113. Rule Scenarios - Foul and a miss
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2018
- Second of two videos in which Barry demonstrates scenarios where the rules of the game can come into question. This video talks about the 'foul and miss' rule. The first rule scenarios video 112 talks about the 'free ball' and 'touching ball' rules.
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Dear Barry, a wonderful video as always. This is just my opinion though, but I very much preferred your original intro, without the techno music. I just feel like it better suits the feel of your own videos, nice and calm. This newer one just seems a little too pumped up, if you know what I mean. Just my own preference, but thought I'd share. Cheers
I agree, that's the only thing I was disappointed with in this video!
Second that. This is a fantastic video as always, but please go back to the old intro. This one is too energetic and, I'm sorry, a bit cheesy. The old one was classy and matched the calm, clear main part of the video. Thank you very much!
This was very insightful! Thanks Barry and the entire team for bringing this to us ... just washed every confusion that i had over these months as I’m fairly new to the game.. great video again really appreciate the content👍🏻
I just LOVE the way you explain things Barry :) Great video as always!
Fascinating. It adds another level of enjoyment to the game when these situations pop up. As a scientist I live in one world but then its fun to step through the door into the Snooker Universe. Its like being privy to a secret society.The 'rules 'only have meaning in the context of that special place shared by Snooker players and fans. Much appreciated from Canada.
"Professional players do not cheat" , however much they abuse the rules.
Dear Barry, I care not what music you play as the intro to your videos, it's the content of the video I care about which is always top notch, keep up the great work 👍
Very interesting as always, but I'm also one of those who prefer the old music intro that fits better with the atmosphere of the video...Of course, it's a matter of taste :-)
Excellent explanation of the rules Barry. It's worth mentioning that the referee also has the discretion to not call a miss - if they believe the snooker is impossible to escape, or the player made their absolute best attempt to escape it.
Ben. You are right Ben it is worth mentioning and I should have done so in the video. However, I sometimes wonder if that rule is ever going to be applied again in the modern game.
Correct, it's a foul, and the red stays down. Reds are essentially never re-spotted, since they don't have their own spot to go on. Once the red leaves the playing surface for any reason (including if it flew off the table), it's down.
A Very succinct demonstration and vividly explained Mr Stark🤜🏻🤛🏻
Love this channel Barry!
Thank you, Mr Stark. I am just watching your wonderful game for the 1st time, and saw a player shoot the same shot 6 times....wow, was I confused! I read it in the rules, but you explaining it made it much better.
Edward, The rules written down can be a little confusing, for example Section three, rule 14, paragraph (b) may cover every aspect but it seems on occasions only referees interpret them correctly.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach I am enjoying watching, Thanks again, stay healthy! I am sure you have seen MANY great players, but DANG, Ronnie O'Sullivan is great to watch!
Hope you are well Barry! Another great video. This will put a huge amount of disagreement to bed at my local club! Cheers 👍
Excellent video!! Thank you!
Thank u Barry for the great work and u have helped me realise my errors in my game and I am following your videos and they have helped my with my cueing and I am getting a straighter cueing action more and more
The Jester. Glad to help, well done.
Your an inspirational snooker teacher Barry you always teach people and the children how it’s done
Skullymalone. I try, I know how difficult this game is and how important it is to get the basics right. The better you get at the game the harder it becomes to find that next little bit of improvement, most people need that little bit of help along the way. I think one thing to always bear in mind is that------ What you do and what you think you do are often two different things.
I think Barry's explanation is very clear including his explanation of how central contact on the on ball means you must hit an on ball and if you don't then after the cue ball has been put back twice then the referee will warn the striker that a third miss will result in the loss of the frame. There are a few things I think were not made enough clear, Barry correctly says that there is only one set of rules and they apply the same to all players, I also agree with his comment that some local leagues limit the number of miss calls that can be made, that gets done in many places and it is perfectly acceptable under the rules. The first thing I wanted to make very clear is that if a player cannot hit the on ball then its not a miss. The reason is that the rule is very clear when it says that the player shall 'Endeavour' to hit the on ball, "Endeavour to hit according to ability" does not mean 'must hit it' it means do your best to hit it as the rules take into account that all players are not the same and they don't have the same ability, so a simple way to think about the miss rule is to include in your thinking that 'its only a miss if you can hit it but you don't' and the referee can explore your ability a few times by adding its a Miss too, to see if he thinks you are doing your best to hit it or not, when he sees that you are doing your best and you can't hit it, then he should stop calling the failure as being a miss and just say foul, if a referee keeps calling it as a miss when its clear you can't hit it, then he is in error. The second thing is that this rule was brought into the game to stop cheating as many players including top players would just miss deliberately and play a stroke that limits the damage to themselves by deliberately missing the on ball and leaving the cue ball safe, doing that is cheating and something had to be done to make clear that if you can hit the on ball then you must hit it and rolling the cue ball safe is totally unacceptable. Golf has rules, all sport do, and Cue Sports have rules too. At lower levels of the game some beginner players say "why should I be called a having played a miss when I am a 3rd class or 4th class beginner player? The reason is that the rules are the same for all players and you cannot just make a zero effort attempt by rolling the cue ball onto a cushion when you know it wont go close, doing that is cheating, you have to try to hit and if you do your best and you cant hit it then it's not a miss, one thing that should make a player happy is that by doing you best to hit it, then you will become a better player, and you will start hitting it more often, not trying to hit it is cheating. N
Even if the player misses on purpose and plays cue ball safe the opposite player can make him to play again can't he?
Well explained Barry 👍👍👍
I remember anouther incident with Ronnie when the cue ball was in the middle of a group of reds and his failed escape attempts were called a miss a few times then without hitting the cue ball he fouled a red with the under edge of his cue and broke the sequence, being able to escape the provisions of the F&A M rule that way has been stopped, Many people have below pointed out that the hole in the rules has been blocked (14. Foul and a Miss (e) After the cue-ball has been replaced under this Rule, and the striker fouls any ball, including the cue-ball while preparing to play a stroke, a miss will not be called if a stroke has not been played. In this case the appropriate penalty will be imposed. The next player may then elect to play himself or ask the offender to play again from the position left or the original position. If being asked to play again, the ball on shall be the same as prior to the last stroke made, namely: (i) any Red, where Red was the ball on; (ii) the colour on, where all Reds were off the table; or (iii) a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a Red had been potted. N
Love you Barry ❤️
Barry...it was in 2008 i met Ronnie and we talked about the foul and miss and and how frustrated he was being put back in when he has made a genuine attempt at the ball on. I was a referee back home (southern hemisphere) of some standing. I told him that you could get around that rule by fouling while on the ball on. Him and all his mates around him said how???...they were all agasp....i told him the foul ends the players turn and the other player has his turn. Well blow me down, i'm sitting at home watching the game between John and Ronnie and i see him doing it!!!!....i was jumping about at home saying i told Ronnie a year ago ago to my wife....so i feel i am a part of history...did Ronnie cheat...no...he just made use of a flaw in the rules that i told him...btw the rule as regards this particular situation has been amended and the miss is awarded now...
