I was a little too young to see star wars in the cinema when it originally came out, but I'd always assumed Luke defeated the emperor. When I finally got to see rotj, my mind was completely blown in that final scene, where Vader watches the emperor torturing and (almost) killing his son. It was such a powerful moment and when he decided that he was going to save his son, turn on his master.... amazing. Luke truly saved his father, through love- not force of arms or skill. It was the love between a father and his son that defeated the empire, not x wings, not light savers, not troops or starships,...but love. What a powerful message and what a powerful story- anakin was truly the one to bring balance to the force- by putting his childs needs before his own, through selflessness - which his son taught him. Now compare that with what Disney has served up in the form of the acoylte. Such wasted possibilities, such wasted money.
It were the rebels that defeated the Epire not Luke or Vader. The Death Star would have blown up no matter how the fight between Luke and Vader / Palpatine ended. Redeeming Anakin was just the cherry on top.
It’s not wrong to dive into the faults and moral ambiguity of heroic figures. ANDOR does that masterfully with the character of Luthen and Mon Mothma. They have to sacrifice not only their loved ones to a certain degree, but their own morals and lives. I kept questioning is Luthen a bad guy for putting the lives of 50 men to protect his identity and informant? But what he’s doing is also kinda what’s necessary for the rebellion to thrive. This is the type of writing that I love, and why Andor earns my praise for questioning the Rebellion’s motives, but not the cause itself. It’s still made clear it was necessary. The acolyte just tells you what to think, what to feel about the Jedi, rather than getting you to think about it
I agree. As I said in another comment, having well written stories with more complex characters is welcome. But the morals and philosophies at Star Wars’ core needs to be maintained. The Jedi are imperfect beings aligning themselves with the good. Don’t criticize the entire order.
Andor takes place during the Empire (dictatorship), while The Acolyte and the prequels take place during the Republic (democracy). The most idealistic person in a democracy becomes pragmatic in a dictatorship. I'm from Eastern Europe, and I was born under a dictatorship. You sacrifice your loved ones and even your own values so that you, your family, and many others will one day be free, and so that no one else will have to make these sacrifices. Andor is amazing and perfectly in tune with George's vision.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
Now compare that to today's audiences who are all about "resistance " on Twitter but then crumble at being miss gandered. They will argue about everything but will not fight for anything and have no clue of self sacrifice. For all the talk anyone here think today's youth will volunteer to storm Normandy as was done 4 generation ago? Their idea of fighting is meme about former president!
In the books, there's a part where Luke's son Ben is reflecting on a lesson his father taught him. Basically, if you're stuck with two bad alternatives, pick the third one; in short, strive to do right even when every other standard of reason is telling you to compromise. Compare that to what we have now.
I finally figured it out. KK is trying to bleed out Lucas-Films, putting them in the Red, as any Sith would do when presented with something useful to a Jedi, like the Kyber Crystal of their light saber!
^They also aren’t in charge (and, besides, Filoni’s more of a “Renfield”. Not an outright villain, but a relatively slavish follower of a certain “villainous element”, shall we say.🧛🏻♀️😉).
@Macielos1 Nope. They aren’t that at all. They’re the guys trying to save the franchise BTS. If you think they’re villains, then either you have a goldfish mentality on their works or you’re that petty in a stupid way.
I was thinking about how aspects of the show mirror real life. Those in power are protecting their power by covering up what happened. Is this an allegorical confession by Headland?
Aside from everything else they missed, Lucas also ensured that the Sith always look like zombies. He explained that this is his visual metaphor to demonstrate why being bad is bad. He didn't want his bad guys to be the cool ones. They look like zombies because evil is not the right way to go. The fact that Disney has them still looking like models with beautiful skin really proves that they have no idea what they are doing on any conceivable level at all.
@@achaudhari101Duku wasn't trying to take over the galaxy. He was just playing both sides and hedging his bets. That's why the emperor had him killed when he had outlived his usefulness.
Your argument was that the Sith are like zombies and I’m pointing out that not everyone was like a zombie physically. Bane didn’t even look like a zombie.
Regardless, Lucas’s ideal of evil being evil and good being good (he was very clear on this) doesn’t jive with modern Hollywood sensibilities and ideology. That’s why we’re seeing that aspect eroded from the Star Wars mythos.
i think its more that evil has a tendency to reflect outwards. duku didn't need to look zombified cuz they were already Dracula lol. but in all seriousness eventually the rot will make its way to the surface and leave its mark, however it manifests. it always does. just look at the eyes. windows to the soul indeed.
It's the same thing with NuTrek. The new writers simply don't understand what made these franchises....unique. For Trek it was the 'hopeful' future. For Wars it is the Good vs Evil AND Lucas's philosophy. Now we have dark dystopian Trek and Wars with the Sith and Jedi morally equal. Without those unique features, these franchises are....generic, and honestly not very good.
I think that’s what’s happening. We’re getting generic sci-fi, shaped by the ideology, morality (or lack thereof) and sensibilities of modern Hollywood writers, that just happens to have our favourite IP names slapped on them.
The New Trek writers (JJ's team) are NOT smart, they're the guys who failed science in school and they hate science because they don't understand it so they invent all sort of nonsense.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
@paulcassidy2802 Oh man is Trek insufferable now. I used to watch TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on network TV as a kid and into college. NuTrek is just awful and unwatchable. Now, I have to wait until my kids are asleep if I want to watch Picard s3 (the only good thing ‘NuTrek’) because of the violence and cussing. Anything Alex Kurztman touches is awful, and I do not believe any Starfleet officers in his shows are competent enough to be running a starship let alone even be from the future. Everyone acts and talks like they are from modern LA, and honestly it’s all so infuriating because it has no charm. Kurtzman has been the worst thing to happen to Trek since Stuart Baird…
@ashleybanks-wm4cg sol deserved to have his name dragged as a murderer and traitor to his own so that vernestra could cover up her own mistakes with her former padawan? Sol acted on information he had and was given by Mae. He saw what he thought was abuse, he was told by Mae that the girls needed to be sacrificed and he witnessed the dark side mark left on maes fore head. Should he have gone to the council? Yes. But indara told him not too.
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg he really didn't get "what he deserved" ya he was dumb but the writing was horrible... so I don't even wanna get into all that shit because it hurts
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg Because he’s everything the Jedi aren’t. The quote doesn’t point at the Acolyte, it points at the anti-Jedism in the fanbase that Leslye definitely shares for her own reason. The idea that Jedi ‘don’t love’, for example, is a classic case of anti-Jedi bs. You ‘love him as a father’ but you’re somehow worried he doesn’t feel a similar sentiment? For all the criticisms of the prequels that are said - so often being rooted in something no matter how inaccurate said-interpretation is, literally nothing was ever said or remotely implied that the Jedi don’t feel whatsoever or love besides the cases of romantic relations. It’d make more sense if they instead assumed, albeit stupidly so, that Jedi aren’t allowed to have a rock collection.
@@TitusAndromadon none of that is justified because just like youre doing now Sol made all that up in his head and his motivation was selfish What abuse did he witness? The gurls were well taken care of why would he act on information from a child? The same information you're creating out of thin air
@@charlez7416 At this point I don’t think the writers wouldn’t able tell the difference they both use dark side for evil intentions both needs to be stop. Plus I don’t think regular people in that galaxy wouldn’t tell difference between the Jedi and Sith.
@@jaieregilmore971 Yes however as Sith use thier power from evil, selfish intentions and have certain code of believes. The individual Dark Jedi doesn't really follow any certain rules and sometimes can have good or noble intentions that lead to the suffering of everyone around. Tbh Dark Jedi were only invented as to have Luke fight someone in the legends as the Sith were gone but Luke needed a Dark Side opponents, or for the video games like Dark Forces 2, Jedi outcast, jedi academy and so many others. Examples like Desann or Jerec are quite obvious.
The hero's journey is now a dead concept these days. It's not about going through trials and proving your worth. Now everyone is special and equal because someone gave them a 5 second speech about how amazing they are.
Thor is 100% spot on: "Maybe part of the reason why some out there really did seem to enjoy something like The Acolyte is maybe because they like the idea of the Selfless Jedi being torn down in order to feel better about their own selfishness, their own desire to be a little more Sith-like."
@@chengmunwai What the hell does "woke" have to do with ANYTHING? That's a completely meaningless term these days. It used to just be a grammatically poor way of saying "be aware of what's happening," like "keep your eyes open." Now it's just a stupid label people stick on anything they don't like for any reason. So, Ashley Banks, what criticisms do you have with the Jedi's ways? Luke did obviously take issue with having no attachments, but he did embrace the selflessness of the Jedi. What's wrong with that?
@@Corn_Pone_Flicksthere are hundreds if not thousands of words that are used colloquially in ways that don't perfectly match their dictionary definitions, "woke" being among them. Most commonly from what I've seen, it refers to someone, topic, or thing in favor of intersectional critical theory politics. "Intersectional" being the intersection of identities e.g. woman, black, LGBT; where common interests have them work towards a mutual goal. "Critical theory" i.e. conflict theory, which is about how how two or more groups, one representing the status quo, operate throughout history exclusively opposed to each other e.g. bourgeois and proletariat. All together, "woke" represents an allaince of minority identities against the conventional, status quo, or majority identity.
As I get older and seek to grow as a person, I gain more and more respect for the original Star Wars movies, especially the original story of Luke Skywalker, who started as a somewhat selfish young man who looked to the future because he wanted to be someone great. Then he became a famous hero, and let it go to his head, he had to be the one to save his friends because he didn’t trust his friends to save themselves, and because of this he failed and was humbled. In the end Luke learns what it truly means to love, rather than look to be loved. He doesn’t need to be the one to kill the emperor, blow up the Death Star, or save his friends, because he trusts his friends, he goes to the Death Star for one reason, to save his father! In the end Luke becomes a true hero, not because he beat the bad guy, because he loved the bad guy, he didn’t save the day, he saved his father. The humility, compassion, love, and growth of Luke is what it truly means to be a hero and what we are often missing in media today.
I think the key point here is that Luke has actual conflict as a character. He has fears and ambitions and makes mistakes. He is interesting. Characters like Sol are also interesting for the same reasons. I don't know why everyone is freaking out about the fact that Jedi are also people too. Why would Jedi not have the spectrum of human struggle as other people? Why are people freaking out over the darker characters having motives besides "evil because evil"? It's so confusing
@@martinmp19I think one of the big issues with current Star Wars is not the message that morality is complicated, like you and I have both said Luke was complicated. I think the issue is that 1. The newer characters aren’t written as well as the classic characters, and 2. Because it is not written well the moral message presented by the writer/Director makes it seem like it’s ok to except becoming evil, rather than learning to grow in order to become good.
OT: a tale about making the right choices in life. (Han saving Luke and the rebels, Leia not snitching on the rebellion, Luke not giving in to the dark side, Lando trying to save Han, Vader saving his son.) PT: a cautionary tale about making the wrong/selfish choices in life. (Complacency of the Jedi, bureaucracy of theSenate, Anakin accepting the dark side and betraying the Jedi for selfish reasons, Anakin killing unarmed Dooku, Anakin killing an entire village ) ST: I still don’t know what this trilogy was trying to say…
It's so frustrating to see all of these valid criticisms brushed aside and dismissed as "haters hating" by people who just accept anything with a Star Wars label on it. Is it so far beyond the scope of people's imaginations to believe that the $180 million that went into this show could have gone into something that had everything they liked about Acolyte (shiny lightsabers and two-second meaningless cameos) AND good writing?
@@dakota_kramer well said! I noticed that outside of troll accounts the defence has quieted. Especially here on Thor’s channel. But yeah, really makes you wonder if they’re just paid shills.
That's Disney shills for you. They'll eat up whatever Disney throws at them as long as it has a Star Wars logo on it and not ask questions and not call out bad writing / inconsistencies. And of course, they'll get overly excited every time Disney brings in legacy characters in such poorly written shows just to feed them soulless nostalgia bait with no meaning. Like when they brought in Darth Plagueis and Yoda in a show that is so unbelievably bad, it just made me roll my eyes. There's a video by Mr Grizzy that shows TH-camrs reacting TROS, and they get so overly excited about a horribly made movie.
It gets nuttier because a lot of those people believe the writing IS good. Any legit criticism has been deflected to me as nitpicking or missing the point. They will literally fill in the gaps themselves and say it makes sense as long as you make the connections yourself. It's bizarre
I consider the Jedi to be the ideal of heroism not just because of the good deeds they do and try to do, but also most Jedi understand the sacrifice they make by being a Jedi. I think it makes more sense the Jedi over the millennia to realize that having a family leads to a conflict of interest. Also if a Jedi wants to leave they can. No jedi will be hunted down for leaving the order if they fell in love and decided to pursue said love. Seeing the acolyte paint the Jedi as bad guys is sad. Evil should never be justified
@@achaudhari101The Jedi were flawed but still good in The Prequels. The Acolyte makes them incompetent douchebags who act almost like the Sith thanks to bad writing.
@@Jedishill680just ignore him. As for your take - it's absolutely based. Jedi in prequels were just a reminder that good people make mistakes, and are not in any way protected from pride. But they have always been good, and it's cool to see people in our day and age advocating for the jedi
I think Yoda summed it up best: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter". This message is what modern society either doesn't understand or hates.
I just can't believe how ridiculous and dull they made Yoda after the OT. Lightsabers ....ha Bouncing around like a ball...ha Adventures....ha Being oblivious to the death of Jedi(or regular people) ...ha Where did it go "Great warrior? Wars don't make one great".... They (even Lucas in the PT) really made him a "great" warrior .
Yes! 😃 You have convinced me. But it must not be said with disgust like They say "Legends'", but with mirth only something that is total rubbish can manifest, like "The Room."
