We are losing our ability to see the dark side There is a darkness surrounding the supreme chancellor Emotional attachments are a distraction to ( human ) Jedi so are forbidden ( to humans ) ( but are ok for others ) F- it what could go wrong ? The entire Jedi council basically
@@marcusblackwell2372Qui-Gon wasn't in the Council, and while Yoda, Obi-Wan and Plo Koon were the least foolish members, they never dared to challenge the Council's foolishness either.
If I was in Revan’s shoes, I would have done the same thing. Not betray the the Republic and turn to the Darkside thing but fight for the Republic even if it meant going against the Council’s orders.
If I was Meetra, I would have done the same thing she did, minus causing the genocide of Malachor V. Following Revan to war and returning to the Jedi Council afterwards to tell them they were fools and hypocrites to their faces and then stab my lightsaber into the stone in defiance.
@@deity752 Unfortunately that doesn't make sense because lightsabers have to have the button held to work I believe. Was still a cool scene though. However she has a stupid name.
It's so ironic. Jedi like Vrook Lamar swore up and down that the Revanites would fall to the Dark Side, and precisely because the Order kept them at arm's length and refused to give them the support they needed, it happened.
@@lanesmith1465 War is ugly. War is even uglier when fighting against an ancient Sect of Mandalorians who consider War Crimes a passed time. Revan had to play dirty to win and the sad part is, he probably got desensitized to the constant death from the Mandalorian Wars. Both the Revanists and the Order Loyalists were at fault. The Revanists acted too quickly and got corrupted by the War, while the Order Loyalists didn't do any investigating at ALL to see what made Mandalore the Ultimate start his war of aggression against the Republic. Didn't deploy Jedi Sentinels to learn more. Didn't discuss means of aiding the Republic in a humanitarian fashion. Instead they just...sat and watched and made themselves look like the Men in High Towers.
@@robertbarrows6687 You bring up an aspect I’ve not heard before. That Revan was basically too involved and the orthodox jedi not involved at all not even in line with their assessment of the conflict that something was amiss in the shadows. Which makes the entire situation even more of a shame from how preventable it was which is what I thought the Jedi are all about to foster life to flourish and feed the light side/ the force
@@watch50er Yeah. The Mandalorian Wars were a tragedy that turned actual heroes into villains since they didn't have the support from the people they needed. The Jedi Council airing on the side of caution could have been sensible if it had been actively assisting the Republic and non-Republic worlds with humanitarian assistance and investigating what caused the war. Instead Revan, Malak, and Meetra were forced to bear the burden of the horrors of war on their own with no support from the organization that basically raised them. It made the Jedi Order of after the Great Sith War into short-sighted cowards instead of wise Jedi who were doing what King Bumi of Avatar was: waiting for the right moment to strike.
@@lanesmith1465 you can't be redeemed when nobody allows a path of redemption. Revan almost assuredly would've fallen but by not offering him a chance they garunteed it
Upon clicking the video, I was prepared to write a comment on how this mystery jedi wasn't the biggest meanie and it was in fact Master Vrook; having watched the video, I feel vindicated
Vrook is like that Big Lebowski quote "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole." Because reprogramming a brain damaged POW, giving them just enough training to be pointed at the enemy with the hope they kill more of the enemy (and probably get themselves killed in the process), assigning a Padawan who is in WAY over her head to act as their handler and crossing your fingers and hoping this crazy plan doesn't detonate in your face has "I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" in lights bright and big enough to see from high orbit.
While that's indeed a loose cannon of a plan with a myriad of ways of things can go wrong, it still nonetheless beats what Vrook had in mind, which, like how he'd been dealing with major conflicts so far, was to just sit, watch & do NOTHING.
The only way the Jedi ever do, and ever could win, is through Deus Ex Machina. They are blind, ignorant, foolish, and hypocritical through and through. Jedi have few if any redeeming features.
He’s basically the manifestation of “One often meets their destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.” He feared his students turning to the dark side, so he was cold and unnecessarily strict with them, leading them to do so.
If the masters would have gone with Revan, they would have been there to prevent Malachore; their very presence from the beninging would have tipped the balance of power in the Republic's favour much earlier, and the drastic measures like Malachore would not have been needed. After that, they would have been privy to the star maps and could have investigated the mystery themselves, rather than having two hot-headed little shits do it with no supervision. That would have meant they would not have ended up getting in contact with the Sith Empire, or might have learned of it without drawing attention to themselves like Revan and Malak did. There would not have been a Jedi civil war to weaken the Jedi and the Republic, and they might have been able to get the drop on the Sith, or at least would have been in better shape to deal wih them. The masters did not take responsibility for the far-reaching consequences of their actions, and the entire order suffered SO hard for it.
To be fair even if the masters went with revan to find the sith emperor nothing would have changed since the emperor would have just killed the masters easily
@@revanruler6404 True, but they would likely have prevented Revan from going there in the first place had they been involved. I like to think they would have been that smart.
They probably could've averted the Mass Shadow Generator, but Revan and Malak still would've defected if they found the True Sith. Revan was the greatest military mind of his time, if he assessed that the True Sith were too strong, they were too strong. Probably would've caused a fight though.
The Jedi were still sort of recovering from the war with the Sith. Not to say that their decision wasn't dumb, but they had their argument. Still, you'd think they'd have realised that the Mandolorians would have committed genocides throughout Republic space, including the Jedi themselves.
That dude lived through the Sith War and probably felt Malachor V, that and the BS going on, on Tatooine, probably didnt help the poor man with his paranoia. Survival guilt and seeing buddies leave him to follow sith or just die to the sith forces probably messed him up to a point of compromise. Even first playthrough, without any other lore on him, I didnt blame him. I felt badly for him, but he seemed to just be scared of what he saw happen. Unfortunately, fear is a path that can mess you up in the Star Wars universe.
@Corpse Light - Your comment should be pinned imo. He was an F'd up a-hole in the game, but not without reason. A Jedi would have compassion for him; he was one screwed up individual, which made for a good antagonist in the story.
He is a perfect example of why you should control your fear and not let your fear control you. Acknowledge it yes, talk to someone about it absolutely, but never let it force you to do something.
"Vrook spend most of his time on Dantoinee where he was in charge of relations with local settlers." So it was the place where they sent incompetent masters to not mess things up!
Jedi are supposed to be flexible, understanding and humble. How was this guy *not* kicked out of the Jedi Order? In fact, how did he even earn the title of Jedi Master when he’s so obnoxiously fearful.
He was still fairly compassionate for non-jedi and was pretty skilled too. Plus, while stringent and a bit of a jerk, not very wrong. Definitely not so bad that he couldn't be a master
That's cuz the Jedi Order has long since ceased to be the benevolent order of Force-sensitive monks that they started out as. By Revan's time, the Jedi Order had more or less become a military order, & evidently, like typical military orders out there, they were far more interested in preserving themselves & the status quo, than doing the right thing.
