I kind of gave up with replacing my aging falling apart gas boiler with a heat pump even after being inspired by your work, partially because of cost, but also because all the heat geeks are so booked out now. I’ve gone the Octopus heat pump route now. They won’t match Heat Geek levels of SCOP but like you said, should beat our old gas combi, and it’s another small step on the way. I would love to get a Heat Geek person in the future to help maximise the system so hopefully this is something you could offer in the future.
Between Fully Charged and Heat Geek videos we installed a heat pump mid 2024 and the results have been great. The house is now fully electric with PV, batteries + MVHR and good insulation. The gas was disconnected June 2024 and so far the bills have been much lower than expected. Great work guys.
I am always amazed how much "Heat pumps don't work here" comes up in the UK context. Here, on the east coast of Canada, it's -10C and my heat pump is providing 100% of my heat (and will, even when the temp drops more.) And "Heat pumps don't work in old homes?" - my house is almost 200 years old - perhaps not old by UK standards, but older than the average UK home.
Is your heating pump an air to air ( air con) or air to water, which what is being talked about in UK They do work, but It isnt all about the temp either, it's about the humidity. The heat pump will work better in the dryer air of -10.then at 2 degrees in misty humid environments.The weather in the UK can cause a lot of defrosting of the unit, which sucks heat from the home, which forces the unit to work harder and go through the same process every 30mins. So Alot of the heat pumps struggle in those situations.
Lol. I live in the US south. The humidity here runs 90% even in winter. The heat pump is the only way to counter the humidity. (Air/Air) An Air/water heat pump won’t change humidity over a gas boiler.
@@jezzaandrews1940 " So Alot of the heat pumps struggle in those situations." ====== They do not struggle, they just do what they are designed to do i.e run defrost cycles. My house in N.E Scotland saw a cold spell of -5.5C where I am, at that it was running a defrost cycle about once every hour and a half. Typically every two to three hours at -1 Celcius. With correct size volumizer there should be little heat 'sucked from the home' during the 5-7 minute defrost cycle on an air to water system. My living room temperature sat at near 21C most of that time. During that eleven day period (2nd-12th January inc') the consumption average was 1kW per hour. At 14p per hour as per my electricity tariff that is £3.36 s day, to keep my house warm 24 hours a day. Two bedroom 1960's semi, modest insulation.
@@jezzaandrews1940 Really? I accept that high humidity probably slightly degrades the efficiency of an ASHP, but so does lower temperatures. In the UK we don't get anything like as cold temperatures as (say) Scandinavia. Also, the Heat Geek guys are achieving COPs of more than 4.0. In the UK. In all that humidity. It's just a fact that heat pumps work in the UK. Air2Air or Air2Water. I live in the Lake District. Lots of humidity there (the clue is in the name). My ASHP works fine.
Nova Scotia has months of 2 degree, misty weather - far damper than almost anywhere in the UK - and the defrosting cycle accounts for very little energy use. No sure why there always seems to be some special reason why heat pumps don't work in a particular area, despite them working fine in other places with identical or even less favourable environments.
Here in Finland, I live in an 8 story block of flats made-up of 3 buildings with 107 flats. 5 years ago we retrofitted a heat capture system on the building's outgoing exhaust air and coupled it to a heat pump. Now 80-90% of the heating and hot water is supplied by the heat pump and only 10-20% of the heat comes from a centralised district heating grid supplied by the municipality and that only happens in the coldest weeks of the year.
I can confer this is exactly what happened to my apartment complex in North West Helsinki. The borehole all 32 of the were drilled during the summer in the communal area around the block and the pipes installed. Total time was about 3 months from start to finish.. Works perfectly
My gas heating system failed again this winter, chatting to the heating engineer I mentioned that I plan to get a heat pump next. He said I wouldn’t bother they don’t work in uk homes and you will get cold below-3. He was soon educated as I have watched every heat geek video. He was very quiet after. 😂
"ah yes, I've been warned that's what heating engineers who don't know what they're doing will tell me" - I've used this line recently and it was surprisingly effective.
Really enjoyed this one. I have transitioned to EV(2019) then solar/ Zappi (2019), Eddi (2020) ,octopus (2021) heat pump (2022), Home Assistant (2023) and Open Energy Monitor (2024) in large part because of fully charged,heat Geek and others. Thank you both for helping me along the journey.
Really great to see Adam on the show - I’m a big fan of his channel, because he is so good at articulating the case for decarbonisation in an accessible and fun way. Interesting to hear that he did not do well in formal education because he comes over as very intelligent and passionate too. And he is revolutionising education, albeit post-compulsory schooling and in a specific sector. The reason: he has that passion.
Just had my Heat Pump Installed (2025) by Octopus. I asked the engineers if they knew of Heat Geek - not only did they know about Adam, they were Heat Geek qualified!! I instantly knew I was in good hands... Very pleased with the install. Am now using "Home Assistant" to monitor / refine the HP Settings (started with solar, battery, eddi). I asked Chat GPT is there was anything else I could do to improve my home... it had nothing to add ! Journey's end?
So much fantastic enthusiasm. We have an EV and a heat pump largely due to the great educational work you both do so thank you both very much and keep up the great work :-)
Fantastic chat. I’ve followed Heat Geek for a while and Adam’s passion for this subject is contagious as always. Exciting to see all of the new tech coming along.
Almost every planning application we are considering in our local planning committee have air source heat pumps. One very large development has a district heating scheme powered by air source heat pumps.
Big for of Aira here too (@ 14:41), being their customer no. 1 in their UK pilot phase. Big fan of Octopus, being on their Cosy Octopus tariff. It was reassuring to see Aira Partnering with Heat Geek recently, as important the VC backed big players in the market have the same attention to detail, and focus on the correct settings, Heat Geek approved independent installers have too. Bit like the points both Adam and Robert make, when our previous boiler broke in 2014, there wasn’t a suggestion, or a question made by us about Heat Pumps. We did however have a Solar iBoost solar diverter on the Hot Water Tank at that point…the first one they’d installed in Camden, Central London📍 The thing that pushed up to Heat Pumps was a 2022 Boiler Service, the first when the Vaillant was out of it’s 7 year Manufacturer Warranty, the was a gas leak within the boiler casing (not into the house thankfully, as the Nest Protect’s would have picked that up). It took about 9 months of research before we landed on Aira for our install, a Vaillant 5kW aroTherm. Over a year in, with solar, battery and Heat Pump working in harmony (not connected in anyway, in a IoT sense…but playing nicely around low cost Cosy Octopus timings), we’ve recouped 1/3 of the Heat Pump install cost! When you consider the Heat Pump install, thanks to the BUS Grant, cost as much as our 2014 boiler install, crazy to think by 2027, we’ll be saving money in perpetuity…also boosted by the £125 / year additional saving of being off the Gas Main 💰 Thanks for another great conversation, and continued enthusiasm around this topic to engage others to make an energy transition 👍🏼
Great conversation. It's through this channel, and Adam's work that I drive EVs, have solar on the house and a heat pump has just been hung on the wall. It's taken a while to get there but for the first time I won't personally be burning anything in my day to day life.
Heat Geeks fitted our heat pump system 6th January...3.5KWH Vaillant...3 Bed Semi, EPCB, 3.7KW Heatloss, upgraded all rads (Choice), loads of hotwater, nice 20oC all the time, low bills. Its a bit costly, but it will pay back even more once the Government accepts that carbon taxes must go on gas to follow the Sweden model...
@ Adam did invite me down to London for a video but unfortunately I couldn’t justify the time and cost to be away from home. It was an honour to be invited though
Really enjoyed this talk, normally as an engineer I just want more technical detail. However Adam story of how he is so enthusiastic about heating with heat pumps makes him such an inspiration for young engineers, well done Robert and Adam.
Thanks again for another great podcast. I have followed both Fully Charged and Heat Geek on heat pumps. I live in Alberta Canada who burn baby burn. I had over 5 different quotes before I committed to a air to air heat pump. I was needing a A/C anyway, and I could get a grant on a heat pump but not a A/C, so it was a no brainer. Here in Alberta, part of the grant qualifications, we have to have a backup heating system due to the -30 & 40’C winter temperatures. The problem was that my choice of installer could not guarantee that the system they installed qualified for the grant. As a result I went for my second choice, they would qualify. Big mistake. This company was clueless. After three months I had them take there system out and I had my first choice company install the heat pump. Both heat pumps were perfect for the job, it was just the lack of knowledge of the first installers, which give heat pumps a bad rap.
