the problem is that you didn't need to be a whale to support OW1. I 50 lootbox pack for $40 a year I felt like I contributed MASSIVELY to the game, as if I would've bought the game a second time, and I got rewarded with 200 random cosmetics that I mostly didn't own thanks to the duplication avoidance. $40 only gets you 2 measly skins at most. Its not good value and I don't feel like I support the game with it when there is $2000 "worth" of stuff released every 8 weeks.
without the constant pumping of these kiri and mercy skins excluding this season we won't be close to how we are now believe it or not a lot of funds come from the suppposed"whales"
@@Bad3abdul I can't believe this. There are supposedly 20 million active overwatch players. I can guarantee you, 75% would buy skins on the regular if legendaries would cost $5 instead of $20, giving Blizzard 75mil profit on each skin. Whales would buy even if the price would be a bit more affordable so millions more would buy the skins. Making the game this expensive is literally self-sabotaging
The game itself was $50, so spending that much on skins doesn't seem crazy to me since it's free to everyone now. I bought ow1 twice, and no one called me a whale for spending $100 on it 😂 you can still get "free" skins like we did with the lootboxes, you just have to play and you will earn coins to "buy" them. It's not a random award after xp now, it's awarding coins for that xp you earned so you can go specifically get whatever you want,, instead of for example grinding to get a loot box only to get a few things like a spray voice line ect of heroes you don't even play or the stuff isn't even something you want.
that simply can't be true, there are supposedly 20 million players for this game. There is no way it needs to be this greedy and rely this heavily on the 0.1% of players that buy everything for it to be profitable. They were so proud that the game made $100 mil in its first financial qourter. They would be making that weekly if skins would be $2.5-$5 dollar in price instead of $10-$20
The problem for me, is that people (whales and the vunerable), are paying more and more, and yet we are getting less and less. What happened to getting value for money?
The game is free to play...... The battle pass is 10 dollars and you get a lot of that back if you play all the way through. 80 prisims per season for 10$ or less to spend on mythic cosmetics. Most people only play a few characters (devs have confirmed this), and also only buy cosmetics for those few characters. So unless you have to have everything or play many different characters, most people will probably end up with lots or extra prisims and nothing to spend it on at some point down the road. The cosmetics pay for everything else in the game that is FREE for everyone, so this hysteria around the monetization is somewhat overblown. It's not perfect by any means and some things could be better for sure, but people like to overreact...
@mattevans4377 The only thing that costs money is optional cosmetics (in a first person game btw), many of which can be obtained through a relatively cheap batle pass. I would argue that some of the paid only stuff might or might not be worth the price, but to each their own. You also have to consider that game development across the industry has gone up a lot, and I believe there are more people working on this game than before it became overwatch 2.
you've never had to give blizzard your credit card to fully experience overwatch 2 (excluding the sad remains of pve). it's literally infinite value. $0 for (potentially) 1000s of hours of play time. if the servers shut down tomorrow the core base game will have still been of infinite value since the cost to play a fully fledged live service multiplayer shooter was free for however long you enjoyed it. with a model like that there is very little room to complain about eking out any more value than is sustained by the whales. games like this rely on the backing of exorbitant spenders, and since the devs have kept it honest by not selling power or advancement (bp tier skips can be argued though) i really cannot fault them for trying to sustain the value they are providing us for free. they can increase prices to whatever level they feel they need to and it will change my buying habits but that's not tantamount to my feeling towards the game and my past (and current) enjoyment of it
I've always felt the "Cosmetics don't affect gameplay" to be a bad defense because for a lot of people cosmetics are the reward you build towards. There's a reason they sell them for absurd prices because people want them because getting a new skin is fun. It was fun to farm weekly golden coins in ow1 to get a new legendary I wanted. It gave me something to build towards that I specifically wanted, where the BP is now filled with stuff I don't care about. It may not directly affect gameplay but it directly affects my enjoyment of the game.
people that argue cosmetics don't affect gameplay are not looking at things realistically. They are strictly comparing the two in a vacuum by removing all the context of how everything actually works in the real world. Your absolutely correct that cosmetic MTX undermine the progression systems of the game and remove rewarding gameplay features by earning those cosmetics through actual gameplay. On an even broader scope cosmetic MTX has changed the entire landscape of games, does no one ever ask themselves how a company is able to pump out dozens of high quality cosmetics on a monthly basis but yet it take magnitudes longer for them to develop content or fix issues with their game. Its simple there are far more devs working on cosmetics because it is what makes the company money and far less working on actually developing the game and fix issues. If actually making the game and making sure if functioned properly was the thing that made the company money you would see significantly more effort and man power put into that side of things.
I think when people say that all matters is the gameplay, they're wrong. i think the best example of this is MK1. the gameplay in that game is a good as ever. but the game's playerbase plummeted because the only way to get any worthwhile rewards is essentially through a gacha system or a shitty store. and so in the match to match gameplay you'd get nothing frlm your hard earned win besides satisfaction which isn't enough to keep a playerbase. the satisfaction of winning and improving isn't good enough now and days. you need somekind of incentive for players to play and a worthwhile reward when they do
@@grimsdol4665 that's not what this is though, that's the ranked ladder lol. people are not spending $20 on a skin to feel accomplished, that i assure you. skins are literally just cosmetic and a weird status symbol. it's so weird to whine when you can't afford something that's a want or don't think something is worth X$ - like, if it's too expensive just don't buy it. i don't get it.
@c_nn_r298 because it's still a piece of content. it's still some kind of reason to keep playing. the fact of the matter is no matter what game it is. players will quickly get bored of the gameplay loop. so if you want players to keep on playing, you'll need to give them a reason to play beyond just the gameplay and if you'rea F2P live service game you really, really need em to. if you want example just look at Overwatch patches towards the end. most players stop playing because they don't have a reason to keep playing. even if the gameplay is fun they've done it Thousands of times already. and now they get nothing out of it
"Paid Cosmetics dont matter" mf when they see games entire monitization built off of cosmetics. Obviously they DO matter to a lot of people and they're apart of the reward structure. They're what you hype new updates around. They're what you sell in battle passes. Cosmetics all being scummy to get doesn't make it better because they're cosmetics.
@@alexparaskeuopoulos4169 not to sound like I think your point is totally invalid, but is $10 not enough to buy you a battle pass, in which you not only gain 80 prisms, but also the 1000 coins needed to purchase the next battle pass as well? If we're being a bit practical, or cynical, $10 is probably enough money to buy you every battle pass, and every mythic skin, as long as you don't spend the coins elsewhere? Though I do believe this current battle pass does not include enough coins to purchase another, so maybe they changed that, or my memory of the rewards is faulty.
Revenue Analyst here, Blizzard is not very well informed on their own KPI's (Key Performance Indicators). They are overly focused on the pricing elasticity part of their business model (what's the highest amount of $ you can get for an item before too many consumers say its not worth it, and that higher price actually negatively impacts your topline revenue #). Elasticity is important, but they fail to understand the lifetime value of their players (LTV = value gained from a consumer over the life of their engagement with your product - this could be direct purchases in game, merchandising, or word of mouth marketing). Sure you can get 5% of your player base to pay $26 for a skin, but for those 95% who don't buy it, those players effectively experience no new content. When most of your content is wrapped up into your skins, and your skins are out of the price range for the vast majority of your player base, you've suddenly sped up the rate at which you lose engagement. That is why Fortnite prints money, they understand that the value isn't in the $ amount of the individual transactions, the value is keeping those players engaged at reasonable prices for a longer period of time. The revenue of that model typically nets out higher over time. However, the money could even net out the same over time or lower, but you would have a more favorable view of your product, which is important because your NPS (Net Promotor Score, which puts people into buckets of Promoter, Detractor, or Indifferent) has a direct connection to the success of your future endeavors and your overall brand loyalty. Once you lose trust with your consumers, you have less excitement for whatever comes next. Blizzard looks at this through a very simple lens which is, what's the highest revenue # we can achieve this quarter and this year? That has a cost.
Thank you for putting your input on this, I like seeing more technical explainations for things that just seem so dumb to me, if only blizzard would change their ways for the better, this IP could be SO SO MUCH bigger than what it already is
I think thwe whale argument isn't the fact that they exist, it's the fact that more and more games are catering to the whales specifically. Another problem is then people who are susceptible to predatory market practices can get swept up when the company goes whaling
Agreed. The minority of people who buy everything are kinda ruining it for everyone else. But at the end of the day it's Blizzards fault. If skins were cheaper I would legitimately buy more. I've skipped a lot of skins I genuinely liked because of the price. But players like me just aren't their target audience... Which is sad because players like me make up the majority of their playerbase.
@@AgentDigits I don't like whales due to the reinforcement of bad business practices. Why would a business stop doing something if they make a ton of money off of it?
@AgentDigits it's not Blizzards fault. Their a business they go where the money leads them. Its the fault of the Whales who buy no matter what controversy or decision Blizzard makes, they buy everything up. So Blizzard caters towards them because their money is always guaranteed. There's a reason for the saying vote with your wallet. If whales stopped buying everything up for a month or 2 Blizzard would start shifting their practices and ideas real quick.
@@soloalpaca5772which is why it’s justified to blame the whales. They’re the root problem, sure they’re just enjoying themselves, but not knowingly, the harm the experience of other players.
I hate when people go "You don't have to buy them" like bro stfu what if you wanna buy them? It shouldn't have to cost you an arm and a leg to get a skin you like.
It's even more annoying when same content creators judge people on skins they pick while watching replays. And here I thought skins didn't matter, so why flame someone over picking mid skin?
@@You_are_wrong99lol some of you guys have a problem you don’t want to address with microtransactions. Some of you guys have 100s of skins and still clamor more for giving extra money to a multibillion dollar corporation. Not even Just Overwatch players but dang. Is it really that hard to just not buy it?
Agreed. The vast majority of skins are not worth the price... and the majority of players are only gonna buy skins at the current prices if there's a lot of effort put into them. And OW typically only puts vast amounts of effort into skins for very specific characters. *cough* Kiriko *cough*
Agreed, but I'll also die on the hill that the Diablo and WoW (also Starcraft, I never see those skins and forgot) collab skins should not have been full price. No money changed hands for licensing purposes, so there's no reason we should pay full price for self-collabs. It's a weird hill to die on, but it's my hill.
It would be understandable if epics are 5, legendaries are 10, and mythics are 20. But recolors and epic skins disguised as legendaries just so that they can price them up costing $20? 👁️👁️. Also, maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough, but it seems like nothing in the shop really goes on sale either.
There is a problem with "the trailers being good" because it means the animation team are spending all their time making ads instead of making animated shorts or a TV show. Blizzard and Microsoft don't seem to realise the best ad for Overwatch is the animated shorts, that is what got so many people into the game in the first place.
btw the content in the bp has gotten smaller due to all currencies taking up slots (prisms credits etc) and there’s still souvenirs in there like.. shadez made a good vid on the topic
Not just that, but the amount of tiers that contain more than one reward went down as well. In previous seasons store currency usually was paired with things like banners or voice lines
And people dont even give a shit about these. So not only are they pointless, but now we cant even get as many pointless things as we used to. Its a joke, their battlepass value is rooted in Mythic coins to the point where they will stop putting them in there because people just buy the battlepass to get them and thats it.
Id liken it more as being with a cheating partner. They say sorry I'll do better and you want to believe them but know it's probably a really bad idea but you've spent so much time and effort into this that you cant
Flats trying to gaslight his stream into not complaining about high shop prices is crazy! streamers are whales by definition btw. Flats never fails, having 3 decent takes followed by the largest L take
@@datninja4737 coins, credits, comp points, legacy comp points, mythic prisims, owl tokens.... I'll even let the last one slide, considering it's being phased out. That's still also 5 currencies.
Easy to quit OW when all your friends quit for Deadlock like mine. Deadlock is just so much better. No bullshit no skill supports like Mercy or Juno to ruin my games
They just sold a $90 mount in WoW yesterday, so yeah Blizzard is both greedy in WoW and Overwatch. It is just out of control now and people are buying this stuff up like candy ruining the experience for those of us that would rather reserve our money for other things. When I was growing up you bought a game for $60 and had it forever. Now its all live service garbage with tons of microtransactions, but they just really rename it to macrotransactions at this point
Skins are the only meaningful progression system that Overwatch has, you can’t get better gear or beat a hard raid. That’s why having them locked behind a paywall feels so bad.
And it’s not like window shopping for stuff you can’t afford, we used to get this stuff by playing for free, and now they locked it out with the release of the “2”. It’s like buying a house, and then later down the line, 2 of the rooms are locked out.
