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This was very well detailed and thought out . Its very sad that most push the oneness and label a bread Mediterranean dna that avoide all details. We must be mature enough to learn details and the sensitive need to grow up.
I enjoyed this presentation, having seen another lecture of Dr. Revesz' a few months ago. Thank you for having him on! Has the method proposed by Dr. Revesz to establish a relationship between Linear A and the Carian script been used on another family of scripts, like, say, South and Southeast Asian scripts from Brahmi, etc.? It could strengthen the case that the algorithm is sound when used in this context. It's definitely interesting to see in action a method that derives from a more purely-computational approach and not rely as on historical linguistic data.
Was wondering if you ever have a follow up discussion with Dr. Revesz if he could provide clarification on consequences of this shift in Finno-Ugric urheim, does he think that the Hungarian language remained in situ in Pannonia, or does he think it originated in the Danube delta, migrated to the Ural mountain region, and then returned with the Magyar invasions of the Middle Ages?
Unfortunatly this does have a strong ring of Hungarian nationalism. The fact that the modern Hungarian population have some DNA from the mesolithic population does not in any way mean that the Fino ugaric languages originate there. If that were the case then every modern European language could claim to originate in mesolithic Europe, as most Europeans carry some mesolithic DNA from the European hunter gatherer popultion of the time, due to the migrants breeding with the local populations.
You are right. It is just idea of Victor Orban about great Hungary. In our country we have three mainHP groups R1a1, I2a and R1b1. As Hungarian have conquered our ancestor in Pannonia, they have got also our HP groups. That is idiot theory. To steal from other to claim as their DNA. Most of citizens in Hungary are Slavs and old natives.
It's dangerous to try to make too many conclusions about language from genes. History has shown many times that genes and language doesn't necessarily walk the same paths.
@@bojanstare8667 That is not a political idea- that is gaslighting people with lies- just like Erdogan with Turkey. The Turks say that Homer was a Turk and many other fairytales.
You may find more discussion about Linear A and related ancient scripts in my video "The development and role of symmetry in ancient scripts": th-cam.com/video/XVWa0WEn-e0/w-d-xo.html
Right? I am surprised honestly at this video and why the owner of the channel is not being more critical. usually he takes great pleasure in debunking fringe hypothesises
@@ebbelille well, this isn't presented as a fringe theory, until comparison with some "Uralo-Altaic" cultural constrsucts of much later times AND the, well, professor' Revesz's origins, make some alarm bell sound.
Note that there was no discussion of Y-DNA during the same periods. I can go along with him, up to a point. But ...when *any* researcher stars cherry picking data? I'm no longer listening. Moving on... ;)
I may have to watch again, but from what I remember, he just said that there were royal dynasties with Mongolian DNA, while the people they ruled over had Finno-Urgic DNA. This is not surprising at all.
Are there historians that support this theory, as this just sounds like he was specifically looking for Hungarian connection with Minoans, not an actual origin of them?
The fact he translated a text is pretty strong LOL... and the reasoning that traveling down the Black sea coast, then island hopping southward towards Crete is a far better path than traveling across open water from anywhere else in the Meditteranean. Especially in the old ships.
@@MarkVrem More like ''translated'', this is a completely bogus theory, if a Greek archaeologist was out with the same theory about the double axe carvings found in UK you would all be at his throat.
Dr Revesz, it occurred to me that your hypothesis may also help explain some mysterious bronze-age trade connections. Specifically, the abundant use of Baltic amber in ancient Egypt and the presence of bronze goods from Sardinia in northern Europe. Perhaps people migrated south following a trade route.
Some of the earliest mines in Europe were in Hungary. There were Lead mines there very early, 2-3000 BC and other metal mines , possibly Tin, mines later on. Tin was in short supply in the later bronze age as middle eastern supplies became scarce, like Lithium is today. The trade routes then spread through France to Englands Tin mines later on in the Bronze age- but still very early in European pre history. The European trade routes were found along with bell shaped beakers so naming the Bell Beaker people who were the earliest organized traders. They appeared to be from or trading through to Mesopotamia and the greater middle east. Those trade routes were later serviced by sea through Phonecian traders making landfall at their main ports like Bilbos. At some point probably rival Cretian, Carthiginian and/or even European seafarers came along. Sardinian culture predates them all. Early British legands trace their origins in part to Trojan seafarers with family ties to Etruscans. Tintagle Castle in Wales guarded a tin mine and port where early Mediterranean trade goods have been found. Everyone loves to cut out the middle man! If your traveling down the Danube or across the Alps selling your metal goods to someone at a Mediterranean port, curiosity gets the better of you as to whether you can make more money trading further along the route. In tracing my family from the Brittish royalty to France and finally Luxembourg, I was suprised to see those ancient routes emerging. Luxembourg ruled Crete! Thats a bit of a spread except as a trade route. I was also tracing the legends of family origins stemming from Melusine. Those legends led directly to those same areas. Later on in the Crusades, the Luxembourg royal family was ruling Jerusalem. It was like seeing a backwards forwards rise and fall of rule and trade linked by family ties. What started with the middle easts quest for metals especially Tin, may have run through different routes, either through mountain passes like Luxembourg or through the Danube to get to Englands Tin supply. Trading families often rise to become ruling families. They set up trading centers along the routes and tax or toll commerce. They then strengthen ties along trade routes through marriage to secure rights to trade. We have had to guess these relations through religion, legends, artistic motifs, grave goods and especially language in the past. Now genetics is coming into play. It may not show the whole picture since rulers can be from far off as in Luxembourg ruling Jerusalem for a thin slice of time, but it certainly adds to the tapestry of understanding the pre written history! Early European prehistory was hugely influenced by the search and trade of Metals. A minority of traders from far off lands in the middle east most likely came to rule through intermarriage into the local tribes. The local Celtic tribes then took up the trade. Their ox carts rolled from Switzerland (where early mines were manned by slaves), across France and finally crossed to England before writing had even emerged in Europe. To show the scope of what an oxcart can do, a few thousand years later ancestors of the same European people forded or floated ox carts across rivers, cutting trails over land as they went, through mountain passes to travel across the American wilderness-in a season or two! Ox carts with ancient Europeans were found in the Gobi desert in China. Europeon Scythian tribes people from Anatolia ( but probably scandanavians), crossed over to Mongolia. They then came to rule China and later moved back again under Ghengis Khan to reconquer everything up to and even a bit further into Europe. Those people and others were possibly related to the original metal traders out of the early Hungarian mines. Those were the people who first harnessed oxen and later horses to carts to move goods and people long distances. That may have been driven by trade in heavy goods like metals. Later shipping was used to move heavy metals spurring trade in all goods. The Ox cart peddlers were still in business in America as "Yankee Peddlers" and " Nutmeggers" after buying goods at port cities to be moved inland.
Finally!!! Someone who knows what they talking about! We Greeks, it's Hellens infact we call ourselves from really ancient times, knew that we came from sendral Europe and our language is quite old but of course no one ask us! There's no dought in our minds that we are here,in these lands since antiquity! Infact our alphabet came first and the phinicias took it from us! There are clear evidence in caves and in fragments of pottery with clear greek letters EKNH etc. from 6.000 years that conferm what we Hellens always knew! Thank you for putting things in order. The continuety of Greek art and most important the language from ancient times to this day is evident in all Greek lands and islands.
Your excellent intuition about the evolution of the alphabet is supported by the following paper (see Figures 2 and 3): www.naun.org/main/UPress/ami/2016/a182013-133.pdf
What an amazing man Dr Peter Revesz is! So much detail had to be sorted out and critically examined. So many genetics, and peoples had to be found and others rejected to just begin to see some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hun, Turkish to see the symbols found in masses imagery and the sounds found out' so many languages understood. Absolutely marvellous! So much still to do and exciting discoveries! Cynthia McLaglen
Wellllllllll... yeah, there are going to be some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hunnic and Turkic, because they all originated in the same area. There's some debate as to whether they're genetically related (i.e., springing from the same root), but there's little serious debate that they all came from central Asia.
It is easy to smile at a Hungarian finding Hungarian links with the ancient Minoans, however, to be fair, they are mainly with Finnis and early settlers along the Danube. For me, it is not all that important whether, or not, it is eventually proved to be the final, correct answer. What I cannot deny is that there are 14 sensible translations resulting from this approach and that, if wrong, it will crash against the hundreds of yet-to-be-translated ones. So, we can let the scientific method be the final arbiter. In the meantime, I thank both of you for presenting this careful and respectful piece of Scholarship.
Honestly i don't understand why people are reeing about "muh nationalism" the links with Finni-ugaric are pretty clear, and I'm pretty sure in the entire video all he says is that they are related languages, this isn't a new idea, or even an odd idea, Hungarian has been noted to be very different from any nearby languages since people even bothered to care.
All he said was it suggested vowel harmony, a feature of many unrelated languages, but it may eliminate some, thus narrowing the search. Very interesting, but hardly a huge claim to get triggered over. A lot of this type of research, is educated guessing, slivers of facts, following clues, to see if the trail goes somewhere or hits a wall. Basically, he's just testing some ideas, and that's perfectly fair.
Thank you somebody’s still woke. Invest in your interest and do your own work not just homework. If you don’t see it or know what you’re looking at it’s all hearsay. Mostly speculation. They’re really not talking anyway.
@@macvena Well, he's also making some claims that are a little silly, to say the least. No one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to without a Mycenaean-Minoan Rosetta stone, and every "breakthrough translation" of the Phaistos disc (the authenticity of which, by the way, is debatable) contradicts the previous one. Likely no one has figured it out. I hate to go into ad hominems here, but sometimes they're useful. Strikes me as slightly sus that a computer scientist, not a linguist, geneticist, or historian has made this remarkable discovery... and it's even more eyebrow-raising that a Hungarian would claim that the first European civilization was actually the creation of proto-Hungarians. Add it all up, couple it with the weakness of the "evidence" (which is pretty much entirely circumstantial), and you have a proposition which I think can be safely ignored.
I hope we all realize his decipherment creates a readily understandable logically inscribed statement, with a proven repeatable method. These aren't one off translations. Dr. Revesz is a professor of computational linguistics which is exactly what it sounds like a well developed complex, and rapidly evolving field which utilizes toolkits which overlap with a modern geneticist. Computational linguistics can very well be seen and understood as a supplement to computational biology as well as an independent field. I would suggest digging a little deeper into his other posted chats, videos, regarding the minoans; if you're not satisfied you should check out some current lectures on the different theories of human migration that are out there. His publications are not outliers. If you're a language guy, check out the recent developments on the deciphering of the indus valley script. It utilizes similar strategies.@@jimpalmer2981
Interesting but I remain unconvinced until he can cross check several translations and they prove to make sense. He makes a case, but only presents one example which may be biased by his Hungarian / fino ugric affinity... which could also be the angle for a breakthrough for sure... but comparison, peer review, and others attempting translations based on his hypothesis is needed.
This is the first translation breakthrough of Minoan script that I've seen. The derived meaning on the scripted bridal ring sounds so personally authentic. Thank you for sharing this discussion. It's inspiring to see this line of research.
Minoans Language is one form of Greek language the inscrepsion of linear is not different language from greek but one form of writing of ancient Greek with Greek root of word
A little sus that a Hungarian (especially someone that spent time in Greece) comes to the conclusion that Myceneans come from the Danube region and have ties to Finno-Hungric groups. Sorry if I don't buy this.
I would support that theory but we have to be careful with naming the nations. It is better talking of 'speakers' of that Indo-European language, rather than naming it 'Hungarians' or 'Minoan' etc. The steppe people moved from Asia near black sea to Danube, to Aegean and Anatolia. If one reads history of tribes, will find chaos when trying to identify them by names as these kept changing with occupation of new land, loss at war, attacks, migrations.
@@ellanguage9305 Hey Asimenia! Fancy meeting you here. I’m fascinated by this subject and never imagined that you had the same interest. I listened to Dr Revesz theory on the origins of Minoans and he seems to have something. What do you think?
@@hedylus i will inform you to participate in my presentation of my translation of the disk. As for Dr Revesz theory, we have to consider his views and I can not exclude the possibility that he is right but there is still more research to be done. For example we need to establish whether Luvian and Hatti languages, which were spoken in Anatolia and the lands that share same religious and architectural elements with that of Minoans, have any link with Hungarian and other Proto-Skavonic languages. I suspect they have. There was also a point that there was migration from Anatolia and from North of Greece back to Northern Europe such as to Poland, Hungary et other Balkans places. It could be that people from Danube river gave rise to the writing we saw in the 3rd Millennium in Mesopotamia, crete, Aegean etc. I am though sure of one thing: we need to keep re-writing history
@@ellanguage9305 Yes. I understand. His translation of the unknown Minoan language written in Linear A, seems correct. Can you fault him?If he is correct, this being the case, it has incredible similarities with Hungarian. His specialty seems to be in comparative analysis, so his skills to identify identical motifs in ancient Hungarian and in Finish & Suomi cultures, is an indicator, but his work in Hapla groups is amazing. By joining the two main groups in Central Europe just prior to the Middle Minoan period (his assertion) mathematically it produces the same group of DNA found in Crete, (presumably in the famous Cave he mentioned).
Hello, proposed Proto-Ugric homeland in Danubian valley sounds super strange. Proto Uralic (Ugric is a daughter branch) has a lot of words for northern coniferous trees, so much more northeastern homeland seems more plausible (near Ural mountains). I feel Minoans being of European neolithic ancestry (ancestors of farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Danube valleys) sounds logical, but why should they be Ugric? What is known from Eteocretan language it looks more like related to Etruscan and Lemnian (Tyrsenian).
@@beakfordclakington1337 Hello, it was proposed by Dr. Revesz in the video, I fear there is not much of a scientific support for this idea. Have a nice day
@@favero4446 absolutely agree. Also to all who missed it: the Danube/Carpathian basin where, according to this gentlemen, pretty much EVERYthing originates also happens to be the place where his birthplace Hungary is. How convenient.
It's poor form to criticize one researcher for a comparatively minor omission - while building your entire hypothesis on a major omission, i.e.: sole reliance on mtDNA and no mention at all of Y-DNA? Truly - this would have been a stronger case if Y-DNA was mentioned, but omitted entirely while starting with a negative critique of the other researchers? The researcher should be informed that operating this way is relying on the naivety of his audience. On nearly every count - that's a bad idea. Meanwhile the theory that there is a difference in people - actual ethnos - between "middle" and "late" Minoan appears to be critical to the hypothesis and - like the omission of Y-DNA and exclusive reliance on mtDNA - it's a pretty non-trivial point, but in 80 minutes the basis for this premise is never explained.
