If anyone was curious, Crystal Swords will add your +Additional Magic Damage to their melee attacks. I tested it out on the target dummies in the goblin caves.
Watched every single video of yours talking about dark and darker, and i've got to say... your content is amazing; short, sweet, and straight to the point. I've subscribed and I'll recommend you to my friends as well
Updates: 2023/08/23: Weakpoint Attack now functions differently, reducing AR instead of PDR%. This makes figuring out how much Weakpoint is affecting your damage very... weird and unintuitive. It won't affect the bonuses you get from PDR% on gear, Taunt, Holy Protection, Protection Shrines, and the AR to PDR curve is very variable and awkward to calculate. We've also found that there may be more limb multipliers than merely 50%. For example, your arm takes more damage than your hand.
I've just tested a rogue that's going all in on magical damage, with a magic power bonus of 5% and 6 true magical damage and 15 additional magic damage. Training dummy test shows the stacks dealing 3-4 damage a tick with this. Scaled down that should be 1(base) +3 +7.5=11.5 a tick , but is not the case. There's three different explanations I have for this: 1) The attribute scaling modifier is actually more severe than 50% for poison weapon. 2) The 11.5 total is added to the 4, resulting in 15.5, resulting in the tick being 3.75, and training dummy rounds down. 3) Ironmace have hard-capped how much damage poison weapon can do. Would be cool to hear your take on which it is.
@@mathew4485 It's basically the same. The only stats that matter are Magical Healing (acts like +Weapon or +Magical) and Magic Power Bonus (which gets influenced by Magic Power and Will). Default Cleric Lesser Heal with Advanced Healer is (15 + 5) * 1.4, or 28.
Thank you for creating this. Have been wondering about exact numbers since the wiki doesn't seem to show everything, this clears some things up keep up the good work
We've been workin' on trying to fill in more and more details there, so if there's anything in particular you need, let me know. A proper Damage Calculation page was added recently.
Goated Video For Math Nerds like myself. This confirmed a lot of my assumption which I was pretty certain on, but I still got to learn a bit due to the projectile segment and the Various Discrepancies.
This is amazing! Have you ever considered making a list of perks and for each one determining if it adds weapon damage, additional damage, true damage, %physicalpowerbonus, or physicalpower? Amazing video on this!
So in general prioritize Strength and Weapon damage. Add magic damage for casters. For low strength Rogues you can go for true and add phys damage to ignore your power penalty. %Damage probably isn't as good unless you have ridiculous gear and stats, in which case you're going to kill quick anyway.
If you want the formula written out, here it is: (((Weapon Damage * Impact Zone Bonus * Combo Bonus * (1 + Power Bonus)) + Additional Physical Damage) * (1 + Hit Location Bonus) * (1 - Damage Reduction) * (1 - Projectile Reduction)) + True Damage I forgot to include Impact Zone and Combo bonuses. Think of Impact Zone as your sweet/sourspots on your weapon, and Combo as the bonus damage your weapon gets for latter hits in the combo. These only multiply Weapon Damage, same as Power Bonus. Formula is same for Magical Damage, just substitute the words "Weapon" and "Physical" with "Magical". The only time Combo and Impact Zone apply to Magical Damage is if it's the Crystal Sword's special "Magical Weapon Damage".
Would like to see some practical builds for each class. Say you limit yourself to a base class with 4 perks and then see how you can max out your damage using roughly the same stat increases in different positions.
Outt dated calculations DaD updated on 8/22/2023 with a new DR calculation The Armor Rating curve has been modified and slightly flattened at the very high range. Physical Damage Reduction now has a hard cap of 85%.
DR still functions the exact same way in terms of multiplication, the difference is what their DR would be. Doesn't change the equation at all. What DID change is Weakpoint's functionality.
Awesome Video, always come back here to refresh my memory. I’m still confused about Additional Damage and True Damage. Based on the calculations, aren’t they the same thing but with True Damage being a little Better?
No, they are calculated differently. Additional is added earlier on in the formula, and so is affected by things like damage reduction and headshot/limb multipliers. True is added at the end of everything, meaning that it cannot benefit from head/limb multipliers, but it also cannot be reduced by damage reduction. I'm unsure of the current enchantment balance (I haven't played in some time), but at some point, Additional was more plentiful than True as well. You could get +3 Additional, but only +2 True. I don't know if that's the case now, be sure to check the wiki. If the available amounts ARE different in current version, then that is another factor to consider.
Did some testing with Rouge's Rupture It seems that "+weapon dmg stats" doesn't need to be divided by 2 (as the example you said with Achilles strike at 4:12) As long as your physical power is over 0%, +5 weapon dmg gear made my dot dmg go from 4 to 5 I have recorded the test on YT (uploaded on private though) if you want to examine it.
I want to say, hellfire will only give me the damage info in the warm up room if I hit a arrow type target. The dummies give me zero damage information
Followed everything except 4b. IMO, you glossed over the part about damage reduction quite a bit too quick. I don't know all the spells in the game and their text, so even deciphering the text made it a bit unclear. Anyway, this was a great video. Liked and subbed.
Please keep these coming! I would love it if you could do a class breakdown. I would really like to have a numbers guy like you help me understand how to build the most optimal burn mage or poison/bleed rogue. I sort of got a hang of it watching your video but feel like I'm missing some key concepts. With dot damage, it appears that the power bonus damage and additional damage are both cut in half however would it be best to focus on additional damage/true damage due to those being added instead of multiplied by your total damage?
For DoTs I'd personally recommend True Damage where possible, because higher-geared players are almost always going to have enough resistances to get 1% reduction or higher. The only exception are the weird DoTs that benefit from headshots, which is... Ignite, and nothing else, I believe.
Why barb ( in defaule gear,axe) Got more damage with AXE SPECIALIZATION then SAVAGE ( if both inc phys dmg bonus by 10) 47.5(axe spec) and 45.6( savege) dmg by 1 attack with default axe
Please make class specific videos that spoon feed me info on what stats are ideal because I'm dumb ( im speaking for the majority of the DaD community myself mainly).
