@@project.jericho what they are saying is it is easier for toxic male dads to have a Trans daughter than a gay son... We are seeing gay kids being told they are Trans because hetro society prefers their own norms...I you are a boy and you like boys than you must be Trans, or a girl that likes other girls - you must be a boy ...there really is a great deal of gay children being told they are Trans instead of gay because it fits their hetro ideology
@@c.a.greene8395 This has nothing to do with the preference of traditional heterosexual people. You totally misunderstand the history of the trans movement. This has been percolating for over 30 years.
@@dilvishpa5776 I actually run a charity, we do peer to peer counseling ( as well as many other community projects) Of the teenagers that I have known since the age of 4- (who come for art classes, knitting classes, sewing classes,) more than 60% of them are gay, but guess what? They are also Trans...because it's easier for herto dads to accept a Trans daughter than a gay son...the girls in my classes are dealing with the advances of adult men...predatory behavior due to the changes in their teenage bodies...it's hard enough dealing with the attentions of immature teenage boys, but the adult male harassment is off the charts!! These girls are "opting out" - taking themselves OFF the prey list...they don't want to be boys, they just want to be left alone and return to the days before they grew tits and hips... I grew up around tens of dozens of transvestites, homosexuals, and Trans male to female persons in the 70's and 80's...my mom was a fag hag! If anyone 'understands' this perversion, I do - trust me, I seen it all...
@@c.a.greene8395 I believe you are suffering from sampling bias. Your view is akin to someone concluding all young girls are promiscuous by interviewing girls exiting a birth control clinic.
Thank you. I’m now convinced to check out her book. I’m a very frustrated gay male. TERG? The inherent misogyny and homophobia of the Gender Nazis makes me very angry. There are many ways I have tried to explain how we are still very much a mammalian species of animal. I really appreciated when Helen referred to our mammalian gender binary. Thanks.
@@renzinthewoods given this is an infomercial for her book it is not surprising you want a copy. just pointing at animals and saying 'see, no trans dogs so no trans humans' is pointless because humans are not other animals. other mammals sometimes eat their own children or engage in gang r*pe. so these things are natural therefore acceptable for humans to do? all species will have behaviour or characteristics that are unique to that species. it doesnt make it unnatural that quality is rare or even unique. it only makes it less common.
@@ginaritchie451 Quite a good argument but isn't that also an argument to support that this trans fetish thing is unnatural? For most, if not all of the males identified as trans, it's a fetish and many are convicted s*x offenders. You only have look on social media to see that's obvious. I think the point is we have gay animals but no trans animals or with other fetishes. Animals don't wear clothes and make up or can't perform surgery because these are unnatural. Humans do things unique murder, but does that make it right? Nope. Women & young girls need safety in the locker rooms, showers, dorms, wards, cells and everytime you argue for a male to be in them, you are complicit in the violation of their boundaries and any s*x offences committed against them.
I'm now reading the last chapter of Helen's book "Trans" and highly recommend the book to anyone trying to get up to speed on this matter. Her work is excellent and very important. Here in the U.S. perhaps the greatest irony in all this is that so called Third Wave Feminism has in "real world" matters simply morphed into what could be quite accurately described as a - "men's rights" movement.
Nope, third wave feminism is not remotely a men's rights movement. It champions feminism and pushes men down. It demoralises men with the only escape route being to become 'female' and champion females/'females' over males. It's bizarre that you don't see that.
@@OrwellsHousecat From my perspective a "feminism" that is more concerned about the "rights" of biological men "who identify" as women - while ignoring the rights of actual real life "biological women" negatively impacted by those biological men - is in fact a "men's rights movement." Women's rights (as in "biological women") are apparently completely irrelevant to many Third Wave Feminists who seem preoccupied with the rights of so called "trans women" - who are predominately biological males complete with a penis, gonads, and often a beard. "It's bizarre that you don't see that." : /
@@garyweglarz I do see that, but that is definitely not men's rights, that's trains rights ('wmn' who were men but are now something entirely different) because it only applies to trains not to the class of 'men'. Bizarre that you choose to ignore that.
@@OrwellsHousecat How is a biological male with a penis, gonads and a beard best described - in your words - ('wmn' who were men but are now something entirely different')? 80% of biological men who "identify as women" never transition - so how are they NOT biological men? Just wondering.
@@garyweglarz how can you classify men and trains as the same when Feminism, feminists organisations, feminist theory, and most wmn classify them as different? Men don't think they're wmn. It's a third classification at the very least.
Helen Joyce is devastatingly good in her sane, grounded and unapologetic realism. When this fight IS finally won, it will be because politicians finally understand that there is no reasonable rebuttal to her arguments - and that 85% of everyday people are utterly behind her.
Yeah it does. Makes me think of teachers or dinner ladies I had when I was at school for some reason. Not sure if any of them did sound like her but that’s what her voice brings to mind for me.
I was a bit meh! about clicking this vid but this lady is so fascinating and animated. If she had her own channel I'd subscribe immediately. For someone who had gender dysphoria most of my life and felt not normal, I realize now that my ailment was caused by my boundaries being constantly crossed by my mother, my peers and society. The kids don't need gender reassignment, they need to be taught how to protect and honour their boundaries, respect for each others boundaries and clear communication and stand for equal rights including bodily autonomy.
For God's sake, would you consider that your personal experience doesn't mean you're qualified to direct other people's treatment? THIS is what I see right and left in these gender-critical safe spaces. It goes from a theoretical model that at least is based on data to complete hypothetical guesswork!
If you want to protect women's sex based rights for safety & dignity, want to protect safeguarding for children and vulnerable people, want to protect the rights of LGB, want to stop the irreversible mutilation of children, then stop being silent out of fear. Have courage!
As astute as Joyce is, she never seems to drill down far enough on why young people have embraced this craziness. To my mind it comes down to the sheer boredom of growing up in the U.S. since the 1980s. I just rewatched “The Sandlot” today with a group of kids, and I found myself wondering how they could make sense of the kind of freedom kids used to have. We have abolished childhood adventure. We treat kids like they’re hopelessly stupid but they’re not, so they’re bored out of their minds. Of course they’re going to grab onto fads that are eccentric and still transgressive enough to engage the need teenagers will always have for pushing boundaries and practicing contrarianism. These are good things, and as old as the human race, but we now raise children in a sterile, deathly dull bubble, with no hope of escape until age 18, by which time they will have to learn to not raise their hands when they want to speak. Helicopter parenting and childcare and 13 years of obedience training in school gave us the trans craze. Seems to me that if young people want to upset and confound us boomers, we had it coming for what we did to childhood. It’s unforgivable.
Young people aren't embracing this, they're being spoon-fed this from the classroom. It's just another way of stimulating the economy like gay rights, marriage and civil partnerships did a decade ago. Young people are going through the biggest transition of their lives from childhood to adulthood which is traumatic and confusing enough, adapting to surge of hormones, increasing responsibilities and change in social heirarchy.
She is very clear that there are a number of drivers of this, no one thing but a perfect storm. And she has plenty of evidence to back it up. If you’re interested in the role of social media on this, here’s an excellent introduction to it from Shay Woulahan & Hannah Berelli: th-cam.com/video/Xpqn-GJRduQ/w-d-xo.html
Kids aren’t falling for this. They are being taught it at school. This is now part of the curriculum via third party LGBTQ groups comping in to give lessons on it. This is social propaganda on a global scale. . It’s absolutely horrendous.
