Well, potentially having an engine go into regen mode or the system fails and puts the vehicle into limp mode in a combat zone probably isn't a good idea.
@@bradenconway9066 so you consider a vehicle going into limp mode on the freeway is the same thing as a vehicle that could be in a fire fight going into limp mode🙄.
Chemistry. Plenty of public papers out there for u to read for the last 20 yrs. Educate yourself. Hate the emissions because it's govt overreach. Not the actual technology
You said it gov't overreach . Also consider reliability. Diesel engines won't get half the miles with these emission systems choking them out. Somehow doubling manufacturing is also more environmentally cleaner. Plenty of common sense tells me different, but I'm just a dumb contractor. It sounds a lot like "trust the science" to me.
Emissions will continue to get worse until everyone is forced to go electric. Funny how the govt demands us plebs to use the emissions stuff that kill efficiency and reliability and greatly increase costs to buy, run, and maintain while the govt’s own vehicles run without them. It’s long past overdue to cut govt bureaucracies back down to the bare minimum.
One thing you guys failed to comment on… Bigger displacement with less power = great durability. Some of those diesels are rated to go a million miles. Those small displacement high output engines just won’t last.
Maybe if the engine was built in the 70s with the material science we have now we have the ability to do that with a smaller engine for just as many .miles
The greatest benefit to having a larger displacement engine is that it can produce adequate power, but not generate excessive exhaust temperatures to the point where the engine has to derate itself. I am a professional driver, and I have had several different engines in the various trucks I’ve had throughout the years. I also have owned 3 Ram 2500’s, 2 of which I still own. There is a huge difference in exhaust heat while towing between my 2022 Ram 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins, and my 2024 Freightliner Cascadia with a Cummins X15 pulling 80,000 lbs. My 6.7 Cummins exhaust temp will jump up to above 900° F at the DOC while pulling 15,000 lbs and like all 2022 Ram 2500’s it is rated at 380 HP and 850 lb ft of torque, which is more than enough power. My Cummins X15 will run consistently with an exhaust temp of 650° F or less at the DOC while pulling 80,000 lbs all day long. My X15 is rated at 450 HP and 1,850 lb ft of torque, which is a good combination of power and fuel efficiency. Long term average is about 9.0 mpg. The reason why they don’t just put a 6.7 Cummins capable of making 450 HP and 1,850 lb ft of torque in tractor trailers is because the engine wouldn’t last due to the extreme amount of heat generated to make that much power. The X15 is also capable of making an insane amount of power, but again the engine would generate an extreme amount of heat destroying the turbo, exhaust manifold, and the entire emissions system. Also, the X15 is designed to run 1.2 million miles before needing a rebuild. Unfortunately, because people continue to want more and more power the lifespan of the 6.7 Cummins as wells as the Powerstroke and Duramax is significantly shorter. In commercial applications the 6.7 Cummins has a max power rating of 240 HP and 680 lb ft of torque to maximize the engine’s lifespan, and that is honestly plenty of power for the majority of applications that use the 6.7 Cummins. The engine warranty in pickup trucks would probably be longer if they weren’t tuned to deliver as much power as they currently do, but to meet emissions requirements engine displacement and power output have to be carefully balanced.
Actually, CA govt wants the streets to be a public bathroom for druggies. John Sears, a nomad who travels all over the state with his 3 mules, was constantly thrown in jail by ignorant tyrant cops for traveling with his 3 mules completely legally on public roads. They do want you to get an EV, which they can determine how far you get by rationing electricity
All these new emissions systems have made the diesel truck market, commercial, and consumer unreliable and expensive to repair. It's an absolute joke and not fair to the end consumer.
I’m all for progress. I’ve owned a 2013 Cascadia for 3 yard now and dpf systems are a financial burden to fix. Just having to replace the one box and dpf filters is around $10k. You would think these components would be cheaper.
You should check out the S13/Scania engine in the new Internationals. It’s a diesel that does Not need an egr cooler or a VG turbo. Scania has had this engine in Europe for 10 years. They just came to the states.
@danapicray9040 Scania has diesels that are rated for north American standards. They are already used in Canada for various applications. Edison motors is planning to use them in their hybrid heavy-haul trucks.
Time for a very robust overbuilt single turbo straight 6 gas engine built for commercial. A new diesel is cool but the after treatment issues is why I've been dragging things around with a 6.4 for 6 years.
Former heavyline diesel mechanic here. I’m assuming youve never worked on a commercial diesel engine. You won’t be able to keep a solid front axle because they are much taller and overall bigger, and the Rams packaging can’t even fit a winch inside with the diesel engine as it is.
@marcochavanne we know they already fit a 6.7 straight 6 single turbo Cummins in a RAM, so they could fit a smaller displacement single turbo gas straight 6 as well. Possibly still minus the winch but the straight axle could obviously stay.
The DJT 533 CID 2 stroke inline 6 diesel used biodiesel as the fuel and lubricant and no oil changes are needed. Its can also start and run in either direction eliminating reverse gears. Its has 585 hp and 1860 ft-lbs torque.
We need our truckers for sure. They do an amazing job everyday. More efficiency is a plus. The cost of diesel is far more expensive than it should be, and everyone should demand this to be resolved. We also need much better usage and infrastructure for our rail system...there is no excuse for rail not to be used better and more efficient for all our benfits.
As much as I like the Turbo-4 in my Silverado I think all the down-sizing they're doing is bad. IMO, Ram's new Hurricane inline 6 should have been a 4.0l at the smallest and 4.9l/5.0 at the biggest. So it could have been around the same size as the old AMC engine previously used in Jeeps or it could have been as big as Fords 4.9l 300 inline 6. Two of the most known and reliable inline-6's to be put in anything. I find it funny with all of the insane emissions regulations that it's causing big trucks to go full circle with engines. Because GMC used to offer large displacement gasoline V6's made to go in big trucks as a cheaper option to diesels back in the 60's & 70's. I think their smallest V6 was a 5.0l and their biggest was a 10.4l. To anyone who wants to correct me, yes, I'm aware of the 702 but it wasn't a V6, it was a V12. What did all of them have in common? They were large displacement, low horse power and heavy duty.
A heavier duty gas might be a perfect idea. Stronger, and more likely to last since you don’t have def and the electric system worries me how expensive that emissions system is to replace or repair.
Be prepared, those gas engines will very likely have gasoline particulate filters. They've been common in the EU for quite a while and are on the Lincoln Nautalis SUV for next year in the US.
@@jeffs2809gas particulate is already in the USA. The new generation ecoboost for instance are already equipped with them. If you want a gas engine without one you better consider buying very soon.
My 2020 2500hd Silverado with the L5P engine was a lemon. 52 codes since new, traded it off on a 24 F350 with the 7.3L. The emissions and electrical problems on that truck was horrible and Chevrolet techs had no idea how to solve pretty much all of the issues with that lemon. Two service managers at different dealerships told me to just "Lighten It Up" and save me all the headaches. Unfortunately, I didn't want to do that. Do miss the power but not the limp modes and being left stranded in 7 states.
If you state doesn't do emissions testing, I think you totally should've "lightened it up". Deleted L5Ps are AMAZING trucks. Don't lift it, dont turn the power up, no coal rolling tunes. Just delete and tune it with stock power and it's reliable, still powerful, and sips fuel. How come you didn't want to?
In 2020 I got my first gas motor since 94. I love the 7.3. I Added dual exhaust out the rear. Added a 5 star tuner to adjust for possible larger tires and adjust speedo and changing the parameters of the tranny and slight power increase. Changes the truck nicely. I still tow 17k daily and I won't go back to a diesel. We have 2 of them, one with 162k our hot shot truck and my personal f250 with 88k.
