Please understand that all of my reviews are completely subjective. They are my opinion and not to be taken as criticism or as negative. I can only share my feelings and personal conclusions. The J3 Pro shares it basic architecture with it sibling the J2S socketed AK4499EXEQ + AK4191EQ hybrid DAC implementation. It has been redesigned to accommodate the much larger Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 op-amps. Geno Geshelli also updated the circuit design with an improved internal power supply, an improve oscillator chip and a relay switched USB board.
Thanks again because your insights and explanations help form my outlook on my gear. I buy new gear every month. My mantra is Concert everyday and Christmas every month. Inadvertently your input generated a purchase of digital to digital help for my Wiim Ultra. This video has me targeting a purchase of the Geshelli J3. I have a J2 with Burson Vivid but I missed the hint that the 4499 chip was the way to go. That decision would have allowed me to scale my DAC exponentially. Anyways, instead of a new set of passive headphones...I'm going all in on a keeper DAC. Anytime I can support OUR friends at Geshelli Labs is a good thing.
Thank you so much. That's kind of you to say. I am glad you are interested in my content. There will be a good one coming up this weekend on vintage German speakers.
Excellent video, Ed! You have *nailed* what I am also hearing in these DACs. I now have the eight SS2590 op-amps installed in my Dayzee - and it is *by far* the best DAC I have ever heard. You're a "natural" at this - very informative, and direct.
@@OldGuyHifi The thought has crossed my mind! I will be shipping the first Tower 6 flat pack tomorrow, and MLTL-6 flat packs have been shipping for a while now. I *just* revised the crossovers for the dome tweeter versions, and I think it is better than what I had at AXPONA. The cabinet of the Tower 6 has also been revised - and the bass is better AND extends to *25Hz* vs 28Hz for the prototype.
@@morgande I think they deserve something better then the Fosis as nice as those are. I would like to run them on the Orchard Audio amp. BTW I am getting that back.
This is the video that got me hooked on your channel. I was curious what folks had to say about the J3 Pro, found this video, and immediately subscribed. I'm very impressed by your knowledge and how you explain things so clearly. Keep up the fantastic work!
Not really. The USB boards are the same programing. On the J3 Pro and the Dayzee it has a relay circuit that can be shut down when there is no incoming signal. Sonically, I could detect no real difference but, that's just me. I will ask Geno when I see him next week. Thx.
Excellent review! Thank you for clearly explaining the technical details of the DAC chips and not assuming that your audience are all hardware engineers. I have a great ear, but I'm stupid. This was the first video I watched of your channel and will subscribe based just on this. Keep it going!
Earlier in 2024 I did not wait for the J3 and got the J2 socketed. 4499 chip and Burson V7 Classic op amps, single ended only. My seventh DAC in 25 years. I was concerned about Burson V7 Vivid due to my Klipsch Chorus II horn speakers. I use Tidal through a Blusound Node and a Tascam transport. Both sound excellent, but Tidal HD recordings are exceptional. Geshelli J2 socketed DAC goes great with Conrad Johnson PV12B preamp and KT-88 amplification. Great reviews!
Nice job, Ed. Im about to get my first DAC, and I believe the J3 will be the one. I always appreciate your reviews. I was born in '62 and raised outside Chicago, so maybe that's why I can relate to your channel. I'm in Dallas now. Thanks again, my windy city friend.
Where? I have been in Naperville for 63 of my 65 years. I am glad you are enjoying the videos. I hope you enjoy the J3 as much as I did/do. Thank you so much.
I, too, was born in ‘62 in a western suburb of Chicago where I grew up buying gear at Pacific Stereo and Sounds Deluxe. I still live in the area today.
Ed I am a bit confused as to relative merits of the changes in the board and clock upgrades of the J3 with stock op amps and Sparkos upgrades. Bang for sounds like if one were willing to restrict it to single ended the J2 might deliver the goods with the double chip.Anyway I'll watch it again. Your rapidly becoming one of the reviewers that is in the top tier for me.Oh yeah and I think it was Randy over at Cheapaudioman that said that you had hipped hi to using a DAC as a re-clocker out of a Wiim before the main DAC and that one can't screw up the sound,that you can multiple re clocker etc.If you can do your own video on that (or maybe I missed it) or swapping out clocks that would be great.Have a great and successful 2025 I'll be here with 'ya
Thanks for your review! I look forward to your thoughts when you get the Dayzee in. Everybody really seems to like the Geshelli so it’s nice to see it confirmed by an expert. If and when I upgrade my DAC I want it to be a Geshelli. I’m currently using an Audioquest dragonfly red.
Michael, I also have a Dragonfly Red! I use it on my phone with IEMs. Good DAC. I would love to review a Dayzee. Who knows maybe. Thanks so much for your view and comment.
Ed: Great review that was concise and easy to follow and understand. I upgraded my Geshelli J2S from the Sparkos SS3602 to the Sparkos SS2590 this week. You are 100% correct in your evaluation. Even my 76 year old "stone deaf" ears could hear the dramatic improvement! My system of ELAC UFR52 tower speakers, EMOTIVA 135 watt receiver and ONKYO CD changer sound unbelievable. All aspects are markedly improved and I am hearing things I have not heard before. Chris G. San Diego.
Chris, That's awesome. I am so glad you are enjoying the sound. Gear that can put a smile on your face is a real kick, Thanks for watching and sharing your experience.
@@ChrisGarrett-q1x hey Chris, fellow J2S user here, thinking about upgrading to the 2590 on the unbalanced output. Were there any special connectors needed or was it a simple swap out?
@@moremeditations3622 I'm not sure I understand balanced vs. unbalanced, so here is what was done. My previous amp did not have XLR, only RCA connection. Because of this I only have 1 of the 2590 op amps. There were no special connectors and fit perfectly in place of the 3602. Forgot to mention that I also upgraded to the AKM 4490 chip set. This was done by Geshelli. Sent it to Geshelli for the install. This was also another great improvement in sound. I hope this helps.
Amazing review and information about DAC circuitry and chippers. Much appreciated. I may have to consider a J3 some time, but looking at a ladder DAC next in this kind of price range, but still aways out. Thank you as always for your time, efforts, and sharing this with us all. Stay well, Sir.
Simon, my friend thank you. There are a lot of interesting DACs coming out. I know that there are some less expensive R2R units on the horizon so I think we will be spoiled for choice. As far as Delta-Sigma style these are the best I have heard. Just wait as I have a couple of streamer/DACs in for review and there will be a bit of flack directed at me when that review hits end of next week. It should be fun.
I exchanged my TX 1656 to Burson v7 vivid in the RCA stage of my Geshelli J2...WOW WOW WOW! It sounds like a totally new device and me likey very much. Next month I'm going for the Aperion Planar Super tweeters and will keep you posted. I'm curious why there is little chirping about this class of device. I would think that being able to capture 20 - 40 thousand hertz within 6 DB would sound good. Well, next month we shall find out.
Thank you for explaining the hybrid chipset of the AKM. I had no idea it was partially multi-bit. I’ve had my eye on the Holo Cyan 2 ladder DAC for some time now, having loved the sound from my current Modi Multibit. But it sounds as though the AKM chipset as implemented here in the J3 approximates the character of R2R DACs. Have you, by chance, heard the Cyan 2 and, if so, how would you say it compares to the J3? Thank you.
Thank you for your view and comment. Yes. Stand alone DACs we're a thing even back then. They were large full size beasts. Mine weighed in at 25 lbs. It had 2 large torridal power supplies and wood sides! It was a Marantz CDA-94. I also had the matching CD transport and DAT recorder. The whole kit retailed for $6K. Good thing we were Marantz dealers.
Thank you for the additional review of the J3. I’m currently saving up for a good DAC and I am definitely going for the J3. I have the sparkos 2590 already so I’m ready.
That was great Ed! I got a j2 at axpona last year and an a3 at axpona this year, I’m definitely looking forward to next year’s Geshelli purchase and this j3 will probably be it, unless I can convince the wife that we need a zoofa instead 😂
Brian, As always thank you. I think the Zoofa is on hold. I know some of the components have been discontinued so it may have to be a complete redesign. That said I did love Geno's mono blocks. Wow.
Really appreciate your channel and this review. Since I only have single ended vintage stereo equipment I just ordered the J2S. I was already interested in Geshelli but your review cinched it for me. Ordered with the standard OpAmps with plans to upgrade later to save money now but with the best AKM. Thanks for your review.
Jon, You won't be disappointed. I promise. The unit sounds great even with the stock TI op-amps. When you want the Sparkos go to Andrew's site: sparkoslabs.com. He is always running some sort of promo and you can save some money that way. Thank you so much for your vote of confidence.
Great review. Thanks. Would be interesting if you were able to hold onto the J3 Pro and combine with their Achel Pro as preamp / DAC combo driving the Orchard Audio. Would probably make a nice reference level review system…
George, It would for sure. That said I have the Orchard Audio PecanPi+ Premier streamer DAC in and it also uses the AK4499EXEQ + AK4191EQ combo chip set and can be a pre-amp. Unfortunately I had to return the Amp. I will ask for it back and maybe do a review of the OA combo. Thanks for the suggestion and your comment.
@@OldGuyHifi It’s unfortunate you had to return the OA amp. Would have been interesting to compare the 2 AK DAC implementation (or any source) with the same amplifier/speaker setup - ie introduce a new component for review but the rest of the system is a known quantity.
Just swapped the 2590 into my J2 4493. Using the unblanced outs. From the 3602 to the 2590, it is quite an amazing upgrade. Thanks for the heads up!! Dig the channel!!
The stacked op amp from Sparkos will fit the single ended J2S. It's snug, but it works. Balanced will need risers and a taller case. Sherri at Geshelli can set you up if you want the J3 case, and front/rear faceplate that accommodate the J2 board.
I really like that you have taken the time to explain why this chipset is a separation from other Delta Sigma designs. I know you have returned the review unit Chord Quests, can I ask you how the 4499 chipset sounds against FPGA sound of the Quest? BTW - not in this video, you talk at some what about the value of a good source point (which I totally agrees with). Can you please do a detail separate video on this notion. I hope you get a chance to hear and review Gustard A26 (4499) DAC too.
So far only the Laiv Harmony has dethroned the Qutest. The Dayzee is very good on balanced but the J2S & J3 are so close on single ended that you could make a case for just getting one of those. I am working on trying to get the Gustard. Thanks
Michelle, I agree with you. I thought I was done and in a long term relationship with my Schiit DAC. This new chip technology from AKM is spinning my head around. It sounds very good and the units have a couple of features I don't have like DSD and balanced outs. What DAC did you get? Thanks so much for you comment and for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi My Geshelli Dac totally outclasses my Schiit. I love Schiit gear, but my phono amp has been replaced by a Darlington Labs MM6B and I am now running a Geshelli Dac. Huge upgrades.
I’ve been wanting a new dac simply just to handle more sources I’ve been running a smsl su1 and it gets old swapping optical from tv to cd player cuz it only has 1. This Geshelli looks amazing im guessing this will be my next dac.
Very informative. As I’ve mentioned in the comments of your fiio r2r dac, Sound stage, width and depth are what I’m looking for. My speakers are Maggie’s.
I can recommend the Geshelli J2S or J3 Pro with the AKM4499 setup. They sound near as makes no difference the same. Either of those will give your system all of the needed signal to develop the best sound stage it is capable of. There lots of other great DACs I just happen to really like the sound of the Geshelli units. I also like Denafrips and Chord but they get expensive. Let me know what you decide to do. BTW, I have a Denafrips Pontus review coming out & I just got a Chord Cutest in for review. Thanks for your view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi Hello and thank you for your detailed reply. Yes. The J2s with Sparkos is roughly $100 less than the J3. Good to know your thoughts on the comparison. I was very interested in the j2s, but there were a few on us audiomart right after they were purchased. So then I moved on to the Aune x8 VIII. It can accept Sparkos and it’s a preamp. I recently removed my Schiit Magnius from the chain. Just using my DACs. My amp has attenuators. I’m 70. ExPat living in the 3rd world. I’m losing interest upgrading. Inflation is pretty bad here and that’s that.
@@jayem1826 The Aune is great unit, Sorry to hear about the local economy. I get it. I was very happy with what I had prior to starting the channel. Now I am very fortunate to have companies willing to send me gear for review so the upgrade itch get a good scratching. Also, the channel does a good job of keeping me busy. You know what they say about idle hands! Thanks so much for being a part of my channels growth and part of the community.
Howdy Ed. With a very early preorder, I guess I am among the first to receive the J3. When I got the ship notice I talked with Sherri G. And asked if any review units were out. She said just you. Unawares, I sought you out and very much like (& subscribed to) your channel. As I have several 3602’s I ordered mine w V7’s (Classics on XLR & Vivid on SE). To me it seemed strong mids were kinda pushing back upper air, so I switched to 3602 and found slight improvement. Still craving more cymbal shimmer, steel string ring, and violin air, I have now got the SS2590 dual rig on the way. I saw the 2590 described as “more transparent” on a forum; and your opinion triggered the immediate order. Thx for good concise info. 👍
Thanks for your review! Would love to hear your take on the J3 vs Bifrost please! If you share, please let us know which version of the Bifrost you are using and which modifications you have in place.
Welcome back Mr. Needham. Thank you. I would love to review/listen to the latest version of the Bifrost but, as of yet I don't have a relationship with Schiit. My Bifrost started out as the original AKM version. It is a "Gen 5" but has been upgraded to Multibit and Unison USB. All the capacitors have been replaced with tighter tolerance Elna caps. It lacks the current versions balanced gozinta & gozoutas, so it is single ended only. I hope to work with Schiit in the future as obviously I like their stuff.
Ed, thank you for you informative review on the J2S and the J3 Pro. I have the same older Schiit Bifrost Multibit w/ Unison USB (USB upgraded from USB-3(?) to USB-5 and finally to Unison-USB) you use in your system, feeding a Schiit Freya Preamp (original model) going into a Yamaha Stereo Power Amplifier B-2X into some Juan Marie Raynaud Trenté speakers. SPDIF both co-axial and optical are very good into the Bifrost are excellent, but USB is outstanding and improves the musicality of the system to a whole next level. This was not the case before upgrading the Bifrost to Unison-USB. My question for you is how do compare the USB performance between the 3 DACs? Also, I have been enjoying your channel for several months and I am subscribed.
Thank you for subscribing. Great question. The J2S/J3 Pro both use an Amanero USB chip on a board that Geshelli has designed and builds in house. Like the Unison USB design, the Geshelli design does offer electromagnetic (EMI) and electrostatic (ESD) isolation but, whether or not the Geshelli design offers complete EMI and ESD isolation like the Schiit design, is something I would have to ask them about. In practical terms they are almost indistinguishable sonically. The real difference is in the DAC topology i.e., the Schiit Mulitbit AD5547 chip set vs AK4499 chip set has a far greater impact on the sound of the unit then the USB circuits. They are different sounding but, it is just different. One is not necessarily better that the other. I love my Bi-Frost but I am smitten with the Geshelli and the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191 chip set. I have a review of another DAC that uses the AKM chips that sounds great as well coming out soon. Long winded answer. Sorry. Thanks so much for watching.
I don't believe so. You can always email the Geshellis at info@geshelli.com and ask. It is pretty easy to do yourself. Also, if you do, do it yourself, buy the op-amps from the Sparkos site directly as they will give a first time buyer discount of 15%. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
The J2S' balanced outputs can be fitted with SS2590s. It requires a riser on the front socket and an extender for the rear. It's a tight fit and one needs to be careful, but it definitely elevates the J2S to another level, as it does the J3 Pro. This arguably makes for the best sounding setup under $1000 USD, especially when powered by a decent linear PS. I give second place to the Burson V7V, which I found to give a bit more midrange energy and emphasis on soundtage depth. The V7C is very balanced and smoother, possibly a better match for the ESS platforms for the reasons you mentioned. Lots of fun here.
Theodore, That's great info. I know Geno had some trepidation about putting 2590s on the J2S board. I think that's partially why he did the redesign. But man it makes a difference. As I type this I am listening to a DAC that also the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191 chipset. Holy moly is it good. It may be the best "chip" based DAC I have ever heard. The review will be out soon. I think that chipset is a true gamer changer for delta-sigma designs.
