Origins of the Ancient Minoans | DNA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 เม.ย. 2021
- In this video I host Dr. Peter Revesz on an absolutely fascinating subject and that is the origins of the ancient Minoans.
The Minoan civilization flourished in the Middle Bronze Age on the island of Crete located in the eastern Mediterranean from c. 2000 BCE until c. 1500 BCE. With their unique art and architecture, and the spread of their ideas through contact with other cultures across the Aegean, the Minoans made a significant contribution to the development of Western European civilization as it is known today.
In this episode we go back to a time before civilization. A time of mass migration.
This episode sets out to explore the Minoan Origins from different viewpoints.
Firstly, we explore traditional narratives and especially what they got wrong.
And then we approach Ancient DNA, Art motifs, Vowel harmony, Script similarity, Etymology and finally Translations.
Has Dr. Revesz deciphered Linear A Script and how has his work been accepted?
As we conclude Dr. Revesz believes his data analysis lead to the conclusion that we need to separate the Minoans into two groups: the Early Minoans and the Middle Minoans.(The Late Minoans could be a third group, but there is no archaeogenetic data about them.) Earlier studies have not separated these groups, which have different origins.
The Early Minoans came from Anatolia, while the Middle Minoans came from the Danube Basin. (Sailing from the Danube Delta to Crete is quite possible via the Bosporus Strait.)
Support Dr. Revesz below at these links and check out his TH-cam Channel.
University webpage:
cse.unl.edu/~revesz/
My genetics video, from where the map with the circle comes from:
• Minoan Genetic Origin ...
Art motifs video (water and well motifs):
• Different Origins of E...
Vowel harmony video:
• A Vowel Harmony Testin...
Decipherment video (with the script similarity matrix and
the translation of the gold ring):
• Breakthrough Decipherm...
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This was very well detailed and thought out . Its very sad that most push the oneness and label a bread Mediterranean dna that avoide all details. We must be mature enough to learn details and the sensitive need to grow up.
I enjoyed this presentation, having seen another lecture of Dr. Revesz' a few months ago. Thank you for having him on!
Has the method proposed by Dr. Revesz to establish a relationship between Linear A and the Carian script been used on another family of scripts, like, say, South and Southeast Asian scripts from Brahmi, etc.? It could strengthen the case that the algorithm is sound when used in this context. It's definitely interesting to see in action a method that derives from a more purely-computational approach and not rely as on historical linguistic data.
In European vilegies, even now there is a saying " The Huns are coming" from the time of Atila -The Hun
Was wondering if you ever have a follow up discussion with Dr. Revesz if he could provide clarification on consequences of this shift in Finno-Ugric urheim, does he think that the Hungarian language remained in situ in Pannonia, or does he think it originated in the Danube delta, migrated to the Ural mountain region, and then returned with the Magyar invasions of the Middle Ages?
Can this channel be sufficiently monetised to enable you to work on it full time? Would that be welcome?
Unfortunatly this does have a strong ring of Hungarian nationalism. The fact that the modern Hungarian population have some DNA from the mesolithic population does not in any way mean that the Fino ugaric languages originate there. If that were the case then every modern European language could claim to originate in mesolithic Europe, as most Europeans carry some mesolithic DNA from the European hunter gatherer popultion of the time, due to the migrants breeding with the local populations.
gOOD CATCH HE NEEDS TO ADDRESS THIS. OTHERWIDE much respect, HUNS are interelopers
Very true...
@@oldranger649 so are indo Europeans
@@oldranger649 But Hungarians are Magyars...
You are right. It is just idea of Victor Orban about great Hungary. In our country we have three mainHP groups R1a1, I2a and R1b1. As Hungarian have conquered our ancestor in Pannonia, they have got also our HP groups. That is idiot theory. To steal from other to claim as their DNA. Most of citizens in Hungary are Slavs and old natives.
The discussion on Linear A was absolutely fascinating! Thank you to both of you!
You may find more discussion about Linear A and related ancient scripts in my video "The development and role of symmetry in ancient scripts": th-cam.com/video/XVWa0WEn-e0/w-d-xo.html
It's mind blowing! Good luck with your further work!
Thank you Nick for your open mind and having invited Dr Revesz!!!!!
What an amazing man Dr Peter Revesz is! So much detail had to be sorted out and critically examined. So many genetics, and peoples had to be found and others rejected to just begin to see some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hun, Turkish to see the symbols found in masses imagery and the sounds found out' so many languages understood. Absolutely marvellous! So much still to do and exciting discoveries! Cynthia McLaglen
Wellllllllll... yeah, there are going to be some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hunnic and Turkic, because they all originated in the same area. There's some debate as to whether they're genetically related (i.e., springing from the same root), but there's little serious debate that they all came from central Asia.
Yes, please get Dr Revesz Peter again!
HUGE amount of speculation about vowel harmony here. those 'red' and 'blue' groups could be LITERALLY ANY LINGUISTIC DISTINCTION
All he said was it suggested vowel harmony, a feature of many unrelated languages, but it may eliminate some, thus narrowing the search. Very interesting, but hardly a huge claim to get triggered over. A lot of this type of research, is educated guessing, slivers of facts, following clues, to see if the trail goes somewhere or hits a wall. Basically, he's just testing some ideas, and that's perfectly fair.
Thank you somebody’s still woke. Invest in your interest and do your own work not just homework. If you don’t see it or know what you’re looking at it’s all hearsay. Mostly speculation. They’re really not talking anyway.
@@macvena Well, he's also making some claims that are a little silly, to say the least. No one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to without a Mycenaean-Minoan Rosetta stone, and every "breakthrough translation" of the Phaistos disc (the authenticity of which, by the way, is debatable) contradicts the previous one. Likely no one has figured it out.
I hate to go into ad hominems here, but sometimes they're useful. Strikes me as slightly sus that a computer scientist, not a linguist, geneticist, or historian has made this remarkable discovery... and it's even more eyebrow-raising that a Hungarian would claim that the first European civilization was actually the creation of proto-Hungarians. Add it all up, couple it with the weakness of the "evidence" (which is pretty much entirely circumstantial), and you have a proposition which I think can be safely ignored.
I hope we all realize his decipherment creates a readily understandable logically inscribed statement, with a proven repeatable method. These aren't one off translations. Dr. Revesz is a professor of computational linguistics which is exactly what it sounds like a well developed complex, and rapidly evolving field which utilizes toolkits which overlap with a modern geneticist. Computational linguistics can very well be seen and understood as a supplement to computational biology as well as an independent field. I would suggest digging a little deeper into his other posted chats, videos, regarding the minoans; if you're not satisfied you should check out some current lectures on the different theories of human migration that are out there. His publications are not outliers.
If you're a language guy, check out the recent developments on the deciphering of the indus valley script. It utilizes similar strategies.@@jimpalmer2981
It's dangerous to try to make too many conclusions about language from genes. History has shown many times that genes and language doesn't necessarily walk the same paths.
Yes, because of wars and Human character.
I am still having issues with how he compared the art forms, not alone with linguistics.
@@anastasiachristakos2480 He has to scientifically suport Victo Orban`s claiming about Great Hungariy again. Science helps political idea.
@@bojanstare8667 That is not a political idea- that is gaslighting people with lies- just like Erdogan with Turkey. The Turks say that Homer was a Turk and many other fairytales.
@@anastasiachristakos2480 well, he was born in Turkey ...
