LeMond Reveals The Moment EPO Hit Cycling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 มี.ค. 2024
- An Extract from conversation with Greg LeMond
"Why I Quit Cycling"
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If you want to check out the full interview with Greg LeMond, here it is th-cam.com/video/_kFSe3VxS10/w-d-xo.html
Also, don't forget that Andy Hampsten retired from cycling because he KNEW his competition was doping and he refused to do this just to keep up. Good for him.
He retired in 1996 aged 34, so little to do with doping rivals.
@@EpeP-qs9xb Well, in an interview, he specifically stated that he couldn’t keep up any longer and he fully believed it was because of their doping.
100% true. I personally know a former pro who refused to take Epo before the TOUR. Next season his contract wasn't renewed.
are you at liberty to mention who it was?
or what year?
Just the team, if you don't mind. Clas Cajastur
@@toddbrittain1060 . Clas Cajastur team
Indurain was 186cm tall! Clean Indurain beats Clean Lemond time trial easily! No-one believes you Lemond! USA dopers like John McEnroe(horsehormone user!) Mark McGwire Barry Bonds Mario Jones Randy Barnes Justin Gatlin And so on! Come on Lemond you are crazy claiming clean Lemond beating dopers! STOP IT LEMOND NO_ONE Believes you!!
Watching Greg LeMond's career from when he was a junior and making the jump into the European peleton were incredible times. I am about 5 years younger than him and he was an inspiration from the first time I saw him win the Nevada City Classic here in Northern CA as a junior. He won both the junior's and senior pro races. And of course to come back and win two more times lapping the field.
LeMond's TDF wins were fantastic to say the least. And after the 1990 win we thought this is the strongest he's ever been and he will easily win another. It was very confusing and hard to understand the 1991 season. Everything changed and you could feel a new era in cycling, but it happened to quickly. My dad and I didn't talk or really even think about PEDs. It just wouldn't have had that big of an impact. But like said before, EPO was the rocket fuel.
It must have been even more confusing and frustrating for LeMond to experience this as the best cyclist in the world and not able to beat these guys. And that also goes for some of the past TDF winners who could no longer compete for the GC.
Pretty incredible that you got to watch his career from that vantage point!
He has every reason to be a bitter old guy, from getting shot to the EPO era, to Lance, to Trek. Yet, he seems pretty objective. Another reason those who know recognize Greg is LeMan, one of the greatest to ever race.
Phew, I'd like to hear his thoughts on a few of the guys today, including Pogacar. Greg was a bona fide roueleur and won all types of races on all types of parcours, but Pogacar is simply not believable. See his recent win in Strade Bianchi. No friggin' way.
As time goes by, LeMonds shoulders grow wider and his shoes larger. Just the exact opposite of that guy from texas. I am about his age and was a club racer when he was in his prime so I was very interested in all of it. I still cannot believe how fast he was. That 89 tour was flat out amazing. Thanks for the memories, Mr LeMond!
growth hormone, look at bodybuilders
@@santis0708 I'm not literally talking about his size here. His stature.
There is no way that Lemond was entirely clean and able to win races and tours against known dopers though
I raced in the 1980's. I'm a cancer survivor. I will never forget what he did. He was gifted and STILL cheated (he was proud of it behind closed doors). Then he knowingly lied about it. Then he tried to destroy the lives of the honest people that were not gonna let him cheat. They were little people. He tried to destroy their lives so he could get away with cheating.
I am a little person as well. Not even surviving cancer could give him a little gratitude or humility.
He wasn’t gifted. He and the best and most expensive doping program which could turn donkeys in to thoroughbred racehorses.
@@LeeH688 back when all the racing leaders were doping, armstrong was beating them, thanks to doping and to being gifted
@@LeeH688 in a twisted way, being highly responsive to drugs IS a gift in a world where everybody is on drugs. He may not have been naturally gifted, but that wasn't the gift that was needed at the time, being a hyper-responder was. It's well known that some people respond more than others
@@peabody3000 He simply made a bet.
That, after the Festina scandal in 1998, the others would have cheated less, while, at the same time, the organizers would have been so scared for the race to be considered a farce, that they would have given a free pass to cheaters, so he could cheat more.
He then recruited the best doper, and had him preparing the entire team. He took EPO AND steroids and, for that he had been ALMOST caught.
Because, only two days before the race, it had been announced that the racers would have been tested for corticosteroids starting from that edition.
The result? Armstrong tested positive to corticosteroids FOUR TIMES in that edition. Only him.
But the organizers decided to believe the sore saddle cream tale, and gave him a free pass for doping. He won his bet.
That way they tied themselves to him for 7 years.
My friend and neighbor was on USPostal, his choice was get on “the program” or quit. He wanted to do one long stage race so he did tour of Spain then quit. He had an advanced degree so that choice was easier for him I’m guessing
Yuppp same thing with David George when he joined... only know this through south african cycling and the Ryan Cox incident when the dude was riding for Barloworld... was in the peleton during those years and I've heard the USPS stories... crazy times
Yeah same thing with a guy I used to race with in Utah, Marty.
