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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Was the S&W Model 13 .357 Magnum revolver a bad choice???
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He's been an FBI agent, a Ranger, a Navy Seal...but his most dangerous job...middle school teacher!!!
Most dangerous, and lowest paying unfortunately
@@tonyyao4785he was a professional basketball player too.
Had to work unarmed !
@@tonyyao4785 Don't believe the propaganda about the pay.
Secret Service Agent?😅
What do you call an FBI barbecue party.
A steak out.
I was gonna say pride parade
They have to "set up" the grill
Pig on pig crime.
Why did the FBI surround the president with cows? They were beefing up security!”
I'll do the grilling here!
Easy to load, easy to operate, NO slide to rack, NO slide bite, NO fail to feed/eject, NO magazines. Yep, revolvers are COOL!
And in modern times, less effective than a semi-auto (as a carry weapon).
@@roji556 You did not understand his point.
ONLY 6 rounds as well
As a perp i wouldn't want to be looking down the barrel of either.@@roji556
As a perp I wouldn't want to be looking down the barrel of either. @@roji556
Thanks for never giving up on the channel and thanks for fighting TH-cam on their bs
you tube is just a extension of far left.
When it started it was great . But the left ruins everything they touch .
@@frankdillon6127 You seem to like it here.
@@REL602 sure what`s not to like if your a American 2nd adm lover.
I was so pissed to hear about yOu Tube needless censorship. They must be Republicans where they want to control you and most other aspects of life.
They went from a shot placement mindset to the spray and pray mindset.
Anyone else hear how beautifully he mentioned the sponsors without mentioning what they do, so that the channel can still have them? >:)
Shhhhh ;)
So they are winning.
@@will7its the left makes us do things we hate, just to survive, maybe all this BS will run its course and we can get back to normalcy . MAGA !!!
Good for the shout-out to Ballistol. Othias and Mae would agree!
"How boutchu, cowboy" made me chuckle, thanks for the content
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🤠
Thank you Mr. Hickok for your educational content and your continued service in teaching us the lore around these historical devices. While not everyone may appreciate learning about tools of a trade, I'm sure more than a few people here do.
I was a pilot (aircraft commander) in Vietnam. I was issued a S&W 38 special but no holster. I purchased a buffalo hide holster in the local ville and when the XO voiced his displeasure I asked for an issue holster, and that ended the discussion. The crew chief was issued an M16. I acquired an M1 carbine with banana clips which I carried in the aircraft.
Your XO probably wound up as an incompetent middle manager.
Mr. Hickok, You've probably forgotten more about firearms than most of us will ever learn! Thanks for all these years of expertise you've shared! Blsgs, gg🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸👌👌😊
My first carry gun, as a armed security guard here in TX, was a Ruger GP 100, in stainless, 4" barrel, great side arm, when I got my LTC, Ruger became my home defense gun, then later traded it off, for a new Ruger 22 bolt action, still wish I had it at times, was a great revolver, tough as anything
That was the first gun I bought after I got my LTC. I competed in PCP with it, went through two courses with Massad Ayoob with it, and it's on my nightstand right now.
They tend to make less "mistakes" and more "actions with plausible incompetence."
Or plausible deniability.
“We’ve investigated ourselves and found we’ve done nothing wrong.”
EXACTLY
And they always hide behind the "plausible deniability" excuse when called to testify.
Just like the Secret Service?
It's a very beautiful revolver! That time peroid of revolvers was amazing!
Dankeschön Mister hickok,ihre fachmännischen Kommentare sind immer sehr erfreulich, Grüße aus der Steiermark, Österreich,thanks 😊
The revolver: "The Original Point and Click Interface" - My carry weapons are revolvers.
In the early 1970s, I carried a .44 magnum revolver for self-defense when working on my parents gold claim. My father trained me well and one of the things he emphasized was that a firearm, although is a very powerful tool, is not your only tool when thinking of self-defense. For that reason, I never felt insecure even though I only had five rounds loaded.
Later, when I stood guard duty in the Navy, I carried A 1911 .45 ACP. That is a wonderful side arm and even though I only had seven rounds, I did carry a spare mag and I also never felt insecure.
I would say if you are a civilian carrying a firearm for self-defense, don’t forget your other options.
