They won the battle but lost the war because at the end of the day, nobody wants to see part of EnVogue, they want to see all of the original members together.
Bryan Cee but thats the problem, dawn and maxine are being petty about the break up. I want the original 4 back together badly but dawn and maxine would have to be on board
@@knightd12 you got to be joking they were never back up singers they were the VOICE of the group please don't ever say that about TERRY AND CINDY THEY CAN SAAAAAAANNNNG CAN YOU
The real issue: En Vogue never existed as a cohesive group to begin! Terry was getting ducked by Denzil Foster (major producer of En Vogue) and was enjoying the lifestyle and benefits of the producer's lifestyle (his cars, mansion, fortune, etc). Moreover, Terry got to exercise her solo options first (perk of being ducked by the producer I'm sure). Then there's Cindy who was already in a stable situation with her rich pro-baseball husband Glenn Braggs. So, financially and realistically, Terry and Cindy were all set to continue in the group. Maxine was single, got married, had a baby, then got divorced. So she is the sole earner again. No solo career. No fringe benefits from ducking the producer, etc. Enter Dawn. Same deal, no second-income-earning husband (at that time 1997) and her solo deal was trumped for the "EV4" album that became "EV3." Okay people, these are just facts not alternative facts. These 4 women will attest to these facts because they happened. Sylvia Rhone erred when she decided NOT to pursue Dawn's solo album contemporaneously with Terry's (or some short time thereafter). That music recorded for Dawn's album has never been heard by the public... Main point: Dawn and Maxine were justified in how they decided to depart; their positions and plights are separate and different from Cindy's and Terry's. I do believe Terry holds Dawn responsible for the failure and downfall of EN Vogue in the late 1990s when she (Terry) needs to appreciate how Dawn and Maxine felt instead of, as she states above, "...that doesn't exist." No empathy ever.
This is what I have told people for years ... it has been so many years that people forget Terry was involved with him. As you said, she was reaping those benefits and Cindy was in a stable marriage/family situation pretty much from the start. It's all about perspective.
Christian Grey what you said is sooo true! Basically, Cindy and Terry were fine with contracts they had. Dawn believed they deserved more than what they earned and that’s there principal of all of the problems
As a true fan I follow the group whoever is singing in there. True fans fighting over a reunion of the original which will probably never happen and support them regardless. They have good and bad on all post “Dawn” En Vogue and “Maxine” En Vogue. So why didn’t fans support Dawn when she first left? So petty...
+Jp Reddy I disagree. Out of every million they make, they get (collectively) only R80,000. Before tax is deducted. Each girl would get less than $20,000. That leaves $920,000 for the music company. Hair, makeup, etc, etc, doesn't cost anywhere near that. They were being robbed blind.
True, but Britney Spears does none of that and she makes millions each year. The girls were being underpaid and Dawn mentioned it and only Max said "I agree". Terri only cared about paying her bills and she was making enough to do that while also dating a rich producer who had enough money to give her, her very own solo album. Cyndi was married to a rich sports star. Both Terri and Cyndi were well looked after money wise, so En Vogue to them was just about getting to sing and make a few extra dollars but for Dawn and Max it was a lot of work and a lot of hours with shit pay and no husband or BF to support them like the other two had. Terri and Cyndi felt everything was fine for them...but it was Dawn and Max who were getting screwed and Dawn basically said "We can fucking sing, and sing damn well and we're a huge success. We deserve good pay". But only Max agreed. The management were taking all their money and not giving them the amount that other girl groups and singings were making at the time, and Dawn found that out by talking to other singers in the business and saying to all four girls "Why are we making less money than everyone else when we're selling more albums"? It just didn't matter to T and C. But it mattered to M and D and Dawn left for that reason. When you're a success, your management should know to pay you well, but theirs was taking their money and fucking them over!
10 yrs later since interview and the ladies are touring and generating a demand even with just half of the original members…..that’s a testament of how great all four of the women were in en vogue
So sorry En Vogue couldn't stay together. This group was and still is one of the most gifted and awesome group of the 1990`s. What I love about En Vogue they all can sing lead. It never was about one sings lead all the and the rest do back ground. Unlike Destiny Child it was always Beyonce. These women are talented, beautiful, sexy and classy. The harmonies among them were great. I sometimes couldn't express who I love better because, they all brought it collectively together. Such a shame it had to end.
Terry had no money in 1999 and she had to sing back up for Toni Braxton on tour. She forgets to mention that. Cindy had a rich husband. Dawn was right about their money issues the group was having.
Actually, Terry did that (along with her best friend at the time Chante Moore) as a favor for Frank Gatson not because she didn't have money. Financially Terry was good because of her partner being their producer.
@@JLPerryTV toni sisters were tired of being doowop pop pop chick's lol. If u watched the Braxton reality show u know toni reached a point in her career where she no longer wanted her sisters to be her background singers
The other two had a problem with money. This is the tlc story again. as you notice these two dont talk about the pennies that they were paid, the other two does talk about it. They say a paycheck beats no paycheck. The other two says that they wanted to be paid what they were worth. Look at the other side of the story and you may understand the full picture.
James Torti well these two were married to a football player and Teri was dating or married to one of their producers so for them not a biggie still had nice houses, cars, vacations etc. Dawn n Max did have money outside of music which they were getting 2 pennies off of each album. I’m mean they were making millions but they had to pay off designers, hair, makeup, limos, lawyers, managers etc. pretty much everything then say $200k is left divide by four $50k each which is chump change while everyone else is making 6-7 figures and living large on curtesy of EnVogue. But back then it happened to a lot of Artists TLC, Toni Braxton, *NSYNC, Easy-E and Dr.Dre and most of Death Row artists. Not so much now because artists heard all the stories so now every word is read on the contracts, hire their own lawyers and not one that’s their managers or record labels lawyer get their own accountant. They do background check look at the reviews online I mean they can do so much to secure but back in the 80s 90s to 2005 couldn’t do much plus they were young, naive and trusted the ppl around them not knowing their out there busting their asses off and the leaches are sucking them dry.
James Torti I love terry and Cindy but hell naw it’s all about the money . When terry says she’s trying to just take care of her family I need to see the checks coming in as receipts !
The difference between En Vogue mess and Xscape mess is that En Vogue disagreed from a business perspective where as Xscape disagreed from a personal perspective.
@@brianellison2042 and also Xscape grew up and went to school together so they were friends first. En Vogue auditioned for this group and didn’t know each other before. Even though they had good chemistry they still didn’t know each other before they started singing together like Xscape did.
As a fan, I hate knowing that something so great was destroyed because of money. They were one of my favorite groups from my high school and college days. Amazingly talented and stunningly beautiful! What's so hard about wiping the slate clean and starting with new contracts where the ladies get equal shares of the money earned? That is TOO much talent to never see assembled again!!!
no that lady didnt say "them other two heifers." Cindy cleaned it up nicely. And FYI whoever wants to see a cat fight or a train wreck reality TV show with En Vogue isnt a true and loyal fan.
Terry and Cindy had a dream to become stars and they were blessed to be stars! You expected them to walk away from their dream because Dawn and Max decided to walk away…?
Dawn expected them to stick together as a group to get paid their worth. Cindy purportedly was in better financial shape so the passion to fight was not the same. Also, it's been reported that Terri had something going on with the producer (and may be that's why she got to record her solo album) so perhaps that's why didn't want to fight. I wouldn't say they are "stars". Together they could've been "beyonce" status.
Right!! This is what I try to explain to people who say Terry and Cindy didnt care about the money because the men in their lives had money. Thats BS. Terry, Cindy, Dawn and Maxine HAD A DREAM. They were young, ambitious and VERY talented and they arent going to drop their hopes and dreams for a man.
This is how LADIES conduct themselves during an interview discussing a disagreement involving other women. No name calling, no cursing, no shade throwing...just an articulate and insightful dialogue that covers the events that occurred. Very classy...I love them even more !!
I really miss all of the together! I saw the other interview with Dawn and Maxine and they spoke about how shady the management was for them but how the other two still liked the management because they are getting work. You still have to look at all the work that you put in and not mark your price tag way down. It’s good to work but as a collective you should want to listen to your other partners. So to see this interview I see where Dawn and Maxine is coming from now. Wish all of them well and hope that maybe one day they will come together!
I feel like these 2 ladies are more concerned with Dawn saying she's wrong than the root of the issue. They were being ripped off & if they would have united for a more fair contract instead of having the attitude that a check is a check and their band mate was being greedy for wanting to renegotiate and not stick with a newbie contract En Vogue would still be poppin. They chose the side of the people TAKING their money over a friend who helped them MAKE that money ... And they have the nerve to act like they would be willing to accept an apology??? Never Gonna Get It!
