There are varying types of speed warnings and they can be extremely loud, but also realize that the warnings follow a preprogrammed priority scheme based on which is the most immediate risk. If you’re only a few hundred feet away from the ground, for example, a speed warning is already too late for you to be able to put on enough speed.
@@The_ZeroLine A terrain warning doesn't sound when it's too late to take corrective action. If a speed warning is smart enough to turn a little gage red, it should be smart enough to turn the whole dash red.
Competent pilots monitor speed and altitude closely during the approach and landing. There isn’t a need for warnings with competent pilots. Part of the problem with automation and warnings is it makes pilots complacent and dependent on the systems rather than the other way around.
@cj137 SMITH Precisely. I have been flying since 1977. Any pilot who let’s his airspeed get below stall speed other than when practicing stalls, is not competent. Period.
Boeing blames pilots ... .. even though they had 2568 complaints about that altimeter system. Boeing solution; “just shut it off and fly the plane.” Here is another solution Boeing ... fix the faulty altimeter system.
How do you fix something when you can’t figure out what the problem is? TAL replaced literally ever part of the system they could think of, and even used different part types, but that didn’t fix it. Boeing should’ve done a complete redesign
Always cheaper to blame the pilots for having the audacity to assume that the automation Boeing puts in their planes will actually work as intended. Shame on Boeing for not putting a few extra bucks per plane to have the automation take data from multiple sensors like the pilots are able to do in the case of a disagreement between the readings coming from the sensors. If they had actually changed this practice, they wouldn't have had those MAX 8 crashes either.
Again, the warning device (stick shaker) didn’t kick in until it was too late to be of use. Why are all these alert devices so delayed as to be useless (same with ground proximity, etc.)?
Years ago we only can read in Aviation Magazine about planes crash reasons. One thing I remember was, the pilot looking for airport or trying to fly under the clouds mostly, autopilot can't make landing, you have to switch.
Computer think: "We're 8 feet underground, better reduce speed"". Based on this and Apple's autocorrect AI, we don't have to worry about robots taking over anytime soon.
This is what we get when we hire confident optimists for science and technology positions because a skeptical pessimist probably would have thought of this potential problem and designed the system accordingly. Put the optimists in the sales department and the pessimists in charge of designing the technology.
@@whoever6458 I guess America is going back to the Moon In Three years. That's why Gas Prices Are Rising. To Pay To Look For Oil And Silver On The Moon.
I’d love to be one of the recreation actors shaking my head gravely. I’d like to try all the different shakes: “nope, this isn’t the source,” “can you believe the maintenance team did this?,” “look at this, poor bastards never had a chance,” “I don’t get it, everything looks fine!” and so on.
They never shake gravely enough, but with that sort of thirst for innovation, you could have simultaneously advanced the art of air accident reenactment and been lauded with awards. Probably an Air Oscar or whatever they give for that sort of thing.
@@tiny_toilet LMAO. The ACE awards can double as a cable / aviation award ceremony. They’ve got the bandwidth. I’d like to see Christopher Walken do the reenactments.
This sounds a bit similar to the fiasco with the 737 MAX 8 in that the automation was running off of only one of the available sensors. If you have a plane that has a sensor for the captains side, a sensor for the copilot's side, and a third back-up sensor to which to compare the other two and figure out which one is faulty in the case of a problem, then any automation governing these same systems should be fed exactly the same information and for the exact same reasons. This kind of thing would be neither costly nor difficult to do and lots of lives would have been saved if this had been in place but Boeing would rather keep the extra few dollars in profits per plane from not setting things up this way, even if it costs hundreds of lives because, here in the US, if you have enough money, you can pay to be above any law or regulation.
I find it ironic that Boeing's commercial aircraft want humans making the decisions in the cockpit and yet they are groundbreaking in unmanned arial vehicle technology. Yet Airbus seems to be taking that technological initiative in the commercial aircraft business.
because airbus has had many crashes contributed to solely by the failure of the planes electronics literally taking over and overriding the pilots and crashing planes. Boeing is keeping it in the pilots hands because automation creates more accidents than it prevents when it breaks
The system just needs a comparator circuit that when one Radar Altimeter is not agreeing with the other the pilot gets a warning and the auto throttle is disconnected automatically. Boeing is trying so hard to avoid spending money on engineering and certification that their airplanes are becoming dangerous to fly. The pilots not reading the airspeed is also shocking.