Your channel is second to none, thank you for all you do.
Every video in this channel is a new history lesson
My open carry is a old 70’s Detective Model Snubnose .357 Mag when I’m in NC. I love it. My father gave it tome with the .44 Automatic from Dirty Harry on my 18th Birthday. I used my .357 as a snake gun fishing and whenever I was hiking and just putting around town. My mag has never failed me,never jammed and never not laid down a solid round. I believe it should be a back up or ankle gun for all law enforcement agencies. LoudLove
a book i read suggested using a snake load as the first round in a revolver. the theory being it's less likely to miss entirely on a desperate first shot and would distract long enough to get a solid second shot
" I cannot speak to the matter as it is an ongoing investigation ".
👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
NYPD still allowed some officers to carry revolvers up until about 2016. The USAF also was still using revolvers well into the 2000s.
I did some drywall work at Crane Naval Base in the mid 90's in Southern Indiana. The gate guards all were carrying revolvers. I noticed mainly S&W and Ruger 38's with 4 inch barrels and all were blued. The most unusual revolver I seen was a S&W 38 special Victory Model.
They may have been contract security @@shadowwolf9503
USAF basic (1963) onlyhad to qualify with M16, no handgun. In ‘66 I was in 1st Mob in the PI and had to courier some stuff to our team supporting the Marines at Khe Sanh. Checking out a weapon, I was handed a 1911. I had no idea how to use an automatic pistol and I told the Armorer if I tangled with the enemy I would have to throw that 1911 at him. He asked if I ever played cowboys and Indians? Yup. He handed me a 38 in a holster. I was good to go. 👍😊
All government agencies should carry muzzle loaders...
Definitely seems like their latest operation didn't go according to plan.
That was the SS
Agent Clarice Starling carried one, just ask "Buffalo Bill"
That she did. If I recall from Red Dragon book, Will Graham used the Bulldog 44 special.
Bill could’ve killed Starling but for some reason felt the need to cock his revolver!
Thought she carried a 38
@@wongsifu4603 inch S&W Model 13 357 Magnum loaded with 158GN 38SPL +P SJHP
One of the best guns S&W ever did for L.E.
Why I carry, I'm a retired Deputy Sheriff, I'm 68 years old, I have physical disabilities courtesy of a texting driver, I have a wife that's 35 years old and we have young children. Since I'm 68 with physical disabilities it is still my duty to protect my family by any means. I took an oath to support the constitution and I still feel that obligation even though I'm retired 10 years now
So you’re divorced and re married is what you are saying?
How’s the 33 year age gap treating you?
@@mrlivemoreshe's glad he has a great life insurance policy...lol
Imagine being such a loser you feel the need to comment on the man’s personal life
@@mrlivemoreYou should be asking him how the midlife crisis is going…
Very special agent Hickok45
And way more suave and debonair than Very Special Agent Tony DiNozzo!
Special indeed 😂
They tried the 10mm first, destroyed the all metal semi auto pistol S&W made for them and sent it back. When asked what they sot in it, only max +P loads in practice and duty round. Too much recoil for some, S&W cut down the case until they got the 40 S&W. After the Miami shootout, they believed the 9mm was not enough. The agents just had a really bad day unfortunately.
One Mistake? They make a lot of Mistakes.
😂
I have a nickname for them but my comment will disappear by YT.
Plural, for sure.
I like their recommendation that the laptop was a Russian Psyop.
But were they REALLY mistakes, or just acceptance of incompetence because of who they were "protecting"?
I love revolvers I carried a 686 for several years still have it.
I don't have any revolvers but was thinking of that one... I have a hard time justifying as I already have a few other things, and all except the mossberg use the same ammo.
Before speed loaders, we had dump pouches. Bottom drop into your hand, loose rounds and you had to reload and engage target with time limits. Not easy!
Been there, done that. Bought the tshirt.
The NYPD was one of the last major police departments to retire revolvers for service duty.
They are highly reliable and easier to maintain than most semi-auto pistols.
You can field clean a revolver in like 5 minutes
That’s true i rode along with NY PD in the late 1990’s. I was a street cop in AZ and we carried Sig 226 9mm’s but the NY guys I was riding with carried 38’s still.
