Film Theory: Is Thor STRONGER Than The Hulk? (Thor: Ragnarok)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ย. 2024
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THOR: RAGNAROK is hitting theaters, giving us another epic Marvel movie that features our favorite heroes: The Avengers. This means The Hulk and Thor will yet again be featured in the same movie, giving us another chance to watch in awe as they enact astounding feats of strength. So far, Marvel hasn’t given a straight answer as to which one of these ultra-powerful heroes has the most brawn, even though they’ve gone head-to-head multiple times in the movies and comics. But that ends today, Loyal Theorists! With the power of math, science, and research, I will reveal which Avenger is strongest!
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6:50 I DIED!!! (My fat cats name is Gandalf, we tried to put him on a diet but in revenge he pooped on our pillows)
BWHAAHAHAH ha
im a stoopidity
me and my pets HAHA COUGH COUGH HAHAHAHAA
When you're pinned and still only get 9 likes
YOU! SHALL NOT! LIFT!
...Did you just compare Hulk's max deadlift to Thor's grip crush?
thats the same thing i was thinking. add in the Hulk is trying to kill everyone and thor is trying not to hurt him
These 2 right here know what’s up
yeah thats what i was going to say so im just going to up vote yours
Haad Naqvi it's probably worth pointing out as well that a max amount of force needed to crush a gauntlet isn't necessarily the amount of force used.
Thank you!! I was thinking the same thing lol hope he gets to see your comment!
I feel like matpat should come back and redo this vid after infinity wars and especially because comparing a deadlift and a grip strength are 2 extremely different muscle groups
10:47 the reason that Thor’s feet didn’t sink in to the ground is because when he was banished to Earth he lost his powers and strength which is also why he had a harder time beating up the guards to get to Mjølnir
Sam Johnson Did sink or didn’t
Yeah but hulk was also mortal so yeah
@@The_Deztro yes the Hulk is mortal but he still has strength the normal person couldn't dream of having meanwhile when thor was trying to get to mjolnir he was stripped of all his power making him just some dude you'd see walking down the street
The Destro As they said in the video, and in the movie, Thor -and the rest of the Asgardians- are intact mortals, with just a higher lifespan. We are talking about Thor with his abilities. But they were completely stripped when deemed unworthy.
@TheTwistedTempo Thanks, I meant to say didn’t 👍🏻
Matpat: Who is physically stronger, not who would win in a fight. So let's look at their fights and who's won more.
I just have a problem with MatPat saying because Hulk is physically stronger that means Stan Lee has to be wrong.
@@Helloiamraymond as many folks mentioned, he's also comparing different types of muscles and saying the strengths compare across perfectly
But that was only Thor's grip strength with his off hand. Hulk was doing a full on dead lift.
That means that Thor has about 700,000 LBS of strength less than Hulk using ONLY his left hand compared to Hulk who was using his whole body.
Thor's grip strength is almost as strong as the Hulk's max dead lift. Thor is way stronger
I noticed that too... seems like a simple oversight by MatPat
I agree as well, dead lift vs manly handshake grip seems obvious who's the winner
This is really just the same thing everyone else is saying.....
Came here to say this
Yeah that’s what I was thinking
Hulk: *deadlifts 3768000 pounds*
Thor: *applies almost the same amount of force with his fingers*
Exactly, Hulk used his legs, arms, feet, and torso. He's no match for the mighty Thor.
Either way thor beats hulk in ragnarok without his hammer
No you are rong
@@fabiocamahco155 Technically, Thor was about to completely decimate Hulk without his hammer, but then got screwed over by the thing on his neck, but our point still stands. Plus the while comparing thors finger strength with hulks deadlift. Deadlift=entire body fingers=fingers
Also that comic which Thor says you know I could never beat you. Read it. Thor wins.
No infinity war spoilers but we may need to redo this discussion now lol Thor really flexed this time around
Cbev1994 yea this theory really needs to be redone (spoilers) because hulk got destroyed by thanos
Aaaaand Thor has a super cool new hammer :/
aaaaaand Banner even admits that Veronica was enough to kick the shit out of the Hulk (aka the green asshole)
ikr
I luv hulk, but he pissed me off with his scared ass in infinity war
He compared arm and leg strength without thinking about the fact, that the legs are several times stronger than the arms. With this, Thor's grip strength gets easily bigger than Hulk's leg strength.
12:21
10:45
10:45
@@temper1287 why are you saying time
it‘s two times but yes
That awkward moment when you compare grip strength to deadlift strength and assume it's the same thing
fax lmao
That awkward moment when you forget he talked about Thor trying to dead lift the hammer and the ground did not budge.... Also if it wasn't for "Sparkle Fingers" Thor would have lost the fight in Ragnarock. Just saying.
That awkward moment when you forget Thor got his powers taken away because he was unworthy throughout, like, half of the movie so he was just another schmuck trying to pick it up without his super strength because it wasn't there because it was taken away. By Odin. In the beginning of the movie. The whole point of the movie
Joshua Richey those are his powers stupid hulk gets angry Thor has thunder
Tru
Who would you Believe?
MatPat
Or Stan Lee the creator of Thor in marvel
To be fair, Stan Lee only said Thor could beat hulk in a fight.
Stan Lee
@@Metrion77 THIS. Stan didn't say Thor was stronger, just that Thor would win. Thor is a warrior born, Hulk is raging, and sometimes near mindless engine of destruction.
@@Metrion77 Thor would have won a fight against hulk in ragnarok but he got shocked
I would believe matpat
You need to consider the fact that Hulk had his whole body to use, not only his feet, as you move the leg muscles as well when trying to lift something properly.Thor only used SOME hand muscles, but mainly the thumb, which operates separately from the arm when squeezing . I dont know you, but to me, the ratio of strength to size of muscle is in Thor's favour.
lolololololol thats fucking halarious
That's what I was thinking. To add on, if Thor's hand can deal almost the same amount of strength as Hulk's entire body, then wouldn't Thor technically be stronger? Because, as you stated, he only used some of his hand muscles
Also he used his left hand which he doesn't even wield his hammer in hardly ever. Thor is seemingly right handed but dealt the damage with his left hand.
