What did you expect? Dragon Ball fans don't even watch the show to make their arguments, and you expect them to wait and watch the video so to counter argument??
Even if it bunged up the plot and made Goku seem like a twat for half a saga, ssj3 is still my favourite super saiyan transformation, Vegito's pretty cool but much like how Goku and Vegeta avoid fusing because they prefer attaining and utilizing their individual power, I prefer ssj3 to fusions because I enjoy watching an individual break the ceiling of what's considered possible.
I really think SSJ3 is the only power up in anime I've seen that retains its hype status purely on the rule of cool and not much else. Even knowing full well how minuscule its feats are, I still get hyped whenever I see it
It's really irritating that no one uses ssj3 right. It's supposed to be used to finish a fight quickly, not to draw it out until stamina issues kick in. Either this, or no one wants to spend the time needed to master it. My God, Vegeta used it correctly in Daima. We are living in the best timeline.
@@jacksonjack7838 Nope, he completely missed the logic of the form's pro's and con's and attached energy limit to stay in the land of the living in it's debut. lol
Gotenks may have fooled around against Super Buu but I don't think he was strong enough to finish him off with it anyway. As for Goku vs Kid Buu he was trying to end it fast but just couldn't because Buu was regenerating too fast.
Ssj3 could've worked from a story perspective if it was built up. Like there's never a point in the Buu arc where Vegeta or any of the other characters think Goku is lying about his true power, there's never a point where the audience is led to believe that Goku is hiding something up his sleeve, there's not even a point where Goku alludes to using something he didn't want anyone else to know about. Having Goku be forced to reveal ssj3 to everyone when Buu attacks would have helped the form's significance.
Goten and Trunks think Goku is lying and is weak at this point in the story since they're upset that he didn't beat Boo right away and save Gohan and Vegeta. It feels more like the point of the form was to be a plot device to show the boys that Goku actually is the strongest rather than to be as story significant as SSJ1 and SSJ2.
in the anime vegeta tells goku he has felt a greater power from him when defeating yakon by increasing his ki, i think that could be forshadowing a little
@@harrylane4 You gotta be kidding me. Making a transformation be monkey-like which was the idea of the Saiyans isn't cool? Damn. But i guess we all have different tastes again and it's okay.
@@thelightseeker94 They didnt even know anything about Buu at that point. Its just them beeing "Bad Gohan! Dont go out and save your girlfriend! For..reasons!"
With all the bullshit they like to pull, I honestly wouldn't have minded too much if he somehow managed to stableizde the form in BoG/Super. The form is undeniably trash in terms of usability, but there is something about it that does get me hyped up when he screams and the hair starts growing. Especially with how rarely he uses it. "Oh shit, he decided to pull this out?"
he did which is why he's chilling in the form when he gets ready to fight beerus but during the tournament he has no energy after eating his own spirit bomb and jiren beating his butt so he can't maintain it
I think one of the bigger issues with Super Saiyan 3 is that it seems really hard to draw. Out of all of the forms in Dragon Ball SSJ3 is the form I've seen drawn poorly the most.
Goten should get Super Saiyan Blue Full Power, (which would look similarly to Super Saiyan Rose Full Power from Heroes, but maybe swapping the tail for eyebrows) and Trunks should get Blue Evolution 3.
Was it that awesome? The look of Goku face without eyebrows when in SSJ3 always bothered me. It was like all that screaming and glowing was mostly to generate more chromosomes.
To me SSJ3 always seemed like a super saiyan "glitch", a transformation which, unlike the 2 (technically 5) previous ones has a flaw that cannot be fixed in any way, that be the enormous energy drain (read a comment once that said how the transformation was like a punctured balloon where no matter how much air you blow into it it can't stay inflated and i think it sums it up perfectly). It seems as if Goku trained SO MUCH in the afterlife that the genetic code of the Saiyans forced the transformation, which should not and could not exist if Goku stayed alive while he developed it, this would justify both the huge flaws of the form and the sole exclusivity of the aforementioned to Goku (I don't count Gotenks because being a fusion it cannot be examined with the same criteria in my opinion) Still remains a dope ass looking form
What if he tried to contain the amount of Ki that was flowing out of his body (Like putting tape on the balloon) then when he wants to release all that energy, he releases the ki in the form of a powerful attack that will defeat the opponent (taking the tape off the balloon)?
I find this theory very interesting and cool my take is more that ssj3 is the ssj2 user drawing out all the oozaru potential which super charges the form but it can(but still hasn’t) be mastered to control the energy like ssj4 hence why originally the form had a tail and shorter crazier hair based off its origin in ssj2 and oozaru to me ssj3 isn’t a glitch it’s more of a next evolution of ssj and oozaru
This theory is further proved by the fact Goku could only maintain the form while dead, being alive just straight up didn't work as he had working organs and needed ki, needed stamina and everything else, a form he achieved while DEAD had much worse drawbacks than he expected Which also makes sense why Gotenks is the only other user of SSJ3, Gotenks is a fusion of two Saiyans, he can maintain the pressure because it's literally double
SSJ3 being flawed is partially why I like it so much. Like the video mentioned, SSJ2 is just SSJ but better in every way and that’s just not super interesting. Kaioken was really cool because it was an awesome power that had an equally devastating drawback. I do think they could have used it better narratively.
Another intresting way to look at ssj3 is via mark’s Buu saga review. He basically says that Akira’s writing style of extreme shock and surprise to drive the plot forward came back to bite him in the Buu saga, making it feel less clever and interesting, and a bit more contrived. Basically, ssj3 is an example of that, and any other problem related to it could just be him trying to explain the problems that would arise with its introduction, which end of making it look worse. It’s less character assassination and more Toriyama getting too ahead of himself and writing himself into a brick wall.
I'd say it's still character assassination, but as a side-effect of its existence. Because it's a retcon that just unnecessarily makes Goku look more cocky, selfish, and dishonest than he was intended to be.
@@najadamu2724 to refute both of you at the same time: Goku at the point where he could have shown off SSJ3 before was trying to assuage Vegeta’s pride, and lead him back to them, showing off SSJ3 may have just exacerbated that issue. After that he’s trying to train Goten and Trunks, he doesn’t need to transform to train them. While he could have immediately faced Buu, his personal arc in the Buu arc was that he was tired of saving Earth, he wanted a successor. He wanted the same with the Cell arc. The end of that is that Satan in the end saves the planet and he gains a successor in Uub.
Good points as always, Carthu. Also SSJ3 being a "Gotenks exclusive form" is actually not a bad idea...too bad Gotenks as a character is almost just as underutilized as SSJ3 in general...
fusion in general feels pretty useless overall as far as canon material goes. Like i'm pretty sure the only canon fusion W was against freaking Super Broly
@@ninjanate5018 I'd consider something like that an "unfinished match" or something like that. (The vegito fan in me want to be bias so badly...but I won't listen).
@@Gensolink Yeah. It's like all they know how to is "have the fusion show up, talk shit, do something cool, and lose" over and over again. Even in some non-canon material, it happens over and over again (especially with my boi Vegito. 😭 Though I've noticed not even Gogeta can escape this treatment sometimes).
YEAH! I have also felt annoyed at the way they kept making the fusions show up just to not let them finish what they were called for even though THEY COULD HAVE. Like do something else, damn.
Even though Super Saiyan 3 is my favorite transformation (Unless Kaioken was considered a transformation then that would be my fav.). I really like all your points here. I completely understand why you don't like Super Saiyan 3 and it doesn't really seem to be out of hate or anything. It’s more or less you wanting it to be better than what it was before.
i see kaio-ken as a technique, so blue kaio-ken is also not a separate form (mui is a form goku's body created to use the technique more effectively so that's different)
@@JayceCH. I disagree. I’ve found that Wrath of the Dragon makes it look worse. Since it ruins the character arc Trunks was going to have in that movie.