A question I’ve been wondering about is whether or not Physical/Magical Bonus affects skills like Judgement, and this answered that. I did run into something tho, while I was in goblin caves I hit the target dummy with a War Maul as Cleric, in the body, and it did 49 damage. I then hit the dummy in the head, and it did about 89 damage, which made me think the headshot bonus was 80%. I didn’t have any buffs active at the time, just Blunt Weapon mastery. What might have caused that?
Any increase is valuable, because the game keeps track of decimal HP. You might be dealing 2.1 or 2.2 per tick and it won't show up on the dummy, but it will help against players and enemies.
Some are, some aren't. It mostly seems to boil down to whether the hit is considered a "projectile". Zap, Chain Lightning, Hellfire, and Curse of Pain aren't considered projectiles, so they don't benefit. Fireball's Direct Hit portion is, as are Ice Bolt and Magic Missile, so they do benefit.
So ignites' DoT benefits from Additional magic damage? And if so, why doesn't any of the ignite wizards run fire mastery? If you had +20 add magic damage, wouldn't that mean the burn effect alone would burn for 60 damage (not taking resistance into account)?
No, because the DoT is all one flat damage number that gets calculated first, then divided by duration. You get damage over the total duration, not per-tick. If you added +20 to Fireball's afterburn, it'd go from 3 damage to 13 (because of the 50% scaling), then divided by 3 for 4.333 damage per tick. Same with Ignite, but Ignite doesn't even benefit from Fire Mastery's afterburn duration buff, so there's that.
@clowdk Hello, i'm maybe wrong but i don't understand. I hit with my crossbow Headshot 110 on dummy when mathematic say i hit 164.285 (((62 * (1 + 4.7%)) + o) * (1 + 150%) * (1 - 0) * (1 - O)) + 2 = 164.285 Where 62 is Weapon Damage + Add Weapon Damage 4.7% is Power Bonus o is 0 Additional damage 150% is headshot multiplier 0 is 0 damage reduction O is 0 projectile reduction 2 is true damage I really don't get the 54 drop damage
@clowd thanks for uploading quality info! I was just wondering for best damage output perks and skill for barb. Perks: 1. Axe specialization 2. Executioner 3. Two hander (sometimes I run berserker here) 4. This one im quite unsure whether to run berserker/carnage/savage (if I have good tunic I swapped the savage out) Skills: 1. Rage (usually I but thinking 2. Reckless attack ( I swap to achilles strike when doing solo or duo eco runs) But I just had an idea if the rage is swapped with achilles strike will it be more beneficial? Or even using life siphon to limit test barb too. What’s your thoughts or if ever you tried to try this too? Thanks!
Savage is more powerful than Two Hander (10% over 5%), and is actually more impactful than Executioner with base Strength. I don't think Two-Hander is generally worth running if you have Savage up, and if you've got a chestpiece you're probably tanky/geared enough that bringing something like Berserker, Robust, or even Potion Chugger is a better idea than adding another 5%. I also think Crush is pretty important to have, breaking doors down can be invaluable for pushes/escapes. Rage is pretty much non-negotiable, imo. Having movement speed buffs is almost always the strongest skill you can bring, period, and Rage gives a damage buff on top of that. Unless you've got teammates to speed-buff you (Haste, Accelerando), and even then, stacking Rage with those is even better.
Yoo thanks for the reply, I really like the way you dissect all the given information. Yes generally when running eco runs or just chill in normal I use savage with berserker (as no pocket healer is with me). For two handed I was just thinking does the numbers add up and is it beneficial as its fun to theory craft comps and perks on dad classes. So for skills: Rage is just a must in general, usually I run reckless attack but since damage reduction might get reworked soon maybe Achilles strike is decent too? Other perks aside I sometimes run iron will when running hr. I will try robust or potions chugger too as I never run that. What about life siphon with +4 all attri with 24 healthloss? If says cleric is available
Clarification question: 3:55-4:25, does the negative default power bonus of Rogue not get cut in half by the forced scaling discussed right after this? So would a default stat rogue's -50% magic power bonus actually be effectively -25% for dots? Also small thing but the graphic at 4:25 seems to be simplifying the power bonus calculation, example (1.15/2 = 1.075) should be (1 + (0.15/2)) = 1.075.
It's a spell, so it technically benefits from everything. Spellbook/Crystal Ball damage would be the most impactful, as it'd get multiplied by your Power Bonus %. Additional and True both work as well. Additional is available in higher quantities on gear, but gets reduced by their Magic Resist, while True has lower numbers on gear, but won't be affected by their Resist. Also, the DoT on Curse of Pain has half-scaling, so you're only benefitting from half of any of these increases. A 6 damage spellbook would add 3, 1 True Damage is 0.5, etc. Also, the training dummy kind of lies to you, because it resets to full HP every time you hit it. The game keeps track of decimal HP on players and enemies, so even tiny increases in your damage DO still affect the DoT. You can go from 1.4 damage/tick to 1.6.
Anyone know if barbarian Armor pen strike and Alkalies strike stack? Like does the dot ticks benefit from the 75% armor pen, also does the dot benefit from the 1,5/1,6 headshot multiplyer?
@clowd what about weapons "combo" multipliers? For example castillion dagger has 150% damage on third attack. Is it only affect weapon damage or works like headshot/limbs multiplier?
I forgot it at the time, but it's in the description as well as the wiki's Damage Calculation Page: darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Damage_Calculation It only affects Weapon Damage, similar to Power Bonus.
On Ranger is there a point of stacking weapon damage and additional damage that at some point Strength/Physical Power would be beneficial in replacement of weapon damage since its multiplied off of your physical power and most likely you're either be negative or very low on the bonus such as 4%. Also how much physical power do you get per point of strength? And how much physical power = 1 weapon damage for ranger?
Depends, if your class is hurting for Power (let's say Rogue with default -17%) then Power might be a better idea. But 2 Weapon Damage is generally going to be better otherwise.
heya so just to understand since I'm a bit curious. at what point does magic damage bonus/magic power, outscale 1 point of add magic. I see some crazy spellbooks but not sure if they do anything compared to add magic.