You are 100% spot-on, I'm in a bunch of discord servers where there are channels talking about TV shows and movies and I've talked to a few people who liked The Acolyte overall and invariably the conversation broke down to them saying the Jedi were flawed/bad all along and some even were adamant that this was George Lucas's intention from the start. Another trait I've seen is that a bunch of them saw the world in pretty much black & white and that's why they thought the Jedi were bad. As in you make a mistake = you are bad. I also need to point out that "doing whatever you can to succeed" is probably the dominant mentality in Hollywood where actors (and especially actresses) are notoriously bullied into doing stuff they're not okay with by being told "if you refuse you just don't want it badly enough and someone else will take your place". We live in a screwed up world where the most corrupt people dominate media & politics and constantly preach to normal, decent people about morality and values.
Star Wars is about Redemption and Accepting people for who we are(OG 6). Thats my opinion pre video. Theres a Yoda Quote I love and always try and live by, “You must train yourself to let go of what you fear to lose the most”. It’s a truly beautiful quote with an unachievable goal. Yoda told this to Anakin after his visions of Losing Padme, and while its good advice, Anakin needed love, he needed a Father, So while it was the right thing for Yoda to say it wasn’t for a Jedi like Anakin. It’s truly beautiful man and I desperately miss this level of depth.
I waited for a long time to see an Asian Jedi, Disney gave me Sol. The first thing he did after seeing Osha was get attached. Not only that, he was so lame that Osha, Mae, Witch mom, and even the lil beaver caught him off guard. Then right before he dies, he allowed his adoptive daughter to embrace the darkside, "it's okay". Fuck.
The failure of Acolyte makes me even more excited to finally see Andor Season two. Let’s just hope that there’s no studio interference, like how Mandalorian Season Three had
Having watched it I don’t agree since I believe it does add a good amount to the story like with Mandalore being back in the hands of the Mandalorians. Not to mention Bo and Din were always on screen together so the whole notion that the season was the “Bo Katan show” was so inaccurate and dumb. Personally that hatred stemmed from two things: Gina Carano getting fired and fans taking the frustrations out on that season and Boba Fett being hated which I also argue was overhated as well.
The only one that was all over the place was Episode 3 and that didn’t go anywhere other than us seeing what people in the Empire now do under the New Republic.
This might be your best video yet. You totally took me back 40 freaking years behind to the day I discovered Star Wars and felt these things. And unfortunately had to realize no one around me felt them. Life is like an ocean, the deeper you go, the scarcer the population.
If you dislike or hate the jedis, maybe Star wars is not the right franchise for you. Jedi are iconic. You have a mixture of monks/samurai/knights that can use the unique magic "the force". Even the weapons are iconic. I mean with what do you even replace the jedis? Removing jedis from Star wars is like removing wizards from Harry potter or removing dinosaurs from jurassic park.
@@achaudhari101 not a lot of people watched Andor compared the the larger movies. Same for rouge one. I love that movie but still compared the larger universe it’s just a blip. The ogs and the prequels are much better by any metric. Money wise popularity wise. Cultural impact. Your argument is what about isms and Strawman.
Got nothing to do with views or money but rather it doesn’t need to always be about the Jedi/Sith yet you kinda wished it did. That’s like saying people like the bounty hunters more than the Jedi/Sith or the space battles and you thinking they’re stupid. Newsflash, Star Wars is multiple things.
Who is removing Jedis from Star Wars? Also, did you watch the prequel trilogy where the Jedi were bumbling idiots and let the Sith return right under their noses because of their hubris? The Jedi Order being flawed (not individual Jedi) is exactly what George Lucas wanted to tell us. Do you even Star Wars? LOL
@Thorskywalker you nailed it, very well said. You truly understand what the story means to me and many others. Thank you for articulating it so well. It takes many years to develop that kind of understanding a story like Star Wars, and the Jedi can have on somebody when they pay attention to the deeper meaning of it. Watching your heroes overcome the hardest times. It can be inspirational. And unless you have put forth the effort to see it in real life, it’s hard to explain it to anybody who doesn’t see that of which you just described. Haha Disney should have all new writers watch this video in an orientation meeting before they write anymore Star War shows. Thanks for your efforts keep’em coming!
To contrast with the Prequels, the Jedi in The Acolyte should have been portrayed as Heroes. The Jedi visit another planet and are treated like rockstars, where the people come to them for healing, wisdom, favors, etc.. It should be an Age where the Jedi are like the soldiers returning from World War II where they don't have to pay taxes and people treat the Jedi like royalty. And the Jedi should have been shown as living up to this ideal - brokering deals that are good for all, help the disadvantaged and work for the good of the galaxy and society. An age when honor and your word meant something, and a deal could be done with a handshake. A time when institutions worked, and worked for the good of the whole. And in hiding, the Sith, in secret, also operate, but using much meager and smaller means, and with subterfuge. The galaxy would have been like the world that George grew up in, where there were more do-gooders than you could count, and people were much more engaged.
Hey Thor, You got me thinking about whether the “point of Star Wars” is reflected well by any show in Disney’s era. I think it pops up here and there in Mando, and some of the animation but I believe “Andor” really hits it as a core theme. Andor presents a similar sort of moral compass that the originals did, perhaps in a more adult, larger world way. The line from Nemik’s manifesto “Oppression is the mask of fear” could easily have fit right into any of Lucas’s films. There are many others: Marva’s testament, Kino’s selfless act of the prison break out, and so on . I think that’s one of the reasons many of us consider it to have a place up with the originals. Yes great writing, acting, etc, but there’s a universal theme of hope, compassion and perseverance that flows through that whole show. Would love to know your thoughts.
Im sure its no coincidence either that these sith posess much in the way of material poseesions compared to the jedi. With sidious it was the republic, for maul it was his crime syndicate on mandalore,for pleaguis it was damask holdings, for tenabraus it was his engineering works.
If you’ve ever seen the empire of dreams documentary, it talks about how films at the time Star Wars released were anti-hero films. But then when Star Wars came into the mix, it mentions that movies were fun again. Now we’re in a similar situation lol
Thor, once again, you hit the nail on the head. The message and themes of Star Wars have always resonated with me as a young man. The world continues to grow smaller and more cynical and it's sad that ideas like "objective good" and selflessness seems to be more and more like an ideal of yesteryear. My point being: Art is suppose to reflect the culture and time it's made in. The Acolyte is painfully indicative of individuals within the culture and time in which it was made.
Hey Thor, The Jedi were our role models at a time when all we had were toxic action heroes. Violence was a last resort. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself to save Leia. In an age of Rambo, Steven Segal, Clint Eastwood, and Chuck Norris, the Jedi gave us something deeper, something higher, for our aspirations. Toxicity wins, I guess.
Good and evil exists in all of us, it’s all about the hard choices one makes to keep in the light because the dark side as yoda said is basically “the easier way.” Jedi are supposed to be beings of highly tested, wise, and resilient character. The fall of the Jedi seems to be part of a renewal cycle which “The Chosen One” needed to bring balance to. Luke’s New Jedi Order should’ve been a perfect way of rebuilding how good can still win despite evil pervading every corner and cranny of life. The difference is that Jedi have an extraordinary way of overcoming evil due to the trials they consistently face.
Hey Thor, would you ever be willing to talk about how Star Wars has impacted you personally? In this video you talk about Lucas’s original intention for SW was to reinvigorate spirituality in the young and prepare them for finding their purpose in the world and asking the bigger questions about life. Since you grew up with the OT and would most likely have been right in that target audience, I was wondering if SW did those things for you personally and if so in what ways? I’d love to know your experiences with all of those things and anything else you feel comfortable sharing. Your videos are great and even though I don’t always watch every new SW show I put a lot of stock in your opinions on them.
The High Republic was meant to be a 'clean' era where its writers can do anything they want. It's the one era in which you really shouldn't use the Sith directly, because it's the era when we know the Banite Sith are plotting in the shadows. But the struggle of the light and the dark, of selfless connection and ego driven domination, is so fundamental to Star Wars that the High Republic couldn't stay away from it for long. Even if this take on it in The Acolyte is warped.
The Acolyte’s flaws go beyond Star Wars. This is one that caters between writing Star Wars and story writing in general. The least severe issue with the Acolyte is that it takes place too early in the established timeline for a Jedi/Sith story. The Acolyte is an absolute and the biggest blatant disregard of Star Wars and established Star Wars canon yet. It confirms everything where speculation still lingered: Disney, Kennedy and the people under them genuinely have no interest in making Star Wars and have no care for consistency or established canon. They want to turn Star Wars into something it isn’t.
The problem with the acolyte is how it represents the "sides" in that struggle. The high republic, as "clean" of an era as it is still has content around it. It's called the high republic for a reason, this was when the Jedi were at their peak and the galaxy was generally peaceful and prosperous because the Jedi were acting selflessly and following the will of the force. The acolyte paints the whole concept of the Jedi as a corrupt and fraudulent institution, which is inconsistent with previous ideas that the Jedi (at least as an ideal concept) were role models to be looked up to. In addition, there are many ways to portray the struggle between light and dark. All that needed to be done was to not give the Jedi a reason to suspect the sith were on the rise again, but that's exactly what ended up happening. It now seems totally ridiculous to imagine that after these events, the events of the prequels could possibly take place unless no one in the Jedi had any functioning brain cells
It was supposed to be a “clean” era where they couldn’t ruin beloved characters. And yet they still managed to destroy or harm Anakin, Ki Adi Mundi, Darth Bane, and Yoda. That’s impressive even for these morons
It's fine to use the Sith directly as long as the constraints of the time period are kept. The Sith are lurking in the shadows, blending in with the galaxy at large and not being a public threat to either the Jedi or the Republic. That doesn't mean they won't encounter the Jedi during this period but that any skirmish would not draw the attention of the people at the top of the Jedi Order or the Republic bureaucracy.
I think Headland (and some new writers) got a summary of "What is Star Wars about?" that included a hypo. Instead of Good vs Evil, they got Good is Evil....lol
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
@@MaxRamos8 Yeah, talk about totally not getting what the SW universe is about, and the rules that define it. Next directors/writers should have to submit to public questioning as part of their hiring, lol.
For me this is stated/explained almost exactly why it doesn’t feel like Star Wars anymore. We went from Obi Wan saying the Jedi were “The Guardians of Peace and Justice” to where we see their shortcomings but they stood for good despite those to now the Jedi are conniving, teenage type drama, manipulative selfish villains essentially. Where’s the lesson? Where’s the hope? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the hero’s journey? George Lucas once said a special effect by itself is a pretty boring thing. You need a compelling story with characters that stand for something. Well Disney LF never really learned that because they took a lightsaber, a robe and a name and thinks that’s what makes Star Wars .
You know Lucas changed his mind a lot right? I mean his favorite arc in Clone Wars was the droid arc. So that makes no difference when the creator is very lax on a lot of things. Also it needs to “feel” like Star Wars in order for it to be Star Wars? That makes no sense.
@@achaudhari101 so if you were a huge James Bond fan, and you were old enough to have been around for most of them, accepted that they’ve changed with each new actor and updated with modern times, that you still were a huge fan through all of that, and I came on board, and made Bond be a pacifist who didn’t want to carry a weapon, laid on a couch of a therapist to work through his problems , didn’t want to go to other parts of the world to solve the mission that you would be ok with that? I would have changed the main elements of James Bond. Changed why many Bond fans watch them. I should have just came up with my own story and not hijacked the name James Bond. So that movie would not feel like a James Bond movie even with the name on it. So how does that not make sense?
Thank you for the spot on summary. Since the beginning of this series it was clear this was their trajectory. I can understand somewhat of an attempt to modernize the storytelling in a way, showing all sides by focusing on the "pain, fear, and suffering" that may seem to justify one's path at the time. But what's important is showing the consequences of what following that path brings - more suffering. This also helps summarize what I love with what was done with Andor. They dove into the backstory of the rebellion and the true sacrifice and selflessness required to support the greater cause while also showing the hard decisions and challenges of morality that must be answered when trying to support that cause. Additionally, questions are posed regarding the radical trajectory that can be taken in attempting to support a cause, which can grey the lines. Transversely, we're shown the other side of the coin in the the empire character's storyline. We're given some understanding of their motives, mostly based on selfishness and self benefit, power, and control. These characters are not glorified but still are deeply interesting. While the Andor story is not quite as black and white as light vs dark, Sith vs Jedi, it is clearly imposed who we should be supporting. None of this conflicted pressure to be in support of these girls who are clearly murderers and diving into the dark.
What I mean is the older and bolder I get the more I seek the story and message of the media I consume. If the message is off I can't enjoy the content I'm watching. Sadly this time it's star wars. "You were meant to destroy the Sith, not join them!!" That quote was powerful! Gave me chills. But that era is over unfortunately. R.I.P.
I also wanna know how people can criticize Reylo but like osha x Qimir and think it’s well written. It’s literally the same thing but worse and more rushed. I can understand why Rey liked Kylo cause he had inner conflict. Qimir is pure fucking evil and gleefully killed osha’s friends in front of her and she didn’t give a fuck. Hell he even tried to kill her by throwing a lightsaber at her. I don’t get it man. Why can’t both be criticized equally?
they can both be criticized equally and millions of star wars fans are doing it. you cannot expect acceptance of logical criticism to be adopted universally.
Kylo helped to kill billions of people and they tried to do a redemption arc for him. Qimir is unapologetically lawful evil and matches Osha's true orientation. Their relationship makes 100 times more sense.
Strangely enough even the title of show tells it. Akolyte is a title, orignally of the chatholic clergy, signifies a low hierarchical standing in an organization. In the context of SW, particularly since the game SWTOR, a candidate for becoming Sith. This is, in the time frame of Star Wars, a fairly old fashioned concept. Acolytes were a thing that was used thousands of years ago.