Yea I guess it's because Goku couldn't master SS3 and this should make this an underrated form cause Goku mastered every form he has but he can't master this one
@@najadamu2724 as Carthu himself says, a lot of the weirdness of SSJ3 is Goku Weirdness, because its presence acts as major character assassination, tho it does also apply the other way around
In the anime: Against Beerus, against future Trunks, that time when he and Krillin went to go train in that forest against past villains, and against Caulifla and Kale I believe. If we add the manga: Against Toppo, against 17, and against Merus I think 🤔
I think it could potentially be redeemed in the future, like whis using it as a basis to help goku control his UI forms, that learning to control the drain of 3 first could be translated into learning to better control the same from UI, but as it is, it really has no place now as anything other than fan service (I’m far from up to date on manga, so sorry if these are already non-issues)
Aaaaaaaannnd subscribed. Great video! As much as I love the design, I imagine it was a nightmare for the animators and Toriyama so that led to SS3s limited appearances. The movies made it look amazing. The form being a Gotenks exclusive is brilliant. However, I wonder how that would have changed the final battle with Kid Boo
i really don't think it's overrated. it gets shat on all the time after its first appearance in canon with ridiculous "stamina limits" and never even defeated anybody. plus, like you said, it makes goku seem worse than he is. ss3 is emblematic of toriyama's resentment of goku's heroics. reminder: this is the goku that when told by piccolo that gohan hates fighting and just wants goku to save him, forsakes the idea of a fair fight and tries to heal up so they can gang up on cell and finish the fight permanently. goku legitimately thought gohan would want this and that achieving this victory on his own would be good for gohan.
he meant overrated by fans which is absolutely true, people love posting shots of it in the movies then taking out of context shots from the early episodes of super and going "we used to be a real society what happened" and people will always come to its defence like you're doing right now whenever someone brings up it being useless and ugly
@@dankerbell people liking it despite its flaws doesnt make it overrated, also it may be useless but definitely not ugly, its one of the most majestic forms in dragon ball
@@romart03idk man it always looked goofy to me. The long hair just felt way too over the top and I know it’s dragonball but like even then it just felt a bit too much for me
@@rift3487 Thats the exact word I used in my comment. "Goofy". It's one of the ugliest forms in all DB. I get everyone had different tastes but this is just... it just looks to dumb and silly and an R word I'm probably not allowed to say.
4:51 carthu i'm like 99% sure you've mentioned somewhere that super saiyan 3 has the stamina drain when goku used it because when he got the form in the afterlife he didn't know it was so draining because, well he was dead...
Crazy how only Cumber has done the form justice by actually mastering it. And he isn’t even canon. The way goku’s ssj3 hair didn’t move one bit when he brought it out in the TOP, you can tell they wrote it to be shafted because they didn’t want to draw and animate the hair. Hopefully gotenks (or goten and trunks individually) can master it if the animators find a way to draw it more easily or if they just get over it lol. And ngl ssjg got shafted too
Also, they’re of course making it seem like caulifla will do ssj3 justice which would be nice. Although a big oversight is that ssj3 channels the oozaru’s power (which most people tend to forget) and universe 6 saiyans biologically don’t have anything to do with the great ape. But whatever
@@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb Are you sure it channels the oozaru’s power? Pretty sure it was just a visual spectacle more than anything just like how goku going mui was
@@Wizofmincraft yeah, goku’s and gotenks’ voices become rougher when in ssj3 and the loss of the eyebrows is to make them look more like the great ape. The original design of ssj3 even shows the tail grow back (which I wish happened), on top of the long hair and no eyebrows
@@SuperDeleto it’s literally n.2 saiyan form after normal super saiyan, it has a huge story behind it, it is a gate to a whole new world of power, and most of all it’s the form that revived dragon ball, and to many fans, it’s the first form they actually watched being obtained. And if you are about to say ssj4… just don’t… other than a kinda cool design it has nothing.
@@Micerog The lore behind the form is great (though slightly confusing at times), and personally, I like it's design (especially the red, flame-like Aura). But the only reason I don't wanna put this form any higher than 4 is due to how poorly handled it was after BoG (mainly the anime. Manga SSG is actually pretty good). Another thing I don't like about the form is it's name. If it were called "saiyan god" instead, I think that'd make more sense considering the form still keeps Base Goku's hairstyle.
@@nOT_sURE08 Toriyama wanted to end the story after Namek. But the series was so succesful. He was forced to do the Cell Saga. The fact he tried to kill Goku for good there was proof he was done. But again money made it go further into Buu and the poor writing was Toriyama being tired of his own work.
@@BassLiberators All I have is hearsay, but I've seen it mentioned that Toriyama said in interviews that he wanted the more serious, battle shonen style of Z to end in Namek, and go back to Dragon Ball being a lighthearted "gag manga", but he was convinced by publishers to keep making new battle arcs, and also that "The Great Saiyaman" was the greatest compromise he could broker. Until he was again encouraged to go back to battle shonen and [try to] end Dragon Ball.
Oh boy.. This is definitely going to cause a dilemma. Why do I feel like the finger is going to be pointed at SS3 when that form gets almost as much slander as Blue? I'm surprised SS4 isn't on there with how butthurt fans easily get when it comes to any criticism to the form. 🤔
@@therealguyfrThe problem is people associate something being overrated as bad which is not the case. Something can be overrated and good, people just look for any reason to argue. But you are right ss4 is overrated.
From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Goku didn't realize that super Saiyan 3 had those downsides at the time because they weren't present when he was both DEAD and IN OTHER WORD aka the after life... A dead Saiyan spirit in the realm where such Spirits are supposed to exist doesn't have any downsides to Super Saiyan 3, the downsides only started when Goku returned to earth, during which he had to comply with the laws of physics as they exist in the realm of the living... Goku had zero idea his super Saiyan 3 form even HAD downsides because he developed it in other world after he died. This showed that Goku had been keeping up his training after he died, he just forgot about a few things that he hadn't encountered in a while.... "Typical kakarot" completely in character for him to make such a mistake...
My understanding was that while he was dead SSJ3 was a relatively flawless next level but it was Gokus living body that proved its undoing and introduces the stamina issue Showing that the single individual thread of achievements Goku does, once brought into the real physical world doesn’t help solve problems nearly as well as trust in others and the next generation
Back after watching, I agree tbh. Ssj3 should have TOTALLY been a gotenks exclusive, as in its definitely accessible by other characters like goku and vegeta, they just don’t use it, seeing its major flaws and issues and deciding to not even waste their time on it, moving on to their more powerfull, and sometimes even more efficient, SSGod forms, while goten and trunks use ssj3 as a kind of crutch until they can get stronger on their own.
That's why I really like manga version of super saiyan blue Hear me out Super saiyan blue in the dbs manga is super saiyan 3 done right They introduce this really powerful but very impractical form, that drains to much stamina and drops it's power to fast So Goku and Vegeta try to come up with a way around this weakness by using super saiyan god and switching blue on and off during attacks And then goku comes up with a better permanent solution by mastering super saiyan blue and releasing the form's full potential And only after that we were introduced to a step forward with blue kaioken and blue evolution
@@NoName...... Weeeeell he sorta did During the tournament of power he does use something like that He calls it kaioken blue (maybe I misremember the name, but there definitely was kaioken in it) but there is no red and blue aura like in the anime
@@EdgyTheHedgy891 he doesn’t use Kaioken blue in the manga. He just powers up and Krillin says it’s similar to the Kaioken, but it’s not the actual Kaioken. Also, SSB in the manga makes no sense. The form is supposed to be about perfect Ki control. Giving it a stamina problem is nonsensical. Idk why they even did that. Super Saiyan blue is just a poorly written and inconsistent transformation no matter which continuity.
@@farizr.batarai8271 It is Kaioken Blue. The manga guide and official website confirmed this. The manga version portrayed Kaioken more of a common principle of increase strength and speed from the user's reserve at the cost of stamina and hurting the user's body, unlike the anime where it was more of a specific technique.
There’s two kinds of anime fans of transformations. Ones that are like, that are obsessed with the design so much they ignore the flaws of the story of why it should not exist. Ones that actually care about why the transformation should exist regardless of design. For me personally, I really don’t like six past Naruto’s design because I don’t agree with the story of why it exists. The design itself is cool, but I don’t like the story of it. So I can understand and relate to you.
