Making Circuit Boards Using a Laser Printer - Ec-Projects
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2017
- In this video I show how I make good quality PCBs at home using toner transfer.
Chemicals used: HCl (30%), H2O2 (10%).
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Your video is great!!! You speak slowly and clear! A wonderful demostration!!! Thank you, Ed
I got two types of photo paper and never could get it to work properly. I heard somewhere that kitchen parchment paper worked though. Parchment paper is also way cheaper than photo paper. Just cut it to A4 or whatever size you want and then print onto it. Then proceed as normal. Hold the printed paper flat. The toner is barely holding onto it, and will flake off if you aren't gentle. Even tape won't stick to it well, so you have to take care when ironing so that it doesn't move. The parchment comes off of a roll, so it's curled. The orientation that I use when putting it in the printer matters. One way will always jam. The other will usually work. So if photo paper doesn't work for you, try that. It has its problems, but it has advantages too.
I must say one the best tutorials for homeade PCBs. Thanks for being thorough!
Excellent tutorial, so very thoroughly and well explained. Thank you for your great effort. I learnt quite a bit on this technique.
Dude you make awesome videos, super useful. I love the fact that you always take your time and show _everything_, even stuff that should be obvious (because things are often not as obvious as they should be).
Really can't wait to get version 3 of my 3D printer going so I can make some more cool machines (like a laser cutter!) :D
Happy to support you on patreon!
you created the best pcb I've ever seen ...
Thank you for advice, I have been just cleaning my boards with acetone, after sanding, and have had that problem. Also I use Muriatic acid, and peroxide, I have a 2 gal glass container with a lid, and have been using the same batch for about 5 years now, I put an aquarium aerator into it while etching, still working great, It's housed in a wooden box for protection, Double sides boards take about 30 min to etch, and I have don a few hundred boards with this same batch, saves the environment. Again an excellent video, Thank you..
Awesome video and clear instructions. A good instructional video on TH-cam most beneficial for people doing DIY!!!
Thanks for the soap and water tip. Good video update, thanks.
Prefer ferric chloride myself, feels a little less harsh than using acids.
Nice explanation, i'm gone use it
Very nice PCB.
I don't know if you can still buy them but we used to clean our boards with an ink eraser ( I think the rubber has some fine hard abrasive embedded within it) which worked really well. A trick to help etching was to put a little tab of sellotape on the back of the pcb (obviously for single sided!) and just float it on top of the etchant, this worked well for ferric chloride which seemed to have a good surface tension, don't know about your broth. Finally to counter failures due to undercutting of the etchant, unless you have to, use a good width of track wherever possible. Good luck and I hope this helps!
Nice video. One of the easiest to follow. I also use acid and peroxide. Much faster and less messy than Ferric Chloride. You just need to be a little more careful handling it.
I have seen people use liquid tin on the boards to stop the oxidation of the tracks.
Nice work.
Great video.
Thanks :)
I've used the same set of carbide drills for years and for many, many boards with my hand held Proxxon without snapping a single one. It is possible with a steady hand. The holes are much cleaner and with less or no burrs.
Finding the right photo paper can be a pain as some use a kind of plastic or other non-soluble stuff instead of paper as backing. My current favorite is Canon super high gloss Photo Paper Pro and Photo Paper Pro II. I usually check bargin bins in the shops and recently snagged 50 sheets of 10x15 cm for DKR 10/€1.35.
I've tried the dry toner transfers but my printer simply can't feed the paper in as it is too slippery.
I remove the toner right away and coat my boards using Kontakt Chemie SK10. This is a varnish that is highly solderable which also protects the copper from oxidation.
Thank you!
Perfect, thanks bro!
That brought back memories. But, I don't do meth so I never did the really high-speed sanding you were able to do.
the board quality is too good, Thanks Buddy !
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Thank you.
Gread job. I just bought myself a heat press. Just wondering how much clamping press you apply? And do you immediately open the press after 90 seconds or do you just switch off the power and let it cool down a bit first ?
very nice video!!
interested instruction video thanks 🤟
Hi really enjoyed your video,, can you tell me what drill bits your used? Thank you.
Brilliant. May I suggest you use extra fine steel wool instead of sandpaper. Also, especially if you are going to drill freehand, I suggest using a centerpunch or nail set to make a small detent where you plan to drill.
Using the method shown, there is no need for a center punch. The laser printed pattern already has the hole centers, which get etched, so they form a practical depression that works even better than a center punch, as you don't get the raised rim around the depression that a center punch causes.
