The black / red, amass, golem tormenting, "evil" deck losing to a back door Frodo, essentially casting the ring into Mount Doom. Would have been the best flavor win of the set so far.
1:07:12 Am I evaluating this wrong? I thought the Mithril Coat was the choice by a decent margin. Given we already have 2 removal in hand it felt like one of the most likely ways we could lose the game.
I am surprised he didn't take it either. Not sure what his logic was. Seeing the later draws, I think he would have had a much better chance if he had taken it.
At 14:11 LSV pointed out that the opponent should have pumped Frodo with Wose Pathfinder the turn prior to swing the race in their favor more. I think the opponent felt like they couldn't lose if Frodo survived, and were keeping up the Pathfinder activation to protect Frodo from Smite the Deathless or Improvised Club should LSV have drawn either of those on his next turn.
See, this is why I watch great drafters, because Torment to me seems bad, so I’d be wary to play one. But seeing how all this played out teaches me so much. Thanks!
Oh it is a really, _really_ bad card. Even Thoughseize/Inquisition get sided out and this is at 4 mana - wayyyy too late. But this is limited, it's a common and supports a very good archetype. The key I think with this card is to, as LSV said in this vid, it is a 2-for-1, a Thoughtseize plus a 2/2 and for a common that's pretty decent.
I had a funny game with Frodo in which I managed to hit the opponent with him while being maxed tempted, but didn't notice and ordered the triggers that the 'lose 3 life ' will resolve first and he was on 3 life. So Frodo did kill my opponent but not in the cool way.
I am pretty confident that LSV has never picked a wrong card in draft and that he has never lost a game due to misplay, now he wasnt always a perfect magic player who never makes mistakes of course, No it was only after he got into the hall of fame. This title made him impervious to critique and ensured that he always makes the right call in all aspects of life.
I'm trying to think what is most impressive. The gp and pt wins/top 8s. Or the high level play while explaining everything out loud. Both seem like super powers to me.
@@ed1726 Que?why would that be unjustified? there are not many pro tour winners, and there are tons more decent players with a talent for teaching, who can explain things nicely to an audience while playing. I am one of them myself. I don't have the talent , discipline and stamina to win a pro tour but I have played tons of drafts against pro tour players including many hall of famers like Luis. And I won a fair share of matches against those so it's not really a stretch to claim that I can draft on that level. I am also a teacher IRL and good at explaining things.
Far less experienced in general in limited formats, but what would the reasoning be for taking an on-color cycler over an off-color cycler? If I was building black red and found an Oliphant and a Cave Troll, I feel like Oliphant would give the higher impact, since you would be much more likely to open with your main color instead of your off-color, and you can get away with running fewer off-color lands to further decrease the possibility you open off-color lands right? Or is it better to take on-color to treat it as a land that sometimes ends up as a creature like the Zendikar MDFCs?
because when the oliphant-troll pick came up he wasn't sure he would be red yet. the oliphant would be a wsted pick if in later packs he made the switch to black with white or blue
4:00 Cave Troll vs Oliphaunt Oliphaunt seems more natural to me here because you're looking to splash red, so mountaincycling goes up in value relative to swampcycling. In a main black deck, Troll doesn't help fix because you are almost guaranteed to have enough black mana, so it's usually only useful lategame. In a deck splashing red, the Oliphaunt play is useful early (when you probably don't have red mana yet) AND late (when you already have a mountain and can play it from topdeck).
