Alternate method to wiring the EG4 18KPV Hybrid Inverter without a transfer switch
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Instead of a transfer switch with 200 amp pass thru. I tap the feed and run a disconnect, and keep the load on an interlock breaker.
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You might want to do some re-configuration With your main clean out for your plumbing system. If you ever have a back up there gonna be a lot of pressure behind the clean out and you’re also gonna have sewage and water coming out of. It might be a good idea to get that fixed before you have a back up
@jmuller86 Nice upgrade to the wiring configuration. Putting your new disconnect above the main panel sideway would be fine, no prohibition on that in the NEC.
But I see that you have two neutral conductors terminated on the EG4 neutral busbar. Both of those originate from your main panel, one going through the new 70A disconnect above and then down the new LFMC to the inverter, the other going down through the LFMC that goes out the bottom of the main panel to the inverter. If you think about it, those two conductors are in parallel: they both originate at the same busbar (main panel) and ultimately terminate at the same busbar (inverter). Which means that constitutes a 310.10(H) violation, as they are smaller than 1/0.
Perhaps more importantly, any neutral current between the inverter and the main panel will divide along the two paths, regardless of the state of your interlocked breakers. So you'll have a 300.3(B) violation, as not all the conductors of the circuit are in the same conduit.
The solution to both problems is to use only one neutral conductor between the main panel busbar and the inverter busbar, and to route it along with both your (2) interlocked 70A breaker ungrounded conductors and your (2) new 70A tap conductors in a single conduit run that has all 5 conductors. You can use either the upper route through the new 70A disconnect, or the lower route through the bottom of your main panel. If you use the lower route, then you could also delete the neutral wire that goes from the main panel to your new 70A disconnect. Plus the lower route is shorter, so it looks like you'd be under 24" and not have to worry about derating for 4 CCCs.
thanks for the comment. After reading it I realized I had a neutral loop with my own 100amp transfer switch through 2 separate conduits. I have rewired things and now I pass the 5 conductors (2 in from grid to the inverter, and 2 back from inverter to lower lugs of transfer switch, and 1 common neutral) through the transfer switch. And removed the now empty conduit that used to hold the grid to inverter run
Hi Jesse great video, being a retired Plumber I had no idea what you were talking about but enjoyed it as usual.
That story you told about the tech support is amazing!
pretty amazing that EG4's own tech support watched your video, reached out to you with some ideas/suggestions. most of the time, tech support criticizing installs. the K.I.S.S. method makes setup easier for everyone else. transfer switches are huge,noisy. we have 1 buzzing abnormally loudly at our complex, contractor bid some big bux to replace it or disable it since the backup genset was long since abandoned
sounds like free advertising for them bro😂
Glad you recommended re-torquing the connections on the Burndy tap's after 24 hours. It's an important step that so many miss, and loose connections can overheat and eventual fail in a very bad way (Retired electrician) Looking forward to the solar work :)
Unless the Burndy's instructions require you to do that, it is unnecessary. The initial tightening torque is supposed to be set by the manufacturer to ensure a good connection even after everything relaxes a little. Taken to an extreme, if you came back and retightened them every day, eventually you would damage the conductors.
Really appreciate you doing a talk-through at the same time you're doing your work it makes it a lot clearer what you're doing and where you're headed. Thanks so much
Good update, glad your doing the heavy lifting figuring out the what if's of this configuration! It is really cool that you have people from EG 4 following your channel. Sure as heck short cuts the process figuring it out talking directly to the source!! Good post Jesse! Thanks Man!
Cool setup Jesse, so if I understand correctly you've got 200amps coming in from the meter to the taps. The taps connected to both the 200amp main breaker on your panel and the 70 amp breaker you mounted above the panel. Since you don't need anywhere close to 200 amps to run your house, you leave the 70 amp breaker on, grid power normally runs through the inverter and is backfed into the 70amp breaker inside your panel which goes to all the loads. In the event the power is cut from grid the inverter can almost instantaneously switch over to the batteries without interruption. And if for some reason the inverter failed, you can turn off the 70 amp breaker in your panel and move the interlock down and throw the 200 amp main breaker and bring power directly in from the grid bypassing the inverter. Hope I got that right.
