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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ต.ค. 2018
- There is particular turning tool that has fascinated me for several years, but is too expensive for a cheapskate like me to buy. But this type of tool isn't that complicated, and can be made without too much in materials or tools (or skill). So I'm building this tool. And although I make a number of mistakes along the way, the tool ends up being usable...I just can't decide if it's better than other tools.
If you'd like to skip the tool-making and just see the tool in use, skip ahead to time 17.24.
The music during the close of the video, "Happy Little Elves" by Audionautix, is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license (creativecommons.org/licenses/...)
Artist: audionautix.com/ - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
Thanks for the video and your time to explain the process of making your own carbide wood turning tools.
Here is what I did that may better accomplish what you were wanting to do for the small pocket at the tip of the tool for the carbide cutter.
Like you, I started by grinding the 45 degree angle on the top part of the bar stock. From there I determined the location of the cutter on the angle and then drilled my hole for the cutter set screw. The hole was drilled perpendicular to the 45 degree angle. Then I used a larger drill bit (33/64) that was slightly larger than the carbide cutter diameter and drilled down a depth equal to the thickness of the cutter. After that I took my angle grinder to remove metal from the top of the bar around the front of the hole drilled and leaving a pocket at the rear of the hole for the cutter to fit in. After that I tapped the hole for the set screw. After that, I ground the bottom side of the tool to a shape similar to the Clewes tool. The end product looks pretty close to the Clewes tool... not exact, but close. The trick is in the sequence on how things are done while making this tool.
I used CA glue on the bottom of the cutter and some thread lock on the screw. To loosen, a cigarette lighter or butane lighter can be used to lightly heat the bottom side of the bar.
Thanks for the information, Glasscutr. That does sound like it would work really well.
Nice work Rick. You've inspired to try making one myself. Thank you!!!
I like to hear about your experience with it when you're done. Thanks for watching, Red.
@@RickTurnsWoodturning ... will do. I'm gonna do a short video when I'm finished with it.
I love your videos. I hope you never die! 😂👍👍
I’m planning on living forever...so far, so good!
Rick, your videos always bring a smile or a chuckle. I bought one of the smaller Hunter tools at Turning Southern Style, the one with the 3/16" cutter like the cutter on my Jamieson Hollowing rig. I bought it because of the many comments I have seen over the years about great a finish cut you can get on the inside of a box. It was not cheap. I am still playing with it to see if it works for me and is an improvment over my current tools and techniques. There is a huge differerence in these cupped nano carbide cutters that Clewes and Mike Hunter use and the ones CPT Eddie or EWT sell. They slice instead of scrape. It looks like your replacement cutter was one of the cheaper flat carbide cutters. I watched an interesting demo by Mark Palma at TSS where he went into a lot of detail explaining and demonstrating the differences in various carbide tools. Making tools can be fun as your video shows. But I could not replicate the fit and finish of the Hunter tool I bought. And as you showed, if you don't get it right, it may not work well. Even after several trys. Looks like you may have an opportunity for a follow up video explaining the difference in use and results between the nano carbide cup cutters which essentially are designed to ride a bevel similar to a gouge and the carbide scrapers that are generally recommended to use flat.
The cutter I’m using is described as a shear cupped cutter that is a replacement for the cutter on the Hunter #4 tool. It is 12mm inside of the 8mm which fits the Hunter Osprey. Maybe the size of the cutter makes a difference. It is a nanocarbide cutter and it is a lipped cutter rather than a flat top cutter. On the first cuts I made, before the recess was very deep, I was getting beautiful cuts, no grain tearing at all. As I got deeper, the quality of the cut became rougher. I think it’s me at this point, not the tool. I’m going to keep playing with it.
I reckon you did a great job with the tool (especially the handle!!!!). Nice bowl as well, I've always liked the look of poplar.
Thank you, Conrad.
need a tool make a tool! love it, I think from my experience having the carbide at 45 degree will gives much better result, thanks for sharing Rick good job!