The tone and theme of the Acolyte would've sat much better had it been told from the POV of the Sith. It would make sense that the story is trying to deconstruct and de-mythologize the Jedi because that is how the Sith view them. It could've been that Osha/Mae or some other Main character is struggling whether to give in to the easy path to power and self-fulfillment that the Dark side often tempts you with and have that contradict with the temperance, patience, and selflessness that the Jedi often emulate. Having Jedi Master Sol be conflicted and act on a deeper sense of attachment was a good character trait but it would've been more impactful had Sol been the convenient excuse that Osha seen that the Jedi aren't as infallible as they often are. That the Jedi are capable of mistakes or making tough decisions and are capable of bending their morals if it means that the greatest good is achieved in the end. Then the Sith can exploit that weakness to turn Osha to the dark side. To have her see that the people she once wanted to emulate be imperfect and the cause of her own past trauma would help push her to reject the Jedi as the peace keepers of the galaxy.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
Did she mean it like "father betrays child" or "child betrays father"?because those have two wildly different implications neither really applicable to Star Wars.
@@wingedyaga2914 exactly what you thought, father betraying a child. Not even a theme of Sat Wars, the closest would be seducing an innocent person to go against thier original will
@@MaxRamos8 Vader asks Luke to join him in ruling the galaxy after revealing he is Anakin. It's literally a part of the series' most iconic scene. That's not the betrayal of the father, heck Anakin's villain arc is him thinking what he's doing will save his family.
The acolyte was so bad to the point where I was hoping the last episode would at least be decent and somewhat cool down from its Anti-Star Wars rhetoric. Boy was I wrong. Leslye went full scorched earth on the franchise.
It feels like she watched a video essay on Kreia and based her entire fanfiction premise based off that interpretation. Without doing any of the legwork Tim Cain and Chris Avellone did for KOTOR 1 & 2 to make coherent sense.
Thank you, man! I consider you are exactly on point with your reflection. It is encouraging to know there’s people out there that see it this way. If it sounds extreme, it is because our society is on that extreme. Totally agree with you
For the fun of it (and because I was bored at work) I left a deliberately antagonistic comment just to see how people would over react and it was verry entertaining. The crown is given to the person who said that it is better than Andor because it had better numbers but that was only for the early episodes.
@@crossfire34 It was based on the early episodes of Andor compared to the early episodes of Acolyte I thought I included that and just fixed my comment
I just wanna know what the point of this story was? Outside of retconning plagueis what does this show do for the Star Wars universe? It doesn’t bring up anything interesting points about the Jedi or sith. We got really no world building about the high republic for those who don’t even read the books of that era. And what interesting ideas they do have they squander them. Like how the Jedi are flawed but that was done better before or a main character turning to the dark side and they do it in the most contrived way possible. I can’t even say it’s for Sith fans because we don’t know anything about what Qimir wants as a sith besides “freedom” even tho he blatantly exposed himself. And I like his character but it makes no sense. Like I just don’t get it man. At least I understood what the sequels were trying to do even if they had poor execution. I have no idea what the acolyte is even trying to accomplish. I owe Thor an apology for doubting him and thinking this shit had a chance to
What do you mean you doubted Thor? I like Thor's takes, but up until the last few episodes he gave this show so meny breaks (too meny undeserved breaks) - despite everybody in the comments ripping the story to shreds. I love Thors optimism but he was skirting the "fool who follows him" territory.
Amazing video, and I share your perspective. I also love how you subtly conveyed that Star Wars is about democracy and the importance of defending it against dictatorship, never letting the guard down like the Jedi did, which allowed evil to triumph. This is particularly relevant considering that many vocal fans hold dangerous political views and have completely missed the point of Star Wars. They are the same fans that hated the prequels or place "the ORIGINAL trilogy" on a pedestal, trying to downplay the [political] message of the prequels. They only enjoy the lightsaber battles and the escapism it offers.
I miss the aspirational, hopeful stories of Legends. Bad things always kept happening - otherwise stories would have been really boring - but the theme was always to try to protect, to help those who needed help, stand up for your fellow beings, even stand with those you hate against even greater threats, and learn to find common ground in the process. All of the journeys now seem selfish and personal.
Thank you! I’ve wanted to articulate why I didn’t like this show, but couldn’t find the words to express what I was feeling or why exactly it rubbed me the wrong way. But you hit the nail on the head and put it beautifully!
I've never related so much to what someone was saying. I couldn't put into words why I didn't love these newer shows as much but Thor, you nailed it exactly. Thanks for the video!
Thank you . This is the way for the common good, Strive to be good and help others protect the weak. be one with the force. Lukes father realizes how evil he has become and does the right thing and shows even if you go down the path of the dark side one can still repent. The real world where if you have 5 bucks a day you are not classed as living in poverty, Over half of people can be jailed or worse if you disagree with your rulers. Star Wars WAS a story of good v evil and offered a hope that the good gals and guys would win in the end. The Acolyte does not follow that story line.
It’s interesting how the fall of Star Wars coincides with my loss of faith and hope. Lucas’s Star Wars gave me hope and made me think about the possibility of something greater than myself. It helped me open myself up to more hopeful ideals and helped me get through some hardships. Disney Star Wars came about when my life started getting…complicated. Disney SW is all nihilistic and spiteful - specifically toward the fans. Now, after A LOT of introspection and thought, I reject everything Disney SW and will stick to my love for Lucas’s Star Wars and his era’s Expanded Universe.
EU was not his universe dude. Your whole comment sounds like a Western Civilization reference even though it doesn’t make a lick of sense. Is that like saying George Lucas’s Sequels are Pro Traditionalism/Western Civilization while Disney’s version is Postmodernism?
@@achaudhari101 I never said it was. That being said, Lucas did sign off and approve on some EU projects. All I was saying is that the fall of Star Wars happened right around the time I lost my faith and when my life started taking a more complicated turn. I wasn’t making any comment on Western Civilization or pro-Traditionalism or whatever. It was literally just a comment related to the video’s main topic - or tried to be. My disdain for Disney Star Wars is how their storytelling methods are literally the antithesis of Lucas’s original vision for Star Wars. It also doesn’t help that it’s blatantly political towards one side. I don’t care if it’s left, right, or center. If it’s good, I will say that it’s good. I enjoyed Andor, for example. I also do NOT like nihilistic storytelling. I’m afraid you looked too much into my comment.
@@TheSpectacledOwl I’m sorry to hear you’ve been struggling, and the philosophy of Star Wars changed with that. But again, there does seem to be a big problem with hopelessness and lack of purpose for a lot of people right now, and many people are sucked into that they’d rather be obsessed with deconstruction and bringing characters down to their level to be “more relatable and flawed” when I think that we could use optimism and paragons of virtue more than ever. Those types of stories matter, and after going through an edgier phase from my teens into my early twenties when it came to stories, I find myself finding new appreciation for simpler, heroic characters who are just trying to do the right thing. And not in a naive way, but as an example of how I want to mature, and look at the world with a joyful, hopeful sentiment but that’s informed and strengthened from my hardships. There is value I think in telling stories about the darker, more hopeless parts of humanity, but it isn’t something to be stuck in and I don’t think we as a culture should prop those up as the stories to base our morality on. I actually stopped watching Rick and Morty when I started to realize how the show made me feel, and how its messaging seemed to become increasingly nihilistic after a few seasons. The Vat of Acid episode is the one that made me stop watching altogether, and I won’t be going back.
OSHA’s murder of Sol is literally the exact opposite of how Luke treated Vader. If Headland was trying to make her seem like a tragic figure like Anakin, I might understand. But that’s not the case- we’re supposed to sympathize with her, we’re supposed to SHIP her with Qimir, a murderer. There’s a difference between acknowledging that we all fall sin and saying “yeah, evil is good.”
An incredibly eloquent editorial, Thor. This video deserves to be seen by anyone who genuinely cares about SW, regardless of their own personal thoughts on the Acolyte. You always provide such a thoughtful, balanced perspective on these matters. Thank you.
I enjoyed the Acolyte through the episode breakdowns of What the Force podcast, where they breakdown the storytelling through mythic and fairytale perspectives, it was illumination and highly enjoyable. I would recommend it.
And what's worse is that those who easily or conveniently look past and disregard the true meaning of Star Wars can just label the rest of us as "haters" and whatever else is popular at the time. It's actually very sad because all of the older fans that I know are some of the best people I've ever come across. Continuity matters. Now more than ever.
Thor. That was the most fair, honest, and articulate critique of The Acolyte immediately and Disney Star Wars generally. Thank you. I hope all those who disagree with you hold themselves to the same quality you do.
I agree with the discussion on what Star Wars is supposed to be about and what it represents. It’s a universe with a clear good and evil, and that we need to be careful with the choices we make. Traditional religious values are something that are often made fun of in modern day, and while I’m not attempting to sway anyone a certain way, these ideas and philosophies based on morality matter. I’m a Christian myself, and part of what I’ll be doing for the rest of my life is pursuing that type of moral life, and often asking where I’m at and how I’m doing. That’s why to me, in many was Star Wars isn’t simply science fiction, but a mythology, and while I’m more than happy to engage with some more complex stories, the morality of Star Wars needs to remain intact; and this obsession with deconstruction and extreme relatability needs to end. In many ways, Luke does become a mythical hero in the EU, but he still goes through hard trials and great loss, and isn’t infallible (I just finished listening to Shadows of Mindor, and enjoyed how Luke struggled with the idea of other people making him a legend. Way more engaging than The Last Jedi). Now, I might watch The Acolyte since it’s all out and I’ll be looking at it as non-canon, but after finally giving Kenobi a chance… Disney and current LucasFilm just doesn’t get it. Andor and 2 decent seasons of Mandalorian isn’t enough. And with introducing Plagueis, that probably means they’ll want to tell his story, but there’s no way they’ll be able to write a better story than what James Luceno did with his novel. It sets the stage for the prequels perfectly, and as far as I’m concerned, is canon. I slowly have been giving these projects a chance, but more often than not they are weaker than what came before. For example, I think it was a bold and foolish decision for Dave Filoni to name drop “Heir of the Empire” in Ahsoka (I remember seeing it somewhere) because now you’ve set expectations high that it’ll be better. And it wasn’t, nor do I think the upcoming film will be better.
Awesome awesome awesome description of Star Wars and The EU. I'm a big EU supporter myself and your explanation of why Disney's stories fail to live up to The EU is spot on. I genuinely doubt Disney will come up with a Darth Plagueis story as good as the novel.
@@achaudhari101 You know, I’m not sure why you keep lurking around here trying to either insult people or convince us that we’re wrong. You do realize that you won’t change any of our minds, and I probably won’t be changing yours. And you can keep saying that the EU isn’t canon until you’re blue in the face, but the fact is: I DON’T CARE WHAT LUCASFILM SAYS. I and many others have given them chances to win us over, but they keep failing. You think I want to dislike this stuff? Knowing that all roads lead to Rise of Skywalker, I just can’t accept it. Ahsoka was boring. Kenobi wasn’t that great, and breaks canon (no one can convince me that it makes sense for Obi-Wan to clearly defeat Vader a second time and still lets him live). And I’ll probably try the others, but they just don’t excite me. But I am excited to dig into the large amount of EU material I haven’t read yet. Is that my fault? Or Disney’s for continuously showing contempt for fans and not planning things out, and hiring poor writers? And I’m not claiming that everything in the EU will be perfect or that there won’t be crazy ideas I won’t love… but the thing is, everything I’ve read so far has ranged from pretty good to great. But please, try and convince me. I don’t get it. Convince me that what Disney has done is better than the authors and comic book artists from the EU. Because all it feels like to me is that Disney Star Wars isn’t being made for people like me. They want to attract the “modern audience” that cares more about intersectional politics and people who feel the need to be validated at all times by the characters on screen. It’s pathetic. And if you’re just going to keep lurking and talking down to us, then do us all a favor and leave. You’re not convincing any of us. The EU is superior, and unless Tony Gilroy and other writers of comparable talent are given full reign, I won’t be changing my mind.
@@achaudhari101I don’t get why you keep lurking around here trying to change our minds. You’re not going to, and I’m not going to be able to change your mind. I’ve given some of these projects a chance, but when it feels like they aren’t being written in a way to appeal to fans like me anymore, than why should I keep trying? I’d rather explore the treasure trove of EU material I still have yet to discover. And whether it’s canon or not, let me tell you something: many of us DON’T CARE WHAT LUCASFILM SAYS. But please, go ahead and try to convince me that the EU is worse or should be discarded for the Disney canon. Because clearly we’re missing something, right? Despite the fact that of the EU books and comics I’ve read so far, they’ve ranged from pretty good to great. And of course there will be stories I come across that will have weird concepts or that are kind of boring. But those authors and artists treated the IP with more respect than what I’ve seen from the worst of the new canon. The EU is canon, and unless Tony Gilroy and other writers of comparable talent are given the reigns, I won’t be changing my mind. Disney wants their “modern audience” and they can have it. You don’t seem to realize that it isn’t even anger. It’s that Star Wars is going to continue to have a few decent projects in the middle of many mediocre or terrible projects. Where as with the EU, my experience so far has been opposite. But go ahead, keep trying to convince us that Disney’s canon is superior. But if you’re just going to keep lurking to be a contrarian and insult us, then do us a favor and leave. You can like what you want, and that’s fine. But you’re not going to convince me to accept Disney canon, and certainly not by acting like you have some moral high ground by pointing out prequel hate or by insulting us.
@@kyleerickson4741 I call what you’re doing a beta thing with giving up on Star Wars. Also I’m subbed to Thor so I have a right to be here and I care about SW unlike a lot of the people here that have either given up or are here just to throw a pity party. Prequel hate? Don’t be silly as I love the Prequels. What I’m saying is that the EU is fanfiction to George just like how he views the Sequels as fanfiction. All I hear from you is whining while getting triggered over a fact hence why you wrote that novel of yours. Sounds a tiny bit attention seeking.
