I could see Terranova as being hard to grade for Adam. It’s in his home crag and I think he said he tried it off and on for many years. Definitely hard to grade a problem that you have that much familiarity with. Plus I think Ondra tends to sandbag a bit :)
The entire grade conversation is very strange... If we imagine difficulty as a continuum spectrum and then we set arbitrary ranges within it, how can anyone tell it is appropriate to abandon one arbitrary range and go to the next? How are things even comparable with so many styles of climbing? Why don't we see a 9A slab? Why isn't a one move dyno of 15m not a 11B+?
It's fundamentally based on a collection of subjective opinions - this feels way harder than all the v12 I've done so myabe it's v13? (continue that thinking through lots of other people at each grade_. It's all based on a collective "feeling" of the grade. But at the end of the day each boulder's grade is dependant on individual variables, a 7c may be an 8a for a super tall person and 7b for a short person.
all of the grading systems are just a guideline and largely academic to all but the top few percent of climbers. it's only truly useful for gumbies like me while sifting through the guidebook to figure out where to spend the day at the crag or block. at the top end of the scales, it's even more irrelevant. you either send it or you don't.
This is why I find consensus grading an absurd concept. I fully appreciate & understand that rock texture, holds, body movement, body size, conditions on the day, etc, etc, etc. all make it really difficult (if not impossible) to develop a quantifiable, fully objective grading system. For me to go out to the bush 200km in the middle of nowhere, over 30-50 sessions, to finally send a FA of a v13, just for some other person to come along with the beta (or no beta), send it in 12 sessions, and he/she says, "meh, I didn't break a sweat, no biggie. V12" Like wtf? I'd be mad as hell. Again, I get it, this is probably the best way to do it right now. But I still just find the entire system a lil silly (oh dude from XYZ country says it's v12 and so do 2 other people so fuck you it's v12) . But I don't have a suggestion for an alternative. I even researched using computer vision & software to analyze holds, and try determine difficulty. But the sheer number of variables makes this impossible. At least for me as an individual working on it in my spare time. I reckon it would take a not-so-small army of about 100 people (comprised of physicists, mathematicians, computer scientists, & more) dedicated to solving the problem for years. And even then I doubt they'd produce a super robust solution.
@@null345 maybe have like an elo system? so you look at the best 10 climbs of a person over some time and then measure how long it took them to finish a new route? because yeah, measuring anything from the boulder, with so many styles seems impossible to me. even on small hold being a little better or a bit more tilted can change a climb by a grade or two. That's why I feel like an elo system might work here. you would need to work with historical data to set a baseline for every grade though and I'm sure there's a hundred more things to consider
In regards to terranova, I don’t think speculating on grades without climbing problems or routes ourselves is really helpful, only convolutes the process imo… you didn’t speculate on backflip so why muddy the waters with terranova?
The only opinions that matter, are those that ascend. Anyone else, it doesn't matter what they say, so why bring it down? It's just good fun to talk grades.
We didn’t speculate on Backflip SDS because no one else has tried it. With Terranova, Will - the world’s most accomplished 9A climber - has invested a lot of time into it and suggested that it’s unlikely to be 8C+. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speculate as a result of this 🤷🏼♂️
![[MV] A leap of faith...ความเชื่อใจครั้งสุดท้าย (From "Petrichor the series")](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/U1piZH2CNXA/mqdefault.jpg)
Will Bosi must be starting to get stressed out it is like playing whack a mole at this point.
or Pokemon - gotta catch them all!!
I could see Terranova as being hard to grade for Adam. It’s in his home crag and I think he said he tried it off and on for many years. Definitely hard to grade a problem that you have that much familiarity with. Plus I think Ondra tends to sandbag a bit :)
Kai whaley published a session out on Shaolin
and he's looking really strong on it already lol
@@Cqat1 lol
@@Cqat1lol he looked terrible on it wdym?
@@sheryinmoua8486 wdym it's a 9a, for that he did quite well imo
Unless I'm thinking of the wrong video right now...
@@sheryinmoua8486 second session now and he's done all the moves except one
The entire grade conversation is very strange... If we imagine difficulty as a continuum spectrum and then we set arbitrary ranges within it, how can anyone tell it is appropriate to abandon one arbitrary range and go to the next? How are things even comparable with so many styles of climbing? Why don't we see a 9A slab? Why isn't a one move dyno of 15m not a 11B+?
It's fundamentally based on a collection of subjective opinions - this feels way harder than all the v12 I've done so myabe it's v13? (continue that thinking through lots of other people at each grade_. It's all based on a collective "feeling" of the grade. But at the end of the day each boulder's grade is dependant on individual variables, a 7c may be an 8a for a super tall person and 7b for a short person.
all of the grading systems are just a guideline and largely academic to all but the top few percent of climbers. it's only truly useful for gumbies like me while sifting through the guidebook to figure out where to spend the day at the crag or block. at the top end of the scales, it's even more irrelevant. you either send it or you don't.
This is why I find consensus grading an absurd concept. I fully appreciate & understand that rock texture, holds, body movement, body size, conditions on the day, etc, etc, etc. all make it really difficult (if not impossible) to develop a quantifiable, fully objective grading system. For me to go out to the bush 200km in the middle of nowhere, over 30-50 sessions, to finally send a FA of a v13, just for some other person to come along with the beta (or no beta), send it in 12 sessions, and he/she says, "meh, I didn't break a sweat, no biggie. V12" Like wtf?
I'd be mad as hell. Again, I get it, this is probably the best way to do it right now. But I still just find the entire system a lil silly (oh dude from XYZ country says it's v12 and so do 2 other people so fuck you it's v12) .
But I don't have a suggestion for an alternative. I even researched using computer vision & software to analyze holds, and try determine difficulty. But the sheer number of variables makes this impossible. At least for me as an individual working on it in my spare time. I reckon it would take a not-so-small army of about 100 people (comprised of physicists, mathematicians, computer scientists, & more) dedicated to solving the problem for years. And even then I doubt they'd produce a super robust solution.
@@null345 maybe have like an elo system? so you look at the best 10 climbs of a person over some time and then measure how long it took them to finish a new route? because yeah, measuring anything from the boulder, with so many styles seems impossible to me. even on small hold being a little better or a bit more tilted can change a climb by a grade or two. That's why I feel like an elo system might work here. you would need to work with historical data to set a baseline for every grade though and I'm sure there's a hundred more things to consider
In regards to terranova, I don’t think speculating on grades without climbing problems or routes ourselves is really helpful, only convolutes the process imo… you didn’t speculate on backflip so why muddy the waters with terranova?
The only opinions that matter, are those that ascend. Anyone else, it doesn't matter what they say, so why bring it down? It's just good fun to talk grades.
We didn’t speculate on Backflip SDS because no one else has tried it. With Terranova, Will - the world’s most accomplished 9A climber - has invested a lot of time into it and suggested that it’s unlikely to be 8C+. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to speculate as a result of this 🤷🏼♂️
I thought megatron was repeated wit a suggested downgrade to v15
That was April fools
no way people still believe that 😭