Love your hoodie! ‘Sea Peoples Mediterranean Tour’
It is easy to smile at a Hungarian finding Hungarian links with the ancient Minoans, however, to be fair, they are mainly with Finnis and early settlers along the Danube. For me, it is not all that important whether, or not, it is eventually proved to be the final, correct answer. What I cannot deny is that there are 14 sensible translations resulting from this approach and that, if wrong, it will crash against the hundreds of yet-to-be-translated ones. So, we can let the scientific method be the final arbiter.
In the meantime, I thank both of you for presenting this careful and respectful piece of Scholarship.
Honestly i don't understand why people are reeing about "muh nationalism" the links with Finni-ugaric are pretty clear, and I'm pretty sure in the entire video all he says is that they are related languages, this isn't a new idea, or even an odd idea, Hungarian has been noted to be very different from any nearby languages since people even bothered to care.
None of the current nation names apply to the ancient cultures that came and went from ancient migrations. Pride has no place in the research.
What do you have against a scholar of Hungarian origin? You statement is more than ridiculous!!!
@@davidhobbs5679 I fully agree, and expect that most others will too.
This is a balanced presentation of both facts and very promising results.
@@Demane69 True. If only enough people could see it as clearly as you do, we could return to good honest research and debate. Best Regards.
Well, a Hungarian finding a connection with Uralo-Altaic populations is quite suspect TO SAY THE LEAST.
Right? I am surprised honestly at this video and why the owner of the channel is not being more critical. usually he takes great pleasure in debunking fringe hypothesises
@@ebbelille well, this isn't presented as a fringe theory, until comparison with some "Uralo-Altaic" cultural constrsucts of much later times AND the, well, professor' Revesz's origins, make some alarm bell sound.
I have heard Albanians with more logical claims to the civilization of Atlantis lol
Note that there was no discussion of Y-DNA during the same periods. I can go along with him, up to a point. But ...when *any* researcher stars cherry picking data? I'm no longer listening. Moving on... ;)
I may have to watch again, but from what I remember, he just said that there were royal dynasties with Mongolian DNA, while the people they ruled over had Finno-Urgic DNA. This is not surprising at all.
Like his analogy with William the Conqueror. That is probably the case more times than naught, for instance the Medes.
Agreed!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 make a similar video about Mycenaean Greece also
You could think of Italy as well, when first the Goths and then the Lombards (after the terrible Justinian Pest that left half the country unhabited) and finally the Franks took over and established their own feudal reign. And yet, as in France and Spain, the language remain Romance and an evolution of Latin Vulgar. unless the mass of the newcomers totally displaces the old population, it is usually intermixing and adopting the pre existent costumes. "IF" the idea of a Ugro-Finnic linear A is possible, it makes sense that, on the isle of Crete, an isolated, depleted (After the Akrotiri disaster) and vastly outnumbered culture gave way to the indoeuropean "Greek" absorption, especially because we know it was a full scale invasion with huge reserves of population migrating form the mainland.
Except that he errs. Old English (Beowulf) is unreadable except to scholars treating it as a separate language. There are all kinds of intricacies that are stripped away by the time Chaucer writes 300 years after the Norman bastard (Tom Paine's assessment) usurped the throne. With some glossary help, he's readable. His contemporary (The Pearl Poet), probably a couple hundred miles from London is still a huge challenge. London's Middle English won out. Along the way, there were also vowel shifts and other changes in pronunciations. To take Linear A, assign it pronunciations with a Carian alphabet 1,100 years its junior, and then translate it into modern Hungarian (3,700 years removed from the original) is a stretch even before realizing the changes Hungarian experienced through the millennia -- before the Huns arrived in Europe in the fifth century. (There's just too much testimonial evidence to ignore.)
Fantastic episode. I was really sad that it ended so soon. I hope you had Dr. Revesz on again (in which I'll find the video)
Thank you. If you are interested in more details please check out my TH-cam channel videos.
@@PeterRevesz so thrilled to find your work on Linear A . I have 2 programmer sons one is thinking of transferring to UNL Computer sci. when he has "cached " enough to return to school.
Such a Great triangulation approach to the problem .
I'm an alumna, BFA.
The art motif + dna + linguistic forensics+ were thrilling since I'm an antiquities / archeology lover. Mid - Late bronze. I was catching up on the last 30 years of Levantine excavations of the costal Pentapolis. OI, Harvard digs .... When I bumped into your work .
Ooolahh lah! I have a lingering affection for egyptology also. 👏👏
Really enjoyed the interview on TH-cam SAMA
@@LMCLTV84 Thank you, it's nice to meet you online. My first interest in archaeology was Egyptology too. Please join my you TH-cam channel under my name if you are interested in learning more details. If your son comes to UNL, I'd be glad to meet him. Go Big Red!
@@PeterRevesz Will do. You forgot to supply the link but I'm sure I can hunt it down at which point I will subscribe.
I was interested in some of the pushback that is obvious to what you are finding. Most of it, one way or another, is an appeal to authority (what previous 'experts' have said).
Usually going with the previous experts is a bad idea. I'm sure you are aware that at one time Sir Arthur Evans, the excavator of the Palace at Knossos, was considered the 'expert' on Linear B (and possibly Linear A as well). He couldn't decipher Linear B but made a pronouncement that whatever language it represented IT WAS NOT Greek. I really wish he would have lived long enough to be told by Michael Ventris, the co-decipherer of Linear B that yes indeed Linear B was ancient Greek!
So, I wish you luck in your endeavours to find the language behind Linear A. I hope I live long enough to hear that announcement.
@@mhorram I appreciate. The story that you wrote shows that archaeologists and classicists were not better qualified to decipher Linear B than architects.
Wow, this was way over my head but mind blowing. I would be interested in finding out if any of these computer techniques could perhaps be used on the Indus Valley script?
I saw a TED talk on using computer logic to decipher Indus script. It's a work in progress, but no major breakthroughs just yet.
Dr Revesz, it occurred to me that your hypothesis may also help explain some mysterious bronze-age trade connections. Specifically, the abundant use of Baltic amber in ancient Egypt and the presence of bronze goods from Sardinia in northern Europe. Perhaps people migrated south following a trade route.
Of course and there's plenty of ancient mythology about this. Read "The Oera Linda" if you haven't yet.
Thanky in angri is panions onli grek is not
Some of the earliest mines in Europe were in Hungary. There were Lead mines there very early, 2-3000 BC and other metal mines , possibly Tin, mines later on.
Tin was in short supply in the later bronze age as middle eastern supplies became scarce, like Lithium is today.
The trade routes then spread through France to Englands Tin mines later on in the Bronze age- but still very early in European pre history.
The European trade routes were found along with bell shaped beakers so naming the Bell Beaker people who were the earliest organized traders. They appeared to be from or trading through to Mesopotamia and the greater middle east.
Those trade routes were later serviced by sea through Phonecian traders making landfall at their main ports like Bilbos.
At some point probably rival Cretian, Carthiginian and/or even European seafarers came along. Sardinian culture predates them all. Early British legands trace their origins in part to Trojan seafarers with family ties to Etruscans. Tintagle Castle in Wales guarded a tin mine and port where early Mediterranean trade goods have been found.
Everyone loves to cut out the middle man!
If your traveling down the Danube or across the Alps selling your metal goods to someone at a Mediterranean port, curiosity gets the better of you as to whether you can make more money trading further along the route.
In tracing my family from the Brittish royalty to France and finally Luxembourg, I was suprised to see those ancient routes emerging.
Luxembourg ruled Crete!
Thats a bit of a spread except as a trade route. I was also tracing the legends of family origins stemming from Melusine.
Those legends led directly to those same areas.
Later on in the Crusades, the Luxembourg royal family was ruling Jerusalem.
It was like seeing a backwards forwards rise and fall of rule and trade linked by family ties.