I've always seen Goku not beating Buu with ssj3 as an enforcement of the fact that Buu couldn't be beaten with pure power and that it took teamwork in order to finish him off. It makes sense when you think about it.
@@dreemurrprinceand then they slap this idea in the face as Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu,now imagine trying to beat a dumber super Buu (fat Buu initially) Goku would get bodied.
@@UninterestingPerson-to3jo well thats sort of different. Dead Goku could beat fat buu, and maybe even kid buu (heavy debatable but possible) but alive goku can’t. This is explained as SS3 being easier to use with a dead body. unless im misunderstanding your reply in which case im being a dumbass so correct me
super saiyan 3 is literally considered a bad transformation IN UNIVERSE. it only worked well in the otherworld because of the downsides not being there.
it still is in his community post, sometimes youtubers change thumbnails because it helps with the algorithm but i also heard there's a system to upload multiple thumbnails so different people get different ones to help with attracting viewers
@@Randomgoesbrrrrsaying its used against the weakest enemy is kinda a stretch considering GT scaling post baby arc where every villain is pretty much stronger that his base-ssj3 with a few exceptions like oceanus or haze shenron where he mainly fought in his base
trueee, ssj4 gets just as glazed if not more so because of the way it looks and the fact that gt fans really hate super so whenever someone mentions it they have to mention how much better ssj4 is than every single form in all of super
crazy how that one slight tweak from goku being the first to discover it to gotenks completely changes the narrative and actual makes it a better transformation.
I don't understand the decision of introducing a new transformation, hyping it up, then making it useless in-universe. You could say the same about the Super Saiyan grades, but those were always supposed to suck. SJJ3 is supposed to be cool yet it isn't.
@@MustacheDLuffy it wasn't just super tho lol. The form has BEEN had its flaws. I mean yeah it gets outright replaced in super and GT, but even before either of those came out, the form didn't achieve much (outside of movies), was flawed asf, forced, and does some damage to the story itself. Let's not act like a lot of the criticism towards ssj3 is because of super 😭
I absolutely agree with the Gotenks thing, if they were to unlock ssj3 instead of goku, it would just be a better fit and it doesn't ruin goku as a character, then again most of the buu saga was pretty messed up, but i still like it lol.
I never understood the transformation sequence of SSJ3. The cuts to goku as a kid and then as a great ape make literally 0 sense in relation to the transformation
It’s not the least best. That would imply it’s good. It’s not. However, yes, it’s not the worst. Super Saiyan blue is, but you’re coping with this word play tbh.
Super Sayin 3 is meaningful to me because its the first form that really captured Goku's Angelic personality he had throughout all of DB and DBZ into a Power Up form. He usually had his halo up alot of the time in SSj3. As a power up its an energy burner 1 shot K.O. form in IMO; w/o an other world body.
SSJ3 contradicts what Goku figured out in the time chamber, I love mastered SSJ as someone who does martial arts and spars I love how they applied real logic to the forms. Getting stronger doesn’t mean you automatically win but SSJ3 ruins all that set up and what Goku learned in favor of a cool form. At least that’s what I think
One of the things I love about ssj3 is the fact that goku learned it through pure training. Using what ssj2 left him, he pushed those boundaries and surpassed it through pure power, but the unnatural limit breaking forces it to take so much energy.
I'm still thinking the final fight should've been mythic Gohan. To me it's another Problem of the Boo saga that this form gets introduced and that just falls flat. There was the potential of Gohan learning to overcome his arrogance which costed him the first fight. Heck in a Manga that isn't that focused on powerlevel Gohan would've actually have the chance to be the smart and analytic fighter who finds some sort of weakness of Boo which can than be used by Goku to defeat Boo. (Which would be anotger character growth for Goku accepting help in a fight)
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Toriyama hated drawing ssj3 hair Is also the reason why Raditz didn’t get revived, Long Hair
Honestly i could have forgiven, SS3 if they explained it as, a halfway point to somthing greater. Like SS grade 3 to SS2, he didn't want to talk about it or use it because it wasnt pratical and he didn’t want to show or even alude it to being possbile until he found something better.
The only reason SSJ3 didn't get the love it deserved was that the animators didn't want to struggle with this form. That's it. But to be honest, it would've been so much better to have proper SSJ3 than just switching colors with each new form. This is like the og ME3 ending all over again. The plot boils down to what color of hair they have, that's it.
I personally like the form, for some reason, but it is so bad 💀 the fact that he couldn’t even beat any of the buu forms with it, (except for fat buu cause he didn’t want too.) makes it seem on par with Ssj 2. It was a very random idea, cause before he said he was going all out against Vegeta, but NOPE! He Has SSJ 3 Now! It would have been better if it didn’t exist, even though I like it.
I 100% agree that the animators didn't want to draw all that hair. Also, Goku is a flippin' idiot for not using instant transmission to get the dragon radar instead of sending Trunks.
That’s exactly how I felt. Tbh never was a fan of ssj3. I love the look but it hardly used and Gonu never mastered it. People say ssj3 was made irrelevant in super but it wasn’t really relevant in z either
Well damn, now I'd like to see a full What If-style rundown on that pitch you made at the end. How everything from the Buu Saga onward would be rewritten to account for Goten and Trunks being the ones to discover Super Saiyan 3.
I disagree. Ssj3 narratively portrays super Saiyan in general has reached its limit, Goku didn't use it against Vegeta because he knew it would make his time on earth run dry quicker and only pulled it out against buu to stall. Goku didn't want to just beat Buu he wanted to find the successor to himself (because he's dead and can't be relied on to save the earth). Goku only finds out about the stamina drain effects of it after he becomes alive again because being dead he had unlimited stamina so it wasn't an issue. The conclusion of the arc basically teaches the audience and Goku that the hardest battles need to be fought together and can't be won alone via the spirit bomb and vegita and Hercule helping. Ssj3 specifically makes the arc work imo.
Ssj3 is my favorite transformation for the same reasons I like pre timeskip Luffy's gears, they're powerful but come with a drawback or a side effect (why I like kaioken aswell). It would be dumb if all the sudden Goku got past the drawbacks of the form and could use it effortlessly it would just make it the same as the other 2 but just looks different. Imo ssj blue Is wayyy more boring and overrated. Stylistically its just a hair color change and doesn't do anything narratively other than just show that oh they trained and are stronger than regular ssj God but in doing that just makes ssj god completely irrelevant. I liked in battle of the gods that after the god ritual ran out Goku didn't notice and was still fighting at a higher strength despite only being ssj1 but that was completely thrown out as a concept in favor of oh his hair is blue now and he's stronger. Idk it's lame and ssj3 the goat
But goku clearly prioritized saving earth above his 1 day trip. He shouldn’t have any issue with using ss3 to save the day. Even the whole " I wanted the kids to do it" thing comes in later and barely makes sense since Goku comes back again to save the day.
@@JayJay-mk9xgYeah Goku comes back because no one successor can save the day. Goku also fails to beat pure Boo by himself. It’s everyone on Earth working together that beats Boo in the end.
it's not overhated because people like you immediately jump to its defence when someone suggests that good transformation scenes don't make a good form, it should be hated but it isn't
@dankerbell Super saiyan blue, got hated because it overshadow super saiyan god, broke powerscale, lose so much, Super saiyan 3, lose once didn't beat main villain, have movie that have sick line and badass look and was loved and gt show how powerful it is
6:38 what I also like about ultimate is that beast Gohan is an evolved form of ultimate (another reference to ssj2 Gohan in the cell saga) but it also shows gohans way of gaining power as a half saiyan as opposed to goku and vegeta gaining god ki
What if instead of stalling with SS3, Goku pulled Kaio-ken on top of SS/SS2? SS3 is x4 boost from SS2 (or x8 from SS1), so Goku use a KK boost to fight off Buu for a bit, and still lose time from his "resurrection" (I know he still is death) because of the amount of strain in his body. Only issue would be the Kid Buu fight, but simply have Goku and Vegeta team up. Afterall, when Goku was charging the spirit bomb, Vegeta was stalling for him
That's actually a pretty cool idea, with the note that he can only do it because he's dead already, because otherwise kaio-ken on top of anything else should straight up kill you, this to explain why we never see it before or after.
