132. Angled Pots - Why use side?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ต.ค. 2019
- In any cue sport potting a ball at an angle many good players will choose to pot the ball using side, ‘helping side’, as it is called. Barry demonstrates why this is? (PLEASE NOTE Looking down the line of a laser is dangerous to the eyes. Anyone planning to copy this exercise should not look at the laser). #cueball #snookercoach #barrystarksnookercoach
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Barry, you said that the person using helping side will have to aim a little bit thinner, but won't they actually have to aim a little bit thicker?
D B You are quite right, I am afraid that was a slip of the tongue in my efforts to get the video finished, apologies for that.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Actually D B, with all due respect, I think Barry was right the first time. Whenever a cue ball contacts an object ball from an angle other than straight in, it creates friction between the two balls. This friction makes the cue ball take the object ball with it along the tangent line before releasing it and going on its merry way. Although the distance the cue ball takes the object ball is for a very short distance before releasing it, that action is enough to throw the object ball off course. This is known as CIT, or Cut Induced Throw or Collision Induced Throw.
To compensate for CIT, the cue has to apply a little outside spin (left in this case) on the cue ball to cancel the friction. This, however, opens up a whole new can of worms:
Whenever side spin is applied to a cue ball, it immediately makes the cue ball go in the opposite direction. This is called deflection, or “squirt”. So if I put left spin on the cue ball, it will immediately go to the right and therefore deflect off course. To compensate for this, the cue ball has to be aimed with side spin and shot a little thinner than normal to bring everything back in line and pot the object ball.
Crazy game, huh? Best wishes to both of you from the USA.
Mad Hatter. Nar he was talking about what happens when you use quite a lot of helping side. In that case you have to compensate the other way.
@@Dhirallin Okay I'll check it out. Maybe I misunderstood something. Thanks!
@@Dhirallin if he uses a lot of running side(left in this case), over distance tge squirt is going to be more pronounced initially before coming back nearly on line(still would hit thicker I guess) slightly( running along the nap), so yes you have to compensate for all this by aiming thinner ( as its still going to hit thicker if you didnt compensate). Please could you clarify Barry?
Dang Barry, I leave for a month or two and you've got lasers and fancy cue cams now!!
Mega. Thanks to patreon donations we are able to get these things, so many thanks.
The kind of knowledge you share with us is PRICELESS!!!!!!
Thank you Sir for another great video!!!
George. Thanks for that, don't forget though its still down to practise and lots of it.
Most definitely Sir, thank you for your reply!!!!
Barry i have to say i have been playing snooker for over 35 years with only an handful of lessons, no one has every been able to correct my cueing on thin angled shots. I have been watching all your videos since they have first come out and find them very interesting and informative, however now having seen this video on helping side, i can only say thank you very much, this alteration has made a vast difference to my game in the short time i have been using this method. I cannot wait to get back to competitive snooker now and will continue to adapt this more in my game play. Thank you once again.
David. I feel I must repeat that not everyone uses this method and that not everyone agrees with me. However, I have spoken to lots of pros on the subject and certainly the majority prefer to use a modicum of side. It is simply because there is a slight squeeze effect due to friction, this is also why the ghost ball theory is not 100% accurate, as explained in one of my other videos.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thankyou for your reply, i never used to have this problem until i needed glasses some 10 years ago. I did try variations on the lense to try and help see the cue ball better which seems to be a problem with distance glasses, this we could not resolve and i have eventually adapted to this, however i never resolved some of the angle shots until i watched your video. i agree that this needs some adaption too and not required on all shots, maybe it is characteristic to wearing distance glasses or maybe not, but i can confirm im now using this method with much more success and cant thank you enough for that. PS Love the videos Too!!
Long time no hear Barry,hope you are keeping well and thanks as always for your informative lessons.
scambodia. Glad you like them, there seems to be more and more demands on my time I'm afraid but I do my best.
So much knowledge imparted in a short video. Thanks Barry!
batlin. My pleasure.
Very well explained and great demonstration. Please keep up the good work on this channel, it's so helpful to learn from your great experience.
Cool. Glad you like the videos.
Dear Barry, thank you for your ongoing commitment and service to the snooker and billiards international community. How generously you give of your precious time to reply to people’s comments and questions at length. Wishing you good health for the New Year from Australia. Thank you for your passion, inspiration and expertise. You are a complete gentleman whose legacy is now documented thanks to technology and your generous commitment to embrace it. Gratefully appreciated!
Bushwacker. Thank you for your lovely comments, its nice to be appreciated. I feel for the people of Australia who have lost everything in the unprecedented situation they are in at this moment.
One of the more informative videos I have seen!
Magnus. Glad you like the video and its content.
Barry sir you're great at explaining and teaching the game.. Im 28, playing snooker for last 14 years, wasnt able to pot more than 4,5 balls consecutively, its been one year watching your videos and then practicing accordingly and now i more than often can pot 8,10 balls consecutively.. Added advantage that I've gained from your videos is that my interest in the game has gone to a higher level... Thanks a lot, keep the work up. Best of luck from Pakistan.
sarmad. It is great that you feel the videos are helping your game, there is nobody more pleased than me, well done.
I had already paid attention to this by watching the pros play, including the Sullivan which I am a fan of. today, I also play like this, I improved my game a lot. Thank you master.
Ray. My pleasure, glad you like the video. I am also a fan of Ronnie and the way he plays the game and he possibly uses a little more side than a lot of pros but please be careful and don't overdo it.
Excellent video ! Thank you Barry
sundowner. Pleased that you like the video, many thanks.
The allowance part is probably what most amateur players struggle with but, you've summed it up nicely as ever Barry - practice, practice and you guessed it, more practice.
billyrm. I am afraid so, that's really the answer but it is also beneficial to understand what is really happening.
Good use of equipment to illustrate the point Barry!
Duane, We are able to purchase these little extras because of the patreon donations.
Another great video from the Master
m crispi. Thanks for the compliment, I try.
