Bob Katz is a great pal and has mastered at least 12 of my CDs and as you say, he’s brilliant. He supports the music,sometimes his touch is very subtle. Love that guy.
“The speakers play the room” best line ever. I think this phrase will be repeated over and over! This is the audio version of I think therefore I am. Love it Steve!
With all we have heard and learned from Steve and his fellow audiophile youtubers, we still continue to pursue the "perfect reproduction" of music we love. I guess it is human nature to pursue perfection which in our case is music listening nirvana. Music as mastered by the studio engineers can only be truly "heard" using headphones and yet we prefer the room colored result coming out of speakers. There is something missing if our music doesn't come with soundstage and depth. Lucky are those who find and accept that there is no perfect music reproduction, only happy listening to music the way we got used to. Thank you Steve for keeping our feet grounded on common sense and reality.
We've hung up nice looking crochet and patchwork quilts on our walls. Made quite a positive difference particularly the ones either side of the speakers (Kef R7)
Great video Steve, learnt lots and it’s settled my mind, the way my Lounge is virtually impossible to do anything with it’s shape other than sitting closer to the speakers.
I have been using Lyngdorf's room correction RoomPerfect for a couple of years now using the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 integrated. It has improved both the tonality and the sound stage resulting in a much more enjoyable listening experience. I can't imagine going back to no room correction.
have you tried the Lyngdorf "Room perfect" system? They have spend a fortune getting this to work and be simple to employ and whilst its never going to be absolutely perfect its pretty damned good and is specifically designed with subwoofer integration in mind. Ive been using it for a long time and will never go back
I tend to look at rooms as part of the loudspeakers. I also have an outdoor system and it's amazing how much the freedom from reflections helps produce a crazy accurate image. I don't have any issues with bass or smallness because I don't use wimpy overly small audiophile designs.
Hi Steve. Back in 1983 i was able to have a separate room built onto the rear of my house to listen to music. Back then there was not much information about room treatment for acoustics. The room is rectangular about 26 x 15 feet with a single door entrance. There are 2 windows in the room covered with thick curtains. The entire floor has thick carpet. The sound at that time was very lively with too much reflection. So, i decided to keep adding thick curtain around the room. These curtain panels can open to expose more bare wall if necessary. The only two surfaces of the room that are not treated are the ceiling and the rear wall behind my listening chair. I am able to sit about 20 feet from the speakers which are 10 feet apart because i hear the direct sound first. Also, i can hear the reverberation that was recorded with the instruments which gives a huge 3 dimensional sound stage, particularly with cross-talk cancellation.
A good basic requirement for room treatment (for me) is getting live speech to sound warm & natural. No slap echo or ringing that is common in many US homes! 🎶🤫🎶
Happy 5 year Anniversary! Lots of free advise from this video and channel. I wonder how many of us listen to their favorite tune on a good set of headphones? If not they could be missing some detail. I sometimes will eliminate the room as much as possible by moving closer to my floor standing speakers and turning them in, on much lower volume of course. I also have The Ultimate Sound Demonstration Disc from Chesky Records - Guide to Critical Listening from 1995, I can remember hearing more high end back then, now not so much as I age.
My home office has a bad bass node. I wanted a streamer so replaced my Musical Fidelity integrated with the Lyngdorf tdai 1120 with Room Perfect. It made a very noticeable improvement.
Thats why I have line arrays for the stereo system to vastly reduce room influences. Love the old 550 Nakamichi portable Cassette. Used mine using KM-86 mics to make live steam recordings way back when.
Steve, I am really surprised you didn’t mention, and/or try Lyngdorf’s Room Perfect. Room Perfect is the most significant improvement to my audio system, by far! I would highly recommend that you test a Lyngdorf TDAI1120 or TDAI3400 as soon as possible.
A few weeks ago I moved my coffee table off to the side. Now I get 99% direct sound au-go-go!!! And psychologically it feels nicer to have the open space. 🤘👂
Hi Steve I live offGrid n a canvas tent ⛺️ ,while I build small cabin’s for my audio equipment,it’s so great for acoustics as the sound travels thou the many layers ,N so is reflection free .I will take sum photos soon ,as it would be my coolest thing to have a viewers system of any day . You rock Steve like my vintage Rel’s
Steve, thinking your Cornwalls in a small, old country church would be awesome. I was able to put in a sound insulated 2x6 wall a bit over an inch from the basement wall that is 4 inches of foam/8 inches of concrete/4 inches of foam/ 100 feet of dirt. The interior wall is then isolated from the interior wall. Wooden ceiling. Just like a recording studio. Still want some more, but sounds pretty good.
I use carpet & area rugs in n between LP and speakers. I use a tall bookshelf set behind LP as a diffuser. That w/proper speaker placement works well enough for me.
I haven’t tried it personally but I’ve heard that a pair of Klipsch La Scalas outdoors sound anything but wimpy. In regard to room treatment, the 2’x4’ 3” thick Rockwool filled absorption panels I put on at midrange/tweeter horn level on either side of the Klipschorns I used to own made an incredible difference in clarity and imaging. I’m pretty sure that adding absorption at early reflection surfaces would help any speaker.
Thanks Steve! But I am going to have to beat a dead horse here. Just a few well placed absorption panels at the first reflection points will help a great deal. Especially with sound stage and imaging. Everyone should try it for themselves of course. I did some diy panels some years back and it really does work wonders
Rooms can be weird. In my setup I have the speakers in one end of the room on a short wall and 3 to 3-1/2 ft away from that end wall. The equipment is on a very heavy record cabinet (34" tall) on side wall. I was getting some glare that i thought was a first reflection problem but nothing I did solved it. To make the equipment more usable I swapped the position of my turntable with the stack of gear (preamp, DAC and CD Transport) and the problem went away. The sound must have been bouncing off the TT cover.. and swapping the positions blocked the path to that TT cover.
I have been going around youtube recently commenting on the room simply being another component due as much care in selection and "treatment" as the others. One can help by first accumulating a system with some synergy. Unbeknownst to me at the time, building Dynaco amps and preamps 48 years ago was a great start when combined with their speakers (and later small and large Advents) and a Dual (later a Technics) turntable. They could rock any room despite my penchant for hanging speakers from the ceiling at the corner of the room and above my sitting head.🙃 As much as I want new equipment (no changes for 20+ years except selling Kornerhorns (when I sold the house with the dedicated room) I modified and replacing with VMPS speakers I already owned), this current little system is very happy together. It could use better speakers but there is an embarrassment of riches on the used market these days (a lot of pandemic purchases now gathering dust) that may just be a fool"s temptation for my unusual but sounding pretty darn good little rental room. So I'm watching and reading and thinking because actually hearing 95% of them is impossible. Not to mention hearing them in my room. We should all get to be reviewers for a year, just like we should all get to live on the California coast for 6 months on a rotating basis....I got mine in before the drought and fires but did get to feel a few shakers. Sitting distance from the speakers is also critical as you mention, but too close will kill imaging, too far I have never experienced but I would guess same. Magnepan will tell you to buy the most speaker you can afford regardless of room size and I have no experience personally other than woofers and tweeters, where the same definitely does not hold true. So much as Bose gets the criticism in the high end world their advertising and design concept of accurately combining direct and reflected sound is what a proper room (and a live concert) is all about. I didn't own any (ok the 901's for 2 weeks) but heard all of their models and got schooled in Classical music by a great college roommate with the 501's and a Thorens turntable. "Plays well with others" is not just a compliment for kids.
Are there any company's that make acoustic flat screen tv covers as there is no way to change my speaker position and one speaker is very close to the tv which has to be on a side wall must be causing havoc with my sound
I do not have a dedicated music room. When I want to get into "serious" listening, I hang moving mats on grommets in my living room. Not pretty but what a major difference in sound.