But kaioken will drain more energy if its stacked with other forms Goku in frieza arc used kaioken times ten for a long time In super, Kaioken drained more energy stack up with ssj blue + kaioken cant be stacked with ssj because they need differend emotions to activate Kaioken is only used by pure hearts Ssj by evil
SSJ3 being a form only Gotenks can achieve also makes sense considering how much stronger fusion should be than Goku but also it being the strongest Super saiyan form canonically can also be a reason as of why it's unstable
7:27 I'm hoping either Kale or Caulifla would LEARN SSJ3 and make it better, with development, and scenes showing them mastering the form would be more than enough to get SSJ3 out of this gutter.
Hey Carthu I’m guessing you know about Sparkling Zero and the what if goku went super saiyan in the saiyan saga what’s your thoughts on it since you did that already
You definitely made some good points I didn't think of. I did always have a hunch it's useless especially if it is meant to be quick finish. Like you said, the movies even use it better. Goku goes SS3, DRAGON FIST, BAM.
One more thing that would improve your SSJ3 use idea, is that if SSJ simpy required far more training to use than the other forms. That would make Gotenk's SSJ3 kinda like a sunk cost fallacy where nobody else wants to use it since it requires so much training, but Gotenks doesn't want to stop training and improving it because he's already so invested in it to the point where it does become good. It would keep it as a form mostly for him, while also making it useful.
the video isn't even out yet and the comments are making up what i'm gonna say. oh yeah, this is gonna be a good one
@@CarthusDojo definitely, absolutely 😂
Fr
We all know a form that’s mid💀💀💀💀
What did you expect? Dragon Ball fans don't even watch the show to make their arguments, and you expect them to wait and watch the video so to counter argument??
Bruh Ssj 3 isn't the fault it could have defeated Fat Buu but Goku did stupidity
"vegito might be more popular than ssj3" my brother the sky might be blue
grass may be green or yellow
Even if it bunged up the plot and made Goku seem like a twat for half a saga, ssj3 is still my favourite super saiyan transformation, Vegito's pretty cool but much like how Goku and Vegeta avoid fusing because they prefer attaining and utilizing their individual power, I prefer ssj3 to fusions because I enjoy watching an individual break the ceiling of what's considered possible.
Erm, isn't that too obvious?
@@leI-o-l9lDamn we got Sherlock Holmes observation here
Obviously he’s more popular, there is an entire subreddit dedicated to him
This video was sponsored by Vegeta
THE PRINCE OF ALL SAYANS
Xd
With Bulma's money xD
😂😂😂😂
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I really think SSJ3 is the only power up in anime I've seen that retains its hype status purely on the rule of cool and not much else. Even knowing full well how minuscule its feats are, I still get hyped whenever I see it
It's really irritating that no one uses ssj3 right. It's supposed to be used to finish a fight quickly, not to draw it out until stamina issues kick in.
Either this, or no one wants to spend the time needed to master it.
My God, Vegeta used it correctly in Daima. We are living in the best timeline.
You're talking like you can go ssj3
So its never ever been used right, even by its creator in its debut.
@@iceyspicey4802 They can dude. Goten and trunks fused specifically to use their TH-cam account.
@@jacksonjack7838 Nope, he completely missed the logic of the form's pro's and con's and attached energy limit to stay in the land of the living in it's debut. lol
Gotenks may have fooled around against Super Buu but I don't think he was strong enough to finish him off with it anyway. As for Goku vs Kid Buu he was trying to end it fast but just couldn't because Buu was regenerating too fast.
“Eventually they would get betrayed and trapped in the time chamber”
Heh… I understood that reference.
carthu's a db tuber, he's probably felt the temptation of making one of those videos before
@@dankerbellthose videos are dumb anyways, they’re all just unoriginal
@@dankerbell I mean he did…
@@Micerogwhere
@@diamonshade7484 on his channel, he uploaded it on June 18th 2022
The main reason why ssj3 is useless because the creator said it is hard to draw
That’s why he didn’t bring back Raditz because his hair is so long
Nah, that's why he doesn't use it consistently
And that is exactly why we haven’t seen super saiyan 4 in super … they cool on drawing all that bs 😂
imagine ssj3 raditz
@@bami2he’d be a giant golden hairball
Ssj3 could've worked from a story perspective if it was built up. Like there's never a point in the Buu arc where Vegeta or any of the other characters think Goku is lying about his true power, there's never a point where the audience is led to believe that Goku is hiding something up his sleeve, there's not even a point where Goku alludes to using something he didn't want anyone else to know about. Having Goku be forced to reveal ssj3 to everyone when Buu attacks would have helped the form's significance.
imagine if piccolo just had some small doubt that goku is telling the truth. it couldve fixed so many problems
Goten and Trunks think Goku is lying and is weak at this point in the story since they're upset that he didn't beat Boo right away and save Gohan and Vegeta. It feels more like the point of the form was to be a plot device to show the boys that Goku actually is the strongest rather than to be as story significant as SSJ1 and SSJ2.
@Lynxic that and they never knew goku before that day so they were underestimating him
in the anime vegeta tells goku he has felt a greater power from him when defeating yakon by increasing his ki, i think that could be forshadowing a little
@@Ripperr_or vegeta 😂
They call him 007:
0 feats
0 wins
7 minutes of screen time
I read that as "Scream Time" but with his transformation, it would work either way.
@@dixienormus2802 That's wild lol
Super Saiyan 4 should have been super Saiyan 3
@@user-simonkhatri super saiyan 4 is the most goofy ahh transformation in the entire franchise, never understood how anyone thinks it’s cool
@@harrylane4 You gotta be kidding me. Making a transformation be monkey-like which was the idea of the Saiyans isn't cool? Damn. But i guess we all have different tastes again and it's okay.
Goku's choice to prevent Gohan from saving Videl when she was getting stomped by Spopavich was his worst character moment in the series.
@@InabaPrism Which matters much more than that girl's life!
@@Lifelight_ Ehh they have dragon balls,and second Goku would have saved Videl if they weren't in the tournament
The meme tho
@@thelightseeker94 they needed to follow spopovich to find babidi
@@thelightseeker94 They didnt even know anything about Buu at that point. Its just them beeing "Bad Gohan! Dont go out and save your girlfriend! For..reasons!"
Goku: Ssj3 is drains too much ki.
Gotenks: Lol. Skill issue.
Super Saiyan 4 should have been super Saiyan 3
Gotenks gets only five minutes of fusion because of SS3
If Gotenks super Saiyan 3 took five minutes to unfuse then why did it take 10 minutes to super Saiyan 4 Gogeta to unfuse???
@@Armel-c8w because ssj3 sucks
@@thedesyncedcontroller7404 bruh
With all the bullshit they like to pull, I honestly wouldn't have minded too much if he somehow managed to stableizde the form in BoG/Super. The form is undeniably trash in terms of usability, but there is something about it that does get me hyped up when he screams and the hair starts growing. Especially with how rarely he uses it. "Oh shit, he decided to pull this out?"
Bro the video not even out yet 😭😭
@@MirMoesPower of Membership!
I really like that take bro🤔
he did which is why he's chilling in the form when he gets ready to fight beerus but during the tournament he has no energy after eating his own spirit bomb and jiren beating his butt so he can't maintain it
@@dankerbellmakes sense
Super Saiyan 3 being a Gotenks exclusive is a change I never knew would make so much sense.
I think one of the bigger issues with Super Saiyan 3 is that it seems really hard to draw. Out of all of the forms in Dragon Ball SSJ3 is the form I've seen drawn poorly the most.
this is the real reason
Super Saiyan 3 is an animator's worst nightmare, especially when working on a weekly tv series with bad management and crunch time.
Same reason why cell has never been mentioned
This is the main reason the form only showed up once in the Tournament of Power
It made me sad that Vegeta never had Super Saiyan 3 in canon and Goku not using it against Jiren.