Yes, exactly
Hi Jesse… just a question so why add another 70amp breaker between tap wire and inverter? Is it required to put transformer switch or amp breaker I have seen another video where the guy just tapped the main line and connected straight to the grid inverter input and then added 70amp breaker to the main breaker with the interlock switch.. no extra 70amp breaker or transformer switch between the main line tap wire to the grid inverter input. Just trying to understand which is the correct write way.
This setup allows him run the house on grid power while he does work on the inverter.
Great video! My 2 18kpv's arrived yesterday. Now I'm just waiting on my 16kw of panels and 43kwh of batteries to arrive on the slow boat from China.
You are definitely not afraid of hard work. You have an impressive wealth of knowledge on different areas of construction. As far as the mounting of your disconnect I would agree you are correct.
Enclosures containing OCPDs must be mounted in a vertical position unless this is impractical [240.33]. Circuit breaker enclosures can be horizontal if the circuit breaker is installed per 240.81.
Ecmweb Com Mag 710ecm C Bfig4
Fig. 4. Enclosures for overcurrent devices must be mounted in a vertical position, unless this is impractical.
The requirements of 240.81 specify that where circuit breaker handles are operated vertically, the “up” position of the handle must be in the “on” position. Therefore, an enclosure that contains one circuit breaker can be mounted horizontally, but an enclosure that contains a panelboard or load center with multiple circuit breakers on opposite sides of each other would have to be mounted vertically
Thanks for the videos
Great video. I installed my 1st solar system on my 96 year old house back in 2000. I have improved things 3 to 4 times now since then. In 1998 I upgraded the house from the old Tube and Knobs with a 4 fuse panel to a 125 amp panel and installed the main service panel then as well - with permit and inspection. I am a DIYer and have been experimenting with solar since 1992. Today, I have a 100 amp GE/ABB transfer switch that allows me to switch the mostly whole house loads panel between grid and inverter output. My loads are very modest as I worked hard to achieve smart and efficient loads
I use 2 Schneider XW Pro inverters and charge controllers. If I were installing the system today, I would now use the 18kpv like you did. Tech today is so GREAT when compared to a few years ago
My breaker from the grid to my inverter is OFF 99% of the time. I use Chargeverters to re-charge the batteries, either from grid or from small dirty power generators.
Thank you for showing the "tap" process in a real system. I will keep this in mind for possible future use on another house - if I live long enough, I am getting old now. Appreciate again the video, I am sharing it with fellow solar guys. doug
Wow ,i was lost after the breaker was turned off to your home,,,, didnt say i was an electrician,but i bet you had some good information,,,like aways your videos are great.
A brilliant and very current video with increased sales of PV systems and renewable energy.
It's a shame Eg4 didn't have a trigger output with NO / NC contacts to run a grid voltage present auxiliary warning light or buzzer with time delay to notify you of restored services after an outage. It always amazes me at the conductor size of American wiring. It is very different to our British incoming mains. Great video, Jesse
That's the coolest, most high tech utility room I've ever seen. Your house is beautiful! I've really enjoyed watching you and your crew build it. It took a lot of guts and research to tackle this project. You should be proud of yourself!
Let me help you out
1 You have to use a double throw switch or ats
2 two sources of power can't be in the same line and box .
3 A splice box have to go near to your Lb and distribution panel.
You use seal tight flex pipes but both your distribution and disconnect are not water proof plus there are plumbing line less than 3 feet from your electrical
And the list goes on please this installation is not for the do it your selfer and I recommend a riser get done , then approve then installation can happen.
I have 6.6 mega watts of installed and running solar and love the Eg4 system but recommend this installation not to be attempted by do it your selfer.
Keep up the work .
Make sure you use some large labels on that disconnect. Switches can be mounted sideways as long as it’s properly labeled. Nice, well planned installation.
Wow, miles above my pay grade, but so cool to watch you do this and develop your knowledge and understanding of how the system can optimize your life!!
induction stoves are awesome... had a samsung for 5 years now... cooks as good as gas... surface stays clean looking because the glass doesn't reach the high temps the standard electric stovetops do. no hassle of gas either. induction for the win.
I like the methodology you used to make a transfer switch. I'd have to look at my Victron MultiPlus II to see how that it might work in a off grid setup. I am currently install mine in a motorhome where the 50 Amp supply comes through a generator/shore power transfer switch and directly to the inverter/charger. One thing I did notice as a person who specialized in electrical safety during my career is that you should put blanks in your panel to replace the missing breakers as some DIYers may not know the difference and as I found out years ago on a large electrical appliance, kids can get there hands into the strangest places. The other recommendations, always use the back of your hand when you might be dead checking your power. As you mentioned your muscles will close or contract. By use of the back of the hand the contraction of the arm muscles will bring you hand/arm back to your body. Good work on this though.
