I think the place-ness could also be improved by having the goomboss' castle somewhere in the background of the level, would help connect the boss fight arena to the rest of the level more concretely
This is a huge artistic breakthrough, you are 1000% correct. my favorite thing about this channel is seeing just how much you improve as a game developer.
I think this is one of the things super Mario sunshine do really well, the NPC’s dialogues & the levels themselves completely change accordingly to the player’s progression in each course, which makes the immersion 1000 times better. For exemple, the Gelato Beach level is filled with lore about the the dunebuds, the sandbird and the egg, NPCs react to the egg being threatened by Plungelos in episode 2, then talk about the upcoming watermelon festival…
Bro, you are literally describing the design philosophy of Super Mario Sunshine! Glad to see that people still appreciate the effort it took in trying to make the world feel real and cohesive, even if the game is rough around the edges.
Nice to see you unafraid of changing the main philosophy if it benefits the game. This idea is very much how Nintendo does it, which is a great thing! Really excited to play this game
Fun fact, this is what lead to the p.aystyle of SM64 being as it is. After space-world, Shigeru was intent on changing the jump height and some physics after criticism from test players at the convention. This was to the chargrin of the other devs, because the game was just about finished at this point. Because of that change of mind, the game went from a clunky pla5forming challenge to a fun platforming playground!
I actually feel like the hub world is the biggest barrier to immersion for me. The levels feel to separate from the hub in terms of theming, and doesn’t really feel lived. For example, the first hub(don’t have much of an idea of how the rest of them look) could be a beach leading that is leading into the forest, with the under ground level being in a cliff. The biggest problem with the hub is the size, lack of placement in the context to the rest of the levels, and lack of secrets. It doesn’t feel like you’re discovering more of the island, but just stubbing into levels. The original sm64 had a sense of discovery through out its later levels( level entrances in walls, quirks on how to enter certain levels, or ways to get power-up’s from these levels). I think making the hub bigger and changing the way you enter levels could do more for immersion. For example, the first hub could have the player use tnt to find the underground level, or the player would have to pay a toll in coins to enter warriors wildlife. Discovering the levels should give a player a sense of satisfaction, and not be as simple as the just stubbing into level entrances. You can can also make npcs reference other levels, and maybe give hints about how to enter other levels. None of this is meant to discredit what you’re saying in this video, but to put a spotlight on the hub I feel is a bit lacking. I feel that Mario sunshine’s hub could be used as a starting point. (Sorry if this seems disjointed, I’m typing on phone)
what you are seeing is just the demo's HUB, all the levels past the demo are just set in a debug level select. i have yet to start making the real HUB. so this is not something we should worry about at the end. the HUB is the most important part for me and will be made at the very end, when we know all the level themes.
Yes dude, you are 100% correct. I didn't even notice that was lacking at first, but it really is, and it's lacking in a lot of otherwise great fan projects.
@@KazeClips I've noticed as a gamer with bad ADHD that a lot of modern games feel empty and lifeless, or like I'm not *progressing* to anything or having any impact upon the game world, and I think this idea has helped me to understand why. I'm definitely no expert at game design, but I have noticed two small things that really keep me engaged in a game's world, those being, any objectives, goals, items, etc in the game world having a real connection to the game world, and completing/collecting them having a visible impact on the world, however small. Having NPCs in a fishing village all be stressed out because the harbor has a monster on it, then once you beat the monster seeing the NPC all happily fishing at the harbor, for example. It helps me both feel invested in the game world, and easily recognize my mission, if before doing something I see a visible negative from it, and/or after beating it i get a visible positive from it.
@clairifedverified2513 this is also why I like SM64: The Green Comet, since we get glimpses of each level in SM64 after the events of the original game. For a simple example, Bob-omb Battlefield is no longer a battlefield
Nice, this kind of thing is a big part of the secret sauce that made classic games like OoT so beloved to this day. It's something I associate heavily with great retro games. The best games feel like they implicitly have the prose of a great novel.
One thing I appreciate in game design is strong design themes which really separate the levels distinctly. In a forest level there is an opportunity to explore all the various attributes which make a forest feel like a forest and to enhance those aspects for maximum effect. For me a forest has limited line of sight due to trees, mist, and there is tue aspect of having moments where you leave the canapés and it opens up wide and give a big panorama view. Id add more mushrooms, have segments where its dark and the light is coming from localized sources like glowing small mushrooms or bunny built structures like carrot lamps.
And i love the idea the bunny’s and gumbas interact. The gumba has that funny suction cup sound when it speeds up running, it would be fin and sound fun to have the gumbas chasing the bunnies and have all that movement sound effects playing out
I know in Mario Sunshine every time you start a new level, The camera will always start showing you some objective or starting point. In a way this is given a narrative, giving what the player should might want to investigate.
Starting to think a little bit more like a landscape architect. I think there's almost a spectrum between something like Mario Sunshine where the the mechanics often feel determined by what kind of place it is within the world of Isle Delfino and base 64 where the levels don't feel like real places even within the game's own logic, but just random paintings brought to life. I think the latter actuallly adds a lot to the (in)famous vibe of that game, that it becomes dreamlike or even "liminal" the way those places are so detached from placeness, but still are very memorable and specific (unlike eg. most levels from 3d land and 3d world). That's were that negative emotional aura comes in, which I think you actually nailed in large parts of Last Impact. It's one of the things that made me love that project. But it's interesting to see you going for something different within the engine anyway.
It makes sense, immersion is what makes someone want to play the game. But don't be frustrated man, ideas will eventually come out, and this project will take its necessary time to be completed. There's no pressure man, you're really talented
Plenty of other people have had that kind of thought simply ruined by corporate input of "ok, but can we take that and monetize the product more?" This is why I love indie devs, modders, y'know, the people who are _passionate_ about doing what they do rather than greedy about it-potentially unrestrained by that endless chase for the dollar
What if you fell into a "rabbit hole" which lead to this forest? It could be an Alice in Wonderland reference in that way which would be cute as well as add some potential for quirky dialogue from a Yoshi who thinks that side characters having their own functioning society is absurd despite he being a side character amidst a functioning society. Conspiracy Yoshi could become a recurring character and incidentally give hints for secret levels or something.
