My favorite VR related panel of all times. After watching it the first time I rushed to back the Oculus Rift Kickstarter. Now both Carmack and Abrash works for the gentleman on the left. Amazing!
Indeed. He's the most impressive VR enthusiast I've met on the MTBS3D VR forums. I remember his original posts on what became the Rift, going back to 2010. He realized what very few did - that all the technological pieces for VR are now available, and need only be compiled and refined - and had the skills and drive to actualize the idea. A single interested individual ended the VR winter. Reminds me of Larry Ellison starting Oracle after reading of an unrealized idea from IBM.
Only back then. Everything was a big unknown. The initial idea was to sell some 100 kits, to build yourself, on kickstarter. To change road of making several 1000s of premade ones is a challenging task. They really don't want to disappoint people. Now of course it's easy to see the success.
I believe it was about whether any OEM's had plans to make input devices specifically with this kind of hardware in mind. I am willing to bet optical motion sensing will be the path (think kinect but with multiple viewpoints calculated together-- perhaps 2 cameras on adjacent 90 degree walls) that will work most naturally with this, for body movement/actions. With the right kind of receptors in peripherals, I think cheaper but high quality controls could be easily produced as well. Hall sensors
Man this and LEAP motion are the two things I'm looking forward to most in technological advancements but just the thought to using them both in one game just blows my mind.
Man I was just thinking of it being on the desk but that sounds even better! I doubt they'd ever sell em together because of the price but even just having a simple mount for it on the hmd would be awesome.
no you won't. the way I figure it works best, is having the rotation from the neck down controlled by the analog stick (with the notable exceptions as leaning etc), leaving the head to spin inside the limits that come naturally
Will be interesting to see how VR and AR will stand in terms of the actual content creation, and actually what disciplines will use which system. I think programming and such will probably find a great use for VR to visualize their code and rest their eyes, but the 2d and sculpt sections of the art department will probably refrain from VR in favor of AR until you can somehow implement your own gestures and limbs to a sufficiently high degree...
I found the stuff about possibly being able to have a virtual monitor with a much more comfortable focal distance very compelling. I sit at my computer for hours on end I can feel my eyes getting worse and worse as they become used to only focusing on one relatively close distance and very rarely looking at anything further away. I think my eyes and the muscles are actually deteriorating as a result of this. So, this kind of virtual monitor idea sounds very good to me.
iratelobster Finaly another person who understands that the buyout is a good thing! So many people overreact... The rift is going to be so increadible now!
agreed. The only option thats been available for years to track head movement at least is TrackIR, and that works wonderfully if it's supported. This has much more potential obviously and will be every MechWarrior fan's wet dream, no doubt. lol
He is very Luckey to get in touch with greatest developers, because only in collab with such people he will be able to take VR systems to the next level, instead of just making something you can wear on your head and possibly watch games on.
The main problem with shutter glasses is it chops the framerate in half to 60hz in each eye. Carmack knows this and from what i head these don't chop the framerate in half.
oh man i want to fast forward a couple of years when all this cool stuff will be here. i cant wait. these new consoles better be looking at this and how they can use it or they will be missing the train.
I agree that the kickstarter is for hackers/hardcore hardware R&D types, but I can't wait for this sort of thing to be perfected and adopted in the consumer market. AR is cool, Google Glass etc, but I've been waiting for a real, solid VR gaming experience my entire life, and for the first time I feel like it's technologically within our grasp. It's not going to be quite like plugging into the Matrix with the first hardware revision but think of the new genres of games/instructional tools!
Almost! I actually played a hardware accelerated version of quake (VQuake) that predates GLQuake and used the Rendition Verite' chipset.. Man the difference in quality was so astounding with a dedicated card.. and then applying the transparent water patches to all the bsp's to get nice see-through water as well (but you couldnt cheat and see players underneath, which was strange and chaotic and funny at times. Man I miss Quake! Cheers to all the gamers out there who realize where it started!
They are currently working on API for Rift, so every possible engine (including Unity, which is like the top engine for indies to work with) could support it. So if you are indie, just wait until Unity will make an official statement that they support that thing, and after that - make great games for VR. Good luck.