What started with the middle easts quest for metals especially Tin, may have run through different routes, either through mountain passes like Luxembourg or through the Danube to get to Englands Tin supply.
Trading families often rise to become ruling families. They set up trading centers along the routes and tax or toll commerce. They then strengthen ties along trade routes through marriage to secure rights to trade.
We have had to guess these relations through religion, legends, artistic motifs, grave goods and especially language in the past. Now genetics is coming into play. It may not show the whole picture since rulers can be from far off as in Luxembourg ruling Jerusalem for a thin slice of time, but it certainly adds to the tapestry of understanding the pre written history!
Early European prehistory was hugely influenced by the search and trade of Metals. A minority of traders from far off lands in the middle east most likely came to rule through intermarriage into the local tribes.
The local Celtic tribes then took up the trade. Their ox carts rolled from Switzerland (where early mines were manned by slaves), across France and finally crossed to England before writing had even emerged in Europe.
To show the scope of what an oxcart can do, a few thousand years later ancestors of the same European people forded or floated ox carts across rivers, cutting trails over land as they went, through mountain passes to travel across the American wilderness-in a season or two!
Ox carts with ancient Europeans were found in the Gobi desert in China.
Europeon Scythian tribes people from Anatolia ( but probably scandanavians), crossed over to Mongolia. They then came to rule China and later moved back again under Ghengis Khan to reconquer everything up to and even a bit further into Europe. Those people and others were possibly related to the original metal traders out of the early Hungarian mines.
Those were the people who first harnessed oxen and later horses to carts to move goods and people long distances. That may have been driven by trade in heavy goods like metals. Later shipping was used to move heavy metals spurring trade in all goods.
The Ox cart peddlers were still in business in America as "Yankee Peddlers" and " Nutmeggers" after buying goods at port cities to be moved inland.
Hello, proposed Proto-Ugric homeland in Danubian valley sounds super strange.
Proto Uralic (Ugric is a daughter branch) has a lot of words for northern coniferous trees, so much more northeastern homeland seems more plausible (near Ural mountains).
I feel Minoans being of European neolithic ancestry (ancestors of farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Danube valleys) sounds logical, but why should they be Ugric? What is known from Eteocretan language it looks more like related to Etruscan and Lemnian (Tyrsenian).
why did you assume the ugrik lingo-group tho?
God speed anyway
@@beakfordclakington1337 Hello, it was proposed by Dr. Revesz in the video, I fear there is not much of a scientific support for this idea. Have a nice day
@@velenektraian9299 and u, have a nice day
"but why should they be Ugric?"
Well, your answer is in 1:56...
It is pure Nationalist Pseudohistory, sorry.
@@favero4446 absolutely agree. Also to all who missed it: the Danube/Carpathian basin where, according to this gentlemen, pretty much EVERYthing originates also happens to be the place where his birthplace Hungary is. How convenient.
That water motif is found in ancient Egyptian symbolism where there is a circle that Nut is astride with two jackals facing wavy water symbols, the left jackal touching the water with his paw. This was borrowed by the Boetians with a pair of male and female wolves, left with ithyphalic symbol and right with scallop/oyster female symbol. The male reaching up to touch the water pouring from Artemis' dress that has a fish symbol. This symbolizes taking a path with the water being emotional and mental in nature.
According to my observation, the water motif originated from the Fertile Crescent and spread from there to Europe during the Neolithic. It is not surprising that the water motif occurs in ancient Egypt because it is part of the Fertile Crescent.
Egyptian, exactly, not Finnic))) I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
This is the first translation breakthrough of Minoan script that I've seen. The derived meaning on the scripted bridal ring sounds so personally authentic. Thank you for sharing this discussion. It's inspiring to see this line of research.
You’re most welcome and thanks for watching. I really enjoyed hosting him and his work is truly awesome.
Minoans Language is one form of Greek language the inscrepsion of linear is not different language from greek but one form of writing of ancient Greek with Greek root of word
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Why you did it? Is it because you can't stand saying someone the truth?
@@nikosmihalo4706 Minoan language is likely a language isolate, not related to any known language.
@@bitter_truth8646 Lies you mean 😬
Your doctor Revesz Is awesome! Thank you for having him on
Thank you so much for watching and for enjoying the time he devoted to the channel!
Thank you Nick for having invited Dr Revesz!
Are there historians that support this theory, as this just sounds like he was specifically looking for Hungarian connection with Minoans, not an actual origin of them?
The fact he translated a text is pretty strong LOL... and the reasoning that traveling down the Black sea coast, then island hopping southward towards Crete is a far better path than traveling across open water from anywhere else in the Meditteranean. Especially in the old ships.
Huns, Avars and Hungarians (Magyars) are steppe tribes not sailors. The same as Tatars. Have you ever seen Hungarian sailor? Me not.
@@MarkVrem More like ''translated'', this is a completely bogus theory, if a Greek archaeologist was out with the same theory about the double axe carvings found in UK you would all be at his throat.
@@bojanstare8667 Fa Nándor.
Of course not. No historian or archaeologist that is not a complete clown would ever support such a theory
Interesting but I remain unconvinced until he can cross check several translations and they prove to make sense. He makes a case, but only presents one example which may be biased by his Hungarian / fino ugric affinity... which could also be the angle for a breakthrough for sure... but comparison, peer review, and others attempting translations based on his hypothesis is needed.
Love these topics. Any chance of clarity on where the Dorians, Ionians etc came from plus the dispersion on the Greeks in Asia and Southern Europe?
Love the video. But did anyone else notice that it was not an actual interview? It was two separate videos edited together to look like an interview.
This format might have worked better incase of slow internet speeds across continents. If anything, it's free, and more quality than some of my college history.
Fascinating. In-depth. Meaty. Intriguing new avenues for exploration. Kudos!
A big thank you to Dr Revesz for sharing with us. I note that the symbol showed for fig has the value NI because in those times fig was called 'Nikoulion' and not siko as in Greek. I have also heard of the word 'Kounalion'
As for Linear A, I believe the language is the same as that spoken in Anatolia, near Hatti Land as the Minoans carry 2 same cultural elements: palace structure and religion (mother nature, bear, axe, bull, red colour painting).
I still debate whether the people from Balkans introduced the writing system to mesopotamians, Levant and Crete.
Hi. In “Termcraft: The emergence of terminology science from the Vincans and Sumerians to Aristotle” by Lambert, a table proposes examples of possible sign continuity between Vincan (Vintchan), Mesopotamia, the Nile, and Linear B. The sources are Petrie, quoted in Winn (Pre-Writing in Southeastern Europe, 248-249, from a list of 82 Vinca-type signs out of 210, Winn lists 50 signs that are comparable to Nilotic signs (pre 3200, from Petrie), 46 to Aegean signs (2500-1150, from Edgar and Hogarth), and 45 to Trojan signs (post 3000 BCE, from Schliemann); Haarmann; Singh. Cheers.
I miss you Nick. You are excellent. Thank you Dr.!!!!
Very interesting review of current evidence for the origin of the Minoans. I do find it convincing. Thanks for putting this together with Dr. Revesz.
I have enjoyed the language and writing system part the most. It was all great. Thanks for sharing.
Thrilled to hear that! Thank you for watching!
That was amazing!
Also, it was mentioned at some point the subject was controversial. Could you do an interview with another viewpoint, and then a debate? I think it could be super interesting
Thanks for watching! That’s a really interesting idea. I’ll think about this!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 hey hungarian,
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MINOANS! YOU ARE TURKIC NATION SUCH AS THE FINNS, which are not Scandinavians! Urban's nationalism theory makes you brainwashed.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 stop stealing other's history and create your own..