Missed opportunity for goten and trunks not to perfect it and use it as their main form in super. Missed opportunity 😞
Toriyama disliked drawing all that hair. So he made it to where it “uses up too much energy” and SSG + above power creeps it (less hair to draw too)
Goten should get Super Saiyan Blue Full Power, (which would look similarly to Super Saiyan Rose Full Power from Heroes, but maybe swapping the tail for eyebrows) and Trunks should get Blue Evolution 3.
@@MountainMemelord blue Evolution 3 is made-up art. Personally i would Love it goten would get some spot light besides trunks. From time to time.
Half Saiyans have higher potential than Full Blodded Saiyans
So Goten mastering SSJ3 shouldn’t be much if an issue. He could even learn SSJB in a day
Toyotarou would HATE drawing this form
Honestly yeah, Super did SSJ3 dirty. Once it was no longer Goku’s final form, never used again!
Counterpoint: SSJ3 is important, cuz without it, we wouldn’t get the kick ass transformation scene from the anime
Actually is literally like half an episode of just screamming and some pannings while nothing really happens, just to stale time
@@daleodorito nu huh
Was it that awesome? The look of Goku face without eyebrows when in SSJ3 always bothered me. It was like all that screaming and glowing was mostly to generate more chromosomes.
Dum
Ssj3 mid
To me SSJ3 always seemed like a super saiyan "glitch", a transformation which, unlike the 2 (technically 5) previous ones has a flaw that cannot be fixed in any way, that be the enormous energy drain (read a comment once that said how the transformation was like a punctured balloon where no matter how much air you blow into it it can't stay inflated and i think it sums it up perfectly). It seems as if Goku trained SO MUCH in the afterlife that the genetic code of the Saiyans forced the transformation, which should not and could not exist if Goku stayed alive while he developed it, this would justify both the huge flaws of the form and the sole exclusivity of the aforementioned to Goku (I don't count Gotenks because being a fusion it cannot be examined with the same criteria in my opinion)
Still remains a dope ass looking form
What if he tried to contain the amount of Ki that was flowing out of his body (Like putting tape on the balloon) then when he wants to release all that energy, he releases the ki in the form of a powerful attack that will defeat the opponent (taking the tape off the balloon)?
I find this theory very interesting and cool my take is more that ssj3 is the ssj2 user drawing out all the oozaru potential which super charges the form but it can(but still hasn’t) be mastered to control the energy like ssj4 hence why originally the form had a tail and shorter crazier hair based off its origin in ssj2 and oozaru to me ssj3 isn’t a glitch it’s more of a next evolution of ssj and oozaru
@@haydenbrown2076 It makes sense
This theory is further proved by the fact Goku could only maintain the form while dead, being alive just straight up didn't work as he had working organs and needed ki, needed stamina and everything else, a form he achieved while DEAD had much worse drawbacks than he expected
Which also makes sense why Gotenks is the only other user of SSJ3, Gotenks is a fusion of two Saiyans, he can maintain the pressure because it's literally double
Ssb had the same issue
Vegeta finally served some justice to SSJ3
There's absolutely no way that this would be perceived as kicking the hornet's nest and provoke a mob after the premiere.
Gotta make people angry to get daamn views brother.
Premiere?
SSJ3 being flawed is partially why I like it so much. Like the video mentioned, SSJ2 is just SSJ but better in every way and that’s just not super interesting. Kaioken was really cool because it was an awesome power that had an equally devastating drawback. I do think they could have used it better narratively.
Another intresting way to look at ssj3 is via mark’s Buu saga review.
He basically says that Akira’s writing style of extreme shock and surprise to drive the plot forward came back to bite him in the Buu saga, making it feel less clever and interesting, and a bit more contrived.
Basically, ssj3 is an example of that, and any other problem related to it could just be him trying to explain the problems that would arise with its introduction, which end of making it look worse.
It’s less character assassination and more Toriyama getting too ahead of himself and writing himself into a brick wall.
I'd say it's still character assassination, but as a side-effect of its existence. Because it's a retcon that just unnecessarily makes Goku look more cocky, selfish, and dishonest than he was intended to be.
Pretty much.
Mark is a pretentious hack
@@najadamu2724 to refute both of you at the same time: Goku at the point where he could have shown off SSJ3 before was trying to assuage Vegeta’s pride, and lead him back to them, showing off SSJ3 may have just exacerbated that issue. After that he’s trying to train Goten and Trunks, he doesn’t need to transform to train them. While he could have immediately faced Buu, his personal arc in the Buu arc was that he was tired of saving Earth, he wanted a successor. He wanted the same with the Cell arc. The end of that is that Satan in the end saves the planet and he gains a successor in Uub.
@@yumin_pluto558goku doesn't want Uub as a successor. He just wants to fight another strong guy. Vegeta says as much in the last chapter.
Good points as always, Carthu. Also SSJ3 being a "Gotenks exclusive form" is actually not a bad idea...too bad Gotenks as a character is almost just as underutilized as SSJ3 in general...
fusion in general feels pretty useless overall as far as canon material goes. Like i'm pretty sure the only canon fusion W was against freaking Super Broly
@@Gensolinkdon’t forget Vegito against Super Buu
@@ninjanate5018 I'd consider something like that an "unfinished match" or something like that. (The vegito fan in me want to be bias so badly...but I won't listen).
@@Gensolink Yeah. It's like all they know how to is "have the fusion show up, talk shit, do something cool, and lose" over and over again. Even in some non-canon material, it happens over and over again (especially with my boi Vegito. 😭 Though I've noticed not even Gogeta can escape this treatment sometimes).
YEAH! I have also felt annoyed at the way they kept making the fusions show up just to not let them finish what they were called for even though THEY COULD HAVE.
Like do something else, damn.
The only reason why people love ssj3 is because it looks badass. Nobody gives a shit about how powerful it is or isn’t
Even though Super Saiyan 3 is my favorite transformation (Unless Kaioken was considered a transformation then that would be my fav.). I really like all your points here. I completely understand why you don't like Super Saiyan 3 and it doesn't really seem to be out of hate or anything. It’s more or less you wanting it to be better than what it was before.
i see kaio-ken as a technique, so blue kaio-ken is also not a separate form (mui is a form goku's body created to use the technique more effectively so that's different)
A DB fan with a good explanation for his points, great video
Dragon Fist and the video game's usage of SSJ3 redeems the form for me. Always found it bad outside of Wrath of the Dragon.
@@JayceCH. I disagree. I’ve found that Wrath of the Dragon makes it look worse. Since it ruins the character arc Trunks was going to have in that movie.
Yea I guess it's because Goku couldn't master SS3 and this should make this an underrated form cause Goku mastered every form he has but he can't master this one
It might be mid, but the sheer hype I felt when goku whipped it out vs buu with falconers score was just *chefs kiss*
gang what 😭
you have the same last name as me
@@luhhburg"When Goku whipped it out" bro was NOT watching the right dragon ball Z.
@@SuperDeleto fr lmao 😭
"when goku whipped it out" pause
It is my pleasure to inform that Vegeta has redeemed this form
Been waiting for this since the tease you did with TSO. I always to love to see my favorite TH-camrs collab
Fr
I feel like this is more of a “Why Goku doesn’t make sense in the buu saga” rather than “why ssj3 kinda sucks”
SS3 is a big part of that, though.
@@najadamu2724 as Carthu himself says, a lot of the weirdness of SSJ3 is Goku Weirdness, because its presence acts as major character assassination, tho it does also apply the other way around
Ssj 3 just sucks lol
@@najadamu2724 doesn’t change that Goku is the main issue, and should be addressed as such.
@@Luh_katkat🤓
IMO Carthu’s dojo, Salad saiyan & Smugstick is top 3 greatest DB youtubers.
The Trio
Goku only used SSj3 four times in Super.
Is that counting the time he used it on Merus in the Morro arc?
@@Glaceon-I4C7E1 no
In the anime:
Against Beerus, against future Trunks, that time when he and Krillin went to go train in that forest against past villains, and against Caulifla and Kale I believe.
