I'd like to see where he got the scar, I know the actor got a scratch from an ex girlfriend and it just showed up in the render but I'd like to see what they'd have done with it. Also more info on whether it was withdrawal or ari causing him so much pain
+Otter In A Can Arguably the lack of dumb paranormal subplot made Heavy Rain a better game in comparison to other David Cage games. Not that it wasn't so hard to pull off in the first place, considering the quality bar of his games.
nuttex True... I still dislike the game, and maybe some of the paranormal stuff would have been interesting (and explained the plot better, I mean seriously, he left in the weird passing out sub-plot with no explanation.) but with David Cage's reputation, that wouldn't have helped much.
yeah it would have been but i think part of why they didn't was because they simply didn't have enough funding, at least for the chronicles anyway. Ethan's visions would have filled in a very big plot hole of this game, and since all it is is visions i think it's not too big of a supernatural element to make the game seem too unrealistic, they definitely could've kept it
I also had a *_major_* gripe with Ethan's blackouts since they really just go nowhere. When everyone just accepts that Ethan is the Origami Killer, I found myself asking *"But why tho?"* Because there's really nothing to go on, aside from Ethan going on these weird benders and trying to figure out why. And now, *_I kinda WISH_* they kept this splash of the supernatural. I personally don't see it being out of place, so long as the explanation behind it was *You got hit by a car*. Shit like that pretty much shakes the bookshelf that is your brain anyway. It seems like every time David Cage tries to do something to be more realistic or compelling, he only ends up shooting himself in the foot.
Same! I was never convinced Ethan was the killer. The explained blackouts make the entire game more interesting (even if it’s kinda silly) because you’d be wondering, IS this guy actually fighting himself?
i think rhe police were desperate to find a killer so they could get the press off their backs and not risk the mayors election so they jumped at the first opportunity to blame it on some mentally unstable divorcee
Wow the one time a supernatual element would have been justified in a David Cage game it gets removed. A lot of my issues with the story would have been solved if they kept the dreams and the supernatural elements in (the blackouts just left major plot holes). Hell I would have been more okay with Shelby being the Origami Killer if they kept a lot of this stuff in because in the actual game I didn't buy it at all.
***** A supernatural angle in the story is fine as long as it's built into the story and is written properly. While Heavy Rain still would have had massive writing issues with the supernatural parts numerous plot holes would be filled. The problem with David Cage games is that the supernatural angle usually has nothing to do with anything and just happens. If Heavy Rain was designed with Shelby and Ethan having a supernatural link then that works. If the story was built with that as the core then it could have been good. As long as it was consistent. It's the trope Magic A is Magic A. As long as the non realistic elements are consistent and explained then they're fine. If the blackouts were explained by Ethan's connection to Shelby then that's a justifiable plot element. But by removing the connection everything comes off as super random and unexplained.
You know, thinking about it now. I think Nahmen/Norman was implied to have been addicted to those ARI glasses he loves to use and that Triptocaine was to mitigate the side effects. The ball minigame conveys extensive use and in the final sequence using the thing you can die with your eyes bleeding and such. The butler also should have known what Triptocaine was and not be discreet with it when he referred to it as "You Know What", unless saying what it actually was, ARI, would have upset Norman. Just a theory that seems to be thrown around a lot, but after watching a let's play of it I can't help but think this is the case. Maybe that DLC would have been the curveball which would confirm the above. Who knows at this point...
I never believed the butler was referring to the Tripto, but to the ARI. Which is why at the end of the game, when I was given the option to "Give up" on the case instead of using the ARI to solve it, I just gave up, thinking that I would die if I solved it. But that doesn't happen either :S
David Cage: "visions and psychic links are too supernatural, they stretch believability" *procedes to put ghosts and demon monsters into his next game* WHAT?!
@@itskelvinn It doesn't, I've never owned any PS so I played all Quantic Dream games only now after steam release. Imagine making that large plot hole that after completing Heavy Rain I had to google wtf is with Ethan then and why did he have origami after blackouts or why exactly did he woke up at the area where an event that had created an Origami Killer took place (and end up watching this vid). Imagine having Beyond look more logical and real despite it is Sci Fi, while Heavy Rain has that much stuff that makes totally no sense (besides already mentioned scenes, that scene and shooting in Kramer's manor - wtf was that circus for? And why did Shelby keep asking "who is the origami killer" before killing Kramer? It seems that this scene was made solely with a purpose to fool the player only, since nobody else is there and Kramer has no evidences against Shelby. I get it that Shelby visited every victim's parent to hide evidences, but this scene is beyond dumb, as if an attempt to fool the player specifically) and those story incoherences are unforgivable for Detective Thriller. Now after watching those removed scenes in YT it all makes total sence and it should have stayed that way. Even Beyond Two Souls' original (mixed up) story is way more logical than orginial heavy rain's story with those cut out scenes
The blackouts kinda still made sense to me. I just thought Ethan had PTSD from the accident (having panic attacks in crowds/ flashbacks/ blacking out) The origami in his hand is what set me off. As for the flashbacks of drowning bodies- I always thought the origami killer had a REALLY bad impact on him. Mainly because he had just lost one son and he felt guilty on how many others were losing children as well... or maybe he was afraid his next son would be a victim. Which he was.
I'm glad any supernatural elements were removed. It made sense to me that Ethan was trying to piece together what he read from the news and his son's disappearance along with the origami killer leaving origami for Ethan to find.
The matrix fights and the under water secret chinese base portal were, among other things, just fine but psychic/psychotic/thematicallyappropriatesupernatural elements bringing together a murder mystery was over the top?
So I recently played the PS4 version of Heavy Rain (literally finished it a few days ago), and I gotta be honest - I probably would've liked the story more if the Supernatural elements were present, if only to make the blackouts actually make some sort of sense, not to mention that it would make Ethan's suspicions of himself seem logical. Overall, I still liked the game. Even if it's filled with narmy voice acting, plot holes, terrible child characters and Madison constantly under threat of being raped or killed, it was clearly made with passion for the project. I personally don't think Cage is a _bad_ developer, he just needs to lose some of his ego. Fingers crossed he's learned his lesson from the panning Beyond got and Detroit Become Human turns out okay.
Holy shit. I had no idea these scenes were removed. This makes a LOT of sense. I loved Heavy Rain. Maybe even a little more than I loved Fahrenheit. I do think these removed scenes would have been really cool to have left in. I can REALLY see why they removed them though. David Cage is insane. I love him but he's insane. They must have wanted to be taken more seriously for Heavy Rain. The blackouts make a lot more sense now. Thanks for this video. Definitely going to subscribe.
I think the story would've been much better if Ethan really was schritzophronic and the guilty part of his conscience developed into a second personality. You wouldn't need the supernatural scenes for that, but rewriting and different scenes all the same. I agree tho that if their aim was for it just to be a red herring to Shelbey, the water scenes would've made it better (even the Japanese cover was Ethan under water, which was rad). But in my opinion the story would've been much better overall without the Shelbey twist.
AAARGH! Great video! That's so frustrating that they left that out, because I remember thinking "sooooo, what was the deal with the blackouts?" After I finished my first playthrough.
Anyone notice the similarities of "The Casting", "Kara", and "Dark Sorcerer"? They all feature a character talking to someone on the other side of the camera. I wonder if they will try something different next time. Come to think of it, how many developers actually release tech demos?
Heavy Rain is one of those games that convinced me to buy a ps3, unfortunately by the time i got it i had watched the entire playthrough, but i still remember it as an interesting experience. When i heard about the supernatural elements being left out, i was confused. confused to why they had left them out to begin with. Everything made sense once this was revealed and i preffer thinking about the game this way. I kinda have to think about the game this way since Ethan still claims to have seen the dead children...