Great observation. If his theory is true it needs to be compared against a lot of evidence, especially because there are a lot of space and time between finno ugric people and the minoan civilization.
mt DNA is easier (and more reliable) to get from ancient samples, therefore, there are many many more of mt DNA data than Y DNA (which are more fragmented). As the number of ancient Y DNA samples grow more chance will be to find connections. Until then this suffices.
You could think of Italy as well, when first the Goths and then the Lombards (after the terrible Justinian Pest that left half the country unhabited) and finally the Franks took over and established their own feudal reign. And yet, as in France and Spain, the language remain Romance and an evolution of Latin Vulgar. unless the mass of the newcomers totally displaces the old population, it is usually intermixing and adopting the pre existent costumes. "IF" the idea of a Ugro-Finnic linear A is possible, it makes sense that, on the isle of Crete, an isolated, depleted (After the Akrotiri disaster) and vastly outnumbered culture gave way to the indoeuropean "Greek" absorption, especially because we know it was a full scale invasion with huge reserves of population migrating form the mainland.
Except that he errs. Old English (Beowulf) is unreadable except to scholars treating it as a separate language. There are all kinds of intricacies that are stripped away by the time Chaucer writes 300 years after the Norman bastard (Tom Paine's assessment) usurped the throne. With some glossary help, he's readable. His contemporary (The Pearl Poet), probably a couple hundred miles from London is still a huge challenge. London's Middle English won out. Along the way, there were also vowel shifts and other changes in pronunciations. To take Linear A, assign it pronunciations with a Carian alphabet 1,100 years its junior, and then translate it into modern Hungarian (3,700 years removed from the original) is a stretch even before realizing the changes Hungarian experienced through the millennia -- before the Huns arrived in Europe in the fifth century. (There's just too much testimonial evidence to ignore.)
Britain had Roman, Irish, Norwegian, Danish and Dutch rulers, as well as the Normans. Our current King Charles is of German heritage. The only foreign rulers who really changed the language were the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who brought us a language which was close to Friesian, and evolved into English. By no means do the languages of conquerors automatically become the languages of their subjects. Not only that: Until about 400 years ago most English people had no access to literature in their own language. Property deeds and wills were written in Latin, the Bible was in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic, Mathematics was studied in Greek or Latin, History and Medicine in Latin, and diplomacy was conducted in French. A hundred years earlier, writing religious texts in English was a crime - Lollardy - the punishment for which was to be thrown into a pit of fire. Yet English prevailed. Since then, we spread English through the British Empire. We've given that up, but English is now the Lingua Franca of academia, commerce and law throughout the world - much a the ProtoIndoEuropean language was once spoken by many who have no connection to Britain whatsoever. The adoption of foreign language for its utility prevails: The Republic of Ireland has been promoting Irish Gaelic relentlessly in its education system, government institutions, libraries and arts for over a century - yet a smaller proportion of its population speak Irish today than when Ireland won independence from British rule. In Pakistan, Urdu is the language of poetry, Arabic is the language of religion, and English is the language of commerce. Thus the preferred languages of countries are less connected to their governance than to their utility. As this has been so for English across 1,600 years, so it is likely to have been for other languages across millennia - and Peter Revesz' scientific evidence concurs.
Hungarian Carpathian Mountain basin is a bit of an extension of the euro-Asian steppes... There were rivers there for watering, and fields for grazing. so pasterol peoples that herded their animals all through out that steppe.. Basically who knows how many times they might have come, left, came, left etc... .... point is some guy would always discover those fields as fields to take his animals to, even if the previous group might had gotten sacked and massacred 20 years earlier probably or left for Crete who knows. That is why I'm curious about his thought on Yamnaya culture.
Haha! I was asking myself the same question. Magyars have some Finno Ugric dna in them, just like those pre Indo European people that had settled the Pannonian Basin thousands of years before. I hope he isnt confusing earlier aboriginal Finno Ugric dna with those of his Magyar ancestors.
I think Mr. Hern's point is that for a long time it's been believed that the Magyars originated on the central Asian steppes, moved west, and eventually settled in Pannonia (after absorbing a bunch of different peoples along the way). Dr. Revesz seems to be arguing that they originated in Pannonia. Which seems not only silly, but dangerously close to some Orban-esque claims I've heard made by others.
47:00 Did he cherry-pick some Linear A signs to match the Carian script or he actually had other valid criteria for choosing just those 30 or so signs? How do they relate to Phaistos disc? Seems like a completely different script than the one on the disc
That water motif is found in ancient Egyptian symbolism where there is a circle that Nut is astride with two jackals facing wavy water symbols, the left jackal touching the water with his paw. This was borrowed by the Boetians with a pair of male and female wolves, left with ithyphalic symbol and right with scallop/oyster female symbol. The male reaching up to touch the water pouring from Artemis' dress that has a fish symbol. This symbolizes taking a path with the water being emotional and mental in nature.
According to my observation, the water motif originated from the Fertile Crescent and spread from there to Europe during the Neolithic. It is not surprising that the water motif occurs in ancient Egypt because it is part of the Fertile Crescent.
Egyptian, exactly, not Finnic))) I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
That was amazing! Also, it was mentioned at some point the subject was controversial. Could you do an interview with another viewpoint, and then a debate? I think it could be super interesting
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 hey hungarian, YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MINOANS! YOU ARE TURKIC NATION SUCH AS THE FINNS, which are not Scandinavians! Urban's nationalism theory makes you brainwashed.
@@PeterRevesz so thrilled to find your work on Linear A . I have 2 programmer sons one is thinking of transferring to UNL Computer sci. when he has "cached " enough to return to school. Such a Great triangulation approach to the problem . I'm an alumna, BFA. The art motif + dna + linguistic forensics+ were thrilling since I'm an antiquities / archeology lover. Mid - Late bronze. I was catching up on the last 30 years of Levantine excavations of the costal Pentapolis. OI, Harvard digs .... When I bumped into your work . Ooolahh lah! I have a lingering affection for egyptology also. 👏👏 Really enjoyed the interview on TH-cam SAMA
@@LMCLTV84 Thank you, it's nice to meet you online. My first interest in archaeology was Egyptology too. Please join my you TH-cam channel under my name if you are interested in learning more details. If your son comes to UNL, I'd be glad to meet him. Go Big Red!
@@PeterRevesz Will do. You forgot to supply the link but I'm sure I can hunt it down at which point I will subscribe. I was interested in some of the pushback that is obvious to what you are finding. Most of it, one way or another, is an appeal to authority (what previous 'experts' have said). Usually going with the previous experts is a bad idea. I'm sure you are aware that at one time Sir Arthur Evans, the excavator of the Palace at Knossos, was considered the 'expert' on Linear B (and possibly Linear A as well). He couldn't decipher Linear B but made a pronouncement that whatever language it represented IT WAS NOT Greek. I really wish he would have lived long enough to be told by Michael Ventris, the co-decipherer of Linear B that yes indeed Linear B was ancient Greek! So, I wish you luck in your endeavours to find the language behind Linear A. I hope I live long enough to hear that announcement.
@@mhorram I appreciate. The story that you wrote shows that archaeologists and classicists were not better qualified to decipher Linear B than architects.
12:52 The dear Professor just missed to mention the BASQUES in South-West France and in North-West Spain who are also based on the Mezolitc group he had mentioned so correctly.
And probably they are the only remaining population so close related to the mesolithic populations. The dear professor seems to be forcing alot of elements in order to fit his nationalistic narrative
It seems that the U5 mtDNA haplogroup split into two old groups within Europe. While Basques and Finno-Ugric groups share the U5 haplogroup, Basques have almost exclusively U5b lineages (U5b1f, U5b1c1, U5b2) not the U5a1 lineage shown on the map in the video.
@@joek600 Dr. Révész has not stated such a sentence. He only demonstrated a logical way, how to ‘crack’ Minoan script linear A. Then there is another question, which language changed the less from the bronze-age.
@@christopherellis2663 Basically true since the Celts when they got to the islands did not killed off the original population ther but mostly intigrated them into their society. Of course there are other opinions but this on seems to be the most reasonalble since the gen material of those ancient people turns up so often in the British population
The connection with Danubian Civilization can be related to Getae, Dacians and Thracians, not with hungarians who came late in Europe Panonia with Hunic migration. All manipulation!
@@pankratoshellas183 If palace or temple means civilization, than you are poore on your knowlidge and brain. Civilization issurrelymore of that. And palace and temple could be destroyed. Just see the history of Chartagina and island Ruegen in Baltic. There were a lot of palace and temples which were destroyed. And which civilization of Greeks was foundfrom 4500 BC? I think that you don`t need any substance. You are so dumb without them. LOL
Sapmi stretches from Norway in the west, including Sweden, and to the east; western Russia, and yes northern Finland. The biggest Sami concentration is in Norway and Sweden. Plenty of ancient and indigenous cultures share similar art motifs, as seen in pottery, textiles, and even tattoos. Especially if taken from nature and the stars. Doesn't mean it's the same, nor that it is connected! The ancestors of the Sami mixed with the already existing populations that had been in Scandinavia since the last Ice Age. They were a hunter and gatherer society. Later they also did farming. But it's kinda farfetch to think that the Same Finno Ugric people went south and created the Minoan civilization that are completely different in basically anything! Like if that's the case then I must be related to Berbers, and Baltic people, because they share the same tattoo motifs (also used in textiles), as my tribe in the Philippines, as well as other Austronesian and Polynesian people. Which is of course BS... Lol we even have the same water motif!
I feel it more likely that the farflung trade corridors of the Aegeans carried them to distant corners where many settled and survived even as the core of their world collapsed.
Actually, there are native New Zealanders who have family histories of being descendants of Persians and when the dna tests came out it was very true. (among other unexpected and far stretched connections). Not as likely bs as some would have us believe.
The Sami are just part of the story. As to are the indiginous people from North Central Russia. Like the Sel kup. Something interesting is the indigenous people of the southern tip of South America the selk nam of Tierra del Fuego. I believe selk nam means something like the comunalfire people gathered around for survival.
@@timothyeachus7242 The Sami have DNA connected with people from Alaska, Northern Canada as well they've been in the northern hemisphere forever. They are a mixed bag from ancient times ( similar to The Basque ) Sami have been hearding reindeer, along with people from northern Canada and Alaska and Northern Russia since people etched petroglyphs into stone & prior. North American natives ( the lower 48 states ) knew of the Sami as reindeer herders. The way I see it we're all indigenous, and none of us are indigenous. All of us are a mixed bag, there are no first of, specifically to one area of land. We are all the result of ever-changing people moving around the planet to survive from the past. 🔥
@Black Gawdz hilarious. Please, don’t concern yourself with other peoples cultures if all you have to offer to the discussion is your brain-rotting woke trash.
Excellent video, but I am very disappointed by the prejudice shown against Peter Revesz in the comments. Many are most shamefully disrespectful, and reflect badly on their authors. They say it is because he is Hungarian, but I suspect that it because they consider that data analysts ought not to be so arrogant as to tread on the toes of 'proper' historians. I encountered something similar in History of Art when I demonstrated that the paintings of David were composed using harmonic schemata. So here's a pejorative word for Peter's critics from British history: 'Luddites'. Thanks to Peter for his endeavour and tenacity. Respect, Dr. Revesz, and thank you for a clear explanation of advanced techniques. You, Sir, are a steely-eyed rocket-man of linguistic analysis.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I really enjoy your channel as I can see 10k’s of others do as well 😊!! Will you be doing a follow up to this post? It’s fascinating, but so controversial.
@@sariputraa Man I’m so jealous. We had planned a big trip to travel to Rome and prehistoric sites in Greece and Turkey like Mycenae, Knossos, Akrotiri, Troy, Cattalhoyuk, and Hattusa. It was gonna be a big thing but we had to cancel everything cause of the pandemic. Can’t wait to try to do that again.
@@lugal-zage-si4782 the place will still be here, don't worry :) and the beautiful island too... Knossos is really not the same. it's mainly arthur evans fantisizing. a few parts of the site are interesting, and to see its dimensions, it's huge.... but Akrotiri is like pompei, so much more interesting to visit. it's almost like if they just went away....
Well, I leave it up to you whether the art motifs beautifully or uglily support the theory, but they support the theory: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
Oh thank you! I had my doubts before, but now that you referred me to your *own* video which is based on your *own* research, I am totally convinced! It's amazing what can be uncovered with science when we are pursuing the truth and not pushing our own nationalistic agendas.
@@PeterRevesz Supporting a theory that no one else seems to even be aware of, with evidence so flimsy it's basically nonexistent, forcefully arranged in a way to support that theory, looks less like good science and more like you're trying very hard to prove something unlikely. I have to conclude that nationalism is the motivation because there is literally no other reason to think what you think, especially with other commenters mentioning that it sounds drawn right out of Orban's textbook. Maybe you can enlighten me: what do you find so compelling about your theory that it absolutely must be the truth?
@@gmkar7766 Another implied accusation. I have nothing to do with Orban, and as a childhood immigrant myself, I never liked his anti-immigrant statements. If you really listened to my arguments in the video and read my journal articles and did not find them convincing, then I'm fine with it. What is not fine, however, is making unwarranted assumptions and accusations.
Was it made before it was found out ,that Sir. Evans was actually repainting famous frescos in Knossos palace and other historic artefacts . Its not mentioned ?
It's so interesting for non experts like me knowing from the original authors about their theories even when they are unconventional! Thanks for the episode.
Are the Amazigh haplogoup U? and is this script connected to Harapan script at all? How does this fit with the megalithic culture that appeared in the 4th millennium? thanks
I love this channel, and this video is by far one of the best ones I've seen on this channel! I'd love to have more videos just like this one. This is such controversial research and is at the very edge of our knowledge! I get that this rawer footage than normal, but the information shared about Linear A is groundbreaking. I hope his work can finally unlock the language we have been staring at in bewilderment for generations.
@host....thanks for being patient with some of the angry posts. Even if there is nationalistic bias... The overall discussion about ancient linguistics is worth all time spent.
Does the Etruscan language feature vowel harmony? It seems like something related to it would be one of the stronger alternative contenders for the language spoken by the Minoans
The Etruscan language does not have front-back vowel harmony. Here is an Etruscan word list where you can check this statement: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Etruscan_word_list
This was really a wonderful introduction into the work of Dr. Revesz and his proposed origins of Minoan civilization, and its written and oral language antecedents through genetics, vowel harmony and other contributing factors. Thank you sir for your time and effort in putting together such a fine production. This is the first SAMA video I have watched. It won't be the last. I know that for certain. I also plan to watch Dr. Revesz's videos. I love his voice (and I'm part Hungarian, myself). A quick question: I know it's not strictly historical, but while on the subject of translations, have you ever done, or would you consider doing a video on the "Voynich Manuscript"? I have seen a few videos made by a father and his two sons who claim the puzzling manuscript was written in Old Turkic by someone who used phonetic spelling, because he was apparently unschooled in the proper spelling of words. They have translated whole pages of the book and their work is receiving the attention of serious scholars.
