Get This Wrong and You'll Destroy Your Engine! | Piston Ring Gaps [FREE LESSON]
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- Correctly setting your piston ring end gaps is just 1 of 17 essential steps during the assembly process of your high-performance engine.
With aftermarket pistons, the ring packs that are supplied are typically what is referred to as a 'file fit' ring, which are rings that are supplied in an oversized form and it's then the engine builders task to file and correctly set the ring gaps for their specific engine build.
If the end gaps are set too tight the rings can end up butting together as they expand from heat causing critical engine failure. If the ring gaps are set too large they can cause excessive blow-by, increased oil consumption and also a loss of engine power.
We cover how to correctly set your gaps using both an electric and manual ring filer.
Want to learn the 16 other steps? Start with our next free live introduction to engine building webinar here - bit.ly/LiveEngi...
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this is just soo well done...coming from a really basic intrdouction, to mentioning details very clearly...thank you for the great vid XD
Thanks BK :) This is pulled from our Engine Building Courses. :) - Ben
The entire HP academy courses are just so amazing and I thank you guys for taking the time to properly demonstrate these procedures
Another very good video.
Good point about the deck/honing plate - never considered it before.
I really don't like re-ringing engines that have done some work, but if you do, be aware that there will often be a bit of a taper (perhaps as much as 3 thou) and as most wear occurs to the top of the bore, this means the ring gap closes up 3.14 times the difference at the bottom - may not be significant for slight wear/taper but something to bear in mind as that end-gap can disappear in a hurry!
The piston method works well (and that shim tool is neat - haven't seen one before!) but some will have a dome shape that hits the ring - if so, turn it upside down and use the skirt base - it is normally the same depth both sides.
With some vehicles, 'file to fit' or 'race' rings may be unavailable or hard to find - just order the next oversize rings with the pistons. The difference on ring drag is negligible and even 10 thou oversize rings will have a nominally 31 though closer gap - you may actually need to file them even to get them in the cylinder for initial measurement. As the chap said, check the clearance spec' with the manufacturer and bear in mind the application as hotter rings will expand more.
Have you done/considered doing one on ring materials and applications?
Oh, what's with all this "inches" and "thou" shit? We've been officially metric since before you were born ;-)
Lot of work goes into this presentation, I'll get greasy and learn the hard way.
Good work! You cannot learn by osmosis, you need to use knowledge like this and then also put it into action for sure =) Enjoy! - Taz.
Damn.. those blocks are more open than the open deck ej's
Thanks for sharing. Good content. I would suggest cleaning the ring and de-burr if necessary after making adjustments. Helps to keep any metal shavings or possibly damaging the bore when test fitting. @9:52. One Love 👊🏾🇯🇲
Well done!! About time somebody explains it thoroughly
pro tip, watch at 1.25 or 2x speed
Once you're at 4x you're a pro ;) - Taz.
Fuck this tip is better than the info in the video
My Dad used to gap them normally like this then he would do a final measurement after heating the rings in boiling water to about 90*C
(approx running temp without combustion - Intake stroke for eg)
That room is insanely clean and minimalistic
Is it really necessary to use torque plate when gaping rings if it was bored/honed using one?
Maybe you can measure the shape of the cylinder with and without a torque plate? It would also be really useful to know, how to measure cylinder diameter to determine it's exact size and shape, if it's egg shape or not.
Give me thumbs up guys, so he makes the video!
If you have the plate then by all means use it but if you dont then you will be ok.I do tend to go on the larger end of the spec if i'm not doing it with the plate though and I'll also check them in sever spots in the bore either way.Another option I used before plates where available or on odd ball engines is to bolt a head on and check from the bottom if its possibly,it wont work on all engines but a lot of times it will and if it has stretch bolts just use a old set for this.As far as measuring the bore goes I use a bore gauge that is worth its weight in gold.There may be other ways but I've found its best and when you consider the cost of a project a proper one is a small investment.
Also if using a head I'll install a piston(preferably old one) upside down in the bore and use a piece of string around the pin to pull it up and down to size the rings.If using a old piston you can also cut it down around the skirt etc to help.
Thanks for advises! Have you tried measuring cylinder diameter with a plate/head and without. I'm very curios what would be the difference. :)
No problem, yes on some motors i have seen the difference from a plate and no plate.Not all engines deflect the same amount and some really dont at all.It was only a few tenths of a thousandth of a inch so you might not see it with a thousandths indicator but it is there more often than not.
What engine are you dealing with?I might have seen one or it may be a easy engine to make a plate for.If you havent started yet making a plate before might be a cool project too.
I don't work on anything, can't afford atm. Just interested.
We need an "end gap" counter haha. Nice vid!