Steve, thank you for your YT content, always entertaining....I'm fortunate enough to master in 2 high achieving studios here in Hastings,UK... Completely different room designs and equipment (e.g.PMC v ATC monitors). When I cross-reference my masters I very rarely hear anything I would have mastered differently in the other studio. I trust both equally, although the sonic signature of both studios is completely different. Question, does your friend Bob Katz have a preference in which of his rooms he works and why?
I imagine some pots with synthetic plants or bamboo canes. The plants act as a diffuser and the pot, instead of being filled with substrate and fertilizer, can be filled with acoustic material, forming a bass trap or a resonator if a membrane is installed in the pot. I imagine a ceiling lamp and a floor lamp and some lamps to hang on the walls that have the shape of a diffuser. I imagine a sofa and some armchairs that are stuffed with acoustic material and that act as huge bass traps. I imagine a cabinet for storage that has a membrane resonator located in the part that hits the wall. This would help reconcile family and couple life with audiophilia.
You are great, but this video is one of your better ones. All relative the lot are, and after all there is no such thing as perfect, only continuous improvement. Once one accepts that, the easier this path is to navigate.
I by know means am an expert Audiophile by any means. I am certain 98% of speakers sound better when your closer. In my room an set-up, I find I am about 2/3rds of the room away, from them to get the perfect balance of sound quality/soundstage from my Vintage Sansui’s. Ive found it odd but it seems my placement, about 8ft apart 2ft off the wall, toed in to shoulders, and being about 16ft away gives me ideal sound quality ,and enormous sound stage from an 8” 2-way. No Sub in the mix. Tube EL34 amp. I can’t wait to grab a modern set of speakers to see what new experiences Ill have. Harbeth, Audio Note, Zu Audio, Tekton, Wharfedale. Only just began the Audiophile Journey a year ago, enjoying music again.
Welcome, trust your ears. Everyone’s room is different, Different electronics, music genre, how loud or quietly we listen. The only thing that matters is enjoying the music.
A silly comment....I have seen the shirt your wearing many times in your videos and this one is my fave. Reminds me of the Life magazine cover at the end of the 60's. That and any shirt with Edvard Munch "the Scream" as well as Alfred E. Newman, Parlament and Joy division and the Ramones must be alright!
Before investigating in room treatment, sometimes it could be your own listening seat that is the problem? I had a leather sofa bed which I gave to a friend & today got an immaculate 2nd hand 2 woven material 2 seater sofa with a high back ( I wanted this for long term listening ) Some treble energy has gone , however there is no ringing in my room and the middle image is solid & rich. Currently listening to Black Sabbath Paranoid lp & I feel almost like the bong is handed to me 🤣🤣🤣
treatment is ALWAYS neccessary to get an even and good playback & freq response. Its basic of high end audio reproduction. With moving your seat in a untreated room you just change one room mode to another…. simply physics and how sound waves travels through a room
there are no problem to make a few tube traps for corners and points of first reflections and move the speakers away from rear wall by 1 meter i did it a month ago and my joy has no limits this is really cheap and simple path to improve the situation
That’s fantastic. But do you try and experiment and take the tube traps out of the corners and put them along the middle of the wall. I’ve been hearing corners aren’t the problem for bass. Just try it.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac unfortunately my corner traps too big to move (h2.7m and D0.6m) that's why they stand in the corners behind the speakers and subs but it was funny time when I was moving my four little traps around the room and taking measurements now I have found a good balance beetwen their efficiency and livingroom ergonomics it looks like from -12.5db to -6.5db on 50Hz and from +12db to +5db on 70Hz I think it is a good result, at least I enjoy to music (holographic stage and dry punchy bass) with more pleasure than before especially Meiko - Playing Favorites You know what I mean 😉🙏
The room is a filter. The room's transfer function imparts excessive decay times in the LF. Sidewall first reflection points are an issue, but certainly not the challenge that LF energy presents. After decades of pursuing all things acoustics, both professionally and as an enthusiast, I've come full circle in hierarchy of importance of what to address in which order. Just like electronic distortions, there's acoustic distortions of the room. SBIR, modal resonances, both examples of acoustic distortions. - With proper L-to-R symmetry, establish an optimal distance off the front wall, minimizing destructive boundary nulling SBIR. With every room/speaker combo, there exists ideal spacing off the front wall... find it. Either flush mount your mains, or manage the distance. Managing the distance can include both spacing and absorption. Stripping away the destructive comb filtering sounds better... it elevates punch and increases clarity. That's first; L-to-R symmetry, properly spaced off the front wall. Next; All the bass trapping you can possibly employ, faced with diffusion/scattering... as to not overly damp the upper freqs. If using porous absorption, if need be you can face the trapping with 4mil, 6mil Visqueen to limit the range of absorption. That's it, those two acoustic strategies; - L-to-R symmetry w/proper front boundary execution. - Bass trapping w/diffusion. Yes, sidewall energy should be addressed, all other best practices are a given, ie., diffraction and very early reflections, provide for a clean wavelaunch ie., don't place the gear rack to be significant acoustically, and speaker location relative to listening position. Use parametric EQ to pull down what resonances remain. - The room's dimensions determine the resonances/modes. - Speaker location determines which modes are excited. - Listener position determines which modes are heard. Excessive LF decay, is a big deal ... vastly more problematic than sidewall reflections. Essentially, an entire room bass trapped, all covered in diffusion. So much more to add... gotta stop somewhere:( (diy room treatment is the single most impactful bang for the buck endeavor) What's the single greatest Rock song ever? (I heard Lex Fridman asked a guest that this morning) Lex said Stairway...
@@robertwoodward9231 Folk song? I mean Aretha's "Respect" is an all time great, but it's not a Rock track. Myself, I'm not sure what I'd guess is the greatest... perhaps not my favorite, but the greatest Rock song. Stones' "Satisfaction" was a benchmark. Beatles' "Day in a Life" changed everything. I thought their brief discussion on the Podcast ... the intent was Rock specifically, not like greatest song ever of any genre. Dylan's work is unparalleled. One of my desert island full albums is a Dylan release... likely one others wouldn't pick!
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I discovered the joy of “nearphones” as I call near field listening back in the 1970s. It _can_ make even quite mediocre speakers sound pretty good. Ideal distance varies, but no more than a metre for most in my experience. Also discovered that the more you complicate things, like overly complex crossovers, the more confused the sound.
Digging the goatee! Wish I could grow, I can't get past the itch! Hey, thanks for sharing the diffusers, the name, and the company. I was always curious. Please cover: placement of wide dispersion vs. narrow dispersion speakers, specifically what wall to place them, wide dispersion Best along the long wall? narrow Best along the short wall? Maybe it doesn't matter given all the tech out there in room corrections like Direc, treatments, DSP sound expansion, getting closer to the speakers, and more stuff in the room, etc. Stay well Steve.
That’s not a goatee.. A goatee is a small pointy beard on the chin not under the lips👍 This is the definition of what Steve has…It’s called a Mouche , Soul Patch, Jazz Dot and a few other names and was worn mostly by African American Jazzmen✅ Enjoy The Knowledge…Best2You..
@@meutubedou Ah, right, Mouche, or the Frank Zappa look. LOL. Eh, I could never get past the itching phase of growing facial hair. But thanks for the education! Peace to you too.