Hi Jessie, I want to do a slightly different configuration, I'm going going to do a panel swap anyways, so my plan is to feed a new main main panel using a 175A breaker (old 4/0 AL feeder that should not be running into a 200 amp panel), put a couple of circuits in the main panel that I don't need when the power is out (my garage feed, heat strips for the heat pumps which I never use), then take a say 125 amp breaker off the panel and feed the EG4, which in turn feeds the second panel with most of the remaining loads. Not too worried about what happens if I have to send the inverter back for repair, just turn off the 125 breaker, splice the line/load wires temporarily when the unit gets taken off the wall, I'll be in there anyways working. The only issue is the EG4 manual says when running in 'partial house backup' mode, the maximum breaker rating is 70 amps. I'd like it to pass the entire 125 amps, which should work as the unit is rated for 200 amps, so why are they saying to limit the breaker on the 'grid' connection to 70 amps??
I think I missed something, in that I don’t understand what you were trying to accomplish, or what the problem was that you were trying to solve.
Could you not just run your feeder from the meter into the grid input of the EG4? Then the load side into the main breaker on your panel.
At first I thought it was because you were waiting for your interconnect agreement, but now it seems you’ve done this anyway, just with a 70 A tap? I guess it’s not clear to me where the 70 A line is going on the EG4.
I’m struggling with how to add an EG4 because I have a combo meter panel. I think I’m going to have to move the mast and get a new meter socket installed. But it’s a pain because the panel is set into an exterior wall.
You can definitely in most of USA turn that breaker box horizontally. And yes, running the EG4 in full time pass through functioning as a UPS is how I am running it for that last 2 months. The only down side is the EG4 has some overhead of course ( haven’t had time to perform an exact) and I have not found any factory information on the life cycle expectancy over the long haul. Great video as always.
Doing a schnieder 2 inverter d/c coupled now. Signature Solar has been great to deal with, I am newbie and not licensed all very knowledgeable,helpful and responsive. Good video 😊
I recommend to add a delay when the grid comes back on, sometimes they can do some maintenance outside on the grid and you can switch back and forth, also this can hurt some appliances that have a compressor. Good luck
I am thinking about installing this EG4 system, so this is great for me. Thank you very much for these videos Jesse!
Above my brain capacity, but I like watching and learning. ❤❤❤❤
Hi Jesse,
Would you please consider a rewire of your topology from a 70amp feed to a 100amp breaker with #2awg and reposition the box horizontally to eliminate the seal-tight piano string crap? Then by default, use the generator safety slide as a "Global Wrap" Maintenance Bypass. This becomes useful when servicing the EG4 or in the event of a catastrophic failure of the EG4. And add a TVSS to your main panel for the transfer spikes when the utility fails. All just my opinion because I know the way you have it now is going to bug you. Why do I know it's going to bug you is because anyone that actually uses a real torque wrench in a panel is a honorable OCD man. Also remember the limitations on the array current keep that in mind when you are thinking out loud with all the possibilities. Keep up the good work. Best regards, Patrick
In the Navy we had Line Sensing ABT electro-mechanical interlocks. I believe it's legal to turn a feeder breaker sideways as long as there's permanent labels with "ON" / "OFF" in the upright position on the sideways panel and the watertight integrity isn't compromised.
Your system is very expensive and sophisticated. Have you taken any steps to protect it from surges/lightning?
American wiring codes always amaze me. In Australia we have much tougher regulations, but we also have a single phase voltage of 240ac and three phase voltage of 415ac coming into out panels. Anything to do with mains supply, or power export requires an electrical inspector, and a whole heap of paperwork and applications on line. Any sort of export is called “Embedded Generation” and requires an agreement, aproval and an inspection!
Great video! I would love to see a schematic for this install.
You can have your 70 amp disconnect box horizontal, since the breaker would be oriented just like a typical breaker panel. You can't flip the 70 amp disconnect 180 degrees like you can a main panel (not that you would want to anyway) because then "off" would be "up" and "on" would be "down" which is confusing at a glance. Even with the breaker labeled ON and OFF you can't have it operate upside down.
