Go to betterhelp.com/automobilistic for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #advert.
i got permabanned and IP banned from their website edit: also btw, the people there are not licensed therapists so calling them such is false advertisement
look up the US FTC official government report on betterhelp scamming patients, using "therapists" that weren't licensed, and selling medical data to the likes of Facebook and other social media platforms. their money is dirty money.
For me Silk Cut takes the win. Well, purple is my favourite colour. Got a lot of purple clothes, I also upholstered my MB W202 interior in purple cloth with white accents 😂
Never knew Marlboro was cigarettes brand. I honestly thought they were a racing team like I was very young at the time when I saw paint scheme and livery design. Like you tried telling 5 years old me that brand is cig and I wouldn’t believe it. The colors of red and white along with the arrow shape just makes it a really striking but simple design next to gulf and martini.
Jaguar actually kickstarted the most colorful era after Porsche dominance with flat-sixes, having NA V12 (Jaguar), Twin-Turbo V8 (Benz), Rotary (Mazda), F1 spec V10 (Peugeot) winning Le Mans during that time was remarkable
Managed to attend numerous IMSA races in the 80’s and early 90’s. Not only were Jaguar and Porsche involved but Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM all fielded prototypes. Not to mention the GTO and GTU classes with numerous different manufacturers. Hell of a lot of great racing in this series over the years and recent years as well
Hoping to make it to 6 hours at glen again this year with all the new hypercar entries. Even in the past few years the GT cars (particularly lexus and porsche) sounded awesome. Maybe corvette and BMW too
I love that I can instantly notice and point out what was in the old video's script. But I really like the new video as well. Keep it up, you're one of those people who upload and I instantly stop doing whatever I'm doing and watch.
@fqeagles21 its not a reupload at all. The old video got some things wrong, and was just about the xjr-9. I wanted to make a video about Jaguar's whole Group C program, including the xjr-9, which is why some bits about that car specifically might sound familiar. This video is much more accurate and explores the story of the entire XJR Group C series not just the xjr-9 (hence why its nearly 3 times as long lol)
@@automobilistic I meant that you yoinked a few sentences from the old video, even if it was on accident :) It's like a nice Easter egg for everyone who watched the first video.
@@automobilisticI gratefully prefer these longer vids with a broader spectrum of information. Following long term situations exposes the footprints of development and the evolution of design. Plus my coffee and smoke last about the same amount of time.
I was there. We did a last lap (friend driving his company car) of the circuit just minutes before the public roads were closed - got chased off by the gendarmerie!
Awesome video once again dude! Jaguar’s story at taking the fight in Group C is legendary, especially with achieving two wins in the era at the 24 hours of Le Mans!
No words about the contorversial finish of the 1988 23:58min of LeMans? If the race would go the full distance and lasted 1 Lap longer, the Porsche would have taken the win. Because the Jaguar was limping.
I really like your videos. I grew up with the Gran Turismo games and the Le Mans races on Eurosport. It is very interesting to learn more about these fascinating cars. Plus your pleasant voice and passionate nature. Keep up the good work!
I was at Mid-Ohio the year Jaguar won Le Man and was making demo laps during the IMSA weekend. Since it was a Mid-Ohio race weekend it was raining (of course it was raining). Brundle did insane laps with glorious noise and huge rooster tails!
my first racing game was gt3, and i instantly fell in love with group c, the jag, minolta toyota, saubers and the mazda were my favs, but this looks the best with its covered rear tires
Very good video explaining some of the lesser well-known characteristics of the Jag Group C cars. Thanks for that! I might add a couple of observations, happy to discuss those of course! First off, increasing engine displacement for the XJR-8 was less because of more top-end power, but for increased torque across a wider rev spectrum. This had a similar effect to what Mercedes were doing with their low-boost V8s. This lowered average fuel consumption, which was so critical in Group C. You can also observe the massive advances in carbon fiber technology during the mid-80s. Porsche actually looked at a CF chassis when designing the 956, but decided against it because they didn’t see a lot of advantages at that stage. Just a couple of years later though, it was evident that the conventional aluminum chassis couldn’t stand a chance against the newly designed Jag chassis - not just because of its lower weight, but because it could handle the increased load of that massive downforce you mentioned. And let’s not forget one crucial piece of the puzzle here. Yes, Tony Southgate‘s design was excellent in terms of chassis strength and aerodynamic refinement. Arguably though, Tom Walkinshaw‘s uncanny ability to bend the rules right up to the breaking point, and doing naughty things when nobody was looking, was even more important for TWR‘s success.
