Glass marbles work great for taking up space in the container. This lets you use less product and still have the part submerged. The marbles are impervious to most chemicals you find in a shop. I have an evaporust/metal rescue tank with a bunch of marbles in it that i kind of push the part down into.
Genius! Marbles having extremely low volumetric stacking efficiency but also having no edges or corners to hinder submersion or solution contact makes this is an AWESOME idea. I'm going to have to tell this to my brother whom often uses evap-o-rust. Especially as expensive as that stuff it. it's always best to have a container that closely matches the dimensions of the part but how often, in the real world, does that ever happen?
@@Shane-Singleton Hey I like tech tips. I got rust off a vertical surface (spot on an inner fender) By brushing on the evapo-rust ,and then putting a piece of saran wrap over it. Came back the next day and it was still wet but had a little rust. I did it one more time and it was good.
@@Shane-Singleton I was using that , but it didn't seem to work as good as the evapo-rust. You can do the same for the naval jelly too, cover it ,and it keeps it from drying up. Another good product is por-15 metal ready. I've coated a bare panel with it and left it out in the unheated shop for months without rusting up. I'm not sure if evapo-rust is like that, where it leaves a phosphate coating. The metal ready eats rust , but if it dries it leaves a protective coating. Haha , TBH, now I can't remember if i used the wrap over metal ready or evapo-rust because I use both 🤣🤣
Insta Black is a room temp coating of copper selenium which is the same as gun blue touch up. It is not a hot black oxide process such as MIL-DTL-13924 Black Oxide with all the hydrogen embritlement problems on harden steel that process has. It is very thin and the sealer used is the key to longer life.
Thanks! Very informative. Just got a batch of the 333 for a project I'm working on. Nice to see how it was done, instead of just reading the instructions.
I wish i would have found you 3 years ago. I had cast iron rails attached to my steps and porch. The bottom legs that are bolted into the concrete are not only rusting, but leave a terrible looking rust stain near the contact points. Maybe next spring I can someway make a dunking station and use your product.
You'll need something more robust, if you want to keep it outside. This might work if you soak the part in some cosmoline afterwards, but otherwise an acid bath and powder coating will be necessary.
More vids ! Redline Rebuild is by far the best Hagerty series. Not only do I personally not watch any of the others...Redline Rebuild with Davin is my fav vid series on all of TH-cam!
Glad I saw this one. EPI is literally 15 min from me! I am going to give it a try on some parts this summer, I will post videos of the parts processing and follow up and durability, etc. on our TH-cam channel.
After cleaning, etching and surface prep you could move straight to the sealer to keep the grey cast. Seen that done and the parts turned out awesome grey cast as well as having the black oxide applied.
Make sure to use distilled water for your dilution and your rinse. Especially if you have well/hard water. The iron in your hard water will effect the final finish.
I always thought I was stuck having pale connecting rods. Thanks to this video, I will be able to have dark connecting rods, just like the cool kids. Thanks Haggerty! 2021 is going to be awesome!
Alotta shits made there. I lived in Cleveland for 12yrs or so, and for some reason now I check where an item is made. It's amazing how much stuff xo es out of there , and the rest of the rust belt.
definitely looks like a process similar to cold bluing. Basically what you're doing is you're creating your own oxide coating so that iron oxide (rust) can't get to the bare metal. The end result finish almost looks like parkerizing. Very cool. I'd be interested, though, to know if the etch part of the process has a negative effect on your wrist pin mating surfaces. I was concerned about the rod journals as well but those are going to have a bearing in there so hopefully the surface being micro-porous shouldn't be an issue.
If the dimensions don't change drastically, I'd imagine micro-pores would be great for the wrist pin journals because they'll hold a lot more oil than a polished surface. Polished metal is bad at holding onto lube oil, and that's why machine ways are scraped in instead of surface ground.
Interesting video. When I was restoring my 64 Falcon Sprint I was trying to match the coating used on some of the body bolts and ended up using gun bluing and it was very close.
If similar hot black oxide is good for firearms it's good for anything that gets coated in oil. Hagerty's price guide is great, now I know about how much my Camaro SS is worth.
I did find it very informative, thank you!Entertaining as well. I would like to do a stainless steel motorcycle exhaust pipe with this finish. I am afraid that I would use too much of the cleaning product to get the fouling off the pipe. How do you think this should be tackled? I do not have access to a parts dip bath. Can you think of another alternative to achieve it? Thank you
Cerakoting is very easy I do a lot of my bolts and parts in it if you don’t want the hassle of baking it on just use the air dry stuff it takes about 5 days to completely harden.
You are right about that! And we typically get a bunch of our stuff treated at West Michigan Cerakote. Like Davin mentioned in the beginning of the video, we would normally send something like the oil plug in for a ceramic coating along with a bunch of other parts. We are huge fans of cerakote!
Hagerty yeah it’s great stuff I wouldn’t ever do any internal parts but external stuff even headers work great with it. Can’t wait to see the Buick straight 8 get done!