Before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age, non-Indo-European languages were spoken by farmers living in Europe. At the time of the Hungarian invasion in the 9th century, the number of warrior nomads arriving was only 5% of the number of farmers already living in the Carpathian basin. In addition, the arrivals were an alliance of 3 different language groups. So they could not bring the language known today as Hungarian to the Carpathian Basin. For those who don't believe, I recommend: Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, in his work The Geographical Formation of European Languages, recognizes Hungarian, which until now has been treated as a stepchild of Europe, as the founder of Europe's culture. According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe. "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age." Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals in the IX. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction." Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages.
13:00 there were some ideas that the Germanic language had very early influence by the Finno-Ugric. Kalevi Wiik, a Finnish professor claimed that Uralic influence is what turned Proto-Indo-European into Proto-Germanic. Also isn't it possible for only some of the languages of one family to have vowel harmony? I see no problem for a people (be it Hungarian, or whoever) migrating first to the east, then millennia later migrating back west. Many Indo-European people did it. For example the Roma. Turkic people did this too, Arabs, and so on. Huns used a Turkic alphabet, very similar to Hungarian. I think Huns are most definitely not the same people as Hungarians, however, the two peoples might have had some connections in Central Asia / Siberia / Eastern Europe region, begore they migrated further west. Btw greetings from the lower Danube :)
For you last paragraph: Turks used Hungarian (Sekler’s) alphabet. Hungarians are descendants of the Huns (as well). As you wrote above: First migrating to the East, then a millennia later back to the West. Evidences in our genoms: R1a1a. However Asian Huns’ type are less in Hungarian’s blood.
@@1970coconut R1a is slavic , you have nothing to do with the huns and alphabet and runes were turkic . Szekler is turkic people too . Maghiars of the 9th century were a mixture of turkic and uralic people . So , go play ozosep at another table .
@@seaman5705 Who writes this kind of idiotism, that a type of haplogroup (R1a) equals to a nation (e.g. Slavic), that is a paranoid. Could it be in the other hand significant to some nations from the Turks to Magyars and Slavs, who have had derived from the Turanid Plain. About Seklers. Noone knows their exact origin, but is sure they were not settled only in nowadays Romania. Siculi meaning in Hungarian as guards, they were settled at the borders. Not only the Eastern, but also all around parts. Even not sure that they were Turkic speaking. However Alans (Iazygi) were surely Turkic speaking. My paternal Grandpa told pamuk for cotton, as it is in Turkish. They spoke their language up to the XVII. century. This kind of Turkic-language-traces has never been found amongst Seklers, in spite of their relative isolation from the other Magyars.
@@seaman5705 And who wrote here about the IX. century Magyars? Prof Révész spoke about a pre Hellenic era, when some nowadays used Hungarian words could be derived from. These Magyars are not equals to Árpád-magyars, are 6000 yrs elders. This is the point, where Genetics and Computer science overwrite the previous dogmas.
@@1970coconut You wrote about 9th century magyars as descendants of the huns which I call bullshit . Same for the alphabet , which came from the turks , not szeklers - there is no szekler language anymore, all speak hungarian . Nobody identifies a DNA clade with a nation, but slavs as indo-europeans carried R1a which was passed to all Eastern Europe including today's hungarians . Prof Revesz invents a theory without even considering Y-DNA - heard it before slightly changed from other hungarians who claimed to be the scythians . Something similar with some greeks which claim to have come in Europe at 15000-18000 bc and to have created all civilization - minoan, mycenian and classic . So, one more idiot than the other .
A Hungarian finds that the original Europeans were Hungarian. Not only that they created Europe's earliest civilization and the earliest writing system.
I think the people who moved into europe after the ice age adopted the language/culture of those already living there, while also slightly influencing it. The egyptian migratory origin stories were right all along, but as different parts of europe started identifying among themselves instead of across the region, nativity became defined by those living there at the time, and the cultures that emerged from a specific area. Peoplegroups are realistically only mutually recognizeable (both ethnically and culturally) for about 1000 years before regional identity, mutations and technology splits them from eachother. At one point, there was a people migrating to Egypt, being the first recorded "sea peoples", but that people does not exist today because their ethnicity, technologic uniformity and identity has been erased or transformed into something entirely different.
Exactly. This is pure garbage science, and I am surprised to find it on this channel. Usually the owner of the channel takes great pleasure in debunking fringe claims such as this.
Inferring genetic origins of the Minoans from mtDNA haplogroups alone seems quite a stretch. The genomic data shows they are a mix of mostly Early European Farmer with minor amounts of Western Hunter Gatherer and Caucuses derived populations. There's no reliable way beyond pure speculation to infer a language grouping of Minoan until someone breaks the code of the Linear A writing system.
@Black Gawdz The hp J originated most likely in the Caucasus. The Minoans had the subclade J2a while Arabs including carry the subclade J1. The Lemba have some Middle Eastern/Jewish admixture due to Arab/Yemenite Jewish traders that migrated to Africa. Minoans have no Arab or Levantine admixure.
@Black Gawdz Oh I see, you're an Afrocentrist who tries in spite of the evidence to the contrary, to push the ridiculous Minoans were black myth. That is put to bed by DNA results. Minoans from 4000 years ago whose DNA was tested showed that they had no North African or Levantine admixture. You can deflect all you want, but you can't change the fact that Minoans were not black, they were not even North African- like. Again the Lembas have some Yemenite Jewish/Middle Eastern mix, and they are mostly Bantus. I read updated genetic studies on them. Besides, what do Lembas have to do with Minoans? Nothing. Yeah right, the white Minoan women according to Afrocentrists were of course a forgery. Pale Minoan women don't fit the Afrocentric narrative, so they have to resort into conspiracy theories. Why did the frauds only make the females look pale and left the males tanned and not made them white too? Besides, the tanned Minoan males look clearly Caucasian, just with a strong tan and not black in any shape, form or fashion. So even if the Minoan females were depicted tanned instead of pale, it doesn't help to validate the Afrocentric nonsense. Plus Afrocentrics back then never claimed Minoans nor anyone outside Africa.
@@gianlucarossi5672 ever heard of out of africa theory we were all black, lighter skin came latter study Japanese Dna or Chinese both from Africa. Stop being racist your great x10 was a black women. White can come from black but never have black come from white.
The specific details are important because some wavy lines appear as a representation of water in many cultures. In the video example, a single zigzag line goes all around the edge of a rectangular region and each triangle formed by the zigzag line contains a single dot. This specific representation is not found in North America.
This format might have worked better incase of slow internet speeds across continents. If anything, it's free, and more quality than some of my college history.
this sounds arrogant and ridiculous. he is Hungarian which is Finno-Ugric. he's obviously just trying to make a case for Finno-Ugric people being the original inhabitants of Europe. 🙄
It didn't sound like that me at all. Hungarian is not the same thing as Finnish or Ugarit , its a different language and different culture. Similarities does not male it the same. Is french and English the same? both have Germanic roots. You sound bias.
@@perretti Hungarian and Finnish are in the same language family. It doesn't matter what you personally think they sound like. These two languages are related to each other.
I am not sure about his non biased approach ....there was no Hungary back then....no Sir....nothing of the kind until the beggining of 11 th century a.d.Magyars were a migratory 7 tribes from Asia ....This a fact nobody dare to deny....if he is a real scholar....
…it’s important to note that the speaker is not discussing countries per se, he is discussing language groups - Proto Finno-Ugric…. NO COUNTRY NAMES are cited…
Before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age, non-Indo-European languages were spoken by farmers living in Europe. At the time of the Hungarian invasion in the 9th century, the number of warrior nomads arriving was only 5% of the number of farmers already living in the Carpathian basin. In addition, the arrivals were an alliance of 3 different language groups. So they could not bring the language known today as Hungarian to the Carpathian Basin. For those who don't believe, I recommend: Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, in his work The Geographical Formation of European Languages, recognizes Hungarian, which until now has been treated as a stepchild of Europe, as the founder of Europe's culture. According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe. "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age." Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals in the IX. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction." Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages.
The Minoan language seems to be a relative of the anatolian neolithic Hattic language. Hattic language is an agglutinative language like finnougric, but it uses prefixation instead of postfixation unlike the finnougric languages. The idiom of Phaistos disc seems to be a relative of Hattic language Language of the disc has reduplication of root (blocks A3, A15) and well elaborated prefixation; it means that Minoan can probably be relative of Anatolian languages... www.researchgate.net/publication/320149693_The_idiom_of_Phaistos_disc_seems_to_be_a_relative_of_Hattic_language
The Hattic language does not belong to the Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. It is a pre-Indo-European language like Minoan. There is a great variation within the Finno-Ugric languages in terms of the number of prefixes they have. Hattic seems to have a large number of prefixes, but Hungarian also has a large number of prefixes. Hence being agglutinative but using prefixes does not exclude the possibility that Hattic is also a Finno-Ugric language. Several people made the observation that Hattic and Minoan are likely related languages, including Alexander Akulov, whom you cited. I also think that Hattic and Minoan are related languages. I completely agree with this idea as shown in one of my journal articles: www.wseas.org/multimedia/journals/information/2017/a605909-068.pdf
@@PeterRevesz Thank you for your reply. I hope you don't mind if I am skeptical regarding you theory. I meant pre-indo-european by writing anatolian language. Perhapse I should write anatolic? I speak natively Hungarian. Beszélek magyarul és tudom, hogy a magyar a ragokat kedveli inkább, mint az előtagokat. (I speak hungarian and I know that the Hungarian language prefers postfixes instead of prefixes) Hungarian like other finnougric languages uses SVO word order - subject-verb-object. Linera A seems to be VSO order (verb-subject-object). This is by Doctor Brent Davis, a linguist and archaeologist at the University of Melbourne on wikipedia inder the Minoan language. Hattic language (non indo-european language) has also VSO order (wikipedia). So Hattic could be related to the Minoan language. There is also one interesing correspondence on paleolexicon: zari [hattic] mortal, man Linear A sa-rja 'person' (?), often corresponding an ideogram for people www.palaeolexicon.com/Hattic There is a hattic god calles Están, which is in hittite (neshili indo-european language) Ishtanu. This is similar to Hungarian Isten, but could be derived from Yeniseian language. You say that there was a break in Minoan culture. You are right. At the end of the MMII period (1700 BC) there was a large disturbance on Crete-probably an earthquake, but possibly an invasion from Anatolia. The palaces at Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Kato Zakros were destroyed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization Anitta (17. c BC) utterly destroyed and cursed the Hatti capital. The later Hittite kings had to completely rebuild the city. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piyusti So perhaps the hittite (neshili) invasion caused mass immigration to Crete.
@@MDchan Brent Davis' analysis has some subtle problems that are too complex to describe here, but here are some more obvious problems: (1) The word order was not always SVO in Hungarian. (2) Using Linear B sound values for Linear A was an unfruitful exercise for the past 80 years. (3) There is no evidence that the Hattic people had any writing. Hence the Hattic people would be unlikely to have brought the Linear A script to Crete around 1700 BC (when it first appeared, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_chronology) even if it was about the same time when Hattusa was destroyed.
Has no one here heard of the neolithic "Old Europe"? It lasted from the northern Carpathians all the way to Crete. It was a relatively uniform Neolithic culture that was the most advanced part of Europe. It is very likely that the same language was spoken in his territory. Don't be disbelieving, but let's read it!
There are words and names in Japan that are spelled and pronounced exactly the same way as Ibo language in Nigeria. There are names for women in Ibo with the same spelling and pronunciation as names for women in Japan. The meanings and significances are completely different, however. Etymology only helps if the people were close geographically, or there is a known genetic link. Because the human brain functions the same around the world, there will be similarities/ crossovers. This doesn't represent a direct lineage.
Sorting out the "what is what" by people with the knowledge not just gives you the AHA! but teach out how to get to the relevant konklusions. In times where most of us live by small and short sensations we all need to "get into things and the thinking".
is this just a video that has been cut up and then u ask a question on the subject matter knowing it is pre recorded. would the other guy be pissed if that's the case
A big thank you to Dr Revesz for sharing with us. I note that the symbol showed for fig has the value NI because in those times fig was called 'Nikoulion' and not siko as in Greek. I have also heard of the word 'Kounalion' As for Linear A, I believe the language is the same as that spoken in Anatolia, near Hatti Land as the Minoans carry 2 same cultural elements: palace structure and religion (mother nature, bear, axe, bull, red colour painting). I still debate whether the people from Balkans introduced the writing system to mesopotamians, Levant and Crete.
Hi. In “Termcraft: The emergence of terminology science from the Vincans and Sumerians to Aristotle” by Lambert, a table proposes examples of possible sign continuity between Vincan (Vintchan), Mesopotamia, the Nile, and Linear B. The sources are Petrie, quoted in Winn (Pre-Writing in Southeastern Europe, 248-249, from a list of 82 Vinca-type signs out of 210, Winn lists 50 signs that are comparable to Nilotic signs (pre 3200, from Petrie), 46 to Aegean signs (2500-1150, from Edgar and Hogarth), and 45 to Trojan signs (post 3000 BCE, from Schliemann); Haarmann; Singh. Cheers.
really interesting talk and daring hypotheses. I'll have to admit that I am one of the skeptical kind and for the danube basin being some kind of enduring finno-ugric language homeland, one would like to see a people group being attested to live there during the bronze and iron age speaking a language of that family. I would like to know if there are any contestants....
I am going back to school at some point so I can publish my paper on the cultural influence of Neolithic and chalcolithic Iberian peoples over early Minoan civilization
Yes, because? How about all Europeans trying to prove Indo-European origins in everything? The whole world is laughing? No. If European researchers would consider regularly Finno-Ugric too we might have had some advances. But they do not, so who else do you think would be studying these if not a Hungarian? if a Hungarian finds something in this direction then the findings are discredited because he is Hungarian? Other would have found it too if they reserched it but they did not.
How do we know for sure that there is only 1 vowel? Some languages today, like the word "language" has 2 vowels next to each other, as do the words "each" and "seed", "group".
The Neolithic culture spread from Southeastern Europe to Western Europe and that spread may have carried with it some of the motifs. Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
@@anastasiachristakos2480 Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
The Danube Basin. However, earlier, it may have been more the cultures now sunken into today’s Black Sea. But, I have reasons to believe proto-Hungarian before the Black Sea inundation, originated in the Putoranskiy region towards the Sakha Republic in Northern Siberia. Defrosting of the tundra may prove me right, especially when we understand temporary poleshift better. Dieter L. Frischknecht / Rüschlikon, Switzerland.