Love this topic! Haven't watched to the end yet, but I just have to plug it here before I forget. *Speed of Air Engine Technologies* and *Speed of Air pistons!* You guys really need to research them a bit, because it really ties in with all of this, and it's also very relevant to pickup truck owners. Hope you read this and take it seriously. Love what you guys do and hope this can bring some hope to you and others, hope for the future of ICE:s
EPA can not do anything to force companies to follow their rules. They lost that fight in court and why companies are continuing to follow their rules is dumb. Congress hasn't changed any laws and burracrats can't make law!
As a Cummins certified tech I can absolutely tell you that there is no headroom for larger displacement on the B6.7 engine. This engine has no liners and can not even be bored if there is cylinder wall damage. It is commonly referred to as "the BIC lighter", as in its disposable. You have to remember that this engine is already an enlargement of the 5.9L. As NOx emissions limits are to be lowered in 2027, I was told that Cummins is looking at a turbo gas version of the 6.7 so that meeting NOx levels won't be an issue. Let's face facts. Cummins just paid a $2b fine for Ram trucks cheating emissions. The B6.7 engine has a rear geartrain, but the Ram version is still front geartrain, the ONLY application where this engine is used. With all the other applications of Cummins engines, do you really think they are happy with paying a huge fine just so they can sell Ram some engines, and then Ram puts their (non-compliant) aftertreatment system on it and Cummins gets screwed? I would be more inclined to believe that Ram would redesign their truck and put the L9 in it, but I think pigs will fly before that happens.
That complicated system will cause major headaches for years until it gets figured out. Also my Kenworth salesman said the truck prices are going to go up by 20 to 30,000 whenever that new system is unveiled.
Ok but that doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. For example, if you’re the janitor, you won’t hear about it. Second, manufacturers can hide new packages if they want, see Chrysler with the Demon engine. No one knew its power potential because they ONLY dynoed it at night and when no other dyno cells were running, hiding the fuel consumption as it tested into four digits
@@chrisrauschning7376 I agree 100%. It just took us ~125 years to get where we're at now. It's impossible to snap our fingers and have everything change in a very short time. Trying to do that, and throwing "billions and billions of $$" at it just leads to misappropriation, bad ideas, stealing, overspending, high cost, Then they want the Gvmt to bail them out too. Unions want crazy $$ for their members while companies bleed $$ from every crack in the wall. Then they want the public to buy $100k+ unproven, under performing, unreasonable units to replace tried and true dependable trucks. Sorry, I don't mean to rant so much, just had a big belly full for the last 4 years. I agree 100% with a well thought out plan for reducing carbon foot print. It's just far from what we have seen so far, and the waste $$ driving up the cost of everything is crazy. Peace... --gary
@@chrisrauschning7376 I agree 100%. It just took us ~125 years to get where we're at now. It's impossible to have them snap their fingers and change everything in 1/4 of that time. Throwing billions and billions of $$ at it just leads to massive misappropriations of everything. Every Tom, Dick and Harry have their hand out, and the Gvmt just hands out $$ like ice cream on a hot day. $55,000 for a 3 cylinder turbo 1.3L "disposable SUV" ?? OMG, just crazy. $80,000 for an "electric car" with a 300 mile range? That could be fine for the right person, right situation. But to tell everyone "this is what you will drive" is a bit crazy. It will take, IMHO, 1/4 the time it took to get here, to affect a large change to 75% electric, methane, propane or whatever. So sorry about the rant. I've just had a huge belly full in the past 4 years, and have said nothing. 8( God Bless America! Peace, . --gary
Diesels don’t make sense in pickup trucks anymore. You can get more capability out of a 7.3 gas than a 7.3 Power Stroke or 5.9 Cummins. The 6.2 Ford gas engine is super reliable. I’ve got hundreds of thousands of hard miles and no issues on one. EGR destroys your engine. This is why engines in big trucks don’t go the distance like they use to. I’ve been broke down with X15s and Detroits. I won’t have a diesel pickup because I shouldn’t have to spend thousands to delete it so it is “more reliable”. Then they removed all the sulfer from the fuel so you’ve got no lubricity with higher injection pressures. Fleets know you don’t diesel pickup trucks. It’s too expensive to keep them running. Only F-Bois buy them to be noise makers with short boxes so that’s would most dealers have on the lot.
There is a narrow niche for them and they were once upon a time a somewhat decent value and reliability proposition. Nowadays I agree there is little legitimate reason most driveways should have one in them. Horrible idea as an around town grocery getter and haul your butt to work and back rig. Local utility fleets have no reason to run them either because of all the idling. Over the road hotshot haulers, hardcore RV'ers or rodeo circuit types that have a trailer hooked most of the time and pound a lot of interstate miles and want an auxiliary tank, diesel is better.
I agree. I love my 7.3 gasser. It pulls anything I hook it up to with ease. The trucking company I worked for had nothing but problems with the emissions on all the new Kenworth, Peterbuilt and Freightliners.
@jrpriller i have heard of the oil and lifter issues on the mainly the commercial ones. From what I have heard its not as common as people are making it out to be. I am at about 44000 and nothing metalic in my oil yet.
For the fuel system. The problem with high pressure fuel system and sulfur is the sulfur builds up on the tip of the injectors and causes the tip to heat up and melt. Me personally I rather have a diesel then gas in a large pickup do to my experience it lasts longer. Gas motors only last so long getting beat on everyday. Most problems I see in diesel engines is caused by lack of maintenance and taking care of the engine. You can beat on a diesel engine but if you don’t maintain it it’s will die. Top three things I see is not changing fuel water separator causing water to contaminate the system. Lack of oil changes people like to change the oil at 10,000 miles it should be 5,000, and lastly not letting it run a regen and finish. Seen plenty of this engine hit 10,000 engine hours without any issues if you maintain them. Also have people put def in the fuel tank I have rain into that so many times.
Amigos ! The SCR Catalytic Selc System is already in all VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, since 2016 available, as Euro 6d and since 2022 , Euro 6e for Diesels. The EU Commission is as crazy as the Calif bureacrats ! Keep on Dieseling, friends.......our 3 liter 4x4 Merc GLE, 2021, with 330 HP and 700 Nm uses in mountaineous roads, highways some 7 to 8 l/100 km..!
Biggest difference on the Commercial engine side of things regarding HP, is that the 9 & 10L engines are governed to only 1900-2200 RPM depending on use/power selection. The 15L is governed down to 1700 rpm. Even the commercial 6.7 is only running up to 2600.
It depends on which X15 and which ECM setting you have. Both 1700 RPM and 2100 RPM are possible settings. You don't make any more horsepower past 1500, and sometimes not past 1400 RPM depending on the calibration. As long you have close enough spacing in the gearing, you can stay at make HP all the time.
Thank you guys. Interesting update. Our Isuzu Elf 3 tonne work tipper has a straightforward burn off setup i.e., not DEF; but if we are using the truck intermittently and for short runs only, it can require a manual burnoff initiated by a mechanic at our regular garage. The proposed electric-powered system would theoretically be, as Andrey has said, more reliable. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
I keep hearing that torque is king but that's not exactly true, duty cycle in my opinion is just as important or even more important. 6.7 powerstroke is a good example on a pickup it does well it doesn't see the load like it would see in f550-f750. I see a lot of engines catastrophically fail in f550 in as little as 30k miles because it just can't handle constant load factor in this application and that's where you need an engine with larger displacement and structurally heavier engine.
Downsizing usually involves adding turbos to an engine. Not only do diesels already have turbos but due to the class leading power war these engines are probably already reliably maxed out. Increasing displacement seems like a logical choice to boost power now and down the road when GM or Ford boost their power.
What they need to do Is strip away EPA from making fuel economy standards period and have them regulated everything else. And regulate not try to make laws offer their suggestions to congress like they are suppose to and then they can vote on it the way it’s suppose to operate. But have a separate board for vehicles. And that follows consumer demand.