Fantastic conversation to follow, hopefully seen by many who are still unsure about heat pumps. Our project (Solar PV, home battery, EV charger & heat pump with heat battery, no tank) was done in early September 2023. After the first year, our annual electricity bill went from ca. £2,800 to £1,000, and it is now including 'petrol' 😉. And that is with a SOP of 'only' 3.5, because the main house is an end-of-terrace Victorian cottage with solid, non-insulated walls.
Great to see Adam on the podcast. Good videos by heat geek/sceptic skill builder channels with them fixing a bad old heat pump installation. Skill Builder is still sceptical even after shown the proof that heat pumps work.
So informative. The Heat Geek website and heating engineer map is great. So clear and reassuring. I’m so close to committing to an ASHP. I just need to tidy the house up so they can survey properly.😊
My journey was, 2020 solar and battery (Tesla), 2021 EV and Zappi, 2023, induction hob and air to air heating, 2024, Mixergy heatpump hot water cylinder. Octopus agile, and investments in Ripple energy. My choice to make all this investment, don’t really mind if I don’t make money back, I never thought when I put a gas boiler in in 2007 I would make money. If you can do it, do, we can’t wait for governments t whilst they faff around changing mind on targets etc. most of these decisions thanks to the Fully Charged Show! Thank you!
Can't agree with you more about Government's faffing around - especially the US under tRump pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord and wanting to abolish Wind Turbines etc, completely bonkers - but that's the other side of the Atlantic. Over here we've got a Government that is actually dis-incentivising EV's (Road Tax and Luxury car tax), EV's are still more expensive to build than ICE cars so there should be an allowance for this. Not regulating the highway robbery in the EV charging industry where the likes of Shell want to charge the same per mile as an Ice car. Our Government should take a hard look at what they spend 'OUR Money' on before raising Taxes on everyone!
Really splendid episode. This is one of those I will come back to again and again. Adam Chapman is a breath of fresh air. And Robert, I too was very academic - top of the class, etc.. and it all fell apart in my last couple of years. I did go to University as a mature student in my 40s, to study the environment and came away with an average degree, but the die had been cast long before. It makes me happy that you do what you do. 👍
I think the Centigrade temperature scale has caused damage to heat pump technology. People think that there's not a lot of heat energy in 12°C air/water compared to the 20°C of a house. But in Kelvin that's 285 K vs 293 K. You could argue it's only ~3% difference.
Brilliant podcast, thank you! Especially interesting to me at the moment as I'm in the process of making the switch from a gas boiler to a heat pump. There are lots of people/videos etc telling me why heat pumps are a mistake, lots from the same people who tell me that my electric car will catch fire v soon, will need a new battery tomorrow, and there aren't any chargers anywhere. I've been driving EVs for 5 years...
I have already converted my 1940’s house, in sunny Lithgow Australia. Gas has gone, helped by a 4 week gas outage some 4 years ago. I have a reverse cycle aircon system for heating/cooling and a heat pump hot water system (that I am now going to turn down) as well as a 10Kw solar and a Tesla Powerwall battery. Next, it’s been ordered, is a Tesla Model Y LR. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for bringing the USA the fresh perspective. PS you were the first podcast I ever watched and then I went to Sandy Monroe and I went to Pete Gruber and it went to Brian White and so on but it did start with you so thank you the Highlander.😊 please remember the Highlander model kindness is always free😊
I have helped two apprentices through their apprentice degrees. This is a brilliant option as they have a blend of the academic and practical. Would recommend to anyone.
Can you explain what an apprentice Degree is ? I did a 4 year apprenticeship and then a 4 year engineering degree, so unlike 99% of the fitters, plumbers and technicians installing heat pumps, I have actually earned the right to be called an Engineer
A most enjoyable hour given the enthusiasm. Although I understood Adam's point on not requiring insulation to install a heat-pump, he might have better explained the downsides - You end up with a much bigger unit than would otherwise be required with higher running costs, all for the sake of a one off cost which is there forever - I insulated mine DIY on a 12 year old house, bringing consumption down to 25% for under 2 grand. If we don't improve home efficiency, grid capacity will become the limiting factor for uptake in heat pumps all the quicker. - And let's face it, HMG are not noted for forward thinking other than for their own benefit.... Where I am in europe there are no grants, the power supply is max 65A and unreliable, and with heat pumps being at 3 times the price of an equivalent gas boiler, when mine blew at -6c, it was a new gas boiler. The upside of it was Adam's clear explanation of low heat and larger rads, and I'm forever grateful for it - New upgraded rads in over summer, now running continuous heating - My boiler sees a return of max 23c when it's -10, and the room temps flat as a pancake at their individual temps except for upstairs at ca +/-0.5c. I don't expect it to change much when the big freeze lands, so one very happy and cosy homeowner. Keep up the good work both, and more power to your elbows....
Love it when 2 of my favourite TH-cam channels come together! The part about Adam being the UK's biggest hydrogen installer then switching to heat pumps is going to be my go to comment whenever anyone says they'll replace their boiler with a hydrogen ready one!
I had a 35 year Vallaint boiler that I wanted to replace in spring with heat pump. The Vallaint failed just a few months ago (October) with parts that had been declared obsolete by Vallaint (an £80 diaphragm disc) - which meant it could not be patched to carry on even until spring. Minimum quote time was 12 weeks to fit a heat pump. I wasn't going to wait 3 months through winter without any heating so now I have a new gas boiler (fitted in a week) and therefore won't be getting heat pump any time soon. Not enough heat pump engineers out there (or if there are they can't work fast enough)
I wanted a heat pump but I was put off by the Octopus assessor who said my insulation wasn’t good enough and heat loss was to much. Thanks for clarifying things.
I was clearing out some old paperwork today and came across our annual electricity and gas bill from 2013, in todays prices this would have been £2200 for last year, our actual bill last year was as close to zero as makes no difference, we now have Solar, batteries, run two EVs and heat the house with a heat pump, very happy with the result!
We have Solar PV, battery and heat pump in a 1910 stone house. We top up with wood burners if needed but seem to use them less and less as we add insulation. Our oil boiler and oil tank were at end of life so a heat pump made a lot of sense rather than locking into another 20 years of fossil fuels. Feel lucky heat pump tech in the UK had got to where it was in time for us to switch.
I put in an air to air unit here in NW Michigan by myself to replace the baseboard resistive electric heat and window unit AC in this room. It is working well, heating warmer rather than saving heating costs. The only annoying part is when it goes into defrost mode periodically, I may put in a second unit in the main room which would make that heating gap less noticable. With a metal roof, cooling is not a problem, even the little window unit was adequate, but the heat pump does an exceptional job at dehumidification so my dehumidifiers don't run much anymore.
Roberino has the Tepeo, 85%n efficient (it leaks heat at 15% each day), its less efficient than a new gas boiler and need to charge 40KWH off peak, He'd be better off mothballing it and getting Adam in to put a good ASHP. He could get the Urban Plumber guy in to do the job and then show it at the Everything Electric Shows..
What a great video. I am electric only, and am thinking of DIY internal Insulation. and a small air to air heat pump of the sort that plugs into the mains with a normal three pin plug. I would like to raise my normal winter time temperature from between 8 and 10 degrees C, but I would not want it warmer than 15 degrees. At that only in my front room. I always have all the internal doors open at night so the heat would spread out a bit ... The advantage of DIY insulation [based on the Rock-wool] pads is that I can do small sections as I can afford it. I own the Lease on a flat in a building built in 1836 with stone walls about 20 inches thick, dry lined, but not a stitch of insulation! I have no access to the loft void, but would do the ceilings the same way as the walls, even though I'm right under the roof. The rooms are too high, so lowering the ceilings a bit would be a benefit. The other thing I would like to have is a 5KW battery to harvest the cheaper night rate electric, and use that throughout the day. I daresay that even these aspirations are beyond my budget! No chance of Solar, sadly. Best wishes from George
Great podcast, one of my favourites to date. One question for Adam; I have an ASHP already installed. Can I have the install 'audited' by a Heat Geek engineer and then annually serviced?
This is great video and absolutely enjoyed it. I am keen to learn more about the mini store, we have a tank already with our heat pump but would be a great add on, should we run out of hot water. Oh BTW our heat was installed by octopus and has been brilliant ❤❤
Heat Geek need to talk to my housing association plumber, he is the cork stopping 200 heat pumps, but he won't be swayed , I' ve tried. Also, what a fantastic guest, I appreciate anyone who is passionate about their thing. I would watch a talk about spiders legs if the person was as passionate about their subject. Top bloke x2
Education policy is the reason we don’t have engineers. I am 60 this year and my school had lathes, full engineering workshops and woodworking equipment. Now we don’t. What do the politicians expect? If you don’t train people then how are they supposed to know anything. Not everyone is academic but it doesn’t make them thick.