Cute catch phrase--- but wrong! You are looking from the outside in.... You're Speaking on 100% opinion and 0% facts. You are Accusing them of the very same thing you are doing now---- which is pushing innuendo as the truth. Would you please get out of your feelings, and lets talk grown people business for a few moments. As much as I love Dawn and Maxine ( those are my girls, and always will be), they were wrong ( speaking business sense) to file an aggrievance against Cindy and Terry based on the unprofessional faults, exploitation, lack of business skills, mismanagement of funds, shady deals, and fraudulent contracts fabricated by the producers and managers (in which they hired). Her ( mostly Dawn) discrepancies and issues at hand should have been toward their managers and producers, not your "business partners" and "money makers" who helped you climbed the ladder of success. This Smoke Screen fight, fake hurt, made up drama, and "I'm in distress act " displayed by Dawn and Maxine at times is bizarre. Each group member must take responsibility of their own lack of discretion and knowledge and learn from it. The lawsuit was based on faulty business practices. Dawn and Maxine can't throw the first punch and then sulk and pout because you got your but kicked at the end. If Dawn is broke, it's because of her own dismal business practices, ignorance and pride. Not of the fault of her former colleagues/group members. Now the truth is the truth. Dawn filed a legal court ordered aggrieviance in attempt to dismiss or stop Cindy and Terry to extract a premium for use of the En Vogue trademark, brand name. Also federal documentation was filed accusing them for cybersquatting, do you know how serious that is? Cybersquatting generally refers to when someone attempts to use a brand name or trade name of another in a domain, without any legal basis, to extract a premium from them to purchase their domain. Now wait a Kool Aid Freakin minute, if all four built the brand, business, name and wrote some of the songs (which they did and was legally documented) , then all should have the rights to use the name-- and extract a premium for their endeavors. The name En Vongue is not just for 2 ex groups members who are having cash temper tantrums-- hell they quit the group. So why should they care if Terry and Cindy write songs using the Brand name they helped built? . please! when it comes to business law, Investment Management, and or fiscal responsibility, you must refuse to take friendship/ relationships into account for the sake of the business at hand. IT"S BUSINESS! So Yes, they need to swallow their pride, apologize--- so the fans can get back to jamming to their tunes. It's not science, is wisdom 101, the way to be rebuild your brand, and have continued revenue $$$$..... simple--get back to doing what you love, this time be smarter. Good grief! You sitting over in the corner at home throwing shade and being broke, when you can simply come back to the group you help build, be ya own boss, and start cashing checks again? How silly! Help us Jesus! smh
and Cindy and Terry could have put ALL their TRUE business out there , but they didn't. The girls talked about what projects Dawn and Max are working on. Trying to be positive in spite of. It's those messy DJ Radio Chics that's throwing salt on open wounds. Pinning 2 against the other two. ugh, Messy females can't stand them!
Actually my opinion is based on what all of them have discussed in interviews.You do know these 2 had top dollar boyfriends at the time and Terry Ellis was dating one of the groups producers. You mean to tell me you think they should have stayed making pennies on dollar from their initial contract after having sold over 30 MILLION records? TFOH! You typed a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing relevant. You tried tho!
Why is the hostess so interested in seeing an "trainwreck" with the positive part, instead if seeing an positive and uplifting story? Do Black Women really want to see themselves portrayed in that light?
I agree. When you look at what Terri and Cyndi were saying, they were showing themselves in a wonderful, respectful and loving light...the other two things in the room were making themselves out to be angry black women. The SAME angry black women who say they hate other angry black women! Cyndi and Terri showed how black women should act, talk and think about other black women!
Dawn never put any negative things into the press about them, it was the other way around. And now it is all coming out and I’m glad Dawn is finally telling her side of the story
I think the hostesses are classy and bold , the hosts know that it's not right that Maxine got kicked out, that's what really happened, listen to Maxine's interview, the producer, the one Terry I think dated had a lot to do with it. But I love the hosts because not once did they down Dawn or Max, actually they trying get the group back together. No offense,but to me that's classy!!!!!! And I end by saying,Cindy & Terry congratulations on ur battle win but the war is lost. We the fans grew up on ENVOGUE, went to college thru ENVOGUE and until the original ENVOGUE comes back, the million dollar platinum sales won't come ..The war is lost. Examples Don't Let Go, the group's biggest hit 1.8 million copies sold, The lead vocalist: Dawn Robinson, My Lovin' lead vocalists Maxine Jones and Dawn Robinson, Whatta Man with Salt n Pepa lead vocals Dawn Robinson, Giving him something he can feel- Dawn Robinson. The Grammy nominated song Give it up, turn it loose,-Maxine Jones on lead entirely. Get the picture
Terry and Cindy had it good financially while in the group. For Dawn and Maxine, this was their livelihoods. Dawn spoke out and she got kicked out for standing up.
Dawn and Maxine may not have gone to bigger and better things as far as the music but I'll bet they feel more respect for themselves for standing up for themselves. Cindy and Terri are still just getting by playing it safe.
Maybe at the time. But Dawn now has a pattern of being unable to commit, compromise (you always have to at least a bit when dealing with anyone over anything), and manage her money well. She criticises Terry and Cindy’s business sense, but who stays booked and busy, earning and having a good time? Sometimes you have to play the long game and keep your priorities straight.
Artists get paid in 3 ways: shows, albums, merchandise. The 360 deal En Vogue had with Atlantic/Elektra had them making most of their money from shows. Once the album sells declined naturally, the shows. .. MUST GO ON to bring in cash-flow. To Dawn's point in one of her 9,000 interviews, she said she approached Cindy, Maxine and Terry about acquiring and releasing merch, but then the 360 Deal has Atlantic/Elektra and Tommy and Denny getting 70% of the revenue. DAWN WAS RIGHT in that they needed a newer contract from the 360 deal they signed in 1989. I would be ready to bust a cap in somebody's ass too, as Dawn told it lol.
Exactly and as for the shows, their manager contractually set them up touring with Luther Vandross and knowing how he treated Anita Baker, they were so desperate for money that they were willing to take that offer? WHILE CINDY WAS PREGNANT? Something definitely wasn’t right financially. Poor management all around, so unfortunate
I dont like that they sued Max for using the name. They built the name TOGETHER. Not just Cindy and Terry. And Terry and Cindy seem to always be making bad business decisions. Dawn wanted to make sure they got paid
Cindy and terry are just are cool with accepting pennies for their work. while Dawn and Max wanted to make sure they made money. Im team Dawn and Max. It was ridiculous that they sold all those records yet couldn't afford to buy a house.
as a male Envouge fan this is so disappointing All 4 women are still Blessed with beauty,brains and endless talent and they still can't get it together.
Seems… like she uses wisdom in decision making….. she from south park/sunny side in Houston tx…. When you come from nothing ….you learn how to overcome your obstacles instead of letting them stop you.
She did release a solo alum and then she told fans not to buy it. Dawn's other talents include signing bad contracts and blaming others for her lack of due diligence.
They are trying their best to get Cindy and Terry to say something negative about Dawn and Maxine. I love how classy Cindy and Terry are to not fall for the okie doke
The problem is I don’t think they hate each other. If business, legalities and outside forces were not in the way and if they were paid what they were worth, they would still be together, because deep down they did get along. This was from Dawn and Cindy’s words in separate interviews
Max and Dawn were saying that they thought 2 cents on the dollar for each individual ( 8 cents on the dollar for the Group) was not a fair compensation as far as mechanical royalties ( Which is the sell of physical media like CD's, albums, posters etc.) and Performance royalties ( Which is the playing of their songs on public media like radio, tv and internet whicn calculated using a mathematical agree upon Monitoring institution like ASCAP and BMI.) When the record companies and management were making the other 92% of the Gross Sales of their album.
somethings not right here... these women were so capable of banking if just getting the contract but yet these two are okay with making pennies? no mam.. dont make sense, these two were getting something more out of it. No one would sit comfortable making pennies when youre selling millions.
I love how classy and professional these ladies are, and the interviewers seem like shit to stir up drama, its obvious that they dont want drama, but to just make money and have a good time doing it, theyre chemistry is bangin, i hope they do reunite
I've heard a few interviews where both sides explain what happened. BOTH sides (Cindy/Terri V. Max/Dawn) present compelling and common sense arguments. Even in this interview, it seems like the issue was simple and everything they are saying makes sense. The thing is , both sides feel like the other is being ridiculous for doing what they did. Cindy/Terri say it is ridiculous that the others wouldn't show up for paid work because they didn't like the manager. Dawn/Max say Cindy/Terri are ridiculous for not re-negotiating better business terms(better more deserving pay,etc.) for the level of group they were at the time and were happy working for less than they were worth. Both arguments make sense. Cindy/Terri were happy with how the BUSINESS was ALWAYS done from the beginning. Max and Dawn were not happy with the BUSINESS felt like things needed to CHANGE and should be making more money. To their credit, we all know how lopsided music industry contracts can be and payouts to artists. Cindy/Terri were fine getting paid what they were used to and Max/Dawn were not.