I can't believe I missed this original posting... I find it interesting that the two AKM mfg DAC & streaming products you reviewed are the two I have been considering. I already have a great streamer with a Bryson BDP3 (and not really sure I want to go to the Pi route). So only am I targeting the Geshelli, I actually live close enough to have had a TOUR of their factory about a month ago! I listened to the J2 J3, and Dayzee for quite some time in their listening room and they're very impressive. The Dayzee sounds great just with its standard configuration...but it has a bit more features than I need (and it's an an absolute beast) :) I also was curious between the different op-amps and the two i was most looking at were the Burson Vivid and the Sparkos Pro. Right now I'm dealing with some blown drivers in my fantastic (but vintage) speakers, but I'm definitely leaning towards getting one of their products. And yes the family is as nice as can be... I have to mention that :-)
Scott, They are great people. It is very funny, Fed-Ex just dropped off my J2S right before I started to respond to you. Obviously I chose the J2S because I can roll the op-amps. The difference between the J2S and J3 are very minimal. Sonically, they are as near as makes no difference the same. That's why I bought the J2S. BTW, Geno is sending me a Dayzee to review. Should be fun. Good luck with your speakers and keep me posted on which Geshelli unit you get. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifiI'm definitely going to hold off until you get that Dayzee to see what you think based on my listening session with it using the regular configuration...because it's probably going to be come with other op-amps. That's a whole different beast in that there's absolutely no filters or settings of any kind...the way I like it. Hint: if you're familiar with the AKM filters & prefer a particular one such as brickwall, let them know & they'll set it at the factory. I still have a 100% analog system anchored with an amazing Audio Research MP1 multi-channel preamp & Conrad Johnson amplifier (no tone controls whatsoever)...with 99% of my material being DSD. So I know all about pure unadulterated signals :). Currently I use a modified (image files) Oppo 205 which is no slouch but as you know is Sabre based and seeing as it is going on 7 years old I know I can do better for 2Ch anyway. Obviously, multi-channel is going to have to stay with that for a while because no one makes multi-channel analog DACs anymore if your name is not Exasound. Speaking of the Schiit you have,I just got a Syn to analog-expand that 2ch audio myself...
@@Scott-DJ I am like you in that I prefer a pure sound. That said I do have a Schiit Lokius EQ. Because of the varity of gear coming in and out of here sometimes a bit of EQ can make a difference. I don't know how the Dayzee will be configured. I can always ask Andrew Sparks to send op-amps for demo. We will see. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifiSounds good. Keep in mind you'll need all eight op-amps to use on the Dayzee because it doesn't use a typical channel structure. That could get pricey with some of those options..
Thanks for the review! I especially appreciate your explanation of the hybrid chip set. I’m still curious whether the power supply upgrade in the JNOG3 makes a difference in the sound? Which DAC sounds better w/ the same chip set & OpAmps?
John, There were times where I thought I could hear a tiny difference and then times I was not sure at all. I think upgrading a J2S with a external linear power supply would yield a bigger difference. Because I could not get the big Sparkos in the balanced side of the J2S i can't say for sure. The both sounded as near as makes no difference, at least to me, the same with any combo of op-amps on the single ended side. Now the J3 with the 2590s on the balanced side was quite a remarkable difference. More authority and drive. Better detail without any harshness at all. It felt like the tap was fully opened. One of the best I have ever heard. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Also wondering about the usefulness of adding something like a SMSL PO100 between streamer and the J3 using optical, or whether it's better to connect streamer directly to USB on the J3
USB out to the SMSL PO100 out to the J3 on either coax or Toslink is the perfect connection. I use that set up for my J2S, Dayzee and the Laiv Harmony I have. IMHO it improves thing markedly. I hear better low level detail and a more expansive sound stage & image. It is well worth the $60. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
Hi Ed. Thanks for a great review. I just ordered a J2S with AK4499 based on your review. Are there not three different gain settings in the J2/J3, low, medium and high? Did you check out this when you compared them?
I did. The output level has no effect on the sound of the units. I run them in high setting always. They do output a smidge more than 2 volts but I find it to be a better match up to other gear I have in for review. Thanks for asking.
Have you checked out the inexpensive Fosi ZD3? I got one and it’s OK-I really like the HDMI/eARC support for my TV, but I got the sense the AKM hybrid approach might be more to my taste… I like really present vocals/midrange and a warmer darker sound than you hear with the SABR designs generally… Everyone thinks sparkos op amps are fabulous-but usually the smaller ones. I’ve never seen anyone use these big ones you seem to love… I think they’re very pricey right? And you need *8* for the Dayzee bringing that unit north of 2K, whereas only two for XLR J3 pro (so more like $800)
I have the Fosi ZD-3 in right now for review and I must say that I am pleasantly surprised by its performance. I normally don't like the sound of ESS Sabre DACs but this may be the exception. I have rolled the op-amps. I did not use the extra 3 that were included in the box yet. I had some SX52B Full Discrete Dual Op Amps I got on Ali-Express and used those. Wow! Really good sound with a big reduction in the "glare" I normally hear with Sabre DACs. I will try the Sparkos later. BTW those SX52B op-amps were only about $12.40 each. Yes the Dayzee needs all 8. With a Lexan case and all the op-amps the Dayzee comes in at just under $1700.00. I have all 8 in my Dayzee review sample now and, OH MAN is it good. My regular unit is a J2S with the 2590 on single ended and the 3602s on balanced and it sounds awesome as well. I always recommend that you listen to you DAC for at least a few months before you roll op-amps. If you don't get a good idea of its stock sound you will never know if the upgrade made a difference. Let me know your thoughts. Great comment and thank you for tuning in.
@ thanks for your response. I have not rolled on the ZD3 but I can tell you the muses02 made a big difference smoothing out the sound and widening the stage of the V3 mono amps. I woulda gone for the J3 Pro or even the Dayzee if I thought they would be a significant step up *and if* they had HDMI input. Then again the ZD3 is *so cheap* I can just keep it for the TV and use something else for music. The 3 provided rolling op amps included by Fosi are not well regarded so I wouldn’t even bother with those. Just check the sparkos, the muses02, and maybe some other discrete choices that will fit-I think the big sparkos won’t fit… those SX52B-did you compare them to the stock op amps and they are “glare-reduced” relative to the stock? If so I will defo try them. But maybe a pair o sparkos on the ZD3 will work magic. Grzegorz of Virtual HiFi really liked the ZD3 even though he doesn’t usually like sigma-delta of any sort, and is saying he has built his own op amps -I m seriously considering his Qualio IQ speakers but I gotta trigger them before the tariffs kick in… I have acoustic Zen adagios right now. he also liked the LAiV in the R2R category for the money (2-3K: he liked it better than the Denafrips offerings) though his fave is the T+A dac which is in the 5-8K range.
Hey Ed... I have a technical question. I have a J3 Pro and Erish 3 stack loaded with the 2590 Sparkos Op Amps in Both. I have the J3 Pro going to a Schiit Lokius tone control and then to the Erish 3(XLR) and OG LYR3(RCA). To my surprise the RCA connection is LOUDER than the XLR connection with the 2590's installed in all 3. When I change the Lokius from XLR to RCA the volume is obviously louder coming out of the Erish 3 and LY3 and I'm wondering if this is normal or is it an odd occurrence? I've always been under the impression that XLR connections are louder than RCA. Thanks. You have a New Subscriber 🍻
The Lokius will take single ended inputs and convert the signal up to a balanced voltage even when you listen to the Lokius balanced out even if it is in the single ended setting. I noticed that also. I am pretty sure it is not changing the signal format from single ended to balanced just upping the voltage. In my experience, unless you are running very long cable runs, single ended and balance, near as makes no difference sound the same, just a bit louder. Great question Thanks for coming over from the short video.
@@OldGuyHifi I'm liking the power I'm getting with the J3 Pro, Erish3 and LYR3 with the Lokius in between. Both amps drive the ZMF Atrium with ease and there is some nice Bass and Dynamic punch and slam
I just ordered the J3 and the Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 op-amps ~ assembled onto the adapter (recommended by Geshelli) for the unbalanced outputs (I don't have any use for XLR at this particular time, but I can always upgrade when I do)! I can't wait! Part of the reason I placed these orders was because of this review (along with Cheap Audio Man's). Plus, I just subscribed... your channel should do very well.
Had the J2S with the older AKM chipset and 2590s for some time and love it. It is now moving to my desktop setup as I have had the J3 with 2590s for a couple weeks, and am enjoying it with my Black Ice Audio preamp and Orchard Audio monoblocks. Would love to hear your thoughts of this compared to the Laiv Harmony DAC. Obviously a different price category, but very curious to get feedback from someone that has compared both side by side. Might be worth seeing if they will send you a review unit.
I've read the comments and so I know you have addressed this subject directly. My quandary is...can I infer that the poorest quality clock timing of a digital signal like the Wiim Ultra...means that a digital to digital bridge has MORE opportunity for increased dynamic response. In other words, does the fact that the Wiim Ultra has poor clocking and potentially jitter mean that I have MORE to look forward to when I implement my SMSL PO100pro? Just asking?
The PO 100 made a difference with every DAC I tested it with. Yes, on entry level DACs it was more pronounced. That I said I was testing in my reference system and my reference headphone system. Those are both pretty revealing. Hey for 70 bucks it is worth the chance. You can always return it. Let me know what you decide.
Indeed it does. I have been listening to it for a few days now and it is very good. I have the Starkrimson amp coming back next week so I will do a full system review. I am also thinking about doing a deep dive on the AKM tech featured in these chips. I do think it may be the first time a quasi Delta-Sigma convertor will be a rival to R2R or true multibit DACs. I was/am that impressed. Thanks for commenting and returning to the channel.
Ed… was it a struggle to hear the differences between the op-amps? The reason I ask relates to your discussion of ESS voltage DACs verses the AKM current DACs. It is my understanding that the op-amps are used to convert voltage to current. Therefore, an ESS DAC leans more heavily on the op-amps and thus op-amps will have a greater influence on the sound. I’m thinking that since the AKM DAC is already current based, the effect of the op-amps might be more subtle and difficult to pick out.
Steve, you always have great questions and subsequent responses. I appreciate that. There are very few ESS DACs that allow Op-amp swapping. That said I do have an $80 DAC in for review that has socketed op-amps. Should be interesting. The most obvious place where the swap is apparent is on the balanced outputs. Yes op-amps do work that way but the amount of current any IC chip can handle is rather small so the op-amps bring that up to a line level of 2 volts on single ended and 4ish volts on balanced with sufficient current to drive the input of a pre-amp, especially passive ones. The differences are subtle and for the most part they don't leap out at you. The differences manifest themselves in 1) a reduced noise floor and 2) it better fine detail like transient decay. So, yes it takes some time to suss it out. I make lots of notes over many hours. There are times when I can't discern any difference. The other thing is that just because there is a difference it doesn't necessarily mean it is a negative i. e., the Burson Vivid sounded very warm and nice, much to my liking but the Sparkos 3602 had more detail. No real winner. Great question and comment. I hope I was able to answer it satisfactorily. Thanks so much for your view.
Great, great review! Thank you for detailed experiences with the new J3, as well as taking the time to explain the unique new chipset from AKM, and pairing with the Sparkos. How do you feel about the J3 in relation to your modified bifrost? I used to feel the same way about ess Sabre until I got an Okto Research Dac 8 stereo, which is a very different approach using all the possible channels while keeping distortion super low. Very organic, no sheen or etching etc. But now am really curious about the J3 or even the new Dayzee case on what you just explained 🙏🏼
John, Thank you for the kind words. I struggle with the Bifrost vs the J2/J3 in all honesty. I love my Bifrost. It has a delicacy and tone that is just so sweet and full. Kind of like a Hemke reed vs D'Addario from Sweetwater. Just sounds right. Now the J2/J3 are right there. The more I listen the more I think I need to added a Geshelli to the system. I really think the AKM Hybrid chip set is key as well. It gave Geno a ton of flexibility to design these units. I have several friends with Dayzees and I trust their ears, who claim it is the best sub $5K DAC they have ever heard. I would love to hear one some day. Thanks so much for watching an d commenting. BTW, I am not a musician.
@@OldGuyHifi Oh man, that’s a brilliant way to describe it! I can think of very few other ways to analogy personal tonal preference than the way a reed plays on a familiar mouthpiece. That alone peaks my interest in what Geshelli is doing. Btw, Hemke’s are great. You are definitely a saxophonist if you know that difference. I’ve settled on La Voz (D’Addario), even though there are many more premium refined types and brands, so case in point (lol!) 🙏🏼👍🏼
That's a tough one. If you only need single ended out then a J2 with the big 2590 would be excellent. If you do balanced/XLR then the J3 is the best choice. In all honesty, either unit is very good straight out of the box. You can always upgrade the op-amps and do a linear power supply. Thank you for your view and comment/question. I do appreciate it.
Stellar review! Could you please share which you felt performed better as a DAC, between the J3 Pro and the Orchard Audio Peacan Pi+ DAC/Streamer you also reviewed?
The OA Pecan Pi is a great DAC but a lousy streamer. Not the hardware, Volumio is the weak link. Tha DAC in the OA is the same AK4499EXEQ chip set as in the Geshelli. I found it to be a bit too clinical. I think Leo the designer focused on getting the best measurements. Geno Geshelli listens as well as measures so I felt more connected to the music with the J3Pro. I did wind up buying a J2S AK4499 for my system. The J2S and the J3Pro are near as makes no difference sonically identical. Orchard Audio does make a DAC only version without the streamer for less cost. Again, I found the Geshelli to be more engaging. I hope that helps. Thanks for the view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi Greatly appreciate your very honest and helpful response. Sounds like the Geshelli is more up my alley, given the engagement and musicality factor. Plus I’m more than happy to pass on having to deal with the very frustrating Volumio app which I had brief and frustrating experience with.
Like your presentation style. Me 63, love vinyl, have some cds and fairly new to streaming. Dynamics, big soundstage /holograghic important to me. Hate shril/ clinical sound. Using Qobuz, BS Node 2i, J2 non upgradable. Wouldnt mind supporting Geshellis again. Ed what can I expect if I upgrade from J2 basic to J3 Sparkos? You infered warm yet detail with J3. 2 winners! Pontus, Border Patrol, Gustard R26 have been in the running.
Which chip does your J2 have? If it is the AKM 4493 then that's a real good DAC even without swappable op-amps. The difference between the J2S and the J3 Pro sonically is very little. Geno re-did the board to accommodate the Sparkos 2590 chips which are giant. Also those chips require a bit more power to run so he upgraded the power supply. When I made my choice, I went for the J2S AKM4499 option with a single Sparkos 3602 for the RCA outputs. I feel I made a great choice. I have listen tot he J2S side by side with a Pontus II 12th, a Chord Cutest, a FiiO K9AKM, an SMSL SU -X, an Audiolab M DAC+, my modified Schiit Bifrost and the new Geshelli Dayzee. Conclusion: The J2S is every bit as good as all of those but is edged out by the Cutest, the Bifrost (Slightly) and of course the Dayzee which is a J2S/J3 Pro on steroids. I could happily live forever with the J2S with no regrets. Yes, the sound is smooth (warmish) and very detailed. Bang for the buck, I don't think you can beat a Geshelli unit of any stripe. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi Thanks for detailed reply. Sounds like I should stick with the J2. Seems crazy a $250 dac could be in same game as $1600 one. I know it has many good reviews. Im pretty sure it has the AKM4499. I also have a new Keces LPS that Ill be using with the J2 soon. My rig has been in storage 1 1/2 years. I only play HiRez, but found streaming to be very hit or miss for quality. Thought maybe a dac upgrade might help. Wish my area still had HiFi stores to hear different products, but now we rely on reviewers. Thanks!
@@bryfar6178 My guess is that you have an AKM4493 as the 4499 was only offered in the J2S at a significant cost. I have heard from others and experienced it myself, that the BS Node is an inexpensively built unit and lacks an internal clock so the signal can be full of noise. Did your J2 come with an USB input? If so try connecting a PC/MAC via USB and just run the regular Qobuz desktop app and see if there is a difference. If it sounds better then... Good luck and Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi Your probably right AKM4493. Hmm, Ive read alot of good comments on the BS Node2i. I didnt pay it but, it sold for $600.00 4 years ago, but no doubt there are better streamers. Im surprised a pc could be a better streaming source, but I dont have that option.
There are devices like this: SMSL PO100 PRO: amzn.to/3B8KzRe which can convert USB audio to SPDIF Coax or Toslink as well as I2S. It takes the USB out of your PC/MAC and gets it into the DAC very cleanly and accurately. I use on on DACs that have no USB and it works very well. That could be an inexpensive option for you. Let me know what you think. Thx.
Regarding the Amanero USB on the J3. Can that be used as an input from, say, the Eversolo DMP-A6's USB out to use the DAC from the J3? Assuming the USB input would give the best performance over the optical and coax.
First time commenting on your videos. Sorry for the length. I value your work and have learned a lot. I respect your opinion...that said. I am stuck between selecting the Geshilli J2s or the Pecan Pi + (without the streamer). I am very happy with my system other than the DAC. I have a hard time reasoning that all DACs can service all music well. I primarily listen to instrumental music...mainly jazz (all areas other than free jazz) and classical music (with the exception of period instruments compositions). Soul (pre 80s) and progressive rock also pepper my listening. I am a low brass specialist. I perform mainly on slide trombone and euphonium. I also have perfect pitch. I have to live with selection for at least five years. So please help. I want an American made unit that serves the music. Which of those two would you purchase considering the details shared? Thank you for your time!