49:11 As someone who _has_ killed somebody with Frodo's last ability, nooooooooooooo And then immediately afterward, "Hey LSV, have you met my ladyfriends? Let me introduce you to them." Also I guess now Arwen is married to Shelob...? God, LSV enjoyed that game just as a crazy game of MtG, but as a massive Tolkien nerd I don't even know where to begin with the jokes. First, let's just note that that run of cards from LSV's opponent was basically the color green hearing all his trash-talking and getting revenge. Also who says LotR has no strong female characters? Also: "The Ring must be cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came! One of _you_ must do this." "... We could let _her_ do it." "I am glad you are with me, army of Orcs, enraged Huorn, Shelob, Arwen, Mirkwood spider, and mummified Voracious Fell Beast. Here at the end of all things." "Troll of Khazad-dum stands alone." "Not alone. Forth, Riders of Rohan!" sees Shelob "Oh dear that's a _big_ spider. Run away, Riders of Rohan!" "Go ahead and draw your last pathetic card, Infinite Breakfast!" "My Grandpa's deck has no pathetic cards, LSV! But it _does_ have... Frodo, Sauron's Bane!" "Well, he doesn't have any evasion though-" "And Enraged Huorn, making Frodo my Ringbearer!" "Sure, okay, that's a little annoying-" "And Wose Pathfinder!" "Oh, that's actually pretty dangerous. I better swing out and hope you block badly-" "I block with Wose Pathfinder!" "Really? Aw man, you just threw the game-" "And play Shelob, Ungoliant's Daughter!" "What?! Okay, well, whatever, she still doesn't have Reach-" "And play Arwen, Mortal Queen! I attack you with a 9/9 indestructible lifelink spider! And also Frodo." "Okay, well, I _have_ to chump block with Voracious Fell Beast-" "Now because Shelob killed your Fell Beast, she... I guess, mummifies it? And carries it back to her lair? And it eats one of your other creatures on the way, and turns it into more food? ... Somehow?" "Ahhh! That's impossible!"
I don't want to correct LSV but I'd be extremely surprised if he watched this back and didn't conclude the same thing. This would've been an insane BW deck.
LSVs bias against white and green always does that during limited. He always ignores clearly open white and green signals. No matter, its what works for him.
Closer pick than usual given the circumstances. Since they had two pretty valuable 5 drops, it's reasonable to leave them with both since Torment #2 was en route but leaving them the Warbeast when your hand is double Lash seems pretty suspect as well. Mithril Coat only protects one thing so killing all that thing's friends and leaving it alone is a pretty decent plan, it basically ONLY goes wrong if that thing is gigantic which took some pretty specific RNG on both sides to make happen.
Mithril Coat was the one card his deck couldn't handle. Creatures could be killed. Basically the MC is a counterspell for all the removal his deck has.
Hi mate. You and alot of people hardly underrate Grimar. On it's own he looks extremely mediocre, but he is great with tons of cards in the set. Also he demolishes those Green White food decks on his own, once you run into them and is great for blocking Ring Bearers in every matchup. Definetely a better pick over Nasty End. Nasty End you find 1-2 anyway in the last 5 picks all the time.
Game 1 is typical MtG:Arena : one is color screwed, the other is flooded. They tried to control randomness but end up "killing" some games and forcing players to lose.
That first game is exactly why i think MTGA should do more to avoid those situations, it’s fundamentally unfun for both players participating to have such an unfair non-game
7 mountains for 3 red spells? only one of which is an early play. I'd say you deserve to get color screwed. That can not be right. You need two swamps in play to double spell as well.
Yeah I was thinking 6 mountains but he does have 11 black sources which is a lot Edit: he actually talked about exactly this at 19:00. I know he’s better at Magic than me but I still like 6 mountains. You lose some win % if you have to cycle your trolls just to meet your colour requirements and then can’t cast them as creatures.
@@owenyates6046 yes I know. It still doesn't change the equation. When you play a two-color deck with a 3-card splash you put in 3-4 mana sources of the splash color and 7-7 of the others. SO why would you suddenly go 7 sources for the splash when you're on a heavy mono-color commitment otherwise? It's just bound to cause trouble. In other words, it's not enough to draw just one swamp here, you need reliably 2-3 swamps in play for the deck to function.
I'm lost how computer arena's have become completely corrupted. How is it that every draft I do on Arena, all they do is push me to lose a my first game with drawing lands in stead of cards to play. why do they continue to give me a 30% of have 3 lands of the same color to force a mulligan. It so fixed unless on has a steam? All this on games that cost gems. How is it that I hardly witness these streamers mostly go threw this, as to were I do.
@@jonsalvadori6275 One, we are not bruh or bros or whatever the fuck you wrote to me to make yourself feel better without the wack job that sure came later.
@@jonsalvadori6275nah there’s definitely some sketchy things on Arena I’ve gotten to the point I could run 14 lands even without cyclers and still flood for most of my losses. It’s kind of funny at this point. I have no issues losing but it gets frustrating when it’s always the same thing flood flood flood opponent perfect curve out. And I’ve never had it be this bad before. I was actually crushing MOM drafts despite jumping in late.