Flats is wrong about "why people get upset about the whales in overwatch 2", the problem with big spenders on Overawatch is that it leads to certain heroes getting more attention and love from the devs than other heroes which in turn means that they'll be more likely to get collaboration skins like Rein, Kiri Juno etc. When this happens it can also affect the decision making when it comes to balancing the game, it's no surprise that Ram got a major nerf not being able to pummel through shields right when Rein got his new collaboration skin. They don’t want Rein players to buy a new skin if they won't be able to play properly against another tank that will force them to go back to spawn and change. I see people comparing the skin topic with Fortnite but the difference is that the skins on Fortnite aren't tied to any gameplay aspects whereas on Overwatch the skins are tied to characters who have different interactions and input in the game so when certain heroes are more popular and getting skins it will eventually lead to unfair balancing on behalf of these "whales" in the game.
yes, and they reworked sombra that fast in order to sell widow's mythic! like cmon, this rework is shit, they didn't even thought it out carefully, they just harshly nerfed her
I really don't think the game is balanced around skins. If that were true mercy would be hard meta but instead she's been mid at best for like 4 seasons
@@Martok2309 I'm not saying the game is primarily balanced around skins but you'd be stupid to think that the skins don’t have ANY influence on what balance is put into the game, like someone else mentioned, Sombra nerf right before widow mythic and how I stated that Ram got a major nerf directly correlated to the release of Reins collaboration skin. These can't be coincidences that Reins biggest counter and Widows biggest counter both got hard nerfed at doing their jobs against said characters just in time for their respective skin releases.
Crazy how I can buy some really good games on steam for less than 10€ when they're on sale, but blizzard expects us to pay 80+ bucks for a fucking useless cosmetic
To anyone watching this, before you buy a skin, go play hollow knight beginning to end for $15. Then realize that experience, according to blizzard, is worth less than a single fucking legendary skin. 3 legendary skins are worth totk, or BG3, or GoW Ragnarok.
It’s like u said tho, it’s a USELESS cosmetic, there isn’t any need to buy it other than if you the player like the quality of the skin, I don’t understand the uproar when they’re just cosmetics and not like skills or weapons that change gameplay ect
@@jbslump Because skins are the only form of "progression" that exists in the game. Because having skins in a game constantly engages in psychological warfare by making players jealous and therefore want to spend money (watch the "lets go whaling presentation", they literally talk about this being one of their main tactics is just wearing the player down). Because there's no need in charging $20 per skin when you could likely sell 4x or more skins at $5 and therefore break even. Because these items are basically NFT's in which you actually own absolutely nothing, you don't even have any tangible good by purchasing it. Those are just a few reasons, give me a day or 2 and I'm sure I can think of more. And don't say "well just don't play the game", that isn't a defense in any way it's purely just deflecting and admitting that it is problematic. I mean it's not wrong, but it's not an actual argument.
@@darcidious99sure, if you’re so weak minded you “HAVE” to have a shiny skin that YOU don’t even see while playing the FREE game. Of course there’s skins I want, but guess what. I don’t buy them because I tell myself it’s just a game and a skin effects me in no way at all. Doesn’t change my gameplay, doesn’t gain me more respect. Just makes me think, briefly, that some random nerds I’ll never speak to or even meet, MIGHT think “that looks cool” for a brief moment.
@13:32. The reason to be mad at whales is because they encourage more greedy practices. If whales spend more money on practices that are greedy, it encourages the company to do more of the greedy practices. OW is not at a point like Genshin or Honkai: Star Rail where the base game has amazing content for everyone at the base. It's PvP has made people very decisive, and besides PvP content, OW is just skins. The content is kinda lackluster. Therefore it doesn't justify the greedy practices. But when whales spend money, regardless of the quality of the game, of course people would get mad.
@pippo17173 he forgot that a game needs to appeal to not just whales but the normal people. At the end, he was talking about it's unfair to compare Fortnite and OW. But fortnite actually made a good game, kept renovating and improving it, and paired that with greedy practices like the collaborations. But no one will care because fortnite keeps making their game fresh and doesn't make promises it can't keep.
@@gatowololo5629you’re only supposed to buy the ones for characters you use. Not a single player in this game actively plays the entire roster of heroes to the extent they NEED the mythic skin. That’s why the mythic weapons even exist; it gives people who don’t like the hero who got the mythic skin a second chance You can argue that prisms cost too much (true) but that’s literally only because they’re trying to get you to buy the battle pass instead
@@KikiCatMeowpredatory mechanics are predatory mechanics, and there are people who do absolutely play the entire roster (maybe not well but still). The currency isnt there to drive you to the battle pass, its there to obfuscate the true value of the product. Paying 3000 gold coins for a skin doesnt sound like a lot until you realize it's $30, then it sounds a lot worse. If this WERENT a predatory mechanic, then every skin would have their value displayed as real world currency so players know exactly what a skin costs or doesn't cost... So why have 3 or 4 different currencies? So the player gets confused and just buys as much as possible. They want pricing to be confusing because they don't want you to think while making a purchase, they want you to mindlessly purchase and move on to the next purchase. This is how the live service market works, all of this is explained in the "lets go whaling" presentation.
Flats, gonna have to disagree on the current cosmetic system 'not affecting the gameplay'. It does. Not on a moment-to-moment basis, but a long term basis. If I bought Overwatch back in 2016 and played regularly, doing my arcade boxes and event boxes, I could have gotten every cosmetic available normally. All for the $60 entry. Now, if you were to start a fresh account, you have ZERO chance of collecting everything in a timely manner. If you want a regular stream of rewards, at the same rate of old Overwatch, you have to pay $10 a season, and every collaboration costs almost as much as Overwatch did at launch. Everything that could once be earned is now behind a paywall.
@@UNUSUALstrangeVINTAGEgenuine look before the game OVERWATCH was behind the paywall and everything else was free but now those stuff that were free before are now behind the paywall and the game is free this better environment
Overwatch needs to cut skin costs by a MINIMUM of 50%. I'd advocate for 70/80%, cause I will NEVER pay overwatch a dime when they have yet to make me want to play the game solo.
To me, I think the biggest issue with whales (at least in Overwatch) is that they set the bar so high for pricing compared to what the average player is actually willing to pay, and it lets Blizzard get away with gouging as much money out of them as they can while leaving everyone else just shit out of luck.
Agreed. I mean Blizzard doesn't even give us 1000 coins in a Battlepass. We only get 600. And they only added that in the last few seasons. It's kinda crazy. Fortnite literally gives you more V-Bucks than the cost of their battlepass. Their battlepass is INSANELY good value. Overwatch's isn't, because you aren't even guaranteed to get skins for characters you even play. The store and prices suck but honestly, the battlepass isn't much better. Especially since 2 of the battlepass skins are locked behind and "Ultimate bundle". It's ridiculous imo.
"Well informed" yeah because they actually play the game before they do the review, it's not only pure opinion. They are just as fair with WoW, too. Their most scathing reviews of changes in WoW often are followed by "did the devs even play the game/changes they made to know how bad this sucks?"
OW2 has so little new content that new skins are a big part of what is exciting about the game. Yes, this is the sad state of OW2. I didn't mind the battle pass, but all the best skins have moved out of bp. I'm not paying $20 for a skin. So what do i have to be excited about? Thats the problem with the "skins are optional" argument.
"Doesnt effect gameplay" is kind ofna myth, overwatch has an insentive to make popular characters more skins, BUT also keep them strong Thats why sombra got blasted as soon as widow got mythic Thats why kiri will never get her suzu changed
While I do understand the whole "you don't need to buy them" argument, I still wholeheartedly hate it. You simply cannot pretend that customization isn't a pretty fucking big part of the game, and the fact that it costs your estranged billionaire grandfather's inheritance to buy the googolplexth Kiriko skin released in a goddamn month is just really fucking tiring. Sometimes it feels like they aren't doing these macrotransactions to fund the game that they are making, but to simply milk the ever living shit out of a feature that is meant to allow players to express themselves.
honestly put the mythic skin back at tier 80, keep the mythic prisms in the battlepass, bring back the unlock challenges for mythics but make it better. For example, you can still do the challenges a season later just as long as you got tier 80, and make the challenges like the cute and pixel spray challenges. Like you have to do that character specific challenge to upgrade the mythic.
Blizzard will always start by trying to be as exploitative as possible when it comes to monetization, and then community has to shout them down until they make it a little bit more fair (I.e. Heroes in battle pass, etc).
Price wouldn't be a problem if the value proposition was good. Fucking Paladins offers more complete skins than OW. Custom effects, new voice, etc. Basically a mythic. Fortnite has a back cosmetic, pickaxe, glider, multiple cosmetics in a pack you can use with other skins.
I’m ngl this was some of the worst takes I’ve ever heard out of flats about monetization, the free battle pass is something that existed before Fortnite, “it doesn’t affect the gameplay” is such a bullshit argument, “and they gotta make money somehow” does not excuse 80$ skins and YES THEY ARE 80$ THE BATTLEPASS GETTING ONE DOESNT COUNT
Given everything with PvE I already have a bad taste in my mouth spending money on OW. The greedy monetization is the nail in the coffin, since it's clear they don't value having good will with the community. Also, stuff like the "grippers" Kiriko tweet just makes me disgusted.
For those of us who didn't play until a couple of seasons ago. There is no hope in getting all the mythic skins I want without spending hundreds of dollars
Flats, you asked why whales are hates, here are the reasons: The encourage the worst monetization possible, as the monetization is made around whaling. The monetization becomes centered around squeezing every last cent out of you. You example with lootboxes, they have REASONS to now make lootboxes drop less so whales buy them. 20 EUR skin are crazy in OW already, but it can become much worse. Whales are the reason P2W exists. In many games I played, MMOs and so on, were ruined by whales bying power. Is there a shitty mechanic tied to monetization in the game? The wales are 100% at fault.
Flats asking the question at what point do we move on from the broken promises and failed premise of Overwatch 2 to focus on a better game and new direction is an interesting one with a proven answer. No Man Sky. No one cares about its launch anymore or broken promises. Its devs stopped giving promises and just worked on the game, releasing more and more actual CONTENT for the game to the point they have surpassed their original promises and have made a game worth investing your time into. Overwatch 2 is only really releasing skins. The balance is the same problems as always, it took an entire community begging for them to try anything different like 6v6 overall. Its less when do we move on, and when will these devs actually do Anything to make us not think about what could have been.
Blizzard should have realised that longevity exists when lore and characters are loved. When people love the story, characters and the world are loved; the money will follow. Impatience and business men kill creativity.
Overwatch 1 goes free to play with good monetization system ❌️ Release Overwatch 2 disguising as one former self and ruining everything good what your past self did ✅️
What a lot of people dont realise about Whales (and why IMO milking whales is bad) is that a lot of them dont have good self control/are addicted and cant actually afford to spend all the money they do. Thats way more prevelent in games with gambeling mechanics but also still happens in games with more direct or purely cosmetic mirco transactions. Yes, whales fund games but getting a lot of people to spend a little bit instead of a few people spending a lot is a way more ethical way of funding a game that could be done pretty easily but just dosnt alway make the most amount of money possible, and the CEOs yachts and cars arent gonna buy themself.
I’d like to point out that the team of 40-60 that created OW1 raked in a BILLION dollars the first year of release. They kept a very solid yearly profit and then rebranded to “OW2”. Now there’s apparently 400 people working on OW2 and it’s maintaining 225mil which is a ton. Average Salary for an Overwatch dev is 72,800 a year, so to feed all 400 of their starving artists it’s 28 mil a year. Short answer, they’re doing fine and they’re not even remotely struggling to break even. Skins really don’t remotely have to be this much, and OW1 helps show this
Being able to earn all the skins was one of the biggest selling points of Overwatch to me. Now I feel like my time is being completely wasted not earning anything. The gameplay has always been flawed but the ability to earn all the cool’s skins they were releasing kept me around ow1 till the end. Now?… give us money. That’s it. Or grind our trash 5v5 experiment for months to earn a bp. A bp that shrinks. They tell me I have more choice in this game but only make select skins earnable in the bp and events. Probs just going to end up leaving. Even with the return of 6v6 as much as i preferred that format. Don’t need to see all the cool shop skins and collab skins that I’ll never get to own.
Seriously, it’s a video game. If the price of some optional, cosmetic pixels gets you this emotional, you need to fix your priorities. I’ll preface by saying, yes there’s some expensive skins I want and would probably buy if they were cheap. But they’re not cheap, so I move on and forget about it. Guess what I else I want that isn’t cheap? A Ferrari. And I won’t own one of those unless I pay their price. It’s a free game. COMPLETELY FREE TO PLAY. Not only that, but there’s plenty (and some great) skins that you can buy with in-game currency you earn by playing (so again, FREE). Skins don’t effect gameplay. They don’t gain you respect. They don’t get you more e-girls. YOU don’t even see them while playing the game. There comes a point where you need to analyse your priorities and desires. “But I want to collect the skins”. Why? No really.. why? Because that gives you a sense of achievement? Again.. priorities. If you want to collect something, at least collect something physical that holds value, instead of some pixels that you don’t even own. It’s just a game, guys. Optional cosmetics are in a video game should not hold a single iota of importance to your life. There will be a day, way sooner than later, you’ll regret caring so much about such irrelevant things. How’s your Mom doing? When’s the last time you gave her a hug?