@@markd4292 , Yes, Zappa❤️ Just played the 1978 Live Chicago concert last night.. Absolutely superb musicianship… He’s always been one of the Artists I use to test new gear or impress newbies.. Especially the Double Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation CD👍 Anything Van Morrison , Bob Dylan’s “Slow Tain Coming” and anything Steely Dan too.. On my channel I show a variety of speakers & Amps with music demo’s., Being 68 I’ve been thru lots of gear.. Thanks for the follow up comment.. Have a great one🤗 Enjoy The Music
FYI the correct (English) term for that lower lip hair is an "Imperial", named after early Chinese Emperors, who were the only people allowed that style of growth. Anyone else found growing one was put to death! 😮
@@iancoulson8171 Bullshit.. It wasn’t until the 1940’s that they started appearing & really “took off” in the 50’s - the 60”s Jazz period that anyone even worn one especially the Chinese.. Then it disappeared awhile to show again in the late 90’s.. You better look thru some Chinese His/Story photo’s Copy/Paste…”If fact, when it first made a showing on the face of jazz legend Dizzy Gillespie, it didn't even have the same name. Gillespie referred to it, instead, as his "jazz dab" (and others called it the the "Dizzy Gillespie beard"). And at the time-that is, the late '40s-it was considered pretty cool.”Dizzy Gillespie, inventor of the jazz dab. John Birks “Dizzy” Gillespie was born in 1917, which was perfect timing to popularize the jazz dab in the 40s and 50s. Though he occasionally wore his proto soul-patch with a mustache, when he wore it by itself, it became a distinctive trademark. Since then, the soul patch has co-opted by everyone from beatniks and The Blues Brothers to '90s grunge dudes and modern bros. (Even Garth Brooks wore one in his ill-advised stint as alter-ego Chris Gaines.) And along the way, the style has slipped further and further in the public's estimation, eventually becoming the symbol of general doofishness it's recognized as today. Now go away you uneducated Troll…
Hi Steve, I've recently read an article about NWAA sound lab on Stereophile site and people from that company have original and different approach towards diffusion for rooms. It would be very intresting for us- your viewers to cover this topic in your own original way.
Back... back... way back in maybe 1973 in Brighton in England we put on John Martyn at Hove Town Hall, a 1400 capacity modern venue. Now unless I am running 2 storied together, we hired John Farlowe, (later) founder of Exposure Audio to do the PA. John arrived with a pair, one pair of Tannoy prototype speakers. Tannoy had made 4 speakers. The other pair can be seen in the movie Performance with Mick Jagger singing and dancing in front of them. They could actually handle being used in a large-ish venue. But maybe not very much else can. You can see glimpses of them in this trailer... th-cam.com/video/wFxfn3LakeM/w-d-xo.html
Hi, I'm Guilhem, the viewer of this "Viewer system of the day" and owner of these little Fostex boxes ! I already saw Yamanaka Syujiro's channel. Great videos and projects, but not so much explainations. In fact I build Fostex Backloaded horn kit for the Fostex FE206E when I was younger, and they rocks ! So fast, clear and rich and with low end/medium to die for, but they are way too big for my flat, so they stayed at my parent's home. The bookshelves ones with the FE103En are better sized for a flat, really good too, but do not have any bass and are sounding way smaller than their big sisters. However, they do not have the "whizzer cone's effect" and are more linear in the high. I'm planning to build new enclosures for them, maybe on the "Solo103" schematics to see if I can have more bass. The BK Electronics sub is great, but it do not go beyond 120Hz, and the Fostex hardly goes this low. Anyway, even if full-range drivers aren't perfect or even realy balanced, they give so much life en pleasure !
@@guilhemvincent2383 Greetings Guilhem! I was just curious since they looked quite similar to his builds. Looking at the frequency response on the FE103En PDF, if you were to design in a ~3dB bump at between 90-100Hz, via box design, you'd better match the Sub. Granted, that'd mean going more for a ported enclosure, like the Solo103, but it is possible. The biggest limitation for that driver is it's Xmax. 0.6 mm means it really is meant for mids and highs. Maybe we'll see an update in the future. It would be very interesting to see where you go on this Audio Journey. And many thanks for the reply. Hope to see you around.
Hi @@TheTrueVoiceOfReason , thank's for the advice ! You're true, the FE103 isn't really a true fullrange driver, but it's going quite low with the right enclosure. In fact, the driver really doesn't move that much at a normal listening level in my flat. Only on really loud bass they are overwhelmed. Maybe a high pass filter could be great to avoid distortions, but this is another story (maybe one day on a full active system) ! The solo103 seems to be a great solution for me. Whatever happens, I'm going to keep them to try tower speakers (Transmission Line or backloaded horn) and see what they can do. If these projects come to be realized, they will be seen on my Instagram!
".....people say rugs don't make that big of a difference." If they say that, there is something wrong with them. Where I come from (the 1950s), people either say "....don't make that much of a difference." or "....don't make that big a difference." One choice, two options, both correct. Great topic, Steve, btw.
It all depends on what you want folks. Do want some room verb? Do you want sonic dead space? I love verb but get that it’s not for everyone. S/N ratio and frequency response is the only thing you really hear, other than nuance. Listen to headphones if you don’t want to hear any of that. Simple.
There is no such thing as perfection. Perfect is also subjective. One man’s idea of perfection is not the same as another’s. I think a cute petite blond, blue eyed female is getting visually close to my concept of perfection. My brother favours a voluptuous brunette. When you acoustically treat a room, you change it’s sonic properties. Whether you consider those changes represent an improvement is surely subject to personal preference! Oh, and for the record, my partner is neither blond or brunette. Neither petite or voluptuous. But I still fully appreciate her virtues and love her for those virtues.
@@MMK___ put together a hifi system capable of reproducing recordings the way you like to hear them, with an off access response that closely mimics the on access response and room treatment becomes a much lower priority. As I exclaimed, room treatment will undoubtedly alter your room’s acoustic property. Whether that altered acoustic state constitutes an improvement, has to come down to personal listening preferences. I prefer a slightly lively room. Others may prefer a flatter response. There is no right or wrong, there is just different. Every action has consequences. Whether those consequences work in your favour is debatable. Enjoy the music!
@@howardskeivys4184 when you want a undefined freq response okey, but for a tight lowend, more details, better imaging, better depth - the one and only way is to treat your room with an good acoustic concept. You cant get resolution & quality when the foundadtion ,the room, isnt capable of. No speaker in the world can solve that. Of course you always can argue with personal preference, but no room treatment concept = no high end sound…
@3:04 its the most important part of the complete setup. But people still prefer to ,,upgrade,, their Amps, Cables or Speakers. The thing is, its not done when you hang on some pre-made panels on the walls. You need Knowledge, learning about Acoustics to get a good Solution (with Diffusion & Absorption) and thats need Time & Money and most wannabe ,,Audiophiles,, are not interested in that or have any excuses why Acoustics are not the main Point in Music Listening
Acoustics, important as they are, are _not_ “the main Point in Music Listening“, the _music_ is. It would seem akin to obsessing over the TV test pattern in the days when that’s what was transmitted by TV broadcasts overnight, rather than program content.
