Does a Cheap DVD Player Sound Better Than a $1500 CD Transport?!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2021
- In this video, I explain if there is a difference between a $6 DVD player from Goodwill or a $1500 CD Transport from Primare. Check it out!
Primare DD15: primare.net/
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I would challenge you to do this comparison with a blu ray player that isn't probably in poor condition from goodwill. A Sony UBP X800 is $150, runs quieter and also supports SACD and DVD-A. You'll have to convince me there is a $1,350 difference in fidelity because I'm not so sure. Using a $6 piece of junk is not the same as using an "affordable" but nice and capable unit that runs quieter with less vibration.
I will have to try it out sometime
The Sony price is now $288 on amazon, getting close to the price of the excellent (apparently) Audiolab 6000CDT..
@The Turd Reich of Mar-A-Lago
The quality of the DAC and analogue path in the CD/DVD/BluRay player matters more than the mechanism as far as sound goes. There's a reason some people mod them with better capacitors, opamps, and the like. Isolating the digital noise from the analogue paths is important to.
Although if you're using S/PDIF.. it doesn't matter.
I just did a video testing a Marantz CD6007 against a Sony UBP-X700. The Sony Doesn't have it's own DAC so I just used it as a transport. The amp I used was a Marantz PM6007. There was absolutely no difference in sound between the two, zip, zero, nada!
@@UTILITARIANTVUK curious what dac did you use with the Sony.ive got that sony but I've replaced psu with a linear toroidal psu..im sure it improved picture and sound quality.
When you use digital out, sound quality is 100% identical. But drive noise is an important factor that should not be overlooked. A good CD player has silent operation. You don't want your digitally perfect sound ruined by engine noise.
Around 25 years ago, I had a very good hifi system, including a £1800 CD player. I did not have a DVD player. After an evenings attentive listening session with an old friend, he commented on my lack of DVD player. 2 days later he visited again. This time, baring gifts. A DVD player he had purchased from Tesco for £15! This unit was huge and extremely heavy. Bigger and heavier than one of the class A/B monoblocks I have in my current system. It was housed in a rugged, if not somewhat industrial, all metal chassis. I plumbed it into my system using a cheap RCA cable I had lying around.
I put a CD in my £1800 CD player and a duplicate CD in the £15 Tesco DVD player and synchronised them. Could I hear a difference? Yes, but very subtle. The level of clarity from the £1800 CD player was marginally better.
This was well before the age where stand alone DACs were the in thing. So I was employing the internal DAC on each unit. I then swapped the RCA cables, connect in the cheap one I had lying to my £1800 CD player and the better quality? Cable to the £15 DVD player. This only served to slightly erode that already marginal differential.
25 years later, my hifi system is a substantial upgrade on that old set up. It utilises a CD transport, a Blu-ray player and stand alone DAC. Have I repeated that experiment? Of course I have, many times, with many friends. Is there a difference? Yes. But so insignificant that I very much doubt that in a blind A/B test I could accurately identify each player. Oh, and the Blu-ray player displays far more on screen meta data from the CD than the CD player does.
Absolutely agree with you! I did a million tests, and I can say that "Dedicated CD player sounds better!" is a BULLSHIT! No one, I repeat, NO ONE EVER could hear any difference between a cheap DVD player and an expensive CD player with a "better DAC"! No one was able to find where plays WHAT in a blind test! But this guy is talking about a difference between transports! What a NONSENSE! Should I remind that, in my tests, a DVD player was connected through a cheap RCA cable and used an internal DAC?! YES! ALL CD/DVD players SOUND THE SAME! Every DAC sounds the SAME! Those audiophiles CAN'T find their super-puper DACs and CD players in a blind test! They sound "perfect" when they know which is playing right now, and they are 100% sure that a DVD player sounds "HORRIBLE"! But why the hell they can't find that horrible sound in a blind test?! Hi-End is a myth! What sounds better? Expensive speakers! Connect to them WHATEVER you want and get your Hi-END! Cheap player, cheap cables and you're ready to go! So easy!
P.S. I used to work as Sony/Yamaha technician.
So just curious if i was to buy a cheap sony dvd player and hook up an external dac to it does it matter what speakers im hooking it up too mainly for listening to cds?like could i just use a good soundbar?@NazimAlizade
@@superunknown2812 in my humble Experion, as tv panels become slimmer and slimmer, so they come with space constrictions for including a decent audio system. Soundbars will offer an improvement, and expensive soundbars can offer a considerable improvement. Vut, soundbars are generally designed to sit under your tv, so they themselves are size constricted. So, I think, pound for pound, dollar for dollar, you’ll get better performance from a speaker system. They are not size constrained. Unless you’re contemplating a major investment in your sound system, I wouldn’t worry about making an external DAC a priority. In my experience, a good pair of speakers will make more difference than an upgraded DAC.