Im really sad. For me the glory of Overwatch was the animated shorts, the lore, the pve gamemodes, and the fact that they killed all of that is just depressing. I am a big fan of the cosmetics and the competitiveness too but without all the other things it has really made me enjoy the game less.
"Why do people have problems with whales?" Because they create the goal for the live service mtx developer. It inherently makes the devs think "We don't care about what the majority players think, we should cater towards high rollers" when at the end of it we're all playing the same game.
What they've done in Junkenstein's Laboratory needs to be implemented into core OW2, but with some tweaking. First off, not having it be Halloween themed, obviously. Second, a mix of role and hero-specific talents would make it more accessible, such as Mercy's +10% healing talent being available for *all* supports if they desire to have it. The balance needs adjusting on many of the talent cards, and the RNG element needs to be removed. Instead, have all tier 1 talents available to choose from at the start of a match, then gain access to all tier 2 talents in the next round, and so on. Power scaling is equal for everyone. Would need to figure out how to do this for non-round game modes like Push (maybe have the players go back to spawn to acquire them when available, like when the Push bot reaches a checkpoint?). Talents are exactly what OW2 needs to remain fun and engaging, especially with other games on the horizon already stealing players from it.
im gonna say it. Cosmetics matter more than the gameplay in Overwatch. Because what is ACTUALLY getting people to come back and keep playing again? It isn't microbuffing Orisa for the 17th time, it isnt playing against Mauga, it isn't support queues, its the events that give cosmetics and other items.
10:48 Ball is my favorite tank and bizzard made the mistake of making all of his purple tier skins really good. I dont have to spend mich to be satisfied.
I don't agree with the conclusion that the grand vision of what overwatch was supposed to be, was murdered in favour of a skin shop. We all played the Invasion missions, and they were... not good. They were genuinely terrible. Awful would be putting it mildly. The vision for Overwatch PvE was nice, but the reality wound up not working at all. So now they're just trying to make the most (money) of what they have after the original goal fell apart. I would like for them to attempt PvE again, but it has to be something along the lines of the raids from Destiny. It is rather bizarre to me that Blizzard inspired Destiny's raids with WoW, but then Overwatch didn't get inspired by WoW and make raids too (when their shooter literally has MMO trinity baked into it, and every aspect of the game design is focused around that.) Instead they made some really weak, bland story missions inspired by Left 4 Dead. Some of Overwatch's more interesting team moments involve almost PvE style mechanics, like dodging Bastion's ult, dealing with a Bob, finding Torb or Illari's turrets etc. These are similar to what you'd see in a raid, more mechanics based rather than shooting tons of AI in the face over and over, but the latter is what Overwatch's PvE went with, rather than cool boss fights with interesting mechanics.
One of those rare takes where I don't agree with Flats. Saying it's not that bad when many of us came from Overwatch 1 is crazy. As someone who spent money on loot boxes a couple of times in the original game. It never bothered me. I felt good knowing I could earn things in the game itself, and it never really felt bad dropping a little extra to support the game and maybe net a couple more items I wanted to use. I used to love doing achievements to get unlocks on champions I loved playing. I enjoyed that every 3-4 games I got a loot box giving me that little dopamine rush wondering if I will get something cool for my main character. You wouldn't always get something you were excited for but getting anything at all felt nice and every once in a while, you would get a hit and be super excited to load up the next game and try it out. It made you want to keep playing. You had cool events coming out all the time. Maybe you took a break for a while and heard a Halloween event was coming. Everyone would come back to the game excited to see the new stuff. Ready to play hundreds and hundreds of hours to access a skin they saw that they specifically wanted out of the event. Now we have an event, and everything is behind a paywall. You log in and if you got it buy that 1 cool item you wanted day 1. You have nothing to work towards and no reason to invest time playing to get said reward. You get burned out easier and it gives you less reason to want to play. Now we have a system where you cannot earn anything in the game. It just feels terrible. Even with the battle pass which is "Good value" you need to pull out your wallet. They are selling thing's at absolutely wild prices. When you can buy Elden Ring and it's DLC for the price of a single skin in OW at some point you should be disgusted. Riot has the same model more or less. However, they aren't pillaging their player base. You can spend 20 bucks and get yourself 3-4 skins you like. What are you getting for 20 bucks in overwatch? An 8 year old skin? 3 sprays? 2 emotes? You have to spend upwards of 100 dollars to get anything someone might actually want. As someone like him with plenty of disposable income it will probably not feel like that big of a deal. Someone like him who already has thousands and thousands of items from playing OW since S1. Think about it though. He has spent thousands of dollars on this game something most of us will not do and feasibly cannot do. So, what the solution is just be rich and Overwatch is fun? Think about it from a new player perspective. Someone like me I have hundreds of cosmetics, sprays, icons, gun skins, and all hero's unlocked from playing the original game. I can customize all the characters in the game from playing the original. Any new character comes out and I only have to look at 1 character at a time to customize as they release. Imagine you just start playing today. You have literally nothing! Then when you try and see how to maybe get 1-2 cool items for a character you've been enjoying. You just see this glaring paywall in front of you. Everyone else is running around with really cool things. Meanwhile it can take you months just to earn a single skin from 8 years ago on one character. You got all these people yelling at you to swap picks in games, but you only spent enough to make one character the way you like them. You constantly have to switch mid game and feel bad because you are sitting on a base character because it's for the good of the team. Sure, skins are cosmetic and don't give you an advantage in the actual game itself. However, who wants to sit there and see 9 other people who are all unique and expressing themselves while they run around on their base character with 1 voice line unlocked. You are basically made to be an outcast and if you want to fit in you need to cough it up. People always say the game isn't growing. Well yea because people who try the game out see how far behind that they are. They do not want to push to have even 1/100th of what everyone else does. You have a broken game that is rarely balanced at all. Everyone else has amazing things unlocked that you cannot get to unless you drop thousands on the game. You play a whole ranked season to earn literally nothing. Even events now don't give you anything. We have 2 events rolling currently all you can get is a couple of sprays. Not even a gun charm.... Sprays that nobody uses other than maybe in spawn for 10 seconds waiting for a game to start. Greed is by far killing this game. You are literally blind folded if you cannot see it.
Nobody is talking about this but for the previous anniversary events you could buy previous shop skins with legacy coins and for this year they didn't do that, you had to buy those skins with normal coins. That is such BS.
as a destiny player i can tell you that these companies dont always if the majority of ever use the money whales dish out for the game everyone loves. bungie was in fact using alot if not most of the money destiny was making to support other projects... that got scrapped anyways... im not saying overwatch is doing that but it is blizzard/ microsoft we are talking about. Plus whales aside mythic or not i dont think a skin should ever cost more than a full fledged game. or even 2/3 of a full fledged game. in the case of the battle passes. and in regards to the battle pass. take into consideration the time and labor it takes to complete said battle pass if you dont buy pass tears. that has a value that blizzard is well aware of on top of the 30 to 40 dollars you spent on the pass unlocks. all so they can "support" a free to play game by buffing orisa and mauga and nerfing rein and ram for some reason.
People hate the whales because they continue to feed awful greedy practices that everyone has come to despise in the gaming world. Where everything is focused on absorbing as much money as possible from everyone, while barely putting forth much effort/content into the product. Every season that passes feels exactly the same cause it's just a refresh of the battle pass. There's no hard tangible content, just adjustments and "come spend" events. If they were smart, they would've gone all out and finished the PvE and kept building on it. Bet you ANYTHING it would've done super well. Especially in a game that people are clawing to the skies for more lore and getting nothing...
People cried about the Overwatch 1 loot box system (which was the best loot box system I've experienced in any game) and now we have this, I hope those who complained are happy. Would you rather earn a bunch of loot boxes for free, stack them up, and at the end of the week open them all up but maybe get a legendary for a character you don't play too often every week or so, or complete two seasons just to have enough free coins to buy one legendary skin you want, which will roughly take you almost half a year?
The problem people have with the Devs catering to whales is that it's the developers actively choosing not to make the game experience better. The proof of this is simply the fact that the Battlepass exists; regardless of what you problems you may have with battlepasses (which largely mirror the same problem) having the premium battlepass does make the game experience better by giving you a semi-longterm goal and rewards that time. At least a battlepass gestures at exploring a design space that gives you a better time, and expensive skins in the shop don't do that. Particularly for the non-whales who main characters who don't get many skins to begin with, seeing constant shop updates and collabs just make it feel like the devs are spending no resources on making your experience better. If you play Fortnite, most of these issues are completely alleviated by the simple fact that every season (often less than that) you can actually see the amount of money being poured into the games development.
I'm normally a big Flats supporter and think you spit facts, but my boi just spent 3 minutes doing mental gymnastics to justify the mythic prism prices. If that aint a shill move idk what is, cmon man.
Whales affect 2 things in competitive games. 1. Which heroes get more skins meaning lesser heroes cuz theyre not as popular won't get new skins as often. 2. Hero Balance. They have to make sure the heroes they sell skins for are meta viable and dont make the whales feel bad for playing them.
Remember when everybody had the same arguments about loot boxes in OW? "Waahhh lute boxes are sooooo bad". Well this is the result. Be careful of what you ask for.
@@nova_steric1749 id argue the lootbox from ow1 was great, you will eventually be able to buy a skin you want, even if it takes a while, better than spending 20 bucks i guess
@@nova_steric1749 It wasnt that bad tho. I had everything I wanted without spending money. I bet you had a lot of great stuff too. What have you gotten in overwatch 2 without spending money? Maybe a recolour in a specific event at launch? That reaper skin?
@@scotttimbrell8632 the only good thing is that lootboxes back then weren't supposed to make them money. If that system would've been applied today, it would be the most vicious predatory system there was, since it's tied to gambling in some sense. So no, lootboxes are not the way. They are not good, and will never be. Look at apex. You need to cycle 500 lootboxes to get a mythic cosmetic. And people are all in for them. It's ass.
4:04 the thing is, at some point you don't move on anymore, you don't keep playing. At some point you just stop playing because they can't keep getting away with scams like these
18:54 Took a lot of work my ass. They spent years focusing on only pve pouring resources into it, you can bet they have way more of this shit stashed up and ready to go. I'm betting that literally all they had to do was the UI for the perk selection, making control point a best of 5 instead of 3, and some balance changes for the perk numbers and ult charges. All things that one single full time indie dev could prob make test and finish in under 2 weeks. Don't get me wrong, I love the gamemode too, but I think justifying the lack of content in other areas of the game with the excuse of this gamemode taking a lot of work is delusional.
It's funny how they canned PvE in order to focus more on PvP, but then they don't even get the PvP changes right. Cosmetics are given to interns to recolor and Mythics have barebones customization, and most the time feel out of theme.
I'll say it again. There is no reason why the Mythic skin need to have tier unlocks. The only value it holds is allowing a player to play with the skin early at its base model . Its highly doubtful that any player would only purchase a Mythic skin for its base aspects alone. The player is unable to purchase freely which customization they would like and must so do in sequential order. Get rid of the unlock tiers and make it one bulk purchase. The unlocks are not earned through conventional game play mechanics they are bought with currency obtained via the battle pass or by additional purchases. It would be another argument if such tiers where unlocked for free via game play such as winning games or getting eliminations/Assists with certain abilities or ults.