You said it so well. Thank you. This is why Lucas Star Wars is timeless. Sure, the visuals and designs and characters help. It not only has the surface level visual spectacle, but also much deeper themes and morals to the story. That's what good storytelling is.
Hey Thor, you mentioned in a previous video about how Yoda's inclusion in The Acolyte has only two possible outcomes, being he will be portrayed as either incompetent or corrupt depending on whether Vanestra lies to him or tells him the truth. A thought occurred to me after seeing Plagueis. A "silver lining" of sorts and I was hoping on your thoughts. So, I can see the situation with Plagueis going ONLY one of two ways. If Plagueis is Qimir's master, that means that both Qimir and/or Osha will be killed by either Plagueis or another potential apprentice (maybe even Palpatine) in the near future in order to maintain the Canon of The Prequel Trilogy. If Plagueis is NOT Qimir's master, that means that Plagueis will kill Qimir and/or Osha because to Plagueis, Qimir would be considered a rival, and there can only be two (like with Sidious confronting Maul at the end of The Clone Wars Season 5). Either way, The Star Wars Galaxy will soon be rid of those two terrable characters. It Is Inevitable.
I argee 100%! I and my late Mom grew as real people becuase of star wars... I as a kid with the OG trilogy on tape and then the rprequals and my mom as a young woman when she saw Starwars in theaters... Which the Jedi as intened can exsit eeven in the modern day it's just hard... My mom died a hero and I got close to the insidus dark... Which the darkside is insdius and will creep up on you over years excetly like what turned anikin into Vader... Anyway thank you for this really needed it!
Star Wars, a great biblical type morality tale for the ages. Choices vs consequences, the slippery slope towards true evil, sacrifice and redemption and more. 👍
Great analyses Thor. I think everything you said was correct, and a little sad. I truly believe people don’t want to be selfless anymore. They’re consumed by wanting to be the center of attention. As someone who serves in the military it’s sad. I was taught and ordered to be selfless, to do the right things. And yet when I ask people to do the same they reject the very idea. But that’s what make Lucas Star Wars so great, cause it shows the true joy and what you can accomplish when you act selfless
Totally agree with you Thor. I also think people can love Star wars for whatever reason. But I feel like if you like it only for the lightsaber fights, why not let us who do care for the deeper meaning in star wars get that inbetween the fights.
I'll take the '77 saber battle between Vader and Obi anytime, everytime than any of those in the Acolyte (though to be fair I've only seen the scenes clipped on YT I'm not watching the show) because it told a story and moved the overall story forward.
I agree with many things you said here. I am disheartened when people miss the point, instead buying into the allure of the power fantasy of the chosen one narrative while ignoring the fact that it is a cautionary tale about valuing the self over others.
Videos like this are the reason why you're one of my top 2 favorite channels on everything Star Wars (the other being Generation Tech), with a mesured and in-depth take on the entire franchise. Frankly, I'm at a point where I believe Lucasfilm is so compromised now that it should just completely be shut down and leave the keys of Star Wars to indie studios who actually care. We've all seen with the 2 books of Visions how multiples studios first in Japan, then all around the world completely understood the assignment that working on Star Wars is a freakkin privilege, and possibly the gig of their career, so they all gave their 200% to it, giving us some of the best Star Wars ever seen ! And frankly, it stretched the Galaxy far far away in so many super interesting directions, far far from the Skywalker family. Seriously, some of these episodes could have been pilot episodes of their own series (thinking about Duel, the Twins, Village Bride, Lop & Ocho, and The 9th Jedi - btw, having a much more compelling explanation and execution of lightsaber colors than in Acolyte - for book 1, and Screechers Reach, The Spy Dancer, Journey to the Dark Head, & Aau's song for book 2). I'm looking forward for such initiative to actually become canon instead of being just fringe experiment. Imagine if all these series actually came to fruition, just how much richer and liberated Star Wars's universe and worldbuilding could feel !
Main point I take from Star Wars is that the Jedi were wrong about attachment. They make Anakin their enemy that way and Luke's attachment brings balance to the force.
I agree with everything! I will add 2 things only: 1. The meaning is deeper then the outreach of one's choices. It is the hero's journey with many hints how to make good choices as being part of space and time 2. Prequels were about authoritarism. Jedi failed more then just not being ready - they got close to power & they disregarded the emotional side of humans too much. So there is again deeper layer here
Postmodernism is engrained in our current culture, and I think it's the culprit. I think a huge part has to do with the philosophy of "Postmodernism" which is a philosophy where everything is deconstructed. Lucas was inspired by Joeseph Campell's Monomyth "The Heroes Journey" and the philosophy that came with it, which was "romantic" and spiritual, and believes there is good and evil, unlike "Postmodernism". Postmodernism deconstructs everything, instead of truth being 100% factual, everyone has their own truth (selfless vs selfish), instead of gender being binary, there are people who identify outside that, nothing is factual because everything is relative, hence good can be evil, evil can be good and you can be both. Postmodernism teaches to forget the past "kill it if you have to". Some film directors use Postmodernism through their movies such as Rian Johnson and Quinten Tarantino. I think this is the difference between people who love Lucas SW and those who love Disney SW. I hate Postmodernism, I find it very harmful, but that is just my personal opinion, if you love it awesome.
What do you think of Kreia's view of the Force with respect to the Jedi and Sith? I found her take to be very interesting and complex, and kind of wish that Disney had introduced someone like her if they wanted to add more "greyness" to the philosophy of the Force.
1:24 I respectfully disagree with what you think George meant in his movies. I mean he mite have meant for Star Wars to mean one thing. But just like how adults argue Star Wars is not just for kids. I’d argue it means many things to many people. And this “You can like what you like that’s fine.” Well, it loses its intent when you fellow it up with, “You missed the meaning of Star Wars.” Look George Lucas’ Star Wars will always be here. It’s not going anywhere. And as much as I don’t like the Last Jedi. I do agree with Yoda’s line. “We are what they grow beyond.”
Star Wars hating has been going on since 1977. Look at all the bad reviews for the first movie. Some reviewers thought it was stupid and made for kids. The first 6 Star Wars has tons and tons of plot holes because George was adding stuff along the way for the Prequels which were then never mentioned in the Originals which happens years later like Qui-Gon Jinn and midi-chlorians which Obi-Wan and Yoda never speak about in the OGs. You would think Obi-Wan would mention his former master at least once in the OGs but he’s never mentioned. Not even in private with Yoda. And if you want to go even further, where the hell is Ahsoka in all of this? Never mentioned at all in any of the 9 movies. Filoni makes it seem she’s so significant. R2-D2 did more for the rebellion than Ahsoka did. Star Wars has tons of continuity issues. In 3 of the 9 films, they used the same planet killer Death Star plot. Two of those from the OGs. You should check The Acolyte subreddit with people liking the show. One person said it’s at least taking risks and killing off most of the main characters or at least the so-called good guys. But there’s an interesting discussion if Sol deserved to get killed or not? Was he more bad than how many of us perceive him? Bad as in doing bad things. Not necessarily evil. *Thank* *you,* *The* *Acolyte* www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/kb7vWMWtxF You might have a different opinion on it when reading some of the more positive comments for it. Could The Acolyte be misunderstood? Or could it be so hated now but be appreciated years later like what the Prequels became? I’ve seen positive comments for The Acolyte coming from Star Wars fans of at least 30-40 years. And thirsty females / shippers like this Oshamir stuff as their dark side Reylo. I still think The Acolyte sucks and is the worst thing that ever came out of Star Wars. But, I might compare it to when I owned an Atari Jaguar. I thought it was the worst video game console I ever had but I still have a soft spot for it. Sometimes being so bad can be looked upon as a cult classic years later. There are tons of people who love Godzilla movies and get a joy watching cheesy, campy fights with guys in rubber suits. Everybody processes information and media content differently. The few positive aspects that The Acolyte did give us are… - Qimir / The Stranger - Best lightsaber fights since the Prequels - Darth Plagueis Plagueis could lead us to a young Palpatine series someday. What Star Wars Meg needs to talk about next is Darth Plagueis possibly being in a Season 2 of The Acolyte if we do get one. It’s the big WTF/OMG moment from Ep. 8. Yoda is my second favorite SW character ever but I didn’t care about his appearance. And more Abeloth talk in Season 2 of Ahsoka. Star Wars Meg and Allen Xie of Generation Tech are at best when talking about Legends and stuff deeper into the lore. Shows like Ahsoka and The Acolyte are more like this providing more of the mystique of Star Wars than say Andor. The first Star Wars movie couldn’t beat a rom-com for Best Picture. George Lucas was always a hack of a writer. Zero Oscars for writing or Best Pic. Have the haters watched any actual SW shows? www.reddit.com/r/TheAcolyte/s/WIcQ64oXT2 I will admit The Acolyte did have superior fight choreography than Ahsoka. Not saying it was better than Ahsoka as an actual series, but it had far better fights. Does anybody remember when Maul kicks Obi-Wan to a lower floor? You can see zero contact. th-cam.com/video/qo__6MZIg6U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=At6rA5Epw0aKJWbi My Disney+ SW Series Rankings 1. Andor 2. The Mandalorian 3. Ahsoka 4. Obi-Wan Kenobi 5. The Book of Boba Fett 6. The Acolyte ^ Or take the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and the first season of Andor and throw the rest in the trash.
Terrific explanation of the Jedi and the balance of the force. It's clear KK and Head don't have the respect they want but didn't earn. Therefore, they play the Sith to the fans Jedi. The fans want something positive. Stories that Respect their history, Love the characters, and are Well Thought out. KK and Head want to Destoy the history, Hurt the legacy of the characters, and Kill the enjoyment of the fans.
Have to say you hit the nail on the head. We are living in a selfish and self centered world where it is all about me , my truth, and what I want. We have lost the focus on being sacrificial and the importance of putting the needs of others first. Wow. This explains why there are those who actually have enjoyed this show. The lines of good and evil have been blurred for so long that people are immune to recognizing right from wrong in these characters. As an OH fan from 1977, this show truly destroyed what Star Wars was intended to be about.
11:40 And that the Jedi were being to strict with their Order’s “Code” and not listening to the Will of the Force. It’s their tying themselves to tradition and being the Republic’a lapdogs that put them at odds with what the Force wanted of them.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
I was a little too young to see star wars in the cinema when it originally came out, but I'd always assumed Luke defeated the emperor. When I finally got to see rotj, my mind was completely blown in that final scene, where Vader watches the emperor torturing and (almost) killing his son.
It was such a powerful moment and when he decided that he was going to save his son, turn on his master.... amazing. Luke truly saved his father, through love- not force of arms or skill.
It was the love between a father and his son that defeated the empire, not x wings, not light savers, not troops or starships,...but love.
What a powerful message and what a powerful story- anakin was truly the one to bring balance to the force- by putting his childs needs before his own, through selflessness - which his son taught him.
Now compare that with what Disney has served up in the form of the acoylte.
Such wasted possibilities, such wasted money.
It were the rebels that defeated the Epire not Luke or Vader. The Death Star would have blown up no matter how the fight between Luke and Vader / Palpatine ended. Redeeming Anakin was just the cherry on top.
@@DomenikNowak
True, but it was still love that defeated the Emperor.
It’s not wrong to dive into the faults and moral ambiguity of heroic figures. ANDOR does that masterfully with the character of Luthen and Mon Mothma. They have to sacrifice not only their loved ones to a certain degree, but their own morals and lives. I kept questioning is Luthen a bad guy for putting the lives of 50 men to protect his identity and informant? But what he’s doing is also kinda what’s necessary for the rebellion to thrive. This is the type of writing that I love, and why Andor earns my praise for questioning the Rebellion’s motives, but not the cause itself. It’s still made clear it was necessary. The acolyte just tells you what to think, what to feel about the Jedi, rather than getting you to think about it
I agree. As I said in another comment, having well written stories with more complex characters is welcome. But the morals and philosophies at Star Wars’ core needs to be maintained. The Jedi are imperfect beings aligning themselves with the good. Don’t criticize the entire order.
Andor takes place during the Empire (dictatorship), while The Acolyte and the prequels take place during the Republic (democracy). The most idealistic person in a democracy becomes pragmatic in a dictatorship. I'm from Eastern Europe, and I was born under a dictatorship. You sacrifice your loved ones and even your own values so that you, your family, and many others will one day be free, and so that no one else will have to make these sacrifices. Andor is amazing and perfectly in tune with George's vision.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
@@ashleybanks-wm4cgIt’s hard to tell, is this sarcasm? 🤔
Now compare that to today's audiences who are all about "resistance " on Twitter but then crumble at being miss gandered. They will argue about everything but will not fight for anything and have no clue of self sacrifice.
For all the talk anyone here think today's youth will volunteer to storm Normandy as was done 4 generation ago? Their idea of fighting is meme about former president!
In the books, there's a part where Luke's son Ben is reflecting on a lesson his father taught him. Basically, if you're stuck with two bad alternatives, pick the third one; in short, strive to do right even when every other standard of reason is telling you to compromise.
Compare that to what we have now.
Yes exactly. Thats what I love about post ROTJ in the Expanded universe. They dealt with a lot of moral issues but those writers were so much better.
Star Wars needs to be put on a 10 year hiatus.
Couldn’t agree more.
Ditto.
Until Disney (or someone better suited) understands what Star Wars is all about. We need someone who cares.
No point. Darth Kennedy will still be there. Waiting.
I finally figured it out.
KK is trying to bleed out Lucas-Films, putting them in the Red, as any Sith would do
when presented with something useful to a Jedi, like the Kyber Crystal of their light saber!