@@mosorireayewale2820, another benefit to him is that he did not kill his padawan simply to prevent a prophecy from taking place. I think that seeing the various corruptions that occurred to masters and students during various wars likely reinforced his natural caution and acerbic nature.
The Jedi could really be assholes because they really don’t understand the finer things about relationships or emotions, and to the rest of the Galaxy they will appear like emotionless bastard that have a superior complex.
Hmm. Have to respectfully disagree to an extent. Many Jedi had relationships and knew what those emotions felt like. The thing is, they also knew of the pain and suffering that loss brings and the fear of said loss. For most people this doesn't cause bad things, but for force sensitives they can easily go dark side and cause unimaginable suffering on others afterwards. So I wouldn't say that they don't understand, but that many understand all too well. I do agree that, to everyone else, this could definitely make them seem like aholes
@@Nyx117a No, in the end, the Jedi STILL didn't understand enough. Emotions, like the Force, have light & dark sides to them. While they had been extremely privy to the corrupting influence of negative emotions, they were far too quick to dismiss what positive emotions could do to reinforce one's connection to the light. Things would have been REALLY different, if they had been as studious about emotions, as they had with the Force.
Vrook Lamar, was definitely one of the biggest jerks in galactic history…At least according to legends, but his attitude wasn’t his fault. His viewpoint was indeed shaped by the sights and events that happens during the great Sith War! As well as what happened with his strict teachings believing that, arrogance, anger and emotions lead to the dark side, and. Continued to openly speak out against those who in his eyes were falling to the Darkside. Sure he had the right intentions, but in the end he was blind to the fact that he was the cause of many of the. Jedi’s failing as his strong believe not to get involved in the conflict Ms of the wider galaxy 🌌 resulted in the younger Jedi rebelling and falling to the Sith’s many schemes…As well as being the main reason why he perished he refused to accept his failings that his actions were in the right and the Jedi did nothing wrong.
@Lokabrenna except they didnt there was nothing in the game or surrounding lore that showed this, rather that they were simply afraid of going to war again so soon.
@Lokabrenna even a broken clock is right twice a day. The man is like the people back in the 50s who saw commies everywhere. And he was wrong on fairly important matters. Revan saved the Republic (both during the mandalorian war and the Jedi civil war.) And suras was the one who would rebuild the Jedi and he was one of the people wanted to cut her off from the force. Basically he was the guy who said everyday that it was gonna rain today....and sooner or later a day would come when it would rain and he would point at it a go...see I told you so
@Lokabrenna ehhh you can make that argument I guess but as someone who has always believed the Jedi and sith are both wrong.(in my view they both represent extremes and extremes are bad, m'kay. Light and dark should be in balance with each other). He just seems like the kind of person that starts witch hunts. It can be argued that the Jedi screwed up revans whole plan to stop the sith empire(and made his last minute stop gap measure needed). See unlike just about every other sith in existence revan didn't "fall" he chose to go to the dark side. He saw the sith empire and knew the Republic was too disorganized and fractured to win a war with them and the war with exar kun had shown that Jedi in general were highly susceptible to falling to the dark side . So he chose to unite the Republic by force and If the Jedi were destined to fall then he would make sure they served him not the sith empire. It was his apprentice and the Jedi mind wipe that screwed that up.
Tackle this question. Why did the Jedi on Dantooine act like Malak didn't know about the enclave? They knew that he already knew about the place, but they continued to say it was hidden and act like the Sith didn't know about it.
Vrook and his contemporary masters (minus Vandar) are prime examples of the greatest flaw of the Jedi Order: they fear the Dark Side. Their fear is what led so many Jedi down the path of the Dark. The Jedi would teach you to be mindful and wary against the Dark Side, yet they only succeeded in fostering an environment of Fear of the Dark.
The Jedi Order never learned its lessons even after the establishment of the Ruusan reformation (which led to the era that we know), they became arrogant and complacent to the point that they deemed the Sith order extinct (which is not the case). They overstepped their role from a peacekeeper role to the more like an order that seemingly thought that they are always high above the peking order. It's for the reason why even way before the clone wars, people began to loathe the Jedi as nothing more than "Hoakey religion" practitioners. And it's for the reason why Palpatine used that fact to his advantage and made the Jedi order's reputation to the public even way lower especially towards the end of the clone wars. They were blinded by the fact that they were being manipulated right under their nose, and the testament on how good Palpatine really was in terms of politics and his connections with other politicians.
Lucas' biggest failure in the prequels was not adequately conveying to the audience how the Jedi order's downfall was largely their own fault. They had become too political, too self-involved, too stuffy, too conservative, and too comfortable. Palapatine was definitely a genius and there's no denying how he masterfully outmaneuvered them, but he did it in plain sight and right in front of them. He could've been stopped if the Jedi hadn't been so complacent and looking for an enemy that'd somehow be the exact same one from 1,000 years earlier.
Ah, the so-called Mace Windu of the KotOR era, and for a gruff and cynical man, he somehow was a really good Consular. May you rest in peace, Ed Asner.
It's possible that if the council members had been there to guide revan, malak, and meetra surik, and the other young jedi perhaps at least most of them wouldn't have fallen to the dark side and maybe they could have kept surik from losing her connection to the force.I could be wrong; as for vrook lamar obviously he had been through traumatic experiences with the great sith war and maybe that's why he was so hard on everyone so they wouldn't have to go through what he did. The jedi order needs to provide their members with a proper mental health care system.Vrook could've used some as well as jedi who came after him.
I don't know if anything could have stopped Meetra from losing her connection if the battle of Malachor V still happened. Maybe if the whole battlefield wasn't imploded but still.
Vrook had himself fallen to the dark side, when he lost the ability to admit his own errors and the errors of his fellow masters. His stubborn grip around his cynisism showed that he had lost a vital part of the light side, but as he hadn't yet gone so far as to only use the force for his own gain, he had become a grey knight. He certainly could not be seen as a Jedi anymore, let alone a master
They didn't, yet, they were going on in lightspeeds to it though, all they needed was a push. Fear of the dark side and not see attachment as a double edged blade is what lead to there deaths.
Kreia really was the best character in the old republic. Philosophically, she was right about damn near everything up until she fell back to the dark side at the end of KOTOR 2. She easily mopped the floor with those last 3 Jedi council members when they wouldn't come to their senses and realize how royally they screwed up. One of the best scenes in the games was her spelling out to them how they brought about their own demise.