Sounds weird that a well motif would be important around the Danube watershed. If anything it would be a valued technology in areas turning arid. The well looks like a formal Indian open well with stairs. But I’m stretching it. I don’t doubt that Crete was a very important entrepôt that connected the people’s north, south, east and west. I’m intrigued by the proposition that Linear A and Minoan could have finno-ugric influence.
I’m sure that the well is a mistranslation: how can an animal drink from a well. It’s probably a water hole/ditch, which has some magic powers, like turning people into animals or something like that Definitely not a well
@@MagicalCrimea these memes tend to origin at the seat if sophisticated power. A well and its reverence would develop graphically around a palace structure. The graphic imagery reminds me of staircase wells in India. Then there is the concept of a natural garden and paradise lost. I don’t know how such a powerful nostos could develop in the Danube basin! Easy to see it develop in semi-arid areas that depend on seasonal rain and arid river basins in North Africa, Anatolia, the Levant and Near East. This research however points to the extensive trade reach of Crete and the cross-influence on neighbouring empires, migrations and the power dynasties moving around vast territories. We shouldn’t be too restrictive in interpreting new ideas.
@@MagicalCrimea you are restricting the interpretation very diverse cultures make of a developing meme. Formal interpretations of imagery only happen in highly structured societies with overbearing religious cults. I live in a small rural town and see the loose interpretation of catholic imagery compared to what would be highly structured in larger cities with a rich church hierarchy. Repurposing imagery is normal but origins tend to point towards a seat of power advertising itself and shaping public opinion.
Very interesting. I certainly have heard of vowel drift. It's why English sounds so different in all it's areas. It never occurred to me that in some languages this doesn't happen. Being half Finnish, this was fun!
No ot is not, this theories are pathetic🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
The mythological connection between Thrace.and Crete is based on the cult of Dionysus of mount Ida. Orpheus was initiated in Crete. Fino Ugric populations arrived on European soil by migrating westward from Siberia. These populations were not known to be seafaring at all to reach Crete!!
The old theory of Finno-Ugric origins from Siberia is contradicted by recent archaeogenetic evidence that shows that the migrations from Siberia brought in non-Finno-Ugric Huns and related people to Hungary: www.researchgate.net/publication/343330818_Genetic_evidence_suggests_a_sense_of_family_parity_and_conquest_in_the_Xiongnu_Iron_Age_nomads_of_Mongolia
@@PeterRevesz , so what you're claiming now is that the Finno-Ugric language family developed in the Danube Valley, but that a bunch of non-FU's ended up there but started speaking the language? And so the similarity of the F-U languages to Samoyedic is just... coincidence? C'mon, man.
Word of advice..Take everything a historian (50+ or older) from Eastern Europe says..with a huge mountain of salt..Most of them suffer from the "we wuz kangz" syndrome and see everything deriving from their national identity..
Thoroughly satisfied with this interview and as that I recently got my DNA readout I understood things like haplo grouping & such 😀 😁 Minoans fascinate me , although we now know that we actually don't know what they called themselves as that Minoa comes to us from a greek legend about a king named Minor ✅ Yes , my distant relative genetically spent a life time or two in Greece , probably part of the migration in Paleolithic times and I also decended from way up north , sweedon . ..❤ Thanks so much 😍
No, we who researched know exactly: they were the Caphtorites and Caslukhites from which came Philistines 🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
Oneather not real facts but just theory , one time they say etruskian can translate from Hungarian , and now the acient kurites ( kritiki ) are Hungarian !!! This is a joke
Uh... might want to read some of the negative comments on this thread. You might rethink your assessment. I'm sure he's a terrific computer scientist, but maybe better stay in your swim lane.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well you may be right at least regarding the computer science aspect, that's what I was mostly focusing on. The use of the computer program in translating ancient languages is very well thought out.
@@vote4dahv411 , Well, maybe. I'm a tech layman, so I can't speak to his CS acumen. But I seem to remember an acronym from the early 90's: GIGO. As far as the analysis is concerned, he's putting in the data which may, spuriously, support (or appear to support) his hypothesis, and then when it comes out, hey presto, looks like he proved his case. Nearest analogy I can think of this early in the morning is that you might as well set out to prove that chocolate is good for you. If chocolate's the only thing you analyze, sure, it'll show that it contains calcium and cacao has a few trace vitamins. But your overall conclusion will be wrong. In short, this guy is trying to draw a connection between two completely disparate peoples on the flimsiest of bases, that both languages use suffixes to indicate case change. Well, cripes, so do most Slavic languages and about a zillion others. And most disturbingly, in doing so, he's advancing the case that the Hungarian ethnogenesis was in the Danube valley, which would validate the Magyars' claims to Pannonia (which isn't even in dispute). This is pure pseudoscience, and worse, it's based on conscious lies. No one has deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to. The speakers of Finno-Ugric languages, including the Magyars, originated on the central Asian steppes. And the closest connection between the Minoans and the proto-Magyars is that both peoples had two nostrils.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well I wouldn't necessarily say it's pure pseudoscience. From the data I read it mostly suggests that the Proto-Minoan's at least spoke the language of the Proto-Hungarians. Not to say that you're wrong, I just know that languages which are close geographically, in particular trade languages, borrow words, phrases, and sometimes even grammar techniques, as can be found with many Semitic languages. For me, I look at the quality of the translation of the Phaistos disk compared to previous ones and this is the most clear, (again my opinion) that we have so far. Given the context where it was found and using this methodology, it makes more sense than previous translations. Regarding the other arguments such as him promoting the ethnogenesis of Hungary that's an argument I'm not well versed in so I can't say either way.
@@vote4dahv411 , well, let's address those one by one. No one knows if the "proto-Minoans" spoke the language of the proto-Hungarians, because no one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one knows what language family, if any, the Minoan language belonged to. It could very well have been an isolate. It's worth noting, moreover, that Michael Ventris, the guy who actually deciphered Linear B, believed that Linear A was connected to Etruscan, but he never claimed to have discovered any concrete connection. But there is zero reason to think that the languages are connected in any way. Secondly, those languages were NOT close geographically. Revesz claims that the Hungarian ancestor language originated in the Danube basin, which is just completely wrong. No one else in the world thinks this, and the evidence that the Ugric languages originated in Central Asia is beyond overwhelming. There would have been zero contact between Ugric speakers and Minoan speakers. None. Thirdly, the Phaistos disk has NOT been "translated." There have been zillions of claims to have translated it... all have been proved completely false. Easter Island, Linear A, the Pyramids... all these ancient phenomena attract kooks. Whenever anyone, especially anyone outside the related disciplines, claims to have deciphered Linear A, nod politely, step back, make no sudden moves, and alert the authorities.
@Black Gawdz well, first of all, recent DNA has shown that modern day Greeks share 92% of the DNA of the Myceneans and Menoans. The "invasion", your speaking of was of the Dorians in 1000 BC and make up a small portion of the DNA of modern Greeks. So I know your life is sad and you need to make up history for yourself and your race because you've accomplished nothing but the truth shall set u free.
Dr Revesz, you discussed mitochondrial DNA lineages. However, I have an extremely rare y-DNA lineage of the J2 haplogroup and M319 mutation. The only place in the world where this lineage exists today in world >0.1% is Crete where it is present about 9% and has also been found in Minoan era skeletons from around 3200 bce in mountains of eastern Crete. However, I have found a few DNA near-matches online from Syria, Kuwait and India. Furthermore, J2-M319 is reported today among a few Tamil villages in India. Additionally, I have read that some frescoes from Santorini depict a grey monkey from south Asia. Therefore, I wonder if there could be an early bronze age genetic connection between Crete and the Indus Valley Civilization since some believe the Tamil people originated there. There is a related, J2 parent lineage in Anatolia, but not my M319 specific branch. I realize that this does not match your mtDNA findings well but there seems to be something to be discovered in this.
This actually matches my theory that the Minoans were genetically composed of a group that directly came from the Near East (where J2-M319 may belong) and another group that came later from the Danube Basin and had a mixture of Near Eastern and European Hunter-Gatherer origins.
@Black Gawdz I think that it is possible that some of the early colonizers of Crete came from Egypt and had black skin. My analyis only shows that the Charalambos samples from the Middle Minoan period have a connection to the Danube Basin.
@@PeterRevesz Thanks for the reply. I have read a lot of research on DNA and history and I have noticed that movement of mt-DNA lineages can sometimes mean the migration of families while the movement of y-DNA may only imply movement of male traders, explorers or invaders.
@@PeterRevesz This paper in Nature may help your research. It also shows significant geographic differentiation in the y-DNA haplogroups on ancient Crete. I wonder if you can correlate this with your other mt-DNA data. www.nature.com/articles/5201769#fig2
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This was very well detailed and thought out . Its very sad that most push the oneness and label a bread Mediterranean dna that avoide all details. We must be mature enough to learn details and the sensitive need to grow up.
I enjoyed this presentation, having seen another lecture of Dr. Revesz' a few months ago. Thank you for having him on!
Has the method proposed by Dr. Revesz to establish a relationship between Linear A and the Carian script been used on another family of scripts, like, say, South and Southeast Asian scripts from Brahmi, etc.? It could strengthen the case that the algorithm is sound when used in this context. It's definitely interesting to see in action a method that derives from a more purely-computational approach and not rely as on historical linguistic data.
In European vilegies, even now there is a saying " The Huns are coming" from the time of Atila -The Hun
Was wondering if you ever have a follow up discussion with Dr. Revesz if he could provide clarification on consequences of this shift in Finno-Ugric urheim, does he think that the Hungarian language remained in situ in Pannonia, or does he think it originated in the Danube delta, migrated to the Ural mountain region, and then returned with the Magyar invasions of the Middle Ages?
Can this channel be sufficiently monetised to enable you to work on it full time? Would that be welcome?
Unfortunatly this does have a strong ring of Hungarian nationalism. The fact that the modern Hungarian population have some DNA from the mesolithic population does not in any way mean that the Fino ugaric languages originate there. If that were the case then every modern European language could claim to originate in mesolithic Europe, as most Europeans carry some mesolithic DNA from the European hunter gatherer popultion of the time, due to the migrants breeding with the local populations.
gOOD CATCH HE NEEDS TO ADDRESS THIS. OTHERWIDE much respect, HUNS are interelopers
Very true...
@@oldranger649 so are indo Europeans
@@oldranger649 But Hungarians are Magyars...
You are right. It is just idea of Victor Orban about great Hungary. In our country we have three mainHP groups R1a1, I2a and R1b1. As Hungarian have conquered our ancestor in Pannonia, they have got also our HP groups. That is idiot theory. To steal from other to claim as their DNA. Most of citizens in Hungary are Slavs and old natives.
It's dangerous to try to make too many conclusions about language from genes. History has shown many times that genes and language doesn't necessarily walk the same paths.
Yes, because of wars and Human character.
I am still having issues with how he compared the art forms, not alone with linguistics.
@@anastasiachristakos2480 He has to scientifically suport Victo Orban`s claiming about Great Hungariy again. Science helps political idea.
@@bojanstare8667 That is not a political idea- that is gaslighting people with lies- just like Erdogan with Turkey. The Turks say that Homer was a Turk and many other fairytales.
@@anastasiachristakos2480 well, he was born in Turkey ...
The discussion on Linear A was absolutely fascinating! Thank you to both of you!
You may find more discussion about Linear A and related ancient scripts in my video "The development and role of symmetry in ancient scripts": th-cam.com/video/XVWa0WEn-e0/w-d-xo.html
It's mind blowing! Good luck with your further work!
Well, a Hungarian finding a connection with Uralo-Altaic populations is quite suspect TO SAY THE LEAST.
Right? I am surprised honestly at this video and why the owner of the channel is not being more critical. usually he takes great pleasure in debunking fringe hypothesises
@@ebbelille well, this isn't presented as a fringe theory, until comparison with some "Uralo-Altaic" cultural constrsucts of much later times AND the, well, professor' Revesz's origins, make some alarm bell sound.
I have heard Albanians with more logical claims to the civilization of Atlantis lol
Note that there was no discussion of Y-DNA during the same periods. I can go along with him, up to a point. But ...when *any* researcher stars cherry picking data? I'm no longer listening. Moving on... ;)
I may have to watch again, but from what I remember, he just said that there were royal dynasties with Mongolian DNA, while the people they ruled over had Finno-Urgic DNA. This is not surprising at all.
Your doctor Revesz Is awesome! Thank you for having him on
Thank you so much for watching and for enjoying the time he devoted to the channel!
Thank you Nick for having invited Dr Revesz!
Are there historians that support this theory, as this just sounds like he was specifically looking for Hungarian connection with Minoans, not an actual origin of them?
The fact he translated a text is pretty strong LOL... and the reasoning that traveling down the Black sea coast, then island hopping southward towards Crete is a far better path than traveling across open water from anywhere else in the Meditteranean. Especially in the old ships.
Huns, Avars and Hungarians (Magyars) are steppe tribes not sailors. The same as Tatars. Have you ever seen Hungarian sailor? Me not.
@@MarkVrem More like ''translated'', this is a completely bogus theory, if a Greek archaeologist was out with the same theory about the double axe carvings found in UK you would all be at his throat.
@@bojanstare8667 Fa Nándor.
Of course not. No historian or archaeologist that is not a complete clown would ever support such a theory
Yes, please get Dr Revesz Peter again!
and give them as gift one radioactif ..shit !
Love your hoodie! ‘Sea Peoples Mediterranean Tour’
Dr Revesz, it occurred to me that your hypothesis may also help explain some mysterious bronze-age trade connections. Specifically, the abundant use of Baltic amber in ancient Egypt and the presence of bronze goods from Sardinia in northern Europe. Perhaps people migrated south following a trade route.
Of course and there's plenty of ancient mythology about this. Read "The Oera Linda" if you haven't yet.
Thanky in angri is panions onli grek is not
Some of the earliest mines in Europe were in Hungary. There were Lead mines there very early, 2-3000 BC and other metal mines , possibly Tin, mines later on.
Tin was in short supply in the later bronze age as middle eastern supplies became scarce, like Lithium is today.
The trade routes then spread through France to Englands Tin mines later on in the Bronze age- but still very early in European pre history.
The European trade routes were found along with bell shaped beakers so naming the Bell Beaker people who were the earliest organized traders. They appeared to be from or trading through to Mesopotamia and the greater middle east.
Those trade routes were later serviced by sea through Phonecian traders making landfall at their main ports like Bilbos.
At some point probably rival Cretian, Carthiginian and/or even European seafarers came along. Sardinian culture predates them all. Early British legands trace their origins in part to Trojan seafarers with family ties to Etruscans. Tintagle Castle in Wales guarded a tin mine and port where early Mediterranean trade goods have been found.
