Does the Pendulum Kick Suck? | Fight Talk Ep. 5 w/ ICY MIKE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
- In this episode of FIGHT TALK, we go over whether or not the Roundhouse Kick from the Pendulum step is a viable option for head kicks! Icy Mike from Hard2Hurt seems to think so, but it's always worth the debate!
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Disagree with me? Send videos of your pendulum roundhouse to my insta! @sensei_seth
Sensei Seth you both make valid points. Seems more application of the circumstances with like you said preference. Watching mike do sidekicks is kinda priceless. He does have a good pendulum step.
Haha he does!
I totally agree with your final point, a lot of people suck at sliding with the kick so they try to supply with the pendulum step, and they end up telegraphing it
Donax Dona I couldn't agree more. granted my pendulum isn't very good. I prefer to use pivoting on the ball of the foot. granted I train kenpo karate so I don't do pendulum steps much/often. Mike makes valid points.
@@RenzDavis the problem with pivoting on one foot is that it's hard to keep the knee aligned with the hip and shoulder, if you're not aware of it you can go to the side with the knee and to the back with the butt so you lose reach ad accuracy. If one fixes this mechanic then he can pendulum, pivot or whatever he wants 😄
The look icy mike gave you when you the Pendulum step sucks was priceless lol
Hahaha pure shock
I think it's just surprising because, while it is not the most popular or common technique, it's still fairly well known and practised.
Y’alls chemistry is great... IcyMike is all hard and edgy and yours is sweet and innocent... there’s a buddy cop movie in there somewhere.. good stuff.
Hahaha like Kevin Hart and the rock?? 😂😂
Dooo iiit!!!
@@SenseiSeth *Big Kev and Da'Pebble
Please keep this format going, it's brilliant
You got it!
second that
I can see both your points because I use both the slide in kicks and the pendulum kick. I use the pendulum kick to work the angles. The slide in I use it to cover the distance quickly
Shawn The Martial Artist nice!! Good mix up
As someone who sits in the house wishing that they knew martial arts, I feel like I learned shitloads today. Love these technique videos with you two!
I think there is a benefit to telegraphed techniques, I think a pendulum roundhouse to the head into a side kick to the abdomen without putting the leg down can catch people by surprise. It's effectively a feint kick but you can follow through a bit to knock their guard to obscure their vision of the follow up side kick.
I learned that sweep thing mike did in Mauy Thai.
No such thing as a winning stance. And you gentlemen are right! It’s wrong on both occasions until it’s right on either!
"Is that in karate? DID I INVENT THAT??"
Oh, Icy Mike, never change.
It's too bad it's already in there. Seen it with some older Japanese schools. Still a solid discovery for Mike though.
Omg please tell me you two are teaming up. You guys have great chemistry
Renz Davis we’ve made a lot of vids together! Go through my collab playlist!
Sensei Seth I've seen quite a few of them mikes hashtag about sidekicks got me further down the rabbit hole. 😊 side kicks work. it's about making them work! they are my favorite kick.
Side kicks are dope 👍
Body types and personal style really come into play with these techniques. Both have bros & cons and one should practice both. I tend to find big guys like to slide as it allows for a quick burst with one motion while little guys you are always jumping around anyways like pendulum steps
I actually love the pendulum step but have been itching to try the skip you do with your kicks.
I tend to find it helps with both range, speed/momentum in kicks, and closing distance with an actual threat (like jabbing with the leg) on my way in. I think you have a fair point about people leaning back too much and then landing in a number of positions to correct their balance - I definitely do that with high kicks.
I have a combination i used in karate that i used for boxing too, i call it the "gazelle tsuki"... I do a tsuki walking in (my lead hand punches at the dame time my oposite leg becomes the lead turning ehst wss my lead punch into a rear power punch that has all the weight of the body behind it(up until there its a common tsuki) but then i leap similar to the gazelle punch... My rear foot goes exactly to where the lead foot is the other foot moves in the same direction making me stand to the side of my oponent while they sre still recovering from the first tsuki and i punch with the other hand at the dame time i land... I land in ny original stance with perfect balance with a punch hitting already and in position to throw anything else....
A friend of mine says it feels like fighting an anime character in real life... Because bybthe time my first punch is not in his face anymore im already on his side throwing another punch and gives this "teleportation" feeling
Nice! Very cool
I definitely enjoy your collaboration videos.
Thanks Chris 👏🙏
Hear me out coming from someone who trains with both daily.
Sliding for head kicks such as round kick , side kick & teep. From the front leg.