I completely agree with this. Also, im surprised mat didnt notice this, i mean it is fairly obvious near the end of this video. Surely he should of made the link when he was researching and creating the script but what do i know.
the point of the comment isnt necesairily to prove him wrong, no one is arguing the research he did. The point of these videos, as he has mentioned before, is to get people thinking. So people discussing a flaw in some of his evidence, or something he just happened to overlook, is what he is wanting.
thor vs hulk
thor : beats hulk
hulk : u cant do anything without hammer
thor : u cant do anything without gamma
he is still one of the leading scientists...
Wrong
(Thor's hammer is basically an equipment and gamma is something that Made hulk. There's a difference)
True that is so true
@Jivantronic what difference does it make?
@Jivantronic it is like a split personality for him once he gets angry hulk takes over
You proved hulk's max PR for deadlift is Thor's firmest handshake.
JAGER MAIN thats what I was thinking 😂
My foot can strike harder than my hand
He did scale in the side of the hand vs the size of hulk i believe as it was a test of strength not power.
riccardovamos so an Thor's.
Kollector that's exactly what I thought
Hulk was lifting the hammer with all his might. Using his arms, legs, back etc. Thor was only using a single hand. Yes it was 300,000 newtons less, but that's comparing Thor's grip strength, to Hulk's dead lift
Exactly what I was thinking
Thor was also depowered to normal human strength at that point too so it was literally a normal human trying to lift the hammer.
Benjamin Vasey THANK YOU
even with one hand it didn't even look like he was trying
Plus the strength of the iron man suit is probably WAY more than just 4 times stronger than steel
Y'all do know Thor lifting the hammer has nothing to do with strength there is a enchantment on the hammer that only allow worthy to lift it Captain America picked it up Thor girlfriend as long as your worthy you can pick it up fine hulk is unworthy but he picked it up with sheer strength which he shouldnt be able too
You can most certainly apply a lot greater force when dead lifting compared to a hand strength, so how on earth didn't mattpatt think of that? Also I haven't seen infinity war so don't leave a reply that uses info from it please
Thor was about to win in Thor Ragnarok without mjölnir
This is about the strongest not the best warrior !!!
And hulk wasn’t even that angry
That was because of lightning, not strenght
Either way Thor is stronger
@@Mustmustik How can he not be angry when thor did a lightning punch into his face
I feel as though the fact of what muscles are used has been wrongfully overlooked. You cannot simply compare the force that they exert in these feats. Thor was able to exert that much force with only the muscles involved in closing his hand, as opposed to the muscles used by the Hulk in an attempt to lift the hammer. The Hulk used his upper body and core, which are generally significantly stronger than the muscles in one's hand and wrist.
tl:dr The comparison used to draw the conclusion cannot be made due to the difference in muscles used.
If your fingers were broken, could you lift anything, despite the fct your legs are still fine? No. Because if you can't put enough force into the grip to maintain hold, your fingers slip. The limit on your lifting power is the strength of your grip, not the strength of your legs.
Bennett Parker Agreed
Apples are not oranges
FafaGaming well duh
Good point, didn't think about that. I also thought that he overlooked the fact that, while we know hulk is using all his force to lift the hammer (as he fails), Thor seems to crush Iron-man's gauntlets pretty easily, so there's nothing saying that's the peak of his strength.
Also, with respect to thor trying to lift the hammer, I think matpat forgot that thor was basically turned into a (granted, very strong and tough) human until he became worth again (as shown by the fact that the big bouncer looking dude was more or less able to go toe-to-toe with him)
That last point is ridiculous your leg strength is more than your arm strengh
Usually by about double, if not 1.5x
But he's using his arms to lift the hammer and applying the force like a lever to himself down to his feet pushing it down.
It’s not even arm strength, it’s grip strength, as in the strength of the tendons in one’s fingers because he’s not punching the gauntlet, he’s literally squeezing it.
its fun watching messages of people that have no idea what they are talking about... trust me a foot is stronger than a hand but in terms of the feats they were performing it turns out to be about equal
Greeny how?
Actually when Thor lifted Jörmungandur the whole earth shook and the snake is actually holding the earth together so it doesn’t fall apart. In the same story he also fought an old lady who was actually pure old age but Thor only fell on one knee when the woman grabbed him. That means that not even age can destroy him, Thor is literally too strong for time.
Satan it’s just a mixture of both mortal and immortal I guess =_=|||
Don't forget that he also has his belt that doubles his alteady godlike strength. The hammer doesen't give him his strength.
Lol no, it's that when asguardians get older they become much stronger. Why do you think odin is such a powerhouse? He's super resistant to aging tho
@@DemonMj lol, no
Oh cool, thanks for the info Satan.
Wait what? Why is the conclusion drawn so unfairly to thor? Why are we comparing what essentially is a deadlift ( how hulk generated the force) vs a squeeze.
I'm fairly sure even people who don't workout knows or at least can imagine that deadlift is the strongest lift that humans can perform with weights. You're basically using your most powerful muscle groups in that movement namely your glutes, hamstrings and lower back. How is that remotely comparable to more delicate muscles of the forearms?
If anything, assuming that the skeletomuscular construct of both hulk and thor complies with that of humans in terms of force output/ cross-section area of muscle (proportionate to their respective overall sizes) also accounting for joint structure involved in force production then Thor must be stronger than hulk based on the numbers matt postulated.
Larger muscles in simpler joints generate forces much greater than smaller muscles in more complex joints, so if Thor can generate forces so relatively lesser with a squeeze than hulk can with his lower back and posterior muscles along his legs then it follows that thor would be able to generate much more force under the same movement.
Hulk pulled something of with 4.1 sextillion. Thor with plus three zero's with the same muscles
Yong Jie Ng Yes, EXACTLY!!
There's also him saying that blackholes are invisible, and that Sister Location came before the Bite of '83 (using evidence that clearly stated that it came AFTERm) All of these things are making me quickly lose respect for his findings.
He's GREAT at doing research and finding evidence, and also doing some conplex math here and there. However, he is terrible at drawing conclusions, as he ignores or disregards clear evidence. I mainly watch his videos for the details he finds, not really the conclusions he makes.
But at that point Thor didn't have his any of his Asgardian strength. He was comparable to an above average human in strength, as per his fight with the shield agents. Plus he crushed Iron-man's gauntlet with hardly any effort while hulk was putting incredible effort into lift the hammer.
And Thors powers had been taken away from him at that point.
Thank you! At least someone talking a bit of sense!