Thanks for the suggestion, Afshin. A couple of months ago, I made a shear scraping tool with a HSS bit set at 45 degrees. Here's a link to that video: bit.ly/2C5Hjpw
My thoughts exactly.
Hello Rick, I have the jimmy Clewe’s minimate tool and find it very effective for hollowing small projects. It takes some practice to control well but a light cut gives a very nice finish
Thanks for the info, Glyn. As I said in the video, I've been very curious about this type of tool.
Great tool, good video, and all the replies were thoughtful and informative. Pretty much everything that can be said has been said so pardon me for being repetitive. For a long time I was sort of a Hunter Tool purist, thinking I should cut rather than scrape. But always had tool control problems. So I built some EWT type tools, far more control and smoother cut. But still does not produce the surface that a sharp gouge will, for me anyway. So my compromise for bowls: I do the roughing with carbide, often with EWT style cutters, then go in with the gouge for finish cuts, final shaping, shear scraping and so on. Using the carbide for roughing saves me from dulling and resharpening the expensive gouge steel away for roughing that won't be seen anyway. I am just too cheap to grind away expensive HSS if I don't need to.
Hollow forms, the opposite applies sometimes. Rough hollow with a John Jordan 3/16 by 3/16 tool then smooth it out with an EWT round tool sometimes, other times with HSS cutters that are wider.
Other than my dedicated carbide shear scraper, I don't use carbide bit tools much at all. I've made four or five of them, using various bits, and haven't found them to be much of an advantage. But I really like the shear scraper tool I made! Thanks for watching and for your comments, John. It's interesting to hear how other woodturners work.
I have made three carbide lathe tools out of a Harbor Freight 4 piece pry bars set. Round, radiused square, and pointed bits. I think mine can remove material fast with tear out if you force the tool and you can get a fairly good cut if you end up with light cuts. To make the carbide bits give you the best possible finish, you have to twist them at a 30-40 degree angle so you are slicing across the wood instead of acting like a scrapper. I find they work better than any other tool on acrylics.
I think you're right about the angle of the cutter. A couple of months ago, I made a shear scraping tool with a HSS bit set at 45 degrees and it works great. Here's a link to that video: bit.ly/2C5Hjpw
Thanks for watching, fa18mhr.
Rick, you produced a great video. I have a COMPLETE SET of EWTs. With the round cutter I have found that I get the best finish cut by rotating the cutter in the direction of cut just like a fluted cutter!
Yes, I think the shearing action improves the cut, just as it does with a scraper. Thanks for watching l John.
Good Idea!!
Thank you, Carlos.
I made the same tool a while back using the same tools as you. However, before grinding the pocket for the cutter bit, I drilled two holes. First I used a 13 mm drill bit to drill down perpendicular to the pocket cut to the dame depth of the thickness of the cutter. Using the larger hole center, I drilled the hole for the screw all the way through the steel and then tapped with a screw. After that I used the angle grinder and Dremel with a grinding bit to take down the metal for the cutter pocket. The 13 mm hold drilled made a nice pocket for the steel bar on the back side of the cutter. It looks professionally done. In short and recapping things, grind the basic profile of the bar, but don't grind the pocket cut at first like you did. Instead, set the bar up with the angled cut parallel to the floor in drill press, then drill the 13 mm hole, then the hole for the screw. Then grind away the metal for the pocket for the cutter towards the front of the bar leaving a pocket at the back. Then tap for the screw. Hope this makes some sense.
That sounds great. I thought about doing something like that, but I thought it was beyond my limited metal-working capabilities. How’s your tool work for you? After using mine for some time, I’ve given up on it for anything more than really rough hollowing.
RickTurns
My experience sounds identical to yours. I think a 12mm carbide cutter is set at too steep of an angle. I may reset at about a 10-15 degree angle and see if there is an improvement. But, before I do this I may buy a negative rake cutter and see how that improves things. I used a regular round cutter and it seems way too aggressive in some instances. Or as the old saying goes, maybe I wasn’t holding my mouth correctly.