In a practical sense though this is just worse. Lets say you want the tier 4 unlock for the skin, right? You need 80 prisms for that unlock. Whether you buy the base+tiers or if it’s bundled, you won’t get that tier 4 until you already have 80 prisms. It’s the same amount of time regardless Now let’s say you only want, idk, the tier 2 style. With the tier system you only need to spend 60 prisms, but if it were bundled you would still need to spend 80 prisms even though you don’t want the extra options. It forces you to all-or-nothing with expensive, limited currency. Now that aspects are a thing, that 20 prism difference is HUGE Making the mythics a singular 80 purchase does nothing for those who want the styles faster and actively harms those who don’t want the higher tiers
@@KikiCatMeow If i can get vouches of player who have indeed chosen to not unlock the full set there would be some volatility to that argument that I'd have to consider. For now I'll explain my stance in more detail it might be a bit of a read. As it stands it feels merely like the artificial process put in place to create a sense of 'pride and accomplishment' since you have to unlock the skin's options in stages by means of purchasing it. That is the part I don't like. As it feels fake and implemented simply to take extra steps to psychologically push a player to spend more since they already unlocked some they might as well unlock all of it. Recently Xbox gave away 30 prisms to those players who play OW2 and have an active Gamepass account. This giveaway came out just before the new gold mythic skins were announced. Its 10 more then you need for one gold skin, but it is also enough that if you buy the 40 dollars to get the 50 prism bundle you'd have 80. Its there to push the player into either spending them and be left with 10 causing them to have to spent more to even it out to 80 prisms or spend the $40 bucks to get the 50 prisms to make it enough to unlock everything in a set. There is nothing that comes out to exactly 30 prism that can be bought for that amount in its entirety beyond the three additional tiers of a mythic skin after the base skin that costs 50 prisms has been purchased. It reeks of a marketing ploy that is designed to put the player in a purposefully designed and implemented inconvenience that incentivizes them to spend money in a predatory manner. Blizzard could have just as easily gave out 20 prisms to allow a player the freedom of choice to spend it on 1 new gold skin of their choice to give the player agency over their desired unlock. Or even straight up gave away 80 prisms flat out to allow a player to either get a Mythic skin that they missed out on or to save for one that will out later. Giving away 30 prism was a deliberate choice by those in charge of implementing that give away. I am well aware an accept that OW2 is free to play and they have to make money some how and cosmetics is by fair the most agreed upon thing that players will accept are going to be monetized. But Blizzard doesn't have to resort to scummy marketing gimmicks that prey on the customer with digital currency amounts that don't add up to the purchases you can make.
I would argue that the customization does affect gameplay. Not in terms of mechanics, but mechanics are not the only way to enjoy a game. When you play something like Elden Ring, for example, you want your character to look cool and fit your personality. I realize that the gear in games like that do affect stats but a lot of them allow you to keep the gear you like the look of but give you the better stats. A great example of this is Marvel's Spiderman (1&2) where each Spidey suit has a different skill and you can take the skill you like and transfer it to one you like the look of. I mean, seriously, why do so many of us spend hours creating a character in something like Baldur's Gate III if it's "just cosmetic. It doesn't affect gameplay."? Because it does affect your enjoyment of said game. The way your character looks matters and these companies know that otherwise they wouldn't monetize the shit out of it. I didn't even mention fashion souls. If you don't know what that is look it up and tell me cosmetics don't affect the enjoyment you can get from a game. As for the whales? My biggest concern is that it isn't just people who have more money than sense. It preys on vulnerable people who have mental health problems and shopping addictions. It's pure evil when it comes to that. Those people need help and the triple A video game industry has done absolutely nothing to help. I guess I'm just a fool who actually has empathy for other people. Especially those who are vulnerable. This isn't an attack on Flats. I enjoy hearing what he has to say about Overwatch and I can tell he wants this game to be the best it can be. That's the part of criticizing some people forget about, it's ok to criticize something you love and want better from. I'm always interested in having a legit conversation about this kind of stuff because it is important and I don't want it to infect anymore than it has.
oh also its funny to me that the guilded mythic extra costs 20prisms but its actually just an uglier, more basic looking color palette lol. rating it on looks alone, compare it to a Paladins golden mastery skin and see how amazingly reflective the metal texture is. and you get those for simply playing the champion
12:55 the problem with whales is that big game dev companies have realized that they can make a lot more money from whales than they can from f2p/low spender players this results in devs catering games towards whales and not f2p and low spending players (which are the majority of gamers) making gaming especially in those new games a less fun experience compared to other games. This is an especially big problem in the mobile games market with games like gacha games and base building games being big there. Sadly if you look at the statistics mobile games are actually the highest earning games and as a whole make more money than console and pc games combined.
Flats having to constantly pause to make excuses for Blizzard is honestly sickening hes so dependant on overwatch for 90% of his income that he cant just call out blatant horrible monetization for the absolute over priced garbage that it is.
This isn’t fair at all. He has criticized Blizzard to no end regarding OW2, tank balance, etc. Flats always tends to play “Devil’s Advocate” and tries to usually look at both sides no matter what.
I can't speak for anyone else, and I dont even play Overwatch, but what makes me mad about whales isn't the whales themselves, it's the manipulative psychology involved in getting those players hooked. For most it's less a matter of "I would like to spend $80+ on a skin," but rather "I need to spend $80+ on a skin because brain stuff" and there's little they can do to resist it.
it would be cool if they added something like the gilded aspects as a hero mastery thing instead of it just being yet another thing you have to pay for...
People are complaining about the price, but the free battle pass you gets you 600 coins. That means that 3 out of 5 premiun pass can be earned without paying.
Good lord has this dude not change over soo many year's lol This dude is still flip flopping on both side. Be careful with streamer that talk like this.
I liked being able to earn the skins in overwatch 1. I would rather buy a game and earn things than get a free to play with 40$ skins and more hackers.
28:40 I been saying a similiar thing since season 3 and I am convinced overwatch 2 is slowly gonna turn into paladins at least if we stay on the 5v5 path. Make hard counters less and less till their gone, give heroes multiple playstyles with talents (Paladins also have minor stat changes u can do with their card system on top of the major talent you choose) and have the game be a hero shooter deathmatch (which we already have pretty much since 1 tank and now everyone heals passively)
Make a Mobile game? Basically, already is. Several currencies, tons of FOMO, store front being the main push, a handful of characters being favored for skins over the rest of the cast, a huge focus on selling skins over balancing gameplay, all that's missing is it being on a mobile device.
@@christianrolls8902then you literally just expect too much dawg idk what to tell you. You want 5 heroes a season with 3 new maps? The rate we get heroes is amazing compared to ow1
@@KikiCatMeow it’s your opinion, not here to debate just stating what I and many others think. It’s clear most of the resources go to dumb skins. Have a nice day
I doubt you'll see this but: The problem with whales is they spend money regardless of whether it's a smart idea or not. They enable companies like Blizzard to charge whatever they want. Take the D4 DLC. Blizzard has a prediction of how many people will buy the ultimate edition, no matter what. They then calculate how much they need to charge for the ultimate edition in order for the normal edition numbers to just be extra. so it looks like this: Make a DLC normal valued at 20 dollars, and would make a profit if 25% of the current active player base buys it at 20. Charge 90 for the ultimate edition, each whale is now worth just shy of 5 purchases. so if 5% of your player base is whales, you're just shy of the 25% mark you need to hit to make a profit. You then charge 40 dollars for the DLC, cuz you're confident that enough will sell to get you over that 25% mark. if 10% of the 95% left of the playerbase buys the DLC at 40, so 9.5% of the total playerbase, then you make the equivalent of selling the DLC at 20 to 19% of the player base. which brings it effectively make money as if 40% of the playerbase bought the DLC at 20 dollars. so because 5% of us were willing to spend 90 dollars, 95% of us were told "buy it for 40 or GTFO." This is why people hate Whales. They fuck over everyone who isn't a whale.
Would have rather paid 40$ and kept all the free to play trash out of the game than to have f2p model that makes the game a skin collector simulator. Then maybe matchmaking wouldnt be so horrid. The entire IP has become a cash grab since trashactivision became involved. Saw that coming.
What would I have wanted from WoW collab? Mercy Jaina Proudmoore Junkerqueen Garona Rammatra Gul'dan Lifeweaver Anduin Wrynn Junkrat Fandral Staghelm Ashe Alleria Windrunner (Maybe this is too similar to Symm's bloodelf skin but idgaf)
Also, I think this the end of the line for me when it comes with Overwatch 2, Honestly? BO6 is wwwwaaaaayyyyy more fun the OW2 despite, let’s be honest, a similar team death match focus.
@15:03 I think the issue too is if the majority of the products become "oh this product isn't for you, it's for the whales" when does it finally become "oh this game isn't for you, it's for the whales" and sadly people just fire hate at anyone when they get emotional. Watched it happen many of times in the MTG world...
I remember when you'd spend money on a game to support it, thats how I see it with free to play games that aren't pay2win. It's always an option here. idk about spending money on ow2 rn until some chanegs happen, but dota 2 and when deadlock has cosmetics, I'll be spending; obviously valve doesnt NEED my support but It makes it feel alright to spend money on the free game.
flats it doesent matter you can earn 80 prisms through the pass. even if you dont have to buy the prisms directly. the issue is the fact they think they should cost 80$. it doesent matter that you dont have to buy them they SHOULDNT cost 80
"if you dont like it you dont need to buy it" Also will mock people on stream while watching replays if they don't have mid skins/ does skin checks lol thats a bit of hypocrisy my dude.
@@WindReiter10 I mean, i dont really, but also lets be real about this. There straight up are kids who were made fun of in Fortnite for using base skins and shit for a bit. For younger people who are super impressionable it has had an effect before. Now I dont care much at all. but yeah, when streamers and people who young folks drawn to F2P multiplayer games look up to do fit checks, it will push SOME people to make those sort of purchases. Im just saying its a bit more nuanced than "if you dont like it dont buy it, who cares if the pricing model is predatory"
@@spacepope7867 Dog there are purchasable skins in OW that are dog water and free skins that are absolute 🔥 your whole argument falls apart right there.
Just remember....the only issue with lootboxes was you could buy them. ALL they had to do was make them a free earnable thing from just playing only. And they decided to just throw the whole concept away for greed and look how far they ran with it lmao. I tried explaining to people mad about skins in the Diablo 4 shop that it's a live service game and that if they didn't have additional income we wouldnt have servers, dlc, employees to work on server issues etc. Basically got ran off of a group page on FB for pointing out it's how all live service games work so there's no sense in being triggered theres an item shop for non influential items. (I even said I didn't like the prices either but it's only because enough people were willing to pay it but somehow that = me justifying/excusing)
the problem is that you didn't need to be a whale to support OW1.
I 50 lootbox pack for $40 a year I felt like I contributed MASSIVELY to the game, as if I would've bought the game a second time, and I got rewarded with 200 random cosmetics that I mostly didn't own thanks to the duplication avoidance.
$40 only gets you 2 measly skins at most. Its not good value and I don't feel like I support the game with it when there is $2000 "worth" of stuff released every 8 weeks.
without the constant pumping of these kiri and mercy skins excluding this season we won't be close to how we are now believe it or not a lot of funds come from the suppposed"whales"
@@Bad3abdul I can't believe this. There are supposedly 20 million active overwatch players. I can guarantee you, 75% would buy skins on the regular if legendaries would cost $5 instead of $20, giving Blizzard 75mil profit on each skin. Whales would buy even if the price would be a bit more affordable so millions more would buy the skins. Making the game this expensive is literally self-sabotaging
The game itself was $50, so spending that much on skins doesn't seem crazy to me since it's free to everyone now. I bought ow1 twice, and no one called me a whale for spending $100 on it 😂 you can still get "free" skins like we did with the lootboxes, you just have to play and you will earn coins to "buy" them. It's not a random award after xp now, it's awarding coins for that xp you earned so you can go specifically get whatever you want,, instead of for example grinding to get a loot box only to get a few things like a spray voice line ect of heroes you don't even play or the stuff isn't even something you want.
that simply can't be true, there are supposedly 20 million players for this game. There is no way it needs to be this greedy and rely this heavily on the 0.1% of players that buy everything for it to be profitable.
They were so proud that the game made $100 mil in its first financial qourter. They would be making that weekly if skins would be $2.5-$5 dollar in price instead of $10-$20
@@Ohyoucaughtme thank you
The problem for me, is that people (whales and the vunerable), are paying more and more, and yet we are getting less and less. What happened to getting value for money?
The game is free to play......
The battle pass is 10 dollars and you get a lot of that back if you play all the way through. 80 prisims per season for 10$ or less to spend on mythic cosmetics. Most people only play a few characters (devs have confirmed this), and also only buy cosmetics for those few characters. So unless you have to have everything or play many different characters, most people will probably end up with lots or extra prisims and nothing to spend it on at some point down the road. The cosmetics pay for everything else in the game that is FREE for everyone, so this hysteria around the monetization is somewhat overblown. It's not perfect by any means and some things could be better for sure, but people like to overreact...