With 30,000+ cops it's no wonder the NYPD drug its heels at changing over.
I got my first revolver a few months ago and I think I'm hooked now
It's on my list, I thought it would be good to have at least one. I like the simplicity if it, and I've had the occasional jam up at the range with my semi, and I always think, what if this happened at the wrong time in the middle of the night. I liked the 4" barrel of this one a lot when I tried it a while back, since it seemed to minimize the recoil. They're so expensive. I have a cheap PSA dagger that I like, so it feels hard to justify paying 4x more.
hickok is the only pot smoker i enjoy watching
Randy Weaver says: Yes
Richard Jewell would agree
@@imilliemedina666 Don't forget Stephen Hatfill
Rest in peace, Randy Weaver.
Rest in piss, FBI.
My first gun was a 642 s&w revolver j-frame, love that thing fits nice in the pocket and all you gotta do is pull it out and shoot. Of course I’ve got multiple guns after I got my revolver but I don’t think i could ever let go of it out of the others I own, just has sentimental value to it but definitely worth the money
Thank y'all for the great videos.
I'm at the 70 year mark, and i grew up with revolvers and 1911 45acp.
I have to admit my first love is 1911 45 acp. Greatest love 357 mag in any revolver.
At the time, I was growing and learning, 9mm only had ball ( fmj ) pretty anemic at best. The 380 was a 9mm short, same on ammo, better than sharp stick.
I had more confidence in my H&R 22 lr revolver. Until I got my 1911 45 acp, again though mostly ball ammo, but a big slug with stopping power. It was good till I got my first Colt Trooper MK III in 357 mag.
I have enough confidence in the 357, I would feel comfortable on the plains of Africa or the back streets of downtown. I always figured 6 rounds of 357 would beat a full mag of 9 mm. Currently looking for 3 inch S&W model 19, 66, 13, anything as long as its 357 for everyday carry.
YES, this was one of many mistakes FBI has made.
You’re a Gem Hickock45 so glad you’re back , wish we had a lot more like you in this crazy world
I checked both the FBI's website and Snopes and both confirmed that the FBI doesn't make mistakes.
The S&W 1076 begs to differ. But that was probably down in the fine print footnotes on those webpages. 😉
LOL! Good one!
You’re funny
😂
Fact check true.
Revolvers don't leave shell casings! ;-)
Well said.
Well said.
@@BillieBoyd-ng2qv well well well said
TALON grips ATS. Got one on both edc pistols. I rotate between the 26gen5 and Ruger ec9s. Great addition to combat sweaty or wet hands slipping from the frame.
I’ve got 2 S&W revolvers. One is a 6 shooter, the other is a 7 shooter. When I use .357 magnums at the range, everyone comes over to see if I am shooting .50 cal. Talk about silky smooth and error free. Never had a misfire. The semi’s have the magazine advantage.
The difference when you have 5 rds of .38 and the 6th is .357 is massive!!! 🙉
@@Firemedic2105 For sure, you on need one .357 hit.
The Air Force was still issuing the S&W Model 15 when I enlisted in the 80s. We were also issued 130gr ball ammo. We had that until the M9 came on the scene in 1985.
Before the 1986 FBI Miami shootout guns were something of a afterthought for the FBI.
38 super, 1911(a1)
That was when you had to have a law degree or accounting degree to get a job with the FBI. Neither group was famous for being gun nuts or firearms proficient.
They still are. The wonder nines are for appearances and agent confidence.
@@johngaither9263 well I thought 38 super from bonnie and clyde time?
I qualified and carried a model 65 in the early 80’s at the Sheriffs office back in the day. Loved that revolver.
FBI used the .357 Magnum from 1935 until 1991! Excellent cartridge, but crime changes required changes in capacity. And some folks are recoil sensitive!
Yeah, DEI's can't handle most handguns. BB guns are next.
Funny enough, a guy with a .357 Mag revolver and shot placement ended the 1986 miami shootout while high capacity semi autos sprayed and ran dry with all misses except one (maybe two) less than effective shots.
And the take away everyone makes is “high capacity and more power is needed!”
