Told my son Usmc aviator c-130 this same thing.. been a ff /medic 37+years ! My officers /chiefs had the degree. not a lot of actual exp . So I seen lots of mistakes w /leadership ! Told him don’t look down your nose at them ! Moral is he leads his crew & steps up to help the team when ever ! Now we say TEAM ! That’s how you be a leader ! The team works when they respect you ! Thanks all serving 🇺🇸. God bless
Nick, we served together in IPAC before you went to Recon. I would definitely say you and Sgt Baldwin provided much leadership to the Marines in the unit. No one can ever say you didn't lead from the front. Thank you for your service.
I retired after 21 years in the Corps. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I learned as much from poor leadership as I did great leadership. Leadership is a trait that must be nurtured each and every day. A true leader should never have to remind his Marines, soldiers, airmen or sailors that he is the boss or in charge. If he has to tell his subordinates that he is in charge, he probably really isn't.
Semper Fi Brother. I'm also a retired Marine Master Sergeant. Amtracer. 23 years 2 days. Follow/set the standard, lead from the front and set the example. I never asked anyone to do anything that I wouldn't do or haven't done.
At height of WW2 there were a handful of 4 Star Generals - now there are like 50. Classroom time can never compete with tacit knowledge and life experience.
Seriously? Have you checked into this? The U.S. Government added a 5-star General rank during WWII because so many 4-star Generals were active. Why would they need any 5-star Generals if only a "handful" of 4-star Generals existed?????
@@jasonswann5167 You are mistaken. Only Army commanders were 4 star generals during WW2. At the beginning we had 5 infantry and 1 cavalry division. Towards the end we had not quite 100 fielded. Only 2 or 3 star generals command an entire division.
Well said Marine from the son of a great man, my father who was a WWII Okinawa Marine. When growing up, the biggest insult I’d ever done was when my Dad came home after working a 16 hour shift + more cause one of his men at his power plant was being called up by his company in Detroit. I asked him if his men couldn’t do the job, why he didn’t turn them in to the company to which he replied, “Son, these men left their best side in the battlefields & I’ll be damned if I or anyone else will throw these brave men to the company wolves!” I never felt so ashamed in my life, & it provided me a lesson I never forgot! God bless you Marine!
It was hard to do everything perfectly as a young squad leader. But I personally believe that when you lead by example and hopefully it’s a good example people will follow and be inspired!
True that. I was a LCPL in the Marines and the boots had to choose a mentor, they all chose me and none of the NCOs. Caused a huge uproar. I strived to lead, not to power trip. Doesn't mean I was Mr. Nice Guy though.
Well those are two different worlds. Politicians have to be a certain way to get things done, they are dealing with the general populace so I would classify them more as Administrators. They lead to some extent but they dont and probably will never have the full buy in of the public so they have to worry about their image.
I had a brigade commander in the army who always told us “perception is reality” in referring to how the brigade looks to superiors. Everything he did as a leader was driven by image.
I would also throw "The Great Santini" in there as another show about the whole "Military Family led by a Hard-Chargin' Marine/Soldier". Robert Duvall did a great job in that role, imo, and I actually like the movie more than the book (the character is based upon Pat Conroy's father and it has always annoyed him that his dad is more popular at his book-signings than he is, heh...)
Ironically the story of Sound of Music was flip flopped from how it was in real life. In reality Von Tramp spoiled his kids, he was a retired submarine captain and just wanted to enjoy the good life. Maria was actually the disciplinarian and was called in to help restore order. The whole boatswain whistle thing was used, but every one of those kids had one; he couldn’t keep track of them because of how big the estate was, and how many kids their were. When Von Tramp couldn’t find one of them he would call the kids name and they would blow the whistle.
My 3 war vet granddad use to say wisdom is gained through 1 of 2 ways. Experience or Knowledge. You either learn through hardship or by listening to those how came before you. Thank you Nick for passing this on this wisdom of what it takes to start to become a good leader man!
I can answer this question in one sentence: They're more concerned with serving political roles and pursuing the political interests of the State Politick, than they are with winning wars and training war fighting military forces.
it's in large part due to the more modern ''nature" of war, where they swtiched from trying to win to just playing for leverage. Which is stup*d. But it's like quicksand. They can fire them if they don't play ball and find someone else who will do what they're told. The system allows for favouritism. There is no true ''objective" way for them to promote so they promote based on who they like, personally. Plus a lot of stuff is just word salad. I've been on this channel for a few weeks now and I know pretty much nothing about Nick. I know he braggs a lot about his businesses but I have no idea what they actually are. Nor what exactly he did to build them. All I've learned about the military in recent years is that they like to use key works that sound vaguely good, and be super vague. And just in case it sounds like I'm taking cheap shots, I'm not. Past 3 videos he mentions his multiple 7 figure businesses in all 3 videos. Those figures sound inflated to put it mildly. But I am sure it gets him clicks and ppl signing up to his classes, so...whatever, I guess? If we were to be honest tho the biggest problem with the military, at least online, is the hyporcrasy and deceptive practices. They never lose the mindset that they're supposed to be in recruiter mode and keep trying to sell you a picture that is completely unrealistic. They never lost the ''if you're not cheating you're not trying" thing. Even if it does more harm then good that's what they were taught and that's what they keep trying...like hamsters on the wheel.
I was blessed during my first 5 years in the army of having a great leader to look up to, a platoon warrant officer who was one of the most reliable soldiers in the regiment despite being among the quietest personalities. He gave me the confidence that I could make it in the infantry despite being more bookish and quiet. During my junior leadership course, my style was compared to his, and that one compliment made me double down on trying to become a great leader. I’m still trying. It’s like the Holy Grail, you’ll never be perfect but it’s the questing that matters.
Me and a couple of NCOS we placed on trial for wrongfully bullying new marines which this case lasted 8 months just for them to come out and say they were lying and our case was dropped just for us to still be placed on administrative separation panel potentially facing a Other than honorable
I appreciate this guy and his candor. I’m a 55 year old civilian who has had to endure the occasional meathead boss who touts his prowess as a leader because he was in the military. Almost to the man, they were complete disasters.
I believe you but military leadership, althouth officers are different and military culture varies, their leadership style is suited for a particular environment. I mostly had great officers when I served as a conscript in the army of my country. Naturally, they could not behave in the same way as leadership in civilian life. Similarly, I have had many leaders in civilian life. Few of them were suited for military leadership, but only a limited number were neither suited for civilian leadership. I think that the main difference with military leaders overall is that regardless of their skills and determination, they have to lead by example. They also have to be a part of the military mission. Not just give orders and then attend to other things. The military in general makes sure that a soldier understands his mission and has at least the basic level of skills and knowledge necessary for assigned missions. In general military leaders are sesponsible 24/7 for their men, which is very different for most of civilian life. However, there are of course many bad civilian leaders in the world, and those leaders cause an absolute catastrophe fo their soldiers.
On my way out of the MC two years ago, my "back office" was more worried about their promotions than the Marines. We called them Management. I refused to call the Leadership.
I am at the DrillSergeant Academy currently. I definitely needed to hear this. I need to find a way to instill instant willingness and obedience to orders simultaneously instilling they do what they are told to do because they want to.
When your people understand what is happening around you and what your goals are, with good training and experience they were probably getting ready to do the same thing. Every soldier has chances to make decisions that are better or worse for the immediate and overall mission, and when they have the pertinent information, and know their fellow soldiers, they'll follow orders in the best way possible.
Yes, toxic leadership is rampant in the military! Not all leaders in the military are toxic, but too many are, and they seem protected, which is mind boggling!
Im from the Viet Nam era. Best leader I saw was a full blooded Cherokee E4 who offcers both deferred to and resented. If I told the whole story it would shock you.