@@jonathansturm4163 You will always hear the Room + Speakers. When your room is not treated it cant sound perfect. Its impossible, its simply physic. And i think we Audio & Music Fans are all searching for a good system and think about how it can sound better. Of course you can listen in a untreated room, but you can also listen in your kitchen, that doesnt mean that its a pleasing experience with acouracy, good timing, clean hearable Transients & Details - that can you only achieve with treatment, no speaker technology or Dsp in the world can fix rooms with a lot of reverb or standing waves. But i think thats a general ,Problem, in this Hobby specially when you read all the Comments under TH-cam videos, People are too focussed on the Gear and the small details like Cables, the Loudspeaker finish or new Amps. Most people dont care and dont even know, its simply way easyier to spend money on the latest dac technology than room treatment wich is the only way to bring your system on a new level of quality
@@vtkz When I was editing and typesetting Paul McGowan’s brilliant biography _99% True_ I was impressed by the number of occasions where he solved setup problems by removing excessive and inappropriate room treatments. My own experiences dating from the early 1970s onward indicate that a light hand, or minimalist approach works best _for me_
@@jonathansturm4163 yea maybe because he like the sound of an untreated room idk ( and i dont listen to hifi ,,experts,, on youtube because all these channels are mostly talking nonsense, do marketing for the same brands over and over again aka Gear for the masses). I personally would never listen in a room where i dont have even minimal room treatment on the first reflection points. It doesnt make sense for me to buy gear for thousands of euros and destroy their quality’s with undefined and muddy sound because room modes, echoes & reverb from the room mess up the sound. Even a 1k system sounds so much better when youve the energy under control they put into the room. Only an overall concept with Roomtreatment (Absorption + Diffusion) + Gear leads to an Perfect, acourate and harmonic Hifi Setup. But most people are only on the Gear Chase and think the new Amplifier or DAC sounds sooo much better than the old one instead of think about some Absorber to keep the Sound Energy under control
@2:25 "But really, that's what they're doing -- is trying to make recordings that sound good to pretty-much everybody." I respectfully disagree. Or, the mastering engineers really are trying to do so, and are incompetent. Why? If a recording sounds amazing on a professionally set-up, high-end stereo, then that recording will sound great on any and every stereo, regardless of price or location. If there is an exception (like a noisy work environment), then that very small exception should not be something that the mastering engineers cater to, because they screw up the recordings when they cater to obscure circumstances. A meal prepared by a top chef will be delicious, no matter where you eat it. Yes, it will taste best on a picturesque tropical island, with a cool ocean breeze for atmosphere. But that top chef meal will also be delicious on a smelly bus. The idea that crummy sounding recordings sound better on crummy stereo systems is absurd. No matter the stereo... When you feed that stereo amazing sounding content, then that stereo will sound its best. If your stereo has lousy tweeters, then the world should not have to suffer with boosted highs to compensate for the minority of speakers with lousy tweeters. Yes, the studios should want to release content that sounds best on the most stereos. They would accomplish that goal, if they made their content sound best on professionally set-up, high-end stereos. Such a stereo is the "lab". If it sounds great there, it will sound great virtually everywhere. I still use the speakers that I purchased with my 1992 Gateway 2000 computer. And the music that sounds best on my very good living-room stereo sounds best on my old computer speakers. I have a 2020 Honda Accord. Its stereo is not good. People that do not know better seem to like it. But it kind of sucks. Yet, my best sounding recordings (the ones that sound best in my living-room), still sound best in my Accord. It almost makes my Accord's stereo listenable. Folks, quality recordings bring out the best in any stereo. So the mastering engineers should stop with the catering to headphones, and elevators, and cars, and laptops, and on and on and on. They are just screwing things up. The mastering engineers should focus on professionally set-up, high-end stereos. When they nail the recording on such a stereo, then that recording will make virtually every other stereo shine.
agreed, and let the mastering engineers make the best possible recording. can not bow down to lowest common denominator, those people do not care anyways.
@@sudd3660 Another analogy that I should have included is: If you have an old, not so good TV. Well, that TV will not look better if you feed it sub-par video content. That crummy, old TV will still look best when being fed a crisp, sharp video feed. I do not know from where the bizarre rumor took roots that, lesser quality content (audio or video), will improve the experience on lesser quality equipment. That defies logic. What's next? An old, badly running car will run better with bad gas? That is why I identify the mastering engineers as incompetent. They live in La La Land, expecting poorer sounding content to sound better on various, less than ideal stereos. They know how to operate their equipment. But that comes from experience. But just as someone that drives the same car for years knows their car's equipment, that does not make them a professional driver. Neither does it make the mastering engineers professionals in their field. They are simply skilled at turning their knobs and pushing their levers. Based on what gets released to the public; based on their actual work product; based on their results, my conclusion is that those engineers are incompetent. Not all of them. There are some amazing sounding songs. But every song should sound amazing. We should not have to be detectives to unearth them.
Acoustics, important as they are, are not “the main Point in Music Listening“, the music is. It would seem akin to obsessing over the TV test pattern in the days when that’s what was transmitted by TV broadcasts overnight, rather than program content.
no youre wrong. they are the main point. No Acoustic Concept = No Energy Control you put in the room = def no high end sound and poor performance. The music and gear can be good as it can, when you cant control the energy you put into the room (what treatment is at the end, energy control) you only get an muddy poor performance. There are no ,,wonder speaker,, who can tricks out your room modes. Even Cardiod system cant do that
To be an audiophile one needs these attributes: They must be gullible, they should be naive and it helps to have a lot of excess cash or access to credit. Limited hearing ability through age as most audiophiles do is also a plus. One should above all be a science denier. If one does not have these special abilities don’t fret as you can just enjoy the music, it’s a lot less stressful.🤡
NOPE & if your gear is not anchored into the concrete foundation of your house you have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR MISSING. Total isolation for turntables and removing resonant frequencies. I did a video to the extraordinary lengths I went to writhing my budget including taking room design from speaker enclosure design. How does sound? WHAT?
EVERY room needs well plannend treatment. As more Money you put in an acoustic concept, as clearer gets the Playback. Thats why you logical need to spend the money first in room acoustics and than into the gear. But Audiofools spend mostly 0,- in Acoustics and want to tell you how crisp and tight everything sounds, its laughable. No Room Acoustics = no details = def not 100% performance, not even 50%. Also room correction dont do wonders when you dont treat your room. And when you talk about subwoofers for me youve no ideas how well setup Speaker + Sub + Acoustics sound. Sometimes its better dont to talk when you locked in your hifi bubble. Every Active - Subwoofer - Treated Room Setups knocks EVERY, realy EVERY ,,Audiophile,, untreated Floorstander / Bookshelf system out of the park in terms of everything (details, imaging, bass quality, depth etc). But most people are too dumb & blind to let new things in their life and never tried other ways, just listen to wannabe hifi experts on youtube and buy their passive klipsch, magnepan, buchardt whatever marketing stuff and think they have an high end system. What a man does not know, he cannot miss
Bob Katz is a great pal and has mastered at least 12 of my CDs and as you say, he’s brilliant. He supports the music,sometimes his touch is very subtle. Love that guy.
“The speakers play the room” best line ever. I think this phrase will be repeated over and over! This is the audio version of I think therefore I am. Love it Steve!
Also, a rug will really tie the room together!
Let’s go bowling Dude!
🤭
With all we have heard and learned from Steve and his fellow audiophile youtubers, we still continue to pursue the "perfect reproduction" of music we love. I guess it is human nature to pursue perfection which in our case is music listening nirvana. Music as mastered by the studio engineers can only be truly "heard" using headphones and yet we prefer the room colored result coming out of speakers. There is something missing if our music doesn't come with soundstage and depth. Lucky are those who find and accept that there is no perfect music reproduction, only happy listening to music the way we got used to. Thank you Steve for keeping our feet grounded on common sense and reality.
We've hung up nice looking crochet and patchwork quilts on our walls. Made quite a positive difference particularly the ones either side of the speakers (Kef R7)
Great as always. Lyngdorf’s Room Perfect made a significant improvement. And hugely increased my listening pleasure.
Great video Steve, learnt lots and it’s settled my mind, the way my Lounge is virtually impossible to do anything with it’s shape other than sitting closer to the speakers.
Thank you, Steve!
LOVE that shirt!
Noah Lyon's 'the shirt to end all t-shirts'
I have been using Lyngdorf's room correction RoomPerfect for a couple of years now using the Lyngdorf TDAI 2170 integrated. It has improved both the tonality and the sound stage resulting in a much more enjoyable listening experience. I can't imagine going back to no room correction.
have you tried the Lyngdorf "Room perfect" system?
They have spend a fortune getting this to work and be simple to employ and whilst its never going to be absolutely perfect its pretty damned good and is specifically designed with subwoofer integration in mind.
Ive been using it for a long time and will never go back
Love seeing other peoples systems. Keep up the good work Steve.