On one hand, it would have been pretty weird for a serial killer like Scott to just randomly create a psychic bond with a target, but on the other hand, there's no denying that they could have easily tweaked Ethan's blackouts to not seem so unnatural and near magical. If anything, he still could have come off as possibly being a killer, even almost like a copycat, but as it is, it certainly did feel like a huge tie was missing from the game to explain it. Of course, all but Jayden had their quirks vanish early on into the game. Madison's insomnia is never a factor after she has that nightmare, Ethan doesn't black out once during the trials, and Scott's asthma never once affects him. The last one is especially strange as you'd think some of the shit Scott goes through would have him winded, like nearly DROWNING in his own car. As for the DLC, it's a real shame they never did more chronicles, I'd have loved to see Jayden's origins, and it would have been interesting to see how Scott turns into a murderer. Maybe he decided to adopt a similar method to another killer while he was still a cop. Can't imagine what Ethan would have been up to, jack shit if his DLC was before the game's prologue, and likely fuckall if it was in the 2-year gap after Jason's death.
Of course it wouldn't, it would have made the story worse because it makes no logical sense at all for Shelby to be able to control Ethan at random to force him to commit murder if Ethan's completely unable to do the same. It's not like Shelby has more practice at controlling a mind or something, he'd just be randomly able to control him because 'evil', which is completely stupid. It's better to have weird unanswered holes in the plot than to have a specifically stated plot point that SPECIFICALLY creates plotholes while undermining the realistic and grounded tone of the game.
I'm really glad I watched this. Ethan waking up with the origami figure in his hand has always really bothered me. At least now I know why. Poor show Quantic...
The scar on Norman's face wasn't deliberately added by the game visual effects artists, it was simply a real cut on the actor's face when he went in to do his face capture photography. A bitch of an ex girlfriend used to enjoy attacking him and she did before these images of his face were taken. Source: th-cam.com/video/os9550YvRuU/w-d-xo.html
I see all this hate for David Cage, with some people calling him the M Night of gaming. I have to say... really? I don't think Heavy Rain had the best story, but I still think it holds up nicely. Yeah the supernatural parts were removed, but even with those not being there it's not really that big of a plothole compared to movies, and especially other games. Now I don't know anything about his other games outside of watching SOME of Beyond Two Souls (which I found okay I suppose), but I don't get how Heavy Rain is such a poor game, at least when it comes to story.
I think there are a few good individual moments, but I don't think they add up and contribute to the whole very well. Also, I just can't get over the fact that the game has a mechanic that hears the thoughts of the character, even though one particular character was thinking things he wouldn't be thinking, b/c of spoilers.
tbh,i think its interesting that they removed the supernatural elements,it is more grounded in reality now,and i thought that ethan was experiencing blackouts because he developed ptsd/depersonalization disorder. i think it makes sense,even with him having the origami figures after the blackouts,if he was suffering from one of those mental disorders and blacking out,he could probably do things during that time that he normally woulndt do/know how to do. Much like people with DID.
Okay so Heavy Rain was supposed to be Silent Hill Downpour before Downpour was even an idea. So the game was supposed to be shitty since the beginning, that's good to know.Nah, tbh, Heavy Rain might be dumb but it's, imo, the best out of Farenheit and Beyond Two Souls.
Chips Light I consider Heavy Rain to be sort of a guilty pleasure type game. There is so much wrong with it, but I can still enjoy the interesting things it tries to pull off. Beyond is just so weird and boring.
HyperBitHero It's the same for me with Farenheit in some way. Farenheit is so stupid and ridiculous to me that I just stop taking it seriously and just start having fun whenever I play it or watch a video of it (shoutout to 2BF Plays), unlike Beyoned Two Souls that tries so hard to be a "cinematic experience" that it just crumbles due to all its plot holes and dumb ideas. The more I watched the video, the more I thought that Heavy Rain could have, at least, become a decent game and a rather enjoyable experience. Sure, it wouldn't be like Silent Hill 2 were the possible meanings would be really smart or symbolic, but it would be fresh enough to put the entire plot on solid fundation. In the end, David Cage was dumb, as usual.
HyperBitHero Chips Light can you please finally DEFINE what's so bad in heavy rain? I have more than 20 years of experience in gaming and I do not see it as a bad game... I mean, the only real "errors" in Heavy Rain I keep hearing about is that it's not a shooting gallery and supposedly "bad" story, that is better than most other videogame IDIOTIC plot... same with Beyond.
1r0zz When a game is ALL story and can't even get that much together, it's fucked itself. I don't give a shit if a game is easy or hard or has lots of guns with shooting things. If the game accomplishes what it sets out to do, it's fine in my book. I love the concept of a game like Heavy Rain, and Walking Dead pulled it off fantastically. But Heavy Rain fails at it's own concept because it sets out to be a tense, emotional well-thought out story and it simply doesn't accomplish any of that. It's not the worst game ever, hell Beyond Two Souls is leagues worse, but again, it's all story and the story is poorly written crap. But seriously, don't get me fucking started on Beyond Two Souls.
FishStickOnAStick Beyond two souls and Heavy Rain have better stories, more adult stories and surely better written than Bioshock infinite or DmC(brit reboot) or quite a lot of other games... and both have emotional stories, not much original or much incredibly written, but they are more original than, again, most games out there. now you tell me that "Walking Dead" pulled it off better. how so? WHAT pulled off better? there are only 4 or 5 decently written character, and only in some part of the first series, the second series is just flatulence. of those 4 or 5 characters are only decent because of the very forced SITUATIONS written around them. it's a lot more forced and fake than anything written in beyond, and many times it have a terribly obvious outcome (like the little girl cannot die or get mangled or change too much in appearance...) and let's not dwell in acting and direction of the game... now. of course you do not know the existance of a genre called GRAPHIC ADVENTURE. there are games that you simply move between 360 pre rendered photographs and just sometimes solve a puzzle... those are games... and all David Cage games are part of that genre... it may be not perfect, but hey, it's not like you attack 90% of games because it is in first person and have a gun somewhere on screen, right? a HUGE quality of David Cage games is that you do not play as a psychotic Sociopath who believes killing people is good if you have a very lateral reason to do so...
Nice video. Quantic Dream seems to be a pretty a hit or miss developer. Personally, I enjoyed Heavy Rain because of how choices would impact the story in a real way. That legitimized it being in a game format. Beyond Two Souls took out everything Heavy Rain did right and dropped the ball completely. It's annoying how most developers, including Quantic Dream itself, misunderstands what made Heavy Rain an intriguing and enjoyable experience, so now we get a lot of pretty games that want to tell a story, have garbage gameplay, and no choice. I guess I'm mainly thinking of the Order 1886, actually.
I don't really like David Cage's games, and find his stories only good for unintentional humor. But, I can see why someone else would like Heavy Rain. There are elements, possibilities of the Quantic games that are compelling, and I am curious why they keep falling so short as a whole. I would be very interested if HyperBitHero or someone else analyzed why Two Souls was so messy and melodramatic, or why Indigo Prophecy languished in development hell and lost much of its bizarre plot, or what the hell happened with Omikron. Cage's work is a good fit for this. And, this video was really interesting. Hyper reminds the audience that cut or lost content from media is more intriguing to us, because we can't really experience it; we don't really consider how it might have failed. That, it might be rightfully dropped. But, to me, it seems like Heavy Rain would have been improved, even if the rest of the writing remained unchanged. This is due to the summary given in the video. I feel most of the cut elements are vital, as they mainly center on characters' motivations. And, on this sort of fated connection between the Killer and the father of his victim. A strange empathy that further supports Ethan's feelings of self-doubt and severe trauma, while also giving him prophetic insight that drives him further into the story. The cuts were made without any change to the surrounding material, so their absence is very prominent (except for the preparing-for-school sequence). Nothing makes up for this removal of context. We learn less about the formative experiences of the other characters, and our protagonist feels much more coincidental to the game's story. He loses connection to it. I guess I find stories of people trying and failing compelling, so Lost in Concept works for my tastes.