46:04: "Am I gonna lose to Frodo? I actually think I am!"
- Sauron, March 25, in the year 3019 of the Third Age, reenacted
Everything as planned
And the magnitude of LSV's own folly was revealed to him in a blinding flash, and all the devices of his opponent were at last laid bare.
LSV should have let the Frodo to actually hit him before conceding. Getting to win / lose with Frodo is so rare that it should be celebrated. ;)
This is a LSV classic. Good draft, one of the wildest single games possible, crashing the software, high mythic intrigue, its all here
The black / red, amass, golem tormenting, "evil" deck losing to a back door Frodo, essentially casting the ring into Mount Doom. Would have been the best flavor win of the set so far.
True destiny
Can I just say that the sound of the coffee cup filling up in the intro is really satisfying.
Just found limited resources and this channel yesterday. Love you calm vibe and the way you verbalise your reasoning. Subbed!
1:07:12 Am I evaluating this wrong? I thought the Mithril Coat was the choice by a decent margin. Given we already have 2 removal in hand it felt like one of the most likely ways we could lose the game.
I am surprised he didn't take it either. Not sure what his logic was. Seeing the later draws, I think he would have had a much better chance if he had taken it.
At 14:11 LSV pointed out that the opponent should have pumped Frodo with Wose Pathfinder the turn prior to swing the race in their favor more. I think the opponent felt like they couldn't lose if Frodo survived, and were keeping up the Pathfinder activation to protect Frodo from Smite the Deathless or Improvised Club should LSV have drawn either of those on his next turn.
Nice video. Infinite Breakfast is one half of the Limited Edition podcast; glad you guys had an epic game.
I take off colour cyclers highly when there's nothing in my colours, just to potentially splash and in that case cut down lands.
I was multi tasking when you said "I am tempted to kingfisher" i totally heard "tempted to catfish her"
See, this is why I watch great drafters, because Torment to me seems bad, so I’d be wary to play one. But seeing how all this played out teaches me so much. Thanks!
Oh it is a really, _really_ bad card. Even Thoughseize/Inquisition get sided out and this is at 4 mana - wayyyy too late. But this is limited, it's a common and supports a very good archetype. The key I think with this card is to, as LSV said in this vid, it is a 2-for-1, a Thoughtseize plus a 2/2 and for a common that's pretty decent.
That's the first Shelob/Arwen I've ever seen. And I checked AO3.
Awesome vids LSV loving the daily content
I had a funny game with Frodo in which I managed to hit the opponent with him while being maxed tempted, but didn't notice and ordered the triggers that the 'lose 3 life ' will resolve first and he was on 3 life. So Frodo did kill my opponent but not in the cool way.
Frodo defeats Sauron the hard way, puts on the ring, takes over Mordor as the new dark lord.
I LOVE people in the comments telling Hall of Fame player LSV that he's building his mana base incorrectly. Y'all are hilarious.
Yeah, because a hall of famer can never be wrong...*eyeroll* This idolization of people is frankly disturbing,.
I am pretty confident that LSV has never picked a wrong card in draft and that he has never lost a game due to misplay, now he wasnt always a perfect magic player who never makes mistakes of course, No it was only after he got into the hall of fame. This title made him impervious to critique and ensured that he always makes the right call in all aspects of life.
@@robinlarsson1057 Interesting that you assume I idolize this man. I hope your eyes rolled so hard that you strained them.
@@yamchadragonball6983 Wow. You really got me. Damn.
Well that was a game indeed, I am starting to understand why the format is actually good!
That last match was certainly something.
Absolutely love the comments section telling a HOF, multi time PT top 8er, how badly he is drafting 😂
I'm trying to think what is most impressive. The gp and pt wins/top 8s. Or the high level play while explaining everything out loud. Both seem like super powers to me.
@@ed1726 pt wins are way harder
@@Blackadder75 thank you for your completely unjustified assurance.
@@ed1726 plus the fact he is one of the fastest players out there. But at least we have the comments section to tell us how wrong he is 😂😂
@@ed1726 Que?why would that be unjustified? there are not many pro tour winners, and there are tons more decent players with a talent for teaching, who can explain things nicely to an audience while playing.