Depends on the spell's base damage, but usually each point of Magic Power/Will will increase your bonus by 3% before 25 Power, and 2% before 40 Power. Let's take Lightning Strike, for example, with 35 base damage, and something like a 5 damage Spellbook. Adding 3% damage to that 40 base would be 1.2 damage, but adding 2% damage would only be 0.8 damage. So in this very specific scenario, Power would be more impactful than Additional Magic, as long as your Power hasn't exceeded 25 yet. Of course, with smaller damage spells, you're rarely going to get over 1 point of damage from a 3% increase, so even if you have this very specific scenario, you might still not care about Power because it won't benefit things like Magic Missile, Zap, Ice Bolt, each section of Fireball, etc. as much as Lightning Strike/Chain Lightning.
so how and why should I build a wizard? I know that magical damage on books is great but what about the rest? how useful is strength or magical interaction speed on a book?
Power Bonus: Adds to the multiplier that your Weapon Damage is multiplied by. Additional Phys: Flat number of damage added after your Weapon Damage is multiplied by your Power Bonus.
@@ZatchQQ Unless 1% bonus is giving you 1 or more damage, then yes, you'd rather have the raw Additional/Weapon damage. It can get a little more complicated than that, though. Power Bonus % can roll up to 5% on some gear, while Additional and Weapon can roll up to 3. So you'd have to do some personal math to see which one would be more impactful on your specific build.
@clowdk - Im curious in relation to "damage scaling" - In previous patches spell scaling was reduced from 100% to 50% and then reverted. However Bard's shrill spell I think was left at 50%. Im curious where in the equation this scaling applies. I am assuming it occurs after (Base dmg x Bonus damage) - and only affects additonal/true. Is this correct?
It affects any bonus damage. So +Weapon, +Additional, +True, AND Power Bonus. If your Power Bonus is -10%, it becomes -5%, and if it's 40%, it becomes 20%, etc. Full info on it is here: darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Damage_Calculation#Attribute_Bonus_Ratio
I know this probably requires more calculations that wont be worth on a not fleshed out class, but figured id ask. This first one is probably findable via the info in the video but i am smoothbrain: 1. It looked like you said curse of pain does scale off of damage including dot (unless i missaw). Hypothetically, how much true/add magic would it take to get the dot to 5 dps instead of the standard 1? Is that even possible? 2. We know that warlock lifesteal scales with magical healing, but we also know that sources of magical damage factor into that calculation. I assume by increasing magical damage from true/add mag would also increase the scaling from magical healing on things like hellfire hits or crystal sword hits, as large dmg sources seem to chunk your healing. Is this a reasonable assumption? Or do you think it would be negligible?
1. Base is 10 damage over 8 seconds. To get 5 DPS, you'd need to change that 10 to a 40. 2. Lifesteal doesn't scale with magical damage. The amount you get back DOES scale with Magic Power Bonus, but it's a 50% scaler, so default Warlock gets 1.15 hp/tick. The only ways to increase it are Magical Healing and Magic Power Bonus.
Thanks, it must just be each instance of magical damage gives you healing, because hellfire gives you a lot of lifesteal with a dot active but it must just be from the 1 tick of its dmg per second. To clarify, after these caster nerfs just now - how does a cleric increase their healing? I thought someone told me magical healing was only for the amount you were healed for, not the amount you heal others for - that means with the will penalty that magical power will most likely be more beneficial over will? And I guess for wizards addtl magic and true magic became more important as well?
@@lethalgaming9209 Magical Healing was changed at some point to actually work with Cleric's spells as you'd expect. And yeah, True is more important than ever.
So, ignite, blow of corruption, and smite all add instances of magical damage to physical attacks, but I don't think you explicitly said if additional magic damage as an enchantment on gear is added to physical attacks and vice versa if additional physical is added to spell damage. I think physical classes cannot benefit from additional magic damage or true magic damage, but I am really not sure; some clarification on this point would be sublime.
Yeah, Additional Physical won't be added to spells, and Magical stuff won't be added to your weapons. The only way to do so is with things like Ignite, Smite, etc. I remember hearing that in Korea, it was popular to use the Survival Bow with Ignite while the Ranger wore a lot of +Magic Damage gear.
So is it normal for the dot portion of Warlock spell to still do 1 dmg with a 2 magic dmg crystal ball and perks for will/dmg? What parts or dots of Warlocks spells benefit from crystal ball 2 dmg?
The dummy kind of lies to you, because it resets to full HP every time you hit it, and so you'll never see your decimal damage increases. By default, Curse of Pain is doing 1.25 damage per second without factoring in any Power Bonus or damage increases, but you'll never see that on a dummy. Any increase to your damage is affecting it, but in order to actually "turn over" the dummy's damage, you'd need enough bonuses to turn the DOT from 10 damage total to 16 damage total. Also, Dark Enchancement does nothing currently, if that's the damage perk you're talking about. None of Warlock's spells care currently considered Dark Magic.
@@clowdk So is the 2 magic dmg from ball not bumping the dot to 2.25 dmg per tick? Which would make it over 16. Or only + 2 additional magic dmg stat/true dmg on gear makes the dot higher? Thanks for the replies btw
@@clowdk Ohhh so 2 impact dmg and 2 to total dot. So 2 magic dmg for Warlock curse = 4 total dmg increase? And does blow of corruption magic portion get inc by Ball 2 magic dmg?
amazing imput...but quick question...wehat about smite? what adds to it damage best? if additional magic and true magic dmg works for it .. im sure that would.. but ffrom what im seeing im not sure they do. i may be wrong and bad at math but who knows.
There's a lot of damage stacking in this game. With +10 Weapon Damage on gear, with something like a blue Falchion, plus headshot bonus, you're looking at 72 damage. And that's no Power Bonus. There's much higher damage potential, but that's a modest build you'd see a well-geared Fighter using.
To get the most DPS output for a let's sat a Wizard, what would it be? True magic dmg>additional magic dmg>magical damage bonus right? OR would magical power or will take its place?