Big fan of the EES & Heatgeeks. in the past there was a video interviewing a gentleman from NatGrid, explaining how the grid can cope with a world of 100% EVs. Can we have the equivalent for a world of 100% Heat pumps. The other day Wind capacity was very low and conventional gas was taking up the slack.
Even if all electricity were produced using gas the heat pump is still a winner in terms of CO2 footprint compared to a gas boiler in every house. As it is, without renewables the UK would have to treble its gas imports, given that renewables provide @ 40% electricity over the year at present (as does gas roughly speaking) and that UK imports about half the gas needed from Norwegian sector of Nth Sea.
@_Dougaldog from my back of the napkins calculation a couple of weeks ago when we had a cold snap the demand on the Nat Grid demand with all current gas heating converted to heat pumps would have been circa 80Gw. This would be 35Gw over the Gas power capacity available to the UK grid. So you agree that in order to go 100% heat pump the UK will need to double its CCGT. Clearly my calculations are not to be taken seriously, I would like to hear from someone in the know; How will this work, is there a route plan to overcome the obvious hurdles.
@ Unlikely that UK would double its CCGT production, so on that I would not agree. Many of these HPs will be supplied through local Solar PV during the less demanding months, reducing the demand on the grid. Likewise during peak periods supplied from local storage be it home batteries, EV to grid, or some other of a multitude of localised storage mediums. Once again reducing demand on grid. There are a significant number that are already self sufficient for electricity needs. Your napkin calculations pale in comparison aside the time immemorial 'Fag packet' method.....
The biggest issue with new builds locally in Sussex is UKPN don't have the electrical infrastructure for some of the new build sights so it's been quicker and cheaper to put in gas to them. Investment in infrastructure is so far behind where we need to be for net zero it's ridiculous.
38:53 - Surely there should be a nice visual flow chart for people to follow so tehy know what steps to take first. If this then this type. Forgot to add, great episode! Could watch you 2 talk all day.
I have a all in one heat pump/ ac unit in my living room. It has no outside unit just require two large holes through the wall. My livingroom was always cold even with the heating on. Now its lovely and very cheap to run. Once it gets the room to temperature which doesnt have a door so really most of downstairs it ticks over at 200w or so. A 400w heater couldnt keeo the room even remotely warm so we can guess from that that its getting atleast 2cop but id assume far more and is rated to get 3.6. we always had a portable ac unit in the summer so thought why not upgrade and have a more efficient ac unit and some heating. For less than £1k i cant faulit it and im sure two of these would heat a house quite happily. Now i think we could get more people to get heat pump if it was air to air because you then get the benefit of ac during the summer. The government need to change the rules on the grant scheme. We have an abundance of clean energy in the summer anyway so why dont we use it. Ac also has the benefit of keeping houses dry lowering mould and improving peoples living conditions.
You talking about air-to-air. These are one type of "air source HPs" as are the air-to-water HPs mainly promoted in UK. They are both AIR SOURCE but the delivery is either by air (yours), or water (gas boiler replacement system).
I also started and ran a company called INVESTINPOTENTIAL for 12 years which aimed to get teenagers to find their true potential -with or without University!
Deeply dislike the way the conversation about running costs so rarely goes to "but of course if electricity was reasonably priced in the UK, it wouldn't be even close on term of running cost Vs gas."
Most relevant comment here should be liked by everyone. I know they are on about adjusting the spark gap over a 10 year period on the gov website but that's not effective enough. What we don't want to do is raise gas to put people in fuel poverty though.
Absolutely right - the price of electricity is set by the highest cost by source, which is electricity generated from burning gas. A lower price for electricity would benefit heat pumps, but would reduce profits from solar PV, wind turbines and nuclear etc.
A well installed heat pump is 5x more efficient than a gas boiler which more that compensates for the price difference between gas and electricty. Youe bills won’t be massively cheaper but because of the efficiency difference, your carbon footprint will ne massively reduced.
@@crm114. Your be lucky to hit a SCOP of 5 that's a very very precise install. Mine does go over 4 and near 5 in summer but the cold months it's more like 3 to 4 at best.
Hope you will cover the temperature they can go, I am in Canada where we can have -40 degrees Celsius. Most heat pump were rated to -20 degrees Celsius. We build this home 5 years ago and local plumbers said in Ontario Canada we remove eat pumps we do not install them. Electricity is expensive in Ontario.
Excited about this as I'm saving up to get a Cosy 6 from Octopus but am put off by having to have a big cylinder in the loft (for the last fifteen years I've had a gas combi boiler). One of those Mini Stores that fits in a kitchen cupboard would be ideal if Octopus are prepared to adopt them as part of the package.
Yes, if space is at a premium, heat batteries are a great solution. Our Sunamp Thermino is a 3rd of the size of an equivalent water tank - and you don't need to worry about legionella cycles either.
Robert, any chance you can add a link in the summary to the HeatGeeks hydrogen video you referenced around 44 minutes into this episode? I have searched for HeatGeeks hydogen and there are a few videos, just want to make sure I get the right one as it sounds interesting. Thanks. Great episode by the way :)
I just found out that it's a legal requirement in the UK that gas boilers must be installed with a maximum central heating temperature of 55°C. That's so that it's in condensing mode, but that's also comfortably in heat pump range. It's far too slow, but at least the people who refuse to consider a heat pump are legally required to make the changes that make them even more attractive as an option to replace your boiler.
I live in Sydney. For at least the last 25 years we have had 'reverse-cycle air conditioning' in our house, as do many many people. It heats in the winter and cools in the summer. I think that they can handle outside temps down to as much as -10 C (never happens here). I can't understand what is novel about heat pumps. What am I missing?
The biggest problem in UK for heat pumps is cost. We have one of highest electricity prices in Europe and cheap gas. Electric price is 4-5* higher than gas /kWh so unless got solar panels or 400-500% heat pump is more expensive
District heating. Using industrial waste heat, rubbish burning (better than landfill), heat pump taking heat from sewage water... do you have district heating in the UK?
Why is burning waste better than landfill when it comes to atmospheric pollution? Note, I understand that it's important to take out organic waste to avoid methane formation so assume that everyone is putting their organic waste in green bins...
The most important part of this interview was the positive depiction of neuro diversity. I want engineers to be neuro diverse, I want every single nut or bolt to be tightened exactly to specification rather than what my non neuro diverse friends would do. A few years ago a friend was putting up a kids climbing structure. They had a load of nuts and washers left over, didn't bother them, it bothered me, I took it apart and rebuilt it. Had it remaining as it was, it would have collapsed the first time it was climbed on. Please please please go round the schools and colleges and help open their eyes to the potential there in.
I'm absolutely for heat pumps and got a firm in to quote. But was told my preferred flat roof location for the heat pump was not acceptable. The 1 mtr rule from the boundary means you have to place it almost in the middle of the garden.Then to place the massive water tank, buffer and expansion vessels meant 1/4 of a bedroom was taken up. The final killer was the calculation said it would never pay for itself. I'm still for a heat pump and actively looking at a self install. Companies like Aria and Octopus are not helping with their attitude to the people in situations like me. (mid terrace)
The rule about 1m from the boundary has now been removed, so no longer an issue, it was always ridiculous anyway that we needed that rule for a heat pump, but gas boilers make more noise. There are solutions for the hot water, but it needs to be done on a specific house basis, a hot water cylinder is the standard, and best if suitable, but it is not the only way.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr My understanding is that the 1mtr rule is still inforce but may be removed at the end of March along with planning permission. No idea though if placing on my extension roof will be allowed . It would be hidden behind a wall that is my neighbours half of a pitched roof. I was hoping for a water tank like the one heat geeks developed. The likes of Aria etc will not offer that. Instead they will only offer massive tanks, buffers and expansion tanks. Hence may just do it myself and call in an electrician to do the wiring.
@@logik100.0 Heat pumps can be and are placed on flat roofs, however it can be difficult because of noise coming through the feet, so on the ground is usually better. The trouble with Aria etc is that you do things their way or not at all, independents like Heat Geek are likely to be better but will also be more expensive, it depends on what you can afford. If you can do it yourself then great, remember the heat loss survey, which you can do yourself if you feel capable, is the most important part.