I agree 100% with you Nick. I had a few great leaders and mentors during my time in the corps. The problem was I was surrounded, by terrible management they were not leaders at all.
Thanks for sharing this. While I’m not military myself. I was under the false assumption that military life, structure, and combat experience equaled leadership material automatically. And outside the military that is how it is presented to us on tv, commercials, veterans on podcasts and TED Talks, even from family and friends. Thanks for shedding an honest light. Gave me something to truly reflect on once I enter military life.
Nailed it Brother! I went from being a hard charging Airborne Ranger qualified Infantry squad leader to being a husband, Dad, and leader in the white collar world. No comparison- Military leadership is way easier!
Id say its easier because the military tries to get rid of the shitbags. In the civilian world not so much. You really have to be a shitbag ie hard criminal to be gotten rid of. And nowadays i would say even thats not applying to being a hard criminal
Nick - I'm an old school Recon Marine from Camp Talega, to Camp Flores. I had good leaders and witnessed some shitty ones. But I witness the worse leadership from a Col., when I was able to lead my first team and give my first patrol order to a room full of brass in Yuma, AZ for drug interdiction Ops. I've learned that "Leadership is not a rank, it is a choice, to protect those around you. Leadership is an education. And that the best leaders think of themselves as students, and not teachers. - Simon Sinek I appreciate the honesty.
Retired after 24 yrs in the USAF. I was generally proud of blue leadership throughout my career. We have a ladder of training, education and experience requirements to filter the best qualified to the top. There were exceptions, but most were very competent - at least in the tactical flying arena. Today we had nearly a one hundred percent promotion rate to major. That’s in every career filed. Everyone makes major! In my day the promotion rate to major for fighter pilots was 70% at best. That’s after those not on track for major already resigned to join the airlines before getting passed over. Now, as I look from the outside, I see the wrong priorities. Commander’s Calls focus on sexual harassment, racism, inclusion, and every minor complaint from the rank-n-file. Airman of the year is more than likely to win with her animal rescue volunteering than with her actual job performance. We are losing our edge. We no longer have formal ceremonies like Dinning-Ins or Dinning Outs that build unit morale. Any social event involving alcohol is now deemed inappropriate. The male warriors are leaving for the airlines or national guard. The Chief of Staff thinks he was promoted to four stars because he was the best pilot. The dude was an average viper driver. I knew him when he was a major. Average is good, but claiming he had to be twice a good because he was black made us all roll our eyes. The next USAF Chief of Staff will be a woman…gayer the better, so we have the trifecta of perfect DEI leadership legacy. Jewish/Black/Female. That’s your US AF today.
those things break cohesion, create friction and other things you do not want if you think treating the enlisted ranks decent and any event that forces alcohol is inapprobiate and worse Honestly i expect or want a Commanding general to be a competent leader with strategic competence, i do not care how good ge could fly or shoot
I agree with your views on this matter. Some of the Officers I served with hadn't got much of a clue.. Without the NCO'S in the Royal Marines many officers would fail at the first hurdle.
yeahh,... so if you have a commander willing to break the law himself it;s ok if he asks you to do it too, right? ... it's not that simple, dude. I don't get this recent trend to try to turn the military into all cheap slogans but in real life it's never that simple.
Coming from a Marine Infantry background, I always found the leadership selection to be busted, because it focused too heavily on physical performance. The worst leaders we had were PT studs and Security Force dudes, while the best leaders we had were mid PT scores. We literally had a roided out squad leader, whos kidneys kept failing from roids, but he was a PT stud on paper, so he kept his job. The best leader I ever had, shoutout Cpl. Brown, had a bad back and was a genius, with robust emotional control. I literally saw him verbally drag a dude through the mud in front of everyone, then turn around and take care of the guys needs -- because he knew he wasn't a screw up, he just screwed up. Muscles don't make the leader. And the Marine Corps can't understand that.
@johnlloyddy7016 Precisely. Physical excellence is important in the Infantry, especially, but intellect is equally important; and seems to be hardly screened for. Likewise, there is one trait I find to be more important than both, emotional excellence. Muscles, physical resilience, and knowledge can be developed in a years time. Mentality, emotional robustness, and spiritual wellness take a lifetime to develop. Its my earnest opinion that the Military only stands to profit by seeking to promote emotionally fit individuals first and foremost. There's no substitute to for a big heart and a level head.
I think appointments to Military Academies is part of the problem. Many just want free education, leading to politics, or some other government job. If Academy graduates were required to serve 20 years, you would weed out those who aren’t serious. JMO.
@@darbyheavey406 very accurate statement! I grew up 45 mins north of USMA in NY. Was infatuated with the idea of West Point from a young age. Served 9 years in the Air Force, and any academy grad I met from West Point, USAFA, USNA, etc just seem off. At the time West Point was create in 1802 the idea behind the military academy was to create a corp of officers who could raise and train a militia in the event our country was attacked. There was not going to be a standing army at that time. Throughout the 19th and 20th century those who sought appointments to the service academies went there to learn to be career officers. There were other institutions like Harvard, Princeton, etc that one could go to if they just wanted to be educated. But you were to the academies for the sole purpose of being a military officer. A career one. If you just wanted to become an officer the other routes (rotc, ocs) could fulfill that objective. But the academies are supposed to be the tip of the spear, only the brightest get in there. Those who attend the service academies should not be getting released from their military obligations to go play professional sports…
I agree with everything you said. Well done. Much of what our Marines think is leadership is pretending they are drill instructors. The is a time and place for everything.
I can say from the Army perspective, leaders have been saddled with so many bureacratic tasks that it is a real struggle to find time to lead and devlop initiatives. Most surrender to the machine and perform a checklist. It fails the service members.
I have a gut feeling you probably worked with my dad, who was and is an amazing leader...which set me up for failure when I joined the air force and expected my normie enlistment to mirror the special ops community I grew up in. The shit leadership I experienced at my home base and during both of my deployments is what sealed the deal on me getting out after 4.5 years. Can't believe it's been 12 years now 🤯 even though you message is feared towards men, I now have a small family that I could really use a freaking manual for and I appreciate your call for showing up as a leader at home 🙏🏻
The closer the leadership is to those serving , the greater the understanding and willingness to lead on a daily basis . Rank does not secure privilege .
I used to be in the military for a short period of time last year, and i perfectly understood everything you said Nick. I studied and lived inside a Navy Academy for a little while. I was surrounded by many officers, and by very high profile individuals too sometimes (like admirals or even Chief of Navy staff's members). Albeit i love the military world, I honestly need to say that very few of them were really worth reputing as leaders, the rest were just old men wanting to show their shiny decorations, and talk about politics more than anything else. You surely know it way better than i do, and i think you can understand that too. It's so disappointing. Anyway, great content as always, never tired listening you. Take care Nick.
@@cwr8618 i did go away from the italian Navy, but on the other hand I didn't want to become an Ensign just to sign papers in a cabin, so i left. But i do miss the physical activities tho, especially the camaraderie. But no regrets, life needs to be carried on.
Preach! Got out of the Army and went corporate. The company I work for mandates Jocko’s book “extreme ownership” for company leaders. I couldn’t make it a quarter of the way through the book. No offense to Jocko, he’s probably a great leader, but he talks about leading navy seals. The cream of the crop, no concept of a budget, unlimited access to whatever they need to accomplish the mission. I want to see how he handles a platoon of Army cooks, or how he handles a loading dock full of underpaid hourly workers.
Couple of examples is Admiral McRaven, who was relieved of command as a Navy Seal for poor leadership but he managed to still climb the ladder because he was a politician in uniform, another one is the recent female captain dismissed from her command of her ship for serious abuse of those under her command. It seems you have to be willing to play political games or you check certain boxes to get promoted beyond Major or Lt Colonel.