Good stuff! I watched the Jaguars throughout the IMSA GTP days race at Mid-Ohio. The GTP days were magical watching all the manufacturers beating the hell out of each other each week. Mid-Ohio was packed to the hilt for the IMSA GT weekends with SCCA Trans-Am series racing too. It was a race fans dream weekend actually. Trans-Am back then was also a manufacturers battlefield. I see those battlefields starting back up next year with GT/Hypercar/Prototype again....can't wait! Multiple manufacturers racing each other is the best.
Ah yes the 80s, the best decade in motor racing history! Not just the gorgeous Group C cars but the incredible turbo powered F1 cars, the totally bonkers Group B rally cars, the ridiculous Paris Dakar rally cars and bikes (when it actually was Paris to Dakar) and the incredible American domination of the 500cc grand prix bikes!
I am a lucky man went to every LeMans from 87 to 91 and 95 for the XJ220 also every Silverstone, Brands Hatch & Donnington 1000km oh & a Spa race, during this period. Don’t know if I missed this point & I know it isn’t part of your subject but every year Jaguar won LeMans they also won the Daytona 24 hrs a few months before. Some people have commented that the Jag engine was the worst in group C. The whole point was jaguar cars wanted their cars to race with an engine that actually came out of their road cars! It worked I owned a BRG V12 XJS for years. Oh at Brands Hatch they raced one car with a 48 valve engine (normally the V12 is only 24 valve) they found out it was far to top heavy and went with the V6 turbo engine.
A very fine video. You present very well and have a fine speaking voice. It’s wonderful to hear an historic talk delivered grammatically correctly in the past tense. Keep up the good work. Very best wishes, Adrian
Been watching for abit. Love your vocals, storytelling, and facts. But I would say, KEEP IT GOING, nice young man. You have brought to my attention stuff that when it was happening, slipped past me. Thank you.
Hey man, your WSC/WEC videos are fantastic! The other videos are awesome too, but I really really enjoy these! I dread the day you've done them all and we won't have any more of them 😅 but I think there was a mistake in this one, @16:04 isn't that Sauber a V8? At least I always thought it was!
all the Sauber Mercedes cars up to the C11 were V8s. But the 1991 C291 used a 3.5L N/A Flat 12 (which wasn't very good). Mercedes designed the new engine for the 3.5L N/A engine rule change that made their twin-turbo 5L V8 ineligible for group C1.
That one special optical Feature of that car and many others after it i recognized: the rear wing is apart mounted and after all behind to the backside of the car and not above of it!
If anything this showed that glory days of sports cars brought drivers, engineers and team principals we all think are F1 personal. As always brilliant video👌🏼
Great content. One correction though... the XJR-16 was developed by TWR USA for use specifically in IMSA GTP. The design ethos was maximum downforce, at the expense of aerodynamic efficiency. TWR considered this most appropriate for the IMSA GTP tracks of the time... mostly street circuits and high downforce tracks like Laguna Seca and Lime Rock. The high downforce, high drag design would have been ineffective on the smooth, longer circuits of Europe. The keen eyed among you will point out that the XJR-16 won at Road Atlanta and Road America in 1991 - both tracks that emphasize straight line speed (especially Road America). I have no response for this...
While the XJR9 was an incredibly gifted racing car, I cant be alone in thinking it’s very strange looking. The C9 and 962 were far more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion
The 1987 car when they ran larger rear wheels and without spats was more conventional looking, but most people don't look past the XJR9 from Gran Turismo etc.