Excellent presentation. What would you advise for layout software for an hobbyist?
Amazing
Very good work!
What type and model of printer do you use?
Thanks for the answer.
Hello EcProjects, I have never done etching, so i would like to know if if would be cheaper to etch bread broad style pcb compared with stand ebay breadboards (getting a lot of fakes breadboard that are crappy. Just want to see what you think. great vid very helpful,
P.S what pcb software are you using. Thanks in advance
Which paper do you use? What is the temperature for your iron?
You should get a little piece of styrofoam insulation to drill on. I have a mini drill press that I drill my PCBs out on, and I put them on a piece of foam. I don't even use carbide bits in my press, because they're so brittle. I do sharpen HSS bits I use in fiberglass though. With those tiny bits I sharpen them like they're pencils on a grinding wheel. But I get it to work. Drilling boards with a handheld rotary tool is for the birds. Although I sometimes have to resort to it myself, if I need a hole in a populated board. But get a piece of foam to drill on. I like the house insulation myself.
WOW 7 Months and no more vids Where are you EC Projects miss your video's !!!!
شكرا عمل رائع و مفيد 🇩🇿 ♥♥♥😍😍😍🤩🤩🤩💝💝💝🌹🌹🌹💎💎💎 Thanks for a wonderful and useful business thank you
Hey bro!
Can you please tell which kind of paper and printer ink is used ..??
Because i tried alot on glossy paper and photo paper with an Epson laser jet printer. When i iron it on Copper board, the board and the paper both burn out but the paper does not transfer its ink.
Can you help me please ....
would you mind sharing more info about the circuit that you built the board for/the schematic and pcb layout? thanks...
good work , i dowet met hands
Hi and Thank you for your video.
This is a very limitated method:
You'll be far to reach 1/100 inch with this method and even for larger tracks you may face problems.
Holes in tracks etc.
The problem is that at least even with a good well let's say adapted paper,
a part of the ink remains on the paper and all what remains on the paper is not in the PCB.
If i watch you pcb with a loop i'm sure i'll see all his defaults.
It can be sufficient for big PCB cards with traditionnal big components but nowadays
I would not recommand it for SMD chips which have many tiny pads very cloth together.
On the other hand the more electronic is small the more it often becomes obscur these days and i like
old fashion and clear electronic too.
One of better solutions is to print pcb directly with toner with the printer.
But it is a complex project consisting of the total modification of a printer which you'll not use to print on paper anymore. You'll find many tutorials on youtube searching "PCB direct [toner] printing"
I made it with an old printer E260 and the result is very good !
(You need to fuse the toner in acetone vapors afterwards. )
Except that for an obscur reason my printer can just print one good printing per day : The first, next printing are very bad because toner does not depose.It may be more a printer problem : not sure.
The other big problem is that you cannot allign the two layers for PCB double side.
Well you could may be but this needs precision methods or complex additionnal guidance systems.
But the performances are done by work.
Kind regards.
jean-yves.
why should we remove the paper from the tracks and the holes (after the first peel) ? the holes will be drilled and the traces will be cleaned after the removal of the copper from the rest pcb. am i doing something wrong?
try to heat between two iron plates, squeezed in an induction oven, and print on aluminum foil, do not remove it, and etch after heating in the pickling bath
excellent video.. thanks.
Thank you!
You can speed up the etching process significantly by adding more of the (~30%) peroxide. I don't know anything about chemistry but in my experience etching PCBs using the acid and peroxide method, it's the peroxide that's doing most of the work although without HCl, H2O2 on it's own won't work. I typically use a 1:1 acid to peroxide mix which can etch a board in 30 to 90 seconds. A warning here is this produces far more HCl fumes than the typically recommended mix ratio so this should be done outside. Also, the reaction becomes more exothermic but not violently so using the relatively dilute concentrations of H2O2 and HCl generally available to the public but if your etch resist is heat sensitive, the heat generated by the reaction may melt it. I've never had a problem with the heat being generated, I've found it actually aids the adhesion of the etch resist in the very short time it takes to etch the board
I etch fast too with these 2 products. i mix them with water and if it is a bit long it is allways more efficient than ferochloride which is very expensive.
good and nice video, but why using 2 mm water with acid ?