The answer to this question is consistency I believe. The object ball will come off at a much more consistent (ie predictable) angle, and that is obviously more conducive to making the ball. People may think this is a crazy analogy, but it is the same thing as a fade or draw in golf, or even a hook in bowling. Our logical mind tells us straight is better, but the instincts within us figure out there are better ways that have larger buffers. I think that players who force themselves to use center on these shots out of some sort of principle do themselves a disservice in the long run without knowing it. Play enough pool or snooker and you simply just know that a little outside english makes it easier to pocket balls.
direction. You have explained it very well, I believe the video gives pictorial evidence of your words but convincing everyone is certainly not easy.
You’re a legend of the game, Barry. Hope you are well.
War. Many thanks for the good wishes.
Interesting video, very advanced stuff! I believe Dr Dave on youtube (pool/billiards coach that goes into pretty complex techniques and the physics behind it) refers to this as cut-induced throw, and also recommends 'gearing outside english' to help cancel the effects! Will try to put this into practice next time, but I think I know why I keep missing high blacks now, thanks Barry.
Abraham. Pool terminology is slightly different to snooker but it still amounts to the same thing.
Woah!!! Thats something new to me l mma practice this one thanks for the golden lessons once again coach
Mukundi. My pleasure, glad you like the videos.
When playing with helping side (is that the same as running side, going with the angle) are you allowing for deflection or ignoring that, would the deflection compensate for the squeeze, or is it transfering spin from the cue to the object ball helping the most.
Tem como assistir seus vídeos legendados?
Barry, first of all, I want to say thank you for your video's class.
Could you help me with this question please?
In this case if I using helping side, when I'm doing my aim, I fix my eyes in the same point if I'm not using helping side? Or I have to change it?
Thanks
William. There is no simple answer to this question because there are so many variables. 1/ Does the cue throw the cue ball off line a lot, some do more that others. 2/ Is the tip soft or hard, thick or thin in depth. 3/ Is the cloth fine or heavy. 4/ Are the balls new or old. 5/ Is the players technique good or bad. 6/ Is the player striking firmly or gently. All these factors have to be taken into consideration as to how much you will have to allow, but for sure you will have to allow a little, only experience and experimentation will teach you how much.
Super interesting and useful! Thank you for taking the time to cover this topic.
Also pleased that you commented that ball condition could be a factor. The tables I play on are 100+ years old (obviously cushions & cloth aren't) and the balls look it! I've often wondered if that makes them play less 'true'.
Andrew. Certainly the modern ball are very responsive while they are new, not only do they lose some of those qualities but also reduce in size, particularly the cue ball.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach Thank you very much for replying, I did not expect that. I will have a go with some newer, better balls and see if I can notice a difference! (I might not be good enough to.)
@@andrewmason4004 If you can get to play with a set from Aramith (the company who make the tournament balls)...they play different (and better) than the usual cheap club table balls
joe2grand Thank you for the insight. Yes I think the set I'm thinking of will be Aramith. I believe were lent to the club for a visiting pro to use.
Andrew Mason agree with the above, get a set of aramith tournament champion balls in the blue and gold box. They cost £140 on amazon, but are the best around. They do a tournament set in a metal box for £230, but the tournament ones are great. You won’t regret it, last forever too.
well barry i commonly use helping side just to cut the thinner black! i mean just to pot the ball but still not out of position! i tought i was wrong the whole time using helping side when i get the thinner cut black or blue, because.. the center ball i find much complicated also not easy to get a thin cut.
i mean.. i tell myself in my mind its much confident and less harder to pot the thinner cut black using left hand side to the right pocket which mean easy to pot the thinnest cut but when i watch this video i cant believe there is someone out there will to talk and explain about this and your are right practice and practice ,
Barry you the boss!
been follow you ever since
greeting from Malaysia
ewanthug. There is no doubt that some players use helping side to hide a flaw in their cueing, but there are also players that like to, as it where, to flick the ball in using helping side, I include top players in that statement, one of which is Ronnie, so you are in good company.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach thanks for all the explanation Barry!
Hi Barry, I play every Sunday for few hours and practice daily 1-2 hours, but can you train me and the others as well how can we get higher breaks. My highest is 27 all color cleared. Not to say a maximum as another user asked...but might be extremly useful to improve technical game. Thank you !
Silviu. Without trying to patronise I am afraid with the hours that you are practising your highest break should be more than 27. It tells me that there is a flaw in your technique. May I suggest you look at my videos that cover where to place the bridge, where and how to hold the cue, how to place the cue on line etc. Be prepared to go backwards and feel a little awkward at first but with the knowledge that it all starts with a good cue action.
When you cue with low speed the object ball move forward before go to the line, Am i right ? But if you cue it firm or high speed it didn't effect like that.
Is it can apply this thing to every shot which cue by low speed ?
Racing. Not quite sure what you mean, certainly at a gentle pace there will be less push off line of the cue ball when you use side but there will be more of a throw off the natural line with the object ball.
Dear Barry, i have a question. The application of side to angled pots, is there a metric for it ? What i mean is if we are playing an angled pot on black from a distance....where the cue ball is near the blue position or so, does side count or is it a plain ball pot? What is the ideal distance between cue and object ball for applying side to make the pot? Thank you sir!
posani. I wish it was as simple as a mathematical equation. As I have often said Euclid breaks down when it comes to two round balls colliding with each other on the green baize. On an angle pot played with centre ball striking there is a very slight squeeze effect, this is allowed for either by an adjustment in the aim or by the application of a little side. I am afraid that there is no magic formula because there are so many variables, to name a few:- Distance between balls, power of the shot, quality of the strike, standard of the cloth, cue being used, quality of the tip, skill of the player etc. The only magic I can give you is feedback ascertained from hours of practise.
This explains why I am missing some shots, thanks for this, I'll give it a try. P.S. Did I see you at the Northern Snooker Centre?
Mick. You probably did see me at the Northern Snooker Centre, I have been there recently.
Hi Barry - greetings from Canada. I understand that whether you use helping side spin or centre ball, you need to calibrate the contact compensations in your brain. I have gravitated toward using helping side to reduce the effect of 'bad contacts'. Is this a legitimate concern? Maybe it's just in my head, but I am always afraid of heavy contacts (or 'skidding') whenever I take on an angle cut. I know at the pro level the balls are always meticulously clean, but at an amateur or recreational level, not so much so. Do you think it is beneficial to use outside spin to reduce heavy contacts?
