Cheapest Lithium Challenge: REDODO 100ah Mini
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today we look into the REDODO 100ah Mini LiFePO4 battery. This is the smallest, most power-dense battery I have seen so far. Let's see how it stands up to the others on the Leaderboard.
IN THIS VIDEO
[00:00] Intro
[01:14] The case for smaller cases
[02:40] Dimensions
[05:16] Disassembly
[06:17] Contents
[08:05] Charging
[09:33] Cell Balance
[12:00] High-Current Test
[16:47] What happens when you mix in Lead
[23:00] Discharging
[27:40] Final Thoughts
BACKGROUND:
I've developed a device that helps you add LiFePO4 batteries to your power system.
(www.emilyandclarksadventure.c...) Since I started selling them, I can't count how many people have asked me my opinion on what would be a good battery to buy. This series is my mission to find you the best, cheapest LiFePO4 battery out there right now.
THE BATTERY LEADERBOARD: Take a look at this link. It leads to a table of all the batteries we have reviewed, looking for that diamond in the rough. We'll keep adding to it.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Have questions or comments? Leave them below! We do our best to read and answer all comments on our channel.
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Known fact #1 - Every battery has internal resistance. #2 - When you put resistors in parallel, say 2 100ohm resistors, you get 50ohms.
Batteries are no different, many cells in parallel = lower resistance (in this case lower running resistance). Also has the effect of lowering the amount of drain per cell. Lower resistance and more stable output voltage is a good thing in many ways as you mentioned, it's less power converted into heat and more power to your devices. Together this has the impact of increasing efficiency and decreasing the strain per cell. This is good pack design but not uncommon, you see this design behavior in power tools as well. The multi cell (multi in parallel that is) packs generally have longer run time and deliver more power to the tools.
Thanks so much for doing this series! I am really learning a lot.
You are doing a great job and service here. Thanks for all the well presented info. Love the spread sheet. Thanks.
Great job like the recomendation
Brilliant review, great information about how these batteries are built and work. Certainly considering these for my upgrade.
Thanks for doing these reviews Clark. It's great to see someone else other than WP doing these battery break down test! He also normally talk about the BMS manufacture and how it rates. Again, great job and keep um coming!
Love your classes. Please keep it up. The both of you. I'll see you soon.
Thank you for doing these very informative videos.
You're welcome Jason
Your videos are always so informative, I really enjoy them. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Matt
Thanks again Clark. Well presented and at a good technical level for most people.
Thanks
I really like the leader board concept.
Amazing video. Such a thorough analysis and I learned a bunch of things incidentally just listening to you. I look forward to learning from your other videos!
Thanks Mike. We have hundreds of videos in our back catalog that you might find interesting.
Awesome! Nice work, love that bank manager gadget!
Thanks
Thank you again! Awesome little battery. I think I can fit 4 of these where I had 2 standard batteries before! Better than the Lossigy slim 200 that I had requested you to view :D ❤
I bought 2 of the Redodo mini's, and they are really cool. Insane how small and light they are. I was concerned about the pouch cells at first because everyone was saying to avoid them. But Renogy uses them in their batteries as well. Great video and your knowledge is great for us newbies. 👍
Thanks.
I did a bit of pouch vs prismatic research.
Seems pouches win out by a bit
Another good review Clark. It's really too bad it doesn't have low temp cutoff. Much like a boat my RV is short on space. Keep the good stuff coming.
Notice how STOUT the structural ‘improvements’ are in the cases, with the pouch form factor. For those with concerns about vulnerability via punctures, seeing the case molding should provide pretty Solid peace of mind ☺️
Great review 👍
Thanks
Great review again Clark. Great battery find as well. Competition in lithium batteries is heating up you might say. Seems like the cold charge/use protection can't be expensive to add, surprised its not there. (Not that I'd need it, we winterize our boats long before it gets to freezing temps.)
Well the BMS with that feature is a bit more expensive and the one I saw was a bit thicker.
As you say we all don't need every feature and it's right for them to offer what the customers buy.
Top stuff , breaking down the tech stuff for the non technical amongst us aka me haha !