One thing though, I'd argue placeness and roleplay aren't more important than moment to moment gameplay, but that all three of these things are just as important. For example, any open world games have the problem of delivering a believable world, but not giving you much to do.
Narrative design! It looked like in the earlier levels you showed that you already have a good grasp of the concept. I love little stories that unfold as you complete a world's quests. 😀
I kind of like the horizontally scrolling background at the end. Maybe if you expand on it with a mario that continuously runs along a horizontal path, it would elude to Mario's 2D roots. Pressing A to select a star would have mario jump towards the star, but it slows down and fades into the level before touching it. Another thing to consider is how mario appears in the level. Like if he jumps in and lands there, or if he gets fired out of a cannon into the level, or climbs up over a ledge to start a level. That transition gives you a pat on the back to start moving and gives you a direction. Mario Sunshine used a cool particle effect to materialize Mario into levels, too.
*Flow* is the general term of (smooth) user experience over time. Examples: Cut scene after cut scene interrupts flow. Clunky/non-intuitive controls interrupts flow. The goal of UI is to empower the player to do what they want and get out of the way. Bad UI interrupts flow.
Yep, and even a game with zero story and characters can still achieve immersive flow if its gameplay is smooth enough. There was some documentary on this old tetris champion and when he was playing one of the newer games (I think he was unfamiliar with it?) He just sort of went into this...zen like state where he was just making perfect plays after perfect plays to the point where he was even surprised himself. That is what true immersion sounds like to me. I doesn't have to be always be RPing as some created character, but the game being so intriguing enough that you just sorta...forget about the world around you for a moment. Edit: The way this is worded makes it sound like I don't want stories or characters. Nah, its not like that. Just that non story heavy games can be immersive too. Someone can still be immersed by like, a game of Pong or something.
I fully agree with everything you said! The role playing you mentioned feels like the video game equivalent of "show, don't tell" in writing. Also, when you were up on the tallest platform path with the mushrooms, it felt like the mushrooms, flowers, and carrots were all kind of fighting for attention visually, but it was mostly overwhelmed by mushrooms and wasn't quite reading as a forest a bunny would want to be in anymore. The view from everywhere else in the level had nice proportions of grass/landscape, mushrooms, flowers, and carrots, but that one view of the mushroom path felt very out of place. Maybe you could replace those floating mushroom platforms with some other kind of platform/path, and reuse the floating mushrooms elsewhere in the level, but at a smaller scale?
honestly i wish we had a metric of just how many times you've recompiled the game lmfao, as usual incredible work and observation, im excited as ever to hear more
Very insightful! You need to make more content like this Kaze. Just 4 minutes clips of you sharing insight into your design process. You have a lot of design experience that people like me benefit greatly from.
Love this video, sense of place is one of the most important things in game design imo. I don't know if you're a fan of Thief, but the recent fan mission pack called The Black Parade does a really good job of grounding you in it's world as you go through the missions.
Im happy that you were able to realize this about game design, this is a very positive thing since now that you got a good engine, now you can focus on creative liberty and making the hack even more fun, I do not mind if you delay it, as long as the result is fun and polished, its great! Btw just a few simple suggestions: Maybe some sort of hard mode were enemies have a few new attacks etc Optional time attacks for the level stars. Making some bossfights exclusive to the hub to progress, and thhey would have a more fighting ring feel. Having level exclusive gimmicks and transformations, first level as an example: Maybe after the first 2 missions one of the bunnies would allow you to have him sitting on your head and the bunny would use his ears as a propeller powerup, and a gimmick would be having carrots on the ground that you can pick up, you could feed them to bunnies for coins/ red coins or smth like that and sthere would be a box type that can only open by throwing a carrot/vegetable at it. This is just a general idea and it probably doesent fit your vision. Take your time to make the mod as good as it can be so it feels a lot more unique than other hacks, I hope you are having a great day and good luck with the project Kaze!
Love to hear your thoughts on the game design, I think there are three types of people when it comes to how you view games if it makes sense, first the players, then the designers/coders are together this time, and finally the reviewers, which is the hat you've put on top comment right now, and you're giving good ideas.
I've been in LLL, so my jaw dropped when he said: "...an amalgamation of platforms...". I guess I've been playing in MIPS' testbed of offcuts, but still, running around in Lethal Lava Land is the only time yet for me anyway that SM64 has elicited the feeling of running around in a lucid dream.
Maybe take some inspiration from Bob-Omb Battlefield and have a distinct territory with one part under Goomba control and another in Rabbit, if that's the vibe you are looking for.
IIRC, Rareware did exactly all what this video says in Banjo Kazooie and what inspired that was Disneyland/Disneyworld iirc. 1: Every world has segmented areas, but some giant thing that links everything together to orientate yourself (the snowman in freezeezy peak is like the disney castle) 2: The room linking the world to the hub is very thematic so that your mind is already mentally prepped or wondering what the world entails. The puzzle room to unlock said world also fulfills that intrigue (you see the puzzle room for treasure trove cove -> already understand its a beach level -> get to the TTC entrance room -> music change and aesthetic shows you stuff to expect like water, pirate ships and treasure chest while still leaving you wanting to see it more) 3. The NPCs you help on your way and how it changes the dynamic of the level as more parts of the level become interacted with (Click Clock Wood being the best example in how the level drastically changes every season and different NPCs require different things every season) If you want the game feel of the world to feel "lived in" and not just "this is the grass world, this is the desert world, this is the water world" you can do even more things like have the NPCs talking about what goes on in this world or even referencing other worlds ahead of time to make them feel more connected (Banjo Tooie again does stuff like that) In the most basic terms, just picture if the island and each world was a real life place in our world. Its not like life is just static with 0 relation to each other grass world, desert world, water world, etc. Everything has a function or reason for why it exist. TL;DR: When designing something, ask yourself where did it come from, when/how did it get here, why is it here and what is it trying to do and to who/when (or leave it up to interpretation, sometimes the mind fills in the blanks better).