Jaguar cheated to win the 1988 Le Mans. During the night, they brought in the lead car into the pits of one of the other 5 that dropped out, got that one extra tank of fuel to keep ahead of the 962C #17 which was relentlessly reeling it in lap-after-lap (especially during the rain, like 3-7 seconds a lap). I worked with the same mechanic I met at the race (I did an engineering stint for Porsche North America) from Jaguar. 1 year later he's at Jim Busby's IMSA team(Laguna Beach CA) who campaigned 962's in the US. He confirmed what was suspected all along (and I wonder WHY he looked so glum after the race at the celebration party...he KNEW that 'win' was as fake as a 3-dollar bill)). Today, with camera's/eyes everywhere, that wouldn't happen. - In hindsight, like the F40, whereas Jaguar debuted the XJ220 as a failed response to the 959(of which every car on the planet now has some it's DNA), the XJ220(which REALLY sucked) is but now a forgotten asterisk in history.
always hear vague stories of TW's shenanigans but never actual stories like this! Sounds fishy tho, there's so many cameras on the lead cars when they pit that even if the notoriously arsy track officials missed a car driving to the wrong box there'd be plenty of evidence to uphold a complaint.
It was the XJR-9LM that knocked the Ford GT 40 off of the top of my favorite race car. Not mentioned is that the XJR-9 engine was based heavily on the standard production V12. It used the same single overhead came heads (modified of course), and the same block, bored out being one of the major changes. The Jaguar V12 gets a lot of bad press for reliability, but the engine itself was a highly reliable engine, so long as it was not allowed to overheat. Most of the reliability issues were electronics and emissions associated components.
That Porsche achieved success in their first year in GrpC, whereas TWR took 3 years to get the championship, and 4 to get Le Mans, is an indicator of 2 things: 1. Porsche did really well out of the box 2. The bar to succeed in GrpC after Porsche got there was far higher than in the beginning. Once they got it together, they were fantastic, but then Sauber caught up and surpassed them. They did fundamentally elevate the level of the game, though.
Tom Walkinshaw always stated that three years was the target for Le Mans success, which they achieved in 88. It was 3 years not 4 as you stated because the XJR6 didn't run at Le Mans in 1985. As for Porsche winning in group c from the outset, somebody had to and the Rondeau, WM, SHS and Lola were not as competitive in the years before so no reason to suggest they would suddenly come good. The closest cars to the works Porsche initially were modified coupe 936's from the late 70's which tells you plenty.
@@marks7197 keep in mind that they had to create a monstrous 7L V12 to beat a tine 3L flat 6.. the first V12 iteration didnt even have top speed over the flat 6 for some reason
@@Keckegenkai The 956/962s Flat 6 Turbo had been around for nearly a decade by the time Group C was introduced, to the point they were virtually bomb-proof, thus the Porsches were pretty much guaranteed to finish every race they started as long as they didn't crash. Selling loads of 956s and 962s to privateers to provide strength in numbers certainly also helped with increasing Porsche's odds of winning.
At Le Mans (rather than the championship) 1989 was the only year without a works Porsche, Joest were given works status in 1990 too. The exception being the Rothmans factory boycott in '84 that is.
I saw the Bud light Jag at Lime Rock Park. That car cut 2 seconds off the record. You could hear that engine HOWL from all the way on the backstretch. It beat everyone that year.😊
Love these videos about le mans and the golden era of sports cars with group C! Great job as always :) also makes me so happy that Hypercar is here and so far seems to have the potential to bring the top class of sportscars/WEC back into the limelight, wonder if in 20-30 years time we'll talk about it in the same way we're still captivated by group c now? :)
No way man. I am sorry but Hypercar, with its crap BOP rulings, will never bring the limelight. I don't think it will even be as successful as the diesel battles of the early 2010s.
@@perfectman3077 For a spectator, this year LM 24H was the most interesting in history. But technically, yes, no progress at all and cars are limited hard. That was a big surprise for me that drag to lift ratio is limited
old video got some things wrong, and was just about the xjr-9. I wanted to make a video about Jaguar's whole Group C program, including the xjr-9, so some bits might sound familiar. This video is much more accurate and complete
Where Porsche win in the big picture is that they compete year after year, they are always competing. Ford, Jaguar et al may beat them a few times but they don't persist like Porsche do which has established them as the performance car to have. Besides Porsche sell cars similar to most of their racers, the pretend competitors usually don't so what's the point. It's a pity that at least one of the big car companies don't persist in their racing.
It'd be a good topic generally, Porsche were disqualified after illegally replacing an alternator in the past by dropping the broken one in a bucket of water and pulling out a brand new one from the same bucket. When the car had gone back out an observant official put his hand in the water and pulled out the old one.