Congrats Clark, well done. 50yr Veteran of the marine industry here. Worked with Dave Smead @ Ample Power in the 90s, Taught, designed, built complex mobile AC and DC power systems. Seems the time has finally come where we can have great quantities of energy storage in a small space. Simple systems, voltage stability, high and low amp loads with few things to remember or go wrong. Hope to be using a Bank Manager in the near future.
My concerns are about fires in all of the new batteries. Andy on the Off Grid Garage channel has just reviewed a new Seplos Polo battery with fire suppression built into the case.
Good luck with the product and future endeavors.
The first book I bought on this subject was "living on 12v with ample power". I still recommend it.
I really think LiFePO4 is safe from thermal runaway. It's not the same as the other li-ion chemistries which I won't have on the boat in any real size.
I don't want my big decision mid ocean to be, do I burn or do I drown!
I really don't think internal fire suppression is of practical importance for LiFePO4.
The time is now.
Clark thank you for being so thorough, I don’t have a boat but a sprinter RV and am contemplating lithium I’m wondering if the Redodo would be good for it ? You are so knowledgeable and appreciate your feedback, I have an older Winnebago Era and was wondering if your product that you have would be good to add and where would I put it in the RV ? Directly off the battery? Or somewhere else? Or do I even need it ? Thanks again I’m really enjoying your videos and looking forward to watching some of your older ones PS I grew up with a smaller 14 ft crownline waterskiing so I do have a love for boats and the water , God bless you guys , Brian
I think any lithium battery needs to be charged carefully and basically this is the only game in town for that.
Especially if you have a camper since you can't easily replace the alternator regulator and the converter/charger. They only know how to charge lead but that's fine with the BankManager.
We use one in our truck camper. You can see it briefly in this video.
th-cam.com/video/_M0OiAi5rEM/w-d-xo.html
www.emilyandclarksadventure.com/bbms
Good battery. This is what I need for my O’Day 20. I am currently using a Renogy 100AH deep cycle lead acid, it’s heavy! What Flir camera do you use?
Flit one pro
Hi! Guys, I’m Jeff. I commented a couple weeks ago requesting info about a crossing from BVI across PR, DR to Bahamas. Anyways, I turned up in Luperon last week and made the captains table. Wanted to make your acquaintance and was just setting across the table and kitty corner to you (your right side). You made a quick exit and I didn’t see you again. Just thought I’d say hi!
Sure say hi.
I guess I was talking with Andra all night.
Pouch as you observe are more delicate and have less thermal runaway isolation than prismatic or cylinder BUT with LiFEPO thermal runaway is way less of an issue - pouch lipo or other more thermally unstable lion are scary (see boeing 787 issues). I tend to agree with you that this is a great form factor but understand other viewers concerns.
Another great review Clark. Thanks.
I went to their web site using your affiliate link and ran into a popup window that wanted me to "spin the wheel" for a discount. My email address was rejected and I could not get thhe pop up to go away.
I was able to read the page about this battery and was concered when I found a reference to a feature called an "exhaust hole" to facilitate cooling
In one of your previous battery review videos you made a good point about a USB port providing an entry point for humid marine air. Does the exhaust port on this battery have the same problem?
I didn't notice a hole. I'll look again.
We have this on our Amazon store. Sorry about their site
I love this series. I am waiting til you do them all before I hire you to make a decision.
It would be neat if you could do a so called "elite" battery also for comparison. Like a Dakota or a battle born. Doubt that's possible but would be informative. You usually get what you pay for but maybe not with these new batteries
I do have a pair of Battleborns....?
@EmilyAndClark maybe you could do a fundraiser where all us interested in the comparison after you get through the inexpensive ones chip in a 10 spot or whatever to pay for the costs associated with tearing a battle born apart. Just a thought
Not a bad idea.
Patreon drive. Get a bunch of "buy is a beer" $5 patrons?
@@EmilyAndClark just a thought. You could mention the idea in one of the videos and see if there would be a good return...
It's nice that you all respond to folks. That's special and one of the reasons I keep liking and sharing.
Thanks
You're welcome
Another fantastic video. Love to geek out on all the detail. I've heard that the Prizmatic Cells are superior to the Pouch cells and the premium LiFePO4 makers utilize the Prizmatic Cells. Specifically, they cite 7000 cycles at 80% DOD on average. I have no way to verify that. Whats your take Clark?