Slide for attacking the body with front and side kicks.
Pendulum step for attacking the body with round kick or even switching for the power. All depends on the distance.
Pendulum step for low kick round kick
Slide for low kick teep or side kick
Everything is a tool for a different job :)
Ive been practicing kickboxing for 19 years
ALSO pendulum step for head kick if you hide the step using a jab
I see the best pendulum kick being the JKD front pendulum kick. Fast and strong.
Great video as always. I do both but I'm no expert of course. For me the pendulum kick works better if it is preceded with a jab/feint to the face. The sliding kick works more like a poke for me because it covers a surprising amount of distance as you throw it.
I felt bad I was not subscribed. He makes great content.
Pendelum kick for feint, then the slide with the side kick. Follow with 1, 2 jab and right cross to the head as feint, then double leg takedown.
Love your comparing conversations. 👍👍👌👌
Looks like a matter of agility and practice. I think you both have valid reasons. Thanks for the video.
I also think your kick sensei seth has a way to be a nice fake out because it can change distance with minimal effort. It could work to get a opponent to fall into predictable patterns to exploit.
Dude you gotta doing the tutorial on the slide high roundhouse
You got it!!
Totes agree sensei. Love mike but it’s super important to learn the slide for lead lead attacks
👍👍👍
The method i use when trying to tighten up technique, is whatever limb is striking, gets removed, and you have to attack with the next joint. If practising the jab for example, instead of focusing on the arm itself, arm goes behind the back or wherever, the shoulder is now the striking area(practising maybe not in sparring, but i have tried it and its sooooo fun) Now that you have no extendable arm to gain power, you are forced to use the rest of your body, footwork propelling you in, hips and shoulders turning through etc etc. As mentioned above a fun game we used to do for the kids to build hips and leg strength was to hold a leg chamber for side kick, or square on knee shield, guards up, and with out hitting each other you have to hop the other out the ring, hips and calves will be destroyed but it is fun.
And to summarise the video the main takeaway has to be ol' reliable "Act on strengths, build up weaknesses"
4:41 fun fact shawn michaels the "heartbreak kid" tried to use his sweet chin music in a bar fight... it didn't end well for him
Hahaha really???
Lol probably telegraphed the hell out of it
@@marcusgingell3585 maybe even did the stomping thing beforehand.🤣
The reasons icy mikes pendulum kick looks so good is because his pelvis and legs are moving while his head level barely changes, so his center of gravity stays grounded . I think a lot of people when doing this kick bring their feet together and their head level goes high, so their not as grounded and disputable to a right hand.
Both of you guys made good points but I wish I was in on that conversation. The way I think about it when I teach or the levels to teaching a sidekick. When I teach people to do sidekicks I have them turn their back all the way. Most of the time they learn with their hands on the wall and their feet side-by-side. That forces the base for it to be pointed towards the wall which is the correct position as you already know. Starting from the middle stance level 1 would be stepping up with your back foot turning your back entirely chambering kicking rechamber etc. level 2 would be the pendulum or replacing the front foot with the back foot. when I teach it I tell them to step behind to ensure proper foot and hip position and then it gets faster like a skip. Level 3 would be the “slide”. It’s really more like a push though. You pick your front foot up first then push off with your back foot. People who haven’t done taekwondo or other kicking arts are going to need a lot of practice before they get it. The points that Mike made about keeping your body upright are all valid but those are things that are trained in class in kicking based martial arts. It takes a lot of hip strength and mobility which is developed over years.
I agree. I teach the pendulum kick (I call it step-up), but in sparring I do the slide roundhouse to catch people.
never throw the pendulum kick by it self. Always throw hands before, this allows you hide the skip/step and create a more powerful kick.
Example: Right cross to pendulum left kick.
That last sweep is definitely in karate it's hard to pull off but if u do it right it will be very effective 😂👌🥋
As all techniques should be 👏
you figured it out early. Its the target and timing. If you ignore above the belt it is good. The slide telegraphs but forces them to deal with the kick because your head is out of the way.
"for you gaming nerds" like you don't play games? man let it out, don't hide your power level lol
😂😂😂
I like these cross-over videos you guys are doing. You guys are good working off each other.
Especially since they always start from nowhere 😅
Its also a telegraph, thats why I switched to the slide in
Personally, I use the pendulum step if I plan on moving back to my original position but slide if I want to close distance
I just throw the lead leg turning kick without moving, cuz i think it should be more of a counter kick after slipping to your open side and slapping them in the face, unless theyre opposite stance in which case youd hit theyre shoulder
these debates are so constructive! :)
I agree 🙏🙏
That rear foot slide would definitely need to be adjusted for use with shoes!