It's not difficult to see why children and young adults with autism are drawn to this ideology. It is (incorectly) an explain all and cure all to their personal woes but also its one of their special interests because of how the identities can morph into further subdivisions.
i've seen school nurses & administrators tell parents their autistic child can be "fixed" by transitioning(Elementary school) HS: counselors are so permissive that "trans" kids can get out of school work, behavior issues, etc. they ignore depression, then tell parents kid will delete themselves if they do not go along with clearly disturbed child. i left school system (NY)
@@emmapeel8163 When you say you've "seen" it, what do you mean? And whose diagnosis is the "autistic"? Yours or the nurses and administrators? I don't know if I trust your anecdote or not; it's credible but it is rather vague (and no offence, but you're clearly not Emma Peel, so that is clearly a sock puppet account, not that I blame you; some things can only be honestly discussed from behind a mask). If it's true it should be scandalous, but we need documentary evidence of it being true. I think a lot of this is bottom up via influencers rather than top down from institutions. My daughter's school still uses her old name - I get school reports using her old name; it's only me who is excommunicated for not using her preferred pronouns! So the school didn't force the ideology on her; her mum and the online influencers and the mainstream media did. I think institutions are going along with this stuff because they are afraid of retribution from activists. And I certainly don't think anyone is touting this as a cure for autism. I think autistic symptoms... actually screw it, I'm not going to say "autistic symptoms" either because "autism" too is a cultural artefact that has become an "identity"... I will instead say "social awkwardness"... I think "social awkwardness", anxiety and discomfort with oneself is being misdiagnosed as "transness", which may not even include "gender dysphoria" (the claim made by a lot of activists now is not all trans experience dysphoria - you don't have to feel alienated from your own body anymore.), but in most cases this misdiagnosis is a self-diagnosis that professionals feel increasingly under pressure to affirm.
@@markpostgate2551 .. for Pete's sake! i can't use my real name cuz i still work with kids. since i was a volunteer at 15 to now a private "nanny" (rich kids in boarding schools in CT) Physically & Mentally handicapped kids was my "profession" until i had my own. then i became a Sunday school teacher & worked at a Westchester School system (NY) the nurses in the Elementary school absolutely convinced 3 separate families that their autistic child (special needs) would be "fixed" (her words, not mine) by exploring & transitioning gender. School Administrators were also present. the HS incidents were from my daughter's frustration with "Chris" who constantly disrupted classes. she complained & even though she was founder GSA .. she was warned more complaints, SHE would have her permanent record noted as "transphobic" (!!!!!!!) say goodbye to scholarships & college. i taught Chris as a child. he was a nerdy kid & his parents indulged him to ridiculous proportions. my home was a Safe House: kids of alcoholics, Gays, etc showed up sometimes bare foot & pajamas. there's a huge & obvious difference between an LGB teen & mental disorder teen. in 5-10 years. this madness will either be corrected (sucks for all the puberty blockers & surgery ones) or society will indeed be 3 seconds to implosion.
I am so thankful for Helen Joyce. Love her book and could listen to her all day. The other two books you mention (by Shrier and Soh) are also very good and a must read for everybody who questions the ideology.
You got my subscription. Quillette, you have a gem of an interviewer. I listen to pretty much anything Helen Joyce does. Mr. Kay is amongst a small number of interviewers who managed to hoist themselves into the realm of true conversation, at her level, and then frolic in the heights. Well done.
The arcane typology reminds me of aspects of fantasy culture, pokemon and game cards and such. Interestingly my nephew at a young age could rattle off such information in shocking detail. He came out as trans around 12.
Interesting. I see parallels with computer game culture. Many games start with the player having to choose the character they will play/perform with multiple options for each of a range of features (gender, size, hair, vehicle/weapon/special-powers etc)
@@OrwellsHousecat 100. This seems like the most apt comparison to me as well. Humans on a subconscious level cannot differentiate between A/V media and reality. real space and digital space will continue to converge. It seems like a joke, but I wouldn’t be surprised if our current debate over identifying as another gender is replaced, not by simply identifying as another race, but as another species, with human augmentation becoming widespread. The ultimate freedom to express yourself is no longer how you look with superficialities like clothes and make up but down to an essential level.
Fascination with typology, taxonomy, and hierarchy is a hallmark of of autism spectrum disorder. These autistic kids are very 'online' and get sucked into to fantasy/cartoon worlds. These 'identities', categories, and sub-categories are essentially placeholder terms for autism.
30:09 I remember the 80s feminist movement, even prior to the trans inclusion, included many activists who denied that men were naturally physically stronger than women; for example they were angry that Gary Gygax's AD&D had a rule that a female human character couldn't have 18 (with 18 being human maximum) strength unless it was due to enhancement by a magical item or spell, and would attribute the statistical difference to men eating larger portions or having different upbringings that favoured physical activity - in Brief they believed every male advantage was a product of sexist culture rather than a natural difference. That was absolutist radical feminism in the 80s - by the end of the 90s it had mellowed and cooler heads prevailed (until the 2010s when it all kicked off again!), so the idea that segregated sports might be some form of male chauvinism isn't a new idea so much as a revival of an old one for the benefit of a different demographic. It's not as if this is the first schism that feminism has ever faced! I'm just adding some historical context; a lot of these ideas are revisited ideas spread more effectively due to the ubiquity of social media. You can see how claiming that men would avoid competing with women to evade humiliation is exactly the argument that would appeal to a naive young feminist (I've often said it's not an ideology; it is a rhetorical tool that can be utilised towards goals that could be polar opposites).
Exactly this. I remember some women who really did take offense at the simple biological differences between men & women, but I blame queer theory/inersectionalism more for sticking its post modernist head up Butler’s behind. I do remember a chief in Basic Training that made the guys compete with the women on push ups just so they could wipe the floor with us. Of course they crowed about it, they’re men! But then he’d turn around and have them compete with us on sit ups so we could wipe the floor with them, and he’d give a little lecture in female vs male pelvis ratios. He was a fitness coach, and absolutely loved working with men & women (and reality). I often wish I knew what he thought of all the craziness going on in the sports world (and now military)!
@tilly2171 Not really, because there IS a men's rights movement and what earlier versions of feminism, including gender critical feminists, and MRAs have in common, despite their vast differences in opinion, is they both oppose what they perceive to be sexism; feminists are predominantly, and perhaps exclusively, concerned with sexism against women, and MRAs predominantly or exclusively concerned with sexism against men, but transactivists, and by allegiance modern "intersectional feminists", are intent on the erasure of sex as a topic of communication, and therefore derail both of the former groups. They sabotage feminist discourse, but they sabotage MRA discourse too. I know you will want to fight me on identifying which sex is subject to the most sexism, but to do so we have to defend the linguistic tools to permit us to do so. Male MRAs identify as men, or at least the vast majority do, otherwise they wouldn't be MRAs. That should be obvious.
@@JaneA544 BigBrotherG scrubbedyou It must have been the GIword If you get creative toObscure certainTopics you think might attractBigBro thenyou can get around it LikeI’m doing. Oh current events eh?
Yep, I have zero sympathy for feminists. It was exactly the denial of the reality of gender differences between men and women that gave rise to the identity subjectivity that we see today. If there's no biological basis to gender, and gender and sex have no causal relationship, then it follows that anyone can identify themselves as they like, it's only a matter of self identification. It was the feminists that pushed for this in the first place by denying innate differences between men and women, and denying this biological influence on men's and women's behavior and gender roles in society.
14:20 there's no such thing as "real transphobia", as "transgenderism" is a delusion, not an actual medical condition. "Trans" people do not, in fact, exist. They exist as humans, but are either male, or female, and their 'trand identity" is a figment of their imagination. Whether they choose to present themselves this way due to fetishistic autogynophilia, or gender dysphoria, is irrelevant. " Transgenderism" does not exist, therefore "transphobia" does not exist.
46:17 Exulansic, a feminist researcher and creator you would enjoy interviewing, has some illuminating points about this opportunity to explain one’s arcane gender identity. Particularly for people with social pragmatic communication difficulties, people on the autism spectrum, people who just can’t make conversation with ease, this is something to talk about. It’s a script to which everyone is now expected to listen. It’s a stand-in for back-and-forth exchange. For many, it’s also an opportunity to feel superior, to shame or control the other person who first misgenders you and must now be “educated.” Wonderful interview. Well done.
That opening discussion about the trans activists' aggression varying according to the way the publisher handles things-- it's so true. Like any bully, they seem to sniff out very fast who will cringe when they raise their fist and who won't, and they usually just move on from the ones who won't.