It's a real big accomplishment when you're a great bike racer and you're using all kinds of drugs to cheat. Congratulations for being such a great cheater.
I quit racing in the late 80's because the top ladies I was competing against were on anabolics. No way I could compete with that. Working my way through college in biological sciences, I learned about EPO in 1990. My very first thought was, 'Holy sh*t. I hope the cycling community never gets their hands on this stuff.'
That's why I quit later on in the '90s. I was clean and I could not compete with the likes of Lance Armstrong and all his cohorts.
I was on amino acids and protein powder and they were on steroids and EPO.
Do you remember the lady from 7/11 who was just killing it?? Then she got popped and admitted PED's...
What were those "top" ladies taking? Nandrolone, Winstrol, Dianabol? I knew this girl who was messing with steroids in the late 80's; she was into competitive body building. Her voice literally changed overnight one day into a more masculine tone. Hilarious. She never got her girly voice back.
@@alphacentauri8083 Anabolics (synthetic testosterone) from Mexico. Not sure of the brand name(s). I was very young and naive, but I knew enough to know that when my racing buddies shoved that sh*t under my nose, I wanted no part of it... I wasn't interested in growing hair in weird places or losing my b00bs, race wins be damned. When I couldn't win CAT 1/2 races without that juice, I left the scene. Heartbreaking.
@@alphacentauri8083 As an aside, my best racing friend/training partner died at the age of 28 due to the stress on her liver from taking Anabolics. She contracted Hepatitis and she was found dead in our apartment within 12 days of diagnosis.
90's were pretty much the peak of everything! We're just holding on for dear life now!
Thanks for letting Greg talk. I can't remember the last time I watched an interview where the interviewer didn't become annoyed and interrupt every few seconds to service their own ego.
I like Greg, he explains things like me, has to give every detail in an attempt to be as honest as possible and let the listener decide. Doesn't make for the smoothest narrative, but hopefully in the end the truth is more convincing anyway.
Very interesting take.
I don't know how to look at Indurain now... He's clearly a nice guy, but it's also certain that he was on the juice. I wish there were more pressure for him to come clean. History is not dead and needs to be amended.
What would you do? Cancel twenty if not thirty years of cycling?
@@leonardofabbri7930 Did I say that? No. I would like the truth so we don't make the mistake of treating some as more clean than others.
@@leonardofabbri7930 Well, yea. If they want to erase lance from the books, gotta erase everyone else too.
@@leonardofabbri7930
Indeed it wouldn't be realistic nor a good idea -
In that regard, it makes no sense that Armstrong got his TDF wins taken away
@@GdF420 I believe the thing about LA is while all the others somehow did the same thing, he indeed built around him kind of a system
Discovered your channel a week ago, really good job. I have been watching cycling since 1988-1989. I am French and french journalists have always been pretty vocal about doping (l Equipe...etc). Nice to have a fresh take on the topic, in English, from some very reputable cyclists. I have always been a massive fan of Greg Lemond, even if he beat Laurent Fignon and B.Hinault (sacrilege..lol). Actually, in his biography, Laurent Fignon describes the same feeling with the arrival of EPO with very high average speed (all of a sudden) and being beaten by some nobody (respectfully).
Not sure if you’ve had a chance to watch my chat with Greg from during the week yet. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts th-cam.com/video/_kFSe3VxS10/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dWVFUnFuRWquIs0o
I've read a lot of sports autobiography over the years but 'we were young and carfree' must rank in the top 2-----I recall his dismally of Italian television when they thought he was making a poor descent of the poggio in msr and all he was doing was lulling foundriest into a false sense of security-----what a rider 😊
I remember the same story from Fignon. Clearly 1991 was the start of the wave of EPO.
good guy greg doing interviews with 1k sub channels and boosting their algo
Thanks for these interviews with Greg. Illuminating.
Nice interview, book marked the long version, Can't wait
There’s a part 1& part 2 of the long version. Looking forward to hearing what you think
I always thought for myself, into gym and fitness.
If I have to take steroids or peds I'm giving up on myself in some way, like it was the easy way out.
My friends got on the gear and the difference is big, in the amount of volume you can do and recover from.
thats the drugs doing the work, not them, might aswell just have a motor, thats the way I see it. Much like you, there's no point me going out on the bike if i'm gonna cheat, i just dont see the logic.
@@Nosh_Feratu can't get big on drugs without doing the work tho.
If you don't want to take them, then don't. But drugs ain't gonna make a couch potato who does not lift look like a greek god without effort.
@@sepg5084no, I think we all know that, there has to be something to build from in the first place.
My point was really about motivation and achievement, both of which are drastically reduced by doping, for me anyway.
Looking back it was so obvious what happened in 91. At the time I just thought Lemonds body was breaking down from the leftover shooting pellets. Lemond would certainly have been a 5 time, if not 6 time TDF winner had he not been shot, and had EPO not been introduced to the peloton.