I tend to look at rooms as part of the loudspeakers. I also have an outdoor system and it's amazing how much the freedom from reflections helps produce a crazy accurate image. I don't have any issues with bass or smallness because I don't use wimpy overly small audiophile designs.
Hi Steve. Back in 1983 i was able to have a separate room built onto the rear of my house to listen to music. Back then there was not much information about room treatment for acoustics. The room is rectangular about 26 x 15 feet with a single door entrance. There are 2 windows in the room covered with thick curtains. The entire floor has thick carpet. The sound at that time was very lively with too much reflection. So, i decided to keep adding thick curtain around the room. These curtain panels can open to expose more bare wall if necessary. The only two surfaces of the room that are not treated are the ceiling and the rear wall behind my listening chair. I am able to sit about 20 feet from the speakers which are 10 feet apart because i hear the direct sound first. Also, i can hear the reverberation that was recorded with the instruments which gives a huge 3 dimensional sound stage, particularly with cross-talk cancellation.
It’s a JOURNEY! 😍
Yes!
A good basic requirement for room treatment (for me) is getting live speech to sound warm & natural.
No slap echo or ringing that is common in many US homes!
🎶🤫🎶
Japan audiophiles are famous for not using room treatment yet their systems sound amazing
Love that vintage Apple monitor!
Good video, Steve.......thanks!
Happy 5 year Anniversary! Lots of free advise from this video and channel. I wonder how many of us listen to their favorite tune on a good set of headphones? If not they could be missing some detail. I sometimes will eliminate the room as much as possible by moving closer to my floor standing speakers and turning them in, on much lower volume of course.
I also have The Ultimate Sound Demonstration Disc from Chesky Records - Guide to Critical Listening from 1995, I can remember hearing more high end back then, now not so much as I age.
My home office has a bad bass node. I wanted a streamer so replaced my Musical Fidelity integrated with the Lyngdorf tdai 1120 with Room Perfect. It made a very noticeable improvement.
Thats why I have line arrays for the stereo system to vastly reduce room influences. Love the old 550 Nakamichi portable Cassette. Used mine using KM-86 mics to make live steam recordings way back when.
Impeccable is achievable, perfection
“like chicken soup - it couldn’t hurt”… except for the chicken! 🤣
Steve, I am really surprised you didn’t mention, and/or try Lyngdorf’s Room Perfect. Room Perfect is the most significant improvement to my audio system, by far! I would highly recommend that you test a Lyngdorf TDAI1120 or TDAI3400 as soon as possible.
"Speakers Play the Room" should be your next t-shirt. 👍
A few weeks ago I moved my coffee table off to the side. Now I get 99% direct sound au-go-go!!! And psychologically it feels nicer to have the open space. 🤘👂
Hi Steve
I live offGrid n a canvas tent ⛺️ ,while I build small cabin’s for my audio equipment,it’s so great for acoustics as the sound travels thou the many layers ,N so is reflection free .I will take sum photos soon ,as it would be my coolest thing to have a viewers system of any day .
You rock Steve like my vintage Rel’s
Steve, thinking your Cornwalls in a small, old country church would be awesome. I was able to put in a sound insulated 2x6 wall a bit over an inch from the basement wall that is 4 inches of foam/8 inches of concrete/4 inches of foam/ 100 feet of dirt. The interior wall is then isolated from the interior wall. Wooden ceiling. Just like a recording studio. Still want some more, but sounds pretty good.
I use carpet & area rugs in n between LP and speakers. I use a tall bookshelf set behind LP as a diffuser. That w/proper speaker placement works well enough for me.
Question. Are the rooms constructed identical? If not, that will also affect the sound at the lower frequencies.
I haven’t tried it personally but I’ve heard that a pair of Klipsch La Scalas outdoors sound anything but wimpy. In regard to room treatment, the 2’x4’ 3” thick Rockwool filled absorption panels I put on at midrange/tweeter horn level on either side of the Klipschorns I used to own made an incredible difference in clarity and imaging. I’m pretty sure that adding absorption at early reflection surfaces would help any speaker.
Thanks Steve! But I am going to have to beat a dead horse here. Just a few well placed absorption panels at the first reflection points will help a great deal. Especially with sound stage and imaging. Everyone should try it for themselves of course. I did some diy panels some years back and it really does work wonders
Rooms can be weird. In my setup I have the speakers in one end of the room on a short wall and 3 to 3-1/2 ft away from that end wall. The equipment is on a very heavy record cabinet (34" tall) on side wall. I was getting some glare that i thought was a first reflection problem but nothing I did solved it. To make the equipment more usable I swapped the position of my turntable with the stack of gear (preamp, DAC and CD Transport) and the problem went away. The sound must have been bouncing off the TT cover.. and swapping the positions blocked the path to that TT cover.
I have been going around youtube recently commenting on the room simply being another component due as much care in selection and "treatment" as the others. One can help by first accumulating a system with some synergy. Unbeknownst to me at the time, building Dynaco amps and preamps 48 years ago was a great start when combined with their speakers (and later small and large Advents) and a Dual (later a Technics) turntable. They could rock any room despite my penchant for hanging speakers from the ceiling at the corner of the room and above my sitting head.🙃 As much as I want new equipment (no changes for 20+ years except selling Kornerhorns (when I sold the house with the dedicated room) I modified and replacing with VMPS speakers I already owned), this current little system is very happy together. It could use better speakers but there is an embarrassment of riches on the used market these days (a lot of pandemic purchases now gathering dust) that may just be a fool"s temptation for my unusual but sounding pretty darn good little rental room. So I'm watching and reading and thinking because actually hearing 95% of them is impossible. Not to mention hearing them in my room. We should all get to be reviewers for a year, just like we should all get to live on the California coast for 6 months on a rotating basis....I got mine in before the drought and fires but did get to feel a few shakers. Sitting distance from the speakers is also critical as you mention, but too close will kill imaging, too far I have never experienced but I would guess same. Magnepan will tell you to buy the most speaker you can afford regardless of room size and I have no experience personally other than woofers and tweeters, where the same definitely does not hold true. So much as Bose gets the criticism in the high end world their advertising and design concept of accurately combining direct and reflected sound is what a proper room (and a live concert) is all about. I didn't own any (ok the 901's for 2 weeks) but heard all of their models and got schooled in Classical music by a great college roommate with the 501's and a Thorens turntable. "Plays well with others" is not just a compliment for kids.
Added absorption and diffusion resulting in a significant increase in dimensionality. Liked it before, loved it afterward, a worthwhile endeavor.
Are there any company's that make acoustic flat screen tv covers as there is no way to change my speaker position and one speaker is very close to the tv which has to be on a side wall must be causing havoc with my sound
I do not have a dedicated music room. When I want to get into "serious" listening, I hang moving mats on grommets in my living room. Not pretty but what a major difference in sound.
Steve can you review the Buchardt i150 amplifier with the Buchardt S400 Mk2 speakers please ?
I like that shirt !!
Steve, thank you for your YT content, always entertaining....I'm fortunate enough to master in 2 high achieving studios here in Hastings,UK... Completely different room designs and equipment (e.g.PMC v ATC monitors). When I cross-reference my masters I very rarely hear anything I would have mastered differently in the other studio. I trust both equally, although the sonic signature of both studios is completely different.
Question, does your friend Bob Katz have a preference in which of his rooms he works and why?
I imagine some pots with synthetic plants or bamboo canes. The plants act as a diffuser and the pot, instead of being filled with substrate and fertilizer, can be filled with acoustic material, forming a bass trap or a resonator if a membrane is installed in the pot. I imagine a ceiling lamp and a floor lamp and some lamps to hang on the walls that have the shape of a diffuser. I imagine a sofa and some armchairs that are stuffed with acoustic material and that act as huge bass traps. I imagine a cabinet for storage that has a membrane resonator located in the part that hits the wall. This would help reconcile family and couple life with audiophilia.
