Great news. Now we need a new Commish to craft a vision for the league to attract the players away from the status quo. There is no money but there can be a process to revitalize a semblance of a sports league. Absent that, it's purgatory with no hope of escape.
Well if you think of it in terms of every other large corporation these days, then yes. Corporations stopped caring about making a profit years ago, its is just about the stock price & valuation. And the WNBA valuation has been increasing since 2021 & really exploded in 2024 with CC joining.
I wonder who's going to pay the commissioners salary. When she doesn't have a job anymore after running the w n b a into the ground, like she's did with her stupidity.
She is doing her job well for the owners. I have realized she is a horrible marketer, but why she was hired is because she has greatly improved the WNBA stock & team valuations which is what anyone truly cares about anymore. Not only is her salary probably massive, she probably also gets a huge bonus every year that the stock price & team valuations increases which has happened at least since 2021.
I will tell you what it all means. The WNBA players organization is bad at math. Sample conversation: WNBA Players: "You triple our pay or we sit the season out! We refuse to play!" NBA: "You mean we won't lose another 40 million dollars? Oooh! I am shaking in my boots!" If they had waited until the new TV money arrives in 2026 they would have had a little leverage. Right now, their leverage is NEGATIVE.
CC's dream was to play in the WNBA, not to start a new league. And Engelbert was not hired to market the league, she was hired to increase the stock value & team valuation & she has done that. Corporations no longer care about profits, just stock valuations. There are lots of corporations that do not make a profit & investors don't care & continue to buy their stock. Its sad but that is the reality of our world. If there weren't money to be made in the WNBA, you wouldn't have 3 new teams joining the league in the next 2 years. And though I have many many issues with the WNBA, Engelbert & the majority of the players, it doesn't change the fact that the WNBA salary cap is horrible & needs to be 2-3X higher. The many corporations who currently don't make a profit still have to pay their employees a competitive wage. No one ever complains about the very obvious massive salary Engelbert earns or the many other administrative jobs making competitive wages. And I bet Engelbert gets a big bonus every year for increasing the valuation. But if you pay your employees a crappy salaries, you can't really complain about their crappy performance. Increasing the salary cap is not about individual players & it doesn't mean that most of the players in the league should earn more money. You could fire 75% of them & most people would not care. But they need to increase the salary cap to pay be able to pay top players who actually bring in revenue for the team more money. They can just set it up like the NBA where no more than 30% of the salary cap can be used for a single player's salary. I also don't think there should be lower salaries for rookies/younger players, since currently they are the bigger draw for the WNBA.
As I said CC is not going to leave the WNBA for some other start up league, it has always her dream to play in the WNBA. And CC cannot get what she deserves if you do not increase the salary cap. I ultimately see CC having a similar career to Maya Moore. If the WNBA doesn't improve, she will stay long enough to check all the boxes like Olympic gold medal, MVP & a championship ring or 2. So there is no chance CC will go elsewhere or start a new league for at least 4 more years. And that is not even mentioning other Fever players we have come to love. AB, Kelsey & Lexie deserve more money too. Should they suffer because of other bad players in the league?
Part of the Commissioners job is to market the league because that increases profits so I don't agree with that at all. David Stern did a great job of marking the NBA, which is why he was seen as an excellent commissioner.
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5skI probably worded what I said wrong. I don't think when she was hired they were as impressed with her marketing skills as much as her ability to increase valuations which may have been attributed to being good at marketing. At the least, they continue to keep her around because she has increased valuations of the WNBA & teams, despite her marketing skills being horrible. And I agree Stern was great at marketing. Engelbert's plan of pushing rivalries when all the millions of new fans to the league love one players & those new fans of that love one player outnumber existing fans by so much was ridiculous.