Fred. Its a very interesting point that you raise, the older the ball there is generally more friction. This can be proven by resting the cue ball on top of three other balls, it is more difficult when the balls are new. However, I do feel that there is a difference between the normal trajectory of the object ball and one where there has been a heavy contact. I am one of those players that tends to use helping side on angle shots but I don't believe it helps to reduce heavy contacts.
Hi Barry, would you please advise on my problem : I see the line of aim and feel the shot well from the right side of the table towards black and poorly from the left ( same side you demonstrate in the video ) ... I am assuming its head positioning problem but not sure how to fix that
Alex. Lots of players have this type of problem, its one reason that players should practise skills from both sides of the table to prevent a preference. It could be related to head position by means of the cue position in relation to the dominant eye. More likely though its a tendency to use more side from one side than the other. Check this by using the loop bridge and looking down on the cue ball as I have demonstrated in one of the videos. Looking down on the cue ball gives a true picture of where you are hitting the cue ball whilst looking along the cue at it can sometimes give a false picture. It is common for a player to think he is cueing centrally when in fact there is side on the cue ball and of course vice versa. It can be frustrating to cure this but a little patience coupled with the knowledge will soon sort it out. Good luck.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach since I'm more of aggressive player and enjoy playing at fast pace , i guess indeed I have to allow those couple seconds more to reaffirm my aiming and head position on cue, I'll try the loop bridge to check that, thanks Barry. Just one more question when time allows, how to make sure the bridge is always placed on the line of aim ( heard from somebody its 90% of success ) when even couple mm makes a big difference ...
Hi Barry, great insight once again. I have a good question for you - I have been playing snooker and pool on and off, and I recently got a so called "low deflection" cue in pool, that allows me to make almost none/very little allowance when using side. As a result, my aim is totally messed up. It took me a long time to adjust it. But once I got back to the snooker table, as my aiming has changed, I am unable to pot the shots I was used to pot especially with side. I have a tendency of using running side for cuts like this too. I am just wondering if it is a bad pratice to use low delfection cue as it can potentially impact your aiming in snooker? Once again thank you so much for the video :)
I mean, you could always use a low deflection cue in snooker
Kobe. You can get two cues that look identical and made by the same person but you can bet that they will not play the same. Whichever cue you use it takes time to adapt to it, that applies whether you use a low deflection cue or not. I would always prefer a cue that does not throw very much you will surely get used to it quicker than to one that throws a lot.
What a very good way to explain the squeeze effect. I would think that if you use left hand side on the cue ball, you would push the cue ball to the right and hit the object ball too thick.
A. Side is complex, there is the push of the cue ball off line then there is the kick that friction causes on the object ball, not to mention the power of the shot, distance between shots etc.
Thanks Barry, always enjoy your videos. I must however ask, at what point would a novice go from learning potting angles hitting plain ball, to adding the complication of applying side?
kfmctell. This is really quite difficult to answer so much depends on the players ability. Professionals try not to use side (generally) or at least restrict its use while amateurs are intrigued by it and use it too much. The real answer is to keep hitting the ball smoothly, getting through the ball and finding out what you can do with a plain ball strike then start adding a little side as the occasion demands.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thanks Barry- I guess this is why we love this intriguing, complicated, frustrating game!!
Hi Barry ... Firstly thankyou for your incredibly helpful videos...and secondly... Have you any advice or opinions on wearing glasses ? I now need reading glasses and i think my game is suffering. Is it an easy transition to get used to ? ...any viewers comments would be great too...cheers.... Ian
Ian. A few have asked about snooker glasses, I give them all the same advice. Please contact Chris Cheshire of SnookerSpecs. com. Chris provides me with my glasses, he is a qualified optician and a very good snooker player. He knows exactly what snooker players need.
I personally wear glasses to play snooker too. Over the years of course you have players such as Dennis Taylor who wore glasses suitable for snooker, on the other hand you have Martin Gould who wears ordinary glasses to play. I started playing snooker with ordinary glasses and found it impossible to adjust to snooker glasses therefore I still use my normal ones. I would recommend trying contacts or snooker glasses to see what it right for you personally.
And the reason for using helping side on cut shots is simply: helping side => fuller hit => bigger margin of error => bigger chance to make the pot
Witold. Certainly a fuller hit that some if not most players prefer.
Barry I'm still having a problem when doing cuts or straight shots with side, the object ball is travelling in the opposite direction to expected. E.g. If I use right english on a straight shot, the cue ball is squirting to the left, which is causing the object ball to go to the right. Could you give me some idea of why I'm putting so much 'squirt' on the cue ball, and how to reduce this so that spin induced throw behaves as expected?
Rajie. Lets look at the first stage, if you put right hand side on the cue ball it will always get pushed to the left, how far depends on so many factors. I/ How much side has been applied. 2/ How hard you hit the ball. 3/ Your cue, some will push more than others. 4/ The cloth and how fine it is. 5/ The skill of the player, the better you hit the ball the less cue ball throw you will get. Obviously the more the cue ball gets pushed to the left then the more the object ball will go right, try to hit the ball smoothly applying a little side, learn from the experience and gradually increase it.
I have a question, I have never seen this done, but is a player allowed to inquire about whether a color will respot before the shot has been played?
Is it different for pool? I was once drafted in to a pool league match without knowing the rules; EPA or World rules, I had to ask the ref but he couldnt answer as it was apparently classed as coaching/conferring the shot
Edit: so it would be a foul if he answered me
A referee would not be responsible to tell you whether a ball will respot
Domain. The referee will never tell a player whether a coloured ball will spot or not, the player must decide that for himself.
Crunchy nutter, I have played pool to a high standard in various rules. Having played world rules for many years you have been misinformed. A referee can answer yes or no. The referee can not give advice. Can I hit that ball? The referee would answer yes. It may be a foul but the answer is still yes.
Barry do top snooker players pivot when using side or do they just use parallel side, if you know what I mean?
Rajie. I know what you mean and there is differences of opinion, some use one method others the opposite, its all a matter of what suits the player really.