When it came time for me to choose I bought the J2S. I think it sounds better that the Pecan Pi. Don't get me wrong the Pecan Pi is very good. The J2S is a bit smoother and because you can change the op-amps you can change the sound. It is very good with the stock TI OPA1656 op-amps but I also have the Sparkos 3602 (on the RCA outs) which adds a bit more drive and impact in the bass and mid-bass region. Not too much just better speed. Plus for me the ability to a USB input was key for use. With the Pecan Pi you have to use a SPDIF to USB convertor which, I don't trust to sound the best. I have one and I think it has a negative impact on the soundstage and transients. BTW, I have a Geshelli Dayzee showing up today which should be interesting. If it is as good as reported, it could be potentially expensive for me. Lol. Let me know what you decide.
Jan, The differences between the J2S & J3 Pro are minor, The J3 Pro has an improved power supply primarily for driving 3 of the 2590s. Sonically they are almost indistinguishable. I ran the J2S with the 2590 in single ended (RCA) and it was very, very good. Good enough that I am purchasing one for myself as a second reference DAC. I hope this helps. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
This review was on point. I was lucky enough to get my j3 Pro w Sparkos 2590 last week. Waiting on my Wiim Ultra but using a chromecast audio for now. This replaced my modi3. I tried a Wiim Pro Plus (internal dac): Sound was 2/10, Wiim Pro Plus with the modi 3: Sound was 6/10. returned pro plus since I am hoping the Wiim ultra has a better digital out stage. Chromecast Audio with Modi3 sound 5/10. Chromecast Audio with Geshelli j3pro: Sound 8/10.
That's terrific. I hope you find it perfect. My best combo was with the Cambridge MXN10. But it should be for the money. Thanks for watching & sharing.
@@OldGuyHifi appreciate that information! I've been eyeing the MXN10, based on your comment, I decided to purchase that also. I'll compare both and go from there.
@@OldGuyHifi so my MXN10 came in overnight so I got a chance to try it and was surprised that I wasn't crazy about the sound. Apparently I've gotten use to listening to my music heavily equalized. While the sound was good, the inability of the MXN10 to equalize kind of killed it for me. Hate to admit it but the Wiim pro plus sounded better to my ears because it allowed for EQ.
@@azwazeer5051 No worries. You have to enjoy what you hear and how you do that is a completely individual pursuit. As long as you like the sound it doesn't matter what gear you use. Thanks for letting me know. Enjoy!
What or how did you modify the Schitt Bifrost? OG or 2/64? BTW, ESS chips can run in voltage or current mode from what I've read. LIKED and SUBSCRIBED. Thank you for a great review. Keep up the great work.
My Bifrost started life as an OG AKM chip unit. I had a service issue with it and as it was early on in the multi-bit era for them they modified it and asked me to test it. It has a non-standard linear power supply, Unison USB and an Analog Devices prototype 24 bit chip. It also has Elna Aluminum foil caps through out. Only the very latest ESS chip are current based.
I'll watch this again later. Basically another rave review for Gesheli and from what in understanding so far if you are running strictly vintage therefore via RCA then you may as well get the J2 because you only need 1 sparcos OP amp.
I like the Bifrost better than the J2S even though I have the ss3602 and AKM4490 upgrades with the default smps. When i used a linear power supply, then i thought the Geshelli matched the Bifrost. One other note. Did you use the Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 in the J2S single ended? I think in the video, you said yes, but just making sure.
Using the same op amps, what is the sound quality difference between the J2S and J3? Is the J3 worth the upgrade? I don't care about the functionality since I'm used to the J2S.
@@thepracticalaudiophile They are near as makes no difference the same. I honestly heard no difference between the two. That's why I still have my J2S. Thx.
@@thepracticalaudiophile Interesting decision? I have the J2S but did not specify the 4499 chip. Why should I have $170 increase in price. Then I realize that a J3 is way more costly BUT allows the 4499 chip standard and upgrades up to Sparkos 2590, Burson v7's and NOW STACCATO...I'm calling Rachel at Geshelli for a Black Stealth Aluminum case for my next DAC. I'll use the J2S with an Archel headphones amp for my Focal headphones.
Thank you for the insight into these DAC’s. You are very knowledgeable. This is my first experience of these 2 models and this company. I have a chord Qutest and was wondering how they would stack up against its sound. I do like the Chord and have it hooked up by bnc to Allo Digi 1 signature. Into a Cambridge audio cx81 and kef ls50 meta. Are these an upgrade in sound quality, or just a sideways step to a different sound. Thank you and appreciate your efforts.
My honest guess is it would be a sideways move. In all honesty it has been a while since I listened to Chord products. I may be getting Qutest to review but not sure when. I am a big fan of Cambridge so you have a great amp. I have not heard the Allo Digi 1 but they enjoy a good reputation. I hope I have helped to answer you query. thanks for watching and asking a great question.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for taking the time out to answer. I would send you my Qutest , but l am in Scotland. However please do try and get hold of one. And give me you valuable insight. I like my Dac Ed but you know what it is like. We are always looking for improvement, no matter how incremental. And if they come at a cheaper price ( I spend more on hifi than l can afford 😂) Even better. Much appreciated.
@@johnlynchpersonaltraining9918 It is a sickness we all share. I love Scotland. I played a few amateur golf events there in my youth, Troon, Muirfield and the Royal & Ancient. My wife and I would love to rent a car and do the 500. Beautiful country. You are lucky. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi Well, If you ever choose to do it. Please let me know . I live in Gourock , relatively near Troon. So a competitive golfer too? Your talent is boundless. 😊 Thank you for everything.
Hi Ed. New to the HiFi world and just found your channel. Thanks for the great review/breakdown of the J3. Quick question. I have not pulled the trigger on a DAC as of yet. I will likely go with the J3 now as compared to J2S with AK4499 its seemingly only $100 more. I may not update the Opamps right off the bat; however I wondering between the Sparkos vs Burson V7 Vivid. I my starter pair of speakers are the Heco Aurora 300s which I understand to sound a bit on the warm side due to material used on woofer and tweeter. I prefer a bit more revealing/detailed sounding music....with that would your recommend the SParkos or Burson vivid? Sorry so long winded... Good luck with your channel!
Chris, Welcome to this crazy hobby. The more the merrier! Honestly, I would stick with the stock TI OPA1656 op-amps to begin with. They have great detail and will add a bit of midrange to a warm system. You may find you don't need to change them. I ran the J3 with the stock op-amps on the balanced side, for several days of listening and found that to be very good. Seriously good. The magic in the J2S/J3 Pro is that AK4499EXEQ-AK4191EQ chip set and how Geno designed it. Swapping op-amps is more of a tweak and has a subtle sonic effect. As a new person to the hobby, you should listen to your standard gear configuration for months and months, maybe even for years so that you get used to the sound. You want it to be kind "second nature" so that when you do make a small change i.e., op-amp swapping, you can hear that change. Also only make one change at a time, slowly. Again so you will be able to tease out the differences. Often times, I find that, while there are differences, it still all sounds great. As some famous old guy in history said "Know thy self" I would consul that you should "Know thy system first" before making any changes. I hope that helps you. Sorry for being long winded. Thank you so much for you question and view. I hope you subscribed!
@@OldGuyHifi Thanks for all the great info/guidance Ed! Much appreciated! I will follow your advice and order the J3 in its base configuration. Have a good one!
Excellent review! Need to watch more of your videos right away. This j3 fully loaded and with a wooden case would be around 1.1k $ here in Germany. A Denafrips Ares (now 15th) would be around 1.3k $. May you share your thoughts on which one you would choose and why? Or should I look into other devices in that price range searching for a non dry and metallic/ringy sounding dac? Edit: Bifrost is around 1.1 k $.
They are very different DACs. It has been a long time since I listened to a Dennefrips unit and it was the OG Aries unit. Ladder DACs have a great sound but aren't perfect, but then what is? My fuzzy recollection was that it was very smooth and threw a big sound stage. I thought it was very good. I will be getting a Pontus in for review shortly so I will get a refresher. Just to be honest with you, I am considering purchasing a J2S with the Sparkos 3602s as an extra reference DAC in the system. I think that this new AKM AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ hybrid chipset is remarkable. I find its sound to be between Multibit R2R and Delta-Sigma. It is very clean but without the Delta-Sigma glare and has a more neutral sound than Multibit and Ladder DACs. Great response and resolution with a huge sound stage. The J2S and the J3 Pro are basically the same units with a few mods to accommodate the space big Sparkos 2509 need. I found them to be so close that as near as makes no difference the same. I know that probably doesn't help but it is the best I can do to be accurate. Thank you so much for the great question and your view.
@@OldGuyHifi No man that's perfect. I'd rather you not stating things just to give _some_ answer and steer me in one direction. Thank you for your time, that helps me to narrow down my choice.
@@Nearest_Neighbor I have seen that piece. Never heard of the brand which would cause me to hesitate. If I remember correctly you are in the EU (Germany?) and that might get expensive with shipping, import duties and taxes. There are some good deals to be had out of Asia but, beware as there is zero product support or service from these manufacturers. The seller may support it but you send it back at your own cost and risk. I have had several viewers/friends buy this way and get burned. Just a "word to the wise." Thank you for your return visit to the channel.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for your heads up! I've heard a lot of good things about Singxers DACs and headphone amps. About this particular one I only found one review so far. You're right, I'm in Germany. So unfortunately most things will cost me quite a bit of shipping and duties. Other than SMSL for instance since they're so wide spread. But there are distributiors in europe which already handled the importing etc. so it would be only the bumped up prices but not the hassle with all that. And one might hope that they provide some service after purchasing the item. But as you can clearly see my search hasn't ended quite yet. :)
I always enjoy your videos Ed and I trust your opinion. I'm a little short on funds right now because I'm buying a new house at the ripe old age of 67 (STUPID I know) and I'm probably going to get a base J2. There are 3 DAC chip choices and I don't know which to chose. I have good hearing for my age. I like detail and I don't mind a little extra "sizzle" on the top end. Do you have an opinion on which chip might be right for me? Thanks for your consideration!
Mike, I am so sorry for the delay in responding. For some reason TH-cam redirected this to a different folder I only just found out about. I promise I was not ignoring you. I would choose the standard J2 with the AKM 4493 chip. It is the little brother to the 4499-4191 chipset. It is part of the same AKM Velvet Sound technology in a less expensive package. It sounds very, very good. Again I am sorry for the delayed response.
@@OldGuyHifi I knew that you would never ignore any post. Things happen and your channel is growing rapidly. Great minds right? I was hoping that was the chip you would suggest. Thank you!
Hi Ed, thank you so much for your review… I’m planning to upgrade my Preamp setup (I have KEF Reference 203 + Qinchao 9115D sub & Opera Consonance A18P amp), as I still use my old Marantz AV preamp and stream via Airplay 😂. I know: worst source possible… I’m considering the following setup: Arylic S50 Pro+ to stream Tidal (digital output to J3) Geshelli J3 Pro with SS2590 for XLR Outputs Musical Paradise MP-701 tube preamp with upgraded tubes (XLR input from J3, XLR Out to amp, RCA out to sub) Feature wise, an Eversolo A8 is comparable and also similar price… Alternatively I could get a used Musical Fidelity M6s DAC for 450$ as a DAC preamp… Any feedback appreciated 🙏🙏🙏
Alexander, Great question. I have not heard the DMP-A6. It uses the same AKM4499 chipset. I found the Eversolo software to be confusing and not particularly intuitive. You can't role the op-amps in the Eversolo that said it is a beautifully built and engineered. I have not had the opportunity to interact with the Arylic S50 Pro+ so I can render no opinion. I have heard some less than flattering comments about it. For about the same money the WiiM Pro is what I would recommend. I had one of those and fore the money it is very good. I don't know the Musical Paradise but I do know the MS M6s and that is a very good bit of kit and at $450, wow!. Super well built and lovely sounding. I like the sound of the Burr-Brown DACs it uses so that could be the best choice. Good news is if you wanted to you could always add an outboard DAC in the future. I would still recommend the WiiM streamer. It sounds good, has a very good app and, if you wished to, it also has a room correction scheme. Let me know what you decide. Thanks for watching.
I looked at Geshelli Labs carefully due to superior DAC sound quality. Just specs out a J3 fully loaded and price cranks up to $876 before tax and shipping. I might suggest HifiMan Serenade R2R DAC/amp combo could compete with it while also offering a great amp at $899. Hard to choose J3 when Serenade offers tons more value along with R2R sound?
I am sure the Hifiman unit is very good. I have no experience with their products so I can't comment. Thanks so much for sharing that info. Thanks for viewing & commenting.
Yeah but what's the FUN in that? If you are not going balanced, you just saved $200. Plus...Do you truly believe hifiman r2r sounds better than Geshelli? I think not.
Just got your channel and subscribed. I'm buying the J2 socketed this Wednesday. I wanted to confirm that the 2590 fits in the single end of a metal case? Please inform.
Yeghig, It depends on your use case. If you are only going to do single ended and maybe just one external device, i.e., a streamer then the J2S is perfect. You only have one op-amp to change out. If you you were going to do balanced out and were considering going all out, then the J3 Pro with the big Sparkos 2590s rock! At their core the two units are virtually identical in performance so, go with what your budget can handle. Thanks so much for watching and I hope I was able to answer your question.
Great question. If you are only going to run it with RCA (single ended) then you only need to replace one op-amp. I was running balanced (XLR) so I had to replace those two. How are you thinking of using it? Thx for the question and the view.
I heard their DACs and Headphone Amps at shows and it sounded great , I just can't get past the look . Wish they had some modern , thick brushed aluminum look and full size width components for DACs above 400 dollars .
I get it. The look is not for everyone. They are a small family business doing the best they can designwise. The stuff sounds amazing though and that too me is the most important thing. Thank you for the view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi I understand that part , it almost look like DIY build product and when asking prices go higher and higher now it just does not fit as it did on 249usd DAC
@@OldGuyHifi And than they have to compete with ChFi brands that also look much much better these days and cost less , sound pretty decent or even very good so Geshelli will have to invest in a nice chassis ....
Great review Ed! I have j2 with 3602 sparkos. Is the upgrade from 3602 to 2590 really audibly worth it in your opinion? Also, you mentioned it but do you have a link where theres more info on getting those 2590s into the xlr portion of the j2? Thx again!
I felt there was a enough of an improvement to warrant an upgrade. I don't have any info other than anecdotal conversation. You could reach out to Andrew Sparkos and see what he thinks. He makes all of those gizmos to begin with. Sparko@SparkosLabs.com
The 2590 is everything Andrew from Sparkos wanted their discrete opamp to have, but they couldn’t fit it all on the smaller ss3602 opamp (right from Sparkos website). I have both and the Pro opamp is 4 times the size of the ss3602. In my experience the change felt like I was transported into a studio setting with a simple opamp swap (ss3602 to 2590). I hear everything, and nothing’s missing. I have 3 unused ss3602’s now 😅. I didn’t do this with Geshelli, haven’t gotten a chance yet. Have to get over their prototype look first 🤷♂️. I did this on my aune Magic DAC XVIII w/ their LPS upgrade, sounds great! If you could fit it, you’ll hear it! 😉
Great review. How is the the J3 Pro better than J2S. Specially when just using single coax input with no need for input switching buttons. Also which op-amp has the most expansive and deep sound. I know all subjective. Thanks. Great review.
Markus, For all intents & purposes they are identical sonically. The J3 has a bit of a bigger power supply as the large Sparkos require more power and the board was reconfigured to accommodate those large 2590 op-amps. I had the J2S and the J3 side by side and I bought the J2S. The op=amps are very subjective. My advice is to listen to the unit with the stock TI op-amps for a few months and then if you feel the need try rolling them I would start with the Sparkos 3602 and go from there. BTW, If you buy the op-amps from Sparkos directly they offer a 15% discount. I hope that helps L et me know what you decide to do. Great question. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi Ok thank you very much. What made the decision to keep J2 over J3? I am interested in trying the Sparkos 2590s (is it) which only fit the J3, or some mod that I read about, which I am not keen on ;) Thank you again!
Markus, Don't tell anyone bit the 2590 fits in the J2S on the single ended side. I actually showed that in the video. I have both and I don't hear that significant a difference between the 3602 and the 2590. I have the 3602s in my unit and am very happy with the sound. I am actually sending the 2590s back (review samples) and have really no interest in using them. Try the stock TI op-amps for awhile and see what you think. Keep me posted. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi awesome thanks for the answers. Like you I prefer R2R over chip based but something magical (supposedly going by reviews) seems to happen with these units. Thank you.
Honestly, I would spec it out as a standard unit with the stock TI op-amps and see what you think. Andrew at Sparkos always has a deal running son if you want to upgrade it is a bit less costly from him then it is from Geshelli. Secret Tip. Skip the USB unless you really need it. That will save $50.00. Also I can't help you with case options because that is a matter of personal taste. For me, because my gear sits in rack behind a glass door, I would just do the standard Aluminum case. Although, after watching Rachel's latest video on the custom carved cases, (th-cam.com/video/7mWW4k8N7Ik/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zmEj50KD0S6PRWkJ) it makes that a compelling option if I was able to show the DAC off. I hope this helps. Let me know what you decide. thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you. At this point I'm looking for something to use with my MXN10 and my Cambridge CD player so I can skip the USB... and the custom cases do look pretty slick!