If we add the manga:
Against Toppo, against 17, and against Merus I think 🤔
And vs Moro goons, he dropped into it accidentally
@@SlickJarl. I think I remember that! Good eye 👍
If cell couldn’t regenerate, he was toast when Goku used that instant transmission Kamehameha!!
Yeah Vegeta actually would have won it with his Final Flash. Even though Cell survived missing half his upper body really would have sealed his loss
If goku couldn't kamehameha, he was toast by everyone.... If Tien would be Angel he would beat Beerus. 🤡
@@digitaladventurer2142he would have lost to 16 and the others if he couldn't regenerate his tail
@@digitaladventurer2142Piccolo also ripped out his tail so cell could have been jumped
@@ojpickle5923he would have received a jjk jumping especially since he 3rd partied the fight
I think it could potentially be redeemed in the future, like whis using it as a basis to help goku control his UI forms, that learning to control the drain of 3 first could be translated into learning to better control the same from UI, but as it is, it really has no place now as anything other than fan service (I’m far from up to date on manga, so sorry if these are already non-issues)
Aaaaaaaannnd subscribed. Great video!
As much as I love the design, I imagine it was a nightmare for the animators and Toriyama so that led to SS3s limited appearances. The movies made it look amazing.
The form being a Gotenks exclusive is brilliant. However, I wonder how that would have changed the final battle with Kid Boo
8:59
"Betrayed and trapped in the time chamber," huh? Nice one 😅😂
as a super casual DBZ fan, and someone who loved the introduction of the form, i actually agree w/ this take 100%
i really don't think it's overrated. it gets shat on all the time after its first appearance in canon with ridiculous "stamina limits" and never even defeated anybody. plus, like you said, it makes goku seem worse than he is. ss3 is emblematic of toriyama's resentment of goku's heroics. reminder: this is the goku that when told by piccolo that gohan hates fighting and just wants goku to save him, forsakes the idea of a fair fight and tries to heal up so they can gang up on cell and finish the fight permanently. goku legitimately thought gohan would want this and that achieving this victory on his own would be good for gohan.
he meant overrated by fans which is absolutely true, people love posting shots of it in the movies then taking out of context shots from the early episodes of super and going "we used to be a real society what happened" and people will always come to its defence like you're doing right now whenever someone brings up it being useless and ugly
@@dankerbell people liking it despite its flaws doesnt make it overrated, also it may be useless but definitely not ugly, its one of the most majestic forms in dragon ball
@@romart03idk man it always looked goofy to me. The long hair just felt way too over the top and I know it’s dragonball but like even then it just felt a bit too much for me
@@rift3487 Thats the exact word I used in my comment. "Goofy".
It's one of the ugliest forms in all DB. I get everyone had different tastes but this is just... it just looks to dumb and silly and an R word I'm probably not allowed to say.
@@EndoScorpionwell you have bad taste but the good thing Is that is only your opinion.
4:51 carthu i'm like 99% sure you've mentioned somewhere that super saiyan 3 has the stamina drain when goku used it because when he got the form in the afterlife he didn't know it was so draining because, well he was dead...
And then we have my boy Vegeta using it AND giving SS3 a W
Mastered SSJ3
Crazy how only Cumber has done the form justice by actually mastering it. And he isn’t even canon. The way goku’s ssj3 hair didn’t move one bit when he brought it out in the TOP, you can tell they wrote it to be shafted because they didn’t want to draw and animate the hair. Hopefully gotenks (or goten and trunks individually) can master it if the animators find a way to draw it more easily or if they just get over it lol.
And ngl ssjg got shafted too
Also, they’re of course making it seem like caulifla will do ssj3 justice which would be nice. Although a big oversight is that ssj3 channels the oozaru’s power (which most people tend to forget) and universe 6 saiyans biologically don’t have anything to do with the great ape. But whatever
@@FirstNameLastName-gq4tb Are you sure it channels the oozaru’s power? Pretty sure it was just a visual spectacle more than anything just like how goku going mui was
@@Wizofmincraft yeah, goku’s and gotenks’ voices become rougher when in ssj3 and the loss of the eyebrows is to make them look more like the great ape. The original design of ssj3 even shows the tail grow back (which I wish happened), on top of the long hair and no eyebrows
@@Wizofmincraft there's no confirmation of it in canon that's for sure, everything he's said sounds a little speculative
facts, all that scream and he didn't regrow his tail seems like a missed opportunity
This thumbnail is making me start to wild out bro. Ssj and Ssjg thumb downing is so odd.
They’re the best saiyan transformations
@@MicerogGod is a good form, but It's not even top 3.
@@SuperDeleto it’s literally n.2 saiyan form after normal super saiyan, it has a huge story behind it, it is a gate to a whole new world of power, and most of all it’s the form that revived dragon ball, and to many fans, it’s the first form they actually watched being obtained.
And if you are about to say ssj4… just don’t… other than a kinda cool design it has nothing.
@@SuperDeleto It’s most definitely top 3 😂
@@Micerog The lore behind the form is great (though slightly confusing at times), and personally, I like it's design (especially the red, flame-like Aura). But the only reason I don't wanna put this form any higher than 4 is due to how poorly handled it was after BoG (mainly the anime. Manga SSG is actually pretty good). Another thing I don't like about the form is it's name. If it were called "saiyan god" instead, I think that'd make more sense considering the form still keeps Base Goku's hairstyle.
Great video, agree with the points.
But its introduction was so hype!
I always felt like Ss3 (and the buu arc as a whole) was toriyama having a laugh. Like he was parodying his own work.
@@nOT_sURE08 Toriyama wanted to end the story after Namek. But the series was so succesful. He was forced to do the Cell Saga. The fact he tried to kill Goku for good there was proof he was done. But again money made it go further into Buu and the poor writing was Toriyama being tired of his own work.
@@thelightseeker94 fr tori was just done with dragon ball Z
@@thelightseeker94 That's not true, Toriyama never wanted to end the manga until the end of the Buu saga. I believe this channel even covers it
@@BassLiberators All I have is hearsay, but I've seen it mentioned that Toriyama said in interviews that he wanted the more serious, battle shonen style of Z to end in Namek, and go back to Dragon Ball being a lighthearted "gag manga", but he was convinced by publishers to keep making new battle arcs, and also that "The Great Saiyaman" was the greatest compromise he could broker. Until he was again encouraged to go back to battle shonen and [try to] end Dragon Ball.
@@thelightseeker94literally where are you getting this information from Toriyama has never said any of that
Oh boy.. This is definitely going to cause a dilemma. Why do I feel like the finger is going to be pointed at SS3 when that form gets almost as much slander as Blue? I'm surprised SS4 isn't on there with how butthurt fans easily get when it comes to any criticism to the form. 🤔
Fr. I called ss4 overrated in a poll, in my opinion it is, and I got raided by a bunch of nostalgia meat riders acting like 9 year olds.
@@therealguyfr You'd be surprised at the other 2 or 3.
@@therealguyfr they just like it because it was pretty much the only new form in GT and looked kinda unique and cool.
@@therealguyfrThe problem is people associate something being overrated as bad which is not the case. Something can be overrated and good, people just look for any reason to argue. But you are right ss4 is overrated.
@@nerdy_boy2785 fr people hear overrated and think it means something is bad… some ppl need a dictionary on hand
From what I understand, and correct me if I'm wrong, but Goku didn't realize that super Saiyan 3 had those downsides at the time because they weren't present when he was both DEAD and IN OTHER WORD aka the after life... A dead Saiyan spirit in the realm where such Spirits are supposed to exist doesn't have any downsides to Super Saiyan 3, the downsides only started when Goku returned to earth, during which he had to comply with the laws of physics as they exist in the realm of the living...
Goku had zero idea his super Saiyan 3 form even HAD downsides because he developed it in other world after he died. This showed that Goku had been keeping up his training after he died, he just forgot about a few things that he hadn't encountered in a while....
"Typical kakarot" completely in character for him to make such a mistake...