The build quality of the player is certainly a factor in how smooth & quiet the transport operates but does not necessarily impact the data quality being output from the machine. If the two players sound different, then "color" is being introduced somewhere in the stream. This could be from a player incorrectly reading and introducing errors into the data, or it could be the player intentionally adding color (eg DSP enhancements) to the original signal. Either type of color deviates from the original recording. A transport's only job is to transfer the original data as flawlessly as possible to the DAC. Listening tests, while important to the user, really do not answer the question of how well a transport does its job. In the end, it really does come down to 1's and 0's when looking at transports. How closely does the digital data stream read & output by the transport match the original data stream? If there is a difference between two transports, one (or both) are altering the signal from the original. The only way to answer which is more accurate would be to compare the transport-read data to the data on the CD. It could be that the one that sounds better has more color. Just because it sounds better, doesn't mean it's accurate to the original. In the end, buy what satisfies your ears and budget.
I just swapped out my old school Sony carousel 5 CD changer for a relatively new Panasonic Bluray/HDD recorder and while there is imperceptible difference between the Spdif optical connections the analogue output from the Sony is so much better. Having dedicated hardware is always going to provide better sound imo
If they're not faulty they should sound the same through a decent DAC (mechanical noises from the motor and/or fan aside). However, without doing a blind ABX test there can be many psychological effects. Perhaps the mechanical noises could be the cause of the bass problem - try putting the player in a different room.
Theory and practice are not the same.
The mindset that made you state "I am More than sure the Primare will be better" made me think "this A-B comparison is clearly biased towards one item before it began"
It was assumption, I've learned since then never to make those in audio. Thanks for the feedback and pointing that out. It was a mistake that wouldn't happen today.
@@mykandrew Yes, i suppose we can't help make assumptions, especially when there's a large'ish price difference or when a look inside shows 1 item has clearly better components & build. I've often been surprised tho.. (esp' when i bought only s/h vintage gear) ..& looked under the hood to expect, say, amp' A will be easily better than Amp B but listening had proved otherwise, then i'd wonder if it was synergy that made a difference. Good luck
Hello techie (not audiophile) here in need of giving an opinion.
I think what you said on noise and low end performance is physically impossible. But more on that later.
I am not arguing that the Primare is not a good machine. As you said it's built and engineered very well. Probably even massively over-engineered. It's probably going to last more that a lifetime.
I am also not arguing that the Primare isn't better than the Sony. Again, the build is outstanding and the sony is loud.
As you even said yourself, bits are bits.
As far as I know, digital over coax uses PCM and that works like this: samples are taken for every X amount of time, then digitized and sent over the cable. Because of this it is impossible to have normal high-end but bad low-end. If anything high-end would be more difficult to represent.
The only thing that can go wrong with digital audio is when the rate at which the data is send, is not constant. But that would be very noticeable.
Also how can a digital signal have noise?
The only way I could explain your findings is that there was some sort of power noise from the sony that messed with your amp (highly unlikely).
I would expect the digital samples output by the sony and the Primare to be exactly the same.
You could test that with an ocilloscope.
Can you also please record snippets from your amp (over cable to a recorder) and compare them in audacity?
Math is math… the bits are for the entire waveform, so “treble” or “bass” being independently affected is impossible. Without doing a double-blind test, his testing ends up being nothing more than opinion based on confirmation bias. However, there is nothing wrong with buying high end, well built equipment. No need to justify it.
There's things to dissect here. The difference in mechanism, old vs. new should immediately inform you this isn't a test between equals. A noisy transport is off putting.
If the mechanisms were in equivalent condition, then we might have a bit fairer test. As it stands, you compared two devices in dissimilar condition, and that's not an objective test.
Most of the heavy lifting for quality audio boils down to these factors,
• the relative cleanness of the power supply output.
• the condition, speed / tracking accuracy of the tray mechanism
• the laser and mirror condition
• the DAC and audio components.
You've only eliminated the later with your SPIDF connection. All the other factors affect the quality of output.
It seems to me you picked a 20 year old mule and ran it against a 5 year old quarter horse and then declared the quarter horse the better of the two.
Bottom line:
Cheap DVD player into good DAC sounds fine but goes clunk, thwap, and some spinning disc noise.
Player costing 250 times as much, into good DAC sounds fine but goes fwip, muffled thunk, and silence.
Pretty sharp knee in that cost vs. performance curve. ;)
Maybe give the Primare too big blue VU meters, and sell it for $3500? The 'discerning' listeners will place advance orders, and deliberate which available DAC is worthy of it. [full stop]
Mike, can you make a video about cassettes? I’d like to know which player I should use
The difference is the DAC. You can buy an amazing DAC for a few hundred dollars and a cheap DVD player that will net something every bit as good.