12:52 The dear Professor just missed to mention the BASQUES in South-West France and in North-West Spain who are also based on the Mezolitc group he had mentioned so correctly.
And probably they are the only remaining population so close related to the mesolithic populations. The dear professor seems to be forcing alot of elements in order to fit his nationalistic narrative
It seems that the U5 mtDNA haplogroup split into two old groups within Europe. While Basques and Finno-Ugric groups share the U5 haplogroup, Basques have almost exclusively U5b lineages (U5b1f, U5b1c1, U5b2) not the U5a1 lineage shown on the map in the video.
@@joek600 Dr. Révész has not stated such a sentence. He only demonstrated a logical way, how to ‘crack’ Minoan script linear A. Then there is another question, which language changed the less from the bronze-age.
Basques and Sardinians are genetically related, but not to anyone else in particular, except most of the British Isles
@@christopherellis2663 Basically true since the Celts when they got to the islands did not killed off the original population ther but mostly intigrated them into their society. Of course there are other opinions but this on seems to be the most reasonalble since the gen material of those ancient people turns up so often in the British population
Sapmi stretches from Norway in the west, including Sweden, and to the east; western Russia, and yes northern Finland. The biggest Sami concentration is in Norway and Sweden. Plenty of ancient and indigenous cultures share similar art motifs, as seen in pottery, textiles, and even tattoos. Especially if taken from nature and the stars. Doesn't mean it's the same, nor that it is connected! The ancestors of the Sami mixed with the already existing populations that had been in Scandinavia since the last Ice Age. They were a hunter and gatherer society. Later they also did farming. But it's kinda farfetch to think that the Same Finno Ugric people went south and created the Minoan civilization that are completely different in basically anything! Like if that's the case then I must be related to Berbers, and Baltic people, because they share the same tattoo motifs (also used in textiles), as my tribe in the Philippines, as well as other Austronesian and Polynesian people. Which is of course BS... Lol we even have the same water motif!
I feel it more likely that the farflung trade corridors of the Aegeans carried them to distant corners where many settled and survived even as the core of their world collapsed.
Actually, there are native New Zealanders who have family histories of being descendants of Persians and when the dna tests came out it was very true. (among other unexpected and far stretched connections). Not as likely bs as some would have us believe.
The Sami arrived in Scandinavia after the Indo-Europeans, what makes them “indigenous” ?
The Sami are just part of the story. As to are the indiginous people from North Central Russia. Like the Sel kup.
Something interesting is the indigenous people of the southern tip of South America the selk nam of Tierra del Fuego. I believe selk nam means something like the comunalfire people gathered around for survival.
@@timothyeachus7242 The Sami have DNA connected with people from Alaska, Northern Canada as well they've been in the northern hemisphere forever. They are a mixed bag from ancient times ( similar to The Basque ) Sami have been hearding reindeer, along with people from northern Canada and Alaska and Northern Russia since people etched petroglyphs into stone & prior. North American natives ( the lower 48 states ) knew of the Sami as reindeer herders.
The way I see it we're all indigenous, and none of us are indigenous. All of us are a mixed bag, there are no first of, specifically to one area of land. We are all the result of ever-changing people moving around the planet to survive from the past. 🔥
According to the readings of the Linear A signs based on the known Linear B equivalents, the Minoan ring inscription reads "Arene si [unknown]pikepaja ta [unknown]i te[unknown]mu aja[unknown]." "Mu" seems to be the only Linear B-analogy reading used by Dr Revesz in his reading and interpretation of the inscription. The idea that the much later Carian alphabet (C7-C1BCE) holds a clue to the pronunciation of some Linear A characters is intriguing, given that this alphabet exhibits some major differences from the Greek one from which it was apparently derived. However, a great deal more evidence needs to be presented for his proposed link between the Bronze Age Cretan and Iron Age Carian scripts, to say nothing of where the Carian language (which most accredited linguists place in the Anatolian branch of the Indo-European family) fits in to his Finno-Ugric Danube-to-Aegean hypothesis. Although Dr Revesz has been actively involved in attempts to decipher Minoan Linear B inscriptions for a number of years and has published in peer-reviewed journals, his academic credentials lie in the realm of computer science and data analysis rather than in archaeology and historical linguistics.
Been waiting for this. Huge fan of the Minoans.
me too!! have you been in akrotiri in santorini? it s a wonder, each time i go there i'm very moved.
@@sariputraa Man I’m so jealous. We had planned a big trip to travel to Rome and prehistoric sites in Greece and Turkey like Mycenae, Knossos, Akrotiri, Troy, Cattalhoyuk, and Hattusa. It was gonna be a big thing but we had to cancel everything cause of the pandemic. Can’t wait to try to do that again.
@@lugal-zage-si4782 the place will still be here, don't worry :) and the beautiful island too... Knossos is really not the same. it's mainly arthur evans fantisizing. a few parts of the site are interesting, and to see its dimensions, it's huge.... but Akrotiri is like pompei, so much more interesting to visit. it's almost like if they just went away....
@@sariputraa Do You mean Atlantis?
@Black Gawdz You are right, R1b1 peoples have come to Europe about 4 to 5000 BC, but R1a1 have come to Europe 7000 BC. And they have white skin.
I am going back to school at some point so I can publish my paper on the cultural influence of Neolithic and chalcolithic Iberian peoples over early Minoan civilization
When history’s mysteries start to unveil their secrets! The Minoan mystery is a favorite ancient history topic of mine. Thank you for blowing my mind!
Thank you, and Happy New Year. There will be more about the Minoans on my TH-cam channel.
When I was in Crete a few years ago I saw some wemen who could have been painted in ancient Knossos .
@Black Gawdz Your opinion.
@Black Gawdz hilarious. Please, don’t concern yourself with other peoples cultures if all you have to offer to the discussion is your brain-rotting woke trash.
@Black Gawdz prove it, If you say so
@Black Gawdz Have you ever asked yourselv why city Tebe has the same name as Egyptian Tebe?
@Black Gawdz Are you Goebels? Yoe just copy paste twice or three times the same. And Idea that they come from Greec to settled Greece? Anoying lol
It's poor form to criticize one researcher for a comparatively minor omission - while building your entire hypothesis on a major omission, i.e.: sole reliance on mtDNA and no mention at all of Y-DNA? Truly - this would have been a stronger case if Y-DNA was mentioned, but omitted entirely while starting with a negative critique of the other researchers? The researcher should be informed that operating this way is relying on the naivety of his audience. On nearly every count - that's a bad idea. Meanwhile the theory that there is a difference in people - actual ethnos - between "middle" and "late" Minoan appears to be critical to the hypothesis and - like the omission of Y-DNA and exclusive reliance on mtDNA - it's a pretty non-trivial point, but in 80 minutes the basis for this premise is never explained.
Great observation. If his theory is true it needs to be compared against a lot of evidence, especially because there are a lot of space and time between finno ugric people and the minoan civilization.
Very interesting. I certainly have heard of vowel drift. It's why English sounds so different in all it's areas.
It never occurred to me that in some languages this doesn't happen.
Being half Finnish, this was fun!
No ot is not, this theories are pathetic🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
Thank You!
So the Magyar migration to Hungary isn't a thing anymore ?
Just you wait, he will find evidence showing that all populations in europe are, in fact, descended from the mighty hungarians.
Would be a back migration.
Hungarian Carpathian Mountain basin is a bit of an extension of the euro-Asian steppes... There were rivers there for watering, and fields for grazing. so pasterol peoples that herded their animals all through out that steppe.. Basically who knows how many times they might have come, left, came, left etc... .... point is some guy would always discover those fields as fields to take his animals to, even if the previous group might had gotten sacked and massacred 20 years earlier probably or left for Crete who knows. That is why I'm curious about his thought on Yamnaya culture.