I hope you are writing all this info so in the future you know what you engineered when I worked we used a log book to keep track of what we did
This is great! I’d love to see diagrams and a book! Thank you for sharing!!
So awesome what you do! I remember when you brought the electric into the foundation.
Beautiful solution. Where I live they require bond bushings on the nipples with unfused conductors passing through. Great video!!!
I’ve been looking at the 18KPV and I like what you’re doing here. I’ve got 15 kW of existing grid tied solar running on Enphase micro inverters. My utility only allows self-power if you’ve got batteries so currently when the grid goes down my solar goes down with it (I’ve got a production meter that goes straight to the grid). It sounds like you’re saying there’s a possibility that the Gen input on the 18KPV might be able to handle the full 15 kW of AC Coupled solar. If that’s so then this is really exciting. I’ve got 200 amp main service on aluminum lines just like you do. I’ve got some thinking to do now for sure. Thanks for the video!
Actually an engineer at EG4 told me that the 18kpv can handle up to 19kw of ac coupling on top of 19kw of dc pv. So 38kw altogether. They will coming out with an update so you can actually ac couple through the load port as well for more ac coupling. The 18kpv really does have a lot of neat features
I am going this route. I have 4.5kw of solar on a solar edge inverter. All I have to do is route the ac to the generator. There are 4 breakers where it attached to the current main panel. A 15-20-20-15 quad throw. I am thinking the larger 20s are the tie and the smaller 15amp breakers are the grid power detect legs. I will leave the two 15s in place as the solar edge should not go down if out is grid tied or not. The 18kpv would send the voltage or the grid would send the voltage.
I used feeder taps as well when wiring that inverter but I installed those in a 200amp transfer switch because there was so much more room
As a fellow master electrician I love this. I have been researching solar and trying to figure out what inverter I want to get started with. I think im going to get the eg4 6000xp and set it up the same way you have with the 18k. Love it.
the 6000xp seems to be a nice inverter. I might order 2 of them for my solar trailer I am currently building
@@jmuller86 I was thinking this too, but I have net metering with a solar system already and the 18kPV is the only one that will let me control the sell back. I am limited to 4500 kWh sell back. My current inverter is set to 4000 kWh I guess so it does not hit the limit. I purchased the home with the current solar panels installed, and will move them over to the 18kPV
@@MrOakgoat yea you can also do ac coupling with the grid tied inverter to the 18 but then you wont have solar charging when the grid goes down
@jmuller86 what inverter or worrying diagram should be used to get the benefits of net metering and using solar to charge batteries when the grid is down? I am confused because I understood this to be able to do both? I await your answer so I don't purchase the wrong thing.
@@jmuller86not my understanding. The 18 allows using the DC solar and ac generator from another inverted solar array however you need it.
If you schedule your charging from the grid you can normally charge at a lower rate if you schedule charging for early morning hours. You may not have time of use in your neighborhood but its what all the net metered customers here in California have.
Yes that is a good use of this inverter and batteries. I dont have peak rates in my area but you never know when they could switch to it
I really did not want to do a critical loads panel. It seems like a lot of needless work. Your tap that takes grid to the disconnect breaker and then to the inverter grid connection (using a generator interlock on the main panel) is exactly what I was thinking. I just did not know if it would pass code. Since you are doing it, I assume it does. I am probably going to use two inverters and this same setup will work fine. I will use a combiner breaker box to bring the two inverter leads back to the main panel so will just need two disconnect/combiner boxes with enough spaces for the breakers. Thanks!
AND STILL. The most talented guy on TH-cam.
There’s a plumbing clean out not even 6” away from the inverter. Wow.
But this is still a great video, I’ve always wondered if a setup like this without a transfer switch could work. Thanks for confirming.
Realistically these inverters, and victrons inverters, probably any inverters that have grid input could be used this way.
These inverters can be put outside so having a plumbing pipe next to it wont be an issue
I was ready to copy your old design, but this is a great improvement. To clarify: there is not a 70amp limitation as you mention using 100amp or 125amp breakers? I know double pole 150’s were once available for my panel but have been discontinued. 125amp breakers are available as I’m using one on a sub panel.