Everyone loves to cut out the middle man!
If your traveling down the Danube or across the Alps selling your metal goods to someone at a Mediterranean port, curiosity gets the better of you as to whether you can make more money trading further along the route.
In tracing my family from the Brittish royalty to France and finally Luxembourg, I was suprised to see those ancient routes emerging.
Luxembourg ruled Crete!
Thats a bit of a spread except as a trade route. I was also tracing the legends of family origins stemming from Melusine.
Those legends led directly to those same areas.
Later on in the Crusades, the Luxembourg royal family was ruling Jerusalem.
It was like seeing a backwards forwards rise and fall of rule and trade linked by family ties.
What started with the middle easts quest for metals especially Tin, may have run through different routes, either through mountain passes like Luxembourg or through the Danube to get to Englands Tin supply.
Trading families often rise to become ruling families. They set up trading centers along the routes and tax or toll commerce. They then strengthen ties along trade routes through marriage to secure rights to trade.
We have had to guess these relations through religion, legends, artistic motifs, grave goods and especially language in the past. Now genetics is coming into play. It may not show the whole picture since rulers can be from far off as in Luxembourg ruling Jerusalem for a thin slice of time, but it certainly adds to the tapestry of understanding the pre written history!
Early European prehistory was hugely influenced by the search and trade of Metals. A minority of traders from far off lands in the middle east most likely came to rule through intermarriage into the local tribes.
The local Celtic tribes then took up the trade. Their ox carts rolled from Switzerland (where early mines were manned by slaves), across France and finally crossed to England before writing had even emerged in Europe.
To show the scope of what an oxcart can do, a few thousand years later ancestors of the same European people forded or floated ox carts across rivers, cutting trails over land as they went, through mountain passes to travel across the American wilderness-in a season or two!
Ox carts with ancient Europeans were found in the Gobi desert in China.
Europeon Scythian tribes people from Anatolia ( but probably scandanavians), crossed over to Mongolia. They then came to rule China and later moved back again under Ghengis Khan to reconquer everything up to and even a bit further into Europe. Those people and others were possibly related to the original metal traders out of the early Hungarian mines.
Those were the people who first harnessed oxen and later horses to carts to move goods and people long distances. That may have been driven by trade in heavy goods like metals. Later shipping was used to move heavy metals spurring trade in all goods.
The Ox cart peddlers were still in business in America as "Yankee Peddlers" and " Nutmeggers" after buying goods at port cities to be moved inland.
Finally!!! Someone who knows what they talking about! We Greeks, it's Hellens infact we call ourselves from really ancient times, knew that we came from sendral Europe and our language is quite old but of course no one ask us! There's no dought in our minds that we are here,in these lands since antiquity! Infact our alphabet came first and the phinicias took it from us! There are clear evidence in caves and in fragments of pottery with clear greek letters EKNH etc. from 6.000 years that conferm what we Hellens always knew! Thank you for putting things in order. The continuety of Greek art and most important the language from ancient times to this day is evident in all Greek lands and islands.
Your excellent intuition about the evolution of the alphabet is supported by the following paper (see Figures 2 and 3): www.naun.org/main/UPress/ami/2016/a182013-133.pdf
What an amazing man Dr Peter Revesz is! So much detail had to be sorted out and critically examined. So many genetics, and peoples had to be found and others rejected to just begin to see some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hun, Turkish to see the symbols found in masses imagery and the sounds found out' so many languages understood. Absolutely marvellous! So much still to do and exciting discoveries! Cynthia McLaglen
Wellllllllll... yeah, there are going to be some similarities in Hungarian, Finnish, Hunnic and Turkic, because they all originated in the same area. There's some debate as to whether they're genetically related (i.e., springing from the same root), but there's little serious debate that they all came from central Asia.
It is easy to smile at a Hungarian finding Hungarian links with the ancient Minoans, however, to be fair, they are mainly with Finnis and early settlers along the Danube. For me, it is not all that important whether, or not, it is eventually proved to be the final, correct answer. What I cannot deny is that there are 14 sensible translations resulting from this approach and that, if wrong, it will crash against the hundreds of yet-to-be-translated ones. So, we can let the scientific method be the final arbiter.
In the meantime, I thank both of you for presenting this careful and respectful piece of Scholarship.
Honestly i don't understand why people are reeing about "muh nationalism" the links with Finni-ugaric are pretty clear, and I'm pretty sure in the entire video all he says is that they are related languages, this isn't a new idea, or even an odd idea, Hungarian has been noted to be very different from any nearby languages since people even bothered to care.
None of the current nation names apply to the ancient cultures that came and went from ancient migrations. Pride has no place in the research.
What do you have against a scholar of Hungarian origin? You statement is more than ridiculous!!!
@@davidhobbs5679 I fully agree, and expect that most others will too.
This is a balanced presentation of both facts and very promising results.
@@Demane69 True. If only enough people could see it as clearly as you do, we could return to good honest research and debate. Best Regards.
Thank you Nick for your open mind and having invited Dr Revesz!!!!!
HUGE amount of speculation about vowel harmony here. those 'red' and 'blue' groups could be LITERALLY ANY LINGUISTIC DISTINCTION
All he said was it suggested vowel harmony, a feature of many unrelated languages, but it may eliminate some, thus narrowing the search. Very interesting, but hardly a huge claim to get triggered over. A lot of this type of research, is educated guessing, slivers of facts, following clues, to see if the trail goes somewhere or hits a wall. Basically, he's just testing some ideas, and that's perfectly fair.
Thank you somebody’s still woke. Invest in your interest and do your own work not just homework. If you don’t see it or know what you’re looking at it’s all hearsay. Mostly speculation. They’re really not talking anyway.
@@macvena Well, he's also making some claims that are a little silly, to say the least. No one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to without a Mycenaean-Minoan Rosetta stone, and every "breakthrough translation" of the Phaistos disc (the authenticity of which, by the way, is debatable) contradicts the previous one. Likely no one has figured it out.
I hate to go into ad hominems here, but sometimes they're useful. Strikes me as slightly sus that a computer scientist, not a linguist, geneticist, or historian has made this remarkable discovery... and it's even more eyebrow-raising that a Hungarian would claim that the first European civilization was actually the creation of proto-Hungarians. Add it all up, couple it with the weakness of the "evidence" (which is pretty much entirely circumstantial), and you have a proposition which I think can be safely ignored.
I hope we all realize his decipherment creates a readily understandable logically inscribed statement, with a proven repeatable method. These aren't one off translations. Dr. Revesz is a professor of computational linguistics which is exactly what it sounds like a well developed complex, and rapidly evolving field which utilizes toolkits which overlap with a modern geneticist. Computational linguistics can very well be seen and understood as a supplement to computational biology as well as an independent field. I would suggest digging a little deeper into his other posted chats, videos, regarding the minoans; if you're not satisfied you should check out some current lectures on the different theories of human migration that are out there. His publications are not outliers.
If you're a language guy, check out the recent developments on the deciphering of the indus valley script. It utilizes similar strategies.@@jimpalmer2981
Interesting but I remain unconvinced until he can cross check several translations and they prove to make sense. He makes a case, but only presents one example which may be biased by his Hungarian / fino ugric affinity... which could also be the angle for a breakthrough for sure... but comparison, peer review, and others attempting translations based on his hypothesis is needed.
Do your own research and present it.
This is the first translation breakthrough of Minoan script that I've seen. The derived meaning on the scripted bridal ring sounds so personally authentic. Thank you for sharing this discussion. It's inspiring to see this line of research.
You’re most welcome and thanks for watching. I really enjoyed hosting him and his work is truly awesome.
Minoans Language is one form of Greek language the inscrepsion of linear is not different language from greek but one form of writing of ancient Greek with Greek root of word
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 Why you did it? Is it because you can't stand saying someone the truth?
@@nikosmihalo4706 Minoan language is likely a language isolate, not related to any known language.
@@bitter_truth8646 Lies you mean 😬
A little sus that a Hungarian (especially someone that spent time in Greece) comes to the conclusion that Myceneans come from the Danube region and have ties to Finno-Hungric groups. Sorry if I don't buy this.
I would support that theory but we have to be careful with naming the nations. It is better talking of 'speakers' of that Indo-European language, rather than naming it 'Hungarians' or 'Minoan' etc. The steppe people moved from Asia near black sea to Danube, to Aegean and Anatolia. If one reads history of tribes, will find chaos when trying to identify them by names as these kept changing with occupation of new land, loss at war, attacks, migrations.
I don’t think that’s what he said my friend. Maybe you should listen a little harder and think a little bit deeper!
@@ellanguage9305 Hey Asimenia! Fancy meeting you here. I’m fascinated by this subject and never imagined that you had the same interest. I listened to Dr Revesz theory on the origins of Minoans and he seems to have something. What do you think?
@@hedylus i will inform you to participate in my presentation of my translation of the disk. As for Dr Revesz theory, we have to consider his views and I can not exclude the possibility that he is right but there is still more research to be done. For example we need to establish whether Luvian and Hatti languages, which were spoken in Anatolia and the lands that share same religious and architectural elements with that of Minoans, have any link with Hungarian and other Proto-Skavonic languages. I suspect they have. There was also a point that there was migration from Anatolia and from North of Greece back to Northern Europe such as to Poland, Hungary et other Balkans places. It could be that people from Danube river gave rise to the writing we saw in the 3rd Millennium in Mesopotamia, crete, Aegean etc. I am though sure of one thing: we need to keep re-writing history
@@ellanguage9305 Yes. I understand. His translation of the unknown Minoan language written in Linear A, seems correct. Can you fault him?If he is correct, this being the case, it has incredible similarities with Hungarian. His specialty seems to be in comparative analysis, so his skills to identify identical motifs in ancient Hungarian and in Finish & Suomi cultures, is an indicator, but his work in Hapla groups is amazing. By joining the two main groups in Central Europe just prior to the Middle Minoan period (his assertion) mathematically it produces the same group of DNA found in Crete, (presumably in the famous Cave he mentioned).
Hello, proposed Proto-Ugric homeland in Danubian valley sounds super strange.
Proto Uralic (Ugric is a daughter branch) has a lot of words for northern coniferous trees, so much more northeastern homeland seems more plausible (near Ural mountains).
I feel Minoans being of European neolithic ancestry (ancestors of farmers who migrated from Anatolia to Danube valleys) sounds logical, but why should they be Ugric? What is known from Eteocretan language it looks more like related to Etruscan and Lemnian (Tyrsenian).
why did you assume the ugrik lingo-group tho?
God speed anyway
@@beakfordclakington1337 Hello, it was proposed by Dr. Revesz in the video, I fear there is not much of a scientific support for this idea. Have a nice day
@@velenektraian9299 and u, have a nice day
"but why should they be Ugric?"
Well, your answer is in 1:56...
It is pure Nationalist Pseudohistory, sorry.
@@favero4446 absolutely agree. Also to all who missed it: the Danube/Carpathian basin where, according to this gentlemen, pretty much EVERYthing originates also happens to be the place where his birthplace Hungary is. How convenient.
It's poor form to criticize one researcher for a comparatively minor omission - while building your entire hypothesis on a major omission, i.e.: sole reliance on mtDNA and no mention at all of Y-DNA? Truly - this would have been a stronger case if Y-DNA was mentioned, but omitted entirely while starting with a negative critique of the other researchers? The researcher should be informed that operating this way is relying on the naivety of his audience. On nearly every count - that's a bad idea. Meanwhile the theory that there is a difference in people - actual ethnos - between "middle" and "late" Minoan appears to be critical to the hypothesis and - like the omission of Y-DNA and exclusive reliance on mtDNA - it's a pretty non-trivial point, but in 80 minutes the basis for this premise is never explained.
Great observation. If his theory is true it needs to be compared against a lot of evidence, especially because there are a lot of space and time between finno ugric people and the minoan civilization.
mt DNA is easier (and more reliable) to get from ancient samples, therefore, there are many many more of mt DNA data than Y DNA (which are more fragmented). As the number of ancient Y DNA samples grow more chance will be to find connections. Until then this suffices.
Like his analogy with William the Conqueror. That is probably the case more times than naught, for instance the Medes.
Agreed!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 make a similar video about Mycenaean Greece also
You could think of Italy as well, when first the Goths and then the Lombards (after the terrible Justinian Pest that left half the country unhabited) and finally the Franks took over and established their own feudal reign. And yet, as in France and Spain, the language remain Romance and an evolution of Latin Vulgar. unless the mass of the newcomers totally displaces the old population, it is usually intermixing and adopting the pre existent costumes. "IF" the idea of a Ugro-Finnic linear A is possible, it makes sense that, on the isle of Crete, an isolated, depleted (After the Akrotiri disaster) and vastly outnumbered culture gave way to the indoeuropean "Greek" absorption, especially because we know it was a full scale invasion with huge reserves of population migrating form the mainland.
Except that he errs. Old English (Beowulf) is unreadable except to scholars treating it as a separate language. There are all kinds of intricacies that are stripped away by the time Chaucer writes 300 years after the Norman bastard (Tom Paine's assessment) usurped the throne. With some glossary help, he's readable. His contemporary (The Pearl Poet), probably a couple hundred miles from London is still a huge challenge. London's Middle English won out. Along the way, there were also vowel shifts and other changes in pronunciations. To take Linear A, assign it pronunciations with a Carian alphabet 1,100 years its junior, and then translate it into modern Hungarian (3,700 years removed from the original) is a stretch even before realizing the changes Hungarian experienced through the millennia -- before the Huns arrived in Europe in the fifth century. (There's just too much testimonial evidence to ignore.)
Britain had Roman, Irish, Norwegian, Danish and Dutch rulers, as well as the Normans. Our current King Charles is of German heritage. The only foreign rulers who really changed the language were the Angles, Saxons and Jutes, who brought us a language which was close to Friesian, and evolved into English. By no means do the languages of conquerors automatically become the languages of their subjects.
Not only that:
Until about 400 years ago most English people had no access to literature in their own language. Property deeds and wills were written in Latin, the Bible was in Greek, Latin, Hebrew and Aramaic, Mathematics was studied in Greek or Latin, History and Medicine in Latin, and diplomacy was conducted in French. A hundred years earlier, writing religious texts in English was a crime - Lollardy - the punishment for which was to be thrown into a pit of fire. Yet English prevailed.
Since then, we spread English through the British Empire. We've given that up, but English is now the Lingua Franca of academia, commerce and law throughout the world - much a the ProtoIndoEuropean language was once spoken by many who have no connection to Britain whatsoever.
The adoption of foreign language for its utility prevails:
The Republic of Ireland has been promoting Irish Gaelic relentlessly in its education system, government institutions, libraries and arts for over a century - yet a smaller proportion of its population speak Irish today than when Ireland won independence from British rule. In Pakistan, Urdu is the language of poetry, Arabic is the language of religion, and English is the language of commerce.