3:37 he said that to make a bluff to hulk who was possessed by an asgardian which made him more stronger than he regularly is and literally blasted him into space saying "DID YOU NOW"
I'm pretty sure it wasn't a bluff, he really just wanted to throw this line
I think I found a problem with your theory. Your ending conclusion was based on the force one of Hulk's feet produced, but when lifting Mjolnir Hulk was using his entire body to try and pick up the hammer. The force he produces when trying to pick up Mjolnir would then be from his entire body. When you compare that to Thor using one hand to crush Tony's suit it can be seen that Thor can produce 3,456,000 pounds of force WITH ONE HAND, not even both of his arms. If I am missing something could somebody please point that out, but looking at it this way makes it seem as though Thor is much strong.
P.S. love the show and have been watching for a really long time. Keep it up it brightens my day every time I see that you guys uploaded something.
Vincent Keiper IV the hammer is spelled for thor to pick it up.
Vincent Keiper IV You're missing a big point fam. In movies, hulk is seen ripping through industrial material, as well as many of iron man's suits and shit just as easily as Thor. Not to mention, also in the movies and In the comics, iron man's suits are not only able to be disintegrated by a hand, but also by a bullet (which in this case would be weaker by A HIGH amount), a punch from captain America (who is human with peak human performance, so imagine Batman levels of strength), a missile, and many other things. The alloy is obviously weaker than he stated, also it's factually flawed because he compared the alloy to a real life counterpart, which wouldn't technically be a counterpart at all due to the fact that the fictional plot allows this metal to potentially be weaker than stated. A real life source doesn't always apply 100% to a fictional source. In real life. There's more to this but I don't feel like going too in depth.
The Film Theorists
Fucking stop already.
It's weird that so many seem to forget it since he even showed it in the video, but comparing what Hulk did to the Hulkbuster, an armor specifically made to beat him, makes Thor's grip strenght look cute by comparison.
Did you just say that Captain America is just a human at peak strength? Captain America is the Super Soldier - he has been seen flipping trucks and lifting small cars.
You proved yourself wrong by comparing deadlifting to grip strength
Was just about to comment this, what a fucken idiot 😂
420 dakmemes stfu
@@potatostomatoes4599 You try to make a better video and not make mistakes.You can give constructive criticsm,but swearing at him without giving him any feedback is just stupid.
@@suppyboyson9400 calm down nancy, your not my mum you cant tell me what to do
and I assume that you've got 100% on every test you've ever taken? I'm just saying because you called matpat an idiot for making an error so unless you are an incredible genius you are being incredibly hypocritical.
I'd say this theory has to be thought of a little more. Hulk put a lot of his effort into the floor cracking part, Thor didn't even break a sweat, much less a grimace, when crushing iron-mans arm.
with nothing but some wrist and thumb muscles, it would take way more strength to crush iron man's arm
Are you stupid. Hulk is nothing in front of Thor
Well no it wasn't a mistake on the part of the video, because the video said the hammer itself was a mute point...
Thor was doing a crushing motion and hulk was pushing. Thor had it easier
naw man, once you get down to numbers w/ force needed it all levels out. Also the act of using the entire body as a sort of driver is far easier than the act of using your hand to crush something. Thus why you can crush say an Apply with your leg but not squeeze it apart.
You should redo this theory now that we have some moments in endgame to help show some true potential of thor's strength. Like when he restarted the neutron star forge of Nidavellir. I think that it would be cool to look at the physics of this scene to see just how strong you'd have to be to even come close to this feat of strength.
Would be a cool video, but come on hulk stomps.
@@dragoontime not MCU Hulk. In comics Hulk is a beast but in MCU Hulk is very very weak.
Hulk digs his feet into concrete by putting his entire enraged muscular system to work.
Thor outputs nearly the same amount of force with a single hand.
So clearly, this means Thor is weaker since that particular number is smaller.
Bang up job.
MrThirtyH ikr
The force that hulk put out isn't the total, but the force per foot. So double it.
and he didnt put all his strenght into crushing iron mans armor
Ya that force if for one foot did you not pay attention
Well, this is MatPat, someone willing to go above and beyond to do the bare minimum required to get 12 year-olds to like his shit
Your conclusion is wrong - Thor did not have his powers when he tries to pick up the hammer, hence his feet not sinking into the floor, as he was, essentially, the same as a human wrestler - strong, but only about the strength of someone like The Rock.
Also in Thor: Ragnarok he punches Hulk when he finally uses his new powers and sends the green guy flying, as he was holding back the entire time trying to get through to Hulk to help him, rather than fight him. If The Grandmaster hadnt zapped him, who knows what would have happened.
In the comics, Thor has multiple abilities besides strength. Comics Thor is more powerful than any version of the Hulk, especially when he has his enchanted belt of strength, Asgardian steel armour and the Odinforce, or more accurately Thorforce, when his father died and passed the power to his son.
Also, never question Stan Lee on his own creations.
fr
Thought thor was physically stronger than a normal human, i doubt his strength was that low
About time someone puts some knowledge into the comment section
If Thor is that weak without his hammer, then the Hulk takes it easily. Not exactly a fair comparison if Thor is only relevant due to a super-magic item.
"Hey guys who would win in a fight. Some kid I picked up at the orphanage or the Flash with the Infinity Stone of Speed?"
Vidya Games no he doesn’t get his powers from the hammer dipstick have you even seen Thor ragnarock or any of the comics or other movies
8:33 Either Jarvis is understating the power overload slightly because he uses a British voice setting, or because that extra 75% doesn’t need to be stated when a 400% charge exists already.
Well Thor crushed Iron Mans gauntlet with one hand and the hulk was using at least both his arms and his back. So Thor’s two arms must be stronger. In the scene where Thor is trying to lift the hammer while he is unworthy Thor does not have his powers so he has only human levels of strength.
TheSkyHadAWeegee Not mention that hands are weaker than legs, Thor's legs must be hella strong
The Film Theorists
Is the big surprise that you're a scam account, or that I just reported you?
As I told another comment, we aren't calculating his arms or back, only his legs. The amount of force he's using to smash his feet into the ground is not affected by the amount of force he's exerting with his arms or back.
Shadow S. Korosu That's not scientific at all
Thor uses mjolnir to focus his power, but thor without his hammer is still damn strong plus can summon thunder. He beat up hulk without problem.
Hulk was doing a dead lift. Thor was squeezing. Different muscle groups.