100% this is a dramatic evolution of the game and I'm excited! Bringing together physical world design, gameplay mechanics, sound design and plot are more what Nintendo went for with the Zelda series, while keeping Mario more simply about tight gameplay in simple, isolated worlds. Here you're really adding your own vision. I'm hoping you put work into sound design to make music and background sounds to fit each level's vibe.
Like it is a Movie play... It sounds really cool. The Color of the Sky, the Music,... everything could change to give more "ambient" to the "Challenge" (a.k.a. Star) you got to overcome.
I think you might be being a tad hard on yourself BUT I get what you mean. One thing the original did very well was tell a story with each world. Often times getting a certain star altered the world in ways that made even more stars possible. This breathed new life into each level so you didn't mind playing it 7 times to get all the stars.
oh i think the story telling in this was already way beyond what the original did. many levels don't tell much of a story at all (tick tock clock, lethal lava land, snow many land dont fell like much of a place at all to me). i don't think the original is a good thing to compare yourself to though.
@@Whats.Next.Videos i think even that is much stronger present in this game, there's levels with real stories going on where things happen as you make progress or new areas open up. the most significant change i can remember in the original is koopa the quick showing up in bob ombs battlefield haha
DK64 had disapointing overworld structure. CBFD had amazing "homeworld" layout. Every time when i play a game that uses Mario 64 consept, i always wonder on every level, -why not utilize to present other levels on pre-rendered backgrounds? It would make the thing so much more beliavable, to see where you came and what is yet to come. Of course, it would require that most of the game would be desinged way ahead, not during development. But i've always admired just how first DKC managed to create world where you would actually play a level(s) seamlessly, not by "warping" into new enviroment. Just to play and find areas naturally, on believable manner.
I think it is a good idea! But I would like to say a few things. 1.Remember the balance the roleplay and vibe is a good idea but don't forget to try and mix gameplay and stuff to do with it, I have seen a few games add to much roleplay and world building and forget about gameplay and flow. 2. I like the idea of the bunnies being bullied by the goombas maybe some bunnies could be hiding in fear while are others getting attacked and maybe if you find hiding bunnies you get a few coins or something? 3. I am a little worried about the vibes and roleplay becoming samey in other levels like A few levels being attacked is fine but I would also love to see other ideas for level roleplay and vibe other then (Place under attack by evil NPC help said NPC) I mean it could work but it would be nice to maybe have a gimmick like maybe in a ghost stage have the boos possess friendly NPCs and you have to free them somehow. Just a few ideas.
This is a fantastic breakthrough Kaze, really looking forward to seeing this shape up to be even better than it was going to be! It leans into exactly what Nintendo did with Super Mario Sunshine. They too must've noticed how in SM64 its stars are randomly placed around levels, so in Sunshine they made an effort to make each level feel like a place, with the Shines also serving the overall purpose of bringing the sun back to the island. Mario Sunshine has its flaws, but I think it teaches a lot in game design that could be built upon to make an even better game. Do the Stars themselves serve some overall purpose in the grand story of the whole game? Do I feel like the town / forest / place is able to thrive because of the player's efforts? Having some sort of consistency or 'flow' from Star to Star really helps bring a world together. It feels like you're not just achieving some arbitrary task, but actually helping out around the area. Mario Sunshine made each Shine feel like it represented a day (they'd often refer to "thanks for your help yesterday") and so by the end of it, you feel like you truly helped out everyone on the island in some way, with the blue coins being like a payment for doing additional cleaning. It's a side task that suits the narrative of "clean up the island". This is something that is lacking in so many games even to this day. It doesn't have to be super deep, but just enough that everything serves some sort of purpose in this world you're creating. The limits are only your imagination.
yeah it's really just about making sure the player "gets the idea/vibe" and not so much about being deep and explicit. it's a passive kind of fantasy play
The one issue is that I would make the overrun Gomba issue the second quest, sort of like you escalated the conflict by breaking the balance, then have to correct it.
By looking at just the gameplay alone, you might think this is the PC port, but the moment you look at the window title and icon you realize that this is NOT the PC port. Thats serious skill.
@KazeClips are those textures on screen the same as used on real n64 or do you use a texture pack ? Since they look to high res for N64 KB texture memory.
I think it depends on if you want this to feel more like a polished Mario 64 sequel, or a game that bridges Mario 64 and Sunshine. Those world-building moments of saving NPCs feels very Sunshine, but I think they can also take away from the simplicity of 64. Personally I really like the idea, but I just wanted to mention this so you don't think you need to go back to the drawing board on every level or something. It's not that you've been making the levels "wrong", it's that your perspective of what you want out of the game may be shifting.
So true! It's kind of crazy how Nintendo used to understand this, but as time has gone on, so many of their games sacrificed *all* world building/place-ness for the moment to moment gameplay. The RTYI demo already blew me away, and the improvements look fantastic, but now adding this next layer of world building onto it, it really feels like it captures the spirit of old Nintendo from the, SNES to GameCube days. And perhaps in some ways, even improves on it. Fantastic work!
so instead of a game with soul it will be a game with soul, heart, blood and sweat. it like it whatever make the game even more legendary than it already is im good with :P
That's a good insight. Most of the storytelling in a game like this should come from the environment things happening around you. Having the goombas bully the bunnies will make the player feel that the level is more alive and dynamic and increase the tension of the level.
I also see it as removing plotholes or logical problems. "Why is the bunny just chilling there if the place is overrun by goombas? Wouldn't the goombas bully them?" I always imagine that a mindful player is playing my game and criticizing it 😂 so you are completely correct, these little details and story elements hugely increase immersion, and successful games are full of it. Maybe some of the bunnies would barricade themselves and hide 🤔
I thought from the start of the video that you were being sarcastic, but it's true that i got so used to hacks that didn't world build each level that i wasn't expecting such ideas from them anymore., but i think the same could be said about a lot of levels from og mario 64, not all have npcs with dialogues, so i think it's completely normal but if you want more levels like bomb-omb that tell a story as the level slightly changes it's npcs through the stars, this could be required to make your feel more immersive. Although, it's not just that, but in my opinion the levels also need gimmicks or mechanics to differ them from others, in mario 64 even levels that didn't have npcs had it's focus in being different not just by visuals but from what mario did in them, sorta like kirby style a lot of levels had you doing something new as it's own thing so if you repeat mechanics randomly in fan made levels it just doesn't catch the same vibe, it kinda goes with what you say, so for example if it's a forest then you do need more trees and vines, perhaps branches or vines that fell, the map shown in the video looks more like a farm.