They allow you to specify sex but not to insist on biological sex. They only deal with identified sex. Which to be honest is pretty reasonable. You can't expect the people running the dating site to be responsible for figuring out whether people who say they are women are actually biological women or not, just as they can't tell if you are actually 6 foot tall or have a good sense of humour.
@@jrd33 Pure rubbish. Sex is a factual marker. Gender is ephemeral and their and your thinking is skewed. People want to know what sex a potential partner is and you bloody well know it. Give up this madness.
@@TheSapphire51 I'm just telling you how I imagine the dating agencies work, and why. All dating agencies do is carry adverts, they don't claim to verify the information in the adverts. I'm baffled as to what you think of this is "pure rubbish". I'm not offering any personal opinion on sex or gender so perhaps you misread my comment.
Lord, I HOPE the tide turns soon! Like Helen Joyce, I am a dead-boring plain vanilla heterosexual. And I REALLY wish I could wave a magic wand and make women as strong as men. Life would be so much better. But it’s not ever gonna bloody happen.
Have you considered you're just a boring person and it has nothing to do with heterosexuality or women's strength? You being a piece of soggy bread is a you problem only.
Hahahaha! During the conversation about sexualities I was thinking this was starting to sound like Metal Genres, and at 45 minutes that's exactly what the interviewer came up with. Good job!
As someone who used to call themselves progressive let me advise any other leftist who is concerned about these things to take the allies where you can get them. The unfortunate truth is that right now conservatives are carrying the rationality football. We can all tear each other apart over details later. Right now, we should draw the line between those who have a coherent concept of reality and those who don't. This is not the only issue where that distinction is the primary factor.
This may be too broad a stroke, but you don’t have to squint too hard to see how both traditionally masculine & feminine traits and identities have been (at least somewhat) marginalized over the last few decades….this seemed to start in academia (feminist/critical theory) & has had a slow/steady march into our institutions and popular culture….many kids/young adults see the Trans/Fantasy spectrum as an intuitively easier way to fashion an identity/role.
Thanks for the snarky qualifier at the beginning. Seriously, I am so sick of the endless qualifiers that creators use at the beginning of videos as trigger warnings for those that believe the world should be molded entirely to suit their needs and wants. I, for one, am ready to graduate from emotional kindergarten and find out what the adults are talking about, when they're 'allowed' to talk and not drowned out by screaming children. When you've found your world view narrows to a pin point and that you are becoming more reactive and more and more childish and immature not less, then maybe it's time to reverse the process and recognize that an ever broadening perspective is a more humanizing space and the key of happiness, not a ever limiting one that demands others be policed into compliance.
I agree with her position on sex realism etc, but I do have to take umbrage with statements such as "if these women were men they'd be CEOs." 99% of men aren't CEOs either so it isn't about taking time out to have kids, it is about the level of sacrifice you are willing to make to attain that position. It is a patently absurd - and frankly quite sexist - position to take because it works on the premise that ALL men should therefore be CEOs because they don't bear children. Obviously they are not all CEOs, so there's clearly a problem with the premise.
Indeed. A lot of the women pushing back against trans ideology are also strong feminists. They may be temporary allies of Conservatives on the trans issue but it is a mistake to think that they have softened their positions regarding men at all.
Thank you for speaking the truth, and in the best way i ever heard! 🙂🤗👍🏻 I am sorry that I hadnt heard of neither you, or your book, before I saw your interwiev on Triggernometry! I love the way you are presenning the argument too…! Its so to the point, and its easy to follow…in all this craziness that goes on. Thank you so much for beeing sucha wonderfull Voice of reason! 🙂 I have gotten my self a new hero, and, I am so off to the bookstore to get your book! The podcast are really good too! Sorry to say, that wasnew to me also, but I have, obviously, subscribed now!👍🏻 All the best from Anlaug in Norway, that really wish that more people could be a little bit more like you! A great ray of truth, kindness, values, reality, real justice, courage and everything good, shining trough all the mud and identety narcissism! Thank you so much, and have a fantastic day, and a fantastic new year.
So is trolling just a compulsion then or was it mandatory? Since your name is Pedro I am going to assume (perhaps recklessly) that you have a penis, so in theory (specifically your theory) you should be able to get what you want, and you don't want to troll, and yet you are trolling, so you didn't get what you want despite having a penis! That's a bit paradoxical.
Billions killed in wars Yes some women were also but nothing on the scale Swap you the vote for going over the top in WW1 Or any ear Men down coal pits Not many ladies waiting for a shot Men out in oil rigs Giirls not so much
To the interviewer, maybe you should begin by challenging your perception that conservatives are automatically insert whatever-phobic here. Conservatives have certain values you may or may not agree with but if anything comes out of the trans debate it should be that “progress” isn’t always positive. Traditional doesn’t always mean oppressive. If you want freedom of ideas you need to allow for varying perspectives without outright dismissal based on political persuasion.
I have some conservative valued and some not so conservative values. I like to listen to all sides. This ideology is insane though and we need sanity back.
Why are so many people so averse to being called names? The saying "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" seems to have been forgotten. I advise that people take the name-calling in stride and stick to their principles.
Because some can lose a job over this in some workplaces. It's still fine to call a woman a b*ch in the workplace, among other things, but say one thing remotely against trans-people, you risk losing your job.
There is a view that if someone labels you and you don't reject it, then you have accepted the label. If person A says person B is a Conservative, and person B doesn't disagree, then person C will likely assume that person B is in fact a Conservative. People don't like being called names because names stick.
Man: Adult, Human, Male. Woman: Adult, Human, Female. An adult male dog is not a man, a human male who is not an adult is not a man, an adult human who is not a male is not a man. An adult female dog is not a woman, a human female who is not an adult is not a woman, an adult human who is not female is not a woman. That's how you define it. That's it. Three criteria, two of them overlapping, the third defining the difference between them.
Ms Jackson could have responded that historically a woman has been thought of as an adult human female but now many laws have been passed that also include "transgender women" who were born as males but identified as women in that class . Wouldn't that have been better than how she did react ? It seems like she she wasn't very well prepared for her hearing .
18:00 Fucking hell, I did not know about that. Those therapists are supposed to KNOW how the human psyche works, women will almost NEVER confront a crossdresser in their space. Crossdressers are inherently creepy, so our first instinct is basically to keep our head down and flee. Sure, there are tough ladies out there who would confront them. But a 14yo girl, or even a young woman in her twenties? I like to think I would be brave enough to confront a dude in my space, but ... our instinct is to NOT piss off someone who is bigger, stronger.
I hope so. Enough of the ridiculousness. Enough of the denial of truth, facts, science and biology. Enough of the denouncement of anyone who tells the truth.
Good lord. We're seeing more and more that everything beyond the act that makes babies is a madhouse. Heading straight into proving the medieval theologians right.... the hard way.
@@markkavanagh7377 Democracy decides things through debate, discussion, diplomacy and voting. Authoritarianism decides things and then imposes those decisions, refusing to debate/discuss, punishing & silencing & criminalising dissent
Yep. Let's hope this is the year when that echo chamber implodes. Almost fun to see them work so hard to maintain it; JK Rowling gets good press, then Pinknews swings back with a fiction about her 'trans-hatred'. It would all be so comadic if kids weren't being mutilated and sterilised, nor women being bullied.
There seem to be a lot of trans women (born male) who say they are lesbian. I’m curious as to whether there are similar numbers of trans men (born female) who say they are gay (attracted to men), and do they get harassment on dating sites if they say they are only looking for biological men? Or do gay men get harassed if they say they only want to date biological men? In other words, is it only the ask that someone be a biological woman that is deemed offensive?
I hate the use of "-phobia" as a condemnatory epithet. It is a severe affliction for those who suffer it. To use it as a boo-word is stigmatising mental ill-health. If you want to condemn people for their attitude, use a different word. Be creative.