Nice work
Thank you 🙏
I honestly like the pendulum step way better I feel like when you do the pendulum stepyou're in and out before he can actually attack you with that slide in when you put your foot down your right in front of him plus I don't feel the power on it myself so icy Mike I'm on your side
I love this! Thank you🙏🙏🙏
I say there is a tool for every situation/ scenario ... if you use a fork where you should use a spoon ..... you'll see the fork....as a crappy spoon
Hey late to the party, have you looked at any of Dan Lok's video's, he has one about Bruce Lee's Pendulum footwork, honestly in my opinion those video's only show static movement's and none in real time sparring. It's what I don't like about those kind of tutorial's, at least that guy Jeff Chan @ MMA Shredded shows the tech and then applied in sparring, same as Damion Trainor. I guess that caveat applies "To each of their own" lol.
I don't slide or step I just open my back foot. It definitely takes alot of practice and drilling though.
Pendulum step can cover more distance. Can definitely have power behind it. Just train hips.
The low pendulum kick works great for inside leg kicks (closed stance) put your lead foot down again to the outside position to avoid counter punch then cut an angle or use the loaded up the rear leg to round kick to the body
Agree pendulum is too slow and telegraphed for head kicks, you see a lot of JKD guys trying and failing to do this. The sliding kick is way harder to spot for going up high imo
I agree!!
Theorycrafting about the slide version. It could be argued that the pendulum step version is more stable. If you're thinking about slippery surfaces or something like that.
Well both kicks still carry momentum so you're better off kicking right off the bat. Less range, less chance of slipping and the least amount of telegraph.
Never thought about it but i never pendulum kick over hip height 🤔
Fair! Then it’s not as big of a deal
I would think that you're generating less power on that slide kick just based on where your plant foot starts, not to mention you end in a more vulnerable position. Whereas the pendulum ends in a better setup for other strikes, e.g. mix in a question mark or hook kick, use the pendulum as a feint, etc. I think Wonderboy probably has good insight on uses of both.
The Karate Slide doesn't have a power issue because all of the kicks are Snap kicks. Also, since Sensei Seth is a big guy, his side kicks will have his momentum behind them. The pendulum step is used in Muay Thai mostly for low kicks to the thighs.
Thanks guys!
Cole Saul-Milligan 👏👏
Have used both but know use the pendulum step more . both are good
👍👍
At the end that's a wing chun chi gerk move!
The pendulum roundhouse is popular with Jeff Chan from mma shredded. And it looks and sounds really powerful if you want to check it out. But again, using the video principal we are not him, so it might be different, but you can still check out how he rocks his body etc
Does he ever throw it to the head?
th-cam.com/video/a6R0_IXoDro/w-d-xo.html around minute 10. Well....it kinda is a trajectory to the head? I mean idk but when I watch his fight camp videos his pendulum kick is like, really loud and he kicks it kinda shoulder-ish.
bUt ThErE's ThIs other guy called ninja nate who although doesn't have sparring videos that I can find, is really damn athletic and have almost effortless pendulum kicks to the head
Ed:th-cam.com/video/ClfYe9Uly28/w-d-xo.html minute 1.06. Idk, you judge. I can't throw kicks or do tricking like you guys do so yeah just putting it there
He’s got great body mechanics, if he goes higher on those kicks idk if he’d still use that footwork, who knows though!
@@SenseiSeth damn you're fast
Master Seth and Master Mike
🙇🏻♂️
Midi Retro idk about Master 😂
@@SenseiSeth if master wong is a master you guys are grand masters 🤷🏻♂️🤣
The way I learned it is using it as a jab to provoke a reaction and setup the followup kick. In TKD it is a common technique. The step back is important too. You are in quick and out again. In TKD it is a probable easy point. In real fight situations I would not recommend it unless you know you deal a headshot or otherwise end the fight with that technique.
p.s: well if you are not flexible enough many techniques suck.
Great points
I have to say that I do not recall which I do. My sidekick sucks with lead (left) and I rarely switch sides.
could you do an analysis of how a muay thai style switch kick compares when throwing a lead leg kick
Mike "say it with ya chest!!"
My brain "SAY IT WITCHA CHEST LIL NIGGA"
Did anyone get any Tybo flashbacks with the right and left combo? Icy Mike is the best.
I understand. I don't, but I'm saying that I understand.