Thx again for great video content! Edit: forgot to mention. They have a 10-year warranty (Prorated) I think 3 years is mostly replacement.
I did a bit of google research and it seemed the other way. Several references liked the pouches better.
Would make sense in that they could have better thermals.
When looking into this it's important that you check the source. If it's from a battery maker it's likely to support what they sell.
Mostly I think it comes down to the chemistry. So if one package was 5% better does it really matter when they are all 100% better then lead for those features.
It just has to be good enough. I have a very grey beard. I'm betting with proper charging they will outlast my need for them.
@@EmilyAndClark Thanks! You are probably right.
@@EmilyAndClark After digging (a little) deeper on the subject this week I've seen some consistency in messaging from the manufacturers. Prismatic vs Pouch vs Cylindrical. Some agreement:
Pouch cells have the best density and flexibility in design options. They are the lightest. They do require a small compression. Cheaper for smaller applications. Safety-wise: They are easier to damage via puncture.
Prismatic are great for larger capacities. They are more stable and can be stacked. Price can be OK if manufactured at scale ie: automotive cells. Safety-wise: One drawback is that they can't dissipate heat as well as other types of cells.
Cylindrical cells: have the advantage of 75 years of optimization and standardized mass production methods to get the most out of the form factor. However, they are the least compact and are also heavy. Safety: They are probably the safest in terms of heat dissipation and also their inherent spacing between the cells lowers the chance of thermal runaway.
I found this interesting:
www.addionics.com/post/pouch-cylindrical-or-prismatic-which-battery-format-will-rule-the-market
www.takomabattery.com/a-detailed-comparison-of-prismatic-vs-pouch-cells/
Hey I noticed that you have an Amazon propane hot water heater. I have been thinking about buying one have you done a review on it and if not could you? They seem pretty inexpensive and efficient
Last week's video goes into it a bit.
I just found your channel, the videos are awesome and very informative. Would it be safe to mount the REDODO 100ah Mini or any LiFePO4 battery on its side inside a large rolling tool box? I am planning to build a portable solar generator in a Ridgid rolling tool box and would like to mount the battery on its side. I will include fans to insure that the battery does not overheat.
Seems like a fine plan. I really doubt you will need the cooling. Especially with a metal tool box. That thing is a huge heat sink
But keep an eye on the mppt. They do make doom heat
Thank you! I am using the Ridgid high-impact resin (not metal) rolling case. I am planning to install 2 - 120mm 12 volt fans to provide ventilation and I will keep an eye on the MPPT Temperature. Thank you for this great advise.
@@EmilyAndClark
Great tear down video. Quick questions... What gauge wire is Redodo using inside the battery? Planing on using your link to buy 4 to run in parallel what size gauge wire should I use to connect them in parallel? My inverter is a renogy 2000W.
I think I report that in the video.
Wire gauge is a personal choice and is based on the voltage drop you accept. ELECTRICITY ON BOATS - Clark's Full Masterclass: th-cam.com/play/PLsT7_jPsZM5ogT6or244F49-Gy7pYFV7V.html
Thank you so much for the Masterclass list. I will begin watching. Yes you did answer my question in your video sorry I missed it getting a cup of coffee but saw it on the rewatch. I'm new to your channel and glad TH-cam recommend it.I am subscribing now and will be sharing it to friends and family. 😀@@EmilyAndClark
Thanks
The inverter can handle 2000 watts only shortly for start up etc, but the continues rate is about 1,000 watt. I assumed that it is for a 12 volt system.
2000 watts takes 166 amps .
A 1/0 wire will handle 150 amps , but remember that the continues load is lower so that wire is ok for the high short timed load . Or you can double up with two #4 wires instead one 1/0 wire.
I’m just looking for a small battery to power out induction stove and convection oven (not at the same time) but that’s all I need power for… would you suggest… or do you need dimensions on each items power output …
We don't do consultation here. You have to research that yourself or join our Patreon at the "Dream Believers" tier.
@@EmilyAndClark I already did that love… I was suggesting after the battle of the batteries which you’re doing … you might want to do a interest of induction cooking with lithium…
I have viewed discussion about employing a bus for smaller (4) battery banks, in the form of a copper bar, to enhance ‘balance’, especially in parallel configuration. Do you have an opinion on this ?
Thank you both for your content !
More copper more better!