Paul Harrell did a great video on the FBI shootout
I think there's definitely value in the idea that lower capacity makes you more conscious about landing good shots. To add on to that, is it appropriate for the basic officer to unload 30 rounds into (and through) a structure before activating a more well-trained and capable team? I don't think any other job works that way, my policy at work has never been "you go ahead and throw everything at it, fuck up the whole situation, and then call for help"
Ed Mireles ended the fight with his Model 586 .357, but both Ron Risner and Jerry Dove inflicted fatal wounds on Michael Platt (9mm Silvertip rounds) but he was able to continue fighting long enough to kill both Dove and Ben Grogan, with the failure of the Silvertips to stop resulting in the development of the 10mm and then the .40 S&W.
@@garytucholl7699 Paul Harrell actually did another video on the “failure of Silvertips” more recently (before his medical problems set in). You can go see for yourself but the final conclusion is that the failure of Silvertip 115 gr 9mm has been overstated. Also, there was more effective 9mm even back then that the FBI failed to take notice of (the 9BPLE+p+ 115 gr JHP)
I seem to remember that part of the reason for the move away from revolvers after the Miami shootout was that the wounded agents had an issue reloading their revolvers one handed. Or am I confusing it with a different incident?
@@peternorton5648 well that issue stemmed more from the fact that those guys were actually NOT using speedloaders as late as the mid 1980s.
The Newhall Shooting about 15 years earlier was what really brought about the use of speedloaders for revolvers because of supposed problems reloading from dump pouches or cartridge loops. I don’t know why the FBI had not picked up on it.
Fascinating video.
And good luck with your work as TH-cam continues it silliness moving forward.
I started my law enforcement career in 1981. That’s what I was issued. In 1983 they allowed us to upgrade to S&W 686 .357. The reloading was atrocious.
That’s your fault. The speedloader was legit.
I agree. The glock I have now after retirement is way more effective than any revolver I was ever issued. It took me a while to come around but I'm here now.
Still beats throwing rocks by a fair margin.
I started my law enforcement career in 1986 with a smith and Wesson 66. I spent quite a bit of time practicing reloads with a speed lloader. 357 mag is adequate for a pistol round and accuracy was outstanding.
yep me too, had one in 1985 out of the academy but i quickly purchased a S&W 586 357 mag that was nickel. All the street Chuds were impressed with the shiny gun.
In my home state of WA (and a number of others), the State Troopers carried S&W .357 revolvers into the 80s as well, with power and reliability over the new "wonder nines" being a big reason. They also had Winchester 30-30s as their available long gun, again, into the early 80s. One of their academy instructors mentioned that right after the switch to 9mm (Beretta I think) he pulled over a large group of 40 or so banditos (a western US motorcycle gang) and noted as he got out of his patrol car that he now had enough ammo on his belt to have a least a round for each of them (should the need arise).
Everything you said is true. But the Miami shootout in 1986 brought the change. Firearm technology and the increasing presence of well-armed criminals literally pushed the revolver out as a primary carry firearm for paramilitary and military. The North Hollywood shootout in 1997 was another example. You just need a lot more bullets in a real big hurry in such cases. I was one of those LEOs from that era who started with a revolver - we were good with those - but was quite ready to move up to Berettas and Smiths by the 80's...they were just more gun. And, if you remember the movie made about the Miami shootout, the bad guy played by David Soul did all his damage AFTER being fatally wounded in the initial exchange of gunfire. There are just times when, even with excellent shot placement, you'll need a lot more bullets!
As I remember it the perp was shot through the upper arm and into the chest with a 9mm didnt penetrate to the heart. The FBI then went to 147grain subsonic. Failure of the.9mm caused the FBI to abandon the 9mm in favo 6:46 r of a reduced loading of the 10mm Smith and Wesson then came out with the same ballistic loading in a 9mm size pistol and we got the 40 s&w
Funny enough, a guy with a .357 Mag revolver and shot placement ended the miami shootout while high capacity semi autos sprayed and ran dry with all misses except one (maybe two) less than effective shots.
And the take away everyone makes is “high capacity and more power is needed!”
