Thanks Jim, appreciate the overview. Any thoughts on ON1 vs. EXCIRE SEARCH? I use LR to manage my photos and I think it would be tough to use ON1 to get those keywords into my LR catalog.
Hi Harry and good question, and I am not sure how well (or if) On1 and LR will work together in this regard. If you already have your catalog in LR and use Excire Search, then there is no reason to change. You can use On1 Effects as an external editor from LR (assuming you have the plugin version) which gives you a lot of great tools to complement what you do in LR already.
If you run the Excire Search Lightroom plugin, not the standalone, and have your Lightroom catalog set to write metadata changes to .xmp files then On1 will pick up any keywords added by Excire. The good thing about this approach is that the keyword remain in the hierarchy under a top level Keyword of 'Excire' which keeps them neatly separated from any manual keyword structure and which can be collapsed to avoid clutter. As I have Adobe subscription mostly for Photoshop no cost to have Lightroom and run new photos through that for Excire keywording before opening On1 for the rest of the keywording etc. Any keywords that are assigned in On1 can be picked up by Lightroom once one synchronises the folder they are in, I think this is default but may need to check the preference to save On1 sidecars to ensure .xmp files are updated. So once you choose to add a Keyword AI suggested keyword to standard keywords and synchronise the folder in Lightroom it will be picked up. So On1 and Excire Search in Lightroom work well together. The standalone Excire application is not so good as it does not export the hierarchy in format that On1 can pick up, so get long flat list of keywords.
Thanks for the excellent demo. As someone who does no keyword tagging today, getting a bunch of keyword tagging with zero effort sounds pretty great, even if it’s not 100% perfect. I wonder if the release version will be able to do that neat trick that Excire does, where it can find images of the same person based on facial features…
thanks much Joe and good question, not sure it will be as advanced as Excire upon launch but if you are already using On1 it may be good enough, and will surely expand in scope over time (that's my guess at least)
Quite useful to me Jim because you touched on both this feature's current capabilities AND limitations. This helps me make a sufficiently informed opinion about it aimed at deciding about my need/want for it. Thank you very much.
Interesting and helpful but not sure how good it would be with the photos I take. Over the weekend I took pictures at an air show, arboretum, and two different horse race tracks. Now I'm sure it would identify a plane, horse, etc but I've been spending most of my time identifying things like the aircraft name, type, and specific id, and with the horses, I'm trying to get things like its name, jockeys name and other specific information about the horse. Not sure how specific the keywords will become in identifying the specifics. It does keywords things that I've never thought about doing.
Hi Jeffrey and yes it does not cover everything we need, so in situations like yours I can see it may not help a lot, since you would have a lot of photos of airplanes or horses. So those two keywords wouldn't really help in that case. But maybe it helps with search in some ways, allowing you to find something specific in less time. I guess you will have to see how it works for you once you get it (assuming you are getting it). Thanks for watching.
@@JimNix Thanks for the reply. I currently use LR for most everything and I have Photo Machnic but haven't got that into my workflow yes. I'm currently looking into using On1, Neo, or some other program to help with my processing.
@@jss27560 I have heard good things about Photo Mechanic but have never used it. But I use Luminar and On1 a lot and love them both. Either one is a great choice. Thanks.
I am curious how long On1 will take to achieve that accuracy. As you say, it is version 1 and we all hope this won't become an app which does a lot of things but all in a mediocre way. I trust ON 1 team but, only time remains to be seen. Thanks Jim
It is pretty accurate on a lot of things but not all, but since it is still beta that is expected. I don't think any tool will ever be perfect. I think this is a good start and it will only get better over time. Even so, there are so many other things in On1 that are amazing that I don't mind if this one is good but not great. Thanks for watching Jose.
If you are using ON1 with catalogued folders then there is an option to have Keyword AI scan catalogued folders and add keywords to its internal database. May take a while on the intial run but after this you can search the AI Keywords inside On1 by using its Advanced Search for Everything. Does not automatically assign keywords to photos so these will not be visible to other programs like Lightroom. On1 have made the decision not to automatically assign AI keywords to avoid upsetting users who already have well organised keyword structure.
What I would like to be able to do is select particular AI keywords and have ON1 populate these whenever it comes across them in a scan. So every time it finds a "fluvial landform of streams" in my photos, it will tag it automatically for me!