We got villains in charge of the greatest stories of all time now. Villains hate heroes. Those plots are not coincidence.
Filoni and Favreau aren’t villains.
^They also aren’t in charge (and, besides, Filoni’s more of a “Renfield”. Not an outright villain, but a relatively slavish follower of a certain “villainous element”, shall we say.🧛🏻♀️😉).
@@achaudhari101 Nope, they are those imperial officers who "only follow orders".
@Macielos1 Nope. They aren’t that at all. They’re the guys trying to save the franchise BTS. If you think they’re villains, then either you have a goldfish mentality on their works or you’re that petty in a stupid way.
I was thinking about how aspects of the show mirror real life. Those in power are protecting their power by covering up what happened. Is this an allegorical confession by Headland?
Aside from everything else they missed, Lucas also ensured that the Sith always look like zombies. He explained that this is his visual metaphor to demonstrate why being bad is bad. He didn't want his bad guys to be the cool ones. They look like zombies because evil is not the right way to go. The fact that Disney has them still looking like models with beautiful skin really proves that they have no idea what they are doing on any conceivable level at all.
Well apparently he changed his mind on that since Dooku didn’t look like a Zombie.
@@achaudhari101Duku wasn't trying to take over the galaxy. He was just playing both sides and hedging his bets. That's why the emperor had him killed when he had outlived his usefulness.
Your argument was that the Sith are like zombies and I’m pointing out that not everyone was like a zombie physically. Bane didn’t even look like a zombie.
Regardless, Lucas’s ideal of evil being evil and good being good (he was very clear on this) doesn’t jive with modern Hollywood sensibilities and ideology. That’s why we’re seeing that aspect eroded from the Star Wars mythos.
i think its more that evil has a tendency to reflect outwards. duku didn't need to look zombified cuz they were already Dracula lol. but in all seriousness eventually the rot will make its way to the surface and leave its mark, however it manifests. it always does. just look at the eyes. windows to the soul indeed.
It's the same thing with NuTrek. The new writers simply don't understand what made these franchises....unique. For Trek it was the 'hopeful' future. For Wars it is the Good vs Evil AND Lucas's philosophy.
Now we have dark dystopian Trek and Wars with the Sith and Jedi morally equal.
Without those unique features, these franchises are....generic, and honestly not very good.
I think that’s what’s happening. We’re getting generic sci-fi, shaped by the ideology, morality (or lack thereof) and sensibilities of modern Hollywood writers, that just happens to have our favourite IP names slapped on them.
Exactly, I really hate nutrek, I love the old one
The New Trek writers (JJ's team) are NOT smart, they're the guys who failed science in school and they hate science because they don't understand it so they invent all sort of nonsense.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
@paulcassidy2802 Oh man is Trek insufferable now. I used to watch TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT on network TV as a kid and into college. NuTrek is just awful and unwatchable.
Now, I have to wait until my kids are asleep if I want to watch Picard s3 (the only good thing ‘NuTrek’) because of the violence and cussing. Anything Alex Kurztman touches is awful, and I do not believe any Starfleet officers in his shows are competent enough to be running a starship let alone even be from the future. Everyone acts and talks like they are from modern LA, and honestly it’s all so infuriating because it has no charm. Kurtzman has been the worst thing to happen to Trek since Stuart Baird…
"What separates good and bad people are not the mistakes they make but the actions they take to fix those mistakes."
- H.JG
Yeah and Sol made all the worst mistakes and made the worst decisions possible to try to fix those mistakes he got what he deserved in the end
@ashleybanks-wm4cg sol deserved to have his name dragged as a murderer and traitor to his own so that vernestra could cover up her own mistakes with her former padawan?
Sol acted on information he had and was given by Mae. He saw what he thought was abuse, he was told by Mae that the girls needed to be sacrificed and he witnessed the dark side mark left on maes fore head. Should he have gone to the council? Yes. But indara told him not too.
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg he really didn't get "what he deserved" ya he was dumb but the writing was horrible... so I don't even wanna get into all that shit because it hurts
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg Because he’s everything the Jedi aren’t. The quote doesn’t point at the Acolyte, it points at the anti-Jedism in the fanbase that Leslye definitely shares for her own reason. The idea that Jedi ‘don’t love’, for example, is a classic case of anti-Jedi bs. You ‘love him as a father’ but you’re somehow worried he doesn’t feel a similar sentiment? For all the criticisms of the prequels that are said - so often being rooted in something no matter how inaccurate said-interpretation is, literally nothing was ever said or remotely implied that the Jedi don’t feel whatsoever or love besides the cases of romantic relations. It’d make more sense if they instead assumed, albeit stupidly so, that Jedi aren’t allowed to have a rock collection.
@@TitusAndromadon none of that is justified because just like youre doing now Sol made all that up in his head and his motivation was selfish What abuse did he witness? The gurls were well taken care of why would he act on information from a child? The same information you're creating out of thin air
They don’t even realize so called “Bad Jedi” are just the Sith.
Or the Dark Jedi
@@charlez7416 At this point I don’t think the writers wouldn’t able tell the difference they both use dark side for evil intentions both needs to be stop. Plus I don’t think regular people in that galaxy wouldn’t tell difference between the Jedi and Sith.
@@jaieregilmore971 Yes however as Sith use thier power from evil, selfish intentions and have certain code of believes. The individual Dark Jedi doesn't really follow any certain rules and sometimes can have good or noble intentions that lead to the suffering of everyone around. Tbh Dark Jedi were only invented as to have Luke fight someone in the legends as the Sith were gone but Luke needed a Dark Side opponents, or for the video games like Dark Forces 2, Jedi outcast, jedi academy and so many others. Examples like Desann or Jerec are quite obvious.
Sith is a religion.
The Sith is a belief.
I’m 49 , to me Star Wars was a feeling , it made me feel hopeful ! The journey, the message, the redemption!
The hero's journey is now a dead concept these days. It's not about going through trials and proving your worth. Now everyone is special and equal because someone gave them a 5 second speech about how amazing they are.
Star Wars can't keep telling the same story over and over again. Believe me, they've tried.
Thor is 100% spot on:
"Maybe part of the reason why some out there really did seem to enjoy something like The Acolyte is maybe because they like the idea of the Selfless Jedi being torn down in order to feel better about their own selfishness, their own desire to be a little more Sith-like."
Or maybe the Jedis ways have been flawed from the beginning and you guys never realized it
@@ashleybanks-wm4cg That's just Woke retcon crap talking.
@@chengmunwai What the hell does "woke" have to do with ANYTHING? That's a completely meaningless term these days. It used to just be a grammatically poor way of saying "be aware of what's happening," like "keep your eyes open." Now it's just a stupid label people stick on anything they don't like for any reason.
So, Ashley Banks, what criticisms do you have with the Jedi's ways? Luke did obviously take issue with having no attachments, but he did embrace the selflessness of the Jedi. What's wrong with that?
Given the lady in charge's past associations comments, she definitely idemtifies more with the sith and wants them to be the good guys.
@@Corn_Pone_Flicksthere are hundreds if not thousands of words that are used colloquially in ways that don't perfectly match their dictionary definitions, "woke" being among them.
Most commonly from what I've seen, it refers to someone, topic, or thing in favor of intersectional critical theory politics. "Intersectional" being the intersection of identities e.g. woman, black, LGBT; where common interests have them work towards a mutual goal. "Critical theory" i.e. conflict theory, which is about how how two or more groups, one representing the status quo, operate throughout history exclusively opposed to each other e.g. bourgeois and proletariat.
All together, "woke" represents an allaince of minority identities against the conventional, status quo, or majority identity.
As I get older and seek to grow as a person, I gain more and more respect for the original Star Wars movies, especially the original story of Luke Skywalker, who started as a somewhat selfish young man who looked to the future because he wanted to be someone great. Then he became a famous hero, and let it go to his head, he had to be the one to save his friends because he didn’t trust his friends to save themselves, and because of this he failed and was humbled.
In the end Luke learns what it truly means to love, rather than look to be loved. He doesn’t need to be the one to kill the emperor, blow up the Death Star, or save his friends, because he trusts his friends, he goes to the Death Star for one reason, to save his father! In the end Luke becomes a true hero, not because he beat the bad guy, because he loved the bad guy, he didn’t save the day, he saved his father. The humility, compassion, love, and growth of Luke is what it truly means to be a hero and what we are often missing in media today.
I think the key point here is that Luke has actual conflict as a character. He has fears and ambitions and makes mistakes. He is interesting. Characters like Sol are also interesting for the same reasons. I don't know why everyone is freaking out about the fact that Jedi are also people too. Why would Jedi not have the spectrum of human struggle as other people? Why are people freaking out over the darker characters having motives besides "evil because evil"? It's so confusing
@@martinmp19I think one of the big issues with current Star Wars is not the message that morality is complicated, like you and I have both said Luke was complicated. I think the issue is that 1. The newer characters aren’t written as well as the classic characters, and 2. Because it is not written well the moral message presented by the writer/Director makes it seem like it’s ok to except becoming evil, rather than learning to grow in order to become good.
OT: a tale about making the right choices in life. (Han saving Luke and the rebels, Leia not snitching on the rebellion, Luke not giving in to the dark side, Lando trying to save Han, Vader saving his son.)
PT: a cautionary tale about making the wrong/selfish choices in life. (Complacency of the Jedi, bureaucracy of theSenate, Anakin accepting the dark side and betraying the Jedi for selfish reasons, Anakin killing unarmed Dooku, Anakin killing an entire village )
ST: I still don’t know what this trilogy was trying to say…
ST was just OT and PT reboot made for modern audience 😅😅
It's so frustrating to see all of these valid criticisms brushed aside and dismissed as "haters hating" by people who just accept anything with a Star Wars label on it. Is it so far beyond the scope of people's imaginations to believe that the $180 million that went into this show could have gone into something that had everything they liked about Acolyte (shiny lightsabers and two-second meaningless cameos) AND good writing?
@@dakota_kramer well said! I noticed that outside of troll accounts the defence has quieted. Especially here on Thor’s channel. But yeah, really makes you wonder if they’re just paid shills.
That's Disney shills for you. They'll eat up whatever Disney throws at them as long as it has a Star Wars logo on it and not ask questions and not call out bad writing / inconsistencies. And of course, they'll get overly excited every time Disney brings in legacy characters in such poorly written shows just to feed them soulless nostalgia bait with no meaning. Like when they brought in Darth Plagueis and Yoda in a show that is so unbelievably bad, it just made me roll my eyes.
There's a video by Mr Grizzy that shows TH-camrs reacting TROS, and they get so overly excited about a horribly made movie.
It gets nuttier because a lot of those people believe the writing IS good. Any legit criticism has been deflected to me as nitpicking or missing the point. They will literally fill in the gaps themselves and say it makes sense as long as you make the connections yourself. It's bizarre
A lot of "fans" are activists eager to tear down the old ways as patriarchy and gleefully enjoy trolling the long time Fandom
@@GeekazonDeals Makes me think these are the people watching CW instead of HBO. Vampire Diaries instead of Sopranos.
I consider the Jedi to be the ideal of heroism not just because of the good deeds they do and try to do, but also most Jedi understand the sacrifice they make by being a Jedi. I think it makes more sense the Jedi over the millennia to realize that having a family leads to a conflict of interest. Also if a Jedi wants to leave they can. No jedi will be hunted down for leaving the order if they fell in love and decided to pursue said love.
Seeing the acolyte paint the Jedi as bad guys is sad. Evil should never be justified
They weren’t Saints even in the Prequels and in Clone Wars.
@@achaudhari101 just because I can’t be a Jedi doesn’t mean the rules and the lifestyle of a Jedi is wrong or flawed
@@achaudhari101The Jedi were flawed but still good in The Prequels. The Acolyte makes them incompetent douchebags who act almost like the Sith thanks to bad writing.
@@Jedishill680just ignore him. As for your take - it's absolutely based. Jedi in prequels were just a reminder that good people make mistakes, and are not in any way protected from pride. But they have always been good, and it's cool to see people in our day and age advocating for the jedi
Not as based when you consider in Legends they murdered an entire species.
I think Yoda summed it up best: "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter". This message is what modern society either doesn't understand or hates.
That’s my favorite line in Star Wars. Literally gave me goosebumps as a 7 year old in 1980, and just now when I read your comment.
hates.
It's hard sell the new Apple 'upgrade' to luminous beings.
I just can't believe how ridiculous and dull they made Yoda after the OT.
Lightsabers ....ha
Bouncing around like a ball...ha
Adventures....ha
Being oblivious to the death of Jedi(or regular people) ...ha
Where did it go "Great warrior? Wars don't make one great"....
They (even Lucas in the PT) really made him a "great" warrior .
Although I don’t love the movie. Yoda also said, “We are what they grow beyond.”
It's like we should call it Galactic Conflicts under the Disney umbrella.
Yes! 😃 You have convinced me. But it must not be said with disgust like They say "Legends'", but with mirth only something that is total rubbish can manifest, like "The Room."
You are 100% spot-on, I'm in a bunch of discord servers where there are channels talking about TV shows and movies and I've talked to a few people who liked The Acolyte overall and invariably the conversation broke down to them saying the Jedi were flawed/bad all along and some even were adamant that this was George Lucas's intention from the start.
Another trait I've seen is that a bunch of them saw the world in pretty much black & white and that's why they thought the Jedi were bad. As in you make a mistake = you are bad.
I also need to point out that "doing whatever you can to succeed" is probably the dominant mentality in Hollywood where actors (and especially actresses) are notoriously bullied into doing stuff they're not okay with by being told "if you refuse you just don't want it badly enough and someone else will take your place".
We live in a screwed up world where the most corrupt people dominate media & politics and constantly preach to normal, decent people about morality and values.
Star Wars is about Redemption and Accepting people for who we are(OG 6). Thats my opinion pre video.