Paul Harrell did a great video on the FBI shootout
Miami was a kind of bellwether. And yes, there was a procession of pistols and loads - with 10mm being too hot for slight-framed individuals (i.e. women). So the .40 caliber was born. Now here's the thing: You can talk about shot placement and tactics until the cows come home, but gunfights - at least the kinds in American urban and suburban environments - can be fast and furious. Adrenalin, cover (or lack of it), and distance can skew things all kinds of ways. Basically, more & bigger are better. For the law enforcement officer who wants to go home to his/her family that day, a solid semi-auto with a lot of bullets - and good back up which is typically a revolver - makes for a good life insurance policy.
@@robertwarden8408 I agree with that but the truth is the 115 grain jacked hollowpoint the FBI was using that day over expanded and did not penetrate enough if it had been a frontal shot to the chest it would have been a immediate stop on the other hand a 158 grain round nose 38 it would have went through the chest and likely been a one shot stop not that it is a better round but for that particular point of impact it probably would have been in most instances it would not be if the 9mm would have been a 120 FMJ it would have penetrated better also but usually they dont stop perps as well it was a case of everything lineing up to cause the failure nothing works every time for every situation
Without any context or watching the video yet I can confidently say the answer is YES.
My cheap little Armscor M200 does just about the same thing... sure the quality isn't as nice but it does the trick
I don’t know about the FBI, but that’s the “heater” for me.
That's a really nice revolver! I am quite fond of Smith&Wesson revolvers, they're the best!
27, 28,, 19 and a 57. State troopers in MO used to carry a 28 for duty and 27 for dress. 38spl loads for duty and load to 357 in duress. Revolvers are nice for all occasions in my opinion. Thanks for hanging on Pard. Keep up the great work.
Awesome!
LOL I JUST GOT A KAMALA HARRIS AD ON THIS VIDEO 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Me too. They are astro turfing her hard.
She's one of the most unpleasant people to ever run, ad block has became mandatory.
The Dem Dream Team, Harris/Buttigieg, because they both svck.
There was a wrestler in the 80s named Kamala the Ugandan giant . Best part is his last name was Harris ,look it up lmao
Ya know, you can click on the ad and ask TH-cam to not do Her ads. Worked for me. I didn't give a specific reason, but I believe you can use there's a no ho's rule.
My very first revolver I bought brand new was a Dan Wesson 15-2 H….. it had an 8” barrel and it was a beauty…. Wish I still had…. 😊
They don't make mistakes. They do however pretend to make mistakes.
I read that in Dale Gribble's voice.
@@Yophillips3272you don't know who I am but I know where you live
My father bought a 19-1 in 1976 or there about and carried until re retired from being a deputy sheriff in 1989. I now have it and it is priceless to me. The action is still the smothers and cleanses revolver I have handled.
Ballistol and Hoppes No. 9. All I've used since 1975!
Hoppes No. 9 shouldn't be used on nickel plated guns btw....... says right on the bottle
I wish I still had my old 13-1. Had a 4 inch barrel. We didn't have speed loaders. We had dump pouches with loose rounds.
I'm a retired DEA Agent and I was in Basic Agents Class in January 1981. We were issued that firearm and were informed it was made for DEA by S&W. I was told that in agent's school but beyond that I have no official information. It was a fantastic firearm.
I was fortunate to serve with two legendary DEA Agents while guarding American Embassy Argentina, Max Pooley and Michael Levine.
What’s the biggest drug/criminal bust you guys took down? Sounds like fun career
@@MrChbnovember I worked in Baltimore for six years, Colombia, South America for two years and Miami, Florida for 20 of my total 28 years. Tons of fantastic experiences and cases. If you're considering a career with DEA look at their website.
@@WLeonardAthas Good God... six years in Balawmer vs. two years in Columbia.... that is the dictionary definition of earning "combat pay". Miami is it's own animal!
@@eskieman3948 Thank you sir for your kind comment! It was an honor and privilege to have been given the ability to make a difference!
They were looking to switch to autos after the Miami shootout in 1986, two guys were able to kill a couple agents and wound five more. They were up against a mini 14 and a collection of pistols.
FBI agent, Navy SEAL, Ranger- you left out astronaut, football player, race car driver, movie star...
International man of mystery, Superbowl quarterback...
Cowboy
Thanks for the show as always!!
I’m actually about 10 irl!! And I have a ruger 10/22 as my first gun.its so good!!!!! Keep up the good work!