Wow !! Dude!! That was a very informative tutorial !!! I want to say thank you for your time and effort because it’s a great tip for me and I’ll tell ya why,, I’ve been makin fixed blade knives for a few years now and have really struggled with producing a finish on the blade for rust protection!! I’ve tried ferric chloride , hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid with some success but it’s never a 100% !! There’s always a spot or patch or the tint isn’t consistent but I think your black oxide will get the job done !! I can’t wait to try it !!! The steel I use is 1095 HC no stainless yet because I can’t heat treat stainless, yet !! Thanks again man !! I really think the sealer will give the blade a sheen on the finished part that will just pop !!! Thank You !!!
Wouldn't a connecting rod stay oily enough in a crankcase environment to prevent rust? Cool video though. I can definitely think of some parts that would benefit from this such as mechanical clutch linkages exposed to under-car environment.
Never thought of that. Great for a collector car that doesn't get started much. As far as coatings go not for inside of a engine I have used KBS and POR. I'm still on the fence on witch one is better. What do you think? Thanks for all your videos.
Great video. This is interesting to me to get a non paint non powder coat finish. I will check further but does this work on stainless and/or aluminum? Thanks.
You know what works really well for all around rust stoppage? Rustoleum Rust Reformer spray paint. Not kidding I've sprayed it directly on a lightly rusted truck panel and underneath on the rusty suspension and the rust never came back . Wouldn't use it on connecting rods but honestly don't see why connecting rods need rust prevention anyway.
Always good to find something that works for your project! The key part of this process, with the rods in particular, is that you're not adding a measurable coating to the outside and therefore won't have issues with fitment or with it chipping or peeling off.
Great video… thanks! Gonna do this on my 67 Cuda that you insure. Um… safety glasses? Kinda surprised … no disrespect intended my friend but getting blinded or burned would kinda suck.
Working on a 1921 Harley. I would like to coat the cylinders and the head with this Black Oxide. I need it to not rust, and hold up to normal engine heat for an air cooled engine. Will wait for your response in how to proceed. May coat the rods also. Thank you and best regards.
There is an amazing TH-cam channel called My Mechanics with a bunch of restoration possess. But he also has a second channel where he explains metal bluing which is a great way to rustproof metal without actually painting it.
I would certainly hesitate putting something like that on a connecting rod. Some chemical coatings can form a layer thick enough to mess with your clearances.
You asked - how about a overview of a complete internal/external engine coating/preservation. You did the paint on the outside of the Buick block, now we see blackening, how about property gypsol coating (however you spell that) and how to preserve bare surfaces in a motor that's going to sit ....
Say you were doing something like your rod, that might get set aside while other things are on the go (like sorting misbehaving valve guides for instance): would the old standby of wrapping them in an oily rag til you need them, prevent them rusting?
Is that an actual "gunblue" of the type used on small handtools (pliers, screwdrivers, etc.) -- i.e., black _iron_ (e.g., magnetite), or a "cosmetic" bluing (i.e., black _copper_ oxide applied to the steel)? This is important to me, and having tried a number of commercial "rust converter" type products over the years I have become more and more disillusioned, but, as the old saying goes, "hope springs eternal" and so I keep hoping that _someone_ will come up with a product that will do a quick, easy conversion to black oxide OF the _steel_ itself. I have pretty much reconciled myself to having to grit my teeth and do some rust bluing, and maybe it's not as involved as it seems, but not having the resources to buy a "production" setup to do hot salt bath bluing (or the need!), unless I can find a way to _chemically_ treat steel to create _true_ bluing I'm gonna have to do the rust bluing (or just let my late father's tools eventually rust away).
Rust bluing is about as good as it gets, if one of the hardest methods to use. There are plenty of "black oxides", but the process of creating and polishing layers of it means it's a 3d surface of rust resistance, versus a thin, mono-layer like this. True "hot-bluing" is close/on par, but involves caustic chemicals at boiling temperatures. You could probably manage, but it's a logistical nightmare of what to do with 50 gallons of toxic solution afterwards. This is a very respectable in between. This is about the height of home shop cold bluing. This process, plus maintaining an oiled surface, will do for almost all situations barring salty, corrosive, humid air.
@@ryanj610 -- I agree with respect to rust bluing. It's the _original_ type of bluing -- it converts "red oxide" (rust) which is inherently _unstable_ (there's a reason it's called "cancer" and also for axioms like "rust never sleeps") -- into "black oxide" which _is_ stable (will NOT "spread" like _red_ oxide). As I understand it, oxygen is liberated from the boiling water, then combined with the red rust on the surface of the steel (the process beginning with a coat of acid to promote rapid rust formation), and then the "loose" material on the surface removed by brushing away with a file card -- and then, the process is repeated, over and over until the desired color is obtained. The "Brown Bess" was done with the process stopping at the brown level, others going for a deep, rich, lustrous black that I doubt any other process could rival. "Cold bluing" is strictly _cosmetic._ It's a _selenium_ compound applied to the surface, providing _no_ protection.