I used the J2S (with the 3602 on single ended) extensively with the MXN10 as a source for almost all my recent vintage reviews and the review of the Schiit Freya and Orchard Audio amp. That combo is magic. Highly recommended.
I used both. I am not sure there is a big difference between the two. I use Audioquest Pearl optical and Mogami coax and I find it difficult to hear any meaningful differences. Sometimes I think I do and others... Thanks for asking.
No. The standard J2 is not. Good news is that you can get it with the very good AKM4493 chip. The 4493 is one of the best chips or there period. It sounds amazing. It is part of the same Velvet Sound Veritas family as the 4499. The J2 with that chip @$250.00 is in my opinion an absolute best buy. I can't think of a "Fun-Fi" DAC that comes close. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for the quick and thorough response! I actually have an AKM4493 J2, I just did not know if it is dual chip. I really love the J2 dac and prefer the form factor and aesthetic over the J3. I need another dac for a second system, just ordered the Fiio R2R. Figured if I don't like it I'll be able to easily sell it for little to no loss. Then the question is buy another Geshselli or a try a Denafrips Enyo 15th in silver. Love your channel, a real breath of fresh air in the youtube audio review space. Keep up the fantastic work!
@@OldGuyHifi Listening to the K11 R2R now. A/B comparison with my Schiit Gungnir MB is a challenge - have to switch out dacs then line level - but it sounds at least as good. My subjective feeling is the Fiio sounds better. I was not expecting this, just wanted a dac with a much smaller footprint and did not audibly click (the Schiit makes a very loud click whenever the the datastream is interrupted - it''s quite annoying). Time to sell the Gungnir.
Very nice review, thank you. I ❤ learning more about how this tech works from your channel vs just hearing what it sounds like by others. 👏 Usually it’s important to know if there’s a difference between diff. inputs used SPDIF vs USB and if a stock or what kind of power supply was used in the unit. If you could please verify I understand this correctly - when using SPDIF inputs, the internal clock oscillators of the DAC aren’t used compared to using USB/IIS where the DAC’s internal clock oscillators are used. Should the sound be better via USB? That’s what I’ve come to hear in my system - USB sounds better as an input on my ESS DAC also with a Dual Ch Pro opamp from Sparkos from the same source that has multiple outputs SPDIF & USB, like a PC or a streamer. Thank you!
Ivan you are correct. On any SPDIF input the DACs clock must chase the source's (transmitter) clock. USB is asynchronous so the receiver sets the clock timing not the transmitter. I did a video on this but, I think you saw it. So, yes USB is always the best most common connection for us to use. Great question/comment. Thank you so much.
Hi Ed! I was wondering if you could give me some kind of quantitative idea of how much better (in your subjective opinion) the new towering Sparkos is vs the older Sparkos vs the Burson V?
Micheal, I hope you well my friend. In all honesty, with the J2S on single ended it was an improvement but just. The 3602 vs the Vivid was near as makes no difference a tie. Each had a slightly different sonic signature. The Sparkos a bit more detailed and the Burson a bit warmer. I liked them both. The big 2590 on single ended was very good, however I struggled to hear a big difference. If I was doing only single ended I would probably go for the Vivid and save the money. Now. On balanced XLR in the J3 compared to the stock TIs (I didn't have enough of the Vivid or the 3602 to run them balanced) it was a significant improvement for sure. As I said in the review the music sounded more confident, with better drive and sense of "passing power." Does that make sense? I felt like it would deliver any peak that the music threw at it without any compression. I felt like it laughed those off as if to say "is that all you've got?" I hope that I don't sound like some goof but, that's the feelings I had about it. Very very good. Thanks for asking. Take care.
@@OldGuyHifi I recently moved from Nashville to New Hampshire, and will be moving again in New Hampshire in a few months, so sadly it is currently in a box (with a lot of my other gear). But when I land in my long term home, I plan to break out all the audio goodies.
I have the J2 and like it a lot. My only issue is the output (even in hi mode) seems too low. Did you have this issue? It is not able to drive some of my amps to clipping.
@@OldGuyHifi I am using a WiiM Ultra going to the DAC via toslink cable and then from the DAC to the amp via unbalanced RCA cables to the amp. The WiiM is acting as both the streamer and the pre-amp. One of my amps can use balanced XLR cables, so I will try them and see if it makes a difference. If I do not use the deck, and just go straight from the ween to the amp via RCA cables, I get plenty of volume. The volume on the we goose from 0 to 100, and without the DAC I am reaching the speaker and amp limits at around 90. However, when I use the DAC, I can turn the volume all the way to 100 without any distortion or clipping, but with also not hitting the max volume the speakers or amp or capable of.
So, unless the DAC had a volume control or an output level setting, which most won't on SPDIF connections, the issue lies with the WiiM Ultra and maybe an input level control. I will check in the WiiM software to see. What brand & model DAC are you using?
Ronen, In all honesty the differences are subtle. If you are streaming from a phone, then I would consider saving the $ and going with the 3602s. That said, try the stock op-amps for about 6 months. They are very good. Unless you understand how the stock configuration sounds, you can't have any idea if the Sparkos are better. Take your time. There is no rush. Get a baseline before you make changes. Great question. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi I will rip my CDs to WAV files and play them. Eventually, on paper, digital data moving from my phone to the DAC, likewise from a quality streamer, so there's not suppose to be a different in the sound quality, if I understand correctly. Thank you again
what would be the value proposition/business case for having both SE and XLR use best chips offered right off the bat? Am thinking of keeping stock chips for SE since I intend to connect DAC to main amp via VLR and SE, in parallel, to active subs ( L/R).
Your thinking is good. My sage (lol) advice is to get it with the stock TI OPA1656s and listen to it for a few months. Then roll the op-amps. The J3 Pro sounds really good right out of the box. (Pro tip) When you want to upgrade the op-amps to Sparkos, buy them from Sparkos. They always offer a 15% off on your purchase from their online store. I currently have a Dayzee in right now and I am running it balanced and Single ended with the stock TI op-amps and holy sh*t does it sound amazing. Thanks for asking and watching.
@@Exgol2005 The J2S AKM4499 & the J3Pro & the Dayzee all share the same sonic signature. The J2S & J3 are as near as makes no difference identical sonically. The Dayzee has better imagining and sound stage. Maybe a touch more treble clarity. You can't go wrong with any of them.
I question whether the Dayzee is a better DAC than the J3 Pro DAC. The main difference as far as I can tell between the two is that the Dayzee has a lot more inputs. The J3 has one set of XLR and one set of RCA inputs. The Dayzee has two sets of XLR and 4 sets of RCA inputs. If you don’t need all the additional inputs, the J3 should be just fine.
Fair point. The Dayzee is significantly different as it uses dual AKM4499 chips in a fully balanced circuit design. I own a J2S and have a Dayzee in for review. There is a difference for sure especially on balanced outputs. I will say you can't go wrong with the J3Pro. The J3Pro & my J2S AKM4499 to my ear, are as near as makes no difference the same. I would suggest buying the one you want with the stock op-amps and listening to it for a few months and then if you feel the need to upgrade just do one output at a time, i.e., if you only use RCA then only roll that op-amp. I hope that answers your query. Thanks so much for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi All I’m saying is that the Dayzee has significantly more inputs and outputs than the J3. If you don’t need those additional inputs/outputs, it becomes harder to justify spending the money on the Dayzee as both the J3 and Dayzee can be fitted with the same op amps. If the additional inputs/outputs are not needed, you are paying quite the premium for a dual mono design.
Dude! Today I swapped out the TI 1656 to Burson v7 vivid and it was transformative. That Dayzee DAC has 8 op amps and I wager that it sounds better than ANYTHING within 3 times the price. PLUS...You can swapp out the op amps. This morning I swapped and upgraded to Burson op amps and my gear is singing. Geshelli is the shit and you all better recognize. With Love😮
@@carloslong839 Here is my strong suspicion. Let’s take the 3 DACs: J2S, J3, and Dayzee. My guess is that the change in op amps is much more noticeable than the hardware differences between these DACs. I don’t doubt that the J3 and the Dayzee have improvements over the J2S, I just question how audible those differences are.
Yes. Until I got the correct Amanero USB driver. You should run the DAC in ASIO mode not in WASAPI mode. What software are you using? Let me know. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi I intend to connect it to a DAP or a Smartphone and play local lossless files (WAV / FLAC) using the "USB Audio Player PRO" App for example? Thank you
@ronenbuium7699 I have not tried that. I do use USB Audio Pro also put typically run it into a Helm Bolt dongle DAC. Give me a day or two and I will try it out. Thx.
An Australian hifi reviewer did a comparison of the Burson V7 Vivid & V7 Classic. He said that the V7 Classic was a much warmer sound & the V7 Vivid was a much more transparent sound to him. I just ordered a J3 today in any case. I requested V7 Classic for the XLR & V7 Vivid for the RCA. Now my order is just shy of $800 for the J3 with an aluminum case. I have a J2/AKM & J2/ESS that were $250 each. I don't need or want USB. I've got a Toppig E50. I was thinking about ordering a VMV Rohm DAC or Gustard or Musician R2R DAC but I don't want to fund communism if I don't have to. Your prices are now way off though. You even have a wood case J3. Again as of July 11 2024, $787.98 with an aluminum case is what I just gave Geshelli for a J3.
I understand. The units I had did not have any Op-amp upgrades. So I think they are still mostly correct. I only had a single V7 Vivid so I can't comment on Lachlan's findings but, he knows what he is doing. The Rohm DAC us of interest to me as well. Maybe I can get the SMSL D300. Who knows. I wish you luck with the new units. Thank you for watching and commenting. I do appreciate it.
@OldGuyHifi Copy that. I thought they had upgraded opamps & you were just swapping them out. Now it makes sense. I just found your channel. I subscribed. This was the first thing I watched.
Adam, Thanks so much. Andrew Sparkos sent me the 2590s as review items and Sherri Geshelli sent me the Burson and I bought the 3602s. So, with only those I had to move forward with the review. I did like the Burson and would love to have heard both Vivid models on all the outputs. Maybe.
@@OldGuyHifi The Classic & Vivid V7 are the same price but are a somewhat different sound from what I understand. We will see. I'll have each I'm my J3 when it gets here.
I don't have a Bifrost 2/64. Mine is a Frankenstein. It is heavily modified. The J2S/J3Pro are Delta-Sigma chip based, and my Bifrost is something else, so the two are not comparable to each other. I like them both, I own them both for different reasons. Thx for asking.
I haven't heard a new Bifrost. Mine is a Frankenstein modified unit. I own a J2S AK4499EXEQ and love it. They are different. I am not sure I can give you a worth while answer. Sorry. Thanks for asking though.
Hello, Old Hi-Fi Guy I recently viewed a video you did on the Harman/Kardon AVR-7000. I have a chance to purchase a AVR-7200 do you consider this model as good as the AVR-7000. Thank You for your videos and your time.
Alex, It has been a long time since I listened to a Dennefrips unit and it was the OG Aries unit. Ladder DACs have a great sound but aren't perfect, but then what is? My fuzzy recollection was that it was smooth and threw a big sound stage. I thought it was very good. I will be getting a Pontus in for review shortly so I will get a refresher. Just to be honest with you, I am consider purchasing a J2S with the 3602s as an extra reference DAC in the system. That kind of hit the sweet spot in performance for me. I kind of like the idea of supporting a family business.
@@OldGuyHifi wow funny you say that. I was thinking of placing my j2 with 3602’s into a headphone stack for my bedroom (already have a jutenheim 2) and i was looking to get a new dac for my reference system is why i ask.
Alex, See if you can get a demo on the Dennefrips or at least have the option to return it. Everything is a bit up in the air since Vinshine Audio is longer selling Dennefrips. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
Please understand that all of my reviews are completely subjective. They are my opinion and not to be taken as criticism or as negative. I can only share my feelings and personal conclusions.
The J3 Pro shares it basic architecture with it sibling the J2S socketed AK4499EXEQ + AK4191EQ hybrid DAC implementation. It has been redesigned to accommodate the much larger Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 op-amps. Geno Geshelli also updated the circuit design with an improved internal power supply, an improve oscillator chip and a relay switched USB board.
Thanks again because your insights and explanations help form my outlook on my gear.
I buy new gear every month. My mantra is Concert everyday and Christmas every month.
Inadvertently your input generated a purchase of digital to digital help for my Wiim Ultra.
This video has me targeting a purchase of the Geshelli J3. I have a J2 with Burson Vivid but I missed the hint that the 4499 chip was the way to go. That decision would have allowed me to scale my DAC exponentially.
Anyways, instead of a new set of passive headphones...I'm going all in on a keeper DAC.
Anytime I can support OUR friends at Geshelli Labs is a good thing.
Best report of the Geshelli DACs in You Tube so far. Short, concise, and straight to the point. Kudos and looking forward for more!
Thank you so much. That's kind of you to say. I am glad you are interested in my content. There will be a good one coming up this weekend on vintage German speakers.
Excellent video, Ed! You have *nailed* what I am also hearing in these DACs. I now have the eight SS2590 op-amps installed in my Dayzee - and it is *by far* the best DAC I have ever heard.
You're a "natural" at this - very informative, and direct.
Thank you so much. Maybe I could review a speaker or two? I will pay the freight.
@@OldGuyHifi The thought has crossed my mind! I will be shipping the first Tower 6 flat pack tomorrow, and MLTL-6 flat packs have been shipping for a while now.
I *just* revised the crossovers for the dome tweeter versions, and I think it is better than what I had at AXPONA. The cabinet of the Tower 6 has also been revised - and the bass is better AND extends to *25Hz* vs 28Hz for the prototype.
Keep me posted. You have my email. Thank you so much for considering it.
@@OldGuyHifi put two of his TLine towers on a J3 and use a few Fosi V3 monos with the same opamp in all of them and let us know how good it is!
@@morgande I think they deserve something better then the Fosis as nice as those are. I would like to run them on the Orchard Audio amp. BTW I am getting that back.
This is the video that got me hooked on your channel. I was curious what folks had to say about the J3 Pro, found this video, and immediately subscribed. I'm very impressed by your knowledge and how you explain things so clearly. Keep up the fantastic work!
Awesome, thank you!
Very nice work! Thorough, competent, clear, and devoid of filler. Take another listen to USB on each of the two units, they are different circuits.
Not really. The USB boards are the same programing. On the J3 Pro and the Dayzee it has a relay circuit that can be shut down when there is no incoming signal. Sonically, I could detect no real difference but, that's just me. I will ask Geno when I see him next week. Thx.
Excellent review! Thank you for clearly explaining the technical details of the DAC chips and not assuming that your audience are all hardware engineers. I have a great ear, but I'm stupid. This was the first video I watched of your channel and will subscribe based just on this. Keep it going!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Earlier in 2024 I did not wait for the J3 and got the J2 socketed. 4499 chip and Burson V7 Classic op amps, single ended only. My seventh DAC in 25 years. I was concerned about Burson V7 Vivid due to my Klipsch Chorus II horn speakers. I use Tidal through a Blusound Node and a Tascam transport. Both sound excellent, but Tidal HD recordings are exceptional.
Geshelli J2 socketed DAC goes great with Conrad Johnson PV12B preamp and KT-88 amplification.
Great reviews!
Thank you for your view and comment. The J2S and J3Pro fire all intents and purposes see sonically identical. I bought the J2S I used in the review.
Nice job, Ed. Im about to get my first DAC, and I believe the J3 will be the one. I always appreciate your reviews. I was born in '62 and raised outside Chicago, so maybe that's why I can relate to your channel. I'm in Dallas now. Thanks again, my windy city friend.
Where? I have been in Naperville for 63 of my 65 years. I am glad you are enjoying the videos. I hope you enjoy the J3 as much as I did/do. Thank you so much.
@OldGuyHifi Well, you sure have seen the tremendous change in that once sleepy town to a sprawling suburb.
@@dan-sc7fm Yes indeed. Naperville is now the 3rd largest city in IL. Who'd a thunk it?
I, too, was born in ‘62 in a western suburb of Chicago where I grew up buying gear at Pacific Stereo and Sounds Deluxe. I still live in the area today.
I used to know the guys at Sounds Deluxe on Ogden in Westmont. That's such a coincidence.
Great review, Ed. I'm new to the whole DAC universe and this is REALLY helpful.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thx.
Your reviews are really good.
I’m waiting for the geshelli labs dayzee review.