I feel like the same thing happened in 2020
I raced bikes in Nor Cal in the 80's and 90's. I was a HUGE fan of Greg LeMond and all of the racers at that time, especially the 7-Eleven team. I was also a fan of Lance Armstrong because he was an American doing great in Europe. But after a couple of those Tour wins, I saw how easy it was for him and I knew then he was a fricking cheater. After a while, other people seemed to notice and eventually, he even confessed himself.
What I loved about watching the Tour and other races was, being a racer myself, I knew the effort it took to accomplish what they were doing. Once drugs because the mainstay of the sport, it became a race of not the best racers, but who had the best pharmacy. Bike racing at the top of the sport meant nothing anymore. I kept watching for a few years but it became clear to me that there was too much money involved, the networks and worse, the fans, decided that drugs didn't really matter as long as they put on a good show.
So, I while I still ride my bike, I haven't watched a Tour or any other bike race for over 10 years. Why? I'm not saying they're not good athletes, but it means nothing if you cheat. Cheaters should have life time bans from the riders to teams, managers, and support personnel. I have absolutely zero sympathy for the anyone who has ruined this sport.
I know, I know, in the early years people used amthamines, etc...., but that's child's play compared to what's being used now. And I don't forgive that either. Yes, I'm an unapologetically purist.
Hell, even our local Mt. Hamilton race, a former Pro rider who was on my team swore those he raced against were "helped". I believe him and that's the sin of this shit, people emulate their heroes and they make cheating the norm. F-them all.
When I was a rower ( nothing special but fit ) my hematocrit was 37%. At the same Rjiis was reputedy at 60%. I reckon I would have pretty good with nearly double the blood cells.
He got the moniker "Mr. 60% btw
I knew it, Once everyone was using EPO Greg said, I can't do this clean. Greg was always my inspiration.
Sorry but I am afraid that you are deluded! Of course he doped!
Amazing interview ❤️
🙏
Love listening to Greg leMond
I remember the '91 season, and especially '92 as the start. Didn't really take off until 93/94 when you had the likes of Ariostea & GewissBallan cleaning up the classics without breaking a sweat and Berzin in the '94 Giro.
Blood doping had a known history in endurance sports and even in mountain climbing without oxygen assist in 1960s and 70s. This was accomplished byextracting one's blood earlier and intravenously restoring it before either first or later.day effort.
Recombinant epo can be manufactured and it is this to which LeMond is referring.
I DID compose a little ditty to the tune of "Little GTO for whatsisname who was later stripped of seven phony TdF " wins", which, from other evidence was assisted by the magic of anabolic T precursors as well.
What was most difficult about whatsisname's "wins" was the fitting of all the enhanceement drugs into the Ronny and the Daytonas' lyric enhancement.
Our 1984 Olympic cycling team did that. They called it blood boosting and our National coach Eddie Bourshowyst(sp?) was in charge of that. It wasn't illegal at the time but when people found out what we had done and they included it in rules of illegality.
Lemond will always be the greatest American cyclist!
One interesting part of this whole story is that Amgen makes epo (the first genetically engineered pharmaceutical) in Boulder Co. which was maybe the epicenter for cycling and endurance sports in the eighties and nineties in the USA.
I had friends that were cyclists who worked for Amgen, I woder if the proximity to the sport had anything to do with its rapid adoption. I never heard about ultra runners, or marathoners or triathletes indulging but I’m sure it happened.
Great interview
Cheers Damian
🙏
MUCH RESPECT "Greg LeMond"!!!
Blows it wide open. Lance Armstrong set American roadracing back 100 years. Greg has been right 100% of the time.
I raced clean against Lance Armstrong and some of his teammates.
Now I would just punch them in the face.
American road racing was and is a joke. Doesn’t have anything to do w LA.
@@JB-uv4hm actually, it does. I raced against Lance Armstrong in Utah which for your information is in the United States.
Another Nimrod with a phone and joke of a comment.
@@mylittlepitbull3143 sure ya did buddy. If you had actually raced, you’d know that LA just played the game better.
@@JB-uv4hm I raced against all the greats in that era who the f are you
Thank you Greg LeMond.
In cross country skiing discussion is that EPO arrived first to pro cycling and then to other endurance sports. And in xc skiing Lahti World Championships 89 there was a rumour that EPO test is here. Team Finland used EPO and the success was there.
Epo is just easier then blood transfusion. So blood transfusion was there for sure.
I worked on the Amgen vs Ortho case during the summer of 1988 (and I have a strong physiology background). I remember multiple times telling my coworkers that marathon runners, xc skiers and cyclists will be using EPO in no time. Because it was more intended for those with anemia, cancer, AIDS, etc., everyone thought me the fool (partly because of potential side effects).