I've seen footage where Bruce Lee doesn't recommend kicking the head, it goes to the leg or body.
There is a lot more telegraphing with the step than there is with the slide
Seems like a pendulum step with a stomp or side kick is a better use of that footwork that a round kick
A question I had about these steps, is there something to be said for the fact that it works similarly to other footwork you are already using? So you can integrate it with what you're doing better? Maybe you are already sliding your feet more often so it works well with what you're already doing. Mike doesn't slide his feet a whole lot and plants his feet more?
Don't like the both of them as a lead-in to I assume a follow up attack , as when you face someone who knows what their doing it only takes a step to the side and a low kick or front kick or a hook punch to throw you off balance and start pounding on you during that transition period ... again in a professional fight where those micro-moments count.
If I have to choose I like Icy Mike's application better because he follows up with a hook to keep you in the pocket ( i.e. it's harder to circle around ).
I always felt it better to lead in with a snapping lowkick to the inside of the leg or a jab ... no telegraphing ..painful to your opponent and low risk for you
To each their own brotha! Do your thing
@@SenseiSeth I know man, didn't mean any disrespect... just an opinion .. on the upside I disagree with Icy Mike that sidekicks do't work ... a well timed one can be devastating :)
Martin van stein I didn’t take it as disrespectful 👍👍
That sweep thing that Mike does at the end I learned as an application to the "crane stance" from Chinte. I always thought it was a bad application and wouldn't work. Maybe I should experiment some more with it... See the following video, around 6:50: th-cam.com/video/EPBO4UpO8Kg/w-d-xo.html.
Interesting!
Sorry, I agree with you on this. The low pendulum kick sucks. Your version is superior: you still trigger the hip and can slide and retract [with better balance and MUCH greater power] while maintaining a firm base and not telegraphing the move.
If someone catches the pendulum kick and drives forward it would be ugly. Sometimes you are too kind. And I agree with your Bruce Lee comment as well.
Speed with poor technique is more effective [and still present] with a sound base. Granted, some people can get away with it, but they can also be more effective the other way if they are willing to put in the work. I think the Garcia example of his short hook is a poor one. He has great technique and knows his "speed" and range. It works because he uses superior technique [and subtle framing] in concert with his talents.
We should use what advantages we have and what works for us, but still be willing to learn and improve upon our natural abilities. Stopping short because it works "well enough", to me, is the wrong answer. "Well enough" means NOT enough.
David Williams pendulum step is way more effective for side kicks not round house techniques . The amount of power you can drive with a pendulum step into a side kick is insane
Also the pendulum step allows you to open your hips and turn your foot out on the side kick way better than sliding
I do it from squared off Muay Thai stance so can twist hips
Nice! 👍👍
Sensei Seth thx btw congrats on 7k
Probably good for if your chasing them and have to cover alot of ground
Mine is totally different. I hate both of these versions of the lead leg shin kick.
So it's a feint, gotcha.
Pendulum step works far more effectively for side kicks to the body and knees but wouldn’t use it for a roundhouse movement because it has no power. That pendulum entry is better for distance management in both kicking disciplines and boxing
Edit: I also think the pendulum step for side kicks is far better because you can open your hips and turn your foot out with a better economy of motion than the slide step. Slide step works better for roundhouse techniques but you’ll never ever convince me you can get more power on a side kick with a slide step than driving through the pendulum kick you gather more force and power with your chambered kick in the pendulum step and extension.
Idk, I still disagree, butttt that doesn’t mean it doesn’t just work better for you!! Do your thing 👍👏
Sensei Seth I respect your opinion and will practice it equally to see it can be more effective and add to my game. Tbh few years ago I didn’t even like kicking so I could be tripping. You make it look a lot easier than it is though lol
what do you think about the amount of distance you can cover with both steps?
Any chance you could do a video with emphasis on foot placement/pivoting for variation of kicks (side kick, turning side kick, round houses and making contact vs just drilling techniques and maybe some tips on chambering kicks as well I’m really focusing on both those aspects of technique and it’s hard to find good videos
Thanks for the vids and work! (Karate version of oss👊)
I always figured the picking up of the back leg was sort of a feint for a back leg kick and then a fast sneaky switch to a lead leg kick. Or is that a whole different thing?
Zero Blade that’s something different. The pendulum step is for closing space quickly, isn’t a fake in and of itself. It’s a footwork pattern, like a pivot or shuffle
Pendulum footwork is a core part of JKD. I have a lot of success with it, but that’s because I train it extensively
Head kicks as well?