I do not know how it is in the USA, but in EU we are not allowed to change the cable diameter on a simple block, only via fuse (breaker). So the same "AWG" has to be the out as the in feed.
you can leave the main breaker off… the way you wired it now. that’s was my comment on your first video.
one plus to how you have it wired is, if the EG4 fails, you can pass your power directly to the load panel, and remove the EG4 to get it repaired… all without a 200A transfer switch (they are also pricey, as you pointed out)
Yeah I'd leave the main off now and let all the power go through the EG4 and he has completely automated backup. Only need the main if the EV4 fails or you need to run a larger than 70amp load.
The 6'7 rule is measured to the 'handle' in its highest position
That totally makes sense. I can't wait to see this solar system take shape!!
I did that hold touch the hot lead while it was still hot but I did not touch ground and my friend had one of those voltage sisters and he put it to my other hand and it blinked and beep. You said you're crazy. I told him as long as you don't touch ground you will never get electrocuted.
Great information for people who have solar 👍 Thanks for sharing!! 😊
I would double check that you have the setting to back feed solar to grid is off without an automatic transfer switch or interlock. My area fines you if the meter senses power when the service is off.
You are the best for sharing this I have been wanting to install this but hesitant because of the knowledge to wire thk u for sharing!!!
Always hard to say what an inspector in another area will allow or not. Then there is also the personal prerogative not governed by NEC which can be quite arbitrary. Having said that I mounted my Square D (not Homeline) 200 amp panel horizontally in my shop and passed inspection without a word about it. Seems I had read Square D specs which also allowed it. As I recall NEC 2023 specifies it as long as the switch is labeled and the manufacturer approves it for vertical or horizontal it meets code.
Here in Ont. Canada you can mount any panel side ways. But I don't think. I'd have to check in this kind of set up. You can't split your main feed. Would have to be feed from a bracker in main or sub panel. So going by that. This would be a no go. Just like 200amp must be feed by a 250mcm alumunum. In 1997 when I installed my 200amp I could use 4/0 UMD90 ALUMUNUM but both are at a max of 230' over that have to go to 700 due to votage drop.
That's a problem with manual transfer switches a lot of people have, that you can't tell when the power has come back on.
So if you had your solar panels feeding your house during the day, would the grid going down even be noticeable? Would your solar arrayjust keep on trucking while the grid was down during the daylight? Great Video by the way!!!
yes, I wouldnt even know about it
Great info but I would look in to putting a GFI breaker for lighting to save your inverter just saying. Keep up the cool vid's.
Very cool setup! You have a very similar setup to what I'm looking at doing. Main 200a outside, with an indoor sub panel. I want to add an EG4 with several batteries. Using an interlock kit inside is a great way to avoid a massive interlock box. For me using the EG4 passthrough mode would be better to prevent the limit of the always on inverter but still have the just about instant switch on power loss. What's your est run time with your two packs and no solar?
I remember reading that you don't really need antioxidant anymore on al cables but it's a belt and suspenders if you do. what's your opinion on it?
I believe you are the exact guy I need to ask this question to. I have just recently bought 2 inverters and 4 lifepo4 batteries to be off grid during peak hours and my inverters have an automatic transfer switch built in. I have a 200amp main panel in the house and a 125a sub panel in the garage. I plan on installing my equipment in the garage but I want to be able to use the auto transfer function and program to use battery backup at certain times. How can I safely make this work from the garage automatically? Do I need to run tapped lines from the house?
jesse i been watching your videos forever , can we hear you talk about like your first job and basically how you got to where you are today please
Ok I will try to start planning for a video. Maybe titled ...where I came from , or how I got to where I am. It is an interesting story
Wow, finally, a Jesse Muller video that won't take me three days to watch!
😂😂😂
I'm considering getting a similar system for myself. Question here is: If you keep your main (200-amp) breaker off and primarily use the load side, that essentially creates an off-grid setup. In that case, why not just get two EG4 6000XP units? I guess just can't sell back to the grid, but It would save me over $2,000 compared to an 18k. with the money saved, just get a nice transfer switch.
Yea . In my case I want to be able to sell back to the grid soon. But if you have no intention of doing that then the 6000xp setup is nice
jesse is a pretty smart guy builds his own house and wires it all up like i want to see him do a visor talking about his upbringing and how he got all is knowledge would be so cool to learn more about this guy
Looks good. Wondering how much room you have in the right side of your main panel. Could you run your new lines from the 70A disconnect back down through the same nipple or punch out another knockout in both boxes and then drop the lines down the right side of your main panel and then over to your battery trough? That would eliminate the diagonal liquidtite on the wall.