I just finished filming it and am editing it now. It will be out soon. Hint:👍
Ed I am a bit confused as to relative merits of the changes in the board and clock upgrades of the J3 with stock op amps and Sparkos upgrades. Bang for sounds like if one were willing to restrict it to single ended the J2 might deliver the goods with the double chip.Anyway I'll watch it again. Your rapidly becoming one of the reviewers that is in the top tier for me.Oh yeah and I think it was Randy over at Cheapaudioman that said that you had hipped hi to using a DAC as a re-clocker out of a Wiim before the main DAC and that one can't screw up the sound,that you can multiple re clocker etc.If you can do your own video on that (or maybe I missed it) or swapping out clocks that would be great.Have a great and successful 2025 I'll be here with 'ya
I will probably do a video on reclockers & DDCs. Maybe after the holidays. Thank you so much for the kind words. I appreciate it.
Thanks for your review! I look forward to your thoughts when you get the Dayzee in. Everybody really seems to like the Geshelli so it’s nice to see it confirmed by an expert. If and when I upgrade my DAC I want it to be a Geshelli. I’m currently using an Audioquest dragonfly red.
Michael, I also have a Dragonfly Red! I use it on my phone with IEMs. Good DAC. I would love to review a Dayzee. Who knows maybe. Thanks so much for your view and comment.
Ed: Great review that was concise and easy to follow and understand. I upgraded my Geshelli J2S from the Sparkos SS3602 to the Sparkos SS2590 this week. You are 100% correct in your evaluation. Even my 76 year old "stone deaf" ears could hear the dramatic improvement! My system of ELAC UFR52 tower speakers, EMOTIVA 135 watt receiver and ONKYO CD changer sound unbelievable. All aspects are markedly improved and I am hearing things I have not heard before.
Chris G. San Diego.
Chris, That's awesome. I am so glad you are enjoying the sound. Gear that can put a smile on your face is a real kick, Thanks for watching and sharing your experience.
@@ChrisGarrett-q1x hey Chris, fellow J2S user here, thinking about upgrading to the 2590 on the unbalanced output. Were there any special connectors needed or was it a simple swap out?
@@moremeditations3622 I'm not sure I understand balanced vs. unbalanced, so here is what was done. My previous amp did not have XLR, only RCA connection. Because of this I only have 1 of the 2590 op amps. There were no special connectors and fit perfectly in place of the 3602.
Forgot to mention that I also upgraded to the AKM 4490 chip set. This was done by Geshelli. Sent it to Geshelli for the install. This was also another great improvement in sound.
I hope this helps.
@@ChrisGarrett-q1x yes this helped a lot, thank you!
one final note. Sparkos sent the SS2590 fully assembled as I am not a do it yourself person.
You have a talent sir. Very well done!
You are too kind. Thank you.
I'm glad I found your channel, as far as I'm concerned you're already one of the best reviewers on YT. This review was excellent!
Thank you for the compliment. I am so glad you enjoyed the video. I am so glad you found my channel. Thx.
Amazing review and information about DAC circuitry and chippers. Much appreciated. I may have to consider a J3 some time, but looking at a ladder DAC next in this kind of price range, but still aways out. Thank you as always for your time, efforts, and sharing this with us all. Stay well, Sir.
Simon, my friend thank you. There are a lot of interesting DACs coming out. I know that there are some less expensive R2R units on the horizon so I think we will be spoiled for choice. As far as Delta-Sigma style these are the best I have heard. Just wait as I have a couple of streamer/DACs in for review and there will be a bit of flack directed at me when that review hits end of next week. It should be fun.
Well done Ed. They make great products.
Thank you and they do.
I exchanged my TX 1656 to Burson v7 vivid in the RCA stage of my Geshelli J2...WOW WOW WOW!
It sounds like a totally new device and me likey very much.
Next month I'm going for the Aperion Planar Super tweeters and will keep you posted.
I'm curious why there is little chirping about this class of device.
I would think that being able to capture 20 - 40 thousand hertz within 6 DB would sound good.
Well, next month we shall find out.
Great review! Appreciate the descriptions of the various opamps and the 'flavors' they provide.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for explaining the hybrid chipset of the AKM. I had no idea it was partially multi-bit.
I’ve had my eye on the Holo Cyan 2 ladder DAC for some time now, having loved the sound from my current Modi Multibit. But it sounds as though the AKM chipset as implemented here in the J3 approximates the character of R2R DACs.
Have you, by chance, heard the Cyan 2 and, if so, how would you say it compares to the J3?
Thank you.
I have not heard the Cyan 2 yet...
@@OldGuyHifi I'll keep my eyes on your channel for when you do.
You had a stand alone DAC 1988? Wow Ed you were an early adopter! I have yet to go down that rabbit hole. Great info as usual keep it flowing.
Thank you for your view and comment. Yes. Stand alone DACs we're a thing even back then. They were large full size beasts. Mine weighed in at 25 lbs. It had 2 large torridal power supplies and wood sides! It was a Marantz CDA-94. I also had the matching CD transport and DAT recorder. The whole kit retailed for $6K. Good thing we were Marantz dealers.
Another great review, Ed. Thoroughly researched beyond due diligence. 😊
Thank you sir. I appreciate your support.
Awesome review! I am new to this stuff your explanation of the components really help me to understand more about this review .
I am glad you got something out of it. Thx.
Hi Ed. Great review. I'm a newer sub to your channel and really enjoying your reviews. Keep up the great work.
Thank you. Welcome. I appreciate your subscription very much.
Thank you for the additional review of the J3. I’m currently saving up for a good DAC and I am definitely going for the J3. I have the sparkos 2590 already so I’m ready.
You will love it. Best wishes.
That was great Ed! I got a j2 at axpona last year and an a3 at axpona this year, I’m definitely looking forward to next year’s Geshelli purchase and this j3 will probably be it, unless I can convince the wife that we need a zoofa instead 😂
Brian, As always thank you. I think the Zoofa is on hold. I know some of the components have been discontinued so it may have to be a complete redesign. That said I did love Geno's mono blocks. Wow.
Really appreciate your channel and this review. Since I only have single ended vintage stereo equipment I just ordered the J2S. I was already interested in Geshelli but your review cinched it for me. Ordered with the standard OpAmps with plans to upgrade later to save money now but with the best AKM. Thanks for your review.
Jon, You won't be disappointed. I promise. The unit sounds great even with the stock TI op-amps. When you want the Sparkos go to Andrew's site: sparkoslabs.com. He is always running some sort of promo and you can save some money that way. Thank you so much for your vote of confidence.
Great review. Thanks. Would be interesting if you were able to hold onto the J3 Pro and combine with their Achel Pro as preamp / DAC combo driving the Orchard Audio. Would probably make a nice reference level review system…
George, It would for sure. That said I have the Orchard Audio PecanPi+ Premier streamer DAC in and it also uses the AK4499EXEQ + AK4191EQ combo chip set and can be a pre-amp. Unfortunately I had to return the Amp. I will ask for it back and maybe do a review of the OA combo. Thanks for the suggestion and your comment.
@@OldGuyHifi It’s unfortunate you had to return the OA amp. Would have been interesting to compare the 2 AK DAC implementation (or any source) with the same amplifier/speaker setup - ie introduce a new component for review but the rest of the system is a known quantity.
@@georgechirayus4865 Turns out I will have the amp back in my possession next week. So watch this space.
@@OldGuyHifi Niice!! 🎉🍾🎊
Very concise and knowledgeable review. Subscribed. Look forward to watching more of your reviews.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your subscribing.
This video is EXACTLY what I needed ! Thank you
Thank you. I hope I can continue to do videos that are what you needed! Thanks.
Really excellent review . Glad I found your channel.
I am glad you found too. Thanks for returning.
love your videos. keep them coming!
Thank you. I will try. I have a controversial one waiting in the wings for next week.
Good review had a J2 sold it getting a J2S
You won't be sorry. Thanks for tuning in and sharing. Let me know what you think of the J2S when you get it. Thx.
Great video, Ed. Some of the tech explanations are a bit over my head, but I enjoy learning and being challenged to explore more.
You can always feel free to ask me for more info. oldguyhifi@gmail.com. I would be happy to help.
Great review. They make awesome products.
Thanks Jim. I agree. They do a great job.
Just swapped the 2590 into my J2 4493. Using the unblanced outs. From the 3602 to the 2590, it is quite an amazing upgrade. Thanks for the heads up!! Dig the channel!!
Bobby-Bobby, You are welcome. I am glad you are enjoying that new op-amp.
@@BobbyTwoTimes Hello, do you have use raiser to install the SS2590 into your J2, just to add i have the J2S dac.
The stacked op amp from Sparkos will fit the single ended J2S. It's snug, but it works. Balanced will need risers and a taller case. Sherri at Geshelli can set you up if you want the J3 case, and front/rear faceplate that accommodate the J2 board.
Top-notch and very informative review.
Thank you so much.
I really like that you have taken the time to explain why this chipset is a separation from other Delta Sigma designs.
I know you have returned the review unit Chord Quests, can I ask you how the 4499 chipset sounds against FPGA sound of the Quest?
BTW - not in this video, you talk at some what about the value of a good source point (which I totally agrees with). Can you please do a detail separate video on this notion.
I hope you get a chance to hear and review Gustard A26 (4499) DAC too.
So far only the Laiv Harmony has dethroned the Qutest. The Dayzee is very good on balanced but the J2S & J3 are so close on single ended that you could make a case for just getting one of those. I am working on trying to get the Gustard. Thanks
Great review. I'm just tired of chasing dacs. I bought the best l could and now they'll have to do. Your info is great for new buyers though.
Michelle, I agree with you. I thought I was done and in a long term relationship with my Schiit DAC. This new chip technology from AKM is spinning my head around. It sounds very good and the units have a couple of features I don't have like DSD and balanced outs. What DAC did you get? Thanks so much for you comment and for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi My Geshelli Dac totally outclasses my Schiit. I love Schiit gear, but my phono amp has been replaced by a Darlington Labs MM6B and I am now running a Geshelli Dac. Huge upgrades.
Christopher, Which Schiit and which Geshelli DACs do you have?
I’ve been wanting a new dac simply just to handle more sources I’ve been running a smsl su1 and it gets old swapping optical from tv to cd player cuz it only has 1. This Geshelli looks amazing im guessing this will be my next dac.
They build a great product. Sounds amazing as well. Thanks for tuning in.
Very informative.
As I’ve mentioned in the comments of your fiio r2r dac, Sound stage, width and depth are what I’m looking for. My speakers are Maggie’s.
I can recommend the Geshelli J2S or J3 Pro with the AKM4499 setup. They sound near as makes no difference the same. Either of those will give your system all of the needed signal to develop the best sound stage it is capable of. There lots of other great DACs I just happen to really like the sound of the Geshelli units. I also like Denafrips and Chord but they get expensive. Let me know what you decide to do. BTW, I have a Denafrips Pontus review coming out & I just got a Chord Cutest in for review. Thanks for your view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi Hello and thank you for your detailed reply. Yes. The J2s with Sparkos is roughly $100 less than the J3. Good to know your thoughts on the comparison. I was very interested in the j2s, but there were a few on us audiomart right after they were purchased. So then I moved on to the Aune x8 VIII. It can accept Sparkos and it’s a preamp. I recently removed my Schiit Magnius from the chain. Just using my DACs. My amp has attenuators.
I’m 70. ExPat living in the 3rd world. I’m losing interest upgrading. Inflation is pretty bad here and that’s that.
@@jayem1826 The Aune is great unit, Sorry to hear about the local economy. I get it. I was very happy with what I had prior to starting the channel. Now I am very fortunate to have companies willing to send me gear for review so the upgrade itch get a good scratching. Also, the channel does a good job of keeping me busy. You know what they say about idle hands! Thanks so much for being a part of my channels growth and part of the community.
Howdy Ed. With a very early preorder, I guess I am among the first to receive the J3. When I got the ship notice I talked with Sherri G. And asked if any review units were out. She said just you. Unawares, I sought you out and very much like (& subscribed to) your channel. As I have several 3602’s I ordered mine w V7’s (Classics on XLR & Vivid on SE). To me it seemed strong mids were kinda pushing back upper air, so I switched to 3602 and found slight improvement. Still craving more cymbal shimmer, steel string ring, and violin air, I have now got the SS2590 dual rig on the way. I saw the 2590 described as “more transparent” on a forum; and your opinion triggered the immediate order. Thx for good concise info. 👍
I am so glad you got some info from me that helped. Thank you for your view and comment.
Thanks for your review!
Would love to hear your take on the J3 vs Bifrost please! If you share, please let us know which version of the Bifrost you are using and which modifications you have in place.
Welcome back Mr. Needham. Thank you. I would love to review/listen to the latest version of the Bifrost but, as of yet I don't have a relationship with Schiit. My Bifrost started out as the original AKM version. It is a "Gen 5" but has been upgraded to Multibit and Unison USB. All the capacitors have been replaced with tighter tolerance Elna caps. It lacks the current versions balanced gozinta & gozoutas, so it is single ended only. I hope to work with Schiit in the future as obviously I like their stuff.
Hi Ed, thanks again for the review. One more question, if you would:
Do you know if the J3 accepts DSD via DoP at the coax input?
Graz
It does not. Thx.
Ed, thank you for you informative review on the J2S and the J3 Pro. I have the same older Schiit Bifrost Multibit w/ Unison USB (USB upgraded from USB-3(?) to USB-5 and finally to Unison-USB) you use in your system, feeding a Schiit Freya Preamp (original model) going into a Yamaha Stereo Power Amplifier B-2X into some Juan Marie Raynaud Trenté speakers. SPDIF both co-axial and optical are very good into the Bifrost are excellent, but USB is outstanding and improves the musicality of the system to a whole next level. This was not the case before upgrading the Bifrost to Unison-USB. My question for you is how do compare the USB performance between the 3 DACs? Also, I have been enjoying your channel for several months and I am subscribed.
Thank you for subscribing. Great question. The J2S/J3 Pro both use an Amanero USB chip on a board that Geshelli has designed and builds in house. Like the Unison USB design, the Geshelli design does offer electromagnetic (EMI) and electrostatic (ESD) isolation but, whether or not the Geshelli design offers complete EMI and ESD isolation like the Schiit design, is something I would have to ask them about. In practical terms they are almost indistinguishable sonically. The real difference is in the DAC topology i.e., the Schiit Mulitbit AD5547 chip set vs AK4499 chip set has a far greater impact on the sound of the unit then the USB circuits. They are different sounding but, it is just different. One is not necessarily better that the other. I love my Bi-Frost but I am smitten with the Geshelli and the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191 chip set. I have a review of another DAC that uses the AKM chips that sounds great as well coming out soon. Long winded answer. Sorry. Thanks so much for watching.
@@OldGuyHifi Ed, Thank you for taking the time to respond. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Great detailed video
Glad you liked it! Thank you.
just discovered your channel...subscribed! can the 2590 be ordered already installed ? (Geshelli website does not seem to offer this option)
I don't believe so. You can always email the Geshellis at info@geshelli.com and ask. It is pretty easy to do yourself. Also, if you do, do it yourself, buy the op-amps from the Sparkos site directly as they will give a first time buyer discount of 15%. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
The J2S' balanced outputs can be fitted with SS2590s. It requires a riser on the front socket and an extender for the rear. It's a tight fit and one needs to be careful, but it definitely elevates the J2S to another level, as it does the J3 Pro. This arguably makes for the best sounding setup under $1000 USD, especially when powered by a decent linear PS. I give second place to the Burson V7V, which I found to give a bit more midrange energy and emphasis on soundtage depth. The V7C is very balanced and smoother, possibly a better match for the ESS platforms for the reasons you mentioned. Lots of fun here.
Theodore, That's great info. I know Geno had some trepidation about putting 2590s on the J2S board. I think that's partially why he did the redesign. But man it makes a difference. As I type this I am listening to a DAC that also the AK4499EXEQ+AK4191 chipset. Holy moly is it good. It may be the best "chip" based DAC I have ever heard. The review will be out soon. I think that chipset is a true gamer changer for delta-sigma designs.
I can't believe I missed this original posting...
I find it interesting that the two AKM mfg DAC & streaming products you reviewed are the two I have been considering. I already have a great streamer with a Bryson BDP3 (and not really sure I want to go to the Pi route). So only am I targeting the Geshelli, I actually live close enough to have had a TOUR of their factory about a month ago! I listened to the J2 J3, and Dayzee for quite some time in their listening room and they're very impressive. The Dayzee sounds great just with its standard configuration...but it has a bit more features than I need (and it's an an absolute beast) :)
I also was curious between the different op-amps and the two i was most looking at were the Burson Vivid and the Sparkos Pro.
Right now I'm dealing with some blown drivers in my fantastic (but vintage) speakers, but I'm definitely leaning towards getting one of their products. And yes the family is as nice as can be... I have to mention that :-)
Scott, They are great people. It is very funny, Fed-Ex just dropped off my J2S right before I started to respond to you. Obviously I chose the J2S because I can roll the op-amps. The difference between the J2S and J3 are very minimal. Sonically, they are as near as makes no difference the same. That's why I bought the J2S. BTW, Geno is sending me a Dayzee to review. Should be fun. Good luck with your speakers and keep me posted on which Geshelli unit you get. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifiI'm definitely going to hold off until you get that Dayzee to see what you think based on my listening session with it using the regular configuration...because it's probably going to be come with other op-amps. That's a whole different beast in that there's absolutely no filters or settings of any kind...the way I like it. Hint: if you're familiar with the AKM filters & prefer a particular one such as brickwall, let them know & they'll set it at the factory.