I knew a guy who was a Marine that served in Iraq. He was an incredibly nice guy, and you would have never guessed he experienced combat. I don’t remember what his rank was, but he did have other Marines under his charge. When he disciplined his troops with extra PT, he was right alongside them, doing PT as well. The men under him greatly respected him for that. As a civilian, he was a terrific coworker.
Excellent perspective, i felt at age 40, my knowledge gained in life started its transformation to wisdom, at age 50 now, 4 kids, 27 years of marriage, successful 4th gen business i am still learning, make occasional mistakes, but creating the character that makes others want to follow and be a part of our vision is essential, thats where the respect your team gives you is formed. God bless you.
"The Air Force is suffering from pilots who have lost faith in their generals, jet engines that still don't work after repairs and maintenance depots with 'little quality or quantity of work being produced', according to an internal Defense Department memorandum. The draft memo paints a troubling picture of the state of American air power. 'The sad state of air-force readiness can be blamed on the Clinton Administration, which treats the military as a toy to be deployed for meals-on-wheels-type missionswithout due consideration for it's impact on readiness", said Robert Maginnis, a retired Army Lieutenent colonel and an analyst at the conservative Family Research Council
As someone who will be joining the Navy as a PT (O-3) I'll be going in with the hope and ambition to inspire people to give their best at everything I work with them on because it's my job to do so as a PT to begin with. Otherwise you don't get better
Semper Fidelis. This was challenging for me. I left the Corps because politics had found its way to the battlefield. I’ll tell you what however, I was a squad leader, and by learning well, our proficiency ceiling was eerie. We should talk sometime. I mean, like water that could learn like a child. Imagine that. A constant evolution. It was an inspiration to witness and be a part of. So, I miss the hunt, I cannot lie. God Bless you brother. 3/2 L Co. Hammer 2/2 Dirty Dozen. Errrrrr I can’t stop growling lololol.
I was in the Army and the Marines. Later became a guide and a schooner captain. The Marines taught me volumes about how not to lead lol. My mos was 0321.
Well, yes. Don’t assume stereotypes are true is one. I expected better from the MC, but my mistake was having unrealistic expectations. All the senior NCO’s were Vietnam vets and mostly broken people. The officers were insufferable.
Nick, I am sure you have evolved conscientiously throughout your time in the Marines to have reached certain levels of analytical thinking about what is good leadership. Having served from 1984-1989, man, where do I begin? It is definitely not about rank, power, or degrading others. You, my brother, nailed a well thought out argument in defining some of the characteristics of leadership: Being a good communicator, expressing empathy and sympathy, having a collective vision where unit members want to be part of this larger vision. Nick, you are so right. It has to come from within. In psychology, the concept is known as introspection. In philosophy, many referred to the ongoing quest for deeper and more meaningful dialogue as the Socratic Method. During my four years, man, i had some bad leadership, some so so leadership, and right before getting out, last 8 months, i had some very decent leadership. It took about 3 years and some months, to finally be in a good leadership unit. Right before getting out. General George C. Marshall, US Army, on the Army side, a man that understood commitment to duty and leadership. The Army & Marine Corps has had some decent leadership but it also has had questionable leadership. Nick, you are an intelligent man, I can tell. Keep growing. I wish you the very best. ***Leadership should include for leaders to be continually educated. Being infantry was an education but being educated and in the Infantry is an ideal Soldier or Marine. General Jim Mattis is the example.
Hey Nick, I just picked up staff after 8yrs of USMC. Leadership is that conversation that hasn’t seemed to stop being a big topic the whole time. I think I've now experienced as dynamic a spectrum of styles as one could be exposed to and have 2 conclusions. The leaders personality and character play a huge role in whether or not they’re a good leader. There is only one kind of good leadership….effective leadership. The Marines under you are all very different. And each one needs a different tact IOT get them to work best. Sometimes you’ve got to swallow your ego, and take a step back to talk to them, others need a stern talking too. Either or being a bitch never helps. Ive also noticed that marines with more combat experience tend to be more authoritarian. Sounds like your time in. My take on that is that most guys from that era, didn’t have as much time to develop the communicative style b/c making marines obey in combat will keep them alive longer, and you can’t lead them if they’re dead. Whatever you did when you were in, it worked well enough, and thats good leadership. Today on civi street you have to alter your style b/c normal people legally don’t have to put up with your shit. So it seems harder. I feel in my era in I have to communicate like that because of the generation I’m in. Less action, more BS, and smarter kids (in a way). It will come full circle. Being a good leader is like climbing a hill in Bridgeport, you make progress but you’ve never made it. semper yut. Μείνε υπέροχος
It's interesting to hear pretty much the same story on leadership from various branch veterans (a lot seem to be ex-Spec Ops here in TH-cam land with their own channels to boot) what they thought leadership was and what actually makes a good leader. Same story every time! Being a veteran of two different branches, I couldn't agree more.
I spent most of my Army career as a Scout. Even before I was put in a leadership role I always tried to pass on what I knew to the youngers guys. I was never in a platoon of more than 20 guys so we were extremely tight. When I was put into a leadership role I always did my best to take care of my guys. I always asked my guys their opinions and thoughts on everything we did. I have always applied that to my family life. I have a beautiful wife and 5 kids that range from 25 all the way down to 2.
Spot on. I was an FO and while my intrinsic Platoon was GREAT (i honestly got lucky), who i was attached to sucked balls. It was like the joes were always walking on egg shells. It was do as i say, not as i do. It was dry and isolating. This is an intrinsic structural problem in the junior enlisted. When i was down on the line, the chill leaders were the officers.
Boy I could go off on this for an hour or too. There's a lot more to what he is saying & of course there's differences between the services but he's definitely onto something.
"Could I bring these people together to accomplish a mission in the absence of the structure we exist in now" was a question I pondered quite a lot. Even employer-employee is a conditioned structure. The ultimate test is a body of untrained strangers who need to be inspired and banded together to meet some threat. The latter is rare in modern life, but it is the condition to evaluate yourself against as you develop.
The Army conducted a post-Vietnam study on leadership, which indicated that many officers pursued commissions in order to meet certain neurotic needs. As a retired officer (commissioned 2001), I witnessed/experienced this reality consistently. Validating their egos becomes the primary function of their career rather than their oath to the Constitution or professional responsibilities to the organization and its members.
The Navy has really struggled with quality leadership, especially ship side. But even my shore command was poorly structured and they forced me out simply to cover up mistakes made on their part. I'm glad branches are struggling with retention. Maybe when everyone's gone big military will figure it the fuck out and actually make some changes
I spent eight years on active duty, then 2 years in active reserve. I learned that a lot of the bad officers and Senior Petty officers/NCOs failed "up." The good ones got out.
A "whole system in place" is a great point. Any officer especially that gets out and goes to the private sector is often left entitled and dare I say naked without their support staff. Some adjust quickly and others just cant get over it.... Especially from the respect side they think they are due.
I would say the same for the Navy. I was a Naval Aviator, was a leader at times and was led. The commanding officers or leadership I followed, 10% were great, another 20% or so were good, the rest not so much. As an Aviator, I felt a great leader led from the cockpit, from the front. In my 20 years, I had one great flying leader, but he was not a CO. I had maybe two good leaders who led a squadron. So much of it was politics, appeasing those above you, and that is not leadership.
I was in 2nd marine corps recon in 89 to 05 this was right at the marsoc billet shit i hit then was ok we had pipe hitters then- dudes in cadre were tls in vietnam and even old dudes were korean vets- leadership then was the wolfpack - - just came naturally
I left the Navy primarily due to bad leadership. It was torture to work in an environment like that. I decided to learn from good and bad examples alike to be better myself.