That is only true unless you are using toslink
So I was actually thinking about this (sort of) recently. I’m sure I’m not the first to consider this. Back in my youth when I was buying cds regularly I used to rip them to the computer but unfortunately it was in wma format which is unfortunate for a number of reasons. Anyway I started to re rip the cds I still have in wav format and it made me wonder. Firstly does the disc drive you use when you rip the cds affect the final quality of the file? Secondly if let’s say a budget cd player/transport is all that is available would there be a noticeable difference playing the ripped cd files from a hard drive vs playing the cd through a budget player/transport even if using an external dac?
How does the digital out from the Sony work ? Does it go from a digital signal on the CD to analog and back to digital ? Or does it go from digital on the CD to the digital coax out ?
I think It would also be more interesting if you filmed the actual testing.
I'd be interested to see a comparison of an older full chassis Sony dvd player from around 1999-2004 before they went with half chassis and cheap materials. These are also at Goodwill for $6. I'm guessing that player will be closer to the Primare due to possibly better PS and isolation.
I bought a Sony DVD player in 1999 for $500. Once Blu-ray showed up I used the DVD player as my CD player, only playing CD’s on it. After 22 years it started to have tracking problems. So I bought an $800 Marantz CD player, which in todays money, means they cost about the same. EVERYBODY said I would hear new things with the Marantz that I had never heard before. I was surprised to find this was not true for me, as it sounded no different than the DVD player. I guess the DVD player was far better than the cheap CD players people were used to hearing. The Marantz is a super quite player, but I honestly do not hear a difference through headphones using the same Yamaha amp.
@@spiritualarchitect4276 the yamaha is a Receiver or an amp? If it's a Receiver it will normalize volume and the headphone out will be underpowered making it very hard to notice slight differences. If both players were used with COAX or Optical and you don't have high end gear, it will sound the same to your ears. Especially if you are close to 40 years old like myself. In short, for 95% of the people it will sound the same.
@@RafaelPernia Interesting. My Yamaha is an Advantage home theater unit using Monster RCA cables. I was thinking about getting a Yamaha amp just for music, like the AS -1200 that has a dedicated headphone amp. AND getting a pair of Focal Clear MG headphones. Maybe music will sound better that way? I say maybe because you brought up old age hearing. I was listening to music loud on headphones the other day and I noticed a snap crackle sound in the right channel every time the music reached a high pitch. I figured I had a headphone problem from playing the music too loud. The next day I listened to music in my car. I have a two-seater sports car with a subwoofer and music in that small cabin sounds great. When the music reached a high peak, I heard that snap crackle sound again in my right ear. Good news, the headphones are fine. I am 66 and I guess my high frequency hearing is going out. Do you think with a dedicated music amp and high-end headphones I will be able to hear the difference?
@@spiritualarchitect4276 probably not. There is a range frequency test her ein you tube where you can see for yourself how much you've lost. We are getting old so Let's focus on what was exciting when we heard music on our teenage years. The feeling not the gear.
I have noticed that my dad brought a Sony blu ray it was cheap but didn't have good chassis on a plastic one. I have an earlier model s350 and it has a decent heavy metal chassis.
Great video. The hifi quality of music will not be appreciated on a TH-cam vid but it's probable the difference between 2 music sources will be evident. If you revisit this video please include the Sony sound vs the other machine (and present each sound) AS WELL AS use 2 DACs; these DACs can have major price differences so one wonders where the differences lie.
I’ve got a Panasonic Blu-ray run I f through the arc channel of my samsu g tv and my marantz nr1508 compact av receiver.
As it plays Blu-ray would it also play sacd and should I give it a go? (As opposed to delegating everything g with a whole new rack system with turntable and discrete amp? Thoughts - sensible o as please for a naive noob
I should add that the marantz is connected to 5.2 system. Made up of
1/ monitor audio bronze centre speaker
2/ rear monitor audio bronze x2
3/ front left/right wharfedale diamond 12
4/ two yaMaha NS 50 watt rms subs in the ‘wrong place’ ie next to the sitting position on either side of the sofa FACING tv rather than where you usually see them facing g the sitting section.
Does this affect things markedly.
I had a $4999 Sony SCD-1 that sounded "MEH". Had a Phillips/magnavox DVD player (Maybe $199) that sounded great.
Did you clean the lens on the Sony?
To be honest with you I doubt it, however I use basically the exact same Sony DVD player, although I bought mine new from Walmart, and it's fantastic.
I do believe that digital audio is more than just ones and zeros and it's the quality of the parts and the mechanisms and the drive as well as the power supply and everything coming together to create a difference in sound so I do understand that that is the case however my Sony sounds fantastic, loads quick, is all I can ask of it. Plus I started buying all these concert DVDs of like Pink Floyd and led Zeppelin and the Beatles and stuff and I've had a blast watching them and having the audio pipe through my DAC and into My Hi-Fi
There’s nothing wrong about the Sony dvd player
back then we had to use cds on a dvd player cuz there no way to listing to music on a tv back then now days we do lol
I have a Pioneer Elite DVD/SACD player that I use to play CDs. I bought it at a thrift shop with remote for $10 and looking on Pioneer website it was $1500 new and it does sound better than my Sony 5 disc carousel player.