More copper more better!
Still, do the diagonal thing I mention in this video. It's even more important.
th-cam.com/video/qTwJDrdXAeQ/w-d-xo.html
And I hope you found the leaderboard
Audio needs to volume up. At the highest volume it should be the half way volume so many videos are this way when they are so educational
Must admit Clark a 2nd Bank of 6 of these probably makes more sense to have a night time Switchover to, than getting a Lifepo4 Batteries Power Station, or these connected to just an as it comes Bluetti with its one Battery ? Hmm. Great Review. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍✨️✨️✨️
eta. being disabled the base Bluetti 300 looks to be physically Manageable for me too. so with its one battery charged up, while at Anchor in the evenings, it can run illumination in the Cockpit, along with a Bug Zapper. then just take below and reconnect to that 2nd Bank. Worth a try I think. Bob. 👍
I think you would be best served with a built in Li augmenting your lead and a BankManager.
Use an extension cord to get power in the cockpit.
If you are going to go with a power station I'd avoid the bluetti. A patron had a problem with one and got 0 customer support. Better to buy the other one we reviewed last fall. Their new offerings fix my only complaint. Basically the same thing at the same price.
@@EmilyAndClark Good thought Clark Thanks, was thinking it would give a handy backup 3kw inverter too, but an extra spare inverter would be cheaper too. I do like backups of backups lol. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍✨️✨️✨️
Getting it all in one box always means when one part fails you throw it all away.
Hate that!
@@EmilyAndClark That's why I built Custom Desktop Computers and not Laptops Clark . Bob. 👍🤣
Yep
Clark one of the companies I bought a lithium battery from recommends not mixing manufacturers why? And what is the risk of mixing vendors?
One is likely to charge faster than the other and suffer later.
Of course I think they all suffer being charged to a voltage.
If you want a mixed Li collection either type, age, or you want more than 4 in parallel you can do that with multiple BankManagers. One per similar group.
@@EmilyAndClark This isn't correct. As long as its the same chemistry (LiFePO4) and the internal series cell count is the same (which it will be for at least 12V and 24V LFP batteries... 4s and 8s), then you can mix manufacturers, ages, and different capacities in parallel. It won't be completely ideal, but it also won't hurt anything.
All that will happen is that a small SOC offset will develop between the mismatched batteries, but otherwise they will still roughly current-share according to their capacities through most of the SOC curve.
There are only two caveats. First is that charge and discharge amperages have to be limited to the capabilities of the worst battery in the set (obviously). So while you could parallel a 200Ah battery with a 50Ah battery, it would only make sense if you charge and discharge below 50A.
Secondly, additional attention to fusing is required if paralleling beyond a battery's specification. The ONLY reason manufacturers have a parallel limit specification is that the BMS in one battery has to be able to shutoff in the face of an internal short that causes all the other batteries to discharge into it. That is the only reason, and you can solve that with a simple fuse. So, for example, pairing a 200Ah battery and a 50Ah battery would work just fine but probably exceed the 50Ah battery's parallel rating, so an additional fuse would be needed between the two. Paralleling two 200Ah batteries with, say, four 50Ah batteries would require a fuse between the four 50Ah batteries and the two 200Ah batteries.
You can also prioritize operation based on how you wire the main busses. For example, if you have two 200Ah batteries and four 50Ah batteries, you probably want the main positive and main negative hanging off the 200Ah batteries only, then have a fuse between that block and your block of four 50Ah batteries. Or alternatively, cable the two blocks of batteries separately to a common main bus. That way the required fuse on the four 50Ah batteries does not interfere with the two 200Ah batteries.
The reason paralleling mismatched capacities, age, and vendors works is that even though there might be slight variations in resting voltage vs SOC during charging and discharging, the voltage curve is so flat that the voltage drop from the current will still cause the batteries to roughly current share. A small SOC offset between the battery groups will develop, but it will be limited (less than 10% SOC). That's the only real fallout.
--
Normally with LiFePO4 nobody really cares a whole lot about wear rates from daily cycling, because calendar aging of the battery will completely trump wear-based aging. Particularly in a sailboat application where you are not cycling 80% of the SOC range each day. And the more batteries you have in parallel, the smaller the daily cycling range will be.