yeah i don't think vanilla mario 64 does what i'm describing here well either. mario sunshine gets the closest to the roleplaying aspects. i dont think there's been a mario game that does the vibe well (but if you wanted to see a game that hits the vibe perfectly, check out missing link)
@@KazeClips it's easier to world build with mario sunshine since it all takes place in delfino island instead of multiple worlds, there's more space to do sub-areas to it as you add a lot of npcs, events and conversations that make the place feel alive rather than being a showcase, so that's probably why in my opinion. i know all you mention is roleplaying but i think the terms of immersion, lore and world building could be less confusing to people. i would recommend you to play some jrpgs to see how they do their rpg world building aspects, or even kirby games like the 3ds ones to see how they make each world stand out. anywyas, funny of you to recommend missing link, but yes i had a plan to play it these days anyways by coincidence.
I've always felt like Return to Yoshi's Island was seriously missing something. It's not just the roleplay that is missing. The general gameplay design is all over the place in quality. There are some challenges that still look... eh. And there are some bad habits in design I've noticed that are holding over from your Last Impact days, like little gimmicks that kind of work in isolation but don't hold up in execution at all. I'm hoping the "roleplay" gameplay design might give some more ideas on how to make the game cohesively engaging in gameplay across the board, too.
No, I don’t think so. This is the best looking thing I’ve seen running on N64 for sure. He made some great points in the video, but even before it was still far better than anything first party, in my opinion.
Kinda surprised that you test your game with PJ64 1.6 instead of a more modern, accurate N64 emulator like Mupen64Plus-Next, RMG or even PJ64 3.0... Are you trying to ensure your game runs properly on even an early 2000's potato emulator? PD: I like the idea to focus a little more on the roleplay. I think Mario Sunshine put a bit more effort on that, and I personally really liked the game for it. So I say go for it!
I was joking, traditional mario tend to lean in abstract design with a few skeumorphism to convey the challenge and gameplay tones, as such you are importing different aesthetics in a mario structure, which is why it's a kaze mario instead of a nintendo mario, which is good@@KazeClips what would be cool is to see it mature beyond mario to a full kaze aesthetics, ie to grow your own character and gameplay world. I'm waiting the next project 😁
I’m sure that this will add a great deal of immersion to your project, but“much more important that moment to moment gameplay”? Feels a little sensationalized to me. Definitely a worthwhile consideration while making a game, though.
The elements you've brought up here all matter, and should be considered in designing a narrative-world-structure game. But really, you're working towards a complete, holistic design approach; developing a complete graph of relevant relationships between all elements in the game, trying to avoid thematic isolation/incongruency of any individual element. And the set of elements is really everything, from boot-to-finish, that the player experiences, even the out-of-game menus. And as you said about the relationship between the bunnies and goombas, evolution of the world is itself an element. And your aggressive chasing of optimization matters in any game. Poor performance always worsens the experience. After all, there's no frame drops IRL, breaking immersion.
don't lean on that too much. there are games and games. i don't think people play mario games for anything but the awesome movement mechanics. if you start gatekeeping quests and such, it'll quickly become a nuisance, specially for replaying the level. the mechanics of the game is what creates engagement in mario. not the world building. tl;dr: think about how these additions will feel after the 5th, 10th, 100th replay. if they're not an annoyance, then they're good additions.
Totally agree with this new approach. Tbh, I always thought that the first world felt rather boring compared to your other worlds and I wasn't really sure why, but now I think this idea might actually be the cause of it. Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing with this concept!
kaze transitioning from a romhack developer to straight up game developer is fascinating to me
The next realization will be that the story is better served by an original protagonist.
Same origin story for most good game devs
TODAY'S MODDERS ARE TOMORROW'S DEVELOPERS!
@@coletale I hope this is true I'm currently modding an old horror game to support VR
@@catfreewhat horror game are you modding to vr?
I think the place-ness could also be improved by having the goomboss' castle somewhere in the background of the level, would help connect the boss fight arena to the rest of the level more concretely
pretty much.
so... better game design?
This is a huge artistic breakthrough, you are 1000% correct. my favorite thing about this channel is seeing just how much you improve as a game developer.
I started working out inspired by this guy
So true, same.
Yessss frrr
I think this is one of the things super Mario sunshine do really well, the NPC’s dialogues & the levels themselves completely change accordingly to the player’s progression in each course, which makes the immersion 1000 times better.
For exemple, the Gelato Beach level is filled with lore about the the dunebuds, the sandbird and the egg, NPCs react to the egg being threatened by Plungelos in episode 2, then talk about the upcoming watermelon festival…
Bro, you are literally describing the design philosophy of Super Mario Sunshine! Glad to see that people still appreciate the effort it took in trying to make the world feel real and cohesive, even if the game is rough around the edges.
Nice to see you unafraid of changing the main philosophy if it benefits the game. This idea is very much how Nintendo does it, which is a great thing! Really excited to play this game
Fun fact, this is what lead to the p.aystyle of SM64 being as it is. After space-world, Shigeru was intent on changing the jump height and some physics after criticism from test players at the convention. This was to the chargrin of the other devs, because the game was just about finished at this point. Because of that change of mind, the game went from a clunky pla5forming challenge to a fun platforming playground!
I actually feel like the hub world is the biggest barrier to immersion for me.
The levels feel to separate from the hub in terms of theming, and doesn’t really feel lived. For example, the first hub(don’t have much of an idea of how the rest of them look) could be a beach leading that is leading into the forest, with the under ground level being in a cliff. The biggest problem with the hub is the size, lack of placement in the context to the rest of the levels, and lack of secrets. It doesn’t feel like you’re discovering more of the island, but just stubbing into levels. The original sm64 had a sense of discovery through out its later levels( level entrances in walls, quirks on how to enter certain levels, or ways to get power-up’s from these levels). I think making the hub bigger and changing the way you enter levels could do more for immersion. For example, the first hub could have the player use tnt to find the underground level, or the player would have to pay a toll in coins to enter warriors wildlife. Discovering the levels should give a player a sense of satisfaction, and not be as simple as the just stubbing into level entrances. You can can also make npcs reference other levels, and maybe give hints about how to enter other levels. None of this is meant to discredit what you’re saying in this video, but to put a spotlight on the hub I feel is a bit lacking. I feel that Mario sunshine’s hub could be used as a starting point.