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5sk And if the Engelbert followed Sterns example the WNBA would be in much better shape: Pay the top players more Positively promote CC & protect her like he did MJ Get rid of the rough bully ball style play Highlight many other players as also being good players (not just push Aja & Angel in an adversarial way or only the super teams Liberty & Aces) Pushed to have CC in the Olympic to increase international appeal
True Value? I dont think those words mean what you think it means? You cant sell tickets to watch you play basketball. But there hope in Comedy Writing. MY Stomsch hurting from laughing so hard. LMAO
THE WNBA IS NOT LOSING MONEY. HERE ARE THE FINANCIAL FACTS: Anyone who has ever owned a new business knows that however successful the business is, the first years will show a loss on paper. That's because all the profits go to reinvesting and building for the future. What really matters is a business’s EQUITY - the difference between its total assets and its total liabilities - and the WNBA’s equity jumped up by 25% this year. The average value of a WNBA franchise is over $100 million, so no, the league is not on the verge of folding. If they were, they wouldn’t be expanding, chartering planes, and playing more games next year. Again, the WNBA's losses are all on paper. No one knows how the league really did, because their finances aren't made public, and by re-investing any profits, the NBA can use the WNBA as a tax write-off on their own profits. The players know the accountants are playing fast and loose with the numbers, and the owners are using it as an excuse to keep their salaries artificially low. And THAT'S why the players have rejected the CBA contract.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv Well, somebody just paid $125 million for the new expansion Portland team, and bids for the next WNBA expansion franchise are already hitting $200M-$250M. So with that kind of credit, you think the bank might be willing to loan you a couple mill?
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5sk Because you're right. The league would have folded if they really lost $40 million in their best year ever. But instead they're expanding, getting new lucrative tv deals, and buyers are lining up to pay massive sums to get a franchise. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the league is actually making money.
What happened to the call in line for the live shows? You guys still take phone calls? A lot of interesting topics around this soap opera known as the WNBA
Yes, I forget to put the number last time, I put it up the last 5 times and no one called. Please call this Monday because the next 2 Mondays I'll be out of the country: 215-605-4223
No one outside of the board of governors for the W and the NBA executives know if the W was actually losing money. I find it interesting that this information is leaked out while they're negotiating the new CBA. Whatever the real number is, it is being exaggerated for the purposes of negotiation. If you compare the media rights deals and the number of players in each league, the W players should be making around a million dollars a year on average in 2026, using the $12 million dollar per year average NBA salary as a benchmark. If it's true that the W only gets half the revenue because of its financial structure, then the W number drops to a half a million dollars per player per year on average.
Instead of riding the wave of Clark's rookie year. The league, the players, and the media push back on this young lady. I've been a fan of the W for 25 years supporting the league and I'm proud of it. That was until this year. I saw a toxic environment from people I had the utmost respect for, including Geno! I don't want any part of the WNBA and their delusional mindset! I'll be the first to say the numbers are getting better each year. These are facts! But Clark added nitro to the mix, instead of celebrating all the eyes on the league, they went katty! This is the difference between men and women. A man can dislike another man but still acknowledge his worth to the sport. A woman goes on a false narrative, outright lies, and will be as pitty as she needs to be, to tear another woman down. I know men, NBA players, and media that doesn't like Mike, Bird, Magic, and LaBron. But will respect what they bring to the table!
I think their agreement covers next season. It’s the 2026 season that they are negotiating for. I don’t think the ladies want to jeopardize their basketball season, but we’ll see. It’s just entertainment at the end of the day. We can live without it or watch something else in the meantime.
There’s nothing wrong with renegotiating for their futures and taking advantage of this change in circumstances. Real fans of Caitlin would understand that this is what she is trying to accomplish.
@@aaronwooten382 The NBA players get 50 percent. The ladies get 20, I heard even 10 percent somewhere else. I heard a really good interview on Locked on Women’s basketball podcast. Terri Jackson was getting a chance to explain things beyond our surface level of understanding. I’ll share the link.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv They have lots of leverage, more than they’ve ever had. That’s why they are doing this at this time. I think we have no clue with what’s actually happening but we’re speaking as though we know. Check out Locked on women’s basket ball podcast. There’s a fantastic interview with Terri Jackson that gives a ton of insight the average has no clue about.
CC tired to get them paid and they tried to take out her eye.
CC could go overseas, we will support her....
I will follow her anywhere. Euroleague.. AU.. new developed BB league.. Golf.. ping pong.. beer pong.. get my point?
Please please lock them out.
It's clearly always been a write off. Management eats the 💰 players don't. Lets she a spread sheet!
that means they will not play or quarrel
Great news. Now we need a new Commish to craft a vision for the league to attract the players away from the status quo. There is no money but there can be a process to revitalize a semblance of a sports league. Absent that, it's purgatory with no hope of escape.
According to the Washington Post players get about 10% of 200 million generated this year.
My bad, i got them wrong, They doing that "New Math". Lol
lol
Well if you think of it in terms of every other large corporation these days, then yes. Corporations stopped caring about making a profit years ago, its is just about the stock price & valuation. And the WNBA valuation has been increasing since 2021 & really exploded in 2024 with CC joining.
Are spread sheets open for public viewing or for share holders only? Something doesn't smell right!
