrato/tremolo!
Yep.
I got a new 68 Custom Deluxe Reverb dude it was ticking so bad I sent it back & got another new one it also ticks not quit as loud but pretty loud. Many folks say it's the curse of the Fender Deluxe Reverbs black face & silver face models, I heard a cap installed at the point of the circuit just in front of the tube that does the vibrato will stop it .
Hi Brad, do you by chance know the resistance of the CDS cell in the roach. I have a one with a broken lead.
Sweet.
Would wrapping the leads in shielding tape or something similar contain the interference?
I have a fender vibro champ XD and it seems to do a similar thing when I crank it ... any ideas ??
Just picked up a Fender Bandmaster TFL5005D probably from the late 1960s or early 70s. The Tremolo is doing something weird. When activated using the footswitch, the effect seems to turn on but it has no depth to it. Can hear the oscillator running and the speed control works as expected. The Trem sounds like it is in the background only. Does the "roach" in these amps often go bad? Could that be the issue here? I can pick up a new bulb / resistor roach from Tube Depot thankfully if needed. Thanks for any info!
I just bought a new Princeton reverb 65 reissue and having the same issue with the tremelo thumping sound - I sent it back to the supplier as I thought there was something wrong but they’re saying it’s normal.
Any ideas? Anyway I can confirm if it is indeed normal for a new 65 blackface reissue ?
Thanks!!
You're the pro, but I have a couple thoughts. Maybe winding or braiding the green, white and black together and insulating them after removing them from behind the pots and resister instead of cutting them down would lessen the length. and add the Mylar Cap 2: I have to wonder if we can insulate/shield the sloppy lead dress with some aluminum tape shielding wrapped around them then coat the entire area wrapped in aluminum in liquid tape or similar to avoid any shorts in the future and maybe that will at least minimize the noise enough to add the Mylar Cap which seems to be a must will finish the problem or more importantly removing the wires behind the pots and out of the way of the resistor on the cap that you had to remove and the Mylar Cap would have solved the whole issue. Any how the way you did it worked so.
Brad, what would happen if you rap a shield around the lead pack wiring all the way to there terminations and ground the shield to the body? Do you think it think it would cancel out some or all of the noise? And yes I felt your pain with the garbage disposal, took mine out and started a recycle bin for the garbage and use the waste after it works down on my plants as a compost. My disposal doe's not break down anymore. My simple life hack! Best wishes from south Florida........
OK..i love your channel but if i have to hear you say TRUMOLOH one more time im gonna scream lol..Its TREMELO !!!
I hope you popped the plug out on the dishwasher connection on the garbage disposal you installed on channel 2.
Hi friend, I have the same probleme on the FDR '65 Reissue . This model doesn't have a Neon Lamp, It Have a pcb mini card for "simulate "a neon lamp effect.The wiring of that pcb come together to tubes wirings. How to erradicate te ticking in this case?
Effect rode has a comment on their website to move the ground on the speed control to the ground of the resistor and capacitor on the cathode of the oscillator tube, not the opto driver tube.
I have a hum on my Vibrato when it’s on . Could a tube be causing that? . It’s only there when the vibrato is engaged .
Where can I find a Astron ez-10157/ 20-10-10 microfarad cap?
I’ll try the tube swap first. My ‘68 custom deluxe is noisy and ticking loud!
Hello, the ticking is increasing and decreasing with my REVERB from 1-10. All videos I see are about tremolo but my tremolo works/sounds fine, it is only when I touch the reverb channel it changes the loudness of the ticking. Any ideas?
also i wanna say, in quick, my girlfrind became disabled from lupos , i began building amps to keep sanity while i
watch over her , something i could research and learn while i sit with her, i got my 100 watt old carvin turned into a power head, ive built a couple preamps to connect to my power head , my amps have a preamp pi then to power amp,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,kinda modular.... pre and pi to power.via rca connectins im having a blast building my amps, i want to thank you brad and uncle doug, and d lab and blue glow for opening a new door for me that was so much needed ....
Amazing. Thank you for watching, George.
@@TheGuitologist i was watching the vid on pi switching 100k 47k 1.5k resistor on cathodyne pi, seems there is a resistor missing , doesnt the cathode have a 1,5 k from the cathode before the switch matrix ? the schematics ive seen have a 1.5k to same value on the plate , where can i put the switch matrix on a 56k plate, 1meg to 1.5-56k cathode cathodyne pi?
My first thought was that it sounded like a capacitance charge and discharge.
Hoping someone can offer some thoughts on my ticking 78 Vibrolux tremolo. Amp is with a tech once again to try and fix the ticking tremolo. Optocoupler has been replaced and every 'fix' known to man has been done including redirection of wires from the tremolo controls etc. etc. I called my tech today to see how things are going and he informs me that as soon as the chassis is put back into the cabinet the ticking returns thinking he has it solved. So when the chassis is on the workbench no ticking. Cover the circuit/chassis with a piece of foam while on the bench and running ticking goes away. So when the circuit is exposed to light it's fine but when in darkness the ticking is back. He is a patient man but I think he's had enough of my Vibrolux and I don't blame him. Nothing seems to work. The new optocoupler (bug) was the type that is fully sealed. If anyone has any thoughts as to what on earth is going on please respond ! Thanks in advance.
