Frederick Douglass said of John Brown “ his zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine , mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun... I could speak for the slave, but John Brown could die for him.”
John Brown might've been brutal, but his brutality pales in comparison to that of the institution of slavery. And ultimately, he was right, slavery was only expunged through the bloodshed of the Civil War
Also if you consider bleeding Kansas or the atrocities committed by "Quantrill's Raiders", the defenders of slavery had not a iota more of restraint and were just as brutal for their cause, which was objectively less defendable to be violent over.
@@Ugly_German_Truths Exactly, their violence was pedestrian and everyday, while Brown dared to carry out violence in the name of good. It's not normal.
As much as I hate the edgy fucks who quote the Dark Knight constantly, I think this occasion justifies it: "You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go 'according to plan.' Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds." - Heath Ledger via the Joker. People don't care when the violence is systematic, they can justify that. But when the violence, no matter how justified, is "random" or appears disorganized, it becomes a problem.
I did for a long time although despite agreeing with the Jayhawker cause learning about the women and children getting killed really soured it I mean I don’t hate John brown or think he’s evil but he’s a man and a flawed man like everyone else. He fought for a good cause but was pretty down with some pretty fucked up shit Like don’t get me wrong I love reading about the guy and how he fucked up slavers that shit is based as hell
Amen!!! I don't recognize Brown's using violence against slavers as "ignoble"... especially when it was the only way to end slavery. The slavers were almost literally _begging_ for it! It was, in fact, the only noble way to assault that infernal "institution"...
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave But his soul goes marching on
@@warlordofbritannia He captured Harper's Ferry with his nineteen men so true He frightened old Virginia till she trembled through and through They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew But his soul goes marching on
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down On the grave of old John Brown
Here it is in original polish Przez Oceanu ruchome płaszczyzny Pieśń Ci, jak mewę, posyłam, o! Janie...
Ta lecieć długo będzie do ojczyzny Wolnych - bo wątpi już: czy ją zastanie?... - Czy też, jak promień Twej zacnej siwizny, Biała - na puste zleci rusztowanie : By kata Twego syn rączką dziecinną Kamienie ciskał na mewę gościnną!
Więc, niźli szyję Twoją obnażoną Spróbują sznury, jak jest nieugiętą;
Więc, niźli ziemi szukać poczniesz piętą, By precz odkopnąć planetę spodloną - A ziemia spod stóp Twych, jak płaz zlękniony, Pierzchnie - więc, niźli rzekną: "Powieszony..." - Rzekną i pojrzą po sobie, czy kłamią? - -
Więc, nim kapelusz na twarz Ci załamią, By Ameryka, odpoznawszy syna, Nie zakrzyknęła na gwiazd swych dwanaście: "Korony mojej sztuczne ognie zgaście, Noc idzie - czarna noc z twarzą Murzyna!"
* Więc, nim Kościuszki cień i Waszyngtona Zadrży - początek pieśni przyjm, o! Janie... Bo pieśń nim dojrzy, człowiek nieraz skona, A niźli skona pieśń, naród pierw wstanie.
@@CynicalHistorian I mean what John Brown does is basically already what I do to the KKK in RDR2 anyway, why not have a whole game about punishing racists
"His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine. Mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun. Mine was bounded by time. His stretched away to the silent shores of eternity." - Frederick Douglas on John Brown in the 1860. I think it should be recognised that people we widely regard as moral valorised the man, not the sanitised historical figure but the man himself. Revolutions need revolutionaries and the revolutionaries hands' will never be clean enough for liberals.
I don’t know if you’ve heard Gloria Jane’s version, but I think it’s quite superior. I grew up on folks like Seeger, my take is purely subjective, but maybe you’ll give this a listen and appreciate it for what it is. th-cam.com/video/bSSn3NddwFQ/w-d-xo.html
Funnily enough during the actual King Richards time Kings have less power than how we think today because of Feudalism as in the Lords have a strong hold on their local lands.
One thing I learned about John Brown was that, before his big raid, fellow African-American abolitionist Moses Dickinson told him to stand down because a war might be brewing. Ironically, Brown's biggest raid proved Dickinson right. Also, Dinkinson was originally going to send an army of 200,000 freed slaves to raid the Deep South, but stopped as he made his assumptions, which were correct. BTW, the King may not approve of your singing, but that wasn't bad Cyph!
@T teg Egg You’re thinking of Marat, and you (and Oversimplified) are correct - a dead Marat probably did more to boost the Jacobins’ popularity and gave more excuse to persecute Royalists and moderates than a living, increasingly deranged Marat
After watching this video and doing some quick research to confirm, I can indeed confidently say that I am now more on the side of John Brown than I was before. Thank you for your hard work
I just kind of hate this show for making him basically a lunatic, it's like the writers couldn't imagine a person with genuine religious belief and moral conviction. Unbeknownst to them those things are real and they drove people to extraordinary measures, John Brown couldn't live in a slave society without taking action, that didn't make him crazy, he was FAR saner than all those politicians who compromised their beliefs and allowed the conflict to keep brewing for years and years
That was how the author, James McBride, wrote him in the book the show is based off of. The show isn’t based on the actual history but the historical fiction of McBride. It’s the same reason Fredrick Douglas is portrayed as sleazy.