I previously worked for the company (Amgen Inc) that made the basic science discoveries on how red blood cells are developed and what controls the normal levels of concentration in the blood. Based on this research, the company cloned the gene for the protein that controls red cell production...a protein known as Erythropoietin (EPO) for use in anemia patients. Basically a life changing drug for use in kidney dialysis patients, who were typically so anemic they had to have regular blood transfusions just to be able to function normally (think bed ridden, unable to climb stairs etc). When used "off-label" for performance enhancing, you are basically raising the red cell concentration in the blood beyond the normal range. Yes there are enduracne benefits, but go too far and you end up with molasses for blood, leading to increased risk of strokes and clots and death.
That's exactly what happened to several Dutch cyclists in the amateur ranks during the late 80' or early 90's. They began experimenting with EPO without proper medical supervision, and several of them died in their sleep.
@@alphacentauri8083 I'm sure they are not the only ones. Never understood this drive for pushing limits via drugs. If everyone else is doing the same thing, then you are all back to the same limits and it comes back to training, genetics and skill. So why use the drugs.
@@TornadoCAN99 But cheating and looking for shortcuts in order to achieve an objective is an innate human trait across the board, not just in sports. The introduction of EPO to the peleton was tantamount to winning a high-prized scratch off lottery ticket. It's very hard to turn down if it's going to ease your path to victory and higher earnings potential.
@@alphacentauri8083 But taking a drug to cheat only works if other competitors are not doing the same. That was my point....once everyone else has the same advantage, there is no point anymore...
There's been so much debate as to when epo came into the Pelton but I trust Greg's judgement on that-----I'd previously heard peter winnen making a reference about it starting to filter through as early as 89 but I didn't get the vibe of ' night and day ' differences at that point.
it's hard to know for sure but I do trust greg
Irish professional rider Paul Kimmage wrote the breakthrough book _Rough Ride_, published in 1990, that blew the top off of EPO use in the peloton. Kimmage was widely ostracized by other pros and media for writing that book. When he entered the professional ranks in 1986 EPO use was already widespread, albeit minus any medical intervention hence the number of actual deaths that occurred due to the way EOP doping increased blood viscosity and led to heart failure. It wasn’t until around 1990 that teams like Banesto and ONCE started showing up with sophisticated medical support staffs and vehicles (trailers) in order to monitor doped athlete hematocrit and blood viscosity levels to allow them to benefit from EPO without the potential for heart failure. SO, EPO was definitely firmly entrenched in the peloton and LeMond’s TdF wins in 89 and 90 would be, well, firmly in the middle of that development and highly unlikely that anyone could win without help. Certainly the run Indurain went on from 91-95 with Banesto’s medical support was enhanced. But I would say the timelines are important and EPO for the strongest riders didn’t just appear AFTER LeMond won two tours in 89 and 90. Just something to consider. And I don’t begrudge any rider or team who did what they had to do in order to win in this environment. We need to try, hard, to put ourselves in their shoes with doping going on all around them and no repercussions. Just my two cents.
You look at the results of many Italian riders in the spring of 1990 and it's clear they as a group were in on the secret already. Pippa York has spoken of '91 as a turning point as well, noting how Chiappucci at MSR was 'riding like 10 men on the flat'. My sense is it broadened out beyond Italy in waves from 91 onwards to the point by 93 you either took it and survived, or you didn't and were forced out.
@@EMC2Scotia Kimmage said it was ubiquitous when he became a pro domestique in 1986. The Italians were a leading edge with team doctors Ferrari and Conconi. Moser admitted to using it in 1983-85 but he could have used simple blood doping (packing). Clinical trials for recombinant EPO began in 1986. EPO related deaths began occurring in the late 1980s until teams figured out that it worked but you had to manage blood viscosity, which led to teams like Banesto using medical people and medical trailers/vehicles at races. Indurain then won five in a row. So it took awhile for EPO to be largely rider-spread and administered to team administered (according to Kimmage, coerced) to team medically managed. Then, when hematocrit levels were mandated as a stop-gap before a reliable rhEPO test (2001?), the peloton was pretty much all riding at the legal limit, as teams would dope riders to just over the limit, then IV them back down below to a level that would avoid heart stress and stay below the measurement variability of doping tests. FWIW, cyclists were not likely the early adopters of EPO among elite athletes. Runners and Nordic skiers knew about it years before that. But in the end we’ll probably never know with any accuracy unless some outstanding researcher does a serious deep dive and former athletes and managers open up.
Yes I think that's a very succinct appraisal of the epo timeline.
Roadman! You should interview Bryan Fogel, who created the documentary Icarus about doping. It would be a great interview!
Hello Greg we were neighbors when I was young out in rancho M.
How did the riders using EPO not get caught? Were they not being tested for it, or were they masking the drug, using low doses, something else? Thank you.
i've read about a whole sophisticated range of measures to avoid being caught.. things like carefully timing the dosage, using newer drugs that weren't detectable, submitting stored blood or urine samples. test results were often ambiguous or even suspicious but not 100% damning so were largely ignored. dopers diligently stayed ahead of the testing regimens in order to continue cheating.