Haha! I was asking myself the same question. Magyars have some Finno Ugric dna in them, just like those pre Indo European people that had settled the Pannonian Basin thousands of years before. I hope he isnt confusing earlier aboriginal Finno Ugric dna with those of his Magyar ancestors.
I think Mr. Hern's point is that for a long time it's been believed that the Magyars originated on the central Asian steppes, moved west, and eventually settled in Pannonia (after absorbing a bunch of different peoples along the way). Dr. Revesz seems to be arguing that they originated in Pannonia.
Which seems not only silly, but dangerously close to some Orban-esque claims I've heard made by others.
This was really a wonderful introduction into the work of Dr. Revesz and his proposed origins of Minoan civilization, and its written and oral language antecedents through genetics, vowel harmony and other contributing factors. Thank you sir for your time and effort in putting together such a fine production. This is the first SAMA video I have watched. It won't be the last. I know that for certain. I also plan to watch Dr. Revesz's videos. I love his voice (and I'm part Hungarian, myself). A quick question: I know it's not strictly historical, but while on the subject of translations, have you ever done, or would you consider doing a video on the "Voynich Manuscript"? I have seen a few videos made by a father and his two sons who claim the puzzling manuscript was written in Old Turkic by someone who used phonetic spelling, because he was apparently unschooled in the proper spelling of words. They have translated whole pages of the book and their work is receiving the attention of serious scholars.
Sorting out the "what is what" by people with the knowledge not just gives you the AHA! but teach out how to get to the relevant konklusions. In times where most of us live by small and short sensations we all need to "get into things and the thinking".
It must be very satisfying to translate that ring which couldn't be read in the last 3600 years, give or take.
What an incredibly interesting episode. Gonna have to follow Peter Revesz, brilliantly researched and presented. Kudos to you both
Thanks for speaking more naturally. Sounds great!
About time we got to have this kind of information.
Amazing. Thanks
This is so soooo cool, thank you so much for putting this post together for us ✨🌟🤩!!!!
You’re most welcome! Thanks for watching and for enjoying what we do. Means the world!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I really enjoy your channel as I can see 10k’s of others do as well 😊!! Will you be doing a follow up to this post? It’s fascinating, but so controversial.
Inferring genetic origins of the Minoans from mtDNA haplogroups alone seems quite a stretch. The genomic data shows they are a mix of mostly Early European Farmer with minor amounts of Western Hunter Gatherer and Caucuses derived populations. There's no reliable way beyond pure speculation to infer a language grouping of Minoan until someone breaks the code of the Linear A writing system.
Very interesting and educational speech as
Before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age, non-Indo-European languages were spoken by farmers living in Europe. At the time of the Hungarian invasion in the 9th century, the number of warrior nomads arriving was only 5% of the number of farmers already living in the Carpathian basin. In addition, the arrivals were an alliance of 3 different language groups. So they could not bring the language known today as Hungarian to the Carpathian Basin.
For those who don't believe, I recommend:
Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, in his work The Geographical Formation of European Languages, recognizes Hungarian, which until now has been treated as a stepchild of Europe, as the founder of Europe's culture. According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe. "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age."
Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals in the IX. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction."
Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages.
Well done. Outstanding work. I always thought it would be a computer scientist who might crack Linear A. I hope we are close.
Finally!!! Someone who knows what they talking about! We Greeks, it's Hellens infact we call ourselves from really ancient times, knew that we came from sendral Europe and our language is quite old but of course no one ask us! There's no dought in our minds that we are here,in these lands since antiquity! Infact our alphabet came first and the phinicias took it from us! There are clear evidence in caves and in fragments of pottery with clear greek letters EKNH etc. from 6.000 years that conferm what we Hellens always knew! Thank you for putting things in order. The continuety of Greek art and most important the language from ancient times to this day is evident in all Greek lands and islands.
Your excellent intuition about the evolution of the alphabet is supported by the following paper (see Figures 2 and 3): www.naun.org/main/UPress/ami/2016/a182013-133.pdf
This was very comprehensive. thank you!
Bravo! You present yourself.DLF
Exploring this link to Asiatic language is interesting, but needs more confirmation from other sources.
Domingos CJM
I imagine Dr. Revesz feels much the same.
But the work in progress is intriguing. Hoping it continues and we are able to follow..
A Hungarian finds that the original Europeans were Hungarian. Not only that they created Europe's earliest civilization and the earliest writing system.
I think the people who moved into europe after the ice age adopted the language/culture of those already living there, while also slightly influencing it.
The egyptian migratory origin stories were right all along, but as different parts of europe started identifying among themselves instead of across the region, nativity became defined by those living there at the time, and the cultures that emerged from a specific area.
Peoplegroups are realistically only mutually recognizeable (both ethnically and culturally) for about 1000 years before regional identity, mutations and technology splits them from eachother.
At one point, there was a people migrating to Egypt, being the first recorded "sea peoples", but that people does not exist today because their ethnicity, technologic uniformity and identity has been erased or transformed into something entirely different.
Exactly. This is pure garbage science, and I am surprised to find it on this channel. Usually the owner of the channel takes great pleasure in debunking fringe claims such as this.
Very funny....
Stupid, right!
Kinda like how European researchers ALWAYS make findings that ancient archeological sites of Africa's Sahara, Nile Valley are Eurasian
What a massive breakthrough into understanding the context of early and middle Minoan societal evolution, and perhaps of ancient Eastern Europe! To connect the Finno Ugric to Linear A is tremendous. Now, to put that into context with the PIE from the East, we can paint a greater picture of late Copper/ early Bronze origins of near the entirety of modern Europe. Great work, and look forward to the translations to come!
Be careful, All manipulation
This isn't exactly a breakthrough. Nor does it seem particularly plausible. To connect Minoan/Linear A with Finno-Ugric languages simply because both of them use suffixes to change tense, meaning, etc. is to extrapolate from a coincidence.
Wow! Many thanks Professor for sharing your expertise!
What a great talk.
Thanks so much for the video and info.
I truly enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and for commenting!
"Beautifully supports"- That's called wishful thinking sir.
Well, I leave it up to you whether the art motifs beautifully or uglily support the theory, but they support the theory: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
Oh thank you! I had my doubts before, but now that you referred me to your *own* video which is based on your *own* research, I am totally convinced! It's amazing what can be uncovered with science when we are pursuing the truth and not pushing our own nationalistic agendas.
@@gmkar7766 It is a false accusation that I pursue a nationalistic agenda.
@@PeterRevesz Supporting a theory that no one else seems to even be aware of, with evidence so flimsy it's basically nonexistent, forcefully arranged in a way to support that theory, looks less like good science and more like you're trying very hard to prove something unlikely. I have to conclude that nationalism is the motivation because there is literally no other reason to think what you think, especially with other commenters mentioning that it sounds drawn right out of Orban's textbook.
Maybe you can enlighten me: what do you find so compelling about your theory that it absolutely must be the truth?
@@gmkar7766 Another implied accusation. I have nothing to do with Orban, and as a childhood immigrant myself, I never liked his anti-immigrant statements. If you really listened to my arguments in the video and read my journal articles and did not find them convincing, then I'm fine with it. What is not fine, however, is making unwarranted assumptions and accusations.
It's so interesting for non experts like me knowing from the original authors about their theories even when they are unconventional! Thanks for the episode.