I am team Cindy and Terry. I love Maxine and Dawn, but I didn't like how they got on twitter and bashed Cindy and Terry. Only young girls do that mess! Not grown ass women! Cindy and Terry handled this interview with class, and I will continue to support them, but I would definitely like to see the original four get back together.
is it a chick thing? -I say "no." there are a lot of guy groups that had drama & broke up: the temptations, blackstreet, backstreet boys, N sync, B2k, G-unit, the Jackson 5 etc. Gender has little to do with it. It has more to do with the fact that having different personalities together sometimes begin to clash, especially when the industry and money is involved...
yes. for me clearly women left in original en vogue have far more submissive personalities and the other half more dominant and independent personalities. each of the sides is right on their own principles and needs. so the split was inevitable.
I have watched a few interviews with Dawn Robinson. I have NEVER heard her say anything bad about Cindy or Terry. Yet Both Terry and Cindy were being shady about Dawn and Max in this interview. This sounds like Destiny's child all over again. Two of the women left the group because of issues with management, better known as Mathew Knowles.
Respect foe these two ladies.........if Dawn had not ego tripped and left the group ......they would have had multiple Grammys by now and would have cemented their place in music history as the greatest female group of all time!
I hope they all come back together bc the interviewers were right! There are so many groups that were out when they were and now they’re nowhere to be found.
Yes, I like all of the original members of EnVogue. Let's keep it real they are not the only female groups that have broken up and that goes for male singing groups. They are telling their side of the story. I still like all of them. I also enjoy Rhonda who is now and hasave been a part of EnVogue for over 10 years. Hey the Supreme, the Pointer sisters,Patti LaBelle and The Blue Bells,The Three Degrees, The Emotions and others groups went through changes and survive. The bottom line as long as they make good music I will support them these set of Envogue ladies still got that it factor for me. Just keep supporting them and love them. I like Rocket Love.
Soooooo.....for every $1mill that the music company made off of their talent, each girl rcvd only $20,000?!?! That's disgusting! I'm with Dawn & Maxine on this one. These other two are obviously not that good at math. Or, they're content to be doormats. Without this group's talent & hard work, their music company wouldn't have had squat! Vultures. Good that Dawn walked. Sad for us, but I'm glad she didn't let them continue to rob her so shamelessly.
With Terry playing hanky panky with one of the producers, she could not think of her own best interest beyond the bed. Dawn and Maxine dealt with the issue with an eye to business. Terry and Cindy failed to ever address this from a business standpoint.
sawleo sawleo Bullshit. Terrys solo album had nothing to do with her relationship at the time. Negotiations for what would have been the third En Vogue album took years to work out, plus Cindy & Maxine became mothers. Dawn also had a solo album deal. When Sylvia Rhone made the decision to put the En Vogue ahead of Dawns solo album - Dawn was upset.
You are right on, Sawleo. I understand the girls' desire to be loyal to Foster & McElroy since those two gents were the ones who created the group, wrote the songs, and crafted the sound, but on the other hand, McElroy & Foster should have demonstrated their loyalty to these four women since it was their particular talents as singers and performers, as well as their charisma, beauty and style, which brought the concept to life and created a connection with the audience and record-buying public. The way McElroy & Foster could have demonstrated that loyalty was to voluntarily back the women in a renegotiated contract in light of the massive worldwide success the group experienced with the second album. Dawn has said that each member was only making TWO CENTS on the dollar for every album or single sold going into the third album--that is obscenely low for artists who had reached their level of success. Only 8% of the pie. They clearly deserved a higher percentage, and I don't think it's a coincidence that once this issue could not be resolved between the quartet, the producer duo, and the label, the lack of a unified front damaged the prospects of success for everyone involved. They would never earn another Top Ten song on the Hot 100 and would be essentially irrelevant altogether within three years. And this is not about greed on Dawn and Maxine's part; rather, it's about a fair wage in the most basic sense of the phrase. Lastly, if it's true that Terry was having a romantic relationship with the one of the producers during this turmoil I can only imagine how that created further and substantial conflict, as her allegiances would be compromised.
And rightfully so, Dawn was thrown under the bus - TWICE. First for having her album scrapped and for trying to get ALL the girls paid their worth. Terri's album was before all this mess. Dawn was on the path to a solo album in 2001...years after Terri's solo debut. Dawn waited 6, 7 years only to be placed on the back burner again. So that makes three times thrown under the bus. She had many reasons to be pissed.
Dawn stated that Sylvia only said no to Dawn's solo album simply because Terri's had failed. Dawn said Terri's solo work had nothing to do with what she was doing so it was completely unfair. Dawn wanted to do a solo album and En Vogue but Sylvia gave her an ultimatum and Dawn did not want anyone controlling them again so she left! Sylvia made a stupid decision.
Team Dawn & Max equals Team Broke. She left in '97!!!... how does she claim ownership of building a group that she was responsible for their mainstream demise. Atleast Max has some ground for entitlement but then again she quit also. You will never be happy chasing a dollar. Kudos to Terry and Cindy as they never quit and therefore should have all rights..Two True Funky Divas..now get in the studio and make me an album!!
At the end of the day these artists were in bad contracts across the board whether it's New edition...En Vogue...Prince...He spent so much time trying to get out of his WB contract that he turned into a Symbol...Maybe they should have went to Paisley Park as 4 symbols...IJS
All these comments bashing Terri & Cindy but Dawn has had issues with everyone she’s worked with! She’s the common denominator. Even if you see past interviews when they were together they ALL talked about her immaturity. And now Max is bashing Dawn. End point: none of us know 100% so just enjoy the music!
Justin J exactly!!!! lots of opinions on here with no facts to back it up. Even seen people saying that Cindy and Terry were nothing more but back up singer! So disrespectful and rude. Some of these people act like then know these ladies and live in the same house with them.
In 1990s they were really young and dumb while singing about being strong and fierce while their producer boyfriend (Terry) was getting rich but in 2013 no reason for women to be dumb about that coin.
Cindy & Terry seems like they are sweethearts. Very classy ladies. Sad they could not make it work with Dawn and Maxine ...but it seems as though they tried.
It's such a shame how the machinations of the music industry destroys friendships. Dawn has always said that they made a wonderful combination and they were great friends. All 4 are great singers but it all started going wrong when Max, Terry and Cindy stood by silent and let their record label throw Dawn out. The dynamic changed and it was never quite the same.
I blame Terry. Of course Terry isn't angry. She was a mammy who willing to work for pennies in order to please her boyfriend manager. Terry wasn't even an original member. They allowed her to join later and she broke the group up. The interviewer didn't ask the right questions.
@@umamizaddy Ummm... Before she broke the group up, Dawn was the backbone of the group. At the end of the day, Terry likes working for cheap and she fought to keep her group members broke.
@@umamizaddy I don't need to be there bookkeeper. I listen to several interviews by Dawn and Maxine. They wanted to negotiate for more money but Terry is the one who wanted to work for pennies.
Jay West - Because this wasn't a group like the Supremes where you could basically replace anyone as long as you have Dianna Ross. En Vogue is like TLC. You could replace a member but it most likely will take away the magic from the group and the enthusiasm from the fans which is exactly what happened with both groups ultimately.
Rhona makes a better solo artist imho. That being said, the public’s ear was introduced to En Vogue as a 4 part harmony. What’s missing in EV3 pt II is that 4th high register that Dawn brought in. Therefore the blend is completely different, not like EV3 (Maxine) which they still sounded like themselves, where they had Cindy pick up the missing parts. Also Rhona and Cindy do sound a lot alike and it’s very noticeable, even when she lowers her register to replace Maxine’s vocals. It’s still to close. I hear 2 Cindys and Terry now. I am keeping hope alive that the original 4 will reunite and hopefully someone will throw all 4 a check that they can’t turn down to do so. Or rerelease EV3 with Dawns vocals 😔😢
Terry and Cindy are the most down to earth from watching the interviews. They are not responsible for the crash of this group. Imaturity of at least one lady caused it.
sadly that Cindy says, all she wanted was to work and look after her family. All other things did not matter to her, and throwing hands to display a no care attitude about any other things. But, in the same vain when money issues were raised by other group members Dawn and Maxx they never supported the matter. How was she gonna look after her family if En Vogue members were not making enough money. Unless they Terry and Cindy were in cahoots with producers and managers. They are really not coming forth with truth. I see why the other two were lost respect for them and dropped their names. They seem not to know what broke their group but, in same vain they dismiss anything thing that caused the breakaway in the group. That's where they are lying. That is not being classy but, its being disrespectful to others. Its being a liar yet to bolster your image.