Did it all wrong !!! Had loft insulation, fitted LED bulbs everywhere, Went Solar and PV battery install and waiting for an EV as we speak. HEat pump is on the radar but not yet a priority due to a relatively new boiler but it will happen !
Question …. If an ASHP is to cost the same as a gas boiler to run the system needs to have a COP of 4 (assuming cost per KWH for electricity is four times that of gas)?
Based on than assumption, you would be correct. You could still save money though by installing home battery storage, which is charged on a cheap over-night tariff and then used during the day to run the heat pump (and everything else) at the lower cost!
Adam mentioned something I hadn’t heard heard before to do with parity. Said that their minimum efficiency standard is 350%. Because I’ve heard all the time about 350 - 500% efficiency & boilers are about 95% efficient I thought that Ashp were another +250 efficient. Adam said that with parity, they aim for 350% as that’s equal with gas. Is this correct ? Why is 350 % ASHP = to 95% gas ? What is the parity ? Is that to do with the cost of gas v the higher cost of electricity ? So is the split gap price was changed, so electricity becomes cheaper, the % changes ? Any answers ? Cheers.
I have a Dailen 8kW heat pump being installed beginning of March - because I have decking around 2 sides of my house, and no space for the heat pump on the other 2 sides, it is being wall mounted at decking level - will I have a problem with noise transmitted through the wall ?
I am quite surprised this heat pump thing is news making. We live in NZ and heat pumps are the norm, and have been for years, most homes have them, and we have had 2 at for over a decade. It maybe that gas is not nationwide here and never has been. Also, the system looks a bit different as well, ours are just stand alone internal units, are the ones there HVAC?
Gas central heating really took off big time in UK from the 1970's onwards with the discovery of gas and oil under the North Sea. Hence the high volume of wet heating systems in use. Prior to that was town gas for some (from coal) or open coal fires for most. Commercial heat pumps have been here a long time, but new to many in the domestic market.
It’s all very good stuff and I would adopt it all in a heart beat but you still need a-lot more money than a new gas boiler to afford all the upgrades needed in an old property. It is just not affordable for most people, and I have done the heat pump training. I 100% believe in decarbonising I wish I knew the answer to the cost of it .
As an architect the fact that the public and developers are so slow in adopting low carbon measures is very annoying. Having started to learn about 'long life', 'loose fit' and 'low energy' from the late 1970s makes it even more surprising. Where are the commercial clients and developers that need an architect? I am struggling to find clients over the fake news pumped out by the press/politicians and their oil industry paymasters. 'Fabric first' has some merit when electricity is paid for based on the cost of generating it from fossil fuels. When the electricity is charged for on the basis of the cost of generating it from renewables 'fabric first' is far less important.
In Scotland fossil heating systems in new build were banned as of April 2024, presumably any after that date will have been approved prior to that date.
When there is a massive Tidal Hydro project designed, ready to go, capable of producing 90% of the UKs electricity by itself, the same cost as Hinckley C but many times more capacity, why is there no political interest?
Probably best to start with a smaller tidal barrage project to gain experience before moving to something large, start with Wyre estuary and/or Camel estuary. Establishes the supply chain in the U.K. to gain most benefit.
@ Its a ten year build. I simply don’t have the time to spend on small projects. Ive spend quite some time simulating the build process. Its a Giga project of which there already exists precedents. The Fehrmenbelt is of similar scale and complexity. Its very viable. It would end fossil fuel power generation, and it would turn us from being a major importer, to becoming a major exporter of electricity. Thus weaning the likes of Poland and Germany off their disgusting habits. Instead of sending money abroad, we actually earn money, as a nation. Its a win-win-win.
Which of the cost estimates for Hinckley Point C are you referring to? There have been a few, and any project will be subject to similar cost increases
Heat Pumps absolutely work in Canada. I have one on Vancouver Island. What I don't understand is the one use fuse box that comes with them tha I have to replace after a power surge. Is there any alternative to this. apparently it can blow and you won't know unless you go check it and the heat still runs but the next surge will kill your pump! Not sure why we can't have a permanent fuse breaker for this. Anyone know? I had to replace mine and it cost $300.
Geez I really do have ADHD. 😂😂 Aside from that, here in America very interested in heat pumps. My sister has a massive house and there heat pump they had was not awesomely efficient, and it wore out in just a short few years, something (to my mind) really messed the system up, maybe the setup made it run too hard? I dunno.
My understanding is that the initial set up does need some tweaking, but once it's adjusted correctly you can pretty much forget about it. I'm hoping to have a heat pump installed in 2025.
Great subject! My two cents is that we need much much bigger and less expensive home storage batteries! Solar panels are mainstream now, and the dual perovskite panels are going to disrupt traditional energy generation. Solar and batteries are the gateway drugs to EVs and heat pump heating and cooling! To get more citizens and landlords, etc. onboard, we need to: 1. Focus on help billions of regular citizens to get solar, batteries and EVs. One idea of mine is a green energy Gamin Bank, that could provide affordable interest loans to install solar and batteries and trade in murderous (global warming, air pollution) ICE cars and gas furnaces for EVs and heat pumps. 2. Home storage batteries are pathetically small and horribly overpriced! A fully electric home in the sunbelt will need at least 50 kWh of battery storage to keep the lights and heat on through the dark days of winter and homes in hot climates cool overnight.,The genius who can get a $10,000 dollar, 50 kWh battery on the market will bankrupt the corrupt electric utility monopolies and eventually even the mad fossil fuel cartels! 3. And solar, batteries and EVs are just the start! Paint every roof white, insulate homes and plant trees, build faster electric trains, etc. there is a lot more we can do!
Our 10 kWh home batteries cost about $10k in 2023. In 2024 we bought a used EV for $21k with a 65 kWh battery, but it doesn't have car to home power option. But whe we replace our other vehicle with an EV, I hope to get one with that option so it can as cheap battery and an occasional vehicle.
Thanks for having me on! 😊
Awesome work folks! Loved this!
Thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.
How are you getting on with Roger Bisby these days?
Looks like you managed to find some common ground in the end.
I kind of gave up with replacing my aging falling apart gas boiler with a heat pump even after being inspired by your work, partially because of cost, but also because all the heat geeks are so booked out now. I’ve gone the Octopus heat pump route now. They won’t match Heat Geek levels of SCOP but like you said, should beat our old gas combi, and it’s another small step on the way. I would love to get a Heat Geek person in the future to help maximise the system so hopefully this is something you could offer in the future.
Between Fully Charged and Heat Geek videos we installed a heat pump mid 2024 and the results have been great. The house is now fully electric with PV, batteries + MVHR and good insulation. The gas was disconnected June 2024 and so far the bills have been much lower than expected. Great work guys.
An absolute gem of a conversation, from start to finish. Huge thanks to you both
I am always amazed how much "Heat pumps don't work here" comes up in the UK context. Here, on the east coast of Canada, it's -10C and my heat pump is providing 100% of my heat (and will, even when the temp drops more.) And "Heat pumps don't work in old homes?" - my house is almost 200 years old - perhaps not old by UK standards, but older than the average UK home.
Is your heating pump an air to air ( air con) or air to water, which what is being talked about in UK
They do work, but
It isnt all about the temp either, it's about the humidity. The heat pump will work better in the dryer air of -10.then at 2 degrees in misty humid environments.The weather in the UK can cause a lot of defrosting of the unit, which sucks heat from the home, which forces the unit to work harder and go through the same process every 30mins. So Alot of the heat pumps struggle in those situations.
Lol. I live in the US south. The humidity here runs 90% even in winter. The heat pump is the only way to counter the humidity. (Air/Air)
An Air/water heat pump won’t change humidity over a gas boiler.
@@jezzaandrews1940
" So Alot of the heat pumps struggle in those situations."
======
They do not struggle, they just do what they are designed to do i.e run defrost cycles.
My house in N.E Scotland saw a cold spell of -5.5C where I am, at that it was running a defrost cycle about once every hour and a half. Typically every two to three hours at -1 Celcius.
With correct size volumizer there should be little heat 'sucked from the home' during the 5-7 minute defrost cycle on an air to water system.
My living room temperature sat at near 21C most of that time.
During that eleven day period (2nd-12th January inc') the consumption average was 1kW per hour. At 14p per hour as per my electricity tariff that is £3.36 s day, to keep my house warm 24 hours a day.
Two bedroom 1960's semi, modest insulation.