Thank you Barry, I have also watched a Barton Snooker video addressing the same. Definitely informative, you've made it easy to understand. The descriptive terms used like cling and throw, are beginning to make better sense ...
ral819. I too have watched Barton Snooker Videos, I admire what he does.
Does playing an angled shot with running side against the nap into the yellow or green pockets require a different approach? I ve heard running side reverses against the nap from a billiards champion who played professionally for 60 years, so I dont know now whether to use running side or check side against the nap? For balls frozen on the cushion I can imagine playing with check side to squeeze the ball back onto the cushion when the nap is towards the black pocket, what about when against the nap?
Also Ronnie says in his masterclass video (on swerve/masse) that he plays all balls with swerve/side and that nobody plays plain ball professionally. Is he joking? With all these variables, how does one even make a pot, let alone make a century? Your reply would be much appreciated Barry.
Nandagopal. Potting a ball along the baulk cushion is always a little more difficult than it is along the black cushion because the nap tends to ease the ball away from the cushion. In my opinion potting a ball tight against the cushion from a steep angle is more about increasing the target area rather than what effect side has on the two balls.
There is no doubt that Ronnie uses more side than a lot of professionals, but this is restricted to angle shots. To fully understand this please have a look at my videos which cover this No. 23-29-38-101-102. You really have to try to understand that amateurs have more variables because they do not hit the ball the same consistently, watch how smoothly Ronnie and the top pros deliver the cue, how they stroke the ball getting through it with ease, the secret lies there.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thank you very much for your reply. So I guess the way to have a smooth cue action is to perfect the grip and subsequently the cue action should be better?
Stay safe Barry sir.
Hi Barry, I'm having trouble with mid to long range shots that are very close to straight but a tiny fraction off. No matter how much I try, they either go completely straight and thus miss, or they go too wide and miss. Can I really just aim like 1mm off center on the object ball and sink these?
Dhiraj. I am not in favour of applying side on shots that are only just off straight unless there are positional elements involved. It may be that you are applying side without realising it and that is the first thing that I would check. The fact that they go straight or they go too wide suggests I am afraid that you have a cueing issue rather than an aiming issue and this also needs checking.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach I think you're right Barry, I've gotten my cueing action _almost_ straight, but I believe the object ball is still going very very slightly to the right. I'm running out of ideas of what to adjust to fix it, although it seems to be consistent.
Damn, I finally figured out what the problem is. It turns out that my right eye is dominant over short distance, but my left eye is dominant over long distance. The two are irreconcilable, I can't adjust my head position to fix it. The only thing that seems to work is closing my left eye completely.
Some players even go further with this, like Judd Trump. In some cases he chooses to hit the object ball full in the face, even though there's a slight angle to the pocket. But he hits it with helping side which navigates the object ball toward the pocket. Truly amazing.
Henrik. Please don't try to copy Judd he has his own slightly unorthodox way of doing things. If you watch him from a head on position you will notice that his body moves slightly and as a result of this the cue moves also. Like I have said on many occasions he is one of the best players in the world so don't try to fix something that isn't broken but equally don't try to copy him.
Barry, Are you recognizing a particular angle on this ? For instance, when you see a 30 degree angle pot. Or, do you use helping side of varying degrees on all angled pots ? Great video...
ra1819. To try to judge an angle and memorise it for future reference is not what snooker players do. They see the line of the shot and play the line, Certainly memory of angles play a part but you have to practice a lot to learn the lines. You can learn these angles and lines with and without side which is a matter of personal choice.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thank you for your response. I have also found speed of the shot effects it greatly as well. I know when I feather an angled pot the amount of the throw is greater than with a firmer stroke ... I believe this amounts to more time involved for the angle to become greater with a slower speed of the object ball... Thank you again Barry...
hi barry thanks a lot for this types of tutorials, i want to know that how to improve straight shot, i am very weak in straight potting also i am unable to understand right stance postion, i am a beginner, i have watched all your videos. thanx a lot barry
Vikey. Too much emphasis is placed upon the stance in my opinion, that is not to say that it can be ignored of course it can't but the main thing is to be stable and comfortable, just ensure that the right foot (right handed player) is underneath the cue, the left foot is about hip with apart from the right and away you go. Straight shots demand that you are striking the ball centrally, getting through the ball in a straight line and obviously aiming in the right direction. Check your cue action on the baulk line, get that right and your straight potting will improve.
thanks barry, please keep uploading videos. it helps us a lot, by the way i have imroved my game through your advices and training videos, thank you once again.
Another interesting video barry. Im at an all time low with my game barry. Im playing well in practice but cant replicate that in matches. I seem anxiious and snatch at everything!? Really strange but im not sure how to bring my practice game to matches?
Steve. So may players have this problem even at professional level. I will be looking at this on video and in greater detail in due course.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thanks barry..an analysis might be helpful
Excellent but why? You didn’t explain the advantage or disadvantage if using side. Is it easier to develop the correct angle is it an esier shot?
Gary. There is no right or wrong method, no advantage or disadvantage, only what suits the player. Some players like to flick the ball in using a little side, others like to stick to plain ball. When you play the cut shot with centre ball striking you have to allow for what the technical people call "Cut Induced Throw". When you use what snooker players call "Helping Side" it eliminates the throw and you will find that even most top players will use a little side.
Hello, My condo is not on the ground level, (2nd floor) do you think I could put a snooker table in there?
henry. Would not like to comment on that, there are two many structural variables.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Ok, thank you Mr Stark!
I've also heard this referred to as "carry" as well. I'm not sure if that's correct though...
ra1819. There are many variables in terminology, it doesn't really matter what it is called so long as we understand what is being talked about.
Barry I kept getting the opposite effect to what you describe in this video, and I was very confused. Then I realized it's because I am putting squirt on the cue ball. e.g. the outside English is causing the cue ball to squirt in the opposite direction, which is actually pushing the object ball towards the rail instead of away from it. I figure this is because I am either elevating my cue slightly too much or using too much English? The counteracting effects of squirt and throw can be very confusing!
Rajie. Side, or English as it is sometimes called is tricky even for good players, there are so many things that affect its use, I hope the videos have gone someway to inform people of its intricacies, then it is down to practise and hard work.