Thanks. Jesse, pardon my French, but I love this SH*T!
So your idea is similar to what I need to do at our farm. We have a 200amp meter that is split 3 ways to a house and shop and barn. Normal load is around 4kw with lights on in the building. I was looking into doing 3 6000xp in parallel but the 18000kv might work better. I have 8.4kw of panels, just trying to figure out what inverter to go to.
Ideally I would like to pass the utility power through the inverters at all times so its essentially seamless. I'm in ND and we have terrible net metering policies so have no interest in that and just get some batteries for storage.
the 18kpv is nice but you are paying dearly to be able to export. you can get 2 6000xps for a lot less money and have the same output and I think a little more input on the pv side. if you are not exporting then I would hook 2 or 3 of the 6000xp up
i don't see the CT installed with this alternating wiring Jesse or did I miss it? thank you for the video btw.
I don't know how much of a concern this is but maybe with your electrician background you can provide some insight. I have a separate energy monitor hooked up to my panel and what I noticed is it exports equally on L1 and L2 when off-setting grid usage with the "zero export" feature enabled. For example, if I'm using 400w on L1 and 200w on L2, the 18k will supply 300w on L1 and 300w on L2. The question/concern is, will a smart meter notice and report this back to the electric company? In this scenario, I'm still using 100w on L1 but "selling back" 100w on L2 creating the net zero at the meter. I've posed this question to eg4 support and quickly stopped getting any help once they figured out what my concern was, it'd be great if you could pose question this to your contact over there or maybe you have better knowledge of how the smart meters work to know if this is a true cause for concern or not. Thanks for the videos! I already have my system installed but it was nice to get confirmation that I didn't miss anything while watching your install.
I think I just saw your post in the ss eg4 forum on fb. Are you seeing any grid sell on the eg4 app? Do you have any other loads on the way to the meter from your 18k? Mine always has a few kw so the meter would never see any excess. I heard that you might have a few watts of feedback when a big load suddenly turns off, like motor or compressor or even maybe some heating elements. I am curious about this
@@jmuller86 app shows zero expert which is technically accurate overall but if the power company is monitoring L1 and L2 usage independently, I'd be expecting a nastygram from them. I'm running the load side of the 18k into a sub panel (CTs are in the 18k's cabinet on the grid input so it's only seeing the loads on that sub panel) but that's also where my heaviest loads are. Even with other unmonitored loads running in my main panel I still show L2 (my lesser used leg) exporting in my energy monitor during the best solar hours and I'm expecting that to only get worse as we get into the better time of year for solar. I've tried moving more loads to L2 to try and balance but I've moved as much as I can. For the time being I've switched to off-grid mode but that's not ideal long term
probably a stupid question but when you lose power aren't you back feeding to your grid when you are on back up power the way you have it at the end
no, that grid connection shuts off instantly when it doesnt detect incoming grid power. That is how any grid tied inverter works as well
I was in the same place as Ohio-Ken ,thanks for that explanation .
It appeared to be an endless albeit less amperage continuous loop.
Could the software/switch of the grid detection ,fail/ short and back-feed into the grid.
Is it a coil that needs to be excited (like a rectifier ) on an alternator?
The failure of that mechanism could result in a very serious lawsuit.
Am simply trying to understand the built-in failsafe.
@@2chipped I am not sure exactly how it works, but it goes through some pretty serious tests to be approved for it. And all grid tied inverters work the same way, so every solar installation you see on somebodys house or property is using the same method to stop outgoing power if it does not detect incoming power
@@jmuller86 Thanks for the info enjoy your videos Hope you and your family are doing well. Thanks again.
It's probably a constant duty cycle contactor that fails open, that is it needs power to tie into the grid. I suppose there are edge cases where it could fail and back feed the grid but it probably also has other failsafes.
Jesse, thank you for this video. Do you have a wiring diagrame from EG4 (or that you've created) that describes this feed tap approach, or has EG4 support created one that you know of?
Hey Jesse, just stumbled across your channel, love the vid!. I am specing out a system with the 18Kpv unit from EG4, and was not looking forward to running wire to pass the 200 service thru the inverter. Having the interlock bracket that prevents the main breaker from being on is super smart, and I am curious if you could just have two 70A breakers side by side on the panel with the interlock between them. One breaker is grid connection from inverter that's normally on, one side is load (normally off), making it so the loop cannot happen. If the grid goes down, inverter does rapid shutdown, then I can go flip mains breaker and switch to the load breaker to run off grid. Do you think that would pass for code? It'd simplify my wiring job quite a bit. Thanks!