I agree with you I looked up their net worth and they say that her net worth is 5 million the others are not listed the producers screwed them over just like a lot of the great singers from the 90s. I think they should get back together like Cindy said but Terry doesn't sound to forgiving it's like she was paid so there wasn't a problem and that is wrong.I still love her though I saw them perform and it was better in person this was before Maxine left.
I hate the media, they always seem to want to see black women, hell black people in general at each others necks. We don't want to see En Vogue fighting, we love them just the way they are. Now, Dawn and Maxine, get your shit together because it's not the same without y'all. Come on ladies, show these stupid people that black queens can bounce back.
I wish they all could put aside there differences and come together again there all so talented all there forces combined there so good but i know its not always that easy. Always been a fan
To say could it be a chick thing is an insult to women. It's just a business disagreement. Unfortunate yes,. But it happens all the time with music groups.
Cut the s**t ladies. It's business. The fans don't want to see half of a whole. This has gone in too long. I am turning in my membership until these ladies get it together
@@jaywest3734 Because prior to Michelle, DC was Beyoncé’s group (she and to a lesser extent Kelly) were the main focuses. Although L and L were there, their voices were never the main showcase, therefore audiences didn’t miss it when they were swapped with Michelle. EnVogue is different. They were a 4 lead group. ANY change in lineup was drastic (Original EV3 to a lesser extent)
Exactly. And technically speaking, the only REAL album they did as 3 was Masterpiece Theater (a slept-on album by the way), because some of Dawn’s vocals were still in the album EV3; they didn’t remove them completely
Props to these sistas for handling their business probably.Cindy looks damn good.That is what working out does to your body sistas.Keep you looking young.Peace!
They were making 2 cents each on the dollar. Cindy & Terry had financially stable relationships and didn't need for a roof over their heads as opposed to Maxine & Dawn ...
You really think $0.02 on the dollar is Fair? Those girls should have been taken better care of.. They went triple platinum if you have a group that goes triple platinum you've got to keep them happy it's not going to hurt to give them extra money... especially when you already got over on them anyway
Lilli Ann yea that's fucked up.. There are women out there right now that can't sing a lick... They just shake their ass... They get a the right deal.. But they screw over people with Talent... Like Mary J Blige and Rihanna....... Rihanna can't hold a candle to her vocals,,, but Mary J Blige don't shake her ass and talk about sex this sex that.... How to make it hurt more? these people in this generation would really say Rihanna's way better than her
I don't know anything about the twitter rant. I do believe you are noy getting paid what you are worth you have every right to walk. No one should get butt hurt about someone leaving if you are happy with your pay. Everyone of them should have the right to the En Vogue name since they were the original members. However, I know legally this may not be how things work. They should try to work things out and admit fault on both sides. I personally will not be watching or listening to any replacement members if the make new music.
They can kiss and makeup but times have changed! Things are not and never will be the same! I luv En Vogue! Since they share the name, they should have a “BATTLE Of EN VOGUE”!
Max and dawn didnt give up. They wanted more money than the $0.02 p/album per girl. U can't renegotiate if 2/4 members are okay with existing contracts
Well it's a damn shame that 4 fine a$$ women like them can't get along and keep the group going. Regardless though, En Vogue is the greatest group of female voices ever assembled!!
In 2011 there is absolutely no reason why these women were not able to negotiate a better contract to get more money. In 1990s you did all of that work for pennies while everyone else got rich but today "ain't nobody got time to be Toni Braxton". Max and Dawn were right to leave.
I understand what they are saying, but after hearing the other girls speak I understand even more. Cindy and Terry are partying in the welfare line but Maxine and Dawn would rather fly solo than get paid in kibbles & bits. In all truth, I am glad Cindy and Terry are keeping it together but honestly at the end of the day -- their reputation is flawed and something stinks because they were too careful to not say the truth... Oprah or Iyanla... fix them!
They won the battle but lost the war because at the end of the day, nobody wants to see part of EnVogue, they want to see all of the original members together.
Bryan Cee but thats the problem, dawn and maxine are being petty about the break up. I want the original 4 back together badly but dawn and maxine would have to be on board
ScumbagGames I would have to disagree, it’s about the bag! They have families and Dawn and Maxine want the rightful due!
And especially these two, they were nothing but backups.
Bryan Cee I could put it no BETTER cuz your right!
@@knightd12 you got to be joking they were never back up singers they were the VOICE of the group please don't ever say that about TERRY AND CINDY THEY CAN SAAAAAAANNNNG CAN YOU
as a fan -- this is so painful to hear
YES, I LOVE THEM DAMN IT...YES LET'S DO A REALITY SHOW
Nyc travis YES, IT IS.
The real issue: En Vogue never existed as a cohesive group to begin! Terry was getting ducked by Denzil Foster (major producer of En Vogue) and was enjoying the lifestyle and benefits of the producer's lifestyle (his cars, mansion, fortune, etc). Moreover, Terry got to exercise her solo options first (perk of being ducked by the producer I'm sure). Then there's Cindy who was already in a stable situation with her rich pro-baseball husband Glenn Braggs. So, financially and realistically, Terry and Cindy were all set to continue in the group. Maxine was single, got married, had a baby, then got divorced. So she is the sole earner again. No solo career. No fringe benefits from ducking the producer, etc. Enter Dawn. Same deal, no second-income-earning husband (at that time 1997) and her solo deal was trumped for the "EV4" album that became "EV3."
Okay people, these are just facts not alternative facts. These 4 women will attest to these facts because they happened.
Sylvia Rhone erred when she decided NOT to pursue Dawn's solo album contemporaneously with Terry's (or some short time thereafter).
That music recorded for Dawn's album has never been heard by the public...
Main point: Dawn and Maxine were justified in how they decided to depart; their positions and plights are separate and different from Cindy's and Terry's.
I do believe Terry holds Dawn responsible for the failure and downfall of EN Vogue in the late 1990s when she (Terry) needs to appreciate how Dawn and Maxine felt instead of, as she states above, "...that doesn't exist."
No empathy ever.
This is what I have told people for years ... it has been so many years that people forget Terry was involved with him. As you said, she was reaping those benefits and Cindy was in a stable marriage/family situation pretty much from the start. It's all about perspective.
Christian Grey what you said is sooo true! Basically, Cindy and Terry were fine with contracts they had. Dawn believed they deserved more than what they earned and that’s there principal of all of the problems
After seeing everything, what you said makes a lot of sense!!!! So sad!
MelodyMaker151 cause if you’re eating no matter what, you literally don’t have the hunger to fight.
Not the real issue. This is your opinion. Stick to the facts.
If all 4 of them ever get back together I will buy concert tickets and the CD. If they do not I will just listen to the old stuff. SAD :(frown
As a true fan I follow the group whoever is singing in there. True fans fighting over a reunion of the original which will probably never happen and support them regardless. They have good and bad on all post “Dawn” En Vogue and “Maxine” En Vogue. So why didn’t fans support Dawn when she first left? So petty...
So did you get Electric Cafe? Because, honestly, it's a good album!
Terry won't bring up her relationship with Densil Foster, one of their producers. That always causes problems. Ask TLC.
and Xscape
It's was about the money. That's why Dawn left all of the touring and nothing to show for it the management was making all the money.
See.. but they didn't write or produce! Then add the cost of clothes and hair styling of 4 women. They had to be in the negative after all that.
+Jp Reddy I agree when you don't write or produce. That's how you get screwed.
+Jp Reddy I disagree. Out of every million they make, they get (collectively) only R80,000. Before tax is deducted. Each girl would get less than $20,000. That leaves $920,000 for the music company. Hair, makeup, etc, etc, doesn't cost anywhere near that. They were being robbed blind.
True, but Britney Spears does none of that and she makes millions each year.
The girls were being underpaid and Dawn mentioned it and only Max said "I agree". Terri only cared about paying her bills and she was making enough to do that while also dating a rich producer who had enough money to give her, her very own solo album. Cyndi was married to a rich sports star. Both Terri and Cyndi were well looked after money wise, so En Vogue to them was just about getting to sing and make a few extra dollars but for Dawn and Max it was a lot of work and a lot of hours with shit pay and no husband or BF to support them like the other two had.
Terri and Cyndi felt everything was fine for them...but it was Dawn and Max who were getting screwed and Dawn basically said "We can fucking sing, and sing damn well and we're a huge success. We deserve good pay". But only Max agreed.