Once you've played for awhile and have the feel for the game... I think using helping side comes naturally. Thing is, bring conscience of it. Use it with purpose. And practice inside, hold up side spin. Cause it is very beneficial for Position play.
oHAWKWINDo. Certainly the side is very beneficial for positional play, in the video I was trying to demonstrate that most players prefer playing the shot with side irrespective of positional elements.
Ok so Barry- Thanks for another great video: May I ask: you put left hand side on the cue ball..and I know you played it gently , but surely the 'squirt' or 'throw' of the cue ball should have meant it went offline to the right and therefore you should have missed it 'thick' (undercut it .....missed to the lefty hand jaw of the pocket) .....Or am I wrong ?
exactly what i thought..
I assume he has hit the object ball a bit thinner than what the ghost ball would indicate. That is, as you might already know, what you have to do if you use helping side.
@@enverko yeah again its pretty confusing to get your head around in some ways. I definitiely appreciated when Barry sort introduced me to the idea of when making allowance for the use of side (and that the cue ball can get pushed offline and consequently hits the object ball at an incorrect angle and therefore miss ) he says he thinks about purposefully missing it to the opposite side of the pocket to allow for that and then he can pot it. That was helpful and I think about that when I have to play side....also Break From Life has a good video where he has a cue ball stuck to the end of a an old cue and he shows you a way of aiming / judging by using that (or imagining using that ) - Both these things really help when thinking of the line of aim etc
Exactly what I tried to describe in far more and far more futile words. When you strike left of center, you must also strike left of the desired path because you're imparting a right-ward component to the impact of stick with white ball. That's why the masters practice so much. Even if they're totally zeroed-in before match play, they STILL have to adjust during the match to the actual table they're playing on. I think this explains quite a few matches where Ronnie gets behind, early, but slowly zeroes in by the later frames, and it looks like he has the ball on a string by the end of the match.
joe. You are certainly thinking correctly, but as you say I played gently and therefore the throw would be very minimal, also you have to take into account so many other factors.e.g. The cue. the tip, the cloth, the distance between the balls, how well the player hits the ball. On that last point let me say that Ronnie O'Sullivan or other top players will get less throw than me simply because they hit the ball better than me.
It works like cogs. If the cue ball spins clockwise (Left spin), then it will put anticlockwise spin on the object ball (right spin). At the point of contact, the cue ball will go to the right and the object ball will go to the left. This is especially useful when potting into the middle pockets from an angle more than 45°. For example, if the cue ball is behind the balk line and the object ball is a foot away from the left middle pocket, but on the streight line between the two middle pockets, putting left spin on the cue ball will aid the object ball toward the middle pocket nearer the streight line between the two middle pockets. It's mainly about controlling where the momentum and energy that you put into the cue ball goes once the two balls meet. On this kind of shot you have less choice of where the cue ball can end up due to there being less difference in the amount of energy you put in to it whilst still getting the object ball to go where you want it to go. It's a much finer Ballance (less than a quarter of the object ball).
Pen. Some players like to kick the ball in using side, others like to play shots predominantly plain ball. It is useful to know what is happening though when side is used.
i', ve been following your videos for quite a while and they've given me alot of insight into the game. I have a kind request. There's some confusion concerning approaching the shot, some say you should stand square-on towards the shot then visualize and step down from there. but some say you should set your lead leg (ie your right leg if you're right handed) on the line of aim and step in as done in snooker.
could you please make a video explaining in detail the process of aiming & stepping down on the shot. Addressing these following questions.
1. Standing behind the shot (do we stand square on or do we lead with one foot on the line of aim)
I've seen some players lean to one side when stepping in is this because of their dominant eye?
2. Feathering (are you looking at cueball, object ball + pocket as you would when standing or are you just looking at the contact point on the objectball?)
Ayanda. On question one, everyone is different, leaning to one side really has nothing to do with the dominant eye its just personal to that individual. What has become more prevalent in the modern game is to stand behind the shot with your belt buckle on the line of the shot then as you walk in to place your right foot on the line of the shot, some players like this others don't and just concentrate on putting the foot on the line. On question two, When feathering you should be looking at cue ball and object ball and the line of the shot you have selected, at the point of playing the shot you should be looking at the point on the object ball that you intend to hit.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach , thank you so much for taking your time to write me this detailed explanation, it has finally cleared some grey areas for me, take care.
Barry - Do you think the application of helping side will negate the effect of the thicker angle of object ball path that you get when potting with slower speeds? Therefore, a player will not have to adjust for the change in angle that comes with change in shot speed
dnbmania. The problem with side, "there is no one thing fits all." The harder you hit the cue ball the more it will be pushed off line and the less the object ball will be kicked off line. The gentler the cue ball is struck the less the cue ball will be pushed off line and the greater the object ball will be kicked off line. However, these are only general principals and so many other factors influence that statement, e.g. The cue, the cloth, the balls, old or new, the players skill etc.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Thank you for your reply. If you could form an ideal snooker playing robot would you have him pot these angled shots with side or plain ball? I'm curious to see which you think is better
I'd say you must be able to play these shots without side too otherwise your position play will be limited.. I've seen players who can only play with helping side break down and lose position on what would be a simple shot for a center ball player
I never used side for a pot. But I learned to use side on the initial break and for all bank shots, because the amount of spin DEFinitely affects the "angle of reflection" off the cushion. In straight pool or snooker or billiards, it's never a straight calculation of "angle of incidence = angle of reflection" situation, because of the friction of the ball against the cushion.
It never occurred to me that the same thing was happening with the (inelastic) collisions of two balls. But it only stands to reason that even though the balls are as smooth as they can make them, there's friction on any kind of angle shot. I knew that the off-center collision caused the object ball to SPIN, but I never gave a single thought to this "squeeze" the gentleman is talking about. Hitting the object ball left-of-center with the cue ball OBVIOUSLY causes the object ball to carom to the RIGHT, but the friction of the collision (the squeeze) also pulls the object ball slightly to the right of where a pure calculation of a pure elastic and frictionless collision would send it. Never gave it a thought.