I was in Marine Corps infantry, 0311, rifleman, from 1978-1981. We were never trained to use an M-60. We were never trained to use a mortar. I still shake my head at the lack of basic cross-training to this day. Having said that, my drill instructors were insanely good, total respect, and for the most part I was impressed with my officers. A lot of the problems came from the shitbird enlisteds. The example of leadership I remember most was when we were out in the field, on a forced march through Camp Lejeune, it had just rained and was hot and muggy, everyone was pissed off, and then out of the blue our young lieutenant suddenly let out a loud scream, ran out of company formation and dove in full gear into a mud puddle. The entire formation cracked up laughing, it totally broke the mood. It was perfection.
I've thought about this, and I've tried to put this into words before to my buddies when I was in, and everyone's like yeah... I dunno about that, maybe. Obviously, I either wasn't explaining it good enough, or... Perhaps they didn't trust my "leadership" enough to be open to the idea I was putting forth. Either way, very well said. Awesome video, thanks for explaining this.
I spent…sacrificed…14 years of my life dedicated to the very concept you refer to here. As a college option Army OCS guy, my ADSO was only 3 years. I could have gotten out in 2012 after my AFG deployment. I chose to stay because I believed in what the institution stood for. I voluntarily left at 14 years because of the same thing. The leaders only stood for themselves. They didn’t stand on the principals they preach or hem up Joes for. Their bottom line was no longer the preservation of what made the military great. And every time I saw other Majors around me, I saw that reflected in their faces…in mine. That we were supposed to be the tip of the spear for leading organizational culture, but in reality anyone that wasn’t toeing the line. Leadership is about finding the harmony between taking care of those in your charge (Simon Sinek drop) and accomplishing the mission. The not thing leaders really have control over is themselves and sometimes that has to be sacrificed to meet that goal. You don’t have anyone ready to die for those principals. Gone are the leaders who will charge like Dick Winters in the crossroads battle. I fear for what becomes of the military branches when my two boys are of age.
As a former Marine Captain. I heartily agree. I commissioned when I was 22 and I wasn't prior enlisted. The Marine Corps invests heavily in training for their officers. Between OCS, TBS, and MOS training it can take over a year before you hit the fleet. Still, I would say it is not enough. Looking back at the decisions I made, I still kick myself and wish I could redo so many things. My brain wasn't fully developed. I had a college degree, and zero leadership experience but I was still placed in charge of people. If I could do it over again, I would have enlisted. I think before you even go to OCS you should enlist for 2 years. Go through bootcamp, MCT/SOI, and spend time in the fleet as a junior Marine. Some will say that just because you were a great enlisted Marine doesn't mean you will be a great officer, or point to many great officers who were never enlisted. Still despite these individuals, I think the stakes are too high for the rest of the Marine Corps to directly commision athletic and intelligent people who turn out to be arrogant, and self centered.
It’s mind numbing when you experience it first hand. You hear about it all the time but then you see it and you think: “how is this guy real right now?”
It all comes down to which source of power you rely on as a leader. "Legitimate power" is bestowed by your rank. Overused today. "Reverent power" is, your soldiers will follow you out of respect and because they want to, not because they "have to". Reverent power is the pinnacle of leadership. Some have it instinctively, some have to work hard to get there. Most don't even try, just continue to rely on legitimate power. Coercive power, reward power, and expert power are in there too. Expert power is good. You'll follow the soldier who is good at land navigation through the Mojinga swamp, Ft Sherman Panama.
Here’s what I feel happens with you guys. I’ve seen enough videos. Most managers in military seem to think “I yell and scream and curse out subordinates as if they are children bc I can and they can deal with it” I heard one guy, when I was at an eatery, tell his supervisor “a leader asks questions” His supervisor told him “no, leaders do what they’re told” yeah, let me say “I would ask questions all the time”
Part of leadership is communication/coaching. Teams need to understand the why of the mission and their part in it. Expectations on individual performance and contributions need to be clear. If a team member's actions need to be improved, it is on the leader to communicate that to the team member. If the team member changes behavior, but their corrections don't meet the target, the leader must comunicate using different means. It is the leader's responsibility to be understood. Love your teams like they are family...
1:40 this is why I never thrived completely in teh military. even during/after Basic, and into combat deployments, I never stopped thinking for myself and questioning orders. Brainwashing doesn't work on a critical mind.
Correct. There are good and bad “leaders” all over the place. I spent almost 15 years experiencing all of it from boot camp to my final years as a staff NCO. Being a grunt, I served under at least a dozen different officers at the company level throughout my career. Some of these officers arrived from the Academy, some from college ROTC, and some were mustangs. Different paths, different traits. I was told long ago when I was a Lance Corporal that a good leader seeks out the traits that he/she wants to emulate to his own people, and you discard the traits you don’t like. “Pick your style”. Sometimes we resort to that dictatorial style when it’s necessary, and sometimes you sit down and listen to your team and really be empathetic and human. Styles of leadership sometimes get tweaked based on the people you lead. Not everyone responds the same way. The hardest thing to learn as a leader is which style are you going to implement for individuals and for the group.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
Marine Corps leadership taught me that if everyone else is doing the wrong thing and you're doing the right thing then you're wrong..
My experience a lot as an infantry paratrooper in the 82nd.
That’s how cults work
Man that’s funny
Hahahaha! Exactly. We’re you in 1st Recon in the early 80’s?
@@boathemian7694 lol I wasn't even alive in the 80s but hey it's good to see some traditions don't fade 🥴
A true leader is the one who serves those he leads , not demands to be served by them .
Told my son Usmc aviator c-130 this same thing.. been a ff /medic 37+years ! My officers /chiefs had the degree. not a lot of actual exp . So I seen lots of mistakes w /leadership ! Told him don’t look down your nose at them ! Moral is he leads his crew & steps up to help the team when ever ! Now we say TEAM ! That’s how you be a leader ! The team works when they respect you ! Thanks all serving 🇺🇸. God bless
They usually don't get promoted or get tossed aside while the toxic leadership get rewarded due to pleasing the person above them
Nick, we served together in IPAC before you went to Recon. I would definitely say you and Sgt Baldwin provided much leadership to the Marines in the unit. No one can ever say you didn't lead from the front. Thank you for your service.
No kidding! In those days I definitely tried to lead by example. However, still very young and inexperienced. Hope you are well friend.
OH SHIT YOU GUYS WAS AT AN IPAC😂
@@RemembertThe20thMain and?
@@NickKoumalatsos82 I didnt know you a where fellow Ipac Pog like myself. RAH
@@RemembertThe20thMain sure was for a short time. I have told the story many times. Very funny.
I retired after 21 years in the Corps. I don't disagree with anything that you said. I learned as much from poor leadership as I did great leadership. Leadership is a trait that must be nurtured each and every day. A true leader should never have to remind his Marines, soldiers, airmen or sailors that he is the boss or in charge. If he has to tell his subordinates that he is in charge, he probably really isn't.
Absolutely the case everywhere in life!! Well said sir!
Semper Fi Brother. I'm also a retired Marine Master Sergeant. Amtracer. 23 years 2 days. Follow/set the standard, lead from the front and set the example. I never asked anyone to do anything that I wouldn't do or haven't done.
At height of WW2 there were a handful of 4 Star Generals - now there are like 50. Classroom time can never compete with tacit knowledge and life experience.
Each one of those 4 stars infight for resources too.
Yeah there was a survey published that the AF had like 1 general for every 850 troops.
Seriously? Have you checked into this? The U.S. Government added a 5-star General rank during WWII because so many 4-star Generals were active. Why would they need any 5-star Generals if only a "handful" of 4-star Generals existed?????
@@jasonswann5167 You are mistaken. Only Army commanders were 4 star generals during WW2. At the beginning we had 5 infantry and 1 cavalry division. Towards the end we had not quite 100 fielded. Only 2 or 3 star generals command an entire division.
@@jasonswann5167 Besides, traditional Americans realize large standing armies are expensive to maintain. Let alone put in the field.