@Nick Fallon Truly amazing story. Regarding to the situations where the fouls are making intentional there is a one rule which says that when the referee is sure that the foul was made intentional in the opposite to the attempt of a "good shot" that can achieve the ball on THEN he is free to make a decision of "foul and a miss" even if the difference of points between the players is higher than the maximum points they can get from the table.
Nick. Your story just shows how small this little old world is.
Love the club anthem starting the videos now, wakes you right up.
I remember a short Mark Williams played once where he potted the blue and ended up touching ball on a red. There was another red over a pocket but it was obscured by the Black. Mark Williams very quickly decided to plant the black onto the red over the pocket and potted it. I thought it showed great imagination to think of playing it and be aware of the rules on a touching ball so quickly
EBO. Mark has had many years of experience and he would recognise his options almost immediately.
Very well explained!
sundowner. Many thanks.
Clearly there's a lot more i need to learn. Thanks for the "heads up".
Kevin. You never stop learning at this game.
But, because the rules gave John the opportunity to either play the shot or make Ronnie play it, it was still a fair outcome to be decided by John Higgins. If there was a red on, he could have played it, or if there was a good chance of a safety, he could play that. If there wasn't a red on or a good chance at a safety, he could make Ronnie play it. That's one reason why I love snooker!! Thanks Barry!!
On the first situation I always thought that the player had to be able to touch the 2 edges of the ball as with the rule of the free ball, I was wrong.
Thank you for all your videos
Guillaume. My pleasure, lots of players misinterpret some of the rules, so don't worry.
hi Barry, been following this channel from quite some time now. and I think you should dearly consider the original Intro.
Thanks barry😊
as i put my bridge arm on table the cue goes offline, the cue butt goes towards bridge arm, i tried to slide through my bridge arm on table but still cue goes offline.
do you touch the bridge arm to table first or first you put the chin and chest on cue then the bridge arm , the birdge hand ofcourse has to be first but im talking about bridge arm
thank you
@Afghan. You should try to put the cue on the line of aim and then take up your position without moving the cue off line. This will be tricky at first but you will, with perseverance, soon find a way of doing this that is comfortable for you.
Barry, In my local club, at least for lower grades, the miss rule is only applied, from a snookered position, if a player fails to reach the ball he was aiming for. If he reaches or passes the ball a miss is not awarded, whether he misses by a millimeter or a metre. It is considered that the player has made a genuine attempt to hit the ball, so a miss is not awarded. Comments?
I also remember seeing a match where Mark Selby was in a very difficult snooker. He failed to reach the ball he was aiming for twice and a miss was adjudged on both occasions. On the third attempt he reached the ball, but missed by a millimeter or two and a miss was not adjudged. A discussion regarded this as good/brave refereeing. Again Comments?
Andrew. I would certainly feel aggrieved if a player missed by a metre and a miss wasn't called, that would certainly be open to abuse, However, the rest of the explanation is reasonably fair at lower levels, I still prefer the rule at lower levels where three misses are the maximum. On the question where Mark was snookered, at professional level it is accepted that if the player does not reach the ball a miss will be called, except in exceptional circumstances a miss will also be called if the player does not hit the ball, in the case you mentioned the snooker was very difficult and the referee still has the power to not call a miss.
Hi Barry I played a match last night
I was 7point behind when the other guy put the white in the black was in the D
As we were drawing the other guy pick up the black and put it on the black spot
Is this correct moving the black
Alan. Any foul shot on the black when it is the last ball ends the frame, if it is a draw when the seven points are added then it is a re-spotted black ball. So in this case it was correct.
Very good explanations of some rules that, to me, seem to be a bit arbitrary. Now I will watch the O'Sullivan-Simmonds match and see if these situations come up ... SHHH ... don't spoil it for me! :)
New music Barry. Nice it just woke me up....
From the rules: "A miss is when the cue-ball fails to first contact a ball on and the referee considers that the striker has not made a good enough attempt to hit a ball on".
The "good enough attempt" part of this definition is quite important, so perhaps Barry can explain it in the follow up video?
I don't think I have ever seen a ref on TV say "A good attempt has been made to hit the object ball, no miss will be called". I would like to, but maybe that would open a whole new can of worms...
And that's probably why a lot of people think that the rules differ between pros and amateurs. There are situations where you can expect a pro to make a shot that no amateur would even try...
@@musicbro8225 so watch the Mark Selby brutal snooker against Walden. The ref didn't call a miss.
@@musicbro8225 BJqEAjEG3Wc between Wilson and Dunn
A couple of cracking snookers there, thanks for the links. It's good to see the rule being judged fairly by two top class refs, refreshing to see.
Love your insights Barry. I was in an impossible snooker last week...3 red balls around the object ball. What is the ruling on that?
carin. Always a tricky one, You must play in the direction of the ball you would like to hit with sufficient strength that in the opinion of the referee, the cue ball would have reached the intended ball.
Hi Barry
This past week I was snookered behind the green (which was on its spot) with one red down around the pink spot. I used the spider to come off baulk cushion to hit the red. Just before I struck the white the referee called a foul on the green but i did strike the cue ball. As a technical foul occurred prior, it was decided this was not a miss. Is that correct or should it have been replaced?
Thanks
Liam. The referee was correct, this is not a miss. However, this type of situation is obviously open to abuse by the unscrupulous in which case the referee does have the autonomy to make an alternate decision in the interests of fair play.
Hello Barry,
Isn't the Ronnie-John situation already covered in the rulebook under the Section 3, Paragraph 11 (i) - iii? I always thought it refers exactly to such scenario:
If a striker, when snookered or hampered in any way, fouls any ball
including the cueball while preparing to play a stroke, if requested by his opponent to play again, the opponent shall have the choice as to whether the
ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the infringement, namely:
(i) Any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) The colour on where all the Reds were off the table; or either
(iii) A colour of the striker's choice, where the ball on was a colour after a
Red had been potted; or
(iv) The option of playing the next Red or Yellow when there are no Reds
remaining.
Any ball(s) moved shall be replaced to their original position(s) by the referee if
requested by the non-offender
It is however still very confusing rule for me. If I understand it correctly, this rule can only be applied after foul and a miss has been called already, therefore if he fouls it on the very first attempt, this rule should not be applied (?)
Well done @Vojtěch Marvan.
This is exactly that rule what describes this particular situation. But the question is: If this rule exists before the in the official rule book of snooker? Maybe the referees of the world changed it in the last days? I have studied many times the official rules in the Polish version and there is no such a rule like (i) in the section 3 paragraph 11. Paragraph 11 ends up on the letter (h) not (i). Maybe Barry could say something more about this Section 3 - Paragraph 11 - Rule (i). It would be very helpful. Please @Barry Stark Snooker Coach help.
@@ploplos I am sure this has been added into rules after the Ronnie-John situation has happened. I was checking official rulebook, last review has happened in November 2014 so this is probably when this change came into the effect. Local version should be applied accordingly to reflect new official versions.
@@wise32man I have checked it and it have been changed in 2011, after that strange situation from 2009 UK. The one more thing was being also changed according to the situation when the referee should stop calling a miss. Now the equal of points is the reason to stop call "foul and a miss" and just a foul. Cheers.
Vojtech. I know that after the Ronnie and John Higgins situation that the rule has been amended but I will ask one of the top referees about it at the next opportunity.