Thor generated that force with his fucking forearms. Thats insane.
Yeah! And Hulk used his whole posterior chain which is like 10000x stronger than just the forearm muscles. Also when Hulk tried to pick up the hammer he looked like he was using all of his power on the other hand Thor crushed Ironmans suit effortlessly. Btw: I really like your vids but i think you messed up a bit this time.
This
Thor is stronger pound for pound and he has fighting srats
2:12 "I wanna determine who is literally the strongest, not who would win in a fight"
*proceeds to determine who would win in a fight*
Lol true
I never realized that
I just realised that as well=)
I'll pretty sure my legs output more force than my hands.
When Thor can almost match Hulk's deadlift with his grip and still be deemed weaker
Just goes to show even "gods" have a hard time with the hulk
@@sherryelder9511 that’s not what it shows nor was that the OP’s point
The point was that MP’s conclusion makes no sense, especially with the evidence he himself presented
@@sherryelder9511 If Thor’s fingers and forearms output nearly as much as Hulk’s legs and torso, logically Thor’s Legs and Torso should be able to lift immensely more
I'm glad so many people are noticing the unfair comparisons.
like how your legs are twice as powerful as your hands or arms?
Yeah, except he wasn't lifting with his legs, he was lifting with his hands, which was the force that pushed him into the ground, you can't push down harder than your weight without an external force, and the force was applied by his arms.
MASTERGRIEFS when you lift something from the ground you use your whole body to do so
rcsteel music yes this is true but ur feet apply more force then ur arms are applying to lift the object hence why hulk was breaking the ground if this was a fair test mat pat would consider that he needs to test hand on hand and foot on foot. A Foot and hand comparison is not fair because hulk weighs more I assume which would appeal to the force hulk is giving through his feet
rcsteel music he’s lifting with his arms , if you try lifting a weight that was too much for you your feet sink into the ground the more you try , that’s essentially what’s happening , he’s not lifting with his legs , he’s putting all his might into his arms
Hulk was always one of my top favorite marvel superheroes ever since I was a kid. I was really disappointed to see that the MCU didn't make more use of him considering that he's such an immensely powerful force.
Just wanna mention that hulk uses the strenght of his entire body while trying to lift the Hammer but Thor just needs his forearms and fingers to crush iron mans suit
@@cycle4893 ???.
With his non dominant hand
UltraMagicOwl Playz he meant seeing hulk try to pick up the hammer and seeing the amount of force his foot put out was not just from hulks leg, but from his whole body. Mat put this measurement against Thor’s one hand strength feat and concluded hulk is stronger, but if Thor can do almost what hulk can do with one hand, what’s saying Thor can’t do way more if he uses his whole body
UltraMagicOwl Playz he is talking about when hulks feet are sinking
@UltraMagicOwl Playz its supposed to mean he used his entire body power to break the ground
HOLD UP... When hulk is lifting Thor's Hammer in the Helicarrier he is clearly using many more muscles pulling the hammer with his arms and the force going from his feet into the ground thus digging himself into the tarmac... Thor is only using one hand... clearly using less muscles to crush Iron Man's gauntlet... So Thor's hand can exert 300 thousand pounds of force less than all of hulks arms. There is a little thing for ya Matty boy. Plus in Thor Ragnarok he would have beaten the Hulk but he got tazed and stuff. He doesn't need his hammer so all of your points about him using the hammer to beat the Hulk are now voided
Blake Adcock I mean it's not like hulk has never dented iron mans suit before
Hulk dented the hulk buster suit which is 17 times stronger than the Iron man suit.
also, we don't know that crushing ironman's gauntlet even uses all of thors strength. Also, thor is only using his forearm mucles, whereas hulk is using his whole body. It is just not a fair comparison.
Dylan Autry he didn't just sent it, he tore them apart lol
Was searching for this. Thor uses his Hand and Hulk his whole body. If I could bring up 34/37 the force of what a Deadlifter can lift up with only my Fingers, I wouldnt really consider myself weaker..
Like the video but the end results were Thor's grip strength and the Hulk's leg extension and dead lift strength. And both numbers are minimum approximations at that.
If we took both of your numbers as their maximum output I'd actually assume that Thor is stronger--since his grip strength is controlled by relatively small muscles in his hand. When those same muscles are scaled up for the rest of his body he'd be stronger.
I went ahead and did some quick researchon the correlation between grip strength and and leg extension strength to back my point.
I found this study:
journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstract/2011/03001/Hand_Grip_Strength_as_a_Predictor_of_Muscular.156.aspx
Now its correlative which means its not the best evidence for a causal relationship, but essentially, if its interpreted outside of the research's normal intent. you're looking at a 2.98 average factor between grip strength and leg extension force among athletes.
That mean's you have to take Thor's number's and multiply them by 2.98 to get an approximate leg extension force. 10,296,298.76 pounds of force.
That puts him above Hulk's 3,768,000 per foot.
Obviously that doesn't mean Thor is stronger than the Hulk--as both numbers are just minimums for their strength.
Still...
A good vid though.
Why does this not have more likes?
Edit: It now has a lot more xD
Where do you think this is....Reddit? :P
........NEEEEEERRRRRDDDDDDDD
True, though I'd also want to point out that what the iron man suit is made of, and that alloy mentioned in the video - aren't necessarily the same thing.
Plus, Thor pulled on the hammer until he finally gave up without leaving a sizable footprint - in wet dirt.
Hulk dented the ground in the helicarrier, and still would have kept going if he wasn't interrupted
Maybe not the best comparison situationally, but tbh I just want the hulk to win. The old 'he's literally a God'-card everyone plays with Thor gets old perty fast
Lonny Wortham II nerd
Okay I’ll be honest. I think a lot of the evidence here is just design choices.
it may be, but to be fair the source material is not very reliable.
In the first Thor movie Thor is shown to be just as strong as a normal person without his hammer. Later on different movies his strenght is pretty much the same without his hammer the only difference being that he can't fly nor use lightnings
But matpat legs have 4x the potential of your arms so you would divide by 4 on hulks side for an even estimate
And Thor only used his fucking fingers
What is this?
(This is to a spam that was here, for the future people)
And Hulk's feet is bigger than Thor's hand
Spam. Report it.
Matt is wrong
It made me sad when I heard Stan from that interview. :(
I would like to point out that the scene in which Thor tries to lift his hammer Odin has de-powered him making him as strong as a very buff human but still human also the hammer is at a more awkward angle and height for Thor to break rock and it was slippery ,therefore making this an unfair example.