Theres a Yoda Quote I love and always try and live by, “You must train yourself to let go of what you fear to lose the most”. It’s a truly beautiful quote with an unachievable goal. Yoda told this to Anakin after his visions of Losing Padme, and while its good advice, Anakin needed love, he needed a Father, So while it was the right thing for Yoda to say it wasn’t for a Jedi like Anakin. It’s truly beautiful man and I desperately miss this level of depth.
I waited for a long time to see an Asian Jedi, Disney gave me Sol. The first thing he did after seeing Osha was get attached. Not only that, he was so lame that Osha, Mae, Witch mom, and even the lil beaver caught him off guard. Then right before he dies, he allowed his adoptive daughter to embrace the darkside, "it's okay". Fuck.
It's a shame because that actor learned English specifically for this role and this is how it ends
The failure of Acolyte makes me even more excited to finally see Andor Season two. Let’s just hope that there’s no studio interference, like how Mandalorian Season Three had
S3 was overhated.
@@achaudhari101 I respectfully disagree
Having watched it I don’t agree since I believe it does add a good amount to the story like with Mandalore being back in the hands of the Mandalorians. Not to mention Bo and Din were always on screen together so the whole notion that the season was the “Bo Katan show” was so inaccurate and dumb. Personally that hatred stemmed from two things: Gina Carano getting fired and fans taking the frustrations out on that season and Boba Fett being hated which I also argue was overhated as well.
@@achaudhari101 the storyline was all over the place, in my opinion
The only one that was all over the place was Episode 3 and that didn’t go anywhere other than us seeing what people in the Empire now do under the New Republic.
This might be your best video yet. You totally took me back 40 freaking years behind to the day I discovered Star Wars and felt these things. And unfortunately had to realize no one around me felt them. Life is like an ocean, the deeper you go, the scarcer the population.
Thank god for Legends. The true canon.
If you dislike or hate the jedis, maybe Star wars is not the right franchise for you. Jedi are iconic. You have a mixture of monks/samurai/knights that can use the unique magic "the force". Even the weapons are iconic. I mean with what do you even replace the jedis?
Removing jedis from Star wars is like removing wizards from Harry potter or removing dinosaurs from jurassic park.
Say that to Andor or Rogue One.
@@achaudhari101 not a lot of people watched Andor compared the the larger movies. Same for rouge one. I love that movie but still compared the larger universe it’s just a blip. The ogs and the prequels are much better by any metric. Money wise popularity wise. Cultural impact. Your argument is what about isms and Strawman.
Got nothing to do with views or money but rather it doesn’t need to always be about the Jedi/Sith yet you kinda wished it did. That’s like saying people like the bounty hunters more than the Jedi/Sith or the space battles and you thinking they’re stupid. Newsflash, Star Wars is multiple things.
Who is removing Jedis from Star Wars? Also, did you watch the prequel trilogy where the Jedi were bumbling idiots and let the Sith return right under their noses because of their hubris? The Jedi Order being flawed (not individual Jedi) is exactly what George Lucas wanted to tell us. Do you even Star Wars? LOL
@@davidring681Just ignore him
@Thorskywalker you nailed it, very well said. You truly understand what the story means to me and many others. Thank you for articulating it so well. It takes many years to develop that kind of understanding a story like Star Wars, and the Jedi can have on somebody when they pay attention to the deeper meaning of it. Watching your heroes overcome the hardest times. It can be inspirational. And unless you have put forth the effort to see it in real life, it’s hard to explain it to anybody who doesn’t see that of which you just described. Haha Disney should have all new writers watch this video in an orientation meeting before they write anymore Star War shows. Thanks for your efforts keep’em coming!
To contrast with the Prequels, the Jedi in The Acolyte should have been portrayed as Heroes. The Jedi visit another planet and are treated like rockstars, where the people come to them for healing, wisdom, favors, etc.. It should be an Age where the Jedi are like the soldiers returning from World War II where they don't have to pay taxes and people treat the Jedi like royalty. And the Jedi should have been shown as living up to this ideal - brokering deals that are good for all, help the disadvantaged and work for the good of the galaxy and society. An age when honor and your word meant something, and a deal could be done with a handshake. A time when institutions worked, and worked for the good of the whole. And in hiding, the Sith, in secret, also operate, but using much meager and smaller means, and with subterfuge. The galaxy would have been like the world that George grew up in, where there were more do-gooders than you could count, and people were much more engaged.
Hey Thor, You got me thinking about whether the “point of Star Wars” is reflected well by any show in Disney’s era. I think it pops up here and there in Mando, and some of the animation but I believe “Andor” really hits it as a core theme. Andor presents a similar sort of moral compass that the originals did, perhaps in a more adult, larger world way. The line from Nemik’s manifesto “Oppression is the mask of fear” could easily have fit right into any of Lucas’s films. There are many others: Marva’s testament, Kino’s selfless act of the prison break out, and so on . I think that’s one of the reasons many of us consider it to have a place up with the originals. Yes great writing, acting, etc, but there’s a universal theme of hope, compassion and perseverance that flows through that whole show. Would love to know your thoughts.
Im sure its no coincidence either that these sith posess much in the way of material poseesions compared to the jedi. With sidious it was the republic, for maul it was his crime syndicate on mandalore,for pleaguis it was damask holdings, for tenabraus it was his engineering works.
If you’ve ever seen the empire of dreams documentary, it talks about how films at the time Star Wars released were anti-hero films. But then when Star Wars came into the mix, it mentions that movies were fun again. Now we’re in a similar situation lol
Thor, once again, you hit the nail on the head.
The message and themes of Star Wars have always resonated with me as a young man. The world continues to grow smaller and more cynical and it's sad that ideas like "objective good" and selflessness seems to be more and more like an ideal of yesteryear.
My point being: Art is suppose to reflect the culture and time it's made in. The Acolyte is painfully indicative of individuals within the culture and time in which it was made.
Hey Thor, The Jedi were our role models at a time when all we had were toxic action heroes. Violence was a last resort. Obi-Wan sacrificed himself to save Leia. In an age of Rambo, Steven Segal, Clint Eastwood, and Chuck Norris, the Jedi gave us something deeper, something higher, for our aspirations.
Toxicity wins, I guess.
Wow what a great video. This is a video to bookmark and keep going back to...not just about Star Wars but philosophy of life itself. Well done.
As I mentioned earlier - this is Star wars as if written by Ayn Rand. Darth Gecko: "Greed is good!"
I had never understood the expression “it made me want to puke”. I always took it as creative hyperbole. Now I understand it.
Yes The Acolyte may cause Emotional Damage.
This is hands down the best explanation of what George created and the reason I love Star Wars so much
Good and evil exists in all of us, it’s all about the hard choices one makes to keep in the light because the dark side as yoda said is basically “the easier way.” Jedi are supposed to be beings of highly tested, wise, and resilient character. The fall of the Jedi seems to be part of a renewal cycle which “The Chosen One” needed to bring balance to. Luke’s New Jedi Order should’ve been a perfect way of rebuilding how good can still win despite evil pervading every corner and cranny of life. The difference is that Jedi have an extraordinary way of overcoming evil due to the trials they consistently face.
Hey Thor, would you ever be willing to talk about how Star Wars has impacted you personally? In this video you talk about Lucas’s original intention for SW was to reinvigorate spirituality in the young and prepare them for finding their purpose in the world and asking the bigger questions about life. Since you grew up with the OT and would most likely have been right in that target audience, I was wondering if SW did those things for you personally and if so in what ways? I’d love to know your experiences with all of those things and anything else you feel comfortable sharing. Your videos are great and even though I don’t always watch every new SW show I put a lot of stock in your opinions on them.
The High Republic was meant to be a 'clean' era where its writers can do anything they want. It's the one era in which you really shouldn't use the Sith directly, because it's the era when we know the Banite Sith are plotting in the shadows. But the struggle of the light and the dark, of selfless connection and ego driven domination, is so fundamental to Star Wars that the High Republic couldn't stay away from it for long. Even if this take on it in The Acolyte is warped.
The Acolyte’s flaws go beyond Star Wars. This is one that caters between writing Star Wars and story writing in general. The least severe issue with the Acolyte is that it takes place too early in the established timeline for a Jedi/Sith story. The Acolyte is an absolute and the biggest blatant disregard of Star Wars and established Star Wars canon yet. It confirms everything where speculation still lingered: Disney, Kennedy and the people under them genuinely have no interest in making Star Wars and have no care for consistency or established canon. They want to turn Star Wars into something it isn’t.
The problem with the acolyte is how it represents the "sides" in that struggle. The high republic, as "clean" of an era as it is still has content around it. It's called the high republic for a reason, this was when the Jedi were at their peak and the galaxy was generally peaceful and prosperous because the Jedi were acting selflessly and following the will of the force. The acolyte paints the whole concept of the Jedi as a corrupt and fraudulent institution, which is inconsistent with previous ideas that the Jedi (at least as an ideal concept) were role models to be looked up to. In addition, there are many ways to portray the struggle between light and dark. All that needed to be done was to not give the Jedi a reason to suspect the sith were on the rise again, but that's exactly what ended up happening. It now seems totally ridiculous to imagine that after these events, the events of the prequels could possibly take place unless no one in the Jedi had any functioning brain cells
It was supposed to be a “clean” era where they couldn’t ruin beloved characters. And yet they still managed to destroy or harm Anakin, Ki Adi Mundi, Darth Bane, and Yoda. That’s impressive even for these morons
It's fine to use the Sith directly as long as the constraints of the time period are kept. The Sith are lurking in the shadows, blending in with the galaxy at large and not being a public threat to either the Jedi or the Republic. That doesn't mean they won't encounter the Jedi during this period but that any skirmish would not draw the attention of the people at the top of the Jedi Order or the Republic bureaucracy.
@docrobo360 that is easily understood unless your problem is really something else.
I think Headland (and some new writers) got a summary of "What is Star Wars about?" that included a hypo. Instead of Good vs Evil, they got Good is Evil....lol
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
@@MaxRamos8 Yeah, talk about totally not getting what the SW universe is about, and the rules that define it. Next directors/writers should have to submit to public questioning as part of their hiring, lol.
For me this is stated/explained almost exactly why it doesn’t feel like Star Wars anymore. We went from Obi Wan saying the Jedi were “The Guardians of Peace and Justice” to where we see their shortcomings but they stood for good despite those to now the Jedi are conniving, teenage type drama, manipulative selfish villains essentially. Where’s the lesson? Where’s the hope? Where’s the spirit? Where’s the hero’s journey? George Lucas once said a special effect by itself is a pretty boring thing. You need a compelling story with characters that stand for something. Well Disney LF never really learned that because they took a lightsaber, a robe and a name and thinks that’s what makes Star Wars .
You know Lucas changed his mind a lot right? I mean his favorite arc in Clone Wars was the droid arc. So that makes no difference when the creator is very lax on a lot of things. Also it needs to “feel” like Star Wars in order for it to be Star Wars? That makes no sense.
@@achaudhari101 so if you were a huge James Bond fan, and you were old enough to have been around for most of them, accepted that they’ve changed with each new actor and updated with modern times, that you still were a huge fan through all of that, and I came on board, and made Bond be a pacifist who didn’t want to carry a weapon, laid on a couch of a therapist to work through his problems , didn’t want to go to other parts of the world to solve the mission that you would be ok with that? I would have changed the main elements of James Bond. Changed why many Bond fans watch them. I should have just came up with my own story and not hijacked the name James Bond. So that movie would not feel like a James Bond movie even with the name on it. So how does that not make sense?
@@johnpoulton9446 Not monk pacifist if that’s what you mean but a therapy session detailing his past would be interesting.
Thank you for the spot on summary. Since the beginning of this series it was clear this was their trajectory. I can understand somewhat of an attempt to modernize the storytelling in a way, showing all sides by focusing on the "pain, fear, and suffering" that may seem to justify one's path at the time. But what's important is showing the consequences of what following that path brings - more suffering.
This also helps summarize what I love with what was done with Andor. They dove into the backstory of the rebellion and the true sacrifice and selflessness required to support the greater cause while also showing the hard decisions and challenges of morality that must be answered when trying to support that cause. Additionally, questions are posed regarding the radical trajectory that can be taken in attempting to support a cause, which can grey the lines. Transversely, we're shown the other side of the coin in the the empire character's storyline. We're given some understanding of their motives, mostly based on selfishness and self benefit, power, and control. These characters are not glorified but still are deeply interesting. While the Andor story is not quite as black and white as light vs dark, Sith vs Jedi, it is clearly imposed who we should be supporting. None of this conflicted pressure to be in support of these girls who are clearly murderers and diving into the dark.
Hey Thor, great video. Finally someone saying what needed to be said
Nerd Cookies also gave a very good final review.
May the Thread R.I.P.
What I mean is the older and bolder I get the more I seek the story and message of the media I consume. If the message is off I can't enjoy the content I'm watching. Sadly this time it's star wars. "You were meant to destroy the Sith, not join them!!" That quote was powerful! Gave me chills. But that era is over unfortunately. R.I.P.
I also wanna know how people can criticize Reylo but like osha x Qimir and think it’s well written. It’s literally the same thing but worse and more rushed. I can understand why Rey liked Kylo cause he had inner conflict. Qimir is pure fucking evil and gleefully killed osha’s friends in front of her and she didn’t give a fuck. Hell he even tried to kill her by throwing a lightsaber at her. I don’t get it man. Why can’t both be criticized equally?
But he's hot
they can both be criticized equally and millions of star wars fans are doing it. you cannot expect acceptance of logical criticism to be adopted universally.
That's easy. She saw the dude's Schwartz and decided, "I can fix him!"
Kylo helped to kill billions of people and they tried to do a redemption arc for him.