Most of what I've read from historians comes to a general consensus that John Brown was, in fact, insane. However, they don't just call him crazy because of his abolitionist activities, his behavior was pretty erratic before that apparently. Just because he had a righteous conviction and his cause was just doesn't make him sane. That's like saying the schizophrenic person who believes the government has put microphones in his teeth isn't crazy because the NSA exists. It's possible to be correct and still delusional.
@@JackClockerinos Ethan Hawke's portrayal is genuinely unhinged, he's literally drooling in the first episode and the narrative really goes out of its way to paint him that way. I can't even imagine Willem Dafoe going that hammy( who was clearly born to play the role)
Extreme injustice requires extreme actions. Sometimes the only way to break chains is to take a hammer. Violence is indeed regrettible, and I wish we lived in a world we did not need it to liberate ourselves from the yoke of class-antagonisms.
Wow, really well put. The first three episodes of Good Lord Bird are so perfect regarding John Brown's creation of his own legend, and how that legend both assisted and conflicted with black desires for liberation. It's a really fascinating exploration of many different sides of antebellum America. If anyone has access to a free or cheap Showtime trial, I recommend checking it out
@@QwertyCaesar That’s post nuclear war in what the fifties, and the combat system is different (ie not arena shooter (if that is the right term idk) ) so not really. (I do know a bunch of people who play it though)
@@haidenlotze7530 yeah but you do get to kill a shit ton of slavers, more than basically any other game I can think of - including civil war themed games.
It’s funny how people today sometimes look at the past practice of burning buildings in war as some kind of war crime, yet that results in less harm to innocent civilians than modern bombing of cities like in WWII.
I mean, Sherman did pacify/decimated the West/Plain Indians (by driving the Buffalo to near extinction)😬. I still like him, but his deeds against the Amerindians definitely shouldn’t be celebrated.
At school, I was taught about Harriet Tubman and Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King Jr. however I was never taught about John Brown he should be recognized as a national hero.
now wait for that one crazy southern person to come in here "well it was about states right" yeah states rights about slavery even though you literally say it they will deny
oh hey, crazy southerner here, it wasn't about "states rights" it was about slavery, and the right to own other human beings. Amazingly enough the first people to be denied the right to own other human beings, was the Cherokee. They took their slaves with them on the trail of tears, without realizing that they wouldn't be able to own them in "indian country". The levels of racism involved are dense and deep when it comes to slavery and the abolition of it
Ikr... They can even read stuff like this, in their own secession declarations. Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money (slaves), or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property. They will point to other states that didn't mention slavery in their declaration like Tennessee... Who never stated why, just that they are. And once you look into their secession debates you quickly find out it was over slavery. But they never do that.
@@yozen1995 Not only did they take away a states right to interfere with slavery within their own states, they also made what they just did, secession, unconstitutional.
I agree slavery is a horrible evil but my only question is since when do two wrongs make a right? If you put John Brown in modern day you’ll understand the point I’m getting at. Let’s say there is an Islamic freedom fighter who hates the US for what we did in the Middle East. So let’s say he takes a suicide vest or just a gun and attacks the US embassy. Would you consider this a good act even though he thought he was fighting for a good cause?
The Good Lord Bird wears its heart on its sleeve- every episode starts with a declaration that: "All of this is true. Some of it actually happened." It's a poetic way of saying "Enjoy... but do your own research." It lives up to that ideal- it portrays the rieghteous anger of the abolitionist movement without excusing crimes committed in its name, all the while contextualising
...the events through the experiences of a protagonist who wants to free his people, but mainly wants to get out of the situation alive. It aims to give you an idea of the spirit of a movement, rather than strict historical facts. Its treatment of Frederick Douglass is understandably controversial, but he's ultimately right, as he probably was when he tried to talk John Brown down in real life. John Brown's plan was insane and had no chance of success. Douglass tells him that, and it's representative of Douglass' real-life actions. The stuff about Douglass' sex life doesn't need to be there, but it's in keeping with the tone of the piece, and it's not really historically accurate.
Principled people tend to be terrifying, because they can’t be mollified or compromised with. When they see something is unjust they will continue to oppose it until they are shown it is just. Physically opposing them won’t prove them wrong or make them relent; in fact, it will likely make them fight back harder.
The series is great, and way, way funnier than I ever expected. While we need movies and shows that portray the full brutality of slavery (The Underground Railroad is a good, recent example), it's great to see a show that deals seriously with the evil institution but isn't relentlessly fixated on suffering. It's a tough tonal tightrope to walk, but The Good Lord Bird pulls it off brilliantly.
As a Historian in training, and someone in a mixed race relationship, I look at what Brown did in the same way that Jewish partisans fought against fascism. His killings to me will always be justified because what he fought for will always be better than what Brown and his comrades fought against. He has been mythogised of course, and his murders of slave holders and their kids do cause chagrin, but I get it and I would ride with him.