On the other hand when Thor broke iron mans gauntlet he was using a single hand but when hulk dented the concrete he was using all of his muscles and strength. Therefore in conclusion i believe this theory to be false with no offence to matpat i'm sure you put a lot of work and time into this theory ,but hey that's just a theory a film theory ,thanks for reading aaaand cut!
THE GAMIN EAMONN another thing to note is that minolnir ( no idea how to spell that off hand) acts as a buff to Thor's existing strength assuming that the movies use that as cannon.
I agree, Though this theory is not a theory when one of the creators says that one is stronger. It is more like a wrong theory.
But as stated the hammer it self is not heavy, just those who are worth can lift it in the MCU.But lets says it is roughly 100 to 150 pounds, most "buff" can lift that easy. So yeah the actually action of lifting the hammer can't truely show their powers because of the spell on it not it's weigh.
So back to the iron man armor. Lets say both hulkbuster armor and the regular iron man armor are made out of the same materials, hulk is shown to crush and tear part of it in certain points of the fight. So from that I suppose they have roughly the same strength.
I honestly can't really tell which of the two is strong in the MCU but just base off of what Matt and others say about the iron man armor they are both at semi equal strength.
THE GAMIN EAMONN hulk did the same thing in the "go to sleep scene"....
The_ Archer1202 granted Stan Lee doesn't write these things anymore, which means newer feats aren't his planed cannon like hulk getting mad enough to break planets, not just hold them together.
Actually Hulk used his whole body to pick up the hammer while Thor exerted that amount of pressure to ruin Tony’s armor with one hand, ONE HAND.
Alexander StanSQ AHA HOW THE TABLES HAVE TURNED
actually theres magic involved soo its bullshit all of it.
XD TEAM THOR
Well... I would’ve also liked a short overall analysis on who would claim victory in a duel. Probably Thor, because his hammer weighs, like, 10^20 or something ridiculous.
Except that one can only lift Mjolnir if they're "worthy", assuming the Hulk isn't that means that he's lifting something that shouldn't be able to be lifted. The Hulk is stronger than magic and god created rules themself.
*SPOILERS FOR RAGNAROK*
I've just realised that MatPat is wrong as in the film we see Thor starting to harness his powers without his hammer, and he almost very nearly beats Hulk until the Grandmaster activates his Thor's security chip, electrocuting him. So Thor would've beaten Hulk, and Thor is stronger now he's able to harness the full capabilities of his lighting powers.
exactly
My man
Batman Jr. I think he's aware but even mentioning that point in the vid spoils it so...
BY THE POWER OF THOR
I will use this to TURN ON MY LIGHTS
Matpat did say its not about who would win in a fight, just their overall strength.
The lifting of the cat was part of a myth
Stan lee says thor would win, welp video over
He is Not the one who decides it facts do
@@testaccount9050 Stan made them, it can be whatever tf he wants
What Stan lee says is fact no Math will change that
@@jinmali correct.
@Vindex Stan lee decides the exact amount of strength Thor possesses. What he says is truth
Are you telling me you compared thor's grip strength to hulk using every muscle in his body?
Bob Saget YES! Finally someone noticed.
Yeah funny how he missed that even after narrating it lol
Bob Saget hulk still has more feats than hulk.
Akon Acorn hulk had more feats than hulk?
Bob Saget yeah... that’s not really an even comparison...
Holy hell watching this the day after Stan lee died, it feels really nice to hear Stan lee talking about what he loved most
I'm glad to see Thor finally man up. Or god up.
Because he was usually a pathetic disgrace in the Marvel animation.
R.I.P Stan Lee (he will be missed
Rip Stan lee
*sniff
Rip stan lee,
also i notice this video is asking, who is stronger, a god who fights with an unliftable(except to him) hammer, or a radioactive mutant that can barely lift it
I don't think MatPat compared the 2 correctly. When the topic of strongest Avenger rolls around I think what they mean is who has more destructive force behind their attacks, not who can lift more. Those 2 things are completely different. Just because I can lift 60 tons it doesn't mean I can punch with that force.
Thor's feet didn't sink into the ground when he tried to lift it because he had no powers at that time
That is also a great point, Odin's enchantment (up until ragnarok when destroyed) means unless thor has his hammer he does not have his ppower.
Thor was essentially a human.
Plus, it was raining, making the ground slicker than when the Hulk lifted it in the helicarrier.
But when Thor was crushing Iron Man's gauntlet he is not giving his all but Hulk gave it all in trying to lift mjolnir at the moment. Thor doesn't want to crush iron man's arm. But that's just my ques.
Manu Puri Only worthy can field Mjölnir.
A couple key things...
The number for Hulk was based on 1 foot. Both feet dented the ground, making that number at least double.
Second, it’s highly doubtful that Hulk was “giving his all”. That’s not the angriest Hulk has been. Plus, Hulk was crushing and ripping the Hulkbuster armor with relative ease, making an apples to apples comparison appear to give Hulk the edge.
Still, the amount of strenght you can accumulate in your feets is way higher, than in your hands, since your feet and mainly your legs contain way bigger muscles than your hands/arms (which Thor also used only one). Also Hulk used his whole body trying to lift the hammer, while Thor only used the muscle strenght of his one hand/arm. In other words, Hulk used pretty much all of his body muscles to get a bit more raw force, than Thor with only one hand. And he was not even trying to hurt Tony.
But still it is hulks foot
Comparing finger strength with weight lifting strength. You are a lot stronger when you weight lift...
Also a fun fact about Jormangunahydgflawe is that it's actually one of Loki's children in Norse Mythology sooooooooo... can't wait to see them tackle THAT
Thor tooked the power of a star in infinity war. bruuuhh.
Hulk barely joined techtonic plate
😂😂😂
That... that has nothing to do with strength. Hulk moving plates does.
You make it sound like he just lifted a normal weight
This is a strength comparison not durability 🤦♀️
Durability =/= Strength
Sporf Sporf it’s a motherfucking star the most powerful things in the outer space he withstanded that gets your fact right he’s not stronger, but can beat him
In the comics, as you try to pick up Mulnir , it gains mass without changing in size. Could Mulnir theoretically turn into a black hole if enough people try to pick her up at once?