The management were taking all their money and not giving them the amount that other girl groups and singings were making at the time, and Dawn found that out by talking to other singers in the business and saying to all four girls "Why are we making less money than everyone else when we're selling more albums"?
It just didn't matter to T and C. But it mattered to M and D and Dawn left for that reason.
When you're a success, your management should know to pay you well, but theirs was taking their money and fucking them over!
These heaux’s got no backbone
10 yrs later since interview and the ladies are touring and generating a demand even with just half of the original members…..that’s a testament of how great all four of the women were in en vogue
💯
Great perspective.
Terry is my favorite. ❤❤
So sorry En Vogue couldn't stay together. This group was and still is one of the most gifted and awesome group of the 1990`s. What I love about En Vogue they all can sing lead. It never was about one sings lead all the and the rest do back ground. Unlike Destiny Child it was always Beyonce. These women are talented, beautiful, sexy and classy. The harmonies among them were great. I sometimes couldn't express who I love better because, they all brought it collectively together. Such a shame it had to end.
The all could sing, but Dawn had something special.
Terry had no money in 1999 and she had to sing back up for Toni Braxton on tour. She forgets to mention that. Cindy had a rich husband. Dawn was right about their money issues the group was having.
Actually, Terry did that (along with her best friend at the time Chante Moore) as a favor for Frank Gatson not because she didn't have money. Financially Terry was good because of her partner being their producer.
@@faayidah thats still unfair on dawn and maxine
It was no favor. Toni has 4 sisters that could have sang backup for her. Terry did it because she needed the money.
@@JLPerryTV RIGHTTTT!!! We not stupid
@@JLPerryTV toni sisters were tired of being doowop pop pop chick's lol. If u watched the Braxton reality show u know toni reached a point in her career where she no longer wanted her sisters to be her background singers
The other two had a problem with money. This is the tlc story again. as you notice these two dont talk about the pennies that they were paid, the other two does talk about it. They say a paycheck beats no paycheck. The other two says that they wanted to be paid what they were worth. Look at the other side of the story and you may understand the full picture.
+James Torti I agree
YES!!!
James Torti well these two were married to a football player and Teri was dating or married to one of their producers so for them not a biggie still had nice houses, cars, vacations etc. Dawn n Max did have money outside of music which they were getting 2 pennies off of each album. I’m mean they were making millions but they had to pay off designers, hair, makeup, limos, lawyers, managers etc. pretty much everything then say $200k is left divide by four $50k each which is chump change while everyone else is making 6-7 figures and living large on curtesy of EnVogue. But back then it happened to a lot of Artists TLC, Toni Braxton, *NSYNC, Easy-E and Dr.Dre and most of Death Row artists. Not so much now because artists heard all the stories so now every word is read on the contracts, hire their own lawyers and not one that’s their managers or record labels lawyer get their own accountant. They do background check look at the reviews online I mean they can do so much to secure but back in the 80s 90s to 2005 couldn’t do much plus they were young, naive and trusted the ppl around them not knowing their out there busting their asses off and the leaches are sucking them dry.
James Torti I love terry and Cindy but hell naw it’s all about the money . When terry says she’s trying to just take care of her family I need to see the checks coming in as receipts !
If Xscape can get back together with all messiness they had going on I know En Vogue can try one more time
The difference between En Vogue mess and Xscape mess is that En Vogue disagreed from a business perspective where as Xscape disagreed from a personal perspective.
Hell SWV too
@@brianellison2042 and also Xscape grew up and went to school together so they were friends first. En Vogue auditioned for this group and didn’t know each other before. Even though they had good chemistry they still didn’t know each other before they started singing together like Xscape did.
@@brianellison2042 Nope. It was business fraud and theft. LaTocha stole Tamika's money.
As a fan, I hate knowing that something so great was destroyed because of money. They were one of my favorite groups from my high school and college days. Amazingly talented and stunningly beautiful! What's so hard about wiping the slate clean and starting with new contracts where the ladies get equal shares of the money earned? That is TOO much talent to never see assembled again!!!
TRUTH!!!!!
no that lady didnt say "them other two heifers." Cindy cleaned it up nicely. And FYI whoever wants to see a cat fight or a train wreck reality TV show with En Vogue isnt a true and loyal fan.
Miss Ellis and Miss Herron are still pretty, after all these years.
Yes They Are I Love All Of Them. But Terry And Cindy Are My Two Favorites.💖💖
Mine too!!! They sounded great at the Barclay Center!!
They are but they don’t get paid their worth
Terry and Cindy had a dream to become stars and they were blessed to be stars! You expected them to walk away from their dream because Dawn and Max decided to walk away…?
Right. I don't blame they, it's like they were cheated out of so much but they still kept the legacy going.
Dawn expected them to stick together as a group to get paid their worth. Cindy purportedly was in better financial shape so the passion to fight was not the same. Also, it's been reported that Terri had something going on with the producer (and may be that's why she got to record her solo album) so perhaps that's why didn't want to fight. I wouldn't say they are "stars". Together they could've been "beyonce" status.
Right!! This is what I try to explain to people who say Terry and Cindy didnt care about the money because the men in their lives had money. Thats BS. Terry, Cindy, Dawn and Maxine HAD A DREAM. They were young, ambitious and VERY talented and they arent going to drop their hopes and dreams for a man.
It's nice to see that these ladies are keeping it classy and not being rude about the whole situation.
This is how LADIES conduct themselves during an interview discussing a disagreement involving other women. No name calling, no cursing, no shade throwing...just an articulate and insightful dialogue that covers the events that occurred. Very classy...I love them even more !!
It's the LOVE of money, that's the root of all evil
I really miss all of the together! I saw the other interview with Dawn and Maxine and they spoke about how shady the management was for them but how the other two still liked the management because they are getting work. You still have to look at all the work that you put in and not mark your price tag way down. It’s good to work but as a collective you should want to listen to your other partners. So to see this interview I see where Dawn and Maxine is coming from now. Wish all of them well and hope that maybe one day they will come together!
I feel like these 2 ladies are more concerned with Dawn saying she's wrong than the root of the issue. They were being ripped off & if they would have united for a more fair contract instead of having the attitude that a check is a check and their band mate was being greedy for wanting to renegotiate and not stick with a newbie contract En Vogue would still be poppin. They chose the side of the people TAKING their money over a friend who helped them MAKE that money ... And they have the nerve to act like they would be willing to accept an apology??? Never Gonna Get It!
Yep, agreed!
Cute catch phrase--- but wrong! You are looking from the outside in.... You're Speaking on 100% opinion and 0% facts. You are Accusing them of the very same thing you are doing now---- which is pushing innuendo as the truth. Would you please get out of your feelings, and lets talk grown people business for a few moments. As much as I love Dawn and Maxine ( those are my girls, and always will be), they were wrong ( speaking business sense) to file an aggrievance against Cindy and Terry based on the unprofessional faults, exploitation, lack of business skills, mismanagement of funds, shady deals, and fraudulent contracts fabricated by the producers and managers (in which they hired). Her ( mostly Dawn) discrepancies and issues at hand should have been toward their managers and producers, not your "business partners" and "money makers" who helped you climbed the ladder of success. This Smoke Screen fight, fake hurt, made up drama, and "I'm in distress act " displayed by Dawn and Maxine at times is bizarre. Each group member must take responsibility of their own lack of discretion and knowledge and learn from it. The lawsuit was based on faulty business practices. Dawn and Maxine can't throw the first punch and then sulk and pout because you got your but kicked at the end. If Dawn is broke, it's because of her own dismal business practices, ignorance and pride. Not of the fault of her former colleagues/group members. Now the truth is the truth. Dawn filed a legal court ordered aggrieviance in attempt to dismiss or stop Cindy and Terry to extract a premium for use of the En Vogue trademark, brand name. Also federal documentation was filed accusing them for cybersquatting, do you know how serious that is? Cybersquatting generally refers to when someone attempts to use a brand name or trade name of another in a domain, without any legal basis, to extract a premium from them to purchase their domain. Now wait a Kool Aid Freakin minute, if all four built the brand, business, name and wrote some of the songs (which they did and was legally documented) , then all should have the rights to use the name-- and extract a premium for their endeavors. The name En Vongue is not just for 2 ex groups members who are having cash temper tantrums-- hell they quit the group. So why should they care if Terry and Cindy write songs using the Brand name they helped built? . please! when it comes to business law, Investment Management, and or fiscal responsibility, you must refuse to take friendship/ relationships into account for the sake of the business at hand. IT"S BUSINESS! So Yes, they need to swallow their pride, apologize--- so the fans can get back to jamming to their tunes. It's not science, is wisdom 101, the way to be rebuild your brand, and have continued revenue $$$$..... simple--get back to doing what you love, this time be smarter. Good grief! You sitting over in the corner at home throwing shade and being broke, when you can simply come back to the group you help build, be ya own boss, and start cashing checks again? How silly! Help us Jesus! smh
and Cindy and Terry could have put ALL their TRUE business out there , but they didn't. The girls talked about what projects Dawn and Max are working on. Trying to be positive in spite of. It's those messy DJ Radio Chics that's throwing salt on open wounds. Pinning 2 against the other two. ugh, Messy females can't stand them!