You are great, but this video is one of your better ones. All relative the lot are, and after all there is no such thing as perfect, only continuous improvement. Once one accepts that, the easier this path is to navigate.
Steve low-key letting us know that Andrew Jones is about to release a new speaker.
I by know means am an expert Audiophile by any means. I am certain 98% of speakers sound better when your closer. In my room an set-up, I find I am about 2/3rds of the room away, from them to get the perfect balance of sound quality/soundstage from my Vintage Sansui’s. Ive found it odd but it seems my placement, about 8ft apart 2ft off the wall, toed in to shoulders, and being about 16ft away gives me ideal sound quality ,and enormous sound stage from an 8” 2-way. No Sub in the mix. Tube EL34 amp.
I can’t wait to grab a modern set of speakers to see what new experiences Ill have. Harbeth, Audio Note, Zu Audio, Tekton, Wharfedale. Only just began the Audiophile Journey a year ago, enjoying music again.
Welcome, trust your ears. Everyone’s room is different, Different electronics, music genre, how loud or quietly we listen. The only thing that matters is enjoying the music.
A silly comment....I have seen the shirt your wearing many times in your videos and this one is my fave. Reminds me of the Life magazine cover at the end of the 60's.
That and any shirt with Edvard Munch "the Scream" as well as Alfred E. Newman, Parlament and Joy division and the Ramones must be alright!
Fond memories of the Nak 550 except for how fast it could chew through 8 d-cells batteries.
Before investigating in room treatment, sometimes it could be your own listening seat that is the problem? I had a leather sofa bed which I gave to a friend & today got an immaculate 2nd hand 2 woven material 2 seater sofa with a high back ( I wanted this for long term listening ) Some treble energy has gone , however there is no ringing in my room and the middle image is solid & rich. Currently listening to Black Sabbath Paranoid lp & I feel almost like the bong is handed to me 🤣🤣🤣
treatment is ALWAYS neccessary to get an even and good playback & freq response. Its basic of high end audio reproduction. With moving your seat in a untreated room you just change one room mode to another…. simply physics and how sound waves travels through a room
@@MMK___ what did you then?
So true SG. The carry-on about rooms by some reviewers is tiresome.
That is a great T-Shirt. Anyone know where it is from?
My friend Noah designed it, www.noahlyon.com/shop
there are no problem to make a few tube traps for corners and points of first reflections and move the speakers away from rear wall by 1 meter
i did it a month ago and my joy has no limits
this is really cheap and simple path to improve the situation
That’s fantastic. But do you try and experiment and take the tube traps out of the corners and put them along the middle of the wall. I’ve been hearing corners aren’t the problem for bass. Just try it.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac unfortunately my corner traps too big to move (h2.7m and D0.6m)
that's why they stand in the corners behind the speakers and subs
but it was funny time when I was moving my four little traps around the room and taking measurements
now I have found a good balance beetwen their efficiency and livingroom ergonomics
it looks like from -12.5db to -6.5db on 50Hz and from +12db to +5db on 70Hz
I think it is a good result, at least I enjoy to music (holographic stage and dry punchy bass) with more pleasure than before
especially Meiko - Playing Favorites
You know what I mean 😉🙏
The room is a filter.
The room's transfer function imparts excessive decay times in the LF.
Sidewall first reflection points are an issue, but certainly not the challenge that LF energy presents.
After decades of pursuing all things acoustics, both professionally and as an enthusiast, I've come full circle in hierarchy of importance of what to address in which order.
Just like electronic distortions, there's acoustic distortions of the room. SBIR, modal resonances, both examples of acoustic distortions.
- With proper L-to-R symmetry, establish an optimal distance off the front wall, minimizing destructive boundary nulling SBIR.
With every room/speaker combo, there exists ideal spacing off the front wall... find it.
Either flush mount your mains, or manage the distance. Managing the distance can include both spacing and absorption.
Stripping away the destructive comb filtering sounds better... it elevates punch and increases clarity.
That's first;
L-to-R symmetry, properly spaced off the front wall.
Next;
All the bass trapping you can possibly employ, faced with diffusion/scattering... as to not overly damp the upper freqs.
If using porous absorption, if need be you can face the trapping with 4mil, 6mil Visqueen to limit the range of absorption.
That's it, those two acoustic strategies;
- L-to-R symmetry w/proper front boundary execution.
- Bass trapping w/diffusion.
Yes, sidewall energy should be addressed, all other best practices are a given, ie., diffraction and very early reflections, provide for a clean wavelaunch ie., don't place the gear rack to be significant acoustically, and speaker location relative to listening position. Use parametric EQ to pull down what resonances remain.
- The room's dimensions determine the resonances/modes.
- Speaker location determines which modes are excited.
- Listener position determines which modes are heard.
Excessive LF decay, is a big deal ... vastly more problematic than sidewall reflections.
Essentially, an entire room bass trapped, all covered in diffusion.
So much more to add... gotta stop somewhere:(
(diy room treatment is the single most impactful bang for the buck endeavor)
What's the single greatest Rock song ever? (I heard Lex Fridman asked a guest that this morning)
Lex said Stairway...
Nope. That would be a Bob Dylan tune..
@@robertwoodward9231
Dylan tune?
Hendrix playing Watchtower?
@@FOH3663 Ha yes, you're getting warm..
@@robertwoodward9231
Folk song?
I mean Aretha's "Respect" is an all time great, but it's not a Rock track.
Myself, I'm not sure what I'd guess is the greatest... perhaps not my favorite, but the greatest Rock song.
Stones' "Satisfaction" was a benchmark.
Beatles' "Day in a Life" changed everything.
I thought their brief discussion on the Podcast ... the intent was Rock specifically, not like greatest song ever of any genre.
Dylan's work is unparalleled. One of my desert island full albums is a Dylan release... likely one others wouldn't pick!
Nearfield listening will eliminate a lot of a room, too. Surprised you didn’t mention that or did you? Thanks, Steve.
I did!
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac I discovered the joy of “nearphones” as I call near field listening back in the 1970s. It _can_ make even quite mediocre speakers sound pretty good. Ideal distance varies, but no more than a metre for most in my experience. Also discovered that the more you complicate things, like overly complex crossovers, the more confused the sound.
Digging the goatee! Wish I could grow, I can't get past the itch!
Hey, thanks for sharing the diffusers, the name, and the company. I was always curious.
Please cover: placement of wide dispersion vs. narrow dispersion speakers, specifically what wall to place them, wide dispersion Best along the long wall? narrow Best along the short wall? Maybe it doesn't matter given all the tech out there in room corrections like Direc, treatments, DSP sound expansion, getting closer to the speakers, and more stuff in the room, etc. Stay well Steve.
That’s not a goatee.. A goatee is a small pointy beard on the chin not under the lips👍 This is the definition of what Steve has…It’s called a Mouche , Soul Patch, Jazz Dot and a few other names and was worn mostly by African American Jazzmen✅ Enjoy The Knowledge…Best2You..
@@meutubedou Ah, right, Mouche, or the Frank Zappa look. LOL. Eh, I could never get past the itching phase of growing facial hair. But thanks for the education! Peace to you too.