Which items and sizes did you purchase? Were they individually priced or all in a kit? They list a trial kit version, but not what you show…. Thank You
Hi Davin, thanks a lot for all your details and exciting project. Your program is one of the reasons we are constructing in family a workshop to fully restore our 1954 Chevy 210. I do have a question. Since your videos are watched around the Globe, would it be possible to try to see products that are common across different Countries? In the example of this specific video, it would be nearly impossible to import chemical products to my Country (Brazil). Anyway, keep inspiring us all with those great projects! I better go back now to our workshop and have the work done! All the Best! Felipe.
Would the sealer (step 4) on its own provide the corrosion resistance? Or would it not take without steps 1 & 2? I suppose what I’m asking is whether the black oxide step is actually necessary?
Step 4 is water displacing oil corrosion protection coating. It will give you the same corrosion protection on bare steel as corrosion protection over black oxide finish. Only difference, we want parts to look cool black!
@@reckowracing3342 It is not gun bluing. Gun bluing is done with a caustic solution boiling at 285-295F. This is an acidic solution that is run at room temperature. It is not as abrasive resistant as gun bluing but produces a black finish that is only ~0.000005" thick. The Insta Blak 333 needs to be rinsed well after blackening and then a sealer (oil) needs to be applied.
Black oxide can continue to work (react) in threaded holes and crevices if not 100% rinsed. After a few days you will see white powder and trails of white corrosion leaking out. The metal is continuing to be etched by the residual oxide and just like rust, will eventually chemically weld two steel parts together. The drain plug is an acceptable use for black oxide but based on my experience, the connecting rod isn't. I'd stay away from black oxiding any parts with internal threads or holes especially if they are blind. Good luck.
@@Hoaxer51 I've used several different professional coating vendors and all had the same problem with corrosion in spaces that weren't 100% rinsed. If 100% rinsed this shouldn't happen, a knowledgeable person doing it for themself may do better than a large scale automated process. Personally I won't black oxide any stressed or threaded parts.
@@RichardMichaelOwen It is correct that the Insta Blak 333 need to be completely rinsed off. It is an acidic solution that will keep reacting if not rinsed off or neutralized. If rinsing is an issue we use a rinse with sodium bicarbonate (2-4 oz/gal) to help neutralize the acid. The follow that up with a water rinse.
Not sure if it was mentioned in the video and i just missed it, but does it affect tolerances? (does the "coating" have a thickness? or is it converting the outer layer and therefore no added thickness?)
Interesting!! Thought about this type of thing recently when I was about to use a "raw" pipe fitting for a heater line. Do you know how this coating would compare to "gun blueing"?? I ended up NOT using the raw fitting so never tried the blueing.
Looks pretty similar to regular cold blueing. The degreaser and muriatic acid etchant are not really necessary if your parts are clean; just use brake cleaner. The final coating probably helps it last. Usually when you cold blue you oil the part afterwards and wipe it down a day later.
I’de like to comment that this presentation is NOT black oxide. It is a selenium based chemical plating. It is expensive compared to actual black oxide and not durable. But, it makes an attractive finish and is fast to apply. First though - Metal CLEANLINESS is paramount. Degrease with a solvent then boil in common ordinary homemade 10% sodium gluconate solution. Rinse with distilled water and then proceed to your blackening process. As to actual black oxide (magnetite) it can be obtained using traditional blackening salts (make yourself) but operated at 180-190F - not the dangerous problematic 280F. Select a glass canning jar or larger that you can seal (if no lid use an oven bag) to prevent evaporation. Place in the oven for 12 to 24 hrs. Suggest using a dedicated one such as a toaster oven.Excellent results will be obtained.
He explained it in the video, if the engine sits a long time without running then the oil runs off the bare metal part and the moisture can rust them. This coating allows the oil to stick to the metal and provide a lot more protection.
Why would you use black oxide? It wears off very quickly, zinc phosphate or manganese phosphate lasts much longer, gives a more uniform finish, won’t adhere to polished surfaces, just a better all around finish.
I assume you have a cast iron bell. I would powder coat but preferably cerakote. PC has build up so holes, threads and mounting surfaces will need to be cleaned before use. Black oxide doesn't build up either but will not have the long term corrosion resistance.
@@reelreeler8778 I mean if an engine is left sitting for years surface rust can appear on the internal parts if there has been condensation, but at that stage there are bigger issues anyway. "Blueing" external parts makes more sense.
@@reelreeler8778 no one is saying connecting rods fail due to rust. the point is a motor that will see more storage time than run time, the rods will surface rust from simple condensation. surface rust can contaminate the oil and subsequently go through the bearings. Now we certainly can debate the extent of the damage or concern, but that was the point. Actually not selling the product more discussing another use for Black oxide than just fasteners.
They have products for Steel, Stainless steel, Copper alloys, Zinc, Aluminum, Cadmium, Silver. Check their website. They have a lot of the products offered as small DIY or try it kits. I finished my solid bronze door handle with B/OX 311 Gel. Only had to buy hard top coating from Home Depot.
Why? It has no appreciable thickness, and the bearings are placed over it. There is no mechanical contact of the oxide with any moving/bearing surfaces. It will have zero impact on the bearings.
@@andoletube why? Because I didn't hear him mention anything about where NOT to use it. The rods were fine since they get bearings placed later, but I expected Davin to suggest some dos and don'ts. I could have worded my question better.