I think carousel configs are never great. Too many moving parts.
This is informative content. Thanks👉👌🙂
Why cant you use digital audio recorder with pcm digital input and record same cd on both transports then compare on pc audio editing software ?
The last time I use for cd player a Sony bd-s6700 together with a dac Dynavox mini that cost 30 euro ( coaxial connector) and really the result is very good!
What about just ripping CD to hard drive? Can you detect a delta? I assume that if the files are the same size that both drives copied the exact same data and therefore the resultant files will sound the same when played back on the same equipment.
I do this but still like the sound better through my CD player using a digital coax, it is difficult doing the test by yourself though because I know I did the swap. However, all my CDs are transferred digitally now so that is my go to. Every once and a while I'll grab the CD though and I believe it sounds better? Oh, both go through my DAC.
They will sound different because data read from an HHD drive or SSD drive are much different than data read from an optical drive. This is why CD will always have the best imaging and best sound. Even if you take a 16/44.1khz wav file and make an audio CD and then make a data cd, the audio cd will sound superior because of the way it's encoded and read. I already tried all these experiments.
@@380stroker "They will sound different because data read from an HHD drive or SSD drive are much different than data read from an optical drive."
So if I open a text file directly from a CD I get "much different data" as I get if I first copy the file from CD to my hdd/ssd and open it from there?
Do you really believe that nonsense?
@@elkeospert9188 text file data is not audio. These are "hearing experiments" for you to conduct instead of acting like a goof ball.
@@380stroker " text file data is not audio"
A HDD/SSD does not know about text or audio files. It stores data in sectors of predefined size (typically 4 KBytes) and does not know (and not need to know) if these data is part of an wav-file, Excel-file, txt-File or whatever.
Why on earth should a copy of a 20 MB text file copied from to a hdd should be a one to one copy but a copy of an 20 MB audio file should be modified to make it "sound much different".
I did an A/B test between a 15 year old sony dvd and a Nakamichi CD4. The sony was connected thru coax and the Nakamichi thru RCA. Both to an old Sony receiver. I have two copies of some cds so I put the same cds on both at the same time and just flipped through the sources quickly with my eyes closed to do a blind test. I couldn't distinguish which was which. HOWEVER. I tried both with RCA to a pair of monitor speakers and then the Nakamichi was a clear winner.
I have an interesting question. At what price point do you think it would be more practical, sound wise, to go with a CD PLAYER, as opposed to a DAC/TRANSPORT?
This is a great question. There really is no rule of thumb since most of this is a subjective opinion. I believe you can find some true gems within the used market. I found a beautiful Magnavox for $120 that can far surpass players today at double the price. It's really a scavenger hunt for the right synergy. Now, if you have a really nice DAC which is a good component to have since most things are digital these days, any transport above 300-400 dollars should suffice.
I liked the idea of CD Transports but when the manufacture charges more for the same device after removing a costly component. The interest quickly evaporated. Yes there are some CD Transports with better features like quiet drives and low RF noise but nothing worth the asking price imo. Over the available options but for most people what they spend is more valid that what they get for it.
Ok so im at point where im looking for good solution to be able to listen music from my cds. I have audio pro a36 and the question is i should go for smtf like UBP x800 or cd transport or maybe for smtf even cheaper. I just wannt to make use of a36 and heaphones and cds. HLP ! : )
Get the Cambridge AXC35. Moderate in price and amazing in quality
@@mykandrew from what i see on pictures i cannot connect this with headphones, is that correct ?
If it's not a blind test then the results are pointless.
Try the same test with a top of the range Sony blu ray player (200-300 usd) used as a transport and you will probably get a very different experience.
I want to hear the difference, if I can’t hear it then the manufacturer needs to explain the 1500 price to me.
It makes sense to invest money into a really good DAC with a buffered re-clocker. This will return every extra bux you pay. Then there will be no difference.
I run a 20+ year old cd 💿 player as my dedicated cd drive for my audio set up ( headphones -IEM’s stack ) .
And it still flaws me as to how quiet it runs compared to modern day units .
Btw, it’s a Denon 3520 and it’s a BEAST🥳
You had many problems with DVD players lately? I’ve had problems with players where they skip a random frame here and there. When watching Onward on a certain Blu Ray player, I heard “step out of vehicle” when I should’ve heard “step out of the vehicle”, for example.
20 years ago a friend bought a used Sony XA7ES. He brought it over to play. I loved my Technics SLPS70 cd player. After a couple of hours of comparison I had to admit the Sony was FAR superior. We both could very noticeably hear the difference. Anyone that says all cd players sound the same is deaf.