On another note: a few years ago I saw a fellow in Casas Grande, Mexico turning wood and all he used were pieces of square and round steel rod ground into different shapes for his tools. He turned beautiful pieces with surfaces as smooth as glass. He didn’t have the carbide tools or the high speed steel tools we have become so dependent upon. His lathe was homemade out of pipe and small I-beam steel with a .75 -1 Hp electric motor with different pulleys. He sharpened his tools with a file and round wet stone on a bicycle frame turned by hand.
I learned through this man tools are only part of the equation and God given talent is the rest. I have yet to acquire the God given talent to use the expensive tools that I have in my possession. I struggle making a tool that will make life easier turning wood, yet the man in Mexico is only struggling to make ends meet while making beautiful wood turnings out of any type wood he can gather with very primitive tools.
I've noticed that the Hercules tool has a 45 degree angle ground on the shaft for shear cutting
I’ve seen that tool for sale. It looks interesting. Thanks for the info.
Cool!
Thank you, cs.
Gave the video a thumbs up and enjoyed it as well
Thank you, Russell.
Very interesting, I like it.
Thank you, Tarth.
That is, thank you, Tarry. Typo in my previous reply!
I think carbides are good in certain situations. I have made several carbide tools, but still prefer traditional gouges. Nice job.
I have made four carbide tools so far, but I still generally use gouges. I keep hoping for a breakthrough!
I watch this again. I have but one carbide tool, (by H&S Tools), they make no pretense about what it is, a roughing tool. I use it quite often, as you said for hollowing. I have had the same results as you, a lot of tear out. I've found it seems to work best either straight in, (level with the floor), or with the tip slightly turned downward. I still finish the inside with either a bowl gouge or negative rake scraper.
That seems to be the way it's going for me too. I've made four carbide tools now. They work okay, but aren't really superior to standard woodturning tools. I keep hoping for a breakthrough! Thanks for watching, Tarry.
You need a milling machine!! I made the AZ Carbide " little hogger" straight and curved and have not put them on my boring bar yet. Good video to show how to save some money by making you own carbide tipped hollower . When I tap in the drill press, I power tap to get it started square to the hole and I use a foot pedal to "bump" it in. It work great. I finish with a T wrench.
I'd love to have a milling machine except that A) I have no idea how to use one, and B) they're expensive! Sounds like you're way ahead of me in metal work. Thanks for watching, Jim.
Hi have you tried turning the cutter anti clockwise about 45 degree so its not so aggressive.
For this tool, no. I wanted to see how the commercial tools like this worked. However, a couple of months ago I made a 45 degree shear scraper with a HSS bit on it. Here's a link to that video: bit.ly/2C5Hjpw Thanks for the suggestion, Mark.
I have both the Hunter Osprey and Clewes First Mate they both work great. I think what is critical is the angle of the cutter as it is attached to the bar and that is what makes it a cutter not a scraper. The Clewes tool actually only allows for a small portion of the cutter to touch the wood so to eliminate catches. I have tried hard to get it to catch and it really will not. The Osprey is on a smaller bar stock and is more sensitive to dragging that has led to catching.
Yes, I’m sure you’re right about the angle. I’d like to try the First Mate, but it’s kind of pricey. Thanks for watching, Rod.
good video, I don't think you would need to rotate the carbide for a long time, assuming that it comes sharp. I have some little rounds that don't seem to be sharp, but the larger ones are awesome, cut for a long long time. I've got a piece of wood on the lathe that I plan to hollow....I've not done much of that.
How do you keep your glasses from fogging? That's an RZ mask??
It is an RZ mask, Mick. It is great...I have an Airshield Pro, but I can’t use it because the noise gets picked up on the video. I haven’t have a problem with my glasses fogging while I’m wearing the RZ mask. With the cheap paper masks, it’s a problem though.
Nice job Rick. Is there any chance that the nut is contacting the wood? Maybe you could use a nutsert to adapt the 10-32 to an 8-32. I have made 6 carbide tools but use the traditional tools for most work.