Could be a good Friday beers drinking game I reckon =) - Taz.
Extremely well presented.
Thank you very much, this was helpful and easy to follow.
Yup,that's what I like about dude,breaks it down in a way to easily understand.
Appreciate the video, but very important information such as knowing how much gap to have is what leaves me not confident enough to get the entire course.
Hey there Ralmsib, come along to the free live lesson, this is discussed: www.hpacademy.com/free-engine-building-lesson/
Your aftermarket rings are supplied with a range of gaps depending on your application, you don't have to pull number out of thin air ;) - Taz.
@@hpa101 just signed up for engine building academy video thanks for link
Excellent video. Thank you!
Blade !!! It’s called a feeler gauge .great info reminds me of the days in TAFE
Gaz Girl in the us yes
Great video Andre...👍
Thank you!
Hmm why the dislikes.i found video was pretty cool an dudes trying to give info.ya the deburring,lol.but still cool.video,thank you for all your videos.I appreciate them an always seem to learn or find something I didnt know.Thanks again.
Nice Video Andre
This is super one.
how do you gap them without fancy grinders?
You can use a manual ring file. Where the eclectic ones are awesome is in a workshop where you are doing a high volume of ring filing. There is nothing wrong with manual ones at all 😎
I think you should see one making an appearance in this video: www.hpacademy.com/blog/how-you-can-file-piston-ring-gaps-free-lesson/
And here: www.hpacademy.com/technical-articles/engine-building-tools-the-essentials-and-desirables/#4
Hope that helps @Dong - Taz.
While checking the new compression rings in the cylinder bore, and the gap measures in tolerance, can I just install them ?
Great video, thank you for doing it.
Cheers. Really informative 👍
Glad it was helpful!
What is the standard ring gap which one can apply please advise
There is no one size fits all ring gap for every and any engine. That is why your rings come with a spec sheet that consider different fuels and induction options.
If you are fitting stock rings to a stock engine then that info is in your workshop manual instead.
Hope that helps - Taz.
I think 10 thou on a turbo'd engine is a little bit tight and could cause problems. I gap my rings on non turbo engine's with 3 to 3.5" pistons the top one 15 to 18 thou and second ring 18 to 22 thou. But it depends on what the engine is getting used for. Bigger if Nitrous is going to be used. Never had any problems with blow by, but I have had piston land failure cause of ring butting up and causing piston failures? Due to customer not telling me he used Nitrous was why the failure occurred. Excess heat?
Taz Grant second ring should have less clearance ? Less heat and no need for a bigger gap shouldn't top be 18 to 22 and 2nd 15 to 18?
Reason for slightly bigger ring gap in second ring is to stop ring flutter at high revs. Lose of power and excessive blow by is often the consequence of ring flutter. Having bigger gap helps to minimize flutter.
Am I missing something here? The aim was around 14 thou? At about 6:50 in the video this is discussed. The initial measurement was 10 thou and I'd agree this is too tight for that particular bore diameter.
Hey Andy, a few decades back the general trend was to gap the second ring tighter since it won't be exposed to as much heat. More recently however the trend has reversed. the reason is that there will always be some amount of blowby past the top ring. We use a larger ring gap on the second ring to allow this to escape into the crankcase. If it builds up between the rings it can destabilise the top ring which hurts ring seal dramatically.
learn some thing new everyday even if you are tought some thing in one way theres always another theory or method ....
how do i know whats the correct gap of the rings for my engine? 1.6 N18 jcw 211hp
This is why I always check endgap after the motor gets back from the machine shop. Trust nothing.
Can I use 1mm gap or is that too much?
Amazing video quality
High performance piston and rings , I just did a rebuild 2000 miles ago heads cylinders pistons rings . out of the box piston and rings , piston is 3.505.0 cylinder bore is 3.508.0 New rings gap was pre cut to .028 top .034 second oil ring gap was.060 I used them at 2000 miles I was getting blow by , I did a quick hone flex hone , used a micrometer with bore check my cylinder top center bottom in 4 place + my number are at .003th between cylinder and piston , I have ordered 2 sets of rings .010 over and they are worse than the first set .034 top .040 center and .045 oil ring. If I order plus .020 ring set 3.518 can I file them to the book spec of .017th -.022th top ring , .024th max ring 2 , oil ring .034th max so I do not get more run around from the seller .
I'll build anything, but recently I found some neat tidbits regarding a Briggs 40 and 49 cube v twin.
The 40 I had was an early version , the 49 was a late version.
Same engine family , bore size is different.
Rods and crank should be the same (except for early and late style)
I was putting a rod assembly in the 49, and happened to look at the 40 and got a brainstorm.
I busted out the scale and found out the 40 wristpins were 15 grams lighter than the 49.