@@Loe_Jist To be fair to Vrook, Zez-Kai-Ell, and Kavar, they would have slain Kreia if she hadn't weakened their powers with Force Suppression and meditated for five minutes (to gather her energies) before she revealed herself. As for her philosophy, it had merit but it was still flawed. She was wise and intelligent, but she had the very same flaw that befalls all Sith . . . arrogance. She believed herself able to kill the Force and desired to do just that. She decried the Force for being a malicious entity that fosters war and suffering, without accounting for the life and healing it has brought as well. She also did not realize that killing the Force would end the lives of countless billions and thousands of worlds. She had several points, but she was still ironically blinded to the good in others and of the universe and was just as incapable of forging a better universe as Vrook or anyone else in her era. One of the major points in KOTOR II is that everybody thinks they have the right answer(s) to a problem and never truly do.
I will point out that when Kreia stripped the force from the 3 at the end, they had a choice, if they had accepted the force being stripped from them and not try to grasp at the force desperately they would have survived, instead they refused to give up the force and perished due to their arrogant hubris
8:00 One of the things I felt was weird is there's a bunch of text about the enclave being a secret but Revan and Malak came from it so how is it a secret and safe location when they could strike it at any time they wanted to?
If we're talking about canon Jedi, sure. But prior to TCW, Ki-Adi-Mundi was kind and compassionate, and a talented Knight who ascended to the Council prior to becoming a master. Mace Windu was stoic and stern, but not unkind or oblivious. Luminara Unduli was a wise master greatly attuned to the Force. TCW ruined their characters by erasing everything good about them, just to prop up how the clones weren't at fault for anything. It made Palpatine not as clever either, if he was able to outsmart an incompetent Jedi Order. Exceptions are Filoni favorites such as Plo Koon and Kit Fisto. It's not so much that I mind changes, as much as those changes were crappy, and characters like Ki-Adi-Mundi weren't as well written in TCW. That show basically just took other people's characters and dumbed them down to prop up its own OCs rather than just writing them to fit into the world they would be a part of.
@@GM-kp7yw that's to be expected in a Sith, Jedi are supposed to be humble, self sacrificial for others, not proud or casting blame on students and not their teachings and beleaving they could do no wrong
Having never heard of Vrook before the video, my initial reaction is that he is the exact opposite of Luke Skywalker. Luke had (at least in the non-disney movies) an undying hope that there was good in everyone and that anyone could come back to the light and be redeemed. Vrook seems to have just the opposite, a never ending fear that everyone around him could turn at any moment.
"Vrook Lamar was pretty consistent in making bad calls ..." The amount of passive-agressive energy on that phrase is greater than Malachor V's echo 😂 Also, the death of Master Vrook remains as one of the most satisfying moments in all the Star Wars Franchise. You can hate Kreia for having a genocidal plan, because she has a strange ideology that clashes with almost every ideology we know or perhaps her cynical attitude and her critics towards all of Surik's actions, but killing Master Vrook was one of the best ways to gain likeability from the fandom💖
The Masters didn't even TRY to stop them from going to war. It's also believed that they didn't even try to explain themselves and their fears of what they sensed. But on the other hand the immediate threat still has to be dealt with.
He was a sith in waiting, so he doesn’t count, to put it. Simply, he was basically the Exar Kun of the prequel era, and it shows how far of the Jedi had fallen that all of the red flags he tripped were passed.
Just going by the thumbnail photo and word “asshole”, I just KNOW it’s gotta be Master Vrook Lamar at 0:00. EDIT at 0:38: KNEW it. No joke, I was assisting all the Masters in KOTOR II at nearly max light side alignment until I got to Vrook. I actually went out of my way to be a dick in his questline so I could kill him at the end. The rest of the council Masters found out and ragged me out of course at the final confrontation with them, but it was totally worth it.
The Jedi orders biggest problem was Yoda. No one Chan have that much power for so long and not be complacent at best or corrupt at worst. The Jedi can’t help the slaves of Tattooine, but they can help the slave masters. -Count Dooku. I don’t deny Yoda redeemed himself, but I can’t deny Dooku was right. Yoda may not have been the biggest a-hole but he certainly was responsible for all the other a-holes and didn’t hold them accountable or attempt to change them.
I think Atris is worse than Vrook because of the fact that she is indirectly responsible for the deaths of everyone on Katar. She acted without consulting anyone and truly believed she was more right than anyone else, to the point she wa calling herself the last Jedi despite knowing that there were at least 4 other masters. Atria was so stringent in her beliefs that she actually fell to the darkside because she was so bone headed and self-righteous.
Mace Windu is my top 5 jedi of all time. His fighting style, lightsaber, character design etc etc...is amazing for me. That being said, clone wara showed me side of him that I really hate: His ego/arrogance. When Ahsoka was framed there was a trial and Mace was among those that doubted her. That is fine, there was evidence against her. What I can not tolerate is that even after Barris testimony, instead of apologise to her or admit he was wrong, he came with the lame BS response of: It was a trial of the force or the force works in misteryous ways or some BS like that. After that.. I stopped liking him so much. Too bad, not being humble enough to admit he was wrong.
What I like about Vrook is that he clearly held sway over the whole council in KOTOR 2. Kavar and Zez were both on the brink of realizing the faults with the Jedi Order of their era, but once they were in Vrook's company, they began singing the same old tune and totally forget about their previous doubts. Vrook's arrogance was just that powerful.
Vrook always blamed his students for falling to the Dark Side, never once questioning what lessons they might have learned, and from whom, that put them on that path. He was the most toxic kind of teacher imaginable - blameless in his own eyes, and thus never able to correct his mistakes.
Fear is the path to the darkside! Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Tell me Vrook isn’t the embodiment of what the Jedi Council constantly tout as the path to the darkside!!
When of the curious things is when you use Force Sight in Kotor 2 and view Vrook he is just barley attuned to the light side just barely I always found that telling and I am also often very curious had Atris been allowed to interact with Vrook if the too would have fallen together and as Kreia said would have been terrible enough to admit it.
So, never having heard of this fellow this is my understanding. He watched a bunch of uppity youngsters turn to the dark side, kill their masters and kick off the Great Sith War, which resulted in mass death and the destruction of the Jedi Order's home world. He survived that and became staunchly opposed to allowing that to happen again. Then a new bunch of uppity youngsters decide to disobey their masters and go fight in another war, resulting in mass death and a wound in the force. Then two of the Leaders return as Sith Lords and wage the Jedi Civil War, killing even more Jedi. He then opposed the idea of brainwashing the leader of the enemy's forces to try to kill his former comrade, cause that plan could never go south. His enclave on Dantooine is then gets destroyed. The when trying to regroup, Nihilus, a being created at Malachore, which happened because the uppity youngsters didn't listen, shows up and basically eats most of the remaining Jedi. He puts himself into exile for a while and when one of the people responsible for this and leading the Jedi into the Mandalorian War shows up he doesn't agree with her. Why would he? Why would he think he was wrong at any point. From his perspective. Had the youngsters just listened to him, guarded themselves from the Darkside and not gone to war, all this death and destruction would never had happened.
