So does that make him Captain America or Nick Fury? The only way to know would be to ask Quinn if he has America's a**. If yes, then he shall be crowned the official Dune Steve Rogers!
I really liked the detail where the Bene Gesserit sisters were practicing their exercises by the pool of water. They were harmonizing with their chants to create a specific waves in the pool. Amazing demonstration of control.
Great job all. A lot of fun hearing everyone's thoughts on Dune Prophecy but also the other Dune books. Looking forward to more as the season progresses.
@ It feels like HBO promised the actors from RBW that they would cast them in big future projects, the actors that played robot parents are in House Of The Dragon, Travis in Dune series lol idk.
@@MarkSide_ Which is sad because Abubakar Salim and Amanda Collin were lead actors for two seasons and they deserve so much better than being secondary/tertiary characters in HotD. Amanda was in two short scenes and Abu did as well as he could but wasn't used properly. Tragic, HotD needs to vastly improve, but i have decent hopes for Dune Prophecy at least. Travis' character is intriguing here
> How to pitch Heretics to HBO execs I mean, one can just mention that one of the main forces in the story is a sisterhood that controls men through sex.
You guys should do a regular podcast/episodes like this, just talking about general books you guys are reading or shows you're watching or whatever. Like Quinn said, not many of my friends can talk about these types of media at this level, so its great to hear other people talk about this stuff at length. I love the solo content but the group dynamic is great.
Thing I noticed with this Desmond character is that he completed 12 tours on Arrakis but does not have Blue within Blue eyes?!? 🤔 He's has to be a Ghola. 🤨
I'm wondering if maybe it's even Erasmus. We assume he's human throughout, and at the end we meet the man he's teaching to be the creator of the first mentat school
Desmond Hart’s “power” is the same mechanical power that causes the person to experience the intense burning pain inside the box during the Gom Jabar test. Mohiam has a quote insinuating that it’s a technology known only to the Bene Gesserit and is sought after by their enemies
I was just listening to God Emperor of Dune and heard something interesting at the beginning of Chapter 29 after Leto’s entry. It mentions a square of black cloth being used by RM Antioch to imprint a message onto the nerve receptors of an acolyte’s eyes to be later deciphered by someone from the chapterhouse. Caveat, the square was stated to be no more than 10mm/side and no more than 3mm thick -soooo my excitement probably got the best of me
Based on the fact Javicco Corrino is an adult here, this series seems like a direct sequel to the "Great Schools of Dune" trilogy. At the end of that, Roderick Corrino (Javicco's father) sat the throne. Also, since Vorian Atreides seemingly escaped Valya and Tula's assassination attempts, hopefully he makes and appearance here. That would make things interesting and it would be cool to see him connect with Willem's descendents. There at least needs to be a call back to Tula Harkonnen and Orry Atreides' entanglement. I can already tell from the first episode that this is grounded firmly in BH prequel lore, so they might as well run with it. To that end, Desmond's ability may be associated with the Sorceresses of Rossak. They used telekinetic powers to fry Cymek brains.
This was such a magnificent group and absolutely wonderful conversation, Quinn! This should be a regular show. Your brains together are brilliant and marvelously entertaining. Thanks so much for all your hard work. Liked and shared. Godspeed.
I definitely agree that Frank expanded the universe while Brian shrunk it. Just having the same Houses from Dune be the main focus of a story that takes place 10,000 years in the past makes the universe feel so small. In Dune, the Atreides are portrayed as a rising power. Their House is old but they are only recently growing in power. A big theme in the book is about how quickly power can shift in the Imperium, and there is the strong implication that Houses rise and fall all the time. And you have the Bene Gesserit themselves manipulating the politics of the Imperium, raising up some and casting down others. Would it have really been that hard for them to come up with some new Houses or even new factions that are no longer part of the Imperium? The Houses that exist in Dune could be remnants or amalgamations of ancient Houses that no longer exist. They could deal with the period of time when humanity tried to expand before the creation of Navigators. They would shift from where only the bravest and most foolhardy are willing to explore since folding space risked death towards domination by the Guild, offering people safety and comfort in exchange for giving up control to the Guild's monopoly.
I couldn’t put my finger on what bothered me about the show, but you nailed it. Haven’t read the son’s expanded universe but after watching this, no chance I read those books. However, the show isn’t a bad portrayal of the universe so I’ll keep watching
Yeah 10,000 years is such an insane length of time. Having that past so closely resemble Paul's time is so absurd on so many levels It's not a crime to be a bad writer or whatever but Brian's contributions to his father's work are almost universally incongruent
hm yea i definitely agree that there should have been other houses involved 10,000 years before the atreides rose. if they wanted to reference the atreides family, they could mention them further down the line, like way down the breeding program where the sisters start to look outside the major factions. i do like the show though and it seems like it's a massive improvement upon brian's work. i mean, the show could make it so that even though the bloodlines are always shifting, they manipulate the politics so that the powerful family names remain the same
Houses should also split at some point - that's what royal families do in the real world. The Harkonnen - Atreides feud would make much more sense as two factions of the same original house embroiled in a war of succession to me.
This was a GREAT podcast, and you should all get together again and talk about other things. My only criticism is that from time to time Nerd Cookies volume level jumped up (or maybe the rest of you all got quieter), and it was a bit of a jump scare. But you all had really interesting things to say, and you achieved that special podcast level where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, working from each other's ideas. I really hope you do it again.
The speed with which I went to watch the first episode so I can watch this! A bit bummed to have missed out on the livestream. But exited to catch up now! I hope this will be a weekly thing❤ Huge fan of yours and the imposter rapscallion Alt Shift X! Also happy to check out the other creators you invited on this panel! Thanks Quinn🎉
Damn, I was going through the Dune Wiki today and Quinn and Nerdcookies both have videos linked on pages for more information on subjects. You know you are Superfan when a wiki cites and links your video on a subject.
Brian disfiguring his Father's work for his own vanity shouldn't surprise me but it is quite shocking that he would prefer his slop to get adapted in his way instead of allowing them to adapt Frank's books
The voice and glowing eyes in the visions - it might be even more obvious: 'We look down so many avenues of the past . . . but only feminine avenues". Her voice took on a note of sadness. "Yet, there's a place where no Truthsayer can see. We are repelled by it, terrorized . . . " ' The other thought to be mindful of is that the Bene Gesserit aren't really good nor noble. They were part of the problem by the time of Paul and Leto II. The reason they see the tyrant staring back at them, if they look where they dare not, is because their own actions lead to Leto II. The Golden Path, as horrific as it is, is the only thread to get humanity out of the mess of the singlular thread that has been woven, by the Bene Gesserit, leading upto the first Dune book. Leto II is only inevitable because they made him inevitable, The Golden Path becomes the only choice because they removed the possible choices that could have made it unnecessary.