I never used it (even though there are some men, often closeted gay themselves, who just cannot forgive openly gay men). I always used *gay-hating/woman-hating person* and so on. The people that hate trans-identified people, hate them because they think they are all gay. There's no such thing as transphobia.
The so called gender terminology is hilarious. Very much on par with Psychiatric DSM “diagnoses” which is quite ironic. And they call “crazy” people whose communications they don’t understand “word salad.” 😂
Trans widows, that is, ex-wives of cross-dressing men, must be included in the analyses. We've experienced the medical malpractice as adults--Ute Heggen youtube channel for details.
Science is becoming a social construct. I am studying the gender fluid gametes .They are Inbetween male and female called speggs(sperm snd eggs,) I use the science of speggstroscopy.! I also study CAT GENDER =,CRYPTO AUTOGYNEPHILLIC TRANSMISOGONY IN MY SPARE TIME.
Perhaps, we should give them a different category for documentation TS on birth, driver lic. Passport, period. We acknowledged bio&gender. Have Unisex & own jail/spaces. They are Not & Will Never be the Sex they "Trans" to; a Fact.
I actually did come across a trans woman at a Victoria secret changing room in about 2001 I think. My friend and I were trying some things on and came out of our respective rooms to get one another’s opinions and there she was. Quite frankly it was her that looked terrified. She was off in a corner kind of minding her own business but we could see her reflection in the mirror. It was obvious she was afraid we would say something or complain to management. At the time I actually felt really badly for her. I wanted to assure her somehow that it was fine but I was only about 19 and I really didn’t know how to approach the situation. Would I offend her if I acknowledged the situation? We didn’t say anything and just pretended not to notice. This was long before all that is going on now. I’d never heard the term transphobic and wasn’t even aware I might be labeled as such if I had a problem with her presence. I quite naturally had no problem with it. I do take issue with some of the things that are going on in the trans movement. Labeling people bigots because of sexual orientation and biological men competing against biological women in sports to name a few. But I’m sorry, I still don’t think pervs are habitually throwing dresses on and perving out in women’s bathrooms and changing rooms.
@ascent Really a man dressed as a women in an underwear looked a bit sheepish in the changing room when spotted by some girls Just wanted left alone Looked nervous about being there Come on you ain’t that daft
You want to know why you had no problem with him? Because he looked pathetic and you didn't understand what was going on. Completely different situation nowadays where they'll get up in your face and scream at you because the ones that are going in women's spaces are perverted narcs.
Naked men should not be in women's changing rooms. That is what is going on now, and they are protected by law in many places. If women complain, they are dismissed or asked to leave.
@ascent8487 Well perhaps you need to listen to women bc the stories are plentiful of “pervs” invading women’s spaces. They big foot their ways into groups about menstruation, menopause, & even miscarriages!! Women who’ve experienced devastating losses are forced to have these ghouls sit in & experience euphoria bc they’re in women’s most intimate spaces!!
Well there's no such thing as the wrong body though, you are born in the body you have and you may develop mental illness that perpetuates your perception of societal roles and insecurities about your own body, which we all go through. Difference is most of us grow out of it compared to the ill.
Ignorance is thick and dies hard in bigoted brains but truth and love always win. Helen, what you are doing, is ruining relationships with your family and friends and reality and compassion. You can’t destroy reality but you can hide it long enough to hurt a lot of people, including yourself.
@@Tawny593anyone defending it hasn't thought through the consequences. Also, there's a disturbing lack of knowledge of science within the trans movement.
Joyce is simply upset that her feminist orthodoxy is not being adhered to. She has just as much contempt for men as the average feminist academician. It's a civil war within the ideology and I refuse to take a side
I clicked on the video wondering how someone could fill fifty minutes with transphobic rhetoric; apparently they only managed to do so by being ignorant about non binary people with autism spectrum disorder and asexual people. For all their talk about science and evidence, you’d think they’d look into what everything meant before they showed themselves up like that.
There is no such thing as a non-binary human, unless they're a rare genetic abnormality. And people can't be gender fluid. No one is going to look at their bones decades later and say, "Looks like a female but tomorrow it could be male."
Transing away the gay is also a conversion therapy
No... It's just playing dress up.
@@project.jericho what they are saying is it is easier for toxic male dads to have a Trans daughter than a gay son...
We are seeing gay kids being told they are Trans because hetro society prefers their own norms...I you are a boy and you like boys than you must be Trans, or a girl that likes other girls - you must be a boy ...there really is a great deal of gay children being told they are Trans instead of gay because it fits their hetro ideology
@@c.a.greene8395 This has nothing to do with the preference of traditional heterosexual people. You totally misunderstand the history of the trans movement. This has been percolating for over 30 years.
@@dilvishpa5776 I actually run a charity, we do peer to peer counseling ( as well as many other community projects)
Of the teenagers that I have known since the age of 4- (who come for art classes, knitting classes, sewing classes,) more than 60% of them are gay, but guess what? They are also Trans...because it's easier for herto dads to accept a Trans daughter than a gay son...the girls in my classes are dealing with the advances of adult men...predatory behavior due to the changes in their teenage bodies...it's hard enough dealing with the attentions of immature teenage boys, but the adult male harassment is off the charts!! These girls are "opting out" - taking themselves OFF the prey list...they don't want to be boys, they just want to be left alone and return to the days before they grew tits and hips...
I grew up around tens of dozens of transvestites, homosexuals, and Trans male to female persons in the 70's and 80's...my mom was a fag hag!
If anyone 'understands' this perversion, I do - trust me, I seen it all...
@@c.a.greene8395 I believe you are suffering from sampling bias. Your view is akin to someone concluding all young girls are promiscuous by interviewing girls exiting a birth control clinic.
Every time Helen speaks she articulates a new perspective on the reality that SEX MATTERS.
Thank you. I’m now convinced to check out her book. I’m a very frustrated gay male. TERG? The inherent misogyny and homophobia of the Gender Nazis makes me very angry. There are many ways I have tried to explain how we are still very much a mammalian species of animal. I really appreciated when Helen referred to our mammalian gender binary. Thanks.
Lol, please make TERG a thing.
@@JH-vy7uy I’ll try…Proud TERG here, standing with Team Terf!
@@renzinthewoods given this is an infomercial for her book it is not surprising you want a copy. just pointing at animals and saying 'see, no trans dogs so no trans humans' is pointless because humans are not other animals. other mammals sometimes eat their own children or engage in gang r*pe. so these things are natural therefore acceptable for humans to do? all species will have behaviour or characteristics that are unique to that species. it doesnt make it unnatural that quality is rare or even unique. it only makes it less common.
@@ginaritchie451 Quite a good argument but isn't that also an argument to support that this trans fetish thing is unnatural? For most, if not all of the males identified as trans, it's a fetish and many are convicted s*x offenders. You only have look on social media to see that's obvious. I think the point is we have gay animals but no trans animals or with other fetishes. Animals don't wear clothes and make up or can't perform surgery because these are unnatural. Humans do things unique murder, but does that make it right? Nope. Women & young girls need safety in the locker rooms, showers, dorms, wards, cells and everytime you argue for a male to be in them, you are complicit in the violation of their boundaries and any s*x offences committed against them.
I'm going to start using TERG.
I could listen to Helen Joyce all day. Thanks very much! Happy New Year and hopefully in 2023 we see this stuff retreat.
Same! I really love her breakdowns of the cray
Yep, Helens is brilliantly clear and concise x
2023, YEAR OF THE TERF!💖✊🏽♀️
All day?!? Your obsession is concerning
@@kilgoretrout413 She's clever, articulate and interesting, Mr Trout, as no doubt you are too. Any fan of Vonnegut gets some approval from me.
I'm now reading the last chapter of Helen's book "Trans" and highly recommend the book to anyone trying to get up to speed on this matter. Her work is excellent and very important. Here in the U.S. perhaps the greatest irony in all this is that so called Third Wave Feminism has in "real world" matters simply morphed into what could be quite accurately described as a - "men's rights" movement.