Will gives Magic Power/Magical Damage Bonus (those two are effectively the same stat), but that only affects the base damage of spells. Additional Damage scales with headshots and has bigger numbers on gear, but True avoids resistances entirely. If you wanted to be very specific and min-max about it, you'd probably want +2 True Magic on the pieces of gear that it's possible on (two-handed weapons, chestpiece, legs, and pendant), and +2 Additional on the gear where it's not possible, unless you expect to somehow run into players with 50%+ Magic Resist (very difficult unless they're running Barbarian with Iron Will perk while stacking Will on every piece of gear). And THEN, Knowledge boosts cast time, and Agility speeds up the "swing" animation of your cast, so those both contribute to DPS.
@@clowdk Figured. Yea I’m pretty much stacking True magical dmg>additional magic dmg right now was trying to figure out what’s the 3rd and 4th best. I figured Will then magical damage bonus? lol been trying to test it all out
@@Malphaze All Attributes is a pretty high priority. It's Magic Damage Bonus, Cast Time, movement speed, health... Unless your goal is PURE damage with no care for actual survivability, you should be trying to get it where possible.
@@clowdk Yea I usually stack All Attrib>True>additional>will>knowledge is my main but i’ve been just testing lately and been stacking pure damage and killing everyone with direct fireballs doing over 200 dmg lol
With the additional and true damage, do these only get added to their relevant dmg type? (Ie. does added physical dmg only get added to instances of physical dmg?)
It doesn't, it multiplies their damage reduction (as mentioned in the video). If you had 10% armor penetration, it'd change their damage reduction by 0.9x.
@@clowdk If I'm not mistaken, you could also say that Armor Pen converts the displayed % of your damage to True Damage. At least, every example that I plugged in returned the same values for both interpretations. I feel like it makes the formula slightly simpler since it means you only have to factor in your opponent's PDR once.
Shouldn't damage per hit factor into which stat to go for? For example if I have a 50 damage longsword, boosting my phys power bonus by 3% would make it deal 51.5(if I was at 0% phys power at base) , which means that it'd be better than boosting it to just 51 with +1 weapon damage. But if I'm using something that is swinging really fast with low damage per swing, then going for +damage would be better, right? As a 3% bonus on something like a 30 damage shortsword would take it to 30. 9 damage, while weapon damage would bring it to 31
@@DailyDoseOfRustTv Except the video says that you should just go for +damage rather than an attribute like str or phys power, so I'm wondering what the logic for that is
@@Namthre The video says "it depends, but generally Weapon Damage". Point-for-point, Weapon Damage is more impactful in most cases. You ran the numbers with 3% Phys Power Bonus vs. 1 Weapon Damage, but you can get +3 Weapon Damage on pieces of gear.
@@clowdk right, I was just using a simple number for easy math, I think +damage % can get up to 5. Good to know that it can be worth going for on big damage slow rpm attacks
Okay, one stupid question: If I'm a Fighter that uses Weapon Mastery perk and uses a Rogue dagger with 10% physical damage bonus penalty, does this mean I can just nullify this penalty just by increasing the bonus by 10% or more?
Does True Physical Damage increase damage on Rupture or is that only for Additional Damage? Same with Poisson Weapon, does True Magic Damage increase the damage?
Having just had a run in goblin caves where i chased a rogue down and punched him to death, it made me wonder what the base damage of fists is, and if they possible scale differently. any info there?
You're an absolute hero to the community.
Dude, you're a legend. Totally gonna use this info for fair and balanced builds.
Says the guy who only has a wizard and rogue
Sincerely thank you for taking the time to do this. The information is in this game is very hard to find so it's great to see
If anyone was curious, Crystal Swords will add your +Additional Magic Damage to their melee attacks. I tested it out on the target dummies in the goblin caves.
Watched every single video of yours talking about dark and darker, and i've got to say... your content is amazing; short, sweet, and straight to the point. I've subscribed and I'll recommend you to my friends as well
Updates:
2023/08/23: Weakpoint Attack now functions differently, reducing AR instead of PDR%. This makes figuring out how much Weakpoint is affecting your damage very... weird and unintuitive. It won't affect the bonuses you get from PDR% on gear, Taunt, Holy Protection, Protection Shrines, and the AR to PDR curve is very variable and awkward to calculate.
We've also found that there may be more limb multipliers than merely 50%. For example, your arm takes more damage than your hand.
I've just tested a rogue that's going all in on magical damage, with a magic power bonus of 5% and 6 true magical damage and 15 additional magic damage. Training dummy test shows the stacks dealing 3-4 damage a tick with this. Scaled down that should be 1(base) +3 +7.5=11.5 a tick , but is not the case. There's three different explanations I have for this:
1) The attribute scaling modifier is actually more severe than 50% for poison weapon.
2) The 11.5 total is added to the 4, resulting in 15.5, resulting in the tick being 3.75, and training dummy rounds down.
3) Ironmace have hard-capped how much damage poison weapon can do.
Would be cool to hear your take on which it is.
@@Mitril47 It's option 2.
Need you to do one for clerics and healing. With will knowledge magical healing and magical power please
@@mathew4485 It's basically the same. The only stats that matter are Magical Healing (acts like +Weapon or +Magical) and Magic Power Bonus (which gets influenced by Magic Power and Will). Default Cleric Lesser Heal with Advanced Healer is (15 + 5) * 1.4, or 28.
@@clowdk is 1 will +1 magical power ?
These videos are just entertaining to watch, you could talk about anything and id listen
Super helpful, sent this one to my friends so we can all make our builds even better. Thank you
I've keep coming back to watch this video because it is insaaaaaaaaaaaaanely helpful thank you so much for the content!
Thank you for creating this. Have been wondering about exact numbers since the wiki doesn't seem to show everything, this clears some things up keep up the good work
We've been workin' on trying to fill in more and more details there, so if there's anything in particular you need, let me know. A proper Damage Calculation page was added recently.
Goated Video For Math Nerds like myself. This confirmed a lot of my assumption which I was pretty certain on, but I still got to learn a bit due to the projectile segment and the Various Discrepancies.
i was looking for a video like this yesterday to figure out how to optimally build my wizard. I'm pretty sure you are the first. like + Sub GOAT
Your videos are always great. I also see you contributing on the wiki. Good man. Thank you for your service
This is amazing! Have you ever considered making a list of perks and for each one determining if it adds weapon damage, additional damage, true damage, %physicalpowerbonus, or physicalpower?