What's funny is I became obsessed with 3d displays and HMDs when I saw Avatar, and after trying a $200 dollar Zalman I bought I just wanted my peripheral vision immersed in the display. So I took a giant magnifying lens from the drafting table used for crafts and strapped it to my face, then i used a towel to line the edges to block any light. I would then get close to my 30 inch cinema display at 2560 x 1600 and it was a very strange experience. It sort of worked, but it was very uncomfortable.
as long as this unit is not wireless you probably need to keep track of weird statistics like how many consecutive "left" turns you make in a game for the wires not to curl up too much.
I think HL3 has been delayed in order to showcase a new way of playing games, and I think this may delay it more and may be integrated with it. Or they may wipe the slate and start over for the Oculus or something related. I wouldn't be too surprised. It would justify the hype for a lot of people.
What was said during the blackout @ 42 min: Abrash: "...which reminds me of the other thing that's gonna happen and evolve really quickly over the next few years, which is input technology. Cause you're not gonna be sitting there with a game controller five years from now doing this..." Luckey: "That's just something we're doing for the devkit because it's proven tech, we don't have to make it; and, developers are really gonna want to experiment with those new forms of input via Kinect, or..."
Bingo. the problem's not resolution (since the resolution on the Rift is way ahead of anything else on the market for the price anyway). the biggest problem's always been output lag.
It took about 10 years, but we finally have displays with no screen door effect lol. Carmack pretty much saved the industry with his quest to make VR mobile. Its a shame to see the hardware held back now by bad software. Its pretty clear now, that the Meta team put the cart before the horse. The Oculus GO offered a pretty coherent VR experience, but the Meta team had to retcon it in favor of the upcoming Metaverse; which we now know looks like Roblox...
I am the Universe. I control everything by being everything at once. I entangle with myself and I am omnipresent over time. I can traverse all known matter and even other universes and merge into one giant presence. I am God.
Heck I bought a Voodoo 3D for almost twice the money of the Oculus Rift back when GLQuake was just an alpha! =P I remember not getting the card before the weekly LAN we used to have (~50 people every Saturday in a small town in the North of Sweden) and dropping the software Opengl.dll Windows used for the pipe screen saver just to see how it would look. Only at 5 seconds per frame =P
skyrim already has a working mod for it, so im sure that someone will make a mod for fallout 3/new vegas closer to the time of the consumer release, and future fallouts will hopefully have rift support from the get-go.
Games really do Push tech and popularize tech. I'm a Gamer and also Love 3D and own a 3Dtv and love 3D gaming. VR is only the natural evolution of 3D and i'm ready for that too. Hoping Nex Gen has native 3D support.
Argh... Does anyone know the name of the two instrumentals that play during the beginning and end of the keynote, or were they pieces commissioned specifically for these YT videos (in which case, I'll never get to listen to them in their full glory D:).
He doesn't. Carmack is the Chief Technical Officer of Oculus and Abrash is the Chief Scientist. Generally in those roles they would be peers both reporting to the CEO.
To me it seems like they just want the Rift to the get ball rolling on GOOD head mounted displays for gaming, low latency, fast response times, accuracy etc, that is why the resolution isn't very important now, it's also about getting developers accustomed to making a game using the tech.
The PS4 could even run this without stereoscopic if they get good parallax working. It would be great if the PS4 could have a stereoscopic accelerator add-on.
I think your right, he's wrong. Augmented reality is literally just in its infancy, an I think Augmented reality will blend more an more with virtual reality in the future in unseen ways. It's something I necessarily would like to see but it's going to happen regardless an it'll be interesting in the coming decade how that transforms, I can image there'll be some attempts to platform games in the real world but that'll just be plain weird.
i don't have space for a huge dome or 3d huge tv and such lol but shutter glasses are wow tech and the ps3 3d tv unit they have with 2 images in one!..........so many ideas......other company's should join in on this idea they bring because he is right its still not ready yet with the device but now knowing people who play bf3 should wait till its ready but help keep the interest in that this sy-fi future we all thought was far away can maybe be made sooner then never.
This is amazing, thanks so much for sharing this discussion! These are truly amazing times.