Nope, third wave feminism is not remotely a men's rights movement. It champions feminism and pushes men down. It demoralises men with the only escape route being to become 'female' and champion females/'females' over males.
It's bizarre that you don't see that.
@@OrwellsHousecat From my perspective a "feminism" that is more concerned about the "rights" of biological men "who identify" as women - while ignoring the rights of actual real life "biological women" negatively impacted by those biological men - is in fact a "men's rights movement." Women's rights (as in "biological women") are apparently completely irrelevant to many Third Wave Feminists who seem preoccupied with the rights of so called "trans women" - who are predominately biological males complete with a penis, gonads, and often a beard. "It's bizarre that you don't see that." : /
@@garyweglarz I do see that, but that is definitely not men's rights, that's trains rights ('wmn' who were men but are now something entirely different) because it only applies to trains not to the class of 'men'. Bizarre that you choose to ignore that.
@@OrwellsHousecat How is a biological male with a penis, gonads and a beard best described - in your words - ('wmn' who were men but are now something entirely different')? 80% of biological men who "identify as women" never transition - so how are they NOT biological men? Just wondering.
@@garyweglarz how can you classify men and trains as the same when Feminism, feminists organisations, feminist theory, and most wmn classify them as different? Men don't think they're wmn. It's a third classification at the very least.
Helen Joyce is devastatingly good in her sane, grounded and unapologetic realism.
When this fight IS finally won, it will be because politicians finally understand that there is no reasonable rebuttal to her arguments - and that 85% of everyday people are utterly behind her.
I love Helen Joyce's voice. Evoke's trust. And of course she makes perfect sense all the time.
agreed, she has a great cadence to the way she speaks
it's a relief to listen to her! in contrast to my own jumbled thoughts
Yeah it does. Makes me think of teachers or dinner ladies I had when I was at school for some reason. Not sure if any of them did sound like her but that’s what her voice brings to mind for me.
@@benhall2235 Her cadance and tone combined with her intellegence predisposes me to believe her...
I was a bit meh! about clicking this vid but this lady is so fascinating and animated. If she had her own channel I'd subscribe immediately. For someone who had gender dysphoria most of my life and felt not normal, I realize now that my ailment was caused by my boundaries being constantly crossed by my mother, my peers and society. The kids don't need gender reassignment, they need to be taught how to protect and honour their boundaries, respect for each others boundaries and clear communication and stand for equal rights including bodily autonomy.
For God's sake, would you consider that your personal experience doesn't mean you're qualified to direct other people's treatment? THIS is what I see right and left in these gender-critical safe spaces. It goes from a theoretical model that at least is based on data to complete hypothetical guesswork!
That's G/D by a commorbidity "trauma" , not G/D caused by severe Gender non-conformity. No one like that should be transitioned and its not the same .
TERF stands for Trans Exclusionary Rational Feminist, and I'm happy to be one.
Enjoy being heralded as anti woke while having your own deluded rhetoric about men unquestioned.
@@oraz. don't presume you know what l think.
@@mayormccheese6171 It doesn't matter what you think. It's what you support, however you want personally rebrand feminism aside.
@@oraz. what are you even accusing me of? Are you a man in a dress?
@@mayormccheese6171 No, are you?
If you want to protect women's sex based rights for safety & dignity, want to protect safeguarding for children and vulnerable people, want to protect the rights of LGB, want to stop the irreversible mutilation of children, then stop being silent out of fear. Have courage!
As astute as Joyce is, she never seems to drill down far enough on why young people have embraced this craziness. To my mind it comes down to the sheer boredom of growing up in the U.S. since the 1980s. I just rewatched “The Sandlot” today with a group of kids, and I found myself wondering how they could make sense of the kind of freedom kids used to have. We have abolished childhood adventure. We treat kids like they’re hopelessly stupid but they’re not, so they’re bored out of their minds. Of course they’re going to grab onto fads that are eccentric and still transgressive enough to engage the need teenagers will always have for pushing boundaries and practicing contrarianism. These are good things, and as old as the human race, but we now raise children in a sterile, deathly dull bubble, with no hope of escape until age 18, by which time they will have to learn to not raise their hands when they want to speak. Helicopter parenting and childcare and 13 years of obedience training in school gave us the trans craze. Seems to me that if young people want to upset and confound us boomers, we had it coming for what we did to childhood. It’s unforgivable.
She drills down into details in her book 'Trans'.
Young people aren't embracing this, they're being spoon-fed this from the classroom. It's just another way of stimulating the economy like gay rights, marriage and civil partnerships did a decade ago. Young people are going through the biggest transition of their lives from childhood to adulthood which is traumatic and confusing enough, adapting to surge of hormones, increasing responsibilities and change in social heirarchy.
She is very clear that there are a number of drivers of this, no one thing but a perfect storm. And she has plenty of evidence to back it up.
If you’re interested in the role of social media on this, here’s an excellent introduction to it from Shay Woulahan & Hannah Berelli:
th-cam.com/video/Xpqn-GJRduQ/w-d-xo.html
Kids aren’t falling for this. They are being taught it at school. This is now part of the curriculum via third party LGBTQ groups comping in to give lessons on it. This is social propaganda on a global scale. . It’s absolutely horrendous.
This might help. A very informative presentation at the last LGB Alliance conference
th-cam.com/video/Xpqn-GJRduQ/w-d-xo.html
H. J. always makes great good sense. So reasonable. Grateful to listen to her. Thanks.
It's not difficult to see why children and young adults with autism are drawn to this ideology. It is (incorectly) an explain all and cure all to their personal woes but also its one of their special interests because of how the identities can morph into further subdivisions.
Autistics are also more prone to conditions like anorexia, self harm and obsessive disorder, so it could just be a predisposition towards obsession.
i've seen school nurses & administrators tell parents their autistic child can be "fixed" by transitioning(Elementary school)
HS: counselors are so permissive that "trans" kids can get out of school work, behavior issues, etc. they ignore depression, then tell parents kid will delete themselves if they do not go along with clearly disturbed child.
i left school system (NY)
@@emmapeel8163
When you say you've "seen" it, what do you mean? And whose diagnosis is the "autistic"? Yours or the nurses and administrators? I don't know if I trust your anecdote or not; it's credible but it is rather vague (and no offence, but you're clearly not Emma Peel, so that is clearly a sock puppet account, not that I blame you; some things can only be honestly discussed from behind a mask). If it's true it should be scandalous, but we need documentary evidence of it being true.
I think a lot of this is bottom up via influencers rather than top down from institutions. My daughter's school still uses her old name - I get school reports using her old name; it's only me who is excommunicated for not using her preferred pronouns! So the school didn't force the ideology on her; her mum and the online influencers and the mainstream media did. I think institutions are going along with this stuff because they are afraid of retribution from activists. And I certainly don't think anyone is touting this as a cure for autism. I think autistic symptoms... actually screw it, I'm not going to say "autistic symptoms" either because "autism" too is a cultural artefact that has become an "identity"... I will instead say "social awkwardness"... I think "social awkwardness", anxiety and discomfort with oneself is being misdiagnosed as "transness", which may not even include "gender dysphoria" (the claim made by a lot of activists now is not all trans experience dysphoria - you don't have to feel alienated from your own body anymore.), but in most cases this misdiagnosis is a self-diagnosis that professionals feel increasingly under pressure to affirm.
@@markpostgate2551 .. for Pete's sake! i can't use my real name cuz i still work with kids.
since i was a volunteer at 15 to now a private "nanny" (rich kids in boarding schools in CT)
Physically & Mentally handicapped kids was my "profession" until i had my own.
then i became a Sunday school teacher & worked at a Westchester School system (NY)
the nurses in the Elementary school absolutely convinced 3 separate families that their autistic child (special needs) would be "fixed" (her words, not mine) by exploring & transitioning gender.