I wonder who's going to pay the commissioners salary. When she doesn't have a job anymore after running the w n b a into the ground, like she's did with her stupidity.
She is doing her job well for the owners. I have realized she is a horrible marketer, but why she was hired is because she has greatly improved the WNBA stock & team valuations which is what anyone truly cares about anymore. Not only is her salary probably massive, she probably also gets a huge bonus every year that the stock price & team valuations increases which has happened at least since 2021.
I will tell you what it all means. The WNBA players organization is bad at math. Sample conversation:
WNBA Players: "You triple our pay or we sit the season out! We refuse to play!"
NBA: "You mean we won't lose another 40 million dollars? Oooh! I am shaking in my boots!"
If they had waited until the new TV money arrives in 2026 they would have had a little leverage. Right now, their leverage is NEGATIVE.
Agreed
Most unions are pretty bad at math. I remember some of the local unions years ago decided that a recession was a perfect time for a strike.
IT ALREADY LOSING 40 MILLIUON THIS YEAR WNBA WILL CLOSE WATCH WEE
CC's dream was to play in the WNBA, not to start a new league. And Engelbert was not hired to market the league, she was hired to increase the stock value & team valuation & she has done that. Corporations no longer care about profits, just stock valuations. There are lots of corporations that do not make a profit & investors don't care & continue to buy their stock. Its sad but that is the reality of our world. If there weren't money to be made in the WNBA, you wouldn't have 3 new teams joining the league in the next 2 years.
And though I have many many issues with the WNBA, Engelbert & the majority of the players, it doesn't change the fact that the WNBA salary cap is horrible & needs to be 2-3X higher. The many corporations who currently don't make a profit still have to pay their employees a competitive wage. No one ever complains about the very obvious massive salary Engelbert earns or the many other administrative jobs making competitive wages. And I bet Engelbert gets a big bonus every year for increasing the valuation. But if you pay your employees a crappy salaries, you can't really complain about their crappy performance.
Increasing the salary cap is not about individual players & it doesn't mean that most of the players in the league should earn more money. You could fire 75% of them & most people would not care. But they need to increase the salary cap to pay be able to pay top players who actually bring in revenue for the team more money. They can just set it up like the NBA where no more than 30% of the salary cap can be used for a single player's salary. I also don't think there should be lower salaries for rookies/younger players, since currently they are the bigger draw for the WNBA.
As I said CC is not going to leave the WNBA for some other start up league, it has always her dream to play in the WNBA. And CC cannot get what she deserves if you do not increase the salary cap. I ultimately see CC having a similar career to Maya Moore. If the WNBA doesn't improve, she will stay long enough to check all the boxes like Olympic gold medal, MVP & a championship ring or 2. So there is no chance CC will go elsewhere or start a new league for at least 4 more years.
And that is not even mentioning other Fever players we have come to love. AB, Kelsey & Lexie deserve more money too. Should they suffer because of other bad players in the league?
Part of the Commissioners job is to market the league because that increases profits so I don't agree with that at all. David Stern did a great job of marking the NBA, which is why he was seen as an excellent commissioner.
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5skI probably worded what I said wrong. I don't think when she was hired they were as impressed with her marketing skills as much as her ability to increase valuations which may have been attributed to being good at marketing. At the least, they continue to keep her around because she has increased valuations of the WNBA & teams, despite her marketing skills being horrible.
And I agree Stern was great at marketing. Engelbert's plan of pushing rivalries when all the millions of new fans to the league love one players & those new fans of that love one player outnumber existing fans by so much was ridiculous.
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5sk And if the Engelbert followed Sterns example the WNBA would be in much better shape:
Pay the top players more
Positively promote CC & protect her like he did MJ
Get rid of the rough bully ball style play
Highlight many other players as also being good players (not just push Aja & Angel in an adversarial way or only the super teams Liberty & Aces)
Pushed to have CC in the Olympic to increase international appeal
Remember that this historic rise was because of one person, and the league at large hated that 😅.
Always support Labor. CC can't play alone against no opponents
True Value? I dont think those words mean what you think it means? You cant sell tickets to watch you play basketball. But there hope in Comedy Writing. MY Stomsch hurting from laughing so hard. LMAO
THE WNBA IS NOT LOSING MONEY. HERE ARE THE FINANCIAL FACTS:
Anyone who has ever owned a new business knows that however successful the business is, the first years will show a loss on paper. That's because all the profits go to reinvesting and building for the future. What really matters is a business’s EQUITY - the difference between its total assets and its total liabilities - and the WNBA’s equity jumped up by 25% this year.