Agreed! Thank you for watching this!
really interesting talk and daring hypotheses. I'll have to admit that I am one of the skeptical kind and for the danube basin being some kind of enduring finno-ugric language homeland, one would like to see a people group being attested to live there during the bronze and iron age speaking a language of that family. I would like to know if there are any contestants....
Could there be a link with the Cucuteni-Trypillia Culture? Just an idea....
We are from Siberia. Hungarians too, but we Finns and Hungarians are never been neighbours.
Finns and Same are from north Siberia, Hungarians south.
th-cam.com/video/9FuhLvyrZkQ/w-d-xo.html
A little sus that a Hungarian (especially someone that spent time in Greece) comes to the conclusion that Myceneans come from the Danube region and have ties to Finno-Hungric groups. Sorry if I don't buy this.
I would support that theory but we have to be careful with naming the nations. It is better talking of 'speakers' of that Indo-European language, rather than naming it 'Hungarians' or 'Minoan' etc. The steppe people moved from Asia near black sea to Danube, to Aegean and Anatolia. If one reads history of tribes, will find chaos when trying to identify them by names as these kept changing with occupation of new land, loss at war, attacks, migrations.
I don’t think that’s what he said my friend. Maybe you should listen a little harder and think a little bit deeper!
@@ellanguage9305 Hey Asimenia! Fancy meeting you here. I’m fascinated by this subject and never imagined that you had the same interest. I listened to Dr Revesz theory on the origins of Minoans and he seems to have something. What do you think?
@@hedylus i will inform you to participate in my presentation of my translation of the disk. As for Dr Revesz theory, we have to consider his views and I can not exclude the possibility that he is right but there is still more research to be done. For example we need to establish whether Luvian and Hatti languages, which were spoken in Anatolia and the lands that share same religious and architectural elements with that of Minoans, have any link with Hungarian and other Proto-Skavonic languages. I suspect they have. There was also a point that there was migration from Anatolia and from North of Greece back to Northern Europe such as to Poland, Hungary et other Balkans places. It could be that people from Danube river gave rise to the writing we saw in the 3rd Millennium in Mesopotamia, crete, Aegean etc. I am though sure of one thing: we need to keep re-writing history
@@ellanguage9305 Yes. I understand. His translation of the unknown Minoan language written in Linear A, seems correct. Can you fault him?If he is correct, this being the case, it has incredible similarities with Hungarian. His specialty seems to be in comparative analysis, so his skills to identify identical motifs in ancient Hungarian and in Finish & Suomi cultures, is an indicator, but his work in Hapla groups is amazing. By joining the two main groups in Central Europe just prior to the Middle Minoan period (his assertion) mathematically it produces the same group of DNA found in Crete, (presumably in the famous Cave he mentioned).
The connection with Danubian Civilization can be related to Getae, Dacians and Thracians, not with hungarians who came late in Europe Panonia with Hunic migration. All manipulation!
TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU......why some people love to glorify themselves!!??
Scythian
There are no Civilizations on the Danube!... no temples, palaces, Art or Writing. So who knows what substances you are smoking.
@@pankratoshellas183 If palace or temple means civilization, than you are poore on your knowlidge and brain. Civilization issurrelymore of that. And palace and temple could be destroyed. Just see the history of Chartagina and island Ruegen in Baltic. There were a lot of palace and temples which were destroyed.
And which civilization of Greeks was foundfrom 4500 BC? I think that you don`t need any substance. You are so dumb without them. LOL
don't forget illyrians :)
Are the Amazigh haplogoup U? and is this script connected to Harapan script at all? How does this fit with the megalithic culture that appeared in the 4th millennium? thanks
T. R. Pickerill, I feel it totally possible that the Minoans/Aegeans traded as far from their base as did Phoenicians and the later Vikings.
A good friend of mine found out that he had a genetic disease that only affected people from Finland and Malta. Now I know how that is possible
Boshevski and Tentov concluded that the Demotic script of the Rosetta stone was "indeed" Slavic but that doesnt mean they were right!
Thoroughly satisfied with this interview
and as that I recently got my DNA readout I understood things like haplo grouping & such 😀 😁 Minoans fascinate me , although we now know
that we actually don't know what they called themselves as that Minoa comes to us from a greek legend about a king named Minor ✅
Yes , my distant relative genetically spent a life time or two in Greece , probably part of the migration in Paleolithic times and I also decended
from way up north , sweedon . ..❤
Thanks so much 😍
No, we who researched know exactly: they were the Caphtorites and Caslukhites from which came Philistines
🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
Has his research been peer reviewed? If so, can it be shared here. Thanks
They were Proto Kartvelians, Proto Georgians. Phaistos disc was decoded. They were hunter gatherers and farmers from Anatolia, more specifically from Caucasus through Anatolia.
13:00 there were some ideas that the Germanic language had very early influence by the Finno-Ugric. Kalevi Wiik, a Finnish professor claimed that Uralic influence is what turned Proto-Indo-European into Proto-Germanic.
Also isn't it possible for only some of the languages of one family to have vowel harmony?
I see no problem for a people (be it Hungarian, or whoever) migrating first to the east, then millennia later migrating back west. Many Indo-European people did it. For example the Roma. Turkic people did this too, Arabs, and so on.
Huns used a Turkic alphabet, very similar to Hungarian. I think Huns are most definitely not the same people as Hungarians, however, the two peoples might have had some connections in Central Asia / Siberia / Eastern Europe region, begore they migrated further west.
Btw greetings from the lower Danube :)
For you last paragraph: Turks used Hungarian (Sekler’s) alphabet. Hungarians are descendants of the Huns (as well). As you wrote above: First migrating to the East, then a millennia later back to the West. Evidences in our genoms: R1a1a. However Asian Huns’ type are less in Hungarian’s blood.
@@1970coconut R1a is slavic , you have nothing to do with the huns and alphabet and runes were turkic . Szekler is turkic people too . Maghiars of the 9th century were a mixture of turkic and uralic people . So , go play ozosep at another table .
@@seaman5705 Who writes this kind of idiotism, that a type of haplogroup (R1a) equals to a nation (e.g. Slavic), that is a paranoid. Could it be in the other hand significant to some nations from the Turks to Magyars and Slavs, who have had derived from the Turanid Plain.
About Seklers. Noone knows their exact origin, but is sure they were not settled only in nowadays Romania. Siculi meaning in Hungarian as guards, they were settled at the borders. Not only the Eastern, but also all around parts. Even not sure that they were Turkic speaking. However Alans (Iazygi) were surely Turkic speaking. My paternal Grandpa told pamuk for cotton, as it is in Turkish. They spoke their language up to the XVII. century. This kind of Turkic-language-traces has never been found amongst Seklers, in spite of their relative isolation from the other Magyars.
@@seaman5705 And who wrote here about the IX. century Magyars? Prof Révész spoke about a pre Hellenic era, when some nowadays used Hungarian words could be derived from. These Magyars are not equals to Árpád-magyars, are 6000 yrs elders. This is the point, where Genetics and Computer science overwrite the previous dogmas.
@@1970coconut You wrote about 9th century magyars as descendants of the huns which I call bullshit . Same for the alphabet , which came from the turks , not szeklers - there is no szekler language anymore, all speak hungarian . Nobody identifies a DNA clade with a nation, but slavs as indo-europeans carried R1a which was passed to all Eastern Europe including today's hungarians . Prof Revesz invents a theory without even considering Y-DNA - heard it before slightly changed from other hungarians who claimed to be the scythians . Something similar with some greeks which claim to have come in Europe at 15000-18000 bc and to have created all civilization - minoan, mycenian and classic . So, one more idiot than the other .