I still have a 100% analog system anchored with an amazing Audio Research MP1 multi-channel preamp & Conrad Johnson amplifier (no tone controls whatsoever)...with 99% of my material being DSD. So I know all about pure unadulterated signals :).
Currently I use a modified (image files) Oppo 205 which is no slouch but as you know is Sabre based and seeing as it is going on 7 years old I know I can do better for 2Ch anyway. Obviously, multi-channel is going to have to stay with that for a while because no one makes multi-channel analog DACs anymore if your name is not Exasound. Speaking of the Schiit you have,I just got a Syn to analog-expand that 2ch
audio myself...
@@Scott-DJ I am like you in that I prefer a pure sound. That said I do have a Schiit Lokius EQ. Because of the varity of gear coming in and out of here sometimes a bit of EQ can make a difference. I don't know how the Dayzee will be configured. I can always ask Andrew Sparks to send op-amps for demo. We will see. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifiSounds good. Keep in mind you'll need all eight op-amps to use on the Dayzee because it doesn't use a typical channel structure. That could get pricey with some of those options..
Thanks for the review!
I especially appreciate your explanation of the hybrid chip set.
I’m still curious whether the power supply upgrade in the JNOG3 makes a difference in the sound?
Which DAC sounds better w/ the same chip set & OpAmps?
John, There were times where I thought I could hear a tiny difference and then times I was not sure at all. I think upgrading a J2S with a external linear power supply would yield a bigger difference. Because I could not get the big Sparkos in the balanced side of the J2S i can't say for sure. The both sounded as near as makes no difference, at least to me, the same with any combo of op-amps on the single ended side. Now the J3 with the 2590s on the balanced side was quite a remarkable difference. More authority and drive. Better detail without any harshness at all. It felt like the tap was fully opened. One of the best I have ever heard. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
Also wondering about the usefulness of adding something like a SMSL PO100 between streamer and the J3 using optical, or whether it's better to connect streamer directly to USB on the J3
USB out to the SMSL PO100 out to the J3 on either coax or Toslink is the perfect connection. I use that set up for my J2S, Dayzee and the Laiv Harmony I have. IMHO it improves thing markedly. I hear better low level detail and a more expansive sound stage & image. It is well worth the $60. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
Hi Ed. Thanks for a great review. I just ordered a J2S with AK4499 based on your review. Are there not three different gain settings in the J2/J3, low, medium and high? Did you check out this when you compared them?
I did. The output level has no effect on the sound of the units. I run them in high setting always. They do output a smidge more than 2 volts but I find it to be a better match up to other gear I have in for review. Thanks for asking.
Have you checked out the inexpensive Fosi ZD3? I got one and it’s OK-I really like the HDMI/eARC support for my TV, but I got the sense the AKM hybrid approach might be more to my taste… I like really present vocals/midrange and a warmer darker sound than you hear with the SABR designs generally…
Everyone thinks sparkos op amps are fabulous-but usually the smaller ones. I’ve never seen anyone use these big ones you seem to love… I think they’re very pricey right? And you need *8* for the Dayzee bringing that unit north of 2K, whereas only two for XLR J3 pro (so more like $800)
I have the Fosi ZD-3 in right now for review and I must say that I am pleasantly surprised by its performance. I normally don't like the sound of ESS Sabre DACs but this may be the exception. I have rolled the op-amps. I did not use the extra 3 that were included in the box yet. I had some SX52B Full Discrete Dual Op Amps I got on Ali-Express and used those. Wow! Really good sound with a big reduction in the "glare" I normally hear with Sabre DACs. I will try the Sparkos later. BTW those SX52B op-amps were only about $12.40 each. Yes the Dayzee needs all 8. With a Lexan case and all the op-amps the Dayzee comes in at just under $1700.00. I have all 8 in my Dayzee review sample now and, OH MAN is it good. My regular unit is a J2S with the 2590 on single ended and the 3602s on balanced and it sounds awesome as well. I always recommend that you listen to you DAC for at least a few months before you roll op-amps. If you don't get a good idea of its stock sound you will never know if the upgrade made a difference. Let me know your thoughts. Great comment and thank you for tuning in.
@ thanks for your response.
I have not rolled on the ZD3 but I can tell you the muses02 made a big difference smoothing out the sound and widening the stage of the V3 mono amps. I woulda gone for the J3 Pro or even the Dayzee if I thought they would be a significant step up *and if* they had HDMI input. Then again the ZD3 is *so cheap* I can just keep it for the TV and use something else for music. The 3 provided rolling op amps included by Fosi are not well regarded so I wouldn’t even bother with those. Just check the sparkos, the muses02, and maybe some other discrete choices that will fit-I think the big sparkos won’t fit… those SX52B-did you compare them to the stock op amps and they are “glare-reduced” relative to the stock? If so I will defo try them.
But maybe a pair o sparkos on the ZD3 will work magic. Grzegorz of Virtual HiFi really liked the ZD3 even though he doesn’t usually like sigma-delta of any sort, and is saying he has built his own op amps -I m seriously considering his Qualio IQ speakers but I gotta trigger them before the tariffs kick in… I have acoustic Zen adagios right now. he also liked the LAiV in the R2R category for the money (2-3K: he liked it better than the Denafrips offerings) though his fave is the T+A dac which is in the 5-8K range.
Hey Ed... I have a technical question. I have a J3 Pro and Erish 3 stack loaded with the 2590 Sparkos Op Amps in Both. I have the J3 Pro going to a Schiit Lokius tone control and then to the Erish 3(XLR) and OG LYR3(RCA). To my surprise the RCA connection is LOUDER than the XLR connection with the 2590's installed in all 3. When I change the Lokius from XLR to RCA the volume is obviously louder coming out of the Erish 3 and LY3 and I'm wondering if this is normal or is it an odd occurrence? I've always been under the impression that XLR connections are louder than RCA. Thanks. You have a New Subscriber 🍻
The Lokius will take single ended inputs and convert the signal up to a balanced voltage even when you listen to the Lokius balanced out even if it is in the single ended setting. I noticed that also. I am pretty sure it is not changing the signal format from single ended to balanced just upping the voltage. In my experience, unless you are running very long cable runs, single ended and balance, near as makes no difference sound the same, just a bit louder. Great question Thanks for coming over from the short video.
@@OldGuyHifi I'm liking the power I'm getting with the J3 Pro, Erish3 and LYR3 with the Lokius in between. Both amps drive the ZMF Atrium with ease and there is some nice Bass and Dynamic punch and slam
Sweet rig. Very resolving. I love my Lokius. A little cut here and a small boost there and Hazah! I am off to my happy place.
Have a J2s 4499 and found that the single ended is indeed louder also.
I just ordered the J3 and the Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 op-amps ~ assembled onto the adapter (recommended by Geshelli) for the unbalanced outputs (I don't have any use for XLR at this particular time, but I can always upgrade when I do)!
I can't wait!
Part of the reason I placed these orders was because of this review (along with Cheap Audio Man's).
Plus, I just subscribed... your channel should do very well.
You will love the J3. Thank you for the words of encouragement and for subscribing. Welcome.
Had the J2S with the older AKM chipset and 2590s for some time and love it. It is now moving to my desktop setup as I have had the J3 with 2590s for a couple weeks, and am enjoying it with my Black Ice Audio preamp and Orchard Audio monoblocks. Would love to hear your thoughts of this compared to the Laiv Harmony DAC. Obviously a different price category, but very curious to get feedback from someone that has compared both side by side. Might be worth seeing if they will send you a review unit.
I have just reached out to them. Great suggestion. My concern is that my channel is too small. Thank you so muc for the suggestion and view.
@@OldGuyHifi Well, they are pretty small in terms of market share as they are new as well. Fingers crossed!
@@trebep 🤞
I contacted Laiv and they responded. They said they would review my channel and let me know. Fingers crossed. Thank you for the suggestion.
@@OldGuyHifi all the reviews have been strong, almost too strong so it would be great to have a for sure unbiased review.
I've read the comments and so I know you have addressed this subject directly.
My quandary is...can I infer that the poorest quality clock timing of a digital signal like the Wiim Ultra...means that a digital to digital bridge has MORE opportunity for increased dynamic response.
In other words, does the fact that the Wiim Ultra has poor clocking and potentially jitter mean that I have MORE to look forward to when I implement my SMSL PO100pro?
Just asking?
The PO 100 made a difference with every DAC I tested it with. Yes, on entry level DACs it was more pronounced. That I said I was testing in my reference system and my reference headphone system. Those are both pretty revealing. Hey for 70 bucks it is worth the chance. You can always return it. Let me know what you decide.
I look forward to your review of the Pecan Pi + Streamer DAC - I think it uses the same AKM chips.
Indeed it does. I have been listening to it for a few days now and it is very good. I have the Starkrimson amp coming back next week so I will do a full system review. I am also thinking about doing a deep dive on the AKM tech featured in these chips. I do think it may be the first time a quasi Delta-Sigma convertor will be a rival to R2R or true multibit DACs. I was/am that impressed. Thanks for commenting and returning to the channel.
@@OldGuyHifi You explain audio better than anyone on TH-cam. Keep up the great work!
@@sbowyer525 I am not so sure but thank you so much.
Ed… was it a struggle to hear the differences between the op-amps? The reason I ask relates to your discussion of ESS voltage DACs verses the AKM current DACs. It is my understanding that the op-amps are used to convert voltage to current. Therefore, an ESS DAC leans more heavily on the op-amps and thus op-amps will have a greater influence on the sound. I’m thinking that since the AKM DAC is already current based, the effect of the op-amps might be more subtle and difficult to pick out.
Steve, you always have great questions and subsequent responses. I appreciate that. There are very few ESS DACs that allow Op-amp swapping. That said I do have an $80 DAC in for review that has socketed op-amps. Should be interesting. The most obvious place where the swap is apparent is on the balanced outputs. Yes op-amps do work that way but the amount of current any IC chip can handle is rather small so the op-amps bring that up to a line level of 2 volts on single ended and 4ish volts on balanced with sufficient current to drive the input of a pre-amp, especially passive ones. The differences are subtle and for the most part they don't leap out at you. The differences manifest themselves in 1) a reduced noise floor and 2) it better fine detail like transient decay. So, yes it takes some time to suss it out. I make lots of notes over many hours. There are times when I can't discern any difference. The other thing is that just because there is a difference it doesn't necessarily mean it is a negative i. e., the Burson Vivid sounded very warm and nice, much to my liking but the Sparkos 3602 had more detail. No real winner. Great question and comment. I hope I was able to answer it satisfactorily. Thanks so much for your view.
I edited my response to include some additional information. Sorry it's 1AM here and I am knackered. Thx
@@OldGuyHifi 1a here too… go to bed.
I didn't make the connection from your other post that you were local. Thx.
Great, great review! Thank you for detailed experiences with the new J3, as well as taking the time to explain the unique new chipset from AKM, and pairing with the Sparkos. How do you feel about the J3 in relation to your modified bifrost?
I used to feel the same way about ess Sabre until I got an Okto Research Dac 8 stereo, which is a very different approach using all the possible channels while keeping distortion super low. Very organic, no sheen or etching etc. But now am really curious about the J3 or even the new Dayzee case on what you just explained 🙏🏼
John, Thank you for the kind words. I struggle with the Bifrost vs the J2/J3 in all honesty. I love my Bifrost. It has a delicacy and tone that is just so sweet and full. Kind of like a Hemke reed vs D'Addario from Sweetwater. Just sounds right. Now the J2/J3 are right there. The more I listen the more I think I need to added a Geshelli to the system. I really think the AKM Hybrid chip set is key as well. It gave Geno a ton of flexibility to design these units. I have several friends with Dayzees and I trust their ears, who claim it is the best sub $5K DAC they have ever heard. I would love to hear one some day. Thanks so much for watching an d commenting. BTW, I am not a musician.
@@OldGuyHifi Oh man, that’s a brilliant way to describe it! I can think of very few other ways to analogy personal tonal preference than the way a reed plays on a familiar mouthpiece. That alone peaks my interest in what Geshelli is doing. Btw, Hemke’s are great. You are definitely a saxophonist if you know that difference. I’ve settled on La Voz (D’Addario), even though there are many more premium refined types and brands, so case in point (lol!) 🙏🏼👍🏼
John, The best of anything is the one you favor and have had the best long term experience with. Thank you so much for responding to my comment.
As one who is strongly considering the J2S with the Sparkos upgrade, is it worth saving up for the J3 Pro with Sparkos instead?
That's a tough one. If you only need single ended out then a J2 with the big 2590 would be excellent. If you do balanced/XLR then the J3 is the best choice. In all honesty, either unit is very good straight out of the box. You can always upgrade the op-amps and do a linear power supply. Thank you for your view and comment/question. I do appreciate it.
Stellar review! Could you please share which you felt performed better as a DAC, between the J3 Pro and the Orchard Audio Peacan Pi+ DAC/Streamer you also reviewed?
The OA Pecan Pi is a great DAC but a lousy streamer. Not the hardware, Volumio is the weak link. Tha DAC in the OA is the same AK4499EXEQ chip set as in the Geshelli. I found it to be a bit too clinical. I think Leo the designer focused on getting the best measurements. Geno Geshelli listens as well as measures so I felt more connected to the music with the J3Pro. I did wind up buying a J2S AK4499 for my system. The J2S and the J3Pro are near as makes no difference sonically identical. Orchard Audio does make a DAC only version without the streamer for less cost. Again, I found the Geshelli to be more engaging. I hope that helps. Thanks for the view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi Greatly appreciate your very honest and helpful response. Sounds like the Geshelli is more up my alley, given the engagement and musicality factor. Plus I’m more than happy to pass on having to deal with the very frustrating Volumio app which I had brief and frustrating experience with.
Like your presentation style. Me 63, love vinyl, have some cds and fairly new to streaming. Dynamics, big soundstage /holograghic important to me. Hate shril/ clinical sound.
Using Qobuz, BS Node 2i, J2 non upgradable. Wouldnt mind supporting Geshellis again.
Ed what can I expect if I upgrade from J2 basic to J3 Sparkos? You infered warm yet detail with J3. 2 winners!
Pontus, Border Patrol, Gustard R26 have been in the running.
Which chip does your J2 have? If it is the AKM 4493 then that's a real good DAC even without swappable op-amps. The difference between the J2S and the J3 Pro sonically is very little. Geno re-did the board to accommodate the Sparkos 2590 chips which are giant. Also those chips require a bit more power to run so he upgraded the power supply. When I made my choice, I went for the J2S AKM4499 option with a single Sparkos 3602 for the RCA outputs. I feel I made a great choice. I have listen tot he J2S side by side with a Pontus II 12th, a Chord Cutest, a FiiO K9AKM, an SMSL SU -X, an Audiolab M DAC+, my modified Schiit Bifrost and the new Geshelli Dayzee. Conclusion: The J2S is every bit as good as all of those but is edged out by the Cutest, the Bifrost (Slightly) and of course the Dayzee which is a J2S/J3 Pro on steroids. I could happily live forever with the J2S with no regrets. Yes, the sound is smooth (warmish) and very detailed. Bang for the buck, I don't think you can beat a Geshelli unit of any stripe. I hope that answers your question. Thanks for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi Thanks for detailed reply. Sounds like I should stick with the J2. Seems crazy a $250 dac could be in same game as $1600 one. I know it has many good reviews. Im pretty sure it has the AKM4499. I also have a new Keces LPS that Ill be using with the J2 soon. My rig has been in storage 1 1/2 years.
I only play HiRez, but found streaming to be very hit or miss for quality. Thought maybe a dac upgrade might help.
Wish my area still had HiFi stores to hear different products, but now we rely on reviewers. Thanks!
@@bryfar6178 My guess is that you have an AKM4493 as the 4499 was only offered in the J2S at a significant cost. I have heard from others and experienced it myself, that the BS Node is an inexpensively built unit and lacks an internal clock so the signal can be full of noise. Did your J2 come with an USB input? If so try connecting a PC/MAC via USB and just run the regular Qobuz desktop app and see if there is a difference. If it sounds better then... Good luck and Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi Your probably right AKM4493. Hmm, Ive read alot of good comments on the BS Node2i. I didnt pay it but, it sold for $600.00 4 years ago, but no doubt there are better streamers.
Im surprised a pc could be a better streaming source, but I dont have that option.
There are devices like this: SMSL PO100 PRO: amzn.to/3B8KzRe which can convert USB audio to SPDIF Coax or Toslink as well as I2S. It takes the USB out of your PC/MAC and gets it into the DAC very cleanly and accurately. I use on on DACs that have no USB and it works very well. That could be an inexpensive option for you. Let me know what you think. Thx.