I'd agree with that. The Sony equipment with ES on the end, stood for "Elevated Standard" and were always better built all round, to fine detail than far cheaper-made non 'ES' or 'ESD' Sony CDPs. I bought a 'Sony 557 ESD' player for £350 12'ish yrs back & It realigned my opinion of what CD players can do. It & other ES / ESD models have Copper chassis, (even copper screws!) superb build, solid Copper 3'mm sq' 3-rail bus bars to carry around the twin transformer's +/- voltage from entirely seperate digital & analog tranny / power supply sections, 18'Bit tho the 18 bit'ers are 16 Bit really, (they use the 2 extra bits as 'floating' to stop the old normal resolution drop that digital variable output increases in when playing at lower vollumes, (by basically throwing 'bits' away, otherwise) ...made early, 3 or 4 years into in CDs life & weighs, 21Kg, it's beat far more newer machines ive tried to this day (of G.B. £1000'ish max) i got it from eBay & has worked faultlessly for 12'ish years. Those older Sony "ES" or "ESD" & later the (not quite as elevated but very good) '..X ES' models would cost a lot to better now imo, mine was £350 but ive seen them sometimes ask (not sell yet but ask as b.i.n price) £1000 & + now, on eBay at least. Good for £400 - £500 in sensible auctions. The Some of the 'ESD & ES models are true battleship builds & prove CD quality isn't just about bit rates or bit depth alone. Vinyl is still my highest enjoyed sound quality tho.
I use an old Sony CD player, CDP-315, with a SPDIF Out to my DAC. Sounds great to me. I still need to compare the sound of the CD player's built in DAC. I'm just assuming a 2020 DAC is superior to a 96 DAC.
I would instinctively assume the opposite based on market and mass production.
i use to have the massive polk SDAs with a carver m1 amp and parasound preamp and the source was, wait for it ,,,,, a sony walkman professional and a sony discman . 😂
believe it or not it sounded fantastic . the walkman tape unit had Sendust heads used on pro machines and the Discman was accurate enough to give a good sound . when the salesman that sold me the Polks asked what my source would be and i told him, he nearly fell over . 😂
Si usas solo la salidad digital (Spdif) NO hay diferencias, tal vez en salida analógica.
I pick up used Harmon kardon disc players when I see them at goodwill.. clean maintain the heads best i can,worth it!
The basic premise is that a laser reads ones and zeros. There aren't better or worse ones and zeros. The rest is transport quality (like exact speed), and signal quality via wiring and DSP. This comparison is silly - compare a cheap DAP with a good one and no surprise.
I mostly stream music through a Gumby dac. I use an older Philips DVD player when I want to play discs using the Gumby. philips did invent the cd with Sony.
Bass…not Base
Cheers!
Lol😁😁😁👏
I like big mouth bass.
Thanks for taking the time to compare. I think you just used a crap DVD player. My Sony DVP-NS575P is dead quiet. The only noise it makes is the tray, and a barely audible whir for way less than a second as the cd spins up to speed. Even changing tracks makes no sound.
You with speakers in one room, and a friend running your cd players in another room. Blind test. You would not hear the difference, be honest. Post those results.
Ok since this video was almost 2 years ago when I started the channel I will revisit the subject. I'll make a video comparing cheap and expensive CD Players and finally put this discussion to bed.
It is what it is. The only explanation I can think is better transport and improved sampling is way one would pay the higher cost. My CD players have balanced outputs and it was an immediate difference from the unbalanced outputs.
The difference is in the signal strength only
You should do a double blind test
I use it as a bonus CD player for my home stereo
I’m using a Sony bd470 blu ray player via optical cable into a TEAC DAC/headphone amp. I like the quality of its cd playback. My expectations aren’t that high though.
Well I use my PS3 as my main CD/DVD/Blu Ray player plugged into a 5.1 AV receiver with Toslink.
PS3 has Fabulous video UPSCALING capabilities. Check it out.
Also the og ps3 had sacd drives in them. Not very well known. Ive got one
So we don’t get to see/hear the comparison… Pointless.
Did you do the A/B with headphones? For me and my experience that is the huge and dead giveaway. :)
is yamaha dvd s2700 good for sacd playback?
Dvd players that can do SACD will generally be ok for SACD playback. Nothing cutting edge, but it will get the job done.
I wonder since my xbox plays cds. How it would compare against the premier
I have an Xbox series x and it sounds way worse than my marantz cd6007
@@vacuumblink2300 who cares for U!! i love using sometime the xbox for cds with my discmen and sony x700s so no one cares for u dum dum!
No measurement?
This was an interesting video. I listen to my CD's through a PS3 using the analog out solution and they sound awesome.
Was thinking of buying a transport but no money and no real need. It'd be awesome if you did this exact comparison with a PS3 and the Transport, see if there's any significant difference (besides having to use a tv to hit play of course)
Im going to be using the first gen PS1 in an upcoming video because apparently that specific model came with an incredible DAC built in. I am looking forward to the comparison
@@mykandrew awesome! I'm gonna be looking forward to it 🔥 Merry Christmas 🎄
Isn’t the ps3 loud af?