5:15 My first thought, when Desmond Hart was "grilling" the Richese boy, was the words of Gaius Hellen Mohiam to Paul Atreides after the box-test: "Pain by nerve induction".
I like that the visions have more visual imagination than what we got in the Villeneuve movies. In the movies it's just Paul getting blinded by the sun.
This was a really good way for me to gradually get excited about Dune Prophecy. ("At a certain point, you realize you'd rather just be talking about Frank Herbert.") YES, but also maybe we're in for a good ride from the best swing at GoTinSpace
My hope is after messiah, they adapt the later books into TV shows, or even maybe make it one show I guess ? Idk if that would work but either way the later books need probably at least 8 hours a piece to flesh out. Think HBO could do it if they got a proper show runner. I’m reading Heretics at the moment, but know for a fact Children and God emperor need to be pretty long. Children less long I suppose.
I agree with you on the night club scene. I've read no books, but that scene took me out of the show and made me not like the Princess. I would have respected her more if she would have just hooked up with her trainer at home. Clearly nobody cared that they were flirting during their training sessions. Also, it didn't make sense to me that a princess and a bene gesserit candidate would be frequenting that particular club, if such places even existed in that universe.
I agree with Quinn on the Desmond Hart ghola theory. Facedancers seem like more of an advancement or evolution. And Desmond could be a ghola that was able to have some memory, but is not consistent or focused. He could be the very reason that the BT wanted to create a ghola with perfect memory. Just a theory. Can’t wait to see how they explain Desmond in the show.
1:23:23 I suspect that the reason the writers chose the burning death for the child was to make it look like a Bene Gesserit had done it. The emperor might connect Prewut's death with Kasha's, conclude that the BGs did it, and go to war against them...or maybe just a faction of them?
I love hearing your ideas and theories, it's made me brush up on my Dune lore. One thing I do not like about the show, particularly in the opening scenes before the time jump, are the very obvious references to Denis Villeneuve's films. While it's fine to establish continuity between canon and adaptation, this attempt seems like they are screaming "this is Dune like the Dune movies!" in your face. Like the training scene before the time jump, which is obviously intended as a replica of Paul and Gurney's training scene in the DV film.This show takes place 10,000 years before the events of the main Dune timeline from Frank Herbert's novels, so we should see only subtle hints of how technology, ideas, societies become the Dune world of the main timeline. I think the show runners are underestimating how much 10,000 years is in terms of time, and how long that is, even in this universe where technology is banned. Just look at our history and our technological development, between the invention of the wheel in 4,000 BC ish to the 1400s. The leap in technology was huge, considering those years were pre-electricity. Something similar should apply to Dune and to this adaptation of Dune to make it believable. I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer a crazy but believable and immersive imagined world (like Dune is) on screen rather than one that's visually trying to appeal to a certain established paradigm. The former is good storytelling, the latter is a marketing stunt. A nitpick on the Bene Gesserit here: if Valya is a Reverend Mother then she should be able to access the genetic memory of Raquella and see what Raquella foresaw on her deathbed, rather than relying on "blind obedience" based on what she thinks Raquella meant? Valya should have presience abilities stronger than Kesha, so couldn't she just go into a trace and see whether Kesha's visions were justified rather than trying to reign her in because it doesn't fit with her "grand plan". It seems the show contradicts the Dune lore a bit? This could be an early attempt to show an immature Bene Gesserit organization that matures into the Bene Gesserit we know with the Missionaria Protectiva and the Kwizatz Haderach, but it just makes Valya look more petty than anything else.
Loving the podcast and Quinn mentioning 1899. Such a great ending that opened up but didn't have viewership so they tanked it. After Dark, Netflix should have trusted them.
Weren’t the fremen supposed to get to arrakis like 7 thousand years later than when this show takes place? They were still slaves on salusa secundus as zensunni wanderers, at least that’s how I remeber it.
They're all zealots just different factions of zealots. Dorotea belonged to the 'Orthodox' Sisterhood and was hardcore anti-tech which it seems also included the breeding program.
Dune has no bar scenes. Dune needs no bar scenes. An opium den kind of thing would be more Dune than the generic electronic music club thing. It took me off too.
Quinn, I thought that after the 'Butlerian Jihad,' the Atreides ancestor acknowledged that the Harkonnen did NOT betray, or at least made up for any betrayal in heroism during the final battle?
I also want to add I strongly feel the story of Paul Atreides is just a symbolic retelling of William the Conqueror, Calidan being Normandy, the empire being Britain, if you know William the Conquer's story you would for sure see the symbolism, from him being a bastard technically but also legitimate, the son of a concubine who was the love of his father, down to Feyd being the preferred person by the empire who in my opinion is symbolic of the institute of the holy Roman empire and the Catholic Church....and their choice over William was Harold and in Dune the empire wanted Feyd. Also Desmond's clothes give off big Pope vibes, white and gold almost.
It seems like it would take a long time to set up the empire/houses. You’d also expect that the universe would be war torn after they defeated the thinking machines.. but there is little evidence or markers of what a society would be faced with immediately after over turning the functions and control over their know universe. I have less issue with the relatively unchanged society by the time we meet Paul than I do with where they are at now, almost immediately after thinking machines ruled everything.
My biggest concern is, if this will be another Dune-adaptation that leaves out the spacing guild. Someone unfamiliar with the lore might ask, whats the fuss with the spice melange is all about? Why is Arrakis so important? Without mentioning that space travel entirely depends on guild navigators and their need for spice melange, the story is not only incomplete, but barely comprehensible.
Like a sensible person, I have not read Brian Herbert books, other than reading and then forgetting the first hundred pages of one of them as fast as possible. HOWEVER. Space travel was possible during the age of the machines, and then became very difficult and dangerous when the machines were no longer there to do the task of the navigators, which was to find a safe route through all the possible dangers. I assume they did so via rapid calculation and expansive memory of past disasters, and the ability to react more quickly than humans. The way I read the absence of the spacing guild is that it doesn't really exist yet. At this time, space travel remains dangerous, perhaps as dangerous as early air travel, or as dangerous as crossing the Atlantic in the 1600s. Possible, but gruelling and not something to be done without good reason and making your will first. The spacing guild is probably a bunch of degens in a basement somewhere right now, doing stupid amounts of spice and noticing they seem to be starting to develop prescience. Over generations, this will evolve and grow, and at some point they will realize they can do whatever it is navigators do, someone will start a spaceship transport company, and suddenly start delivering safe travel like nothing since the machines, and the guild is born.... of course, Brian Herbert may contradict all this head canon, but I do not care because his books are a travesty and an insult to the memory of his father. I mean dude, get that bag, but try not to do it by pissing all over dads art.