One thing that might hold back both On1 and Excire search getting really accurate is that they run the recognition on your computer and don't upload photos to cloud for remote processing, On1 make this very clear. So will not want to overload computers with both processing and storing the machine learning models. Excire have been focusing on keyword generation for some time but still they have problems. Apparently the cute little tabby kitten I had a photo off was really a tiger! I am also in the 2023 beta testing group and one thing that could be an issue with On1's approach is that all its keywords are at one level so if one adds a lot to different images the keyword list would get long. It is also coming up with some very interesting keywords. One of my image was keyworded "macropodidae". After Googling I found that this was actually correct but Keyword AI was hedging its bet on whether it was a kangaroo or a wallaby, both of which are members of the macropodidae family, even if I don't use the keyword I have learnt something.
Yes true and nice to have a tiger around! 😁 I too have found some interesting keywords, like on the stream in this video. A few other examples as well, but I doubt I will ever come up with macropodidae since I have never taken any photos of one. But yeah on animals I can see that happening, like on the bird in this video. It was super specific and I assume it was accurate (and it was per one viewers' comment). Thanks for all the contributions here.
On the fluvial landform of streams... interesting but I would never use that to search. I would use water, stream, river, etc. Surprised it didn't have "water". And are people going to search for "Architecture" or "building" - I would search building. Wondering if these should be more layman terms... And yes, that is an Old World Flycatcher - amazing!!!!
yes true about water, good point - I personally do use architecture quite a lot actually...maybe others do too - and wow on the bird that is pretty amazing!
Thanks Jim for a run through of another topic coming in ON1 Photo 23. Although seems quite good I'm sure it will be refined over time. It certainly helps to take the chore out of keywording.
Hello Jim, Jose from Puerto Rico. I just subscribed to your channel because I found this video awesome. I'm on the fence on buying this software and I have a question. Would you consider this a viable substitute for Lightroom, or do you work in conjunction to Adobe's product? I use Lightroom mainly to catalog and by what I see in this video, you seem to be illustrating one. But A.I. is definitely making an impact on Photography lately, and your demo clearly shows it here. This was wonderful stuff, man!
thanks Jose and yes this is a totally viable alternative to LR - it has a great catalog and print module and loads of tools, masks, etc as well - I don't really use LR anymore to be honest, as I prefer to edit in On1, Luminar and Topaz most of the time
Hey Jim, try a photo that you and I both know to be "clown vomit" edited and see if Keyword AI comes up with any keywords specific to "clown vomit." 😂🤡😂(Will you be adding keywords to your images now that you see what Keyword AI does?)
LOL I don't think the AI is trained with my slang yet but maybe some day 😁and yes I do think I will use this tool in my On1 catalog, no reason not to really
Well I purchased it, and I am glad I did a couple small folders of exported photos. I wasted 39 bucks, it saw a water fall as a dairy cow, a paper clip as scissors, a balloon as food on and on. The developer last week was telling people to run their Lightroom catalog through it. If I listened to him I would have a mess in my photos, this AI stuff is just a buzz word
To me, the bird looks like a Robin (very common) - not a Flycatcher. The program probably looked at the beak shape to identify type. It all looks very interesting and you have ably demonstrated it and stressed it is Beta, which is fair. Lots of holes in this at present - more than a lump of Swiss cheese, which you have shown, which are inexplicable (the seascape shots come to mind immediately). If I'm wrong I'll be the 1st to put my hands up, but my gut says this isn't going to work very well unfortunately.
Hi Roger and hope you are well. I think it does a reasonably good job on a lot of photos but of course not all of them. It's also v1 which will only get better over time. And if you are already using On1 then it feels like a no-brainer to use this feature. But considering all the other amazing tools in On1, it is totally ok with me if this one is good but not perfect. Thanks for watching!
Thanks Jim, appreciate the overview. Any thoughts on ON1 vs. EXCIRE SEARCH? I use LR to manage my photos and I think it would be tough to use ON1 to get those keywords into my LR catalog.
Hi Harry and good question, and I am not sure how well (or if) On1 and LR will work together in this regard. If you already have your catalog in LR and use Excire Search, then there is no reason to change. You can use On1 Effects as an external editor from LR (assuming you have the plugin version) which gives you a lot of great tools to complement what you do in LR already.