Thus the preferred languages of countries are less connected to their governance than to their utility. As this has been so for English across 1,600 years, so it is likely to have been for other languages across millennia - and Peter Revesz' scientific evidence concurs.
So the Magyar migration to Hungary isn't a thing anymore ?
Just you wait, he will find evidence showing that all populations in europe are, in fact, descended from the mighty hungarians.
Would be a back migration.
Hungarian Carpathian Mountain basin is a bit of an extension of the euro-Asian steppes... There were rivers there for watering, and fields for grazing. so pasterol peoples that herded their animals all through out that steppe.. Basically who knows how many times they might have come, left, came, left etc... .... point is some guy would always discover those fields as fields to take his animals to, even if the previous group might had gotten sacked and massacred 20 years earlier probably or left for Crete who knows. That is why I'm curious about his thought on Yamnaya culture.
Haha! I was asking myself the same question. Magyars have some Finno Ugric dna in them, just like those pre Indo European people that had settled the Pannonian Basin thousands of years before. I hope he isnt confusing earlier aboriginal Finno Ugric dna with those of his Magyar ancestors.
I think Mr. Hern's point is that for a long time it's been believed that the Magyars originated on the central Asian steppes, moved west, and eventually settled in Pannonia (after absorbing a bunch of different peoples along the way). Dr. Revesz seems to be arguing that they originated in Pannonia.
Which seems not only silly, but dangerously close to some Orban-esque claims I've heard made by others.
47:00 Did he cherry-pick some Linear A signs to match the Carian script or he actually had other valid criteria for choosing just those 30 or so signs?
How do they relate to Phaistos disc? Seems like a completely different script than the one on the disc
That water motif is found in ancient Egyptian symbolism where there is a circle that Nut is astride with two jackals facing wavy water symbols, the left jackal touching the water with his paw. This was borrowed by the Boetians with a pair of male and female wolves, left with ithyphalic symbol and right with scallop/oyster female symbol. The male reaching up to touch the water pouring from Artemis' dress that has a fish symbol. This symbolizes taking a path with the water being emotional and mental in nature.
According to my observation, the water motif originated from the Fertile Crescent and spread from there to Europe during the Neolithic. It is not surprising that the water motif occurs in ancient Egypt because it is part of the Fertile Crescent.
Egyptian, exactly, not Finnic))) I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
That was amazing!
Also, it was mentioned at some point the subject was controversial. Could you do an interview with another viewpoint, and then a debate? I think it could be super interesting
Thanks for watching! That’s a really interesting idea. I’ll think about this!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 hey hungarian,
YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MINOANS! YOU ARE TURKIC NATION SUCH AS THE FINNS, which are not Scandinavians! Urban's nationalism theory makes you brainwashed.
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 stop stealing other's history and create your own..
Fantastic episode. I was really sad that it ended so soon. I hope you had Dr. Revesz on again (in which I'll find the video)
Thank you. If you are interested in more details please check out my TH-cam channel videos.
@@PeterRevesz so thrilled to find your work on Linear A . I have 2 programmer sons one is thinking of transferring to UNL Computer sci. when he has "cached " enough to return to school.
Such a Great triangulation approach to the problem .
I'm an alumna, BFA.
The art motif + dna + linguistic forensics+ were thrilling since I'm an antiquities / archeology lover. Mid - Late bronze. I was catching up on the last 30 years of Levantine excavations of the costal Pentapolis. OI, Harvard digs .... When I bumped into your work .
Ooolahh lah! I have a lingering affection for egyptology also. 👏👏
Really enjoyed the interview on TH-cam SAMA
@@LMCLTV84 Thank you, it's nice to meet you online. My first interest in archaeology was Egyptology too. Please join my you TH-cam channel under my name if you are interested in learning more details. If your son comes to UNL, I'd be glad to meet him. Go Big Red!
@@PeterRevesz Will do. You forgot to supply the link but I'm sure I can hunt it down at which point I will subscribe.
I was interested in some of the pushback that is obvious to what you are finding. Most of it, one way or another, is an appeal to authority (what previous 'experts' have said).
Usually going with the previous experts is a bad idea. I'm sure you are aware that at one time Sir Arthur Evans, the excavator of the Palace at Knossos, was considered the 'expert' on Linear B (and possibly Linear A as well). He couldn't decipher Linear B but made a pronouncement that whatever language it represented IT WAS NOT Greek. I really wish he would have lived long enough to be told by Michael Ventris, the co-decipherer of Linear B that yes indeed Linear B was ancient Greek!
So, I wish you luck in your endeavours to find the language behind Linear A. I hope I live long enough to hear that announcement.
@@mhorram I appreciate. The story that you wrote shows that archaeologists and classicists were not better qualified to decipher Linear B than architects.
12:52 The dear Professor just missed to mention the BASQUES in South-West France and in North-West Spain who are also based on the Mezolitc group he had mentioned so correctly.
And probably they are the only remaining population so close related to the mesolithic populations. The dear professor seems to be forcing alot of elements in order to fit his nationalistic narrative
It seems that the U5 mtDNA haplogroup split into two old groups within Europe. While Basques and Finno-Ugric groups share the U5 haplogroup, Basques have almost exclusively U5b lineages (U5b1f, U5b1c1, U5b2) not the U5a1 lineage shown on the map in the video.
@@joek600 Dr. Révész has not stated such a sentence. He only demonstrated a logical way, how to ‘crack’ Minoan script linear A. Then there is another question, which language changed the less from the bronze-age.
Basques and Sardinians are genetically related, but not to anyone else in particular, except most of the British Isles
@@christopherellis2663 Basically true since the Celts when they got to the islands did not killed off the original population ther but mostly intigrated them into their society. Of course there are other opinions but this on seems to be the most reasonalble since the gen material of those ancient people turns up so often in the British population
The connection with Danubian Civilization can be related to Getae, Dacians and Thracians, not with hungarians who came late in Europe Panonia with Hunic migration. All manipulation!
TOTALY AGREE WITH YOU......why some people love to glorify themselves!!??
Scythian
There are no Civilizations on the Danube!... no temples, palaces, Art or Writing. So who knows what substances you are smoking.
@@pankratoshellas183 If palace or temple means civilization, than you are poore on your knowlidge and brain. Civilization issurrelymore of that. And palace and temple could be destroyed. Just see the history of Chartagina and island Ruegen in Baltic. There were a lot of palace and temples which were destroyed.
And which civilization of Greeks was foundfrom 4500 BC? I think that you don`t need any substance. You are so dumb without them. LOL
don't forget illyrians :)
Very interesting review of current evidence for the origin of the Minoans. I do find it convincing. Thanks for putting this together with Dr. Revesz.
Sapmi stretches from Norway in the west, including Sweden, and to the east; western Russia, and yes northern Finland. The biggest Sami concentration is in Norway and Sweden. Plenty of ancient and indigenous cultures share similar art motifs, as seen in pottery, textiles, and even tattoos. Especially if taken from nature and the stars. Doesn't mean it's the same, nor that it is connected! The ancestors of the Sami mixed with the already existing populations that had been in Scandinavia since the last Ice Age. They were a hunter and gatherer society. Later they also did farming. But it's kinda farfetch to think that the Same Finno Ugric people went south and created the Minoan civilization that are completely different in basically anything! Like if that's the case then I must be related to Berbers, and Baltic people, because they share the same tattoo motifs (also used in textiles), as my tribe in the Philippines, as well as other Austronesian and Polynesian people. Which is of course BS... Lol we even have the same water motif!
I feel it more likely that the farflung trade corridors of the Aegeans carried them to distant corners where many settled and survived even as the core of their world collapsed.
Actually, there are native New Zealanders who have family histories of being descendants of Persians and when the dna tests came out it was very true. (among other unexpected and far stretched connections). Not as likely bs as some would have us believe.
The Sami arrived in Scandinavia after the Indo-Europeans, what makes them “indigenous” ?
The Sami are just part of the story. As to are the indiginous people from North Central Russia. Like the Sel kup.
Something interesting is the indigenous people of the southern tip of South America the selk nam of Tierra del Fuego. I believe selk nam means something like the comunalfire people gathered around for survival.
@@timothyeachus7242 The Sami have DNA connected with people from Alaska, Northern Canada as well they've been in the northern hemisphere forever. They are a mixed bag from ancient times ( similar to The Basque ) Sami have been hearding reindeer, along with people from northern Canada and Alaska and Northern Russia since people etched petroglyphs into stone & prior. North American natives ( the lower 48 states ) knew of the Sami as reindeer herders.
The way I see it we're all indigenous, and none of us are indigenous. All of us are a mixed bag, there are no first of, specifically to one area of land. We are all the result of ever-changing people moving around the planet to survive from the past. 🔥
When I was in Crete a few years ago I saw some wemen who could have been painted in ancient Knossos .
@Black Gawdz Your opinion.
@Black Gawdz hilarious. Please, don’t concern yourself with other peoples cultures if all you have to offer to the discussion is your brain-rotting woke trash.
@Black Gawdz prove it, If you say so
@Black Gawdz Have you ever asked yourselv why city Tebe has the same name as Egyptian Tebe?
@Black Gawdz Are you Goebels? Yoe just copy paste twice or three times the same. And Idea that they come from Greec to settled Greece? Anoying lol
Excellent video, but I am very disappointed by the prejudice shown against Peter Revesz in the comments. Many are most shamefully disrespectful, and reflect badly on their authors.
They say it is because he is Hungarian, but I suspect that it because they consider that data analysts ought not to be so arrogant as to tread on the toes of 'proper' historians. I encountered something similar in History of Art when I demonstrated that the paintings of David were composed using harmonic schemata. So here's a pejorative word for Peter's critics from British history:
'Luddites'.
Thanks to Peter for his endeavour and tenacity. Respect, Dr. Revesz, and thank you for a clear explanation of advanced techniques. You, Sir, are a steely-eyed rocket-man of linguistic analysis.
Disagreeing does not make one a Luddite.
This is so soooo cool, thank you so much for putting this post together for us ✨🌟🤩!!!!
You’re most welcome! Thanks for watching and for enjoying what we do. Means the world!
@@studyofantiquityandthemidd4449 I really enjoy your channel as I can see 10k’s of others do as well 😊!! Will you be doing a follow up to this post? It’s fascinating, but so controversial.
Fascinating. In-depth. Meaty. Intriguing new avenues for exploration. Kudos!
Been waiting for this. Huge fan of the Minoans.
me too!! have you been in akrotiri in santorini? it s a wonder, each time i go there i'm very moved.
@@sariputraa Man I’m so jealous. We had planned a big trip to travel to Rome and prehistoric sites in Greece and Turkey like Mycenae, Knossos, Akrotiri, Troy, Cattalhoyuk, and Hattusa. It was gonna be a big thing but we had to cancel everything cause of the pandemic. Can’t wait to try to do that again.
@@lugal-zage-si4782 the place will still be here, don't worry :) and the beautiful island too... Knossos is really not the same. it's mainly arthur evans fantisizing. a few parts of the site are interesting, and to see its dimensions, it's huge.... but Akrotiri is like pompei, so much more interesting to visit. it's almost like if they just went away....
@@sariputraa Do You mean Atlantis?
@Black Gawdz You are right, R1b1 peoples have come to Europe about 4 to 5000 BC, but R1a1 have come to Europe 7000 BC. And they have white skin.
I have enjoyed the language and writing system part the most. It was all great. Thanks for sharing.
Thrilled to hear that! Thank you for watching!
What an incredibly interesting episode. Gonna have to follow Peter Revesz, brilliantly researched and presented. Kudos to you both
"Beautifully supports"- That's called wishful thinking sir.
Well, I leave it up to you whether the art motifs beautifully or uglily support the theory, but they support the theory: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
Oh thank you! I had my doubts before, but now that you referred me to your *own* video which is based on your *own* research, I am totally convinced! It's amazing what can be uncovered with science when we are pursuing the truth and not pushing our own nationalistic agendas.
@@gmkar7766 It is a false accusation that I pursue a nationalistic agenda.
@@PeterRevesz Supporting a theory that no one else seems to even be aware of, with evidence so flimsy it's basically nonexistent, forcefully arranged in a way to support that theory, looks less like good science and more like you're trying very hard to prove something unlikely. I have to conclude that nationalism is the motivation because there is literally no other reason to think what you think, especially with other commenters mentioning that it sounds drawn right out of Orban's textbook.
Maybe you can enlighten me: what do you find so compelling about your theory that it absolutely must be the truth?
@@gmkar7766 Another implied accusation. I have nothing to do with Orban, and as a childhood immigrant myself, I never liked his anti-immigrant statements. If you really listened to my arguments in the video and read my journal articles and did not find them convincing, then I'm fine with it. What is not fine, however, is making unwarranted assumptions and accusations.
Love these topics. Any chance of clarity on where the Dorians, Ionians etc came from plus the dispersion on the Greeks in Asia and Southern Europe?
Was it made before it was found out ,that Sir. Evans was actually repainting famous frescos in Knossos palace and other historic artefacts . Its not mentioned ?
It's so interesting for non experts like me knowing from the original authors about their theories even when they are unconventional! Thanks for the episode.
Agreed! Thank you for watching this!
Are the Amazigh haplogoup U? and is this script connected to Harapan script at all? How does this fit with the megalithic culture that appeared in the 4th millennium? thanks
T. R. Pickerill, I feel it totally possible that the Minoans/Aegeans traded as far from their base as did Phoenicians and the later Vikings.
I love this channel, and this video is by far one of the best ones I've seen on this channel! I'd love to have more videos just like this one. This is such controversial research and is at the very edge of our knowledge! I get that this rawer footage than normal, but the information shared about Linear A is groundbreaking. I hope his work can finally unlock the language we have been staring at in bewilderment for generations.
Your comment is truly kind and we appreciate your support. Thank you for your time and for truly enjoying what we do. Makes it all worth it.
@host....thanks for being patient with some of the angry posts. Even if there is nationalistic bias... The overall discussion about ancient linguistics is worth all time spent.
Does the Etruscan language feature vowel harmony? It seems like something related to it would be one of the stronger alternative contenders for the language spoken by the Minoans
The Etruscan language does not have front-back vowel harmony. Here is an Etruscan word list where you can check this statement: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Etruscan_word_list
The.minoas.pallaci..they..have.greek..letters.gramata.ALFA.BITA.GAMA.DELLTA.....THIS.CRIMINALS...I.FROM
.GREECE.....THIS.PROFESSOR...GAY...PROPAGADNA.FOUL..MINOAS.ONLY.WITH.ISPANIC..