If the new DPF doesn't eliminate the EGR, it's pointless, save the sales pitch. The EGR is what kills engines. The SCR/DPF systems are expensive and take maintenance, by they are not the problem.
The biggest issue with a gasoline powered class 8 truck will be a need for increased fuel capacity and having a difficulty filling up. Not many truck stops have gasoline pumps that you can easily get to
I would expect a 7th injector in the exhaust rather than relying solely on the electric heater. Also, I'm pretty sure those use a 48v electrical system to support the current required for the heater. I wonder if Ram/Cummins would go to a primarily 48v architecture or keep it primarily 12v and only use the 48v for the emissions. EPA rule requires significant reductions for Nox at idle and low load, I believe that's where the electrically heated dpf/scr is coming into play.
They never got on board with the separate DPF injector like Duramax and eventually Ford did. I don't know about their larger commercial engines. It's a good way to cook the back cylinder and turbocharger doing it the post injection and is not good for the engine's longevity.
The 2013 Thomas C2 school bus that I drive, with the 6.7 Cummins is rated at 240 hp @ 2400 rpm, it does maintain speed decently well with every seat filled pulling hills at full throttle, but it would be nice to not have to do that to stay at speed
Most buses including thomas have transmission control modules set at 5th gear (6th gear lockout) below redline at 65-69mph, in addition to engine rpm limiters to 2450-2650 rpm
My 2024 Ram 5500 is rated at 360 hp and 800 ft lbs torque with a 6 speed Aisin as69rc transmission. The Ram is used as a wrecker (it has a Chevron Renegade 408 T/A autoloader built on the chassis) and it’ll pull a ton of weight no problem and its speed is electronically governed at 87 mph. It comes down to what the engine is used for and how it’s programmed. The school buses and other chassis like our International flatbeds have the lower output Cummins 6.7’s but they do offer higher output options if you want it in those chassis. I could understand why they put the lower rated ones in a school bus they don’t need to go very fast and the school districts want good fuel economy. The lower output motors we have in a couple of our flatbeds are slow but they get decent fuel mileage for the size of the truck. We do have a few with a higher output as well. If you get into the consumer market (Ram 3500) they have the HO 6.7’s rated at a much higher output but the ones used in commercial vehicles are made to last a long time and be reliable. If they threw the HO engines in a commercial vehicle that’s pulling heavy loads constantly everyday they would not last nearly as long and they would drink fuel like crazy. That’s the biggest issue with the HO versions that people complain about is the fuel mileage and that’s why some people opt for the lower output Cummins engine. When it comes down to the commercial market what matters is fuel economy and long term reliability.
Can’t forget that Kilowatts of electric heat comes at a cost and will take a noticeable amount of HP from the engine to turn a generator. If you compare a gallon of diesel burned in an engine preheater or cab heater to using that same gallon of diesel to run a combustion engine to convert that energy from mechanical to electrical then to heat I’m not so sure you will see a gain in efficiency. I’d like to see it in action though. Time to heat the process in the after treatment might be a gain yes and at least the generator will add load to the engine during warm up on cold starts and get everything warm quicker. This is kind of like charging an EV from a grid that was generated from coal or burning fossil fuel and saying you are saving the world.
From my understanding they have been using this in Europe for a few years now. Don’t quote me, as the bookmark I had for this electric dpf got erased after my last IOS upgrade 🤨… Also all they have to do is run dual alternators in each truck, yes more parasitic loss but your not burning Gallons of diesel to clean the BS emissions crap….
I went out and bought a Godzilla and love it!! When I was looking for a new diesel, Idrove the Tremor. It had great power. When I opened the hood, all I could see was the EPA. I could not even see the motor. I had in the past a 7.3 and a bulletproofed 6.0. Both were awesome and reliable. The way that both were set up, they would throw you against the back of the seat. The only downside of the Godzilla is fuel economy when towing. The EPA ruined diesel reliability forever. From now on, its gassers for me.
Extreme combustion heat causes NOx, so yes, sometimes larger displacement at the same power as somewhat smaller displacement results in cleaner combustion. Fuel efficiency would be lower everything else equal, but emissions are what's hurting modern diesels far more than incremental fuel economy improvements. Class 2 and 3 trucks don't need higher power output in their diesels at this point -- they need more affordable service and maintenance costs. Anyone needing to tow more than 35,000 lbs. should really be looking at class 5-7 trucks, even if there's a small regression on power output as weight, frame strength and rigidity, and wider track are more crucial at this point.
I talked to a kw dealer and he thinks it’s going to be a nightmare! He said we are already having enough electrical problems and don’t need to add any electrical to it!
Related to the heavy duty market, I can confirm that the industry I work in is phasing out the B6.7 and will be transferring to the X10 for Diesel and CNG. Note with that massive and expensive new SCR/DPF comes a massive electric heater which requires its own alternator... Will it actually be more efficient if it consumes more power to keep it clean? We will find out...
The heaters for the exhaust take MASSIVE current! U cant have 2in diameter cables... so it has to be 48 or higher volts. Which is new for all the vehicles. Boom added more cost and risk.
Yes Andre, we like more displacement if it means less stressed, more efficient and more power. Your source seems to be making their rounds because the rumor of a 7.2L Cummins for the new Ram is coming from more and more places. Reasoning.. because of epa the engines have to produce more power to be further choked for more power.
U guys miss the fact the electricity to heat the exhaust has to come from somewhere! So now u add batteries that are insanely heavy. Less payload, etc.
I wish scania technology or something that is analogous to it makes its way to American diesel engines where they can achieve very low emissions and don’t need DPFs
HD pickups should have naturally aspirated 13 liter engines, no turbos, no def, for longevity, but the diesel companies need to relearn metallurgy. New diesel engines in trucks seem to need about 15,000 dollars of work every 50,000 miles because they are forcefed then choked at the other end.
Cummins engines these days are poor. They got a good name from the n14, 3.9, and 5.9, but the 2019+ cummins engines in the rams are very poor quality. I still have a 98 dodge with the 5.9, and the thing is bulletproof.
@@AkioWasRightnot sure what the smell of people have to do with this topic, but sounds like if smog is an issue that steps are taken to continue combatting that.
Scannia engines don’t have a need for DPF/DEF systems because they are efficient and meet regulations without it…. If only in America we could get those engines or get rid of the dpf system 😢
And the EGR will still be dumping exhaust into the intake. I just bought a 24 F350 7.3 and will be dumping my Ram 6.7 at the auction. DONE WITH DIESEL AND RAM!!!! Trans slipping and engine ticking, just replaced DPF, SCR, and EGR cooler. $7200!!!!
If there is an EGR system, or a crank case filter, it is not “cleaning the engine“. It is cleaning the DPF; the engine will still suffer with the other systems, no? 🤔
Any heavy-duty pickup with more than 385 hp, 850 lb*ft of torque is just for bragging rights. The EPA has ruined diesel engines for operating economy with their ridiculous NOx and particulate regulations. The required systems have increased initial cost, increased maintenance costs, and hurt fuel economy. Diesel engines have become uneconomical to operate, which is why Cummins is developing a heavy-duty gasoline engine. The fuel and emissions systems will be much less expensive than modern diesels with the alphabet soup of aftertreatment systems.
How about that Reducing efficiency leading to a greater carbon footprint Plus all the wasted resources transporting DEF to pumps and stores, and landfill waste as well What about the soot washed out of the DPF. It ends up back in the environment, all at once rather than slowly. Government solutions often create many more problems than it solves
Unless the medium duty market wants a bit more engine in their trucks would be the only way i see a 7.2. but if they do bring it the V8 competition is going to be struggling to make the ratings
Straight six diesel is most efficient engine but i know truck drivers who like Scania V8 not only have power up hill but have weight in right place to pull trailers. Cummins with gasoline straight six will good for Australians with Ford sixes get hard to get. Interesting if Cummins has revised 5.0lt V8 diesel that was in Nissan Titan?