A nutsert? This is the first I’ve heard of that. I’m going to check it out. Thanks for the suggestion, Dan.
I make all my carbide tools fun and cheap !
I enjoy making them also. Thanks for watching, Joe,
When I got my first lathe I made a bunch of carbide tools, this was entirely a cost consideration because they were very cheap to make. I was already very familiar with traditional tools but 5 different carbide tools cost me slightly less than 1 traditional one. Now that I have all of the traditional chisels I need I find the carbide seldom gets used. Sure they have their place in certain situations but i find them to be inferior in most ways to traditional style chisels.
In general, I agree with you. Carbide-tipped tools seem to leave a rougher surface than a gouge or skew. I was hoping this one would be different (based on the videos by Jimmy Clewes about his Mate #1 and Mate #2 tools). Thanks for watching, Rocket.
Thanks for making your videos, I always enjoy the projects and your sense of humour!!
Needs a little more experimentation and fettling,but im sure you will create a tool to do what you want it to ! Keep grinding Rick!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, Alan.
Doesn't seem to be as much of an angle on the bit as the mega mate or the hunter tools but looks like as you angled your cuts you got a similar approach to the wood. I have found the square carbide tools take off the wood the fastest and then the rounds help to smooth the surface of the bowl and the bowl gouge gets it smooth enough for final sanding. Not sure I want to go to the trouble of these angled carbide tools as you can usually get a similar approach by just varying the height of your tool rest. But I do need to get or make a curved tool rest for my bowl making! Nice video but I would bet this tool is going to go on the wall!
I haven't had much luck with the round carbide cutters (before this tool). I made one several years back and tried using it for finishing cuts and just couldn't get a smooth surface with it. I drew a 20 degree angle on the bar as a guide for grinding, but it does look like more than that. The Hunter tools seem to be a lot more than 20 degrees, and the Jimmy Clewes tools look like more than the 22 degrees that the tool description says. Thanks for watching, Terry.
Rick, by any chance was the round carbide tool on a round bar stock? I have found the square stock to be far superior to the round for the carbide cutters. I have one of the rounded square with radius cutters on a round bar and it is almost impossible to keep cutting smooth and steady. I am going to cut a flat on it to see if this helps.
Hai salam.dari indonesia.trimakasih
Thanks for watching!
Hi Rick, Easy Wood Tools sell replacement cutters, for their three types of tools. They come with a 10 32 screw.
Thanks, Bryan. The EWT cutters are all flat carbide cutters, which pretty much limits them to scraping, unless they’re held at an angle so they take a shear cut. I was hoping the lipped (or cupped) cutters would cut more than scrape. The one I made does cut when held at the correct angle, I think. However, as mounted on the shaft (22 degrees or whatever), it still seems to be more of a scrape...after all, the bevel isn’t rubbing. So I’m not sure if the tool is all it’s advertised to be. Or maybe it’s just my homemade version isn’t too good.
I Make my car bought tools pretty much like you made those . On half inch bar just straight are use Round carbide cutters and a radius squared it does seem to cut better at higher speeds what I would like to know is how to make one to do hollow forms I really have a hard time doing Hollow Farms I may need to build a different to rest I’m sure that would help I get terrible catchers if I was a pretty strong it would probably take my tools away from me scares the daylights out of me I have just started trying to do them Hollow Farms that is if you could help me I would appreciate it I know with your teaching I could learn thank you very much Rick God bless
I’m not very good at hollow forms. I’ve avoided them for a long time. I usually cut through the sidewall. But I’m planning to do more hollow forms on the near future. Thanks for watching, Randy.