Hello! Very informative video. I think that now if on the tavle are 35 points and i've missed and difference became 35 points there is a miss.
And in a sequence of fall and a miss if an opponent faults any ball even the cue ball, the miss will not be called. The non-offender
may then elect to play themselves from the position left, or
request the offender to play again from the position left or
the original position, in which latter case all balls shall be
replaced and the ball on shall be the same as it was prior
to the last stroke made. Right?
@neill. Correct, well done
Hello Mr. Barry, can you make video regarding upto when we can take foul & miss or free ball. Does it matter what's points left on the table or what?
Aamir. A foul and a miss can be called if in the opinion of the referee the player has not made an attempt good enough to hit a ball that is on, this rule applies except when the black is the only ball left on the table, in which case the first foul shot on the black ball will end the frame. A miss will not be called if a player needs a snooker before he plays the shot or indeed he needs a snooker after his shot and points have been added to his opponents score. A player is entitled to a free ball if after a foul shot he is snookered.
Stupid question from an American snooker fanatic. What are the consequences of a foul, versus a foul and a miss? You have a great channel Mr. Stark! I have learned so much. Thank you!!
Maybe I just heard the answer listening the second time. A foul only does not allow the opposing player to require the ball to be replaced? Play just continues on. A miss allows the opponent to request replaying the shot with the balls returned to their original position?
@@srvafool Yes. It's true. Foul just give you the option to play yourself or your opponent from the situation after the shot on the red again.
@@ploplos Thanks for the clarification Piotr!! Have a great week.
Sir i have a question related to my snooker cue action.....sir when i pull my cue back during backswing it moves to right side then back in line due to this i give side,cue ball jumps sometimes i have loosened my grip but problem is same what could be the possible problem i dont know i whenever i pull back for shots requiring power the cue moves away from line....sir any practice....sir i have moved away cue from chest but problem is same.....sir please help me or any give any advice...
I cant approach any coach....you are my hope plz....i want to improve my snooker.....thankyou sir
Quick rule question. Please.
If all the red have been potted. The ball on is the blue, I pot the blue and the white follows it into the pocket.
My opponent gets 5 points.
Is the blue respotted or does it stay in the pocket?
JC. The blue is re-spotted.
Music is too loud, and although I like the explanation of the rules this video lacks the definitions. E.g. in the second 3-miss-rule example, the rule is not applied because there is an easier shot on, but because there is any ball that is on and can be hit in the center following a straight line that emerges from the cueball's center.
So if I touch the black (foul) my opponant can't make me play it again cause I didn't play the shot it was a foul not a miss the only possibilities are either he play the red or I play again but instead of the color I play red right?
Prince. That is the case, but after the incident with Ronnie and John Higgins it is to be reviewed.
Hello Sir Barry Stark. I'm from Malaysia. I have a question to ask. How about a player got a touching ball between green and pink. Does the player have to tell the referee if he wants to hit the green ball? What if he wants to hit the green ball but does not tell the referee to hit the green ball and when he hits the cue ball, the cue ball hits the pink first. Is the foul counted 4 or 6? Hope I can get the answer. Thank you.
Mohamad. I have already answered this question.
Hi Barry
I was watching Higgins and Robertson Sunday's final. Higgins had to play the green on the cushion. He failed to hit it, a foul and 4 points were awarded to Robertson. Now he could see the all of the green on but no miss was awarded. I rewound the shot and there was no snooker needed on or after the shot. Why no miss and indeed if repeated 2 more times, loss of a frame. What do you think, Sir. Thanks in advance.
lloveto. Can you tell me which frame this was, I need to have a look, its bound to be on TH-cam.
What does “full in the face mean”? I thought he would only get the warning if he couldn’t hit both sides of the ball on. From the position on the table, it looks to me that he could hit the ball “full in the face” but it doesn’t look like he can hit the right hand side of the ball. That’s a miss, but not a warning situation. Have I misunderstood.
@richard. I think you are getting mixed up with a free ball situation. If after a foul by your opponent you cannot hit both sides of the ball that is on then you are entitled to a free ball. When there has been no foul by your opponent and you can hit the ball on full in the face (i.e. full ball) you will receive a warning after two successive misses.
@barry stark,
Hello sir.. If there is a full ball red contact and when the player misses it three times then the frame is forfeited.. Suppose PLAYER A, pots a red and ends up for no colour.. In order to play safe he tries and misses a colour which has got a full ball contact, in such situations a foul and a miss rule can be given? Like the player tries to hit the colour from the same spot and misses three times and his frame being forfeited?
Ashwin. The colour of the ball has no relevance, a foul and miss will be awarded against him, on the second miss he will be warned and on the third the frame will be forfeited.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach
Thank you sir.. All my doubts I am getting cleared.. Will reach u if I get any new doubts sir. Thank you.
Regards, ,
Ashwin.
Lovely information. However I may have missed it but I have a scenario question. Let's say I am 45 behind with just the last 3 colours left. If I put my opponent in a snooker and he misses can I have the balls replaced and make him go again up to a point where there are enough points left on the table that I can then win. So ask him to replay the shot 6 times, assuming he misses, then I would only be 15 behind so I can now win by potting the last 3. Or do I have to get him in 6 separate snookers ?
Keith. A miss will not be called if there are not enough points on the table for you to win, so I am afraid you will need separate snookers.
Dear Barry, thank you for all this valuable information I'm a beginner player and I have some confusion vision about rules of the game like how many times that I have to repeat if I was snooked? and also the position of the pink ball if its place was not empty? can you please make an episode to explain all the rules of the game! thank you so much
I do apologize for my English! I'm not a native English
hamid. Covering all the rules in video form would be difficult but if you ask a specific question I will answer that. If any coloured ball cannot be spotted onto its own spot then it is spotted onto the highest spot available.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thank you so much, Mr Barry, the question that I have is when I play a frame with a friend sometimes the white ball was snooked and we have a problem with the number of times that I have to replay if I miss the shot? some people said that I have to replay until I hit the goalball or when the other player decided to play !!
Can I ask? Foul and miss situation. Player 1 has 50poits, player 2 had 32 point (18ahead). On table is last 3 balls (blue, pink, black). Player 1 do miss on blue ball after snooker. Is it faul and miss or only faul? Thank you for answer…
Hello Barry do you do personal lessons I feel like I could use some of your help as I try putting it into practice from the videos and I seem to still not do very well I am more of a visual learning being shown how to I think it would help me a lot thanks
Reece. Do to family and other commitments I am afraid that at the moment it is very difficult for me to give coaching lessons.
No worries at all would it be something possible for the new year :)
Does 3 miss rule apply on colour ball also? We had a tricky situation in a local tournament. After potting a red the player could only see Black ball but it was tough because he had to play it with swan. He missed 3 times in row.. referee awarded the frame to opponent. Was the referee Right or wrong? Also the referee did not warn the player when he missed 2nd time. Your opinion please
JAY. There are two points here, the first is could the player see the black ball as a full ball, if he could then the referee would have been right, unfortunately in this case he was wrong because no warning was given.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thank you. I have seen all your videos and subscribed your channel long back. Why not compile the Questions and answers on the comments section and create an ebook like "Q & A with Barry Stark" , I mean something like that.