Well said Marine from the son of a great man, my father who was a WWII Okinawa Marine. When growing up, the biggest insult I’d ever done was when my Dad came home after working a 16 hour shift + more cause one of his men at his power plant was being called up by his company in Detroit. I asked him if his men couldn’t do the job, why he didn’t turn them in to the company to which he replied, “Son, these men left their best side in the battlefields & I’ll be damned if I or anyone else will throw these brave men to the company wolves!” I never felt so ashamed in my life, & it provided me a lesson I never forgot! God bless you Marine!
It was hard to do everything perfectly as a young squad leader. But I personally believe that when you lead by example and hopefully it’s a good example people will follow and be inspired!
That is definitely the first part of it.
True that. I was a LCPL in the Marines and the boots had to choose a mentor, they all chose me and none of the NCOs. Caused a huge uproar.
I strived to lead, not to power trip. Doesn't mean I was Mr. Nice Guy though.
No one can be perfect or 100% correct all the time. Too much pressure to put on oneself.
Politicians worry about their image...Leaders worry about results...
Many politicians running the military not as many leaders.
Well those are two different worlds. Politicians have to be a certain way to get things done, they are dealing with the general populace so I would classify them more as Administrators. They lead to some extent but they dont and probably will never have the full buy in of the public so they have to worry about their image.
@@ronaldjackson2290 That's why politicians are worthless.Leaders make things happen, politicians make excuses.
I had a brigade commander in the army who always told us “perception is reality” in referring to how the brigade looks to superiors. Everything he did as a leader was driven by image.
@@adamantlyadam5201 typical stupid officer lol
“Major Dad” is the show you are thinking of but “The Sound of Music” was probably the first film to tackle that same subject
Ha! yes that is what it was.
I would also throw "The Great Santini" in there as another show about the whole "Military Family led by a Hard-Chargin' Marine/Soldier". Robert Duvall did a great job in that role, imo, and I actually like the movie more than the book (the character is based upon Pat Conroy's father and it has always annoyed him that his dad is more popular at his book-signings than he is, heh...)
Ironically the story of Sound of Music was flip flopped from how it was in real life. In reality Von Tramp spoiled his kids, he was a retired submarine captain and just wanted to enjoy the good life. Maria was actually the disciplinarian and was called in to help restore order. The whole boatswain whistle thing was used, but every one of those kids had one; he couldn’t keep track of them because of how big the estate was, and how many kids their were. When Von Tramp couldn’t find one of them he would call the kids name and they would blow the whistle.
that show is where I first heard the name Gerald McRaney......he did such a job on that show I thought he was a real marine
My 3 war vet granddad use to say wisdom is gained through 1 of 2 ways. Experience or Knowledge. You either learn through hardship or by listening to those how came before you. Thank you Nick for passing this on this wisdom of what it takes to start to become a good leader man!
I can answer this question in one sentence:
They're more concerned with serving political roles and pursuing the political interests of the State Politick, than they are with winning wars and training war fighting military forces.
it's in large part due to the more modern ''nature" of war, where they swtiched from trying to win to just playing for leverage. Which is stup*d. But it's like quicksand. They can fire them if they don't play ball and find someone else who will do what they're told. The system allows for favouritism. There is no true ''objective" way for them to promote so they promote based on who they like, personally. Plus a lot of stuff is just word salad. I've been on this channel for a few weeks now and I know pretty much nothing about Nick. I know he braggs a lot about his businesses but I have no idea what they actually are. Nor what exactly he did to build them. All I've learned about the military in recent years is that they like to use key works that sound vaguely good, and be super vague. And just in case it sounds like I'm taking cheap shots, I'm not. Past 3 videos he mentions his multiple 7 figure businesses in all 3 videos. Those figures sound inflated to put it mildly. But I am sure it gets him clicks and ppl signing up to his classes, so...whatever, I guess?
If we were to be honest tho the biggest problem with the military, at least online, is the hyporcrasy and deceptive practices. They never lose the mindset that they're supposed to be in recruiter mode and keep trying to sell you a picture that is completely unrealistic. They never lost the ''if you're not cheating you're not trying" thing. Even if it does more harm then good that's what they were taught and that's what they keep trying...like hamsters on the wheel.
I was blessed during my first 5 years in the army of having a great leader to look up to, a platoon warrant officer who was one of the most reliable soldiers in the regiment despite being among the quietest personalities. He gave me the confidence that I could make it in the infantry despite being more bookish and quiet.
During my junior leadership course, my style was compared to his, and that one compliment made me double down on trying to become a great leader. I’m still trying. It’s like the Holy Grail, you’ll never be perfect but it’s the questing that matters.
Leadership is a privilege and many tend to forget that.
And something you have to continue to develop in one self.
Me and a couple of NCOS we placed on trial for wrongfully bullying new marines which this case lasted 8 months just for them to come out and say they were lying and our case was dropped just for us to still be placed on administrative separation panel potentially facing a Other than honorable
We had guys that happened to in my unit. They were found not guilty, and missed a deployment because of that too.
To many sissy boys in these days I see,
Bullying? This new military culture seems out of touch.
I appreciate this guy and his candor. I’m a 55 year old civilian who has had to endure the occasional meathead boss who touts his prowess as a leader because he was in the military. Almost to the man, they were complete disasters.
I believe you but military leadership, althouth officers are different and military culture varies, their leadership style is suited for a particular environment.
I mostly had great officers when I served as a conscript in the army of my country. Naturally, they could not behave in the same way as leadership in civilian life. Similarly, I have had many leaders in civilian life. Few of them were suited for military leadership, but only a limited number were neither suited for civilian leadership.
I think that the main difference with military leaders overall is that regardless of their skills and determination, they have to lead by example. They also have to be a part of the military mission. Not just give orders and then attend to other things.
The military in general makes sure that a soldier understands his mission and has at least the basic level of skills and knowledge necessary for assigned missions. In general military leaders are sesponsible 24/7 for their men, which is very different for most of civilian life.
However, there are of course many bad civilian leaders in the world, and those leaders cause an absolute catastrophe fo their soldiers.
On my way out of the MC two years ago, my "back office" was more worried about their promotions than the Marines. We called them Management. I refused to call the Leadership.
I am at the DrillSergeant Academy currently. I definitely needed to hear this. I need to find a way to instill instant willingness and obedience to orders simultaneously instilling they do what they are told to do because they want to.
be the leader they do not want to disapoint and give them a good reason to what they are told and why
When your people understand what is happening around you and what your goals are, with good training and experience they were probably getting ready to do the same thing. Every soldier has chances to make decisions that are better or worse for the immediate and overall mission, and when they have the pertinent information, and know their fellow soldiers, they'll follow orders in the best way possible.
@@Ocker3
give them missions and goals not only orders. and if the situation permits listen and answer to their input
Yes, toxic leadership is rampant in the military! Not all leaders in the military are toxic, but too many are, and they seem protected, which is mind boggling!
Im from the Viet Nam era. Best leader I saw was a full blooded Cherokee E4 who offcers both deferred to and resented. If I told the whole story it would shock you.
Offcers? Him being “full blooded Cherokee” is irrelevant to being whatever he was
@@flight2k5 people like you are just dicks
@@flight2k5 Silly comment.
@@cavscout7113 you’re right. His comment is silly
@@flight2k5 no, your comment. Karen.
I agree 100% with you Nick. I had a few great leaders and mentors during my time in the corps. The problem was I was surrounded, by terrible management they were not leaders at all.
Thanks for sharing this. While I’m not military myself. I was under the false assumption that military life, structure, and combat experience equaled leadership material automatically.
And outside the military that is how it is presented to us on tv, commercials, veterans on podcasts and TED Talks, even from family and friends. Thanks for shedding an honest light. Gave me something to truly reflect on once I enter military life.