@@jezzaandrews1940 Really? I accept that high humidity probably slightly degrades the efficiency of an ASHP, but so does lower temperatures. In the UK we don't get anything like as cold temperatures as (say) Scandinavia. Also, the Heat Geek guys are achieving COPs of more than 4.0. In the UK. In all that humidity. It's just a fact that heat pumps work in the UK. Air2Air or Air2Water. I live in the Lake District. Lots of humidity there (the clue is in the name). My ASHP works fine.
Nova Scotia has months of 2 degree, misty weather - far damper than almost anywhere in the UK - and the defrosting cycle accounts for very little energy use.
No sure why there always seems to be some special reason why heat pumps don't work in a particular area, despite them working fine in other places with identical or even less favourable environments.
Here in Finland, I live in an 8 story block of flats made-up of 3 buildings with 107 flats. 5 years ago we retrofitted a heat capture system on the building's outgoing exhaust air and coupled it to a heat pump. Now 80-90% of the heating and hot water is supplied by the heat pump and only 10-20% of the heat comes from a centralised district heating grid supplied by the municipality and that only happens in the coldest weeks of the year.
I can confer this is exactly what happened to my apartment complex in North West Helsinki. The borehole all 32 of the were drilled during the summer in the communal area around the block and the pipes installed. Total time was about 3 months from start to finish.. Works perfectly
My gas heating system failed again this winter, chatting to the heating engineer I mentioned that I plan to get a heat pump next. He said I wouldn’t bother they don’t work in uk homes and you will get cold below-3. He was soon educated as I have watched every heat geek video. He was very quiet after. 😂
"ah yes, I've been warned that's what heating engineers who don't know what they're doing will tell me" - I've used this line recently and it was surprisingly effective.
Same here
Really enjoyed this one. I have transitioned to EV(2019) then solar/ Zappi (2019), Eddi (2020) ,octopus (2021) heat pump (2022), Home Assistant (2023) and Open Energy Monitor (2024) in large part because of fully charged,heat Geek and others. Thank you both for helping me along the journey.
Really great to see Adam on the show - I’m a big fan of his channel, because he is so good at articulating the case for decarbonisation in an accessible and fun way.
Interesting to hear that he did not do well in formal education because he comes over as very intelligent and passionate too.
And he is revolutionising education, albeit post-compulsory schooling and in a specific sector.
The reason: he has that passion.
Just had my Heat Pump Installed (2025) by Octopus. I asked the engineers if they knew of Heat Geek - not only did they know about Adam, they were Heat Geek qualified!! I instantly knew I was in good hands... Very pleased with the install. Am now using "Home Assistant" to monitor / refine the HP Settings (started with solar, battery, eddi). I asked Chat GPT is there was anything else I could do to improve my home... it had nothing to add ! Journey's end?
Chat GPT is not the source i would use to get a good answer. Look at when you use energy and what is using it. I guaranty you will find more. 🙂
PV Thermal Battery to preheat water for DHW tank?
If you don’t already have one, an induction cooktop is great. It’s as fast as gas without the waste heat and combustion fumes.
@@jemezname2259just got one last week.. absolutely love it! We disconnected the gas mains. So no going back!
@jemezname2259 actually I have found induction much faster
So much fantastic enthusiasm. We have an EV and a heat pump largely due to the great educational work you both do so thank you both very much and keep up the great work :-)
Fantastic chat. I’ve followed Heat Geek for a while and Adam’s passion for this subject is contagious as always. Exciting to see all of the new tech coming along.
Almost every planning application we are considering in our local planning committee have air source heat pumps.
One very large development has a district heating scheme powered by air source heat pumps.
What area, city, country sir?
Big for of Aira here too (@ 14:41), being their customer no. 1 in their UK pilot phase. Big fan of Octopus, being on their Cosy Octopus tariff. It was reassuring to see Aira Partnering with Heat Geek recently, as important the VC backed big players in the market have the same attention to detail, and focus on the correct settings, Heat Geek approved independent installers have too. Bit like the points both Adam and Robert make, when our previous boiler broke in 2014, there wasn’t a suggestion, or a question made by us about Heat Pumps. We did however have a Solar iBoost solar diverter on the Hot Water Tank at that point…the first one they’d installed in Camden, Central London📍
The thing that pushed up to Heat Pumps was a 2022 Boiler Service, the first when the Vaillant was out of it’s 7 year Manufacturer Warranty, the was a gas leak within the boiler casing (not into the house thankfully, as the Nest Protect’s would have picked that up). It took about 9 months of research before we landed on Aira for our install, a Vaillant 5kW aroTherm. Over a year in, with solar, battery and Heat Pump working in harmony (not connected in anyway, in a IoT sense…but playing nicely around low cost Cosy Octopus timings), we’ve recouped 1/3 of the Heat Pump install cost! When you consider the Heat Pump install, thanks to the BUS Grant, cost as much as our 2014 boiler install, crazy to think by 2027, we’ll be saving money in perpetuity…also boosted by the £125 / year additional saving of being off the Gas Main 💰
Thanks for another great conversation, and continued enthusiasm around this topic to engage others to make an energy transition 👍🏼
Great conversation. It's through this channel, and Adam's work that I drive EVs, have solar on the house and a heat pump has just been hung on the wall. It's taken a while to get there but for the first time I won't personally be burning anything in my day to day life.
Heat Geeks fitted our heat pump system 6th January...3.5KWH Vaillant...3 Bed Semi, EPCB, 3.7KW Heatloss, upgraded all rads (Choice), loads of hotwater, nice 20oC all the time, low bills. Its a bit costly, but it will pay back even more once the Government accepts that carbon taxes must go on gas to follow the Sweden model...
That's the problem
I'll switch after
Great conversation, thanks Robert and Adam. Emphasises the need for elec price to be separated from gas to turn this ripple into a tidal wave.
Yes, get rid of the ridiculous "spark gap" and heat pumps become a complete no-brainer.
Excellent video. Adam is a fantastic guy.
They should get you on Allen too
@ Adam did invite me down to London for a video but unfortunately I couldn’t justify the time and cost to be away from home. It was an honour to be invited though
Really enjoyed this talk, normally as an engineer I just want more technical detail. However Adam story of how he is so enthusiastic about heating with heat pumps makes him such an inspiration for young engineers, well done Robert and Adam.
Thanks again for another great podcast.
I have followed both Fully Charged and Heat Geek on heat pumps.
I live in Alberta Canada who burn baby burn. I had over 5 different quotes before I committed to a air to air heat pump. I was needing a A/C anyway, and I could get a grant on a heat pump but not a A/C, so it was a no brainer. Here in Alberta, part of the grant qualifications, we have to have a backup heating system due to the -30 & 40’C winter temperatures.
The problem was that my choice of installer could not guarantee that the system they installed qualified for the grant. As a result I went for my second choice, they would qualify. Big mistake. This company was clueless. After three months I had them take there system out and I had my first choice company install the heat pump. Both heat pumps were perfect for the job, it was just the lack of knowledge of the first installers, which give heat pumps a bad rap.
Excellent Robert, in so many ways
Fantastic conversation to follow, hopefully seen by many who are still unsure about heat pumps. Our project (Solar PV, home battery, EV charger & heat pump with heat battery, no tank) was done in early September 2023. After the first year, our annual electricity bill went from ca. £2,800 to £1,000, and it is now including 'petrol' 😉. And that is with a SOP of 'only' 3.5, because the main house is an end-of-terrace Victorian cottage with solid, non-insulated walls.
Great to see Adam on the podcast. Good videos by heat geek/sceptic skill builder channels with them fixing a bad old heat pump installation. Skill Builder is still sceptical even after shown the proof that heat pumps work.
Yes, it's surprising isn't it, that Roger isn't entirely persuaded.
Thanks for brightening my Monday 🙂 I love your (green) energy !
Knowledge, wisdom, and fun. Really enjoyed this. Thanks!
So informative. The Heat Geek website and heating engineer map is great. So clear and reassuring. I’m so close to committing to an ASHP. I just need to tidy the house up so they can survey properly.😊
My journey was, 2020 solar and battery (Tesla), 2021 EV and Zappi, 2023, induction hob and air to air heating, 2024, Mixergy heatpump hot water cylinder. Octopus agile, and investments in Ripple energy. My choice to make all this investment, don’t really mind if I don’t make money back, I never thought when I put a gas boiler in in 2007 I would make money. If you can do it, do, we can’t wait for governments t whilst they faff around changing mind on targets etc. most of these decisions thanks to the Fully Charged Show! Thank you!