I need to watch this again, so much information, and a lovely accent. 🙂
It all sounds so accurate, and it is if we keep the focus on genetics to simplify the variants. Then if we think of culture, it makes no sense at all. The Bronze Age folk of the Danube had nothing in common with Crete, maybe as a genetic link, but then they are using some samples from 15,000BC for their concrete argument... That gets dicey as the "M" haplogroup is really old.
Can you please tell me what the music is at the beginning of the video?
Dr Peter revesz is amazing he has found the origins of the linear-A script and he has linked it to fino-ugric language Hungarian and the caerian language of Anatolia to decipher the ancient Minoan script is not an easy job. If the phaitos disk is translated by him it will be a great 👍 achievement in human history.
The phaistos disk is translated and presented published by prof Geo, POLYMEROS ,as well clay and gold rings check out at TH-cam Anikti academia minoikon meleton some videos are in english as well in german
@@eftychiospardalakis7306 thank you for the info.
@@eftychiospardalakis7306 for the last 120 years there have been attempts to decipher the Phaistos Disk, all of the efforts I have come across were wrong due to the wrong approach. One mistake was copied by the second linguist and carried on. The disk has been deciphered. I have analysed its syllables, i have it translated in English and Greek with a thorough analysis and it will be presented soon. This gives inside to Proto-Greek as well as Slavonic relation.
A few years ago there was a presentation in Crete but attributing values to the syllables of the disk by guessing without justifying and without explaining the translation, it is not a decipherment at all. There is no hymn to a Cretan goddess. These are nonsense and guesses.
Hello, I am enjoying this , Dr. Revesz is one of 2 experts I have had some contact with , and we all basically agree on the Hungarian origin of Linear A .. It has all the same vowels as Sumerian , (ancient proto-Sumerian aka Vincan ...same letters).I knowthat you must , in able to decipher a language , you must know the Root language. I have found it to be Proto-Sumerian in origin . This does not contradict any of Peters' amazing research.actually the DNA he discusses as being of 2 types, the Anatolian then the Near East , Vinca is also known as Danubian.
The fact is , Sumerian s invented the vowels and the syllables all used in Linear A .That in itself shows these are directly related. (Japanese as well ,same vowel /consonant system of the Hittites , etc.)
I have over 60 letter matches of Proto-Sumerian linear to Linear A . As I found and proved the root language, I have worked on this for a few years .I run a FB group or 2 on the most ancient writing , Linear.
It was worldwide
I'm glad that you mentioned the Vincha script. There is a striking similarity between this script and the Rascian (aka Etruscan) script. Also, I've noticed that Mr. Revesz at one point mentioned some mysterious "old Hungarian alphabet" and I can only hope that he doesn't mean Vincha script by that.
@@aleksandarmilenkovic5861 I actually agree with Waddell , that the Phoenecians derived writing directly from Sumer, ancient alphabetic Egyptian and Hittite mainly..The Carians were a Phoenecian tribe acc. to his book on Sumerian origins of Writing.Also IMO Vincan is same thing as Proto-Sumerian , this would maybe , most likel;y actually, be now proven by dna , that Sumerians came to Crete maybe 5,000 or so years ago , and a lATER wave of peoples came a couple hiundred years later..Basically Wikipedia is totallyu wrong
So my other point , I think Etruscan is so close to Phoenecian as to say this is the same basic language of Linear letters , some are turned sideways as was common enough though., and before this Vinca, Sumerian pre-cuneiform linear formsare at the source of 85 percent or so of the letters I found in Linear A Minoan .The rest match Oriental , a few letters anyway. But these are usually matching ancient L:inear Sumerian .
I am so grateful for curious ambitions people who took the time to study and research and map out a comprehensive understanding of the ancients. I can just satisfy my curiosity by watching TH-cam videos lol. Awesome
The Danube Basin. However, earlier, it may have been more the cultures now sunken into today’s Black Sea. But, I have reasons to believe proto-Hungarian before the Black Sea inundation, originated in the Putoranskiy region towards the Sakha Republic in Northern Siberia. Defrosting of the tundra may prove me right, especially when we understand temporary poleshift better. Dieter L. Frischknecht / Rüschlikon, Switzerland.
I love this channel, and this video is by far one of the best ones I've seen on this channel! I'd love to have more videos just like this one. This is such controversial research and is at the very edge of our knowledge! I get that this rawer footage than normal, but the information shared about Linear A is groundbreaking. I hope his work can finally unlock the language we have been staring at in bewilderment for generations.
Your comment is truly kind and we appreciate your support. Thank you for your time and for truly enjoying what we do. Makes it all worth it.
@host....thanks for being patient with some of the angry posts. Even if there is nationalistic bias... The overall discussion about ancient linguistics is worth all time spent.
The Minoan language seems to be a relative of the anatolian neolithic Hattic language.
Hattic language is an agglutinative language like finnougric, but it uses prefixation instead of postfixation unlike the finnougric languages.
The idiom of Phaistos disc seems to be a relative of Hattic language
Language of the disc has reduplication of root (blocks A3, A15) and well elaborated prefixation; it means that Minoan can probably be relative of Anatolian languages...
www.researchgate.net/publication/320149693_The_idiom_of_Phaistos_disc_seems_to_be_a_relative_of_Hattic_language
The Hattic language does not belong to the Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. It is a pre-Indo-European language like Minoan. There is a great variation within the Finno-Ugric languages in terms of the number of prefixes they have. Hattic seems to have a large number of prefixes, but Hungarian also has a large number of prefixes. Hence being agglutinative but using prefixes does not exclude the possibility that Hattic is also a Finno-Ugric language. Several people made the observation that Hattic and Minoan are likely related languages, including Alexander Akulov, whom you cited. I also think that Hattic and Minoan are related languages. I completely agree with this idea as shown in one of my journal articles: www.wseas.org/multimedia/journals/information/2017/a605909-068.pdf
@@PeterRevesz Thank you for your reply. I hope you don't mind if I am skeptical regarding you theory.
I meant pre-indo-european by writing anatolian language. Perhapse I should write anatolic?
I speak natively Hungarian.
Beszélek magyarul és tudom, hogy a magyar a ragokat kedveli inkább, mint az előtagokat.
(I speak hungarian and I know that the Hungarian language prefers postfixes instead of prefixes)
Hungarian like other finnougric languages uses SVO word order - subject-verb-object.
Linera A seems to be VSO order (verb-subject-object). This is by Doctor Brent Davis, a linguist and archaeologist at the University of Melbourne on wikipedia inder the Minoan language.
Hattic language (non indo-european language) has also VSO order (wikipedia).
So Hattic could be related to the Minoan language.
There is also one interesing correspondence on paleolexicon:
zari [hattic] mortal, man Linear A sa-rja 'person' (?), often corresponding an ideogram for people
www.palaeolexicon.com/Hattic
There is a hattic god calles Están, which is in hittite (neshili indo-european language) Ishtanu. This is similar to Hungarian Isten, but could be derived from Yeniseian language.
You say that there was a break in Minoan culture. You are right.
At the end of the MMII period (1700 BC) there was a large disturbance on Crete-probably an earthquake, but possibly an invasion from Anatolia. The palaces at Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Kato Zakros were destroyed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization
Anitta (17. c BC) utterly destroyed and cursed the Hatti capital. The later Hittite kings had to completely rebuild the city. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piyusti
So perhaps the hittite (neshili) invasion caused mass immigration to Crete.