(Sorry if this seems disjointed, I’m typing on phone)
what you are seeing is just the demo's HUB, all the levels past the demo are just set in a debug level select. i have yet to start making the real HUB. so this is not something we should worry about at the end. the HUB is the most important part for me and will be made at the very end, when we know all the level themes.
@@KazeClips Great to hear that the HUB is so important for you, because the HUB what make a great rom hack
The idea at 3:18 of a path that scrolls toward the screen instead of parallel to the screen is really really good. You should implement that.
Yes dude, you are 100% correct. I didn't even notice that was lacking at first, but it really is, and it's lacking in a lot of otherwise great fan projects.
i think its lacking even in other games
@@KazeClips I've noticed as a gamer with bad ADHD that a lot of modern games feel empty and lifeless, or like I'm not *progressing* to anything or having any impact upon the game world, and I think this idea has helped me to understand why.
I'm definitely no expert at game design, but I have noticed two small things that really keep me engaged in a game's world, those being, any objectives, goals, items, etc in the game world having a real connection to the game world, and completing/collecting them having a visible impact on the world, however small. Having NPCs in a fishing village all be stressed out because the harbor has a monster on it, then once you beat the monster seeing the NPC all happily fishing at the harbor, for example. It helps me both feel invested in the game world, and easily recognize my mission, if before doing something I see a visible negative from it, and/or after beating it i get a visible positive from it.
@@clairifedverified2513I'm exactly the same and feel the same way
@clairifedverified2513 this is also why I like SM64: The Green Comet, since we get glimpses of each level in SM64 after the events of the original game. For a simple example, Bob-omb Battlefield is no longer a battlefield
Nice, this kind of thing is a big part of the secret sauce that made classic games like OoT so beloved to this day. It's something I associate heavily with great retro games. The best games feel like they implicitly have the prose of a great novel.
One thing I appreciate in game design is strong design themes which really separate the levels distinctly. In a forest level there is an opportunity to explore all the various attributes which make a forest feel like a forest and to enhance those aspects for maximum effect. For me a forest has limited line of sight due to trees, mist, and there is tue aspect of having moments where you leave the canapés and it opens up wide and give a big panorama view. Id add more mushrooms, have segments where its dark and the light is coming from localized sources like glowing small mushrooms or bunny built structures like carrot lamps.
And i love the idea the bunny’s and gumbas interact. The gumba has that funny suction cup sound when it speeds up running, it would be fin and sound fun to have the gumbas chasing the bunnies and have all that movement sound effects playing out
The path into the forest idea is a really good one, I think it helps bridge the gap between the hub world and the level proper a lot.
I know in Mario Sunshine every time you start a new level, The camera will always start showing you some objective or starting point. In a way this is given a narrative, giving what the player should might want to investigate.
maybe instead of just spawning in, mario is pushing blades aside as he enters through the tall grass
Starting to think a little bit more like a landscape architect. I think there's almost a spectrum between something like Mario Sunshine where the the mechanics often feel determined by what kind of place it is within the world of Isle Delfino and base 64 where the levels don't feel like real places even within the game's own logic, but just random paintings brought to life. I think the latter actuallly adds a lot to the (in)famous vibe of that game, that it becomes dreamlike or even "liminal" the way those places are so detached from placeness, but still are very memorable and specific (unlike eg. most levels from 3d land and 3d world). That's were that negative emotional aura comes in, which I think you actually nailed in large parts of Last Impact. It's one of the things that made me love that project. But it's interesting to see you going for something different within the engine anyway.
It makes sense, immersion is what makes someone want to play the game. But don't be frustrated man, ideas will eventually come out, and this project will take its necessary time to be completed. There's no pressure man, you're really talented
Plenty of other people have had that kind of thought simply ruined by corporate input of "ok, but can we take that and monetize the product more?"
This is why I love indie devs, modders, y'know, the people who are _passionate_ about doing what they do rather than greedy about it-potentially unrestrained by that endless chase for the dollar
What if you fell into a "rabbit hole" which lead to this forest? It could be an Alice in Wonderland reference in that way which would be cute as well as add some potential for quirky dialogue from a Yoshi who thinks that side characters having their own functioning society is absurd despite he being a side character amidst a functioning society. Conspiracy Yoshi could become a recurring character and incidentally give hints for secret levels or something.
One thing though, I'd argue placeness and roleplay aren't more important than moment to moment gameplay, but that all three of these things are just as important. For example, any open world games have the problem of delivering a believable world, but not giving you much to do.
Narrative design!
It looked like in the earlier levels you showed that you already have a good grasp of the concept. I love little stories that unfold as you complete a world's quests. 😀
I would love to see an actual PC release of Kaze SM64 games
I kind of like the horizontally scrolling background at the end. Maybe if you expand on it with a mario that continuously runs along a horizontal path, it would elude to Mario's 2D roots. Pressing A to select a star would have mario jump towards the star, but it slows down and fades into the level before touching it.
Another thing to consider is how mario appears in the level. Like if he jumps in and lands there, or if he gets fired out of a cannon into the level, or climbs up over a ledge to start a level. That transition gives you a pat on the back to start moving and gives you a direction. Mario Sunshine used a cool particle effect to materialize Mario into levels, too.
*Flow* is the general term of (smooth) user experience over time.
Examples:
Cut scene after cut scene interrupts flow.
Clunky/non-intuitive controls interrupts flow.
The goal of UI is to empower the player to do what they want and get out of the way. Bad UI interrupts flow.
this is why mario sunshine is ASS
Yep, and even a game with zero story and characters can still achieve immersive flow if its gameplay is smooth enough.
There was some documentary on this old tetris champion and when he was playing one of the newer games (I think he was unfamiliar with it?) He just sort of went into this...zen like state where he was just making perfect plays after perfect plays to the point where he was even surprised himself.