I see many players putting their chin on the cue, is this a new technique? How effective is it? Could you please do a video on that?
Elie. Most good players have there chin on the cue, it helps with sighting and of course keeping the head still during the shot, I will add that I believe that not only is it effective but also essential.
Question : At the 4 min mark you say the player is awarded a "foul and a miss " and the ball can be replaced at the opponents discretion until the point difference determines otherwise. Yet in a video called " All players fear this Ronnie " where he is playing Neil Robertson , at the 23:00 min mark Neil misses the red , while snookered in a very similar fashion as in your illustration, and yet a free ball is awarded right away , as opposed to making Neil re-play the shot. I don't see the difference. If you can explain this, that would be great. Again, thanks for your excellent videos.
@thomas. I am afraid that I haven't seen this video that you mention.
Theres 2 possibles reasons as to why. Either the referee forgot to call the miss or that he felt that the snooker was too difficult to hit and as its his discretion he doesnt have to call the miss and since it was a freeball anyway, it wasnt like ronnie was disadvantaged..i have seen the video and it does appear as the snooker appears difficult. Red is very near the middle pocket. Its very difficult to hit the red without hitting knuckles, going in off or cushion below the red
Hey Gyes
Suppose I'm hitting colour ball at top left corner and accidently goes to top right corner, will I get point or not ?
Gb. You are describing a fluke or a lucky shot and yes you will get the points.
HI Mr. Barry. Kindly guide me in the situation when player A have score lead by 9 points on player B. Only pink & black left on the table. Player A commit a foul by hit a straight shot on pink but pot the cue ball. The referee can give it like foul or he can give it like foul & a miss?
Aamir. You have not made it clear whether player (A) hits the pink or not. If player (A) hit the pink but went in off it would be just a foul. If player (A) missed the pink altogether then the referee could award a foul and a miss. The score in this situation is irrelevant because once the six points have been added the lead will only be 3 points.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thank you very much for your reply, Sir. I am cleared now.
I was snooker behind the yellow and I was attempting to hit one of the reds on the table. As I hit the cue ball, my cue touched the yellow and the Cue ball subsequently touched the pink. How many points should be deducted?
Alain. In any situation like this where two fouls have been committed during the same shot it is always the highest penalty, in this case the foul on the pink is the highest so six points should be added to your opponents score.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Understood and Thank you.
Hey Coach! I have a problem with my game. Whenever I play the shot, the cue hurts my chin badly and if I keep my cue away from my chin during pre-shot routine, it automatically touches my chin when I deliver the cue. And if I try to keep away in both actions, pre-shot routine and delivery then it affects my cueing. Please help me out, Coach.
Mustafa. If the cue hurts your chin you are obviously applying tension somewhere in the action. When you keep your chin off the cue during the pre-shot routine but it then touches the chin during delivery suggests that you are not keeping the cue parallel to the bed of the table. This is quite common with beginners and it is something that needs to be worked on, don't allow the cue butt to rise and fall and try to play without tension.
Thanks coach I will try but I am not a beginner my average break is 30-40. This problem never happened before just happening since a week almost.
If there is only one red on the table and a player is in an awkward spot and has missed the red twice and receive a warning, Could they deliberately make a foul whilst cueing up in order to avoid it being called a miss and thereby avoid losing the frame.
EBO. That was certainly a possibility but the rule has been changed to cater for that.
Dear Barry. Just had a game where by I am 23 points behind and the balls left are blue to black. My friend went to play the shot, missing the blue as he was snookered. I was awarded 5 points so is the miss rule applied?
Lim. As you can only draw with the five points you cannot be awarded a miss. I understand that the miss rule is to be amended shortly but as it stands at the moment the answer is no.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thanks barry
I would like a video clarifying what isn't a push shot in English billiards and is it the same as snooker?
Ronnie. The usual method of describing a push shot is to say that:- A push shot is one where the cue tip is still in contact with the cue ball when the cue ball is in contact with the object ball. Although this is true it is still possible to play a push shot when this doesn't apply:- A push shot will be called when the cue tip is still in contact with the cue ball when the cue ball has started its forward momentum. This rule is the same in English Billiards as well as Snooker.
So can you replace the shot every time it's a foul when the player has taken a shot?
Benjamin. No, a foul and a MISS must have been called by the referee.
Dear Barry , Do you know that is there any secret behind the color balls? why yellow has 2 points and why brown is located in the middle of D area?
jamshid. Sorry, not a clue on this one, I will try to find out though.
Hello dear Barry I have a question about free ball. Let's say in this scenario, I was awarded a free ball and I nominate the pink as the free ball, and I try to snooker the last red, by putting the cue ball behind the black. and i achieved it , but only a little of red (let's say a quarter ball of red) is snookered by the black. and the pink ball obscures most of the red ball. to be more clear, cue ball is behind the black, and black is behind of pink, and red is behind of the red ball. In fact if the pink ball was not in this position, my opponent could see most of the red and only a quarter of the red ball was obscured behind the black. but now because of the pink ball which is the free ball, my opponent can't see any of the red balls. So my question is, am i committed a foul or not?
Please see below.
How can I play snooker on a 9ft table? Is there any sense to it at all? On a 9 fter,,I heard to use 10 reds instead of 15. Is there a version for a 9fter?? I have tried it,and found the balls get messy quickly(spread everywhere) and it is too easy(kinda) and to play safe is very difficult because if not a snooker,,almost every straight on shot is something that be taken on!!
I live in Michigan,USA and a snooker table in this area is not to be found!! I know of 1 in a 400 mile radius and it is worn slick to the slate and the pockets are soooo tight it is almost impossible to make a ball that is 4 inches from the pocket with Ball in hand!!! super tight pockets makes it useless IMO!
5153. Playing on a carpet is better than not playing at all but I do sympathise with you. I suppose the question is if there are no snooker tables how much enjoyment can I get from playing the game. I think I would continue reducing the amount of reds to 10 but I am afraid there is no recognised format using 10 reds that I know of.
In the case of the famous controversial 2023 Welsh Open game between Ronnie O’Sullivan and Ross Muir, can a non full face red obscure a full face red ? i.e. A full face red remains so, even if it is partly obscured by another red, that may itself be obscured by the pink for example ?
I am pretty sure that this rule has changed..due to the ''Ronnie case''...(be free to control and let me know if i am wrong .thanks!)it could have been a clever use of the flaw....or a just a descovery (personal i am sure that pro players know the rules perfektly...and i mean PERFEKTLY ''so i alsaw say that you have to be clever!! Not to cheat!! BE CLEVER....it is a gentelmans sport) so in this case if you did a ''cloth foul'' and you where supposed to play a color no miss will be rewarded and you will still have to play a color if the opponent do not take the next shot.. so it is no miss.( means no respotting the balls ...) but if youre opponent DO NOT take the shot you will still have to play a color !... P.S. love your work!
Busty. Many thanks. You are right the rule has now been changed because of that incident.
does anyone know the rule if two reds (or more) are pocketed on the same shot? Is that a foul? If it is a foul how is it scored? Or, do both reds stay down and if so is the player awarded 1 point for each pocketed red in that scenario?