cause that's his perspective, its subjective, hindsight is 20/20 but from the mandalorian wars the young jedi thought to follow what they were taught defend those who cannot defend themselves and stop people from suffering as that was Revan and Malak's goal in joining the war, but as war is brutal and Mandos are very skill in the arts of war ( from lore they were in essence the only faction of independent people who could fight both jedi or sith and win) they eventually fell, as Traya from kotor 2 said the war masked another war of conversion. further the player in both kotor games doesn't know Vrook's backstory he's just some jackass but in 2 you're trying to unite the masters to fully draw out the sith so they can be defeated but they make a bad decision of "wait and see" so they never could understand that if they were active in the wars rather than judging for when "the right time is" they might've been able to guide the uppity youngsters rather than them running amuck and then patting themselves on the back saying "called it". like you're trying to do some good and he's like *judgemental frown* "darkside" no matter what you do
What Vrook had been doing the whole time, was trying to clean things WITHOUT getting his hands dirty in the slightest. He'd been too much of a germaphobe to be able to deal with big messes, as the mere sight of such big messes effectively paralyzed him. He'd been unforgivingly critical about anything & everything that anyone would do to make things right, while being unable to come up with any workable solutions at all. For all his vigilance, he'd actually fallen, as he'd effectively let fear rule him. For better or worse, his utter refusal to budge due to fear had prevented him from outright falling to the dark side like Atris, yet it instead led to others falling in his stead. In a way, he was suffering from PTSD the whole time, yet he was too blind & stubborn to see that his unflinching wariness against the dark side, was little more than a foil for him being weak. What he needed was to admit that he was sick & he needed therapy, NOT a leadership position in a shaky organization.
Definitely telling that his force aura in Kotor 2 is significantly less lightside aligned than the other members of the council. The man feared the darkside in a way that colored hai own connection to the light. Cynicism is not a positive trait one should find in the highest members of the order.
She didnt drain the force for them despite her using the same animation for it in the game, she attempted to do what the Masters were about to do to the exile.
Vrook had good reason to hold the viewpoints he did, and had a legit reason for being so crotchety and cranky. But eventually it becomes obvious that he is using the threat and the danger of the Dark Side as a crutch, a convenient excuse for being so black-and-white, and having this "you are either with us, or against us" mentality. He absolutely refused to even entertain the notion that the galaxy existed in shades of grey, that things can and do exist along a spectrum.
That's the issue with almost every Jedi, they spend so much time looking at the light that they're blinded to what's caught in their shadows and they don't notice it at all
Vrook was the only master in Kotor 2 that made me wonder how he got his rank. Kavar and the others were reasonable and good despite the fact that they were a bit off in their views. Those were the ones that felt like wise and experienced masters.
If i were on the dantooine council I would have voted with Vrook on the matter of Revan. Not only was it dangerous to try and comtrol Revan but it was hugely immoral. The Jedi treated Revan as if he was a droid.
When you find out all the bad things that the Jedi Order did it's hard for me to even listen to them calling themselves right or good without laughing at the fact that they were not
When it comes to Reven, Malik, and the exile I can see why he should be concerned. I still definitely agree he was an "A" hole and seriously needed to lighten up.
![How Aayla Secura came SO CLOSE to Falling to the Dark Side [And What Stopped Her]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CAgKQ_UP8_Q/mqdefault.jpg)
*“I missed the part where that’s my problem”* - The entire Jedi Council basically
We are losing our ability to see the dark side
There is a darkness surrounding the supreme chancellor
Emotional attachments are a distraction to ( human ) Jedi so are forbidden ( to humans ) ( but are ok for others )
F- it what could go wrong ?
The entire Jedi council basically
😂😂😂
What if I offered you money, tenure, power, influence, and a sweet headquarters?
Not exactly all of them. Yoda, Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan were legit
@@marcusblackwell2372Qui-Gon wasn't in the Council, and while Yoda, Obi-Wan and Plo Koon were the least foolish members, they never dared to challenge the Council's foolishness either.
If I was in Revan’s shoes, I would have done the same thing. Not betray the the Republic and turn to the Darkside thing but fight for the Republic even if it meant going against the Council’s orders.
And then turning to the darkside and becoming a genocide? Because he also did that lmao
If I was Meetra, I would have done the same thing she did, minus causing the genocide of Malachor V. Following Revan to war and returning to the Jedi Council afterwards to tell them they were fools and hypocrites to their faces and then stab my lightsaber into the stone in defiance.
@@deity752 and then execute order 66 on them afterwards right? 😉😉
@@deity752 well the only thing that ended the war was Malachor
@@deity752 Unfortunately that doesn't make sense because lightsabers have to have the button held to work I believe. Was still a cool scene though. However she has a stupid name.
If ever there was a Jedi that just needed to get laid and smoke a DeathStick, it was Vrook.
Homie had balls bluer than a lightsaber.
It's so ironic. Jedi like Vrook Lamar swore up and down that the Revanites would fall to the Dark Side, and precisely because the Order kept them at arm's length and refused to give them the support they needed, it happened.
No, that was Revan. Revan lead a ruthless campaign that would taint most people.
@@lanesmith1465 War is ugly. War is even uglier when fighting against an ancient Sect of Mandalorians who consider War Crimes a passed time. Revan had to play dirty to win and the sad part is, he probably got desensitized to the constant death from the Mandalorian Wars.
Both the Revanists and the Order Loyalists were at fault. The Revanists acted too quickly and got corrupted by the War, while the Order Loyalists didn't do any investigating at ALL to see what made Mandalore the Ultimate start his war of aggression against the Republic. Didn't deploy Jedi Sentinels to learn more. Didn't discuss means of aiding the Republic in a humanitarian fashion. Instead they just...sat and watched and made themselves look like the Men in High Towers.
@@robertbarrows6687 You bring up an aspect I’ve not heard before. That Revan was basically too involved and the orthodox jedi not involved at all not even in line with their assessment of the conflict that something was amiss in the shadows. Which makes the entire situation even more of a shame from how preventable it was which is what I thought the Jedi are all about to foster life to flourish and feed the light side/ the force
@@watch50er Yeah. The Mandalorian Wars were a tragedy that turned actual heroes into villains since they didn't have the support from the people they needed. The Jedi Council airing on the side of caution could have been sensible if it had been actively assisting the Republic and non-Republic worlds with humanitarian assistance and investigating what caused the war. Instead Revan, Malak, and Meetra were forced to bear the burden of the horrors of war on their own with no support from the organization that basically raised them. It made the Jedi Order of after the Great Sith War into short-sighted cowards instead of wise Jedi who were doing what King Bumi of Avatar was: waiting for the right moment to strike.
@@lanesmith1465 you can't be redeemed when nobody allows a path of redemption. Revan almost assuredly would've fallen but by not offering him a chance they garunteed it
Upon clicking the video, I was prepared to write a comment on how this mystery jedi wasn't the biggest meanie and it was in fact Master Vrook; having watched the video, I feel vindicated
Me: "It better be Vrook."