Regarding the Amanero USB on the J3. Can that be used as an input from, say, the Eversolo DMP-A6's USB out to use the DAC from the J3? Assuming the USB input would give the best performance over the optical and coax.
Yes. That is a great use case example. Let me know how it goes.
First time commenting on your videos. Sorry for the length.
I value your work and have learned a lot.
I respect your opinion...that said. I am stuck between selecting the Geshilli J2s or the Pecan Pi + (without the streamer). I am very happy with my system other than the DAC.
I have a hard time reasoning that all DACs can service all music well.
I primarily listen to instrumental music...mainly jazz (all areas other than free jazz) and classical music (with the exception of period instruments compositions).
Soul (pre 80s) and progressive rock also pepper my listening.
I am a low brass specialist. I perform mainly on slide trombone and euphonium. I also have perfect pitch.
I have to live with selection for at least five years. So please help. I want an American made unit that serves the music. Which of those two would you purchase considering the details shared?
Thank you for your time!
When it came time for me to choose I bought the J2S. I think it sounds better that the Pecan Pi. Don't get me wrong the Pecan Pi is very good. The J2S is a bit smoother and because you can change the op-amps you can change the sound. It is very good with the stock TI OPA1656 op-amps but I also have the Sparkos 3602 (on the RCA outs) which adds a bit more drive and impact in the bass and mid-bass region. Not too much just better speed. Plus for me the ability to a USB input was key for use. With the Pecan Pi you have to use a SPDIF to USB convertor which, I don't trust to sound the best. I have one and I think it has a negative impact on the soundstage and transients. BTW, I have a Geshelli Dayzee showing up today which should be interesting. If it is as good as reported, it could be potentially expensive for me. Lol. Let me know what you decide.
Great video! If I go for RCA in the 2590 configuration, feeding with a digital transport, what would I loose if I buy the J2 instead of the J3?
Jan, The differences between the J2S & J3 Pro are minor, The J3 Pro has an improved power supply primarily for driving 3 of the 2590s. Sonically they are almost indistinguishable. I ran the J2S with the 2590 in single ended (RCA) and it was very, very good. Good enough that I am purchasing one for myself as a second reference DAC. I hope this helps. Thank you so much for watching and commenting.
This review was on point. I was lucky enough to get my j3 Pro w Sparkos 2590 last week. Waiting on my Wiim Ultra but using a chromecast audio for now. This replaced my modi3. I tried a Wiim Pro Plus (internal dac): Sound was 2/10, Wiim Pro Plus with the modi 3: Sound was 6/10. returned pro plus since I am hoping the Wiim ultra has a better digital out stage. Chromecast Audio with Modi3 sound 5/10. Chromecast Audio with Geshelli j3pro: Sound 8/10.
That's terrific. I hope you find it perfect. My best combo was with the Cambridge MXN10. But it should be for the money. Thanks for watching & sharing.
@@OldGuyHifi appreciate that information! I've been eyeing the MXN10, based on your comment, I decided to purchase that also. I'll compare both and go from there.
@@OldGuyHifi so my MXN10 came in overnight so I got a chance to try it and was surprised that I wasn't crazy about the sound. Apparently I've gotten use to listening to my music heavily equalized. While the sound was good, the inability of the MXN10 to equalize kind of killed it for me. Hate to admit it but the Wiim pro plus sounded better to my ears because it allowed for EQ.
@@azwazeer5051 No worries. You have to enjoy what you hear and how you do that is a completely individual pursuit. As long as you like the sound it doesn't matter what gear you use. Thanks for letting me know. Enjoy!
What or how did you modify the Schitt Bifrost? OG or 2/64? BTW, ESS chips can run in voltage or current mode from what I've read. LIKED and SUBSCRIBED. Thank you for a great review. Keep up the great work.
My Bifrost started life as an OG AKM chip unit. I had a service issue with it and as it was early on in the multi-bit era for them they modified it and asked me to test it. It has a non-standard linear power supply, Unison USB and an Analog Devices prototype 24 bit chip. It also has Elna Aluminum foil caps through out.
Only the very latest ESS chip are current based.
@@OldGuyHifi Wow, thanks for the reply.
Great video. Thx.
Thank you. I noticed you are the artist formerly known as S. Daniel. I am honored.
I'll watch this again later. Basically another rave review for Gesheli and from what in understanding so far if you are running strictly vintage therefore via RCA then you may as well get the J2 because you only need 1 sparcos OP amp.
Tyler, Yes. Exactly. That would be the perfect. Thx. for watching twice? Seriously Thank you.
I like the Bifrost better than the J2S even though I have the ss3602 and AKM4490 upgrades with the default smps. When i used a linear power supply, then i thought the Geshelli matched the Bifrost.
One other note. Did you use the Sparkos Pro Dual SS2590 in the J2S single ended? I think in the video, you said yes, but just making sure.
They are both quite good. I have a couple of linear PS on the way. I may do a video on that very subject. Thx for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi thanks for the video
Using the same op amps, what is the sound quality difference between the J2S and J3? Is the J3 worth the upgrade? I don't care about the functionality since I'm used to the J2S.
@@thepracticalaudiophile They are near as makes no difference the same. I honestly heard no difference between the two. That's why I still have my J2S. Thx.
@@thepracticalaudiophile
Interesting decision?
I have the J2S but did not specify the 4499 chip. Why should I have $170 increase in price.
Then I realize that a J3 is way more costly BUT allows the 4499 chip standard and upgrades up to Sparkos 2590, Burson v7's and NOW STACCATO...I'm calling Rachel at Geshelli for a Black Stealth Aluminum case for my next DAC.
I'll use the J2S with an Archel headphones amp for my Focal headphones.
Thank you for the insight into these DAC’s. You are very knowledgeable. This is my first experience of these 2 models and this company. I have a chord Qutest and was wondering how they would stack up against its sound. I do like the Chord and have it hooked up by bnc to Allo Digi 1 signature. Into a Cambridge audio cx81 and kef ls50 meta. Are these an upgrade in sound quality, or just a sideways step to a different sound. Thank you and appreciate your efforts.
My honest guess is it would be a sideways move. In all honesty it has been a while since I listened to Chord products. I may be getting Qutest to review but not sure when. I am a big fan of Cambridge so you have a great amp. I have not heard the Allo Digi 1 but they enjoy a good reputation. I hope I have helped to answer you query. thanks for watching and asking a great question.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for taking the time out to answer. I would send you my Qutest , but l am in Scotland. However please do try and get hold of one. And give me you valuable insight.
I like my Dac Ed but you know what it is like. We are always looking for improvement, no matter how incremental. And if they come at a cheaper price ( I spend more on hifi than l can afford 😂)
Even better. Much appreciated.
@@johnlynchpersonaltraining9918 It is a sickness we all share. I love Scotland. I played a few amateur golf events there in my youth, Troon, Muirfield and the Royal & Ancient. My wife and I would love to rent a car and do the 500. Beautiful country. You are lucky. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi
Well, If you ever choose to do it.
Please let me know .
I live in Gourock , relatively near Troon.
So a competitive golfer too?
Your talent is boundless. 😊
Thank you for everything.
@@johnlynchpersonaltraining9918 I will if we do. We can have a dram and talk all night.
Hi Ed. New to the HiFi world and just found your channel. Thanks for the great review/breakdown of the J3. Quick question. I have not pulled the trigger on a DAC as of yet. I will likely go with the J3 now as compared to J2S with AK4499 its seemingly only $100 more. I may not update the Opamps right off the bat; however I wondering between the Sparkos vs Burson V7 Vivid. I my starter pair of speakers are the Heco Aurora 300s which I understand to sound a bit on the warm side due to material used on woofer and tweeter. I prefer a bit more revealing/detailed sounding music....with that would your recommend the SParkos or Burson vivid? Sorry so long winded... Good luck with your channel!
Chris, Welcome to this crazy hobby. The more the merrier! Honestly, I would stick with the stock TI OPA1656 op-amps to begin with. They have great detail and will add a bit of midrange to a warm system. You may find you don't need to change them. I ran the J3 with the stock op-amps on the balanced side, for several days of listening and found that to be very good. Seriously good. The magic in the J2S/J3 Pro is that AK4499EXEQ-AK4191EQ chip set and how Geno designed it. Swapping op-amps is more of a tweak and has a subtle sonic effect. As a new person to the hobby, you should listen to your standard gear configuration for months and months, maybe even for years so that you get used to the sound. You want it to be kind "second nature" so that when you do make a small change i.e., op-amp swapping, you can hear that change. Also only make one change at a time, slowly. Again so you will be able to tease out the differences. Often times, I find that, while there are differences, it still all sounds great. As some famous old guy in history said "Know thy self" I would consul that you should "Know thy system first" before making any changes. I hope that helps you. Sorry for being long winded. Thank you so much for you question and view. I hope you subscribed!
@@OldGuyHifi Thanks for all the great info/guidance Ed! Much appreciated! I will follow your advice and order the J3 in its base configuration. Have a good one!
Excellent review! Need to watch more of your videos right away.
This j3 fully loaded and with a wooden case would be around 1.1k $ here in Germany. A Denafrips Ares (now 15th) would be around 1.3k $. May you share your thoughts on which one you would choose and why?
Or should I look into other devices in that price range searching for a non dry and metallic/ringy sounding dac?
Edit: Bifrost is around 1.1 k $.
They are very different DACs. It has been a long time since I listened to a Dennefrips unit and it was the OG Aries unit. Ladder DACs have a great sound but aren't perfect, but then what is? My fuzzy recollection was that it was very smooth and threw a big sound stage. I thought it was very good. I will be getting a Pontus in for review shortly so I will get a refresher. Just to be honest with you, I am considering purchasing a J2S with the Sparkos 3602s as an extra reference DAC in the system. I think that this new AKM AK4499EXEQ+AK4191EQ hybrid chipset is remarkable. I find its sound to be between Multibit R2R and Delta-Sigma. It is very clean but without the Delta-Sigma glare and has a more neutral sound than Multibit and Ladder DACs. Great response and resolution with a huge sound stage. The J2S and the J3 Pro are basically the same units with a few mods to accommodate the space big Sparkos 2509 need. I found them to be so close that as near as makes no difference the same. I know that probably doesn't help but it is the best I can do to be accurate. Thank you so much for the great question and your view.
@@OldGuyHifi No man that's perfect. I'd rather you not stating things just to give _some_ answer and steer me in one direction. Thank you for your time, that helps me to narrow down my choice.
@@OldGuyHifi I just found the "Singxer SDA-6 PRO2" which seems to use the 4499/4191 combination too. Looks like an interesting product.
@@Nearest_Neighbor I have seen that piece. Never heard of the brand which would cause me to hesitate. If I remember correctly you are in the EU (Germany?) and that might get expensive with shipping, import duties and taxes. There are some good deals to be had out of Asia but, beware as there is zero product support or service from these manufacturers. The seller may support it but you send it back at your own cost and risk. I have had several viewers/friends buy this way and get burned. Just a "word to the wise." Thank you for your return visit to the channel.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for your heads up! I've heard a lot of good things about Singxers DACs and headphone amps. About this particular one I only found one review so far. You're right, I'm in Germany. So unfortunately most things will cost me quite a bit of shipping and duties. Other than SMSL for instance since they're so wide spread. But there are distributiors in europe which already handled the importing etc. so it would be only the bumped up prices but not the hassle with all that. And one might hope that they provide some service after purchasing the item. But as you can clearly see my search hasn't ended quite yet. :)
I always enjoy your videos Ed and I trust your opinion. I'm a little short on funds right now because I'm buying a new house at the ripe old age of 67 (STUPID I know) and I'm probably going to get a base J2. There are 3 DAC chip choices and I don't know which to chose. I have good hearing for my age. I like detail and I don't mind a little extra "sizzle" on the top end. Do you have an opinion on which chip might be right for me? Thanks for your consideration!
Mike, I am so sorry for the delay in responding. For some reason TH-cam redirected this to a different folder I only just found out about. I promise I was not ignoring you. I would choose the standard J2 with the AKM 4493 chip. It is the little brother to the 4499-4191 chipset. It is part of the same AKM Velvet Sound technology in a less expensive package. It sounds very, very good. Again I am sorry for the delayed response.
@@OldGuyHifi I knew that you would never ignore any post. Things happen and your channel is growing rapidly. Great minds right? I was hoping that was the chip you would suggest. Thank you!
@@mikecampbell5856 Now that I know where the folder is I can check it daily to make sure this doesn't happen again. Yhank you for understanding.
Hi Ed, thank you so much for your review…
I’m planning to upgrade my Preamp setup (I have KEF Reference 203 + Qinchao 9115D sub & Opera Consonance A18P amp), as I still use my old Marantz AV preamp and stream via Airplay 😂. I know: worst source possible…
I’m considering the following setup:
Arylic S50 Pro+ to stream Tidal (digital output to J3)
Geshelli J3 Pro with SS2590 for XLR Outputs
Musical Paradise MP-701 tube preamp with upgraded tubes (XLR input from J3, XLR Out to amp, RCA out to sub)
Feature wise, an Eversolo A8 is comparable and also similar price… Alternatively I could get a used Musical Fidelity M6s DAC for 450$ as a DAC preamp…
Any feedback appreciated 🙏🙏🙏
Alexander, Great question. I have not heard the DMP-A6. It uses the same AKM4499 chipset. I found the Eversolo software to be confusing and not particularly intuitive. You can't role the op-amps in the Eversolo that said it is a beautifully built and engineered. I have not had the opportunity to interact with the Arylic S50 Pro+ so I can render no opinion. I have heard some less than flattering comments about it. For about the same money the WiiM Pro is what I would recommend. I had one of those and fore the money it is very good. I don't know the Musical Paradise but I do know the MS M6s and that is a very good bit of kit and at $450, wow!. Super well built and lovely sounding. I like the sound of the Burr-Brown DACs it uses so that could be the best choice. Good news is if you wanted to you could always add an outboard DAC in the future. I would still recommend the WiiM streamer. It sounds good, has a very good app and, if you wished to, it also has a room correction scheme. Let me know what you decide. Thanks for watching.
I looked at Geshelli Labs carefully due to superior DAC sound quality. Just specs out a J3 fully loaded and price cranks up to $876 before tax and shipping. I might suggest HifiMan Serenade R2R DAC/amp combo could compete with it while also offering a great amp at $899. Hard to choose J3 when Serenade offers tons more value along with R2R sound?
I am sure the Hifiman unit is very good. I have no experience with their products so I can't comment. Thanks so much for sharing that info. Thanks for viewing & commenting.
Yeah but what's the FUN in that?
If you are not going balanced, you just saved $200.
Plus...Do you truly believe hifiman r2r sounds better than Geshelli?
I think not.
Just got your channel and subscribed.
I'm buying the J2 socketed this Wednesday. I wanted to confirm that the 2590 fits in the single end of a metal case?
Please inform.
Yes. It does. No worries. There is a quick peak of it in my introductory video on the J3. Thanks for asking and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
thank you for the detailed review , is the j3 a worthy upgrade from the j2s ? much appreciated.
Yeghig, It depends on your use case. If you are only going to do single ended and maybe just one external device, i.e., a streamer then the J2S is perfect. You only have one op-amp to change out. If you you were going to do balanced out and were considering going all out, then the J3 Pro with the big Sparkos 2590s rock! At their core the two units are virtually identical in performance so, go with what your budget can handle. Thanks so much for watching and I hope I was able to answer your question.
@@OldGuyHifi Yes you did and I can't thank you enough for taking the time to do so. hope to see more videos soon. take care.
Ed, the Geshelli j3 has 3 op amps. Would it be good to replace all three and not just the two you reviewed? Thanks!
Great question. If you are only going to run it with RCA (single ended) then you only need to replace one op-amp. I was running balanced (XLR) so I had to replace those two. How are you thinking of using it? Thx for the question and the view.
I heard their DACs and Headphone Amps at shows and it sounded great , I just can't get past the look .
Wish they had some modern , thick brushed aluminum look and full size width components for DACs above 400 dollars .
I get it. The look is not for everyone. They are a small family business doing the best they can designwise. The stuff sounds amazing though and that too me is the most important thing. Thank you for the view and comment.
@@OldGuyHifi I understand that part , it almost look like DIY build product and when asking prices go higher and higher now it just does not fit as it did on 249usd DAC
You have a point.
@@OldGuyHifi And than they have to compete with ChFi brands that also look much much better these days and cost less , sound pretty decent or even very good so Geshelli will have to invest in a nice chassis ....
Great review Ed! I have j2 with 3602 sparkos. Is the upgrade from 3602 to 2590 really audibly worth it in your opinion? Also, you mentioned it but do you have a link where theres more info on getting those 2590s into the xlr portion of the j2? Thx again!