School Administrators were also present.
the HS incidents were from my daughter's frustration with "Chris" who constantly disrupted classes.
she complained & even though she was founder GSA .. she was warned more complaints, SHE would have her permanent record noted as "transphobic" (!!!!!!!) say goodbye to scholarships & college.
i taught Chris as a child. he was a nerdy kid & his parents indulged him to ridiculous proportions.
my home was a Safe House: kids of alcoholics, Gays, etc showed up sometimes bare foot & pajamas.
there's a huge & obvious difference between an LGB teen & mental disorder teen.
in 5-10 years. this madness will either be corrected (sucks for all the puberty blockers & surgery ones) or society will indeed be 3 seconds to implosion.
@@emmapeel8163 Puberty blockers delay onset of puberty. That's it. Whatever nonsense you've heard, please stop repeating it!
I have heard many talks with the brilliant HJ and this is one of my favourites. This one seems to be a bit more fun and relaxed. Great work Jonathon.
This problem has been produced by a sex-mad society. What about just being a person aiming to be your best self?
Thank you Helen Joyce for openly and politely disagreeing with your host about using surgeries and drugs on 'true trans' teenagers.
I'm so glad people are starting to get brave about calling out all the recent nonsense.
I am so thankful for Helen Joyce. Love her book and could listen to her all day. The other two books you mention (by Shrier and Soh) are also very good and a must read for everybody who questions the ideology.
You got my subscription. Quillette, you have a gem of an interviewer. I listen to pretty much anything Helen Joyce does. Mr. Kay is amongst a small number of interviewers who managed to hoist themselves into the realm of true conversation, at her level, and then frolic in the heights. Well done.
The arcane typology reminds me of aspects of fantasy culture, pokemon and game cards and such. Interestingly my nephew at a young age could rattle off such information in shocking detail. He came out as trans around 12.
Interesting.
I see parallels with computer game culture. Many games start with the player having to choose the character they will play/perform with multiple options for each of a range of features (gender, size, hair, vehicle/weapon/special-powers etc)
@@OrwellsHousecat 100. This seems like the most apt comparison to me as well. Humans on a subconscious level cannot differentiate between A/V media and reality. real space and digital space will continue to converge. It seems like a joke, but I wouldn’t be surprised if our current debate over identifying as another gender is replaced, not by simply identifying as another race, but as another species, with human augmentation becoming widespread. The ultimate freedom to express yourself is no longer how you look with superficialities like clothes and make up but down to an essential level.
Oh, get real, boys. The blueprint for gender comes from patriarchal sexist stereotypes. Catch up already.
Fascination with typology, taxonomy, and hierarchy is a hallmark of of autism spectrum disorder. These autistic kids are very 'online' and get sucked into to fantasy/cartoon worlds. These 'identities', categories, and sub-categories are essentially placeholder terms for autism.
If you look at the different flags, it’s v much like when u were a kid and had those sticker books. It’s just more stickers
30:09 I remember the 80s feminist movement, even prior to the trans inclusion, included many activists who denied that men were naturally physically stronger than women; for example they were angry that Gary Gygax's AD&D had a rule that a female human character couldn't have 18 (with 18 being human maximum) strength unless it was due to enhancement by a magical item or spell, and would attribute the statistical difference to men eating larger portions or having different upbringings that favoured physical activity - in Brief they believed every male advantage was a product of sexist culture rather than a natural difference. That was absolutist radical feminism in the 80s - by the end of the 90s it had mellowed and cooler heads prevailed (until the 2010s when it all kicked off again!), so the idea that segregated sports might be some form of male chauvinism isn't a new idea so much as a revival of an old one for the benefit of a different demographic. It's not as if this is the first schism that feminism has ever faced!
I'm just adding some historical context; a lot of these ideas are revisited ideas spread more effectively due to the ubiquity of social media.
You can see how claiming that men would avoid competing with women to evade humiliation is exactly the argument that would appeal to a naive young feminist (I've often said it's not an ideology; it is a rhetorical tool that can be utilised towards goals that could be polar opposites).
Exactly this. I remember some women who really did take offense at the simple biological differences between men & women, but I blame queer theory/inersectionalism more for sticking its post modernist head up Butler’s behind.
I do remember a chief in Basic Training that made the guys compete with the women on push ups just so they could wipe the floor with us. Of course they crowed about it, they’re men! But then he’d turn around and have them compete with us on sit ups so we could wipe the floor with them, and he’d give a little lecture in female vs male pelvis ratios. He was a fitness coach, and absolutely loved working with men & women (and reality). I often wish I knew what he thought of all the craziness going on in the sports world (and now military)!
Gender ideology is a men's rights movement
@tilly2171
Not really, because there IS a men's rights movement and what earlier versions of feminism, including gender critical feminists, and MRAs have in common, despite their vast differences in opinion, is they both oppose what they perceive to be sexism; feminists are predominantly, and perhaps exclusively, concerned with sexism against women, and MRAs predominantly or exclusively concerned with sexism against men, but transactivists, and by allegiance modern "intersectional feminists", are intent on the erasure of sex as a topic of communication, and therefore derail both of the former groups. They sabotage feminist discourse, but they sabotage MRA discourse too.
I know you will want to fight me on identifying which sex is subject to the most sexism, but to do so we have to defend the linguistic tools to permit us to do so.
Male MRAs identify as men, or at least the vast majority do, otherwise they wouldn't be MRAs. That should be obvious.
@@JaneA544 BigBrotherG scrubbedyou It must have been the GIword If you get creative toObscure certainTopics you think might attractBigBro thenyou can get around it LikeI’m doing. Oh current events eh?
Yep, I have zero sympathy for feminists. It was exactly the denial of the reality of gender differences between men and women that gave rise to the identity subjectivity that we see today. If there's no biological basis to gender, and gender and sex have no causal relationship, then it follows that anyone can identify themselves as they like, it's only a matter of self identification. It was the feminists that pushed for this in the first place by denying innate differences between men and women, and denying this biological influence on men's and women's behavior and gender roles in society.
14:20 there's no such thing as "real transphobia", as "transgenderism" is a delusion, not an actual medical condition.
"Trans" people do not, in fact, exist.
They exist as humans, but are either male, or female, and their 'trand identity" is a figment of their imagination.
Whether they choose to present themselves this way due to fetishistic autogynophilia, or gender dysphoria, is irrelevant.
" Transgenderism" does not exist, therefore "transphobia" does not exist.
Yes thank you!😁 My thoughts exactly🙌🏽
46:17 Exulansic, a feminist researcher and creator you would enjoy interviewing, has some illuminating points about this opportunity to explain one’s arcane gender identity. Particularly for people with social pragmatic communication difficulties, people on the autism spectrum, people who just can’t make conversation with ease, this is something to talk about. It’s a script to which everyone is now expected to listen. It’s a stand-in for back-and-forth exchange.
For many, it’s also an opportunity to feel superior, to shame or control the other person who first misgenders you and must now be “educated.”
Wonderful interview. Well done.
I enjoyed this conversation between two intelligent humans. Thanks!
Everybody’s gone terfing… Terf in USA… sorry, sorry, couldn’t help myself 😂😂😂😂😂
That opening discussion about the trans activists' aggression varying according to the way the publisher handles things-- it's so true. Like any bully, they seem to sniff out very fast who will cringe when they raise their fist and who won't, and they usually just move on from the ones who won't.
Dating apps don't ALLOW you to say your sexual preference for a partner🤣🤣🤣🤣 give me a break and keep well away from the nutters.
They allow you to specify sex but not to insist on biological sex. They only deal with identified sex. Which to be honest is pretty reasonable. You can't expect the people running the dating site to be responsible for figuring out whether people who say they are women are actually biological women or not, just as they can't tell if you are actually 6 foot tall or have a good sense of humour.
@@jrd33 Pure rubbish. Sex is a factual marker. Gender is ephemeral and their and your thinking is skewed. People want to know what sex a potential partner is and you bloody well know it. Give up this madness.