Amazing video on this!
That would be on the wiki. The descriptions there are changed to be more accurate compared to the in-game descriptions.
So in general prioritize Strength and Weapon damage. Add magic damage for casters.
For low strength Rogues you can go for true and add phys damage to ignore your power penalty.
%Damage probably isn't as good unless you have ridiculous gear and stats, in which case you're going to kill quick anyway.
If you want the formula written out, here it is:
(((Weapon Damage * Impact Zone Bonus * Combo Bonus * (1 + Power Bonus)) + Additional Physical Damage) * (1 + Hit Location Bonus) * (1 - Damage Reduction) * (1 - Projectile Reduction)) + True Damage
I forgot to include Impact Zone and Combo bonuses. Think of Impact Zone as your sweet/sourspots on your weapon, and Combo as the bonus damage your weapon gets for latter hits in the combo. These only multiply Weapon Damage, same as Power Bonus.
Formula is same for Magical Damage, just substitute the words "Weapon" and "Physical" with "Magical".
The only time Combo and Impact Zone apply to Magical Damage is if it's the Crystal Sword's special "Magical Weapon Damage".
I have been so curious about how everything works for a while now. You are a godsend. Instant like and subscribe.
THE CONTENT NO ONE WANTS TO MAKE BUT EVERYONE NEEDS
Would like to see some practical builds for each class. Say you limit yourself to a base class with 4 perks and then see how you can max out your damage using roughly the same stat increases in different positions.
instant sub. looking forward to future videos.
You did some deep research, I RESPECT
Outt dated calculations DaD updated on 8/22/2023 with a new DR calculation
The Armor Rating curve has been modified and slightly flattened at the very high range.
Physical Damage Reduction now has a hard cap of 85%.
DR still functions the exact same way in terms of multiplication, the difference is what their DR would be. Doesn't change the equation at all. What DID change is Weakpoint's functionality.
You are the light where there is only darkness, friend
That was needed. Thank you for your work
Not all heroes wear capes, but someone ought to trade you one.
it would be so cool if there was some kind of excel sheet you could add in the numbers and see your damage output. thanks for the explanations
Holy shit someone actually did this. Youre a legend
The goat returns just in time
Appreciate the video, thanks for sharing!
You're a saint for making these videos
would be interested to know the scaling for all things healing & protection spell
Awesome Video, always come back here to refresh my memory. I’m still confused about Additional Damage and True Damage. Based on the calculations, aren’t they the same thing but with True Damage being a little Better?
No, they are calculated differently. Additional is added earlier on in the formula, and so is affected by things like damage reduction and headshot/limb multipliers. True is added at the end of everything, meaning that it cannot benefit from head/limb multipliers, but it also cannot be reduced by damage reduction.
I'm unsure of the current enchantment balance (I haven't played in some time), but at some point, Additional was more plentiful than True as well. You could get +3 Additional, but only +2 True. I don't know if that's the case now, be sure to check the wiki. If the available amounts ARE different in current version, then that is another factor to consider.
Our search is finally summarized
Did some testing with Rouge's Rupture
It seems that "+weapon dmg stats" doesn't need to be divided by 2 (as the example you said with Achilles strike at 4:12)
As long as your physical power is over 0%, +5 weapon dmg gear made my dot dmg go from 4 to 5
I have recorded the test on YT (uploaded on private though) if you want to examine it.
I want to say, hellfire will only give me the damage info in the warm up room if I hit a arrow type target. The dummies give me zero damage information
What stat should i pump for the biggest damage benefits from bard's "piercing shrill" flute song?
Additional Physical/True Physical. Probably True Physical, because a lot of teams are running Physical Damage Reduction lately.
Damn, and here I was thinkning Axe specialization was giving me 5 more weapon damage which sounded insane to me. In reality, its giving 5 physical :(
The musik u used is great. cool vibe!
love these videos
he returns
Followed everything except 4b. IMO, you glossed over the part about damage reduction quite a bit too quick. I don't know all the spells in the game and their text, so even deciphering the text made it a bit unclear.
Anyway, this was a great video. Liked and subbed.
Awesome video! Thanks for the info!
Please keep these coming! I would love it if you could do a class breakdown. I would really like to have a numbers guy like you help me understand how to build the most optimal burn mage or poison/bleed rogue. I sort of got a hang of it watching your video but feel like I'm missing some key concepts. With dot damage, it appears that the power bonus damage and additional damage are both cut in half however would it be best to focus on additional damage/true damage due to those being added instead of multiplied by your total damage?
For DoTs I'd personally recommend True Damage where possible, because higher-geared players are almost always going to have enough resistances to get 1% reduction or higher. The only exception are the weird DoTs that benefit from headshots, which is... Ignite, and nothing else, I believe.
Why barb ( in defaule gear,axe) Got more damage with AXE SPECIALIZATION then SAVAGE ( if both inc phys dmg bonus by 10)
47.5(axe spec) and 45.6( savege) dmg by 1 attack with default axe
Please make class specific videos that spoon feed me info on what stats are ideal because I'm dumb ( im speaking for the majority of the DaD community myself mainly).
Wouldn't Rogue's base poison damage's power bonus at 3:55 be 0.75x not 0.5x since it has 50% scaling? So 0.675 damage a second.
Correct, minor error on my part
A question I’ve been wondering about is whether or not Physical/Magical Bonus affects skills like Judgement, and this answered that. I did run into something tho, while I was in goblin caves I hit the target dummy with a War Maul as Cleric, in the body, and it did 49 damage. I then hit the dummy in the head, and it did about 89 damage, which made me think the headshot bonus was 80%. I didn’t have any buffs active at the time, just Blunt Weapon mastery. What might have caused that?
Maybe it was limb
Could have been the weapon's impact zones. Hitting with the handle does less damage than hitting with the head of the Maul, for instance.
Hey @clowed I managed to get curse of pain to do 2 damage dot but I can’t get it to go higher. Any tips ?