@@charlesparr1611 Thanks for your answer. Yet, Mark Strong's emperor says something to the effect of "if i dont deliver on the spice quota, the great houses feed me to the worm". So, given your assumption, the guild does not exist yet, the spice melange must already have a very important benefit, that makes it such a valuable economic commodity. "The spice extends life, the spice expands consciousness,..." - that's the exposition from the Lynch movie (the only one who understood the importance of the guild). I have yet to hear those words in this series, as well as in Denis' movies. It is not explained what exactly the spice does and why everybody wants it. In Denis' movies the melange is only described as a recreational psychoactive drug, that gives Paul visions of possible outcomes of the future. IIRC its use in space travel is not mentioned. From Denis' movies only, one can get the impression, Dune is about an interstellar feudal society of drug addicts, fighting for the prerogative to harvest their favourite dope from a desert planet. And everybody is secretly influenced by the BG. If you limit Dune to this, that would be a rather trivial story. All i can say to the showrunners is: Give us the guild! Give us CHOAM! If they want new fans for the Duniverse, the new fans need to be able to understand whats really going on. The problem here is the focus on the BG-witches and their influence on the houses, because it is only one aspect a much grander story. But i still have hope for the guild to show up - in the trailers i spotted a ship that looks very similar to a guild highliner.
The Denis film does mention extending life and space travel at the start, so it is set that it's not just a psychoactive drug. But I don't think the spacing guild is further developed any more than that, probably in purpose to get to Paul's story asap ( like the book).
I can understand the thing about feeling like they're forcing current dune lure into the show by referencing The date before Paul's birth. But this is Dune and all of the dates and events are based around before or after when Paul was born. Paul is the Jesus of the universe
I like how after Nerdcookies leaves its 45 minutes of shitting on brain herbet then 45 minutes of waxing poetic about GEOD. This is the content i crave
That’s where he was from- raised by wolves was good. He is literally the same character, and yes they should have started the story at the point where he is eaten by the worm.
Quinn, sorry for the tone in my comment about your book regarding the wait time. I was a little mad that day. I appreciate you, and I'm looking forward to it
Brilliant panel. I agree with Quinn about the Desmond ghola theory although the Bene Gesserit/Sorceresses of Rossak theories are also interesting. Definitely agree about the nightclub scene/Ynez x Keiran scenes feeling out of place but overall a solid 8/10.
In a world that has samuta (a drug that pairs a drug with music), I feel that that whole night club sequence was a huge miss. Add some dialog to explain what’s going on and… well, do some sexposition, HBO.
@@charlesparr1611 Indeed. Semuta music is very specifically described, and I think they want to keep unused until the next movie, where I hope they do use it.
Great stuff guys, it's great to just hear people of culture talking isnt it ? Hasn't anyone noticed that Desmond's spine starys bleeding by the end of the episode ? Would you please check it out, that seems to point ixian implants. So are his fingers, which have been given a lot of camera focus, theyr tips were cut.
There is a very blatant and valid reason in 40k for why it stayed the same for 10000 years. The whole Imperium is limited by religious dogmas against scientific and philosophical advancements.
Im curious who the baby was at the beginning when describing the motives of the birthing of great leaders. I wonder if Desmond is a results of a male born of their genetic process and him having connection to the worm as it stood over him and crashing down not killing him(gave me paul vibes)plus remember paul started to evolve when he first took in a breath of the spice. I think Desmond being buried in the sand(large amounts of spice) awoken him. I think he's the first example of if a man became awoken. Almost anyone with the proper bloodline can be awoken in some way depending on the circumstances in the Dune world. But usually a connection to spice
This mini-series is a meditation on truth vs perception. The Emperor watches a video of the lone survivor of a spice excavator war party getting swallowed by a worm. 🐛 Is that reality? He claims that a gun ship of someone(s) within the Imperium stole the spice. Is the image doctored up to say one thing or the other? Hard to say who is telling “the truth.” Thing about perception is how it can be manipulated to become a self-fulfilling prophecy. I don’t think this is for casual fans so much as Dune readers. It sets in motion how the Imperium is really a fragile thing.
Okay here's what I think's going on. The Ixians have watched (like they always do) the goings on in the galaxy and see the Bene Jesuit quietly expanding their power and in an effort to counter that and gain their own power (like they always do) they have created the Golas to be a sleeper assassins and the Sisters will figure it out by the end of the season, they will use influence to make it look like the Ixians were the bad guys all along, hiding their secret power and influence. The universe has never liked the dirty Ixians, this maybe the story of why.
I love the freudian slip of 'bene jesuit'.... Was that deliberate or an incredibly fantastic instance of unexpectedly pertinent autocorrect? The problem with the Ghola theories is that, as we know, they have never been able to give Ghola the memories of the person copied. When you consider it would be useless to have an identical copy that was childishly simple to trip up with the blandest question about their past, it stops making sense. They are still trying to solve the memory issue tens of thousands of years after this story takes place, and eventually (sort of) manage it with one of the Duncan Idaho Ghola serving Leto II, but even then the result is not a copy of the original, but a sort of hybrid consciousness. I always felt this was Frank trying to discuss nature vs nurture...
@charlesparr1611 yeah I agree there's a memory issue but I don't necessarily think this is a gola, I think it's an iteration on the path too..if I'm right and the writers are good, there will be some big flaw revealed about about this one to explain why it took 10k years to get back to making them. Or maybe after being caught the emperor imposes some sanctions on Ix.. But I think it's something along that vein earlier in technology. I think the xians have probably installed something in his brain almost like a computer. It works with his memories but then it kind of gives him underlying tasks or orders. He may think he's hearing it from God. And I actually always read it as Jesuit when I read it, so yeah I inadvertently used a j instead of a g ooops.
Knowing we've only got five episodes left, I just don't know how much deeper they can go with the story. There's only so much intrigue and nuance and side stories that can go on in five episodes. So I think the bulk of the stories going to center around the Ixian's plot to rid the galaxy of the truth sayers
Quinn, please write the official ending of Frank Herbert's masterpiece. I always feel your vision is the closest we can get to what Frank intended. And you should be on the show's writing team! :)
Despite what some of us may feel about Brian Herbert's contributions to the Dune saga, and subsequent connection that the showrunners have with those stories. I'm just very excited that it's at least generating buzz and conversation around Dune! 🙏🏻
Aren't Ixians related to House Richese, why would they assassinate the Richese heir?! And how far back does Bene Tleilaxu go? Aren't all these organizations also fresh outcomes of The Machine Wars? I kind of doubt the Tleilaxu because it'll spoil a major plot device in later Dune IP, especially needed for films.