Not to mention John's bloodshed was never without purpose. He never targeted non-combatants, and would spare a surprisingly-large amount of enemies in combat
The only problem I have with him is that he wasn’t effective. In the face of evil and unnatural laws, much can be justified. However, had he ‘contained’ his actions to ‘just’ violently liberating slaves, instead of hunting slavers / pro-slavery terrorists and trying to start a slave rebellion, the backlash from the slavers might have been less and there might have been more political support for abolition. The slavers used his actions to paint their own as self-defense. Thus, he played into the hands of their propoganda. And when you are fighting a war, propoganda is perhaps the most important objective of all. In a fight like this, the only unjustifiable act is loosing. The same, I think, can probably be said about victims of Nazi persecution using violence to protect themself. Or Malcolm X and his armed black self-defense militia. The actions themselves I can not condemn in the face is such horrible injustice as they faces, only the fact that they were not more effectieve in choosing their actions for propoganda value.
Living in Kansas for almost 30 years and have visited (and also read as much as possible) most of the historical sites concerning the Bleeding Kansas era numerous times. Still learning stuff new about this era every visit or book I read.
Loved this show. Also as crazy as Brown was portrayed, I feel he was still portrayed as human and even himself had moments of tenderness, whether it was with Onion or his sons. Also, while he was violently crazy, he had lots of support. If anything Browns brutality and poor planning was what hurt him. Also his failures in business were not that unique as other figures at the time also struggled to be successful. Overall a good series even if not %100 accurate.
@@CynicalHistorian Well as they say you can't teach a "cool cat" new tricks! I had a neighbor who was brought to tears when she found a mouse in her house, absolutely terrified. A cat invited herself in and would pride herself when she showed off the prey she had caught, much to the chagrin of her lady!
My birthday is 9th May 1974; John Brown 9th May 1800. I even have the same surname, although most likely not related. John Brown's intent was true. One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist. But just one thing today remains so true... His truth STILL marches on! Terrorist or Hero? I say both... A Hero who terrorised the evil that is slavery! His truth still marches on!
His being crazy is a myth though. Lost Cause historians spent decades portraying him as crazy to the point where he now has this undeserved reputation.
1) I love the guidelines for comments on this channel 2) John Brown was correct that slavery could not end without bloodshed, he was the first civil war leader
He became more insane every year after his death. His problem was he fought to free men and equality. We lost interest in this during the 1880's. Hard to have a great man whole fought and died for something nobody believed.
I'm glad you did another of these Based on true story video analyzing the historical accuracy of History in Media which is great I hope you do more of these again. On the part of TV Series being more difficult to do that is understandable and true. If you are to do another TV Series I suggest the HBO Original Series ROME although lasting only two Seasons not as long as Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad I still consider it one of the best Historical Fiction Media I have seen. I suggest you try it and if you wish since it has an ending you could try to do a Video on it.
I don't have anything to say, really, but this deserves a comment to contribute to your stats. Thank you for such an in-depth dive into a topic my education never touched on and keep it up, sir!
I had seen the trailer for this but was reluctant to watch it. I’ve seen enough of your content to trust your recommendations. Not to mention we came to the same conclusions about President Woodrow Wilson. After seeing the documentary “Blood and Oil - The Middle East in World War I,” I was never the same about him.
Slight error: the Jayhawkers were actually led by James Lane, also from New England and also a little crazy in his own right, but Brown and Lane certainly cooperated.
From what I understand, John Brown was the first person executed under the Constitution for treason. The reason was - and perhaps his error - that he had created a provisional government, with which he had planned to invade the south, take plantations to liberate their slaves, send the weaker ones to Canada by Underground Railroad, folding the stronger ones into his provisional government’s army. The first military action of this provisional government’s army was to attempt to seize the weapons at the armory at Harper’s Ferry. Brown had done this because he understood that the balance of power was going to swing to the north with the 1870 Census, and the Buchanan Administration was already preparing for war by sending the American Navy to distant areas of the world so they would not be available for southern blockades. Is this an accurate assessment? “As He died to make men holy Let us die to make things cheap”… Leonard Cohen, Steer Your Way, You Want It Darker, 2016
If you have to condense it down into a sentence or two aka how we handle school textbook history: John Brown was a violent fundamentalist in relation to abolition. His violence was not focused, nor honestly very successful, but his martyrdom for his cause vaulted him into mythology as part of the looming Civil war. It was a right place, right time, even if his actions were in their own right quite suspect or problematic. Totally agree about Good Lord Bird. I watched it when it came out. It's quite a good watch. The super long prayers made me laugh. Hard.
4:29 you missed a detail... Garrison, the editor or the liberator, was harassed with constant pressure by a local preacher by the name Leonard Woolsey Bacon, who had moved to Connecticut. Garrison only took up this cause later in life. That preacher, who pressured Garrison was the grandson of David Bacon, a preacher from Tallmadge Ohio. His church, which still stands at Tallmadge circle, WAS the abolitionist church when John Brown stood in it's balcony and pledged his life to end slavery. Point is... Look how much this ties back to just a few people. A few good people. In fact, that part of the story is even more interesting because David Bacon was the brainchild of the underground railroad.
This is like something straight from “Outlaws of the Marsh” / 水浒传 / Suikoden. Flawed characters, yet they are seen as folk heroes who dispense justice against a perceived corrupt government.
Reading the novel now and highly recommend it. It's well written and hysterically funny. Slavery was a brutal institution that was being defended by equally ruthless and violent men. For all his flaws John Brown will always be a freedom fighter and hero to the descendants of those on whose behalf he gave his life.