Nailed it Brother! I went from being a hard charging Airborne Ranger qualified Infantry squad leader to being a husband, Dad, and leader in the white collar world. No comparison- Military leadership is way easier!
Id say its easier because the military tries to get rid of the shitbags. In the civilian world not so much. You really have to be a shitbag ie hard criminal to be gotten rid of. And nowadays i would say even thats not applying to being a hard criminal
If you don't mind me saying but when I'm hearing is the that leadership is an art form that requires continues practicing and self reflection.
self reflection / self control and taking things seriously
Definitely
Yes in every aspect of life!
And not putting yourself first.
Nick - I'm an old school Recon Marine from Camp Talega, to Camp Flores. I had good leaders and witnessed some shitty ones. But I witness the worse leadership from a Col., when I was able to lead my first team and give my first patrol order to a room full of brass in Yuma, AZ for drug interdiction Ops. I've learned that "Leadership is not a rank, it is a choice, to protect those around you. Leadership is an education. And that the best leaders think of themselves as students, and not teachers. - Simon Sinek I appreciate the honesty.
When were you at Telega? I was A company there
Retired after 24 yrs in the USAF. I was generally proud of blue leadership throughout my career. We have a ladder of training, education and experience requirements to filter the best qualified to the top. There were exceptions, but most were very competent - at least in the tactical flying arena. Today we had nearly a one hundred percent promotion rate to major. That’s in every career filed. Everyone makes major! In my day the promotion rate to major for fighter pilots was 70% at best. That’s after those not on track for major already resigned to join the airlines before getting passed over. Now, as I look from the outside, I see the wrong priorities. Commander’s Calls focus on sexual harassment, racism, inclusion, and every minor complaint from the rank-n-file. Airman of the year is more than likely to win with her animal rescue volunteering than with her actual job performance. We are losing our edge. We no longer have formal ceremonies like Dinning-Ins or Dinning Outs that build unit morale. Any social event involving alcohol is now deemed inappropriate. The male warriors are leaving for the airlines or national guard. The Chief of Staff thinks he was promoted to four stars because he was the best pilot. The dude was an average viper driver. I knew him when he was a major. Average is good, but claiming he had to be twice a good because he was black made us all roll our eyes. The next USAF Chief of Staff will be a woman…gayer the better, so we have the trifecta of perfect DEI leadership legacy. Jewish/Black/Female. That’s your US AF today.
those things break cohesion, create friction and other things you do not want if you think treating the enlisted ranks decent and any event that forces alcohol is inapprobiate and worse
Honestly i expect or want a Commanding general to be a competent leader with strategic competence, i do not care how good ge could fly or shoot
The Great Santini. Robert Duvall nailed it.
-Dan
I agree with your views on this matter. Some of the Officers I served with hadn't got much of a clue.. Without the NCO'S in the Royal Marines many officers would fail at the first hurdle.
Never ask someone to do something you would not do yourself. That is what inspires.
yeahh,... so if you have a commander willing to break the law himself it;s ok if he asks you to do it too, right? ... it's not that simple, dude. I don't get this recent trend to try to turn the military into all cheap slogans but in real life it's never that simple.
@@andrabook8758: When you leave a comment on social media you will never get every aspect of a topic. KISS Principle applies.
Coming from a Marine Infantry background, I always found the leadership selection to be busted, because it focused too heavily on physical performance.
The worst leaders we had were PT studs and Security Force dudes, while the best leaders we had were mid PT scores.
We literally had a roided out squad leader, whos kidneys kept failing from roids, but he was a PT stud on paper, so he kept his job.
The best leader I ever had, shoutout Cpl. Brown, had a bad back and was a genius, with robust emotional control.
I literally saw him verbally drag a dude through the mud in front of everyone, then turn around and take care of the guys needs -- because he knew he wasn't a screw up, he just screwed up.
Muscles don't make the leader. And the Marine Corps can't understand that.
Kinda similar to the idea about how a great fighter/athlete is not necessarily the best instructor/coach and vice versa.
@johnlloyddy7016 Precisely.
Physical excellence is important in the Infantry, especially, but intellect is equally important; and seems to be hardly screened for.
Likewise, there is one trait I find to be more important than both, emotional excellence.
Muscles, physical resilience, and knowledge can be developed in a years time.
Mentality, emotional robustness, and spiritual wellness take a lifetime to develop.
Its my earnest opinion that the Military only stands to profit by seeking to promote emotionally fit individuals first and foremost.
There's no substitute to for a big heart and a level head.
I think appointments to Military Academies is part of the problem. Many just want free education, leading to politics, or some other government job. If Academy graduates were required to serve 20 years, you would weed out those who aren’t serious. JMO.
Annapolis wants to be Princeton. That’s a huge mistake. The service academies do not serve any purpose at this point.
@@darbyheavey406 Annapolis grad here, agreed.
@@darbyheavey406 very accurate statement! I grew up 45 mins north of USMA in NY. Was infatuated with the idea of West Point from a young age. Served 9 years in the Air Force, and any academy grad I met from West Point, USAFA, USNA, etc just seem off.
At the time West Point was create in 1802 the idea behind the military academy was to create a corp of officers who could raise and train a militia in the event our country was attacked. There was not going to be a standing army at that time. Throughout the 19th and 20th century those who sought appointments to the service academies went there to learn to be career officers. There were other institutions like Harvard, Princeton, etc that one could go to if they just wanted to be educated. But you were to the academies for the sole purpose of being a military officer. A career one. If you just wanted to become an officer the other routes (rotc, ocs) could fulfill that objective. But the academies are supposed to be the tip of the spear, only the brightest get in there. Those who attend the service academies should not be getting released from their military obligations to go play professional sports…
@darbyheavey406 yep, 100%. The lack of general Naval knowledge of an academy grad is ridiculous.
14 year man here, i saw it change. agree, believe people.
Man, I appreciate this nick
You’re welcome brother.
I agree with everything you said. Well done. Much of what our Marines think is leadership is pretending they are drill instructors. The is a time and place for everything.
I can say from the Army perspective, leaders have been saddled with so many bureacratic tasks that it is a real struggle to find time to lead and devlop initiatives. Most surrender to the machine and perform a checklist. It fails the service members.
I have a gut feeling you probably worked with my dad, who was and is an amazing leader...which set me up for failure when I joined the air force and expected my normie enlistment to mirror the special ops community I grew up in. The shit leadership I experienced at my home base and during both of my deployments is what sealed the deal on me getting out after 4.5 years. Can't believe it's been 12 years now 🤯 even though you message is feared towards men, I now have a small family that I could really use a freaking manual for and I appreciate your call for showing up as a leader at home 🙏🏻
Lets get connected in The Agoge
The closer the leadership is to those serving , the greater the understanding and willingness to lead on a daily basis . Rank does not secure privilege .
Major Dad.
You made me think of the movie, "The Great Santini". Robert Duvall played the Marine CO of a fighter squadron stateside. Great movie!
This was a very necessary messuage that needed to be said, and I think you are an ideal person to speak on it
Amen! the last real Marine Corps Officer, who was a "real leader" was Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller...
this is one greek american badass congrats on a successful career
thank you
Nailed it Nick!
I used to be in the military for a short period of time last year, and i perfectly understood everything you said Nick. I studied and lived inside a Navy Academy for a little while. I was surrounded by many officers, and by very high profile individuals too sometimes (like admirals or even Chief of Navy staff's members). Albeit i love the military world, I honestly need to say that very few of them were really worth reputing as leaders, the rest were just old men wanting to show their shiny decorations, and talk about politics more than anything else.
You surely know it way better than i do, and i think you can understand that too. It's so disappointing.
Anyway, great content as always, never tired listening you.
Take care Nick.
did you pull chocks and go a different route altogether?