Some people here don't know the difference between hating a form and overrating a form
My understanding was that while he was dead SSJ3 was a relatively flawless next level but it was Gokus living body that proved its undoing and introduces the stamina issue
Showing that the single individual thread of achievements Goku does, once brought into the real physical world doesn’t help solve problems nearly as well as trust in others and the next generation
8:59 hey I got that refrence
Back after watching, I agree tbh. Ssj3 should have TOTALLY been a gotenks exclusive, as in its definitely accessible by other characters like goku and vegeta, they just don’t use it, seeing its major flaws and issues and deciding to not even waste their time on it, moving on to their more powerfull, and sometimes even more efficient, SSGod forms, while goten and trunks use ssj3 as a kind of crutch until they can get stronger on their own.
THATS IT!! IVE HEARD ENOUGH
RELEASE THE RAIYUDEN
Danm bro
This didnt age well
Raiyuden gonna be so mad at you for this video lol
fr 😂
That's why I really like manga version of super saiyan blue
Hear me out
Super saiyan blue in the dbs manga is super saiyan 3 done right
They introduce this really powerful but very impractical form, that drains to much stamina and drops it's power to fast
So Goku and Vegeta try to come up with a way around this weakness by using super saiyan god and switching blue on and off during attacks
And then goku comes up with a better permanent solution by mastering super saiyan blue and releasing the form's full potential
And only after that we were introduced to a step forward with blue kaioken and blue evolution
He never used ssbk in the manga did he?
@@NoName...... Weeeeell he sorta did
During the tournament of power he does use something like that
He calls it kaioken blue (maybe I misremember the name, but there definitely was kaioken in it) but there is no red and blue aura like in the anime
@@NoName......he used a similar principal but yeah they should have just have him use ssbkk
@@EdgyTheHedgy891 he doesn’t use Kaioken blue in the manga. He just powers up and Krillin says it’s similar to the Kaioken, but it’s not the actual Kaioken. Also, SSB in the manga makes no sense. The form is supposed to be about perfect Ki control. Giving it a stamina problem is nonsensical. Idk why they even did that. Super Saiyan blue is just a poorly written and inconsistent transformation no matter which continuity.
@@farizr.batarai8271 It is Kaioken Blue. The manga guide and official website confirmed this. The manga version portrayed Kaioken more of a common principle of increase strength and speed from the user's reserve at the cost of stamina and hurting the user's body, unlike the anime where it was more of a specific technique.
SSJ3 is the coolest looking form. Fusion Reborn really showcases how dope it can look animated.
Why do i feel like Carthu and TotallyNotMark are literally the only people who understand this franchise
Lol cause unlike Dragon-ball Z "fans" they actually read and watch the source material instead of fan theories and out of context shorts.
Therapist: "Goku with a widow's peak isn't real. He can't hurt you."
Goku with a widow's peak: 0:12
There’s two kinds of anime fans of transformations.
Ones that are like, that are obsessed with the design so much they ignore the flaws of the story of why it should not exist.
Ones that actually care about why the transformation should exist regardless of design.
For me personally, I really don’t like six past Naruto’s design because I don’t agree with the story of why it exists. The design itself is cool, but I don’t like the story of it. So I can understand and relate to you.
Honestly keeping SSJ3 to be the kids’ exclusive form would be pretty cool, fusion or not. You’re onto something Carthu, I hope they keep it going!
I've always seen Goku not beating Buu with ssj3 as an enforcement of the fact that Buu couldn't be beaten with pure power and that it took teamwork in order to finish him off. It makes sense when you think about it.
@@RetroMagnus761 it makes sense when you think, something this guy doesn't do often.
makes sense but they didnt make any effort to tell that,makes me believe they didnt have that in mind
Except its made clear by goku not once but twice that SSJ3 goku COULD have beaten fat buu, which just makes it “man goku’s stupid.”
@@dreemurrprinceand then they slap this idea in the face as Goku couldn't beat Kid Buu,now imagine trying to beat a dumber super Buu (fat Buu initially) Goku would get bodied.
@@UninterestingPerson-to3jo well thats sort of different. Dead Goku could beat fat buu, and maybe even kid buu (heavy debatable but possible) but alive goku can’t. This is explained as SS3 being easier to use with a dead body.
unless im misunderstanding your reply in which case im being a dumbass so correct me
super saiyan 3 is literally considered a bad transformation IN UNIVERSE. it only worked well in the otherworld because of the downsides not being there.
Am i tweaking or was the thumbnail 2 gokus pointing at SS3 goku instead of vegeta and goku pointing at gotenks just 2 minutes ago??
it still is in his community post, sometimes youtubers change thumbnails because it helps with the algorithm but i also heard there's a system to upload multiple thumbnails so different people get different ones to help with attracting viewers
I called it. Now, I need one about SS4 all things considered with what you've explained. Cause it falls in a similar scenario.
It's crazy how Toei could come something incredible like SSJ4 and they FUMBLE it in the next arcs after the baby arc, it's ridiculous 💀
i mean ss4 is more like blue if it had build up since it quickly becomes the form goku uses when the weakest ennemy appears, like blue
@@Randomgoesbrrrrsaying its used against the weakest enemy is kinda a stretch considering GT scaling post baby arc where every villain is pretty much stronger that his base-ssj3 with a few exceptions like oceanus or haze shenron where he mainly fought in his base
trueee, ssj4 gets just as glazed if not more so because of the way it looks and the fact that gt fans really hate super so whenever someone mentions it they have to mention how much better ssj4 is than every single form in all of super
@@dankerbell GT fans are the masters of whataboutism
crazy how that one slight tweak from goku being the first to discover it to gotenks completely changes the narrative and actual makes it a better transformation.
I don't understand the decision of introducing a new transformation, hyping it up, then making it useless in-universe.
You could say the same about the Super Saiyan grades, but those were always supposed to suck. SJJ3 is supposed to be cool yet it isn't.
Yeah dragon ball is notorious for doing that lol 😂
I think it was cool. Dragon ball super just made it lame
@@MustacheDLuffy it was always lame. It’s basically the Kaioken of Ssj forms: Pointless in the grand scheme of things.
@@MustacheDLuffy it wasn't just super tho lol. The form has BEEN had its flaws. I mean yeah it gets outright replaced in super and GT, but even before either of those came out, the form didn't achieve much (outside of movies), was flawed asf, forced, and does some damage to the story itself.
Let's not act like a lot of the criticism towards ssj3 is because of super 😭
@@blacklivesorblackvotes2985 kaoi ken works well when it’s stacked
I absolutely agree with the Gotenks thing, if they were to unlock ssj3 instead of goku, it would just be a better fit and it doesn't ruin goku as a character, then again most of the buu saga was pretty messed up, but i still like it lol.
It's funny how vegeta uses ssj3 now and uses it right
I never understood the transformation sequence of SSJ3. The cuts to goku as a kid and then as a great ape make literally 0 sense in relation to the transformation
It was just to look cool.
Super Saiyan 3 is not worst, it's the least best
honestly good way of putting it because even if it's my least favourite form, i do love the transformation scenes a lot
So it’s the worst. Nice try tho.
whats the worst in your opinion?? mine is ssb
@@noobsysysBeast
It’s not the least best. That would imply it’s good. It’s not. However, yes, it’s not the worst. Super Saiyan blue is, but you’re coping with this word play tbh.
THANK YOU! I knew I wasn't alone in thinking this!
Super Sayin 3 is meaningful to me because its the first form that really captured Goku's Angelic personality he had throughout all of DB and DBZ into a Power Up form. He usually had his halo up alot of the time in SSj3.
As a power up its an energy burner 1 shot K.O. form in IMO; w/o an other world body.
SSJ3 contradicts what Goku figured out in the time chamber, I love mastered SSJ as someone who does martial arts and spars I love how they applied real logic to the forms. Getting stronger doesn’t mean you automatically win but SSJ3 ruins all that set up and what Goku learned in favor of a cool form. At least that’s what I think
One of the things I love about ssj3 is the fact that goku learned it through pure training. Using what ssj2 left him, he pushed those boundaries and surpassed it through pure power, but the unnatural limit breaking forces it to take so much energy.