Can't agree with you more about Government's faffing around - especially the US under tRump pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord and wanting to abolish Wind Turbines etc, completely bonkers - but that's the other side of the Atlantic. Over here we've got a Government that is actually dis-incentivising EV's (Road Tax and Luxury car tax), EV's are still more expensive to build than ICE cars so there should be an allowance for this. Not regulating the highway robbery in the EV charging industry where the likes of Shell want to charge the same per mile as an Ice car.
Our Government should take a hard look at what they spend 'OUR Money' on before raising Taxes on everyone!
Yes Adam and Heat Geek are AMAZING!!!!👍
Really splendid episode. This is one of those I will come back to again and again. Adam Chapman is a breath of fresh air. And Robert, I too was very academic - top of the class, etc.. and it all fell apart in my last couple of years. I did go to University as a mature student in my 40s, to study the environment and came away with an average degree, but the die had been cast long before. It makes me happy that you do what you do. 👍
Another great episode. Positivity abounds with an inspiring add on at the end about neuro diversity. Thanks
I think the Centigrade temperature scale has caused damage to heat pump technology. People think that there's not a lot of heat energy in 12°C air/water compared to the 20°C of a house. But in Kelvin that's 285 K vs 293 K. You could argue it's only ~3% difference.
LONG overdue episode with Matt!
Thanks so much for this guys. Excellent episode!
Just what i needed on a wet and miserable Monday morning.
We need heat geek x everything electric installing a ASHP at bobby's house.
Brilliant podcast, thank you! Especially interesting to me at the moment as I'm in the process of making the switch from a gas boiler to a heat pump. There are lots of people/videos etc telling me why heat pumps are a mistake, lots from the same people who tell me that my electric car will catch fire v soon, will need a new battery tomorrow, and there aren't any chargers anywhere. I've been driving EVs for 5 years...
I have already converted my 1940’s house, in sunny Lithgow Australia. Gas has gone, helped by a 4 week gas outage some 4 years ago. I have a reverse cycle aircon system for heating/cooling and a heat pump hot water system (that I am now going to turn down) as well as a 10Kw solar and a Tesla Powerwall battery. Next, it’s been ordered, is a Tesla Model Y LR. Keep up the good work.
What I would recommend is that you throw away the tepio boiler and get a far more efficient heat pump. I employed Heat Geek and achieve a SCOP of 4.7!
Thank you for bringing the USA the fresh perspective. PS you were the first podcast I ever watched and then I went to Sandy Monroe and I went to Pete Gruber and it went to Brian White and so on but it did start with you so thank you the Highlander.😊 please remember the Highlander model kindness is always free😊
I have helped two apprentices through their apprentice degrees. This is a brilliant option as they have a blend of the academic and practical. Would recommend to anyone.
Can you explain what an apprentice Degree is ? I did a 4 year apprenticeship and then a 4 year engineering degree, so unlike 99% of the fitters, plumbers and technicians installing heat pumps, I have actually earned the right to be called an Engineer
A most enjoyable hour given the enthusiasm.
Although I understood Adam's point on not requiring insulation to install a heat-pump, he might have better explained the downsides - You end up with a much bigger unit than would otherwise be required with higher running costs, all for the sake of a one off cost which is there forever - I insulated mine DIY on a 12 year old house, bringing consumption down to 25% for under 2 grand.
If we don't improve home efficiency, grid capacity will become the limiting factor for uptake in heat pumps all the quicker. - And let's face it, HMG are not noted for forward thinking other than for their own benefit....
Where I am in europe there are no grants, the power supply is max 65A and unreliable, and with heat pumps being at 3 times the price of an equivalent gas boiler, when mine blew at -6c, it was a new gas boiler.
The upside of it was Adam's clear explanation of low heat and larger rads, and I'm forever grateful for it - New upgraded rads in over summer, now running continuous heating - My boiler sees a return of max 23c when it's -10, and the room temps flat as a pancake at their individual temps except for upstairs at ca +/-0.5c. I don't expect it to change much when the big freeze lands, so one very happy and cosy homeowner.
Keep up the good work both, and more power to your elbows....
Love it when 2 of my favourite TH-cam channels come together!
The part about Adam being the UK's biggest hydrogen installer then switching to heat pumps is going to be my go to comment whenever anyone says they'll replace their boiler with a hydrogen ready one!
Great podcast. Adam is inspirational.
Nice, two of the channels i am subscribed to in one video !
I had a 35 year Vallaint boiler that I wanted to replace in spring with heat pump. The Vallaint failed just a few months ago (October) with parts that had been declared obsolete by Vallaint (an £80 diaphragm disc) - which meant it could not be patched to carry on even until spring.
Minimum quote time was 12 weeks to fit a heat pump. I wasn't going to wait 3 months through winter without any heating so now I have a new gas boiler (fitted in a week) and therefore won't be getting heat pump any time soon. Not enough heat pump engineers out there (or if there are they can't work fast enough)
Loved his take on things. Excellent!
Robert on the green screen? Was there a party going on somewhere? Sports perhaps?
Great video really enjoyed this video.
I wanted a heat pump but I was put off by the Octopus assessor who said my insulation wasn’t good enough and heat loss was to much. Thanks for clarifying things.
Heat Geek, please come to the US! Please, please, please!
Such a good episode!
I was clearing out some old paperwork today and came across our annual electricity and gas bill from 2013, in todays prices this would have been £2200 for last year, our actual bill last year was as close to zero as makes no difference, we now have Solar, batteries, run two EVs and heat the house with a heat pump, very happy with the result!
👋 THANKS ROBERT ,ADAM FOR RANTING ON 😅 ABOUT HEAT PUMPS AND EDUCATING 🧐 ENGINEERS🤗⚡️⚡️⚡️
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for sharing.
We have Solar PV, battery and heat pump in a 1910 stone house. We top up with wood burners if needed but seem to use them less and less as we add insulation. Our oil boiler and oil tank were at end of life so a heat pump made a lot of sense rather than locking into another 20 years of fossil fuels. Feel lucky heat pump tech in the UK had got to where it was in time for us to switch.
I'm about to move and will be going the full electrification route. Great timing to hear about Heat Geek.
I put in an air to air unit here in NW Michigan by myself to replace the baseboard resistive electric heat and window unit AC in this room. It is working well, heating warmer rather than saving heating costs. The only annoying part is when it goes into defrost mode periodically, I may put in a second unit in the main room which would make that heating gap less noticable. With a metal roof, cooling is not a problem, even the little window unit was adequate, but the heat pump does an exceptional job at dehumidification so my dehumidifiers don't run much anymore.
Excellent
Roberino has the Tepeo, 85%n efficient (it leaks heat at 15% each day), its less efficient than a new gas boiler and need to charge 40KWH off peak, He'd be better off mothballing it and getting Adam in to put a good ASHP. He could get the Urban Plumber guy in to do the job and then show it at the Everything Electric Shows..
He also has a large solar array so I'm sure he's best use of it.
Congratulations on cramming so many factual inaccuracies about the tepeo ZEB into a single sentence. 👍🎉
What a great video.
I am electric only, and am thinking of DIY internal Insulation. and a small air to air heat pump of the sort that plugs into the mains with a normal three pin plug. I would like to raise my normal winter time temperature from between 8 and 10 degrees C, but I would not want it warmer than 15 degrees. At that only in my front room. I always have all the internal doors open at night so the heat would spread out a bit ...
The advantage of DIY insulation [based on the Rock-wool] pads is that I can do small sections as I can afford it. I own the Lease on a flat in a building built in 1836 with stone walls about 20 inches thick, dry lined, but not a stitch of insulation! I have no access to the loft void, but would do the ceilings the same way as the walls, even though I'm right under the roof. The rooms are too high, so lowering the ceilings a bit would be a benefit.
The other thing I would like to have is a 5KW battery to harvest the cheaper night rate electric, and use that throughout the day. I daresay that even these aspirations are beyond my budget!
No chance of Solar, sadly.
Best wishes from George
I look forward to the heat geek episode with Bobby
Great podcast, one of my favourites to date. One question for Adam; I have an ASHP already installed. Can I have the install 'audited' by a Heat Geek engineer and then annually serviced?
Hey, yes sure, just google ‘find a heat geek’
This is great video and absolutely enjoyed it. I am keen to learn more about the mini store, we have a tank already with our heat pump but would be a great add on, should we run out of hot water. Oh BTW our heat was installed by octopus and has been brilliant ❤❤
Heat Geek need to talk to my housing association plumber, he is the cork stopping 200 heat pumps, but he won't be swayed , I' ve tried. Also, what a fantastic guest, I appreciate anyone who is passionate about their thing. I would watch a talk about spiders legs if the person was as passionate about their subject. Top bloke x2
I guess the viewers really need to already know exactly what a heat pump is before watching this possible enlightening episode!