U 2
@@johnpoole8321and a black bird was born ! :-)
The rounds used were the 158 grain lead semi wad cutter hollow point +p+
Good morning…Great gun 💯
I carried a .45 model 1911 in Vietnam, but now I carry a sub nose .357 when I am trout fishing in the woods/wilderness. Hopefully, I never need to use it.
Me encantan los revolveres clasicos❤ y más si son en 38/357🎉❤🎉❤🎉❤🎉
Back in 1982, I purchased my first semi-auto pistol, the S&W Model 59. I went to church with the Chief of Police and one day I asked him why virtually almost all law enforcement officers in the state carried .357 revolvers (mostly loaded with .38 Special). He said that it was because semi-autos were unreliable and revolvers didn’t jam. Like a lot of departments and agencies, after the 1986 FBI shootout in Miami, his department transitioned to semi-autos. Unlike the FBI however, they did not go to 10mm.
The FBI never makes mistakes.
The entire agency from top to bottom is absolutely perfect and above reproach in every respect. And then some. 😑
Nice try 😂
😵💫
🤥🤥🤥
😂 and we can Trust them and believe everything they say..( cough cough)
@pi-sx3mb sounds like the FBI is watching you. 😢
Thank you for the video! I've always enjoyed wheel guns including 6 shot rifles.
I think Clarice Starling had one in the early 90s when she took down "Buffalo Bill".
I believe Clarice starling was carrying a Ruger speed 6
That right there is probably one of the best concealed carry revolvers ever made. While I am not fortunate enough to have one in .357 mag I have a 64 in .38 special. Wonderful handguns.
As a carry gun, yes.
You are not going to get into extended fire fights, most incidents are over in the first few rounds. Unless you don’t know how to shoot, than spray and pray.
I carry a S&W 637 pocket carry or at times I will carry a Ruger GP100. I love my revolvers!
One of the reasons they went to a different weapon was that many females in various federal academies could not pull the trigger on the first round. This happened even after they were given a trigger pull test prior to being accepted into the academy. They were then offered a semi-auto so they could pass the firearms training program. I was issued a model 65 in the academy and loved it.
Inexperienced question, but why would the first pull be more difficult than others? Double action?
DEI strikes again.
Try a finger squeeze trainer, also train your 'weaker' hand ( I'm a southpaw) just in case.
So what you're saying is women were unfit for the job requirements, so they changed the requirements? Why does that sound familiar...
God, you guys are so fucking weird. Who fucking cares?
MY first carry gun was a S&W Model 15 in the Air Force. Later I converted to the Beretta 92. But my favorite (which I never got to carry) was the Colt 1911A1. I was a gun guy since I was about 11 years old. I shoot better than most cops with my Colt 32 (which I actually used one time for impromptu competition on Combat Range and I won it). Captain Fairburn of the Shanghai International Settlement police would be proud). I even do well on the range with my Taurus 441 44 Special (a favorite caliber of Delf "Jelly' Bryce).
But my dad, a retired USAF Air Policeman, Master Shooter, and Postal Security Service, worked with and occasionally trained with several Federal agencies, including the FBI as a firearms Instructor. He was there when they transitioned from variations of the K Frame 357 magnum (or 38 Spl) to the early automatics (10mm, 40 S&W, 9mm). He learned from watching them and other departments (as well as his own Air Force Police and Postal Personnel) that on average about 10 percent of all cops (Military, Federal, State, Local) are firearms guys. They shoot, train, maintain, and evolve in their firearms skills over their careers. About another 10 percent at least make the effort to get extra training and practice but do it mainly for street survival and aren't really into guns (the only ones they tend to own are their service and backup guns). The rest reluctanly carry guns because they have to as part of their job. They train and quality very very reluctantly (you should hear the whining on qualification day). But you'd think from listening to them afterwards that they're Bat Masterson or Jelly Bryce. They're more like Barney Fife when it comes to utilizing their guns in a street fight. I've seen far too many of the results from their minimalistic mindset towards weapons training. A paper target doesn't shoot back or move around while you're trying to stop them.
The FBI is trying to find a gun that requires minimal training, can be handled by any man or woman (no matter how big or small), and can turn a desk jockey into a gunfighter. It isn't going to happen and even FBI Instructors I've talked to over the years agree with me (and my dad's) sentiments. It's just a fact of life that most cops will never be that proficient with firearms, no matter if it's a Glock, Revolver, or a BB gun.