@@Keckegenkai It doesn't specifically, it was a response that highlights that all teams are looking for rule bending opportunities and efforts to discredit certain teams need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
If you get a chance you should take a look at Toyota's rise to dominance in IMSA during this same period, they went from being also midpack also ran's in the late 80's too being so dominant in '92 and '93 that they won back to back titles with the AAR Eagle Mk III despite IMSA actually introducing special rules for them that limited their turbo boost and forced them to run a high downforce set up at every race in '93. In '93 they won every race except for the road america event, and that was only because they were unable to participate due to toyota deciding to boycott the race since they weren't happy with how they were being treated.
Go to betterhelp.com/automobilistic for 10% off your first month of therapy with BetterHelp and get matched with a therapist who will listen and help #advert.
i got permabanned and IP banned from their website
edit: also btw, the people there are not licensed therapists so calling them such is false advertisement
look up the US FTC official government report on betterhelp scamming patients, using "therapists" that weren't licensed, and selling medical data to the likes of Facebook and other social media platforms. their money is dirty money.
It's' funny how cigarette company sponsors, made for the best-looking liveries: Silk Cut, John Player Special, Rothmans, Marlboro, etc.
All of them second to Martini and Gulf liveries, but your point still stands..
For me Silk Cut takes the win. Well, purple is my favourite colour. Got a lot of purple clothes, I also upholstered my MB W202 interior in purple cloth with white accents 😂
Cerbs got painted red and white because of Marlboro
My personal favorite, however, is the Mazda Renown 787.
Never knew Marlboro was cigarettes brand. I honestly thought they were a racing team like I was very young at the time when I saw paint scheme and livery design. Like you tried telling 5 years old me that brand is cig and I wouldn’t believe it.
The colors of red and white along with the arrow shape just makes it a really striking but simple design next to gulf and martini.
Jaguar actually kickstarted the most colorful era after Porsche dominance with flat-sixes, having NA V12 (Jaguar), Twin-Turbo V8 (Benz), Rotary (Mazda), F1 spec V10 (Peugeot) winning Le Mans during that time was remarkable
NOW UNDER tata
They only race at electric only
While BMW Audi Porsche Mercedes left FE
The sheer variety & innovation of Group C is why it will always remain my favorite era of motorsport
Managed to attend numerous IMSA races in the 80’s and early 90’s. Not only were Jaguar and Porsche involved but Toyota, Nissan, Ford, GM all fielded prototypes. Not to mention the GTO and GTU classes with numerous different manufacturers. Hell of a lot of great racing in this series over the years and recent years as well
The Castrol liveried Jaguars were just as gorgeous as the Silk Cut ones.
Hoping to make it to 6 hours at glen again this year with all the new hypercar entries. Even in the past few years the GT cars (particularly lexus and porsche) sounded awesome. Maybe corvette and BMW too
Too bad jaguar can't do that anymore
Same here...all incredible cars, some many different manufacturers...and the stunningly beautiful Mazda RX-792P !
I love that I can instantly notice and point out what was in the old video's script. But I really like the new video as well. Keep it up, you're one of those people who upload and I instantly stop doing whatever I'm doing and watch.
Why the reupload
@fqeagles21 its not a reupload at all. The old video got some things wrong, and was just about the xjr-9. I wanted to make a video about Jaguar's whole Group C program, including the xjr-9, which is why some bits about that car specifically might sound familiar. This video is much more accurate and explores the story of the entire XJR Group C series not just the xjr-9 (hence why its nearly 3 times as long lol)
@@automobilistic ok awesome vid
@@automobilistic I meant that you yoinked a few sentences from the old video, even if it was on accident :) It's like a nice Easter egg for everyone who watched the first video.
@@automobilisticI gratefully prefer these longer vids with a broader spectrum of information. Following long term situations exposes the footprints of development and the evolution of design.
Plus my coffee and smoke last about the same amount of time.
The XJR9 is my personal favourite Group C car, got to see the iconic Le Mans 88 winning car at the British Motor Museum a few years ago.
mercades c9 here
I was there. We did a last lap (friend driving his company car) of the circuit just minutes before the public roads were closed - got chased off by the gendarmerie!
Awesome video once again dude! Jaguar’s story at taking the fight in Group C is legendary, especially with achieving two wins in the era at the 24 hours of Le Mans!