If they are boring it out to 7.2 I would be even further concerned about blown head gaskets and cavitation. 5.9's rarely had HG issues but 6.7's can if you push them a little bit.
Is the 6.7L a new design block from the 5.9L? Or, is the 6.7L a bored out 5.9L? I would think that if the 6.7L was a new design, it could possibly be bored out to 7.2L. I doubt they would bore out a 5.9L block to 7.2L and expect it to last even through the warranty period.
With the Chevron ruling, hopefully the EPA will be put back under their rock & the automotive industry can get back to making great engines w/o all of the strangle hold emissions nonsense on them.
If you think EPA is a waste, then you should live in China for a month with their pollution filled air. Maybe it will change your mind, especially when you consider this Earth is not just for now, but for tomorrow for future generations. We need to do decent job of taking care of it.
Not to mention, some of us are old enough to remember seeing the air in LA. Didn't always kill us us that fast, sometimes it just made us very sick....
Not a fan of heavy handed government, but you’re the kind of person who throws away their children’s future for your temporary personal enjoyment. Clean air and water are more important to me than some V8 engine.
@@jackprick9797 Part of the reason China is so dirty and powerful is because industry we send them cannot comply with emissions regulations we created for ourselves.
Every comment here trying to defend the EPA is just illustrating the problem. Were not in f-ing china and 99% of us aren't in LA. Actions and requirements needed in those places are not needed in Dillon Montana or Bainbridge Ohio, but because the EPA is a one-size fits all tyranny, everyone suffers. Big government solutions ALWAYS create more problems than they fix and they ALWAYS suit the needs of special interests rather than the average American citizen.
I’m interested to see where GM takes their baby duramax, it may be my favorite engine so far. Only have 8k miles so time will tell but 25-35mpg is hard to beat.
The 6.7l is maxed out in size because of the camshaft in the block!!!! So if/when they go to overhead cams then the block could support larger pistons to increase displacement.... ask me how i know...
engine downsizing works in consumer half tons when trucks are unladen and power is not needed. But it will always take (X) horsepower to move any amount of weight at a given speed. And horsepower can be directly linked to fuel burn. shaving 100 pounds out of an engine bay is the biggest benefit to the ecoboost.
I still haven't adjusted to Cummins change from red to blue. It really messed things up because Valvoline had the Premium Blue diesel oil that they developed with Cummins.
THE 7.2 LITRE engine sounds like an Engine that Daimler Trucks and Cummins are rumoured to be developing Jointly ! To replace the Daimler (Mercedes) Oelmotor OM926~OM936 diesel.
The other day I experienced a DEF level sensor failure. Put my FreightLiner in DERATE. Even though the DEF was dosing and SCR was working. That’s a BS perimeter.
They're so obsessed with better burning cleaner engines, but that's not what consumers want, they just want reliability and affordability. Companies don't stay in business because of cleaner engines, they stay in business with reliable and affordable engines and the EPA is hurting the average American who can't afford the ridiculous emissions requirements. Can you imagine if the EPA puts Cummins out of business one day because of emissions and what horrible consequences that would have on America's economy??
NA gas engine are much lower in torque compared to TD. MAnufacturers need to make a 6 to 8 liter gas engine with 5'5k redline and low boost turbo to increase the torque significantly yet keeping fuel mileage and maintenance low.
The EPA needs to be sued. Chevron Deference has been overturned, they no longer have the authority to make arbitrary changes to emissions. They are acting outside of the legal system.
Sad to say, but looking forward to seeing the gas Cummins. Diesels cost to much and last half as long, thanks to emissions. I have an 18 ram dually with Cummins and I only drive to work and come home. It's 6 years old and has 32k on it. All my running around is with a half ton gasser.
I run a 2003 Volvo with 5.5L common rail and Allison for "Truck" its cheaper than any Silverado, Ram or ford to run, fix etc and its full airbag snd higher GCM
The fact government and military vehicles are exempt from emission regulations shows how bad we're getting screwed
Well, potentially having an engine go into regen mode or the system fails and puts the vehicle into limp mode in a combat zone probably isn't a good idea.
@@beags1979same as on a freeway going 80mph
@@bradenconway9066 so you consider a vehicle going into limp mode on the freeway is the same thing as a vehicle that could be in a fire fight going into limp mode🙄.
@@beags1979the majority of military vehicles are used stateside on training bases.
I think success in war sort of trumped any eco friendly arguments lol
Funny how emission systems make an engine less efficient/ burn more fuel. And this is somehow cleaner for the environment. 😂
Chemistry. Plenty of public papers out there for u to read for the last 20 yrs. Educate yourself. Hate the emissions because it's govt overreach. Not the actual technology
It's the NOX , really bad to breathe in. Will give you asthma
You said it gov't overreach . Also consider reliability. Diesel engines won't get half the miles with these emission systems choking them out. Somehow doubling manufacturing is also more environmentally cleaner. Plenty of common sense tells me different, but I'm just a dumb contractor. It sounds a lot like "trust the science" to me.
Emissions will continue to get worse until everyone is forced to go electric. Funny how the govt demands us plebs to use the emissions stuff that kill efficiency and reliability and greatly increase costs to buy, run, and maintain while the govt’s own vehicles run without them. It’s long past overdue to cut govt bureaucracies back down to the bare minimum.
@@crazyhass84lol. If the technology was great then nobody would hate the government over reach.
One thing you guys failed to comment on… Bigger displacement with less power = great durability. Some of those diesels are rated to go a million miles. Those small displacement high output engines just won’t last.
7.3 idi says hi.
I believe the 6.7 ram claims it will last 250,000 miles. You have a good point
@@herculesinwyoming 284k on 2 Ram Cummins. Oil leak at front seals are biggest problem for me
Maybe if the engine was built in the 70s with the material science we have now we have the ability to do that with a smaller engine for just as many .miles
@@lucwilson1 to your credit, duty cycle matters. The little engines make great numbers but they will be worked hard when towing. Really hard.
The greatest benefit to having a larger displacement engine is that it can produce adequate power, but not generate excessive exhaust temperatures to the point where the engine has to derate itself. I am a professional driver, and I have had several different engines in the various trucks I’ve had throughout the years. I also have owned 3 Ram 2500’s, 2 of which I still own. There is a huge difference in exhaust heat while towing between my 2022 Ram 2500 with the 6.7 Cummins, and my 2024 Freightliner Cascadia with a Cummins X15 pulling 80,000 lbs.
My 6.7 Cummins exhaust temp will jump up to above 900° F at the DOC while pulling 15,000 lbs and like all 2022 Ram 2500’s it is rated at 380 HP and 850 lb ft of torque, which is more than enough power.
My Cummins X15 will run consistently with an exhaust temp of 650° F or less at the DOC while pulling 80,000 lbs all day long. My X15 is rated at 450 HP and 1,850 lb ft of torque, which is a good combination of power and fuel efficiency. Long term average is about 9.0 mpg.
The reason why they don’t just put a 6.7 Cummins capable of making 450 HP and 1,850 lb ft of torque in tractor trailers is because the engine wouldn’t last due to the extreme amount of heat generated to make that much power. The X15 is also capable of making an insane amount of power, but again the engine would generate an extreme amount of heat destroying the turbo, exhaust manifold, and the entire emissions system. Also, the X15 is designed to run 1.2 million miles before needing a rebuild. Unfortunately, because people continue to want more and more power the lifespan of the 6.7 Cummins as wells as the Powerstroke and Duramax is significantly shorter. In commercial applications the 6.7 Cummins has a max power rating of 240 HP and 680 lb ft of torque to maximize the engine’s lifespan, and that is honestly plenty of power for the majority of applications that use the 6.7 Cummins. The engine warranty in pickup trucks would probably be longer if they weren’t tuned to deliver as much power as they currently do, but to meet emissions requirements engine displacement and power output have to be carefully balanced.
california air research board wont be satisfied until the freeways & streets are full of mule & horseshit.