These guys are now on the same team.
The future is here.
(Sponsored by Facebook.)
nope
Palmer is only on trumps team now
Fascinating stuff. Really excited to see how far they take this. Nice to see John diving in 100%.
My favorite VR related panel of all times. After watching it the first time I rushed to back the Oculus Rift Kickstarter. Now both Carmack and Abrash works for the gentleman on the left. Amazing!
Todd was an excellent host for this talk. It's a shame that he left Id, he was a pretty cool front man.
Indeed. He's the most impressive VR enthusiast I've met on the MTBS3D VR forums. I remember his original posts on what became the Rift, going back to 2010. He realized what very few did - that all the technological pieces for VR are now available, and need only be compiled and refined - and had the skills and drive to actualize the idea. A single interested individual ended the VR winter. Reminds me of Larry Ellison starting Oracle after reading of an unrealized idea from IBM.
Only back then. Everything was a big unknown. The initial idea was to sell some 100 kits, to build yourself, on kickstarter. To change road of making several 1000s of premade ones is a challenging task. They really don't want to disappoint people. Now of course it's easy to see the success.
the guy on the left looks like hes 20 or something and he already knows so much shit and came up with the VR design by himself...amazing
Palmer Luckey
I believe it was about whether any OEM's had plans to make input devices specifically with this kind of hardware in mind.
I am willing to bet optical motion sensing will be the path (think kinect but with multiple viewpoints calculated together-- perhaps 2 cameras on adjacent 90 degree walls) that will work most naturally with this, for body movement/actions. With the right kind of receptors in peripherals, I think cheaper but high quality controls could be easily produced as well. Hall sensors
no, the other important abbreviation here is HMD which stands for head-mounted display
Finally we're getting VR. As a guy who's worked in 3D, as well as played Doom 1 and all that.. this stuff is exciting to see.
Man this and LEAP motion are the two things I'm looking forward to most in technological advancements but just the thought to using them both in one game just blows my mind.
2 layer oled screens on a motor for the depth with leap eye tracking on a head mount maybe one neuro sensor with the acceleration
Man I was just thinking of it being on the desk but that sounds even better! I doubt they'd ever sell em together because of the price but even just having a simple mount for it on the hmd would be awesome.
no you won't. the way I figure it works best, is having the rotation from the neck down controlled by the analog stick (with the notable exceptions as leaning etc), leaving the head to spin inside the limits that come naturally
Wondering if this video was recently shown in a courtroom
Will be interesting to see how VR and AR will stand in terms of the actual content creation, and actually what disciplines will use which system. I think programming and such will probably find a great use for VR to visualize their code and rest their eyes, but the 2d and sculpt sections of the art department will probably refrain from VR in favor of AR until you can somehow implement your own gestures and limbs to a sufficiently high degree...
I found the stuff about possibly being able to have a virtual monitor with a much more comfortable focal distance very compelling.
I sit at my computer for hours on end I can feel my eyes getting worse and worse as they become used to only focusing on one relatively close distance and very rarely looking at anything further away.
I think my eyes and the muscles are actually deteriorating as a result of this.
So, this kind of virtual monitor idea sounds very good to me.
... and now, they're both working together formally again. Hmmm. ;)
Dat Oculus dream team seriously. My confidence has raised since the news broke with FB buyout.
iratelobster Finaly another person who understands that the buyout is a good thing! So many people overreact... The rift is going to be so increadible now!
thank you Id for sharing with the community :)
agreed. The only option thats been available for years to track head movement at least is TrackIR, and that works wonderfully if it's supported.
This has much more potential obviously and will be every MechWarrior fan's wet dream, no doubt. lol
We are in the midst of a new era.
Be excited.
He is very Luckey to get in touch with greatest developers, because only in collab with such people he will be able to take VR systems to the next level, instead of just making something you can wear on your head and possibly watch games on.
The main problem with shutter glasses is it chops the framerate in half to 60hz in each eye. Carmack knows this and from what i head these don't chop the framerate in half.
I want the Rift for ArmA3 and my flight sims. This is going to be brilliant!