Gets: "It belonged to a Jedi Master of the name Vrook Lamar."
Me: "Ha! There's that grumpy old bastard."
Vrook is like that Big Lebowski quote "You're not wrong, you're just an asshole."
Because reprogramming a brain damaged POW, giving them just enough training to be pointed at the enemy with the hope they kill more of the enemy (and probably get themselves killed in the process), assigning a Padawan who is in WAY over her head to act as their handler and crossing your fingers and hoping this crazy plan doesn't detonate in your face has "I've Got a Bad Feeling About This" in lights bright and big enough to see from high orbit.
While that's indeed a loose cannon of a plan with a myriad of ways of things can go wrong, it still nonetheless beats what Vrook had in mind, which, like how he'd been dealing with major conflicts so far, was to just sit, watch & do NOTHING.
Vrook wasn't all that bad. He was an ass a lot of the time but he did protect Dantooine from the militia.
Yeah but if Vrook had his way Malak would have just steamrolled the Republic.
@@storba3860 The mercenaries, not the militia.
The only way the Jedi ever do, and ever could win, is through Deus Ex Machina. They are blind, ignorant, foolish, and hypocritical through and through. Jedi have few if any redeeming features.
He’s basically the manifestation of “One often meets their destiny on the road he takes to avoid it.”
He feared his students turning to the dark side, so he was cold and unnecessarily strict with them, leading them to do so.
KOTOR I and II’s backstory: “And Vrook, that idiot, messed it all up.”
Jedi Council: We are the Will of the Force!
Jedi Padawan: Not yet!
Jedi Council: It's treason then.
If the masters would have gone with Revan, they would have been there to prevent Malachore; their very presence from the beninging would have tipped the balance of power in the Republic's favour much earlier, and the drastic measures like Malachore would not have been needed.
After that, they would have been privy to the star maps and could have investigated the mystery themselves, rather than having two hot-headed little shits do it with no supervision. That would have meant they would not have ended up getting in contact with the Sith Empire, or might have learned of it without drawing attention to themselves like Revan and Malak did.
There would not have been a Jedi civil war to weaken the Jedi and the Republic, and they might have been able to get the drop on the Sith, or at least would have been in better shape to deal wih them.
The masters did not take responsibility for the far-reaching consequences of their actions, and the entire order suffered SO hard for it.
To be fair even if the masters went with revan to find the sith emperor nothing would have changed since the emperor would have just killed the masters easily
@@revanruler6404 True, but they would likely have prevented Revan from going there in the first place had they been involved. I like to think they would have been that smart.
They probably could've averted the Mass Shadow Generator, but Revan and Malak still would've defected if they found the True Sith. Revan was the greatest military mind of his time, if he assessed that the True Sith were too strong, they were too strong. Probably would've caused a fight though.
The Jedi were still sort of recovering from the war with the Sith. Not to say that their decision wasn't dumb, but they had their argument.
Still, you'd think they'd have realised that the Mandolorians would have committed genocides throughout Republic space, including the Jedi themselves.
That dude lived through the Sith War and probably felt Malachor V, that and the BS going on, on Tatooine, probably didnt help the poor man with his paranoia. Survival guilt and seeing buddies leave him to follow sith or just die to the sith forces probably messed him up to a point of compromise.
Even first playthrough, without any other lore on him, I didnt blame him. I felt badly for him, but he seemed to just be scared of what he saw happen.
Unfortunately, fear is a path that can mess you up in the Star Wars universe.
Plus unlike that wuss Zez Kei Ell he was actually trying to help people, to mediate between the raiders and survivors of Dantoiine.
@@levongevorgyan6789Yeah, big sympathy or empathy pains for him.
@Corpse Light - Your comment should be pinned imo. He was an F'd up a-hole in the game, but not without reason.
A Jedi would have compassion for him; he was one screwed up individual, which made for a good antagonist in the story.
@@jadosykes5446 Wow. Thank you.
The poor dude was molded to live in fear .
He is a perfect example of why you should control your fear and not let your fear control you. Acknowledge it yes, talk to someone about it absolutely, but never let it force you to do something.
"Vrook spend most of his time on Dantoinee where he was in charge of relations with local settlers."
So it was the place where they sent incompetent masters to not mess things up!
That doesn’t work… Because vandar tokare was also sent there, too, and he is said to be on par with Yoda
@@michielkudova3887 nope, he was part of so far away to not mess things up council
@@martind5653 somehow i don’t believe you
@@michielkudova3887 wait it was this video that talks about it, right?
@@martind5653 no
RIP Ed Asner. He's one with the force now.
Jedi are supposed to be flexible, understanding and humble. How was this guy *not* kicked out of the Jedi Order? In fact, how did he even earn the title of Jedi Master when he’s so obnoxiously fearful.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he would’ve went to the Darkside of the force sooner or later.
@@freedomdude5420 Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Unless Vrook was actually somehow *too* paranoid to fall.
He was still fairly compassionate for non-jedi and was pretty skilled too. Plus, while stringent and a bit of a jerk, not very wrong. Definitely not so bad that he couldn't be a master
That's cuz the Jedi Order has long since ceased to be the benevolent order of Force-sensitive monks that they started out as. By Revan's time, the Jedi Order had more or less become a military order, & evidently, like typical military orders out there, they were far more interested in preserving themselves & the status quo, than doing the right thing.
@@mosorireayewale2820, another benefit to him is that he did not kill his padawan simply to prevent a prophecy from taking place. I think that seeing the various corruptions that occurred to masters and students during various wars likely reinforced his natural caution and acerbic nature.
The Jedi could really be assholes because they really don’t understand the finer things about relationships or emotions, and to the rest of the Galaxy they will appear like emotionless bastard that have a superior complex.
Bassically sums it up 😂
The Jedi may very well be comparable to the Seven, hell Anakin is almost the Homelander at times
Hmm. Have to respectfully disagree to an extent. Many Jedi had relationships and knew what those emotions felt like. The thing is, they also knew of the pain and suffering that loss brings and the fear of said loss. For most people this doesn't cause bad things, but for force sensitives they can easily go dark side and cause unimaginable suffering on others afterwards. So I wouldn't say that they don't understand, but that many understand all too well.
I do agree that, to everyone else, this could definitely make them seem like aholes
@@alonsoarana5307 don't remind me of that superman captain america mixed with Space Karen's attitude
@@Nyx117a No, in the end, the Jedi STILL didn't understand enough. Emotions, like the Force, have light & dark sides to them. While they had been extremely privy to the corrupting influence of negative emotions, they were far too quick to dismiss what positive emotions could do to reinforce one's connection to the light. Things would have been REALLY different, if they had been as studious about emotions, as they had with the Force.