This happened in my game a few weeks ago. While playing a red into a corner pocket the player pocketed his intended red and caromed the white into the pack. One additional red came out of the pack and was pocketed on that one shot - 2 reds pocketed on a single shot.
So does the "extra" red stay down and is the player awarded 2 points for that shot? Or does that extra red get placed back up on the table? If the extra red is put back on the table where on the table would it be placed?
51Dss. If two reds are potted in the same shot that is okay and you would score two points, both reds will stay down. If three reds are potted you would score three points, if all fifteen are potted that is still okay and you would score fifteen points, I would love to see that.
With the snooker behind the yellow ball would a miss be called if you deliberately played the cue ball against the yellow directly towards the red? There are some circumstances for example when the on ball is very close to the black, pink or blue and you are snookered behind a 4 point or less ball where avoiding the miss could be advantageous and eliminating the risk of one or more high value fouls.
@edd. Playing a deliberate foul shot of that nature will always be classed as a miss.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach so how do you avoid a miss? Because you can be millimetres away from the object ball and still have a miss called.
What is the common practice of an impossible snooker or well close to it. I have had a case where the opponent had the cue ball slowly slide in between three colors and the one color where it squeezed in barely fell back to its original position (probably not ideal cloth). So I was in a situation where I couldn't see any cushions or reds. No matter what I did I would foul. I guess in such a situation the rules allow for the miss to be omitted and I'd have to make an effort and would foul. But what if there is only a marginal angle to a cushion available i.e. white drops in behind a triangle of colors close to cushion and the pretty much single line out will not give even a 3-4 cushion access to a red so while it may not be theoretically impossible it near essentially is practically impossible snooker.
Is this entirely up to the referee to decide not to call a miss?
Mario. The rules do allow the referee to use his/her judgement in these situations and not call a miss.
"He immediately admitted that he touched the ball."
Good to know gentlemen still live.
Hello from the United States of America. I did have a question since I do watch some snooker matches on TH-cam.
Suppose I sink a red ball and attempt to sink the green ball, but I accidentally sink another red ball. That's a foul, I think, but does the red ball stay down or does it get respotted?
Greetings from another US snooker fan! The situation you describe is definitely a foul, and the red stays down. Reds are essentially never put back on the table, if they leave the table for any reason (knocked into a pocket or hit off the table), they're down.
The only situation where a red gets put back on the table is if it falls into a pocket on it's own, without being knocked in by a shot. That would be a situation like a player hits a red right over the pocket, it stays up, but then someone bumps the table or something like that, which causes it to fall into the pocket. In that case the red is put back on the table from the point where it fell (i.e. right over the pocket). But that's very rare, particularly on the very high quality (i.e. very stable) tables used at professional levels. For most practical purposes you can just say that reds never get put back on the table.
@@leighhargreaves4104 I thank you for your help. I didn't think a red would return to the table, even if it was a foul and a miss, even though the ruling on a foul and a miss is that you can play the shot yourself, or have it reset and have me try the shot again.
@@LeotheTiger1234 Oh, actually, I might have misunderstood you a little. So, if you were playing for the green, missed it entirely (hence a miss) but accidentally potted a red, and your opponent then asked you to replay that shot, then yes, the red gets put back. Resetting the shot means resetting the shot exactly as it was (leaving that red off the table could mean the replayed shot was a very different proposition to the original one). So yes, resetting after a miss is a possible case where a red could get replaced.
However, if the opponent elected to play the shot themselves (or asked you to play it as it lies), then the red would stay down. Alternatively, and this is how I was understanding your question, if you did hit the green (so no miss) and then one of the moving balls accidentally knocked a red in, then again, the red would stay down.
@@leighhargreaves4104 Thank you again for your help. I am sorry I wasn't clear about that. I guess I was thinking about if the cue ball did come in contact with the green.
Helping me 🤗🤗🤗
Barry, If you miss a ball for a second time and the opponent asks you to play again from where the cue ball lies will you still receive a warning?
Andrew. No, you will not receive a warning because you are playing an entirely different shot.
If the opponent declines the reset, the miss is waived off, and there is no warning.
sir i wish to ask some queries about rules, i am new in learning about snooker. so after we have taken all the red balls, we are suppose to start taking the yellow, green , brown , blue, pink and finally black. but i was watching some matches and the player takes the last red, and instead of taking the yellow , he takes lets say blue and gets the 5points but the blue is kept back on the board and then he takes the yellow
Sid. That is correct, after potting a red a player must now go for any colour which will be replaced and then the colours in the sequence that you have said. It could even be that the player pots the last red, then pots the yellow which will be replaced. He will then take the colours in sequence starting with the yellow again. I hope that clears things up for you.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thanks sir, that really helps. i hope u do a long video or in parts about every fouls and misses and the penalties
I am led to believe that missing a ball when snookered is not an automatic miss and that this should be called at the discretion of the referee based on the player's ability and best efforts and circumstances, even though this seems to be automatic in the professional game much (quite rightly imho) to Ronnie O's chagrin. Indeed the WBPSA rules state that:
"14. Foul and a Miss
(a) The striker shall, to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on or a
ball that could be on after a Red has been potted. If the referee considers
the Rule infringed, he shall call FOUL AND A MISS..."
[NB The masculine gender is used in the rules and is not my own choice of words]
This suggests that the determination of a stroke to be a miss or not is at the sole discretion of the referee and is not an automatic call. I therefore do not agree on a miss being automatically called nor a local rule being implemented to limit this to 3 goes, as it should be a judgement call based on ability, best efforts and circumstances and not on outcome as seems to be the case in the professional game (if they miss and leave nothing then it is undoubtedly a miss notwithstanding difficulty and effort!). This said, however, I am a fan of pragmatism and agree that some level of objectivity helps - my league standard is such that we do not call misses at all!
Ian. Even at professional level some referees would call a miss and others, even in the same situation, would not. So you see this inevitably caused controversy, as a result the miss rule (except in extreme circumstances) is usually implemented.
Barry, thank you for the response. I am afraid I just see that as an easy excuse to using their discretion.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach on the other hand, you rarely see top player genuinely just trying "to the best of his ability, endeavour to hit the ball on" from snooker situation, there is always some complexity added for safety or positional reasons, so what may seem to be blanket application is really rightful application of that rule as worded.
At a professional level @Barry there is rarely a snooker a player can’t be expected to get out of, which is why they will almost always call miss.
Pink and black is only balls on the table, am 7 points behind and i got snookered. Next I dnt hit the ball on, will it be consider as foul only or foul+miss?
PK. This rule has fairly recently been amended and because you can still obtain a draw and go on to win it will be considered a foul and a miss, unless of course you hit the black in which case you cannot win so only a foul.
Had a situation during a friendly the other week that has me confused about the rules somewhat, that would be a foul on a black ball game, i was 7 points ahead with just black left and fouled, I assumed this meant that my opponent won at this point despite technically being level in points. So what would be the ruling in these situations, 1) I am ahead more than 7 points but less than or equal to 14 and foul, 2) I am 7 points ahead and foul, Does my opponent get a second shot at black on 1), does my opponent have to pot the black at 2) to win?