Actually, CA govt wants the streets to be a public bathroom for druggies.
John Sears, a nomad who travels all over the state with his 3 mules, was constantly thrown in jail by ignorant tyrant cops for traveling with his 3 mules completely legally on public roads.
They do want you to get an EV, which they can determine how far you get by rationing electricity
They would fine you for the horse💩
Look at LA pictures before the 70s ,bad SMOG
👌😂👏👏👏👏👏👏
CARB is currently stroking their hard on for CA streets filled with human feces.
Think I'd rather invest in older vehicles versus these new ones which are way over-engineered.
CARB is a joke.
It’s a trade off do you want engine problems or to replace a bunch of rubber component due to age
California should accept electric only deliveries and see how that goes for them.
Cali only allows exhaust filter model diesels in big trucks in their state now!
All these new emissions systems have made the diesel truck market, commercial, and consumer unreliable and expensive to repair. It's an absolute joke and not fair to the end consumer.
Make sure you vote your statement. All this decarbonization crap causes that.
I’m all for progress. I’ve owned a 2013 Cascadia for 3 yard now and dpf systems are a financial burden to fix. Just having to replace the one box and dpf filters is around $10k. You would think these components would be cheaper.
You should check out the S13/Scania engine in the new Internationals. It’s a diesel that does Not need an egr cooler or a VG turbo. Scania has had this engine in Europe for 10 years. They just came to the states.
I have a 13L scania in my lobster boat and it’s a fantastic engine
Europe diesels aren’t rated for US
Europe let more shit slide when it comes to diesel emissions than the United States of Commifornia.
@danapicray9040
Scania has diesels that are rated for north American standards. They are already used in Canada for various applications. Edison motors is planning to use them in their hybrid heavy-haul trucks.
I think the US version cummins B6.7 (2021+) no longer uses an EGR
Time for a very robust overbuilt single turbo straight 6 gas engine built for commercial. A new diesel is cool but the after treatment issues is why I've been dragging things around with a 6.4 for 6 years.
Former heavyline diesel mechanic here. I’m assuming youve never worked on a commercial diesel engine. You won’t be able to keep a solid front axle because they are much taller and overall bigger, and the Rams packaging can’t even fit a winch inside with the diesel engine as it is.
@marcochavanne we know they already fit a 6.7 straight 6 single turbo Cummins in a RAM, so they could fit a smaller displacement single turbo gas straight 6 as well. Possibly still minus the winch but the straight axle could obviously stay.
It’s called the 6.7 octane from Cummins it already exists
@@marcochavanneactually a winch does fit. There are companies marketing them now.
The DJT 533 CID 2 stroke inline 6 diesel used biodiesel as the fuel and lubricant and no oil changes are needed. Its can also start and run in either direction eliminating reverse gears. Its has 585 hp and 1860 ft-lbs torque.
We need our truckers for sure. They do an amazing job everyday. More efficiency is a plus. The cost of diesel is far more expensive than it should be, and everyone should demand this to be resolved. We also need much better usage and infrastructure for our rail system...there is no excuse for rail not to be used better and more efficient for all our benfits.
Oil companies make record profits every time they report their quarterly earnings....because they can. Their greed can't be stopped!!
3 bucks a gallon is great. Yall are embarrassing to let the world know how broke you are by your own shortcomings
As much as I like the Turbo-4 in my Silverado I think all the down-sizing they're doing is bad. IMO, Ram's new Hurricane inline 6 should have been a 4.0l at the smallest and 4.9l/5.0 at the biggest. So it could have been around the same size as the old AMC engine previously used in Jeeps or it could have been as big as Fords 4.9l 300 inline 6. Two of the most known and reliable inline-6's to be put in anything.
I find it funny with all of the insane emissions regulations that it's causing big trucks to go full circle with engines. Because GMC used to offer large displacement gasoline V6's made to go in big trucks as a cheaper option to diesels back in the 60's & 70's. I think their smallest V6 was a 5.0l and their biggest was a 10.4l. To anyone who wants to correct me, yes, I'm aware of the 702 but it wasn't a V6, it was a V12. What did all of them have in common? They were large displacement, low horse power and heavy duty.
A heavier duty gas might be a perfect idea. Stronger, and more likely to last since you don’t have def and the electric system worries me how expensive that emissions system is to replace or repair.
Now all you have is the engineering of a straight six, large displacement, fitting it into a truck.
Be prepared, those gas engines will very likely have gasoline particulate filters. They've been common in the EU for quite a while and are on the Lincoln Nautalis SUV for next year in the US.
Oh you mean like the 7.3 Godzilla? Lol it’s the whole reason i bought one, handles 10-15k lbs easily with no emissions shit to worry about.
@@jeffs2809 also now on the 2025 ford maverick with the 2.0L
@@jeffs2809gas particulate is already in the USA. The new generation ecoboost for instance are already equipped with them. If you want a gas engine without one you better consider buying very soon.
My 2020 2500hd Silverado with the L5P engine was a lemon. 52 codes since new, traded it off on a 24 F350 with the 7.3L. The emissions and electrical problems on that truck was horrible and Chevrolet techs had no idea how to solve pretty much all of the issues with that lemon. Two service managers at different dealerships told me to just "Lighten It Up" and save me all the headaches. Unfortunately, I didn't want to do that. Do miss the power but not the limp modes and being left stranded in 7 states.
If you state doesn't do emissions testing, I think you totally should've "lightened it up". Deleted L5Ps are AMAZING trucks. Don't lift it, dont turn the power up, no coal rolling tunes. Just delete and tune it with stock power and it's reliable, still powerful, and sips fuel. How come you didn't want to?
I love my 7.3.
I mean because it is a felony...@@Deleteguest
In 2020 I got my first gas motor since 94. I love the 7.3. I Added dual exhaust out the rear. Added a 5 star tuner to adjust for possible larger tires and adjust speedo and changing the parameters of the tranny and slight power increase. Changes the truck nicely. I still tow 17k daily and I won't go back to a diesel. We have 2 of them, one with 162k our hot shot truck and my personal f250 with 88k.
Love this topic! Haven't watched to the end yet, but I just have to plug it here before I forget.
*Speed of Air Engine Technologies* and *Speed of Air pistons!* You guys really need to research them a bit, because it really ties in with all of this, and it's also very relevant to pickup truck owners. Hope you read this and take it seriously. Love what you guys do and hope this can bring some hope to you and others, hope for the future of ICE:s
EPA can not do anything to force companies to follow their rules. They lost that fight in court and why companies are continuing to follow their rules is dumb. Congress hasn't changed any laws and burracrats can't make law!
As a Cummins certified tech I can absolutely tell you that there is no headroom for larger displacement on the B6.7 engine. This engine has no liners and can not even be bored if there is cylinder wall damage. It is commonly referred to as "the BIC lighter", as in its disposable. You have to remember that this engine is already an enlargement of the 5.9L. As NOx emissions limits are to be lowered in 2027, I was told that Cummins is looking at a turbo gas version of the 6.7 so that meeting NOx levels won't be an issue. Let's face facts. Cummins just paid a $2b fine for Ram trucks cheating emissions. The B6.7 engine has a rear geartrain, but the Ram version is still front geartrain, the ONLY application where this engine is used. With all the other applications of Cummins engines, do you really think they are happy with paying a huge fine just so they can sell Ram some engines, and then Ram puts their (non-compliant) aftertreatment system on it and Cummins gets screwed? I would be more inclined to believe that Ram would redesign their truck and put the L9 in it, but I think pigs will fly before that happens.
That complicated system will cause major headaches for years until it gets figured out. Also my Kenworth salesman said the truck prices are going to go up by 20 to 30,000 whenever that new system is unveiled.