The average value of a WNBA franchise is over $100 million, so no, the league is not on the verge of folding. If they were, they wouldn’t be expanding, chartering planes, and playing more games next year. Again, the WNBA's losses are all on paper. No one knows how the league really did, because their finances aren't made public, and by re-investing any profits, the NBA can use the WNBA as a tax write-off on their own profits. The players know the accountants are playing fast and loose with the numbers, and the owners are using it as an excuse to keep their salaries artificially low. And THAT'S why the players have rejected the CBA contract.
Franchise value is all on paper and is worthless unless you actually sell the team. Estimated worth does NOT pay salaries.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv Well, somebody just paid $125 million for the new expansion Portland team, and bids for the next WNBA expansion franchise are already hitting $200M-$250M. So with that kind of credit, you think the bank might be willing to loan you a couple mill?
How do you know this without actually knowing the numbers?
@@MarkRobsSportsShowdown-mp5sk Because you're right. The league would have folded if they really lost $40 million in their best year ever. But instead they're expanding, getting new lucrative tv deals, and buyers are lining up to pay massive sums to get a franchise. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to deduce that the league is actually making money.
What happened to all the money Caitlin brought in? What did they do with it? Why are they in a hole?
What happened to the call in line for the live shows? You guys still take phone calls? A lot of interesting topics around this soap opera known as the WNBA
Yes, I forget to put the number last time, I put it up the last 5 times and no one called. Please call this Monday because the next 2 Mondays I'll be out of the country: 215-605-4223
No one outside of the board of governors for the W and the NBA executives know if the W was actually losing money. I find it interesting that this information is leaked out while they're negotiating the new CBA. Whatever the real number is, it is being exaggerated for the purposes of negotiation. If you compare the media rights deals and the number of players in each league, the W players should be making around a million dollars a year on average in 2026, using the $12 million dollar per year average NBA salary as a benchmark. If it's true that the W only gets half the revenue because of its financial structure, then the W number drops to a half a million dollars per player per year on average.
no one knows the true numbers but looking at the product that the wnba put on the floor the past two decades, i can't imagine they made money
Trash Talk is not Good!!!!! Bye!!!!
Instead of riding the wave of Clark's rookie year. The league, the players, and the media push back on this young lady. I've been a fan of the W for 25 years supporting the league and I'm proud of it. That was until this year. I saw a toxic environment from people I had the utmost respect for, including Geno! I don't want any part of the WNBA and their delusional mindset!
I'll be the first to say the numbers are getting better each year. These are facts! But Clark added nitro to the mix, instead of celebrating all the eyes on the league, they went katty!
This is the difference between men and women. A man can dislike another man but still acknowledge his worth to the sport. A woman goes on a false narrative, outright lies, and will be as pitty as she needs to be, to tear another woman down.
I know men, NBA players, and media that doesn't like Mike, Bird, Magic, and LaBron. But will respect what they bring to the table!
Good points
If by some clause CC can opt out of the greedy Nike, WNBA will dissappear
I think their agreement covers next season. It’s the 2026 season that they are negotiating for. I don’t think the ladies want to jeopardize their basketball season, but we’ll see. It’s just entertainment at the end of the day. We can live without it or watch something else in the meantime.
There’s nothing wrong with renegotiating for their futures and taking advantage of this change in circumstances. Real fans of Caitlin would understand that this is what she is trying to accomplish.
I agree. The time is now. Gotta try to get a 60/40 agreement so that the next generation of players can benefit right away.
@@aaronwooten382 The NBA players get 50 percent. The ladies get 20, I heard even 10 percent somewhere else. I heard a really good interview on Locked on Women’s basketball podcast. Terri Jackson was getting a chance to explain things beyond our surface level of understanding. I’ll share the link.
There sure as hell is something wrong with renogiatuing is when you have ZERO leverage.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv They have lots of leverage, more than they’ve ever had. That’s why they are doing this at this time. I think we have no clue with what’s actually happening but we’re speaking as though we know. Check out Locked on women’s basket ball podcast. There’s a fantastic interview with Terri Jackson that gives a ton of insight the average has no clue about.
@@MarkMay-cr6bv the leverage is Unrivaled League, CC, & overseas basketball. Plus Adam Silver want to continue Stern's wishes to make the W work.
This interview gives more insight. It’s with Terri Jackson th-cam.com/video/JVOqEkgymd8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=x57TPG4RgybvWoIn
Thanks