1) Ahead more than 7 points with only black left = end of frame, you win
2) Ahead 7 points and foul on black = frame ends in a tie, so re-spot black to decide the frame
@@fam.peeters-favresse9026 are you sure with the point 2? As I know if you fouled on the last black this is the end of the frame and there it doesn't matter what are the points that you have on your scoreboard.
The tie is when the scores are equal after potting the last black, but I think it is not including the foul on the last black because you can also fouled black by the missing shot for example where you are 6 points ahead and the game theoretically could be also continue because you have still chance to win if for example the cue ball could come back on the table but it can't cause foul on the black means that you lose the frame (of course when the difference of points is equal or less than 7 points because in other situation the frame would be over with the last black on the table and even if you missed it because you are building high break you are still win cause frame is over when you have more than 7 points with the last black on the table). I can be wrong with that, but I write it to ensure of your or mine explanation...
Regards.
@@ploplos If you are 6 points in front, and you make a foul on the last black, you lose the frame.
Rule is that potting the last black, or making any foul on the last black, ends the frame after the attribution of the points (of the pot or the foul). In case of a tie (after attributing these points), the black is respotted.
So in conclusion: if you are more than 7 points ahead, no need to play; if you are less the 7 points ahead: don't foul but pot the black ;-)
@@fam.peeters-favresse9026 So there is only left one situation for the explanation, when the points after potting (or fouling) the black is equal.
It's obvious that in the case of potting the black and getting equal score the black is re-spotted and the next foul or pot will end the frame. But what if the player A has 63 points and player B has 70 points and then player B will made a foul on last black ball game. In my opinion it will be and of the frame for player B even if the points are equal now because he has made a foul on the last black. But according to the official rules of game your explanation is more clear then mine...
4. End of Frame, Game or Match
(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score
or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply:
(i) the scores are then equal; and
(ii) aggregate scores are not relevant.
(b) When both conditions in (a) above apply:
(i) the Black is spotted;
(ii) the players draw lots for choice of playing next;
(iii) the next player plays from in-hand; and
(iv) the next score or foul ends the frame.
xenoborg. The best way to remember this is to say the first foul on the black ends the frame, seven points are awarded to the none striker, if one one player is leading after those seven points are added then he is the winner. If after those seven points are added the scores are level then there is a re-spotted black to decide the winner.
Awesome video. I had a question. Say there was a scenario where there were two players, we will just use Higgins and O'Sullivan as an example. O'Sullivan jaws the red and the red is hanging on for dear life on the edge. Higgins comes to the table and proceeds to play slowly towards the red. While the cueball is on its way to the red, the red drops in during the cueball heading towards the red. What would the rule be in that particular situation?
Hi Domain Admin. There is a few examples regarding to your question:
1. Where the ball is balancing on the edge after the shot and after a few second it drops then the ball is scored for it's value.
2. When the ball drops accidentally without any action of the player, the ball coming back to the table and any points are scored.
3. When the ball drops accidentally without any action of the player during the shot, all the balls coming back to their previous positions and any points are scored if any foul wasn't made and the player is repeating his shot. If the foul was also made during this shot, all the balls coming back to their previous positions and points for the appropriate foul are scored for the opponent and the next player has option as the normal situation after a foul.
Piotr is right about balls on the pocket edge of the pocket, it has to pause momentarily then fall in and it scores or is a foul depending on what ball it was, longer than 3 seconds and it falls in then it gets put back where it was and it does not score, if it falls in while a stoke is being played then it gets put back, all the balls get put back and the striker plays either the same stroke or any stroke he wants, so balls on the edge of the pocket that fall in after 3 seconds get put back. N
@@ploplosI don't want to talk about anything that not about Barry's video, it's about the foul and a miss. N
@@billiardsandsnookervideosn8319Ok. No problem with that. Regards and thanks for the support with all that questions.
Domain. Lots of sensible answers, the answer to this one is that the balls would be replaced and the shot played again.
As for the O'Sullivan-Higgins case, it happened during UK Snooker Championship 2009, and the hole in the rules has already been patched. It would be nice to explain, how.
Witold is right, the rules have been fixed:
14. Foul and a Miss
(e) After the cue-ball has been replaced under this Rule, and the striker fouls
any ball, including the cue-ball while preparing to play a stroke, a miss will
not be called if a stroke has not been played. In this case the appropriate
penalty will be imposed. The next player may then elect to play himself or
ask the offender to play again from the position left or the original
position. If being asked to play again, the ball on shall be the same as
prior to the last stroke made, namely:
(i) any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) the colour on, where all Reds were off the table; or
(iii) a colour of the striker’s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a
Red had been potted
Thx, @@mglcuesports. Just one question: If according to this new rule the next player may elect to ask the offender to play from the original position, then how is this different from a miss?
@@witzar No difference in fact. Only the referee does not call a miss.
@@witzar Quite different actually. The offender may have moved one or more balls without playing a stroke - opponent can not ask all balls to be replaced. Also possible that a ball has been barely moved without playing a stroke - which would appear similar to a "foul and a miss" scenario. In short, the difference "opponent plays as it is" and "opponent replays the previous shot with all balls replaced" is massive. When a "foul and a miss" is called, the opponent still has these 2 options available + play himself.
The rule was tweaked from "opponent plays as it is" to "opponent plays as it is, with the 'ball on' changed to be the same as the offender's previous stroke".
The only similarity really is that the "ball on" would be the same as a "foul and a miss, all balls replaced" scenario.
@@ryanang3771 Opponent can ask all balls to be replaced. It comes from:
11. FOULS
(i) If a striker, when snookered or hampered in any way, fouls any ball
including the cueball while preparing to play a stroke, if requested by his
opponent to play again, the opponent shall have the choice as to whether the ball on shall be the same as it was prior to the infringement, namely:
(i) Any Red, where Red was the ball on;
(ii) The colour on where all the Reds were off the table; or either
(iii) A colour of the striker‟s choice, where the ball on was a colour after a
Red had been potted; or
(iv) The option of playing the next Red or Yellow when there are no Reds
remaining.
Any ball(s) moved shall be replaced to their original position(s) by the referee if
requested by the non-offender.
I've always played the miss rule the way my father taught me. You must make a genuine effort to play the object ball. If snookered and your shot stops a quarter inch short or you miss by the classic baw hair as we say in Scotland then your opponent can play where it lies or let you play where it lies. Only if you are genuinely trying to gain an advantage from missing then it can be replaced.
Ross. The present interpretation of the miss rule in professional snooker was introduced to try and eliminate inconsistencies in refereeing. I agree with you and your father but we don't make the rules. If you spoke to John Williams, the former head referee he would say that they are not referees these days merely ball/score markers.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach I would suggest that most referees and players know when a genuine effort has been made to play the ball.
I sometimes wonder what Ronnie disputes over the foul and miss rule. I don't understand it either when a miss is not called. You explained 2 situations but also in a near impossible snooker a miss may or may not be called. But I understand a miss is called where the player fails to escape the snooker, but it is deemed he may have missed intentionally. That is inappropriate I feel. Also when respotting a ball as close to its spot as possible in a direct line without touching other balls and can waste 5-10 minutes occasionally and snarls up the balls; I feel it should be placed in a pottable position, not a position which halts the flow and likely will end the break. Why penalise a player because other balls are close to or covering the spot?