No. That was the "Atreides Battle Language" (well they did look alike loll, but in the books, every military has its own hand language for battle, and the Bene Gesserit would never teach their secret code to random soldiers)
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 The Sci-Fi channel series Children of Dune was excellent, they had this scene between Mohiam and Irulan, I'm assuming you're talking about that? I love that scene. The way they talked about important political matters out loud, while conspiring treason by gesturing subtlety to one another... Listening to the actresses speak while reading completely different subtitles below the screen was really interesting.
I feel like Desmond’s line about being controlled by thinking machines may be an attempt to blend the canons somewhat. Like yeah there’s a whole terminator showdown but maybe that was an escalation after humanity’s revolt against the thinking machines in the original sense. Trying to keep Brian happy while also trying to feed FH Dune fans as well? Idk. I’m kinda hopeful in that regard for now. Especially since episode two has given me a lot of heretics/Chapterhouse vibes almost making me think the showrunner potentially wanted to work with those properties but couldn’t bc of timeline concerns
I don't think Emperor Strong is *useless*. He's careful, and likes to consider all the angles before he takes action. Now he's acquired a deniable hitman, which is a useful asset to have.
There is literally no reason to assume they’ve dismissed Frank’s interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad. “The thinking machines that had enslaved them” could mean either the Terminator scenario in Brian’s books, or the over dependence in Frank’s books (and the way Desmond Hart describes them leans towards the latter). I think the creators have done a good job keeping the past just vague enough to keep both parties happy. TLDR: Chill 😂 just enjoy the show for what it is. Also, I’m not surprised the writing for the younger and older characters feels different. They are literally different people, of course they would sound different 😂
No. Leto II makes it clear on numerous occasions that the Thinking Machines had caused humans to atrophy mentally. They were enslaved by decadence and apathy and were unaware of their own decline until it was too late. Leto II states specifically that it was their reliance on the Thinking Machines that enslaved them, not some cheap arse robot from a late 1960s Dr. Who episode! The Butleroan Jihad was an urising against the Thinking Machines, there is no mention of the Machines rising up against humanity. They were merely doing what HUMANS had programmed them to do and..... Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh! It drives me mental that the author's own son didn't f***ing read his father's books! Sorry, but I don't enjoy pieces of s**t!
I’m someone who’s never read the books but I love the Denis Villenuev films and I watch basically all of Quinn’s and nerd cookies dune videos. For me the idea that the way the bene gesserit operate/look and the overall look of the world have only incrementally progressed over the span of 10,000 years feels extremely stupid
As far as the butlarian jihad goes, i always figured the books started when the thinking machines themselves were able to take control when Omnius was activated. Maybe it doesn’t bother me as much because it helps cement that this is our potential future. And it kinda follows the oppressed always copied the oppressor.
My theory is Desmond can twitch his eye and somehow cause people to burn. Because the only time he affects kasha was in the throne room and when kasha begins to burn is at the same time when the prince is burned as well. Desmond had twitched his eye in both interactions With those characters
> not too many changes in technology in 10000 years However, God-Emperor did make a point that Duncan Idaho from 3500 years back was absolutely hopeless against Moneo. So, I guess it's all about human changes?
I too hated the nightclub scene, but I think it was there to show that something is up with the sword master guy, there was obviously something going on between him and the bartender, and I think that's the only reason that scene exists. Is the sword master part of the insurgency?
My partner who never touched the books but got dragged into the movies both times for the dune movies loved the first epp and followed along with me in excitement
In the 1984 Dune Movie there's the scene where the Navigator tells Shaddam..."Many machines on Ix, new machines." Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV: Oh, yes? Guild Navigator: Not as good as those on Richese.. I've always taken that to mean a threat toward Shaddam..what does everyone else think?
What is the timeline on the creation of the Sardaukar? I've read/seen different versions of their creation and connection to the emporer. Are there Sardaukar at this point in time in the show?
My thought is, they kept some of the things looking very close to the movies just to help people feel more connected to the world that they were already familiar with. Perhaps they could’ve chosen a different way of connecting it, but this was their choice.
The show-runners have proven they are transcending the weak source material. I agree with all the criticisms but the good parts were more than good enough to outweigh them at least a couple times over for me.
Oh damn Quinn done assembled the Avengers of Dune😂
Actually sounds like a book title 😂
@VektusAlvoraan 😆
I was gonna say the same thing!
So does that make him Captain America or Nick Fury?
The only way to know would be to ask Quinn if he has America's a**. If yes, then he shall be crowned the official Dune Steve Rogers!
nailed it
I really liked the detail where the Bene Gesserit sisters were practicing their exercises by the pool of water. They were harmonizing with their chants to create a specific waves in the pool. Amazing demonstration of control.
Great job all. A lot of fun hearing everyone's thoughts on Dune Prophecy but also the other Dune books. Looking forward to more as the season progresses.
Yeah, I was hooked in the first 20 minutes. Some of it is not perfect, but it's exactly the kind of imperfect I love the best.
Dune: Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants.
Finally, positive and healthy female representation in the Duniverse!
I have thought this exact thing everytime they say Dune Sisterhood. Every time
It feels like Travis Fimmel is still playing the same character from Raised By Wolves, he’s even dress the same.
the same character as the late season/drug-addicted Ragnar from Vikings basically. but he does play that role well and it's hard not to enjoy him
you are both so right
@ It feels like HBO promised the actors from RBW that they would cast them in big future projects, the actors that played robot parents are in House Of The Dragon, Travis in Dune series lol idk.
@@MarkSide_ Which is sad because Abubakar Salim and Amanda Collin were lead actors for two seasons and they deserve so much better than being secondary/tertiary characters in HotD. Amanda was in two short scenes and Abu did as well as he could but wasn't used properly. Tragic, HotD needs to vastly improve, but i have decent hopes for Dune Prophecy at least. Travis' character is intriguing here
@ I’ll be really surprise if they give Dune another season. We’ll find out
> How to pitch Heretics to HBO execs
I mean, one can just mention that one of the main forces in the story is a sisterhood that controls men through sex.
and there will be scene where a reverend mother argues with one of them about the positions of kamasutra and vaginal pulsations
I'm extremely glad to know Nerd Cookies isn't just an AI generated channel.
Thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of a human mind.😉
@@georgecisneros5281heh. Ive legit not watched her regularly/subscribed because I didn't want to reward a content farm.
Her voiceover is so good, I thought the same thing!
I know!! AI is getting so good out can fool missy people
She does sound like that lol
Alt shift x and nerd cookies are my most beloved channels (and yours) . Love seeing you together. I hope we get more collabs like this!