Qimir is unapologetically lawful evil and matches Osha's true orientation. Their relationship makes 100 times more sense.
Strangely enough even the title of show tells it. Akolyte is a title, orignally of the chatholic clergy, signifies a low hierarchical standing in an organization. In the context of SW, particularly since the game SWTOR, a candidate for becoming Sith. This is, in the time frame of Star Wars, a fairly old fashioned concept. Acolytes were a thing that was used thousands of years ago.
Can you imagine children watching the Acolyte and wanting to role play as any of these characters in their backyard? Lol, I don’t think so.
The tone and theme of the Acolyte would've sat much better had it been told from the POV of the Sith. It would make sense that the story is trying to deconstruct and de-mythologize the Jedi because that is how the Sith view them.
It could've been that Osha/Mae or some other Main character is struggling whether to give in to the easy path to power and self-fulfillment that the Dark side often tempts you with and have that contradict with the temperance, patience, and selflessness that the Jedi often emulate. Having Jedi Master Sol be conflicted and act on a deeper sense of attachment was a good character trait but it would've been more impactful had Sol been the convenient excuse that Osha seen that the Jedi aren't as infallible as they often are. That the Jedi are capable of mistakes or making tough decisions and are capable of bending their morals if it means that the greatest good is achieved in the end. Then the Sith can exploit that weakness to turn Osha to the dark side. To have her see that the people she once wanted to emulate be imperfect and the cause of her own past trauma would help push her to reject the Jedi as the peace keepers of the galaxy.
I knew this last episode would be abysmal based on her zoom interview on Star Wars Explained. She literslly said, "Star Wars is about the betrayal of the father"
Did she mean it like "father betrays child" or "child betrays father"?because those have two wildly different implications neither really applicable to Star Wars.
@@wingedyaga2914 exactly what you thought, father betraying a child. Not even a theme of Sat Wars, the closest would be seducing an innocent person to go against thier original will
@@MaxRamos8 Vader asks Luke to join him in ruling the galaxy after revealing he is Anakin. It's literally a part of the series' most iconic scene. That's not the betrayal of the father, heck Anakin's villain arc is him thinking what he's doing will save his family.
@@wingedyaga2914 agreed Headland is stupid or has daddy issues
The acolyte was so bad to the point where I was hoping the last episode would at least be decent and somewhat cool down from its Anti-Star Wars rhetoric. Boy was I wrong. Leslye went full scorched earth on the franchise.
She didn’t. You at least got a lightsaber duel that was good.
@@achaudhari101Doesn't changed the fact the show was bad. And badly written. A few good highlights Doesn't change that fact.
It makes it not as forgotten.
@@achaudhari101 Why are you so obsessed with defending this show
Film Threat’s funeral was well timed, 😂.
Judging by the ratings, we won’t be getting another season of this.
In Thor we trust. Wise words as ever. Lucasfilm should be knocking on YOUR door. 👌
It feels like she watched a video essay on Kreia and based her entire fanfiction premise based off that interpretation. Without doing any of the legwork Tim Cain and Chris Avellone did for KOTOR 1 & 2 to make coherent sense.
And not even the 3+hour essays, but the cliff notes ones
Thank you, man! I consider you are exactly on point with your reflection. It is encouraging to know there’s people out there that see it this way. If it sounds extreme, it is because our society is on that extreme. Totally agree with you
For the fun of it (and because I was bored at work) I left a deliberately antagonistic comment just to see how people would over react and it was verry entertaining. The crown is given to the person who said that it is better than Andor because it had better numbers but that was only for the early episodes.
Exactly how much more did Acolyte get compared to Andor? Based on what I heard about Andor's numbers that wasn't exactly difficult.
@@crossfire34 It was based on the early episodes of Andor compared to the early episodes of Acolyte I thought I included that and just fixed my comment
I just wanna know what the point of this story was? Outside of retconning plagueis what does this show do for the Star Wars universe?
It doesn’t bring up anything interesting points about the Jedi or sith. We got really no world building about the high republic for those who don’t even read the books of that era. And what interesting ideas they do have they squander them. Like how the Jedi are flawed but that was done better before or a main character turning to the dark side and they do it in the most contrived way possible.
I can’t even say it’s for Sith fans because we don’t know anything about what Qimir wants as a sith besides “freedom” even tho he blatantly exposed himself. And I like his character but it makes no sense.
Like I just don’t get it man. At least I understood what the sequels were trying to do even if they had poor execution. I have no idea what the acolyte is even trying to accomplish.
I owe Thor an apology for doubting him and thinking this shit had a chance to
Plagueis wasn’t retconned unless you think a novel is still Canon which it isn’t.
@@achaudhari101retconned to be in this show I mean. He never had anything to do with some random witches
Or he could learn what they practiced.
What do you mean you doubted Thor? I like Thor's takes, but up until the last few episodes he gave this show so meny breaks (too meny undeserved breaks) - despite everybody in the comments ripping the story to shreds. I love Thors optimism but he was skirting the "fool who follows him" territory.
It’s not a story they wanted to tell, it’s a product that they expect everyone to consume mindlessly.
“It’s a morality tale about good and evil.”
This channel is pretty awesome. I love the way you broke this down and got dwep just generally about life. Brother. You're a good man. Stay blessed.
Amazing video, and I share your perspective.
I also love how you subtly conveyed that Star Wars is about democracy and the importance of defending it against dictatorship, never letting the guard down like the Jedi did, which allowed evil to triumph.
This is particularly relevant considering that many vocal fans hold dangerous political views and have completely missed the point of Star Wars. They are the same fans that hated the prequels or place "the ORIGINAL trilogy" on a pedestal, trying to downplay the [political] message of the prequels. They only enjoy the lightsaber battles and the escapism it offers.
I miss the aspirational, hopeful stories of Legends. Bad things always kept happening - otherwise stories would have been really boring - but the theme was always to try to protect, to help those who needed help, stand up for your fellow beings, even stand with those you hate against even greater threats, and learn to find common ground in the process. All of the journeys now seem selfish and personal.
Thank you! I’ve wanted to articulate why I didn’t like this show, but couldn’t find the words to express what I was feeling or why exactly it rubbed me the wrong way. But you hit the nail on the head and put it beautifully!
I've never related so much to what someone was saying. I couldn't put into words why I didn't love these newer shows as much but Thor, you nailed it exactly. Thanks for the video!
Thank for this video, trully needed to hear this, hope this video reaches the acolyte fans
Thank you . This is the way for the common good, Strive to be good and help others protect the weak. be one with the force. Lukes father realizes how evil he has become and does the right thing and shows even if you go down the path of the dark side one can still repent. The real world where if you have 5 bucks a day you are not classed as living in poverty, Over half of people can be jailed or worse if you disagree with your rulers. Star Wars WAS a story of good v evil and offered a hope that the good gals and guys would win in the end. The Acolyte does not follow that story line.
It’s interesting how the fall of Star Wars coincides with my loss of faith and hope.
Lucas’s Star Wars gave me hope and made me think about the possibility of something greater than myself. It helped me open myself up to more hopeful ideals and helped me get through some hardships.
Disney Star Wars came about when my life started getting…complicated.
Disney SW is all nihilistic and spiteful - specifically toward the fans.
Now, after A LOT of introspection and thought, I reject everything Disney SW and will stick to my love for Lucas’s Star Wars and his era’s Expanded Universe.
EU was not his universe dude. Your whole comment sounds like a Western Civilization reference even though it doesn’t make a lick of sense. Is that like saying George Lucas’s Sequels are Pro Traditionalism/Western Civilization while Disney’s version is Postmodernism?
@@achaudhari101 I never said it was.
That being said, Lucas did sign off and approve on some EU projects.
All I was saying is that the fall of Star Wars happened right around the time I lost my faith and when my life started taking a more complicated turn.
I wasn’t making any comment on Western Civilization or pro-Traditionalism or whatever. It was literally just a comment related to the video’s main topic - or tried to be.
My disdain for Disney Star Wars is how their storytelling methods are literally the antithesis of Lucas’s original vision for Star Wars. It also doesn’t help that it’s blatantly political towards one side. I don’t care if it’s left, right, or center. If it’s good, I will say that it’s good. I enjoyed Andor, for example. I also do NOT like nihilistic storytelling.
I’m afraid you looked too much into my comment.
@@TheSpectacledOwl I’m sorry to hear you’ve been struggling, and the philosophy of Star Wars changed with that. But again, there does seem to be a big problem with hopelessness and lack of purpose for a lot of people right now, and many people are sucked into that they’d rather be obsessed with deconstruction and bringing characters down to their level to be “more relatable and flawed” when I think that we could use optimism and paragons of virtue more than ever. Those types of stories matter, and after going through an edgier phase from my teens into my early twenties when it came to stories, I find myself finding new appreciation for simpler, heroic characters who are just trying to do the right thing. And not in a naive way, but as an example of how I want to mature, and look at the world with a joyful, hopeful sentiment but that’s informed and strengthened from my hardships. There is value I think in telling stories about the darker, more hopeless parts of humanity, but it isn’t something to be stuck in and I don’t think we as a culture should prop those up as the stories to base our morality on. I actually stopped watching Rick and Morty when I started to realize how the show made me feel, and how its messaging seemed to become increasingly nihilistic after a few seasons. The Vat of Acid episode is the one that made me stop watching altogether, and I won’t be going back.
@@kyleerickson4741 Don’t worry. I am currently in therapy. It’s definitely helping.
You just always seem to find the right words and that’s a really special trait. Thank you.
OSHA’s murder of Sol is literally the exact opposite of how Luke treated Vader. If Headland was trying to make her seem like a tragic figure like Anakin, I might understand. But that’s not the case- we’re supposed to sympathize with her, we’re supposed to SHIP her with Qimir, a murderer. There’s a difference between acknowledging that we all fall sin and saying “yeah, evil is good.”
Great message here. Thanks for this video. Reminds me that there is still light in the world, despite so much darkness around us.
Guess critically acclaimed books like Darth Bane, Darth Plagueis, or Tarkin missed the mark, right?
An incredibly eloquent editorial, Thor.
This video deserves to be seen by anyone who genuinely cares about SW, regardless of their own personal thoughts on the Acolyte. You always provide such a thoughtful, balanced perspective on these matters.
Thank you.
This explanation is exactly how I feel. You hit the nail right on the head!! Thank you!
I enjoyed the Acolyte through the episode breakdowns of What the Force podcast, where they breakdown the storytelling through mythic and fairytale perspectives, it was illumination and highly enjoyable. I would recommend it.
And what's worse is that those who easily or conveniently look past and disregard the true meaning of Star Wars can just label the rest of us as "haters" and whatever else is popular at the time. It's actually very sad because all of the older fans that I know are some of the best people I've ever come across.
Continuity matters.
Now more than ever.
Sir, this is a brilliant take. I think you absolutely nailed it. Well said!
Thor. That was the most fair, honest, and articulate critique of The Acolyte immediately and Disney Star Wars generally. Thank you.
I hope all those who disagree with you hold themselves to the same quality you do.
I agree with the discussion on what Star Wars is supposed to be about and what it represents. It’s a universe with a clear good and evil, and that we need to be careful with the choices we make. Traditional religious values are something that are often made fun of in modern day, and while I’m not attempting to sway anyone a certain way, these ideas and philosophies based on morality matter. I’m a Christian myself, and part of what I’ll be doing for the rest of my life is pursuing that type of moral life, and often asking where I’m at and how I’m doing. That’s why to me, in many was Star Wars isn’t simply science fiction, but a mythology, and while I’m more than happy to engage with some more complex stories, the morality of Star Wars needs to remain intact; and this obsession with deconstruction and extreme relatability needs to end. In many ways, Luke does become a mythical hero in the EU, but he still goes through hard trials and great loss, and isn’t infallible (I just finished listening to Shadows of Mindor, and enjoyed how Luke struggled with the idea of other people making him a legend. Way more engaging than The Last Jedi). Now, I might watch The Acolyte since it’s all out and I’ll be looking at it as non-canon, but after finally giving Kenobi a chance… Disney and current LucasFilm just doesn’t get it. Andor and 2 decent seasons of Mandalorian isn’t enough. And with introducing Plagueis, that probably means they’ll want to tell his story, but there’s no way they’ll be able to write a better story than what James Luceno did with his novel. It sets the stage for the prequels perfectly, and as far as I’m concerned, is canon. I slowly have been giving these projects a chance, but more often than not they are weaker than what came before. For example, I think it was a bold and foolish decision for Dave Filoni to name drop “Heir of the Empire” in Ahsoka (I remember seeing it somewhere) because now you’ve set expectations high that it’ll be better. And it wasn’t, nor do I think the upcoming film will be better.
Awesome awesome awesome description of Star Wars and The EU. I'm a big EU supporter myself and your explanation of why Disney's stories fail to live up to The EU is spot on. I genuinely doubt Disney will come up with a Darth Plagueis story as good as the novel.
EU wasn’t Canon to Lucas and besides a lot of the stories are too weird to be “good”.
@@achaudhari101 You know, I’m not sure why you keep lurking around here trying to either insult people or convince us that we’re wrong. You do realize that you won’t change any of our minds, and I probably won’t be changing yours. And you can keep saying that the EU isn’t canon until you’re blue in the face, but the fact is: I DON’T CARE WHAT LUCASFILM SAYS. I and many others have given them chances to win us over, but they keep failing. You think I want to dislike this stuff? Knowing that all roads lead to Rise of Skywalker, I just can’t accept it. Ahsoka was boring. Kenobi wasn’t that great, and breaks canon (no one can convince me that it makes sense for Obi-Wan to clearly defeat Vader a second time and still lets him live). And I’ll probably try the others, but they just don’t excite me. But I am excited to dig into the large amount of EU material I haven’t read yet. Is that my fault? Or Disney’s for continuously showing contempt for fans and not planning things out, and hiring poor writers? And I’m not claiming that everything in the EU will be perfect or that there won’t be crazy ideas I won’t love… but the thing is, everything I’ve read so far has ranged from pretty good to great. But please, try and convince me. I don’t get it. Convince me that what Disney has done is better than the authors and comic book artists from the EU. Because all it feels like to me is that Disney Star Wars isn’t being made for people like me. They want to attract the “modern audience” that cares more about intersectional politics and people who feel the need to be validated at all times by the characters on screen. It’s pathetic. And if you’re just going to keep lurking and talking down to us, then do us all a favor and leave. You’re not convincing any of us. The EU is superior, and unless Tony Gilroy and other writers of comparable talent are given full reign, I won’t be changing my mind.