Very true statement i was also a gun guy at a very early age and became a street cop in a large southwest city for 33 years. I was a firearms instructor and range master and yes most cops are not gun guys but in our department there were more than 10 percent that were excellent shooters, i’d say like 30% and another 20% tried to improve, but we did have the other 50% that qualified once a year and some took many tries. I did notice Federal agency’s were much worse though, the city cops that worked the street with me stayed proficient the guys that had trouble qualifying got off the street.
@@craigthescott5074 You got lucky with a good department that prizes proficiency on the streets. I've seen several departments (mostly with an experienced police chief or well-versed training department like yours.) that handle gunfights well or at least don't have lots of "incidents" with accidental discharges (on the range or the street) or over aggressive use of guns in non-lethal situations. A friend worked as a weapons instructor (retired USAF Combat Arms like me) at a big city department on the East Coast. They had far too many incidents with bad gun handling on the streets (Union kept fighting additional firearms training hours). They got a new Police Chief (from another big city) and instead of improving training, he punished officers, reduced training budgets, and hired extra PR people to cover their asses. My friend left the department and moved back to his hometown. That department then had a even bigger series of shootings of civilians and officers. They fired the Police Chief and finally brought up one of their own (an ex-SWAT Commander) to take over. He called my friend to invite him back to run the Firearms Program, but my buddy enjoyed retirement more and stayed home. The new Chief went aggressive on firearms training (he got the Union to agree with the extra training time). Reduced incidents by over 80 percent and greatly improved community relations.
@@marks1638 Yep training and good equipment along with competent leadership makes all the difference.
I love ur videos
Thank You Hickok appreciate all you do 👍🇺🇸
So the secret service and the agencies aren’t culpable for the assassination attempt but TH-cam channels are!?!? So now all videos have to have a “historical” context?
Revolvers are definitely making a comeback, i’ve bought back three that I sold long ago. I carried one of these when I came out of the Police Academy in the 1980’s. I went to a nickel 586 357 later, great guns but put a ball of fire out at night. The nickel guns scared the indigenous street Chuds when you pulled it out cause it was shinny.
They should have carried Hi-Powers.
Education from a man who is fair and honest as they come! You are
One of those few people, who knows what he is talking about without all the
BS! There are very few, left in this Country who will tell you how it was and how it is Today!
People enjoy the Honesty and being to the point! May GOD watch over you and your family!
Have owned a couple. Wasn't happy with the fixed sights. However, as a defense weapon, it was more than efficient. However at the time, I was shooting bullseye. But, when I was carrying defensively, It was the thirteen in my holster. My job at the time required that I carried no more than a 38. When I left work, I sold it to my replacement and went on with my 'all about driving tacks' thing. Regret giving both of them up, now that I am older and wiser.
We are fortunate to be able to sample the knowledge this man has . Thank you sir for all the knowledge . You are appreciated .
Or are they enablers?
The 65 was my first issue weapon in 1983. I replaced it with a Colt Trooper MK3 later. Then a 1911 when I changed agencies. Carried that for 30 years.
Show me the man, I'll find you the crime.
Yep there are fed laws state laws county laws municipal laws*AND NOW BEUROCRACY laws. Hope you still hafto go thru em all by hand.😅
That .38 special bullet that they used is still probably the best defense round for .38 specials.
Federal and Remington still load it (i think that it's called the FBI load).
Apparently, the Remington is preferred, because it uses a little bit softer lead.
I found an ammo can at my grandparents house that is full of .38 special and .357 magnum from the 60's.
Most of the .38s are that FBI load.
I don't own a chronograph, but judging from recoil and the effect on various targets, that old stuff is pretty spicy compared to new ammo.
Secret Agent Man
Thanks! Now I have that theme song playing in my head.
We appreciate you!
Okay, let’s review some relevant and entirely factual history. In April, 1986, the Bureau suffered a profound tragedy, two SAs were killed, five more were wounded (most severely), in a brief firefight with two serious felons. This shootout has been chronicled and critiqued many times; accordingly, I will not review it here . . . except to note that: (a) most of the Agents were armed with S&W five and six shot revolvers, while (b) Platt’s and Matix’s (the murderers’) primary weapons were a Ruger Mini-14 (chambered for .223) and a 12 gauge shotgun.