That is what true immersion sounds like to me. I doesn't have to be always be RPing as some created character, but the game being so intriguing enough that you just sorta...forget about the world around you for a moment.
Edit: The way this is worded makes it sound like I don't want stories or characters. Nah, its not like that. Just that non story heavy games can be immersive too. Someone can still be immersed by like, a game of Pong or something.
he's using the word "flow" differently here
@@KazeClips oof
I fully agree with everything you said! The role playing you mentioned feels like the video game equivalent of "show, don't tell" in writing.
Also, when you were up on the tallest platform path with the mushrooms, it felt like the mushrooms, flowers, and carrots were all kind of fighting for attention visually, but it was mostly overwhelmed by mushrooms and wasn't quite reading as a forest a bunny would want to be in anymore. The view from everywhere else in the level had nice proportions of grass/landscape, mushrooms, flowers, and carrots, but that one view of the mushroom path felt very out of place.
Maybe you could replace those floating mushroom platforms with some other kind of platform/path, and reuse the floating mushrooms elsewhere in the level, but at a smaller scale?
honestly i wish we had a metric of just how many times you've recompiled the game lmfao, as usual incredible work and observation, im excited as ever to hear more
Very insightful! You need to make more content like this Kaze. Just 4 minutes clips of you sharing insight into your design process. You have a lot of design experience that people like me benefit greatly from.
Love this video, sense of place is one of the most important things in game design imo. I don't know if you're a fan of Thief, but the recent fan mission pack called The Black Parade does a really good job of grounding you in it's world as you go through the missions.
More thought and effort is going into this project then some actual games lol
we need more trees arround the map! actually there is few of them!
🌲🌳🌲🌲🎄
I couldn't tell if this was a joke at the start, thought maybe you were gonna say "so what we need to add is half a screen of subway surfers"
Im happy that you were able to realize this about game design, this is a very positive thing since now that you got a good engine, now you can focus on creative liberty and making the hack even more fun, I do not mind if you delay it, as long as the result is fun and polished, its great!
Btw just a few simple suggestions:
Maybe some sort of hard mode were enemies have a few new attacks etc
Optional time attacks for the level stars.
Making some bossfights exclusive to the hub to progress, and thhey would have a more fighting ring feel.
Having level exclusive gimmicks and transformations, first level as an example:
Maybe after the first 2 missions one of the bunnies would allow you to have him sitting on your head and the bunny would use his ears as a propeller powerup, and a gimmick would be having carrots on the ground that you can pick up, you could feed them to bunnies for coins/ red coins or smth like that and sthere would be a box type that can only open by throwing a carrot/vegetable at it.
This is just a general idea and it probably doesent fit your vision.
Take your time to make the mod as good as it can be so it feels a lot more unique than other hacks, I hope you are having a great day and good luck with the project Kaze!
Happy New Year to you Kaze!
Love to hear your thoughts on the game design, I think there are three types of people when it comes to how you view games if it makes sense, first the players, then the designers/coders are together this time, and finally the reviewers, which is the hat you've put on top comment right now, and you're giving good ideas.
The only advice I can give is just try see what works and what doesn't for this entry screen, I don't have a song opinion this time
I've been in LLL, so my jaw dropped when he said: "...an amalgamation of platforms...". I guess I've been playing in MIPS' testbed of offcuts, but still, running around in Lethal Lava Land is the only time yet for me anyway that SM64 has elicited the feeling of running around in a lucid dream.
I love that first person path idea for the level select. Really good ideas all around.
Maybe take some inspiration from Bob-Omb Battlefield and have a distinct territory with one part under Goomba control and another in Rabbit, if that's the vibe you are looking for.
Frankly unfair that you are this good at programming and you have such a good sense of game design.
It's fair
it's fair because it comes after many years of working on it!
I don't see how you can say it's unfair, he didn't learn all this doing nothing. It's a lot of hard work.
tl;dr the game needs more immersion to make the player feel like they are making actual changes to the world and are part of it
Kaze my boy, you're truly an artist.
IIRC, Rareware did exactly all what this video says in Banjo Kazooie and what inspired that was Disneyland/Disneyworld iirc.
1: Every world has segmented areas, but some giant thing that links everything together to orientate yourself (the snowman in freezeezy peak is like the disney castle)
2: The room linking the world to the hub is very thematic so that your mind is already mentally prepped or wondering what the world entails. The puzzle room to unlock said world also fulfills that intrigue (you see the puzzle room for treasure trove cove -> already understand its a beach level -> get to the TTC entrance room -> music change and aesthetic shows you stuff to expect like water, pirate ships and treasure chest while still leaving you wanting to see it more)
3. The NPCs you help on your way and how it changes the dynamic of the level as more parts of the level become interacted with (Click Clock Wood being the best example in how the level drastically changes every season and different NPCs require different things every season)
If you want the game feel of the world to feel "lived in" and not just "this is the grass world, this is the desert world, this is the water world" you can do even more things like have the NPCs talking about what goes on in this world or even referencing other worlds ahead of time to make them feel more connected (Banjo Tooie again does stuff like that)
In the most basic terms, just picture if the island and each world was a real life place in our world. Its not like life is just static with 0 relation to each other grass world, desert world, water world, etc. Everything has a function or reason for why it exist.
TL;DR: When designing something, ask yourself where did it come from, when/how did it get here, why is it here and what is it trying to do and to who/when (or leave it up to interpretation, sometimes the mind fills in the blanks better).
i intentionally leave blanks to take advantage of the halo effect. players will fill the blanks with the explanations and interpretations they enjoy.
100% this is a dramatic evolution of the game and I'm excited!
Bringing together physical world design, gameplay mechanics, sound design and plot are more what Nintendo went for with the Zelda series, while keeping Mario more simply about tight gameplay in simple, isolated worlds. Here you're really adding your own vision.
I'm hoping you put work into sound design to make music and background sounds to fit each level's vibe.
Like it is a Movie play...
It sounds really cool. The Color of the Sky, the Music,... everything could change to give more "ambient" to the "Challenge" (a.k.a. Star) you got to overcome.