WorldsFattestRobot I totally agree. I think their paranormal plot would've made the game a whole lot more coherent and intriguing, and quite frankly I don't think it's nearly as fantastical as anything else Quantic Dream made. I think it would be like how most Twilight Zone episodes feel very realistic and grounded in reality while also having one element that is supernatural. In fact, the whole game would almost have a Twilight Zone vibe with the relatively subtle dream sequences and connection, which I would totally dig. I mean, seriously, it's not nearly as far fetched as using a Sega Dreamcast to body swap.
cheezburgerforcats Yes; the paranormal version is the more consistent one of Heavy Rain's story. And it would still be the most grounded out of Quantic Dream's games. Others in the comments, like Mr. Misellus, have said that Heavy Rain was improved with the removal of the supernatural, and I would agree with them if the base story of Heavy Rain was rewritten. Like, ew275x thought that the killer reveal should be earlier, to change the player's relationship with the controllable villain. I feel that the plot would have been greatly improved if it focused more on Ethan's grief and mental issues. You know, instead of having him deal with a Hollywood sociopath with elaborate murder methods and twenty step plans (each step more philosophical than the last.) Hell, they could have no killer, just have him deal with a kidnapping of his surviving son. Ethan is the heart of Heavy Rain and he is flat as hell. If Madison is in the story, she needs to be elevated beyond a falsely assertive character that mainly gets menaced. She feels like a list of Cage's fetishes that eats up time, not a reporter with PTSD. Nahman Jayden could drop the sci-fi tech and not lose anything of value. He needs to either be dialed down and given more believable relationships with his partners and family and crooks, or dialed up into some swaggering noir parody collapsing under the sheer mass of his life's issues. Shelby needs to be completely rewritten. He could be a killer whose identity we learn about early on; one with a more believable motivation than reenacting his angelic brother drowning with an origami figure. Or, he could be written as we see him for most of the released game, as a detective that is not secretly the killer all along. Cage takes a lot of ques from movies, as he tries to design truly cinematic games. But I feel that he learns exactly the wrong lessons from movies, especially in writing. Heavy Rain could be something good if it didn't throw in set-pieces and character archetypes from movies he liked. Like, when he writes a "serial killer", he thinks "Seven", "Saw", "Silence of the Lambs". He draws so heavily on film, it feels like he does no other research. Like, he was somehow raised on movies in a cell for his childhood (a rare conditioning known as the Kojima Technique in secret gaming lore). But unlike Kojima, he doesn't seem to understand gameplay mechanics and stage design and other such things. He has no taste for them. It's strangely tragic; he is a man who loves story-focused games, but doesn't know how to make either stories or games. David Cage could be the game industry's Ed Wood, if he was less successful and more charming.
Awesome use of the Tokyo theme from SMT IV at the end. That is one of my favorite games of all time. I'd love it if you did a your next favorite on it!
There is still the plot hole of anything involving Shelby's Thoughts and motivations throughout the game to make a cheap twist. I dunno finding who the killer is 1 or 2 hours into the game and helping him get rid of evidence would be a great twist instead of forcing a Shyamalan styled twist. (Also that Tech demo and the game is general is just underwhelming in 2015.) Why did Quantic Dream not have enough funding for the Move and DLC? Wasn't that the point of partnering with Sony?
I've wrote this and just now realized that I'm replying to a 6 year old comment. Oh well, I'm still going to post my response. The funding wasn't the issue. QD wanted to move on to other projects. David Cage has said so himself in a Reddit interview shortly after Detroit was released. I suppose working on the move edition of the game they realized how much time and resources was required so they scraped the plans for 3 more DLC packs and moved onto Beyond.
I really liked this game as is, but seeing what got cut, now I'm kind of pissed off. Kind of really pissed off especially to hear the Sony was more worried about the future of PS Move than games getting fleshed out. To this day, I have never given a shit about PS Move anyway.
Man, Heavy Rain. Remember all the insane hype it got when it was being released? How it was being called revolutionary? I guess in a weird way it was, it's the first game I remember that really started that trend of "walking simulators" or "interactive movies" as they often get called, like Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Among The Sleep, The Order (though the Order shamelessly pretended it was an actual game). I think the only game that's REALLY gotten it right, and it's taken a while to get there, is Until Dawn. Although it is more movie than game, they've finally found this really appropriate area where choice FINALLY deciding the game for you keeps you on your toes, which was an issue The Walking Dead had (as enjoyable as it was). It's weird how a "genre" (if you can even call it that) which David Cage sort of pioneered way back when he made Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy has now superseded him. Not to mention a lot of these post-Heavy Rain walking simulators have had better written stories, as well (let's be honest).
I always wondered what the meaning behind Ethan's black outs were (I always just thought that it was just poor writing, well I guess it kind of is, but still), as well as what happened to the rest of the DLC stories, so thanks for making this video, I feel like I have a bit more closure now.
Blane Owen I always assumed it was due to the fact that his son had just fucking died 2 years ago, he was hit by a car, still feels guilty about it, divorced by his wife, and has now just lost his other son. But no, Supernatural elements make more sense right? Fuck
Dis rally gewd m8 u did gr8 job here. I really didn't get why he blamed himself at all, but you're right that the water scenes totally make it believable.
It was a grave mistake canceling the DLC in favor of some pointless Move support. This game along with Beyond: Two Souls are pretty amazing, but it would be nice to add some DLC or re-release them as a director's cut.
Wow, a game-related content creator on youtube i can take seriously !? Your videos are really well-researched and executed. format is nice as well. I watched this and the "Metal Gear Rising lost in concept" video. well done!
Yeah, I don't play video games at all but I still watch HBH's videos because they're very well researched and produced and fill a largely ignored "informative/analytical" niche in the video game content genre on TH-cam. It's a shame he doesn't post more often.
Makes me wanna go back & watch those cut clips online as they should have appeared in the game. I guess that could be considered Heavy Rain, UNCUT Edition. The game would still have a few plot holes & questionable writing choices, but this really does help me appreciate it more. I still liked it though as an early PS3 title with cheesy writing & some genuinely tense moments [plus it actually had consequence, unlike Beyond Two Sucks]. Thanks again, BIT - you always make what I wanna see next.
Oh god yes a new HyperBitHero video :D. And man the game makes soooo much more sense now. It will now always have those supernatural scenes in it for me.
I'm so glad they got rid of any planned supernatural elements in Heavy Rain. Ethan's delusions make sense because he is aware of the Origami Killer and the methods used on the victims (from news), and his mind is trying to make sense of where his son is and how this all fits together.
I think even if they had these the connection thing going, there would have to be a clear sign that the game is going to have an element like that from the very beginning of the game. I never played B:TS but I think I saw some comments or videos complaining that the supernatural element just came outta nowhere...? IMO, in a story, you gotta set up a "contract" in the beginning to establish what kinds of elements you're gonna see later on-- like the quick time events tutorial.Because of the tutorial, you knew you would use quick time events later.
Thanks for making this video. I did wonder if Heavy rain was supposed to have a supernatural element because Fahrenheit and Beyond:TS both have supernatural stuff and David cage seems to love that stuff. Its a shame that they had to cut it all out, I heard rumors of a PS4 remastered version, hopefully they can include it in that version if it is true.
This game makes so much more sense now after watch this video although we may never get a remake with the excluded scenes and content at least now I can imagine the scenes in my head and have the story make more sense so thank you HyperBitHero
I remember I played this game on my tenth birthday and at the time this was mind blowing and different to me. But now seeing this I'm a little disappointed.
That's all good and all but imagine if there was a gameplay backing up the Narrative aspect. Yeah, some sort of mechanics that enables you to switch between the four characters, in an adventure point and click style, with puzzles and multi-optional dialogues, a record of all your conversations to look for clues, and maybe some QTE's too spice up certain parts of the game. David Cage may know how to write intriguing stories but in the end we're playing a video game, tell the story through the gameplay, that's the whole point.
I wish they wouldn't cut out these elements and DLC. The story of the game makes less sense without them and in a story driven game like that it's pretty important for the story to work.
I can explain the scar on Norman's face. Leon Ockenden had dated in his own words a 'psycho bitch ex-girlfriend' who scratched his face and David just included in in the facial mapping.
I wondered why he suspected himself. But I totally thought there was an unexplained supernatural element to the final game and they just weren't being blatant about it (which I guess is technically true).
When I first played the game, I had assumed the blackouts were explained at the train station. My presumption was all those previous blackouts were Ethan chasing after his son, reliving the experience while in an altered state of consciousness. Of course, that wouldn't explain anything else, but it seemed like a good enough explanation at the time. After playing Beyond: Two Souls recently, I honestly think Quantic Dream has taken a step backward as a game developer with less control and the AAA practice of graphics as a substitute for quality.