Michael Abrash is the man. After reading his book "Computer graphics black book" he is my idol. :)
yeah attaching a LEAP to the HMD, looking down at your arms/hands, could be a perfect setup.
Thank you for the upload! Now I just need to clear 62m in my schedule...
oh man i want to fast forward a couple of years when all this cool stuff will be here. i cant wait. these new consoles better be looking at this and how they can use it or they will be missing the train.
Be assured they´ve considered every option.
Michael Abrash really loves his AR.
I agree that the kickstarter is for hackers/hardcore hardware R&D types, but I can't wait for this sort of thing to be perfected and adopted in the consumer market. AR is cool, Google Glass etc, but I've been waiting for a real, solid VR gaming experience my entire life, and for the first time I feel like it's technologically within our grasp. It's not going to be quite like plugging into the Matrix with the first hardware revision but think of the new genres of games/instructional tools!
Imagine pairing this with a kinect so that you can crouch, jump, etc...
Almost! I actually played a hardware accelerated version of quake (VQuake) that predates GLQuake and used the Rendition Verite' chipset.. Man the difference in quality was so astounding with a dedicated card.. and then applying the transparent water patches to all the bsp's to get nice see-through water as well (but you couldnt cheat and see players underneath, which was strange and chaotic and funny at times. Man I miss Quake! Cheers to all the gamers out there who realize where it started!
Hey John, i wanted to stop and look around inside RAGE, and enjoy the views, and all i got was MUDDY textures
They are currently working on API for Rift, so every possible engine (including Unity, which is like the top engine for indies to work with) could support it. So if you are indie, just wait until Unity will make an official statement that they support that thing, and after that - make great games for VR. Good luck.
What's funny is I became obsessed with 3d displays and HMDs when I saw Avatar, and after trying a $200 dollar Zalman I bought I just wanted my peripheral vision immersed in the display. So I took a giant magnifying lens from the drafting table used for crafts and strapped it to my face, then i used a towel to line the edges to block any light. I would then get close to my 30 inch cinema display at 2560 x 1600 and it was a very strange experience. It sort of worked, but it was very uncomfortable.
as long as this unit is not wireless you probably need to keep track of weird statistics like how many consecutive "left" turns you make in a game for the wires not to curl up too much.
I think HL3 has been delayed in order to showcase a new way of playing games, and I think this may delay it more and may be integrated with it. Or they may wipe the slate and start over for the Oculus or something related. I wouldn't be too surprised. It would justify the hype for a lot of people.
That's because he's the one who started this entire thing. So yeah, he has every right to talk.
beau travail.
Razer Hydra would be closest thing i know of, but there is without a doubt a lot of software to make Move and Kinect work on PC.
What was said during the blackout @ 42 min:
Abrash: "...which reminds me of the other thing that's gonna happen and evolve really quickly over the next few years, which is input technology. Cause you're not gonna be sitting there with a game controller five years from now doing this..."
Luckey: "That's just something we're doing for the devkit because it's proven tech, we don't have to make it; and, developers are really gonna want to experiment with those new forms of input via Kinect, or..."
Lets hope so.
You could say that the Razor Hydra is such a thing.
@36:36 LOL "I think 'lower-level' means something different to you than it does to us."
I can't wait for the consumer version the Rift!!!
Bingo. the problem's not resolution (since the resolution on the Rift is way ahead of anything else on the market for the price anyway). the biggest problem's always been output lag.
Uhh, John Carmack *_* *Listens everything he says in awe*
It took about 10 years, but we finally have displays with no screen door effect lol. Carmack pretty much saved the industry with his quest to make VR mobile. Its a shame to see the hardware held back now by bad software. Its pretty clear now, that the Meta team put the cart before the horse. The Oculus GO offered a pretty coherent VR experience, but the Meta team had to retcon it in favor of the upcoming Metaverse; which we now know looks like Roblox...
I am the Universe. I control everything by being everything at once. I entangle with myself and I am omnipresent over time. I can traverse all known matter and even other universes and merge into one giant presence. I am God.
The story of id would make a great film.
About letting people think they are walking in VR, use a harness to hang from the ceiling.