The Imperial College shoutout caught me off guard! I'm doing a masters in mechanical engineering there currently. Great vid as always!
No words about the contorversial finish of the 1988 23:58min of LeMans? If the race would go the full distance and lasted 1 Lap longer, the Porsche would have taken the win. Because the Jaguar was limping.
The Ford C100 Mk 3 sounds like a neat topic for a video.
That depends on how many times you like to hear the word vibration.
Yeah, obsession with long tails could become a problem in some circumstances.
I remember my dad buying a gallon of oil in the early 90s and it had a model of this jag on the box
I really like your videos. I grew up with the Gran Turismo games and the Le Mans races on Eurosport. It is very interesting to learn more about these fascinating cars. Plus your pleasant voice and passionate nature. Keep up the good work!
I was at Mid-Ohio the year Jaguar won Le Man and was making demo laps during the IMSA weekend. Since it was a Mid-Ohio race weekend it was raining (of course it was raining). Brundle did insane laps with glorious noise and huge rooster tails!
Well Done. Bravo!
Love the jag group c cars, Especially that XJR-14, that's for the high quality videos!
my first racing game was gt3, and i instantly fell in love with group c, the jag, minolta toyota, saubers and the mazda were my favs, but this looks the best with its covered rear tires
I saw one of these variants in a museum as a kid and it looked like a spaceship going 1000mph standing still!....Awesome machines...
You're really good at this man..
Man im glad to see this channel grow.. you have a better content than most main stream channels😂😂😂 keep up the great work 👍
Take a shot every time he says “jaguar” and “Le Mans”
Great move with that BetterHelp ad, yet you with your voice could go and work with them surely - it's ultra calming and relaxing!
Its too bad BetterHelp is shady af but it's a good ad
For me the XJR14 is the most beautiful Le Mans car in history. Fantastic shape, livery, even sound.
And I’m a life long Ferrari F1 fan.
Such a good video. Great job, going through your other vids.
As a french man I love your cotenent and the way you tell racing stories ! The English accent may also play a role... 👍
Very good video explaining some of the lesser well-known characteristics of the Jag Group C cars. Thanks for that!
I might add a couple of observations, happy to discuss those of course!
First off, increasing engine displacement for the XJR-8 was less because of more top-end power, but for increased torque across a wider rev spectrum. This had a similar effect to what Mercedes were doing with their low-boost V8s. This lowered average fuel consumption, which was so critical in Group C.
You can also observe the massive advances in carbon fiber technology during the mid-80s. Porsche actually looked at a CF chassis when designing the 956, but decided against it because they didn’t see a lot of advantages at that stage. Just a couple of years later though, it was evident that the conventional aluminum chassis couldn’t stand a chance against the newly designed Jag chassis - not just because of its lower weight, but because it could handle the increased load of that massive downforce you mentioned.
And let’s not forget one crucial piece of the puzzle here. Yes, Tony Southgate‘s design was excellent in terms of chassis strength and aerodynamic refinement. Arguably though, Tom Walkinshaw‘s uncanny ability to bend the rules right up to the breaking point, and doing naughty things when nobody was looking, was even more important for TWR‘s success.
Good stuff! I watched the Jaguars throughout the IMSA GTP days race at Mid-Ohio. The GTP days were magical watching all the manufacturers beating the hell out of each other each week. Mid-Ohio was packed to the hilt for the IMSA GT weekends with SCCA Trans-Am series racing too. It was a race fans dream weekend actually. Trans-Am back then was also a manufacturers battlefield. I see those battlefields starting back up next year with GT/Hypercar/Prototype again....can't wait! Multiple manufacturers racing each other is the best.
Man! Your videos are so well done. I’m a big fan of racing, but I still learn new things from your videos.
Ah yes the 80s, the best decade in motor racing history! Not just the gorgeous Group C cars but the incredible turbo powered F1 cars, the totally bonkers Group B rally cars, the ridiculous Paris Dakar rally cars and bikes (when it actually was Paris to Dakar) and the incredible American domination of the 500cc grand prix bikes!