The GOAT 🪬🙏🏽❤️
I stopped racing at 18yo in 2001, all the top athletes of my age were on something... cortisone, anabolica, Epo, even freaking Nitroglycerin...
Hey Greg I think you rode with a friend of mine Steve Tibbetts.
I used to race out of Utah.
I was in love with bike racing and you were my hero. Love you man.
Then I was able to race against Lance Armstrong and I hate that guy. All his BS is why I quit bike racing and went to swimming at surfing. So it worked out okay.
Was not a fair playing field at the end of my racing career.
Great chat with Greg @roadmanpodcastclips, but then the next moment you have Hincapie on and treat him like he's some kind of hero… 🤨
I’ll talk to anyone, whatever their past, whatever their perspective. By seeing all sides, good & bad, light & evil we can understand this sport a little better
Another top job
Is that a halo above Greg’s head?
65 now and loved riding, was a joy to watch the greats and huge Lemond fan, then not so much, something changed in the riders. Stopped watching but then got hold of David Walsh’s book and everything suddenly made sense. I don’t follow the sport anymore because whilst it was always dodgy I kinda had a faith in it enough to believe that the bed guy won. DW’s book made me realise that the whole thing was corrupt and I was done with it.
I recall being stood about 1k below the finish line at sestries 92 recall chiappucci coming past and then my all time hero Mr roche coming past a few minutes later-----what concerned me that greg almost didn't make the time cut-----it was clear things had changed
that's an amazing experience to witness that.
@@roadmanpodcastclips yes apart from it becoming obvious that our sport had changed it was brilliant and know some 32 years on I think we are the nearest to cycling being genuinely clean since the mid 90s and I think tajeds performance last Saturday is an inspiration for all athletes.
I was also there at the stage, but in Val d Isere is i rember correctly. Also remember saying to my Dad that Chiapucci is nuts. He was 200K all alone over several mountains. GCN acutally made a documentary about with Mitch Docker. Next day Greg quit the TdF. I have seen him in the teamcar on Alpe d Huez.
Oh yes I recall seeing that quite recently and him basically suggesting that modern world tour riders who'd be reluctant to even take on a stage of such length and severity which if my recollection is correct was very telling. That day at sestriere Allan pepper was quoted as saying the race to make the time cut was " the real battle mate----"
@@JohnButler-iq8rl😂😂😂😂😂
I love how Greg’s talking in kms and km/h, not miles! You are now an honorific Aussie 🇦🇺 😂
And U.S. soldiers in Europe were good at measuring distance in 'klicks.' 😀
It’s time for Lemond to bring back the 3k to 2k road bike…for the regular rider.
It was terrible luck that the EPO era started right as Lemond started with iron injections. It was amazing that lemond was able to beat all of these cheaters when they were injecting EPO and he only had iron supplements.
Is anyone else concerned about the brown, spiky growth right on the top of Greg’s head?
Unfortunate positioning indeed
The Eye of Sauron?
That's his crown.
He'd better not go outside during deer season! He might get shot!
Lemond is always right. I mean, look at the angel wings growing out of his head!
So what are the riders taking now? They are way faster. Please tell.
It's just better nutrition, training methods and sports science 🤣
Microdosing. They’re still on stuff. They just stay within the limits of the blood testing
@@buttlesschap "It's just better nutrition, training methods and sports science 🤣" Yeah, sure they are.
@@jimmagee4508As someone that is fascinated with pharmacology and sport I've been very interested in how doping works. In my experience less of a dose often times results in better performance. At a certain point regardless of what PED is used you hit a point of diminishing returns AND the side effect profile is so severe you hinder performance. Look at how many records on the men's side have been broken in track and field after testing was implemented. They can only use a fraction of what they could use in the non tested era and the performances are better. The women's side is a different story, because the women could push their androgen levels into male territory. Now those records are nearly untouchable.
True champ.100 years Greg!!!!
Abusing EPO was why high performance athletes started having health issues not just cyclists some of them even died especially in their sleep.
my cousin crossed over after a training accident in 1990, he was the best junior in the world, a short little aussie, so never got to do his first tour - i take some heart that if he did, he would have been excluded by dopers, so in my mind, he got the hill climbers jersey we all knew he would have...coz the rest were all dopers.
When the THREE time TdF champion and defending champ says, "Honey, this is going to be my easiest TdF win yet" and then proceeds to finish 13' down on the winner...you know something fishy, and dirty, was going on.
Merckx was busted and so many others and suddenly people were riding clean 😂😂😂
I don't think the point was clean vs EPO, but before and after the introduction of EPO. EPO was simply a game changer. Riders with a high, natural VO2max and a favourable body type could overcome the sort or common dirty man doping we saw all the way back from the fifties. With EPO? Not so much.
He got busted several times at that, but the politics of cycling seemed to have been different at the time.
It's the zone 2 training, bro.
We are talking about Lemond clean and EPO’s corruption. Performance enhancing goals were always training, food, and caffeine along with PEDs. Merckx’s bust has nothing to do with them both being great athletes.