Rick Good experiment, May I suggest that you use metal cutting paste or spray oil as will cut smooth and easy second I would check if the screw are Imperial or METRIC, although supplier tell you is made in USA put this days China is making them and normally are Metric, finally I believe 22 degree is close to scrapper which is for dry timber you will find 45 degree is for getting large cuts, lots of info on Y/Tube, maybe try on harder timber spindle cutting then decide for mark II. Good luck. Regards from OZ Jack Marashlian
The 22 degree figure comes from the Jimmy Clewes' Mate #1 and #2 tools. The Hunter tools look more like 45 degrees. Thanks for your suggestions, Jack.
Those dished Carbide Cutters are made to be used on a 45 degree angle or there abouts. Just an FYI
Looking at pictures of the commercial tools, the cutting angle appears to be less than 45 degrees. Only one tool specifically mentioned the angle, and I believe it said 22 degrees. But thanks for the information!
I've made several carbide tools using cutters that I bought from Capt Eddie - whose prices are very reasonable. However, he only has flat-top cutters - the cutter you used appears to be cupped.
This raises the issue of 'rake angle' - I think this is ultimately an issue of the angle that the cutting edge presents to the surface of the wood, and you can achieve a good cut using either style cutter if the edge approaches the wood at the right angle. The designs you were copying all have distinct negative angles. But there is one manufacturer (in the UK) who makes carbide tools using square bars and who grinds the mounting surface such that the tool is not only raked downward, but is also tilted to the left.
By the way - I share your pain about tapping holes. My experience is that if I'm threading a hole for a #10 or #8 screw, it typically takes me about three taps to do the job! Fortunately, even with buying multiple taps, its still less expensive to make my own than to buy a factory-made tool. Also, I find that I don't dare turn the tap wrench more than about 1/3 turn without backing it out to clear the chips.
Thanks for your comments, Louie. I had forgotten that Cap’n Eddie sells carbide bits. When I’m ready for a replacement, I’ll check him out.
One more thing - rather than using a lockwasher, you could put a drop of thick CA on the nut to lock it down. Heating the tool gently will melt the CA to loosen the screw.
Using tap magic fluid will help with the tapping
This is the first time I’ve heard of tap magic fluid. I’m going to look into it right away. Thanks for the tip.
If you have a drill press with a vice once you ground the angle on the steel you can clamp the bar in the vice holding it at the same angle and take a drill bit the size of the carbide bit and drill it out instead of trying to grind you will get a much cleaner looking tool
That’s a great idea. It never occurred to me to do that. Then I could have a nice tight pocket for the cutter. Thanks for the suggestion!
Wow! You made a nice tool AND wore the same shirt seven days, which REALLY impressed me. Good video. I think the main thing I took from it is you're really better off learning to sharpen and use conventional tools.
Yeah, I think that shirt probably needs to be washed now. Thanks for watching, John.
If you go back and watch the video, from 9:55 - 10:05 you will see that the metal you are tapping drops twice in your clamp while you are starting the tap causing you to tap crooked threads
It did drop some, so maybe that was the problem. On the second go around, I had the bar clamped in a machinist’s vise, and it didn’t move at all, and I still had the problem. When I went to a slightly larger drill bit, the tapping went okay. Thanks for the tip, Cur.
I thought you were trying to mount the cutter at the 22 degree angle. Your final product is nearly level. The purpose of the angle is to get a cutting action instead of scraping. At the proper angle, you will greatly reduce your tear out.
No, it really is angled downward, even if it doesn’t look like that in the video. Thanks for watching and commenting.
If you look at "john60lucas" on his channel he shows most all of the Hunter tools and how to properly use them
Thanks for the tip, I’m going to check out his videos right now.
as others have said,, the angle is wrong for a good finish, try turning it on its side and do a shear cut, I am pretty sure the cutter came with a #8 screw, not a #10
I don’t think it came with a screw, but it’s been so long, that I am not sure. I was under the impression that the angle that the cutter is mounted on the tool is supposed to provide a shear cut - that’s why it is a flat bar, so you don’t have to angle it.
The Hunter tool is a $100 unhandled too expensive for me I am going to try and make one Hunter used a 3/8square bar
Thanks for watching, Thomas.