Any increase is valuable, because the game keeps track of decimal HP. You might be dealing 2.1 or 2.2 per tick and it won't show up on the dummy, but it will help against players and enemies.
Nice work dude!
Great video, do you have an idea of when +magical healing is placed in the healing equation? does it come before or after power bonus?
It should be before.
so much calculation while u get get one shooted by every crossbow when u play wizard
Are spell like curse of pain, fireball, zap, helfire, or chain lightning subject to headshot and body shot multipliers?
Some are, some aren't. It mostly seems to boil down to whether the hit is considered a "projectile". Zap, Chain Lightning, Hellfire, and Curse of Pain aren't considered projectiles, so they don't benefit. Fireball's Direct Hit portion is, as are Ice Bolt and Magic Missile, so they do benefit.
So ignites' DoT benefits from Additional magic damage? And if so, why doesn't any of the ignite wizards run fire mastery? If you had +20 add magic damage, wouldn't that mean the burn effect alone would burn for 60 damage (not taking resistance into account)?
No, because the DoT is all one flat damage number that gets calculated first, then divided by duration. You get damage over the total duration, not per-tick. If you added +20 to Fireball's afterburn, it'd go from 3 damage to 13 (because of the 50% scaling), then divided by 3 for 4.333 damage per tick. Same with Ignite, but Ignite doesn't even benefit from Fire Mastery's afterburn duration buff, so there's that.
Amazing work
We need a testing range!
@clowdk
Hello, i'm maybe wrong but i don't understand.
I hit with my crossbow Headshot 110 on dummy when mathematic say i hit 164.285
(((62 * (1 + 4.7%)) + o) * (1 + 150%) * (1 - 0) * (1 - O)) + 2 = 164.285
Where 62 is Weapon Damage + Add Weapon Damage
4.7% is Power Bonus
o is 0 Additional damage
150% is headshot multiplier
0 is 0 damage reduction
O is 0 projectile reduction
2 is true damage
I really don't get the 54 drop damage
i love kirby air ride music :^)
@clowd thanks for uploading quality info! I was just wondering for best damage output perks and skill for barb.
Perks:
1. Axe specialization
2. Executioner
3. Two hander (sometimes I run berserker here)
4. This one im quite unsure whether to run berserker/carnage/savage (if I have good tunic I swapped the savage out)
Skills:
1. Rage (usually I but thinking
2. Reckless attack ( I swap to achilles strike when doing solo or duo eco runs)
But I just had an idea if the rage is swapped with achilles strike will it be more beneficial? Or even using life siphon to limit test barb too.
What’s your thoughts or if ever you tried to try this too?
Thanks!
Savage is more powerful than Two Hander (10% over 5%), and is actually more impactful than Executioner with base Strength. I don't think Two-Hander is generally worth running if you have Savage up, and if you've got a chestpiece you're probably tanky/geared enough that bringing something like Berserker, Robust, or even Potion Chugger is a better idea than adding another 5%. I also think Crush is pretty important to have, breaking doors down can be invaluable for pushes/escapes.
Rage is pretty much non-negotiable, imo. Having movement speed buffs is almost always the strongest skill you can bring, period, and Rage gives a damage buff on top of that. Unless you've got teammates to speed-buff you (Haste, Accelerando), and even then, stacking Rage with those is even better.
Yoo thanks for the reply, I really like the way you dissect all the given information. Yes generally when running eco runs or just chill in normal I use savage with berserker (as no pocket healer is with me). For two handed I was just thinking does the numbers add up and is it beneficial as its fun to theory craft comps and perks on dad classes.
So for skills:
Rage is just a must in general, usually I run reckless attack but since damage reduction might get reworked soon maybe Achilles strike is decent too?
Other perks aside I sometimes run iron will when running hr. I will try robust or potions chugger too as I never run that.
What about life siphon with +4 all attri with 24 healthloss? If says cleric is available
Absolute legend!
Clarification question: 3:55-4:25, does the negative default power bonus of Rogue not get cut in half by the forced scaling discussed right after this? So would a default stat rogue's -50% magic power bonus actually be effectively -25% for dots? Also small thing but the graphic at 4:25 seems to be simplifying the power bonus calculation, example (1.15/2 = 1.075) should be (1 + (0.15/2)) = 1.075.
Yeah, those were a few minor errors on my part. You're correct in both departments.
Never cared for your politics much but ngl this is some solid work Mr Shapiro
Weapom dmg stat is and was op and they instead nerfed attributes. Reddit is always wrong lmao
Thanks, you should do a video on armor/weapon rarity and possible stat rolls, cuz i dont think theres any info on it :/
insane video on game knowledge
Great video bro, could I ask and apologies if it was covered and I missed it.
How does one increase the DoT effect of Curse of Pain?
It's a spell, so it technically benefits from everything. Spellbook/Crystal Ball damage would be the most impactful, as it'd get multiplied by your Power Bonus %. Additional and True both work as well. Additional is available in higher quantities on gear, but gets reduced by their Magic Resist, while True has lower numbers on gear, but won't be affected by their Resist. Also, the DoT on Curse of Pain has half-scaling, so you're only benefitting from half of any of these increases. A 6 damage spellbook would add 3, 1 True Damage is 0.5, etc.
Also, the training dummy kind of lies to you, because it resets to full HP every time you hit it. The game keeps track of decimal HP on players and enemies, so even tiny increases in your damage DO still affect the DoT. You can go from 1.4 damage/tick to 1.6.
@@clowdk Wow, very insightful thankyou very much mate. Appreciate the information!
Anyone know if barbarian Armor pen strike and Alkalies strike stack? Like does the dot ticks benefit from the 75% armor pen, also does the dot benefit from the 1,5/1,6 headshot multiplyer?
The DoT does not benefit from headshots, and only the initial attack benefits from Armor Penetration, as I understand it.
Thank you@@clowdk
Is that Kirby air ride music in the background?
Aye
@clowd what about weapons "combo" multipliers? For example castillion dagger has 150% damage on third attack. Is it only affect weapon damage or works like headshot/limbs multiplier?