Actually my opinion is based on what all of them have discussed in interviews.You do know these 2 had top dollar boyfriends at the time and Terry Ellis was dating one of the groups producers. You mean to tell me you think they should have stayed making pennies on dollar from their initial contract after having sold over 30 MILLION records? TFOH! You typed a whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing relevant. You tried tho!
Lilli Ann Say it sister! You hit it On the Mark!!!!
Theres always two sides of every story. A reality show is too low brow for EnVogue.
Agreed
I agree!
There are never 2 sides to any story.
Why is the hostess so interested in seeing an "trainwreck" with the positive part, instead if seeing an positive and uplifting story? Do Black Women really want to see themselves portrayed in that light?
You said it! Hugs to you
I agree. When you look at what Terri and Cyndi were saying, they were showing themselves in a wonderful, respectful and loving light...the other two things in the room were making themselves out to be angry black women. The SAME angry black women who say they hate other angry black women!
Cyndi and Terri showed how black women should act, talk and think about other black women!
These radio hosts are ghetto and an embarrassment. Terry and Cindy are so eloquent, and then here come these loud-ass Sharkeisha's.
The hostess is Loni: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loni_Love
@@wcwn3632 Loni is the second hostess. She wasn't the one who asked the question about the possibility of a reality show.
Dawn never put any negative things into the press about them, it was the other way around. And now it is all coming out and I’m glad Dawn is finally telling her side of the story
TRUTH
Liar.
@@Housee01 False.
Damn Native Where is the lie?
@@JLPerryTV Native is on team #TerryCindy
Cindy and Terry are so classy, unlike the radio hostesses.
Ikr
I agree! Damn! The girls interviewing them are so damn messy!!!!!
You ain’t lying. This host is nasty
I think the hostesses are classy and bold , the hosts know that it's not right that Maxine got kicked out, that's what really happened, listen to Maxine's interview, the producer, the one Terry I think dated had a lot to do with it. But I love the hosts because not once did they down Dawn or Max, actually they trying get the group back together. No offense,but to me that's classy!!!!!! And I end by saying,Cindy & Terry congratulations on ur battle win but the war is lost. We the fans grew up on ENVOGUE, went to college thru ENVOGUE and until the original ENVOGUE comes back, the million dollar platinum sales won't come ..The war is lost. Examples Don't Let Go, the group's biggest hit 1.8 million copies sold, The lead vocalist: Dawn Robinson, My Lovin' lead vocalists Maxine Jones and Dawn Robinson, Whatta Man with Salt n Pepa lead vocals Dawn Robinson, Giving him something he can feel- Dawn Robinson. The Grammy nominated song Give it up, turn it loose,-Maxine Jones on lead entirely. Get the picture
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loni_Love
Terry and Cindy had it good financially while in the group. For Dawn and Maxine, this was their livelihoods. Dawn spoke out and she got kicked out for standing up.
Dawn quit because she couldn't wait 2 years. She had a 'promising' solo career that culminated in an album that sold 12 copies? 🙄
According to Dawn, Terry was struggling.
@@stacyr4768 Terry was struggling financially?
@@deborahyisrael5258 Yes , they only received .02 cents per album and they all stayed is low class apartments. According to Dawn .
Dawn and Maxine may not have gone to bigger and better things as far as the music but I'll bet they feel more respect for themselves for standing up for themselves. Cindy and Terri are still just getting by playing it safe.
Exactly. and I know Dawn mentions that the "whole thing crashed/burned" when she left.
Terry Ellis & Cindy Herron Braggs they win.
Yes Unsung need to do a whole hour on En Vogue. God forgives why can't they.
Dawn was right that they deserved more than $0.02 an album per person. She was right to not want to sign that contract again for another 2 years
Maybe at the time. But Dawn now has a pattern of being unable to commit, compromise (you always have to at least a bit when dealing with anyone over anything), and manage her money well. She criticises Terry and Cindy’s business sense, but who stays booked and busy, earning and having a good time? Sometimes you have to play the long game and keep your priorities straight.
Artists get paid in 3 ways: shows, albums, merchandise. The 360 deal En Vogue had with Atlantic/Elektra had them making most of their money from shows. Once the album sells declined naturally, the shows. .. MUST GO ON to bring in cash-flow. To Dawn's point in one of her 9,000 interviews, she said she approached Cindy, Maxine and Terry about acquiring and releasing merch, but then the 360 Deal has Atlantic/Elektra and Tommy and Denny getting 70% of the revenue. DAWN WAS RIGHT in that they needed a newer contract from the 360 deal they signed in 1989. I would be ready to bust a cap in somebody's ass too, as Dawn told it lol.
Exactly and as for the shows, their manager contractually set them up touring with Luther Vandross and knowing how he treated Anita Baker, they were so desperate for money that they were willing to take that offer? WHILE CINDY WAS PREGNANT? Something definitely wasn’t right financially. Poor management all around, so unfortunate
I dont like that they sued Max for using the name. They built the name TOGETHER. Not just Cindy and Terry. And Terry and Cindy seem to always be making bad business decisions. Dawn wanted to make sure they got paid
Right they all should be able to use the name
🗣🎙🎼Together We Stand, Divided We Fall ~ legendary Winans ‘90s
Cindy and terry are just are cool with accepting pennies for their work. while Dawn and Max wanted to make sure they made money. Im team Dawn and Max. It was ridiculous that they sold all those records yet couldn't afford to buy a house.
as a male Envouge fan this is so disappointing All 4 women are still Blessed with beauty,brains and endless talent and they still can't get it together.
The women conducting this interview are so ratchet. Anything to get the rating
The ladies in the group were very professional and optimistic though😍
Terry just seems like she'll sell out for the money. In pervious interviews that's her bottom line 🤣🤣🤣
I've always believed Terry was the real problem; especially because she was dating one of the producers at the time.
@@showingoutwithzen2530 Can you speak to the impact that had on the group, or do you go around repeating things you know nothing about?
Seems… like she uses wisdom in decision making….. she from south park/sunny side in Houston tx…. When you come from nothing ….you learn how to overcome your obstacles instead of letting them stop you.
Cindy and Terry look so young. It is sad that the group slit again. Maxine made a terrible mistake.
People,forget they were put together. Shit! Cindy was singing corny ass show tunes on cruise ships. She wasn’t STREET.
Dawn Robinson didnt make it in Lucy Pearl EITHER and she NEVER did a solo album it must be her??
She did release a solo alum and then she told fans not to buy it. Dawn's other talents include signing bad contracts and blaming others for her lack of due diligence.
They are trying their best to get Cindy and Terry to say something negative about Dawn and Maxine. I love how classy Cindy and Terry are to not fall for the okie doke
Mannnn!!!! This is painful, but these 2 are class acts! The other two say it was the fact that they All were not paid their worth!
This saga is an Unsung episode.... 2 hours long
2 hours? 2 days and a mini series. Good Lord these women hate each other!
The problem is I don’t think they hate each other. If business, legalities and outside forces were not in the way and if they were paid what they were worth, they would still be together, because deep down they did get along. This was from Dawn and Cindy’s words in separate interviews
They'll wait until one of them is no longer here to try to find their way back together.
RIGHT!!!! smdh
That sounds like Loni Love in the back ground
Max and Dawn were saying that they thought 2 cents on the dollar for each individual ( 8 cents on the dollar for the Group) was not a fair compensation as far as mechanical royalties ( Which is the sell of physical media like CD's, albums, posters etc.) and Performance royalties ( Which is the playing of their songs on public media like radio, tv and internet whicn calculated using a mathematical agree upon Monitoring institution like ASCAP and BMI.) When the record companies and management were making the other 92% of the Gross Sales of their album.
somethings not right here... these women were so capable of banking if just getting the contract but yet these two are okay with making pennies? no mam.. dont make sense, these two were getting something more out of it. No one would sit comfortable making pennies when youre selling millions.
They have so much class. I miss these entertainers that are about art, class, and sincerity.
Cindy and Terry are giving us the beauty pageant response. Max and Dawn are more genuine with their interviews.
Like when Max called Dawn "looney." 🤣
Or when Dawn alleged Max stole from her after a show? Dawn said Maxine took the paycheck and ran? 🤣
@@damnnative3188 Right!!!