@@Richard.P Even free to play games use to not cost this much
@mattevans4377 The only thing that costs money is optional cosmetics (in a first person game btw), many of which can be obtained through a relatively cheap batle pass. I would argue that some of the paid only stuff might or might not be worth the price, but to each their own. You also have to consider that game development across the industry has gone up a lot, and I believe there are more people working on this game than before it became overwatch 2.
you've never had to give blizzard your credit card to fully experience overwatch 2 (excluding the sad remains of pve). it's literally infinite value. $0 for (potentially) 1000s of hours of play time. if the servers shut down tomorrow the core base game will have still been of infinite value since the cost to play a fully fledged live service multiplayer shooter was free for however long you enjoyed it. with a model like that there is very little room to complain about eking out any more value than is sustained by the whales. games like this rely on the backing of exorbitant spenders, and since the devs have kept it honest by not selling power or advancement (bp tier skips can be argued though) i really cannot fault them for trying to sustain the value they are providing us for free. they can increase prices to whatever level they feel they need to and it will change my buying habits but that's not tantamount to my feeling towards the game and my past (and current) enjoyment of it
@@Richard.PI paid 60$ for this game you absolute dumbass…
I've always felt the "Cosmetics don't affect gameplay" to be a bad defense because for a lot of people cosmetics are the reward you build towards. There's a reason they sell them for absurd prices because people want them because getting a new skin is fun. It was fun to farm weekly golden coins in ow1 to get a new legendary I wanted. It gave me something to build towards that I specifically wanted, where the BP is now filled with stuff I don't care about. It may not directly affect gameplay but it directly affects my enjoyment of the game.
people that argue cosmetics don't affect gameplay are not looking at things realistically. They are strictly comparing the two in a vacuum by removing all the context of how everything actually works in the real world. Your absolutely correct that cosmetic MTX undermine the progression systems of the game and remove rewarding gameplay features by earning those cosmetics through actual gameplay.
On an even broader scope cosmetic MTX has changed the entire landscape of games, does no one ever ask themselves how a company is able to pump out dozens of high quality cosmetics on a monthly basis but yet it take magnitudes longer for them to develop content or fix issues with their game. Its simple there are far more devs working on cosmetics because it is what makes the company money and far less working on actually developing the game and fix issues. If actually making the game and making sure if functioned properly was the thing that made the company money you would see significantly more effort and man power put into that side of things.
I think when people say that all matters is the gameplay, they're wrong. i think the best example of this is MK1. the gameplay in that game is a good as ever. but the game's playerbase plummeted because the only way to get any worthwhile rewards is essentially through a gacha system or a shitty store. and so in the match to match gameplay you'd get nothing frlm your hard earned win besides satisfaction which isn't enough to keep a playerbase.
the satisfaction of winning and improving isn't good enough now and days. you need somekind of incentive for players to play and a worthwhile reward when they do
@@grimsdol4665 that's not what this is though, that's the ranked ladder lol. people are not spending $20 on a skin to feel accomplished, that i assure you. skins are literally just cosmetic and a weird status symbol. it's so weird to whine when you can't afford something that's a want or don't think something is worth X$ - like, if it's too expensive just don't buy it. i don't get it.
@c_nn_r298 because it's still a piece of content. it's still some kind of reason to keep playing. the fact of the matter is no matter what game it is. players will quickly get bored of the gameplay loop. so if you want players to keep on playing, you'll need to give them a reason to play beyond just the gameplay and if you'rea F2P live service game you really, really need em to. if you want example just look at Overwatch patches towards the end. most players stop playing because they don't have a reason to keep playing. even if the gameplay is fun they've done it Thousands of times already. and now they get nothing out of it
"Paid Cosmetics dont matter" mf when they see games entire monitization built off of cosmetics. Obviously they DO matter to a lot of people and they're apart of the reward structure. They're what you hype new updates around. They're what you sell in battle passes. Cosmetics all being scummy to get doesn't make it better because they're cosmetics.
20 dollars for a recolour is crazy, so blizzard is saying that a mythic recolouris worth 2x more than a battle pass, wild
yep, the pricing makes no sense other than corporate greed gone wild tbh
@@alexparaskeuopoulos4169 not to sound like I think your point is totally invalid, but is $10 not enough to buy you a battle pass, in which you not only gain 80 prisms, but also the 1000 coins needed to purchase the next battle pass as well? If we're being a bit practical, or cynical, $10 is probably enough money to buy you every battle pass, and every mythic skin, as long as you don't spend the coins elsewhere? Though I do believe this current battle pass does not include enough coins to purchase another, so maybe they changed that, or my memory of the rewards is faulty.
aspects cost 20 and aren't even a level, it's just a colour, so you wouldn't get any more customization for that extra price tag.
20 FOR BLUE????!!
@@The_LightArrow A fellow connoisseur of the AJS, I see. "...ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!?!"
$20 for a shader, what is this the Destiny 2 Eververse shop?
@@rationxlity Man, that's worse than D2, at least there $20 gets you a full set of ornaments. This is some D1 chroma bullshit.
But ? Just don't buy it lol
Revenue Analyst here, Blizzard is not very well informed on their own KPI's (Key Performance Indicators). They are overly focused on the pricing elasticity part of their business model (what's the highest amount of $ you can get for an item before too many consumers say its not worth it, and that higher price actually negatively impacts your topline revenue #). Elasticity is important, but they fail to understand the lifetime value of their players (LTV = value gained from a consumer over the life of their engagement with your product - this could be direct purchases in game, merchandising, or word of mouth marketing). Sure you can get 5% of your player base to pay $26 for a skin, but for those 95% who don't buy it, those players effectively experience no new content. When most of your content is wrapped up into your skins, and your skins are out of the price range for the vast majority of your player base, you've suddenly sped up the rate at which you lose engagement. That is why Fortnite prints money, they understand that the value isn't in the $ amount of the individual transactions, the value is keeping those players engaged at reasonable prices for a longer period of time. The revenue of that model typically nets out higher over time. However, the money could even net out the same over time or lower, but you would have a more favorable view of your product, which is important because your NPS (Net Promotor Score, which puts people into buckets of Promoter, Detractor, or Indifferent) has a direct connection to the success of your future endeavors and your overall brand loyalty. Once you lose trust with your consumers, you have less excitement for whatever comes next. Blizzard looks at this through a very simple lens which is, what's the highest revenue # we can achieve this quarter and this year? That has a cost.
You dont even need to be an Revenue Analyst to understand this and thats what makes it so painful.
Thank you for putting your input on this, I like seeing more technical explainations for things that just seem so dumb to me, if only blizzard would change their ways for the better, this IP could be SO SO MUCH bigger than what it already is
You just explained a 2 sentence answer in the most verbose way possible.
I appreciate your expertise and the well reasoned point
They have literally converted me from a person who would blindly buy any of their games to someone who hasn't spent a single dollar in years.
I think thwe whale argument isn't the fact that they exist, it's the fact that more and more games are catering to the whales specifically. Another problem is then people who are susceptible to predatory market practices can get swept up when the company goes whaling
Agreed. The minority of people who buy everything are kinda ruining it for everyone else. But at the end of the day it's Blizzards fault.
If skins were cheaper I would legitimately buy more. I've skipped a lot of skins I genuinely liked because of the price. But players like me just aren't their target audience... Which is sad because players like me make up the majority of their playerbase.
@@AgentDigits I don't like whales due to the reinforcement of bad business practices. Why would a business stop doing something if they make a ton of money off of it?
@AgentDigits it's not Blizzards fault. Their a business they go where the money leads them. Its the fault of the Whales who buy no matter what controversy or decision Blizzard makes, they buy everything up. So Blizzard caters towards them because their money is always guaranteed. There's a reason for the saying vote with your wallet. If whales stopped buying everything up for a month or 2 Blizzard would start shifting their practices and ideas real quick.
Devs say vote with your wallet, the majority does but whales override that. Happened to Apex Legends and that game is dying.
@@soloalpaca5772which is why it’s justified to blame the whales. They’re the root problem, sure they’re just enjoying themselves, but not knowingly, the harm the experience of other players.
I hate when people go "You don't have to buy them" like bro stfu what if you wanna buy them? It shouldn't have to cost you an arm and a leg to get a skin you like.
Exactly. I don't have a problem with buying a cool skin to support the game I've been playing for 7 years per se, but 20 bucks is asinine.
It's even more annoying when same content creators judge people on skins they pick while watching replays.
And here I thought skins didn't matter, so why flame someone over picking mid skin?
the people that says ''don't buy it'' shows their ignorance.
The only way I think prices are going down is if other games have their prices go down as well
@@You_are_wrong99lol some of you guys have a problem you don’t want to address with microtransactions. Some of you guys have 100s of skins and still clamor more for giving extra money to a multibillion dollar corporation. Not even Just Overwatch players but dang. Is it really that hard to just not buy it?
Skins besides collabs shouldn't be 20 bucks.
Agreed. The vast majority of skins are not worth the price... and the majority of players are only gonna buy skins at the current prices if there's a lot of effort put into them.
And OW typically only puts vast amounts of effort into skins for very specific characters. *cough* Kiriko *cough*
Agreed, but I'll also die on the hill that the Diablo and WoW (also Starcraft, I never see those skins and forgot) collab skins should not have been full price. No money changed hands for licensing purposes, so there's no reason we should pay full price for self-collabs.
It's a weird hill to die on, but it's my hill.
Especially in a hero shooter where skins aren’t universal.
Skins besides collabs should be earnable in game.
It would be understandable if epics are 5, legendaries are 10, and mythics are 20. But recolors and epic skins disguised as legendaries just so that they can price them up costing $20? 👁️👁️. Also, maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough, but it seems like nothing in the shop really goes on sale either.
There is a problem with "the trailers being good" because it means the animation team are spending all their time making ads instead of making animated shorts or a TV show.
Blizzard and Microsoft don't seem to realise the best ad for Overwatch is the animated shorts, that is what got so many people into the game in the first place.
btw the content in the bp has gotten smaller due to all currencies taking up slots (prisms credits etc) and there’s still souvenirs in there like.. shadez made a good vid on the topic
Not just that, but the amount of tiers that contain more than one reward went down as well. In previous seasons store currency usually was paired with things like banners or voice lines
There's only two souvenirs this season. In the early seasons there were 8
And people dont even give a shit about these. So not only are they pointless, but now we cant even get as many pointless things as we used to. Its a joke, their battlepass value is rooted in Mythic coins to the point where they will stop putting them in there because people just buy the battlepass to get them and thats it.
The promise of PvE is like a bad ex. You NEED to move on in order to improve, but you cannot forget it was there
Imo it's like watching you friends fawn over a horrible man and then he gets arrested before he can disappoint her lmao it was a trash fire idea
Id liken it more as being with a cheating partner. They say sorry I'll do better and you want to believe them but know it's probably a really bad idea but you've spent so much time and effort into this that you cant
@@OhyoucaughtmePvE was a trash idea? I’m just trying to clarify that’s what you’re saying
or hear me out, they could have not launched ow2 and left us with ow1
@@DRUKENHOBO that's like saying "I should've never dated them". Although true, focusing on that isn't gonna make things better going forward
Flats trying to gaslight his stream into not complaining about high shop prices is crazy! streamers are whales by definition btw. Flats never fails, having 3 decent takes followed by the largest L take
The number of OW currencies in current use would make gacha games blush.
Look at Apex they have 5 currencies
we aint there yet
Not Diablo Immortal
@@datninja4737 ow has 6
@@datninja4737 coins, credits, comp points, legacy comp points, mythic prisims, owl tokens.... I'll even let the last one slide, considering it's being phased out. That's still also 5 currencies.
I’m surprised nobody mentioned Overwatch’s Twitter post about Kiriko’s “grippers”. Talk about Blizzard not respecting themselves
Here's the thing, taking advantage of the whales means raising the prices for everyone else.
Prices of what? The game is free.
@@BeforeThisNovember obviously he means prices of skins, troll.
Not going to lie, probably wont touch much of Overwatch after Marvel Rivals is released
Cap
real
Easy to quit OW when all your friends quit for Deadlock like mine. Deadlock is just so much better. No bullshit no skill supports like Mercy or Juno to ruin my games
@@johnsonspark171*Mercy* is your biggest problem hero in overwatch?
@@BananaWasTaken Right? Hating the moth more than than Kiriko with her everything-bottle Suzu and insane ult, good healing and insane damage is wild
They just sold a $90 mount in WoW yesterday, so yeah Blizzard is both greedy in WoW and Overwatch. It is just out of control now and people are buying this stuff up like candy ruining the experience for those of us that would rather reserve our money for other things. When I was growing up you bought a game for $60 and had it forever. Now its all live service garbage with tons of microtransactions, but they just really rename it to macrotransactions at this point
Skins are the only meaningful progression system that Overwatch has, you can’t get better gear or beat a hard raid. That’s why having them locked behind a paywall feels so bad.
Good point. Fortnite nailed it with their system for this exact reason.
And it’s not like window shopping for stuff you can’t afford, we used to get this stuff by playing for free, and now they locked it out with the release of the “2”. It’s like buying a house, and then later down the line, 2 of the rooms are locked out.
Not competitive? The big gamemode in ow where the better you get the higher your rank?
Finally, someone who has a fair argument.