I have same problem on vox ac 30 cc2
What is the deal with all those bundled up wires in the front? I've never seen that. Twisted heaters in the back, yes. But what are they trying to accomplish with those bundled wires? Some kind of shielding?
Most of the time I find that the Plate wire to the B side of the 12AX7 before the Phase inverter is very close to the Grid wire of the 12AT7. That's usually the first place I look.
There’s only one 10M resistor in the amp. Brown/Black/Blue.
I believe that’s true for all AA/AB circuit amps.
If I wear my phone on my belt and I play while seated it induces a ticking in the guitar's pickups.
This mod didn't work on the Vibro-King. What did work was increasing the snubber cap from .022 to .47uF.
Amp keeps on tickin' tickin' tickin'.... Into the Future!!!!!
is that like "PLAN 9" : )
READ THIS IF YOUR AMP TICK'S!!
I have never had a ticking problem until today, and didn't know how it happened. After an hour of searching i finaly found what was wrong!
This weekend i had installed an electric mower. This little thing senses his border through a cable where there is a current going through. The signal is quite strong because it can sense it up to 100ft. (30m). And because its so strong, the pickups on my guitar sense it, causing the ticking!
For those who have electric dog fences, its the same deal.
So before you open up your amps, check if its not caused by something like this.
Brad, i would love to see another Mesa Booger Electric Bogaloo! Any chances?
NO.
Just teasing Brad :) do whatever you like! Love the Amp stuff! You inspire me to electrocute myself one of these days!
How bout a Marshall jcm2000 those relay networks are Fun and clicky as all get out 😂
Would love to see Brad rip apart an Orange Amplifier.
Hey Brad, why not put a couple of teroid to act as a choke to get rid of that noise ?
Ricky from IBM
What's a teroid?
Richard Biffl A toroid is a coil of insulated or enameled wire wound on a donut-shaped form made of powdered iron. ... Toroidal coils of a given inductance can carry more current than solenoidal coils of similar size, because larger-diameter wires can be used, and the total amount of wire is less, reducing the resistance .
Using this donut shaped powered iron it can be used as a choke to trap or choke of EMF and or RF from interfering with electronic devices
Ricky from IBM
Brad I can’t find your last shit post Friday and thought you had pissed somebody off !
What watt of speaker should I use in a 40 watt fender amp? Thanks
40w or greater if it’s a single speaker. 50 is safer.
@@TheGuitologist What would be to much?
Does the .01 MFD capacitor have to be 600v? Is that what you used in the video or a lesser voltage?
There is about 350v at that spot. But the way I installed the cap was technically wrong from what Fender suggested, so the V potential is not that large. The mod I did is really a safer mod than their actual suggested one. See pinned comment.
@@TheGuitologist Thanks for the quick reply and info.
I had a tikking problem on my Black Face Tremolux
Brad I have a question for you do you know how to take the finish off a telecaster. I'm trying to refinish mine. It's a 96 and I'm at my Whit's end. Grrr! I hope you see this . Maybe use it for shit post Friday ha! 🤠
Sand it until the finish is gone.
Ok I will try
That ticking problem AND the hissing reverb were the reasons I returned 2 brand new Custom 68 Princetons. For that kind of price, it's unacceptable.
Did you end up getting one without that problem?
Wiring a tube tremolo is a dark art, not science. Once you wire it up according to the schematic, you are about 10% done. Had a similar issue with the tremolo on a Mojotone tweed vibrolux clone. Three days later after pushing wires around and adding shielded cable it worked perfectly!
I have a twin that ticks, would this possibly be a fix for a twin?
Yes. Same concept.
before doing that maybe check the wires at the valve for the tremolo (the 5th for a drri) see this video th-cam.com/video/AZWJevfjrUw/w-d-xo.html for more info. It fixed the same problem on my ddri
0:55 beer gut side profile pure sexyness.
Wow, how many months are you Brad?
the idea of slapping capacitors in circuits leads me to think it would also effect the tonality or effect the sound . i know its common practice but i tend to avoid the "snubber cap" game.
unluckily the European version has a replacement for the roach :/ i think, that originally the extra cap was intended to be connected to ground (to the other side of the roach) ... In my case, European version of the reissue, just rearranging the wires to the tremolo tube helped a lot, being aware, that in some positions the tremolo won't work anymore. Oscillation won't start. The rest was eliminated by adding a PPIMV master volume ;)
What? Why didn't you use a steel brush?
Built in metronome
Service Bulletin number 9, number9, number 9
Vatican Intro 🤣✌️
I thought it said Ticking Vibrator?
Apple would call that ticking a built-in metronome. 😁