(This is also, incidentally, why it is silly to limit the charge target. Always have the charge target set to at least 3.55V/cell (14.2V), and hold the target for 1-2 hours before dropping to float. Otherwise the BMS inside the batteries won't be able to balance the cells properly. Balancing has to happen in the exponential part of the curve. Trying to balance LFP cells before that point actually UNBALANCES the cells instead of balances them due to manufacturing variations between cells. People who do not have proper charge targets set for their LFP batteries, thinking that they are saving wear on the batteries, wind up wearing their batteries out FASTER rather then slower because the batteries go out of balance over the course of a few months).
-Matt
Please do a review on sundegy 12V 100Ah LiFePO4 Battery
The best way to make that happen is, as a potential customer, to ask them to ask me.
Your dollars hold a lot of power!
would you mix a regular redodo 100A with the Mini you have reviewed here?
I don't think I would.
I wish I would have got these batteries instead of the Timeusb 100ah batteries. The timeusb battery is too big for the tool box I got to build a solar generator. The Redodo 100ah mini I could have got 3 batteries in the tool box and have 300ah.
Clark, wrt your leaderboard spreadsheet... what is the better rating, "great" or "excellent"? Thanks for your time. :¬) Webhead USA
Good question.
Emily is adding a scale as I type
I would like to see you test a AGM 100ah battery in the same manner as your doing here, except not pulling it apart. Price per amp hour compared to lithium ect. Cheers Shane
Apples and oranges.
Life cycles are so much lower with the lead and you really don't want to fully discharge them. Like 50% max.
But Maybe a theoretical test??? That's an idea.
100ah Lead is effectively 50ah of usable energy. Going below that will shorten the life dramatically. Lead acid can be charged @500x
A 60ah LiFePO4 would be roughly the same energy output as a Lead Acid since 95% of a lithium battery is usable AND with a constant discharge curve until the end. Charge cycles are 2000-5000x in which time you would have replaced the Lead 2-3x Also of course 1/2 the weight size.
Hi Clark. Great insights again. Are Any of these Lifepo4 Battery Manufacturers giving any indications of expected Battery Service Life, if Charging amps, voltages as specified by the Manufacturer, and generally good compliant Treatment, such as onlybcharge to 85% Capacity and Discharge limit is to no less than 50% Capacity is rigidly stuck to ? I might get a Lifepo4 batteries Power station, just to cover the hours of Darkness, to reduce or eliminate drain from the Housebank AGM's just see see how long I can make the
Lifepo4 batteries last, because right now I'm feeling an over 10 years Lifepo4 batteries Service Life may well be Unobtainable, and Service Cost per year mat turn out to be really high. It would be nice to have some Lifepo4 Manufacturers provide some realistic Service Life Projection figures tbh. Best Wishes. Bob. 👍✨️✨️✨️
To start with, we are taking China here. No specification is to ever be trusted! It sucks but it's the case. If they aren't being watched by guys like me to call them in a lie they will lie. And I just can't do lifecycle tests.
So we must go to the chemistry. Treated perfectly with a full discharge the magic number should be around 4000 cycles. More if you draw shorter cycles. I really think it's total life Ah that counts not the size of the cycle as long as you stay well out of the ends (hockey stick). Don't overcharge them or under charge them. Charging to full (not to BMS cutout) is important to save battery from memory. You simply can't charge "to a voltage" as damage can happen as low as 13.48v.
That said I feel strongly that the way to get the life out of them we want is with my BankManager. That is what it's designed for and it's the only option that charges LiFePO4 the way the chemistry says it should be charged.
I feel we will be getting that 10 year number out of our li. More maybe.
@@EmilyAndClark That sounds very Promising Clark as I feel that for properly well Treated Batteries a 10 year Service Life needs to be a benchmark Minimum Period. I like the sound of your Bank Manager by the way, now all I need is the Sailboat to put it all on. Best Wishes. Bob. 🤣
Do they make an external thermal shut off?
Yes you could do this with the charge controller but you'd have to have this feature in all charge controllers that might charge when cold
Hey Clark, I got your message on Facebook. We really appreciate your willingness to review our 200ah batteries. However, I'm just wondering how I can reach you more effectively?
Read the message I sent you on Facebook.
Read the whole message, it ends with my email address.
You aren't starting well on your "company" communication rating.