I'm not sure if this counts as a Lost In Concept topic but I like your style of going over game flaws and strengths. I'd like to see you tackle the Assassin's Creed franchise, from the beginning to how it is currently. It used to be a very story-driven, mysterious series, unique, and ahead of its time, but now it's almost as repetitive as CoD. I think the most notable sign of how it's changed are the trailers. In the past they were all cinematic and dramatic, usually stuck to one long epic scene, but now they transition with end-game footage fighting, jump-cuts, and modern music to make it look teh edgy. I have more I could say but I think you'd make a much better description of it all. It's up to you of course but I'd really appreciate this being considered. Regardless I am enjoying your content and I'm excited to see what you post next.
The problem is that it would be supernatural. I think what QD meant when they said it was "too complicated and added nothing to the story" is that once you look into the root cause of everything there simply isn't one if the cause is supernatural. Sure you can fill in the holes and say "now I understand why Ethan wakes up at the square" if there's a supernatural bond between him and Shelby... but at the end of the day, where would this come from? Would it have been explained even if it was in the plot? I look no further than to Indigo Prophecy or Beyond Two Souls which both are known for having interesting premises but then go batshit, nonesense, insane the further the plot thickens. Why? Because: SUPERNATURAL. I also think, too many people overrate coherence... I'm not arguing Heavy Rain is fine with all the red herrings and disjointed scenes but I think the change was for the better in this case.
i see, to be honest i played the game and every time the blackouts ocurred i associated them with something happening to the kidnaped kids, if they actually showed the conection to scott in the begining of the game, players would simply jump to the conclusion he is the killer thus killing the mistery, now with the normal story until the very last moment i never suspected of scott, i was really thinking it was either ethan or someone else, the most crazy deceiving scene was the one in manfred's shop but in the end everyhing made sense, this so called "flooding" supernatural bits would simply be more "eye candy" to me as the story works perfectly fine as it is
Nah i prefer it the way it is, yeah they should`ve rewritten those now incoherent parts of the story, but I stopped thinking ethan was a possible suspect precisely BECAUSE I felt there were TOO many hints pointing at him being the origami killer, those cut scenes would have been EVEN MORE obviously fake directions and therefore unnesesary. Also, unless it fits REALLY well into the plot, I dislike supernatural scenes in murder mysteries, even if they would potentially make the story more coherent, it makes the mystery in itself unfair
Don't know anything about the game's development but they must've been real rushed to cut out a major part of the story like that. They didn't even bother adding a replacement explanation for Ethan's blackouts and how he ended up in Carnaby st. Amazing how you actually have to see the deleted scenes to gain some context. I wish Madison's chapter made it into the final version, I feel like it might be able to explain some plot holes like how she even can get ahold of Norman's phone number. We don't know where she work and what kind of information she has at her disposal. There's also lack of motive for her to be chasing this story the way she did. She ends up just kinda tagging along in the story without those kinds of background info. The shelby killing his mom part and shaun going to school I can understand why they decided to cut. But even then the bit where Shaun complained about being late while in the park feels weird to me. After knowing about the removed scene I wonder if it was actually a consequence of a failed attempt to take Shaun to school on time?
Ethan could still technically have blackouts without the supernatural element, it would just involve removing all of them except for the one in the park, and just explain it as "he fainted through an anxiety attack of sorts which gave the killer an opportunity to kidnap Shaun". Still, I don't know how you could really keep the red herring of Ethan being the killer without that in place. It's still somewhat of a mess, but I love the game regardless and it's personally my favourite of David Cage's work.
Also, the Move controls actually work much better with this game than the traditional controls (and my first playthrough was with traditional controls).
Considering these are the guys who made Indigo Prophecy five years before, why did they expect the audience to take Heavy Rain more seriously? Oh, great video, btw. Had I not been spoiled of it, and if they kept the supernatural stuff intact (I thought that'd be pretty cool), I would have tried it.
I mean, when I played the game no one spoiled it for me so I also thought Ethan might be the killer and it was super intense. I think they made the right call only if you look back on this game through your first play through
soooo thats why those black out scenes turned out to be plot holes!
Hattori Hanzo Just Cage working his magic!
HyperBitHero i feel like I got closure, now I can sell this game :')
HyperBitHero Well, David Cage is pretty much the M. Night Shyamalan of gaming industry...
Zero The Bloodedge i think that would be peter molineux. at least he did a few good games before going bad
Hey, is that the script over there?!
I would LOVE to see the Norman Jayden backstory
I'm late but *Nahman Jaydenn
Miya EFF BEE AI
INVESGATEN TEH CASE OF DEE ORUGAMEE KILLUH
I'd like to see where he got the scar, I know the actor got a scratch from an ex girlfriend and it just showed up in the render but I'd like to see what they'd have done with it.
Also more info on whether it was withdrawal or ari causing him so much pain
Miya funny af I always pronounce his name like that
They removed the paranormal stuff because it was too convoluted? WHAT ABOUT BEYOND 2 SOULS AND INDIGO PROPHECY? HUH?
+Otter In A Can Arguably the lack of dumb paranormal subplot made Heavy Rain a better game in comparison to other David Cage games. Not that it wasn't so hard to pull off in the first place, considering the quality bar of his games.
nuttex True... I still dislike the game, and maybe some of the paranormal stuff would have been interesting (and explained the plot better, I mean seriously, he left in the weird passing out sub-plot with no explanation.) but with David Cage's reputation, that wouldn't have helped much.
+Otter In A Can There was no time.
+SammEater ... Was their ever any time for any of his games?
He was probably trying to find the script he lost.
I think they should've left all this shit in. It sounds MUCH better. And the more Heavy Rain, the better. In my opinion.
yeah it would have been but i think part of why they didn't was because they simply didn't have enough funding, at least for the chronicles anyway. Ethan's visions would have filled in a very big plot hole of this game, and since all it is is visions i think it's not too big of a supernatural element to make the game seem too unrealistic, they definitely could've kept it
Nah, I think keeping it realistic felt way better.
It really felt like it could be real. The other stuff would have been immersion breaking for me
I also had a *_major_* gripe with Ethan's blackouts since they really just go nowhere. When everyone just accepts that Ethan is the Origami Killer, I found myself asking *"But why tho?"*
Because there's really nothing to go on, aside from Ethan going on these weird benders and trying to figure out why.
And now, *_I kinda WISH_* they kept this splash of the supernatural. I personally don't see it being out of place, so long as the explanation behind it was *You got hit by a car*.
Shit like that pretty much shakes the bookshelf that is your brain anyway.
It seems like every time David Cage tries to do something to be more realistic or compelling, he only ends up shooting himself in the foot.
Well, he did good with Detroit
Same! I was never convinced Ethan was the killer. The explained blackouts make the entire game more interesting (even if it’s kinda silly) because you’d be wondering, IS this guy actually fighting himself?
i think rhe police were desperate to find a killer so they could get the press off their backs and not risk the mayors election so they jumped at the first opportunity to blame it on some mentally unstable divorcee
The womans face in the original tech demo is downright creepy, lol. But impressive for the time.
tipoomaster Lauren Winther
*Winter
I thought it was creepy for the time and I was loving the facial animation in Half-Life 2, Uncharted, Mafia 2, and L.A. Noire.
Definitely impressive, but still creeped me out when AI saw it. Uncanny valley for sure.
I just finished the game and wondered why there were some massive plot holes, now I know why.
despite the fact that super natural shit ruins cage's other games, it seems like it would make this game better.
I'm pretty sure the "super natural shit" only serves to mask its faults, but whatever. Can't please everyone.
It would made some plot holes make sense tbh, Ethan randomly appearing where Scott’s brother died is so random
Wow the one time a supernatual element would have been justified in a David Cage game it gets removed. A lot of my issues with the story would have been solved if they kept the dreams and the supernatural elements in (the blackouts just left major plot holes). Hell I would have been more okay with Shelby being the Origami Killer if they kept a lot of this stuff in because in the actual game I didn't buy it at all.
***** A supernatural angle in the story is fine as long as it's built into the story and is written properly. While Heavy Rain still would have had massive writing issues with the supernatural parts numerous plot holes would be filled.
The problem with David Cage games is that the supernatural angle usually has nothing to do with anything and just happens. If Heavy Rain was designed with Shelby and Ethan having a supernatural link then that works. If the story was built with that as the core then it could have been good. As long as it was consistent.