And about the same on the rods.
So I swapped em in.
I didn't run it before , but it seems to spin up nicely with the lighter stuff.
4:10, anyone have the link to that tool? I can’t find it anywhere
You can use a piece of cut aluminum.
The cylinders need an oil film on the walls before inserting the rings?
yes, you can oil the rings
Fresh bore , fresh rings ...
Give this stuff a shot, it's awesome.
www.summitracing.com/parts/tsr-qs
Just use a little bit of oil on the ring lands and make the rings just tacky and use that stuff on the bore.
It's never let me down.
Thanks mate 👍
That head in the background... Is that from one of Subarus H12's??
No that's a Toyota head, 1hz I believe - Taz.
I don't why I find this so infuriating but it's a metric designed motor, your in a metric system country yet you're referencing bore sizing and ring gap in imperial just gets my goat up over then that mint video chur bro
The majority of our members are US based, and there is always a lot of crossover between metric and imperial when it comes to anything vehicle related so it is something you will want to get used to ideally ;) - Taz.
I get the crossover daily in the industry over here in Oz Im trying to get used to it still annoys me after 15 years
shit, wish u made this video a few years ago, thinking about it, thats where that sudden loss in compression probably came from
if the ring ends touch then they would scratch the crap out of the bore hey?
A scratch would be best case. It can cause a chunk of your piston get pulled off by the ring being forced up due to the pressure. From there it will go for a ride around the combustion chamber. You'll know exactly where due to all the damage 😢- Taz.
How much your piston ring filer
Total Seal unit isn't cheap, I think we might have paid around six or seven hundred US from memory. Manual filer was much cheaper but unsure on price of that either. Check in with your local supplier - Taz
@@hpa101 ok how much and cost of shipping fee here in philippines
We don't sell tools - Taz.
Gepping the rungs
Where did you the the ring locator tool?
We get a lot of gear from Summit Racing - Taz.
Hi guys, I need help ASAP, please. I have Wiseco pistons, bore 83,5mm. Top ring, second ring and bottom oil "sandwich" rings layer (1 normal, 1wavy and last normal). The fact according to the Wiseco chart, the top ring gap is smaller than the secong ring and according to my factory manuel the gap of the top ring is less than the second. What do you think? Thanks for all your contributions.
It’s been a while since I’ve built a drag/performance engine however, you always want your top compression ring to be looser then the bottom(2nd) compression ring. This is simply because of the thermal expansion, the top ring(1st ring) will always be hotter then the one(2nd ring) further away from the combustion chamber. So hotter ring = more gap, cooler ring = less gap.
@@martindworak Thanks. Finally I've done that too ;)
Hi, how is it going with 1uz engine?
Your past engine was making 450whp, but you have never talked about heads. What cam spec, springs, valve size and port job was done to it to get to this power level.
Any chance you can tell us ( if you know) what cams and spring u had In there?
thanks
We didn't build the other engine sorry, it came with the car and has since been replaced by an SR20VE, not due to a long term plan, just due to engine failure, Rona, and an unmotivated engine builder leaving us out to dry (the SR20VE is what we had on hand built and ready to go).
We have done a number of videos on it all, check out the Vlog series from 2020 - Taz.
@@hpa101 thanks, have never seen cam spec, any chance you can share spec of them ?
I'll see if I can find out for you, but if note note it was built for the previous owner by Hartley Racing Engines here in New Zealand, and they build a lot of these UZ's for spec series motorsport. They would have all the details for sure - Taz.
Awesome! Thank you)
I love you!
The 3 little words! We love you too! XD Glad you're enjoying our content =) - Taz.
What does "tin thao" mean? 14:38
“Ten thou”, short for ten thousandth(of an inch).
@@chriswilson433 woww nice, 8 months :)
Ha! I didn’t want to leave you hanging.
I've never once learned anything from these videos it's unfortunate that people actually pay you guys money
Weird flex, but OK. Glad you already know it all 🤘
For others (you can scroll through the comments) who weren't born like you with a head already full of knowledge, material like this helps them learn 🤓
There will be a channel out there for you, hope you find it - Taz.
whats the proper gab size?
well done,sound like a kiwi.
He's baked.,.!!!
It was an almost fatal case of man flu. I promise! 😇
B
Man that's a tiny motor !
That's just half-ish of it, but yes the FA20 is not huge even once fully assembled =) - Taz.
I don't think he ever goes home.
media1.tenor.com/images/d0de60acc1786f271bf6f23025eca20d/tenor.gif?itemid=10742301
what, am i paying for youtube videos?
Not sure what you mean there sorry. This one is free, but it's only a very small part of one of our paid courses 🤓 - Taz.
Boring