Could this mini battery be used for a trolling motor? Thanks
Sure
It would be nice to carry
Thanks
Clark If I add 2 Lithium 100ah batteries to my 2 Group 31 batteries, where would I store the Lithium?
With a BankManager I assume ...
Most anywhere. They are lighter and don't vent gasses unless they totally die a horrible death so any place you have tends to work.
Short wire runs should be your main concern.
@EmilyAndClark My current setup is 1 starter battery and 2 Group 31 batteries located under a berth that runs under the starboard side of the cockpit. No more room there.
Clark asked me where I lived because he wanted to recommend an installer. However, Emily replied. Would you please tell him I live in Saint Augustine FL?
A friend is going to FL (I don't know where yet) to do an install of BankManagers in a fleet of Duffy's.
Write me at emilyandclarksadventure@gmail.com if you'd like me to connect you.
What's up with the black electrical tape? The adhesive will degrade over time.
What black electrical tape?
200 AH seems to be the sweet spot for Lithium installation. Do you think 1 200 AH is any better than 2 100 AH?
Yes. Getting it under as few BMSs as possible. But I don't think 2 in parallel isn't much of an issue. Over 4 is too much, likely.
I have the 200amp Pro version at 2992wh. After 6 months, I have to say, it's out performed my expectation.
I was going to install mine in Temptress but a friend really needed it.
Does anyone make a 200ah mini? So far all I have seen is the 100ah batteries. I think the 200ah would be a real game changer.
I don't know of one but I have a 400ah coming with 2.3 w/in³
@@EmilyAndClarkthat would work. Looking forward to the video.
Where is the affiliate link for this item?
Woops.
Thanks. Emily is on it. It will be on the leader board in a few minutes.
If you are anxious to buy it is in our Amazon store and there is a link to that in the description.
Did you really say you have only 200AH of battery power on board or did I misunderstand? How much solar?
Yep it's enough to get us through the night then we use the lead if we have a cloudy period. And we use AC! A little lingoes a long way.
Since I have batteries coming in all be adding a bunch, why not, right?
Solar is about 900w, currently adding 200 more for cloudy times and mostly because "battery review videos" eat a lot of power!
Wow. I’ve been playing with the idea of installing a 5k btu window air conditioner in my vberth anchor locker access door. 450 watts. I have central air but 16k btu energy hog.
FYI, I work at Defender and if I can ever help just ask.
That's a lot of power. I use this AC th-cam.com/video/xF113aUlZgo/w-d-xo.html
If you know someone who has product influence. I think I'm about ready to sell BankManagers in bigger quantities.
But you are limited to four (400 amp @12v) batteries.
Kinda.
If you want that much it's better to go with more ah in a case,, but the density of these is so great...
If you bought two BankManagers you could have one control each bank of 4 (or so) and I believe all would be well. Tests running now.
If someone decided to go beyond the manufacturers 4 battery limit they should use really big wires between the batteries so they all see as close to the same voltage.
Cheapest? That sounds like my kind of lithium battery.
I want prismatic cells, not pouch cells...Ya, not a fan of the pouch cells, would never buy that...But, to each his own...
Why?
@@EmilyAndClark I had a messed up pouch cell in a solar generator, once bitten, twice shy...
Those cells are way out of balance.
But close enough the battery put out 103ah
i`m worried by electric cars spontaneously battery combustion and the difficulty in putting out the fire to not go near this product just yet
Look into it a bit more and you might feel better about it. They use a really different li-ion chemistry. I will never promote anything for a boat that uses the wrong chemistry.
LiFePO4 is really hard to get into thermal runaway. I truly don't think you could do it if you tried.
I won't have li-ion aboard my boat larger than my DeWalt drill. And I only charge that while I watch it.
I won't put us in a situation where we need to decide if we burn or drown!
Pouch Cells are a no go for me, sad to see Redodo use these lower quality cells.
Seems to be a difference of opinion on this. Two camp
pouch cell are not good for battery storage setup - pouch cell have Much shorter life span than other LFP battery designs -
cell balance numbers were not that good but could be needs a few more cycles - u should show another test with more cycles
Can you direct me to any study about the pouch cell life cycle comparison. I'd really like to read up on this.
Everything I found claims longer life for pouch cells