Your eye is so good at telling you what angle to hit the object ball with, without any kind of spin calculation, that I bet that a lot of players don't even know that this friction phenomenon is at play in all their angle shots. They just have a sense of what angle of collision causes the resulting path to be as desired, and the "squeeze" is an unconscious part of the calculation.
I did a lot of bank shots as a teenager, trying to make a quarter last longer in the bar. If it's "Bank 8" it takes longer. I learned pretty quickly that just looking at angles isn't enough. You have to allow for spin. That means adjusting the angle OR adjusting the amount of spin, to make the cushion shot go where you want.
I also learned that hitting the cue ball less than square means you have to allow for some deflection due to striking it off-center. When using left-hand, I'd also aim the cue stick slightly to the left of my intended target, because hitting it left-of-center means there a more significant right-ward component to the strike on the cue ball. Going for the quick kill in 8-ball off the initial break was a bit like going for a strike in bowling. You aim as high on the 2nd ball in the rack as possible, with low, left-hand when breaking from the right side, so the cue caroms more at right angles to the side cushion, rather than just blooping towards the right-hand corner pocket. You want that perpendicular carom to knock the 8-ball into the opposing side, when the cue ball comes back to the center of the table off the side cushion. Anyway, I learned that with that low left-hand, I actually had to point the stick itself slightly at the first ball in the rack in order to hit the 2nd ball as high as possible.
In the end, there's no formula. You have to "feel" it. And that feel changes from table to table, depending on the felt on the cushions. A schmuck like me, playing on cheap bar tables with whatever stick had a decent tip in the rack on the wall, I never came close to what I see every day on TH-cam in snooker, 8-ball, 9-ball and straight pool championships. The level of talent and the amount of training those guys do to be that good is astounding.
Harry. You are right, some normal well coordinated people will have an eye for selecting angles borne through talent and practise without truly understanding what is happening. I can remember a conversation with two players about the differing effect of side with and against the nap of the cloth on a snooker table. One player admitted that he didn't realise there was a difference until it was pointed out to him, guess what, he was the world number one at that time. NO I am not going to name him.
A very educational video. This is also the reason why many players at the cub level think that a particular angled shot can only be potted with side. Some would vouch for running and others for check. I used to pot the angled balls tucked in the cushion with running side as they get stuck to the cushion easily that way. However, over time and believe me watching a lot of John Higgins (my all tie fav) I have practiced and retrained my brain to take the pot on without side with success- so for me use of side is less depending on position and not for potting at all !
Q. M. John Higgins is a great player and certainly tends to use side a lot less that say Ronnie O'Sullivan. Both have had and continue to have great success, it just proves that we are all different and that "One doesn't suit all."
Hi Barry, It's great to see the use of technology to help visualise the points you make. Do you think that using this sort of technology in regular practice is helpful? e.g. you could use the laser from the other direction to pinpoint the contact point on the object ball for the perfect potting angle and then use this spot to aim your shot.
In my uninformed opinion, I think you should try to appreciate everything he's saying, when practicing, but the laser would just slow you down when it's repetitions and "feel" that are going to hone your game. And the laser angle is not going to be the ACTUAL angle, due to friction of the collision "squeezing" the ball in a direction that is not the one calculated for a purely elastic collision. The margins are so tiny, I don't think there's any way to do it, without just feeling it.
Guys who incorporate side in order to counter the "squeeze" are at a much higher level than I ever was. I just got a feel for what it looked like and how to strike in order to make the object ball go where I wanted. I always thought I was just calculating an elastic collision, and the "squeeze" explains why so often I would hit the right jaw on those left-angle shots lined up in the way he lined up the shot on the video. I just figured my aim was off and I need to cut it a little thinner, next time in the same situation, which helped, but kept me forever confused as to why I had to cut it thinner than my eye told me I should.
ANDREW. Harry should take up coaching, he talks sense. Euclid breaks down at this wonderful game of snooker. I only used the laser to show what was happening to the direction of the object ball when side was applied.
Thank TH-cam. Merci beaucoup 🇨🇵
Dam's. My pleasure.
Brilliant lesson. Worth staying though that looking down the line at a laser is dangerous to eyes, anyone planning to copy this don't look into a laser
Jambo. Very good point you have raised there, I should have mentioned it during the video. I was very careful not to have it directly into my eyes.
I like Barry Stark's videos, despite the dazzling laser lights, this one a confusing video. A single ball squeeze? isn't that the kick effect?
Samuel. I have said on several occasions that Euclid breaks down at this game of snooker, a kick and a squeeze are two different things. A squeeze is caused simply by an element of friction, a kick is caused by friction exacerbated by static electricity, chalk or other foreign bodies.
@Samuel What you've meant is 'throw effect'. Throw and squeeze are the same thing, whereas kick is something completely different. You can predict the throw or squeeze effect, but you can't predict a kick.
Hi Barry, very nice video!
I heard about one thing. When pros playing with helping side, it's because spinning cue ball transform opposite side on the object ball and when this object ball collision with cushion-pocket, it's kicked into the pocket. Pocket will swallow that ball, because it is rotating to take running side right in the pocket. Is this statement true?
In general the transformation of spin is pretty low and the thinner the hit the even lower the transformation. The less speed the more spin is transferred.
Helping side means in Barry Stark's example that the cue ball is played with only so much left-hand side that the black ball will follow the laser light while the black is accelerated with getting zero own side spin. That's bc in the moment of contact, a throw happens which would give the black left-hand side and left-hand side on the cue ball neutralizes just that.
What you heard about is so not right. Using a lot of left-hand side in Barry Stark's position would give the black right-hand side and when it hits the right inner jaw it's not helpful. Hitting the jaw deep enough would make the ball drop nevertheless.
What you heard about must be about ultra thin cut shots with outside english on the cue ball (the opposite!) which gives the black a bit of left-hand spin by throw + another bit of left-hand spin by spin transfer, resulting in a moderate left-hand spin. When the black ball then hits the right jaw, it's left-hand spin is helpful.