So...this is the second episode where we find out the manufacturer sets up the automated system to not look at both pilot and co-pilot systems and advise when a conflict exists. ...the result? A crash. ((The other episode was the blocked pitot tube.))
Boeing: Everything on this plane is redundant and so no one failure can cause a crash. Also Boeing: Here’s a computerized system with full authority to crash the plane and only takes one input from a system that has redundancy.
Why wasn't automation disabled when data disagrees? Guess we haven't learned much since then and continue making more automation based on a single input (the max, I'm looking at you)
I am agree and if I was a pilotI would prefer this: “Human should fly the aircraft, robot just needs to help, and human still watches and controls what the computer doing and should be able to turn it of and take over the control any time”.
With all this advanced technology and automation, HOWWW is there not audible warnings when the plane is getting slow enough to be nearing stall speed? With one simple audible alert, this crew could have saved their aircraft and 9 lives. It is their fault they weren't monitoring the instruments, but that delivers 0 comfort to the families of those who died, and 0 comfort to the survivors.
First of all there are audible warnings when the plane is about to stall. Not only that, but there is a stick shaker that also activates. In this case they were in landing mode and too low to save the plane. Second, the plane was landing. It was doing exactly what it was programmed to do. Land the plane. Of all the people that could be blamed for this, the pilots are NOT the ones to blame. Boeing, maintenance crews, air traffic controllers etc. But not the pilots. They were doing what they were supposed to be doing which is going through their landing checklists.
Cockpit trouble? I've never flown. But I heard this a few times in my day. Been up in several planes as a passenger. While in the military. But never in the cockpit.
If you like these recreations, check out Mentor Pilot’s channel. He does a far more detailed and advanced job of explaining everything that happened. It’s fascinating.
Now. I am not a pilot. Even I would know to check the speed. It's built in to anybody who has ever driven a self powered vehicle. I ride a bicycle since 1958, "Awareness of speed" is crucial to not dying. Of course on a bicycle your body is controlling the speed. Krikee.
And they want planes totally automated, eventually without pilots at all? No thanks, I'll never fly again when that happens. Problems with computers are caught far more often than not. No pilot = computer failures result in crashes every time.
Are airplanes to complex. I've tended to believe that. The number of parts in one of those things must be staggeringly high. Just a casual observer. Do the production requirements ever get challenged?
Technology out of control!!! Bring back pilots that no how to fly an airplane, by interpreting their instruments, all of them. Bring an end to this repeated controlled flight into the ground with malfunctioning automatic flight.
The fundamental problem is incompetent pilots in the cockpit. All of the technology in the world will not correct that. The only way to remove that is to have fully autonomous airplanes and then you simply move the incompetence to a different set of humans: the system and software engineers.
Excessive A. I. (artificial intelligence) is a big problem. The 737-Max accidents are again proof of that. Planes are not tech toys. But many AI people approach it that way (without acknowledging it, of course). Besides, so many failure reports on the radio altimeters ; and Boeing was unable to figure out why !!! And not to have a very close eye on the altimeter on a final approach (especially with a faulty one on board) is a huge mistake that has happened so many times. Unfortunate indeed !
Actually the tech is fine. The problem is you are trying to fit tech into a cockpit that still thinks its 1920ish, i.e. pilot first and automation second. The better way would be automation first, then pilot. Regardless though, it appears that this was, again, a Boeing fault. The system was obviously defective and given it was a flight system, should have been given a higher priority.
The failure history of this manufacturers RA product is completely unacceptable and failed to get proper engineering failure analysis. After multiple unresolved squaks red flags should have gone up about it. Did the RA failure genesis ever get clearly identified?
What I don’t get is why these videos begin with the investigation? Why not start with the accident, what actually happened? When I see this I stop watching immediately. Note to the people putting these up - you’re losing a lot of viewers. 20 minutes long is another red flag. Impossible to do these things justice at anything less then 40 min IMO. I’m now aware of the fact they show part one a few days before the second part. Makes no difference folks - still drives me nuts and I won’t watch it split in half. Period. Also, MAYDAY! used to post the full 45 min. episode at one time. I guess those days are gone for good. Well, in that case, so am I.