Get a $34 dollar Sony DVD player from Best Buy, plug into a decent DAC and call it a day.
Tried 4 cd drives/ transports to same dac. Very big sound difference - compared to dac to dac differenses.
So the Sony is not sending all the 1s and 0s out the coax? Wonder why.
"The Primare has more base".. Is this suggesting that somehow that DVD player was not sending the data at 16/44.1k? Was the Sony lens misreading a "1" or a "0" ???
Might this be related somehow to electrical capabilities?
That was my first thought. Second thought is the Primare may be coloring the raw audio before sending it through the output? Or maybe the DVD player performs it's own "movie-mode" EQ? I'm really curious now too!
No, it means that the dvd player sucks.
Thanks for the video.
I was using my Pioneer LX500 for all my digital duties (DVD,BR,SACD,DVDA,CD) I got it for 700 bucks before they were discontinued by Pioneer. Anyway after a couple years of getting back into vinyl, because who doesn't like to ride the band wagon. I unpacked my 2500ish CDs and was playing them like mad. It dawned on me that I'm using an expensive, hard to replace player to spin a 2 channel CD. I wanted a CD player with a digital out to use as a transport. (Im kicking myself for selling my old NAD 5000) but, they are hard to find in good order so I eventually found a Pioneer Elite DV37 (35 bucks compared to 999 back in 2001) to transport through the digital rca outputs to my preamp. Sounds fantastic, both through my speakers and more importantly through my headphones. Obviously its not doing really anything but passing 1s and 0s to the very nice DAC in the Preamp.
Correction 5/10/23--- OK I was mistaken, it is more than 1 & 0s. The DV37 started having freezing issues and I think it was adding some 2s. I replaced it with a Cambridge CXC. While The pioneer did sound good on its own, doing A/B between the two really changed my opinion. Vocals and Highs were no longer harsh and the bottom end was more controlled bringing more definition to everything else.
Spin On you crazy Diamonds!
The Primare MIGHT not have been worth $1500.00. Plenty of presumed audiophile products aren't worth their price.
you can buy a Shanling ET3 for $700
Good info on transports. I just purchased a Cambridge audio CXC v2 cd transport after ditching my $9.99 dvd player and I got to say, it really does sound better !!
I listen to alot of Jazz and it sounds BETTER !! People have to understand, High end transports are alot of money for a reason, They install better parts, way better than the $39.99 cd player DUH !!
anyhow question , I saw a youtube video of a guy claiming if you use a black magic marker on the end of a cd all the way around, the music will sound better ?
Ever here of this ?
and do you think it will harm in anyway the laser reading the cd ?
thanks
Che'
"People have to understand, High end transports are alot of money for a reason, They install better parts, way better than the $39.99 cd player DUH !!"
People also have to understand that a 5$ digital pocket calculator creates exactly the same result as a 500$ digital pocket calculator when it comes to multiplying integer numbers consisting of 1-4 digits.
It does not make any difference on the calculation results if the case is cheapest plastic or high end aluminium....
Just remember the times where laptops and PCs had CD-Roms drives as a standard. At the end these CD-ROM drives cost about 30 USD and there capable to read the data without errors 32 times faster than needed for playback of audio CDs.
" I saw a youtube video of a guy claiming if you use a black magic marker on the end of a cd all the way around, the music will sound better ?
Ever here of this ?"
To change the sound of an audio CD you need to decode the digital samples, analyze its frequency spectrum and modifiy some of these frequencies by increasing/decreasing their volume or maybe delaying them in time and then convert back this frequency spectrum back to samples and add error detection and correction bits to them....
Modern DSPs can do that in real time -they are able to perform the needed billions of calculations per second to do that - a "black magic marker" can not.
Totally "Snake oil" which only "works" because many so called "audiophiles" have no or wrong knowledge about digital signal processing...
I want to know can you make a video cd and run it on a DVD player
Many DVD players can play a lot more standards than only DVD. Nearly everyone can play Audio CDs, most can play also data CDs (and data DVDs) with mp3 files on it and some might play also video cds. There is not guarantee - Google might help you to find out if it is possible or not for a specific DVD player.
A CD player will sound better but in a pinch a DVD player will work if its a good one. I think anything that is dedicated to a certain medium is better like an MP3 or Flac player will sound better then a phone as well because it is dedicated to playing the Music files a phone has many different things its made for not one primary focus.
Don’t forget, 1300.00 of that is just good ol’ price mark-up….