Shit
Interesting
Darth NumNums didn't it exists out of multiple dying Galaxy's?
Watch Vsauce3's video. I think it will answer all your questions!🤗
Definitely, especially as it's already dense as it's made of material from a neutron star
Matpat you forgot a key point-- Muscle groups. When Hulk drove his feet into the ground he was using every muscle in his body trying to lift the Hammer. Compared to Thor who was only using his hand to crush Iron man's armor. If one hand can crush that much what happens if he uses two, Lifts with his legs, or idk puts his back into it. You got Hulks total body strength now we need Thors to make a good comparison.
Steven Langevin You have take in to account that Mat compared the alloy to literal steel beams, not to thin sheets like on the suit. Mat just took a steel beams max load, timed it by four and used that number, which is not right in anyway. So Thor would actually be much weaker if Mat would do his research and not be lazy. And even worse, he said that the alloy was 4x HARDER not tougher or more durable, see hardness has nothing to do with durability, hardness just usually makes things resistant to abrasion but makes the material brittle. This episode is one of the more innaccurate and lazily researched ones. Also, it seems like he wants Thor to be the winner, so that's that
It's time to stop Get some help dude you really have got to stop copy pasting this thing.
You know the movie I want to see? That time when Thor dressed up as Freyja and Loki was his hand maid so they could get Mjolnir back. Chris Hemsworth in a wedding dress. Tom Hiddleston in a bridesmaid's dress. Just imagine it.
FINALLY SOMEBODY BROUGHT THIS LEGEND UP XD A high five to you, my friend!
Spring Rose yeah and kills Thrymn
That moment where thor was struggling to lift his hammer, he didn't even have his super powers he was banished by odin in thor-1
U compared grip strength with his HANDS to the power of legs Of HULK legs are definitely stronger than the force of a hand 💯
legs, arms and torso
WAVY RAYROMERO83 leg day everyday bro
You realize you based Thor’s strength off of his wrist strength
10:21 stop and see the list.....predicted the endgame!!
But in ragnarok, Thor is able to use his powers better than with the hammer... Odin even says that the hammer was just meant to focus Thors power!!!!!
...nah, its obvious the strongest avenger is Hawkeye, as his bow needs 400 octillion pounds of force to move the string (obviously)...
Yeah, Duh and it takes 6 decillion kilograms of force for black widow to jump up to someones head to do her scissor take out.
DC characters be like
Rift WaIker ?
BlankKnightt well this comment just rendered Mats video pointless
BlankKnightt Cus like.....science
Y’all don’t understand that “strongest” doesn’t mean “winner.” Infinity Ultron from what If would beat DCEU Superman despite Superman’s (confirmed) strength scaling higher.
Another example would be Deadpool vs Captain America
That Thor scene where you reference his feet not sinking in, he wasn't in possession of his abilities. His super strength wasn't a factor. At that scene, he was just a really fit, and abnormally strong, not super strong, human.
Vaako1337 technically, Thor’s hammer isn’t the source of his powers. it’s meant to help him channel his abilities and control his power, so he would still have his god-like powers, even without the hammer, he just wouldn’t have been able to use them as effectively.
Conspirasister 64 Odin made him mortal
Conspirasister 64 his power was sealed within the hammer. Odin says the worthy possessor of the hammer would have the power of thor. Thor didnt have the hammer/wasnt worthy so he didn't have his powers. It is only after it is broken that he experiences powers without it.
well explain (SPOILERS AHEAD)
how thor uses his powers when Mjolnir is destroyed!! and if your going to use odin he says himself that Mjolnir was only meant to channel his powers!! oh and you should listen to Conspirasister 64, odin says himself that Mjolnir was not the source of his power!! and this is all in ragnarok.
NinjaGaming as you say it is all in Ragnarok meaning it was true when odin said it not that it had always been despite circumstance. I think that he clearly did not have his powers as odin said in the original thor movie who should ever be worthy and lift the hammer be granted the power of thor.
You know who's stronger than every Avenger? Winnie The Pooh
Js
Amen
Marcos Amparo that just became amazing ..
They should make a movie out of it
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
He atac
He protec
And he even giv suc
Eh, no
*Spoiler Alert for Thor: Ragnorok*
7:31 actually Thor is a god now in the MCU. That was the whole point of the movie, with Thor learning his hammer is just an outlet for his power that was never needed and having the blue electricity shoot out of his body. He is the GOD of thunder now
finally someone said it thank you
yeh he was also about to beat the hulk before the grandmaster shocked him, if he didn't want to keep banner alive then hulk would be dead.
Thanks for the spoiler
Arjey Batman actually no he didn't when i commented 'finally someone said it thank you'' only the bot had replied so KSG HD did stupidly press read more and blamed it on the guy even though there was a spoiler warning from the beggining
Is It really that big a deal, come on fellas you're al 12 anyway
Hulk was the strongest avenger... You know ever since he left in Age of Ultron he never came back to Bruce Banner. He started to not be an uncontrollable giant kid having a tantrum but instead just a strong guy. You wouldn't imagine seeing Thanos casually one punch a Leviathan wouldn't you? So that's part of why Hulk lost to Thanos in Infinity War.
But HULK's affect on the concrete is from his lower muscles and more while THOR's affect on gold-titanium alloy is from only his fingers. So THOR would have much more force in his lower body than HULK right? 🤔🤔🤔
EFFECT!
LiUnDe IRKIL you are god damn right
Holy shit that's true you just debunked the film theorist
Yeah I cringed when I saw his calculation. Physics is just not for MatPat :P
Not only his lower body, he's pulling the hammer with his arms, shoulders, and back, making the feet go down, and with his legs pushing up, so technically the strength of his entire body
at one point in the comics, hulk punched time itself and shook the multiverse with a clap
Thor was only using his hand, Hulk was using his whole body to dent the floor. When you factor that in, Thor wins. Also, we don't know that these are their max amounts of strengh, just what we've seen them do.
Conner Cadena i would say thor has more strength in any given moment but hulk has way more potential strength
FireSnipe And I would agree with you, I just didn't want to get into explaining that
That’s exactly what I was thinking
That was my first thought. How can Pat not see that. Fingers putting out that strength Vs body. But can we all agree they have Plot Strength. They are always only as strong as the story requires.
Exactly why matpat has to do more research than he thinks
telling stan lee he's wrong is like telling tony stark that jarvis is not actually called jarvis
Yeah but, Stan Lee said Thor would beat hulk in a fight, not who was stronger.