Merckx got popped for stimulants. strong riders can still compete clean against someone on amphetamines. oxygen vector doping methods like EPO or blood transfusions are a different story. if you gave a mediocre pro EPO and put them in a field of clean riders, they're winning anything that isn't a sprint.
Makes you wonder about today’s performances
Nobody wonders close to the sport. Vingegaard's performance in the last year's Tour de France wasn't real.
I've stopped watching bike racing, I lost my faith.
Nope, stopped wondering 30 years ago. Haven't watched a second of cycling telly since 2012. Too laughable.
I'd love to know what Greg thinks about what has been happening since 2020. The times and watts per kilos from 2020 to now are so insane compared to what was taking place before. I know Team Sky and Ineos weren't angels but whatever they were doing is incomparable to whatever is being done now. Times up mountains now are smoking even what occurred in the 90s and the Armstrong era. Perhaps it's marginable gains or whatever but something must have happened.
Watch the full interview, it's discussed.
My favorite part about doping in sport is that drug-seeking behavior privileges narcissists and sociopaths...
yeah greg tell that one how get all buff from cross country skiing in the off season
Let’s talk about when blood doping started.
It is clear to me indurain took epo. He was a good time rider. But uphill he was to heavy. But in those days he was flying clearly on a forbidden substance. The best example was my fellow country men Breukink who was excellent in the years 87/88/89/90 but became short of breath in 91/92/93. At that time he was just 26/27 which was kind of strange
Indurain was a teammate of Pedro Delgado who cheated as well. It was only through a technicality that the drug Delgado used (1988 Tour) was not yet on the UCI banned substance list but only on the Olympic banned substance list. Indurain learned from his cheating mentor.
Breukink was on PDM. Obviously not clean.
Greg claiming he won against juice heads as a natty always gets me laughing.
you aren't in prison yet?
"I have severe allergies"
That's what every doper says!
Cycling was so dirty, i doubt anybody on the tour was clean back then.
I love Greg. He is the second best US cyclist behind Lance Armstrong.
“Our roided up guy beat your roided up guy.” - Bill Burr
Not roids
Why Why Why does nobody question the miraculous improvement of Lemond in the 1989 Giro after he started getting his "Vitamin Shots". The tour of Italy, a week after he started the shots he went from being dropped by the groupetto to coming in 2nd in the final time trial. What was in those shots that brought him from the back of the pack to near the front?
I've always wondered about it but EPO isn't a one shot deal. Maybe testosterone? It wasn't vitamin shots either, it was iron shots. Those were also after his gunshot wound, so perhaps it was a counter to the lead poisoning? I don't know but they were doing blood tests then too.
He continued to get shots. It has been published before and he has said on interviews that it was B12 or Iron at different times. Neither of these work that fast. EPO does. EPO was first in use the year prior but there was no testing for it. Nor was there testing for most of 1989. In 1990 the UCI started looking for it and Lemond was back to back of the pack.
@@fredman1085
Because Ferrari was not his doctor. Because he was not busted for steroids(and later discovered that they pretended that it was steroid cream for saddle soreness.) Because nobody wrote a book saying that Lemond did blood doping in his camper-on the side of a race. Because no one testified hearing Lemond tell a doctor that he took illegal drugs. Because Lemond did not crush the peloton up the Alps-seated with his mouth closed. ;) Because Lemond did not later admit it-like Armstrong.
That is why why why nobody questions the miraculous improvement of Lemond in 1989.
Oh FYI I am an ER nurse. Just google "how to treat lead poisoning" and "chelation therapy" (Low Iron level baseline can lead to 33% more lead in blood from exposure.)
YOU ARE WELCOME.
And now the Tour is a drag race from the first day to the last; the riders are not juiced? Right.
Guys, hate to break it to you but doping in cycling has been going on for a while. Wholesale since about the mid 70s. Some teams were taking more and others were taking less. The etiquette (at least in the Spanish teams,) the Gentlemen Agreement, before that was that ONLY the leader of the team was clear to take stuff. Eventually more money came into the picture and that mutated into everyone in the team having to juice up. I know this because there was a case of a Spanish team back in the late 70s/early 80s whose squad leader was taking juiced up Optalidons (the ones sold in Spain in the late Franco era,) prescribed for his grandmother, when racing the big mountain passes. He even won a few stages and when interviewed, he sounded high as a kite. I kid you not!
I remember that story was run because there was a police investigation at the time (something to do with the terrorist group ETA) and his grandmother got busted for drug peddling. The news only made local newspaper media, but then again, at the time, ETA were killing people daily, so the doping story went completely unnoticed. It did, however, catch my attention because my own grandmother was taking Optalidons at the time and I remembered how high she used to get 10-15 minutes after taking them.