I'm happy with my cheap 0 1 0 1 cd sounds good to me no snake oil here
Playing live concerts inn DVD with a CD player could also change your mind :)
Fully agree :-)
I've tried about 12 different versions of the Samsung Bluray players I found at Garage sales. Most of them were about 8 to 10 years old and I spent about $1 each. I can't say much about a 'transport' because I've never owned one, BUT there are differences between MUSIC CD play back between Samsung's various models and even better DAT Chips you can hear the difference. The Samsung version I have and like most is their 5700 series mfg after 2018 (cost me a $1) which sounds very good out of the RCA jacks, but if you have any good DAT the Samsung sounds better as a 'slave' to an outside 'digital to analog' converter.
..... I still want a TRANSPORT honestly, but I can always have replacement with a Samsung for $1 and that's about 500 to 1,000 of them for '1 transport?' Well, it seems hard for me to justify on my income.
I think you have a confusion of terms. As far as I understand, if those samsung dvds are used through the optical output (not using their DACs), they're being used as transports. The sound may not be the same but it will be very close and mostly imperceptible without high end gear.
@@RafaelPernia Well, I'm no expert that's for darn sure.
I started out using RCA outs, because I didn't have external DAC. I knew all CD/DVD/Bluray machines have DACS in them if they have RCA outs though.
.... I was just checking for any difference between same brand units of varying cost and promises advertised.
.... about the same time I purchased a Used Pre-Amp when I discovered it had a DAT in it. Since many of the SAMSUNG units didn't have RCA outs this gave me opportunity to plug them in, instead of porting sound out of the T.V. back into my AMP.
.... Avoiding the T.V. and going direct made a difference, but I knew it would.
.... Even with Coaxial or digital out I discovered Samsung models were not all equal even if the DAT I was using in the Pre-Amp sounds better than RCA plugs allowing the internal Samsung Dats do their jobs.
..... Some of the DATS were pretty good in the SAMSUNG, but never as good as the Pre-Amp's DAT from a $3,000 dollar 1999 unit.
.... My actions are certainly not SCIENCTIFIC measurements of the viability of DATS, but it worked for me as means to A & B compare with like items.
I had my first CD player in 1985 and by 1990 I sorta considered CDs as convenient methods of owning Music, but not for it's sonic quality.
CDs didn't even seem like an Option to grow back my Music Collection until about 2 years ago.
............. HONESTLY I don't know why CDs were invented if their PLAYBACK was FLAWED from the beginning and took thousands and thousands of dollars in equipment to make them Sound good.
.... I'm invested now, but only because the cost of getting good sound out of them have fallen in prices
AND... Ironically I can go Garage Hunting and pick up 100s of CDs for the cost of a few bucks (I pay about .25 cent avg a CD.)
@@Labor_Jones using their RCA outs you may be able to hear more difference because then more mechanical things come into the equation, yes. I still think CDs are great because there are new DVDs you can buy for 30 bucks and the sound coming out is very good considering the price. Imagine what a 30 buck turntable would sound like before it destroys the record
@@RafaelPernia I heard reviews where good DATS are in CD (etc.) Players and going out of their RCAs bring fabulous results.... BUT that is not the case with LOW Cost (under $500) Bluray commercial players like Samsung or Sony.
Currently I use the Samsung model 5700. They had a couple of updates so and i had one of the Younger versions until it went belly up and I got other one ($1) that was older and won't read a number of files off my HD.....
...... so far as CD Files out the Coaxial into my Pre-Amp's DAT and out to my Sansui Amp back to the KLIPS.... this is GOOD FOR ME.
Do I want something better? Of course, but for the moment I'm concentrating on either a AudioTechnic 140 tt or a 1200 mark 7th generation.... I've picked up about 2,000 albums over the last couple of years and I think I should play them on something better than a $30 dollar turntable ;)
I don’t know I haven’t heard your player but I was in Europe I set up my system at home with a 30 euro dvd Sony with a 24 bit Dac in the player and I kid you not I did not notice a difference between the Sony player and my 700 dollar Nad CD player with a 24 bit dac so point being you are paying for expensive fluff and to add to the irony Nad used a Sony transport
I'm starting to get a little bit in all the tecnic aspects of music, sound, cd, etc, this channel is my school. Thanks a lot for all the information
Sony X700 Blu Ray player would give your premier a run for your money for around $300 Thanks for sharing.
oh yes the sony x700 i have its great player for cds sony is king of cds music
It sounds different because the Primare MODIFIES THE SOUND.
Actually, there's another reason it's a $1500 player. And it has alot less to do with "engineering" or "clarity".
That's your opinion and it's respected on my platform. Audio can be subjective and I will in the future address the topic of snake oil.
Thanks, that's honest and respected/appreciated.
Well, anybody who's using $1500 CD Transport from Primare usually has a stereo amplifier $3000+ and speakers $5000+.
When it comes to audiophile sound quality you pretty much get what you pay for. More cost better components = better sound quality. COMPONENTS ARE EXPENSIVE FOR A REASON.
i have 100 cds so a $1500 would not be cost effective. all where downloaded to a HD before i sold them. just kept the MOFI
How can the drive effect the sound? From a technical standpoint, that makes no sense unless the spdif on the DVD player was completely bork but if that was the case it should have sounded terrible compared to the transport and he said it didn't.