I think John Brown is kinda like the American equivalent of Che Guevara: a man who was undoubtedly controversial and complex, who committed actions that make even his supporters pause, but in death he became and almost god like symbol. Hell, in parts of Latin America, Che Guevara’s portrait can be found in Catholic churches, like a syncretic saint. Personally, as a Kansan, I consider brown a hero, but a complicated man, much like Che Guevara
I thought your voice was very nice ! My cat also is concerned when i sing or read out loud. Gets in my face, wondering what is happening, lol . I loved the show! Ethan Hawke was great. So gritty and dark and on point
It is weird to see somebody sing John Brown without a beer. In Belgium students Sing that song on cantus (it is a weird gathering where you sing songs and drink)
We sing it in church. It’s in our hymnal (the New Century Hymnal). Also on Independence Day and at protests. Though we normally call it “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”.
I actually visited the John brown farm and I live in upstate NY it's a cool place the tour guide was dressed up in a Union civil war uniform and him and my teacher let me hold his 1860 Springfield rifle
I think Harriet Tubman said it best
“He done more in dying, than 100 men would in living."
Frederick Douglass said of John Brown “ his zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine , mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun... I could speak for the slave, but John Brown could die for him.”
John Brown might've been brutal, but his brutality pales in comparison to that of the institution of slavery. And ultimately, he was right, slavery was only expunged through the bloodshed of the Civil War
Also if you consider bleeding Kansas or the atrocities committed by "Quantrill's Raiders", the defenders of slavery had not a iota more of restraint and were just as brutal for their cause, which was objectively less defendable to be violent over.
@@Ugly_German_Truths Exactly, their violence was pedestrian and everyday, while Brown dared to carry out violence in the name of good. It's not normal.
Sixty-ninth like bc this comment is nice.
As much as I hate the edgy fucks who quote the Dark Knight constantly, I think this occasion justifies it:
"You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go 'according to plan.' Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds." - Heath Ledger via the Joker.
People don't care when the violence is systematic, they can justify that. But when the violence, no matter how justified, is "random" or appears disorganized, it becomes a problem.
@@warweasel2832 Humans don't like chaos. As long as they can rationalize the chaos, they can accept quite a lot, it's a coping mechanism.
As a black man I got nothing but respect and admiration for John Brown
You don't need to be black for that my brother
@@aneelchattar8600 damn your right *skin looses pigmentation*
I did for a long time although despite agreeing with the Jayhawker cause learning about the women and children getting killed really soured it
I mean I don’t hate John brown or think he’s evil but he’s a man and a flawed man like everyone else. He fought for a good cause but was pretty down with some pretty fucked up shit
Like don’t get me wrong I love reading about the guy and how he fucked up slavers that shit is based as hell
Amen!!! I don't recognize Brown's using violence against slavers as "ignoble"... especially when it was the only way to end slavery. The slavers were almost literally _begging_ for it! It was, in fact, the only noble way to assault that infernal "institution"...
as a white man, same dude, same
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
John Brown's body lies a-moldering in the grave
But his soul goes marching on
*Deep inhale*
GLORY, GLORY, HALLELUJAH!
We need a epic remix of that song
@@warlordofbritannia
He captured Harper's Ferry with his nineteen men so true
He frightened old Virginia till she trembled through and through
They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitor crew
But his soul goes marching on
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
The stars above in Heaven are looking kindly down
On the grave of old John Brown
#shermandidnothingwrong
"I have lived for the slave. John Brown has died for him."
Frederick Douglas
Fun fact: esteemed Polish poet Cyprian Kamil Norwid also wrote a poem in honor of John Brown in 1859, "To Citizen John Brown".
Here it is in original polish
Przez Oceanu ruchome płaszczyzny
Pieśń Ci, jak mewę, posyłam, o! Janie...
Ta lecieć długo będzie do ojczyzny
Wolnych - bo wątpi już: czy ją zastanie?...
- Czy też, jak promień Twej zacnej siwizny,
Biała - na puste zleci rusztowanie :
By kata Twego syn rączką dziecinną
Kamienie ciskał na mewę gościnną!
Więc, niźli szyję Twoją obnażoną
Spróbują sznury, jak jest nieugiętą;
Więc, niźli ziemi szukać poczniesz piętą,
By precz odkopnąć planetę spodloną -
A ziemia spod stóp Twych, jak płaz zlękniony,
Pierzchnie -
więc, niźli rzekną: "Powieszony..." -
Rzekną i pojrzą po sobie, czy kłamią? - -
Więc, nim kapelusz na twarz Ci załamią,
By Ameryka, odpoznawszy syna,
Nie zakrzyknęła na gwiazd swych dwanaście:
"Korony mojej sztuczne ognie zgaście,
Noc idzie - czarna noc z twarzą Murzyna!"
*
Więc, nim Kościuszki cień i Waszyngtona
Zadrży - początek pieśni przyjm, o! Janie...
Bo pieśń nim dojrzy, człowiek nieraz skona,
A niźli skona pieśń, naród pierw wstanie.
I want a Red Dead style game about John Brown now
That sounds like fun
@@CynicalHistorian I mean what John Brown does is basically already what I do to the KKK in RDR2 anyway, why not have a whole game about punishing racists
John Browns Cry of Freedom. Go across the south chopping up southerners and freeing slaves. Sure what not.