This was really a wonderful introduction into the work of Dr. Revesz and his proposed origins of Minoan civilization, and its written and oral language antecedents through genetics, vowel harmony and other contributing factors. Thank you sir for your time and effort in putting together such a fine production. This is the first SAMA video I have watched. It won't be the last. I know that for certain. I also plan to watch Dr. Revesz's videos. I love his voice (and I'm part Hungarian, myself). A quick question: I know it's not strictly historical, but while on the subject of translations, have you ever done, or would you consider doing a video on the "Voynich Manuscript"? I have seen a few videos made by a father and his two sons who claim the puzzling manuscript was written in Old Turkic by someone who used phonetic spelling, because he was apparently unschooled in the proper spelling of words. They have translated whole pages of the book and their work is receiving the attention of serious scholars.
Before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age, non-Indo-European languages were spoken by farmers living in Europe. At the time of the Hungarian invasion in the 9th century, the number of warrior nomads arriving was only 5% of the number of farmers already living in the Carpathian basin. In addition, the arrivals were an alliance of 3 different language groups. So they could not bring the language known today as Hungarian to the Carpathian Basin.
For those who don't believe, I recommend:
Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, in his work The Geographical Formation of European Languages, recognizes Hungarian, which until now has been treated as a stepchild of Europe, as the founder of Europe's culture. According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe. "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age."
Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals in the IX. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction."
Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages.
13:00 there were some ideas that the Germanic language had very early influence by the Finno-Ugric. Kalevi Wiik, a Finnish professor claimed that Uralic influence is what turned Proto-Indo-European into Proto-Germanic.
Also isn't it possible for only some of the languages of one family to have vowel harmony?
I see no problem for a people (be it Hungarian, or whoever) migrating first to the east, then millennia later migrating back west. Many Indo-European people did it. For example the Roma. Turkic people did this too, Arabs, and so on.
Huns used a Turkic alphabet, very similar to Hungarian. I think Huns are most definitely not the same people as Hungarians, however, the two peoples might have had some connections in Central Asia / Siberia / Eastern Europe region, begore they migrated further west.
Btw greetings from the lower Danube :)
For you last paragraph: Turks used Hungarian (Sekler’s) alphabet. Hungarians are descendants of the Huns (as well). As you wrote above: First migrating to the East, then a millennia later back to the West. Evidences in our genoms: R1a1a. However Asian Huns’ type are less in Hungarian’s blood.
@@1970coconut R1a is slavic , you have nothing to do with the huns and alphabet and runes were turkic . Szekler is turkic people too . Maghiars of the 9th century were a mixture of turkic and uralic people . So , go play ozosep at another table .
@@seaman5705 Who writes this kind of idiotism, that a type of haplogroup (R1a) equals to a nation (e.g. Slavic), that is a paranoid. Could it be in the other hand significant to some nations from the Turks to Magyars and Slavs, who have had derived from the Turanid Plain.
About Seklers. Noone knows their exact origin, but is sure they were not settled only in nowadays Romania. Siculi meaning in Hungarian as guards, they were settled at the borders. Not only the Eastern, but also all around parts. Even not sure that they were Turkic speaking. However Alans (Iazygi) were surely Turkic speaking. My paternal Grandpa told pamuk for cotton, as it is in Turkish. They spoke their language up to the XVII. century. This kind of Turkic-language-traces has never been found amongst Seklers, in spite of their relative isolation from the other Magyars.
@@seaman5705 And who wrote here about the IX. century Magyars? Prof Révész spoke about a pre Hellenic era, when some nowadays used Hungarian words could be derived from. These Magyars are not equals to Árpád-magyars, are 6000 yrs elders. This is the point, where Genetics and Computer science overwrite the previous dogmas.
@@1970coconut You wrote about 9th century magyars as descendants of the huns which I call bullshit . Same for the alphabet , which came from the turks , not szeklers - there is no szekler language anymore, all speak hungarian . Nobody identifies a DNA clade with a nation, but slavs as indo-europeans carried R1a which was passed to all Eastern Europe including today's hungarians . Prof Revesz invents a theory without even considering Y-DNA - heard it before slightly changed from other hungarians who claimed to be the scythians . Something similar with some greeks which claim to have come in Europe at 15000-18000 bc and to have created all civilization - minoan, mycenian and classic . So, one more idiot than the other .
A Hungarian finds that the original Europeans were Hungarian. Not only that they created Europe's earliest civilization and the earliest writing system.
I think the people who moved into europe after the ice age adopted the language/culture of those already living there, while also slightly influencing it.
The egyptian migratory origin stories were right all along, but as different parts of europe started identifying among themselves instead of across the region, nativity became defined by those living there at the time, and the cultures that emerged from a specific area.
Peoplegroups are realistically only mutually recognizeable (both ethnically and culturally) for about 1000 years before regional identity, mutations and technology splits them from eachother.
At one point, there was a people migrating to Egypt, being the first recorded "sea peoples", but that people does not exist today because their ethnicity, technologic uniformity and identity has been erased or transformed into something entirely different.
Exactly. This is pure garbage science, and I am surprised to find it on this channel. Usually the owner of the channel takes great pleasure in debunking fringe claims such as this.
Very funny....
Stupid, right!
Kinda like how European researchers ALWAYS make findings that ancient archeological sites of Africa's Sahara, Nile Valley are Eurasian
Inferring genetic origins of the Minoans from mtDNA haplogroups alone seems quite a stretch. The genomic data shows they are a mix of mostly Early European Farmer with minor amounts of Western Hunter Gatherer and Caucuses derived populations. There's no reliable way beyond pure speculation to infer a language grouping of Minoan until someone breaks the code of the Linear A writing system.
Has his research been peer reviewed? If so, can it be shared here. Thanks
What about Y-DNA results of the Minoans??
@Black Gawdz The hp J originated most likely in the Caucasus. The Minoans had the subclade J2a while Arabs including carry the subclade J1. The Lemba have some Middle Eastern/Jewish admixture due to Arab/Yemenite Jewish traders that migrated to Africa. Minoans have no Arab or Levantine admixure.
Minoans are still closely related to modern people from Crete. And they lacked North African, Egyptian and Levantine admixture..
@Black Gawdz Oh I see, you're an Afrocentrist who tries in spite of the evidence to the contrary, to push the ridiculous Minoans were black myth. That is put to bed by DNA results. Minoans from 4000 years ago whose DNA was tested showed that they had no North African or Levantine admixture. You can deflect all you want, but you can't change the fact that Minoans were not black, they were not even North African- like. Again the Lembas have some Yemenite Jewish/Middle Eastern mix, and they are mostly Bantus. I read updated genetic studies on them. Besides, what do Lembas have to do with Minoans? Nothing. Yeah right, the white Minoan women according to Afrocentrists were of course a forgery. Pale Minoan women don't fit the Afrocentric narrative, so they have to resort into conspiracy theories. Why did the frauds only make the females look pale and left the males tanned and not made them white too? Besides, the tanned Minoan males look clearly Caucasian, just with a strong tan and not black in any shape, form or fashion. So even if the Minoan females were depicted tanned instead of pale, it doesn't help to validate the Afrocentric nonsense. Plus Afrocentrics back then never claimed Minoans nor anyone outside Africa.
@@gianlucarossi5672 ever heard of out of africa theory we were all black, lighter skin came latter study Japanese Dna or Chinese both from Africa. Stop being racist your great x10 was a black women. White can come from black but never have black come from white.
@@dontjustbeanotherbrickinthewal "My idea is right because if you think I'm wrong, that makes you a racist."
That is NOT an argument. Sorry
Well done. Outstanding work. I always thought it would be a computer scientist who might crack Linear A. I hope we are close.
Exploring this link to Asiatic language is interesting, but needs more confirmation from other sources.
Domingos CJM
I imagine Dr. Revesz feels much the same.
But the work in progress is intriguing. Hoping it continues and we are able to follow..
The water motif is also common among the Native American people?
The specific details are important because some wavy lines appear as a representation of water in many cultures. In the video example, a single zigzag line goes all around the edge of a rectangular region and each triangle formed by the zigzag line contains a single dot. This specific representation is not found in North America.
What a great talk.
Thanks so much for the video and info.
I truly enjoyed it! Thanks for watching and for commenting!
Love the video. But did anyone else notice that it was not an actual interview? It was two separate videos edited together to look like an interview.
This format might have worked better incase of slow internet speeds across continents. If anything, it's free, and more quality than some of my college history.
this sounds arrogant and ridiculous. he is Hungarian which is Finno-Ugric. he's obviously just trying to make a case for Finno-Ugric people being the original inhabitants of Europe. 🙄
It didn't sound like that me at all. Hungarian is not the same thing as Finnish or Ugarit , its a different language and different culture. Similarities does not male it the same. Is french and English the same? both have Germanic roots. You sound bias.
@@perretti Hungarian and Finnish are in the same language family. It doesn't matter what you personally think they sound like. These two languages are related to each other.
I miss you Nick. You are excellent. Thank you Dr.!!!!
I am not sure about his non biased approach ....there was no Hungary back then....no Sir....nothing of the kind until the beggining of 11 th century a.d.Magyars were a migratory 7 tribes from Asia ....This a fact nobody dare to deny....if he is a real scholar....
…it’s important to note that the speaker is not discussing countries per se, he is discussing language groups - Proto Finno-Ugric…. NO COUNTRY NAMES are cited…
He said "present day Hungary"
Before the arrival of the Indo-Europeans in the Bronze Age, non-Indo-European languages were spoken by farmers living in Europe. At the time of the Hungarian invasion in the 9th century, the number of warrior nomads arriving was only 5% of the number of farmers already living in the Carpathian basin. In addition, the arrivals were an alliance of 3 different language groups. So they could not bring the language known today as Hungarian to the Carpathian Basin.
For those who don't believe, I recommend:
Grover S. Krantz (1931-2002), a world-renowned American anthropologist and professor at Washington State University, in his work The Geographical Formation of European Languages, recognizes Hungarian, which until now has been treated as a stepchild of Europe, as the founder of Europe's culture. According to him, the u.n. "Indo-European languages" developed very late in Europe. That is why 30% of their vocabulary is not of "Indo-European" origin, and there are no "Indo-European" river names on the early maps of Europe. "...so the Greek language was formed in its current location in 6500 BC, and the Celtic language in Ireland in 3500 BC. The antiquity of the Hungarian language in the Carpathian Basin is similarly surprising; I find that its origins lead to the Mesolithic, preceding the Stone Age."
Furthermore: "At least on one important point, the theory of people's migration is the opposite of the previous theorem. It is generally believed that the Hungarians of the Urals in the IX. century, they moved into the Carpathian basin from an eastern area. I find that all groups speaking the Uralic language spread from Hungary, in a much earlier age, in the opposite direction."
Grover S. Krantz, The Geographical Formation of European Languages.
So Hungary had a population of zero until the Magyars turned up? Pull the other leg, it's got bells on.
Very interesting and educational speech as
Link to the Etruscans?:
it is top secret code "minerva"
The Minoan language seems to be a relative of the anatolian neolithic Hattic language.
Hattic language is an agglutinative language like finnougric, but it uses prefixation instead of postfixation unlike the finnougric languages.
The idiom of Phaistos disc seems to be a relative of Hattic language
Language of the disc has reduplication of root (blocks A3, A15) and well elaborated prefixation; it means that Minoan can probably be relative of Anatolian languages...
www.researchgate.net/publication/320149693_The_idiom_of_Phaistos_disc_seems_to_be_a_relative_of_Hattic_language
The Hattic language does not belong to the Anatolian branch of Indo-European languages. It is a pre-Indo-European language like Minoan. There is a great variation within the Finno-Ugric languages in terms of the number of prefixes they have. Hattic seems to have a large number of prefixes, but Hungarian also has a large number of prefixes. Hence being agglutinative but using prefixes does not exclude the possibility that Hattic is also a Finno-Ugric language. Several people made the observation that Hattic and Minoan are likely related languages, including Alexander Akulov, whom you cited. I also think that Hattic and Minoan are related languages. I completely agree with this idea as shown in one of my journal articles: www.wseas.org/multimedia/journals/information/2017/a605909-068.pdf
@@PeterRevesz Thank you for your reply. I hope you don't mind if I am skeptical regarding you theory.
I meant pre-indo-european by writing anatolian language. Perhapse I should write anatolic?
I speak natively Hungarian.
Beszélek magyarul és tudom, hogy a magyar a ragokat kedveli inkább, mint az előtagokat.
(I speak hungarian and I know that the Hungarian language prefers postfixes instead of prefixes)
Hungarian like other finnougric languages uses SVO word order - subject-verb-object.
Linera A seems to be VSO order (verb-subject-object). This is by Doctor Brent Davis, a linguist and archaeologist at the University of Melbourne on wikipedia inder the Minoan language.
Hattic language (non indo-european language) has also VSO order (wikipedia).
So Hattic could be related to the Minoan language.
There is also one interesing correspondence on paleolexicon:
zari [hattic] mortal, man Linear A sa-rja 'person' (?), often corresponding an ideogram for people
www.palaeolexicon.com/Hattic
There is a hattic god calles Están, which is in hittite (neshili indo-european language) Ishtanu. This is similar to Hungarian Isten, but could be derived from Yeniseian language.
You say that there was a break in Minoan culture. You are right.
At the end of the MMII period (1700 BC) there was a large disturbance on Crete-probably an earthquake, but possibly an invasion from Anatolia. The palaces at Knossos, Phaistos, Malia and Kato Zakros were destroyed. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_civilization
Anitta (17. c BC) utterly destroyed and cursed the Hatti capital. The later Hittite kings had to completely rebuild the city. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piyusti
So perhaps the hittite (neshili) invasion caused mass immigration to Crete.
@@MDchan Brent Davis' analysis has some subtle problems that are too complex to describe here, but here are some more obvious problems: (1) The word order was not always SVO in Hungarian. (2) Using Linear B sound values for Linear A was an unfruitful exercise for the past 80 years. (3) There is no evidence that the Hattic people had any writing. Hence the Hattic people would be unlikely to have brought the Linear A script to Crete around 1700 BC (when it first appeared, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minoan_chronology) even if it was about the same time when Hattusa was destroyed.
Thanks for speaking more naturally. Sounds great!
1:03 How big is the ring? Is it more man's size or women's size? Could be from one lover to another.
Boshevski and Tentov concluded that the Demotic script of the Rosetta stone was "indeed" Slavic but that doesnt mean they were right!
Has no one here heard of the neolithic "Old Europe"? It lasted from the northern Carpathians all the way to Crete. It was a relatively uniform Neolithic culture that was the most advanced part of Europe. It is very likely that the same language was spoken in his territory. Don't be disbelieving, but let's read it!