No they were in a 5-gallon bucket that had some water in it. I’ve taken them to the wire wheel and currently in the house but I’d to leave them in the barn where they’ll be used
Hydrogen embrittlement occurs during an electroplating process like Zinc Dichromate common coating on Bolts. Electroplating causes Hydrogen atoms to be absorbed by the metal thus causing fractures and weakening the material. It is prevented by heating (think annealing) the parts in a controlled manner during the plating process. Black Oxide is a chemical process that simply stains the oxide on the surface turning it gray/black. so in appearance you don't see Red rust however left unprotected ie oil or sealer it will rust. Phosphate is very similar as well and found on virtually every hood hinge through the 60s.
Its not a paint brush. Its for machining operations, brushing away shavings and chips from the part or machine. Chip brushes are a lot rougher and dont produce a good finish like a paint brush would.
Ive bought them at Harbor Freight. Im sure Tractor Supply or Northern Tool have them, or similar stores. They come in box fulls and are cheaper than real paint brushes so you can pitch them and grab a new one when they get too crusty and not stress the cost.
Victor O'Neill, Amazon has them also, bags of assorted sizes or all one size. I use them if I’m touching up some oil based paint, then just toss them when you’re done.
It’s a chip brush when used in machine work to brush chips out of the way. It’s a cheap paint brush when you use it to paint. Available in several sizes at any big box paint department. It’s a bbq brush when used to spread bbq sauce.
Good one. Funny. You would think it is stupid idea, but people blacken drill bits and CNC tool holders. Why? Appearance, just nice looking parts can get you higher margins.
Glass marbles work great for taking up space in the container. This lets you use less product and still have the part submerged. The marbles are impervious to most chemicals you find in a shop. I have an evaporust/metal rescue tank with a bunch of marbles in it that i kind of push the part down into.
thats a great idea, the only brick in the toilet tank trick.
Genius! Marbles having extremely low volumetric stacking efficiency but also having no edges or corners to hinder submersion or solution contact makes this is an AWESOME idea. I'm going to have to tell this to my brother whom often uses evap-o-rust. Especially as expensive as that stuff it. it's always best to have a container that closely matches the dimensions of the part but how often, in the real world, does that ever happen?
@@Shane-Singleton
Hey I like tech tips.
I got rust off a vertical surface (spot on an inner fender)
By brushing on the evapo-rust ,and then putting a piece of saran wrap over it.
Came back the next day and it was still wet but had a little rust.
I did it one more time and it was good.
@@MrTheHillfolk That's awesome! I wonder if naval jelly or whatever it is would work well in that instance not being able to run off as easily.
@@Shane-Singleton
I was using that , but it didn't seem to work as good as the evapo-rust.
You can do the same for the naval jelly too, cover it ,and it keeps it from drying up.
Another good product is por-15 metal ready.
I've coated a bare panel with it and left it out in the unheated shop for months without rusting up.
I'm not sure if evapo-rust is like that, where it leaves a phosphate coating.
The metal ready eats rust , but if it dries it leaves a protective coating.
Haha , TBH, now I can't remember if i used the wrap over metal ready or evapo-rust because I use both 🤣🤣
Insta Black is a room temp coating of copper selenium which is the same as gun blue touch up. It is not a hot black oxide process such as MIL-DTL-13924 Black Oxide with all the hydrogen embritlement problems on harden steel that process has. It is very thin and the sealer used is the key to longer life.
Should specify to re-polish any of the bearing surfaces at least just before installation. That oxide coating will act as a grit if left on.
Thanks! Very informative. Just got a batch of the 333 for a project I'm working on. Nice to see how it was done, instead of just reading the instructions.
I wish i would have found you 3 years ago. I had cast iron rails attached to my steps and porch. The bottom legs that are bolted into the concrete are not only rusting, but leave a terrible looking rust stain near the contact points. Maybe next spring I can someway make a dunking station and use your product.
You'll need something more robust, if you want to keep it outside. This might work if you soak the part in some cosmoline afterwards, but otherwise an acid bath and powder coating will be necessary.
More vids !
Redline Rebuild is by far the best Hagerty series.
Not only do I personally not watch any of the others...Redline Rebuild with Davin is my fav vid series on all of TH-cam!
Glad I saw this one. EPI is literally 15 min from me! I am going to give it a try on some parts this summer, I will post videos of the parts processing and follow up and durability, etc. on our TH-cam channel.
After cleaning, etching and surface prep you could move straight to the sealer to keep the grey cast. Seen that done and the parts turned out awesome grey cast as well as having the black oxide applied.
There are a lot of bits and pieces I can see this being useful for on cars as well as other projects.
Make sure to use distilled water for your dilution and your rinse. Especially if you have well/hard water. The iron in your hard water will effect the final finish.
I always thought I was stuck having pale connecting rods. Thanks to this video, I will be able to have dark connecting rods, just like the cool kids. Thanks Haggerty! 2021 is going to be awesome!
this stuff reminds me of a product I use to use years ago called Van's Instant Gun Bluing. Coincidentally they were made in Wisconsin as well...