Mr. Stark, can you clarify these 2 scenarios for me please ? #1 My opponent sank a red and then chose to go for the black. He sank the black and the cue ball screwed back and sank a red on the same shot. He claimed that was legal and I said no as the red was not "on" at the time , the black ball was and that should be a foul. #2 My opponent sank a red and the cue ball ended up buried in the remaining reds so as no colour ball was able to be hit. He nominated the yellow ball and then intentionally shot in the opposite direction knowing he would not reach the yellow. He claims that is no different than a safety shot and should not be a foul. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thank you and have a great day.
@thomas. Scenario one. You are right and he/she is wrong, it is a foul and seven points away. Scenario two. You are right and he/she is wrong, the shot must be played such that the referee judges that the direction and strength of shot is commensurate with hitting the nominated colour. A foul and a miss should be awarded.
Thank you for clearing this up. I greatly appreciate the reply , but more so your excellent videos.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach
Need to know
For example player 1 score is 50
Player 2 score 44 and only black ball is on table
Player 1 gives foul and now score is 50/51
Frame is over or they keep playing????
Send a link please if possible thanks Barry
Fun. The rules state that the first foul on the final black ball ends the frame, so in your scenario player two wins the frame 50/51. If player two had scored 43 points instead of 44 that would make the score 50/50. In this case the tie would be resolved by re-spotting the black ball and playing from hand. Turn to shoot first would be decided on the toss of a coin and again any foul would result in the conclusion of the frame.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach
Thanks
One more question
If i pot pink ball and white ball comes on exactly pink spot and only colour balls on the table and no space for pink
Then where the pink ball placed???
Thanks
Am I correct in the following circumstances?
Black is on and player 1 illegally strikes yellow first: Opponent awarded 7 points because black was on
Yellow is on and player 1 illegally strikes black first: Opponent awarded 7 points because black was struck
Joseph. Spot on in both circumstances.
Simple question yet one I don't know the answer to. A player who accidentally snookers himself from a colour behind a red. He misses. Can the opponent request the shot to be repeated even though it wasn't his snooker?
Shafi. Only one answer to that YES he can.
I have one question. I have seen a lot of times in proffesional matches the following situation: it's one player's turn, he is ahead by more points than there are on the table, but he is snookered by his opponent, who needs two or more snookers to have a chance to win the frame. He misses the red(s) completely, but he doesn't hit any other balls either, so his opponent is awarded 4 points. In every single game I watched and this had happened, the referee had only called a foul, but not a miss. Can you explain why? I'm really confused on this one.
When one player requires a snooker or snookers to win the frame, no miss is called. This, in essence, means that in the snookers required stage every snooker must be laid individually. You cannot amass points from the same snooker by making your opponent play the escape again and again. From what I remember the rule is there to provide finality to a frame. If the losing player could come back because of a super difficult snooker he put his opponent in, frames would last hours and hours. Because it would pay off to keep trying to find that amazing snooker until only the black ball remains. In other words you can get to the snooker required stage due to one incredible snooker but your opponent cannot make a comeback with one incredible snooker, he needs to earn his points snooker by snooker.
@@Horatiotheman Thank you, I was thinking about the "you can't count it as a miss because it would make the game both longer and way too easy and unbalanced for the players that require snookers" idea but I just wanted to double-check, so, yeah.
@@shtegg you're welcome
I think the best reasoning to this rule would be: When you are leading by snookers, you, in theory, would not play an “intentional” miss and give points away to your opponent - you win even if your opponent clears the table. Hence there is no good reason for you to intentionally miss the “ball on”. So the rationale would be: the referee can also assume that you will always play that shot with “good enough attempt” to hit the ball on, and not call a miss, even if the rule doesn’t exist.
Eventually the “foul and a miss” rule exists merely to stop a player playing an intentional miss to get the white safe.
I've watched Snooker on itv4, and on Sunday last week, I've seen the Foul and miss being played several times in a row because of the limited view.....
Sam. A foul and a miss can be awarded several times, that is until the referee judges that the attempt to hit the ball on was good enough (usually when it is a very difficult snooker) or when there is not enough points on the table for the player to win, before or after the foul points are added, in this case a miss will not be called.
@barry stark sir,
I have two doubts..
Situation 1:
Player A - 45 points
Player B - 27 points
Difference is 18 points and one red on the table so total table points is 35..
In this case, player B makes a difficult snooker and player A finding it impossible to release the snooker.. Tries and misses and it was an undershooting (the cue ball did not went upto the object ball - red).. Since it is an impossible snooker to release will the referee gives a foul and miss as it was under shooting? What if the snooker is still not released even if it overshooting (the cue ball went past the object ball - red).
Situation 2:
Player A - 55 points
Player B - 28 points
Difference is 27 points and total points on the table is 27 points (only colour balls are left)..
So obviously there can't be a foul and miss rule.. But here player B makes a snooker and player A deliberately makes a foul to make the cue ball to rest on the cushion (making a difficult yellow pot for player B) by undershooting or overshooting.. In such situations, even though there is no foul and a miss rule, what the referee can do on such deliberate act of player A?
Kindly clear my doubts on the above 2 situations sir.
Thanks and regards,
Ashwin.
AShwin. When there is an impossible snooker the striker must play directly or indirectly at the ball on applying sufficient strength to the shot that in the opinion of the referee the cue ball would have struck the ball on had other balls not been in the way. If in the opinion of the referee a deliberate foul has been committed the referee has the power to award a foul and a miss irrespective of the score, he also has the power to award the frame to his opponent.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thank you so much sir for your reply..
Ashwin.
Very interesting. I would've liked to see some discussion about "impossible" snookers, when there is realistically no way for a player to escape. The rules cover it, but the language is a little hard to understand.
The one thing about that is that the referee should be happy to see that the player is making a "good enough" try to hit the ball on. If he is not in the referee's opinion he can break the official rules form foul -> to foul and a miss choice and vice versa.
Impossible means the referee can't tell you how to escape it. :) You ask the referee if the snooker is inescapable, and upon confirmation that escape is impossible, declare your shot, verify that it won't be called a miss, and play it.
also note that there is an exception that applies at the time this video was made that is not mentioned many places. If you are totally snookered, a foul and a miss will no longer be called if you strike a color while reds are on. It does not affect any of these situations.
2 things you didnt talk about are the rare occasion where a snooker is so difficult the referee may choose to not call a miss even if the ball is missed. The other one is litterally where escape from a snooker is impossible, for instance if the cueball is completely surrounded by reds and the ball on is the yellow with no gap out of the reds. On this occasion the rule is that the player is allowed to purposely foul (as they have no choice) if they play in the direction of the on ball with enough power to hit it imagining that the obstructing balls were not there. A foul will be called still, but not a miss. Both scenarios are rareespecially the latter but both have happened before
Warren. Yes you are right, the second scenario is particularly true and the only option. In the first scenario you mention, the referee always has the option not to call a miss if he feels that a genuine attempt to hit the ball has been made. The present interpretation of the miss rule in the modern professional game was introduced to stop inconsistency from referees. I know of one former top referee who says that they are not referees today, only ball markers.