There are words and names in Japan that are spelled and pronounced exactly the same way as Ibo language in Nigeria. There are names for women in Ibo with the same spelling and pronunciation as names for women in Japan. The meanings and significances are completely different, however. Etymology only helps if the people were close geographically, or there is a known genetic link. Because the human brain functions the same around the world, there will be similarities/ crossovers. This doesn't represent a direct lineage.
Sorting out the "what is what" by people with the knowledge not just gives you the AHA! but teach out how to get to the relevant konklusions. In times where most of us live by small and short sensations we all need to "get into things and the thinking".
His whole and only point is that Hungarians are the oldest nation. In Balkans you have at least 10 such guys pet country, this is ridiculous.
is this just a video that has been cut up and then u ask a question on the subject matter knowing it is pre recorded.
would the other guy be pissed if that's the case
A big thank you to Dr Revesz for sharing with us. I note that the symbol showed for fig has the value NI because in those times fig was called 'Nikoulion' and not siko as in Greek. I have also heard of the word 'Kounalion'
As for Linear A, I believe the language is the same as that spoken in Anatolia, near Hatti Land as the Minoans carry 2 same cultural elements: palace structure and religion (mother nature, bear, axe, bull, red colour painting).
I still debate whether the people from Balkans introduced the writing system to mesopotamians, Levant and Crete.
Hi. In “Termcraft: The emergence of terminology science from the Vincans and Sumerians to Aristotle” by Lambert, a table proposes examples of possible sign continuity between Vincan (Vintchan), Mesopotamia, the Nile, and Linear B. The sources are Petrie, quoted in Winn (Pre-Writing in Southeastern Europe, 248-249, from a list of 82 Vinca-type signs out of 210, Winn lists 50 signs that are comparable to Nilotic signs (pre 3200, from Petrie), 46 to Aegean signs (2500-1150, from Edgar and Hogarth), and 45 to Trojan signs (post 3000 BCE, from Schliemann); Haarmann; Singh. Cheers.
Peter = "to pnigei to kouneli " & siga re ta sika we tell in greek !
Can you please tell me what the music is at the beginning of the video?
really interesting talk and daring hypotheses. I'll have to admit that I am one of the skeptical kind and for the danube basin being some kind of enduring finno-ugric language homeland, one would like to see a people group being attested to live there during the bronze and iron age speaking a language of that family. I would like to know if there are any contestants....
Could there be a link with the Cucuteni-Trypillia Culture? Just an idea....
We are from Siberia. Hungarians too, but we Finns and Hungarians are never been neighbours.
Finns and Same are from north Siberia, Hungarians south.
th-cam.com/video/9FuhLvyrZkQ/w-d-xo.html
Very scholarly information. Explained in simple manner.
I need to watch this again, so much information, and a lovely accent. 🙂
Thanks for another great video share. This one looks very interesting.
Thanks for watching and for showing support!
This is very interesting, and this guy's theory sounds plausible. I hope people investigate it further.
I am going back to school at some point so I can publish my paper on the cultural influence of Neolithic and chalcolithic Iberian peoples over early Minoan civilization
Not so fast. Ancient Iberian people were also agglutinative language speakers, so indeed, the might be related. One remnants are the Basques.
An Hungarian supporting the theory that Minoans are Finno-Ugric.
Literally the whole world is laughing.
Yes, because? How about all Europeans trying to prove Indo-European origins in everything? The whole world is laughing? No. If European researchers would consider regularly Finno-Ugric too we might have had some advances. But they do not, so who else do you think would be studying these if not a Hungarian? if a Hungarian finds something in this direction then the findings are discredited because he is Hungarian? Other would have found it too if they reserched it but they did not.
How do we know for sure that there is only 1 vowel? Some languages today, like the word "language" has 2 vowels next to each other, as do the words "each" and "seed", "group".
The design mentioned also appears on irish archaeology
The Neolithic culture spread from Southeastern Europe to Western Europe and that spread may have carried with it some of the motifs. Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
The design mentioned could also be found in South America too....
@@anastasiachristakos2480 Could you please give a link to the particular motif that you found or send me a copy of it using the email on my homepage? Thank you.
The Danube Basin. However, earlier, it may have been more the cultures now sunken into today’s Black Sea. But, I have reasons to believe proto-Hungarian before the Black Sea inundation, originated in the Putoranskiy region towards the Sakha Republic in Northern Siberia. Defrosting of the tundra may prove me right, especially when we understand temporary poleshift better. Dieter L. Frischknecht / Rüschlikon, Switzerland.
Sounds like a Hungarian version of Deretić. Very very speculative.
Was this edited to make it shorter? It just feels weird, like you filmed the questions after the presentation.
Sounds weird that a well motif would be important around the Danube watershed. If anything it would be a valued technology in areas turning arid. The well looks like a formal Indian open well with stairs. But I’m stretching it. I don’t doubt that Crete was a very important entrepôt that connected the people’s north, south, east and west. I’m intrigued by the proposition that Linear A and Minoan could have finno-ugric influence.
😐 Shut up
@@thebrocialist8300 are you ok?
I’m sure that the well is a mistranslation: how can an animal drink from a well.
It’s probably a water hole/ditch, which has some magic powers, like turning people into animals or something like that
Definitely not a well
@@MagicalCrimea these memes tend to origin at the seat if sophisticated power. A well and its reverence would develop graphically around a palace structure. The graphic imagery reminds me of staircase wells in India. Then there is the concept of a natural garden and paradise lost. I don’t know how such a powerful nostos could develop in the Danube basin! Easy to see it develop in semi-arid areas that depend on seasonal rain and arid river basins in North Africa, Anatolia, the Levant and Near East. This research however points to the extensive trade reach of Crete and the cross-influence on neighbouring empires, migrations and the power dynasties moving around vast territories. We shouldn’t be too restrictive in interpreting new ideas.
@@MagicalCrimea you are restricting the interpretation very diverse cultures make of a developing meme. Formal interpretations of imagery only happen in highly structured societies with overbearing religious cults. I live in a small rural town and see the loose interpretation of catholic imagery compared to what would be highly structured in larger cities with a rich church hierarchy. Repurposing imagery is normal but origins tend to point towards a seat of power advertising itself and shaping public opinion.
This was very comprehensive. thank you!
Very interesting. I certainly have heard of vowel drift. It's why English sounds so different in all it's areas.
It never occurred to me that in some languages this doesn't happen.
Being half Finnish, this was fun!
No ot is not, this theories are pathetic🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
About time we got to have this kind of information.
The mythological connection between Thrace.and Crete is based on the cult of Dionysus of mount Ida. Orpheus was initiated in Crete. Fino Ugric populations arrived on European soil by migrating westward from Siberia. These populations were not known to be seafaring at all to reach Crete!!
The old theory of Finno-Ugric origins from Siberia is contradicted by recent archaeogenetic evidence that shows that the migrations from Siberia brought in non-Finno-Ugric Huns and related people to Hungary: www.researchgate.net/publication/343330818_Genetic_evidence_suggests_a_sense_of_family_parity_and_conquest_in_the_Xiongnu_Iron_Age_nomads_of_Mongolia
@@PeterRevesz , so what you're claiming now is that the Finno-Ugric language family developed in the Danube Valley, but that a bunch of non-FU's ended up there but started speaking the language?
And so the similarity of the F-U languages to Samoyedic is just... coincidence?
C'mon, man.
Word of advice..Take everything a historian (50+ or older) from Eastern Europe says..with a huge mountain of salt..Most of them suffer from the "we wuz kangz" syndrome and see everything deriving from their national identity..
Thoroughly satisfied with this interview
and as that I recently got my DNA readout I understood things like haplo grouping & such 😀 😁 Minoans fascinate me , although we now know
that we actually don't know what they called themselves as that Minoa comes to us from a greek legend about a king named Minor ✅
Yes , my distant relative genetically spent a life time or two in Greece , probably part of the migration in Paleolithic times and I also decended
from way up north , sweedon . ..❤
Thanks so much 😍
No, we who researched know exactly: they were the Caphtorites and Caslukhites from which came Philistines
🤦♂️I have never heard such stupidity in my whole life, i mean that guy is really pathetic and to give him more than an hour on such lame theories is even more))) He actually linked Finnic/Magyars peoples (Scythians - white Sibirian north Eurasians) with the Minoans (Egyptian race of sea peoples)🤣🤣🤣 Debating with people who think they were of Greek origins is understandable, but this??? wтf
Man, ads have gotten bad on this channel...oh well...
When computer guys do biology and genetics....ugh...
Thank you.
Oneather not real facts but just theory , one time they say etruskian can translate from Hungarian , and now the acient kurites ( kritiki ) are Hungarian !!! This is a joke
peter "to pnigei to kouneli" the joke it is not peter.... we are the joke he is for slaps
This man is a genius. No question about it.
Uh... might want to read some of the negative comments on this thread. You might rethink your assessment. I'm sure he's a terrific computer scientist, but maybe better stay in your swim lane.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well you may be right at least regarding the computer science aspect, that's what I was mostly focusing on. The use of the computer program in translating ancient languages is very well thought out.
@@vote4dahv411 , Well, maybe. I'm a tech layman, so I can't speak to his CS acumen. But I seem to remember an acronym from the early 90's: GIGO. As far as the analysis is concerned, he's putting in the data which may, spuriously, support (or appear to support) his hypothesis, and then when it comes out, hey presto, looks like he proved his case.
Nearest analogy I can think of this early in the morning is that you might as well set out to prove that chocolate is good for you. If chocolate's the only thing you analyze, sure, it'll show that it contains calcium and cacao has a few trace vitamins. But your overall conclusion will be wrong.
In short, this guy is trying to draw a connection between two completely disparate peoples on the flimsiest of bases, that both languages use suffixes to indicate case change. Well, cripes, so do most Slavic languages and about a zillion others. And most disturbingly, in doing so, he's advancing the case that the Hungarian ethnogenesis was in the Danube valley, which would validate the Magyars' claims to Pannonia (which isn't even in dispute).
This is pure pseudoscience, and worse, it's based on conscious lies. No one has deciphered Linear A, and no one's likely to. The speakers of Finno-Ugric languages, including the Magyars, originated on the central Asian steppes. And the closest connection between the Minoans and the proto-Magyars is that both peoples had two nostrils.
@@jimpalmer2981 Well I wouldn't necessarily say it's pure pseudoscience. From the data I read it mostly suggests that the Proto-Minoan's at least spoke the language of the Proto-Hungarians. Not to say that you're wrong, I just know that languages which are close geographically, in particular trade languages, borrow words, phrases, and sometimes even grammar techniques, as can be found with many Semitic languages.
For me, I look at the quality of the translation of the Phaistos disk compared to previous ones and this is the most clear, (again my opinion) that we have so far. Given the context where it was found and using this methodology, it makes more sense than previous translations. Regarding the other arguments such as him promoting the ethnogenesis of Hungary that's an argument I'm not well versed in so I can't say either way.
@@vote4dahv411 , well, let's address those one by one.
No one knows if the "proto-Minoans" spoke the language of the proto-Hungarians, because no one has yet deciphered Linear A, and no one knows what language family, if any, the Minoan language belonged to. It could very well have been an isolate. It's worth noting, moreover, that Michael Ventris, the guy who actually deciphered Linear B, believed that Linear A was connected to Etruscan, but he never claimed to have discovered any concrete connection. But there is zero reason to think that the languages are connected in any way.
Secondly, those languages were NOT close geographically. Revesz claims that the Hungarian ancestor language originated in the Danube basin, which is just completely wrong. No one else in the world thinks this, and the evidence that the Ugric languages originated in Central Asia is beyond overwhelming. There would have been zero contact between Ugric speakers and Minoan speakers. None.
Thirdly, the Phaistos disk has NOT been "translated." There have been zillions of claims to have translated it... all have been proved completely false.
Easter Island, Linear A, the Pyramids... all these ancient phenomena attract kooks. Whenever anyone, especially anyone outside the related disciplines, claims to have deciphered Linear A, nod politely, step back, make no sudden moves, and alert the authorities.
Α mixture of insignificant elements and great imagination with an obvious purpose. It reaches the levels of propaganda.
It's just Orbán's propaganda.
RIP, Nick, and thank you.
I'm glad we've all reached a consensus about the Minoans African Origins.🌍✊🏿💥
We wuz minnows 🐟
We wuz kangz a shiet.
@@MrJoebrooklyn1969 you must be a caveman you still some what resemble your forefathers.
@@dior2939 my forefathers had an Empire while yours didn't even have a wheel.
@Black Gawdz well, first of all, recent DNA has shown that modern day Greeks share 92% of the DNA of the Myceneans and Menoans. The "invasion", your speaking of was of the Dorians in 1000 BC and make up a small portion of the DNA of modern Greeks. So I know your life is sad and you need to make up history for yourself and your race because you've accomplished nothing but the truth shall set u free.
A good friend of mine found out that he had a genetic disease that only affected people from Finland and Malta. Now I know how that is possible
Dr Revesz, you discussed mitochondrial DNA lineages. However, I have an extremely rare y-DNA lineage of the J2 haplogroup and M319 mutation. The only place in the world where this lineage exists today in world >0.1% is Crete where it is present about 9% and has also been found in Minoan era skeletons from around 3200 bce in mountains of eastern Crete. However, I have found a few DNA near-matches online from Syria, Kuwait and India. Furthermore, J2-M319 is reported today among a few Tamil villages in India. Additionally, I have read that some frescoes from Santorini depict a grey monkey from south Asia. Therefore, I wonder if there could be an early bronze age genetic connection between Crete and the Indus Valley Civilization since some believe the Tamil people originated there. There is a related, J2 parent lineage in Anatolia, but not my M319 specific branch. I realize that this does not match your mtDNA findings well but there seems to be something to be discovered in this.
This actually matches my theory that the Minoans were genetically composed of a group that directly came from the Near East (where J2-M319 may belong) and another group that came later from the Danube Basin and had a mixture of Near Eastern and European Hunter-Gatherer origins.
@Black Gawdz I think that it is possible that some of the early colonizers of Crete came from Egypt and had black skin. My analyis only shows that the Charalambos samples from the Middle Minoan period have a connection to the Danube Basin.
@@PeterRevesz Thanks for the reply. I have read a lot of research on DNA and history and I have noticed that movement of mt-DNA lineages can sometimes mean the migration of families while the movement of y-DNA may only imply movement of male traders, explorers or invaders.
@@andrewblackard3369 That is absolutely correct. If you are interested in more details about this topic please visit my channel.
@@PeterRevesz This paper in Nature may help your research. It also shows significant geographic differentiation in the y-DNA haplogroups on ancient Crete. I wonder if you can correlate this with your other mt-DNA data. www.nature.com/articles/5201769#fig2