Heck I bought a Voodoo 3D for almost twice the money of the Oculus Rift back when GLQuake was just an alpha! =P
I remember not getting the card before the weekly LAN we used to have (~50 people every Saturday in a small town in the North of Sweden) and dropping the software Opengl.dll Windows used for the pipe screen saver just to see how it would look. Only at 5 seconds per frame =P
27:30 awesome nerd anecdotes start. Love it.
Check out the Razer Hydra.
No John Carmack is the John Carmack of programming. Nobody can surpass him!
skyrim already has a working mod for it, so im sure that someone will make a mod for fallout 3/new vegas closer to the time of the consumer release, and future fallouts will hopefully have rift support from the get-go.
Imagine leaning around corners in a stealth game like Dishonored!! This will be epic
John Carmack is the John Lennon of programming.
Palmer Luckey inspires me.
Awesome watch.
Games really do Push tech and popularize tech. I'm a Gamer and also Love 3D and own a 3Dtv and love 3D gaming. VR is only the natural evolution of 3D and i'm ready for that too. Hoping Nex Gen has native 3D support.
Yeah, is there any particular reason why triangulation via infrared emission and reception won't work?
Palmer's casual clothing choice makes me like him
I'll buy one :D
So did you buy one?
Argh... Does anyone know the name of the two instrumentals that play during the beginning and end of the keynote, or were they pieces commissioned specifically for these YT videos (in which case, I'll never get to listen to them in their full glory D:).
That's because he's the only one who actually makes the damn thing. The other guys just support it.
anyone know why it blacked out around 42 ish minutes?
I bet Carmack never imagined he'd be working for the guy to his right.
He doesn't. Carmack is the Chief Technical Officer of Oculus and Abrash is the Chief Scientist. Generally in those roles they would be peers both reporting to the CEO.
the cost might be a bit too high for some.
To me it seems like they just want the Rift to the get ball rolling on GOOD head mounted displays for gaming, low latency, fast response times, accuracy etc, that is why the resolution isn't very important now, it's also about getting developers accustomed to making a game using the tech.
The PS4 could even run this without stereoscopic if they get good parallax working. It would be great if the PS4 could have a stereoscopic accelerator add-on.
4 people who viewed this have no idea
the guy on the right is a living god on earth
Mixed message. Rift is for developers, but comes bundled with Doom BFG...?
"lower level probably means something different to you than it does to us" I lol'd
0:20:44 Well Rumors are going around that MS is already working on their own AR glasses. Code name "Fortaleza".
Do not confuse Augmented Reality with Virtual Reality.
PALMER YAY,
When is the keynote going to be uploaded
About tracking, why not using some clever AI to filter the sensor data? Kind of what the google card does.
Why isn't this uploaded to the QuakeCon2012 YT account? Did someone else take it?
And Tron!
how is VR more needed than AR ?
And what is VR a solution for IN CONTRAST to AR ?
3 geniuses .... I can't take it.
+Sepharite 2 and a half... Yea yea Palmer is skilled but he doesnt see the world in math like the masters
Ahhh, Gabe's cool.
Around 36:35 after Todd's question.
I think your right, he's wrong. Augmented reality is literally just in its infancy, an I think Augmented reality will blend more an more with virtual reality in the future in unseen ways. It's something I necessarily would like to see but it's going to happen regardless an it'll be interesting in the coming decade how that transforms, I can image there'll be some attempts to platform games in the real world but that'll just be plain weird.
i don't have space for a huge dome or 3d huge tv and such lol but shutter glasses are wow tech and the ps3 3d tv unit they have with 2 images in one!..........so many ideas......other company's should join in on this idea they bring because he is right its still not ready yet with the device but now knowing people who play bf3 should wait till its ready but help keep the interest in that this sy-fi future we all thought was far away can maybe be made sooner then never.
he IS about 20...
P.s did someone put dog poo on the mic? that interviewee freaked out
The press said all this when DOOM first shipped.
You don't say.
"Gabe's cool..."
It's because he created an anti-aging firmware.
someone should make an engine for the thing and start with making games from tht engine like how ppl make simple but fun games from the source engine
Hmm even their jokes take time to sink in. Awesome.
57:00 "Wizardly sorcerer gestures"