@@Packgammon Thank you very much
@@FamousColumbo
Yw. On thin cut shots where the object ball is far away from the pocket, typically the object ball reaches the pocket at low speed, which means that it has been underway for a while, maybe 2 - 3 sec. I'd estimate that on such a shot the slow object ball has lost all of it's side spin after the first sec and so reaches the pocket only by normal rolling.
With 2 striped pool balls (so you can see spin) you can do some testing while a friend records it and later you watch it in slow motion.
@@Packgammon Yep, thanks buddy
Famous. The video showed the object ball being kicked off line by the use of side, it did not show any side being transferred to the object ball, any side that may be transferred is usually by accident and is also usually unhelpful.
Goodness me! Using side is fairly confusing ! Playing left hand side on it , I would have expected the cue ball to squirt/push to the right and therefore miss via to the first / left hand jaw of that pocket, but no, the spin apparently kicks it (the object ball) to the right! I always find i cant cut it enough and miss these high blacks alot- sometimes if i put right hand english/spin (right hand side or 3 oclock on the cue ball.).....then it kicks it off to the left and helps me cut it thinner and into the pocket- I get the feeling too that maybe a bit of spin maybe transferred and this helps the black have running side and that also may arc the black in nicely too....but maybe im way off with all these assumptions. It looks like that when watching this !
joe. Just picture the direction the cue ball is spinning as it hits the object ball and you will soon realise which way the object ball will be kicked.
Good coaching
Danny. Glad you like the video and content.
Mr Barry let me say that i enjoy your series and although it being snooker has also been useful to general knowledge and pocket billiards. However, for this exercise I am also aware that because of the side "contact point" can change and is something i'd need to see confirmed for experiments like this one.
Marvin. I understand and respect that you are not just prepared to accept what I say without proof. The best way for you to come to terms with this is to experiment yourself. Start with the balls close together (about a foot apart) play very gently with side and watch the object ball get kicked one way or the other.
In this example you are saying that the left side spin on the cue ball is throwing the black to the right because the SPIN on the cueball is changing the direction that the black travels after impact. However, the spin you imparted on the cue ball would also make the cue ball curve to the left on its way to the black, this will mean you strike the black thinner than using no spin which would also throw the black further to the right. SO, how can you be certain it is the spin being imparted on the black that is throwing the black, rather than the path of the white being changed and therefore striking the black in a different place?
p jay. The distance between the two balls and the gentleness that the balls are struck plus the timing of the shot means that in this instance there is very little deviance in the direction that the cue ball takes.
a look at kirk stevens 147..has a great couple finishing shots with angle sides
Pale. I will take a look sometime.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach ok cool.. I'm Canadian might be a little biased.. lol
Keep it up. Plz keep making videos and dnt stop it.
Well my struggle is on for being consistent in potting balls.
Lately i felt that snooker is more about feeling the hand while playing the shot. Nowadays very often i sense that i m not ok with my shot after i finish it. I also have a sense of feeling that once i start feeling my hand that is opening and closing of grip in a more profound manner i would be able to pot more balls n from there on i shall improve more rapidly.
Do u mind making a video on how do u feel wen u play a shot, how do u feel wen u unfurl ur fingers n then refurl it while finishing ur shot?
Ashish. The grip is very important as I have explained in my videos,there is only one thing got hold of that cue and that is the hand holding it. However, the coach can only see what is happening, only the player can feel what is happening. Try concentrating on the front of the hand and just unfurling the rear fingers ensuring they remain in contact with the cue throughout and then return to a fullish grip on completion of the stroke.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Your comments are noted. Thank u very much!!!
Wish u lot of good health and happiness so that u can make more videos.
Sir please say about the Christmas tree and how to arrange the ball in Christmas tree
Ram. The Christmas Tree is the brain child of a very good friend of mine, snooker coach Del Hill. It would be unprofessional of me to steel his thunder so please contact him for the information.
What the cue perfect?
Cool
Barry had one simple request, and that was to have cues with fricking laser beams attached to their heads.
Albert. I tried but they wouldn't let me, spoil sports said it was against the rules.
Interesting video, I wonder about this stuff and idea that ghost ball is basically useless because of stuff like this, throw from spin, or no spin more often then not, but also I had theorized, that I aim thicker when using outside English, it was ultimately due to the cue ball swerving away from the object ball cause of the spin, more pronounced with draw or bottom outside English. As the swerving cue ball is the dominating phenomina the player must account for, compared to a stuned shot. But then with a hefty amount of side or outside enlish, but center ball, the deflection of the cue ball off the shaft, from the off centered hit is more important especially for closer shots, but knowing that while it imedietly will come off on one side, it will hook out to the other sider on longer shots, perhaps as the pure English, slowly turns into a forward role, hooking. Hope you can interpret as I am an American pool player, unfortunately pool tables are a prized commodity here, and snooker tables are extremely exotic.
marshalcraft. There are so many variables when using side that it can only come down to the player spending time on the practise table. The video just tried to explain what happens and why so many good players prefer to play with side on this type of shot.
Yup，personally i found out using running side really help potting.
Zhang. Yes a lot of players like to use a little running side when playing angle shots, myself included.
Thing is when applying left hand side to the cueball it deflects the cueball só that it hits red ball more full in face (therefore straightens it up) só it’s hard to judge
John. Very true, I never said it would be easy, it is very difficult, but it helps if you can understand what is happening.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach do you just aim further to the left when adding left hand side to allow for the deflection? Or do you impart a technique often known as “tracing” where you scrape cueball off to the left to compensate for deflection to the right?
John. Using side is tricky even for professionals, they all have their own way of dealing with it and some will use one way whilst others will use the other.
Sir I’m big fan of you from Jordan 🇯🇴 i almost watch and like all your videos, i have question to you sir I’m going to order que from aliexpress! Omin cue 9.5 mm tips what you think about omin ques?????
This is not cut induced throw?
Dr Dave has an explanation of this, there's almost no friction because the cue ball is rolling across the object ball if you use the right amount of spin
Dimas. In the example shown left hand side spin is spinning into the main body of the object ball so there will always be an element of kicking the object ball to the right when the shot is played slowly. If right hand side is applied on that same shot the spin is going away from the main body of the object so the kick will be less. When snooker balls are new the reaction can be slightly different.
so solution is practice a lot ..dang....is there easier method?
nenep. I wish there was I would use it immediately.