Yay a new awesome video once again !🎉
I am a lucky man went to every LeMans from 87 to 91 and 95 for the XJ220 also every Silverstone, Brands Hatch & Donnington 1000km oh & a Spa race, during this period. Don’t know if I missed this point & I know it isn’t part of your subject but every year Jaguar won LeMans they also won the Daytona 24 hrs a few months before. Some people have commented that the Jag engine was the worst in group C. The whole point was jaguar cars wanted their cars to race with an engine that actually came out of their road cars! It worked I owned a BRG V12 XJS for years.
Oh at Brands Hatch they raced one car with a 48 valve engine (normally the V12 is only 24 valve) they found out it was far to top heavy and went with the V6 turbo engine.
A very fine video. You present very well and have a fine speaking voice. It’s wonderful to hear an historic talk delivered grammatically correctly in the past tense. Keep up the good work. Very best wishes, Adrian
Been watching for abit. Love your vocals, storytelling, and facts. But I would say, KEEP IT GOING, nice young man. You have brought to my attention stuff that when it was happening, slipped past me. Thank you.
LETSGOOO new automobilistic vid
Silk Cut were awful cigarettes, had to wrap the sticky part of a rizla paper over the holes to make them worth smoking
That V12 Jag tho
The research knowledge and content of this channel is absolutely fantastic
Love the depth these videos go into
I had no clue about the XJR-11. Great video as always 😎😎
I assume it was associated with the IMSA XJR-10, and shared engine and chassis. Eventually refined into the XJR-16.
@@ziggystardust4627 I thought it was v12s until they switched to the 3.5 v8 all this time
Love these videos. These videos are much appreciated while im up with my new born son :) keep up the great work
Hey man, your WSC/WEC videos are fantastic! The other videos are awesome too, but I really really enjoy these! I dread the day you've done them all and we won't have any more of them 😅 but I think there was a mistake in this one, @16:04 isn't that Sauber a V8? At least I always thought it was!
all the Sauber Mercedes cars up to the C11 were V8s. But the 1991 C291 used a 3.5L N/A Flat 12 (which wasn't very good). Mercedes designed the new engine for the 3.5L N/A engine rule change that made their twin-turbo 5L V8 ineligible for group C1.
That one special optical Feature of that car and many others after it i recognized: the rear wing is apart mounted and after all behind to the backside of the car and not above of it!
Thank you for this video! Great footage and information that is TV documentary quality.
If anything this showed that glory days of sports cars brought drivers, engineers and team principals we all think are F1 personal. As always brilliant video👌🏼
Great job mate 👏🏻👏🏻
Great content. One correction though... the XJR-16 was developed by TWR USA for use specifically in IMSA GTP. The design ethos was maximum downforce, at the expense of aerodynamic efficiency. TWR considered this most appropriate for the IMSA GTP tracks of the time... mostly street circuits and high downforce tracks like Laguna Seca and Lime Rock.
The high downforce, high drag design would have been ineffective on the smooth, longer circuits of Europe.
The keen eyed among you will point out that the XJR-16 won at Road Atlanta and Road America in 1991 - both tracks that emphasize straight line speed (especially Road America). I have no response for this...
Everyone knows the thing that made Jaguar faster was the Silk Cut livery ☺️👌
I began to follow Jag after I saw and heard the 85 entry, they had me hooked from there.
Always loved the jag. Even my favourite on my scalextric set
what an era! great video 👍
I swear you came out the womb with this buttery smooth documentary voice
Love your videos please make more and more and more❤
While the XJR9 was an incredibly gifted racing car, I cant be alone in thinking it’s very strange looking. The C9 and 962 were far more aesthetically pleasing in my opinion
Aesthetically pleasing doesn't win races. It's a byproduct.
I'm a huge Porsche 956/962 fan, but I think the Jags are sexy AF.
Indeed, but the C9 beat the XJR9. @@samuelgarrod8327
@@samuelgarrod8327 I’m acutely aware of this, I was just bringing it up to see if I was alone in thinking that
The 1987 car when they ran larger rear wheels and without spats was more conventional looking, but most people don't look past the XJR9 from Gran Turismo etc.
The XJR9 car was the next generation Group C car. It made the 962 obsolete. A bit like the 917 did with the GT40.
1988 le mans laps completed:
Jaguar 394
Porsche 394
It took 35 years to make the Porsche obsolete. Its Nürburgring record stood for that long.