The best thing you can do is ask your local electrical inspector. Most of them have no clue how these work, but if you can show them a one line diagram...it would help them understand
You should of had the service come into a 8x8 trough with end caps, then you mount the house panel on that and all your splices would be in the trough and down the trough you would be able to mount and power everything. I work and live in NYC and to code you can not slice in a service panel this is why you use a trough makes it neat and easy and safe. 38 yrs doing this stuff.
there is no code that says that you cant tap inside of a panel. There have been a few people who have said that but not one has come up with the actual NEC reference.
@@jmuller86The code is you can not use a service panel as a raceway, the taps are considered a splice that are to be done in a raceway --pull box- trough. This is NYC code maybe you have national code by you.
@@wirenut003 you still have not referenced an actual code with an actual number. This is also not NYC, you can keep that crap down there, it has no relevance up here, and the rest of the world. But I also highly doubt that it is an actual code down there, I think you just havent done enough homework. This has been done in millions of homes all over the U.S.
@@jmuller86 Jesse 38 years Local # 3 international brotherhood of electrical workers, certified lineman. so yeah I don't know crap about it. So keep that mess of a room up in your neck of the woods because it would not pass here.
@@wirenut003 you can be wrong for 38 years. It happens all the time. Its called learning. The fact that you are union explains why you dont actually know. You do one thing over and over again, doesnt mean you know anything more than that. Being a linesman doesnt mean you install solar. You still have not recited the actual code. If you could not tap a feeder, inside the panel..then there would not be many solar installations. What if the conduit enters the panel from behind the wall? Exactly....what you are saying doesnt hold water. Show me the code reference
if you wanted to you could run 100 amp grid right into your inverter from the main panel and then go to a 100 amp panel for all your circuits. if you ever need more than 100 amps you run a 2nd 100 amp system and double your solar panels and batteries.
God blessed you in a mighty way by not letting you injure your hand. I pray you will not make that mistake ever again.
What i would have done differently is conecting the incoming grid power to the top side of the breaker, thats what i have been taught. It doesnt make a difference for the function ofcourse its just good practice imho.
Would there be any issue with doing this on the exterior main panel of a house? I don't have a subpanel and my main panel is a combo combining the meter/breakers. I figure I can tap in above the 200amp main panel breaker and wire up an external 100amp disconnect/circuit breaker but otherwise just follow your same instructions. I checked and it does have wires as opposed to bus bars. Or is this only allowed because it's a subpanel?
I only have a 125amp service so I think I am buying the same inverter and battery so I think I can just get by with the interlock breaker. Are you anywhere near San Antonio as I am a disabled vet trying to hook this all up and could use some help. Thanks for the video.
I am in upstate Ny sorry, otherwise I would
The new breaker is your solar back feed. Is that what you said? Well, if that breaker is on and the grid go down, will your inverter stop sending power to them, or do you have to turn a new breaker off to kill the grid backfeed, or is that a relay switch wish stops feeding the grid with no power is present it look like a regular 70 amp breaker. Okay Jessie
that grid connection will instantly shut off when the grid goes down. it can only be energized when the grid is on
I used to work for an electrician, where I live sometimes power goes out I got a generator I'm tempted to get solar and battery backup it's not cheap just had some trees removed that hit me hard 4500
Great video! I'm doing the same thing, but with a sub panel and critical loads. I like how you tackled this and I don't see any code infractions. I do believe you found the cheapest all in one solution. But, if people are having bigger loads with non-critical loads, your little sub panel could be a bigger subpanel. But, I think you found the best solution for yourself.
I personally have three Electric ranges, three fridges, one deep, freeze, one main air conditioner, six window, air conditioners, a 120 amp, electric furnace, a water pump, and Internet and TV I would like to keep on. By my calculation, I will need almost double what you have.
I thank you very much for the video as this has given me some good insight. I am going to go with a critical loads sub panel. But I do like your work and expertise! Thank you for posting this video.
you could do the same thing but with 100 amp backfeed breaker for the interlock. you could just shut off whatever you dont want or cant power. I did this mainly because I dont have the room for a giant transfer switch and I dont want a critical loads panel, I want the option of powering anything I need. it sounds like you might need two of the 18kpvs though. in that case you would have 100 amps
Mounting the breaker sideways is not issue, this may actually fix a code violation you currently have which is the handle of the breaker can not be over 6'7" which it looks like it is pretty high in the video.