Sensei Seth I definitely prefer leg kicks, but yeah, there’s potential for head kicks. Even Bruce Lee preferred low kicks, though. The high kicks were mainly for the movies.
Eric Arroyo true! Mostly theatrics
Pendulum step lead low kick into circling out then rinse and repeat mixed up with other quick attacks like jabs, teeps to score points to force the other guy to chase you to taeke back the round so you can counter is basically using the karate ethos with a muay thai tool set.
Keep resetting til you get the perfect engagement. Hell, back step and circle out, if the guy still keeps up back step while giving your back and just literally run to disengage.
Yes! My gameplan is legit. Suck it nak muay coaches. You're stand and trade tactics suck. "Hit and not get hit" beats the "take a hit to unload an even stronger strike."
Sometimes you can get stuck against a wall and stepping back and circling doesn’t work. I want to be good at everything
@@SenseiSeth if cornered, try to engage on your terms and then once the opponent commits to trading suddenly get on your bicycle and circle out while he's rooted.
MikeDrop TheGreat again, I’d like to be good at everything. The best way to do it is practice and pressure test
@@SenseiSeth to each his own. Tbh, what got me into combat sports was the dynamic and cool looking moves of a boxing anime(hajime no ippo) so I base all of my stylistic choices on which would be coolest looking. As dumb as that sounds.
On a related note. Anime is super popular in a lot of asia countries and a lot of fighters from there got inspired by anime. Make anime related content.
MikeDrop TheGreat absolutely! You’re allowed to have your own thing. I USUALLY would do what you said, if you watch more of my sparring stuff. However, I like to push the boundaries in controlled scenarios like these
I am high and just wrote a huge long comment... Then I remembered I am high n mf-er (real talk) so I wrote this comment instead. #Backwoods 👍🏾
Because Seth is a giant Mike is much sneakier
Your mate is correct.. Your incorrect... Step up kicks are a novices kick.. You don't see them in pro k1... Because they are telegraphic and will only work on novices.. The chamber the leg as you slide forward is non telegraphic.. But people like the step up kick because its easy... Its a beginners kick.. Ps.. I'm 38 training coaching and a former pro fighter
Did you watch through the end!
Icy Mikes shorts 🩲 your shorts 🩳
Alana Loken 😂😂
spicy vid
I mean you both got to the same conclussion and said you wouldnt like it for head kicks
9:39 Funny how people always think they're old when they're not. Mike ain't even 40 yet. In twenty years he'll be looking back on these vids thinking "man, I was quite young & spry"
😂😂😂
It's no joke getting older though. The way your body feels at 25 and 35 is a world apart. =)
I risk sounding boastful here, but perhaps I'm the exception, and not the norm. I'm in the same age group as Icy Mike, but I've never felt "old" even if I'm considered to be. I can't go without sleep the way I used to, but otherwise there aren't any significant changes from when I was in my mid 20's. If anything, I'm probably in a bit better shape now than back then.
I've always been something of a late bloomer, lol. Maybe in 6-7 years, I might have a different story to tell 😄
@@Groteskfull Oh for sure, people have different bodies and different "mind / body" connections which impacts their feeling of age differently.
Personally, at age 35 I've never been in greater physical or mental shape, but getting out of my "luxurious" bed in the morning is still a lot rougher than during my 20's, where I did absolutely nothing with my body and slept on a crappy couch. =)
Joe Rogan has entered the chat
If Mike thinks the side kick sucks, you can say pendulum kick sucks
Icy Mike is honestly overrated but he is right in this case.
i think seth cant do a pendulum step cause hes super tall, a pendulum kick seems better for smaller people
Work on basics then get tricky with it. Are you available to tell my capoeira mates that? lol
pendulum kick doesn't suck i think
I swear this entire channel is just bashing Bruce lee and jkd 😂
I think you have the wrong channel
@@SenseiSeth Ik icy mike said jkd isn't real fighting or something along those lines "It's just a game of tag". U guys bashed the shuffle lead roundhouse here, "Ur not a right hand Southpaw" "sidekicks suck" does this include the shuffle sidekick?
я не говорю по русски side kicks suck is just a meme lol. I don’t like the pendulum step very much, but I believe in that video we said Bruce could do it because he was so dang fast, and in movies it doesn’t matter
@@SenseiSeth what about the other points u made
What about now, post self defense challenge? I still don't get notifications except likes, so like and dislike if you answer please.
What if you traded them? Karate Step and Pendulum Slide? I've done Pendulum Slide before and while I haven't fully analyzed it, it would be interesting to see what the results are.