@@siniyden 1988 World Sportscar Championship wins: Jaguar 6
Sauber-Mercedes 5
Porsche 0
@@mrspandel5737 1988 World Sportscar Championship
Factory porsches competed: 0
Less goooo new upload
Jaguar cheated to win the 1988 Le Mans. During the night, they brought in the lead car into the pits of one of the other 5 that dropped out, got that one extra tank of fuel to keep ahead of the 962C #17 which was relentlessly reeling it in lap-after-lap (especially during the rain, like 3-7 seconds a lap). I worked with the same mechanic I met at the race (I did an engineering stint for Porsche North America) from Jaguar. 1 year later he's at Jim Busby's IMSA team(Laguna Beach CA) who campaigned 962's in the US. He confirmed what was suspected all along (and I wonder WHY he looked so glum after the race at the celebration party...he KNEW that 'win' was as fake as a 3-dollar bill)). Today, with camera's/eyes everywhere, that wouldn't happen.
-
In hindsight, like the F40, whereas Jaguar debuted the XJ220 as a failed response to the 959(of which every car on the planet now has some it's DNA), the XJ220(which REALLY sucked) is but now a forgotten asterisk in history.
always hear vague stories of TW's shenanigans but never actual stories like this! Sounds fishy tho, there's so many cameras on the lead cars when they pit that even if the notoriously arsy track officials missed a car driving to the wrong box there'd be plenty of evidence to uphold a complaint.
@@alexeiberrow3189 Walkinshaws fuel cheat with the expansion bottle is well known, now, at least, though it wasn't news at the time
Alpine A443 is one car that not many know about, would be nice if you made a video about it
And porsche said the last word in 1994. Actually 962 won that race
It was the XJR-9LM that knocked the Ford GT 40 off of the top of my favorite race car. Not mentioned is that the XJR-9 engine was based heavily on the standard production V12. It used the same single overhead came heads (modified of course), and the same block, bored out being one of the major changes. The Jaguar V12 gets a lot of bad press for reliability, but the engine itself was a highly reliable engine, so long as it was not allowed to overheat. Most of the reliability issues were electronics and emissions associated components.
very good video as usual!
Gratz on 50k
the thumbnail is amazing
That Porsche achieved success in their first year in GrpC, whereas TWR took 3 years to get the championship, and 4 to get Le Mans, is an indicator of 2 things:
1. Porsche did really well out of the box
2. The bar to succeed in GrpC after Porsche got there was far higher than in the beginning.
Once they got it together, they were fantastic, but then Sauber caught up and surpassed them. They did fundamentally elevate the level of the game, though.
Tom Walkinshaw always stated that three years was the target for Le Mans success, which they achieved in 88. It was 3 years not 4 as you stated because the XJR6 didn't run at Le Mans in 1985. As for Porsche winning in group c from the outset, somebody had to and the Rondeau, WM, SHS and Lola were not as competitive in the years before so no reason to suggest they would suddenly come good. The closest cars to the works Porsche initially were modified coupe 936's from the late 70's which tells you plenty.
@@marks7197 keep in mind that they had to create a monstrous 7L V12 to beat a tine 3L flat 6.. the first V12 iteration didnt even have top speed over the flat 6 for some reason
@@Keckegenkai The 956/962s Flat 6 Turbo had been around for nearly a decade by the time Group C was introduced, to the point they were virtually bomb-proof, thus the Porsches were pretty much guaranteed to finish every race they started as long as they didn't crash. Selling loads of 956s and 962s to privateers to provide strength in numbers certainly also helped with increasing Porsche's odds of winning.
Great vid, thanks. Many thungs i didnt know
Your videos suits your hair, man. Very 80s.
Awesome!!!
All the information here is correct! Congratulations for your research.
And the porsche werent factory supported at the end of the 80s.
At Le Mans (rather than the championship) 1989 was the only year without a works Porsche, Joest were given works status in 1990 too. The exception being the Rothmans factory boycott in '84 that is.
Where do you get all that footage? I want to watch some classic group c footage.
If your looking for classic rallies checkout vhs rallies sadly i don’t know a channel that does the same for any Motorsport
I saw the Bud light Jag at Lime Rock Park. That car cut 2 seconds off the record. You could hear that engine HOWL from all the way on the backstretch. It beat everyone that year.😊
May you please consider a story on the Mark 1 Ford Escort rally cars and/or the 1992 Group C Lola?
awsome video also can you do one for the porsche 919
New video, awesome! 👌🏻🗿🍷
Yeah that's right 😅
What’s with the weird sunglasses inside lol 😂😂😂
Jaguar needs to win 12 le mans races more to match the glory of Porsche, and 13 to dethroned.