Alotta shits made there.
I lived in Cleveland for 12yrs or so, and for some reason now I check where an item is made.
It's amazing how much stuff xo es out of there , and the rest of the rust belt.
definitely looks like a process similar to cold bluing. Basically what you're doing is you're creating your own oxide coating so that iron oxide (rust) can't get to the bare metal. The end result finish almost looks like parkerizing. Very cool. I'd be interested, though, to know if the etch part of the process has a negative effect on your wrist pin mating surfaces. I was concerned about the rod journals as well but those are going to have a bearing in there so hopefully the surface being micro-porous shouldn't be an issue.
If the dimensions don't change drastically, I'd imagine micro-pores would be great for the wrist pin journals because they'll hold a lot more oil than a polished surface. Polished metal is bad at holding onto lube oil, and that's why machine ways are scraped in instead of surface ground.
@@mannys9130 There is no dimensional change when using Insta Blak 333
Interesting video. When I was restoring my 64 Falcon Sprint I was trying to match the coating used on some of the body bolts and ended up using gun bluing and it was very close.
If similar hot black oxide is good for firearms it's good for anything that gets coated in oil. Hagerty's price guide is great, now I know about how much my Camaro SS is worth.
Love to see you rebuild a boss 429!!
I did find it very informative, thank you!Entertaining as well. I would like to do a stainless steel motorcycle exhaust pipe with this finish. I am afraid that I would use too much of the cleaning product to get the fouling off the pipe. How do you think this should be tackled? I do not have access to a parts dip bath. Can you think of another alternative to achieve it? Thank you
Cerakoting is very easy I do a lot of my bolts and parts in it if you don’t want the hassle of baking it on just use the air dry stuff it takes about 5 days to completely harden.
You are right about that! And we typically get a bunch of our stuff treated at West Michigan Cerakote. Like Davin mentioned in the beginning of the video, we would normally send something like the oil plug in for a ceramic coating along with a bunch of other parts. We are huge fans of cerakote!
Hagerty yeah it’s great stuff I wouldn’t ever do any internal parts but external stuff even headers work great with it. Can’t wait to see the Buick straight 8 get done!
When he said EPI I said, wut? 😂 In any case glad to know there's relatively easy but thorough method for a solid antirust coating.
Suggest running an actual test on this. Give us proof it works! :)
This is the same thing as blueing a gun. It works
@@bgj2940 That's right
It doesn’t, it requires oil or wax. It’s not like a zinc coating
@@mrmidnight32 True it will fend off flash rust and moisture in the air. But it will not prevent rust on a part left in the weather.
Wear safety glasses !
Wow !! Dude!! That was a very informative tutorial !!! I want to say thank you for your time and effort because it’s a great tip for me and I’ll tell ya why,, I’ve been makin fixed blade knives for a few years now and have really struggled with producing a finish on the blade for rust protection!! I’ve tried ferric chloride , hydrochloric acid and sulfuric acid with some success but it’s never a 100% !! There’s always a spot or patch or the tint isn’t consistent but I think your black oxide will get the job done !! I can’t wait to try it !!! The steel I use is 1095 HC no stainless yet because I can’t heat treat stainless, yet !! Thanks again man !! I really think the sealer will give the blade a sheen on the finished part that will just pop !!! Thank You !!!
That is a good idea! Thank you for sharing
big like, thank you. Looking for something to put as a coating on an axe I want to keep healthy.
Wouldn't a connecting rod stay oily enough in a crankcase environment to prevent rust? Cool video though. I can definitely think of some parts that would benefit from this such as mechanical clutch linkages exposed to under-car environment.
That’s awesome! I’m always snapping connecting rods caus they rust to nothing!
Rust is developing even applied after proper de-rusting oil
Never thought of that. Great for a collector car that doesn't get started much. As far as coatings go not for inside of a engine I have used KBS and POR. I'm still on the fence on witch one is better. What do you think? Thanks for all your videos.
Great video. This is interesting to me to get a non paint non powder coat finish. I will check further but does this work on stainless and/or aluminum? Thanks.
Looks like Cold Blueing or Browning
But with a bunch of extra $teps.
Another great DIY, Davin. Love your videos!
Combating rust with rust. Neat!
You know what works really well for all around rust stoppage? Rustoleum Rust Reformer spray paint. Not kidding I've sprayed it directly on a lightly rusted truck panel and underneath on the rusty suspension and the rust never came back . Wouldn't use it on connecting rods but honestly don't see why connecting rods need rust prevention anyway.
Always good to find something that works for your project! The key part of this process, with the rods in particular, is that you're not adding a measurable coating to the outside and therefore won't have issues with fitment or with it chipping or peeling off.
I use Rust Reformer a lot. Best of all, the active ingredients are suspended in a very high quality black paint. I use as black paint just because.
Great video… thanks! Gonna do this on my 67 Cuda that you insure.
Um… safety glasses? Kinda surprised … no disrespect intended my friend but getting blinded or burned would kinda suck.