Breaker is 6'6 right now
What you’ve done is what I want to do, except I’m not even a junior electrician. Where are you at so I can hire you?
Morning coffees on!! Here we go!!Cheers!;-)!!
Nice thanks for a great video cause I’m already planning the same way for my grid connection! 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽
Love your channel and videos very informative learned a lot .
Hi Jesse:
I have an unusual situation and I’m looking for a solution. I have two panels in different parts of the house, one in the garage, one in the basement. There is a service disconnect in the garage next to the panel in the garage. That service disconnect shut off power to the basement panel if needed. I would like to combine , both the service disconnect and the panel next to it in order to provide solar to the whole house. Am I wrong and thinking that I can put a box after the box combining the two panels and then running your alternate scenario? I have pictures if you would like to see what I’m talking about. thanks.
Hi Jesse
Thanks so much for the video,i plan to do it on my system, my situation is my inverter is EU model, 12kw, out put 240v by L-N-PE ports, please let me know if it's possible to connect to 70a breaker like you to feed to panel by use PE as L2 ?
I’m still learning here, but wouldn’t a two pole 50A breaker be all you need for the grid input? The unit can “only” output 12KW anyway, or is that 70A breaker there for the temporary spiked output?
EDIT
Oh, if you have the two pole 100 amp breaker, you can do a full 200 amp bypass with the inverter, and just leave the breaker in the main panel off.
Also, you need account for the big amount of charging through the grid port. It will charge at like 8000 watts or more
So is this system only for backup? Or are you feeding back to the utility? About to set up my 18KPV but the transfer switch is such a PITA
I have just been offsetting my loads in the house for now but I just got an approval for interconnection to my utility so I will be doing that soon. Right now I just have some temporary panels and I have it set to zero export
Good job with your house man
Nice job 👍.
House for me with stairs useless for me. Like stairs to the bedroom etc.
U get hurt, age comes sooner than later....
I'll take a bungalow anytime.
So I am wanting to do the same exact setup. I have everything at my house except for the extra 70amp breaker box. I have a 60amp EV charger that will use almost all of my inverter output.
So I am wondering if I can just get a 4 way Polaris and run a 2nd standalone breaker with a 60amp breaker that way the EV charger uses grid only?
Great job Jesse !
The neutral from service still connected to the main panel creates a loop doesnt it? If grid power went down wouldnt the neutral from service still see power from load of the inverter?
Yeah, another commenter (@maths9085) mentioned the neutral loop and called out two specific code violations with this setup.
Hi Jesse:
I am working with Electrician on finally hooking up my solar array to my 18 K inverters. I have two panels, one has a service disconnect going to the sub panel in my basement while the other panel is direct off of my meter. Both of these are in my garage. I explained to my electrician your video which he looked at, the 32 minute video, and he explained that he could not run a tap from the disconnect to a 100 amp box which would then feed the grid in one of the inverters. I asked him if there was a code associated with this and he said yes. He has yet to show it to me. I believe he is just unwilling to perform this exercise. Can you please confirm?
Thank you,
Why did you add the shut off switch for your grid to inverter? Why not make it 100amp?
Hey Jesse
I am doing the same exact set up. I am wondering since my space is limited in my main breaker box.
I am wanting to do a 2 port Polaris. I will pass main power thru Polaris to my 200amp main breaker then run 2/0 cable back out to a 12x12 distribution box. Then Polaris 3 way there. I will run 4 gauge thhn out to 60 amp breaker box for my EV charger & 2 gauge thhn out to 100amp breaker box going to grid in my 18kpv.
Go you see any issues with that?
I would like to see an audible alert to let you know when the grid power is back on and not just rely on a small light on the inverter. Nothing really loud just a simple interrupted beep to get your attention.
Jesse there's a couple of YT channels who've bought at action used U.S. Army field diesel generator boxes for the worst senario. Which got me thinking to find one myself.
yea a diesel generator is a really good idea. you can store diesel forever and you can use homemade biodiesel too.
Calm down Waldo 😂
@@jeepindave5464 Right Waldo's World is one of the YT channels.
Where’s waldo 😂