I am one of them myself. I don't have the talent , discipline and stamina to win a pro tour but I have played tons of drafts against pro tour players including many hall of famers like Luis. And I won a fair share of matches against those so it's not really a stretch to claim that I can draft on that level. I am also a teacher IRL and good at explaining things.
Far less experienced in general in limited formats, but what would the reasoning be for taking an on-color cycler over an off-color cycler? If I was building black red and found an Oliphant and a Cave Troll, I feel like Oliphant would give the higher impact, since you would be much more likely to open with your main color instead of your off-color, and you can get away with running fewer off-color lands to further decrease the possibility you open off-color lands right? Or is it better to take on-color to treat it as a land that sometimes ends up as a creature like the Zendikar MDFCs?
Because you can cast your on colour cyclers.
because when the oliphant-troll pick came up he wasn't sure he would be red yet. the oliphant would be a wsted pick if in later packs he made the switch to black with white or blue
Thanks for the great video!
4:00 Cave Troll vs Oliphaunt
Oliphaunt seems more natural to me here because you're looking to splash red, so mountaincycling goes up in value relative to swampcycling. In a main black deck, Troll doesn't help fix because you are almost guaranteed to have enough black mana, so it's usually only useful lategame. In a deck splashing red, the Oliphaunt play is useful early (when you probably don't have red mana yet) AND late (when you already have a mountain and can play it from topdeck).
Honestly, with most of the landcyclers but the island one, the main mode is the creature
At that point lsv isn't commited on red. If pack 2 starts with an off color (single color or Bx) bomb, he drops the RB unco without thinking.
43:00 What a game!
Troll is a better creature though and you can adjust your land split to compensate for not having Oliphaunt as a red source
Ahhh so this was the reason why every black deck played Torment of Gollum on 4 against me yesterday.
Nice draft, thank you!
loving the videos
49:11 As someone who _has_ killed somebody with Frodo's last ability, nooooooooooooo
And then immediately afterward, "Hey LSV, have you met my ladyfriends? Let me introduce you to them." Also I guess now Arwen is married to Shelob...?
God, LSV enjoyed that game just as a crazy game of MtG, but as a massive Tolkien nerd I don't even know where to begin with the jokes. First, let's just note that that run of cards from LSV's opponent was basically the color green hearing all his trash-talking and getting revenge. Also who says LotR has no strong female characters? Also:
"The Ring must be cast back into the fiery chasm from whence it came! One of _you_ must do this."
"... We could let _her_ do it."
"I am glad you are with me, army of Orcs, enraged Huorn, Shelob, Arwen, Mirkwood spider, and mummified Voracious Fell Beast. Here at the end of all things."
"Troll of Khazad-dum stands alone."
"Not alone. Forth, Riders of Rohan!"
sees Shelob
"Oh dear that's a _big_ spider. Run away, Riders of Rohan!"
"Go ahead and draw your last pathetic card, Infinite Breakfast!"
"My Grandpa's deck has no pathetic cards, LSV! But it _does_ have... Frodo, Sauron's Bane!"
"Well, he doesn't have any evasion though-"
"And Enraged Huorn, making Frodo my Ringbearer!"
"Sure, okay, that's a little annoying-"
"And Wose Pathfinder!"
"Oh, that's actually pretty dangerous. I better swing out and hope you block badly-"
"I block with Wose Pathfinder!"
"Really? Aw man, you just threw the game-"
"And play Shelob, Ungoliant's Daughter!"
"What?! Okay, well, whatever, she still doesn't have Reach-"
"And play Arwen, Mortal Queen! I attack you with a 9/9 indestructible lifelink spider! And also Frodo."
"Okay, well, I _have_ to chump block with Voracious Fell Beast-"
"Now because Shelob killed your Fell Beast, she... I guess, mummifies it? And carries it back to her lair? And it eats one of your other creatures on the way, and turns it into more food? ... Somehow?"
"Ahhh! That's impossible!"
Who would have thought that infinite breakfasts could break the game
I think WB would've been a better deck with banish from edoras, Frodo, Denethor, shadow summoning, Fog, Westfold rider, Boromir and Faramir.
I would have jumped into white when he opened Frodo, but I haven't played the set very much and haven't tried Frodo.
I don't want to correct LSV but I'd be extremely surprised if he watched this back and didn't conclude the same thing. This would've been an insane BW deck.