@@TheSapphire51 I'm just telling you how I imagine the dating agencies work, and why. All dating agencies do is carry adverts, they don't claim to verify the information in the adverts. I'm baffled as to what you think of this is "pure rubbish". I'm not offering any personal opinion on sex or gender so perhaps you misread my comment.
Lord, I HOPE the tide turns soon!
Like Helen Joyce, I am a dead-boring plain vanilla heterosexual.
And I REALLY wish I could wave a magic wand and make women as strong as men. Life would be so much better. But it’s not ever gonna bloody happen.
Have you considered you're just a boring person and it has nothing to do with heterosexuality or women's strength?
You being a piece of soggy bread is a you problem only.
Another great interview with Helen Joyce. Thank you.
Helen is fantastic, I've cant disagree with anything she says.
Shes so clever and articulate on this matter.
liked before ive even listened! 👀 that's how confident i am in Helen's logic and eloquence!
Hahahaha! During the conversation about sexualities I was thinking this was starting to sound like Metal Genres, and at 45 minutes that's exactly what the interviewer came up with. Good job!
As someone who used to call themselves progressive let me advise any other leftist who is concerned about these things to take the allies where you can get them. The unfortunate truth is that right now conservatives are carrying the rationality football. We can all tear each other apart over details later. Right now, we should draw the line between those who have a coherent concept of reality and those who don't. This is not the only issue where that distinction is the primary factor.
This may be too broad a stroke, but you don’t have to squint too hard to see how both traditionally masculine & feminine traits and identities have been (at least somewhat) marginalized over the last few decades….this seemed to start in academia (feminist/critical theory) & has had a slow/steady march into our institutions and popular culture….many kids/young adults see the Trans/Fantasy spectrum as an intuitively easier way to fashion an identity/role.
Really enjoyed this conversation. Most entertaining.
Thanks for the snarky qualifier at the beginning. Seriously, I am so sick of the endless qualifiers that creators use at the beginning of videos as trigger warnings for those that believe the world should be molded entirely to suit their needs and wants. I, for one, am ready to graduate from emotional kindergarten and find out what the adults are talking about, when they're 'allowed' to talk and not drowned out by screaming children. When you've found your world view narrows to a pin point and that you are becoming more reactive and more and more childish and immature not less, then maybe it's time to reverse the process and recognize that an ever broadening perspective is a more humanizing space and the key of happiness, not a ever limiting one that demands others be policed into compliance.
I agree with her position on sex realism etc, but I do have to take umbrage with statements such as "if these women were men they'd be CEOs."
99% of men aren't CEOs either so it isn't about taking time out to have kids, it is about the level of sacrifice you are willing to make to attain that position. It is a patently absurd - and frankly quite sexist - position to take because it works on the premise that ALL men should therefore be CEOs because they don't bear children. Obviously they are not all CEOs, so there's clearly a problem with the premise.
Indeed. A lot of the women pushing back against trans ideology are also strong feminists. They may be temporary allies of Conservatives on the trans issue but it is a mistake to think that they have softened their positions regarding men at all.
It's 2023 not 2018, no respect for anyone who refers to a man as she anymore.
I see a disproportionate number of views to likes and comments. Is it that people are genuinely afraid to comment on this?
No but stamps are amazing 😂😂😂 love it! Helen Joyce is fabulous
All female spaces should have have a sign outside "No penises allowed,;"penam erectam non scientamc habet""
Then it's OK for castrated men to enter their spaces?
Thank you for speaking the truth, and in the best way i ever heard! 🙂🤗👍🏻 I am sorry that I hadnt heard of neither you, or your book, before I saw your interwiev on Triggernometry! I love the way you are presenning the argument too…! Its so to the point, and its easy to follow…in all this craziness that goes on. Thank you so much for beeing sucha wonderfull Voice of reason! 🙂 I have gotten my self a new hero, and, I am so off to the bookstore to get your book! The podcast are really good too! Sorry to say, that wasnew to me also, but I have, obviously, subscribed now!👍🏻 All the best from Anlaug in Norway, that really wish that more people could be a little bit more like you! A great ray of truth, kindness, values, reality, real justice, courage and everything good, shining trough all the mud and identety narcissism! Thank you so much, and have a fantastic day, and a fantastic new year.
I don't want to troll, but humans with penises seem to always find a way to get what they want!!
So is trolling just a compulsion then or was it mandatory?
Since your name is Pedro I am going to assume (perhaps recklessly) that you have a penis, so in theory (specifically your theory) you should be able to get what you want, and you don't want to troll, and yet you are trolling, so you didn't get what you want despite having a penis! That's a bit paradoxical.
100%
Ps: it's not trolling if it's true! 😁
Please be more precise: SOME humans with penises...
Billions killed in wars
Yes some women were also but nothing on the scale
Swap you the vote for going over the top in WW1
Or any ear
Men down coal pits
Not many ladies waiting for a shot
Men out in oil rigs
Giirls not so much
To the interviewer, maybe you should begin by challenging your perception that conservatives are automatically insert whatever-phobic here. Conservatives have certain values you may or may not agree with but if anything comes out of the trans debate it should be that “progress” isn’t always positive. Traditional doesn’t always mean oppressive. If you want freedom of ideas you need to allow for varying perspectives without outright dismissal based on political persuasion.
I have some conservative valued and some not so conservative values. I like to listen to all sides. This ideology is insane though and we need sanity back.
Great interview, thank you.
Why are so many people so averse to being called names? The saying "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me" seems to have been forgotten. I advise that people take the name-calling in stride and stick to their principles.
Because some can lose a job over this in some workplaces. It's still fine to call a woman a b*ch in the workplace, among other things, but say one thing remotely against trans-people, you risk losing your job.
There is a view that if someone labels you and you don't reject it, then you have accepted the label. If person A says person B is a Conservative, and person B doesn't disagree, then person C will likely assume that person B is in fact a Conservative. People don't like being called names because names stick.
term: trans exclusionary radical male.
Knowledgeable and so very easy to listen too. Another excellent interview
I think my favorite is "cake gender". Supposedly such people are light and fluffy. I have to wonder whether they have fondant for brains.
I identify as invisible. Pronouns who/where.
@@wolfhugs2221😅
Excellent. Thank you 🙏 ❤
Man: Adult, Human, Male.
Woman: Adult, Human, Female.
An adult male dog is not a man, a human male who is not an adult is not a man, an adult human who is not a male is not a man.
An adult female dog is not a woman, a human female who is not an adult is not a woman, an adult human who is not female is not a woman.
That's how you define it. That's it. Three criteria, two of them overlapping, the third defining the difference between them.
The first two statements are clearly hate crimes. The subsequent statements are not yet on the statute books, but we are working on it.
Excellent interviewer, Jonathan.
Ms Jackson could have responded that historically a woman has been thought of as an adult human female but now many laws have been passed that also include "transgender women" who were born as males but identified as women in that class . Wouldn't that have been better than how she did react ? It seems like she she wasn't very well prepared for her hearing .
And extremely rude and aggressive
Ok, just for the record, she's an Irish journalist. She just lives in Britain.
18:00 Fucking hell, I did not know about that. Those therapists are supposed to KNOW how the human psyche works, women will almost NEVER confront a crossdresser in their space. Crossdressers are inherently creepy, so our first instinct is basically to keep our head down and flee. Sure, there are tough ladies out there who would confront them. But a 14yo girl, or even a young woman in her twenties?
I like to think I would be brave enough to confront a dude in my space, but ... our instinct is to NOT piss off someone who is bigger, stronger.
Exactly. The reason women don't say anything is not because they're OK!
Gametes,gametes,gametes.
Im starting a gamete appreciation society GAS. Gametes are being erased. Gametes of the world unite!
Oh I hope so. Also, Helen is great.
Brilliant discussion.
We'll its all the right's been fixated on, to the point where they uncritically embrace academic feminism and call that dissident.
Fantastic interview!
@24:40 -- _"These things are so stupid that it's hard to believe that there are any adults who believe them."_ 😅🤣
Yes
Awesome backdrop you guys got there
It's not conversion therapy, it's coercion therapy
I hope so.