You guys should do a regular podcast/episodes like this, just talking about general books you guys are reading or shows you're watching or whatever. Like Quinn said, not many of my friends can talk about these types of media at this level, so its great to hear other people talk about this stuff at length. I love the solo content but the group dynamic is great.
Thing I noticed with this Desmond character is that he completed 12 tours on Arrakis but does not have Blue within Blue eyes?!? 🤔 He's has to be a Ghola. 🤨
you can hide spice addiction with colored contact lenses
Also it looked like he might’ve had ixian made eyes.
Do gholas even exist yet? Does the bene tleilax and their axolotl tanks even exist yet to create them?
I'm wondering if maybe it's even Erasmus. We assume he's human throughout, and at the end we meet the man he's teaching to be the creator of the first mentat school
Desmond Hart’s “power” is the same mechanical power that causes the person to experience the intense burning pain inside the box during the Gom Jabar test.
Mohiam has a quote insinuating that it’s a technology known only to the Bene Gesserit and is sought after by their enemies
LOVE this theory
Great panel, thank you for hosting this, Quinn!
I'm so glad to see all my favorite Dune youtubers discussing the new show together!🎉
I was just listening to God Emperor of Dune and heard something interesting at the beginning of Chapter 29 after Leto’s entry. It mentions a square of black cloth being used by RM Antioch to imprint a message onto the nerve receptors of an acolyte’s eyes to be later deciphered by someone from the chapterhouse.
Caveat, the square was stated to be no more than 10mm/side and no more than 3mm thick -soooo my excitement probably got the best of me
Based on the fact Javicco Corrino is an adult here, this series seems like a direct sequel to the "Great Schools of Dune" trilogy. At the end of that, Roderick Corrino (Javicco's father) sat the throne. Also, since Vorian Atreides seemingly escaped Valya and Tula's assassination attempts, hopefully he makes and appearance here. That would make things interesting and it would be cool to see him connect with Willem's descendents. There at least needs to be a call back to Tula Harkonnen and Orry Atreides' entanglement. I can already tell from the first episode that this is grounded firmly in BH prequel lore, so they might as well run with it. To that end, Desmond's ability may be associated with the Sorceresses of Rossak. They used telekinetic powers to fry Cymek brains.
Hadn't thought of the frying cymek theory -
This was such a magnificent group and absolutely wonderful conversation, Quinn! This should be a regular show. Your brains together are brilliant and marvelously entertaining.
Thanks so much for all your hard work.
Liked and shared.
Godspeed.
I definitely agree that Frank expanded the universe while Brian shrunk it.
Just having the same Houses from Dune be the main focus of a story that takes place 10,000 years in the past makes the universe feel so small. In Dune, the Atreides are portrayed as a rising power. Their House is old but they are only recently growing in power. A big theme in the book is about how quickly power can shift in the Imperium, and there is the strong implication that Houses rise and fall all the time. And you have the Bene Gesserit themselves manipulating the politics of the Imperium, raising up some and casting down others.
Would it have really been that hard for them to come up with some new Houses or even new factions that are no longer part of the Imperium? The Houses that exist in Dune could be remnants or amalgamations of ancient Houses that no longer exist. They could deal with the period of time when humanity tried to expand before the creation of Navigators. They would shift from where only the bravest and most foolhardy are willing to explore since folding space risked death towards domination by the Guild, offering people safety and comfort in exchange for giving up control to the Guild's monopoly.
I couldn’t put my finger on what bothered me about the show, but you nailed it. Haven’t read the son’s expanded universe but after watching this, no chance I read those books. However, the show isn’t a bad portrayal of the universe so I’ll keep watching
Yeah 10,000 years is such an insane length of time. Having that past so closely resemble Paul's time is so absurd on so many levels
It's not a crime to be a bad writer or whatever but Brian's contributions to his father's work are almost universally incongruent
Im not really bothered that much but your suggestion seems better. Like Odrade which is a new kind of family?
hm yea i definitely agree that there should have been other houses involved 10,000 years before the atreides rose. if they wanted to reference the atreides family, they could mention them further down the line, like way down the breeding program where the sisters start to look outside the major factions.
i do like the show though and it seems like it's a massive improvement upon brian's work. i mean, the show could make it so that even though the bloodlines are always shifting, they manipulate the politics so that the powerful family names remain the same
Houses should also split at some point - that's what royal families do in the real world. The Harkonnen - Atreides feud would make much more sense as two factions of the same original house embroiled in a war of succession to me.
Damn what a superstar mashup. Thanks for putting this together Quinn
The counsel of The GOATS
This was a GREAT podcast, and you should all get together again and talk about other things. My only criticism is that from time to time Nerd Cookies volume level jumped up (or maybe the rest of you all got quieter), and it was a bit of a jump scare. But you all had really interesting things to say, and you achieved that special podcast level where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, working from each other's ideas.
I really hope you do it again.
The guy in the beige shirt had a jump in volume as well that was very jarring.
The speed with which I went to watch the first episode so I can watch this! A bit bummed to have missed out on the livestream. But exited to catch up now! I hope this will be a weekly thing❤ Huge fan of yours and the imposter rapscallion Alt Shift X! Also happy to check out the other creators you invited on this panel! Thanks Quinn🎉
Also known as the greatest colab of all time
Damn, I was going through the Dune Wiki today and Quinn and Nerdcookies both have videos linked on pages for more information on subjects. You know you are Superfan when a wiki cites and links your video on a subject.
Brian disfiguring his Father's work for his own vanity shouldn't surprise me but it is quite shocking that he would prefer his slop to get adapted in his way instead of allowing them to adapt Frank's books
Alt shift face reveal looks a lot like his logo
The voice and glowing eyes in the visions - it might be even more obvious:
'We look down so many avenues of the past . . . but only feminine avenues". Her voice took on a note of sadness. "Yet, there's a place where no Truthsayer can see. We are repelled by it, terrorized . . . " '
The other thought to be mindful of is that the Bene Gesserit aren't really good nor noble. They were part of the problem by the time of Paul and Leto II. The reason they see the tyrant staring back at them, if they look where they dare not, is because their own actions lead to Leto II. The Golden Path, as horrific as it is, is the only thread to get humanity out of the mess of the singlular thread that has been woven, by the Bene Gesserit, leading upto the first Dune book. Leto II is only inevitable because they made him inevitable, The Golden Path becomes the only choice because they removed the possible choices that could have made it unnecessary.
5:15 My first thought, when Desmond Hart was "grilling" the Richese boy, was the words of Gaius Hellen Mohiam to Paul Atreides after the box-test: "Pain by nerve induction".
I like that the visions have more visual imagination than what we got in the Villeneuve movies. In the movies it's just Paul getting blinded by the sun.