It's the trope Magic A is Magic A. As long as the non realistic elements are consistent and explained then they're fine. If the blackouts were explained by Ethan's connection to Shelby then that's a justifiable plot element. But by removing the connection everything comes off as super random and unexplained.
coolman229 what plot hole?
Now I get why Ethan had a fecking Origami figure.....fucking major plot hole
Agent Nahmin Jayden FBI
Shugo Takahashi Not gonna lie, in this specific case I smiled. =3
We gattah captcha tha auraghamee killah!
Action Points Nahman, It's Norman.
*nahman jaydoon from da affbeeaii*
You know, thinking about it now. I think Nahmen/Norman was implied to have been addicted to those ARI glasses he loves to use and that Triptocaine was to mitigate the side effects. The ball minigame conveys extensive use and in the final sequence using the thing you can die with your eyes bleeding and such. The butler also should have known what Triptocaine was and not be discreet with it when he referred to it as "You Know What", unless saying what it actually was, ARI, would have upset Norman.
Just a theory that seems to be thrown around a lot, but after watching a let's play of it I can't help but think this is the case. Maybe that DLC would have been the curveball which would confirm the above. Who knows at this point...
I never believed the butler was referring to the Tripto, but to the ARI. Which is why at the end of the game, when I was given the option to "Give up" on the case instead of using the ARI to solve it, I just gave up, thinking that I would die if I solved it. But that doesn't happen either :S
@@RuberDildo Well, he does die if solving takes you too long.
Wow, I never knew that. The game makes so much more sense with those plot elements
Wait, there were Madison chapters that didn't invole rape?
David Cage is a strange and sexually frustrated man
Hyper Mystic Fox wut
ZockerKauz
Ikr she had rapist and molesters picking fights with her left and right it was crazy
David Cage: "visions and psychic links are too supernatural, they stretch believability"
*procedes to put ghosts and demon monsters into his next game*
WHAT?!
Well yeah, it’s a different game entirely, and most people say heavy rain is better. So it makes sense.
@@itskelvinn mmm... no it doesn't
@@itskelvinn It doesn't, I've never owned any PS so I played all Quantic Dream games only now after steam release. Imagine making that large plot hole that after completing Heavy Rain I had to google wtf is with Ethan then and why did he have origami after blackouts or why exactly did he woke up at the area where an event that had created an Origami Killer took place (and end up watching this vid). Imagine having Beyond look more logical and real despite it is Sci Fi, while Heavy Rain has that much stuff that makes totally no sense (besides already mentioned scenes, that scene and shooting in Kramer's manor - wtf was that circus for? And why did Shelby keep asking "who is the origami killer" before killing Kramer? It seems that this scene was made solely with a purpose to fool the player only, since nobody else is there and Kramer has no evidences against Shelby. I get it that Shelby visited every victim's parent to hide evidences, but this scene is beyond dumb, as if an attempt to fool the player specifically) and those story incoherences are unforgivable for Detective Thriller. Now after watching those removed scenes in YT it all makes total sence and it should have stayed that way. Even Beyond Two Souls' original (mixed up) story is way more logical than orginial heavy rain's story with those cut out scenes
*Makes Sci Fi game which is based entirely on assumptions of what the future could be*
@@magentapurpleyap5566 Well, to be fair, Detroit was awesome.
The blackouts kinda still made sense to me. I just thought Ethan had PTSD from the accident (having panic attacks in crowds/ flashbacks/ blacking out) The origami in his hand is what set me off. As for the flashbacks of drowning bodies- I always thought the origami killer had a REALLY bad impact on him. Mainly because he had just lost one son and he felt guilty on how many others were losing children as well... or maybe he was afraid his next son would be a victim. Which he was.
I'm glad any supernatural elements were removed. It made sense to me that Ethan was trying to piece together what he read from the news and his son's disappearance along with the origami killer leaving origami for Ethan to find.
Agreed. I get some of the issues with the blackouts but they're not absurd. The guy was in a coma; not surprising he'd have cognitive issues.
*Scroll down comments*
*No JASON*
JASOOOOOON JASOOOOOON
I still don't get how Jason died if Ethan was closer to the car's tire
@@montaserajlony To this day, I still haven't got it. Maybe, Jason hit the cement from the road so hard, or probably magic shit.
SHAWN!!!
The matrix fights and the under water secret chinese base portal were, among other things, just fine but psychic/psychotic/thematicallyappropriatesupernatural elements bringing together a murder mystery was over the top?
"IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE."
"IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE."
@@joaquizzletwizzlestill doesn't make sense?
Your profile picture amplifies that comment in such a perfect way.
SHAAAAAUUUUUN!
EDIT:
Jesus, that typing at 5:09
Still better than this:
th-cam.com/video/zuK1_tqn1W4/w-d-xo.html
So I recently played the PS4 version of Heavy Rain (literally finished it a few days ago), and I gotta be honest - I probably would've liked the story more if the Supernatural elements were present, if only to make the blackouts actually make some sort of sense, not to mention that it would make Ethan's suspicions of himself seem logical.
Overall, I still liked the game. Even if it's filled with narmy voice acting, plot holes, terrible child characters and Madison constantly under threat of being raped or killed, it was clearly made with passion for the project. I personally don't think Cage is a _bad_ developer, he just needs to lose some of his ego. Fingers crossed he's learned his lesson from the panning Beyond got and Detroit Become Human turns out okay.
He's not the only writer on the project so chances are it'll be better.
Chewi Detroit:BH is much better imo lol.
Chewi you know people black out in real life without supernatural elements. I don't see how they don't make sense.
The blackouts alone would be fine for adding tension, but the supernatural connection to Shelby seems pretty stupid.
I don't see the point with Madison being threatened in the game like all the other characters a bad thing
It'd be cool if they put those scenes back into for the PS4 port.
there is a ps4 port?
shadowthehedghog79 Supposedly. Don't think they've mentioned it since it was announced.
+The4thSnake yeah it's confirmed. A bundle with both Heavy Rain and Beyond 2 Souls, all we're waiting for is the release date
+Mick Ortega I think we should get ready for the real reveal tomorrow at Paris Games Week.
Yup, can't wait. I never played Beyond Two Souls in ps3, so I'm in for this.
Holy shit. I had no idea these scenes were removed. This makes a LOT of sense. I loved Heavy Rain. Maybe even a little more than I loved Fahrenheit. I do think these removed scenes would have been really cool to have left in. I can REALLY see why they removed them though. David Cage is insane. I love him but he's insane. They must have wanted to be taken more seriously for Heavy Rain. The blackouts make a lot more sense now. Thanks for this video. Definitely going to subscribe.
I would have loved to play them though, mainly because the game isn't as fun without them.
This game is uncanny valley as fuck. The main character's face looks unnatural and its like he never blinks
Ethan looks okay but the rest look like dolls
I want to see quantum dream make a realistic game about war, showing how dark and hard it is and how much the choices can make an impact.
Quantic*
WW or the new game with Kara?
That would be so cool
You probably already know it but Spec Ops: The Line might be for you :)
If you don't care what setting the war is in, the original Drakengard might be for you
I think the story would've been much better if Ethan really was schritzophronic and the guilty part of his conscience developed into a second personality. You wouldn't need the supernatural scenes for that, but rewriting and different scenes all the same. I agree tho that if their aim was for it just to be a red herring to Shelbey, the water scenes would've made it better (even the Japanese cover was Ethan under water, which was rad). But in my opinion the story would've been much better overall without the Shelbey twist.
That's not what schizophrenia is
AAARGH! Great video! That's so frustrating that they left that out, because I remember thinking "sooooo, what was the deal with the blackouts?" After I finished my first playthrough.
Antony Watkins because no one in real life has blackouts right?
@@katiebayliss9887 u dumb af
@@chrisprilloisebola oh wow Mr. Ebola, your opinion is dully noted
@@katiebayliss9887 thanks Bayliss for replying, didn't think you would
@@chrisprilloisebola of course, I always want to do my part.
I heard the black outs were actually not that fun to play and gave away the identity of the killer so thats why they were removed.