I can assure you that acetone does not leave any oily residue. I have actually made acetone methanol ethyl alcohol isoprofenol in my lab there it should be no oils at that point if you're buying acetone that has any kind of oiliness to it then there's something wrong with that product. If you're worried about it that much use methanol. Methanol is one of the lightest alcohols I've used it on laser optics in robotic microscopy platforms where the optics are ridiculously expensive! You can buy heat which is for a gasoline additive and is absolutely 100% pure methanol
Can you make tesla meter for the number of design wind turbines .. I need it very much and I have a lot of waiting
It's a myth that you have to clean the copper. I tried with cleaning and without cleaning. The "dirty" board always performed better. Nowadays I touch new and clean boards with my fingers to make them dirty and go black before processing. Works great. Give it a try!
i was wishing to give bunch of thumbs up, but unfortunately we can do only one !
Use plasto eraser used for pencil to clean pcb after cleaning it with liquid dishwash.
No need to use any scrubber
Never need to use abrasive paper. Please don't make scratches on copper clad.
With eraser, U will get 99.9% clean copper surface with zero scratches there by getting better toner transfer
Bottom side PCB circuit should be mirror image of left side right and the front face circuit for surface mount component should be as it is
You should try using the yellow toner transfer paper
Kan du gi et link til hvor du køber papiret? Hvor har du købt pressen?
Virkelig flot resultat :) awsome :)
I am just getting into pcb making though I have been wanting to it for some time. I was wondering though if anyone has a recommendation for a laser printer. I know to stay away from Brother printer as there is something different about the toner they use. I was think of an HP, either a M29w or M234dw or even a Lexmark C322dw and I was wondering if anyone has used one of these and do they work okay.
I’ve struggled for a long time with the glossy paper method. Someone pointed me to a dedicated type of transfer paper on eBay which will transfer dry, i.e. no water or other chemicals required. Look for “Toner Transfer A4 Sheets”. They are usually yellow. Super high quality transfers with that and cheap too.
Do you mean the stuff where you get 10 A4 sheets or something like that for 1€? I have those (bought on ebay from one of the million chinese sellers), but I never used them yet, because I fear that they will mess up my printer. E. g. if the toner really not stick at all to the paper, stays in the printer and gets on all the rubber rolers.
Did that mess up your printer?
That's right, the the whole point of the paper is that the toner does not really stick to it. You have to be careful when you handle it. For me personally it has never caused issues with the laser printer afterwards. Still printing like a champ. YMMV of course. Vinyl shelf paper also works great btw, and the toner sticks to it much stronger in case you are worried about your drums. What really messes up laser printers is getting some sort of adhesive on the rollers, like from self-adhesive paper.
There are tons of testimonials about the yellow transfer paper in the comments of this post: hackaday.com/2015/02/22/toner-transfer-and-packing-tape/
Hmm, still not sure if I should risk trying it. I have always used the photo resist method, but since I don't do it very often my results aren't very consistent. I mostly get working boards in the end and also quite good quality/resolution (e. g. traces between pins or TSOP/SOP are fine), but if something goes wrong in making the PCB it has almost always to do with the photo resist part of making the board. So if I could replace that step with something simpler it would be nice (as long as toner transfer is good enough for SMD stuff)
Where did you get that heat press from?
Your board quality looks excellent! I was wondering, have you tested or considered drilling the holes before etching? You would have good contrast and less chance to ruin smaller pads afterwards (by drilling or sanding). Well done!
Why don't you print the pcb "more black"? When you have some blank, not connected areas of toner you can speed up etching process.
I said that in the video ;) I particularly did not want a ground plane or dead copper on this pcb.
Sorry, didn't noticed :)
Legends do
Which software did you use?
What will happen if you keep the toner as a protective layer ?
What gram per square meter(gsm) of photo paper is required to transfer traces?
HSS!!
What layout software did you use?
hi sir, I printed circuit on transparency paper by LaserJet printer but it can't completely transfer what I can do?
Which paper and printer use please tell me
thnx for excellent explanation! can you please mention again the etching stuff that you use, it is a bit difficult to understand when spoken! thank you 😉
This is late but he said he's using Hydrochloric Acid (also called "Muratic Acid" it can be found in home improvement stores as concrete cleaner, just make sure it's pure without additives. I used to be a pressure washer and worked with it often. Its cheaper and easier to obtain then ferric chloride so it's my preferred method but it does release gases so you HAVE to use it in a well ventilated area so dont use it in your kitchen unless you have a vent a hood. It's also got a sour smell to it that you dont want in your home. Also it's highly corrosive except to certain plastics so be careful). And he said he mixes in Hydrogen peroxide (you could probably use the diluted 70% or 90% as long as you factor in the water content but 100% solutions are available online and sometimes in electronics stores) and he also uses a little water. As far as cleaning off the toner he and most people use acetone (nail polish remover. You can buy it in big containers at home depot type stores in the paint section and the paint section of walmart as a paint thinner just again make sure it's pure acetone. If you dont need a lot then walmart sells 100% acetone nail polish remover in small bottles for about a $1).