I've been making bones DRY
I think you might be being a tad hard on yourself BUT I get what you mean.
One thing the original did very well was tell a story with each world. Often times getting a certain star altered the world in ways that made even more stars possible. This breathed new life into each level so you didn't mind playing it 7 times to get all the stars.
oh i think the story telling in this was already way beyond what the original did. many levels don't tell much of a story at all (tick tock clock, lethal lava land, snow many land dont fell like much of a place at all to me). i don't think the original is a good thing to compare yourself to though.
@@KazeClips you're right, the story is kinda ass, I misspoke, I meant the levels "evolve" is a better word.
@@Whats.Next.Videos i think even that is much stronger present in this game, there's levels with real stories going on where things happen as you make progress or new areas open up. the most significant change i can remember in the original is koopa the quick showing up in bob ombs battlefield haha
I like your idea of a world where you change it, instead of just moving around and exploring it.
DK64 had disapointing overworld structure.
CBFD had amazing "homeworld" layout.
Every time when i play a game that uses Mario 64 consept, i always wonder on every level, -why not utilize to present other levels on pre-rendered backgrounds?
It would make the thing so much more beliavable, to see where you came and what is yet to come.
Of course, it would require that most of the game would be desinged way ahead, not during development.
But i've always admired just how first DKC managed to create world where you would actually play a level(s) seamlessly, not by "warping" into new enviroment. Just to play and find areas naturally, on believable manner.
you started talking about engagements and i thought you were going to talk about putting a like and subscribe button in the game 🤣
I think it is a good idea! But I would like to say a few things.
1.Remember the balance the roleplay and vibe is a good idea but don't forget to try and mix gameplay and stuff to do with it, I have seen a few games add to much roleplay and world building and forget about gameplay and flow.
2. I like the idea of the bunnies being bullied by the goombas maybe some bunnies could be hiding in fear while are others getting attacked and maybe if you find hiding bunnies you get a few coins or something?
3. I am a little worried about the vibes and roleplay becoming samey in other levels like A few levels being attacked is fine but I would also love to see other ideas for level roleplay and vibe other then (Place under attack by evil NPC help said NPC) I mean it could work but it would be nice to maybe have a gimmick like maybe in a ghost stage have the boos possess friendly NPCs and you have to free them somehow.
Just a few ideas.
this is the only level under attack.
@@KazeClips Oh I wish you good vibes and stuff as you find out how you want to set up all the other levels stuff.
Sounds very cool, also add some carrots to the splash screeen?
More games should be like what you are doing, where you make actual changes in the game as you play
Yes! Hahaha, YES!
I love to see people recognize and apply this approach to games.
This is a fantastic breakthrough Kaze, really looking forward to seeing this shape up to be even better than it was going to be!
It leans into exactly what Nintendo did with Super Mario Sunshine. They too must've noticed how in SM64 its stars are randomly placed around levels, so in Sunshine they made an effort to make each level feel like a place, with the Shines also serving the overall purpose of bringing the sun back to the island. Mario Sunshine has its flaws, but I think it teaches a lot in game design that could be built upon to make an even better game.
Do the Stars themselves serve some overall purpose in the grand story of the whole game? Do I feel like the town / forest / place is able to thrive because of the player's efforts?
Having some sort of consistency or 'flow' from Star to Star really helps bring a world together. It feels like you're not just achieving some arbitrary task, but actually helping out around the area. Mario Sunshine made each Shine feel like it represented a day (they'd often refer to "thanks for your help yesterday") and so by the end of it, you feel like you truly helped out everyone on the island in some way, with the blue coins being like a payment for doing additional cleaning. It's a side task that suits the narrative of "clean up the island".
This is something that is lacking in so many games even to this day. It doesn't have to be super deep, but just enough that everything serves some sort of purpose in this world you're creating. The limits are only your imagination.
yeah it's really just about making sure the player "gets the idea/vibe" and not so much about being deep and explicit. it's a passive kind of fantasy play
Yeah, make the world FEEL ALIVE
Mini games mini games everywhere
The one issue is that I would make the overrun Gomba issue the second quest, sort of like you escalated the conflict by breaking the balance, then have to correct it.
I think you've nailed it.
By looking at just the gameplay alone, you might think this is the PC port, but the moment you look at the window title and icon you realize that this is NOT the PC port.
Thats serious skill.
This makes a lot of sense
Beyond talented
@KazeClips are those textures on screen the same as used on real n64 or do you use a texture pack ? Since they look to high res for N64 KB texture memory.
they are the same as on real n64. you can make textures look pretty high res if you use the right tricks on n64.
I think it depends on if you want this to feel more like a polished Mario 64 sequel, or a game that bridges Mario 64 and Sunshine. Those world-building moments of saving NPCs feels very Sunshine, but I think they can also take away from the simplicity of 64. Personally I really like the idea, but I just wanted to mention this so you don't think you need to go back to the drawing board on every level or something. It's not that you've been making the levels "wrong", it's that your perspective of what you want out of the game may be shifting.
is this from a stream?
Kinda reminds me about what gaben said in the half life documentary, very good advice!
So true! It's kind of crazy how Nintendo used to understand this, but as time has gone on, so many of their games sacrificed *all* world building/place-ness for the moment to moment gameplay. The RTYI demo already blew me away, and the improvements look fantastic, but now adding this next layer of world building onto it, it really feels like it captures the spirit of old Nintendo from the, SNES to GameCube days. And perhaps in some ways, even improves on it. Fantastic work!
Trees around the level could be much bigger to fit the size of the carrots and trunks.
so instead of a game with soul it will be a game with soul, heart, blood and sweat. it like it whatever make the game even more legendary than it already is im good with :P
I kinda thought you were memeing at the beginning of the video but you definitely have a point.
That's a good insight. Most of the storytelling in a game like this should come from the environment things happening around you. Having the goombas bully the bunnies will make the player feel that the level is more alive and dynamic and increase the tension of the level.
Ah! I see what you mean! You're using the level and the gameplay to tell a story!
I was expecting this video to be some kind of joke but no this is generally good world building
I'm so excited for these disgusting amounts of polish. Take all the time you need!
Color picks have improved a lot too.