Now I grew up with Smith revolvers, my father was an FBI Special Agent in the 1940’s and 1950’s, and the first handgun I ever owned - purchased when I returned from an 18 month overseas assignment in 1971 - was a five inch barrel, .357 magnum, P&R’ed, S&W M27. So, I am a long term admirer of top-quality wheelguns. HOWEVER, the principal fact resulting from the FBI’s 1986 Miami debacle was the Agents were horrendously outgunned . . . which resulted in seven SAs being murdered or wounded by two criminals.
The aftermath of the Miami fiasco included: (a) regular “street” SAs being armed with higher capacity autoloaders, instead of revolvers and (b) ammunition generally changing from .357 magnum and .38 Special +P rounds, to 10mm, followed by .40 S&W’s, and now by 9x19mm’s.
Revolvers remain an excellent defensive firearms for almost all lawful, civilian threats. But, LEOs’ - including FBI Agents - likely risks are frequently a LOT more dangerous than heading to the supermarket at noon for milk and eggs, or withdrawing cash from an ATM at 1600, or encountering a single burglar in one’s home at 0200. Firearms are tools and they should be selected for the probable missions; Special Agents REQUIRE top-tier semiautomatics and cartridges for today’s threats (as well as those of the last several decades).
Excellent post.
But according to the FBI, who stopped pursuing the highest performance ammo, all they need is ammo that "suffices" or is good enough, because their special agents miss most of the time, so they might as well miss cheap than miss expensive.
Funny enough, a guy with a .357 Mag revolver and shot placement ended the miami shootout while high capacity semi autos sprayed and ran dry with all misses except one (maybe two) less than effective shots.
And the take away everyone makes is “high capacity and more power is needed!”
Paul Harrell did a great video on the FBI shootout
@@classicgunstoday1972
I agree, but the plain certainty is many “street” SAs aren’t excellent marksmen. Ed Mireles was tough, determined, highly skilled, and - despite his really severe wounds - he stopped Matix and Platt with very accurate .357 magnum fire and especially with guts and tenacity.
BUT - and this is the key point- most FBI SAs (and for that matter, most LEOs of all types) aren’t Ed Mireles, Jim Cirillo, Mas Ayoob or Clint Smith. Rather, they carry their polymer-framed, striker-fired, high capacity 9x19mm’s, they don’t practice much, they are not firearms experts, and their “hit rates” in live-fire-exchanges near always are less than 20 (and often 10) percent.
Accordingly, senior law enforcement officials must arm their officers and agents realistically . . . and that currently means a G17, an M&P, and so forth. Please understand, I decry the lack of firearms proficiency and expertise that necessitates the foregoing decision, however, the facts speak for themselves.
Caught me with the headline.
Thanks for the Video!
Wow. I didn't know that the .357 was once standard issue. In fact, I'm not entirely sure how many guns were deemed official issue in the FBI's history. I wonder about why they changed so often as most of these sidearms are generally top quality.
I can tell you that the main reason the FBI and most police departments for that matter, moved away from revolvers was due to the famed Miami FBI shoot out with two bank robbers in the 1980s.
They stopped issuing .357 after this Miami shootout in which they couldn’t put the guy down with revolvers
@@lyleburlingame2276 I would have thought a 357 would put someone down and go through body armor easier than the .40
@@jackmurphy8696Problem with Miami Dade was that the lesson everyone took a away from that was that revolvers were insufficient for the task due to round capacity and slow reloads. The reality was that marksmanship was the real issue as the agents with semi autos also couldn't hit their targets.
Not saying that the switch to semi autos was the wrong thing to do, just that the driving factors influencing the change was flawed from the start.
@@Vagabond671flawed. The FB, ahahahahah! We know enough to know that's a fact.
Standard issue to Agents of the N.C. State Bureau Of Investigation in 1986. Smith and Wesson made a custom cut in front sight for a red insert. Still have mine and it still shoots great.
Even if FBI had these, they would've still just sat around with thumbs up their bums instead of doing their job.
My first duty weapon in 1988,model 65 ( stainless steel 13 ) also 3 inch, loved it