Jaguar makes some of the most beautiful cars on the planet, me dream car is an XJS V12 i love the sound of a british V12
Legendary Jag
Did it have Ground Effects?
One my fav of GT4...
THE C9 KILLER
I think the gtp cars of the 80s were so much better looking than the current cars
where are your posts in the background of ur setup from
Love these videos about le mans and the golden era of sports cars with group C! Great job as always :) also makes me so happy that Hypercar is here and so far seems to have the potential to bring the top class of sportscars/WEC back into the limelight, wonder if in 20-30 years time we'll talk about it in the same way we're still captivated by group c now? :)
No way man. I am sorry but Hypercar, with its crap BOP rulings, will never bring the limelight. I don't think it will even be as successful as the diesel battles of the early 2010s.
@@perfectman3077 For a spectator, this year LM 24H was the most interesting in history. But technically, yes, no progress at all and cars are limited hard. That was a big surprise for me that drag to lift ratio is limited
13:45 song?
Where do you get those posters?
Good stuff. Keep it up, okay ?
This car was a menace in Grandturismo 4..IYKYK🎉
This feels like a remaster of the original XJR-9 vid with more information
old video got some things wrong, and was just about the xjr-9. I wanted to make a video about Jaguar's whole Group C program, including the xjr-9, so some bits might sound familiar. This video is much more accurate and complete
@automobilistic no wonder some of the sentences in the first 3mins istg are the same in the original
huh funny how i was using this car in Gran Turismo 5 just a few days ago
Where Porsche win in the big picture is that they compete year after year, they are always competing. Ford, Jaguar et al may beat them a few times but they don't persist like Porsche do which has established them as the performance car to have. Besides Porsche sell cars similar to most of their racers, the pretend competitors usually don't so what's the point. It's a pity that at least one of the big car companies don't persist in their racing.
Unlikely it may be, would love to see Jaguar return in WEC hypercar class.
Somehow the imsa Porsches figured the tunnels out although nissan and jaguar were far better by that point than
Please never take a sponsorship from BetterHelp again, they're far worse than better in pretty much every way
Shall we talk about the 1988 Fuel cheat with the expansion bottles?
It'd be a good topic generally, Porsche were disqualified after illegally replacing an alternator in the past by dropping the broken one in a bucket of water and pulling out a brand new one from the same bucket. When the car had gone back out an observant official put his hand in the water and pulled out the old one.
@@marks7197 When was this then?
@@freedman917 Don't remember the exact year, probably early 70's... Vic Elford mentioned it in his Golden Age book. (Edit: Le Mans 1968)
@@marks7197 what has that to do with group c tho?
@@Keckegenkai It doesn't specifically, it was a response that highlights that all teams are looking for rule bending opportunities and efforts to discredit certain teams need to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Interesting to note that the Joest Porsche that won at LeMans in 1997 was a TWR designed chassis. Okay-okay I'll have fo fact check..... 😅
jaguar xjr9 and bmw m3 gtr is porsche killer in race
Shouldn't the title be like "How jaguar could barely beat a 6 years old car"?
Cheers! 👍💪✌
That's an er unusual pronunciation of Peugeot.
If you get a chance you should take a look at Toyota's rise to dominance in IMSA during this same period, they went from being also midpack also ran's in the late 80's too being so dominant in '92 and '93 that they won back to back titles with the AAR Eagle Mk III despite IMSA actually introducing special rules for them that limited their turbo boost and forced them to run a high downforce set up at every race in '93.
In '93 they won every race except for the road america event, and that was only because they were unable to participate due to toyota deciding to boycott the race since they weren't happy with how they were being treated.
Songs used?
Huge fan of your work btw.
Very concise and stylish.
Just wondering, why did they opt for an NA engine instead of turbos? I doubt that was an accident
They didn't opt for it, that's all they had.
monstrous 7L V12 vs tiny 3L flat 6 and they cant even beat them in top speed in their first iteration? How do you pull that one?
Honestly f1 is kinda shit compared to group c. These cars are actually insane