@@damnnative3188 omg
And I hate to say it, but where has that gotten dawn and maxine
I love how classy and professional these ladies are, and the interviewers seem like shit to stir up drama, its obvious that they dont want drama, but to just make money and have a good time doing it, theyre chemistry is bangin, i hope they do reunite
EnVogue is very classy I miss them
in m..Hola
So Luxx these two have always been close.
The interviewers are some messy ass heifers!
I disagree the interviewers did their job, trying get the family back together ,how is that shit starters. Cudos to Mocha Cafe and Loni Love
I've heard a few interviews where both sides explain what happened. BOTH sides (Cindy/Terri V. Max/Dawn) present compelling and common sense arguments. Even in this interview, it seems like the issue was simple and everything they are saying makes sense. The thing is , both sides feel like the other is being ridiculous for doing what they did. Cindy/Terri say it is ridiculous that the others wouldn't show up for paid work because they didn't like the manager. Dawn/Max say Cindy/Terri are ridiculous for not re-negotiating better business terms(better more deserving pay,etc.) for the level of group they were at the time and were happy working for less than they were worth. Both arguments make sense. Cindy/Terri were happy with how the BUSINESS was ALWAYS done from the beginning. Max and Dawn were not happy with the BUSINESS felt like things needed to CHANGE and should be making more money. To their credit, we all know how lopsided music industry contracts can be and payouts to artists. Cindy/Terri were fine getting paid what they were used to and Max/Dawn were not.
I am team Cindy and Terry. I love Maxine and Dawn, but I didn't like how they got on twitter and bashed Cindy and Terry. Only young girls do that mess! Not grown ass women! Cindy and Terry handled this interview with class, and I will continue to support them, but I would definitely like to see the original four get back together.
That's the bottom line for me
is it a chick thing? -I say "no." there are a lot of guy groups that had drama & broke up: the temptations, blackstreet, backstreet boys, N sync, B2k, G-unit, the Jackson 5 etc. Gender has little to do with it. It has more to do with the fact that having different personalities together sometimes begin to clash, especially when the industry and money is involved...
yes. for me clearly women left in original en vogue have far more submissive personalities and the other half more dominant and independent personalities. each of the sides is right on their own principles and needs. so the split was inevitable.
ILoveME #NoTime4FairyTalez back street boys don't have problem
BSB haven’t broken up
I have watched a few interviews with Dawn Robinson. I have NEVER heard her say anything bad about Cindy or Terry. Yet Both Terry and Cindy were being shady about Dawn and Max in this interview. This sounds like Destiny's child all over again. Two of the women left the group because of issues with management, better known as Mathew Knowles.
Just because you haven’t seen it - doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
I saw it as well as other fans.
@@damnnative3188You're obsessed and hardly objective in any respect. All bark and no bite.
@@nwezetx1
I’m still correct.
Respect foe these two ladies.........if Dawn had not ego tripped and left the group ......they would have had multiple Grammys by now and would have cemented their place in music history as the greatest female group of all time!
I do agree
En Vogue were such LADIES! A true CLASS ACT! No to reality shows. Yes to them working out problems. Tour!
All things aside, after watching both interviews all the ladies are still a class act and seem like good decent people!
I'm missing you all together as a group...The 4 Funky Divas!!!!
Why can't women push the bullshit aside and get money? smh
I hope they all come back together bc the interviewers were right! There are so many groups that were out when they were and now they’re nowhere to be found.
Correct
I'm glad I did get the chance to see all four of them in concert together in Atlanta, with Silk, Tony Toni Tone, it was a great show!!!
Yes, I like all of the original members of EnVogue. Let's keep it real they are not the only female groups that have broken up and that goes for male singing groups. They are telling their side of the story. I still like all of them. I also enjoy Rhonda who is now and hasave been a part of EnVogue for over 10 years. Hey the Supreme, the Pointer sisters,Patti LaBelle and The Blue Bells,The Three Degrees, The Emotions and others groups went through changes and survive. The bottom line as long as they make good music I will support them these set of Envogue ladies still got that it factor for me. Just keep supporting them and love them. I like Rocket Love.
Rhona*
Soooooo.....for every $1mill that the music company made off of their talent, each girl rcvd only $20,000?!?! That's disgusting! I'm with Dawn & Maxine on this one. These other two are obviously not that good at math. Or, they're content to be doormats. Without this group's talent & hard work, their music company wouldn't have had squat! Vultures. Good that Dawn walked. Sad for us, but I'm glad she didn't let them continue to rob her so shamelessly.
With Terry playing hanky panky with one of the producers, she could not think of her own best interest beyond the bed. Dawn and Maxine dealt with the issue with an eye to business. Terry and Cindy failed to ever address this from a business standpoint.
sawleo sawleo Bullshit. Terrys solo album had nothing to do with her relationship at the time. Negotiations for what would have been the third En Vogue album took years to work out, plus Cindy & Maxine became mothers. Dawn also had a solo album deal. When Sylvia Rhone made the decision to put the En Vogue ahead of Dawns solo album - Dawn was upset.
You are right on, Sawleo. I understand the girls' desire to be loyal to Foster & McElroy since those two gents were the ones who created the group, wrote the songs, and crafted the sound, but on the other hand, McElroy & Foster should have demonstrated their loyalty to these four women since it was their particular talents as singers and performers, as well as their charisma, beauty and style, which brought the concept to life and created a connection with the audience and record-buying public. The way McElroy & Foster could have demonstrated that loyalty was to voluntarily back the women in a renegotiated contract in light of the massive worldwide success the group experienced with the second album.
Dawn has said that each member was only making TWO CENTS on the dollar for every album or single sold going into the third album--that is obscenely low for artists who had reached their level of success. Only 8% of the pie. They clearly deserved a higher percentage, and I don't think it's a coincidence that once this issue could not be resolved between the quartet, the producer duo, and the label, the lack of a unified front damaged the prospects of success for everyone involved. They would never earn another Top Ten song on the Hot 100 and would be essentially irrelevant altogether within three years. And this is not about greed on Dawn and Maxine's part; rather, it's about a fair wage in the most basic sense of the phrase.
Lastly, if it's true that Terry was having a romantic relationship with the one of the producers during this turmoil I can only imagine how that created further and substantial conflict, as her allegiances would be compromised.
And rightfully so, Dawn was thrown under the bus - TWICE. First for having her album scrapped and for trying to get ALL the girls paid their worth. Terri's album was before all this mess. Dawn was on the path to a solo album in 2001...years after Terri's solo debut. Dawn waited 6, 7 years only to be placed on the back burner again. So that makes three times thrown under the bus. She had many reasons to be pissed.
Dawn stated that Sylvia only said no to Dawn's solo album simply because Terri's had failed.
Dawn said Terri's solo work had nothing to do with what she was doing so it was completely unfair. Dawn wanted to do a solo album and En Vogue but Sylvia gave her an ultimatum and Dawn did not want anyone controlling them again so she left!
Sylvia made a stupid decision.
Is Loni Love one of the interviewers?, because that sure sounds like her voice
These radio hosts are trippin they act like they know french aria 😂😂
Messy asses!
:'-( I just wanna see En Vogue (Cindy, Terry, Maxine & Dawn) get back together! Come on grown women, get it together!!
Team Dawn & Max equals Team Broke. She left in '97!!!... how does she claim ownership of building a group that she was responsible for their mainstream demise. Atleast Max has some ground for entitlement but then again she quit also. You will never be happy chasing a dollar. Kudos to Terry and Cindy as they never quit and therefore should have all rights..Two True Funky Divas..now get in the studio and make me an album!!
At the end of the day these artists were in bad contracts across the board whether it's New edition...En Vogue...Prince...He spent so much time trying to get out of his WB contract that he turned into a Symbol...Maybe they should have went to Paisley Park as 4 symbols...IJS
All these comments bashing Terri & Cindy but Dawn has had issues with everyone she’s worked with! She’s the common denominator. Even if you see past interviews when they were together they ALL talked about her immaturity. And now Max is bashing Dawn. End point: none of us know 100% so just enjoy the music!
Justin J exactly!!!! lots of opinions on here with no facts to back it up. Even seen people saying that Cindy and Terry were nothing more but back up singer! So disrespectful and rude. Some of these people act like then know these ladies and live in the same house with them.
In 1990s they were really young and dumb while singing about being strong and fierce while their producer boyfriend (Terry) was getting rich but in 2013 no reason for women to be dumb about that coin.
DAMN EN VOGUE I DON'T WANT TO SEE YALL SEPERATE...I NEED YALL ALL TOGETHER...I MEAN RIGHT NOW DAMN IT...
This is heartbreaking...
Cindy & Terry seems like they are sweethearts. Very classy ladies. Sad they could not make it work with Dawn and Maxine ...but it seems as though they tried.