Vrook Lamar, was definitely one of the biggest jerks in galactic history…At least according to legends, but his attitude wasn’t his fault. His viewpoint was indeed shaped by the sights and events that happens during the great Sith War! As well as what happened with his strict teachings believing that, arrogance, anger and emotions lead to the dark side, and. Continued to openly speak out against those who in his eyes were falling to the Darkside. Sure he had the right intentions, but in the end he was blind to the fact that he was the cause of many of the. Jedi’s failing as his strong believe not to get involved in the conflict Ms of the wider galaxy 🌌 resulted in the younger Jedi rebelling and falling to the Sith’s many schemes…As well as being the main reason why he perished he refused to accept his failings that his actions were in the right and the Jedi did nothing wrong.
@Lokabrenna except they didnt there was nothing in the game or surrounding lore that showed this, rather that they were simply afraid of going to war again so soon.
Vrook reminds me of joolies story about the blind Jedi master that refused to admit his eyes had gone bad.
@Lokabrenna even a broken clock is right twice a day. The man is like the people back in the 50s who saw commies everywhere. And he was wrong on fairly important matters. Revan saved the Republic (both during the mandalorian war and the Jedi civil war.) And suras was the one who would rebuild the Jedi and he was one of the people wanted to cut her off from the force. Basically he was the guy who said everyday that it was gonna rain today....and sooner or later a day would come when it would rain and he would point at it a go...see I told you so
@Lokabrenna ehhh you can make that argument I guess but as someone who has always believed the Jedi and sith are both wrong.(in my view they both represent extremes and extremes are bad, m'kay. Light and dark should be in balance with each other). He just seems like the kind of person that starts witch hunts. It can be argued that the Jedi screwed up revans whole plan to stop the sith empire(and made his last minute stop gap measure needed). See unlike just about every other sith in existence revan didn't "fall" he chose to go to the dark side. He saw the sith empire and knew the Republic was too disorganized and fractured to win a war with them and the war with exar kun had shown that Jedi in general were highly susceptible to falling to the dark side . So he chose to unite the Republic by force and If the Jedi were destined to fall then he would make sure they served him not the sith empire. It was his apprentice and the Jedi mind wipe that screwed that up.
My biggest gripe about him is that he was so focused on judging and condemning revan and meetra that he never noticed atris fall to the dark side.
Tackle this question. Why did the Jedi on Dantooine act like Malak didn't know about the enclave? They knew that he already knew about the place, but they continued to say it was hidden and act like the Sith didn't know about it.
I think it was more that they were confident he wouldn't attack with so many powerful Jedi present. Of course we all know how that went.
@@AdeptKing They outright said it was a secret and it was hidden at multiple points in the game.
Vrook and his contemporary masters (minus Vandar) are prime examples of the greatest flaw of the Jedi Order: they fear the Dark Side. Their fear is what led so many Jedi down the path of the Dark.
The Jedi would teach you to be mindful and wary against the Dark Side, yet they only succeeded in fostering an environment of Fear of the Dark.
And fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to never letting anyone else speak!
The Jedi Order never learned its lessons even after the establishment of the Ruusan reformation (which led to the era that we know), they became arrogant and complacent to the point that they deemed the Sith order extinct (which is not the case). They overstepped their role from a peacekeeper role to the more like an order that seemingly thought that they are always high above the peking order. It's for the reason why even way before the clone wars, people began to loathe the Jedi as nothing more than "Hoakey religion" practitioners. And it's for the reason why Palpatine used that fact to his advantage and made the Jedi order's reputation to the public even way lower especially towards the end of the clone wars. They were blinded by the fact that they were being manipulated right under their nose, and the testament on how good Palpatine really was in terms of politics and his connections with other politicians.
Lucas' biggest failure in the prequels was not adequately conveying to the audience how the Jedi order's downfall was largely their own fault. They had become too political, too self-involved, too stuffy, too conservative, and too comfortable. Palapatine was definitely a genius and there's no denying how he masterfully outmaneuvered them, but he did it in plain sight and right in front of them. He could've been stopped if the Jedi hadn't been so complacent and looking for an enemy that'd somehow be the exact same one from 1,000 years earlier.
Ah, the so-called Mace Windu of the KotOR era, and for a gruff and cynical man, he somehow was a really good Consular.
May you rest in peace, Ed Asner.
"it's not any of these jedi or their contemporaries,"
oh next he's gonna say vrook lamar, that dude sucked
"it was vrook lamar"
LETS GOOO
It's possible that if the council members had been there to guide revan, malak, and meetra surik, and the other young jedi perhaps at least most of them wouldn't have fallen to the dark side and maybe they could have kept surik from losing her connection to the force.I could be wrong; as for vrook lamar obviously he had been through traumatic experiences with the great sith war and maybe that's why he was so hard on everyone so they wouldn't have to go through what he did.
The jedi order needs to provide their members with a proper mental health care system.Vrook could've used some as well as jedi who came after him.
@Lokabrenna I see
I don't know if anything could have stopped Meetra from losing her connection if the battle of Malachor V still happened. Maybe if the whole battlefield wasn't imploded but still.
@@AdeptKing yeah
Vrook had himself fallen to the dark side, when he lost the ability to admit his own errors and the errors of his fellow masters. His stubborn grip around his cynisism showed that he had lost a vital part of the light side, but as he hadn't yet gone so far as to only use the force for his own gain, he had become a grey knight. He certainly could not be seen as a Jedi anymore, let alone a master
They didn't, yet, they were going on in lightspeeds to it though, all they needed was a push. Fear of the dark side and not see attachment as a double edged blade is what lead to there deaths.
Yeah, I didn’t like Vrook ever. So I didn’t really bat an eye when Kreia curbstomped him.
Kreia really was the best character in the old republic. Philosophically, she was right about damn near everything up until she fell back to the dark side at the end of KOTOR 2. She easily mopped the floor with those last 3 Jedi council members when they wouldn't come to their senses and realize how royally they screwed up. One of the best scenes in the games was her spelling out to them how they brought about their own demise.
@@Loe_Jist To be fair to Vrook, Zez-Kai-Ell, and Kavar, they would have slain Kreia if she hadn't weakened their powers with Force Suppression and meditated for five minutes (to gather her energies) before she revealed herself. As for her philosophy, it had merit but it was still flawed. She was wise and intelligent, but she had the very same flaw that befalls all Sith . . . arrogance. She believed herself able to kill the Force and desired to do just that. She decried the Force for being a malicious entity that fosters war and suffering, without accounting for the life and healing it has brought as well. She also did not realize that killing the Force would end the lives of countless billions and thousands of worlds. She had several points, but she was still ironically blinded to the good in others and of the universe and was just as incapable of forging a better universe as Vrook or anyone else in her era. One of the major points in KOTOR II is that everybody thinks they have the right answer(s) to a problem and never truly do.