Sorry, I’m in defend Stan Lee mode
R.I.P Stan The Man Lee
RIP... RIP...
If stanlrey said thor would thor would win who agree
"With the greatest power of them all... research"
-Antivax moms
Smiley 12 mmmm interesting
My Dad owns racism 🤣
No infinity war spoilers
There are some thor ragnarok spoilers tho
Ok, Thor could beat Hulk with Mjolnir quite easily, and everytime he would get rid of it the Hulk would overpower him.
Well in Thor Ragnarok when Thor's hammer gets destroyed by his sister Hela, later on when Thor is battling Hulk in the arena Odin makes one last return to talk from the dead and gives him a vision that says that Mjolnir was just a tool to help Thor focus his power, after that Thor became much stronger and by those means he would have beat hulk if he didn't get shocked by the taser thingy.
*Frankie* Because that made him rune thor ithink plus this is who is the strongest hulk is
Yes, but if it's like the comics are then the hulk will just get stronger as he gets angrier; however the MCU has shown the hulk to be weaker than the comics considering the hulk smasher KO'd him which would never happen in the comics.
UnknownGaming OdinForce Thor came out of Ragnorak and over powered Hulk, Rune King Thor is even stronger Thor then the current Thor.
Infinity war spoiler
+Half of Asgard's dead, so that means half of his raw strength is gone, no?
John Fraire don't think it works that way.
Because a man's hand can totally compare to all the other muscles.
I seriously doubt that Thor's wrist and forearm can win against Hulk's thighs and calfs. Take into consideration what was happening. Thor was crushing using his hand, similar to how one would crush a can of diet coke* versus Hulk, who was basically trying to do something akin to a powerlift or a squat. Obviously, the relatively small muscles in Thors' wrist wouldn't claim victory to the entire force of Hulk's lower body trying his damnedest. But considering how close the numbers are, I'd still like to throw my hat into the 'Thor is stronger' ring. If Thor can still get close to the numbers Hulk's boasting yet he's only using his grip, I'd like to imagine a Norse god can hold his own against a gamma ray mix-up.
*NOT SPONSORED BUT I'M GONNA SHOVE IT DOWN YOUR THROATS LIKE A BIG SWINGING D--- ANYWAY, that's how we do at Film Theory™.
A chimpanzee's muscles are smaller than a human's but much much stronger.
Just pointing out that size doesn't matter hoss. Don't get all butt hurt triggered like some snowflake.
Obviously, I'm not a dumb meme, so I'm not butthurt, triggered or a snowflake. I think when it comes to muscle mass, size probably does matter. This isn't a Japanese cartoon where the character can be 5'4" and weigh 120 pounds yet still throw 2 tons of granite over their shoulder.
It's not a Japanese cartoon but it's an American comic lmao, people have magical powers and superpowers from radiation. Only the output matters so yeah I agree Thor is stronger because his grip strength alone almost matches Hulk doing a compound exercise
Glad someone else thought of this idea...ie. that no person's max strength would EVER be coming from their grip...which is what Thor's strength is measured by here. When he made the strength calculations (for crushing armor, and smashing asphalt), I was actually expecting him to compare wrist strength with deadlift strength. Can't believe Matpat, with all his nerdy calculations, wouldn't have thought of this...
Long story short, Thor is stronger by these calculations. FTW!
We know he is wrong because:
Stan lee is never wrong
Stan has made comics longer than MatPat has lived.
Lelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelelel
Catherine Jennings
What?
That very true Stan Lee made the avengers so he can change the strength of any avenger
TRUE
"Mat, did you forget a leg has maybe 2× strength of your arm, so even if I lower it to 1.5× it'll still be 5,184,000 of force, sorry to break it to ya :) "
I'd watch World Thor II
Toxic Strawberry this should be top comment not that kid who said he'd rather watch a theory
I didnt like thor 2 it was bad in my opinion
Toxic Strawberry same
Do the reich thing
they should definitely make it I would definitely watch it
matpat, Thor only used his fist to destroy Iron man's arm thing while Hulk used all off his body's stength to dig hus feet in to the Carrier.
U r soooo correct
Plus how can you say that thor crushing iron mans arm is thors maximum strength?
Hulk has infinite strength
He does look at my other comment
Harold Healthy are you insane?
10:21 holy moly even film theory predicted it 2 years before it actually happening
Rip Stan lee
The greatest man alive
Wahrt
The one who should defeat Thanos.
Alive?
@@miatheravenclaw7852 get out i cried enough
😪
I'm pretty sure one of the writers has stated that it depends on who the writer wants to win, is the stronger of the 2.
That's the issue with Marvel and DC. You can't really compare 2 different characters because there powers differ between writers. Super man is a great example of this.
But technically Stan Lee is still right, since in his mind the comics are just as important where Thor is actually a god. Honestly I just wanted to defend Stan. We miss you buddy, Excelsior.
Yes Mat, Stan Lee was wrong about his own creations. You truly understood that deadlifting and grip strength are the same thing.
nah
You not only compared non-max strength feats (I mean, Thor wasn't even trying that hard to crush iron man's armor), but you compared grip strength to entire body.
And also, here's a thought that is confirmed in the movie but is just plain common sense, the computer is not omnipotent, it was programed by Tony.
Like, I'm definitely not some form of weightlifter, but I'm reasonably fit, at the least. I could probably lift a couch a bit, but I couldn't crush a ceramic bowl.
That said, I don't particularly want to lift a couch or crush a bowl, partially because I don't have many bowls.
WizardOf dude what
My point is, strong or weak, someone lifting something is much more of the body used, and someone crushing something in their hand.
I just put a bit of a story.
AND Tony is a goddamned fucking troll, specially with Thor and the Cap.
I wouldn't use the Hulk's foot imprints and Thor crushing Iron Man's gauntlet as an accurate example. I say this because of the fact that different muscles would be in use; from what I saw only Thor was only using his arm and Hulk was using both arms and his back to lift it. (Don't quote me I'm just going off of the video and basic workout knowledge) I think that there are way to many things to take into account for that example.
SoundWave should have compared the ground not breaking for Thor? Or made it a spoiler video and showed thors new abilities
The ground did not break for Thor because in that scene he was as weak as humans are. His strength was also taken from him, like Mjolnir, by Odin. So of course the ground did not split, he was human.