@@natelandherr5202 plus the intro theme also has Red Dead vibes
@@LadyTylerBioRodriguez You had me searching this up for a minute, thinking it was a real game. 😂
All slave owners get a frown, when they hear that good old John Brown is coming around, to their very own town.
@@georgenelson8917 Are…are you serious?
John Brown did nothing wrong.
He was a good comrade
@@bowenr9935 there are so many words to describe him
He did wrong but for a good cause
@@guyguy7634 yeah
Wrong ways Right Path
John Brown: “Oh so you’re an Abolitionist? Free every slave.”
🤣🤣
John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave.
Agreed. Would you have killed pro slavers if you could?
@@theamerican3785 hell yes. Every one of them
And Kansas knew his valor when he fought her rights to save.
"His zeal in the cause of freedom was infinitely superior to mine. Mine was as the taper light, his was as the burning sun. Mine was bounded by time. His stretched away to the silent shores of eternity."
- Frederick Douglas on John Brown in the 1860.
I think it should be recognised that people we widely regard as moral valorised the man, not the sanitised historical figure but the man himself. Revolutions need revolutionaries and the revolutionaries hands' will never be clean enough for liberals.
Damn right
John Brown is a hero. He laid down his life for the freedom of others
Oh now I get why Battle hymn of the republic sounds like a Crusade because it basically was.
The holiest of causes, freedom. Deus vult illud
@@trog7986 Deus Vult, Deus Vult alls thats missing now is an Abolishonist called Tiger and a case of cannibalism.
John Brown is proof that you can change the world with a dozen good men, a few good rifles and massive balls of steel.
Say what you will about John Brown, but you can't deny he was absolutely based
Ngl I was really hoping to hear Pete Seeger’s singing “John Brown’s body” and I’m so glad I wasn’t disappointed
I don’t know if you’ve heard Gloria Jane’s version, but I think it’s quite superior. I grew up on folks like Seeger, my take is purely subjective, but maybe you’ll give this a listen and appreciate it for what it is.
th-cam.com/video/bSSn3NddwFQ/w-d-xo.html
There should be a one hundred foot tall statue of John Brown next to EVERY confederate traitor. Or Harriet Tubman. Either works for me.
We have a statue in Kansas. It's more like 8 feet tall I think, but he looks like 100 feet every time I look at him.
Why not both of them? Riding a fucking tank
And for every imperialist president a resistor from the colonized world. So every president.
When your king makes a demand of you you do not refer to his majesty's requests as him being a nuisance. You say yes my liege and give him pats
Funnily enough during the actual King Richards time Kings have less power than how we think today because of Feudalism as in the Lords have a strong hold on their local lands.
He just gets more BASED the more I hear about him
One thing I learned about John Brown was that, before his big raid, fellow African-American abolitionist Moses Dickinson told him to stand down because a war might be brewing. Ironically, Brown's biggest raid proved Dickinson right. Also, Dinkinson was originally going to send an army of 200,000 freed slaves to raid the Deep South, but stopped as he made his assumptions, which were correct.
BTW, the King may not approve of your singing, but that wasn't bad Cyph!
@T teg Egg
You’re thinking of Marat, and you (and Oversimplified) are correct - a dead Marat probably did more to boost the Jacobins’ popularity and gave more excuse to persecute Royalists and moderates than a living, increasingly deranged Marat
After watching this video and doing some quick research to confirm, I can indeed confidently say that I am now more on the side of John Brown than I was before. Thank you for your hard work
It's really hard to argue against him
I just kind of hate this show for making him basically a lunatic, it's like the writers couldn't imagine a person with genuine religious belief and moral conviction.
Unbeknownst to them those things are real and they drove people to extraordinary measures, John Brown couldn't live in a slave society without taking action, that didn't make him crazy, he was FAR saner than all those politicians who compromised their beliefs and allowed the conflict to keep brewing for years and years
That was how the author, James McBride, wrote him in the book the show is based off of. The show isn’t based on the actual history but the historical fiction of McBride. It’s the same reason Fredrick Douglas is portrayed as sleazy.
The show didn't make him a lunatic at all though. He was just a little eccentric, and is generally portrayed in a positive light
I would say the show made him appear zealous, but possessing both sanity and common sense.
Most of what I've read from historians comes to a general consensus that John Brown was, in fact, insane. However, they don't just call him crazy because of his abolitionist activities, his behavior was pretty erratic before that apparently.
Just because he had a righteous conviction and his cause was just doesn't make him sane. That's like saying the schizophrenic person who believes the government has put microphones in his teeth isn't crazy because the NSA exists. It's possible to be correct and still delusional.
@@JackClockerinos Ethan Hawke's portrayal is genuinely unhinged, he's literally drooling in the first episode and the narrative really goes out of its way to paint him that way. I can't even imagine Willem Dafoe going that hammy( who was clearly born to play the role)
Extreme injustice requires extreme actions. Sometimes the only way to break chains is to take a hammer. Violence is indeed regrettible, and I wish we lived in a world we did not need it to liberate ourselves from the yoke of class-antagonisms.