Anyone notice the similarities of "The Casting", "Kara", and "Dark Sorcerer"? They all feature a character talking to someone on the other side of the camera. I wonder if they will try something different next time.
Come to think of it, how many developers actually release tech demos?
Heavy Rain is one of those games that convinced me to buy a ps3, unfortunately by the time i got it i had watched the entire playthrough, but i still remember it as an interesting experience. When i heard about the supernatural elements being left out, i was confused. confused to why they had left them out to begin with. Everything made sense once this was revealed and i preffer thinking about the game this way. I kinda have to think about the game this way since Ethan still claims to have seen the dead children...
On one hand, it would have been pretty weird for a serial killer like Scott to just randomly create a psychic bond with a target, but on the other hand, there's no denying that they could have easily tweaked Ethan's blackouts to not seem so unnatural and near magical. If anything, he still could have come off as possibly being a killer, even almost like a copycat, but as it is, it certainly did feel like a huge tie was missing from the game to explain it. Of course, all but Jayden had their quirks vanish early on into the game. Madison's insomnia is never a factor after she has that nightmare, Ethan doesn't black out once during the trials, and Scott's asthma never once affects him. The last one is especially strange as you'd think some of the shit Scott goes through would have him winded, like nearly DROWNING in his own car.
As for the DLC, it's a real shame they never did more chronicles, I'd have loved to see Jayden's origins, and it would have been interesting to see how Scott turns into a murderer. Maybe he decided to adopt a similar method to another killer while he was still a cop.
Can't imagine what Ethan would have been up to, jack shit if his DLC was before the game's prologue, and likely fuckall if it was in the 2-year gap after Jason's death.
Somehow I still doubt keeping the supernatural stuff in the game would have made the game good.
Calvin_Coolage lol
Of course it wouldn't, it would have made the story worse because it makes no logical sense at all for Shelby to be able to control Ethan at random to force him to commit murder if Ethan's completely unable to do the same. It's not like Shelby has more practice at controlling a mind or something, he'd just be randomly able to control him because 'evil', which is completely stupid.
It's better to have weird unanswered holes in the plot than to have a specifically stated plot point that SPECIFICALLY creates plotholes while undermining the realistic and grounded tone of the game.
They kept supernatural stuff in Fahrenheit and well.... lets say _Heavy Rain is an improvement^^
Man, this explains...A LOT.
Oh no I made the badgame.
I am not surprised that they did this. its a david cage game. the dog will always eat the script, always.
Someone's been playing Shin Megami.
Don't diss the over world theme of SMT IV
El Mooo Megaten.
actually SHAUUUUUUNNNNNNN MEGAMI
I'm really glad I watched this. Ethan waking up with the origami figure in his hand has always really bothered me. At least now I know why. Poor show Quantic...
The scar on Norman's face wasn't deliberately added by the game visual effects artists, it was simply a real cut on the actor's face when he went in to do his face capture photography. A bitch of an ex girlfriend used to enjoy attacking him and she did before these images of his face were taken.
Source: th-cam.com/video/os9550YvRuU/w-d-xo.html
Almost 10 years later i'm still butthurt we never got the DLC.
There is one, search it up, it was on the ps4 version
I played it on PS3 the day it came out xD
me as well lol
@@carrymeohio I forgot about this comment. Now I'm gonna get pissed all over again, lmao.
I see all this hate for David Cage, with some people calling him the M Night of gaming. I have to say... really? I don't think Heavy Rain had the best story, but I still think it holds up nicely. Yeah the supernatural parts were removed, but even with those not being there it's not really that big of a plothole compared to movies, and especially other games.
Now I don't know anything about his other games outside of watching SOME of Beyond Two Souls (which I found okay I suppose), but I don't get how Heavy Rain is such a poor game, at least when it comes to story.
I think there are a few good individual moments, but I don't think they add up and contribute to the whole very well. Also, I just can't get over the fact that the game has a mechanic that hears the thoughts of the character, even though one particular character was thinking things he wouldn't be thinking, b/c of spoilers.
tbh,i think its interesting that they removed the supernatural elements,it is more grounded in reality now,and i thought that ethan was experiencing blackouts because he developed ptsd/depersonalization disorder. i think it makes sense,even with him having the origami figures after the blackouts,if he was suffering from one of those mental disorders and blacking out,he could probably do things during that time that he normally woulndt do/know how to do. Much like people with DID.
The Director's Cut should've included all of this.
Yea. Wouldnt that be the actual directors cut
Okay so Heavy Rain was supposed to be Silent Hill Downpour before Downpour was even an idea.
So the game was supposed to be shitty since the beginning, that's good to know.Nah, tbh, Heavy Rain might be dumb but it's, imo, the best out of Farenheit and Beyond Two Souls.
Chips Light I consider Heavy Rain to be sort of a guilty pleasure type game. There is so much wrong with it, but I can still enjoy the interesting things it tries to pull off. Beyond is just so weird and boring.
HyperBitHero
It's the same for me with Farenheit in some way. Farenheit is so stupid and ridiculous to me that I just stop taking it seriously and just start having fun whenever I play it or watch a video of it (shoutout to 2BF Plays), unlike Beyoned Two Souls that tries so hard to be a "cinematic experience" that it just crumbles due to all its plot holes and dumb ideas.
The more I watched the video, the more I thought that Heavy Rain could have, at least, become a decent game and a rather enjoyable experience. Sure, it wouldn't be like Silent Hill 2 were the possible meanings would be really smart or symbolic, but it would be fresh enough to put the entire plot on solid fundation.
In the end, David Cage was dumb, as usual.
HyperBitHero Chips Light
can you please finally DEFINE what's so bad in heavy rain? I have more than 20 years of experience in gaming and I do not see it as a bad game...
I mean, the only real "errors" in Heavy Rain I keep hearing about is that it's not a shooting gallery and supposedly "bad" story, that is better than most other videogame IDIOTIC plot...
same with Beyond.
1r0zz When a game is ALL story and can't even get that much together, it's fucked itself. I don't give a shit if a game is easy or hard or has lots of guns with shooting things. If the game accomplishes what it sets out to do, it's fine in my book. I love the concept of a game like Heavy Rain, and Walking Dead pulled it off fantastically. But Heavy Rain fails at it's own concept because it sets out to be a tense, emotional well-thought out story and it simply doesn't accomplish any of that. It's not the worst game ever, hell Beyond Two Souls is leagues worse, but again, it's all story and the story is poorly written crap. But seriously, don't get me fucking started on Beyond Two Souls.
FishStickOnAStick
Beyond two souls and Heavy Rain have better stories, more adult stories and surely better written than Bioshock infinite or DmC(brit reboot) or quite a lot of other games...
and both have emotional stories, not much original or much incredibly written, but they are more original than, again, most games out there.
now you tell me that "Walking Dead" pulled it off better. how so?
WHAT pulled off better? there are only 4 or 5 decently written character, and only in some part of the first series, the second series is just flatulence.
of those 4 or 5 characters are only decent because of the very forced SITUATIONS written around them. it's a lot more forced and fake than anything written in beyond, and many times it have a terribly obvious outcome (like the little girl cannot die or get mangled or change too much in appearance...)
and let's not dwell in acting and direction of the game...
now. of course you do not know the existance of a genre called GRAPHIC ADVENTURE. there are games that you simply move between 360 pre rendered photographs and just sometimes solve a puzzle... those are games...
and all David Cage games are part of that genre... it may be not perfect, but hey, it's not like you attack 90% of games because it is in first person and have a gun somewhere on screen, right?
a HUGE quality of David Cage games is that you do not play as a psychotic Sociopath who believes killing people is good if you have a very lateral reason to do so...
That was such a great game. I think the decision was right, even if it left some aspects of the story unexplained.
Norman got his scar because of the actor getting his face scanned in the game. He claimed he got it from an ex girlfriend who was a crazy bitch.
Nice video. Quantic Dream seems to be a pretty a hit or miss developer. Personally, I enjoyed Heavy Rain because of how choices would impact the story in a real way. That legitimized it being in a game format. Beyond Two Souls took out everything Heavy Rain did right and dropped the ball completely. It's annoying how most developers, including Quantic Dream itself, misunderstands what made Heavy Rain an intriguing and enjoyable experience, so now we get a lot of pretty games that want to tell a story, have garbage gameplay, and no choice. I guess I'm mainly thinking of the Order 1886, actually.