This was a really good way for me to gradually get excited about Dune Prophecy. ("At a certain point, you realize you'd rather just be talking about Frank Herbert.") YES, but also maybe we're in for a good ride from the best swing at GoTinSpace
My hope is after messiah, they adapt the later books into TV shows, or even maybe make it one show I guess ? Idk if that would work but either way the later books need probably at least 8 hours a piece to flesh out. Think HBO could do it if they got a proper show runner. I’m reading Heretics at the moment, but know for a fact Children and God emperor need to be pretty long. Children less long I suppose.
I agree with you on the night club scene. I've read no books, but that scene took me out of the show and made me not like the Princess. I would have respected her more if she would have just hooked up with her trainer at home. Clearly nobody cared that they were flirting during their training sessions. Also, it didn't make sense to me that a princess and a bene gesserit candidate would be frequenting that particular club, if such places even existed in that universe.
I agree with Quinn on the Desmond Hart ghola theory. Facedancers seem like more of an advancement or evolution. And Desmond could be a ghola that was able to have some memory, but is not consistent or focused. He could be the very reason that the BT wanted to create a ghola with perfect memory. Just a theory.
Can’t wait to see how they explain Desmond in the show.
the closest we will get to the return of the alt shift x podcast
1:23:23 I suspect that the reason the writers chose the burning death for the child was to make it look like a Bene Gesserit had done it. The emperor might connect Prewut's death with Kasha's, conclude that the BGs did it, and go to war against them...or maybe just a faction of them?
Nice love the unexpected Book Of The New Sun shout out lol
Gene Wolfe does not get enough love
Gom jabbar is here 🙌🏽 ❤ For me, it was a solid start for the show.
I love hearing your ideas and theories, it's made me brush up on my Dune lore. One thing I do not like about the show, particularly in the opening scenes before the time jump, are the very obvious references to Denis Villeneuve's films. While it's fine to establish continuity between canon and adaptation, this attempt seems like they are screaming "this is Dune like the Dune movies!" in your face. Like the training scene before the time jump, which is obviously intended as a replica of Paul and Gurney's training scene in the DV film.This show takes place 10,000 years before the events of the main Dune timeline from Frank Herbert's novels, so we should see only subtle hints of how technology, ideas, societies become the Dune world of the main timeline. I think the show runners are underestimating how much 10,000 years is in terms of time, and how long that is, even in this universe where technology is banned. Just look at our history and our technological development, between the invention of the wheel in 4,000 BC ish to the 1400s. The leap in technology was huge, considering those years were pre-electricity. Something similar should apply to Dune and to this adaptation of Dune to make it believable. I guess what I'm saying is that I would prefer a crazy but believable and immersive imagined world (like Dune is) on screen rather than one that's visually trying to appeal to a certain established paradigm. The former is good storytelling, the latter is a marketing stunt.
A nitpick on the Bene Gesserit here: if Valya is a Reverend Mother then she should be able to access the genetic memory of Raquella and see what Raquella foresaw on her deathbed, rather than relying on "blind obedience" based on what she thinks Raquella meant? Valya should have presience abilities stronger than Kesha, so couldn't she just go into a trace and see whether Kesha's visions were justified rather than trying to reign her in because it doesn't fit with her "grand plan". It seems the show contradicts the Dune lore a bit? This could be an early attempt to show an immature Bene Gesserit organization that matures into the Bene Gesserit we know with the Missionaria Protectiva and the Kwizatz Haderach, but it just makes Valya look more petty than anything else.
Exactly, WHERE IS THE OTHER MEMORY?
I think Desmond is a Ghola but an imperfect prototype. This was 10,000 years before the Ghola was perfected
Loving the podcast and Quinn mentioning 1899. Such a great ending that opened up but didn't have viewership so they tanked it. After Dark, Netflix should have trusted them.
Weren’t the fremen supposed to get to arrakis like 7 thousand years later than when this show takes place?
They were still slaves on salusa secundus as zensunni wanderers, at least that’s how I remeber it.
Good point about the Main Character. New worlds need a POV character in the beginning. Luke for Star Wars, Bran for GOT,Paul for Dune.
"Witches be trippin." - Frank Herbert describing where prescience comes from
1:02:50 40k reference got me hyped!!!
I found it ironic that she called the other sisters of her order zealots when the main lady was the only true zealot shown
They're all zealots just different factions of zealots. Dorotea belonged to the 'Orthodox' Sisterhood and was hardcore anti-tech which it seems also included the breeding program.
Dune has no bar scenes. Dune needs no bar scenes. An opium den kind of thing would be more Dune than the generic electronic music club thing. It took me off too.
the key bump was good, the bar scene was not. Just have them doing drugs ahahah
“…this is not Harry Potter” 😂😂😂
Quinn, I thought that after the 'Butlerian Jihad,' the Atreides ancestor acknowledged that the Harkonnen did NOT betray, or at least made up for any betrayal in heroism during the final battle?
Then Abulurd happened. That was the disgrace they are talking about
I also want to add I strongly feel the story of Paul Atreides is just a symbolic retelling of William the Conqueror, Calidan being Normandy, the empire being Britain, if you know William the Conquer's story you would for sure see the symbolism, from him being a bastard technically but also legitimate, the son of a concubine who was the love of his father, down to Feyd being the preferred person by the empire who in my opinion is symbolic of the institute of the holy Roman empire and the Catholic Church....and their choice over William was Harold and in Dune the empire wanted Feyd. Also Desmond's clothes give off big Pope vibes, white and gold almost.
It seems like it would take a long time to set up the empire/houses. You’d also expect that the universe would be war torn after they defeated the thinking machines.. but there is little evidence or markers of what a society would be faced with immediately after over turning the functions and control over their know universe. I have less issue with the relatively unchanged society by the time we meet Paul than I do with where they are at now, almost immediately after thinking machines ruled everything.
@1:10:04 Didn't Count Fenring receive Bene Gesserit training?
Desmond is giving off major biblical Jonah vibes
My biggest concern is, if this will be another Dune-adaptation that leaves out the spacing guild. Someone unfamiliar with the lore might ask, whats the fuss with the spice melange is all about? Why is Arrakis so important? Without mentioning that space travel entirely depends on guild navigators and their need for spice melange, the story is not only incomplete, but barely comprehensible.