Working on a 1921 Harley. I would like to coat the cylinders and the head with this Black Oxide. I need it to not rust, and hold up to normal engine heat for an air cooled engine. Will wait for your response in how to proceed. May coat the rods also. Thank you and best regards.
Does black oxide change the dimensions of bearing seat?
Micron thin chemical plating, shouldn't affect tolerances
Glasses or goggles around chemicals would be a good idea.
You can always spot a machinist. We always call them chip brushes. ☺️☺️☺️
There is an amazing TH-cam channel called My Mechanics with a bunch of restoration possess. But he also has a second channel where he explains metal bluing which is a great
way to rustproof metal without actually painting it.
Amazingly good channels! Science and ASMR rolled into one.
Love that channel!
Davin should make a new one
Does this treatment survive to high temperatures? E.g. external surfaces in turbo, pipes or brakes?
No this is where Cerakote comes in.
@@reckowracing3342 Yes, but completely different type of finish, with it's own pros and cons.
I'm set to get all notifications. Why is TH-cam not notifying me?
I'm not getting notified either.
I would certainly hesitate putting something like that on a connecting rod. Some chemical coatings can form a layer thick enough to mess with your clearances.
not the case here.
You asked - how about a overview of a complete internal/external engine coating/preservation. You did the paint on the outside of the Buick block, now we see blackening, how about property gypsol coating (however you spell that) and how to preserve bare surfaces in a motor that's going to sit ....
Say you were doing something like your rod, that might get set aside while other things are on the go (like sorting misbehaving valve guides for instance): would the old standby of wrapping them in an oily rag til you need them, prevent them rusting?
Is that an actual "gunblue" of the type used on small handtools (pliers, screwdrivers, etc.) -- i.e., black _iron_ (e.g., magnetite), or a "cosmetic" bluing (i.e., black _copper_ oxide applied to the steel)?
This is important to me, and having tried a number of commercial "rust converter" type products over the years I have become more and more disillusioned, but, as the old saying goes, "hope springs eternal" and so I keep hoping that _someone_ will come up with a product that will do a quick, easy conversion to black oxide OF the _steel_ itself.
I have pretty much reconciled myself to having to grit my teeth and do some rust bluing, and maybe it's not as involved as it seems, but not having the resources to buy a "production" setup to do hot salt bath bluing (or the need!), unless I can find a way to _chemically_ treat steel to create _true_ bluing I'm gonna have to do the rust bluing (or just let my late father's tools eventually rust away).
Rust bluing is about as good as it gets, if one of the hardest methods to use. There are plenty of "black oxides", but the process of creating and polishing layers of it means it's a 3d surface of rust resistance, versus a thin, mono-layer like this.
True "hot-bluing" is close/on par, but involves caustic chemicals at boiling temperatures. You could probably manage, but it's a logistical nightmare of what to do with 50 gallons of toxic solution afterwards.
This is a very respectable in between. This is about the height of home shop cold bluing. This process, plus maintaining an oiled surface, will do for almost all situations barring salty, corrosive, humid air.
@@ryanj610 -- I agree with respect to rust bluing. It's the _original_ type of bluing -- it converts "red oxide" (rust) which is inherently _unstable_ (there's a reason it's called "cancer" and also for axioms like "rust never sleeps") -- into "black oxide" which _is_ stable (will NOT "spread" like _red_ oxide).
As I understand it, oxygen is liberated from the boiling water, then combined with the red rust on the surface of the steel (the process beginning with a coat of acid to promote rapid rust formation), and then the "loose" material on the surface removed by brushing away with a file card -- and then, the process is repeated, over and over until the desired color is obtained.
The "Brown Bess" was done with the process stopping at the brown level, others going for a deep, rich, lustrous black that I doubt any other process could rival.
"Cold bluing" is strictly _cosmetic._ It's a _selenium_ compound applied to the surface, providing _no_ protection.
Does the oxide need to be removed from bearing surfaces?
This was very useful information thank you
Which items and sizes did you purchase? Were they individually priced or all in a kit? They list a trial kit version, but not what you show…. Thank You
Hi Davin, thanks a lot for all your details and exciting project.
Your program is one of the reasons we are constructing in family a workshop to fully restore our 1954 Chevy 210.
I do have a question. Since your videos are watched around the Globe, would it be possible to try to see products that are common across different Countries?
In the example of this specific video, it would be nearly impossible to import chemical products to my Country (Brazil).
Anyway, keep inspiring us all with those great projects! I better go back now to our workshop and have the work done!
All the Best!
Felipe.
Thats awesome.
Love the channel and knowledge. This videos asmr was great
Would the sealer (step 4) on its own provide the corrosion resistance? Or would it not take without steps 1 & 2? I suppose what I’m asking is whether the black oxide step is actually necessary?
Step 4 is water displacing oil corrosion protection coating. It will give you the same corrosion protection on bare steel as corrosion protection over black oxide finish. Only difference, we want parts to look cool black!
Never thought of that. Great idea for a musi
Looks identical to Caswell Black Oxide kit but about 30% cheaper. 😮
Very interesting. Very helpful. Thank you for sharing. 🇨🇦😎
Thanks , I need this
Buddy Lembek!