I don't really like David Cage's games, and find his stories only good for unintentional humor. But, I can see why someone else would like Heavy Rain.
There are elements, possibilities of the Quantic games that are compelling, and I am curious why they keep falling so short as a whole.
I would be very interested if HyperBitHero or someone else analyzed why Two Souls was so messy and melodramatic, or why Indigo Prophecy languished in development hell and lost much of its bizarre plot, or what the hell happened with Omikron. Cage's work is a good fit for this.
And, this video was really interesting. Hyper reminds the audience that cut or lost content from media is more intriguing to us, because we can't really experience it; we don't really consider how it might have failed.
That, it might be rightfully dropped.
But, to me, it seems like Heavy Rain would have been improved, even if the rest of the writing remained unchanged. This is due to the summary given in the video.
I feel most of the cut elements are vital, as they mainly center on characters' motivations. And, on this sort of fated connection between the Killer and the father of his victim. A strange empathy that further supports Ethan's feelings of self-doubt and severe trauma, while also giving him prophetic insight that drives him further into the story.
The cuts were made without any change to the surrounding material, so their absence is very prominent (except for the preparing-for-school sequence).
Nothing makes up for this removal of context. We learn less about the formative experiences of the other characters, and our protagonist feels much more coincidental to the game's story. He loses connection to it.
I guess I find stories of people trying and failing compelling, so Lost in Concept works for my tastes.
I played Heavy Rain despite having seen a playthrough of it. I bought Beyond two Souls and stopped playing it shortly...
WorldsFattestRobot I totally agree. I think their paranormal plot would've made the game a whole lot more coherent and intriguing, and quite frankly I don't think it's nearly as fantastical as anything else Quantic Dream made. I think it would be like how most Twilight Zone episodes feel very realistic and grounded in reality while also having one element that is supernatural. In fact, the whole game would almost have a Twilight Zone vibe with the relatively subtle dream sequences and connection, which I would totally dig. I mean, seriously, it's not nearly as far fetched as using a Sega Dreamcast to body swap.
cheezburgerforcats
Yes; the paranormal version is the more consistent one of Heavy Rain's story. And it would still be the most grounded out of Quantic Dream's games. Others in the comments, like Mr. Misellus, have said that Heavy Rain was improved with the removal of the supernatural, and I would agree with them if the base story of Heavy Rain was rewritten. Like, ew275x thought that the killer reveal should be earlier, to change the player's relationship with the controllable villain.
I feel that the plot would have been greatly improved if it focused more on Ethan's grief and mental issues. You know, instead of having him deal with a Hollywood sociopath with elaborate murder methods and twenty step plans (each step more philosophical than the last.) Hell, they could have no killer, just have him deal with a kidnapping of his surviving son. Ethan is the heart of Heavy Rain and he is flat as hell.
If Madison is in the story, she needs to be elevated beyond a falsely assertive character that mainly gets menaced. She feels like a list of Cage's fetishes that eats up time, not a reporter with PTSD.
Nahman Jayden could drop the sci-fi tech and not lose anything of value. He needs to either be dialed down and given more believable relationships with his partners and family and crooks, or dialed up into some swaggering noir parody collapsing under the sheer mass of his life's issues.
Shelby needs to be completely rewritten. He could be a killer whose identity we learn about early on; one with a more believable motivation than reenacting his angelic brother drowning with an origami figure.
Or, he could be written as we see him for most of the released game, as a detective that is not secretly the killer all along.
Cage takes a lot of ques from movies, as he tries to design truly cinematic games. But I feel that he learns exactly the wrong lessons from movies, especially in writing. Heavy Rain could be something good if it didn't throw in set-pieces and character archetypes from movies he liked.
Like, when he writes a "serial killer", he thinks "Seven", "Saw", "Silence of the Lambs". He draws so heavily on film, it feels like he does no other research. Like, he was somehow raised on movies in a cell for his childhood (a rare conditioning known as the Kojima Technique in secret gaming lore). But unlike Kojima, he doesn't seem to understand gameplay mechanics and stage design and other such things. He has no taste for them.
It's strangely tragic; he is a man who loves story-focused games, but doesn't know how to make either stories or games.
David Cage could be the game industry's Ed Wood, if he was less successful and more charming.
WorldsFattestRobot Definitely. I kind of think of him as M. Night Shyamalan as well.
1:21 is that a lady dimitrescu figurine on the dressing table?
Awesome use of the Tokyo theme from SMT IV at the end. That is one of my favorite games of all time. I'd love it if you did a your next favorite on it!
No, nobody likes motion controls. There might be one or two people who think they like motion controls, but they're wrong.
Sorry but i enjoy games like Heavy rain
There is still the plot hole of anything involving Shelby's Thoughts and motivations throughout the game to make a cheap twist. I dunno finding who the killer is 1 or 2 hours into the game and helping him get rid of evidence would be a great twist instead of forcing a Shyamalan styled twist. (Also that Tech demo and the game is general is just underwhelming in 2015.)
Why did Quantic Dream not have enough funding for the Move and DLC? Wasn't that the point of partnering with Sony?
I've wrote this and just now realized that I'm replying to a 6 year old comment. Oh well, I'm still going to post my response.
The funding wasn't the issue. QD wanted to move on to other projects. David Cage has said so himself in a Reddit interview shortly after Detroit was released. I suppose working on the move edition of the game they realized how much time and resources was required so they scraped the plans for 3 more DLC packs and moved onto Beyond.
I really liked this game as is, but seeing what got cut, now I'm kind of pissed off. Kind of really pissed off especially to hear the Sony was more worried about the future of PS Move than games getting fleshed out. To this day, I have never given a shit about PS Move anyway.
Man, Heavy Rain. Remember all the insane hype it got when it was being released? How it was being called revolutionary? I guess in a weird way it was, it's the first game I remember that really started that trend of "walking simulators" or "interactive movies" as they often get called, like Walking Dead, Wolf Among Us, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter, Among The Sleep, The Order (though the Order shamelessly pretended it was an actual game). I think the only game that's REALLY gotten it right, and it's taken a while to get there, is Until Dawn. Although it is more movie than game, they've finally found this really appropriate area where choice FINALLY deciding the game for you keeps you on your toes, which was an issue The Walking Dead had (as enjoyable as it was).
It's weird how a "genre" (if you can even call it that) which David Cage sort of pioneered way back when he made Fahrenheit/Indigo Prophecy has now superseded him. Not to mention a lot of these post-Heavy Rain walking simulators have had better written stories, as well (let's be honest).
Darn, this game would have been so much better with the supernatural elements.
I always wondered what the meaning behind Ethan's black outs were (I always just thought that it was just poor writing, well I guess it kind of is, but still), as well as what happened to the rest of the DLC stories, so thanks for making this video, I feel like I have a bit more closure now.
Blane Owen I always assumed it was due to the fact that his son had just fucking died 2 years ago, he was hit by a car, still feels guilty about it, divorced by his wife, and has now just lost his other son. But no, Supernatural elements make more sense right? Fuck
Those supernatural scenes looked pretty cool.
Ending song is Shin Megami Tensei IV Tokyo Theme
Make fun of Move all you want, but if VR makes it big, Move will be at the center of it. Also, nobody minds having the same tech used in their DS4s.
Dis rally gewd m8 u did gr8 job here.
I really didn't get why he blamed himself at all, but you're right that the water scenes totally make it believable.
It was a grave mistake canceling the DLC in favor of some pointless Move support. This game along with Beyond: Two Souls are pretty amazing, but it would be nice to add some DLC or re-release them as a director's cut.
Wow, a game-related content creator on youtube i can take seriously !? Your videos are really well-researched and executed. format is nice as well. I watched this and the "Metal Gear Rising lost in concept" video. well done!
Yeah, I don't play video games at all but I still watch HBH's videos because they're very well researched and produced and fill a largely ignored "informative/analytical" niche in the video game content genre on TH-cam. It's a shame he doesn't post more often.
Makes me wanna go back & watch those cut clips online as they should have appeared in the game. I guess that could be considered Heavy Rain, UNCUT Edition.