Hey Sabrina, this channel posted the first half of this episode yesterday. Yes, they split the episodes which is kind of annoying, but so far, they've been pretty good about making sure to post the second half of any given episode the day after they post the first half.
people are so fucking entitled. You don't like the way they split the video, go watch it elsewhere. They're posting the episodes online for free, try and be a little grateful
What has been your favorite episode so far on the OFFICIAL Mayday: Air Disaster channel? Watch part 1 here: th-cam.com/video/rIC7lGYfZMc/w-d-xo.html
Warnings are always so subtle on airplanes. Speed warnings should turn your whole screen red, instead of a tiny box.
There are varying types of speed warnings and they can be extremely loud, but also realize that the warnings follow a preprogrammed priority scheme based on which is the most immediate risk. If you’re only a few hundred feet away from the ground, for example, a speed warning is already too late for you to be able to put on enough speed.
@@The_ZeroLine A terrain warning doesn't sound when it's too late to take corrective action.
If a speed warning is smart enough to turn a little gage red, it should be smart enough to turn the whole dash red.
Competent pilots monitor speed and altitude closely during the approach and landing. There isn’t a need for warnings with competent pilots. Part of the problem with automation and warnings is it makes pilots complacent and dependent on the systems rather than the other way around.
@cj137 SMITH Nope, competent pilots don’t let themselves get distracted, especially when there are two of them.
@cj137 SMITH Precisely. I have been flying since 1977. Any pilot who let’s his airspeed get below stall speed other than when practicing stalls, is not competent. Period.
Boeing blames pilots ...
.. even though they had 2568 complaints about that altimeter system. Boeing solution; “just shut it off and fly the plane.”
Here is another solution Boeing ... fix the faulty altimeter system.
How do you fix something when you can’t figure out what the problem is?
TAL replaced literally ever part of the system they could think of, and even used different part types, but that didn’t fix it.
Boeing should’ve done a complete redesign
they never came to an conclusion as to why, what if it was caused by maintenance or secondary add ons?
Can we say M-C-A-S????? Same crap...blaming the people and not the fact that they had a bad system and poor training on the bad system.
Where have we heard this more recently??? Hmmmm!
Always cheaper to blame the pilots for having the audacity to assume that the automation Boeing puts in their planes will actually work as intended. Shame on Boeing for not putting a few extra bucks per plane to have the automation take data from multiple sensors like the pilots are able to do in the case of a disagreement between the readings coming from the sensors. If they had actually changed this practice, they wouldn't have had those MAX 8 crashes either.
Again, the warning device (stick shaker) didn’t kick in until it was too late to be of use. Why are all these alert devices so delayed as to be useless (same with ground proximity, etc.)?
Years ago we only can read in Aviation Magazine about planes crash reasons. One thing I remember was, the pilot looking for airport or trying to fly under the clouds mostly, autopilot can't make landing, you have to switch.
Computer think: "We're 8 feet underground, better reduce speed"".
Based on this and Apple's autocorrect AI, we don't have to worry about robots taking over anytime soon.
This is what we get when we hire confident optimists for science and technology positions because a skeptical pessimist probably would have thought of this potential problem and designed the system accordingly. Put the optimists in the sales department and the pessimists in charge of designing the technology.
@@whoever6458 I guess America is going back to the Moon In Three years. That's why Gas Prices Are Rising. To Pay To Look For Oil And Silver On The Moon.
It the the device has a 5 foot margin of error a -8 reading could be used to signify a guaranty of being grounded
This is one of the best episodes IMO.
I’d love to be one of the recreation actors shaking my head gravely. I’d like to try all the different shakes: “nope, this isn’t the source,” “can you believe the maintenance team did this?,” “look at this, poor bastards never had a chance,” “I don’t get it, everything looks fine!” and so on.
They never shake gravely enough, but with that sort of thirst for innovation, you could have simultaneously advanced the art of air accident reenactment and been lauded with awards. Probably an Air Oscar or whatever they give for that sort of thing.
@@tiny_toilet LMAO. The ACE awards can double as a cable / aviation award ceremony. They’ve got the bandwidth. I’d like to see Christopher Walken do the reenactments.