I felt there was a enough of an improvement to warrant an upgrade. I don't have any info other than anecdotal conversation. You could reach out to Andrew Sparkos and see what he thinks. He makes all of those gizmos to begin with. Sparko@SparkosLabs.com
The 2590 is everything Andrew from Sparkos wanted their discrete opamp to have, but they couldn’t fit it all on the smaller ss3602 opamp (right from Sparkos website). I have both and the Pro opamp is 4 times the size of the ss3602. In my experience the change felt like I was transported into a studio setting with a simple opamp swap (ss3602 to 2590). I hear everything, and nothing’s missing. I have 3 unused ss3602’s now 😅.
I didn’t do this with Geshelli, haven’t gotten a chance yet. Have to get over their prototype look first 🤷♂️. I did this on my aune Magic DAC XVIII w/ their LPS upgrade, sounds great!
If you could fit it, you’ll hear it! 😉
Great input and insight. Thanks Ivan.
@@HiFiModsgreat way to describe it. Thx!
Great review. How is the the J3 Pro better than J2S. Specially when just using single coax input with no need for input switching buttons. Also which op-amp has the most expansive and deep sound. I know all subjective. Thanks. Great review.
And subscribed.
Markus, For all intents & purposes they are identical sonically. The J3 has a bit of a bigger power supply as the large Sparkos require more power and the board was reconfigured to accommodate those large 2590 op-amps. I had the J2S and the J3 side by side and I bought the J2S. The op=amps are very subjective. My advice is to listen to the unit with the stock TI op-amps for a few months and then if you feel the need try rolling them I would start with the Sparkos 3602 and go from there. BTW, If you buy the op-amps from Sparkos directly they offer a 15% discount. I hope that helps L et me know what you decide to do. Great question. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi Ok thank you very much. What made the decision to keep J2 over J3? I am interested in trying the Sparkos 2590s (is it) which only fit the J3, or some mod that I read about, which I am not keen on ;)
Thank you again!
Markus, Don't tell anyone bit the 2590 fits in the J2S on the single ended side. I actually showed that in the video. I have both and I don't hear that significant a difference between the 3602 and the 2590. I have the 3602s in my unit and am very happy with the sound. I am actually sending the 2590s back (review samples) and have really no interest in using them. Try the stock TI op-amps for awhile and see what you think. Keep me posted. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi awesome thanks for the answers. Like you I prefer R2R over chip based but something magical (supposedly going by reviews) seems to happen with these units.
Thank you.
Great video! If you were going to order a J3 how would you spec it out? What op-amps would you run?
Honestly, I would spec it out as a standard unit with the stock TI op-amps and see what you think. Andrew at Sparkos always has a deal running son if you want to upgrade it is a bit less costly from him then it is from Geshelli. Secret Tip. Skip the USB unless you really need it. That will save $50.00. Also I can't help you with case options because that is a matter of personal taste. For me, because my gear sits in rack behind a glass door, I would just do the standard Aluminum case. Although, after watching Rachel's latest video on the custom carved cases, (th-cam.com/video/7mWW4k8N7Ik/w-d-xo.htmlsi=zmEj50KD0S6PRWkJ) it makes that a compelling option if I was able to show the DAC off. I hope this helps. Let me know what you decide. thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you. At this point I'm looking for something to use with my MXN10 and my Cambridge CD player so I can skip the USB... and the custom cases do look pretty slick!
I used the J2S (with the 3602 on single ended) extensively with the MXN10 as a source for almost all my recent vintage reviews and the review of the Schiit Freya and Orchard Audio amp. That combo is magic. Highly recommended.
@@OldGuyHifi running optical or coax out of the MXN10 to the J2??
I used both. I am not sure there is a big difference between the two. I use Audioquest Pearl optical and Mogami coax and I find it difficult to hear any meaningful differences. Sometimes I think I do and others... Thanks for asking.
Apologies if I missed this - does the standard J2 (Non socketed) share the AK4499EXEQ + AK4191EQ hybrid DAC implementation of the J3 and Dayzee?
No. The standard J2 is not. Good news is that you can get it with the very good AKM4493 chip. The 4493 is one of the best chips or there period. It sounds amazing. It is part of the same Velvet Sound Veritas family as the 4499. The J2 with that chip @$250.00 is in my opinion an absolute best buy. I can't think of a "Fun-Fi" DAC that comes close. Let me know what you decide. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you for the quick and thorough response! I actually have an AKM4493 J2, I just did not know if it is dual chip. I really love the J2 dac and prefer the form factor and aesthetic over the J3. I need another dac for a second system, just ordered the Fiio R2R. Figured if I don't like it I'll be able to easily sell it for little to no loss. Then the question is buy another Geshselli or a try a Denafrips Enyo 15th in silver.
Love your channel, a real breath of fresh air in the youtube audio review space. Keep up the fantastic work!
@@nesutoneko Let me know what you think of that K11 R2R and ultimately what you decide to do. Thanks for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi Listening to the K11 R2R now. A/B comparison with my Schiit Gungnir MB is a challenge - have to switch out dacs then line level - but it sounds at least as good. My subjective feeling is the Fiio sounds better. I was not expecting this, just wanted a dac with a much smaller footprint and did not audibly click (the Schiit makes a very loud click whenever the the datastream is interrupted - it''s quite annoying). Time to sell the Gungnir.
Hi Ed, geshelli j3 with stock op amps vs fiio k9 AKM. What are your thoughts.
They are different enough that, that is a tough question. If you don't need the headphone amp/preamp functions get the Geshelli.
Very nice review, thank you. I ❤ learning more about how this tech works from your channel vs just hearing what it sounds like by others. 👏
Usually it’s important to know if there’s a difference between diff. inputs used SPDIF vs USB and if a stock or what kind of power supply was used in the unit.
If you could please verify I understand this correctly - when using SPDIF inputs, the internal clock oscillators of the DAC aren’t used compared to using USB/IIS where the DAC’s internal clock oscillators are used. Should the sound be better via USB?
That’s what I’ve come to hear in my system - USB sounds better as an input on my ESS DAC also with a Dual Ch Pro opamp from Sparkos from the same source that has multiple outputs SPDIF & USB, like a PC or a streamer. Thank you!
Ivan you are correct. On any SPDIF input the DACs clock must chase the source's (transmitter) clock. USB is asynchronous so the receiver sets the clock timing not the transmitter. I did a video on this but, I think you saw it. So, yes USB is always the best most common connection for us to use. Great question/comment. Thank you so much.
@@OldGuyHifi Thank you, I did watch that video, just still processing it in my head.. 🙃👌
Let me know if you have any questions. oldguyhifi@gmail.com
Hi Ed! I was wondering if you could give me some kind of quantitative idea of how much better (in your subjective opinion) the new towering Sparkos is vs the older Sparkos vs the Burson V?
Micheal, I hope you well my friend. In all honesty, with the J2S on single ended it was an improvement but just. The 3602 vs the Vivid was near as makes no difference a tie. Each had a slightly different sonic signature. The Sparkos a bit more detailed and the Burson a bit warmer. I liked them both. The big 2590 on single ended was very good, however I struggled to hear a big difference. If I was doing only single ended I would probably go for the Vivid and save the money. Now. On balanced XLR in the J3 compared to the stock TIs (I didn't have enough of the Vivid or the 3602 to run them balanced) it was a significant improvement for sure. As I said in the review the music sounded more confident, with better drive and sense of "passing power." Does that make sense? I felt like it would deliver any peak that the music threw at it without any compression. I felt like it laughed those off as if to say "is that all you've got?" I hope that I don't sound like some goof but, that's the feelings I had about it. Very very good. Thanks for asking. Take care.
@@OldGuyHifi thank you so much for that detailed response! That was exactly what I was hoping for
Anytime my friend. Are you still using that Loki?
@@OldGuyHifi I recently moved from Nashville to New Hampshire, and will be moving again in New Hampshire in a few months, so sadly it is currently in a box (with a lot of my other gear). But when I land in my long term home, I plan to break out all the audio goodies.
@@michealboudreaux Good luck with all the moving hassle. You will be close to Neil now.
I have the J2 and like it a lot. My only issue is the output (even in hi mode) seems too low. Did you have this issue? It is not able to drive some of my amps to clipping.
I have not had any issues with that. What preamp/amp are you plugging it into? Let me know.
@@OldGuyHifi I am using a WiiM Ultra going to the DAC via toslink cable and then from the DAC to the amp via unbalanced RCA cables to the amp. The WiiM is acting as both the streamer and the pre-amp. One of my amps can use balanced XLR cables, so I will try them and see if it makes a difference. If I do not use the deck, and just go straight from the ween to the amp via RCA cables, I get plenty of volume. The volume on the we goose from 0 to 100, and without the DAC I am reaching the speaker and amp limits at around 90. However, when I use the DAC, I can turn the volume all the way to 100 without any distortion or clipping, but with also not hitting the max volume the speakers or amp or capable of.
So, unless the DAC had a volume control or an output level setting, which most won't on SPDIF connections, the issue lies with the WiiM Ultra and maybe an input level control. I will check in the WiiM software to see. What brand & model DAC are you using?
Hi,
Do you consider the tonality Neutral/ Natural with the 3602 and the 2590 Opamps?
Thank you 🙏
Ronen, In all honesty the differences are subtle. If you are streaming from a phone, then I would consider saving the $ and going with the 3602s. That said, try the stock op-amps for about 6 months. They are very good. Unless you understand how the stock configuration sounds, you can't have any idea if the Sparkos are better. Take your time. There is no rush. Get a baseline before you make changes. Great question. Thanks.
@@OldGuyHifi I will rip my CDs to WAV files and play them.
Eventually, on paper, digital data moving from my phone to the DAC, likewise from a quality streamer, so there's not suppose to be a different in the sound quality, if I understand correctly.
Thank you again
what would be the value proposition/business case for having both SE and XLR use best chips offered right off the bat?
Am thinking of keeping stock chips for SE since I intend to connect DAC to main amp via VLR and SE, in parallel, to active subs ( L/R).
Your thinking is good. My sage (lol) advice is to get it with the stock TI OPA1656s and listen to it for a few months. Then roll the op-amps. The J3 Pro sounds really good right out of the box. (Pro tip) When you want to upgrade the op-amps to Sparkos, buy them from Sparkos. They always offer a 15% off on your purchase from their online store. I currently have a Dayzee in right now and I am running it balanced and Single ended with the stock TI op-amps and holy sh*t does it sound amazing. Thanks for asking and watching.
@@OldGuyHifi I hope I am strong enough to resist Dayzee's lure. ;)
Thanks for the tip on the chips
@@Exgol2005 The J2S AKM4499 & the J3Pro & the Dayzee all share the same sonic signature. The J2S & J3 are as near as makes no difference identical sonically. The Dayzee has better imagining and sound stage. Maybe a touch more treble clarity. You can't go wrong with any of them.
@@Exgol2005
Have you thought about buying 8 op amps when you decide to roll?
Mucho dinero senor! But maybe you are a baller.
@@carloslong839 😁🙏🙏🙏->💰😁
I question whether the Dayzee is a better DAC than the J3 Pro DAC. The main difference as far as I can tell between the two is that the Dayzee has a lot more inputs. The J3 has one set of XLR and one set of RCA inputs. The Dayzee has two sets of XLR and 4 sets of RCA inputs. If you don’t need all the additional inputs, the J3 should be just fine.
Fair point. The Dayzee is significantly different as it uses dual AKM4499 chips in a fully balanced circuit design. I own a J2S and have a Dayzee in for review. There is a difference for sure especially on balanced outputs. I will say you can't go wrong with the J3Pro. The J3Pro & my J2S AKM4499 to my ear, are as near as makes no difference the same. I would suggest buying the one you want with the stock op-amps and listening to it for a few months and then if you feel the need to upgrade just do one output at a time, i.e., if you only use RCA then only roll that op-amp. I hope that answers your query. Thanks so much for tuning in.
@@OldGuyHifi All I’m saying is that the Dayzee has significantly more inputs and outputs than the J3. If you don’t need those additional inputs/outputs, it becomes harder to justify spending the money on the Dayzee as both the J3 and Dayzee can be fitted with the same op amps. If the additional inputs/outputs are not needed, you are paying quite the premium for a dual mono design.
I don't disagree. That's why I bought a J2S and some op-amps. Thx.
Dude! Today I swapped out the TI 1656 to Burson v7 vivid and it was transformative.
That Dayzee DAC has 8 op amps and I wager that it sounds better than ANYTHING within 3 times the price.
PLUS...You can swapp out the op amps.
This morning I swapped and upgraded to Burson op amps and my gear is singing.
Geshelli is the shit and you all better recognize.
With Love😮
@@carloslong839 Here is my strong suspicion. Let’s take the 3 DACs: J2S, J3, and Dayzee. My guess is that the change in op amps is much more noticeable than the hardware differences between these DACs. I don’t doubt that the J3 and the Dayzee have improvements over the J2S, I just question how audible those differences are.
Hi,
Did you experience any digital interference and sound quality deterioration while using the USB connection?
Thank you
Yes. Until I got the correct Amanero USB driver. You should run the DAC in ASIO mode not in WASAPI mode. What software are you using? Let me know. Thx.
@@OldGuyHifi I intend to connect it to a DAP or a Smartphone and play local lossless files (WAV / FLAC) using the "USB Audio Player PRO" App for example?
Thank you
@ronenbuium7699 I have not tried that. I do use USB Audio Pro also put typically run it into a Helm Bolt dongle DAC. Give me a day or two and I will try it out. Thx.
An Australian hifi reviewer did a comparison of the Burson V7 Vivid & V7 Classic. He said that the V7 Classic was a much warmer sound & the V7 Vivid was a much more transparent sound to him. I just ordered a J3 today in any case. I requested V7 Classic for the XLR & V7 Vivid for the RCA. Now my order is just shy of $800 for the J3 with an aluminum case. I have a J2/AKM & J2/ESS that were $250 each. I don't need or want USB. I've got a Toppig E50. I was thinking about ordering a VMV Rohm DAC or Gustard or Musician R2R DAC but I don't want to fund communism if I don't have to. Your prices are now way off though. You even have a wood case J3. Again as of July 11 2024, $787.98 with an aluminum case is what I just gave Geshelli for a J3.
I understand. The units I had did not have any Op-amp upgrades. So I think they are still mostly correct. I only had a single V7 Vivid so I can't comment on Lachlan's findings but, he knows what he is doing. The Rohm DAC us of interest to me as well. Maybe I can get the SMSL D300. Who knows. I wish you luck with the new units. Thank you for watching and commenting. I do appreciate it.
@OldGuyHifi Copy that. I thought they had upgraded opamps & you were just swapping them out. Now it makes sense. I just found your channel. I subscribed. This was the first thing I watched.
Adam, Thanks so much. Andrew Sparkos sent me the 2590s as review items and Sherri Geshelli sent me the Burson and I bought the 3602s. So, with only those I had to move forward with the review. I did like the Burson and would love to have heard both Vivid models on all the outputs. Maybe.
@@OldGuyHifi The Classic & Vivid V7 are the same price but are a somewhat different sound from what I understand. We will see. I'll have each I'm my J3 when it gets here.
I hope you love it. Best wishes.
Which one do you prefer: the J3 with SS2590 or the Schiit Bifrost 2/64?
I don't have a Bifrost 2/64. Mine is a Frankenstein. It is heavily modified. The J2S/J3Pro are Delta-Sigma chip based, and my Bifrost is something else, so the two are not comparable to each other. I like them both, I own them both for different reasons. Thx for asking.
What file resolutions do the Geshelli dacs play? Thanks@
All the DACs will do 32bit 384kHz & DSD 512 on USB and 24biut 216kHz & no DSD on SPDIF.
I have Jot2. I was going to get a bifrost or J2/J3. What would you suggest with the Jot2? Thanks!
I haven't heard a new Bifrost. Mine is a Frankenstein modified unit. I own a J2S AK4499EXEQ and love it. They are different. I am not sure I can give you a worth while answer. Sorry. Thanks for asking though.
Hello, Old Hi-Fi Guy I recently viewed a video you did on the Harman/Kardon AVR-7000. I have a chance to purchase a AVR-7200 do you consider this model as good as the AVR-7000. Thank You for your videos and your time.
It is a good unit. It is also a beast. I hope you get a good deal. Thx.
Hey Ed how would you compare the j3 with 2590’s with say the denafrips?
Alex, It has been a long time since I listened to a Dennefrips unit and it was the OG Aries unit. Ladder DACs have a great sound but aren't perfect, but then what is? My fuzzy recollection was that it was smooth and threw a big sound stage. I thought it was very good. I will be getting a Pontus in for review shortly so I will get a refresher. Just to be honest with you, I am consider purchasing a J2S with the 3602s as an extra reference DAC in the system. That kind of hit the sweet spot in performance for me. I kind of like the idea of supporting a family business.
@@OldGuyHifi wow funny you say that. I was thinking of placing my j2 with 3602’s into a headphone stack for my bedroom (already have a jutenheim 2) and i was looking to get a new dac for my reference system is why i ask.
Alex, See if you can get a demo on the Dennefrips or at least have the option to return it. Everything is a bit up in the air since Vinshine Audio is longer selling Dennefrips. Let me know what you decide. Thx.