@@michaelinglis567 thank you very much 👍👍👍
how to print the the opposite side of PCB i.e the side where the components are placed
I use tracing paper. The tracing paper stick with my iron. It didnt stick with the copper board. Not working
How long did this specific board take?
about 30 minutes with drilling
can u use a black texter instead of toner and hand draw it? if so what kind?
Yes, you can use a waterproof permanent marker pen.
The sort of toner is very important, not all do work nicely.
Great tutorial.
Please could you tell the exact paper reference or an amazon link ?
Thanks a lot for sharing.
some traces can be more thicker
I agree. I sometimes have to make emergency PCBs for clients in the movie and TV business. After laying out the board I increase the thickness of all traces as much as I can. This makes them stronger and means that less copper is coming off the board so they etch faster and easier.
can i use ink printer for this ? canon 3010
how do you cut the copper plates, with a saw or power tools?
A saw is ok but you can also use a big shear. I use the paper trimmer that is lying around...
How would you repair damaged traces, like the one one your board, if it were more damanged?
Before etching, you can use permanent marker, nail polish or lacquer to correct damaged traces. If there are damaged traces after etching, there are conductive pens available (don't know how good they are) or you could thicken traces with solder or jumper wire (won't look too good though)...
There are even rolls of copper foil that you can glue down, and solder. Again, the repair does not look too swift though.
I use a "Sharpie" permanent marker pen of appropriate point width.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
easy to make a cnc milling? I will surely give you comfort .... we will benefit.
What software do you use to design the circuit path?
Hi :)
I have used a lot of different programs. At the time I used DipTrace.
Now I use KiCAD, but have also had good experience with Altium Circuitmaker :)
@@EcProjects thnx
brother u use acid plz use safty precaution
If you were smart would you use FeCl₃ or in your country do not you?
Which software you used to design ?
DipTrace. I think it't pretty good. They have a free limited version.
EcProjects Thanks 😊
AMD - Acetone, Methanol, DI water to clean.
Hi bro, can i use only HYDROGEN PEROXIDE without Hydrocloric acid? Anything more to use if i do not have Hydrocloric Acid?
Citric acid
10:47 I don't get why is the solution green in color, not blue?
Spray it with hairsprav :-)
I am going to build a "Rocker" :)
Show it manh
What is the name of that machine
GSM of paper ?
You shouldn't touch the copper. Fat becomes acetone oxidizing the copper
is inkjet printer will work for this method?
Danial M, I doubt that inkjet photo paper will work well. First, it is porous in order to hold the ink better, and thus you can't expect the laser toner to come off of the paper properly (if at all). Second, the laser 'print engines' are not designed to handle inkjet paper, and there might be some issues going through the fuser section (purportedly, many inkjet papers use a fine clay-like material to help hold the ink, and that could be problematic at the higher temperatures found in a laser print engine, and if that clay makes it abrasive, there might be some damage to the contacting surfaces inside the print engine, since on inkjet there is almost nothing that contacts the print side of the paper).
may kisi bhi printing shop me jaa rha hu or wha bol rha hu ki mujhe lessor printer se glossy pepper par print nikalwana hi to sab yhai bol rha hi ki lessor printer se glossy pepper print nhi nikalta hi sab dukaan me hi whi bol rha hi kya kru
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Hi, how do you dispose the chemicals after ?
Depends where you live I guess. Here you can just hand them in.
Nice, but pls can you be detailed with the chemicals
Are you alive? You are not active for a while...
An unnecessary layer of copper is easily separated with a clerical knife
Hey man any new videos coming down the line?
Not for at least 2 more months. I'm sorry.
But eventually ;)
Ill be waiting :)
EcProjects Good to hear. Hope you are well. Love your videos.
The ink tank system appears to be much better than the cartridge system th-cam.com/users/postUgkxciSwynMJ7PnUvvx11rewiu-yFBkZTl53 and a lot cheaper to run. The machine was easy to set up. A small point but I thought they'd be a USB cable included to help with the set up but there was none. I've been using it now for a few weeks and it seems like a good product and superior to my previous printers which were all troublesome HP machines.
I gave up I think my toner just doesnt do what the others does.
is everything alright man?
Do you want Pcb like jlcpcb then contect us :- 7065661837