@@basedbasil9261no you got it for 50 bucks
Flats is wrong about "why people get upset about the whales in overwatch 2", the problem with big spenders on Overawatch is that it leads to certain heroes getting more attention and love from the devs than other heroes which in turn means that they'll be more likely to get collaboration skins like Rein, Kiri Juno etc. When this happens it can also affect the decision making when it comes to balancing the game, it's no surprise that Ram got a major nerf not being able to pummel through shields right when Rein got his new collaboration skin. They don’t want Rein players to buy a new skin if they won't be able to play properly against another tank that will force them to go back to spawn and change. I see people comparing the skin topic with Fortnite but the difference is that the skins on Fortnite aren't tied to any gameplay aspects whereas on Overwatch the skins are tied to characters who have different interactions and input in the game so when certain heroes are more popular and getting skins it will eventually lead to unfair balancing on behalf of these "whales" in the game.
basically overwatch devs are catering more towards whales and less toward the general playerbase.
yes, and they reworked sombra that fast in order to sell widow's mythic! like cmon, this rework is shit, they didn't even thought it out carefully, they just harshly nerfed her
I really don't think the game is balanced around skins. If that were true mercy would be hard meta but instead she's been mid at best for like 4 seasons
@@Martok2309 I'm not saying the game is primarily balanced around skins but you'd be stupid to think that the skins don’t have ANY influence on what balance is put into the game, like someone else mentioned, Sombra nerf right before widow mythic and how I stated that Ram got a major nerf directly correlated to the release of Reins collaboration skin. These can't be coincidences that Reins biggest counter and Widows biggest counter both got hard nerfed at doing their jobs against said characters just in time for their respective skin releases.
@@pyrocumuluscloud that would explain the nerfing of heros hp to I been seeing alot of widows in my games . Compative and quick play .
Crazy how I can buy some really good games on steam for less than 10€ when they're on sale, but blizzard expects us to pay 80+ bucks for a fucking useless cosmetic
To anyone watching this, before you buy a skin, go play hollow knight beginning to end for $15. Then realize that experience, according to blizzard, is worth less than a single fucking legendary skin. 3 legendary skins are worth totk, or BG3, or GoW Ragnarok.
It’s like u said tho, it’s a USELESS cosmetic, there isn’t any need to buy it other than if you the player like the quality of the skin, I don’t understand the uproar when they’re just cosmetics and not like skills or weapons that change gameplay ect
@@jbslump Because skins are the only form of "progression" that exists in the game. Because having skins in a game constantly engages in psychological warfare by making players jealous and therefore want to spend money (watch the "lets go whaling presentation", they literally talk about this being one of their main tactics is just wearing the player down). Because there's no need in charging $20 per skin when you could likely sell 4x or more skins at $5 and therefore break even. Because these items are basically NFT's in which you actually own absolutely nothing, you don't even have any tangible good by purchasing it.
Those are just a few reasons, give me a day or 2 and I'm sure I can think of more. And don't say "well just don't play the game", that isn't a defense in any way it's purely just deflecting and admitting that it is problematic. I mean it's not wrong, but it's not an actual argument.
@@darcidious99sure, if you’re so weak minded you “HAVE” to have a shiny skin that YOU don’t even see while playing the FREE game.
Of course there’s skins I want, but guess what. I don’t buy them because I tell myself it’s just a game and a skin effects me in no way at all.
Doesn’t change my gameplay, doesn’t gain me more respect. Just makes me think, briefly, that some random nerds I’ll never speak to or even meet, MIGHT think “that looks cool” for a brief moment.
@13:32. The reason to be mad at whales is because they encourage more greedy practices. If whales spend more money on practices that are greedy, it encourages the company to do more of the greedy practices. OW is not at a point like Genshin or Honkai: Star Rail where the base game has amazing content for everyone at the base. It's PvP has made people very decisive, and besides PvP content, OW is just skins. The content is kinda lackluster. Therefore it doesn't justify the greedy practices. But when whales spend money, regardless of the quality of the game, of course people would get mad.
dude forgot you need to build a good game first and then do whale hunting after you hook them on what they give you.
@pippo17173 he forgot that a game needs to appeal to not just whales but the normal people. At the end, he was talking about it's unfair to compare Fortnite and OW. But fortnite actually made a good game, kept renovating and improving it, and paired that with greedy practices like the collaborations. But no one will care because fortnite keeps making their game fresh and doesn't make promises it can't keep.
For someone who rarely plays overwatch now a days the talk about mythics confused the fuck out of me xD, dont waste ur money lol
Mythic skins or mythic weapons! Cause blizzard wants you to buy both 🤑
@@gatowololo5629you’re only supposed to buy the ones for characters you use. Not a single player in this game actively plays the entire roster of heroes to the extent they NEED the mythic skin. That’s why the mythic weapons even exist; it gives people who don’t like the hero who got the mythic skin a second chance
You can argue that prisms cost too much (true) but that’s literally only because they’re trying to get you to buy the battle pass instead
@@KikiCatMeowpredatory mechanics are predatory mechanics, and there are people who do absolutely play the entire roster (maybe not well but still). The currency isnt there to drive you to the battle pass, its there to obfuscate the true value of the product. Paying 3000 gold coins for a skin doesnt sound like a lot until you realize it's $30, then it sounds a lot worse. If this WERENT a predatory mechanic, then every skin would have their value displayed as real world currency so players know exactly what a skin costs or doesn't cost... So why have 3 or 4 different currencies? So the player gets confused and just buys as much as possible.
They want pricing to be confusing because they don't want you to think while making a purchase, they want you to mindlessly purchase and move on to the next purchase. This is how the live service market works, all of this is explained in the "lets go whaling" presentation.
@@gatowololo5629 and the mythic weapons skins are so bad, i cant believe they charge prism crucks for them
Flats, gonna have to disagree on the current cosmetic system 'not affecting the gameplay'. It does. Not on a moment-to-moment basis, but a long term basis.
If I bought Overwatch back in 2016 and played regularly, doing my arcade boxes and event boxes, I could have gotten every cosmetic available normally. All for the $60 entry.
Now, if you were to start a fresh account, you have ZERO chance of collecting everything in a timely manner. If you want a regular stream of rewards, at the same rate of old Overwatch, you have to pay $10 a season, and every collaboration costs almost as much as Overwatch did at launch. Everything that could once be earned is now behind a paywall.
but the game isn't behind a paywall simple
@@Bad3abdulthat's......not the point.....omg 😭
@@Bad3abdulDid you even read his comment, like at all)
@@UNUSUALstrangeVINTAGEgenuine look before the game OVERWATCH was behind the paywall and everything else was free but now those stuff that were free before are now behind the paywall and the game is free this better environment
@@Bad3abdul i had a stroke reading this bs
Overwatch needs to cut skin costs by a MINIMUM of 50%. I'd advocate for 70/80%, cause I will NEVER pay overwatch a dime when they have yet to make me want to play the game solo.
To me, I think the biggest issue with whales (at least in Overwatch) is that they set the bar so high for pricing compared to what the average player is actually willing to pay, and it lets Blizzard get away with gouging as much money out of them as they can while leaving everyone else just shit out of luck.
Agreed. I mean Blizzard doesn't even give us 1000 coins in a Battlepass. We only get 600. And they only added that in the last few seasons.
It's kinda crazy. Fortnite literally gives you more V-Bucks than the cost of their battlepass. Their battlepass is INSANELY good value. Overwatch's isn't, because you aren't even guaranteed to get skins for characters you even play.
The store and prices suck but honestly, the battlepass isn't much better. Especially since 2 of the battlepass skins are locked behind and "Ultimate bundle". It's ridiculous imo.
"Well informed" yeah because they actually play the game before they do the review, it's not only pure opinion. They are just as fair with WoW, too. Their most scathing reviews of changes in WoW often are followed by "did the devs even play the game/changes they made to know how bad this sucks?"
OW2 has so little new content that new skins are a big part of what is exciting about the game. Yes, this is the sad state of OW2.
I didn't mind the battle pass, but all the best skins have moved out of bp. I'm not paying $20 for a skin. So what do i have to be excited about?
Thats the problem with the "skins are optional" argument.
Well Flats thinks that "skins" are "content" and rates events based on them as a priority.
"Doesnt effect gameplay" is kind ofna myth, overwatch has an insentive to make popular characters more skins, BUT also keep them strong
Thats why sombra got blasted as soon as widow got mythic
Thats why kiri will never get her suzu changed
While I do understand the whole "you don't need to buy them" argument, I still wholeheartedly hate it. You simply cannot pretend that customization isn't a pretty fucking big part of the game, and the fact that it costs your estranged billionaire grandfather's inheritance to buy the googolplexth Kiriko skin released in a goddamn month is just really fucking tiring.
Sometimes it feels like they aren't doing these macrotransactions to fund the game that they are making, but to simply milk the ever living shit out of a feature that is meant to allow players to express themselves.
honestly put the mythic skin back at tier 80, keep the mythic prisms in the battlepass, bring back the unlock challenges for mythics but make it better. For example, you can still do the challenges a season later just as long as you got tier 80, and make the challenges like the cute and pixel spray challenges. Like you have to do that character specific challenge to upgrade the mythic.
Blizzard will always start by trying to be as exploitative as possible when it comes to monetization, and then community has to shout them down until they make it a little bit more fair (I.e. Heroes in battle pass, etc).
Price wouldn't be a problem if the value proposition was good.
Fucking Paladins offers more complete skins than OW. Custom effects, new voice, etc. Basically a mythic. Fortnite has a back cosmetic, pickaxe, glider, multiple cosmetics in a pack you can use with other skins.
I’m ngl this was some of the worst takes I’ve ever heard out of flats about monetization, the free battle pass is something that existed before Fortnite, “it doesn’t affect the gameplay” is such a bullshit argument, “and they gotta make money somehow” does not excuse 80$ skins and YES THEY ARE 80$ THE BATTLEPASS GETTING ONE DOESNT COUNT
Given everything with PvE I already have a bad taste in my mouth spending money on OW. The greedy monetization is the nail in the coffin, since it's clear they don't value having good will with the community.
Also, stuff like the "grippers" Kiriko tweet just makes me disgusted.
For those of us who didn't play until a couple of seasons ago. There is no hope in getting all the mythic skins I want without spending hundreds of dollars
Even though you dont have to buy skins we shouldnt let these companies get away with predatory and scummy monetization practices .
This junkenstein game definitely has the bones of some of the planned pve skill trees. More pulling from what is left of that and it's pretty fun
Simple, Mr. TH-camrs the whales increased the price for casuals, which mean casuals can buy less because everything is overpriced
Flats, you asked why whales are hates, here are the reasons:
The encourage the worst monetization possible, as the monetization is made around whaling. The monetization becomes centered around squeezing every last cent out of you. You example with lootboxes, they have REASONS to now make lootboxes drop less so whales buy them.
20 EUR skin are crazy in OW already, but it can become much worse.
Whales are the reason P2W exists. In many games I played, MMOs and so on, were ruined by whales bying power.
Is there a shitty mechanic tied to monetization in the game? The wales are 100% at fault.
The irony of this reaction video is sadly not surprising
I love how Blizzard snuck in an extra currency. And as predicted continues to monetize it. And OW2 fans bent over and accepted it
Flats asking the question at what point do we move on from the broken promises and failed premise of Overwatch 2 to focus on a better game and new direction is an interesting one with a proven answer. No Man Sky. No one cares about its launch anymore or broken promises. Its devs stopped giving promises and just worked on the game, releasing more and more actual CONTENT for the game to the point they have surpassed their original promises and have made a game worth investing your time into.
Overwatch 2 is only really releasing skins. The balance is the same problems as always, it took an entire community begging for them to try anything different like 6v6 overall. Its less when do we move on, and when will these devs actually do Anything to make us not think about what could have been.
No Mans Sky is an interesting case because at this point I think its trying TOO hard. I constantly see updates and now I kinda feel bad.
Blizzard should have realised that longevity exists when lore and characters are loved.
When people love the story, characters and the world are loved; the money will follow.
Impatience and business men kill creativity.
Theres only so much ass a man is willing to pay for.
Overwatch 1 goes free to play with good monetization system ❌️
Release Overwatch 2 disguising as one former self and ruining everything good what your past self did ✅️
as much as i agree with a lot of flats opinions, he can't deny there is quite a bit of copium in some of his views on overwatch, just my opinion
What a lot of people dont realise about Whales (and why IMO milking whales is bad) is that a lot of them dont have good self control/are addicted and cant actually afford to spend all the money they do. Thats way more prevelent in games with gambeling mechanics but also still happens in games with more direct or purely cosmetic mirco transactions.
Yes, whales fund games but getting a lot of people to spend a little bit instead of a few people spending a lot is a way more ethical way of funding a game that could be done pretty easily but just dosnt alway make the most amount of money possible, and the CEOs yachts and cars arent gonna buy themself.
6:24 if they wanna push the limit of customization, they should've fixed hanzo and Orisa mythic skin
17:19 “Overwatch wasn’t the star of its own birthday” tells you everything you need to know about this game.