It's such a shame how the machinations of the music industry destroys friendships. Dawn has always said that they made a wonderful combination and they were great friends. All 4 are great singers but it all started going wrong when Max, Terry and Cindy stood by silent and let their record label throw Dawn out. The dynamic changed and it was never quite the same.
That is Dawn’s side of the story that you’re repeating.
@@BloodyMaori And Max's too!
I could only support 4 members. I cannot buy anything from 3 or 2 girls. it's not the same.
I blame Terry. Of course Terry isn't angry. She was a mammy who willing to work for pennies in order to please her boyfriend manager. Terry wasn't even an original member. They allowed her to join later and she broke the group up. The interviewer didn't ask the right questions.
Terry is the backbone of the group and she's earned her mark. Without her, the group would be nothing but a memory.
@@umamizaddy Ummm... Before she broke the group up, Dawn was the backbone of the group. At the end of the day, Terry likes working for cheap and she fought to keep her group members broke.
@@The_Black_Anarchist was u their bookeeper? Dont act like u manage they finances when u have zero clue.
@@umamizaddy I don't need to be there bookkeeper. I listen to several interviews by Dawn and Maxine. They wanted to negotiate for more money but Terry is the one who wanted to work for pennies.
@@The_Black_Anarchist spare me ur selective hearing and hating terry. Whos making money and whos earning pennies today?
Why can't the public accept the "new" member, Rhona Bennett? She's been in the group since like 2003.
Jay West - Because this wasn't a group like the Supremes where you could basically replace anyone as long as you have Dianna Ross. En Vogue is like TLC. You could replace a member but it most likely will take away the magic from the group and the enthusiasm from the fans which is exactly what happened with both groups ultimately.
EXACTLY . While Rhona is indeed talented..it is NOT the same...AT ALL
Rhona makes a better solo artist imho.
That being said, the public’s ear was introduced to En Vogue as a 4 part harmony. What’s missing in EV3 pt II is that 4th high register that Dawn brought in. Therefore the blend is completely different, not like EV3 (Maxine) which they still sounded like themselves, where they had Cindy pick up the missing parts. Also Rhona and Cindy do sound a lot alike and it’s very noticeable, even when she lowers her register to replace Maxine’s vocals. It’s still to close. I hear 2 Cindys and Terry now.
I am keeping hope alive that the original 4 will reunite and hopefully someone will throw all 4 a check that they can’t turn down to do so.
Or rerelease EV3 with Dawns vocals 😔😢
Terry and Cindy are the most down to earth from watching the interviews. They are not responsible for the crash of this group. Imaturity of at least one lady caused it.
sadly that Cindy says, all she wanted was to work and look after her family. All other things did not matter to her, and throwing hands to display a no care attitude about any other things. But, in the same vain when money issues were raised by other group members Dawn and Maxx they never supported the matter. How was she gonna look after her family if En Vogue members were not making enough money. Unless they Terry and Cindy were in cahoots with producers and managers. They are really not coming forth with truth. I see why the other two were lost respect for them and dropped their names. They seem not to know what broke their group but, in same vain they dismiss anything thing that caused the breakaway in the group. That's where they are lying. That is not being classy but, its being disrespectful to others. Its being a liar yet to bolster your image.
I agree with you I looked up their net worth and they say that her net worth is 5 million the others are not listed the producers screwed them over just like a lot of the great singers from the 90s. I think they should get back together like Cindy said but Terry doesn't sound to forgiving it's like she was paid so there wasn't a problem and that is wrong.I still love her though I saw them perform and it was better in person this was before Maxine left.
I hate the media, they always seem to want to see black women, hell black people in general at each others necks. We don't want to see En Vogue fighting, we love them just the way they are. Now, Dawn and Maxine, get your shit together because it's not the same without y'all. Come on ladies, show these stupid people that black queens can bounce back.
I wish they all could put aside there differences and come together again there all so talented all there forces combined there so good but i know its not always that easy. Always been a fan
To say could it be a chick thing is an insult to women. It's just a business disagreement. Unfortunate yes,. But it happens all the time with music groups.
Cut the s**t ladies. It's business. The fans don't want to see half of a whole. This has gone in too long. I am turning in my membership until these ladies get it together
vc wilson Rhona's been a member since 2003 though so I don't get why people can't accept her. Everyone accepted Michelle Williams in DC3.
+Jay West I don't think it's a lack of accepting her, it's more a matter of preferring the most iconic lineup.
@@jaywest3734 Because prior to Michelle, DC was Beyoncé’s group (she and to a lesser extent Kelly) were the main focuses. Although L and L were there, their voices were never the main showcase, therefore audiences didn’t miss it when they were swapped with Michelle. EnVogue is different. They were a 4 lead group. ANY change in lineup was drastic (Original EV3 to a lesser extent)
@@victoriabolton2042 I think Beyonce became more of the focus once Letoya and Latavia left, even if they didn't sing lead.
Exactly. And technically speaking, the only REAL album they did as 3 was Masterpiece Theater (a slept-on album by the way), because some of Dawn’s vocals were still in the album EV3; they didn’t remove them completely
The interviewer sounds like Loni Love! 😍
Props to these sistas for handling their business probably.Cindy looks damn good.That is what working out does to your body sistas.Keep you looking young.Peace!
Dawn and Maxine had a problem with the money....... not Terry and Cindy.....
Yap! It looks like they wanted to grow as a group too and the other party was happy 'as is'! That seems to have been the major issue.
They were making 2 cents each on the dollar. Cindy & Terry had financially stable relationships and didn't need for a roof over their heads as opposed to Maxine & Dawn ...
You really think $0.02 on the dollar is Fair? Those girls should have been taken better care of.. They went triple platinum if you have a group that goes triple platinum you've got to keep them happy it's not going to hurt to give them extra money... especially when you already got over on them anyway
+millbill killbill Hell no. That was my point, it was a slaves wage and those 2 not wanting to renegotiate are the reason they split
Lilli Ann yea that's fucked up.. There are women out there right now that can't sing a lick... They just shake their ass... They get a the right deal.. But they screw over people with Talent... Like Mary J Blige and Rihanna....... Rihanna can't hold a candle to her vocals,,, but Mary J Blige don't shake her ass and talk about sex this sex that.... How to make it hurt more? these people in this generation would really say Rihanna's way better than her
The other members don't deserve the En Vogue name, especially Dawn. She left the group in the 90s. Dawn is so childish.
She has mental health issues that are beyond fixing (outside of herself).
The interviewer is petty. She startin unnecessary mess...
Nothing good lasts forever, so they say....but DAMMIT! BREAK THE CYCLE!
I don't know anything about the twitter rant. I do believe you are noy getting paid what you are worth you have every right to walk. No one should get butt hurt about someone leaving if you are happy with your pay. Everyone of them should have the right to the En Vogue name since they were the original members. However, I know legally this may not be how things work. They should try to work things out and admit fault on both sides. I personally will not be watching or listening to any replacement members if the make new music.
Is that Long Love's voice
They can kiss and makeup but times have changed! Things are not and never will be the same! I luv En Vogue! Since they share the name, they should have a “BATTLE Of EN VOGUE”!
I LOVE THEM ALL...THIS IS SO SAD!!!
i just wish terry and cindy would’ve said something at the time and i wish dawn and max hadn’t given up :(
Max and dawn didnt give up. They wanted more money than the $0.02 p/album per girl. U can't renegotiate if 2/4 members are okay with existing contracts
@@Housee01 oh i know
What you are saying is the bottom line as well as giving the complaints of all four members the benefit of the doubt.
Well it's a damn shame that 4 fine a$$ women like them can't get along and keep the group going. Regardless though, En Vogue is the greatest group of female voices ever assembled!!
In 2011 there is absolutely no reason why these women were not able to negotiate a better contract to get more money. In 1990s you did all of that work for pennies while everyone else got rich but today "ain't nobody got time to be Toni Braxton". Max and Dawn were right to leave.
I understand what they are saying, but after hearing the other girls speak I understand even more. Cindy and Terry are partying in the welfare line but Maxine and Dawn would rather fly solo than get paid in kibbles & bits. In all truth, I am glad Cindy and Terry are keeping it together but honestly at the end of the day -- their reputation is flawed and something stinks because they were too careful to not say the truth... Oprah or Iyanla... fix them!
Is that LONI LOVE as the host?
I hope they can get together again
Right on! It's like Paul & Ringo touring as The Beatles.
The record companies ripped them off, as did the writers of most of their songs.
It is interesting that these women never had successful solo careers.
We the public are partially to blame for this. But the MANAGEMENT, PR AND RECORD COMPANIES are mostly to blame for this as well