@@achaudhari101I don’t get why you keep lurking around here trying to change our minds. You’re not going to, and I’m not going to be able to change your mind. I’ve given some of these projects a chance, but when it feels like they aren’t being written in a way to appeal to fans like me anymore, than why should I keep trying? I’d rather explore the treasure trove of EU material I still have yet to discover. And whether it’s canon or not, let me tell you something: many of us DON’T CARE WHAT LUCASFILM SAYS. But please, go ahead and try to convince me that the EU is worse or should be discarded for the Disney canon. Because clearly we’re missing something, right? Despite the fact that of the EU books and comics I’ve read so far, they’ve ranged from pretty good to great. And of course there will be stories I come across that will have weird concepts or that are kind of boring. But those authors and artists treated the IP with more respect than what I’ve seen from the worst of the new canon. The EU is canon, and unless Tony Gilroy and other writers of comparable talent are given the reigns, I won’t be changing my mind. Disney wants their “modern audience” and they can have it. You don’t seem to realize that it isn’t even anger. It’s that Star Wars is going to continue to have a few decent projects in the middle of many mediocre or terrible projects. Where as with the EU, my experience so far has been opposite. But go ahead, keep trying to convince us that Disney’s canon is superior. But if you’re just going to keep lurking to be a contrarian and insult us, then do us a favor and leave. You can like what you want, and that’s fine. But you’re not going to convince me to accept Disney canon, and certainly not by acting like you have some moral high ground by pointing out prequel hate or by insulting us.
@@kyleerickson4741 I call what you’re doing a beta thing with giving up on Star Wars. Also I’m subbed to Thor so I have a right to be here and I care about SW unlike a lot of the people here that have either given up or are here just to throw a pity party. Prequel hate? Don’t be silly as I love the Prequels. What I’m saying is that the EU is fanfiction to George just like how he views the Sequels as fanfiction. All I hear from you is whining while getting triggered over a fact hence why you wrote that novel of yours. Sounds a tiny bit attention seeking.
You said it so well. Thank you. This is why Lucas Star Wars is timeless. Sure, the visuals and designs and characters help. It not only has the surface level visual spectacle, but also much deeper themes and morals to the story. That's what good storytelling is.
Hey Thor, you mentioned in a previous video about how Yoda's inclusion in The Acolyte has only two possible outcomes, being he will be portrayed as either incompetent or corrupt depending on whether Vanestra lies to him or tells him the truth. A thought occurred to me after seeing Plagueis. A "silver lining" of sorts and I was hoping on your thoughts.
So, I can see the situation with Plagueis going ONLY one of two ways. If Plagueis is Qimir's master, that means that both Qimir and/or Osha will be killed by either Plagueis or another potential apprentice (maybe even Palpatine) in the near future in order to maintain the Canon of The Prequel Trilogy. If Plagueis is NOT Qimir's master, that means that Plagueis will kill Qimir and/or Osha because to Plagueis, Qimir would be considered a rival, and there can only be two (like with Sidious confronting Maul at the end of The Clone Wars Season 5). Either way, The Star Wars Galaxy will soon be rid of those two terrable characters.
It Is Inevitable.
I argee 100%! I and my late Mom grew as real people becuase of star wars... I as a kid with the OG trilogy on tape and then the rprequals and my mom as a young woman when she saw Starwars in theaters... Which the Jedi as intened can exsit eeven in the modern day it's just hard... My mom died a hero and I got close to the insidus dark... Which the darkside is insdius and will creep up on you over years excetly like what turned anikin into Vader... Anyway thank you for this really needed it!
Star Wars, a great biblical type morality tale for the ages. Choices vs consequences, the slippery slope towards true evil, sacrifice and redemption and more. 👍
Thank you Thor! You expressed it perfectly again!
Thanks for this! Agree 100%
I'm not sure what Disney Star Wars is or what it stands for.
Woe be unto them who call evil good and good evil.
An illuminating video essay, that really nails the deeper meaning of what the Jedi represent.
Great analyses Thor. I think everything you said was correct, and a little sad. I truly believe people don’t want to be selfless anymore. They’re consumed by wanting to be the center of attention. As someone who serves in the military it’s sad. I was taught and ordered to be selfless, to do the right things. And yet when I ask people to do the same they reject the very idea. But that’s what make Lucas Star Wars so great, cause it shows the true joy and what you can accomplish when you act selfless
Totally agree with you Thor. I also think people can love Star wars for whatever reason. But I feel like if you like it only for the lightsaber fights, why not let us who do care for the deeper meaning in star wars get that inbetween the fights.
I'll take the '77 saber battle between Vader and Obi anytime, everytime than any of those in the Acolyte (though to be fair I've only seen the scenes clipped on YT I'm not watching the show) because it told a story and moved the overall story forward.
I agree with many things you said here. I am disheartened when people miss the point, instead buying into the allure of the power fantasy of the chosen one narrative while ignoring the fact that it is a cautionary tale about valuing the self over others.
Videos like this are the reason why you're one of my top 2 favorite channels on everything Star Wars (the other being Generation Tech), with a mesured and in-depth take on the entire franchise.
Frankly, I'm at a point where I believe Lucasfilm is so compromised now that it should just completely be shut down and leave the keys of Star Wars to indie studios who actually care. We've all seen with the 2 books of Visions how multiples studios first in Japan, then all around the world completely understood the assignment that working on Star Wars is a freakkin privilege, and possibly the gig of their career, so they all gave their 200% to it, giving us some of the best Star Wars ever seen !
And frankly, it stretched the Galaxy far far away in so many super interesting directions, far far from the Skywalker family.
Seriously, some of these episodes could have been pilot episodes of their own series (thinking about Duel, the Twins, Village Bride, Lop & Ocho, and The 9th Jedi - btw, having a much more compelling explanation and execution of lightsaber colors than in Acolyte - for book 1, and Screechers Reach, The Spy Dancer, Journey to the Dark Head, & Aau's song for book 2). I'm looking forward for such initiative to actually become canon instead of being just fringe experiment. Imagine if all these series actually came to fruition, just how much richer and liberated Star Wars's universe and worldbuilding could feel !
Superb analysis. Thank you!
Main point I take from Star Wars is that the Jedi were wrong about attachment. They make Anakin their enemy that way and Luke's attachment brings balance to the force.
After this video I am subscribed to your channel. Very well said sir…VERY well said.
They carry a Jedis weapon but they are no jedi
Thank you for putting it so well Thor,
People are becoming exactly what Disney wants,
I agree with everything! I will add 2 things only:
1. The meaning is deeper then the outreach of one's choices. It is the hero's journey with many hints how to make good choices as being part of space and time
2. Prequels were about authoritarism. Jedi failed more then just not being ready - they got close to power & they disregarded the emotional side of humans too much. So there is again deeper layer here
Postmodernism is engrained in our current culture, and I think it's the culprit.
I think a huge part has to do with the philosophy of "Postmodernism" which is a philosophy where everything is deconstructed.
Lucas was inspired by Joeseph Campell's Monomyth "The Heroes Journey" and the philosophy that came with it, which was "romantic" and spiritual, and believes there is good and evil, unlike "Postmodernism".
Postmodernism deconstructs everything, instead of truth being 100% factual, everyone has their own truth (selfless vs selfish), instead of gender being binary, there are people who identify outside that, nothing is factual because everything is relative, hence good can be evil, evil can be good and you can be both.
Postmodernism teaches to forget the past "kill it if you have to".
Some film directors use Postmodernism through their movies such as Rian Johnson and Quinten Tarantino.
I think this is the difference between people who love Lucas SW and those who love Disney SW.
I hate Postmodernism, I find it very harmful, but that is just my personal opinion, if you love it awesome.
WOW and thank you! A wonderful explaination about what Star Wars is REALLY about and how todays society do worship "celebrities".
What do you think of Kreia's view of the Force with respect to the Jedi and Sith? I found her take to be very interesting and complex, and kind of wish that Disney had introduced someone like her if they wanted to add more "greyness" to the philosophy of the Force.
1:24 I respectfully disagree with what you think George meant in his movies. I mean he mite have meant for Star Wars to mean one thing. But just like how adults argue Star Wars is not just for kids. I’d argue it means many things to many people. And this “You can like what you like that’s fine.” Well, it loses its intent when you fellow it up with, “You missed the meaning of Star Wars.” Look George Lucas’ Star Wars will always be here. It’s not going anywhere. And as much as I don’t like the Last Jedi. I do agree with Yoda’s line.
“We are what they grow beyond.”
Star Wars hating has been going on since 1977. Look at all the bad reviews for the first movie. Some reviewers thought it was stupid and made for kids. The first 6 Star Wars has tons and tons of plot holes because George was adding stuff along the way for the Prequels which were then never mentioned in the Originals which happens years later like Qui-Gon Jinn and midi-chlorians which Obi-Wan and Yoda never speak about in the OGs.
You would think Obi-Wan would mention his former master at least once in the OGs but he’s never mentioned. Not even in private with Yoda. And if you want to go even further, where the hell is Ahsoka in all of this? Never mentioned at all in any of the 9 movies. Filoni makes it seem she’s so significant. R2-D2 did more for the rebellion than Ahsoka did. Star Wars has tons of continuity issues. In 3 of the 9 films, they used the same planet killer Death Star plot. Two of those from the OGs.
You should check The Acolyte subreddit with people liking the show. One person said it’s at least taking risks and killing off most of the main characters or at least the so-called good guys. But there’s an interesting discussion if Sol deserved to get killed or not? Was he more bad than how many of us perceive him? Bad as in doing bad things. Not necessarily evil.
*Thank* *you,* *The* *Acolyte*
www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/s/kb7vWMWtxF
You might have a different opinion on it when reading some of the more positive comments for it. Could The Acolyte be misunderstood? Or could it be so hated now but be appreciated years later like what the Prequels became? I’ve seen positive comments for The Acolyte coming from Star Wars fans of at least 30-40 years. And thirsty females / shippers like this Oshamir stuff as their dark side Reylo.
I still think The Acolyte sucks and is the worst thing that ever came out of Star Wars. But, I might compare it to when I owned an Atari Jaguar. I thought it was the worst video game console I ever had but I still have a soft spot for it. Sometimes being so bad can be looked upon as a cult classic years later. There are tons of people who love Godzilla movies and get a joy watching cheesy, campy fights with guys in rubber suits. Everybody processes information and media content differently.
The few positive aspects that The Acolyte did give us are…
- Qimir / The Stranger
- Best lightsaber fights since the Prequels
- Darth Plagueis
Plagueis could lead us to a young Palpatine series someday. What Star Wars Meg needs to talk about next is Darth Plagueis possibly being in a Season 2 of The Acolyte if we do get one. It’s the big WTF/OMG moment from Ep. 8. Yoda is my second favorite SW character ever but I didn’t care about his appearance. And more Abeloth talk in Season 2 of Ahsoka.
Star Wars Meg and Allen Xie of Generation Tech are at best when talking about Legends and stuff deeper into the lore. Shows like Ahsoka and The Acolyte are more like this providing more of the mystique of Star Wars than say Andor. The first Star Wars movie couldn’t beat a rom-com for Best Picture. George Lucas was always a hack of a writer. Zero Oscars for writing or Best Pic.
Have the haters watched any actual SW shows?
www.reddit.com/r/TheAcolyte/s/WIcQ64oXT2
I will admit The Acolyte did have superior fight choreography than Ahsoka. Not saying it was better than Ahsoka as an actual series, but it had far better fights.
Does anybody remember when Maul kicks Obi-Wan to a lower floor? You can see zero contact.
th-cam.com/video/qo__6MZIg6U/w-d-xo.htmlsi=At6rA5Epw0aKJWbi
My Disney+ SW Series Rankings
1. Andor
2. The Mandalorian
3. Ahsoka
4. Obi-Wan Kenobi
5. The Book of Boba Fett
6. The Acolyte
^ Or take the first two seasons of The Mandalorian and the first season of Andor and throw the rest in the trash.
The fanbase was united until the prequels.
It WAS made for kids.
You put more thought into writing this than the writers of the Acolyte did I'd wager
Terrific explanation of the Jedi and the balance of the force. It's clear KK and Head don't have the respect they want but didn't earn. Therefore, they play the Sith to the fans Jedi. The fans want something positive. Stories that Respect their history, Love the characters, and are Well Thought out. KK and Head want to Destoy the history, Hurt the legacy of the characters, and Kill the enjoyment of the fans.
Have to say you hit the nail on the head. We are living in a selfish and self centered world where it is all about me , my truth, and what I want. We have lost the focus on being sacrificial and the importance of putting the needs of others first. Wow. This explains why there are those who actually have enjoyed this show. The lines of good and evil have been blurred for so long that people are immune to recognizing right from wrong in these characters. As an OH fan from 1977, this show truly destroyed what Star Wars was intended to be about.
11:40 And that the Jedi were being to strict with their Order’s “Code” and not listening to the Will of the Force.
It’s their tying themselves to tradition and being the Republic’a lapdogs that put them at odds with what the Force wanted of them.