With all the time and money that you spent attempting to save money, my opinion is that purchasing one of these might have been your best path to success. Also, it appears from the video that the actual angle of the cutter is almost flat, not at whatever angle Jimmy or Mike determined is best. Hunter makes Jimmy's tools by the way. And Hunter provides all the cutters to everyone else except Azcarbide, which might be doing the same. I asked Mike what the angle is and he refused to tell me. Simple Tools/Harrison Specialties carries round shaft, flat angle versions of these tools for around a third of the price of Hunter and Clewes. Finally, no one has made a recent video in the last three or four years about these tools. That is a telling sign that the market or at least the current crop of snake oil salesmen has moved on to something newer to take our money with.
My purpose in making this tool wasn’t so much about saving money. It was about making the tool, which I enjoyed doing, and it was also about trying out this type of tool to see if really was as good as advertised. Mine wasn’t - I found it useful for roughing out, but not really any better than a large bowl gouge. I almost never use it now. The cutter was at an angle similar to that of the commercial tools, but I doubt very much it was exactly the same. I still wonder if those tools are really as good as shown in some videos - I doubt it, though. Thanks for watching and commenting, Grumpy.
with any new device you have to ask yourself this, what problem is this the solution to. Is it better than your bowl gouge, definitely not. is it easier to use maybe for a beginner but finish will never be as good and a novice will learn little except the price of abrasives.
Self taught turners are always looking for short cuts and keep buying a bundle of new gadgets instead of learning to make full use of the ones they already have. I'm with the great Denis White in advocating the need for only a half dozen tools for the majority of woodturning needs and keeping the new tool cash for buying more wood to practice on. Practice makes perfect and there is no substitute.
Having said that, I applaud your effort. Just think what you could do with an engineering shop.
Agreed! Proper technique can make an average tool look good, a high priced, do all tool will not develop good turning methods.
More metal-working tools would be nice! I could make mistakes faster. I fall into the category of self-taught woodturner who loves new gadgets. There's always one more tool that might be better or easier. Thanks for watching!
Rick, been there, done that and have a wall covered in tools to prove it.
Your angle is to shallow. You in to increase the grind angle as shown in your picture.
Buy a proper carbide tipped chisels and you may be amazed at the difference
I’ll have to try one sometime - it’s just a lot of money when I’m not sure how well it works. Glad to hear about your experience wit it.
Rick, look at your insert ( bit ) if it has a taper side from top to bottom it’s a positive insert! If it has straight sides it’s a negative insert, which makes tilling down necessary for Clarence. You might want to look at machine trade books for inserts because their ripping everyone off on prices. Just saying. I’ve been a tool maker for 51 years now and we only pay around 5 bucks for that type of insert
It does have a taper from the edge to the back of the bit. I've looked online for a source of carbide bits that are cheaper than what's available on the woodturning supply sites. The carbide and machine tool companies I saw wanted to sell only in boxes of ten, so the individual bits would be inexpensive, but the set of ten was more than I wanted to pay. Thanks for your comments, John.
You killed an entire tree making this😢
Eddie CASTELIN has these cutters CHEAPER !!!!!!!!
I know Captain Eddy sells some of these bits and one or two kits for making your own. I just didn't think to check it out. Thanks for the tip, ronnie.
Interesting video, but a machinist you are not.lol Stick to what you do best, turning. Hope you don't take offense, my comment is all in fun.
I am definitely not a machinist! I wish I had taken shop class back in high school. Thanks for watching, Thomas.
You make a great point. As ORGs (old retired guys), we are of a generation where taking shop classes was an option. Today, I find that I am more willing to take on projects in my home shop because I was exposed to skills in high school shop classes. Not sure that is recognized in modern educational theory.
Likewise, over this past weekend I read an article in my alumni magazine about former Senator Sam Nunn who had to drop out of Georgia Tech and transfer to Emory because Tech had a required class in mechanical drawing. As I have taken up woodturning, I am glad that I had to take that class - not because I do drawings, but because it helped me visualize three-dimensional shapes.
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