Not amused
5:49 When you're enjoying your day but someone decides to throw some shade
This sounds a bit similar to the fiasco with the 737 MAX 8 in that the automation was running off of only one of the available sensors. If you have a plane that has a sensor for the captains side, a sensor for the copilot's side, and a third back-up sensor to which to compare the other two and figure out which one is faulty in the case of a problem, then any automation governing these same systems should be fed exactly the same information and for the exact same reasons. This kind of thing would be neither costly nor difficult to do and lots of lives would have been saved if this had been in place but Boeing would rather keep the extra few dollars in profits per plane from not setting things up this way, even if it costs hundreds of lives because, here in the US, if you have enough money, you can pay to be above any law or regulation.
I find it ironic that Boeing's commercial aircraft want humans making the decisions in the cockpit and yet they are groundbreaking in unmanned arial vehicle technology. Yet Airbus seems to be taking that technological initiative in the commercial aircraft business.
because airbus has had many crashes contributed to solely by the failure of the planes electronics literally taking over and overriding the pilots and crashing planes. Boeing is keeping it in the pilots hands because automation creates more accidents than it prevents when it breaks
@@pilsplease7561 Max
7:44 Did they censor something here? Half the screen is blacked out and you can see his arm clipping into the dark area. Its been painted over
The system just needs a comparator circuit that when one Radar Altimeter is not agreeing with the other the pilot gets a warning and the auto throttle is disconnected automatically. Boeing is trying so hard to avoid spending money on engineering and certification that their airplanes are becoming dangerous to fly. The pilots not reading the airspeed is also shocking.
So...this is the second episode where we find out the manufacturer sets up the automated system to not look at both pilot and co-pilot systems and advise when a conflict exists.
...the result? A crash.
((The other episode was the blocked pitot tube.))
9:45 Hey man, what did the flare mode do to insult you? No need to call it names like that.
Boeing: Everything on this plane is redundant and so no one failure can cause a crash.
Also Boeing: Here’s a computerized system with full authority to crash the plane and only takes one input from a system that has redundancy.
The good thing about being poor is I can’t afford to fly anywhere
LOL I hear ya🤣🤣🤣
I was supposed to fly a bunch of places in 2020. Ireland, Russia. Covid made that impossible. After watching these, maybe I am lucky 🍀
Again, an automatic depended on only a single one sensor, like MCAS. Imho, it doesn't matter it would recoverable by the crew at this time.
Why wasn't automation disabled when data disagrees? Guess we haven't learned much since then and continue making more automation based on a single input (the max, I'm looking at you)
I am agree and if I was a pilotI would prefer this: “Human should fly the aircraft, robot just needs to help, and human still watches and controls what the computer doing and should be able to turn it of and take over the control any time”.
With all this advanced technology and automation, HOWWW is there not audible warnings when the plane is getting slow enough to be nearing stall speed?
With one simple audible alert, this crew could have saved their aircraft and 9 lives.
It is their fault they weren't monitoring the instruments, but that delivers 0 comfort to the families of those who died, and 0 comfort to the survivors.
First of all there are audible warnings when the plane is about to stall. Not only that, but there is a stick shaker that also activates. In this case they were in landing mode and too low to save the plane.
Second, the plane was landing. It was doing exactly what it was programmed to do. Land the plane.
Of all the people that could be blamed for this, the pilots are NOT the ones to blame. Boeing, maintenance crews, air traffic controllers etc. But not the pilots. They were doing what they were supposed to be doing which is going through their landing checklists.
Again how does a state of the art Boeing 737 just fall out the air
Cockpit trouble? I've never flown. But I heard this a few times in my day. Been up in several planes as a passenger. While in the military. But never in the cockpit.
If you watched the video, you'd know. Lack of air speed/faulty computer setting due to incorrect altimeter. Part mechanical fault, part human error.
@@evanb.529 I did
Yay first like and comment. Love this show. Great work to all the producers and people who made the show.
No one cares respect the victims who died
If you like these recreations, check out Mentor Pilot’s channel. He does a far more detailed and advanced job of explaining everything that happened. It’s fascinating.
@@The_ZeroLine thank you. I'll definitely look into it.
@@ReyRey_Plays hey, broken record, stop telling me that. Leave me alone. Thanks. Happy holidays.
Another Boeing 737 800 incident!
Now. I am not a pilot. Even I would know to check the speed. It's built in to anybody who has ever driven a self powered vehicle. I ride a bicycle since 1958, "Awareness of speed" is crucial to not dying. Of course on a bicycle your body is controlling the speed. Krikee.
Could pilots set 'bugs' on minimum altitude, speed...?