I still think the outcome would be thr same in any scenario, with Hulk coming out on top in strength. Thor comes close, and is smarter than an enraged Hulk so would have a chance to win in a fight though.
Padraig Gribbin No, he was not human, he was essentially a human. Look at the hospital scene where mere mortals held him down. He was only in the hospital because he sustained injury via being struck by a vehicle. He tanks a lot heavier hits than that in the final battle of that movie without a scratch. He did not have his Asgardian strengths anymore. Odin enchanted him to be human until he was worthy of Mjolnir again.
Even if you would use the ground for Thor it just seemed like mud which wouldn't break under force and just move to the side. (Again most of my posts are based on footage from the video haven't seen these movies in a while)
Who else agrees that his intros are enough to ruin our childhoods?
After seeing the new avengers movie you might want to change your answer
Thanos had the gem of power. no one was gonna win a fist fight with him. Hulk did a better job at fist fighting than Thor at the beginning at least. I love both characters doe
Molition 300 yeah but did you see thor turn those big ass gears and take the full force of a star for "a few minutes"
Evan Heit how does taking the full force of a star dictate who is physically stronger
Wow.. if u compare them to this... Hulk could hold it for much longer because of his regeneration and skin
Molition 300 what does the power gem have to do with fist fight was he hitting hulk in the head with his gem
Hulk vs Thanos using no Infinity Stones= Thanos wins
Thor vs Thanos using all the Infinity Stones= Thor wins
Hm....
He did have the power stone but that was it
@@nfdaecorn7600 But he didn't use it. There was no purple glow during the fight
Dank Potatoes I know but he still had it and it increases his strength but he wasn’t trying that much
That doesn’t count Thor had a hammer and he thru it ..wasn’t even a fight ..in a fight thanos winning
T Bone well they fought in ragnarok and thor was destroying hulk until the grandmaster used the device to make sure hulk does not lose
5:00 it was more then just a plate. The planet it self was going to be destroyed. Like split apart.
Incredibly minor spoiler alert:
So are we just going to ignore the fact that Thor basically beat the Hulk in Ragnarok? The only reason why Hulk "won" was because the grandmaster rigged it.
Even though it's a spoiler, it should be a part of the theory if he wants it to be fair
I don’t understand why that makes Thor the winner it’s not like hulk was knocked out or anything in fact he was doing just fine
thunder powers is not brute strength...
Just because it was rigged, it doesnt mean Thor would win in a fair fight.
Isnt that Thor with "sparks" like Super Saiyan? ddnt he discover like his true potential after that talk with Odin? I hope Hulk will do a mess again in Infinity Wars
Thor is useing just his hand while hulk is useing his whole body
Smart
Nikola Knezevic ya but he also showed that when Thor tried to lift the hammer the rock didn't crack under his feet
Mido Qarni that was on Asgard
maybe the solid ground was stronger than the layer of tarmac?
Shaw Schmidt ya but there's always a loophole sometimes it's hard to find an answer I guess
captain marvel:
hold my eye ball
Did you guys hear that? I heard “According to Wikipedia,”
HMMM...
Hey it is safer now
Use Fandom you uncultured swines
Greater Egyptian Mapping usually trolls can't edit Wikipedia. It's usually professionals who have tested their theories and facts, not random people.
But it's about structural steel...
4:10 that face though 😂😂
Thor: *Trips over rock*
MatPat: THATS A HINT
You get all the data out, and (probably) double check it to make sure you've got the right numbers everywhere, but you come to the wrong conclusion.
You state there, that the Hulk, leveraging his entire body mass, as well as the full strength of his feet, core muscles, shoulders and arms, and it totals 7536000 lbs of force. (3768000 lbs per foot)
Then we have Thor, exerting 3456000 lbs of force in the battle against Iron Man, with ONLY HIS HAND.
Let me repeat that: THOR'S GRIP STRENGTH WITH ONLY ONE HAND IS ALMOST HALF OF THE STRENGTH HULK CAN LEVERAGE WITH HIS ENTIRE BODY!
So, if we add in the potential strength of Thor's arms, shoulders, core muscles, and legs, he should in total be stronger than Hulk.
Except we don't know if either of them were giving it their all.
That too, however, it is likelier that cinematic Hulk was using more of his strength than cinematic Thor in those examples.
Hulk was trying to lift a hammer to hit Thor in his rage, while Thor's example is that he was trying to incapacitate a mortal in a battlesuit.
Only one of them was in a state where he could make rational decisions, and therefore was possibly holding more back than the other.
hulk definitely was using full strength he was angry and wanted to pick up the hammer
Hulk broke a planet in half
Grip strength is always far less than lifting strength. The fact he was able to exert that much force is a hell of a lot more impressive than what the hulk did.
Let's scale it down: what's more impressive, breaking a coconut by squeezing it with one hand or by crushing it with your foot?
Umm.. Matpat did you turn the page in that FEAR Itself story. Thor was joking when he said t hat, since in t he very next page he does beat the Hulk. In fact while most of the fights end in a draw. The fights that don't end in a draw overwhelmingly have Thor win. In truth Thor's win record is Three Times Hulk's record against him.
yeah thor had just fought the serpent (one skyfather named Cul) and one amped thng right before that
+Felipe Souza and he has a lot of great feats incluiding: overcoming the pressure of a neuron star in his body, doing what the hulk did to stop the wrold for being destroyed (thor vs gorr of jason aaron) destroying many STARS with help of beta ray, surviving one solar sistem + explosion
+Felipe Souza and also man...hulk never lifted the hammer... Thor was a normal human in the film when he tried to lift (i know it was a joke but...)
+Felipe Souza and in the comics is also because of a enchantment men
He didn't beat Hulk in fear itself he just punched him to another continent
Seeing this theory after watching ragnorock is just
Mat pat: "no fighting, just lifting and punch strength"
Mat pat three seconds later: *talks about like 50 fights*
Well thor was stripped of his powers by odin so acctually thor was a normal human at the time he was trying to lift the hammer, so u are wrong my dear matpat.
Alvin Lindhagen bot for me i think hes right
But he wasn’t measuring that scene he was measuring when he crushed gold titanium alloy man’s arm
Exactly
Not entirely human, i assume he still had his strength and duribility
Very sorry if im wrong i havent watched it in a while
LLX LLX ur wrong but its okkk