Enough of the ridiculousness.
Enough of the denial of truth, facts, science and biology.
Enough of the denouncement of anyone who tells the truth.
Good to know Ms Joyce liked Tolkien.
Good lord. We're seeing more and more that everything beyond the act that makes babies is a madhouse. Heading straight into proving the medieval theologians right.... the hard way.
41:30 the answer to that question is yes, & that’s obviously what’s up.
She looks happy.
Let's hope so helen ✌
Great interview. Any reason that there's four plus minutes of nothing at the end of the video?
Yes, in the interests of fairness four minutes were reserved for the T-ideology response.
Ah yes! 4 minutes of 'no debate' is more than enough in an intelligent society.
@@markkavanagh7377
Democracy decides things through debate, discussion, diplomacy and voting.
Authoritarianism decides things and then imposes those decisions, refusing to debate/discuss, punishing & silencing & criminalising dissent
Yep.
Let's hope this is the year when that echo chamber implodes.
Almost fun to see them work so hard to maintain it; JK Rowling gets good press, then Pinknews swings back with a fiction about her 'trans-hatred'.
It would all be so comadic if kids weren't being mutilated and sterilised, nor women being bullied.
Those four minutes, are all their very best arguments, for why anyone can be any gender. 😄
Why is this episode not on Spotify?
If I were a TERF (which I'm not) I would take the label as a compliment.
Great discussion, but they didn't tackle the question in the title.
The gender identity movement reminds me of the hippie and Hare Krishna movements of the 1960s.
"they're really boring and shitty ones" huzzah!
There seem to be a lot of trans women (born male) who say they are lesbian. I’m curious as to whether there are similar numbers of trans men (born female) who say they are gay (attracted to men), and do they get harassment on dating sites if they say they are only looking for biological men? Or do gay men get harassed if they say they only want to date biological men? In other words, is it only the ask that someone be a biological woman that is deemed offensive?
I hate the use of "-phobia" as a condemnatory epithet. It is a severe affliction for those who suffer it. To use it as a boo-word is stigmatising mental ill-health. If you want to condemn people for their attitude, use a different word. Be creative.
I never used it (even though there are some men, often closeted gay themselves, who just cannot forgive openly gay men). I always used *gay-hating/woman-hating person* and so on. The people that hate trans-identified people, hate them because they think they are all gay. There's no such thing as transphobia.
@@richardtompson318 people don't hate trans, people hate what is done to them and what trans do to others.
Venus De Milo, was noted for her charms, but strictly between us, you're cuter than Venus, and what's more you got arms!
The so called gender terminology is hilarious. Very much on par with Psychiatric DSM “diagnoses” which is quite ironic. And they call “crazy” people whose communications they don’t understand “word salad.” 😂
Thank you for sharing this delightful conversation.
Did she really say being sterile removes the possibility of an orgasm?
Puberty blockers followed by opposite sex hormones prevents the development of sexual function, so no fertility & no ability to orgasm
What has the Economist got against the name 'UK'?
Quillotré: do you like progressive house music?😊
Trans widows, that is, ex-wives of cross-dressing men, must be included in the analyses. We've experienced the medical malpractice as adults--Ute Heggen youtube channel for details.
Science is becoming a social construct. I am studying the gender fluid gametes .They are
Inbetween male and female called speggs(sperm snd eggs,) I use the science of speggstroscopy.!
I also study CAT GENDER =,CRYPTO AUTOGYNEPHILLIC TRANSMISOGONY IN MY SPARE TIME.
Great but ads every 5 mins!!
Get TH-cam premium.
Paradox institute videos explain SEX BINARY ALSO COLIN WRIGHT BIOLOGIST.
Perhaps, we should give them a different category for documentation TS on birth, driver lic. Passport, period. We acknowledged bio&gender. Have Unisex & own jail/spaces. They are Not & Will Never be the Sex they "Trans" to; a Fact.
Short answer: no. It's just the right wing adopting left-wing language to push the same old lies
What lies
Lol, I've voted left for 35 years and still know that no woman has a penis
I actually did come across a trans woman at a Victoria secret changing room in about 2001 I think. My friend and I were trying some things on and came out of our respective rooms to get one another’s opinions and there she was. Quite frankly it was her that looked terrified. She was off in a corner kind of minding her own business but we could see her reflection in the mirror. It was obvious she was afraid we would say something or complain to management. At the time I actually felt really badly for her. I wanted to assure her somehow that it was fine but I was only about 19 and I really didn’t know how to approach the situation. Would I offend her if I acknowledged the situation? We didn’t say anything and just pretended not to notice. This was long before all that is going on now. I’d never heard the term transphobic and wasn’t even aware I might be labeled as such if I had a problem with her presence. I quite naturally had no problem with it. I do take issue with some of the things that are going on in the trans movement. Labeling people bigots because of sexual orientation and biological men competing against biological women in sports to name a few. But I’m sorry, I still don’t think pervs are habitually throwing dresses on and perving out in women’s bathrooms and changing rooms.
@ascent
Really a man dressed as a women in an underwear looked a bit sheepish in the changing room when spotted by some girls
Just wanted left alone
Looked nervous about being there
Come on you ain’t that daft
in USA using 'pervs' to label transvestites ,or men wearing female attire, is pejorative
You want to know why you had no problem with him? Because he looked pathetic and you didn't understand what was going on.
Completely different situation nowadays where they'll get up in your face and scream at you because the ones that are going in women's spaces are perverted narcs.
Naked men should not be in women's changing rooms. That is what is going on now, and they are protected by law in many places. If women complain, they are dismissed or asked to leave.
@ascent8487
Well perhaps you need to listen to women bc the stories are plentiful of “pervs” invading women’s spaces. They big foot their ways into groups about menstruation, menopause, & even miscarriages!! Women who’ve experienced devastating losses are forced to have these ghouls sit in & experience euphoria bc they’re in women’s most intimate spaces!!
If it were possible for somebody to be born in the wrong body, would that person be disabled?.
Well there's no such thing as the wrong body though, you are born in the body you have and you may develop mental illness that perpetuates your perception of societal roles and insecurities about your own body, which we all go through.
Difference is most of us grow out of it compared to the ill.
Ignorance is thick and dies hard in bigoted brains but truth and love always win. Helen, what you are doing, is ruining relationships with your family and friends and reality and compassion. You can’t
destroy reality but you can hide it long enough to hurt a lot of people, including yourself.
The trans movement is destroying reality.
@@Tawny593anyone defending it hasn't thought through the consequences. Also, there's a disturbing lack of knowledge of science within the trans movement.
I’m older and sometimes don’t say the right thing… correct pronoun… etc… but I’m a string ally and make a point to try.
I used to be a string ally but I got all tangled up and began to unravel so now I'm a frayed knot.
An ally of whom ? Women and girls, feminists or trans people ?
Joyce is simply upset that her feminist orthodoxy is not being adhered to. She has just as much contempt for men as the average feminist academician. It's a civil war within the ideology and I refuse to take a side
…what?
Where do you get that??? I see no contempt for men.
@@evesapple It's so bold of you to openly display your cluelessness
@@margaretwinson402 Of course, you don't see it #gynocentrism
@annarboriter what kind of answer is that? If what you say is true, I need to know.
I clicked on the video wondering how someone could fill fifty minutes with transphobic rhetoric; apparently they only managed to do so by being ignorant about non binary people with autism spectrum disorder and asexual people. For all their talk about science and evidence, you’d think they’d look into what everything meant before they showed themselves up like that.
You are the one showing yourself up. Whataboutism is so boring just like trans ideology boring
@bobbykneale4416
No one is afraid (phobia) we simply don’t want to engage in your vast game of pretend.
There is no such thing as a non-binary human, unless they're a rare genetic abnormality. And people can't be gender fluid. No one is going to look at their bones decades later and say, "Looks like a female but tomorrow it could be male."