They mention that it’s the same tech which runs your refrigerator. Just in reverse.
There are plenty of introductory videos on this topic, keeping repeating this would make the video much longer and tedious for those who already know.
Education policy is the reason we don’t have engineers. I am 60 this year and my school had lathes, full engineering workshops and woodworking equipment. Now we don’t. What do the politicians expect? If you don’t train people then how are they supposed to know anything. Not everyone is academic but it doesn’t make them thick.
Big fan of the EES & Heatgeeks. in the past there was a video interviewing a gentleman from NatGrid, explaining how the grid can cope with a world of 100% EVs. Can we have the equivalent for a world of 100% Heat pumps. The other day Wind capacity was very low and conventional gas was taking up the slack.
Even if all electricity were produced using gas the heat pump is still a winner in terms of CO2 footprint compared to a gas boiler in every house.
As it is, without renewables the UK would have to treble its gas imports, given that renewables provide @ 40% electricity over the year at present (as does gas roughly speaking) and that UK imports about half the gas needed from Norwegian sector of Nth Sea.
@_Dougaldog from my back of the napkins calculation a couple of weeks ago when we had a cold snap the demand on the Nat Grid demand with all current gas heating converted to heat pumps would have been circa 80Gw. This would be 35Gw over the Gas power capacity available to the UK grid. So you agree that in order to go 100% heat pump the UK will need to double its CCGT. Clearly my calculations are not to be taken seriously, I would like to hear from someone in the know; How will this work, is there a route plan to overcome the obvious hurdles.
@
Unlikely that UK would double its CCGT production, so on that I would not agree.
Many of these HPs will be supplied through local Solar PV during the less demanding months, reducing the demand on the grid. Likewise during peak periods supplied from local storage be it home batteries, EV to grid, or some other of a multitude of localised storage mediums. Once again reducing demand on grid. There are a significant number that are already self sufficient for electricity needs.
Your napkin calculations pale in comparison aside the time immemorial 'Fag packet' method.....
The biggest issue with new builds locally in Sussex is UKPN don't have the electrical infrastructure for some of the new build sights so it's been quicker and cheaper to put in gas to them. Investment in infrastructure is so far behind where we need to be for net zero it's ridiculous.
38:53 - Surely there should be a nice visual flow chart for people to follow so tehy know what steps to take first. If this then this type. Forgot to add, great episode! Could watch you 2 talk all day.
I have a all in one heat pump/ ac unit in my living room. It has no outside unit just require two large holes through the wall. My livingroom was always cold even with the heating on. Now its lovely and very cheap to run. Once it gets the room to temperature which doesnt have a door so really most of downstairs it ticks over at 200w or so. A 400w heater couldnt keeo the room even remotely warm so we can guess from that that its getting atleast 2cop but id assume far more and is rated to get 3.6. we always had a portable ac unit in the summer so thought why not upgrade and have a more efficient ac unit and some heating. For less than £1k i cant faulit it and im sure two of these would heat a house quite happily. Now i think we could get more people to get heat pump if it was air to air because you then get the benefit of ac during the summer. The government need to change the rules on the grant scheme. We have an abundance of clean energy in the summer anyway so why dont we use it. Ac also has the benefit of keeping houses dry lowering mould and improving peoples living conditions.
You talking about air-to-air. These are one type of "air source HPs" as are the air-to-water HPs mainly promoted in UK.
They are both AIR SOURCE but the delivery is either by air (yours), or water (gas boiler replacement system).
@asilver2889 you are correct I knew that, obviously weren't concentrating enough and have now corrected cheers.
No way! I was thinking you guys neeeded to do this crossover.
In California we use heat pumps for heating and cooling. We just connect them to air handlers instead of radiators.
We were installing Heat Pumps 16 years ago , in pub cellars to heat their water (while cooling the beer). Think we were 15 years too soon!
I also started and ran a company called INVESTINPOTENTIAL for 12 years which aimed to get teenagers to find their true potential -with or without University!
Deeply dislike the way the conversation about running costs so rarely goes to "but of course if electricity was reasonably priced in the UK, it wouldn't be even close on term of running cost Vs gas."
Most relevant comment here should be liked by everyone.
I know they are on about adjusting the spark gap over a 10 year period on the gov website but that's not effective enough.
What we don't want to do is raise gas to put people in fuel poverty though.
Absolutely right - the price of electricity is set by the highest cost by source, which is electricity generated from burning gas. A lower price for electricity would benefit heat pumps, but would reduce profits from solar PV, wind turbines and nuclear etc.
A well installed heat pump is 5x more efficient than a gas boiler which more that compensates for the price difference between gas and electricty. Youe bills won’t be massively cheaper but because of the efficiency difference, your carbon footprint will ne massively reduced.
Yes. The UK should phaseout gas power plants urgently.
@@crm114. Your be lucky to hit a SCOP of 5 that's a very very precise install.
Mine does go over 4 and near 5 in summer but the cold months it's more like 3 to 4 at best.
Hope you will cover the temperature they can go, I am in Canada where we can have -40 degrees Celsius. Most heat pump were rated to -20 degrees Celsius. We build this home 5 years ago and local plumbers said in Ontario Canada we remove eat pumps we do not install them. Electricity is expensive in Ontario.
Excited about this as I'm saving up to get a Cosy 6 from Octopus but am put off by having to have a big cylinder in the loft (for the last fifteen years I've had a gas combi boiler). One of those Mini Stores that fits in a kitchen cupboard would be ideal if Octopus are prepared to adopt them as part of the package.
Yes, if space is at a premium, heat batteries are a great solution. Our Sunamp Thermino is a 3rd of the size of an equivalent water tank - and you don't need to worry about legionella cycles either.
Great thumbnail, not quite sure why robert is dressed as toad from toad hall though 😂
Robert, any chance you can add a link in the summary to the HeatGeeks hydrogen video you referenced around 44 minutes into this episode? I have searched for HeatGeeks hydogen and there are a few videos, just want to make sure I get the right one as it sounds interesting. Thanks. Great episode by the way :)
I think he's referring to the Heat Geek "The Great Hydrogen Boiler Con" video -- th-cam.com/video/vwkANJME3Ok/w-d-xo.htmlsi=lSM9mW9FBmocfPCT
I just found out that it's a legal requirement in the UK that gas boilers must be installed with a maximum central heating temperature of 55°C. That's so that it's in condensing mode, but that's also comfortably in heat pump range.
It's far too slow, but at least the people who refuse to consider a heat pump are legally required to make the changes that make them even more attractive as an option to replace your boiler.
I live in Sydney. For at least the last 25 years we have had 'reverse-cycle air conditioning' in our house, as do many many people. It heats in the winter and cools in the summer. I think that they can handle outside temps down to as much as -10 C (never happens here). I can't understand what is novel about heat pumps. What am I missing?
Rondo Heat Battery looks very interesting for industrial heat.
Find it kind of crazy these people haven't done a joint video until now..
The biggest problem in UK for heat pumps is cost. We have one of highest electricity prices in Europe and cheap gas. Electric price is 4-5* higher than gas /kWh so unless got solar panels or 400-500% heat pump is more expensive
This is why I love Everything Electric YouTubing...Gold Star⭐
School of hard knocks Adam, Love your comments on dyslexia and the flaws of education.
What do you make of Dale Vince's ashp reservations?
He's saying that the overall scop average of ashp installations in the UK is only about 2.5.
Have a look at Heat Pump Monitor website for some near real time stats and draw your own conclusions.
Shame about the audio quality ( too much background noise - earpods just don't work well enough ), but otherwise a great listen.
had no problem with audio quality on my cheapo £15 bluetooth headphones
District heating. Using industrial waste heat, rubbish burning (better than landfill), heat pump taking heat from sewage water... do you have district heating in the UK?
Why is burning waste better than landfill when it comes to atmospheric pollution?
Note, I understand that it's important to take out organic waste to avoid methane formation so assume that everyone is putting their organic waste in green bins...
@@michaelrch methane, lots of methane
@ I gave the caveat of removing organic waste. That is what generates the methane.
What else?