Also not to mention John was more reserved in his violence than most people give him credit for, and he generally wasn't as brutal as you'd think
"I'm not a monster, I'm just ahead of the curve." - John Brown probably.
A real American Hero.
Wow, really well put. The first three episodes of Good Lord Bird are so perfect regarding John Brown's creation of his own legend, and how that legend both assisted and conflicted with black desires for liberation. It's a really fascinating exploration of many different sides of antebellum America. If anyone has access to a free or cheap Showtime trial, I recommend checking it out
or read the book, I have one chapter left, it's stunning
I NEED a "DOOM" / "Wolfenstein" like game, but along the lines of John Brown / Django Unchained etc in my life lol
That's just Fallout New Vegas
@@QwertyCaesar That’s post nuclear war in what the fifties, and the combat system is different (ie not arena shooter (if that is the right term idk) ) so not really.
(I do know a bunch of people who play it though)
@@haidenlotze7530 yeah but you do get to kill a shit ton of slavers, more than basically any other game I can think of - including civil war themed games.
@@haidenlotze7530 The 2280s
Brown did nothing wrong and Sherman should have kept on marching from sea to shining sea.
Yes
It’s funny how people today sometimes look at the past practice of burning buildings in war as some kind of war crime, yet that results in less harm to innocent civilians than modern bombing of cities like in WWII.
I mean, Sherman did pacify/decimated the West/Plain Indians (by driving the Buffalo to near extinction)😬. I still like him, but his deeds against the Amerindians definitely shouldn’t be celebrated.
@@patrickblanchette4337 o yeah that’s pretty terrible
Sherman thought that Africans did better under slavery lmfao
At school, I was taught about Harriet Tubman and Malcolm X, and Martin Luther King Jr. however I was never taught about John Brown he should be recognized as a national hero.
Malcolm X once said John Brown would be the only white ally he'd accept
Thankfully I’m from Kansas, so we learned all about him!
now wait for that one crazy southern person to come in here "well it was about states right" yeah states rights about slavery even though you literally say it they will deny
oh hey, crazy southerner here, it wasn't about "states rights" it was about slavery, and the right to own other human beings. Amazingly enough the first people to be denied the right to own other human beings, was the Cherokee. They took their slaves with them on the trail of tears, without realizing that they wouldn't be able to own them in "indian country".
The levels of racism involved are dense and deep when it comes to slavery and the abolition of it
Ikr... They can even read stuff like this, in their own secession declarations.
Utter subjugation awaits us in the Union, if we should consent longer to remain in it. It is not a matter of choice, but of necessity. We must either submit to degradation, and to the loss of property worth four billions of money (slaves), or we must secede from the Union framed by our fathers, to secure this as well as every other species of property.
They will point to other states that didn't mention slavery in their declaration like Tennessee... Who never stated why, just that they are. And once you look into their secession debates you quickly find out it was over slavery. But they never do that.
The confederacy had a clause that states couldn't outlaw slavery
so it wasn't even states rates to own slaves, it was just owning slaves.
@@yozen1995 Not only did they take away a states right to interfere with slavery within their own states, they also made what they just did, secession, unconstitutional.
I agree slavery is a horrible evil but my only question is since when do two wrongs make a right? If you put John Brown in modern day you’ll understand the point I’m getting at. Let’s say there is an Islamic freedom fighter who hates the US for what we did in the Middle East. So let’s say he takes a suicide vest or just a gun and attacks the US embassy. Would you consider this a good act even though he thought he was fighting for a good cause?
The Good Lord Bird wears its heart on its sleeve- every episode starts with a declaration that: "All of this is true. Some of it actually happened." It's a poetic way of saying "Enjoy... but do your own research." It lives up to that ideal- it portrays the rieghteous anger of the abolitionist movement without excusing crimes committed in its name, all the while contextualising
...the events through the experiences of a protagonist who wants to free his people, but mainly wants to get out of the situation alive. It aims to give you an idea of the spirit of a movement, rather than strict historical facts. Its treatment of Frederick Douglass is understandably controversial, but he's ultimately right, as he probably was when he tried to talk John Brown down in real life. John Brown's plan was insane and had no chance of success. Douglass tells him that, and it's representative of Douglass' real-life actions. The stuff about Douglass' sex life doesn't need to be there, but it's in keeping with the tone of the piece, and it's not really historically accurate.
The Good Lord Bird is one of my favourite TV shows in the last few years, anyway.
Principled people tend to be terrifying, because they can’t be mollified or compromised with. When they see something is unjust they will continue to oppose it until they are shown it is just. Physically opposing them won’t prove them wrong or make them relent; in fact, it will likely make them fight back harder.
I liked it more when he was killing nazis and played by Charlie Sheen. But this was good too.
Either one is good
Wait what? The tiger played brown?
Wait, when did Charlie Sheen play a Nazi-Killer?
wut?
John Brown is MY KIND of crazy! If I was there at Harpers Ferry in 1859, I would have JOINED HIM!
John Brown's legacy seems to have actually been the catalyst of the Civil War. His last words definitely came true.
I’m sure that if it wasn’t John Brown, something else would have started the war later
The series is great, and way, way funnier than I ever expected. While we need movies and shows that portray the full brutality of slavery (The Underground Railroad is a good, recent example), it's great to see a show that deals seriously with the evil institution but isn't relentlessly fixated on suffering. It's a tough tonal tightrope to walk, but The Good Lord Bird pulls it off brilliantly.