@@markd4292 , Yes, Zappa❤️ Just played the 1978 Live Chicago concert last night.. Absolutely superb musicianship… He’s always been one of the Artists I use to test new gear or impress newbies.. Especially the Double Apostrophe/Overnight Sensation CD👍 Anything Van Morrison , Bob Dylan’s “Slow Tain Coming” and anything Steely Dan too.. On my channel I show a variety of speakers & Amps with music demo’s., Being 68 I’ve been thru lots of gear.. Thanks for the follow up comment.. Have a great one🤗 Enjoy The Music
FYI the correct (English) term for that lower lip hair is an "Imperial", named after early Chinese Emperors, who were the only people allowed that style of growth. Anyone else found growing one was put to death! 😮
@@iancoulson8171 Bullshit.. It wasn’t until the 1940’s that they started appearing & really “took off” in the 50’s - the 60”s Jazz period that anyone even worn one especially the Chinese.. Then it disappeared awhile to show again in the late 90’s.. You better look thru some Chinese His/Story photo’s Copy/Paste…”If fact, when it first made a showing on the face of jazz legend Dizzy Gillespie, it didn't even have the same name. Gillespie referred to it, instead, as his "jazz dab" (and others called it the the "Dizzy Gillespie beard"). And at the time-that is, the late '40s-it was considered pretty cool.”Dizzy Gillespie, inventor of the jazz dab. John Birks “Dizzy” Gillespie was born in 1917, which was perfect timing to popularize the jazz dab in the 40s and 50s. Though he occasionally wore his proto soul-patch with a mustache, when he wore it by itself, it became a distinctive trademark.
Since then, the soul patch has co-opted by everyone from beatniks and The Blues Brothers to '90s grunge dudes and modern bros. (Even Garth Brooks wore one in his ill-advised stint as alter-ego Chris Gaines.) And along the way, the style has slipped further and further in the public's estimation, eventually becoming the symbol of general doofishness it's recognized as today. Now go away you uneducated Troll…
Can't understand the point of the question. If the speakers are different shouldn't they sound different as well? Even in the same room they do
Hi Steve, I've recently read an article about NWAA sound lab on Stereophile site and people from that company have original and different approach towards diffusion for rooms. It would be very intresting for us- your viewers to cover this topic in your own original way.
Back... back... way back in maybe 1973 in Brighton in England we put on John Martyn at Hove Town Hall, a 1400 capacity modern venue.
Now unless I am running 2 storied together, we hired John Farlowe, (later) founder of Exposure Audio to do the PA.
John arrived with a pair, one pair of Tannoy prototype speakers.
Tannoy had made 4 speakers. The other pair can be seen in the movie Performance with Mick Jagger singing and dancing in front of them.
They could actually handle being used in a large-ish venue.
But maybe not very much else can.
You can see glimpses of them in this trailer...
th-cam.com/video/wFxfn3LakeM/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/wFxfn3LakeM/w-d-xo.html
I wonder if Gillam (sp?) watches someone like Yamanaka Syujiro or others in that circle that seem to love their back-loaded horns and Fostex drivers.
Hi, I'm Guilhem, the viewer of this "Viewer system of the day" and owner of these little Fostex boxes !
I already saw Yamanaka Syujiro's channel. Great videos and projects, but not so much explainations.
In fact I build Fostex Backloaded horn kit for the Fostex FE206E when I was younger, and they rocks ! So fast, clear and rich and with low end/medium to die for, but they are way too big for my flat, so they stayed at my parent's home.
The bookshelves ones with the FE103En are better sized for a flat, really good too, but do not have any bass and are sounding way smaller than their big sisters. However, they do not have the "whizzer cone's effect" and are more linear in the high.
I'm planning to build new enclosures for them, maybe on the "Solo103" schematics to see if I can have more bass. The BK Electronics sub is great, but it do not go beyond 120Hz, and the Fostex hardly goes this low.
Anyway, even if full-range drivers aren't perfect or even realy balanced, they give so much life en pleasure !
@@guilhemvincent2383 Greetings Guilhem! I was just curious since they looked quite similar to his builds.
Looking at the frequency response on the FE103En PDF, if you were to design in a ~3dB bump at between 90-100Hz, via box design, you'd better match the Sub. Granted, that'd mean going more for a ported enclosure, like the Solo103, but it is possible. The biggest limitation for that driver is it's Xmax. 0.6 mm means it really is meant for mids and highs.
Maybe we'll see an update in the future. It would be very interesting to see where you go on this Audio Journey. And many thanks for the reply. Hope to see you around.
Hi @@TheTrueVoiceOfReason , thank's for the advice !
You're true, the FE103 isn't really a true fullrange driver, but it's going quite low with the right enclosure. In fact, the driver really doesn't move that much at a normal listening level in my flat. Only on really loud bass they are overwhelmed. Maybe a high pass filter could be great to avoid distortions, but this is another story (maybe one day on a full active system) !
The solo103 seems to be a great solution for me.
Whatever happens, I'm going to keep them to try tower speakers (Transmission Line or backloaded horn) and see what they can do.
If these projects come to be realized, they will be seen on my Instagram!
Put some fairy dust on everything.
What I find funny is that audiophiles don't even know what perfect room sounds like yet some of them are trying to create one.
".....people say rugs don't make that big of a difference." If they say that, there is something wrong with them. Where I come from (the 1950s), people either say "....don't make that much of a difference." or "....don't make that big a difference." One choice, two options, both correct. Great topic, Steve, btw.
It all depends on what you want folks.
Do want some room verb?
Do you want sonic dead space?
I love verb but get that it’s not for everyone.
S/N ratio and frequency response is the only thing you really hear, other than nuance.
Listen to headphones if you don’t want to hear any of that. Simple.
I pretty much have created an anachoic chamber.
Take my speakers outside? Well okay, I sure hope my neighbors enjoy the sweet sounds of War Pigs and Into The Void 😁
Check Steve out with the Supreme X CDG tee.
I didn’t think it was possible for him to become cooler.
Might be time to review one of the better room correction tools available today.
So, he made the rooms equal, but he was surprised that two different speakers still sounded different? I don't get it.
There is no such thing as perfection. Perfect is also subjective. One man’s idea of perfection is not the same as another’s. I think a cute petite blond, blue eyed female is getting visually close to my concept of perfection. My brother favours a voluptuous brunette.
When you acoustically treat a room, you change it’s sonic properties. Whether you consider those changes represent an improvement is surely subject to personal preference!
Oh, and for the record, my partner is neither blond or brunette. Neither petite or voluptuous. But I still fully appreciate her virtues and love her for those virtues.
treatment = control the sound / energy you put in the room = more details - no treatment = no control = muddy and undefined sound / energy in the room
@@MMK___ put together a hifi system capable of reproducing recordings the way you like to hear them, with an off access response that closely mimics the on access response and room treatment becomes a much lower priority.
As I exclaimed, room treatment will undoubtedly alter your room’s acoustic property. Whether that altered acoustic state constitutes an improvement, has to come down to personal listening preferences. I prefer a slightly lively room. Others may prefer a flatter response. There is no right or wrong, there is just different. Every action has consequences. Whether those consequences work in your favour is debatable.
Enjoy the music!
@@howardskeivys4184 when you want a undefined freq response okey, but for a tight lowend, more details, better imaging, better depth - the one and only way is to treat your room with an good acoustic concept. You cant get resolution & quality when the foundadtion ,the room, isnt capable of. No speaker in the world can solve that. Of course you always can argue with personal preference, but no room treatment concept = no high end sound…
Bob Robbins the art of rational speaker placement video is a good start.
Link??
@@carlitomelon4610 th-cam.com/video/84Pf0ycbyBM/w-d-xo.html
Mastering engineers seat very close to their speakers compare to us...
thats why treatment is exactly as important at home. As more your position is away, as more undefined room sound you hear and less direct sound.
audiphiliac looking rough
Bob Robbins TH-cam video on speaker placement…makes the claim that no treatment is needed with his art of speaker placement.
I have found the solution to perfect room acoustics. Headphones. 🤣
@3:04 its the most important part of the complete setup. But people still prefer to ,,upgrade,, their Amps, Cables or Speakers. The thing is, its not done when you hang on some pre-made panels on the walls. You need Knowledge, learning about Acoustics to get a good Solution (with Diffusion & Absorption) and thats need Time & Money and most wannabe ,,Audiophiles,, are not interested in that or have any excuses why Acoustics are not the main Point in Music Listening
Acoustics, important as they are, are _not_ “the main Point in Music Listening“, the _music_ is. It would seem akin to obsessing over the TV test pattern in the days when that’s what was transmitted by TV broadcasts overnight, rather than program content.