Turns out, you're infinitely smarter than Charles.
Just kidding, Thank you for the video!
The parts look awesome
How to avoid the Rust after blackening of SG cast iron parts
This process is kind of similar to bluing firearm parts. Is it better than bluing?
I think it's the same thing
Bluing needs oil on the finish or it will rust!
I think that's what that last step was. A really thin oil to prevent the rust.
correct this is basically Bluing. and with out some sort of protective coating or it will corrode. so either oil or a sealant.
@@reckowracing3342 It is not gun bluing. Gun bluing is done with a caustic solution boiling at 285-295F. This is an acidic solution that is run at room temperature. It is not as abrasive resistant as gun bluing but produces a black finish that is only ~0.000005" thick. The Insta Blak 333 needs to be rinsed well after blackening and then a sealer (oil) needs to be applied.
Great show! If I may! Where's you're safety goggles ?
Yes... thought of that when he said the etchant smells like muriatic acid ...
Awesome. Thanks for the video
Black oxide can continue to work (react) in threaded holes and crevices if not 100% rinsed. After a few days you will see white powder and trails of white corrosion leaking out. The metal is continuing to be etched by the residual oxide and just like rust, will eventually chemically weld two steel parts together. The drain plug is an acceptable use for black oxide but based on my experience, the connecting rod isn't. I'd stay away from black oxiding any parts with internal threads or holes especially if they are blind. Good luck.
snaproll94e, couldn’t you just run a tap on those threads just to clean them up? I think I would do it just to make sure they were clean.
@@Hoaxer51 I've used several different professional coating vendors and all had the same problem with corrosion in spaces that weren't 100% rinsed. If 100% rinsed this shouldn't happen, a knowledgeable person doing it for themself may do better than a large scale automated process. Personally I won't black oxide any stressed or threaded parts.
@@snaproll94e In your case, I believe it was not due to the rinse after blackening it was cleaning before black oxide was applied.
rinsing a a blind hole is easy if you know what you are doing.
@@RichardMichaelOwen It is correct that the Insta Blak 333 need to be completely rinsed off. It is an acidic solution that will keep reacting if not rinsed off or neutralized. If rinsing is an issue we use a rinse with sodium bicarbonate (2-4 oz/gal) to help neutralize the acid. The follow that up with a water rinse.
Not sure if it was mentioned in the video and i just missed it, but does it affect tolerances? (does the "coating" have a thickness? or is it converting the outer layer and therefore no added thickness?)
This process will not affect tolerances. The coating thickness is only 0.000005"
Interesting, similar to gun bluing.
Interesting!! Thought about this type of thing recently when I was about to use a "raw" pipe fitting for a heater line. Do you know how this coating would compare to "gun blueing"?? I ended up NOT using the raw fitting so never tried the blueing.
Looks pretty similar to regular cold blueing. The degreaser and muriatic acid etchant are not really necessary if your parts are clean; just use brake cleaner. The final coating probably helps it last. Usually when you cold blue you oil the part afterwards and wipe it down a day later.
You cant write the description about inggridient...
Do you do this PRIOR to machining the contact surfaces or after ?? Like those rods vs the crank... ?
Can this parts be cleaned by a Ultrasonic Cleaner if you have 500 parts to clean for blacking
How long does it last on low carbon steel in dry hot environment such as 100°C?
do high polished steels remain shiny after the "prep" dip? ie will one get glossy black final finish?
Will doing this to a turbo manifold keep it looking better for longer?
I’de like to comment that this presentation is NOT black oxide. It is a selenium based chemical plating. It is expensive compared to actual black oxide and not durable. But, it makes an attractive finish and is fast to apply.
First though - Metal CLEANLINESS is paramount. Degrease with a solvent then boil in common ordinary homemade 10% sodium gluconate solution. Rinse with distilled water and then proceed to your blackening process.
As to actual black oxide (magnetite) it can be obtained using traditional blackening salts (make yourself) but operated at 180-190F - not the dangerous problematic 280F. Select a glass canning jar or larger that you can seal (if no lid use an oven bag) to prevent evaporation. Place in the oven for 12 to 24 hrs. Suggest using a dedicated one such as a toaster oven.Excellent results will be obtained.
beautiful
Great Video ... 💎
if the part is ' inside ' the engine,, would not the oil, and oil vapour keep it from rusting.. the con rods, camshafts. etc,?
He explained it in the video, if the engine sits a long time without running then the oil runs off the bare metal part and the moisture can rust them. This coating allows the oil to stick to the metal and provide a lot more protection.
Why would you use black oxide? It wears off very quickly, zinc phosphate or manganese phosphate lasts much longer, gives a more uniform finish, won’t adhere to polished surfaces, just a better all around finish.
Does this process add material of any consequence. I'm thinking of bearing surfaces or threads being tighter than before treatment.
Chris, CuSe black produces extremely thin black coating. We talk about 0.1 micron of the coat.
Would you recommend doing a black oxide coat to a bellhousing or would it be better just to get it powder coated?