There is no form of integrity greater than to fight and die for what you know is right. Even when it would be easier to turn a blind eye to evil.
West Virginia becoming a black ethnostate is one of the most bizarre things I have ever heard
I'm disappointed they made him insane in the show. John Browns one of my hero's.
Not really, he's more portrayed as a more eccentric person than insane. What scenes in your opinion had him be crazy?
Jhon brown really was insane though like there's fervor then there's john brown
John brown was a true legend
I was in the middle of binging the Based on a True Story playlist and BOOM.
I was just looking for videos about John Brown.
As a Historian in training, and someone in a mixed race relationship, I look at what Brown did in the same way that Jewish partisans fought against fascism. His killings to me will always be justified because what he fought for will always be better than what Brown and his comrades fought against. He has been mythogised of course, and his murders of slave holders and their kids do cause chagrin, but I get it and I would ride with him.
Not to mention John's bloodshed was never without purpose. He never targeted non-combatants, and would spare a surprisingly-large amount of enemies in combat
The only problem I have with him is that he wasn’t effective.
In the face of evil and unnatural laws, much can be justified.
However, had he ‘contained’ his actions to ‘just’ violently liberating slaves, instead of hunting slavers / pro-slavery terrorists and trying to start a slave rebellion, the backlash from the slavers might have been less and there might have been more political support for abolition.
The slavers used his actions to paint their own as self-defense. Thus, he played into the hands of their propoganda.
And when you are fighting a war, propoganda is perhaps the most important objective of all. In a fight like this, the only unjustifiable act is loosing.
The same, I think, can probably be said about victims of Nazi persecution using violence to protect themself. Or Malcolm X and his armed black self-defense militia.
The actions themselves I can not condemn in the face is such horrible injustice as they faces, only the fact that they were not more effectieve in choosing their actions for propoganda value.
Living in Kansas for almost 30 years and have visited (and also read as much as possible) most of the historical sites concerning the Bleeding Kansas era numerous times. Still learning stuff new about this era every visit or book I read.
This is why I bought the show and binge-watched it. Definitely my favorite Western!
Loved this show. Also as crazy as Brown was portrayed, I feel he was still portrayed as human and even himself had moments of tenderness, whether it was with Onion or his sons. Also, while he was violently crazy, he had lots of support. If anything Browns brutality and poor planning was what hurt him. Also his failures in business were not that unique as other figures at the time also struggled to be successful.
Overall a good series even if not %100 accurate.
Long live the spirit of John Brown!🥰😍🤩
But his soul goes marching on
King Richard: "A mouse! A mouse! My kingdom for a mouse!"
He's caught three since I've had him and only maimed them. I had to kill them myself, ugh
@@CynicalHistorian Well as they say you can't teach a "cool cat" new tricks! I had a neighbor who was brought to tears when she found a mouse in her house, absolutely terrified. A cat invited herself in and would pride herself when she showed off the prey she had caught, much to the chagrin of her lady!
King, beautiful creature.....John Brown, great great legendary man of tremendous vision & foresight.....truly great....🙋🙏
I love John Brown... the man, and the myth. We need both.
John Brown was just ahead of his time
John Brown didn't do enough
He was the greatest American hero I wish that he could’ve done more
I don't care what anyone says, Brown's a straight gangster.
My birthday is 9th May 1974; John Brown 9th May 1800. I even have the same surname, although most likely not related.
John Brown's intent was true.
One man's freedom fighter is another's terrorist.
But just one thing today remains so true...
His truth STILL marches on!
Terrorist or Hero?
I say both...
A Hero who terrorised the evil that is slavery!
His truth still marches on!
*Y'er god damn right.*
The man's cause was righteous, even while he himself was batshit fucking crazy.
His being crazy is a myth though. Lost Cause historians spent decades portraying him as crazy to the point where he now has this undeserved reputation.
He wasn't crazy
I had no idea "John Brown's body" predates "Battle hymn of the Republic"
1) I love the guidelines for comments on this channel
2) John Brown was correct that slavery could not end without bloodshed, he was the first civil war leader
He became more insane every year after his death. His problem was he fought to free men and equality. We lost interest in this during the 1880's. Hard to have a great man whole fought and died for something nobody believed.
The acting from Ethan Hawk is striking and impressive.
Watching a man scene after scene flailing his arms around hollering is hilarious.
The cat attacking your feet because you were singing was very funny
Catfederates hate abolitionist hymns.
Got to love these historical Figures
Same here
*If anything; John Brown is the closest thing to have an American William Wallace*
I'm glad you did another of these Based on true story video analyzing the historical accuracy of History in Media which is great I hope you do more of these again. On the part of TV Series being more difficult to do that is understandable and true. If you are to do another TV Series I suggest the HBO Original Series ROME although lasting only two Seasons not as long as Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad I still consider it one of the best Historical Fiction Media I have seen. I suggest you try it and if you wish since it has an ending you could try to do a Video on it.
John brown did nothing wrong. In fact the only thing he did wrong is not absolutely dunking on Lee when he had the chance.