I forgot it at the time, but it's in the description as well as the wiki's Damage Calculation Page:
darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Damage_Calculation
It only affects Weapon Damage, similar to Power Bonus.
How does the new penetrating shot fit in to the calculations? Wondering if true shot is more powerful on a gray crossbow
On Ranger is there a point of stacking weapon damage and additional damage that at some point Strength/Physical Power would be beneficial in replacement of weapon damage since its multiplied off of your physical power and most likely you're either be negative or very low on the bonus such as 4%. Also how much physical power do you get per point of strength? And how much physical power = 1 weapon damage for ranger?
@clowd what about stuff that gives like 4% physical power bonus? Is it better than lets say 2 weapon damage?
Depends, if your class is hurting for Power (let's say Rogue with default -17%) then Power might be a better idea. But 2 Weapon Damage is generally going to be better otherwise.
My brain still exploded
heya so just to understand since I'm a bit curious.
at what point does magic damage bonus/magic power, outscale 1 point of add magic. I see some crazy spellbooks but not sure if they do anything compared to add magic.
Depends on the spell's base damage, but usually each point of Magic Power/Will will increase your bonus by 3% before 25 Power, and 2% before 40 Power. Let's take Lightning Strike, for example, with 35 base damage, and something like a 5 damage Spellbook. Adding 3% damage to that 40 base would be 1.2 damage, but adding 2% damage would only be 0.8 damage. So in this very specific scenario, Power would be more impactful than Additional Magic, as long as your Power hasn't exceeded 25 yet. Of course, with smaller damage spells, you're rarely going to get over 1 point of damage from a 3% increase, so even if you have this very specific scenario, you might still not care about Power because it won't benefit things like Magic Missile, Zap, Ice Bolt, each section of Fireball, etc. as much as Lightning Strike/Chain Lightning.
So basically whats the best and the worst damage/power stats on wizard?
so how and why should I build a wizard? I know that magical damage on books is great but what about the rest? how useful is strength or magical interaction speed on a book?
i dont understand the difference between additional physical damage and physical damage bonus
Power Bonus: Adds to the multiplier that your Weapon Damage is multiplied by.
Additional Phys: Flat number of damage added after your Weapon Damage is multiplied by your Power Bonus.
@@clowdk so add damage is way better than bonus
@@ZatchQQ Unless 1% bonus is giving you 1 or more damage, then yes, you'd rather have the raw Additional/Weapon damage. It can get a little more complicated than that, though. Power Bonus % can roll up to 5% on some gear, while Additional and Weapon can roll up to 3. So you'd have to do some personal math to see which one would be more impactful on your specific build.
doin the lords work
@clowdk - Im curious in relation to "damage scaling" - In previous patches spell scaling was reduced from 100% to 50% and then reverted. However Bard's shrill spell I think was left at 50%. Im curious where in the equation this scaling applies. I am assuming it occurs after (Base dmg x Bonus damage) - and only affects additonal/true. Is this correct?
It affects any bonus damage. So +Weapon, +Additional, +True, AND Power Bonus. If your Power Bonus is -10%, it becomes -5%, and if it's 40%, it becomes 20%, etc.
Full info on it is here: darkanddarker.wiki.spellsandguns.com/Damage_Calculation#Attribute_Bonus_Ratio
I know this probably requires more calculations that wont be worth on a not fleshed out class, but figured id ask. This first one is probably findable via the info in the video but i am smoothbrain:
1. It looked like you said curse of pain does scale off of damage including dot (unless i missaw). Hypothetically, how much true/add magic would it take to get the dot to 5 dps instead of the standard 1? Is that even possible?
2. We know that warlock lifesteal scales with magical healing, but we also know that sources of magical damage factor into that calculation. I assume by increasing magical damage from true/add mag would also increase the scaling from magical healing on things like hellfire hits or crystal sword hits, as large dmg sources seem to chunk your healing. Is this a reasonable assumption? Or do you think it would be negligible?
1. Base is 10 damage over 8 seconds. To get 5 DPS, you'd need to change that 10 to a 40.
2. Lifesteal doesn't scale with magical damage. The amount you get back DOES scale with Magic Power Bonus, but it's a 50% scaler, so default Warlock gets 1.15 hp/tick. The only ways to increase it are Magical Healing and Magic Power Bonus.
Thanks, it must just be each instance of magical damage gives you healing, because hellfire gives you a lot of lifesteal with a dot active but it must just be from the 1 tick of its dmg per second.
To clarify, after these caster nerfs just now - how does a cleric increase their healing? I thought someone told me magical healing was only for the amount you were healed for, not the amount you heal others for - that means with the will penalty that magical power will most likely be more beneficial over will?
And I guess for wizards addtl magic and true magic became more important as well?
@@lethalgaming9209 Magical Healing was changed at some point to actually work with Cleric's spells as you'd expect. And yeah, True is more important than ever.
ambush rogues prio str+wdmg. got it. thanks cutie
So, ignite, blow of corruption, and smite all add instances of magical damage to physical attacks, but I don't think you explicitly said if additional magic damage as an enchantment on gear is added to physical attacks and vice versa if additional physical is added to spell damage. I think physical classes cannot benefit from additional magic damage or true magic damage, but I am really not sure; some clarification on this point would be sublime.
Yeah, Additional Physical won't be added to spells, and Magical stuff won't be added to your weapons. The only way to do so is with things like Ignite, Smite, etc. I remember hearing that in Korea, it was popular to use the Survival Bow with Ignite while the Ranger wore a lot of +Magic Damage gear.
what a great vid.
So is it normal for the dot portion of Warlock spell to still do 1 dmg with a 2 magic dmg crystal ball and perks for will/dmg? What parts or dots of Warlocks spells benefit from crystal ball 2 dmg?
The dummy kind of lies to you, because it resets to full HP every time you hit it, and so you'll never see your decimal damage increases. By default, Curse of Pain is doing 1.25 damage per second without factoring in any Power Bonus or damage increases, but you'll never see that on a dummy. Any increase to your damage is affecting it, but in order to actually "turn over" the dummy's damage, you'd need enough bonuses to turn the DOT from 10 damage total to 16 damage total.