So basically with helping side, you can hit it a bit thicker which makes the angle easier?? Cool i like that
Jonny. Most players do use this method but also some prefer plain ball, just aiming to strike a little thinner.
On video 147, teach us how to make a 147 break :D
JD. I wish I was good enough to make them to order, unfortunately I am not.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach Not that it matters I can’t even get a break of 10 😭
You're joking obviously
@@fractal_mind562 and the sky is blue
Ok good
how old are you?
movie. Over 21.
You add side to counteract cut-induced throw
Hi barry every time i aim at the centre of the ghost ball,i pot the object ball especially on a new cloth.but people who believe in this theory,they all hit it fractionally thicker because they think about it.putting that wee side creates complications on its own...anyways when you play enough,you just know how to get it all right.
Soheil. The ghost ball method will certainly help a lot of players to learn potting angles. However, it is not 100% accurate because of the very slight squeeze effect on certain shots. Please see my video on this concept.
Ehh, in this case I'm mostly use right hand side though :/ so the ball would have some kind of massé effect... Because I think the margin of error would be lower comparing to when I use left hand side and hit it full from the side... 🤔 It's similar concept with a shot where you need to hit the cushion first...
Arnold. When cutting a ball to the right it is unusual for a player to prefer to use right hand side.
I like the use of technology to help the viewer understand what is going on. Very helpful. However, I feel the pace of the video was slower than needed. It took almost 1 minute to plow through the introduction and introductory remarks and get to the point. And then seven more minutes to illustrate a single principle. While overall I found the video useful, I would like things to be sped up a little bit, So that I can move on to another video, or to the pool table itself.
Richard. Point taken but some people don't just want to see what happens they also like to know why it happens.
Try that with a slight drag screw. See what the outcome is. 👍
Je ne comprends pas l'effet de "compression". Au curling on parle plutôt d'effet "d'entraînement"...légèrement du côté de la coupe. Je serais curieux de voir ce qu'en pensent des ingénieurs spécialisés. I don't understand the "compression" effect. In curling we speak more of a "training" effect...slightly on the side of the cut. I would be curious to see what specialist engineers think about it.
Pool players call this effect throw, for a very detailed explanation, see billiards.colostate.edu/faq/throw/
The "squeeze effect" as you call it happens because at the moment of impact where all three non-elastic balls are touching, the first two balls behave as one combined mass travelling at half the speed but in the same direction as the cue ball. This is what upsets the path of the red.
my god I cant get my head around that ! My fault ,not yours...im sure ...but thats had to fathom
David, Always interesting to know the reasons why, well done.
I can forgive myself for missing some of these angled shots now and being baffled why I couldn’t see the potting angle correctly. Back to the practice table it is.
Jon. When you see a top player play the game we sometimes fail to realise how difficult it is until you try it yourself.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach
Absolutely. I mean, don’t get me wrong, I always knew how difficult it was from my first game as a kid. Only just started playing a bit more regularly ages 39. But I didn’t realise this was incorporated in the difficulty. Just thought my potting was off. But it was always good at pool. Now I understand a bit more and don’t feel so bad. Just even more appreciation for the good players. Thanks for the reply and the videos 😊👍🏼
In school I was told practise makes perfect. But I was also told no one is perfect. So I never practise..
Dark. I am afraid school was wrong, practise makes permanent not perfect, but practise will get you closer to perfect than no practise ever will.
Can you play a musical instrument Barry?
Orrin. Sorry no, my limits on music are singing in the shower.
Barry Stark Snooker Coach Ahaha, fair enough. Nothing like a sing along as you have a scrub hey. Loving your videos Barry, please keep doing them as I'm sure you will.
when he mentions squeeze is that the same as throw
Kashalllday. In the context it is talked about here I suppose they are the same.
So Alfred Hitchcock lost weight and reinvented himself as a Snooker Coach.
Beautiful
WMS. Not sure if that's a compliment or not but thanks anyway.
IMHO The more you know about all these throw effects the more muddled up you become. I am not denying the existence of these but the fact of the matter is, your brain is so advanced that with a little practice it compensates for all these effects (cut induced throw, cut induced spin, spin induced throw, spin induced spin etc and many other still unknown effects). All you need to do is not be scared of using side and just play for position. Your subconscious takes care of the rest. Ofcourse you need a good stance and cue action to begin with.
Kshitij. Up to a point I believe you are right, however as a coach I need not only to be aware of what happens but also why it happens. The enquiring mind of some players means that they also are not happy just to know, they also want to know why.
Hmmm... I tend to be more comfortable with the right hand side for that shot.
RADIN. You are quite unusual in the fact that you prefer right hand side on that shot, most players find it rather difficult.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach I'm pretty sure Barry's right here. I just recently tried to add the right spin, practiced it at home, then tried using it in competition to get better position, and started to miss these shots badly. Didn't realize that most players avoid these shots until I saw Barry's video. Thanks for pointing that out Barry!
147 k views
wow after 10 years playing snooker i didn't know that how i'm potting these balls exactly xD
Ali. Knowing how you do what you do is a great asset in the learning process.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach yes. thanks to you barry
the demonstration shows nothing or too much effect because the conditions wheren't exact the same. Specially the hitting point depends on the player, you need a framework of wood for the exact positions. The problem is the konstant direction of the white ball. I played 30 years 3 cushion billards and studied physics.
Bernd. You are so right, The purpose of the video was to show the effect of putting side on, it is always down to the player to practise and become competent at using it.
Billiards should be compulsory in High School physics.
jceepf. Great idea except for the compulsory bit.
@@BarryStarkSnookerCoach Well the compulsory part was an exaggeration!!!! But definitely it is a great sport for conservation of linear and angular momentum.....The topic of side spin is particularly surprising for a novice since we would expect the balls to be pretty slipery..... Very interesting video. (Here in Japan we have mostly American pool table, I am curious to see if the effect is smaller or bigger on the larger balls. Next time I visit the pool hall.)
I really hate this side shot coz I don't know how to play ...
Haroon. It is a difficult shot to play hence the video which hopefully helped a little.