I will point out that when Kreia stripped the force from the 3 at the end, they had a choice, if they had accepted the force being stripped from them and not try to grasp at the force desperately they would have survived, instead they refused to give up the force and perished due to their arrogant hubris
Please make a video on Vandar Tokare, he is an interesting member of Yoda’s species that deserves some recognition.
8:00 One of the things I felt was weird is there's a bunch of text about the enclave being a secret but Revan and Malak came from it so how is it a secret and safe location when they could strike it at any time they wanted to?
Sounds like he laid the groundwork for the later culture in the jedi order that was fronted by the likes of kii adi muni and mace windu
If we're talking about canon Jedi, sure. But prior to TCW, Ki-Adi-Mundi was kind and compassionate, and a talented Knight who ascended to the Council prior to becoming a master. Mace Windu was stoic and stern, but not unkind or oblivious. Luminara Unduli was a wise master greatly attuned to the Force. TCW ruined their characters by erasing everything good about them, just to prop up how the clones weren't at fault for anything. It made Palpatine not as clever either, if he was able to outsmart an incompetent Jedi Order. Exceptions are Filoni favorites such as Plo Koon and Kit Fisto.
It's not so much that I mind changes, as much as those changes were crappy, and characters like Ki-Adi-Mundi weren't as well written in TCW. That show basically just took other people's characters and dumbed them down to prop up its own OCs rather than just writing them to fit into the world they would be a part of.
Ur intro gives me ptsd that loading sound gives me chills from my child hood
There’s someone worse than Pong Krell?
Impossible! The probability of that is 10,003 to 1.
Guess it is a good thing that Palpatine and Anakin wiped out the Jedi Order and gave them the humble pie for their arrogance.
Pity that they soon outgrew them in arrogance
@@GM-kp7yw that's to be expected in a Sith, Jedi are supposed to be humble, self sacrificial for others, not proud or casting blame on students and not their teachings and beleaving they could do no wrong
my plant died. it's all the exile's fault
Having never heard of Vrook before the video, my initial reaction is that he is the exact opposite of Luke Skywalker. Luke had (at least in the non-disney movies) an undying hope that there was good in everyone and that anyone could come back to the light and be redeemed. Vrook seems to have just the opposite, a never ending fear that everyone around him could turn at any moment.
"Vrook Lamar was pretty consistent in making bad calls ..." The amount of passive-agressive energy on that phrase is greater than Malachor V's echo 😂
Also, the death of Master Vrook remains as one of the most satisfying moments in all the Star Wars Franchise. You can hate Kreia for having a genocidal plan, because she has a strange ideology that clashes with almost every ideology we know or perhaps her cynical attitude and her critics towards all of Surik's actions, but killing Master Vrook was one of the best ways to gain likeability from the fandom💖
Vrook's just angry that Freakazoid never went with him to get that jelly donut.
I wonder how many are going to get that?
I really do. I remember that episode from watching cartoon network as a kid.
Rip Ed Asner
2:39 breathing air.... Dark side.....
Walking funny dark side
Existing... dark side
The Masters didn't even TRY to stop them from going to war.
It's also believed that they didn't even try to explain themselves and their fears of what they sensed.
But on the other hand the immediate threat still has to be dealt with.
Oh, you just knew we would be getting a video about Vrook one of these days.
I thought the biggest a-hole in Jedi history was Jorus C'Baoth the original? That guy had a few screws loose even before the cloning incident.
He was a sith in waiting, so he doesn’t count, to put it. Simply, he was basically the Exar Kun of the prequel era, and it shows how far of the Jedi had fallen that all of the red flags he tripped were passed.
Vrook Lamar gets a pass because he was voiced by the awesomely legendary Ed Asner. Only he can make an a-hole sound reasonably likeable.
8:07 (Jeff Dunham's) Walter was a Jedi?
The only good thing about Vrook, is that he was voiced by Ed Asner in the game! Lol
Just going by the thumbnail photo and word “asshole”, I just KNOW it’s gotta be Master Vrook Lamar at 0:00.
EDIT at 0:38: KNEW it. No joke, I was assisting all the Masters in KOTOR II at nearly max light side alignment until I got to Vrook. I actually went out of my way to be a dick in his questline so I could kill him at the end. The rest of the council Masters found out and ragged me out of course at the final confrontation with them, but it was totally worth it.
Edit:
True and based. Best star wars content is found within the kotor
The Jedi orders biggest problem was Yoda. No one Chan have that much power for so long and not be complacent at best or corrupt at worst. The Jedi can’t help the slaves of Tattooine, but they can help the slave masters.
-Count Dooku.
I don’t deny Yoda redeemed himself, but I can’t deny Dooku was right. Yoda may not have been the biggest a-hole but he certainly was responsible for all the other a-holes and didn’t hold them accountable or attempt to change them.
How long was Yoda around for? How long was he on the jedi council and then it's leader?
@@andymiller6661 hundreds of years as supreme leader of Jedi order at least.
@@Penname25 Very vague.
I think Atris is worse than Vrook because of the fact that she is indirectly responsible for the deaths of everyone on Katar. She acted without consulting anyone and truly believed she was more right than anyone else, to the point she wa calling herself the last Jedi despite knowing that there were at least 4 other masters.
Atria was so stringent in her beliefs that she actually fell to the darkside because she was so bone headed and self-righteous.
Me:*sees title* also me:"but isn't that all of them?"
Well done as always!
I was expecting Pong Krell
Mace Windu is my top 5 jedi of all time.
His fighting style, lightsaber, character design etc etc...is amazing for me.
That being said, clone wara showed me side of him that I really hate:
His ego/arrogance.
When Ahsoka was framed there was a trial and Mace was among those that doubted her.
That is fine, there was evidence against her.
What I can not tolerate is that even after Barris testimony, instead of apologise to her or admit he was wrong, he came with the lame BS response of:
It was a trial of the force or the force works in misteryous ways or some BS like that.
After that.. I stopped liking him so much.
Too bad, not being humble enough to admit he was wrong.
What I like about Vrook is that he clearly held sway over the whole council in KOTOR 2. Kavar and Zez were both on the brink of realizing the faults with the Jedi Order of their era, but once they were in Vrook's company, they began singing the same old tune and totally forget about their previous doubts. Vrook's arrogance was just that powerful.
My first reaction when I saw him back in the days was: “why is a angry moisture farmer among the Jedi council?”
R.I.P. Ed Asner (voice of Vrook)
Vrook always blamed his students for falling to the Dark Side, never once questioning what lessons they might have learned, and from whom, that put them on that path. He was the most toxic kind of teacher imaginable - blameless in his own eyes, and thus never able to correct his mistakes.
No my theory is the Jedi order has a secret A hole competition to create the galaxies most unpleasant people have some sort of form of entertainment
Well there was this one knight who killed some younglings…thats kind of a rude thing to do
But mace windu for me will always be the most egoistic and the one who pushed Anakin to the edge Jedi, probably the whole council was like that.