@@jonathansturm4163
More akin to adjusting the display to achieve the clearest, most pleasing image of that test pattern.
@@jonathansturm4163 You will always hear the Room + Speakers. When your room is not treated it cant sound perfect. Its impossible, its simply physic. And i think we Audio & Music Fans are all searching for a good system and think about how it can sound better. Of course you can listen in a untreated room, but you can also listen in your kitchen, that doesnt mean that its a pleasing experience with acouracy, good timing, clean hearable Transients & Details - that can you only achieve with treatment, no speaker technology or Dsp in the world can fix rooms with a lot of reverb or standing waves. But i think thats a general ,Problem, in this Hobby specially when you read all the Comments under TH-cam videos, People are too focussed on the Gear and the small details like Cables, the Loudspeaker finish or new Amps. Most people dont care and dont even know, its simply way easyier to spend money on the latest dac technology than room treatment wich is the only way to bring your system on a new level of quality
@@vtkz When I was editing and typesetting Paul McGowan’s brilliant biography _99% True_ I was impressed by the number of occasions where he solved setup problems by removing excessive and inappropriate room treatments. My own experiences dating from the early 1970s onward indicate that a light hand, or minimalist approach works best _for me_
@@jonathansturm4163 yea maybe because he like the sound of an untreated room idk ( and i dont listen to hifi ,,experts,, on youtube because all these channels are mostly talking nonsense, do marketing for the same brands over and over again aka Gear for the masses). I personally would never listen in a room where i dont have even minimal room treatment on the first reflection points. It doesnt make sense for me to buy gear for thousands of euros and destroy their quality’s with undefined and muddy sound because room modes, echoes & reverb from the room mess up the sound. Even a 1k system sounds so much better when youve the energy under control they put into the room. Only an overall concept with Roomtreatment (Absorption + Diffusion) + Gear leads to an Perfect, acourate and harmonic Hifi Setup. But most people are only on the Gear Chase and think the new Amplifier or DAC sounds sooo much better than the old one instead of think about some Absorber to keep the Sound Energy under control
Yes it is true, you are Steve Guttenberg..........point being?
There are people impersonating me.
@@SteveGuttenbergAudiophiliac Oh lol. Cant beat the original
@2:25 "But really, that's what they're doing -- is trying to make recordings that sound good to pretty-much everybody."
I respectfully disagree. Or, the mastering engineers really are trying to do so, and are incompetent. Why?
If a recording sounds amazing on a professionally set-up, high-end stereo, then that recording will sound great on any and every stereo, regardless of price or location.
If there is an exception (like a noisy work environment), then that very small exception should not be something that the mastering engineers cater to, because they screw up the recordings when they cater to obscure circumstances.
A meal prepared by a top chef will be delicious, no matter where you eat it.
Yes, it will taste best on a picturesque tropical island, with a cool ocean breeze for atmosphere. But that top chef meal will also be delicious on a smelly bus.
The idea that crummy sounding recordings sound better on crummy stereo systems is absurd.
No matter the stereo...
When you feed that stereo amazing sounding content, then that stereo will sound its best.
If your stereo has lousy tweeters, then the world should not have to suffer with boosted highs to compensate for the minority of speakers with lousy tweeters.
Yes, the studios should want to release content that sounds best on the most stereos.
They would accomplish that goal, if they made their content sound best on professionally set-up, high-end stereos. Such a stereo is the "lab". If it sounds great there, it will sound great virtually everywhere.
I still use the speakers that I purchased with my 1992 Gateway 2000 computer. And the music that sounds best on my very good living-room stereo sounds best on my old computer speakers.
I have a 2020 Honda Accord. Its stereo is not good. People that do not know better seem to like it. But it kind of sucks. Yet, my best sounding recordings (the ones that sound best in my living-room), still sound best in my Accord. It almost makes my Accord's stereo listenable.
Folks, quality recordings bring out the best in any stereo.
So the mastering engineers should stop with the catering to headphones, and elevators, and cars, and laptops, and on and on and on. They are just screwing things up.
The mastering engineers should focus on professionally set-up, high-end stereos. When they nail the recording on such a stereo, then that recording will make virtually every other stereo shine.
agreed, and let the mastering engineers make the best possible recording.
can not bow down to lowest common denominator, those people do not care anyways.
@@sudd3660 Another analogy that I should have included is:
If you have an old, not so good TV. Well, that TV will not look better if you feed it sub-par video content.
That crummy, old TV will still look best when being fed a crisp, sharp video feed.
I do not know from where the bizarre rumor took roots that, lesser quality content (audio or video), will improve the experience on lesser quality equipment. That defies logic.
What's next? An old, badly running car will run better with bad gas?
That is why I identify the mastering engineers as incompetent. They live in La La Land, expecting poorer sounding content to sound better on various, less than ideal stereos.
They know how to operate their equipment. But that comes from experience. But just as someone that drives the same car for years knows their car's equipment, that does not make them a professional driver. Neither does it make the mastering engineers professionals in their field. They are simply skilled at turning their knobs and pushing their levers.
Based on what gets released to the public; based on their actual work product; based on their results, my conclusion is that those engineers are incompetent.
Not all of them. There are some amazing sounding songs. But every song should sound amazing. We should not have to be detectives to unearth them.
Bob Katz mentioned his Kii Three speakers. Why not review them??
I've heard them in studios, I don't like them.
Acoustics, important as they are, are not “the main Point in Music Listening“, the music is. It would seem akin to obsessing over the TV test pattern in the days when that’s what was transmitted by TV broadcasts overnight, rather than program content.
no youre wrong. they are the main point. No Acoustic Concept = No Energy Control you put in the room = def no high end sound and poor performance. The music and gear can be good as it can, when you cant control the energy you put into the room (what treatment is at the end, energy control) you only get an muddy poor performance. There are no ,,wonder speaker,, who can tricks out your room modes. Even Cardiod system cant do that
What's up with Steve's neck!
Could swear Rick Beato made a cameo
Ha!!
To be an audiophile one needs these attributes: They must be gullible, they should be naive and it helps to have a lot of excess cash or access to credit. Limited hearing ability through age as most audiophiles do is also a plus. One should above all be a science denier. If one does not have these special abilities don’t fret as you can just enjoy the music, it’s a lot less stressful.🤡
I Take It You've Got A Plastic Stereo From ASDA. .. Injoy , my friend...
NOPE & if your gear is not anchored into the concrete foundation of your house you have NO IDEA WHAT YOUR MISSING. Total isolation for turntables and removing resonant frequencies. I did a video to the extraordinary lengths I went to writhing my budget including taking room design from speaker enclosure design. How does sound? WHAT?
EVERY room needs well plannend treatment. As more Money you put in an acoustic concept, as clearer gets the Playback. Thats why you logical need to spend the money first in room acoustics and than into the gear. But Audiofools spend mostly 0,- in Acoustics and want to tell you how crisp and tight everything sounds, its laughable. No Room Acoustics = no details = def not 100% performance, not even 50%.
Also room correction dont do wonders when you dont treat your room. And when you talk about subwoofers for me youve no ideas how well setup Speaker + Sub + Acoustics sound. Sometimes its better dont to talk when you locked in your hifi bubble. Every Active - Subwoofer - Treated Room Setups knocks EVERY, realy EVERY ,,Audiophile,, untreated Floorstander / Bookshelf system out of the park in terms of everything (details, imaging, bass quality, depth etc). But most people are too dumb & blind to let new things in their life and never tried other ways, just listen to wannabe hifi experts on youtube and buy their passive klipsch, magnepan, buchardt whatever marketing stuff and think they have an high end system. What a man does not know, he cannot miss