Because of the warranty the EPA is forcing the manufacturers to implement on emissions systems.
First of all no truck person thinks a smaller displacement is better
💯
There has been no news about a bigger B series engine (engine in the Ram) in Cummins. I've worked here for 20 years.
There are a lot of AI generated videos spreading lies to gain views. Hopefully TFL didnt fall for that
Ok but that doesn’t necessarily mean it doesn’t exist. For example, if you’re the janitor, you won’t hear about it. Second, manufacturers can hide new packages if they want, see Chrysler with the Demon engine. No one knew its power potential because they ONLY dynoed it at night and when no other dyno cells were running, hiding the fuel consumption as it tested into four digits
It is also going to depend a lot on next Tuesday! (11-05/2024) Please VOTE, return some sanity to the industry! Peace --gary
Maybe, but there's a lot of other forces at play
@@chrisrauschning7376 I agree 100%. It just took us ~125 years to get where we're at now. It's impossible to snap our fingers and have everything change in a very short time. Trying to do that, and throwing "billions and billions of $$" at it just leads to misappropriation, bad ideas, stealing, overspending, high cost, Then they want the Gvmt to bail them out too. Unions want crazy $$ for their members while companies bleed $$ from every crack in the wall. Then they want the public to buy $100k+ unproven, under performing, unreasonable units to replace tried and true dependable trucks. Sorry, I don't mean to rant so much, just had a big belly full for the last 4 years. I agree 100% with a well thought out plan for reducing carbon foot print. It's just far from what we have seen so far, and the waste $$ driving up the cost of everything is crazy. Peace... --gary
@@chrisrauschning7376 I agree 100%. It just took us ~125 years to get where we're at now. It's impossible to have them snap their fingers and change everything in 1/4 of that time. Throwing billions and billions of $$ at it just leads to massive misappropriations of everything. Every Tom, Dick and Harry have their hand out, and the Gvmt just hands out $$ like ice cream on a hot day. $55,000 for a 3 cylinder turbo 1.3L "disposable SUV" ?? OMG, just crazy. $80,000 for an "electric car" with a 300 mile range? That could be fine for the right person, right situation. But to tell everyone "this is what you will drive" is a bit crazy. It will take, IMHO, 1/4 the time it took to get here, to affect a large change to 75% electric, methane, propane or whatever. So sorry about the rant. I've just had a huge belly full in the past 4 years, and have said nothing. 8( God Bless America! Peace, . --gary
Your vote doesn't count. Oligarchs run the show.
@@chrisrauschning7376with the anti-American NWO party......
Diesels don’t make sense in pickup trucks anymore. You can get more capability out of a 7.3 gas than a 7.3 Power Stroke or 5.9 Cummins. The 6.2 Ford gas engine is super reliable. I’ve got hundreds of thousands of hard miles and no issues on one. EGR destroys your engine. This is why engines in big trucks don’t go the distance like they use to. I’ve been broke down with X15s and Detroits. I won’t have a diesel pickup because I shouldn’t have to spend thousands to delete it so it is “more reliable”. Then they removed all the sulfer from the fuel so you’ve got no lubricity with higher injection pressures. Fleets know you don’t diesel pickup trucks. It’s too expensive to keep them running. Only F-Bois buy them to be noise makers with short boxes so that’s would most dealers have on the lot.
There is a narrow niche for them and they were once upon a time a somewhat decent value and reliability proposition. Nowadays I agree there is little legitimate reason most driveways should have one in them. Horrible idea as an around town grocery getter and haul your butt to work and back rig. Local utility fleets have no reason to run them either because of all the idling. Over the road hotshot haulers, hardcore RV'ers or rodeo circuit types that have a trailer hooked most of the time and pound a lot of interstate miles and want an auxiliary tank, diesel is better.
I agree. I love my 7.3 gasser. It pulls anything I hook it up to with ease. The trucking company I worked for had nothing but problems with the emissions on all the new Kenworth, Peterbuilt and Freightliners.
Have you heard the 7.3 gas from Ford has problems with oil and the ECU ISSUE.. I was wondering if anyone else has heard of any problem .
@jrpriller i have heard of the oil and lifter issues on the mainly the commercial ones. From what I have heard its not as common as people are making it out to be. I am at about 44000 and nothing metalic in my oil yet.
For the fuel system. The problem with high pressure fuel system and sulfur is the sulfur builds up on the tip of the injectors and causes the tip to heat up and melt. Me personally I rather have a diesel then gas in a large pickup do to my experience it lasts longer. Gas motors only last so long getting beat on everyday. Most problems I see in diesel engines is caused by lack of maintenance and taking care of the engine. You can beat on a diesel engine but if you don’t maintain it it’s will die. Top three things I see is not changing fuel water separator causing water to contaminate the system. Lack of oil changes people like to change the oil at 10,000 miles it should be 5,000, and lastly not letting it run a regen and finish. Seen plenty of this engine hit 10,000 engine hours without any issues if you maintain them. Also have people put def in the fuel tank I have rain into that so many times.
Amigos ! The SCR Catalytic Selc System is already in all VW, Audi, BMW, Mercedes, since 2016 available, as Euro 6d and since 2022 , Euro 6e for Diesels.
The EU Commission is as crazy as the Calif bureacrats !
Keep on Dieseling, friends.......our 3 liter 4x4 Merc GLE, 2021, with 330 HP and 700 Nm uses in mountaineous roads, highways some 7 to 8 l/100 km..!
Biggest difference on the Commercial engine side of things regarding HP, is that the 9 & 10L engines are governed to only 1900-2200 RPM depending on use/power selection. The 15L is governed down to 1700 rpm. Even the commercial 6.7 is only running up to 2600.
My x15 isn't governed down to 1700 rpms mine is governed at 2100 rpms it's all in the computer and who set the ECM settings
It depends on which X15 and which ECM setting you have. Both 1700 RPM and 2100 RPM are possible settings. You don't make any more horsepower past 1500, and sometimes not past 1400 RPM depending on the calibration. As long you have close enough spacing in the gearing, you can stay at make HP all the time.
i mean the major issue is goverment overreach, we all know deleted trucks run better.
Thank you guys. Interesting update. Our Isuzu Elf 3 tonne work tipper has a straightforward burn off setup i.e., not DEF; but if we are using the truck intermittently and for short runs only, it can require a manual burnoff initiated by a mechanic at our regular garage. The proposed electric-powered system would theoretically be, as Andrey has said, more reliable. Cheers from NZ🇳🇿.
I keep hearing that torque is king but that's not exactly true, duty cycle in my opinion is just as important or even more important. 6.7 powerstroke is a good example on a pickup it does well it doesn't see the load like it would see in f550-f750. I see a lot of engines catastrophically fail in f550 in as little as 30k miles because it just can't handle constant load factor in this application and that's where you need an engine with larger displacement and structurally heavier engine.
I would say the opposite is true the 6.7 does well with a load but not very well idling 8 hours everyday.
Why would you want idle for 8 hours?
@@milstar71service trucks running a pto to operate the crane/air compressors.
You can run a semi engine at near or at full throttle all day long if you wanted to. Certainly can't do that with a pickup engine.
Downsizing usually involves adding turbos to an engine. Not only do diesels already have turbos but due to the class leading power war these engines are probably already reliably maxed out. Increasing displacement seems like a logical choice to boost power now and down the road when GM or Ford boost their power.
New DPF system?
The more they over take the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the drain
Just another over complicated thing to cost business owners thousands when it breaks, that's all that is.
My 7.3. Has had 250 on it for the last 10 years but I still put around town in it with no oil leaks or problems in years
What they need to do
Is strip away EPA from making fuel economy standards period and have them regulated everything else. And regulate not try to make laws offer their suggestions to congress like they are suppose to and then they can vote on it the way it’s suppose to operate. But have a separate board for vehicles. And that follows consumer demand.