A hat in time does this well.
I also see it as removing plotholes or logical problems. "Why is the bunny just chilling there if the place is overrun by goombas? Wouldn't the goombas bully them?"
I always imagine that a mindful player is playing my game and criticizing it 😂 so you are completely correct, these little details and story elements hugely increase immersion, and successful games are full of it.
Maybe some of the bunnies would barricade themselves and hide 🤔
Legend
The reason why players like interactive worlds is because they want their ego to be acknowledged when they do stuff in the world.
you’re cooking kaze
Such a huge philosophy, so excited to see how this serves the hack
But what if the rabbits were the ones who incited this conflict, and they're just playing victims?
I thought from the start of the video that you were being sarcastic, but it's true that i got so used to hacks that didn't world build each level that i wasn't expecting such ideas from them anymore., but i think the same could be said about a lot of levels from og mario 64, not all have npcs with dialogues, so i think it's completely normal but if you want more levels like bomb-omb that tell a story as the level slightly changes it's npcs through the stars, this could be required to make your feel more immersive.
Although, it's not just that, but in my opinion the levels also need gimmicks or mechanics to differ them from others, in mario 64 even levels that didn't have npcs had it's focus in being different not just by visuals but from what mario did in them, sorta like kirby style a lot of levels had you doing something new as it's own thing so if you repeat mechanics randomly in fan made levels it just doesn't catch the same vibe, it kinda goes with what you say, so for example if it's a forest then you do need more trees and vines, perhaps branches or vines that fell, the map shown in the video looks more like a farm.
yeah i don't think vanilla mario 64 does what i'm describing here well either. mario sunshine gets the closest to the roleplaying aspects. i dont think there's been a mario game that does the vibe well (but if you wanted to see a game that hits the vibe perfectly, check out missing link)
@@KazeClips it's easier to world build with mario sunshine since it all takes place in delfino island instead of multiple worlds, there's more space to do sub-areas to it as you add a lot of npcs, events and conversations that make the place feel alive rather than being a showcase, so that's probably why in my opinion.
i know all you mention is roleplaying but i think the terms of immersion, lore and world building could be less confusing to people.
i would recommend you to play some jrpgs to see how they do their rpg world building aspects,
or even kirby games like the 3ds ones to see how they make each world stand out.
anywyas, funny of you to recommend missing link, but yes i had a plan to play it these days anyways by coincidence.
Please, follow the forest path idea!
He's beginning to believe.
I like the path into the forest idea. The sky scene is too empty.
Am I the only one who thinks the squash & streatch on mario is over the top?
Sounds good to me
Average roblox developer mindset: games are not about the quality of assets or moment to moment gameplay
I think the background is a bit too close. It feels like a painted wall.
I've always felt like Return to Yoshi's Island was seriously missing something. It's not just the roleplay that is missing. The general gameplay design is all over the place in quality. There are some challenges that still look... eh. And there are some bad habits in design I've noticed that are holding over from your Last Impact days, like little gimmicks that kind of work in isolation but don't hold up in execution at all. I'm hoping the "roleplay" gameplay design might give some more ideas on how to make the game cohesively engaging in gameplay across the board, too.
hmm ill need this to be a bit more specific before i can evaluate this
No, I don’t think so. This is the best looking thing I’ve seen running on N64 for sure. He made some great points in the video, but even before it was still far better than anything first party, in my opinion.
Kinda surprised that you test your game with PJ64 1.6 instead of a more modern, accurate N64 emulator like Mupen64Plus-Next, RMG or even PJ64 3.0...
Are you trying to ensure your game runs properly on even an early 2000's potato emulator?
PD: I like the idea to focus a little more on the roleplay. I think Mario Sunshine put a bit more effort on that, and I personally really liked the game for it. So I say go for it!
If i want accuracy, ill use my n64
@@KazeClips True.
WE ARE HAVING GTA 6 BEFORE THIS ROMHACK 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️🗣️💯💯💯💯
That would not be a mario game any longer, but a mario themed zelda, this is not banjo! 😂
it'll still be all mario gameplay. the roleplay/vibes are almost entirely passive visuals that don't affect gameplay.
I was joking, traditional mario tend to lean in abstract design with a few skeumorphism to convey the challenge and gameplay tones, as such you are importing different aesthetics in a mario structure, which is why it's a kaze mario instead of a nintendo mario, which is good@@KazeClips what would be cool is to see it mature beyond mario to a full kaze aesthetics, ie to grow your own character and gameplay world. I'm waiting the next project 😁
I’m sure that this will add a great deal of immersion to your project, but“much more important that moment to moment gameplay”? Feels a little sensationalized to me. Definitely a worthwhile consideration while making a game, though.
The elements you've brought up here all matter, and should be considered in designing a narrative-world-structure game. But really, you're working towards a complete, holistic design approach; developing a complete graph of relevant relationships between all elements in the game, trying to avoid thematic isolation/incongruency of any individual element. And the set of elements is really everything, from boot-to-finish, that the player experiences, even the out-of-game menus. And as you said about the relationship between the bunnies and goombas, evolution of the world is itself an element.
And your aggressive chasing of optimization matters in any game. Poor performance always worsens the experience. After all, there's no frame drops IRL, breaking immersion.
yeah i didn't mean to say that it doesn't matter at all - i moreso now consider it a means to an end goal (engagement)
don't lean on that too much. there are games and games. i don't think people play mario games for anything but the awesome movement mechanics. if you start gatekeeping quests and such, it'll quickly become a nuisance, specially for replaying the level. the mechanics of the game is what creates engagement in mario. not the world building.
tl;dr: think about how these additions will feel after the 5th, 10th, 100th replay. if they're not an annoyance, then they're good additions.
what i mention here has no gameplay implications
Is this sarcasm, sorry im drunk.😊
You are an artist
I love art
I hate when you swear
i dont even notice when i swear
@@KazeClips no prob kan, you do awesome stuff
youd be an amazing coach if youd curse more in your videos
Totally agree with this new approach. Tbh, I always thought that the first world felt rather boring compared to your other worlds and I wasn't really sure why, but now I think this idea might actually be the cause of it. Looking forward to seeing what you end up doing with this concept!