I’d like to point out that the team of 40-60 that created OW1 raked in a BILLION dollars the first year of release. They kept a very solid yearly profit and then rebranded to “OW2”. Now there’s apparently 400 people working on OW2 and it’s maintaining 225mil which is a ton. Average Salary for an Overwatch dev is 72,800 a year, so to feed all 400 of their starving artists it’s 28 mil a year. Short answer, they’re doing fine and they’re not even remotely struggling to break even. Skins really don’t remotely have to be this much, and OW1 helps show this
The fact you have to overly explain prisms should be a crime in itself. I'm still confused, but I'm not a skin collector.
Being able to earn all the skins was one of the biggest selling points of Overwatch to me. Now I feel like my time is being completely wasted not earning anything. The gameplay has always been flawed but the ability to earn all the cool’s skins they were releasing kept me around ow1 till the end.
Now?… give us money. That’s it. Or grind our trash 5v5 experiment for months to earn a bp. A bp that shrinks. They tell me I have more choice in this game but only make select skins earnable in the bp and events.
Probs just going to end up leaving. Even with the return of 6v6 as much as i preferred that format. Don’t need to see all the cool shop skins and collab skins that I’ll never get to own.
Seriously, it’s a video game. If the price of some optional, cosmetic pixels gets you this emotional, you need to fix your priorities.
I’ll preface by saying, yes there’s some expensive skins I want and would probably buy if they were cheap. But they’re not cheap, so I move on and forget about it.
Guess what I else I want that isn’t cheap? A Ferrari. And I won’t own one of those unless I pay their price.
It’s a free game. COMPLETELY FREE TO PLAY. Not only that, but there’s plenty (and some great) skins that you can buy with in-game currency you earn by playing (so again, FREE).
Skins don’t effect gameplay. They don’t gain you respect. They don’t get you more e-girls. YOU don’t even see them while playing the game.
There comes a point where you need to analyse your priorities and desires.
“But I want to collect the skins”. Why? No really.. why? Because that gives you a sense of achievement? Again.. priorities. If you want to collect something, at least collect something physical that holds value, instead of some pixels that you don’t even own.
It’s just a game, guys. Optional cosmetics are in a video game should not hold a single iota of importance to your life. There will be a day, way sooner than later, you’ll regret caring so much about such irrelevant things.
How’s your Mom doing? When’s the last time you gave her a hug?
Im really sad. For me the glory of Overwatch was the animated shorts, the lore, the pve gamemodes, and the fact that they killed all of that is just depressing. I am a big fan of the cosmetics and the competitiveness too but without all the other things it has really made me enjoy the game less.
"Why do people have problems with whales?"
Because they create the goal for the live service mtx developer.
It inherently makes the devs think "We don't care about what the majority players think, we should cater towards high rollers" when at the end of it we're all playing the same game.
What they've done in Junkenstein's Laboratory needs to be implemented into core OW2, but with some tweaking.
First off, not having it be Halloween themed, obviously. Second, a mix of role and hero-specific talents would make it more accessible, such as Mercy's +10% healing talent being available for *all* supports if they desire to have it.
The balance needs adjusting on many of the talent cards, and the RNG element needs to be removed.
Instead, have all tier 1 talents available to choose from at the start of a match, then gain access to all tier 2 talents in the next round, and so on. Power scaling is equal for everyone. Would need to figure out how to do this for non-round game modes like Push (maybe have the players go back to spawn to acquire them when available, like when the Push bot reaches a checkpoint?).
Talents are exactly what OW2 needs to remain fun and engaging, especially with other games on the horizon already stealing players from it.
im gonna say it. Cosmetics matter more than the gameplay in Overwatch. Because what is ACTUALLY getting people to come back and keep playing again? It isn't microbuffing Orisa for the 17th time, it isnt playing against Mauga, it isn't support queues, its the events that give cosmetics and other items.
10:48 Ball is my favorite tank and bizzard made the mistake of making all of his purple tier skins really good. I dont have to spend mich to be satisfied.
I don't agree with the conclusion that the grand vision of what overwatch was supposed to be, was murdered in favour of a skin shop. We all played the Invasion missions, and they were... not good. They were genuinely terrible. Awful would be putting it mildly. The vision for Overwatch PvE was nice, but the reality wound up not working at all. So now they're just trying to make the most (money) of what they have after the original goal fell apart.
I would like for them to attempt PvE again, but it has to be something along the lines of the raids from Destiny. It is rather bizarre to me that Blizzard inspired Destiny's raids with WoW, but then Overwatch didn't get inspired by WoW and make raids too (when their shooter literally has MMO trinity baked into it, and every aspect of the game design is focused around that.) Instead they made some really weak, bland story missions inspired by Left 4 Dead. Some of Overwatch's more interesting team moments involve almost PvE style mechanics, like dodging Bastion's ult, dealing with a Bob, finding Torb or Illari's turrets etc. These are similar to what you'd see in a raid, more mechanics based rather than shooting tons of AI in the face over and over, but the latter is what Overwatch's PvE went with, rather than cool boss fights with interesting mechanics.
One of those rare takes where I don't agree with Flats. Saying it's not that bad when many of us came from Overwatch 1 is crazy. As someone who spent money on loot boxes a couple of times in the original game. It never bothered me. I felt good knowing I could earn things in the game itself, and it never really felt bad dropping a little extra to support the game and maybe net a couple more items I wanted to use.
I used to love doing achievements to get unlocks on champions I loved playing. I enjoyed that every 3-4 games I got a loot box giving me that little dopamine rush wondering if I will get something cool for my main character. You wouldn't always get something you were excited for but getting anything at all felt nice and every once in a while, you would get a hit and be super excited to load up the next game and try it out. It made you want to keep playing.
You had cool events coming out all the time. Maybe you took a break for a while and heard a Halloween event was coming. Everyone would come back to the game excited to see the new stuff. Ready to play hundreds and hundreds of hours to access a skin they saw that they specifically wanted out of the event.
Now we have an event, and everything is behind a paywall. You log in and if you got it buy that 1 cool item you wanted day 1. You have nothing to work towards and no reason to invest time playing to get said reward. You get burned out easier and it gives you less reason to want to play.
Now we have a system where you cannot earn anything in the game. It just feels terrible. Even with the battle pass which is "Good value" you need to pull out your wallet. They are selling thing's at absolutely wild prices. When you can buy Elden Ring and it's DLC for the price of a single skin in OW at some point you should be disgusted.
Riot has the same model more or less. However, they aren't pillaging their player base. You can spend 20 bucks and get yourself 3-4 skins you like. What are you getting for 20 bucks in overwatch? An 8 year old skin? 3 sprays? 2 emotes? You have to spend upwards of 100 dollars to get anything someone might actually want.
As someone like him with plenty of disposable income it will probably not feel like that big of a deal. Someone like him who already has thousands and thousands of items from playing OW since S1. Think about it though. He has spent thousands of dollars on this game something most of us will not do and feasibly cannot do. So, what the solution is just be rich and Overwatch is fun?
Think about it from a new player perspective. Someone like me I have hundreds of cosmetics, sprays, icons, gun skins, and all hero's unlocked from playing the original game. I can customize all the characters in the game from playing the original. Any new character comes out and I only have to look at 1 character at a time to customize as they release. Imagine you just start playing today. You have literally nothing! Then when you try and see how to maybe get 1-2 cool items for a character you've been enjoying. You just see this glaring paywall in front of you. Everyone else is running around with really cool things. Meanwhile it can take you months just to earn a single skin from 8 years ago on one character. You got all these people yelling at you to swap picks in games, but you only spent enough to make one character the way you like them. You constantly have to switch mid game and feel bad because you are sitting on a base character because it's for the good of the team.
Sure, skins are cosmetic and don't give you an advantage in the actual game itself. However, who wants to sit there and see 9 other people who are all unique and expressing themselves while they run around on their base character with 1 voice line unlocked. You are basically made to be an outcast and if you want to fit in you need to cough it up.
People always say the game isn't growing. Well yea because people who try the game out see how far behind that they are. They do not want to push to have even 1/100th of what everyone else does. You have a broken game that is rarely balanced at all. Everyone else has amazing things unlocked that you cannot get to unless you drop thousands on the game. You play a whole ranked season to earn literally nothing. Even events now don't give you anything. We have 2 events rolling currently all you can get is a couple of sprays. Not even a gun charm.... Sprays that nobody uses other than maybe in spawn for 10 seconds waiting for a game to start.
Greed is by far killing this game. You are literally blind folded if you cannot see it.
Nobody is talking about this but for the previous anniversary events you could buy previous shop skins with legacy coins and for this year they didn't do that, you had to buy those skins with normal coins. That is such BS.
as a destiny player i can tell you that these companies dont always if the majority of ever use the money whales dish out for the game everyone loves. bungie was in fact using alot if not most of the money destiny was making to support other projects... that got scrapped anyways... im not saying overwatch is doing that but it is blizzard/ microsoft we are talking about.
Plus whales aside mythic or not i dont think a skin should ever cost more than a full fledged game. or even 2/3 of a full fledged game. in the case of the battle passes. and in regards to the battle pass. take into consideration the time and labor it takes to complete said battle pass if you dont buy pass tears. that has a value that blizzard is well aware of on top of the 30 to 40 dollars you spent on the pass unlocks. all so they can "support" a free to play game by buffing orisa and mauga and nerfing rein and ram for some reason.
People hate the whales because they continue to feed awful greedy practices that everyone has come to despise in the gaming world. Where everything is focused on absorbing as much money as possible from everyone, while barely putting forth much effort/content into the product.
Every season that passes feels exactly the same cause it's just a refresh of the battle pass. There's no hard tangible content, just adjustments and "come spend" events.
If they were smart, they would've gone all out and finished the PvE and kept building on it. Bet you ANYTHING it would've done super well. Especially in a game that people are clawing to the skies for more lore and getting nothing...
Elden ring was made by 300 people, overwatch 2 has a 400 person team, how is that adding up?
Blizzard PR should hire flats at this point
People cried about the Overwatch 1 loot box system (which was the best loot box system I've experienced in any game) and now we have this, I hope those who complained are happy. Would you rather earn a bunch of loot boxes for free, stack them up, and at the end of the week open them all up but maybe get a legendary for a character you don't play too often every week or so, or complete two seasons just to have enough free coins to buy one legendary skin you want, which will roughly take you almost half a year?
The problem people have with the Devs catering to whales is that it's the developers actively choosing not to make the game experience better.
The proof of this is simply the fact that the Battlepass exists; regardless of what you problems you may have with battlepasses (which largely mirror the same problem) having the premium battlepass does make the game experience better by giving you a semi-longterm goal and rewards that time. At least a battlepass gestures at exploring a design space that gives you a better time, and expensive skins in the shop don't do that. Particularly for the non-whales who main characters who don't get many skins to begin with, seeing constant shop updates and collabs just make it feel like the devs are spending no resources on making your experience better.
If you play Fortnite, most of these issues are completely alleviated by the simple fact that every season (often less than that) you can actually see the amount of money being poured into the games development.
I'm normally a big Flats supporter and think you spit facts, but my boi just spent 3 minutes doing mental gymnastics to justify the mythic prism prices. If that aint a shill move idk what is, cmon man.
Whales affect 2 things in competitive games.
1. Which heroes get more skins meaning lesser heroes cuz theyre not as popular won't get new skins as often.
2. Hero Balance. They have to make sure the heroes they sell skins for are meta viable and dont make the whales feel bad for playing them.
When whales buy skins, 5 dev's get let go and 5 marketers replace them to find more whales.
Its just a fckin recolor and it's 20 dollars
Remember when everybody had the same arguments about loot boxes in OW? "Waahhh lute boxes are sooooo bad". Well this is the result. Be careful of what you ask for.
We went from a bad monetization system, to a really bad one.
One thing does not become suddently good because another is worse.
@@nova_steric1749 id argue the lootbox from ow1 was great, you will eventually be able to buy a skin you want, even if it takes a while, better than spending 20 bucks i guess
@@nova_steric1749 It wasnt that bad tho. I had everything I wanted without spending money. I bet you had a lot of great stuff too. What have you gotten in overwatch 2 without spending money? Maybe a recolour in a specific event at launch? That reaper skin?
@@scotttimbrell8632 the only good thing is that lootboxes back then weren't supposed to make them money. If that system would've been applied today, it would be the most vicious predatory system there was, since it's tied to gambling in some sense.
So no, lootboxes are not the way. They are not good, and will never be. Look at apex. You need to cycle 500 lootboxes to get a mythic cosmetic. And people are all in for them. It's ass.