I expect a apology
0:03 "don't leave an angry comment or a death threat" 😂💀
“YET-“
I'm still thinking the final fight should've been mythic Gohan. To me it's another Problem of the Boo saga that this form gets introduced and that just falls flat. There was the potential of Gohan learning to overcome his arrogance which costed him the first fight. Heck in a Manga that isn't that focused on powerlevel Gohan would've actually have the chance to be the smart and analytic fighter who finds some sort of weakness of Boo which can than be used by Goku to defeat Boo. (Which would be anotger character growth for Goku accepting help in a fight)
Toriyama hated drawing ssj3 hair Is also the reason why Raditz didn’t get revived, Long Hair
probably also the same reason Cell never got brought back often, all the different spots on him must've been a freaking nightmare
LMAO. the betrayed and trapped in the time chamber really killed me XD
I love your work Carthu, keep it up! You always make my day with these videos!
Honestly i could have forgiven, SS3 if they explained it as, a halfway point to somthing greater.
Like SS grade 3 to SS2, he didn't want to talk about it or use it because it wasnt pratical and he didn’t want to show or even alude it to being possbile until he found something better.
0:33 pause and look
What am I looking at?
@@Dazencustomerhis butt
😂
Why does he look like that
Underrated comment☝🏾
The only reason SSJ3 didn't get the love it deserved was that the animators didn't want to struggle with this form. That's it. But to be honest, it would've been so much better to have proper SSJ3 than just switching colors with each new form. This is like the og ME3 ending all over again. The plot boils down to what color of hair they have, that's it.
Ok but you're forgetting that SSJ3 had the coolest transformation theme song, therefore your argument is invalid.
Invalid until Dragon Ball New Hope and Ultra Vegito made the form truly matter. More so than Wrath of the Dragon of all movies
I personally like the form, for some reason, but it is so bad 💀 the fact that he couldn’t even beat any of the buu forms with it, (except for fat buu cause he didn’t want too.) makes it seem on par with Ssj 2. It was a very random idea, cause before he said he was going all out against Vegeta, but NOPE! He Has SSJ 3 Now! It would have been better if it didn’t exist, even though I like it.
I mean there's an obvious reason why you like it.
It looks cool.
Like the guy said above me, you can like a form for how it looks and not how it performs.
I 100% agree that the animators didn't want to draw all that hair.
Also, Goku is a flippin' idiot for not using instant transmission to get the dragon radar instead of sending Trunks.
Bro dropping slander on my birthday 😭
happy birthday!!
🎉🎉🎉
🎉🎉🎉
happy birthday (you will receive a carthu video as a present)
Happy birthday!
That’s exactly how I felt. Tbh never was a fan of ssj3. I love the look but it hardly used and Gonu never mastered it. People say ssj3 was made irrelevant in super but it wasn’t really relevant in z either
Well damn, now I'd like to see a full What If-style rundown on that pitch you made at the end. How everything from the Buu Saga onward would be rewritten to account for Goten and Trunks being the ones to discover Super Saiyan 3.
I disagree. Ssj3 narratively portrays super Saiyan in general has reached its limit, Goku didn't use it against Vegeta because he knew it would make his time on earth run dry quicker and only pulled it out against buu to stall. Goku didn't want to just beat Buu he wanted to find the successor to himself (because he's dead and can't be relied on to save the earth). Goku only finds out about the stamina drain effects of it after he becomes alive again because being dead he had unlimited stamina so it wasn't an issue. The conclusion of the arc basically teaches the audience and Goku that the hardest battles need to be fought together and can't be won alone via the spirit bomb and vegita and Hercule helping. Ssj3 specifically makes the arc work imo.
Ssj3 is my favorite transformation for the same reasons I like pre timeskip Luffy's gears, they're powerful but come with a drawback or a side effect (why I like kaioken aswell). It would be dumb if all the sudden Goku got past the drawbacks of the form and could use it effortlessly it would just make it the same as the other 2 but just looks different. Imo ssj blue Is wayyy more boring and overrated. Stylistically its just a hair color change and doesn't do anything narratively other than just show that oh they trained and are stronger than regular ssj God but in doing that just makes ssj god completely irrelevant. I liked in battle of the gods that after the god ritual ran out Goku didn't notice and was still fighting at a higher strength despite only being ssj1 but that was completely thrown out as a concept in favor of oh his hair is blue now and he's stronger. Idk it's lame and ssj3 the goat
But goku clearly prioritized saving earth above his 1 day trip. He shouldn’t have any issue with using ss3 to save the day. Even the whole " I wanted the kids to do it" thing comes in later and barely makes sense since Goku comes back again to save the day.
@@JayJay-mk9xgYeah Goku comes back because no one successor can save the day. Goku also fails to beat pure Boo by himself. It’s everyone on Earth working together that beats Boo in the end.
It can't be overrated if it's overhated
No, idk about that, super saiyan blue overcome that of hated
it's not overhated because people like you immediately jump to its defence when someone suggests that good transformation scenes don't make a good form, it should be hated but it isn't
@dankerbell
Super saiyan blue, got hated because it overshadow super saiyan god, broke powerscale, lose so much,
Super saiyan 3, lose once didn't beat main villain, have movie that have sick line and badass look and was loved and gt show how powerful it is
6:38 what I also like about ultimate is that beast Gohan is an evolved form of ultimate (another reference to ssj2 Gohan in the cell saga) but it also shows gohans way of gaining power as a half saiyan as opposed to goku and vegeta gaining god ki
What if instead of stalling with SS3, Goku pulled Kaio-ken on top of SS/SS2?
SS3 is x4 boost from SS2 (or x8 from SS1), so Goku use a KK boost to fight off Buu for a bit, and still lose time from his "resurrection" (I know he still is death) because of the amount of strain in his body.
Only issue would be the Kid Buu fight, but simply have Goku and Vegeta team up. Afterall, when Goku was charging the spirit bomb, Vegeta was stalling for him
That's actually a pretty cool idea, with the note that he can only do it because he's dead already, because otherwise kaio-ken on top of anything else should straight up kill you, this to explain why we never see it before or after.
But kaioken will drain more energy if its stacked with other forms
Goku in frieza arc used kaioken times ten for a long time
In super, Kaioken drained more energy stack up with ssj blue + kaioken cant be stacked with ssj because they need differend emotions to activate
Kaioken is only used by pure hearts
Ssj by evil
SSJ3 being a form only Gotenks can achieve also makes sense considering how much stronger fusion should be than Goku but also it being the strongest Super saiyan form canonically can also be a reason as of why it's unstable
7:27 I'm hoping either Kale or Caulifla would LEARN SSJ3 and make it better, with development, and scenes showing them mastering the form would be more than enough to get SSJ3 out of this gutter.
Hey Carthu I’m guessing you know about Sparkling Zero and the what if goku went super saiyan in the saiyan saga what’s your thoughts on it since you did that already
SSJ3 is a “gamble it all” not used for the full fight, Gotenks’s SSJ3 can beat Buu he just got too proud
You definitely made some good points I didn't think of. I did always have a hunch it's useless especially if it is meant to be quick finish. Like you said, the movies even use it better. Goku goes SS3, DRAGON FIST, BAM.
can you make a vid were you rewrite dragon ball keeping all core stuff in the show but fixing anything you thought weird or fixing plot holes
Nah he would f it up
carthu you should do “what is goku landed on brolys planet?” i think it would be pretty interesting
he'd die to the monsters on vampa or be killed by paragus. i made a short about it awhile back
@@CarthusDojo oh well at least you replied
One more thing that would improve your SSJ3 use idea, is that if SSJ simpy required far more training to use than the other forms. That would make Gotenk's SSJ3 kinda like a sunk cost fallacy where nobody else wants to use it since it requires so much training, but Gotenks doesn't want to stop training and improving it because he's already so invested in it to the point where it does become good. It would keep it as a form mostly for him, while also making it useful.
Raiyuden crying watching this video.