I'm reminded of the masterpiece that is Traya's character.
As soon as I saw the title and thumbnail, my first thought was "It's going to be Vrook, isn't it?" and indeed it was
Haha, I had the same reaction
Fear is the path to the darkside! Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering. Tell me Vrook isn’t the embodiment of what the Jedi Council constantly tout as the path to the darkside!!
Cade Skywalker may have been one of the worst people to be a Jedi, but he did somewhat redeem himself.
Ki adi mundi not being the biggest A-Hole of the Jedi order? That's too obvious of an April fools prank
Sometimes there's always another bigger A-Hole.
0:32 Is that Mr. Lahey?
0:02 why does yaddle look like a chad yoda
When of the curious things is when you use Force Sight in Kotor 2 and view Vrook he is just barley attuned to the light side just barely I always found that telling and I am also often very curious had Atris been allowed to interact with Vrook if the too would have fallen together and as Kreia said would have been terrible enough to admit it.
Great video
“Am I so out of touch?”
“No it’s the students who are wrong”
So, never having heard of this fellow this is my understanding.
He watched a bunch of uppity youngsters turn to the dark side, kill their masters and kick off the Great Sith War, which resulted in mass death and the destruction of the Jedi Order's home world. He survived that and became staunchly opposed to allowing that to happen again. Then a new bunch of uppity youngsters decide to disobey their masters and go fight in another war, resulting in mass death and a wound in the force. Then two of the Leaders return as Sith Lords and wage the Jedi Civil War, killing even more Jedi. He then opposed the idea of brainwashing the leader of the enemy's forces to try to kill his former comrade, cause that plan could never go south. His enclave on Dantooine is then gets destroyed. The when trying to regroup, Nihilus, a being created at Malachore, which happened because the uppity youngsters didn't listen, shows up and basically eats most of the remaining Jedi. He puts himself into exile for a while and when one of the people responsible for this and leading the Jedi into the Mandalorian War shows up he doesn't agree with her. Why would he?
Why would he think he was wrong at any point. From his perspective. Had the youngsters just listened to him, guarded themselves from the Darkside and not gone to war, all this death and destruction would never had happened.
cause that's his perspective, its subjective, hindsight is 20/20 but from the mandalorian wars the young jedi thought to follow what they were taught defend those who cannot defend themselves and stop people from suffering as that was Revan and Malak's goal in joining the war, but as war is brutal and Mandos are very skill in the arts of war ( from lore they were in essence the only faction of independent people who could fight both jedi or sith and win) they eventually fell, as Traya from kotor 2 said the war masked another war of conversion. further the player in both kotor games doesn't know Vrook's backstory he's just some jackass but in 2 you're trying to unite the masters to fully draw out the sith so they can be defeated but they make a bad decision of "wait and see" so they never could understand that if they were active in the wars rather than judging for when "the right time is" they might've been able to guide the uppity youngsters rather than them running amuck and then patting themselves on the back saying "called it". like you're trying to do some good and he's like *judgemental frown* "darkside" no matter what you do
Kreia said, if Revan had not gone to war, the Galaxy would have fallen. I don't think she was lying about that.
Freedon Nadd is possibly the worst Jedi ever - he went a great deal further than being merely crotchety.
Most Unjustly Treated: Ahsoka Tano; Xendor
What Vrook had been doing the whole time, was trying to clean things WITHOUT getting his hands dirty in the slightest. He'd been too much of a germaphobe to be able to deal with big messes, as the mere sight of such big messes effectively paralyzed him. He'd been unforgivingly critical about anything & everything that anyone would do to make things right, while being unable to come up with any workable solutions at all. For all his vigilance, he'd actually fallen, as he'd effectively let fear rule him. For better or worse, his utter refusal to budge due to fear had prevented him from outright falling to the dark side like Atris, yet it instead led to others falling in his stead.
In a way, he was suffering from PTSD the whole time, yet he was too blind & stubborn to see that his unflinching wariness against the dark side, was little more than a foil for him being weak. What he needed was to admit that he was sick & he needed therapy, NOT a leadership position in a shaky organization.
10:17
I knew that Tywin Lannister was a Sith Lord.
I figured this would be about D*ckhead...I mean, Mundi.
Or Jorus C'Baoth.
"I told you so!" - Vrook Lamar probably
Definitely telling that his force aura in Kotor 2 is significantly less lightside aligned than the other members of the council. The man feared the darkside in a way that colored hai own connection to the light. Cynicism is not a positive trait one should find in the highest members of the order.
Just a bitter old man consumed buy hate, anger and bitterness. He should have bin felt with and yes I whould not mind hearing more from this era.
*by *been dealt with
The moment I read the title of the video the first name that came to my head was Vrook from Kotor . I was right 😊
Revan: I’m gonna put some dirt in your eye
Boy even the greatest are the biggest jerks.
Vrook is like the mean old science teacher that always does weird stuff. He's a creepazoid
I didn’t know about that holo recording of dantooine
She didnt drain the force for them despite her using the same animation for it in the game, she attempted to do what the Masters were about to do to the exile.
Vrook had good reason to hold the viewpoints he did, and had a legit reason for being so crotchety and cranky.
But eventually it becomes obvious that he is using the threat and the danger of the Dark Side as a crutch, a convenient excuse for being so black-and-white, and having this "you are either with us, or against us" mentality. He absolutely refused to even entertain the notion that the galaxy existed in shades of grey, that things can and do exist along a spectrum.
That's the issue with almost every Jedi, they spend so much time looking at the light that they're blinded to what's caught in their shadows and they don't notice it at all
Bro, that's a great way of phrasing it: so blinded by the light that they don't see what's in the shadows. 👍
Vrook was the only master in Kotor 2 that made me wonder how he got his rank. Kavar and the others were reasonable and good despite the fact that they were a bit off in their views. Those were the ones that felt like wise and experienced masters.
Have you ever done a video on the blackwing virus from Red Harvest or Death Troopers?
can you make a video on dnd clone alignment chart?
If i were on the dantooine council I would have voted with Vrook on the matter of Revan. Not only was it dangerous to try and comtrol Revan but it was hugely immoral. The Jedi treated Revan as if he was a droid.
So we just going to forget about Pong Krell or...
Vrook Lamar vs Pong Krell: which one was worse
When you find out all the bad things that the Jedi Order did it's hard for me to even listen to them calling themselves right or good without laughing at the fact that they were not
By looking at the thumbnail only I’m guessing it’s Master Vrook
As someone who doesn't speak English, your accent is easy to understand.
Also, he was voiced by the late-great Ed Asner!
When it comes to Reven, Malik, and the exile
I can see why he should be concerned.
I still definitely agree he was an "A" hole and seriously needed to lighten up.
Why don't you tell the story of Freedon Nadd?
I knew immediately who the video was about since reading the title.
Yes !!! 😊 do master zhar and master vandar😊😊😊