LSVs bias against white and green always does that during limited. He always ignores clearly open white and green signals. No matter, its what works for him.
I love playing Nasty Ends on Mordor Catapult Tokens. So much value xD Also seems fine with Mirkwood Bats and Denethor.
1440p or 4k soon? :)
I definitely would have taken the Mithril Coat with the torment.
It's usually a good idea to leave them with an unplayably bad card in hand.
Closer pick than usual given the circumstances. Since they had two pretty valuable 5 drops, it's reasonable to leave them with both since Torment #2 was en route but leaving them the Warbeast when your hand is double Lash seems pretty suspect as well. Mithril Coat only protects one thing so killing all that thing's friends and leaving it alone is a pretty decent plan, it basically ONLY goes wrong if that thing is gigantic which took some pretty specific RNG on both sides to make happen.
Mithril Coat was the one card his deck couldn't handle. Creatures could be killed. Basically the MC is a counterspell for all the removal his deck has.
Frodo seems like a good card!
I'm so down. Thx LSV
This is a really good titel:)))
Hi mate. You and alot of people hardly underrate Grimar. On it's own he looks extremely mediocre, but he is great with tons of cards in the set. Also he demolishes those Green White food decks on his own, once you run into them and is great for blocking Ring Bearers in every matchup. Definetely a better pick over Nasty End. Nasty End you find 1-2 anyway in the last 5 picks all the time.
Game 1 is typical MtG:Arena : one is color screwed, the other is flooded.
They tried to control randomness but end up "killing" some games and forcing players to lose.
That first game is exactly why i think MTGA should do more to avoid those situations, it’s fundamentally unfun for both players participating to have such an unfair non-game
Fourment of Gollum
My very first game of this set I won with Frodo. Skews me to thinking it’s a great card
Hey at least you didn't die to Frodo........
Engagement
Is this pre-recorded? I can't believe drafters are still disreptecting rakdos this much
arena Bo1 meta is always slow to adjust
Nah, I mean it went up like two days after I drafted it or something
That frodo opponent’s plays made be lose brain cells. holy.
How the fuck Is black so open
15 land decision imo...***
Hey
!
Nah, torment is ABSOLUTE GARBAGE. You should leave every copy in the pack so I HAVE to take it and my deck will be UNPLAYABLE (shh, don't tell them).
EZ black
7 mountains for 3 red spells? only one of which is an early play. I'd say you deserve to get color screwed. That can not be right. You need two swamps in play to double spell as well.
He had three trolls which all cycle for swamps in the event. He literally says it in the video.
Yeah I was thinking 6 mountains but he does have 11 black sources which is a lot
Edit: he actually talked about exactly this at 19:00. I know he’s better at Magic than me but I still like 6 mountains. You lose some win % if you have to cycle your trolls just to meet your colour requirements and then can’t cast them as creatures.
@@owenyates6046 yes I know. It still doesn't change the equation. When you play a two-color deck with a 3-card splash you put in 3-4 mana sources of the splash color and 7-7 of the others. SO why would you suddenly go 7 sources for the splash when you're on a heavy mono-color commitment otherwise? It's just bound to cause trouble. In other words, it's not enough to draw just one swamp here, you need reliably 2-3 swamps in play for the deck to function.
I'm lost how computer arena's have become completely corrupted. How is it that every draft I do on Arena, all they do is push me to lose a my first game with drawing lands in stead of cards to play. why do they continue to give me a 30% of have 3 lands of the same color to force a mulligan. It so fixed unless on has a steam? All this on games that cost gems. How is it that I hardly witness these streamers mostly go threw this, as to were I do.
I think the reality is, you’re not as good as you think you are.
"it's rigged" is the last gasp of the incompetent. Maybe you're just not very good, bruh.
@@jonsalvadori6275 One, we are not bruh or bros or whatever the fuck you wrote to me to make yourself feel better without the wack job that sure came later.
@@RobJT Why would I ever care to study what you think.
@@jonsalvadori6275nah there’s definitely some sketchy things on Arena I’ve gotten to the point I could run 14 lands even without cyclers and still flood for most of my losses. It’s kind of funny at this point. I have no issues losing but it gets frustrating when it’s always the same thing flood flood flood opponent perfect curve out.
And I’ve never had it be this bad before. I was actually crushing MOM drafts despite jumping in late.