@@JimNix Thanks Jim
If you run the Excire Search Lightroom plugin, not the standalone, and have your Lightroom catalog set to write metadata changes to .xmp files then On1 will pick up any keywords added by Excire. The good thing about this approach is that the keyword remain in the hierarchy under a top level Keyword of 'Excire' which keeps them neatly separated from any manual keyword structure and which can be collapsed to avoid clutter. As I have Adobe subscription mostly for Photoshop no cost to have Lightroom and run new photos through that for Excire keywording before opening On1 for the rest of the keywording etc.
Any keywords that are assigned in On1 can be picked up by Lightroom once one synchronises the folder they are in, I think this is default but may need to check the preference to save On1 sidecars to ensure .xmp files are updated. So once you choose to add a Keyword AI suggested keyword to standard keywords and synchronise the folder in Lightroom it will be picked up.
So On1 and Excire Search in Lightroom work well together.
The standalone Excire application is not so good as it does not export the hierarchy in format that On1 can pick up, so get long flat list of keywords.
Thanks for the excellent demo. As someone who does no keyword tagging today, getting a bunch of keyword tagging with zero effort sounds pretty great, even if it’s not 100% perfect. I wonder if the release version will be able to do that neat trick that Excire does, where it can find images of the same person based on facial features…
thanks much Joe and good question, not sure it will be as advanced as Excire upon launch but if you are already using On1 it may be good enough, and will surely expand in scope over time (that's my guess at least)
Yes, would LOVE that ability...
Quite useful to me Jim because you touched on both this feature's current capabilities AND limitations. This helps me make a sufficiently informed opinion about it aimed at deciding about my need/want for it. Thank you very much.
thank you for watching Andre!
Interesting and helpful but not sure how good it would be with the photos I take. Over the weekend I took pictures at an air show, arboretum, and two different horse race tracks. Now I'm sure it would identify a plane, horse, etc but I've been spending most of my time identifying things like the aircraft name, type, and specific id, and with the horses, I'm trying to get things like its name, jockeys name and other specific information about the horse. Not sure how specific the keywords will become in identifying the specifics. It does keywords things that I've never thought about doing.
Hi Jeffrey and yes it does not cover everything we need, so in situations like yours I can see it may not help a lot, since you would have a lot of photos of airplanes or horses. So those two keywords wouldn't really help in that case. But maybe it helps with search in some ways, allowing you to find something specific in less time. I guess you will have to see how it works for you once you get it (assuming you are getting it). Thanks for watching.
@@JimNix Thanks for the reply. I currently use LR for most everything and I have Photo Machnic but haven't got that into my workflow yes. I'm currently looking into using On1, Neo, or some other program to help with my processing.
@@jss27560 I have heard good things about Photo Mechanic but have never used it. But I use Luminar and On1 a lot and love them both. Either one is a great choice. Thanks.
Hey Jim, nice demo of Keyword AI. Once you assign keywords, and you want to search by keyword, does it only search through the current folder?
I am curious how long On1 will take to achieve that accuracy. As you say, it is version 1 and we all hope this won't become an app which does a lot of things but all in a mediocre way. I trust ON 1 team but, only time remains to be seen.
Thanks Jim
It is pretty accurate on a lot of things but not all, but since it is still beta that is expected. I don't think any tool will ever be perfect. I think this is a good start and it will only get better over time. Even so, there are so many other things in On1 that are amazing that I don't mind if this one is good but not great. Thanks for watching Jose.
Nice coverage of this feature. I don't use keywords, but am looking forward to getting my copy of PR 2023.
thanks for watching Leon and you should have it pretty soon!
Can this do more than one photo at a time? I have 10's of thousands of photos. Or is this just to make it easier when you are editing each photo?
Yes you can highlight multiple photos and ran them all at the same time. Thanks.
If you are using ON1 with catalogued folders then there is an option to have Keyword AI scan catalogued folders and add keywords to its internal database. May take a while on the intial run but after this you can search the AI Keywords inside On1 by using its Advanced Search for Everything. Does not automatically assign keywords to photos so these will not be visible to other programs like Lightroom. On1 have made the decision not to automatically assign AI keywords to avoid upsetting users who already have well organised keyword structure.