Dvd, blueray players and even ps3, they make usually lot of mechanical noise. It must check before buying. Hifi cd decks are very quiet while playing.
*Continuously Running:* I once was the KING of Scrap Recyling among many many Electronic Firms. Most of the Engineers, or QC told me that the difference between a low cost pcs of crap and a Top of the Line pcs of crap was PARTS. Turntables without a motor is JUNK, AMPS with crumbling capacitors is JUNK.... The Sony will DIE long before that Transport.
Personally I could care less about how noisy the transport is what really matters is the sound test I would like to hear this on myself you could have played maybe some type of small music clip and let us here for our self
You would be better off using an ordinary PC CD drive, Foobar, USB audio and employing a TCXO for superior S/PDIF clocking architecture.
No clue, but that sounds like a fun experiment and I am going to try it.
@@mykandrew USB2 audio, Kernal ,or Wasapi or Asio steaming plug ins for Foobar player, and a DDC are perhaps worth investigating in that case. Thanks.
If you tried comparing your CD transport with a high-end DVD player you might get different results
CD player loads faster, skips to the song faster and has features like repeat and randomize. Plays audio file formats.
I use that Sony with a Schiit Gungnir Multibit. Schiit Freya and Schiit Aegir Monoblocks into Harbeth 30.2s. I hear no difference between it and the SPIDF output of my Bluesound Vault 2I.
Waiting for Schiit to release their transport.
I had a nasty thought. . . Is it possible that some of these high-end transports might do a bit of digital processing to artificially "sweeten" the signal before outputting it? Most of us, I'm sure, would regard that as cheating. We want the pure, unmolested data, and if we want to do any processing on it, then we'll have other devices in the chain to do that. But if you are peddling big-ticket audiophile transports, you just might feel a lot of pressure to make them sound better than the competition - by hook or by crook.
It's not only possible. There are many players over the years that have done that. DSP is very affordable, and has been since the mid-90's. I had a boombox as a kid with compression, eq, delay, and reverb.
I found absolutely that the transport used makes a difference. In my case I compared two Sony Bluray players, a model bdps1700 and a bdps350. I used headphones for the comparison. The 1700 is a newer cheaper player with no display. It sounded steely at the top end and I didn't notice much of a soundstage. The older 350 however was a different story. It was warm with plenty of depth and good imaging. I can't speak about a truly high end transport as I don't have one. But I imagine there will be a difference. BTW, there are plenty of Sony Bdps350 players on Ebay for about 20 to 30 dollars.
Assuming that they go into the same DAC. There should be no audible difference
I use a Sony BDPS 350 with a Schitt DAC and it sounds great!
BASS, not "base," dude.
the real question is, can a $1500 DVD player from 1995 (that now costs -$100 used) beat a modern $100 CD player (or come anywhere near matching a $1500 one) ??
comparing a $6 DVD player with a $1500 CD player isn't a far comparison.
@@adean4146 It may not be fair but it was interesting to actually hear an audible difference, the closer you get in price the less difference you'll be able to hear!
Example 708h
Oh in my long experience in this hobbie. You don't have to break the bank yet you get what you pay for. I want the dd15. I'm using that exact same sony. Loud & noisy. On certain discs. Not a fan of that. What I want out of a transport. Is quiet operations super low noise floor instruments & vocals coming out of black background. That's top of my list. I listen to a lot of classical music. It will go from a pin drop to full roar. 😀
Like it Mike. Just been A/B with streamer/vinyl and it's a tiny difference with my system. p.s guess the base is CNC machined not just formed steel? 😉🏴🎱👾
I'm calling bs on this right after you said the one you got from goodwill worked when you got it home.
Lol I am way beyond this video now. I just did a video where I ripped an SACD using a goodwill blu ray player. Goodwill is the spot.
My question is was the Premier 214 times better than the Sony ?
Misspelled "bass". Not "base".
I use both DVD players and CD players to play CDs.
All CD players sound absolutely identical. A CD player is merely decoding what is already there on the disc - nothing more.
No machine omits any data if it is capable of decoding it in the first place - unless the machine is not designed for the task.
OK! Make a video and compare a DVD player with your expensive CD player using an analog RCA connection, and try to FIND in a blind test where it sounds "horrible"!!! CAN YOU DO THAT?! I'M 10000% SURE THAT YOU WOULD NEVER FIND ANY DIFFERENCE !!! Ask someone to AB switch between them for you! I'm warning you, that would destroy your life and you gonna be disappointed !!!
Had better base, not bass? And not one measurement yet you call it a test. It's nothing more than your subjective option.
"better base"
Bass.
@@JamesSmith-qy3eu you should watch the video. 😂
But The 25 dollars 💵 Onn At Walmart. It’s only good for basic watching. My branded one ☝️ last longer. My. Onn still working.