@@cwr8618 i did go away from the italian Navy, but on the other hand I didn't want to become an Ensign just to sign papers in a cabin, so i left. But i do miss the physical activities tho, especially the camaraderie. But no regrets, life needs to be carried on.
Preach! Got out of the Army and went corporate. The company I work for mandates Jocko’s book “extreme ownership” for company leaders. I couldn’t make it a quarter of the way through the book.
No offense to Jocko, he’s probably a great leader, but he talks about leading navy seals. The cream of the crop, no concept of a budget, unlimited access to whatever they need to accomplish the mission.
I want to see how he handles a platoon of Army cooks, or how he handles a loading dock full of underpaid hourly workers.
Couple of examples is Admiral McRaven, who was relieved of command as a Navy Seal for poor leadership but he managed to still climb the ladder because he was a politician in uniform, another one is the recent female captain dismissed from her command of her ship for serious abuse of those under her command. It seems you have to be willing to play political games or you check certain boxes to get promoted beyond Major or Lt Colonel.
@nickkoumalatsos god damn brother, that was some out of left field leadership on the first order of greatness.
Major dad from collins Mississippi
Another great video brother keep it up.
Thank you.
I knew a guy who was a Marine that served in Iraq. He was an incredibly nice guy, and you would have never guessed he experienced combat. I don’t remember what his rank was, but he did have other Marines under his charge. When he disciplined his troops with extra PT, he was right alongside them, doing PT as well. The men under him greatly respected him for that. As a civilian, he was a terrific coworker.
Excellent perspective, i felt at age 40, my knowledge gained in life started its transformation to wisdom, at age 50 now, 4 kids, 27 years of marriage, successful 4th gen business i am still learning, make occasional mistakes, but creating the character that makes others want to follow and be a part of our vision is essential, thats where the respect your team gives you is formed. God bless you.
Congrats sir!
Soft power is true leadership. Sometimes leaders have to tap into hard power depending on the situation, but mastering soft power is key.
Whole lotta wisdom here
appreciate that.
"The Air Force is suffering from pilots who have lost faith in their generals, jet engines that still don't work after repairs and maintenance depots with 'little quality or quantity of work being produced', according to an internal Defense Department memorandum. The draft memo paints a troubling picture of the state of American air power. 'The sad state of air-force readiness can be blamed on the Clinton Administration, which treats the military as a toy to be deployed for meals-on-wheels-type missionswithout due consideration for it's impact on readiness", said Robert Maginnis, a retired Army Lieutenent colonel and an analyst at the conservative Family Research Council
Look how it’s all run. Not merit based. No trust and teamwork. All schmooze and perception
I agree. 10 years active, got out as a LCDR, terrible leadership was one of the many reasons.
As someone who will be joining the Navy as a PT (O-3) I'll be going in with the hope and ambition to inspire people to give their best at everything I work with them on because it's my job to do so as a PT to begin with. Otherwise you don't get better
Semper Fidelis.
This was challenging for me. I left the Corps because politics had found its way to the battlefield. I’ll tell you what however, I was a squad leader, and by learning well, our proficiency ceiling was eerie. We should talk sometime. I mean, like water that could learn like a child. Imagine that. A constant evolution. It was an inspiration to witness and be a part of. So, I miss the hunt, I cannot lie. God Bless you brother. 3/2 L Co. Hammer 2/2 Dirty Dozen. Errrrrr I can’t stop growling lololol.
I was in the Army and the Marines. Later became a guide and a schooner captain. The Marines taught me volumes about how not to lead lol. My mos was 0321.
still good lessons none the less
Well, yes. Don’t assume stereotypes are true is one. I expected better from the MC, but my mistake was having unrealistic expectations. All the senior NCO’s were Vietnam vets and mostly broken people. The officers were insufferable.
Major Dad, The great Santini
I agree 110%. Couldn't wait to get out of Marine C-130 community after my 4 years were up.
Nick, I am sure you have evolved conscientiously throughout your time in the Marines to have reached certain levels of analytical thinking about what is good leadership. Having served from 1984-1989, man, where do I begin? It is definitely not about rank, power, or degrading others. You, my brother, nailed a well thought out argument in defining some of the characteristics of leadership: Being a good communicator, expressing empathy and sympathy, having a collective vision where unit members want to be part of this larger vision. Nick, you are so right. It has to come from within. In psychology, the concept is known as introspection. In philosophy, many referred to the ongoing quest for deeper and more meaningful dialogue as the Socratic Method. During my four years, man, i had some bad leadership, some so so leadership, and right before getting out, last 8 months, i had some very decent leadership. It took about 3 years and some months, to finally be in a good leadership unit. Right before getting out. General George C. Marshall, US Army, on the Army side, a man that understood commitment to duty and leadership. The Army & Marine Corps has had some decent leadership but it also has had questionable leadership.
Nick, you are an intelligent man, I can tell. Keep growing. I wish you the very best.
***Leadership should include for leaders to be continually educated. Being infantry was an education but being educated and in the Infantry is an ideal Soldier or Marine. General Jim Mattis is the example.
As a retired Navy Senior Chief who served 22 years, I totally agree!!!!!
Nice Major Payne reference. I used a line from the movie when my kids were scared of their closets……“If there’s a monster in there, he ain’t happy”. 😂
Getting a good review from your boss is more important than treating your subordinates right for your career...
Spot on Brother
Hey Nick, I just picked up staff after 8yrs of USMC. Leadership is that conversation that hasn’t seemed to stop being a big topic the whole time. I think I've now experienced as dynamic a spectrum of styles as one could be exposed to and have 2 conclusions.
The leaders personality and character play a huge role in whether or not they’re a good leader.
There is only one kind of good leadership….effective leadership.
The Marines under you are all very different. And each one needs a different tact IOT get them to work best. Sometimes you’ve got to swallow your ego, and take a step back to talk to them, others need a stern talking too. Either or being a bitch never helps. Ive also noticed that marines with more combat experience tend to be more authoritarian. Sounds like your time in. My take on that is that most guys from that era, didn’t have as much time to develop the communicative style b/c making marines obey in combat will keep them alive longer, and you can’t lead them if they’re dead. Whatever you did when you were in, it worked well enough, and thats good leadership. Today on civi street you have to alter your style b/c normal people legally don’t have to put up with your shit. So it seems harder. I feel in my era in I have to communicate like that because of the generation I’m in. Less action, more BS, and smarter kids (in a way). It will come full circle.
Being a good leader is like climbing a hill in Bridgeport, you make progress but you’ve never made it. semper yut. Μείνε υπέροχος
Thank you sir, Great insight
100% Great Topic.
It's interesting to hear pretty much the same story on leadership from various branch veterans (a lot seem to be ex-Spec Ops here in TH-cam land with their own channels to boot) what they thought leadership was and what actually makes a good leader. Same story every time! Being a veteran of two different branches, I couldn't agree more.
Communication and planning delivers leadership
I understand that my mother was a great leader. She inspired a lot of people to do great things, and She also did.
I spent most of my Army career as a Scout. Even before I was put in a leadership role I always tried to pass on what I knew to the youngers guys. I was never in a platoon of more than 20 guys so we were extremely tight. When I was put into a leadership role I always did my best to take care of my guys. I always asked my guys their opinions and thoughts on everything we did. I have always applied that to my family life. I have a beautiful wife and 5 kids that range from 25 all the way down to 2.
Spot on. I was an FO and while my intrinsic Platoon was GREAT (i honestly got lucky), who i was attached to sucked balls. It was like the joes were always walking on egg shells. It was do as i say, not as i do. It was dry and isolating. This is an intrinsic structural problem in the junior enlisted. When i was down on the line, the chill leaders were the officers.
We have a career military, not a professional one.
A professional seeks to DO.
A careerist seeks to BE.