I would be extremely careful with LeMond... he sounds to me like the quintessential (crackhead) drug addict oddly over interested in helping the cops/the media catch the other crackheads. He's the Snoop Dogg of the doping business: always immersed in some police investigation but never goes to jail (meaning he's the snitch). Remember, when someone points a finger at someone, he/she's got 3 fingers pointing back at themselves.
Him with hinault for sure
Why does Greg look like Rick Flair?
Doping just destroyed any legitimacy the sport had. Even now there are questions & riders still testing positive for other drugs they are using trying to get around the ban so teams & riders are still trying to & are ok with cheating that is the problem.
They need to reinstate all cycling records. It was a dope show. Like Marilyn Manson sings 'we're all stars in the dope show...'. Cycling is rotten, but it is fine. Very much entertainin'.
No. Your missing the point, how many great talents/young kids with dreams never made it out of domestic racing, missed out on results or stuck mid pack because the average pace by the dopers inceased. Thier titles should be placed below the local pubs pissers.
@@justinkennedy1745 nah, get them all on the sauce. Intertainin'.
@@kalaharikreef7371 nothing entertaining about it.
@@justinkennedy1745 ok
The guys at the top were all treated, it always happened from Ancient Greece days, it's still happening and will always happen, but the only one used as scapegoat during his career to sell a fake clean up was Pantani.
LeMond won 3 individual stages and won the Tour 3 times: 1986, 1989, 1990. During any of those years not a single rider in the Tour peloton failed a drug test. However in future testing 31% of the riders that took part in the 1986 Tour tested positive, 32% of the riders in the 1989 race tested positive, and 37% of the riders taking part in the 1990 Tour tested positive. You'd have to make a decision here, either nobody doped during the 1986/89/90 Tours - but oddly 1/3 the peloton doped and was caught in subsequent races, or the doping tests weren't any good, or the test results were hidden.
Do some real research on this guy and there is only one logical conclusion.
Well, compared to EPO which was introduced in the early nineties, the drugs in use before were far less effective, so a natural talent with a high VO2Max would be able to compete against dopers. EPO was just so far ahead of anything else when it comes to endurance sports that your abduction is simply faulty.
Now, if your point was that pro cycling has always been infested by doping, including Mercks et al, then, sure. But your generalisation is just that -- a generalisation.
Most riders were taking speed. Wasn't really considered doping.
no one is saying that riders didn't dope prior to 1991. guys were using stimulants to compete in endurance races as far back as the 1920's. but they weren't doing EPO.
stimulants give you "energy" but they also impact your judgement and in cycling, which is all about efficiency that doesn't translate to direct results.
steroids help you recover from training but won't raise your absolute aerobic capacity. if your body can already handle a 30 hour training week, the steroids won't make you much faster.
EPO raises your red blood cell count and gives you as much as a 13% improvement in measurable aerobic performance. it's a game changer. in my heyday I was a Cat 2 duffer with a FTP around 4.8W/kg if I did everything perfectly. I'd crack the top ten or top 5 at some regional races every season but I wasn't going to win without a lot of luck. If I started doping with EPO, I'd have moved up to 5.5 W/kg and would have been courted by low-level pro teams.
but for the real pros, even 5% is a massive performance gain. Lemond was a space alien when he came onto the scene as a teenager, unreal talent, won everything. He went from dominating the sport to not being able to hang on over a period of 2-3 seasons and it isn't because he slowed down.
@@chappell721 Well put. Chapeau!
I began following pro cycling, especially the Tour, in 1993 at the age of 12, so I never experienced the before and after effect of EPO on the pro peloton as a spectator and I'd probably have been too young to get there ever was a difference, so imagine my heartbreak in 1998 when it all came crashing down. And as a Dane, Riis' undeniable look of guilt and later admission essentially ended my passion for the sport for a long time. Armstrong obviously enhanced that as it was beyond obvious he wasn't a bread and water rider.
Have a look at LeMond’s history as a junior and before turning pro. I think a lot of people claiming LeMond doped might not be aware of how good he was as a youngster. Either he does have exceptional physical gifts as he has said or he was doping etc. from when he was a teenager. Then look at what happened to him in the early 90s. Why would he suddenly be unable to keep up with average pros if he was doping like everyone else? It seems more likely given his results over time that he is exceptional and then got blown away when EPO was rife in the peloton.
lol tour de Lance. FQ yea Greg
Put Lemond on a lie detector test , he wouldn’t do it !
It is a huge coincidence that EPO hit the peloton at the same time as "iron injections".
Also remember that LANCE FRIGGING ARMSTRONG IS THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME.!!!!!
100% The greatest cheat of all time. Way better than Barry bonds. Although HE DID NOT WIN A SINGLE TOUR DE FRANCE. Sad.
He's the greatest c*** of all time.
LeMond reveals how he won time trials and almost won the tdf, but everyone else (but him) was taking EPO...lol, guy is f'in joke
Everything prior to EPO must merely be considered as a bit of fun to gain an advantage. "Clean" to them may have meant not-on-EPO-but-on-everything-else that was available at the time. Mr LeMond should start a bridge-sales business, if he hasn't got one already.