Also, Dark Enchancement does nothing currently, if that's the damage perk you're talking about. None of Warlock's spells care currently considered Dark Magic.
@@clowdk So is the 2 magic dmg from ball not bumping the dot to 2.25 dmg per tick? Which would make it over 16. Or only + 2 additional magic dmg stat/true dmg on gear makes the dot higher?
Thanks for the replies btw
@@ZK-nb3cq It adds to the total of the DoT, which is 10 by default, divided by 8 seconds. It doesn't add 2 per tick, it adds 2 to that total.
@@clowdk Ohhh so 2 impact dmg and 2 to total dot. So 2 magic dmg for Warlock curse = 4 total dmg increase?
And does blow of corruption magic portion get inc by Ball 2 magic dmg?
@@ZK-nb3cq The DoT gets half benefit, so 2 for impact and 1 for DoT = 3 total.
And yes, BoC does benefit from Ball damage.
amazing imput...but quick question...wehat about smite? what adds to it damage best? if additional magic and true magic dmg works for it .. im sure that would.. but ffrom what im seeing im not sure they do. i may be wrong and bad at math but who knows.
They do add to Smite. True Magical is probably best, because Smite can't benefit from headshots.
I literally cant tell you how many times ive been hit once and gotten taken down to 1 hp, Its like so frustrating but i gotta know why!
There's a lot of damage stacking in this game. With +10 Weapon Damage on gear, with something like a blue Falchion, plus headshot bonus, you're looking at 72 damage. And that's no Power Bonus. There's much higher damage potential, but that's a modest build you'd see a well-geared Fighter using.
will true magical damage be added to the damage of a regular weapon without any base magical damage
To get the most DPS output for a let's sat a Wizard, what would it be? True magic dmg>additional magic dmg>magical damage bonus right? OR would magical power or will take its place?
Will gives Magic Power/Magical Damage Bonus (those two are effectively the same stat), but that only affects the base damage of spells. Additional Damage scales with headshots and has bigger numbers on gear, but True avoids resistances entirely. If you wanted to be very specific and min-max about it, you'd probably want +2 True Magic on the pieces of gear that it's possible on (two-handed weapons, chestpiece, legs, and pendant), and +2 Additional on the gear where it's not possible, unless you expect to somehow run into players with 50%+ Magic Resist (very difficult unless they're running Barbarian with Iron Will perk while stacking Will on every piece of gear). And THEN, Knowledge boosts cast time, and Agility speeds up the "swing" animation of your cast, so those both contribute to DPS.
@@clowdk Figured. Yea I’m pretty much stacking True magical dmg>additional magic dmg right now was trying to figure out what’s the 3rd and 4th best. I figured Will then magical damage bonus? lol been trying to test it all out
@@Malphaze All Attributes is a pretty high priority. It's Magic Damage Bonus, Cast Time, movement speed, health... Unless your goal is PURE damage with no care for actual survivability, you should be trying to get it where possible.
@@clowdk Yea I usually stack All Attrib>True>additional>will>knowledge is my main but i’ve been just testing lately and been stacking pure damage and killing everyone with direct fireballs doing over 200 dmg lol
You should make an excel where you can put in stats and it gives you dps and max hits.
So what would be better go realistically? Weap damage or additional physical damage ?
Weapon, unless you're specifically building for things like Rupture or your Power Bonus is super negative.
ok ty@@clowdk
"babe, how does DND even work, how do i play?"
Me:
Does +additional weapon damage apply to the "additional" or "weapon damage" category? (affected by physical power bonus)
Depends on the source. In-game perk descriptions are very misleading. Check the wiki for the exact functionality.
Bruh.. I was waiting for him to hit a dummy for like 200 kinda sad that didn't happen
With the additional and true damage, do these only get added to their relevant dmg type? (Ie. does added physical dmg only get added to instances of physical dmg?)
What about armor penetration? This increases the final damage as a %. For a Barbarian, armor penetration might be stronger than weapon damage.
It doesn't, it multiplies their damage reduction (as mentioned in the video). If you had 10% armor penetration, it'd change their damage reduction by 0.9x.
@@clowdk If I'm not mistaken, you could also say that Armor Pen converts the displayed % of your damage to True Damage. At least, every example that I plugged in returned the same values for both interpretations. I feel like it makes the formula slightly simpler since it means you only have to factor in your opponent's PDR once.
Shouldn't damage per hit factor into which stat to go for? For example if I have a 50 damage longsword, boosting my phys power bonus by 3% would make it deal 51.5(if I was at 0% phys power at base) , which means that it'd be better than boosting it to just 51 with +1 weapon damage. But if I'm using something that is swinging really fast with low damage per swing, then going for +damage would be better, right? As a 3% bonus on something like a 30 damage shortsword would take it to 30. 9 damage, while weapon damage would bring it to 31
yes u answered ur own question
@@DailyDoseOfRustTv Except the video says that you should just go for +damage rather than an attribute like str or phys power, so I'm wondering what the logic for that is
@@Namthre The video says "it depends, but generally Weapon Damage". Point-for-point, Weapon Damage is more impactful in most cases. You ran the numbers with 3% Phys Power Bonus vs. 1 Weapon Damage, but you can get +3 Weapon Damage on pieces of gear.
@@clowdk right, I was just using a simple number for easy math, I think +damage % can get up to 5. Good to know that it can be worth going for on big damage slow rpm attacks
Okay, one stupid question: If I'm a Fighter that uses Weapon Mastery perk and uses a Rogue dagger with 10% physical damage bonus penalty, does this mean I can just nullify this penalty just by increasing the bonus by 10% or more?
Correct
Does True Physical Damage increase damage on Rupture or is that only for Additional Damage? Same with Poisson Weapon, does True Magic Damage increase the damage?
Yes they do! (Both scale at .5 thought meaning they would need +2 to get an actual extra damage on the poison or rupture)
Having just had a run in goblin caves where i chased a rogue down and punched him to death, it made me wonder what the base damage of fists is, and if they possible scale differently. any info there?
15 Physical Damage is their base, and they benefit from Weapon Damage and all that the same as any other weapon.
Can you make a video like this for warlock?
incredible video