There are some - here's a video they did on a business district heating th-cam.com/video/4YH1-WCBhZo/w-d-xo.html
The most important part of this interview was the positive depiction of neuro diversity. I want engineers to be neuro diverse, I want every single nut or bolt to be tightened exactly to specification rather than what my non neuro diverse friends would do. A few years ago a friend was putting up a kids climbing structure. They had a load of nuts and washers left over, didn't bother them, it bothered me, I took it apart and rebuilt it. Had it remaining as it was, it would have collapsed the first time it was climbed on. Please please please go round the schools and colleges and help open their eyes to the potential there in.
I'm absolutely for heat pumps and got a firm in to quote. But was told my preferred flat roof location for the heat pump was not acceptable. The 1 mtr rule from the boundary means you have to place it almost in the middle of the garden.Then to place the massive water tank, buffer and expansion vessels meant 1/4 of a bedroom was taken up. The final killer was the calculation said it would never pay for itself.
I'm still for a heat pump and actively looking at a self install. Companies like Aria and Octopus are not helping with their attitude to the people in situations like me. (mid terrace)
The rule about 1m from the boundary has now been removed, so no longer an issue, it was always ridiculous anyway that we needed that rule for a heat pump, but gas boilers make more noise.
There are solutions for the hot water, but it needs to be done on a specific house basis, a hot water cylinder is the standard, and best if suitable, but it is not the only way.
@@MentalLentil-ev9jr My understanding is that the 1mtr rule is still inforce but may be removed at the end of March along with planning permission.
No idea though if placing on my extension roof will be allowed . It would be hidden behind a wall that is my neighbours half of a pitched roof.
I was hoping for a water tank like the one heat geeks developed. The likes of Aria etc will not offer that. Instead they will only offer massive tanks, buffers and expansion tanks.
Hence may just do it myself and call in an electrician to do the wiring.
@@logik100.0 Heat pumps can be and are placed on flat roofs, however it can be difficult because of noise coming through the feet, so on the ground is usually better.
The trouble with Aria etc is that you do things their way or not at all, independents like Heat Geek are likely to be better but will also be more expensive, it depends on what you can afford. If you can do it yourself then great, remember the heat loss survey, which you can do yourself if you feel capable, is the most important part.
Did it all wrong !!! Had loft insulation, fitted LED bulbs everywhere, Went Solar and PV battery install and waiting for an EV as we speak. HEat pump is on the radar but not yet a priority due to a relatively new boiler but it will happen !
Question …. If an ASHP is to cost the same as a gas boiler to run the system needs to have a COP of 4 (assuming cost per KWH for electricity is four times that of gas)?
Based on than assumption, you would be correct. You could still save money though by installing home battery storage, which is charged on a cheap over-night tariff and then used during the day to run the heat pump (and everything else) at the lower cost!
What I take is the future difference between owner occupiers and rented property in heating efficiency.
Adam mentioned something I hadn’t heard heard before to do with parity.
Said that their minimum efficiency standard is 350%. Because I’ve heard all the time about 350 - 500% efficiency & boilers are about 95% efficient I thought that Ashp were another +250 efficient.
Adam said that with parity, they aim for 350% as that’s equal with gas. Is this correct ? Why is 350 % ASHP = to 95% gas ? What is the parity ? Is that to do with the cost of gas v the higher cost of electricity ? So is the split gap price was changed, so electricity becomes cheaper, the % changes ?
Any answers ? Cheers.
Yes 350 parity. Boilers aren’t 95% efficient though they’re 80-85 average throughout the year. Boilers MAX is 95% efficient.
I have a Dailen 8kW heat pump being installed beginning of March - because I have decking around 2 sides of my house, and no space for the heat pump on the other 2 sides, it is being wall mounted at decking level - will I have a problem with noise transmitted through the wall ?
I am quite surprised this heat pump thing is news making. We live in NZ and heat pumps are the norm, and have been for years, most homes have them, and we have had 2 at for over a decade. It maybe that gas is not nationwide here and never has been. Also, the system looks a bit different as well, ours are just stand alone internal units, are the ones there HVAC?
Gas central heating really took off big time in UK from the 1970's onwards with the discovery of gas and oil under the North Sea. Hence the high volume of wet heating systems in use.
Prior to that was town gas for some (from coal) or open coal fires for most.
Commercial heat pumps have been here a long time, but new to many in the domestic market.
It’s all very good stuff and I would adopt it all in a heart beat but you still need a-lot more money than a new gas boiler to afford all the upgrades needed in an old property.
It is just not affordable for most people, and I have done the heat pump training.
I 100% believe in decarbonising I wish I knew the answer to the cost of it .
As an architect the fact that the public and developers are so slow in adopting low carbon measures is very annoying. Having started to learn about 'long life', 'loose fit' and 'low energy' from the late 1970s makes it even more surprising. Where are the commercial clients and developers that need an architect? I am struggling to find clients over the fake news pumped out by the press/politicians and their oil industry paymasters.
'Fabric first' has some merit when electricity is paid for based on the cost of generating it from fossil fuels. When the electricity is charged for on the basis of the cost of generating it from renewables 'fabric first' is far less important.
In Scotland fossil heating systems in new build were banned as of April 2024, presumably any after that date will have been approved prior to that date.
we have 1930s semi heated and cooled in summer using split ac/heat units. £30 per month in winter both elec + gas
When there is a massive Tidal Hydro project designed, ready to go, capable of producing 90% of the UKs electricity by itself, the same cost as Hinckley C but many times more capacity, why is there no political interest?
Also for the cost of Hinckley C we could equip every UK house with a solar installation.
Probably best to start with a smaller tidal barrage project to gain experience before moving to something large, start with Wyre estuary and/or Camel estuary. Establishes the supply chain in the U.K. to gain most benefit.
@ Its a ten year build. I simply don’t have the time to spend on small projects. Ive spend quite some time simulating the build process. Its a Giga project of which there already exists precedents. The Fehrmenbelt is of similar scale and complexity. Its very viable. It would end fossil fuel power generation, and it would turn us from being a major importer, to becoming a major exporter of electricity. Thus weaning the likes of Poland and Germany off their disgusting habits. Instead of sending money abroad, we actually earn money, as a nation. Its a win-win-win.
@@davidwebb4904It's OK David, you won't be personally involved in every single solar installation.
Which of the cost estimates for Hinckley Point C are you referring to? There have been a few, and any project will be subject to similar cost increases
Heat Pumps absolutely work in Canada. I have one on Vancouver Island. What I don't understand is the one use fuse box that comes with them tha I have to replace after a power surge. Is there any alternative to this. apparently it can blow and you won't know unless you go check it and the heat still runs but the next surge will kill your pump! Not sure why we can't have a permanent fuse breaker for this. Anyone know? I had to replace mine and it cost $300.
Geez I really do have ADHD. 😂😂
Aside from that, here in America very interested in heat pumps. My sister has a massive house and there heat pump they had was not awesomely efficient, and it wore out in just a short few years, something (to my mind) really messed the system up, maybe the setup made it run too hard? I dunno.
My understanding is that the initial set up does need some tweaking, but once it's adjusted correctly you can pretty much forget about it.
I'm hoping to have a heat pump installed in 2025.
Great subject! My two cents is that we need much much bigger and less expensive home storage batteries! Solar panels are mainstream now, and the dual perovskite panels are going to disrupt traditional energy generation. Solar and batteries are the gateway drugs to EVs and heat pump heating and cooling! To get more citizens and landlords, etc. onboard, we need to:
1. Focus on help billions of regular citizens to get solar, batteries and EVs. One idea of mine is a green energy Gamin Bank, that could provide affordable interest loans to install solar and batteries and trade in murderous (global warming, air pollution) ICE cars and gas furnaces for EVs and heat pumps.
2. Home storage batteries are pathetically small and horribly overpriced! A fully electric home in the sunbelt will need at least 50 kWh of battery storage to keep the lights and heat on through the dark days of winter and homes in hot climates cool overnight.,The genius who can get a $10,000 dollar, 50 kWh battery on the market will bankrupt the corrupt electric utility monopolies and eventually even the mad fossil fuel cartels!
3. And solar, batteries and EVs are just the start! Paint every roof white, insulate homes and plant trees, build faster electric trains, etc. there is a lot more we can do!
You can get stackable 5.12kwh lfp modules for £800 Inc tax now. 10 of those and an inverter/charger is getting very close to your $10,000 target.
Our 10 kWh home batteries cost about $10k in 2023.
In 2024 we bought a used EV for $21k with a 65 kWh battery, but it doesn't have car to home power option.
But whe we replace our other vehicle with an EV, I hope to get one with that option so it can as cheap battery and an occasional vehicle.
Or enforce all EVs must support V2G.