@@blinkybagger8342 yup, I’ve seen interviews with Armstrong where he stated EPO was worth 10%! So this guy is telling me he was 10% stronger than the 2nd best guy in the world?!??! Do people understand how much 10% is?!?, it’s huge! Recent average TDF speeds have been higher than the Armstrong era!!! When everyone has admitted to doping. Are we to believe bike technology and nutrition is worth 50+ watts?, it’s laughable…. It’s amazing people don’t wake up to what is obvious to anyone with a brain. Mind you, I don’t even care, just tired of the “not me” stuff
LeMond is the greatest cyclist of all-time. I said what I said.
Both interviews with Lemond are fascinating, but I wish an exercise physiologist could explain how he improved so rapidly in the 1989 Giro d'Italia final stage. It seems unlikely that the iron injections described in Sports Illustrated would have worked that rapidly, but the lead poisoning from the hunting accident would have lowered ferritin levels. A scientific explanation would help Lemond's credibility. Or, if a doctor prescribed a blood transfusion, then it would be best if he is open about it.
Not sure what was happening in Europe but in the USA all professional sports were heavily invested in PED's (steroids), NFL, NHL and MLB and everyone involved was making Significant $$$. With all the fame and $$$, how could anyone NOT do drugs and compete at the top.
LeBron too?
I like Greg, but I believe there's a bit of a misconception about his victories. For instance, his win in the 1989 Tour de France had elements of fortune. Pedro Delgado compromised his own chances by arriving late to the prologue and the team's poor performance in the Team Time Trial, resulting in a significant time loss in the first few stages. Furthermore, LeMond capitalized on a declining Laurent Fignon. In 1990, the dynamics within the Banesto team also played a role; they continued to support Delgado over Miguel Indurain, who, many believe, had a clear shot at winning that year. By 1991, it appeared that the peak era for cyclists born around 1960 had passed, and it did. It was over for them.
bs
:) This was THE moment for me.......th-cam.com/video/p7AWYKwsvHk/w-d-xo.html
Asterix 😂
dawn of growing a boiler
So we have to believe what Greg say's ?? He beat Dopers clean huh ??
That's right.
yeah, he was THAT good...
Didn't realise Chris Tarrant was into pro cycling.
Greg finished THRID in the ITT only 48 seconds behind a juiced up Indurain over a 1:11 ITT...AFTER 20 DAYS OF RACING IN THE HEAT!
Sure you were natural Greg!! Sure you were lol.
Greg was winning the TdF years before EPO came along, so I don't know what kind of argument you're trying to make.
Is that all your argument? weak man.
Smalltimer. Armstrong fan. Trumpy.
You'd think Lemond could afford a better connection and a nicer background, was he in his garage or something ?
The Springbok rugby team are on steroids...can no one else see the sudden increase in lean, muscle, bulk, athletic performance and especially recuperation after muscle injuries??? Why is no one speaking about this?
the last one to not get got.....
Wonder how many tours he would have won if EPO was never introduced? 4? 5?
More than 3 anyway
We'll never know
@@Damian-eh9vl he actually talks about this in the full iinterview!
How many without being shot or playing domestic while the superior rider.
And that's a good thing.
EPO was the scurge of the industry for so long ...
The fact that everyone has, still to this day debates 'what if's', or 'who was', or 'what results were legit' endorses everything wrong with EPO.
The fact that people still justify it with 'everybody was doing it' is pure denial and just plain insulting intelligence.
i read Lemond was given steroids to help his recovery by doctors after he was shot in the 1986 hunting accident.. and lets not forget how the US cycling federation coaches were later accused by at least 3 former riders of administering PED`s to them in the 1990s, and its very likely most teams did that to help their riders perform better prior to the introduction of EPO and blood doping... so that being said while Lemond might not have ever knowingly taken any PEDs i think its more likely that he still did receive a number of them at points during his cycling career under the guise that he was receiving safe and legal vitamins...
If Greg was given steroids as part of his medical treatment while out of competition, that should be 100% legit, especially back in those days.
People say none of what you read is true
They certainly had therapeutic use and medical exemptions in the 80s, given that testing for dope was already a thing and widespread doping and attempts at testing regimes were prevalent in every other sport
Kurt just making stuff up that he read about Lemond being given steroids. That never happened. Otherwise, he would’ve referenced the article.
I call bs cite something specific or so not say anything. Lemond almost always had one bad day to overcome in his victories. So did Fignon and Hinault. The dopers rarely ever had a bad day with Floyd Landis being the only one l recall. Greg also was recognized as a genetic freak as a young teenager. The dopers didn't show nearly as much promise until they were adults on the juice.
Greg makes me realize that professional athlete must also be a professional lier. Greg is a great fictitious story teller
Gregs stammering and odd talk off cadence makes him hard to listen
Is he stammering or is it a bad connection ? Certainly makes it painful to watch.
He has a bit of a communication disorder due to ADHD.
Christ get your words out Greg