Like a sensible person, I have not read Brian Herbert books, other than reading and then forgetting the first hundred pages of one of them as fast as possible. HOWEVER. Space travel was possible during the age of the machines, and then became very difficult and dangerous when the machines were no longer there to do the task of the navigators, which was to find a safe route through all the possible dangers. I assume they did so via rapid calculation and expansive memory of past disasters, and the ability to react more quickly than humans. The way I read the absence of the spacing guild is that it doesn't really exist yet. At this time, space travel remains dangerous, perhaps as dangerous as early air travel, or as dangerous as crossing the Atlantic in the 1600s. Possible, but gruelling and not something to be done without good reason and making your will first. The spacing guild is probably a bunch of degens in a basement somewhere right now, doing stupid amounts of spice and noticing they seem to be starting to develop prescience. Over generations, this will evolve and grow, and at some point they will realize they can do whatever it is navigators do, someone will start a spaceship transport company, and suddenly start delivering safe travel like nothing since the machines, and the guild is born....
of course, Brian Herbert may contradict all this head canon, but I do not care because his books are a travesty and an insult to the memory of his father. I mean dude, get that bag, but try not to do it by pissing all over dads art.
@@charlesparr1611 Thanks for your answer. Yet, Mark Strong's emperor says something to the effect of "if i dont deliver on the spice quota, the great houses feed me to the worm". So, given your assumption, the guild does not exist yet, the spice melange must already have a very important benefit, that makes it such a valuable economic commodity.
"The spice extends life, the spice expands consciousness,..." - that's the exposition from the Lynch movie (the only one who understood the importance of the guild). I have yet to hear those words in this series, as well as in Denis' movies. It is not explained what exactly the spice does and why everybody wants it. In Denis' movies the melange is only described as a recreational psychoactive drug, that gives Paul visions of possible outcomes of the future. IIRC its use in space travel is not mentioned. From Denis' movies only, one can get the impression, Dune is about an interstellar feudal society of drug addicts, fighting for the prerogative to harvest their favourite dope from a desert planet. And everybody is secretly influenced by the BG. If you limit Dune to this, that would be a rather trivial story.
All i can say to the showrunners is: Give us the guild! Give us CHOAM! If they want new fans for the Duniverse, the new fans need to be able to understand whats really going on. The problem here is the focus on the BG-witches and their influence on the houses, because it is only one aspect a much grander story.
But i still have hope for the guild to show up - in the trailers i spotted a ship that looks very similar to a guild highliner.
The Denis film does mention extending life and space travel at the start, so it is set that it's not just a psychoactive drug. But I don't think the spacing guild is further developed any more than that, probably in purpose to get to Paul's story asap ( like the book).
I can understand the thing about feeling like they're forcing current dune lure into the show by referencing The date before Paul's birth. But this is Dune and all of the dates and events are based around before or after when Paul was born. Paul is the Jesus of the universe
I like how after Nerdcookies leaves its 45 minutes of shitting on brain herbet then 45 minutes of waxing poetic about GEOD. This is the content i crave
What about the Couple at the end of the post God Emperor that murabella and the ghola of Idaho get away from in the "no ship"?
Quinn and Altshift!?!?! Awesome
This is such an awesome cast! Just wanted to say that. Love y'all!
I forgot I watch football, listening to all of you.😂😂 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
That’s where he was from- raised by wolves was good. He is literally the same character, and yes they should have started the story at the point where he is eaten by the worm.
Quinn, sorry for the tone in my comment about your book regarding the wait time. I was a little mad that day. I appreciate you, and I'm looking forward to it
Brilliant panel. I agree with Quinn about the Desmond ghola theory although the Bene Gesserit/Sorceresses of Rossak theories are also interesting. Definitely agree about the nightclub scene/Ynez x Keiran scenes feeling out of place but overall a solid 8/10.
In a world that has samuta (a drug that pairs a drug with music), I feel that that whole night club sequence was a huge miss. Add some dialog to explain what’s going on and… well, do some sexposition, HBO.
TBF I cannot think of a single recreational drug that does not pair with music....
@@charlesparr1611
Indeed.
Semuta music is very specifically described, and I think they want to keep unused until the next movie, where I hope they do use it.
Great stuff guys, it's great to just hear people of culture talking isnt it ?
Hasn't anyone noticed that Desmond's spine starys bleeding by the end of the episode ?
Would you please check it out, that seems to point ixian implants. So are his fingers, which have been given a lot of camera focus, theyr tips were cut.
There is a very blatant and valid reason in 40k for why it stayed the same for 10000 years. The whole Imperium is limited by religious dogmas against scientific and philosophical advancements.
Im curious who the baby was at the beginning when describing the motives of the birthing of great leaders. I wonder if Desmond is a results of a male born of their genetic process and him having connection to the worm as it stood over him and crashing down not killing him(gave me paul vibes)plus remember paul started to evolve when he first took in a breath of the spice. I think Desmond being buried in the sand(large amounts of spice) awoken him. I think he's the first example of if a man became awoken. Almost anyone with the proper bloodline can be awoken in some way depending on the circumstances in the Dune world. But usually a connection to spice
This mini-series is a meditation on truth vs perception. The Emperor watches a video of the lone survivor of a spice excavator war party getting swallowed by a worm. 🐛 Is that reality? He claims that a gun ship of someone(s) within the Imperium stole the spice. Is the image doctored up to say one thing or the other? Hard to say who is telling “the truth.”
Thing about perception is how it can be manipulated to become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I don’t think this is for casual fans so much as Dune readers. It sets in motion how the Imperium is really a fragile thing.
Okay here's what I think's going on.
The Ixians have watched (like they always do) the goings on in the galaxy and see the Bene Jesuit quietly expanding their power and in an effort to counter that and gain their own power (like they always do) they have created the Golas to be a sleeper assassins and the Sisters will figure it out by the end of the season, they will use influence to make it look like the Ixians were the bad guys all along, hiding their secret power and influence. The universe has never liked the dirty Ixians, this maybe the story of why.
I love the freudian slip of 'bene jesuit'.... Was that deliberate or an incredibly fantastic instance of unexpectedly pertinent autocorrect?
The problem with the Ghola theories is that, as we know, they have never been able to give Ghola the memories of the person copied. When you consider it would be useless to have an identical copy that was childishly simple to trip up with the blandest question about their past, it stops making sense. They are still trying to solve the memory issue tens of thousands of years after this story takes place, and eventually (sort of) manage it with one of the Duncan Idaho Ghola serving Leto II, but even then the result is not a copy of the original, but a sort of hybrid consciousness. I always felt this was Frank trying to discuss nature vs nurture...
@charlesparr1611 yeah I agree there's a memory issue but I don't necessarily think this is a gola, I think it's an iteration on the path too..if I'm right and the writers are good, there will be some big flaw revealed about about this one to explain why it took 10k years to get back to making them. Or maybe after being caught the emperor imposes some sanctions on Ix.. But I think it's something along that vein earlier in technology. I think the xians have probably installed something in his brain almost like a computer. It works with his memories but then it kind of gives him underlying tasks or orders. He may think he's hearing it from God. And I actually always read it as Jesuit when I read it, so yeah I inadvertently used a j instead of a g ooops.