@@jeromep3182 just end the EPA, it’s not helping anyone
If the new DPF doesn't eliminate the EGR, it's pointless, save the sales pitch. The EGR is what kills engines. The SCR/DPF systems are expensive and take maintenance, by they are not the problem.
@@stuartmeier240 egr isn’t so bad in gas engines, but it is Kryptonite to diesels. I will never own one of these
The biggest issue with a gasoline powered class 8 truck will be a need for increased fuel capacity and having a difficulty filling up. Not many truck stops have gasoline pumps that you can easily get to
No more post injection event to heat the DPF will be a big improvement!
I would expect a 7th injector in the exhaust rather than relying solely on the electric heater. Also, I'm pretty sure those use a 48v electrical system to support the current required for the heater. I wonder if Ram/Cummins would go to a primarily 48v architecture or keep it primarily 12v and only use the 48v for the emissions. EPA rule requires significant reductions for Nox at idle and low load, I believe that's where the electrically heated dpf/scr is coming into play.
They never got on board with the separate DPF injector like Duramax and eventually Ford did. I don't know about their larger commercial engines. It's a good way to cook the back cylinder and turbocharger doing it the post injection and is not good for the engine's longevity.
Only in America are the epa regs crazy. Which only apply to citizens vehicles not the government vehicles
Not government vehicles, military vehicles exempt.
This is whole different set of circumstances.
The 2013 Thomas C2 school bus that I drive, with the 6.7 Cummins is rated at 240 hp @ 2400 rpm, it does maintain speed decently well with every seat filled pulling hills at full throttle, but it would be nice to not have to do that to stay at speed
Most buses including thomas have transmission control modules set at 5th gear (6th gear lockout) below redline at 65-69mph, in addition to engine rpm limiters to 2450-2650 rpm
My 2024 Ram 5500 is rated at 360 hp and 800 ft lbs torque with a 6 speed Aisin as69rc transmission. The Ram is used as a wrecker (it has a Chevron Renegade 408 T/A autoloader built on the chassis) and it’ll pull a ton of weight no problem and its speed is electronically governed at 87 mph. It comes down to what the engine is used for and how it’s programmed. The school buses and other chassis like our International flatbeds have the lower output Cummins 6.7’s but they do offer higher output options if you want it in those chassis. I could understand why they put the lower rated ones in a school bus they don’t need to go very fast and the school districts want good fuel economy. The lower output motors we have in a couple of our flatbeds are slow but they get decent fuel mileage for the size of the truck. We do have a few with a higher output as well. If you get into the consumer market (Ram 3500) they have the HO 6.7’s rated at a much higher output but the ones used in commercial vehicles are made to last a long time and be reliable. If they threw the HO engines in a commercial vehicle that’s pulling heavy loads constantly everyday they would not last nearly as long and they would drink fuel like crazy. That’s the biggest issue with the HO versions that people complain about is the fuel mileage and that’s why some people opt for the lower output Cummins engine. When it comes down to the commercial market what matters is fuel economy and long term reliability.
Can’t forget that Kilowatts of electric heat comes at a cost and will take a noticeable amount of HP from the engine to turn a generator. If you compare a gallon of diesel burned in an engine preheater or cab heater to using that same gallon of diesel to run a combustion engine to convert that energy from mechanical to electrical then to heat I’m not so sure you will see a gain in efficiency. I’d like to see it in action though. Time to heat the process in the after treatment might be a gain yes and at least the generator will add load to the engine during warm up on cold starts and get everything warm quicker.
This is kind of like charging an EV from a grid that was generated from coal or burning fossil fuel and saying you are saving the world.
From my understanding they have been using this in Europe for a few years now. Don’t quote me, as the bookmark I had for this electric dpf got erased after my last IOS upgrade 🤨… Also all they have to do is run dual alternators in each truck, yes more parasitic loss but your not burning Gallons of diesel to clean the BS emissions crap….
I went out and bought a Godzilla and love it!! When I was looking for a new diesel, Idrove the Tremor. It had great power. When I opened the hood, all I could see was the EPA. I could not even see the motor. I had in the past a 7.3 and a bulletproofed 6.0. Both were awesome and reliable. The way that both were set up, they would throw you against the back of the seat. The only downside of the Godzilla is fuel economy when towing. The EPA ruined diesel reliability forever. From now on, its gassers for me.
I would rather see Ram putting in a better transmission
Extreme combustion heat causes NOx, so yes, sometimes larger displacement at the same power as somewhat smaller displacement results in cleaner combustion. Fuel efficiency would be lower everything else equal, but emissions are what's hurting modern diesels far more than incremental fuel economy improvements.
Class 2 and 3 trucks don't need higher power output in their diesels at this point -- they need more affordable service and maintenance costs. Anyone needing to tow more than 35,000 lbs. should really be looking at class 5-7 trucks, even if there's a small regression on power output as weight, frame strength and rigidity, and wider track are more crucial at this point.
I talked to a kw dealer and he thinks it’s going to be a nightmare! He said we are already having enough electrical problems and don’t need to add any electrical to it!
Related to the heavy duty market, I can confirm that the industry I work in is phasing out the B6.7 and will be transferring to the X10 for Diesel and CNG. Note with that massive and expensive new SCR/DPF comes a massive electric heater which requires its own alternator... Will it actually be more efficient if it consumes more power to keep it clean? We will find out...
The heaters for the exhaust take MASSIVE current! U cant have 2in diameter cables... so it has to be 48 or higher volts. Which is new for all the vehicles. Boom added more cost and risk.
Yes Andre, we like more displacement if it means less stressed, more efficient and more power. Your source seems to be making their rounds because the rumor of a 7.2L Cummins for the new Ram is coming from more and more places. Reasoning.. because of epa the engines have to produce more power to be further choked for more power.
Bring on the 7.2 diesel!
U guys miss the fact the electricity to heat the exhaust has to come from somewhere! So now u add batteries that are insanely heavy. Less payload, etc.
FYI look into International’s new S13 engine. Looks to be a game changer. A semi engine that looks and acts like a semi engine without the fluff!
I wish scania technology or something that is analogous to it makes its way to American diesel engines where they can achieve very low emissions and don’t need DPFs
HD pickups should have naturally aspirated 13 liter engines, no turbos, no def, for longevity, but the diesel companies need to relearn metallurgy. New diesel engines in trucks seem to need about 15,000 dollars of work every 50,000 miles because they are forcefed then choked at the other end.
Presenters excited but all I hear is more complicated system, and consequently less reliability and longevity.
Cummins engines these days are poor. They got a good name from the n14, 3.9, and 5.9, but the 2019+ cummins engines in the rams are very poor quality. I still have a 98 dodge with the 5.9, and the thing is bulletproof.
If it costs too much to run a business in Commiefornia I'd make preparations to move my business elsewhere.
Those evil bastards wanting clean air for their people. Unless you have a coal burning furnace inside your house maybe shut the hell up.
Except for all that lovey air you can breathe, but not see, comrade....
@@jamesonpace726 LA and SF have horrible air. From the smog to the smell of the street people, the air is nasty.
@@AkioWasRightnot sure what the smell of people have to do with this topic, but sounds like if smog is an issue that steps are taken to continue combatting that.
@@AkioWasRightsounds like emissions matter then. Diesels should be scrubbed.
Scannia engines don’t have a need for DPF/DEF systems because they are efficient and meet regulations without it…. If only in America we could get those engines or get rid of the dpf system 😢
And the EGR will still be dumping exhaust into the intake. I just bought a 24 F350 7.3 and will be dumping my Ram 6.7 at the auction. DONE WITH DIESEL AND RAM!!!! Trans slipping and engine ticking, just replaced DPF, SCR, and EGR cooler. $7200!!!!
In the mid 90s california and cummins was working with freezing natural gas to aliquid for 24 hours then it returns back to a gas vapor form
How long til you need some kind of (expensive) permit to buy a heavy duty truck? Proof of need or some such… it’s coming.