There was another interesting situation where Selby was in a brutal snooker behind the brown on the top cushion and the ref didn't call a miss
Anthony. If the referee believes that the player has made a genuine attempt to hit the ball on he has the right not to call a miss. However, because there was no consistency from the referees it was decided that a miss will be called in all but extreme situations. i.e. A very difficult snooker and in the opinion of the referee a genuine attempt has been made.
Can I call other ball after one time reset already??
Great explanation. Unfortunatelly I have to agree with Austrea. The intro music is not an improvement. :)
Barry, if you are 31 behind with 35 on the table and you foul, giving away 4 points then you can still win the game without requiring a snooker. So a miss could/should be awarded. Am I wrong?
Andrew. Being 31 points behind and fouling now means that you are 35 points behind so you can only draw so a miss cannot be called. Technically you can still win with a re-spotted black but the miss cannot be called, this rule is presently being reviewed and I understand that it will change in due course.
miss rule is not applied if (i) any player needed penalty points before, or as a result of, the stroke being played and (ii) before or after the stroke, the points available on the table are equal
to the points difference excluding the value of the re-spotted black and the referee is satisfied that the miss was not intentional.
Hello, I'm a beginner at snooker and find this really helpful, thanks. However, I'm not at all clear about why a foul and miss would be called in the second example where you are snookered. My understanding is that a foul and a miss is called when "the referee believes that the player has not made a sufficient attempt to hit the required ball.". What is the easier shot that you should be attempting here such that it's not just a foul? It looks to me like you are making your best attempt to hit the red, no? Thanks! I know this is an old video and hope someone replies. LOL
That's correct, but this is an area where the professional game can vary from the amateur game. As Barry notes, the rules are always the same, but referee's can have different expectations of what constitutes a "sufficient attempt" (since the rules don't define exactly what counts as a sufficient attempt).
In professional snooker, the referee's typically expect players are of such a standard that if all they want to do is hit any given ball, they can basically always do so for any difficulty of the shot. So when a pro misses, the referee's conclude that's usually because they were attempting to only just nick the object ball, attempting a shot with a very minimal error margin, and erring on the side of missing so they can bring the cue ball back safe. Which means player hasn't made their best attempt to hit the object ball (even if they had to hit a specific red, they could have tried to hit it more full). At the professional level, it's now quite rare to see referees decline to award a miss, it's essentially automatic. But it's because of how good the players are assumed to be.
At the amateur/recreational level, the players obviously aren't as good. In the video, Barry describes how his league handles that (using a bespoke "3 miss" condition but basically calling everything that could be a miss). Now, a different way that a lot other amateur leagues would handle that is to just relax the expectation of making a "sufficient attempt". In a lot of amateur leagues, the league will set that expectation as something like this. As long as you hit the cue ball hard enough to reach any possible ball on, and the cue ball passes that ball no further away than about about the width of the cue ball, that attempt is sufficient. And you would probably relax that even further if the snooker is especially nasty. So in those leagues, yes, for the shot Barry was showing (a 4 cushion escape) likely wouldn't be called a miss, because the attempt would be deemed sufficient.
@@leighhargreaves4104 thank you for your time in explaining that! useful
While I understand that the rules of snooker may be the same regardless of the level of play, I have never played snooker in any form of tournament, only in matches against friends, and I personally would refuse to play on if someone insisted in a friendly game that the Foul And A Miss rule would be applied in the way it is on the telly. The truth is, at my level of play, there is little to be gained from trying a "tricky" safety shot, as even leaving an easy opportunity will only see a small-ish break from my opponent, not an "end of frame" type chance, and if I am snookered, I am ALWAYS going to be making my best attempt to escape, again as opposed to trying a trickier line to avoid leaving a chance on... while I understand the use of the miss rule at higher levels, at my level, being in a tough snooker early on could effectively lose me the whole frame, and that is no fun.
Nick. I understand where you are coming from, even some leagues do not apply the miss rule due to the standard of general play. A fair way to apply the miss rule adopted by some leagues and junior tournaments is to say there will be a maximum of two or possibly three misses then play continues as normal.
I understand your view, but many seem to copy what they see on TV where every player is capable of making a frame-winning break. In lower division local snooker where 20-30 is a good break, I frequently saw players potting a red & snookering themselves on all colours then nominating yellow & casually playing the cue ball somewhere into baulk without bothering to even look to see where the yellow was. I felt cheated by this. The rule actually states: "The striker shall, to the best of their ability, endeavour to hit the ball on or a ball that could be on after a Red has been potted." which implies the use of discretion. The actual rules are long & boring, which is why few people other than referees actually learn them. The 3 miss limit Barry mentions as a local league addition is a way to deal with those who will not apply any discretion.
If I pot a colour but the white goes in a pocket,, what would happen
Hi all,
I believe the rules do foresee this strange situation:
so if the rule already existed, Higgins should have asked to play again on a colour.
It is true, but it only applies to the color balls and when the miss is called. When the player is on the reds again after a technical foul, he also has a choice but to choose any ball from the reds, not the colors.
@@ploplos Please check the response of
Vojtěch Marvan somewhere below. He phrases the full extract of the rules.
"If a striker, when snookered or hampered in any way, fouls any ball
including the cueball while preparing to play a stroke ...".
By reading how it is phrases, you could suspect it was added after the match O'Sullivan Higgins :-)
@@fam.peeters-favresse9026 Yes it was, exactly in 2011 :) My mistake. Best regards Wim.
So to confirm - if opponent needs snookers i cannot use the miss rule be he can?
Alan. No it does not mean that at all. Let me try to clear it up. There are 35 points on the table. You are 37 points in front and you snooker me, I miss the red, foul and points away but no miss. Next, there are 35 points on the table. You are 37 points in front and I snooker you, you miss the red, foul and points away but no miss because I needed a snooker before the shot was played.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoachso in a scenario where snookers are required by one of the players, neither player can use the miss rule?
@@MrAlanAllen essentially correct, because the player in front misses and the player behind (requiring snookers) gains the foul points which was their goal. A miss wont be called because a player would never intentionally miss and let their opponent have more chance to win. If misses were still called, one excellent snooker could be enough for the behind player to catch back up. Games wouldnt be conceded ever if there were 2 or more balls left because the potential to catch back up is there even 100 points behind, with a really tough snooker. This would be silly. Therefore a miss will not be called. Likewise, If the player behind misses they would never intentionally do so as they will need an additional snooker to win. As it is out of their interest to do so they can never gain an advantage from a foul shot and so miss wont be called either.
The miss rule was introduced to stop players making no realistic attempt to hit the on ball instead intentionally making sure they leave no easy pot on and distance between cueball and object ball with an intentional miss by just knocking the cueball somewhere. The opponent can put you back in, but it feels crap that no attempt to escape is even made making snookering kind of pointless as it would only get you a few foul points and no advantage otherwise.
The contentiousness of it is that players dont like that a snooker can potentially yield 30 points in some extreme circumstances and lose you the frame, such as semi final between anthony mcgill and kyren wilson in the world championship last time. However snookers that difficult to escape from for pros are very rare and perhaps an excellent snooker should be rewarded in the same way a good pot is.