I don't have anything to say, really, but this deserves a comment to contribute to your stats. Thank you for such an in-depth dive into a topic my education never touched on and keep it up, sir!
I had seen the trailer for this but was reluctant to watch it. I’ve seen enough of your content to trust your recommendations. Not to mention we came to the same conclusions about President Woodrow Wilson. After seeing the documentary “Blood and Oil - The Middle East in World War I,” I was never the same about him.
John Brown was a beast, and I mean that as a compliment in the highest. This man was amazing. A true man amongst men.
We should stop giving credit to Lincoln.
And give credit to John brown. That man is a hero .
I recently watched the show. I'm grateful for your recommendation.
Just hear you singing John Brown's body was the best thing I ever heard in a long time
Slight error: the Jayhawkers were actually led by James Lane, also from New England and also a little crazy in his own right, but Brown and Lane certainly cooperated.
Damn, John Brown's last words are kind of chilling.
We kept jacksons leg but not john browns beard?
Way to go history
Am i thinking of dan sickles? Might be his leg. Dammit
Surely you meant the great righteous purging at Pottawatomie
The mad prophet of liberty for all.
John Brown was a real American Hero.
Man great documentary....keep it up and keep it going!
From what I understand, John Brown was the first person executed under the Constitution for treason. The reason was - and perhaps his error - that he had created a provisional government, with which he had planned to invade the south, take plantations to liberate their slaves, send the weaker ones to Canada by Underground Railroad, folding the stronger ones into his provisional government’s army. The first military action of this provisional government’s army was to attempt to seize the weapons at the armory at Harper’s Ferry. Brown had done this because he understood that the balance of power was going to swing to the north with the 1870 Census, and the Buchanan Administration was already preparing for war by sending the American Navy to distant areas of the world so they would not be available for southern blockades.
Is this an accurate assessment?
“As He died to make men holy
Let us die to make things cheap”…
Leonard Cohen, Steer Your Way, You Want It Darker, 2016
If you have to condense it down into a sentence or two aka how we handle school textbook history: John Brown was a violent fundamentalist in relation to abolition. His violence was not focused, nor honestly very successful, but his martyrdom for his cause vaulted him into mythology as part of the looming Civil war. It was a right place, right time, even if his actions were in their own right quite suspect or problematic.
Totally agree about Good Lord Bird. I watched it when it came out. It's quite a good watch. The super long prayers made me laugh. Hard.
4:29 you missed a detail...
Garrison, the editor or the liberator, was harassed with constant pressure by a local preacher by the name Leonard Woolsey Bacon, who had moved to Connecticut. Garrison only took up this cause later in life.
That preacher, who pressured Garrison was the grandson of David Bacon, a preacher from Tallmadge Ohio. His church, which still stands at Tallmadge circle, WAS the abolitionist church when John Brown stood in it's balcony and pledged his life to end slavery.
Point is... Look how much this ties back to just a few people. A few good people.
In fact, that part of the story is even more interesting because David Bacon was the brainchild of the underground railroad.
This is like something straight from “Outlaws of the Marsh” / 水浒传 / Suikoden.
Flawed characters, yet they are seen as folk heroes who dispense justice against a perceived corrupt government.
Reading the novel now and highly recommend it. It's well written and hysterically funny. Slavery was a brutal institution that was being defended by equally ruthless and violent men. For all his flaws John Brown will always be a freedom fighter and hero to the descendants of those on whose behalf he gave his life.
“unhand me peasant!”
I enjoyed the singing xD
John Brown - American badass.
John was doing that good work. He is an absolute maniac.
I think John Brown is kinda like the American equivalent of Che Guevara: a man who was undoubtedly controversial and complex, who committed actions that make even his supporters pause, but in death he became and almost god like symbol. Hell, in parts of Latin America, Che Guevara’s portrait can be found in Catholic churches, like a syncretic saint.
Personally, as a Kansan, I consider brown a hero, but a complicated man, much like Che Guevara
John Brown was a legend
A failed man is the most dangerous one.
I thought your voice was very nice ! My cat also is concerned when i sing or read out loud.
Gets in my face, wondering what is happening, lol . I loved the show! Ethan Hawke was great. So gritty and dark and on point
Nice recommendation. I know nothing about him outside of "Flashman and the Angel of the Lord" and that his parachute didn't open.
Oh, so this was one of the those teased videos you were saying TH-cam BS was holding up?
They content IDed the army choir video (which is public domain)
"They hung him for a traitor, they themselves the traitors crew.
great upload.... the cat has the right idea. Love the vid
It is weird to see somebody sing John Brown without a beer. In Belgium students Sing that song on cantus (it is a weird gathering where you sing songs and drink)
We sing it in church. It’s in our hymnal (the New Century Hymnal). Also on Independence Day and at protests. Though we normally call it “The Battle Hymn of the Republic”.
@@sophiejones7727 yeah, to us Belgians it has no cultural significance. We just seem to like the fact that it sings nicely I think 😄
always great- and informative. thanks man.
I actually visited the John brown farm and I live in upstate NY it's a cool place the tour guide was dressed up in a Union civil war uniform and him and my teacher let me hold his 1860 Springfield rifle
For anyone that wants to know the name of that cool music in the beginning, it's called "ghosts of the rail" by Gabriel Lewis