The game would still have a few plot holes & questionable writing choices, but this really does help me appreciate it more. I still liked it though as an early PS3 title with cheesy writing & some genuinely tense moments [plus it actually had consequence, unlike Beyond Two Sucks].
Thanks again, BIT - you always make what I wanna see next.
Oh god yes a new HyperBitHero video :D. And man the game makes soooo much more sense now. It will now always have those supernatural scenes in it for me.
I'm so glad they got rid of any planned supernatural elements in Heavy Rain. Ethan's delusions make sense because he is aware of the Origami Killer and the methods used on the victims (from news), and his mind is trying to make sense of where his son is and how this all fits together.
Gotta love that SMT IV song at the end xD
I think even if they had these the connection thing going, there would have to be a clear sign that the game is going to have an element like that from the very beginning of the game. I never played B:TS but I think I saw some comments or videos complaining that the supernatural element just came outta nowhere...? IMO, in a story, you gotta set up a "contract" in the beginning to establish what kinds of elements you're gonna see later on-- like the quick time events tutorial.Because of the tutorial, you knew you would use quick time events later.
Thanks for making this video. I did wonder if Heavy rain was supposed to have a supernatural element because Fahrenheit and Beyond:TS both have supernatural stuff and David cage seems to love that stuff. Its a shame that they had to cut it all out, I heard rumors of a PS4 remastered version, hopefully they can include it in that version if it is true.
Got my lunch break at work timed with this being uploaded. Today is a good day
This game makes so much more sense now after watch this video although we may never get a remake with the excluded scenes and content at least now I can imagine the scenes in my head and have the story make more sense so thank you HyperBitHero
I always wondered about the child character model in the opening credits.
I remember I played this game on my tenth birthday and at the time this was mind blowing and different to me. But now seeing this I'm a little disappointed.
I was always wondering what actually happened in the park where his son disappears
This is one of the most stupid decisions I've seen someone ever make. Like EVER!!!!!!!! E-V-E-R!!!!!!!
Probably his blackouts is never coming back because in the middle of the game you don't see blackouts
i can understand the blackouts just to give an excuse to make shaun go missing. but waking up with the origami in his hand makes no damn sense
That's all good and all but imagine if there was a gameplay backing up the Narrative aspect. Yeah, some sort of mechanics that enables you to switch between the four characters, in an adventure point and click style, with puzzles and multi-optional dialogues, a record of all your conversations to look for clues, and maybe some QTE's too spice up certain parts of the game. David Cage may know how to write intriguing stories but in the end we're playing a video game, tell the story through the gameplay, that's the whole point.
to this day the only thing i can remember about this game is the track you used in this video
From on Islander to another, excellent vid! mahalo!!
God, it's like all the dumb supernatural stuff from this game became the basis of the story for Beyond: Two Souls.
I wish they wouldn't cut out these elements and DLC. The story of the game makes less sense without them and in a story driven game like that it's pretty important for the story to work.
This was amazing thank you!
Well now I finally know why the hell he had those blackouts. Stupid decision to take them out.
I can explain the scar on Norman's face. Leon Ockenden had dated in his own words a 'psycho bitch ex-girlfriend' who scratched his face and David just included in in the facial mapping.
They could of at least explained how Ethan had gotten a hold of the origami in the first couple scenes.
I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR THE ANSWER FOR 10 YEARS!!
I wondered why he suspected himself. But I totally thought there was an unexplained supernatural element to the final game and they just weren't being blatant about it (which I guess is technically true).
When I first played the game, I had assumed the blackouts were explained at the train station. My presumption was all those previous blackouts were Ethan chasing after his son, reliving the experience while in an altered state of consciousness. Of course, that wouldn't explain anything else, but it seemed like a good enough explanation at the time.
After playing Beyond: Two Souls recently, I honestly think Quantic Dream has taken a step backward as a game developer with less control and the AAA practice of graphics as a substitute for quality.
Good work. Keep it up.
I'm not sure if this counts as a Lost In Concept topic but I like your style of going over game flaws and strengths. I'd like to see you tackle the Assassin's Creed franchise, from the beginning to how it is currently.
It used to be a very story-driven, mysterious series, unique, and ahead of its time, but now it's almost as repetitive as CoD. I think the most notable sign of how it's changed are the trailers. In the past they were all cinematic and dramatic, usually stuck to one long epic scene, but now they transition with end-game footage fighting, jump-cuts, and modern music to make it look teh edgy.
I have more I could say but I think you'd make a much better description of it all. It's up to you of course but I'd really appreciate this being considered.
Regardless I am enjoying your content and I'm excited to see what you post next.
The problem is that it would be supernatural. I think what QD meant when they said it was "too complicated and added nothing to the story" is that once you look into the root cause of everything there simply isn't one if the cause is supernatural.
Sure you can fill in the holes and say "now I understand why Ethan wakes up at the square" if there's a supernatural bond between him and Shelby... but at the end of the day, where would this come from? Would it have been explained even if it was in the plot?
I look no further than to Indigo Prophecy or Beyond Two Souls which both are known for having interesting premises but then go batshit, nonesense, insane the further the plot thickens. Why? Because: SUPERNATURAL.
I also think, too many people overrate coherence... I'm not arguing Heavy Rain is fine with all the red herrings and disjointed scenes but I think the change was for the better in this case.
i see, to be honest i played the game and every time the blackouts ocurred i associated them with something happening to the kidnaped kids, if they actually showed the conection to scott in the begining of the game, players would simply jump to the conclusion he is the killer thus killing the mistery, now with the normal story until the very last moment i never suspected of scott, i was really thinking it was either ethan or someone else, the most crazy deceiving scene was the one in manfred's shop but in the end everyhing made sense, this so called "flooding" supernatural bits would simply be more "eye candy" to me as the story works perfectly fine as it is
Excellent choice of outro music. :)
Nah i prefer it the way it is, yeah they should`ve rewritten those now incoherent parts of the story, but I stopped thinking ethan was a possible suspect precisely BECAUSE I felt there were TOO many hints pointing at him being the origami killer, those cut scenes would have been EVEN MORE obviously fake directions and therefore unnesesary.
Also, unless it fits REALLY well into the plot, I dislike supernatural scenes in murder mysteries, even if they would potentially make the story more coherent, it makes the mystery in itself unfair
Don't know anything about the game's development but they must've been real rushed to cut out a major part of the story like that. They didn't even bother adding a replacement explanation for Ethan's blackouts and how he ended up in Carnaby st. Amazing how you actually have to see the deleted scenes to gain some context.
I wish Madison's chapter made it into the final version, I feel like it might be able to explain some plot holes like how she even can get ahold of Norman's phone number. We don't know where she work and what kind of information she has at her disposal. There's also lack of motive for her to be chasing this story the way she did. She ends up just kinda tagging along in the story without those kinds of background info.
The shelby killing his mom part and shaun going to school I can understand why they decided to cut. But even then the bit where Shaun complained about being late while in the park feels weird to me. After knowing about the removed scene I wonder if it was actually a consequence of a failed attempt to take Shaun to school on time?
Thanks for the video. Some elements of the game now make more sense.
HyperBitHero bro we need more of the lost in concept shows
Ethan could still technically have blackouts without the supernatural element, it would just involve removing all of them except for the one in the park, and just explain it as "he fainted through an anxiety attack of sorts which gave the killer an opportunity to kidnap Shaun". Still, I don't know how you could really keep the red herring of Ethan being the killer without that in place. It's still somewhat of a mess, but I love the game regardless and it's personally my favourite of David Cage's work.
Also, the Move controls actually work much better with this game than the traditional controls (and my first playthrough was with traditional controls).
Considering these are the guys who made Indigo Prophecy five years before, why did they expect the audience to take Heavy Rain more seriously?
Oh, great video, btw. Had I not been spoiled of it, and if they kept the supernatural stuff intact (I thought that'd be pretty cool), I would have tried it.
I mean, when I played the game no one spoiled it for me so I also thought Ethan might be the killer and it was super intense. I think they made the right call only if you look back on this game through your first play through
Tbh, I think the "Getting Shaun ready" could have been used for the Chronicles DLC. Just as a SOL thing