The business we park our semi trucks at has a 6.7 Cummins GAS in one of their delivery trucks.
If there is an EGR system, or a crank case filter, it is not “cleaning the engine“. It is cleaning the DPF; the engine will still suffer with the other systems, no? 🤔
I didn't vote for the EPA GANG, did you?........
Your representatives did unfortunately
This has been a dream solution for catalysts for a decades.
Can we suppose that high output lithium batteries are making this a reality on cold starts
Any heavy-duty pickup with more than 385 hp, 850 lb*ft of torque is just for bragging rights. The EPA has ruined diesel engines for operating economy with their ridiculous NOx and particulate regulations. The required systems have increased initial cost, increased maintenance costs, and hurt fuel economy. Diesel engines have become uneconomical to operate, which is why Cummins is developing a heavy-duty gasoline engine. The fuel and emissions systems will be much less expensive than modern diesels with the alphabet soup of aftertreatment systems.
How about that
Reducing efficiency leading to a greater carbon footprint
Plus all the wasted resources transporting DEF to pumps and stores, and landfill waste as well
What about the soot washed out of the DPF. It ends up back in the environment, all at once rather than slowly.
Government solutions often create many more problems than it solves
Daaaaamn 😮😮😮😮 a 7.2L!!! 0:30
Unless the medium duty market wants a bit more engine in their trucks would be the only way i see a 7.2. but if they do bring it the V8 competition is going to be struggling to make the ratings
7.2 Cummins would be a Monster 💪🏻💪🏻👍🏻🇺🇸
Straight six diesel is most efficient engine but i know truck drivers who like Scania V8 not only have power up hill but have weight in right place to pull trailers.
Cummins with gasoline straight six will good for Australians with Ford sixes get hard to get. Interesting if Cummins has revised 5.0lt V8 diesel that was in Nissan Titan?
A gas turbine is the most efficient engine.
If they are boring it out to 7.2 I would be even further concerned about blown head gaskets and cavitation. 5.9's rarely had HG issues but 6.7's can if you push them a little bit.
Is the 6.7L a new design block from the 5.9L? Or, is the 6.7L a bored out 5.9L? I would think that if the 6.7L was a new design, it could possibly be bored out to 7.2L. I doubt they would bore out a 5.9L block to 7.2L and expect it to last even through the warranty period.
That was mainly due to the vgt turbos that produce higher drive pressure
Just dropping this here - Edison Motors.
I’m ready for a 7.2 paired with the new ZF commercial 8 speed! Bring it on Ram HD
4:30 cool gears on the desk
Meanwhile my 5.9 has 480,000 miles, gets 18-19 mpgs and hasn't had a single problem. I challenge any emissions truck to beat that
I don't see the 6.7l being phased out. I see the 7.2L being a additional diesel option to choose from.
With the Chevron ruling, hopefully the EPA will be put back under their rock & the automotive industry can get back to making great engines w/o all of the strangle hold emissions nonsense on them.
If you think EPA is a waste, then you should live in China for a month with their pollution filled air. Maybe it will change your mind, especially when you consider this Earth is not just for now, but for tomorrow for future generations. We need to do decent job of taking care of it.
Not to mention, some of us are old enough to remember seeing the air in LA. Didn't always kill us us that fast, sometimes it just made us very sick....
Not a fan of heavy handed government, but you’re the kind of person who throws away their children’s future for your temporary personal enjoyment. Clean air and water are more important to me than some V8 engine.
@@jackprick9797 Part of the reason China is so dirty and powerful is because industry we send them cannot comply with emissions regulations we created for ourselves.
Every comment here trying to defend the EPA is just illustrating the problem. Were not in f-ing china and 99% of us aren't in LA. Actions and requirements needed in those places are not needed in Dillon Montana or Bainbridge Ohio, but because the EPA is a one-size fits all tyranny, everyone suffers. Big government solutions ALWAYS create more problems than they fix and they ALWAYS suit the needs of special interests rather than the average American citizen.
If it takes 35% more fuel to go from A to B , is it realy cleaner.
Cummins anounced their plans more than 2 years ago. I read all about this
I’m interested to see where GM takes their baby duramax, it may be my favorite engine so far. Only have 8k miles so time will tell but 25-35mpg is hard to beat.
The 6.7l is maxed out in size because of the camshaft in the block!!!! So if/when they go to overhead cams then the block could support larger pistons to increase displacement.... ask me how i know...
Mmmm..How do you know?
engine downsizing works in consumer half tons when trucks are unladen and power is not needed. But it will always take (X) horsepower to move any amount of weight at a given speed. And horsepower can be directly linked to fuel burn. shaving 100 pounds out of an engine bay is the biggest benefit to the ecoboost.
Why doesn't every engine come red? This is against the ISO rules. Red = Cummins, Yellow = CAT, Orange = HEMI, Grey=Chevy and Cracked Blocks = FORD
I still haven't adjusted to Cummins change from red to blue. It really messed things up because Valvoline had the Premium Blue diesel oil that they developed with Cummins.
Been driving Fords for decades, for personal and business, never seen a cracked block ever.
I'm still waiting to hear about any updates on the 6.4 hemi
Will USA have more diesel on regular car or SUV? I love diesel and I miss my VW diesel
And the X10 is at 1650 torque at likely 1200 RPM or even less. That’s the biggest difference.
THE 7.2 LITRE engine sounds like an Engine that Daimler Trucks and Cummins are rumoured to be developing Jointly !
To replace the Daimler (Mercedes) Oelmotor OM926~OM936 diesel.
Kind of funny how the pdf actually puts more pollutants into the air than not having one
Yay can’t wait to delete all that stuff off of it!
Speed of Air pistons are the answer!!!!
This!!! I'm so happy someone other than me is saying this here!
The other day I experienced a DEF level sensor failure. Put my FreightLiner in DERATE. Even though the DEF was dosing and SCR was working. That’s a BS perimeter.
Maybe Cummins should fix the pickup engines that they have now and having a lot of problems with.
They're so obsessed with better burning cleaner engines, but that's not what consumers want, they just want reliability and affordability. Companies don't stay in business because of cleaner engines, they stay in business with reliable and affordable engines and the EPA is hurting the average American who can't afford the ridiculous emissions requirements. Can you imagine if the EPA puts Cummins out of business one day because of emissions and what horrible consequences that would have on America's economy??
Maybe ram shod update the cab and short bed size to compete with Ford and GM. Just a thought
Have you looked into Scania engines yet? They're here and being tested to meet NA standards.
NA gas engine are much lower in torque compared to TD. MAnufacturers need to make a 6 to 8 liter gas engine with 5'5k redline and low boost turbo to increase the torque significantly yet keeping fuel mileage and maintenance low.
The EPA needs to be sued. Chevron Deference has been overturned, they no longer have the authority to make arbitrary changes to emissions. They are acting outside of the legal system.
Sad to say, but looking forward to seeing the gas Cummins. Diesels cost to much and last half as long, thanks to emissions. I have an 18 ram dually with Cummins and I only drive to work and come home. It's 6 years old and has 32k on it. All my running around is with a half ton gasser.
I run a 2003 Volvo with 5.5L common rail and Allison for "Truck" its cheaper than any Silverado, Ram or ford to run, fix etc and its full airbag snd higher GCM
With Chevron deference struck down by the Supreme Court, manufacturers SHOULD sue to get this crap off the books
Great more emission crap to fail and costs a fortune to fix. Ugh! 🤦♂🤷♂
How is the EPA still able to enforce current and make new laws if chevron deference was overturned?! 🙄
Sadly the day they release the 7.2 the power stroke and Duramax will probably be uprated to a higher power level and still beat it
Awesome. Another truck no one can afford, with a crazy expensive after treatment system. These manufacturers and especially the EPA can suck it.