Please FULL VIDEO AEROFLOAT 821
@@animegeek2488 it's been posted before
@@animegeek2488 oh ok
So the 737-8 has been dropping out of the skies for years now
if we are not careful, someday a pilot is gonna call in sick and fly one these virtually using go-to-my-pc. from his couch. 🥶
I wonder what make this plane is that is having problems again? 🤔
And they want planes totally automated, eventually without pilots at all? No thanks, I'll never fly again when that happens. Problems with computers are caught far more often than not. No pilot = computer failures result in crashes every time.
Are airplanes to complex.
I've tended to believe that. The number of parts in one of those things must be staggeringly high. Just a casual observer.
Do the production requirements ever get challenged?
Technology out of control!!! Bring back pilots that no how to fly an airplane, by interpreting their instruments, all of them. Bring an end to this repeated controlled flight into the ground with malfunctioning automatic flight.
Boeing engineers apparently don't know what they're doing.
The fundamental problem is incompetent pilots in the cockpit. All of the technology in the world will not correct that. The only way to remove that is to have fully autonomous airplanes and then you simply move the incompetence to a different set of humans: the system and software engineers.
Excessive A. I. (artificial intelligence) is a big problem. The 737-Max accidents are again proof of that. Planes are not tech toys. But many AI people approach it that way (without acknowledging it, of course). Besides, so many failure reports on the radio altimeters ; and Boeing was unable to figure out why !!! And not to have a very close eye on the altimeter on a final approach (especially with a faulty one on board) is a huge mistake that has happened so many times. Unfortunate indeed !
Bummer already seen this…wish there could be some new ones that you would upload or that the crash investigation channels could upload. Bummer
Actually the tech is fine. The problem is you are trying to fit tech into a cockpit that still thinks its 1920ish, i.e. pilot first and automation second. The better way would be automation first, then pilot.
Regardless though, it appears that this was, again, a Boeing fault. The system was obviously defective and given it was a flight system, should have been given a higher priority.
Planes are too complex vehicles are too complex and people are going to keep getting hurt
AYO I SAW MY CITY IN THERE LETS GO
Human sacrifice it is called.
Better question have they fixed the altimeter, I assume so. I do not blame the pilots what do you think.
The failure history of this manufacturers RA product is completely unacceptable and failed to get proper engineering failure analysis. After multiple unresolved squaks red flags should have gone up about it. Did the RA failure genesis ever get clearly identified?
This is mainly the 3 bozos, blind pilots' fault. 100%. Incompetent crew.
Only fly Airbus.....got it.
Airbus has its own issues
No one is flying the plane same old thing
THE COMPUTER HAS A FLAW IN ITS LOGIC SYSTEM
Mr. Spock would NOT approve of that kind of logic...it's NOT logical.
I'm extremely good at monitoring. I see trends and seek answers, why why why why why? Keep asking why you will solve all the problems
Boeing continues to put out garbage.
They bought their parts from eBay
Boeing knows pilots are there too n they want them to shut the dammm system n fly the plane …..then y is it there in first place 🤔
Excess advertisements, every five minutes,
No; I do Not have money for youdoone premium, face reality and Deal With It,
What I don’t get is why these videos begin with the investigation? Why not start with the accident, what actually happened?
When I see this I stop watching immediately. Note to the people putting these up - you’re losing a lot of viewers.
20 minutes long is another red flag. Impossible to do these things justice at anything less then 40 min IMO.
I’m now aware of the fact they show part one a few days before the second part.
Makes no difference folks - still drives me nuts and I won’t watch it split in half.
Period.
Also, MAYDAY! used to post the full 45 min. episode at one time.
I guess those days are gone for good.
Well, in that case, so am I.
they come in two parts. they upload each part on different days of the week. they've probably already uploaded the first part earlier in the week.
Hey Sabrina, this channel posted the first half of this episode yesterday. Yes, they split the episodes which is kind of annoying, but so far, they've been pretty good about making sure to post the second half of any given episode the day after they post the first half.
They post part 1 on Mondays and part 2 on Wednesdays.
@@habibfeghali1261 hey Habib, I want to watch the whole episode at one time! What part of that don’t you get?🙄
people are so fucking entitled. You don't like the way they split the video, go watch it elsewhere. They're posting the episodes online for free, try and be a little grateful
Number 10th comment
No one cares respect the victims who died