4:04 the thing is, at some point you don't move on anymore, you don't keep playing. At some point you just stop playing because they can't keep getting away with scams like these
18:54 Took a lot of work my ass. They spent years focusing on only pve pouring resources into it, you can bet they have way more of this shit stashed up and ready to go. I'm betting that literally all they had to do was the UI for the perk selection, making control point a best of 5 instead of 3, and some balance changes for the perk numbers and ult charges. All things that one single full time indie dev could prob make test and finish in under 2 weeks.
Don't get me wrong, I love the gamemode too, but I think justifying the lack of content in other areas of the game with the excuse of this gamemode taking a lot of work is delusional.
It's funny how they canned PvE in order to focus more on PvP, but then they don't even get the PvP changes right. Cosmetics are given to interns to recolor and Mythics have barebones customization, and most the time feel out of theme.
I'll say it again. There is no reason why the Mythic skin need to have tier unlocks. The only value it holds is allowing a player to play with the skin early at its base model . Its highly doubtful that any player would only purchase a Mythic skin for its base aspects alone. The player is unable to purchase freely which customization they would like and must so do in sequential order.
Get rid of the unlock tiers and make it one bulk purchase. The unlocks are not earned through conventional game play mechanics they are bought with currency obtained via the battle pass or by additional purchases. It would be another argument if such tiers where unlocked for free via game play such as winning games or getting eliminations/Assists with certain abilities or ults.
In a practical sense though this is just worse. Lets say you want the tier 4 unlock for the skin, right? You need 80 prisms for that unlock. Whether you buy the base+tiers or if it’s bundled, you won’t get that tier 4 until you already have 80 prisms. It’s the same amount of time regardless
Now let’s say you only want, idk, the tier 2 style. With the tier system you only need to spend 60 prisms, but if it were bundled you would still need to spend 80 prisms even though you don’t want the extra options. It forces you to all-or-nothing with expensive, limited currency. Now that aspects are a thing, that 20 prism difference is HUGE
Making the mythics a singular 80 purchase does nothing for those who want the styles faster and actively harms those who don’t want the higher tiers
@@KikiCatMeow If i can get vouches of player who have indeed chosen to not unlock the full set there would be some volatility to that argument that I'd have to consider. For now I'll explain my stance in more detail it might be a bit of a read.
As it stands it feels merely like the artificial process put in place to create a sense of 'pride and accomplishment' since you have to unlock the skin's options in stages by means of purchasing it. That is the part I don't like. As it feels fake and implemented simply to take extra steps to psychologically push a player to spend more since they already unlocked some they might as well unlock all of it.
Recently Xbox gave away 30 prisms to those players who play OW2 and have an active Gamepass account. This giveaway came out just before the new gold mythic skins were announced. Its 10 more then you need for one gold skin, but it is also enough that if you buy the 40 dollars to get the 50 prism bundle you'd have 80. Its there to push the player into either spending them and be left with 10 causing them to have to spent more to even it out to 80 prisms or spend the $40 bucks to get the 50 prisms to make it enough to unlock everything in a set. There is nothing that comes out to exactly 30 prism that can be bought for that amount in its entirety beyond the three additional tiers of a mythic skin after the base skin that costs 50 prisms has been purchased.
It reeks of a marketing ploy that is designed to put the player in a purposefully designed and implemented inconvenience that incentivizes them to spend money in a predatory manner. Blizzard could have just as easily gave out 20 prisms to allow a player the freedom of choice to spend it on 1 new gold skin of their choice to give the player agency over their desired unlock. Or even straight up gave away 80 prisms flat out to allow a player to either get a Mythic skin that they missed out on or to save for one that will out later.
Giving away 30 prism was a deliberate choice by those in charge of implementing that give away.
I am well aware an accept that OW2 is free to play and they have to make money some how and cosmetics is by fair the most agreed upon thing that players will accept are going to be monetized. But Blizzard doesn't have to resort to scummy marketing gimmicks that prey on the customer with digital currency amounts that don't add up to the purchases you can make.
I would argue that the customization does affect gameplay. Not in terms of mechanics, but mechanics are not the only way to enjoy a game.
When you play something like Elden Ring, for example, you want your character to look cool and fit your personality. I realize that the gear in games like that do affect stats but a lot of them allow you to keep the gear you like the look of but give you the better stats. A great example of this is Marvel's Spiderman (1&2) where each Spidey suit has a different skill and you can take the skill you like and transfer it to one you like the look of.
I mean, seriously, why do so many of us spend hours creating a character in something like Baldur's Gate III if it's "just cosmetic. It doesn't affect gameplay."? Because it does affect your enjoyment of said game. The way your character looks matters and these companies know that otherwise they wouldn't monetize the shit out of it.
I didn't even mention fashion souls. If you don't know what that is look it up and tell me cosmetics don't affect the enjoyment you can get from a game.
As for the whales? My biggest concern is that it isn't just people who have more money than sense. It preys on vulnerable people who have mental health problems and shopping addictions. It's pure evil when it comes to that. Those people need help and the triple A video game industry has done absolutely nothing to help. I guess I'm just a fool who actually has empathy for other people. Especially those who are vulnerable.
This isn't an attack on Flats. I enjoy hearing what he has to say about Overwatch and I can tell he wants this game to be the best it can be. That's the part of criticizing some people forget about, it's ok to criticize something you love and want better from. I'm always interested in having a legit conversation about this kind of stuff because it is important and I don't want it to infect anymore than it has.
oh also its funny to me that the guilded mythic extra costs 20prisms but its actually just an uglier, more basic looking color palette lol. rating it on looks alone, compare it to a Paladins golden mastery skin and see how amazingly reflective the metal texture is. and you get those for simply playing the champion
12:55 the problem with whales is that big game dev companies have realized that they can make a lot more money from whales than they can from f2p/low spender players this results in devs catering games towards whales and not f2p and low spending players (which are the majority of gamers) making gaming especially in those new games a less fun experience compared to other games. This is an especially big problem in the mobile games market with games like gacha games and base building games being big there. Sadly if you look at the statistics mobile games are actually the highest earning games and as a whole make more money than console and pc games combined.
There are a gazillion of mobile games compared to pc/console. I don't think the ratio it's comparable.
Flats having to constantly pause to make excuses for Blizzard is honestly sickening hes so dependant on overwatch for 90% of his income that he cant just call out blatant horrible monetization for the absolute over priced garbage that it is.
This isn’t fair at all. He has criticized Blizzard to no end regarding OW2, tank balance, etc.
Flats always tends to play “Devil’s Advocate” and tries to usually look at both sides no matter what.
I can't speak for anyone else, and I dont even play Overwatch, but what makes me mad about whales isn't the whales themselves, it's the manipulative psychology involved in getting those players hooked. For most it's less a matter of "I would like to spend $80+ on a skin," but rather "I need to spend $80+ on a skin because brain stuff" and there's little they can do to resist it.
it would be cool if they added something like the gilded aspects as a hero mastery thing instead of it just being yet another thing you have to pay for...
People are complaining about the price, but the free battle pass you gets you 600 coins. That means that 3 out of 5 premiun pass can be earned without paying.
Good lord has this dude not change over soo many year's lol
This dude is still flip flopping on both side.
Be careful with streamer that talk like this.
I liked being able to earn the skins in overwatch 1. I would rather buy a game and earn things than get a free to play with 40$ skins and more hackers.
28:40 I been saying a similiar thing since season 3 and I am convinced overwatch 2 is slowly gonna turn into paladins at least if we stay on the 5v5 path. Make hard counters less and less till their gone, give heroes multiple playstyles with talents (Paladins also have minor stat changes u can do with their card system on top of the major talent you choose) and have the game be a hero shooter deathmatch (which we already have pretty much since 1 tank and now everyone heals passively)
Make a Mobile game? Basically, already is. Several currencies, tons of FOMO, store front being the main push, a handful of characters being favored for skins over the rest of the cast, a huge focus on selling skins over balancing gameplay, all that's missing is it being on a mobile device.
Junkrnsteins lab is just some of the character improvement ideas they could actually come up with from pve.
I quit overwatch because I felt like they only care about skins. I want new maps and more heros every season. But no lets just sell mercy skins....
Either new maps or heroes come out every season tho
And the skins are even half assed remodels lmao. That should tell you how much they gaf about the whole game.
@@guttenraknes1060 not enough imo
@@christianrolls8902then you literally just expect too much dawg idk what to tell you. You want 5 heroes a season with 3 new maps? The rate we get heroes is amazing compared to ow1
@@KikiCatMeow it’s your opinion, not here to debate just stating what I and many others think. It’s clear most of the resources go to dumb skins.
Have a nice day
I doubt you'll see this but: The problem with whales is they spend money regardless of whether it's a smart idea or not. They enable companies like Blizzard to charge whatever they want. Take the D4 DLC. Blizzard has a prediction of how many people will buy the ultimate edition, no matter what. They then calculate how much they need to charge for the ultimate edition in order for the normal edition numbers to just be extra. so it looks like this:
Make a DLC normal valued at 20 dollars, and would make a profit if 25% of the current active player base buys it at 20. Charge 90 for the ultimate edition, each whale is now worth just shy of 5 purchases. so if 5% of your player base is whales, you're just shy of the 25% mark you need to hit to make a profit. You then charge 40 dollars for the DLC, cuz you're confident that enough will sell to get you over that 25% mark. if 10% of the 95% left of the playerbase buys the DLC at 40, so 9.5% of the total playerbase, then you make the equivalent of selling the DLC at 20 to 19% of the player base. which brings it effectively make money as if 40% of the playerbase bought the DLC at 20 dollars. so because 5% of us were willing to spend 90 dollars, 95% of us were told "buy it for 40 or GTFO."
This is why people hate Whales. They fuck over everyone who isn't a whale.
never realized how much prisms are on their own, i always just save them from bp
Would have rather paid 40$ and kept all the free to play trash out of the game than to have f2p model that makes the game a skin collector simulator. Then maybe matchmaking wouldnt be so horrid. The entire IP has become a cash grab since trashactivision became involved. Saw that coming.
What would I have wanted from WoW collab?
Mercy Jaina Proudmoore
Junkerqueen Garona
Rammatra Gul'dan
Lifeweaver Anduin Wrynn
Junkrat Fandral Staghelm
Ashe Alleria Windrunner (Maybe this is too similar to Symm's bloodelf skin but idgaf)
Also, I think this the end of the line for me when it comes with Overwatch 2, Honestly? BO6 is wwwwaaaaayyyyy more fun the OW2 despite, let’s be honest, a similar team death match focus.
@15:03 I think the issue too is if the majority of the products become "oh this product isn't for you, it's for the whales" when does it finally become "oh this game isn't for you, it's for the whales" and sadly people just fire hate at anyone when they get emotional. Watched it happen many of times in the MTG world...
Magic the ghatering basically. What a shit show.
Edit: i wrote this before looking at the end lol. This is so spot on.
I remember when you'd spend money on a game to support it, thats how I see it with free to play games that aren't pay2win. It's always an option here. idk about spending money on ow2 rn until some chanegs happen, but dota 2 and when deadlock has cosmetics, I'll be spending; obviously valve doesnt NEED my support but It makes it feel alright to spend money on the free game.
flats it doesent matter you can earn 80 prisms through the pass. even if you dont have to buy the prisms directly. the issue is the fact they think they should cost 80$. it doesent matter that you dont have to buy them they SHOULDNT cost 80
"if you dont like it you dont need to buy it"
Also will mock people on stream while watching replays if they don't have mid skins/ does skin checks
lol thats a bit of hypocrisy my dude.
Lmao no way you take the bronze roasting skin check seriously 💀💀💀
@@WindReiter10 I mean, i dont really, but also lets be real about this.
There straight up are kids who were made fun of in Fortnite for using base skins and shit for a bit. For younger people who are super impressionable it has had an effect before.
Now I dont care much at all. but yeah, when streamers and people who young folks drawn to F2P multiplayer games look up to do fit checks, it will push SOME people to make those sort of purchases.
Im just saying its a bit more nuanced than "if you dont like it dont buy it, who cares if the pricing model is predatory"
@@spacepope7867 Dog there are purchasable skins in OW that are dog water and free skins that are absolute 🔥 your whole argument falls apart right there.
Did not expect flats to know about honkai star rail or zenless zone zero LMAO
What? They’re both one of the most popular gatcha games, a lot of people who don’t even play gatcha games know those 2.
Just remember....the only issue with lootboxes was you could buy them. ALL they had to do was make them a free earnable thing from just playing only. And they decided to just throw the whole concept away for greed and look how far they ran with it lmao. I tried explaining to people mad about skins in the Diablo 4 shop that it's a live service game and that if they didn't have additional income we wouldnt have servers, dlc, employees to work on server issues etc. Basically got ran off of a group page on FB for pointing out it's how all live service games work so there's no sense in being triggered theres an item shop for non influential items. (I even said I didn't like the prices either but it's only because enough people were willing to pay it but somehow that = me justifying/excusing)