Knowing we've only got five episodes left, I just don't know how much deeper they can go with the story. There's only so much intrigue and nuance and side stories that can go on in five episodes. So I think the bulk of the stories going to center around the Ixian's plot to rid the galaxy of the truth sayers
@@JustanotherDude0114 My attention has noticeably improved thanks to Normotim.
3 of my favourite content creators in kne stream 😮
I would often joke with my wife when I saw a new Dune book in the store, "I get the feeling that there were no boring days in Paul's life, ever."
Quinn, please write the official ending of Frank Herbert's masterpiece. I always feel your vision is the closest we can get to what Frank intended. And you should be on the show's writing team! :)
They have 1000s of years before Dune 1000s of years after Dune.
They better make it all
Despite what some of us may feel about Brian Herbert's contributions to the Dune saga, and subsequent connection that the showrunners have with those stories. I'm just very excited that it's at least generating buzz and conversation around Dune! 🙏🏻
I am, for one, in much favor for more of this collab.
Aren't Ixians related to House Richese, why would they assassinate the Richese heir?! And how far back does Bene Tleilaxu go? Aren't all these organizations also fresh outcomes of The Machine Wars?
I kind of doubt the Tleilaxu because it'll spoil a major plot device in later Dune IP, especially needed for films.
The bar was like “what if moss eisley cantina had an EDM night?”
So the hand language the Bene Gesserit used in this episode. Was that the same hand language Paul’s mom uses in Dune when speaking to the guards?
No. That was the "Atreides Battle Language" (well they did look alike loll, but in the books, every military has its own hand language for battle, and the Bene Gesserit would never teach their secret code to random soldiers)
@ thanks.
It was the same Mohiam used in Messiah to speak with Irulan
@@hassanalkhalaf1115 The Sci-Fi channel series Children of Dune was excellent, they had this scene between Mohiam and Irulan, I'm assuming you're talking about that?
I love that scene.
The way they talked about important political matters out loud, while conspiring treason by gesturing subtlety to one another... Listening to the actresses speak while reading completely different subtitles below the screen was really interesting.
Alt shft x and quinn! The only thing that could make it better would be if glimbus was here😮
I feel like Desmond’s line about being controlled by thinking machines may be an attempt to blend the canons somewhat. Like yeah there’s a whole terminator showdown but maybe that was an escalation after humanity’s revolt against the thinking machines in the original sense. Trying to keep Brian happy while also trying to feed FH Dune fans as well? Idk. I’m kinda hopeful in that regard for now. Especially since episode two has given me a lot of heretics/Chapterhouse vibes almost making me think the showrunner potentially wanted to work with those properties but couldn’t bc of timeline concerns
Fantastic crossover. thanks!
I don't think Emperor Strong is *useless*.
He's careful, and likes to consider all the angles before he takes action.
Now he's acquired a deniable hitman, which is a useful asset to have.
There is literally no reason to assume they’ve dismissed Frank’s interpretation of the Butlerian Jihad. “The thinking machines that had enslaved them” could mean either the Terminator scenario in Brian’s books, or the over dependence in Frank’s books (and the way Desmond Hart describes them leans towards the latter). I think the creators have done a good job keeping the past just vague enough to keep both parties happy. TLDR: Chill 😂 just enjoy the show for what it is.
Also, I’m not surprised the writing for the younger and older characters feels different. They are literally different people, of course they would sound different 😂
Agree 💯. I'm probably in the minority being a female fan of the series and also a person who enjoyed Brian and Kevin J Anderson's series.
No.
Leto II makes it clear on numerous occasions that the Thinking Machines had caused humans to atrophy mentally. They were enslaved by decadence and apathy and were unaware of their own decline until it was too late.
Leto II states specifically that it was their reliance on the Thinking Machines that enslaved them, not some cheap arse robot from a late 1960s Dr. Who episode!
The Butleroan Jihad was an urising against the Thinking Machines, there is no mention of the Machines rising up against humanity.
They were merely doing what HUMANS had programmed them to do and..... Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrgh! It drives me mental that the author's own son didn't f***ing read his father's books!
Sorry, but I don't enjoy pieces of s**t!
I’m someone who’s never read the books but I love the Denis Villenuev films and I watch basically all of Quinn’s and nerd cookies dune videos. For me the idea that the way the bene gesserit operate/look and the overall look of the world have only incrementally progressed over the span of 10,000 years feels extremely stupid
As far as the butlarian jihad goes, i always figured the books started when the thinking machines themselves were able to take control when Omnius was activated. Maybe it doesn’t bother me as much because it helps cement that this is our potential future. And it kinda follows the oppressed always copied the oppressor.
Desmond Hart is a predecessor of Sheena !! I wrote it wrong thinking about Siona - but Sheena
My theory is Desmond can twitch his eye and somehow cause people to burn. Because the only time he affects kasha was in the throne room and when kasha begins to burn is at the same time when the prince is burned as well. Desmond had twitched his eye in both interactions With those characters
Loved seeing Jodhi "Maggie the frog" in this series ❤️
No i disagree with the guy that said Quinn knows better than dudes son…quinn definitely knows more about dune than the dudes son.
My largest concern is if Leto II is retconned out and they make Paul the "Tyrant" they referenced in the episode. Please do not make Paul THE tyrant
Chapterhouse was my favorite Dune book.
> not too many changes in technology in 10000 years
However, God-Emperor did make a point that Duncan Idaho from 3500 years back was absolutely hopeless against Moneo. So, I guess it's all about human changes?
I too hated the nightclub scene, but I think it was there to show that something is up with the sword master guy, there was obviously something going on between him and the bartender, and I think that's the only reason that scene exists. Is the sword master part of the insurgency?
My partner who never touched the books but got dragged into the movies both times for the dune movies loved the first epp and followed along with me in excitement
In the 1984 Dune Movie there's the scene where the Navigator tells Shaddam..."Many machines on Ix, new machines."
Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV: Oh, yes?
Guild Navigator: Not as good as those on Richese..
I've always taken that to mean a threat toward Shaddam..what does everyone else think?
What if the computer used for the breeding program is a robot memory core? (Erasmus)
What is the timeline on the creation of the Sardaukar? I've read/seen different versions of their creation and connection to the emporer. Are there Sardaukar at this point in time in the show?
This show is based on The Sisterhood of Dune, not an adaptation
My thought is, they kept some of the things looking very close to the movies just to help people feel more connected to the world that they were already familiar with. Perhaps they could’ve chosen a different way of connecting it, but this was their choice.
Talking about raised by wolves if you have now tv you can still see it
Glido gonna be mad 😜
The show-runners have proven they are transcending the weak source material. I agree with all the criticisms but the good parts were more than good enough to outweigh them at least a couple times over for me.