@@MDchan Brent Davis' analysis has some subtle problems that are too complex to describe here, but here are some more obvious problems: (1) The word order was not always SVO in Hungarian. (2) Using Linear B sound values for Linear A was an unfruitful exercise for the past 80 years. (3) There is no evidence that the Hattic people had any writing. Hence the Hattic people would be unlikely to have brought the Linear A script to Crete around 1700 BC (when it first appeared, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_chronology) even if it was about the same time when Hattusa was destroyed.
Interesting and surprising
There are even more interesting discoveries about the Minoans that you may like to see: th-cam.com/video/pW5mbJL4Xyo/w-d-xo.html
Dr. Revesz brings to bear the awesome tool of genetics to help him on hes research, will follow him but hopefully he'll be invited to this wonderful channel one more time
Sounds like a Hungarian version of Deretić. Very very speculative.
He's not wrong about the ruling elites/nobility of any given civilization often being from a "foreign" source & speaking a different language from those they ruled over. The Greek pharonic line of Ptolemy comes to mind. Interesting, I didn't know anyone had cracked Linear A yet. He seems very enthusiastic to talk about his work :)
@Black Gawdz cannanite Moors ruled this world for thousands of years they ruled by sea they enslaved every population they took over the word slave comes from slavics taken as slaves into north africa by the millions. Moors son's of Cush were Black they owned the first plantations in America and europeans were the first slaves, they had slave holding pens in Algiers Louisiana if you look on New Orleans police cars you can still see the star and crescent I could tell you more but you wouldn't believe me.
That's only true for middle east and europe
@@pinkyfinger9851 pretty sure it was true for Asia as well & parts of Africa. Humans have been migrating & expanding/conquering for a long time. Genetic testing is now able to trace ancient dna & the results are very interesting
RIP, Nick, and thank you.
Great video. Good work.
your spoiling us, cheers thanks. worthy of a Homer title of excellence
So all this is based on MtDNA Haplogroup U5. So from Spain to the Urals people spoke Finno-Ugric Languages during the Mesolithic. Wonder how the Vasconic Theorists will feel about this ?
There is nothing tidy about human journeys. My Scottish Grandma is U5, the oldest Mitochodrial DNA in Europe .Cynthia McLaglen
Ancient African populations of Northern Africa (Sahara, Mediterranian, Nile Valley) are habitually classified as Eurasian based on the presence of mitochondrial U5 on some of the female samples.
This is not science. It's racial tribalism.
@@ohlangeni MtDNA Haplogroup U6....Earliest upstream example found in Romania +-36000 years old...
@@richern2717 Yes meester. I know it is Eurasian. What is your point sir?
@@ohlangeni Yes I agree. Added some more info. The extreme timescale of some MtDNA Haplogroups basically shows that there were several Language Family transitions within one place within the same population over time. Australian Aboriginal Languages and Papua New Guinea Languages basically illustrate this....
"Sea Peoples" is just such a great name for a band.
Lol
what makes more sense is that they were descended from EEF's of Anatolian origin
This is very interesting, and this guy's theory sounds plausible. I hope people investigate it further.
This is some mind-blowing shit. Awesome video!!!
Thanks friend!
Very scholarly information. Explained in simple manner.
Study of Antiquity and the Middle Ages ( Nick) very nice video,!! A few comments on that Charalambos cave as i am a local from that place. .
Its a cavern located near the village Agios(saint) Charalambos on the Plateau of Lasithi / Greece Crete.
In our local traditions we used to call that cave Cronion Cave ( cave of Cronus).
We used to play in there as children recalling stories of older people saying that there they found "very old bones". (childrens imagination going wild!! haha )
Very few tourists go there as it is not known as a tourist attraction and the cavern is not open in depth there are no organized visits for tourists . ( a small part is visitable )
Some kilometers away is another cavern where according to ancient greek tradition Zeus was born and hidden there by his mother so Cronus could not eat him .
That one is fully open for public
The design mentioned also appears on irish archaeology
The Neolithic culture spread from Southeastern Europe to Western Europe and that spread may have carried with it some of the motifs. Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
The design mentioned could also be found in South America too....
@@anastasiachristakos2480 Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
Thanks for another great video share. This one looks very interesting.
Thanks for watching and for showing support!
There are words and names in Japan that are spelled and pronounced exactly the same way as Ibo language in Nigeria. There are names for women in Ibo with the same spelling and pronunciation as names for women in Japan. The meanings and significances are completely different, however. Etymology only helps if the people were close geographically, or there is a known genetic link. Because the human brain functions the same around the world, there will be similarities/ crossovers. This doesn't represent a direct lineage.
This man is a genius. No question about it.
Uh... might want to read some of the negative comments on this thread. You might rethink your assessment. I'm sure he's a terrific computer scientist, but maybe better stay in your swim lane.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well you may be right at least regarding the computer science aspect, that's what I was mostly focusing on. The use of the computer program in translating ancient languages is very well thought out.
@@vote4dahv411 , Well, maybe. I'm a tech layman, so I can't speak to his CS acumen. But I seem to remember an acronym from the early 90's: GIGO. As far as the analysis is concerned, he's putting in the data which may, spuriously, support (or appear to support) his hypothesis, and then when it comes out, hey presto, looks like he proved his case.
Nearest analogy I can think of this early in the morning is that you might as well set out to prove that chocolate is good for you. If chocolate's the only thing you analyze, sure, it'll show that it contains calcium and cacao has a few trace vitamins. But your overall conclusion will be wrong.
In short, this guy is trying to draw a connection between two completely disparate peoples on the flimsiest of bases, that both languages use suffixes to indicate case change. Well, cripes, so do most Slavic languages and about a zillion others. And most disturbingly, in doing so, he's advancing the case that the Hungarian ethnogenesis was in the Danube valley, which would validate the Magyars' claims to Pannonia (which isn't even in dispute).
This is pure pseudoscience, and worse, it's based on conscious lies. No one has deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to. The speakers of Finno-Ugric languages, including the Magyars, originated on the central Asian steppes. And the closest connection between the Minoans and the proto-Magyars is that both peoples had two nostrils.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well I wouldn't necessarily say it's pure pseudoscience. From the data I read it mostly suggests that the Proto-Minoan's at least spoke the language of the Proto-Hungarians. Not to say that you're wrong, I just know that languages which are close geographically, in particular trade languages, borrow words, phrases, and sometimes even grammar techniques, as can be found with many Semitic languages.
For me, I look at the quality of the translation of the Phaistos disk compared to previous ones and this is the most clear, (again my opinion) that we have so far. Given the context where it was found and using this methodology, it makes more sense than previous translations. Regarding the other arguments such as him promoting the ethnogenesis of Hungary that's an argument I'm not well versed in so I can't say either way.
@@vote4dahv411 , well, let's address those one by one.
No one knows if the "proto-Minoans" spoke the language of the proto-Hungarians, because no one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one knows what language family, if any, the Minoan language belonged to. It could very well have been an isolate. It's worth noting, moreover, that Michael Ventris, the guy who actually deciphered Linear B, believed that Linear A was connected to Etruscan, but he never claimed to have discovered any concrete connection. But there is zero reason to think that the languages are connected in any way.
Secondly, those languages were NOT close geographically. Revesz claims that the Hungarian ancestor language originated in the Danube basin, which is just completely wrong. No one else in the world thinks this, and the evidence that the Ugric languages originated in Central Asia is beyond overwhelming. There would have been zero contact between Ugric speakers and Minoan speakers. None.
Thirdly, the Phaistos disk has NOT been "translated." There have been zillions of claims to have translated it... all have been proved completely false.
Easter Island, Linear A, the Pyramids... all these ancient phenomena attract kooks. Whenever anyone, especially anyone outside the related disciplines, claims to have deciphered Linear A, nod politely, step back, make no sudden moves, and alert the authorities.