Boy I could go off on this for an hour or too. There's a lot more to what he is saying & of course there's differences between the services but he's definitely onto something.
"Could I bring these people together to accomplish a mission in the absence of the structure we exist in now" was a question I pondered quite a lot. Even employer-employee is a conditioned structure. The ultimate test is a body of untrained strangers who need to be inspired and banded together to meet some threat. The latter is rare in modern life, but it is the condition to evaluate yourself against as you develop.
The Army conducted a post-Vietnam study on leadership, which indicated that many officers pursued commissions in order to meet certain neurotic needs. As a retired officer (commissioned 2001), I witnessed/experienced this reality consistently. Validating their egos becomes the primary function of their career rather than their oath to the Constitution or professional responsibilities to the organization and its members.
The Navy has really struggled with quality leadership, especially ship side. But even my shore command was poorly structured and they forced me out simply to cover up mistakes made on their part. I'm glad branches are struggling with retention. Maybe when everyone's gone big military will figure it the fuck out and actually make some changes
Major Pain
I spent eight years on active duty, then 2 years in active reserve. I learned that a lot of the bad officers and Senior Petty officers/NCOs failed "up." The good ones got out.
We are getting black listed at reunions with this one
😂😂
A "whole system in place" is a great point. Any officer especially that gets out and goes to the private sector is often left entitled and dare I say naked without their support staff. Some adjust quickly and others just cant get over it.... Especially from the respect side they think they are due.
I would say the same for the Navy. I was a Naval Aviator, was a leader at times and was led. The commanding officers or leadership I followed, 10% were great, another 20% or so were good, the rest not so much. As an Aviator, I felt a great leader led from the cockpit, from the front. In my 20 years, I had one great flying leader, but he was not a CO. I had maybe two good leaders who led a squadron. So much of it was politics, appeasing those above you, and that is not leadership.
I was in 2nd marine corps recon in 89 to 05 this was right at the marsoc billet shit i hit then was ok we had pipe hitters then- dudes in cadre were tls in vietnam and even old dudes were korean vets- leadership then was the wolfpack - - just came naturally
I think you are trying to remember the show Major Dad with Gerald McRaney
I left the Navy primarily due to bad leadership. It was torture to work in an environment like that. I decided to learn from good and bad examples alike to be better myself.
I was in Marine Corps infantry, 0311, rifleman, from 1978-1981. We were never trained to use an M-60. We were never trained to use a mortar. I still shake my head at the lack of basic cross-training to this day.
Having said that, my drill instructors were insanely good, total respect, and for the most part I was impressed with my officers. A lot of the problems came from the shitbird enlisteds.
The example of leadership I remember most was when we were out in the field, on a forced march through Camp Lejeune, it had just rained and was hot and muggy, everyone was pissed off, and then out of the blue our young lieutenant suddenly let out a loud scream, ran out of company formation and dove in full gear into a mud puddle. The entire formation cracked up laughing, it totally broke the mood. It was perfection.
I've thought about this, and I've tried to put this into words before to my buddies when I was in, and everyone's like yeah... I dunno about that, maybe. Obviously, I either wasn't explaining it good enough, or... Perhaps they didn't trust my "leadership" enough to be open to the idea I was putting forth. Either way, very well said. Awesome video, thanks for explaining this.
Major Dad, played by Gerald McRaney.
I spent…sacrificed…14 years of my life dedicated to the very concept you refer to here. As a college option Army OCS guy, my ADSO was only 3 years. I could have gotten out in 2012 after my AFG deployment. I chose to stay because I believed in what the institution stood for.
I voluntarily left at 14 years because of the same thing. The leaders only stood for themselves. They didn’t stand on the principals they preach or hem up Joes for. Their bottom line was no longer the preservation of what made the military great.
And every time I saw other Majors around me, I saw that reflected in their faces…in mine. That we were supposed to be the tip of the spear for leading organizational culture, but in reality anyone that wasn’t toeing the line.
Leadership is about finding the harmony between taking care of those in your charge (Simon Sinek drop) and accomplishing the mission. The not thing leaders really have control over is themselves and sometimes that has to be sacrificed to meet that goal.
You don’t have anyone ready to die for those principals. Gone are the leaders who will charge like Dick Winters in the crossroads battle. I fear for what becomes of the military branches when my two boys are of age.
As a former Marine Captain. I heartily agree. I commissioned when I was 22 and I wasn't prior enlisted. The Marine Corps invests heavily in training for their officers. Between OCS, TBS, and MOS training it can take over a year before you hit the fleet. Still, I would say it is not enough.
Looking back at the decisions I made, I still kick myself and wish I could redo so many things. My brain wasn't fully developed. I had a college degree, and zero leadership experience but I was still placed in charge of people. If I could do it over again, I would have enlisted. I think before you even go to OCS you should enlist for 2 years. Go through bootcamp, MCT/SOI, and spend time in the fleet as a junior Marine. Some will say that just because you were a great enlisted Marine doesn't mean you will be a great officer, or point to many great officers who were never enlisted. Still despite these individuals, I think the stakes are too high for the rest of the Marine Corps to directly commision athletic and intelligent people who turn out to be arrogant, and self centered.
This is VERY true. An average or poor leader can still be effective in the military (Infantry) due to the system/structure in place.
It’s mind numbing when you experience it first hand. You hear about it all the time but then you see it and you think: “how is this guy real right now?”
It all comes down to which source of power you rely on as a leader. "Legitimate power" is bestowed by your rank. Overused today. "Reverent power" is, your soldiers will follow you out of respect and because they want to, not because they "have to". Reverent power is the pinnacle of leadership. Some have it instinctively, some have to work hard to get there. Most don't even try, just continue to rely on legitimate power. Coercive power, reward power, and expert power are in there too. Expert power is good. You'll follow the soldier who is good at land navigation through the Mojinga swamp, Ft Sherman Panama.
I remember one of my civilian GS 10 was more influential than my O3, O4, and O5
Here’s what I feel happens with you guys. I’ve seen enough videos. Most managers in military seem to think “I yell and scream and curse out subordinates as if they are children bc I can and they can deal with it” I heard one guy, when I was at an eatery, tell his supervisor “a leader asks questions” His supervisor told him “no, leaders do what they’re told” yeah, let me say “I would ask questions all the time”
Gerald McRainey, the second half of Simon and Simon! He played the General in the ATeam movie!
The great santini is the show with Robert duvall
Among the many things upper leadership in the Marine Corps taught me is how to be an expert in not sky-lining myself. Both literally and figuratively.
Part of leadership is communication/coaching. Teams need to understand the why of the mission and their part in it. Expectations on individual performance and contributions need to be clear. If a team member's actions need to be improved, it is on the leader to communicate that to the team member. If the team member changes behavior, but their corrections don't meet the target, the leader must comunicate using different means. It is the leader's responsibility to be understood. Love your teams like they are family...
1:40 this is why I never thrived completely in teh military. even during/after Basic, and into combat deployments, I never stopped thinking for myself and questioning orders. Brainwashing doesn't work on a critical mind.
Correct. There are good and bad “leaders” all over the place. I spent almost 15 years experiencing all of it from boot camp to my final years as a staff NCO. Being a grunt, I served under at least a dozen different officers at the company level throughout my career. Some of these officers arrived from the Academy, some from college ROTC, and some were mustangs. Different paths, different traits. I was told long ago when I was a Lance Corporal that a good leader seeks out the traits that he/she wants to emulate to his own people, and you discard the traits you don’t like. “Pick your style”. Sometimes we resort to that dictatorial style when it’s necessary, and sometimes you sit down and listen to your team and really be empathetic and human. Styles of leadership sometimes get tweaked based on the people you lead. Not everyone responds the same way. The hardest thing to learn as a leader is which style are you going to implement for individuals and for the group.