I assume you have a cast iron bell. I would powder coat but preferably cerakote. PC has build up so holes, threads and mounting surfaces will need to be cleaned before use. Black oxide doesn't build up either but will not have the long term corrosion resistance.
At 5.50 you say it is not a coating, yet the title of the video says "Black oxide coating...".
Does this add buildup? Will it change bolt or other tolerances?
The Insta Blak 333 is a thin film that will only be ~0.000005"
Interesting 😀👍
Awesome 👍🏾🤙🏼 I like some diy for small parts 👍🏾🤙🏼
How can a con rod rust? it's bathed in oil all the time.
I can honestly say that I've never heard of a connecting rod fail because of "rust" LOL This just sounds like some new crap they want to sell.
@@reelreeler8778 I mean if an engine is left sitting for years surface rust can appear on the internal parts if there has been condensation, but at that stage there are bigger issues anyway. "Blueing" external parts makes more sense.
An engine in use won't have rusty rods, but if you connecting rod is submerged while running you will have bigger problems than rust ;)
@@uliwehner Indeed.
@@reelreeler8778 no one is saying connecting rods fail due to rust. the point is a motor that will see more storage time than run time, the rods will surface rust from simple condensation. surface rust can contaminate the oil and subsequently go through the bearings. Now we certainly can debate the extent of the damage or concern, but that was the point. Actually not selling the product more discussing another use for Black oxide than just fasteners.
A big plus is use Distilled water NOT TAP WATER 🧐
Can this work of shotgun barrels and revolvers?
This is the same process as the bottles of "Gun blue" you can buy. Probably better chemicals.
Not the true "hot-blue" you get from the factory.
Nice, is this only for metal parts or other kind of materials?
Check out EPI's website. They have coatings for a bunch of different metals.
They have products for Steel, Stainless steel, Copper alloys, Zinc, Aluminum, Cadmium, Silver. Check their website. They have a lot of the products offered as small DIY or try it kits. I finished my solid bronze door handle with B/OX 311 Gel. Only had to buy hard top coating from Home Depot.
I feel like I'm watching Bob Ross lol
Very cool. Thanks.
What about bearing surfaces? I would think that this would be bad for them.
Why? It has no appreciable thickness, and the bearings are placed over it. There is no mechanical contact of the oxide with any moving/bearing surfaces. It will have zero impact on the bearings.
@@andoletube why? Because I didn't hear him mention anything about where NOT to use it. The rods were fine since they get bearings placed later, but I expected Davin to suggest some dos and don'ts. I could have worded my question better.
So would this process work for impact sockets? I got a bunch at a garage sale and they have lost the black coating on them
black oxide or phosphate is the coating on most impact sockets. also why they are oily when purchased.
No they were in a 5-gallon bucket that had some water in it. I’ve taken them to the wire wheel and currently in the house but I’d to leave them in the barn where they’ll be used
safety glasses please.
Are you aware of Hydrogen embrittlement (HE) and are sure this process will not affect the parts you’re treating?
Hydrogen embrittlement occurs during an electroplating process like Zinc Dichromate common coating on Bolts. Electroplating causes Hydrogen atoms to be absorbed by the metal thus causing fractures and weakening the material. It is prevented by heating (think annealing) the parts in a controlled manner during the plating process.
Black Oxide is a chemical process that simply stains the oxide on the surface turning it gray/black. so in appearance you don't see Red rust however left unprotected ie oil or sealer it will rust. Phosphate is very similar as well and found on virtually every hood hinge through the 60s.
No issues with HE, you can skip any H+ prosses. NO HCl, no plating. Just use E-Pik 215 from EPI.
The problem with embrittlement is actually the acid pickling step and yes it is an issue, you cannot acid pickle HSS.
I've never heard a paint brush called a chip brush.
Its not a paint brush. Its for machining operations, brushing away shavings and chips from the part or machine. Chip brushes are a lot rougher and dont produce a good finish like a paint brush would.
@@murphragous Where do you buy them?
Ive bought them at Harbor Freight. Im sure Tractor Supply or Northern Tool have them, or similar stores. They come in box fulls and are cheaper than real paint brushes so you can pitch them and grab a new one when they get too crusty and not stress the cost.
Victor O'Neill, Amazon has them also, bags of assorted sizes or all one size. I use them if I’m touching up some oil based paint, then just toss them when you’re done.
It’s a chip brush when used in machine work to brush chips out of the way.
It’s a cheap paint brush when you use it to paint.
Available in several sizes at any big box paint department.
It’s a bbq brush when used to spread bbq sauce.
Will this work on the inside of a gas tank?
Good one. Funny. You would think it is stupid idea, but people blacken drill bits and CNC tool holders. Why? Appearance, just nice looking parts can get you higher margins.
Wow, those conrods won't rust now, better do all the internals. :-)
Wear an anti splash goggle when working with acid and salt man!
Safety glasses?!
All those steps appear unnecessary
Gun bluing
Saftey glasses????
never cross-contaminate by using the same container. 👎
A remedy for a problem that isn't.
It was OK for the pan plug......waste of time on the rods. I have NEVER seen a rusty rod that hasn't sat for a dozen years.