@@datstheone1 Thank you
@@datstheone1 you always provide such detailed, helpful responses here - thanks so much for contributing!
What I would like to be able to do is select particular AI keywords and have ON1 populate these whenever it comes across them in a scan. So every time it finds a "fluvial landform of streams" in my photos, it will tag it automatically for me!
One thing that might hold back both On1 and Excire search getting really accurate is that they run the recognition on your computer and don't upload photos to cloud for remote processing, On1 make this very clear. So will not want to overload computers with both processing and storing the machine learning models. Excire have been focusing on keyword generation for some time but still they have problems. Apparently the cute little tabby kitten I had a photo off was really a tiger!
I am also in the 2023 beta testing group and one thing that could be an issue with On1's approach is that all its keywords are at one level so if one adds a lot to different images the keyword list would get long. It is also coming up with some very interesting keywords. One of my image was keyworded "macropodidae". After Googling I found that this was actually correct but Keyword AI was hedging its bet on whether it was a kangaroo or a wallaby, both of which are members of the macropodidae family, even if I don't use the keyword I have learnt something.
Yes true and nice to have a tiger around! 😁 I too have found some interesting keywords, like on the stream in this video. A few other examples as well, but I doubt I will ever come up with macropodidae since I have never taken any photos of one. But yeah on animals I can see that happening, like on the bird in this video. It was super specific and I assume it was accurate (and it was per one viewers' comment). Thanks for all the contributions here.
On the fluvial landform of streams... interesting but I would never use that to search. I would use water, stream, river, etc. Surprised it didn't have "water". And are people going to search for "Architecture" or "building" - I would search building. Wondering if these should be more layman terms...
And yes, that is an Old World Flycatcher - amazing!!!!
yes true about water, good point - I personally do use architecture quite a lot actually...maybe others do too - and wow on the bird that is pretty amazing!
Thanks Jim for a run through of another topic coming in ON1 Photo 23. Although seems quite good I'm sure it will be refined over time. It certainly helps to take the chore out of keywording.
thanks much Ken and yep a big time saver for sure!
Hello Jim, Jose from Puerto Rico. I just subscribed to your channel because I found this video awesome. I'm on the fence on buying this software and I have a question. Would you consider this a viable substitute for Lightroom, or do you work in conjunction to Adobe's product? I use Lightroom mainly to catalog and by what I see in this video, you seem to be illustrating one. But A.I. is definitely making an impact on Photography lately, and your demo clearly shows it here. This was wonderful stuff, man!
thanks Jose and yes this is a totally viable alternative to LR - it has a great catalog and print module and loads of tools, masks, etc as well - I don't really use LR anymore to be honest, as I prefer to edit in On1, Luminar and Topaz most of the time
Hey Jim, try a photo that you and I both know to be "clown vomit" edited and see if Keyword AI comes up with any keywords specific to "clown vomit." 😂🤡😂(Will you be adding keywords to your images now that you see what Keyword AI does?)
LOL I don't think the AI is trained with my slang yet but maybe some day 😁and yes I do think I will use this tool in my On1 catalog, no reason not to really
Well I purchased it, and I am glad I did a couple small folders of exported photos. I wasted 39 bucks, it saw a water fall as a dairy cow, a paper clip as scissors, a balloon as food on and on. The developer last week was telling people to run their Lightroom catalog through it. If I listened to him I would have a mess in my photos, this AI stuff is just a buzz word
To me, the bird looks like a Robin (very common) - not a Flycatcher. The program probably looked at the beak shape to identify type. It all looks very interesting and you have ably demonstrated it and stressed it is Beta, which is fair. Lots of holes in this at present - more than a lump of Swiss cheese, which you have shown, which are inexplicable (the seascape shots come to mind immediately). If I'm wrong I'll be the 1st to put my hands up, but my gut says this isn't going to work very well unfortunately.
Hi Roger and hope you are well. I think it does a reasonably good job on a lot of photos but of course not all of them. It's also v1 which will only get better over time. And if you are already using On1 then it feels like a no-brainer to use this feature. But considering all the other amazing tools in On1, it is totally ok with me if this one is good but not perfect. Thanks for watching!